Pete Thamel | SEC & Big Ten Realignment | CFP's Biggest Questions

Summary

Podcast Summary: "See Ball Get Ball with David Pollack"

Episode: Pete Thamel | SEC & Big Ten Realignment | CFP's Biggest Questions
Release Date: June 19, 2025
Host: David Pollack
Guest: Pete Thamel

---

Introduction

In this episode of See Ball Get Ball, host David Pollack collaborates with co-host Brent Rollins to delve deep into the evolving landscape of college football. The primary focus revolves around conference realignments, the future of the College Football Playoff (CFP) system, and critical analyses of top-tier teams. The episode culminates with an insightful interview featuring renowned college football insider, Pete Thamel.

---

College Football Playoff Format Discussions

Expanding the CFP:
David Pollack and Brent Rollins discuss recent developments highlighted in a Tweet by Brett McMurphy regarding the CFP's decision to "start over" in determining the 2026 playoff format (02:24). The debate centers on the balance between at-large bids versus automatic qualifiers, with Pollack expressing skepticism about reaching a consensus due to unequal power dynamics between major conferences.

Potential 16-Team Format:
Pollack suggests the possibility of expanding the CFP to 16 teams, stating, "I just don't think they're going to come to some agreement while the powers are not equally divvied up right now" (02:35). He anticipates that major conferences like the SEC and Big Ten may dominate future decisions, making it challenging to achieve a fair and balanced system.

---

Team-Specific Analyses

Ohio State:
Pollack emphasizes Ohio State's consistent quarterback performance but raises concerns about the defense's adaptation under a new defensive coordinator. He notes, "What does this defense look more like it did a couple years ago... Or does it look like somewhere in the middle or closer to last year" (07:40).

Notre Dame:
Brent highlights Notre Dame's challenging schedule, questioning their ability to navigate tougher opponents compared to last year. Pollack concurs, stressing the importance of quarterback performance under pressure (09:28).

Texas Longhorns:
The discussion shifts to Texas, where Pollack identifies the offensive line as the critical area needing improvement. He states, "the offensive line allowed them to run the football and make the game easy" (12:04).

Penn State:
Pollack and Brent laud Penn State's strong offensive line and running back tandem but question their ability to excel in big games. Pollack remains bullish, believing Penn State is "a national championship type team" ready to break through (15:24).

Georgia:
The conversation turns to Georgia, with Pollack focusing on the defensive line's potential impact. He remarks, "the defensive line who becomes a true difference maker" (15:52).

Arizona State:
Brent and Pollack discuss Arizona State's robust team and uncertain running game post the departure of a key running back. Pollack highlights the importance of the running game alongside a strong offensive line (18:31).

Oregon:
The uncertainty surrounding Oregon's quarterback performance is a focal point. Pollack expresses concerns about the readiness of their new quarterback to meet high expectations (20:01).

Boise State:
Boise State is portrayed as a team with limited room for error in maintaining their playoff position. Pollack emphasizes the challenge of replacing a star running back to sustain their competitiveness (21:36).

Indiana:
Pollack and Brent analyze Indiana's offensive line, noting that while the defense remains solid, sustaining last year's success will require effective rebuilding and maintaining recruitment through the transfer portal (25:04).

SMU:
The discussion on SMU highlights their quarterback situation and defensive line's importance. Pollack underscores the necessity of replacing key defensive players to maintain their competitive edge (27:09).

Clemson:
Clemson's defensive prowess is scrutinized, with Pollack pointing out the need for improvements in the running game and offensive line. He remarks on the stability of their defense but identifies offensive concerns (28:12).

---

Conference Realignment Insights

Pete Thamel provides a comprehensive overview of the ongoing conference realignment, focusing on the Pac-12's efforts to rebuild by adding new members like Texas State and Louisiana Tech. He explains the ripple effects these additions may have on other conferences, emphasizing the complexity and interdependence of these moves (38:17).

---

NIL and House Settlement Impacts

House Settlement Overview:
Thamel discusses the recent NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) settlement, highlighting its significance in providing direct payments to athletes. He describes it as a positive step, enabling athletes to receive financial compensation for their performance and brand (40:17).

Challenges and Enforcement:
Despite the settlement, Thamel acknowledges the challenges in enforcement and the potential for continued inequities among schools with varying financial capabilities. He expresses concern over powerful brands retaining advantages over smaller programs, complicating fair distribution of NIL benefits (42:27).

---

Interview with Pete Thamel

Pete Thamel’s Background:

Pete Thamel shares his journey from a sports-loving kid in Massachusetts to becoming a renowned college football insider. He credits his education at Syracuse University and his relentless dedication to covering college football for his success (33:56).

Realignment and Playoff Changes:

Thamel elaborates on the expected CFP expansion to 16 teams and the complexities involved in determining strength of schedule and contextualizing wins and losses. He anticipates significant controversy as the committee navigates these decisions (50:38).

Most Intriguing Storyline:

Thamel is most excited about Penn State's potential breakthrough, citing their strong offensive line and running back tandem as key factors that could propel them to a national championship. He emphasizes the importance of handling pressure and refining team identity early in the season (54:44).

Anecdotes and Behind-the-Scenes Stories:

Thamel shares humorous and chaotic stories from his career, illustrating the unpredictable nature of college football journalism. From missing personal events due to breaking news to managing unforeseen emergencies, he highlights the relentless pace of his profession (58:15).

---

Conclusions

David Pollack and Brent Rollins, with insights from Pete Thamel, provide a thorough examination of the current and future state of college football. From playoff expansions and conference realignments to individual team analyses and the impact of NIL settlements, the episode offers valuable perspectives for enthusiasts looking to understand the intricate dynamics shaping the sport. Thamel's expertise adds depth to the discussion, making this episode a must-listen for those seeking an informed take on college football's evolving landscape.

---

Notable Quotes:

• David Pollack: "I think it’s start over because we’re going to start over again and again." (02:35)

• Brent Rollins: "Why move on? Change happens." (06:52)

• Pete Thamel: "Chaos is job security. And if there’s one thing college athletics does not lack, it’s chaos." (60:18)

• Pete Thamel: "The notion of Georgia paying you when you were there would have been, like, blown your mind, right?" (41:30)

---

This summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions, insights, and memorable moments for listeners and those seeking an overview.

Transcript

[David Pollack]

What's up everybody? David Pollack here of C Ball Get Ball podcast. I hope you like it, man. Be sure to follow the show Wherever you subscribe, YouTube or any of your other platforms.

[Brent Rollins]

The live button is.

[David Pollack]

There we go. Welcome everybody in to Seaball. Get Ball. We got a cool episode today. We'll catch up with Pete Thammel at the end and talk all things college football. Pizza. Pizza.

[Pete Thamel]

Stud.

[David Pollack]

He's, he was one of the most interesting characters I was around with game day and just like his job and what he was asked to do on a consistent level like Brent, Brent Rollins joins me every week. I'm David Pollock. You know, he's just asked to do a lot and sacrifice a lot and that phone is glued to him. And I did, I caught up with him earlier because you were, you were busy. But I really, my number one question that I did not ask him that I really regret is I wanted to know how long, how many hours is his screen time a day? Because I bet it's absolutely ridiculous. I'm gonna text him right now while you talk to see if I can get an answer to that question.

