These Teams Have the Best D-Linemen in CFB | The Future of Defense with Cody Alexander

Summary

See Ball Get Ball with David Pollack: Episode Summary Episode Title: These Teams Have the Best D-Linemen in CFB | The Future of Defense with Cody Alexander
Release Date: June 5, 2025

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Introduction and Campus Insights

[00:00 - 02:16]
David Pollack opens the episode with his co-host Brent Rollins, sharing casual banter about the excitement surrounding upcoming college football events. They briefly discuss non-football topics, including a recent golfing experience Pollack had in Vidalia, Georgia. Despite a challenging game that left Pollack feeling "absolutely ruined by the course" ([02:16]), the conversation sets a relaxed and personable tone for the episode.

Listener Feedback and Baseball Banter

[03:01 - 07:09]
Cody Alexander, the guest expert on defense, joins the hosts to address listener comments and feedback. Pollack humorously acknowledges a one-star review from a listener named Bobby, expressing appreciation for all types of feedback ([04:04]). The discussion then shifts to a recent heated college baseball weekend, highlighting increased emotions and antics such as bat flips and dugout taunting. Cody references Chipper Jones's critique of Coastal Carolina's baseball program, questioning Pollack's stance on similar behaviors in baseball.

Brent Rollins chimingly vocalizes their differing opinions on sportsmanship in baseball versus football, with Pollack expressing a preference for passion in sports over self-centered displays: "I love emotion in sports. That's what I love" ([06:23]).

Main Segment: Top 10 Defensive Lines in College Football

[07:19 - 16:26]
The core of the episode dives into Max Chadwick's PFF ranking of the top 10 defensive lines in college football. Cody lists the rankings, starting with Clemson and Alabama in second place. Pollack immediately voices his disagreement with the latter half of the top 10, advocating for Texas and Oklahoma to occupy higher positions due to their elite edge rushers like Trey Moore, Colin Simmons ([09:01]), and Mason Thomas.

Pollack emphasizes the importance of edge rushers in disrupting quarterbacks and balances this with critiques of Alabama's depth and game-breaking potential. He states, "I don't see game breakers and guys that just..." ([15:04]). Additionally, Pollack praises Florida's defensive lineman Kayla Banks, labeling him "the best interior lineman in the country" ([17:47]).

Defensive Strategies and Evolution in CFB

[16:26 - 33:22]
The conversation progresses to defensive schemes and trends shaping college football. Brent Rollins introduces concepts like the "three-high" safety formation and hybrid defensive fronts. Pollack and Cody Alexander discuss the shift from traditional zone defenses to more aggressive, adaptable systems that can counter modern offensive strategies.

Pollack explains the necessity of hybrid fronts: "We are going to give you an extra Gap..." ([26:12]). They explore how defenses are evolving to handle versatile offenses, with Pollack highlighting the adaptability needed to counter spread offenses and mobile quarterbacks.

Listener Quiz: Defensive Preferences

[35:02 - 50:36]
To engage listeners, Pollack and Rollins participate in a defensive preferences quiz posed by Cody Alexander. The questions include preferences for quarterback formations (under center vs. gun), shotgun vs. pistol vs. offset back, receiver sets (bunch vs. spread), and quarterback types (running threat vs. elite passer).

Key takeaways:

• Under Center vs. Gun: Both hosts prefer quarterbacks under center for predictability in pass defense ([47:12], [47:34]).
• Pistol vs. Offset Back: Mixed preferences with Pollack favoring shotgun for versatility ([48:21], [48:47]).
• Bunch vs. Spread Sets: Both hosts express a preference against bunch formations due to defensive complications ([49:06]).
• Quarterback Type: A consensus leans towards preferring mobile quarterbacks to leverage their running ability while developing their passing skills ([50:07], [50:36]).

Advanced Defensive Concepts and Coaching Insights

[50:36 - 56:23]
Pollack and Rollins delve deeper into advanced defensive tactics, discussing how modern defenses incorporate elements from both college and NFL strategies. They reference specific coaches and defensive innovators, such as Baz Baxter from Baylor and Jim Knowles from Penn State, highlighting their contributions to evolving defensive architectures.

Pollack remarks on the necessity of "big boy football" and the decline of traditional three-high defenses in favor of more robust, adaptable fronts. He emphasizes the importance of interior linemen and the integration of modular defensive concepts to keep up with offensive innovations ([33:22], [39:26]).

Closing Remarks and Future Episodes

[56:23 - End]
As the episode wraps up, Pollack and Rollins reflect on the state of college football defenses amidst player movement and NIL effects. They tease upcoming episodes featuring guests like Brett Bielema and Kirby along with discussions on the impending NFL season.

Pollack underscores the complexity and constant evolution of defensive strategies: "Defense is the hardest to play because you're always..." ([55:11]). The hosts promote continued engagement through subscriptions and previews of future content, maintaining an enthusiastic outlook on the dynamic landscape of college football defense.

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Notable Quotes:

• David Pollack [06:23]: "I love emotion in sports. That's what I love. I love people that care about what they do."
• David Pollack [09:01]: "What is the most important position on the defensive line? The guy that affects the quarterback the most."
• Brent Rollins [26:12]: "We are going to start adding tight ends...forcing the defense to really think about how they're attacking it with personnel."
• David Pollack [33:22]: "What you started seeing with them was the movement away from basically plugging the B gaps."
• Cody Alexander [47:12]: "Would you rather see the QB under center or in the gun?"

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This episode offers an in-depth analysis of current defensive strategies in college football, critiques traditional ranking systems, and explores the future trajectory of defensive playbooks. Hosts Pollack and Rollins, alongside expert Cody Alexander, provide valuable insights for listeners looking to deepen their understanding of defensive football dynamics.