[Brent Rollins]

Okay. I, I did get a chance to listen to the interview and one of the just sort of couple cool things to me were and first off, one of these days my, my day job will not be in the way of me joining on all these things. But he's a Syracuse alum. I didn't realize that like everyone in.

[David Pollack]

The medium is a Syracuse alum. By the way, the journalism and you'll.

[Brent Rollins]

Be good like the famous alumni like Tirico Costas, like all these big time sports journalist guys come out of Syracuse. I thought he was, it was funny how he put the ins ncaa, but you'll get into that and some other things that he talked about and really his, his most intriguing story for this college football season we're going to kind of get into here in a little bit is the same thing that I actually had written down for what, what we're going to talk about tonight. But first off, you had a Tweet from Brett McMurphy Late last, I think it was last night or yesterday evening that the conference commissioners have decided to quote, start over on determining the 2026 College Football Playoff format because of the disagreement in a way per se, I, I, this is basically an at large more at large versus more automatic qualifier issue. And there's going to be a lot of fisticuffs and fighting over that and especially with the two big conferences that run that world.

[David Pollack]

I'm about to say it's not.

[Brent Rollins]

What do you think it all is?

[David Pollack]

It's. It's start over because we're going to start over again and again. Because if I'm the SEC in the Big ten, I have zero reason to make a deal. I don't. I'm not going to acquiesce to anything you want, because I'm gonna get everything I want next year. You know what I'm saying? Like, Brett, I mean, they have. It's like owning a stock and it's like, you know what? Like right Now I'm a 25 shareholder of the stock. And. And you're 25. And you're 25. And YOU'RE 25. I think we should sell it now. Like, but. But next year I'm gonna be a 50 owner. What. What are you gonna do? You're gonna hold the stock and sell it for 50%. So I just. I don't think. I just don't think they're going to come to some agreement while the powers are not equally divvied up right now. Because I think it's going to change.

[Brent Rollins]

By the way, that's a lot of words for stuff that's literally been going back and forth for months.

[David Pollack]

Yeah.

[Brent Rollins]

Not to hate on the tweet, but.

[David Pollack]

But still have to say nothing. I mean, deadline for finalizing is. Is December. Okay, great. Awesome.

[Brent Rollins]

Okay, so our viewer here, Mr. William McBroom. Great comment. Why not actually listen to the fans for once and not add more teams to devalue the regular season even more. So I had a thought today and I want to see if you. You are in on this thought and if you want, want to join it. So for those that don't know my day job, I. I'm in academia. The PhD in my Twitter account is actually real. I am a not real doctor kind of doctor, continuously made fun of by many, including my spouse.

[David Pollack]

Your wife more than anybody. She says, just make sure everybody knows you're not a real doctor.

[Brent Rollins]

Not a real doctor. So. But in my world, I do research and I thought, let's do some research on this. I need to put together a survey and we'll tweet it out and like a Google form kind of thing. And anyone and everyone with the Gmail address can fill out the survey and say, hey, what do you as a fan want? And then let it run for a while and go through the results.

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah.

[Brent Rollins]

What do you think? Sound good? Sounds something like. That you would want to see.

[David Pollack]

Well, it's just like anything else. It's it's always interesting to me that when we have, when we all have comments because everybody's got an. Everybody's got an opinion on everything. Nil, all this stuff, but very few people have an opinion to actually make it better or to, to solute, to solve it. Very few people. So I think we all talk about it like, a lot, like, this is a problem. This is a problem. Like, and that's why I always want, you know, I want to be the people that answer those questions. That's our job. Like, our job is to give you solutions. And that's what we're trying to do consistently. So I think it'd be good. I think we. I don't know how many good ones we'd have because I could give you options.

[Brent Rollins]

Hey, would you want 12, 14 or 16? Because it's not going less than 12, that's for sure.

[David Pollack]

Yeah, I can't imagine why at this point, just most people aren't going to go ahead and say 16. I mean, I think that would be the overwhelming favorite because it's more access. And more access means more teams. And so I think it's good for your team to, to have more access to something. So I think that would be the consensus. Now, a couple years ago to go to four from two was not everybody was on board. And I'll be honest, I didn't love it. I now I love college football and I'll embrace whatever comes, but I think change is hard. Just like with Nil, just like with all this stuff. Whenever you, whenever you change something that I love, that I follow, that is so awesome. It takes me a second to get used to it now. Now some people handle change better than others. I don't love change. So the system was so fun and so I thought it was so great because I covered it for so many years. I didn't want to change it, but now I like more. And I would be on favor for 16 because last year I think you had a gripe that there was a few more teams that were really good. Now I don't know that every year is going to be like that. Not every year is going to have 14 competitive teams. Sometimes we might have seven and we're like, we could cut this off at seven, but I'd rather have the extra.

[Brent Rollins]

Well, change happens. Why move on? Speaking of that, before we get to them, we're going to look at the College football playoff teams from a year ago. And the biggest question that surrounds or that you look at from a football or even maybe not Necessarily football specific question.

[David Pollack]

So are you saying one. You get one question like the most important pressing need. Okay.

[Brent Rollins]

Biggest thing that to me that you have to answer. And like for me like some of them it's like D line, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. So you know we had the, we start with the champs, Ohio State, which what is the biggest question for you heading into this season for the Buckeyes?

[David Pollack]

Well, I think most people are going to lean into quarterback, but I don't because I, I know what Ohio State is in the quarterback room always like it's just always consistency. I know it's great coaching. So I don't doubt the Ohio State offense. I think to me it's the defense. You got a new dc, you got a ton of new players. Like what does this defense look more like it did a couple years ago when it was the big time deficiency of the team before they won the national championship. Or does it look like somewhere in the middle or closer to last year. But I mean I could go down the list of so many names with JTT and Sawyer and all these guys. I mean just so many guys that had been there, done that, stayed for this and had experience. Had experience that I trusted in that moment.

[Brent Rollins]

So that's what I would say minus coaching. And it's both sides of the football. You have brand new coach and needless like Matt Patricia as you're. As you're like that's one where not many love that potentially. So we'll see but him as a defensive coach, who knows we'll see versus head coach Lions fans very much. Not, not a fan of him as head coach. So yeah, we actually went both different ways and I didn't think QB either. Now the only thing if you were going qb, I would say QB under pressure, big game like and you can't see that until that you get to those points. I mean you're going to see it in week one, week one. But certain points in their schedule, other points, they're going to put up ridiculous numbers and beat people by 30 and.

[David Pollack]

Score 50 points and you go all right, throw it to four. Yeah, just here's the play gun right shift, you know, four verts. Throw it to four. Thank you.

[Brent Rollins]

Throw it to four. When in doubt. Notre Dame, second team. I'll go first on this one since you went first on Ohio State.

[David Pollack]

All right.

[Brent Rollins]

Their schedule, they actually have to go play places at some teams this year. When like you look at last year, they had the opener against A M, but that's the first game like you're, you're sort of as prepared for that, you're healthy, that kind of thing. For the most part. They went and played at Georgia Tech in Atlanta and Georgia Tech didn't have their tqb. They went and played at usc. USC was playing a new QB in essence, so that like they had minimal road schedule. Whereas this year at Arkansas, at Miami, week one at bc, which is never like truly an easy game at pit, and then they get USC A M and Boise at home. So their schedule for me is, is the big question that I have. Can they navigate a consistently an opponent that can potentially beat you type schedule? Because they didn't have to at all last year and they even got beat by one of the teams that they shouldn't have and that's Northern Illinois.

[David Pollack]

Niu. Yeah, that wasn't pretty. But besides that, they were a really consistent team. I think both sides of the line of scrimmage. I trust Al golden being gone is a big question mark that I think you could put on that list because I thought he was, I thought he was one of the best DCs in college football, which was a big deal. I think to me though, it's quarterback. Like we, we can talk about all the different things. Like, you're not replacing Brent Experience. You're not replacing a qb. You're replacing the heartbeat of your squad. Like he was everything of your. You watch the national championship game, first drive, dude had like 11 carries and puking on the sidelines to go get in the house. Like he just, he was the heartbeat, he was the short yardage guy. He made love better. He wasn't the greatest passer in the world, but that's exactly what they were and who they were. And you know, to me, I know Riley Leonard is not an NFL starting QB probably, but that dude is a college warrior. Replacing him is not going to be easy.

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah. And you got game one at Miami. So next Texas Longhorns. By the way, we, we went through our award show the other day Monday and mentioned a lot of Texas players like Colin Simmons and Anthony Hill, among others, Arch Manning, Taft, like, among others. Like, so what's the question mark, you think?

[David Pollack]

Well, I, I don't have any question marks about their defense. I think their defense is going to be elite. I think Arch has a chance to be good. I don't think the weapons are what they were and what they've had at Texas, but it's the offensive line, like the offensive line. Almost everybody gone. You know, you're two stalwarts at tackle who were both absolute studs and stallions and so I think you know they were able to do a lot and have a lot of success even with quarterback play that was kind of iffy because they weren't great at the quarterback spot. No here but I think the offensive line allowed them to run the football and make the game easy. So I think to me it was clearly if and again I'm doing this with you at the same time which is fantastic. It's so much fun But I'm saying the offensive line for Texas.

[Brent Rollins]

Yep O line exactly what I wrote down especially because the the two booking tackles that you lose the center that was you know three or four year starter that you lost. There's one all right Penn State we.

[David Pollack]

Are Penn State Ty Warren he gone I mean God I I I Colton Ecki upgraded D.C. with Knowles offensive line's gonna be better more experienced I think Colton I think it's it's Ty Warn slash weapons are they good enough on the perimeter Because I think the defense is going to be really good really solid QB is a three year starter Running backs obviously studly I think I'll go the weapons on offense can they can they be proven in the passing game and win on the outside to create space to run more I don't think that's where you went I'm pretty positive I know where you went after being around you this long.

[Brent Rollins]

Oh okay.

[David Pollack]

Let's see James Franklin Big games is always a question mark for you so.

[Brent Rollins]

I did so here's the under one umbrella I'll read you what I wrote Big games can't get over the hump mental slash pressure like all the things this is supposed to be their year and that's an they probably know that as much as.

[David Pollack]

Handling the big stage and being the guys and expectations and yep.

[Brent Rollins]

And being the get over getting over the hump the Ohio State hump like all that kind of stuff Spoiler alert.

[David Pollack]

Big games Penn State is it might be Pete Thamel might talk about them in a positive positive light coming up in the the interview we did with him so that will add more fuel to that fire that Brent's talking about but no I mean in a new spot for sure but I do feel like man Penn State's been knocking on this door brother. Like it ain't like this is the first time they came to the house like they've been to the crib before they've knocked on the door the I mean they haven't been invited in but last year they Got invited in and they had a cup of coffee and dad gum, almost went to the national championship game. So let's not forget, like, a lot of times, this stuff works in progressions. And Penn State slowly getting better, got to the playoff, got their feet wet. Now they get to bring guys back. They got the. The best one to OC DC Punch probably in college football, period. And so I think they're. I think Penn State's ready for this.

[Brent Rollins]

So the bouncer's been letting them in the club, and they've been hanging out in the club. They just. They just don't get. They don't. Haven't gotten to hang out in the VIP lounge.

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah.

[Brent Rollins]

Basically what you're saying, it's okay, but.

[David Pollack]

But hey, it's coming, though. It's coming.

[Brent Rollins]

Oh, goodness gracious. All right, next. And that's a great pick. James Franklin in that picture, rocking the bald. The bald head and looks like he's.

[David Pollack]

About ready to beat somebody's ace.

[Brent Rollins]

Dialed in. Next up, Georgia.

[David Pollack]

Oof. I'll go.

[Brent Rollins]

I'll go first with this one.

[David Pollack]

There's so many. You could go with George.

[Brent Rollins]

Honestly, I mean, there's a lot of unknowns, but I still think the. If you look at. We talked about this from an offensive standpoint, I think they could maybe not be as talented a quarterback, but get better quarterback play and their offense and the weapons around the quarterback be better. I think it's the defensive line who becomes a true difference maker in the defensive line, because that, to me, is the difference between 21 and 22. And what you've seen from Georgia the last few years is you didn't have, especially on the interior, a singular presence that can affect first and second down, especially when teams try to pass against them. Who steps up? Is it Elijah Griffin, the true freshman is. Does Jordan hall come back? Does Christian Miller become more than just a great run defender? Those kind of questions. Xavier McLeod, does he take a big leap? Somebody, especially along the interior defensive line? I think that's where. To me, the biggest question is, bro.

[David Pollack]

Let me tell you, I told y' all a couple weeks ago that I met Elijah Griffin. And I mean, that ain't no freshman. I don't give a dang that. That's not a freshman. Like, that's a grown man. That's a gam. That's a grown Irish man. Like, I mean, that dude, like, I was like this and shook his hand. It was like, yeah, like, way up here. Yeah. Like, that dude is. Is. Is unbelievable. I mean, he's just A big, good looking human being. Yes, sir. Like, very, very well spoken. It'll be interesting to see. But I think defensive line is. Is probably the biggest issue. But I would just say I would cat. I would steal and go lines of scrimmage because offensive line wasn't that much better for Georgia a year ago. It was a big struggle.

[Brent Rollins]

Inconsistent.

[David Pollack]

It was super inconsistent. Running the football being like. It's just period. So both lines of scrimmage, which is a staple of Kirby smart and physicality and toughness, they kind of lacked that a year ago in that department. So I'm really interested to see if that. If that really comes back.

[Brent Rollins]

Arizona State. I have one and that is just that the Big 12 might be kind of wacky and different. I actually don't really have a lot of. They're really a veteran team and I. I like everything about their team. Even transfer running back that come in like Jordan, Tyson, Levitt, we've already talked about and kind of gushed on. Yeah, I just. The. The Big 12, sometimes it's just nuts. And that to me is the biggest question is, does kind of become par for the course or does it get wacky in the Big 12?

[David Pollack]

Yeah, you know, it's amazing. It's amazing when you turn all the lights on in your house, how the light really works. I mean, I just realized that I didn't have a light on and it's like, man, it's really dark. It's hard to see you. And then you're like, oh, hey, idiot. There's. There's a set of lights that you didn't turn on, but you can't fix. Stupid. Here on seatball. Git ball. Arizona.

[Brent Rollins]

Long day for you.

[David Pollack]

It's been a long day. Yeah. Arizona State, I think that. I mean, do you naturally go their. Their engine that's gone at the running back spot and do they have that running back? Because Cam Scatter Boo wasn't just a guy. He was a dude. And, and part of the team like.

[Brent Rollins]

You talked about with Leonard.