Transcript

[David Pollack]

What's up, everybody? David Pollack here of C Ball. Get Ball podcast. I hope you like it, man. Be sure to follow the show Wherever you subscribe, YouTube or any of your other platforms. What up, everybody? Welcome on in to Seaball. Get Ball. I'm your host, David Pollack. Brent Rollins joins me as always, and, man, it's. It's getting closer and closer. I know the excitement's starting to rise. I love here on C Ball. Get Ball. We had the offensive guy, coach Dan Casey, drawing up plays in his own little office. Brent, it was really nice. Comfortable, nobody blitzing him, no defense, and every play looks like a million bucks. And touchdown.

[Brent Rollins]

Phenomenal.

[David Pollack]

Yeah, touchdown left and right. And now I think everybody will be excited to know Cody Alexander. I've known this dude for years and years. Just knows defense inside and out. And. And we'll talk about defensive trends in college football, what to expect from your squad and your team. And you've heard so much talk about three safeties over the years and the evolution of that. Like, get into him about how much we're seeing that, where he sees football going. I think it'll be good. But, Brent, the golf game got a treat this past week. This past. A couple days. This past couple days went to a course in. In Vidalia, Georgia, and it was absolutely a slice of heaven. The course was insane. And I got my ace destroyed by the course. Like, I. Like.

[Brent Rollins]

I like to hear you say that.

[David Pollack]

Actually ruined by the course. Like, absolutely no fun. Wanted to throw clubs. But the. But the. One of the biggest slice of heavens I've ever seen. Dude. Like, it's. It's. It's unbelievable. It's. Oh, hoopy. It's. It's a. It's a Vidalia onion if you've ever seen it. Like, yeah, it's out. It's out in the middle of nowhere, Brent. Not a single car, not a single person, a cart, anything. I saw the whole two days there. Unbelievable food. They have zebras, they have wildebeest. Like, it's. It's just as far as you can see land. And one of the most beautiful golf courses in food and entertainment. It was absolutely. Aside from playing, like, an absolute humpy, it was one of the most enjoyable. I felt like I was on a deserted island. It was.

[Cody Alexander]

I like that you get humbled every now and then. It's good. It's good to hear you humbled a little bit. Like, you. You had your US Open experience then, bro.

[David Pollack]

When I say humbled, like, I mean, it was triple digits. Oh, God. Yeah. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Like the problem is you hit it and if soon as you miss a fairway, it's sand. Yeah, I'm punching out and I'm punching out, out of sand. And I don't hit the ball. Clearly, I just don't hit the ball. Like, I don't. He picked the ball clean and. And it was another dink. Another dink. And I'm throwing a club. I didn't throw a club, but I wanted to. I wanted to curse too. I didn't curse either, but still was a good time. But you sent, you sent an article, Brent, in a text feed to me and I want to get into it too.

[Cody Alexander]

Like, well, hey, so first we got two things. First, two quick facts. And we love all those that like subscribe, do all those things and we get some comments and some feedbacks. So a question for you. Do you know anybody named Bobby that likes you? Because this was a lovely comment that we got on the Apple podcast. So bad. Does any Bobby like David Pollock? And I was actually trying to think.

[David Pollack]

I don't.

[Cody Alexander]

I mean, maybe there's a Bobby in Macon or that you know or somewhere, but do you know a Bobby that likes you?

[David Pollack]

I'm sure there's a Bobby out there. So Bobby, Hey, Bobby, the bus driver with Game Day loved me. Okay. Okay.

[Cody Alexander]

That's right.

[David Pollack]

He was a dude. Bobby absolutely loved me. So, hey, we appreciate your all that your, your one star review. Thank you very much for your support of the show. Hey, listen, we'll take the reviews even if they're bad, I guess we'll still take them head on.

[Cody Alexander]

Maybe constructive criticism.

[David Pollack]

Yep.

[Cody Alexander]

And then one other quick thing is I know you haven't been following it, but did you see a lot of the discourse and conversation about college baseball over the weekend?

[David Pollack]

Absolutely not.

[Cody Alexander]

Okay, so Coastal Carolina's coach, like after their game or their weekend came out and was like basically berating the Florida coach. And there's just a lot of discourse back and forth with the teams. Bat flipping, taunting pitchers, like yelling at the other dugout, all that kind of stuff. It's kind of bringing the emotion football esque in motion to baseball.

[David Pollack]

Okay.

[Cody Alexander]

And so much so that, that your buddy that, that I think was it. Was he at the golf tournament? Chipper Jones.

[David Pollack]

Yeah.

[Cody Alexander]

So Chipperson said he spent quite a bit of time watching college baseball this weekend. He's only going to watch a few teams from here on out. Reason they have coaches that respect the game. Their opponents demand the same of their players. Any team that doesn't wear the uni correctly taunts the other team and has a coach that condones this behavior is a disgrace to the game. Big fan of coaching, all at Coastal Carolina. That's who he's rooting for now. So my question to you, who is a fan of all the petty and all the, all that kind of stuff? Are you a fan of that in baseball with the pitcher, like, striking somebody out and, you know, doing all sorts of things? The other dugout, the bat flips, all that kind of taunting? Like, is that. What do you think, by the way? Also, we had someone that listener, consistent listener on YouTube that asked that same question, was curious about your opinion on.

[David Pollack]

That, on the baseball. Yep. Well, I'm not a fan of baseball ever. So, I mean, that's a tough, that's a tough ask, regardless, you know? You know, I remember the Georgia pitcher early in the season. Remember when he did that little, like.

[Cody Alexander]

Stuck his tongue out?

[David Pollack]

Yeah. I mean, I guess here's the thing. I, I, I'm okay with it as long as we understand, like, I'm not okay with, like, the hitting. The hitting kids, like, beaming people. I'm not okay with that. I don't want to see that. But if everybody's gonna celebrate, then everybody's gonna celebrate, and that's kind of part of it. But I, I don't. Do I, do I love it? No. Do I care if you bat flip? Absolutely not. Like, like, I don't mind you bat flipping now. I don't want you to walk 17 steps and then bat flip. Like, hit a home run.