[David Pollack]

Heartbeat, physicality, toughness, and I'm gonna pat ourselves on the back. Brent. Like we were talking about him week two last year. Like week three, week four. And then everybody's looked up and was like, oh, Arizona State's really, really good. And we're like, yeah, like, watch these. Like, they're really good. I mean, everything back. We talked about the. The OC in place. We talked about the QB in place. The Big 12 being the conference that it is. I think it. It allows them to continue to develop and grow and find weapons outside of Tyson. But I, I'd say the running back spot. Does the running game get. Get going or did Scatter boo make that thing go?

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah, we'll see. We'll see the engine. All right. Next up, Oregon.

[David Pollack]

The Ducks. I mean I, I don't.

[Brent Rollins]

I'll give you mine.

[David Pollack]

Okay, go ahead.

[Brent Rollins]

How quickly can I think it's decorion the Corian, something like that.

[David Pollack]

More.

[Brent Rollins]

The five star ranked fifth overall in the Rivals recruiting rankings. Wide receiver. How quickly can he become a dude? Especially now with Evan Stewart's injury.

[David Pollack]

I'm about to say Evan Stewart injury. So what about the guy throwing the football? You just.

[Brent Rollins]

I actually kind of like you mentioned it the other day when we talked about potential Heisman. You feel so confident in the system and the talent and what they've been doing that a quarterback is almost plug and play kind of thing.

[David Pollack]

Yeah.

[Brent Rollins]

And the quarterback needs dudes. So to me that's, it's more about how quickly can that guy become a big time player for them. And he shows some flashes in the spring game. I saw.

[David Pollack]

Yeah, I, I think that. But I feel like, I feel like Oregon's gonna have dudes regardless. Like they've been recruiting dudes at a high level. You know what I think we'll find out about the quarterback spot is how ready are you for the moment. You know, and obviously having a guy that has experience that is, that is, that is. You're not. He's not starting over like he's played some football. You know, I just think it's the quarterback spot. Yes. Bo Nix, Dylan Gabriel obviously were dudes but you know, it's more now. Right. Like how much, I mean how, how ready are you for this moment and how prepared are you and then the big games and then these. I just, I think it to me Oregon's going to go. If their quarterback is elite, then they're going to be really, really good. But I also think the quarterback at that position has been so good. There's also kind of a standard to live up to as well. But we'll see how he does. Man. I do think it's going to be tough though.

[Brent Rollins]

All right. Boise State, the Broncos.

[David Pollack]

I mean, I mean, yes, that.

[Brent Rollins]

I think that one's probably the easiest one. They lost an all timer of a running back. But also like for me the schedule is one that's interesting because last year they only had the one loss at Oregon and they played really well this year. Game one, they got to go to South Florida. That's Not a just layup. And granted their team is a very veteran team. QB's back, that sort of thing. But you, you lose that and you can still get in the College Football Playoff because of being the highest ranked G5 team. But in terms of having that higher seed and being up there in the rankings like they were last year. No, I don't think. I think you have very little room for error for that versus being the true, like 12 seed.

[David Pollack]

Yeah. And can Boise stay. Can Boise stay up there and. Because listen, they played some good games last year. Like, it wasn't like, I mean unlv, you remember, was. Was pretty solid. Like, that was pretty good. They played them twice, remember, like.

[Brent Rollins]

Yep.

[David Pollack]

In both games were competitive. Were very, very competitive.

[Brent Rollins]

So they get them at home.

[David Pollack]

I think this year, losing that dude at the, at the tailback spot, like with the. Off. Now, listen, I love Mad Dog and I think the offensive line with experience and I think with that qb, like, I mean, he's good. I, I think he's got a lot. He's got a lot of those intrinsic qualities that you really want in the leader. Like, you don't have any doubts about where he'll get them, but I think having. Having a guy you could hand the ball off to 20 times a game and go 50 plus a lot of those times, like, and make big plays. It's, It's. It's. To me that's pretty obvious, but it's the running back replacement and can he be a guy?

[Brent Rollins]

Different animal. Very, very true. Tennessee. Can any wide receiver step up and be a guy? They need somebody. I actually, in terms of the QB issue, I don't really. I think it might be addition by subtraction, but it's still one where you.

[David Pollack]

Think it's addition by subtraction.

[Brent Rollins]

Possibly, Possibly. We'll see. We'll see.

[David Pollack]

Yeah.

[Brent Rollins]

I mean, coach bet on it, by the way. The coach said so. In essence.

[David Pollack]

Yeah. I mean the whole situation, obviously, you know, it was, it was an interesting situation. It's not like anything we've ever seen in the history of college football, which is saying something like it's been around for a long time and the way it unfolded and holding out and you know, basically telling get told your go bye bye and. And hit the road and now you're bringing. But, but here's the thing, man. I don't think the system is overly complex, but I do think it helps being in the system for a while. Like, I don't think that's easy to step into a new system and just all of a sudden you're going to be, you're going to be elite. It's just not as easy to do as you. As you would think. But I think it's. To me, it's the offense. Like, it's the offense as a whole because it's the running game. It's receivers who. Because your best player last year was Dylan Sampson and it wasn't close like, that dude was an animal. And I would argue you didn't push many people around. You didn't make a lot of plays in the, in the receiving game. So the offense has got to grow and get better. I still think this defense is going to be pretty dang good.

[Brent Rollins]

Solid. Yes.

[David Pollack]

It's going to be top five in the sec. I mean, they're, they're really good across the board. And that defensive line still has plenty of guys that were rotating last year in these hockey waves that were really, really good players.

[Brent Rollins]

Let's see, Indiana. Mine was offensive line. 60% of their offensive line. Three of their five are transfers, which, yes, they could be great players, but. Or be very solid for them. But yes, they're. But they're also new. It helps having Mendoza there. I think their defense is going to be solid again. Their, their best defensive players are back. That was me offensive line for that.

[David Pollack]

For me, yeah, I would say too. I don't think Indiana's surprising anybody this year. Like, I think, you know, they're definitely. They've got the attention of everybody. It was like, oh, this is a cute little story, man. You see this team over here, like, hey, it's not even basketball season in Indiana. Looks pretty solid, you know. So I think, I think that was. They kind of snuck up on some people which, which was good, but the dominance was, was incredible. And I think too, like, can you rebuild classes every year? And you know, he had the great opportunity to do it through JMU with all of his transfers and all the people he knew. So now, you know, it's going to be different now. Now you're recruiting some of your own guys and now you're. But you're still. They're still doing the transfer portal thing and still going to be a big part of it. But Signetti year two, I think offensive line, I'm right there with you. But I would say, you know, expectations, handling those and, you know, taking a next step. We've seen programs have spikes and be very successful, but most of the time the blue bloods usually run it and it comes back down to earth. Can Indiana Sustain and keep that power and replace and do another year like they did last year.

[Brent Rollins]

One of the eyes are making the playoff. It's just Indiana, Illinois or Iowa. So I think smu, by the way, I think that was the, the picture there with the sold out was that the Nebraska game that they absolutely destroyed them.

[David Pollack]

Hammered, I think. Yeah, like frying.

[Brent Rollins]

That's where that day. Because it was a noon game, kind of big noon, that sort of stuff.

[David Pollack]

So that USA flag on the, on the field, that, that, that silhouette is pretty dope.

[Brent Rollins]

Yes, I agree. But yeah. All right, smu.