[Cody Alexander]

That happens locally when you start walking.

[David Pollack]

All the way down the baseline and staring at the other people and flipping the bat like, I don't love that, Brent. I don't. Yes. I'm the king of petty, and I love rivalries. I love hatred. Here's the thing I love, I love emotion in sports. That's what I love. I love people. I love people that care about what they do. If you're a person that's a me, me, me person all the time, I don't love that. I'm not the person that loves that kind of emotion. But if it's adrenaline, it's emotion, it's celebrating with your teammates, it's Lane Kiffin calling people out like, it's other people calling people out like, I'm here for, for all of that. I just don't love it when it's always like, look at me, look at me. And, and I just, I guess that's where I would get lost a little bit.

[Cody Alexander]

Okay. That we had a listener question there and it was a topic and Chipper was at the golf tournament and tweeted about that. So I thought we'd hit that real quick. But now it's a defensive oriented show.

[David Pollack]

Yeah.

[Cody Alexander]

And obviously we're talking to Cody a little later, who, by the way, just a great reference at the underscore coach. Underscore A on Twitter for you guys that need to follow him. But pff, my colleagues at pff, Max Chadwick, that does a lot of the college football stuff, put out his ranking of the top 10 defensive lines in college football and I'm gonna run through it and you get to sort of wrap on who it is that you think is maybe overrated in that ranking and. Or you're not agreeing with. So at one they had Clemson and maybe you want me give you a couple players that kind of highlight there or. No, just the team.

[David Pollack]

Yeah, sure. You can talk about a couple of those. Yeah.

[Cody Alexander]

Peter Woods, TJ Parker. Yep. Bama was their second ranked with Overton and Keenan. Texas Tech with four new starters. By the way, projected starters all through in the portal was third, Florida fourth. SAP and Banks the primary guys there. Penn State with denied. Dennis Sutton, it was fifth and then Michigan sixth, Georgia seventh, Christian Miller. And then that's a great question. After that, Miami with Reuben Bain at 8. Oklahoma, which is one I think that you're gonna, based on last week or the other day, be a little higher on with Halton and Mason Thomas at the edge and then Texas at 10. So that was their top 10. Then they mentioned Oregon as an honorable mention. So what stood out to you about the top 10 of those rankings? And first of all, you big time have disagreement.

[David Pollack]

First of all, I love, I love PFF stuff. I think they do a great job. I really, I really enjoy their coverage. That being said, I couldn't disagree more. I think the bat. I think the last half of the top 10, Brent, should be the top half. Like, okay, let me ask you a question, Brent. What is the most important position on the defensive line?

[Cody Alexander]

Edge rusher and. Or edge rusher.

[David Pollack]

The guy. The guy that affects the quarterback the most. They can play the run, they can play the pass. Correct. Right. Like that's the. Those.

[Cody Alexander]

Sometimes it's interior, but whoever affects the pass the most. Yes.

[David Pollack]

Those guys are the guys that are getting drafted really high for a reason. Right. Like those guys are getting taken high. Texas has the best one, two punch in the country at that spot. Like Texas is going to be absolute heck on wheels out out outside on the edge. I mean, Trey Moore, Colin Simmons. Colin Simmons was scratching the surface of what he's going to be. He didn't play that many snaps. Like he, he wasn't like the guy playing every snap. He was growing into his role as a freshman and a freak. And, and, and I think here's the thing about Texas. Texas has Texas and Oklahoma to me are 1A, 1B at, at, at, at best. Which is, which is ironic, by the way, because, because Big 12 coming into the league, line of scrimmage league. I think it's Texas and Oklahoma who have the best two defensive linemen in the best two defensive line groups in the sec. And that, that's crazy that they're way down this list. I don't, I don't understand that. When you can give me more. And Simmons coming off the edge. And here's where I'll, I'll, I'll understand. With Texas, the defensive tackle group, Brent, there's not a lot of experience. I get it. I 100% get it.

[Cody Alexander]

Let's transfer.

[David Pollack]

They went out and got bodies and they got some guy. By the way, Justice. Terry's gonna be a freak. I mean he's gonna be an absolute freak. He's, he's one of the most highly recruited kids in college football. Defensive tackle, one of the most highly paid kids. Last year from Texas, they invested money in him. He's a defensive tackle. That's gonna buy, I guarantee you will be contributing by the end of the year. No doubt about it. But, but again, the edges to me is where I think you're still going to get Shaw. January, you're going to get Brevard. All those guys inside are going to be more than enough to hold their own to make plays. But the edges is elite. And then when I go to Oklahoma, I, I, I, where's the weakness, Brent? Like I, I see depth and I see interior play. I see edge play with, with my boy on the outside. When you watched, when you watched him, Arman Mason, 34, was flying all over the place. You know, last season, he, I see a system and I said this the other day, a system I want to play in like a system that's going to be aggressive, attacking all over the place, twisting, stunting, moving. Brent Venables, who won't sit still, he'll be on the sideline like this, trying to get on the field with his get back guy and his defense is going to play like it. Like, I don't see any way in heck how you have one, two Three, four other guys, you know, four other teams in the SEC that are better than those two defensive lines. Am I crazy?

[Cody Alexander]

One, two, three and three. That they had ahead. Three SEC teams they had ahead of them, Bama, Florida and Georgia.

[David Pollack]

You buying that?

[Cody Alexander]

I agree. No, the one for me is that I, I, the Texas part mainly just singularly because of Simmons. I think Simmons could end up being the best defensive player in all of college football this year. Like he's, he's that good and going to be that good. But the question for me with, with Oklahoma is do you get a five star sophomore leap from David Stone? The Stone kid coming back?

[David Pollack]

Yeah.

[Cody Alexander]

Does he take a leap, play more snaps, become more impactful? Because in really looking at the entirety of this list, that's where you, it's the depth. And then also do you get the recruiting leaps in the second year or you get a big influx of talent from a five star like Clemson? Yeah, we have woods and Parker and they got a transfer by the way. Purdue transfer will help but they got Amari Adams, that's a five star freshman. You know, D line guys, those guys usually play, they just do because they're usually some. Only so few of those guys on earth and, and they play. Miami is the other team that if they get a big time leap from their five stars a year ago with Scott Blunt, with Bane already there, they could sort of elevate up in there. But the one for me that was a big like I didn't get why Alabama's too. No, I, I just, I see guys like Overton is good, Keenan is a very good player, great run run defender after that. I mean you've got, I, I don't know that I see sort of true impact guys and the depth for me with them is something that I don't know that I see.

[David Pollack]

Well, here's what I didn't see when I and Brett we watch because we're nerds, we watch as much tape as anybody. I didn't, I don't see the game breakers for, for, for Alabama anymore. I don't see, I don't see the twitch either. So I don't have twitch on the edge that's going to overwhelm me with speed. And I don't have game breakers and guys that just like man they had so many ace kicking Jesse's for so many years that whipped the guy's ace in front of them like just absolutely ruined their lives, took their lunch money and, and made people starve, like made people go hungry. I mean they were they were unbelievable. And I don't. If, if you ask me to rank the, the defensive lines in the sec, Bama's not in the top four. Bama's not. I think Tennessee's defensive front's better than Alabama's. Like you, you saw it a year ago. Like, they're not going to have the depth, but they've got bodies with twitch and big boys that they can rotate in. And I just. I, I don't think Alabama is going to be bad. Don't get it twisted. Bama fans, like, you're gonna have a good defensive line and there's some guys that could take off, but yes. I, I don't think you, you take this loot group and I mean, I, I don't, I don't. I don't think.

[Cody Alexander]

Another one for me, Georgia. I don't, like. I don't know how you put some of that. Like, give me Colin Simmons over what Georgia has returning along the defensive line. Like, I know I've got Christian Miller, who's a great run defender, elite run defender, but doesn't give you much as a pass rusher right now. And outside of that, it's people who haven't played. Yes. Well, you're going to have to potentially depend on the army transfer Medozi a lot.

[David Pollack]

Which, which, which will play and contribute and be a big deal, which I think I agree. And here's the thing. If you're asking me to project and Jordan Hall. I've seen flashes from Jordan Hall. Like, I've said enough. Huh?

[Cody Alexander]

Flashes. That's the thing. He hasn't been able to stay healthy.

[David Pollack]

Flashes for him that I go, okay, he could, he could be a good player. But I also saw a bunch of flashes from Warren Brinson, but it was very up and down, like. So I think that if you take into account, like we're projecting a little bit, but like, I don't have to project for Texas. I know. And I don't even get Anthony Hill, by the way, who's a, Who's a dynamite guy in the middle that can blitz and you can do all kinds of things. But I mean, Georgia, you know, Gabe Harris is a guy that, that has played some snaps that you're going to throw in there. That's. That's a good player, good technique. But, you know, and I think you have, obviously with the transfer, you have an edge player, you have the inside, so you have a little bit of balance. But I don't.

[Cody Alexander]

A couple other questions for you on this. So one other question. With this is Texas Tech with literally four new guys. Do you think four new guys? Is that something that you can say, all right, I feel good about because they're great players or is that going to be, hey, over time maybe they get a little better.

[David Pollack]

Here's what's awesome about being a dumb defensive lineman. And I am a defensive lineman. So I say this with all the love in my heart. I don't need to work together like offensive linemen do. Like offensive linemen on every snap, dude, you have to know when you're step all stepping the same direction of who's going to get to the linebacker quick. And working together is really, really important. Defensive lineman, if I get off the rock and I win my individual matchups, like, I can do really well. And that's why they bring in Lee Hunter. Like, who's one of the better guys up front? They got Stanford's David Bailey. They got edged. They got in the middle. They got guys that listen that are. That have played a lot of ball. And I'm not worried about them blending together. So yes, Texas Tech's going to be a problem. Like, they're going to be really fun to watch. And then I got to sneak this in, Brent, because I don't know that people understand. Like, if you're looking for, for guys across college football and guys that are ballers like that are going to dominate. Have you seen Kayla Banks?

[Cody Alexander]

Like that dude, interior alignment at Florida, right?

[Brent Rollins]

He.

[David Pollack]

He's the best interior lineman in the country. Like, that dude is an absolute animal. Like, and I think Florida is a team that because of that and because of their guys that they have, they've got a bunch of different options. I think Florida's another defensive line that they're at 4 on this list, but they're with Banks. That's a baller that I know he's going to be. Tyreek Sapp is an edge defender that's going to be good. Like, they're another team that I already look at that I think is, is. Is really, really good and really solid and will be fun to watch. Penn State was on the list too.

[Cody Alexander]

Yeah. One more question before we get. Get to Cody here in a sec. Is there anybody not on this list where you. That you had your eyes on that you thought might. Hey, I, I know these guys are coming back and I like this group coming back because to me there's potentially two and maybe even one. Just one.

[David Pollack]

Who you got? Who you got?

[Brent Rollins]

The.

[Cody Alexander]

The Iowa Hawkeyes with Hercutt and Graves and by the Way the entirety of their defense. It's an old man defense. It is red shirt senior, Red shirt senior senior, Red shirt junior. It is all experience guys. I think they have one guy with less than three years experience.

[David Pollack]

I feel like that is every year.

[Cody Alexander]

And the fact that they are good defensively every year when is inept as their offense is is just amazing.