[David Pollack]

Okay, smu. I think with smu, you got the quarterback situation taken care of. Having Maryland back is big. I think that opens up this passing game because now you got a tight end that can really stretch the field so it's not offensively. That D line, though, was dirty. The D line, I don't think people understood like a bunch of transfers and a bunch of guys that they, they got to the quarterback. Man, one of the best rates in all of college football. Got tackles for a loss. Like, really, really hyperactive. Now they got to replace a bunch of those guys on that defensive line and that group's going to be. Obviously, you know, you got to get stops and, And I think they were good because they got people behind the chains and then they use their tempo a lot of times and create explosive plays. And can you do that this year?

[Brent Rollins]

I agree. It's exactly what I wrote down. D line. All right, last one. All hashtag all in Clemson, your biggest question for, for you who have lotted the Tigers. Because I actually have one that I think is a very big question. Two. Two, really? But one primary.

[David Pollack]

Well, I know, I, I know what you're gonna say because if I objectively look at my team this year, all in. Still still got Clemson all the way at the top. I, I think there's. Defensive line is really, really good. I think. I think you're second. First of all, I think your DC makes you better right now. Experience in the secondary, so you can't knock that. I don't think there's anything there you can knock if you're going to go to the other side of the football. The offensive line is always a knock, like always for Clemson, like when they won championships, people were like, their offensive line doesn't push people around.

[Brent Rollins]

Nobody got drafted.

[David Pollack]

Yeah, nobody's getting drafted. But the receivers are good and their quarterbacks were good. So offensive line is definitely something you can say is probably one of the question marks. But how about running back like, who's the guy toting the mail? And I would argue last year was Mafa was not a bad Mafa. Like early on in his career I was like, that's a bad Mafa. And last year, and I know he was dinged up, but he was not downhill, he was not breaking tackles. I just, it left a lot to be desired and they've got to find a way to have the running game. It can't be club Nick all the time. It's got to be outside of Cade. So how did I do hitting your, your spots?

[Brent Rollins]

The running back is the other question. But my primary question, I think it gets helped by the coaching change. But also is their defense like, yes, they're talented and yes, you see preseason draft boards, 33 to Louisville, 38 to Texas, 34 to Georgia, 31 to SMU, J. NC State and Virginia got over 30 against them.

[David Pollack]

Okay, stop.

[Brent Rollins]

Louisville and Texas ran all over them.

[David Pollack]

When you watched them last year, was it talent to you that that was the reason why they were giving up points?

[Brent Rollins]

So that's why I just made the, the prereq. How much does the coaching lift? What was, Answer my question. Did you see games over 30?

[David Pollack]

Did you see it was, did you think it was coaching or did you think it was players?

[Brent Rollins]

A little bit of both.

[David Pollack]

Okay. Because Sammy Brown is a bad mother. Shut your mouth. Like bad boy. We, we've talked about the, the defensive lineman with Parker and Woods, like Freaky Friday first round draft picks, first round cornerback in the back end. Like experience with kb. It's safety. Like I, I, this defense is going to be on a different level. Like they're not going to be doing that consistently and they're going to score. So I, I just say for me, for me watching them a year ago, I thought it was a lot of they needed to be a little bit more dialed in. They needed to play a little bit harder. They need to be put in a little bit better spots at times. At times I just didn't think it was, I thought they were a step slow and they were giving up things. And listen, Dabo doesn't do a lot of firing. Like that's not Dabo's MO and he's very big at, you know, promoting changes for a reason. Yes. But they had to do something because the defensive side of the ball was a disaster and you had way too much talent for that to be a problem like that shouldn't have happened.

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah. So if it that gets fixed, hey, through the roof. And then it's hashtag all in. So, by the way, before we get to the interview, I got to tell everybody out in the sort of social media and anybody in the Athens area that happens to see you out tomorrow, make sure they wish you happy birthday tomorrow. Appreciate you old, you old cat that you are. I still got you by, I still got you by a year.

[David Pollack]

But baby doll, Baby doll said to me in the car, she was like, do you feel like you're getting, like, are you the, are you getting like an old man yet? And I was like, not even close. I said, I feel great, so feel good. Not worried about it too much. Hey, what do we got people turning in or tuning in from? Man, Let's.

[Brent Rollins]

I saw some Swanee, some Tallahassee. So, yeah, Swanny, that's where I hang out for work. So I know that area well.

[David Pollack]

Yeah, in Tallahassee, we were asking for nicknames in the feed. They have a bunch of different nicknames in Tallahassee I've heard. Tala, Trashy, Talonasty. I, I, I like Tallahassee personally. Like, it's a, it's a cool spot. By the way, one of the most intriguing college football teams this year. Like, I, I legit. I, I don't, I, I know they're not going to win two games. I got no clue what they're going to be, though. Like, I have no gauge of, of where they're at now. Like, it's amazing. A couple years ago, you're like, this program's about to ascend and take off. And now you're like, I don't know what they're going to be. Gus Malzon comes in. New quarterback Thomas Castellanos will be freaking fantastic and dynamic and a playmaker. But I guess we'll get to our boy Pete Thammel now. Brent, appreciate it. Nice show as always. We'll let Pete take you home. We just got to catch up with Pete. I got to catch up with him earlier today and just discuss the, the ever changing landscape of college football and getting Pete to kind of loosen up a little bit. Like talk about some, some stories, to talk about some family and it's pizza. Pete's a great dude, but, but Pete this super excited to talk to this next guy. Pete Thamel. Got to work with him on college game day. He still works there. He's basically the insider. It's, it's insider trading. It's illegal at any other company. But Pete knows everything about everything. He's the most connected guy that I think I've ever met in college football. It was Great to work with you, Pete, too. And I want to know this, man. Like, I want to know, how did Pete Thamel become Pete Thamel? Like, how did you go. I'm going to be an investigative detective in the sport of. In this. College football. Like, how did you get started in this?

[Pete Thamel]

So this may surprise you, David, because we worked with each other for such a long time, but I do not cut the profile of an elite athlete. So those dreams very, very quickly, I.

[David Pollack]

Mean, you're only lacking a few parts of it. You know, the height, the speed, the agility, the. I mean, just a few parts.

[Pete Thamel]

Pretty much all of it. Yeah, pretty much all of it. So that recognition came quick, quickly, that I would not be. I would not. I would not be going to Notre Dame to be a. To be a. To be a will linebacker. So, you know, I did grow up. I grew up in Massachusetts and grew up loving. Loving sports. My dad was high school principal at the local school in my town. So I was, you know, grew up going games, going to football games, basketball games, all that kind of stuff, and, you know, had an affinity for sports and read a lot. You know, I was a nerd growing up. Read a lot of books, read a lot of newspapers, you know, did. Did all that kind of stuff. So went to college, and by the time I got there, I kind of knew what I wanted to do, which I think was fortunate because I went to Syracuse, where every other jerk at ESPN went, right? And there, you know, really is a great. Is a great launching pad. And I'm not going to go through all the people who've gone to Syracuse and gone on to our profession and done a really good job a lot. There are, there. It is a long and distinguished list. And what that does is it gives you a very clear pathway to say, hey, I can do this. I can create.

[David Pollack]

Go.

[Pete Thamel]

I can go do this. So I walked into the school paper my first day there, worked there for four years, was very lucky. There. There's a lot of luck involved in this story, I can assure you. But, you know, Don McNabb was the quarterback, so the first game that I ever went to at Syracuse was his first start, and then he had four years of really, really good football. So for being a Northeast kid who didn't really grow up in the heartbeat of SEC football like you did, David, it was a good exposure to that. So by the time I went and covered the team, I covered the Orange bowl, they were playing Miami, some of those great teams from BU and they even ran them in 98. And I covered the Fiesta Bowl. They put a Bill Snyder team. So I just got all these great touches to the sport. They opened in the Kickoff Classic one year against Rondane in Wisconsin. Right. So I'm in all these press boxes, I'm out all these great games, I'm seeing all these things and you know, developing an affinity for college football at the same time in the winter, obviously, college. College basketball at Syracuse in that time and many times is obviously one of the. The heartbeats.

[David Pollack]

Always good.

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah. It's just that they were consistently excellent under Jim Beheim for a very long time. And that was old Big east days. You had St. John's coming in, you know, Villanova, Georgetown rivalry was rock and roll. So anyway, like, how couldn't you, like, develop an affinity for. For kind of this crazy world of college sports? I grew up, you know, very much a pro sports fan. So yeah, I got hired at the local paper in Syracuse use after my graduation. Made $29,000 a year and loaded football and doing a little bit everything and then just kind of built it from there. And I think from 1999 until now, what I would say is just like, you got to show up, man. You gotta. You gotta go, you gotta. You know, I'm flying to a campus tomorrow morning.

[David Pollack]

You.

[Pete Thamel]

You always just have to go see people. College sports changes pretty exponentially, right? Like when you walk in the Georgia building, what is the equipment guy? The same.

[David Pollack]

You walk in the Georgia what?

[Pete Thamel]

When you walk in the Georgia building, how many people are the same from when you.

[David Pollack]

Oh, they change.

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah, a lot. And it probably changed like three years out, right? And it's just. It's gonna go and go and go. Usually it's that the sids and even he retired. God bless Claude and the EQ guys, right? They're usually there for a while and then after that, like, there's not a lot. So college sports is this just wildly rapidly changing landscape and you have to go relearn it and renow it and re ingratiate yourself in it. And so I got fired by the New York Times and 2004 to cover national colleges. So this would be my 22nd year doing it. And you know, just a lot of, you know, been all 50 states that been to. I think I've been to every. Well, it was every Power 5 campus except Washington State. But I don't know if we're going to count them as that anymore. But yeah, you know, like, like you have David. Colin gave us all those years and going to game day Those years, been to, been to all the places, you know, been lucky enough to meet all the folks and then you just kind of build and grow.

[David Pollack]

Yeah, well, you do, you do a good job with that. Now you say the ever changing landscape of college football, like you've been on this realignment stuff. Like talk about the, the realignment piece that's coming. Because I think that, I think some people are like crap, man. Like, we've done this so many times, it's hard to keep up. So now what's going on with it?

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah. So I would say this major conference realignment like that would rock college football. Like we saw with the usc, UCLA move from, for example, a couple years ago and then the, the ripple with Washington, Oregon and the Texas, Oklahoma. Those are like the two in the last decade that have been major. I don't think we'll see any of that, David, for, you know, about five years. Right?

[David Pollack]

We're, we're brace five minutes and 50 seconds. Yeah, we won't see that for forever.

[Pete Thamel]

Yes. But I do think the ripples of those bigger moves are still being felt. So we have the rebuilt PAC 12. And look, deadlines spur actions, right? You know that, I know that we all have deadlines and they make us do things. And the rebuilt Pac 12 right now has eight members, seven full time football members, and they need to get eight full time football members to be an FBS league. And they need to do that by 2026, which means they need to add somebody fairly soon. They've long targeted Texas State as the school from the Sunbelt to San Marcos, Texas, Right. South of Austin. There's sort of, there's mutual interest there and that would, will seemingly happen before Texas State buyout doubles after July 1st first. So I would think we get, we get a ripple there. The Pac12 becomes a league and then it can maybe strategically build and, and pluck a few more brands from there, but they need to get whole first. And that's the kind of the move that needs to be made. And then from there, if you're, if your listeners are in the weeds, the Sunbelt would have to likely add a team. They'd go from 14, 13. Louisiana Tech is the favorite. And we know that because in the fall, Texas State was close to going to Mountain west and they all kind of huddled and thought, okay, we'll probably add Louisiana Tech from there. And then if Louisiana Tech leaves Conference usa, the favor to, to fill that spot as they'd go from 11 to 10 would be Charlton State. So every, every action Has a. Has an opposite reaction, David. And that's what. That's the way this looks like it could play out in the upcoming weeks here. And as I know about realignment, it usually happens right around the Fourth of July when I'm trying to not work.

[David Pollack]

When you're trying to get some. Some time off. So all of that stuff, man, like, makes my head hurt. I played defense for a reason. But, like, what about the. What about the conversation around the house settlement? Like, sure, you know, college football changing and, and obviously new rules coming in. Like, what are the coaches talking about? What is. Is this a positive thing? Or how are all the coaches responding? Because when I say Pete talks to every coach, like, he talks to everybody in college football.

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah. So I think there's the best way to look at the house settlement. It is not. It doesn't actually settle anything. It sort of restarts a new path. And in theory, there's a lot of very good things on that new path. There is direct payment of schools. If you were still at Georgia, David, you would get a check from Georgia. You would have a salary slot at Georgia. Say you're going to do your senior year. You would be slotted as an All American starting defensive lineman. You would probably make seven figures considering your production and, you know, what you. What you had done. So I do think that's been expected for a while, but I think that gets lost a little bit because, you know, look, like the notion of Georgia paying you when you were there would have been, like, blown your mind, right?

[David Pollack]

Well, legally, yes, legally, getting.

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah, we don't know about the other stuff. Yes, the version of the notion, but the notion of, like the athletic department cutting you a check, right. Like paying that way is. Is. Is still, like, pretty, like, whoa. It goes counter to amateurism, college. Like, all these things that have been hammered in our heads, right or wrong, for. For all these years. So that's the first part of this, is that there's going to be $20.5 million at essentially every major campus to share with athletes. And that is, I, in my opinion, extremely positive, David. I think that's a very. I just think that's a very good thing to this pie that grew and grew and grew and grew with conference TV networks, billion dollar TV deals, and a playoff. Now that we'll talk about later, but is going to continue to grow. That's. That. That a stream of that and a pretty significant stream, right, is going to go to the people playing the games, the athletes performing, and, and I'm, you know, that, that's real quick.

[David Pollack]

That's so important because what people don't understand is like, can you imagine Pete playing a game or coaching a game and you're, you're building your whole schedule around everything you do, but you don't know the rules. Yeah, like, that's the dumbest. Like nobody would play. Nobody would be like, you know what, sign me up for that. I don't know the rules. I don't know how we're all doing this, but that's kind of how it's been for, for a while now in this sport.