[David Pollack]

And every couple years you see that, you see that offensive or that defensive lineman draft in the first round like you, you see it, you do see that. So I'm with you on that.

[Cody Alexander]

So maybe playing defense when your offense stinks that you know a little bit of that maybe, maybe this, this, this guy here knows a little bit about it too. So.

[David Pollack]

Yeah.

[Cody Alexander]

Let you introduce him.

[David Pollack]

Yeah. Cody Alexander matchquarters.com He's got the new podcast. Cody. I didn't, I didn't know the pipes were going to be. We're going to be used for, for good. I tell you what matchquarters.com dude, he's been making videos for years and he's used solve it but now let's talk ball. Right? Cody, you got your, you got your own spot to talk some defense and unapologetic about how great defense is.

[Brent Rollins]

That's, that's right. I am the defensive nerd. I'm like the one, the. There's a few of us out there.

[David Pollack]

Yeah, he's, he's got the Baylor hat on. I like the, the rocking the Baylor lid over there. You spent some, you spent some time at Baylor. But Cody when, when you start doing this your thing and you've been doing this now for so many years. Like if you look him up you'll see all the Twitter stuff and you'll see excuse me, you'll see plays, you'll, you'll learn as much, you'll learn as much about defense as you want to. What, what is, where is college football going Cody? Where do you see what did you see last year? You think that are trends that are you going to continue to see in the game?

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah, I think look, you have to almost be one of the best things is you have to look back in order to go forward. I'm a big believer in that time is a flat circle. I the my favorite true detective Rustin Cole when he's smashing the beer can like time's a flat circle and the difference is is as we go through into the future we have these different iterations, different creativities. The you know we're post spread era now officially in college football. I think if you run a Y off offense that is based off of zone, you're probably going to be in trouble. We've got.

[David Pollack]

All right, Cody, I had to do this with Coach Dan Casey. We're going to do it with you, too. What does Y off mean? You got. You got to be stupid. Simple. Okay, this is. This is C ball. Get ball, baby. This is. This is. Explain it granularly.

[Brent Rollins]

Yes. If you have. If you have a tight end that is off of the ball and he is kind of attached to that tackle, or he's in behind the tackle, which we call a sniffer because it looks like he's sniffing the tackle's butt. Just make it sound simple for the kids. You basically have a move tight end. Okay, this is the old Gibbs move tight end created back in the 80s to make sure that LT couldn't sack quarterbacks. That's what this move tight end came. And then teams were like, well, wait a second. We. We don't want to call you a fullback because you won't come to my college. We'll call you tight end. We'll give you a thousand plays in a season, but we'll only throw you the ball five times. I'll never forget Don Brown in 2017 talking about he doesn't care about tight ends in Big Ten because he showed this list and it was like tight ends caught like 20 balls in the Big Ten. Like, this is like just Ty Warren.

[David Pollack]

Caught 3,000 last year.

[Brent Rollins]

Exactly. So I think, like Bowers. Yes. And so that's part. That's part of it, of the evolution is like, if you are running essentially what we know as like a JV high school offense at this point, which is you're running a slotted tight end, you're running a lot of split zone, meaning that he's working across. You're running simple inside zone, where you're pushing the. You're pushing the middle of the. Of that you're running, you know, the West Virginia zone. Read from 10 personnel. Like, if you're doing those things, you're going to be running into a lot of problems in college football. And so what we're seeing really is what the Big 12 started about five years ago, which is we're going to start adding tight ends in here. We're going to start doing it with. We're going to have a traditional Y, which means that where he's going to have his hand in the dirt. So the thing about George Kittle, right? And then we're going to have an F, which would be like a Brock Bowers or a Kelsey, where he's going to move around everywhere. He can line up a receiver, he can do a bunch of different things. And what that does is it's forcing the defense now to really think about how they're attacking it with personnel. Are we going to stay light? Because that's what we've been doing now for the last decade. I mean, it's the famous Kirby Smart. If you have, if you're tied into coaching Millennial Oklahoma. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Millennial Oklahoma. He, you know, he had the famous thing down here and I'm, I'm in Dallas, down here in Texas. He was a coaching school here in Texas where he had it. And when he showed 202009 Alabama and their weights, they were a 3, 4. The Mike linebacker was 265 pounds. If you're 265 pounds and you're playing mike backer right now, you're probably on a losing team. That kid's playing edge. He's got his hand in the dirt now. So, like going. Basically Everybody shedded like £20. And that's because everybody started spreading out even in, even in the, even in the sec. And so now that's. The pendulum is swinging back and we're seeing it in the NFL more 12 personnel. 12 personnel is essentially the new 21 personnel. So if you're sitting there and I'll get a. 12 personnel means one running back, two tight ends. It 21 personnel means we have one tight end, we have a fullback, and we have a. We have a running back. So the traditional eye formation that probably, if you remember the. I grew up in Kansas City, so the power eye of Nebraska a lot. 21 person. I mean, name, name a fullback in, in any year and he's probably playing in the NFL. So it's like that now changed to we have to get hybrid. What that's doing defensively is it's really pushing how you're going to structure your defense. And I think the three high revolution that we had starting in 2018, they coincided with Georgia and Alabama running and really Aranda at LSU running a lot of where we're pinching the defense inside. We call it a tight front. Mint packages. The coaching lingo for the Sabanites out there, we're going to pack the B gaps because that's going to kill the spread. The problem that you're finding now is not only are we adding a tight end who's versatile, can catch the ball, we're adding another one. So we're creating an extra Gap, we have better angles for you. Aranda talks about this at Baylor all the time because, I mean, he's essentially like the tight front guru. But you're creating angles for down blocks. Gap scheme is coming back, right? Gap scheme is just means that we're pulling an offensive lineman, right? So now because we have the angles, because everybody's packed inside now we have better angles we're making the defense is essentially inviting the offense to just down block everybody. And so that's where we are right now in terms of if we're going to go forward, that's going to be the battle.