[Pete Thamel]

It has, it has been a, it's been a really awkward sideways time and there's been a lot of coach complaining. I think now where it is, it's like we're reset on this path, David. And there's a lot of unknown, quite frankly, there's a lot of cynicism whether the rules will be able to be enforced. So the 20.5 million is actually pretty simple, right. You cut it up, you get a salary cap. Everybody's brought in a guy from the NFL to say, okay, the backup linebacker makes this. The certain tailback makes this. You know, that's all, that's all kind of settled. People are prepared for that. What, what is where the tension points are going to switch to, David, is how does outside nil get adjudicated? How does outside nil. So all these, all these schools built these powerful collectives that have leveraged the brands and you know, they're marketing firms, they brought in advertisers, they brought in, you know, the local car dealerships, some of the similar college stuff. And then the top five players in the sport, remember like Bryce Young had Cash app. Right. Like, so if you are a player who cuts through in college football, you could go get a big national Gatorade commercial or you know, one of something. You know who did it? DJ, I think. And Django LA and Caleb did Dr. Pepper. Right. So there's like that level for the highest guys. But then locally, can the car dealership pay the star running back a half million dollars? Like is that. And that's. It's going to be. They were calling it fair market value and they've sort of gone away from that. Yeah, they've gone away from that term a little bit.

[David Pollack]

Find my market now.

[Pete Thamel]

It's range of compensation is the term new problems. Yes. Look, I, you don't start a whole new system and put in rules and, and such without issues. Now they've actually started. So the NCAA obviously generally an unpopular organization, has been for a long time. I know you've been critical of them. Everybody's been critical of them on, on game day and beyond. Like it's, you know, it's hard to find like a guy, you know, folks in our space who are, you know, positive of the ncaa. I will say this, David. I think one of the smartest things I've seen them do in my two decades doing this is getting rid of enforcement. So this, there's an outside entity now that is going to adjudicate all this stuff. It's called the College Sports Commission. The settlement passed and then this commission went in place, you know, immediately, basically. And they hired a seven figure job to come in to basically build this structure on how to do all this. Now look, competent people, there's always been competent people, smart people, well meaning people, they've just failed to wrap their arms around it. Now this guy has a new challenge and a fresh sheet. But there are going to be issues. It is not going to be seamless. Coaches are already looking down the road, seeing issues. Hey, they're doing it this way. They're promising guys stuff up front you can't do. You know, there, you know, there will always be finger pointing. And I think that the tension there is this, David, like the, the brands that have had advantages over the years, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Alabama, Texas, usc, whatever, you know who they are. And I'm not picking or excluding anyone for any reason. Like the big thumper brands have always had built in advantages. It used to be when you were getting recruited, I'm sure it was stadium size and weight room size. Right. And then it's, you know, shifted as the nil era has come and they've been able to leverage those brands. Do those brands really want to give up their advantage? Like they, at its core, college football doesn't want to be the NFL. They don't want Baylor to have the same salary cap as Alabama and they don't want Wake Forest to have the same amount to spend as lsu. Right? Then I'm just using like, you know, just random arbitrary Big 12 ACC versus your Big 10, Ohio State and you know, Syracuse, whatever it is. Right? Fill in the blank. Like at the core, the people who run the sport of the power in the sport don't want Everybody to have 20.5 million. And it's this big slog like the NFL where people go up and down and like little, little variances. The, the big brands, the thumper places want to, want to continue to leverage those big brands, leverage their Income leverage, their popularity to have the best players.

[David Pollack]

Let me ask you this, Pete. Hold on, let me stop you real quick. Yeah, go now, not everybody's salary cap will be the same because that $24.5 million is for the athletic department. The school decides what they want to allocate for football, basketball, etc. Correct?

[Pete Thamel]

Yes. So, for example, Georgia, who we keep using, because I'm looking at you here. What Was that?

[David Pollack]

It's 80, 15 and 5.

[Pete Thamel]

Yes. And so I was just going to say, generally they're going to give a higher percentage to football over basketball than Kentucky. Right. You know, same as Arizona, Kansas. Yeah. Like, yeah. So like the basketball focused schools are going to give a bigger swath to basketball. And so where it becomes interesting, like one of the interesting hypotheticals here is take Florida and basketball. They just won the national championship, right. They're running, they're running hard. They've got a huge roster this year. They spent a ton of money. When, when these rules all come to settle for next year, is Marquette, St. John's and Villanova going to have double or triple the basketball roster available? Money, you know, from the school, then these places. So then we go in the margins. Is Florida really going to just like lose players to Georgetown because they don't have that cap space, like so that's hard to imagine that honestly, the leadership of the sport land the habit. So those are some of the places where I really think there's, you know, there's going to be some pressure points.

[David Pollack]

What does the NCAA do now? You gave them a compliment, by the way, which, which I appreciate because they basically. I like the way you said it. You basically said like, hey, they did something good. They basically took themselves out of the equation. Great job. Like, you did a good job by removing what you were supposed to do. So I find that interesting.

[Pete Thamel]

I mean, they failed at it for miserably.

[David Pollack]

So what, what, what do they do now? What, what is the NCAA's role in sport?

[Pete Thamel]

Sure. So they run championships. I would say they do a good job with that. Right. NCAA Tournament, Final Four. And now we're in that kind of the season of Omaha College World Series and softball. Like that is, that is one of their main tasks. And I, I would argue they, I would argue they do that. Well now there's a lot of, like every sports organization needs infrastructure, right. So they're going to do the academic stuff, compliance stuff, eligibility stuff, rulemaking, fairness of the game. So for example, they would not take the NC State nil case because that's going to go to the College Sports Commission and Brian Seely, they would still do the Connor Stallions case because that's a fairness issue, a fair play issue. That's not. There was no, like, illegal, you know, bag of money dropped. That was. They were breaking NCAA rules when it comes to the game. So there will be places they pop up, but they basically outsource their least popular, least effective, you know, shop.

[David Pollack]

What, what a great job of business. Like to be able to retain all of this income. But I'm just going to outsource some of this. It's really good job.

[Brent Rollins]

All right.

[David Pollack]

So, Pete, all of the decisions that are made in college football, whether we expand, whether we. All the things that are going to continue to happen, like the SEC and the Big Ten basically have all the power. Correct. Like they, they. After this season, they. They are the two majority shares and they're going to make the decisions that. That affect college football. What is that going to look like for everybody?

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah. So I think the first place we're going to see that is the playoff here, David. And I think it's going to take still six more months or so for the CFP to make a decision on what's next. I expect it to be 16 from talking to sources as this stuff has percolated, and I would expect it to be the 5 and 11 model going going forward that there was kind of a pivot at SEC meetings towards that. And there's strong support from the ACC in the Big 12. You know, for the Big 10 to get there, we're going to have to see the SEC go to nine conference games. I'm sure since you were a player, people were talking about a nine conference games in the sec. I think we finally see that happen. The ACC would go to nine conference games as well. And then also, and I think this is critical because this is when. And you've been on all these shows and analyzed and talked about this for years, when in November. We're sitting there analyzing resumes and say who's going to be in, who's going to be out, how strength of schedule is factored into that. So they're meeting right now, this week that we're talking in Asheville, North Carolina. Carolina. There's some CFP meetings, commissioner meetings, and they're really drilling down on the role of strength of schedule and how wins and losses will be weighted. So a win over Louisiana, Monroe doesn't get weighted the same as that. Like, it's not just the number on the left side of the column and the Number of losses, the losses, if they're losses to, you know, lsu, Tennessee and whoever are going to. To not be as punitive because of the, the quality of them. So I think they're. They're basically going to acknowledge that the, the. The big thumper leagues, you're playing more difficult games and those losses are going to be contextualized some. So how they do that, the math to do it all, that is boundlessly complex. I'm not a, like a hardcore numbers guy, so I'm not going to sit here and tell you I know the, the magic mathematical formula. The one thing I've learned over the years, I guarantee it will be controversial once you're starting to put teams.

[David Pollack]

The thing you need to know is it won't.

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah, it won't.

[David Pollack]

It won't be. It won't be. Like, because, Pete, we had a magical system that did numbers that picked it, and we were pissed. Then we decided to go a different direction. We're going to be. It's impossible to, to measure. Like, because here's the thing. What I deem important for strength of schedule versus what you deem important is, is it might be different. And that's okay. And that's why you need multiple voices. Well, where does the College Football Playoff committee come into this equation then? Like, what. What decision making are they going to be doing in the future? Because if you're giving more automatic qualifiers, like, there's less work for them to do, what. What is their responsibilities going to lead to?

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah, David, So if it's the 5 and 11 model, which is, I think, the current expectation, lot of. Lot of road to plow still. But that's current expectation. The committee would pick the 11. Now, look, eight of the 11 are going to be pretty obvious, right? Like, you know, there won't be and that. But then when you get to that cluster of the last three and then the next three, that's where the tension point comes. I think some of the, like, redefining and further defining trade, the schedule and the role, wins, losses, is going to try to take some of the power out of the committee's hands. Like, the commissioners have been pretty blunt and some of the SEC ads have said this pretty bluntly that they don't trust the committee, basically. So, yeah, it's.

[David Pollack]

It's.

[Pete Thamel]

What's old is new again, right? We didn't trust the numbers. We brought in people. We don't trust the people. We're bringing in numbers. Like, it's just. Yeah, it's in round and round and Round we go. Right. So I think they're going to try to meet in the middle there where things are, things are better. Better contextualized in terms of the wins and the losses and the quality of wins and losses, you know, etc, to try to put the committee in position to make better decisions.

[David Pollack]

Such a. Such a hard thing, such a hard to do. All right, a couple more questions for you. I'll let you get out of here because I'm sure you got a story to break. What's the most intriguing storyline this year to you? Like the, the storyline that you're, you're going to focus on and that you think is going to be really fun to watch next season.

[Pete Thamel]

So I'm excited about the Kan Penn State breakthrough story. Right. They are a top five program that wants. It needs to get to one or two. Right. Like they just haven't. They've been, they've been consistently excellent but just short of elite. And I feel like roster wise, O line wise, you and I always used to talk about O lines a lot. You'd watch the film, I talk to the scouts. I think Penn State has one of the best O lines in the country. Starts there. I think Drew Aller is a top 10 NFL draft pick. They have the best tailback tandem in the country. They don't have good receiver players play and haven't they brought in some portal guys to try to upgrade that? But that's been a consistent nag of that program. So. And then James Franklin, you know, hall of Fame resume. But the big games, you know, he's come up consistently short. So can Penn State, David, be that team that, that breaks through, finally wins the big ones, goes deep in the playoff? Obviously, you know, look, they were, they were a draller interception away from going to overtime to play for the national title last year. So like they have been right at the doorstep and you've obviously done this a long time. Like I have usually the teams that are consistently excellent and get to the doorstep breakthrough at some point. And this feels like the roster in the moment for them. They obviously paying Jim Knowles, you know, highest salary and you know, so they, they are locked and loaded for this. And you know, the sub story there is how do you handle that? Right, right. If you're at a place that's just come up short, that all, you know, there has to be. That's probably the most pressurized program for high end performance this year. How do they handle it? How do they go? I'm very bullish on Penn State. I think they're I think they've got the best roster in the Big Ten. I think they are a national championship type team. They also. I think this is important, David. If you look at Michigan two years ago in Ohio State last year, both of them opened with three cupcakes. So you have a month to really get your team refined. Clemson and lsu, they're gonna punch in the face the first series, right? They're gonna punch in the face first series. If you have a veteran team, you can go forge your identity. You can try some different things. You can make some mistakes early. Nobody's gonna notice because it's going to be 50 something to a single digit on the other side. And then you can, you can come out in late September when the. When league play starts and really have a refined identity. And I think that's. That's been a subtle thing that was probably not talked about a lot on the last two national champions is they had a. They had a month to find themselves before they were going to be challenged.

[David Pollack]

And I think the.

[Pete Thamel]

Well, for Penn State that way.

[David Pollack]

I think the, the best OCDC combination last year was. Was Ohio State to be able to have Chip Kelly and Jim Knowles. I'm not sure it's going to get any better than, to me, than Coltonecki and Knowles. Like, that's. So now James Franklin has the coach on each side of the football. He's done the recruiting thing. Now he's just got a lead, you know, and he's got the players and experience. So I'm with you. Everything's back. All right, last question, Pete. And this is, this is not. This is not on a script, so I'm gonna have to get you to, you know, I'm gonna see. I'm gonna see what you got with this brother.

[Pete Thamel]

All right, let's go.

[David Pollack]

I want to know a Pete Thamel story of, like, something was breaking. You're in an inconvenient spot, and you got to go do something weird. Like you did something that was. That was different or you, you didn't have the suit, you didn't have the tie. Like, you were just. You're putting this together with, like, shoestring and duct tape.

[Pete Thamel]

Oh, man, there's. There's a lot of them. Because news never breaks at convenient times. I missed the, The Easter egg hunt. That was a week before Easter when the Nico story broke. When, when Tennessee and him parted ways. That was a Saturday morning. My wife looked at me and I was like, I'll meet you at the hunt. We got it. We Got, we got, we got to tackle this.

[David Pollack]

Hey, what do you, what do you. Does she just roll her eyes at this point? Like, how does that handle?

[Pete Thamel]

She says, oh, this is the biggest story of the year again for the night. I'll tell you this one. It was fourth of July, my first year at espn. We are, we're in our condo. I'm packing the car, right? Condo building, garage, bringing the suitcases in. I get a text about USC and ucla. And I go up to my office and I'm like, you know, just like slammed on tv. Tv, like it just going, going, writing, writing, writing. And then I walk out of the office. We're obviously not going to take the drive to Cape Cod that day. It was, I think it was a Thursday. And we were trying to beat the traffic, right? And we're gonna leave midday. Teddy's a little, little guy, so we wanted to like time it right. It's like a 70 mile drive, but it can, if it goes sideways, it can take three hours, right? And I walk out my office at like 7 and I was like, I didn't close the trunk. I gotta go down to the car. I just left it. I just left the truck open.

[David Pollack]

That's, that's kind of necessity.

[Pete Thamel]

That was one. That was, what if.

[David Pollack]

David always like, where's all our stuff?

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah, no, so I was like, we're gonna go tomorrow. I don't even think we went tomorrow. Cause that was a, that was, that was a bit of a whipple one. So, yeah, there's. It just, you know, when, when Ted was born, it took a couple days. So I'm sitting there in the hospital room, you know, somebody's always hired an ad. Yeah, there's. I'm embarrassed. The places that, where I've been where, you know, you pull over on the side of the highway. Yeah, just kind of, just kind of happens. My joke, David, is chaos is job security. And if there's one thing college athletics does not lack, it's chaos.

[David Pollack]

Especially the last last couple years. There's no doubt about that. But. All right, my man. Appreciate you like always. Always good to talk to you. Appreciate your time.

[Pete Thamel]

Yeah, David, thanks for having me, man. Appreciate you, my friend.

[David Pollack]

See, dude.