[Cody Alexander]

So the question that. Actually this is a conversation that Davey and I had a couple years back, 2022 with Georgia. And the, the question was, and I want you to answer it from a defensive perspective, would you rather defend an offense that had Ohio State's sort of trio of wide receivers or would you rather defend an offense that had Brock Bowers and Darnell Washington as, as the two tight ends?

[Brent Rollins]

I'll take the receivers all day long because you're not creating extra gaps. And, and Brock Bowers is, I call him a 3D player because if you're off the ball, you can do three things. You can slice across, you can go vertical or you can go out into the flat and you can do anything. And so now it's really pressuring me. Look, if you put three, if I know I'm getting 11 personnel and you're tight end is just essentially a glorified tackle, I can do different things with my boundary safety, which means to the boundaries or away from the passing strength. I can do, I can do, I can solve problems with coverage and I can handle the run game. I think defenses have become really accustomed to playing in light boxes, which means that you have, you have basically six defenders, right? Six or less. And defensive.

[Cody Alexander]

For the record, by the way, Davey chose the, he wanted from an offensive perspective. He chose the receivers. I chose the tight ends back in the day when we had that conversation. So I feel like I'm on the right side of that argument now. Now nowadays.

[David Pollack]

And just because Cody said so doesn't mean that you're on the right side of the argument. But anyways. Continue, Cody.

[Brent Rollins]

Well, just the problem that you have now if they're going to have two tight ends on there, is that they're going to.

[David Pollack]

There.

[Brent Rollins]

Not only have they created extra gaps in that run game that you're going to have to fit. I'm, I'm now going to have to make a conscious decision of are we going to have to change personnel. Can my nickel or star depending on how you want to label that. Essentially your third db. That's right there. He's kind of your. The old school Sam linebacker. How is he going to fit into this whole thing? Because the problem that we went through went through a phase where everybody wanted to run Nick Saban's defense and want to run Kirby Smart's defense. And so what do you do? You run and everybody want to run. It's called Cover 7, which is essentially a man match. Mean that you know, we're the moment the receiver switch. We got them. We got them wherever they go. The problem with that and if you go back historically, what has really given these defenses problems. It's running quarterbacks. It's because essentially when you run this defense, you're running two man. At the end of the day Carl Scott's probably giving me laser eyes somewhere. But you, you turn into two man it. If everybody, if everything works out, it turns to me well, what kills two man running quarterbacks? What do we not see anymore in football? It's I think it was like 1% in the NFL last year, which is amazing. It's like a nominal. Nobody runs it anymore. So you really that the tied in to me is much more dangerous because I can figure out the passing game at this point. Like I can figure out coverage. We can do things. But you give me an extra tight end that creates problems for me in the box which then is going to create problems with me on the back end because I'm gonna have to solve those issues.

[David Pollack]

Yeah. Jackson Smith and Jigba, Chris Olave and Garrett Wilson. Okay. Hey, you can have your Darnell Washington who is a blocking glorified tackle and Brock Bowers. Call me crazy, but. But I'll take my chances with those guys. What about, what about ways now that you're starting to see with like hybrid fronts? Like ways now to kind of like I can kind of play multiple things, do multiple things, have different body types and play different hybrid fronts up front.

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah, I think Georgia really started this trend and you start seeing it with. They got, you know, a couple years ago they had essentially had eight NFL bodies. And so I know people are like, well how can you start there when they're kind of the anomaly in this. But what, what you started seeing with them was the movement away from basically plugging the B gaps. What if we went ahead and had a four man line but we played it differently than what traditionally we've done in an over or an under Front defense, meaning where we're setting the three technique, meaning we're not just going to single gap. We're not going to jet the front. We're not just going to have these guys just fly through gaps. If you ever watch the Browns, Schwartz is one of those that's like. I mean, sometimes J. Okay, I think he's blitzing and he's not. It's just, he's open. It's the old school open window. Shut it right? You get your linebacker. I have a gap, it's open. I'm shooting through it right now. Everything now is slowed down because you have RPOs. Everything. And really this starts with, I think Chip Kelly and Art Briles of everything is a run. Everything I'll never forget, like I'm watching Bryce Petty do. It's empty and he's doing a play fake. You're like, what is that doing? But analytics too has really helped us out at all because now we know, like any kind of play action, any kind of run action. I quit teaching my safeties to read the tackle probably around 2017, 2016. I just quit doing it because everything.

[David Pollack]

It used to be 100. It used to be run, run, pass ratio. Read the tackle and.

[Brent Rollins]

And you, you read that. And so to me, that what you're talking about with the hybrid fronts is we are going to give you an even front, meaning there's going to be four down in, but we're going to play odd spacing. Now, that's a coach term. What odd spacing means is we are going to plug those B gaps. So it goes back to our conversation when we were talking about the tight front. We're just. Now, instead of putting anchors in the B gap, we're going to create friction and we're going to make it slow down the offensive lineman. We're going to work to. We're going to work into those B gaps to close them off of the blocking of the offense. So essentially, if the offense wants to option us, we'll option them back. But we're going to do it with these big physical linemen. And that's why you just. And the other point of this too is we have become a passing game. This game is built on quarterbacks. I mean, think about it. We spend more time talking about quarterbacks and sacks than we talk about almost anything else. And so what that means is that's where we are in this game. So even though we had kind of this revolution of run game in the NFL, it still comes down and predicated on what can that quarterback do? And if I can't get to the quarterback? Because what's the one thing. And, Paula, you play D line, you probably understand it's really hard to pass rush from B gap. Really hard. It's not easy, like, unless you're stunting to it. And even then, it's not really. It's not. So what ends up happening is now I'm having to manufacture what's called build a bearfront, right? So I have. I have two guys in B gap. I got a nose. I've got an edge on one side, and I'm going to have to blitz somebody on. On the other side because I don't have any kind of pass rush. So what you ended up with is, yeah, sure, we killed the run game. We're essentially playing drop eight on every. Every single snap. But in order for us to even challenge on any kind of passing down, we have to send a fifth. Well, what does that do? That changes the math and the coverage. And so what you're talking about with these hybrid fronts is I can get the best of both worlds. I have two edges, and I have these guys inside that I can just pull as a string, right? And we can move them around. We can even do different things to create that pass rush.

[David Pollack]

And we do it from, like, we do it in high school, too, Cody, like, from the double cinco approach, like, where you can. I'm a big gap player, but if it's pass, I'm going to cop well. Like, okay, which means I'm going to contain. But it's like, okay, let's play the percentages here. Like, it's not a. It's like, I literally had to tell my kids at some point. I'm like, okay, y' all are nerds. Because I have a bunch of smart kids. I'm like, on third and 15, what's the probability of run? And they're like, not good. I'm like, we'll react to the run. Play the pass, like, right, like. And so it's just. It's. Y' all will never believe how much. And Cody's doing a great job. And Brent, you take the next question. But, like, going into what you have to read, what you have to see, with all the stuff that they do now and the bells and whistles on offense, man, it's. It's harder than ever to play defense.

[Brent Rollins]

Yes.

[Cody Alexander]

I was going to say before I asked that next question, though, how much I've learned from Cody and message and back and forth and sending plays like, hey, because I, I think I understand defense but it's learning to speak the language of defense that I've had to evolve sort of over time. I know the language of offense, so that's one that's been great. So let's, let's talk about specifically into college football and the thing, the concepts that you're talking about, who, who is doing them well, who are you watching? And you're like, okay, this, this is dialed in. These guys are in terms of how greatly coached. Maybe they don't have the talent that the top five roster has, but they are being coached insanely well. And this guy's maybe the next either either an under currently underrated or the next up and coming Decor Nader head coach type guy.

[Brent Rollins]

I think what you saw at Colorado was really impressive where you essentially had an offensive scheme come in, I mean a NFL scheme come and he kind of cleaned it up. Now they played, they played a ton of man coverage but they were doing some different things on the back end of where they were essentially getting into Tampa 2, which it's not 20 years ago. Tampa too. Now we're changing the picture. We're getting different, we're getting different ways of doing it. Think of Tampa two is X's on a board. I'm going to draw 11 X's on the board. I'm going to have four pass rushers but the seven left, I can manipulate those guys. As long as he can physically get there, we can move those around. It's called a non traditional Tampa and that's another trend that we're starting to see a lot of times too is we're going to play a lot of COVID one. I thought he did a good job. Vaudec just hired the linebacker coach from the Cardinals. That if you haven't watched the Cardinals, which I probably have not. No one, not a lot of people watch Cardinals unless you're on the west coast. But they have one of the most unique defenses that you are going to watch and it plays three high. It has a five man front and they do a bunch of stuff on the back end. And Buddha Baker is the reason why. Well, they just, they, you know, they just hired him to come in and kind of be that guy. I'm trying to, I'm blanking on the name. There's a lot of guys like from the Mac. The Mac is actually a defensive incubator. A lot of people kind of poo poo on the Mac because it is. The offenses are bad but the matches is when they, when they go play Like Bowling Green for instance, when they went and played Texas A M and they went and played like I'm trying, I'm trying to think who else up Penn State. I mean they punched, they punched them over way and they were doing things that we just were talking about. And so I think like Toledo current Kearns in or probably pronounced his name wrong. But Toledo does some really cool things with the four man front. Playing from pretty much five across on the back end, running a lot of quarters, doing a lot of things. Like those guys are guys that you probably don't realize that are really good and they're doing some things that you know, probably are not getting the attention around. Whereas like what we have like Ron Robert, you were talking about Florida and their defensive line. Like Ron Roberts basically, basically when he was at Baylor before he left, started doing all of the things that we just talked about. Like essentially calling these, I call them reduction fronts because they're just moving, moving guys, but it's slow and they're doing that and they're building odd spacing with four man lines and they're doing a lot of these, these pressures that have become really popular. You simulated pressures where it looks like we're really rushing five or more, but we're not. We're actually dropping a defensive end in. It's, it's essentially a safer fire zone. Most people know what a fire zone is with a guy off the edge and then you're dropping the Dan, you got three under, three deep. So to me there's, there's a lot of guys that are doing it, but then there's guys that have been around that are still doing, that are still doing it at a, at a really, really high level. I think Womack at Alabama is going to get it figured out. He's been doing a really, really good job for a long time doing it simple. I'm, I'm excited to see what Jim Knowles is going to do at Penn State. You know, no one really knows what was going on. You know, you hear different bits and pieces from different people. But the three high four down stuff, I've heard more people trying to get that film coaching wise, but then also just from people around that are like, hey, what is this all about? Like how did this work? How did this function? I think what he's doing, because I do think that we're, we're kind of past where a three high defense is kind of a viable defense. There really wasn't a three high defense in the college football playoffs. And you know, we could Throw that out as arbitrary. But I really think, like, you have to play big boy football anymore at that level, which means you're going to have to put four or five guys down on the line. So experimenting with that. I think the three high stuff is really difficult. We just talked about getting into 12 personnel. I mean, if you talk to anybody with an odd stack, the first thing the offense coordinator tries to do is get into 12 personnel against an odd stack because it just changes the math for everybody. And so that those are kind of the things that I see college wise, that. That are kind of blowing up.

[David Pollack]

All right, so when he says three high, that means three safeties.

[Brent Rollins]

Yes. Three say Iowa State, Kansas State.

[David Pollack]

Yeah, you saw a ton of that in the Big 12 because the passing attacks were so lethal for a while, but then it started to creep and you saw it at different SEC schools and you've seen it all over college football now since 2018. It's really grown. Okay, Cody. If I'm building a defense right now in today's football, I watch Georgia, Georgia Tech, and I say Buster Faulkner and I watch what he did to Kirby's defense. I say, when I'm an offensive coordinator and I know where you're going to be and I know how you like to play your assignments and I know how you like to communicate. I think it's. I think when. Now that the depth is not as great across the leagues anymore because people are transferring, they're not sitting anymore and developing like, they're just not. So you. I don't think you're ever going to have a wave again like you have at Georgia where you can rotate guys in. Like, I just don't. I don't think that's going to happen again in college football with the system that we have. Like, how does. How do you evolve and still be a pressure team or still be an aggressive team, but still play some of these fronts that you've seen over the years. If you're Kirby and. And obviously Nick did it for a long time with. With different body types. Like, are you doing that anymore?

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah, I think you become. You essentially become what we've seen with. With. With Georgia in particular. And this is going to be sacrilegious to the Sabanites, but we are not playing Rip Liz on a majority of the downs anymore. So we're not playing cover three anymore. We're playing a lot of quarters. We're playing a lot of five man pressures, but we're doing it with quarters behind it. You know, Steve Spagnola with the Chiefs, this is one of those trickle down. We always talk about the trickle up from college kind of up to pro, but we don't necessarily talk about some of these trickle downs. You know, the wide zone, essentially the Shanahan offense, McVeigh offense has kind of come down into the college pistol being added to it. People kind of can get to this in a bunch of different ways. But what I think defensively has kind of trickled down is just like you have to have certain sets of things that you have to have in football to win and you have to have defensive linemen that can hold on to the interior. And so like we're seeing interior defensive linemen being paid in the NFL. I think we're seeing that in college. Basically the best interior lineman are going to win. Some of the trickle down things too from the NFL are kind of changing the way these coverage structures work and Spagnola being one of them of where they're going to play Palms, which is to read essentially corner is going to take a flat safety still stays on top of number one. A lot of people put it in the quarters universe, but you're playing with essentially one less guy in the middle and so you're not worried about the running back and so you're playing the law of averages of we're going to pressure, we're probably going to pressure to the back and we are going to force him to stay in. If he goes out, you're, you're a man short because we're going to run some sort of overload pressure. But we're going to still be able to play quarters on the back end because we're going to cap verticals. We're going to layer the coverage because quarters naturally layers really nice on a lot of these wide crosses and a lot of these things where we're getting these over routes all the time in college football. And so what you're seeing now is like, you know, Oregon is another good example of here are guys like, I mean I've had conversations on, I mean in 2018, I had a conversation with, with Dan Lanning at AFCA of like, hey, what you guys did at Baylor, like what will that work? You know, can you run quarters? And here we are fast forward almost seven years later and Oregon is essentially a quarters team. You know, Georgia is essentially a quarter scene. Do they run at other things? Yes. This isn't pit Narduzzi where they're running it almost 70% of the time, but you are getting different iterations of this coverage and it's able to then answer problems. So to your point, building it now, you have to be multiple. I have to be multiple in the front, I have to be multiple in the back. And I had a conversation with Dan Casey just the other day about nowadays you have to be able to teach there. You know, we're kind of in an era now where we've had all these essentially, you know, door to door salesmen that have been these coaches and that recruiters recruiting.

[David Pollack]

All that mattered is if you could recruit talent. It wasn't about developing it and teaching it at all.

[Brent Rollins]

And so what ends up happening now in NIL is one, I have to build a relationship with the kid if I want to keep them come. But two, the money is what's funneling the kids to schools. It's not necessarily I want to go play here or I'm getting. It's, hey, they're going to pay me, you know, such and such amount more. So you're recruiting pitch and going and talking to mom and all that stuff, that's still kind of important. But you're seeing a lot of these staffs, like, basically like, have the kids come to them. Hey, you just come to campus. We'll show you around. Here you go. So now a lot of these guys, you're gonna find out really quickly, the NFL's starting to go through this process as well. Of like, can I add value in the classroom when we're talking to these kids? And, and I'm not just going through my punch list of drills that I've had for 10 years. Like, I'm gonna have to actually start coaching these kids. I'm gonna have to do this now. You know, Georgia has obviously done an excellent job with that. If you've got, if you've talked to. And I know you're, you're real familiar with the program. So, like, they teach, it's intensive, like, you know, same same way. It's.

[Cody Alexander]

It.

[Brent Rollins]

You can tell too a lot of times by the scheme. Like, Aranda is a masterful at teaching. And so like, you go in there and it's like there's a reason why the top defenses are the top defense year in the out, even though now they're kind of cycling through guys. It's because they have a process. They believe in it, they trust it, they know how to teach it and they can build that. They can. They can really assimilate kids very quickly now. And how do you do that? You do that with good teaching and good processes. You're seeing a pare down now you do that. I'd say multiple but you're paring down the scheme a little bit more. The Nick Saban 3000 playbook probably doesn't exist anymore. And I think he's even mentioned that before of just like he got to the point where it's like, look, there's some certain things that we just can't get to and it's just not. Because if that. Because I don't have a fifth year senior playing safety and I or I don't have that linebacker who's been in my program as a redshirt, you know, as a redshirt junior that's been here technically for four years and knows the deepest anybody in that system to tell you it takes literally three to four years to really understand. It takes about five to six to basically own it. And so what you're seeing now is kind of a simplified version or what's called like a modular version. We're taking same as principles. Hey, you remember when we were in cover three and we were running this. Hey, we're going to use that technique and we're going to put it in here and it's the same technique but you're just playing a different coverage away from it. And so what you're doing now is you're. I call it the Eli Whitney effect. Right. Interchangeable parts. We're just taking different parts, we're putting them in different things and then we're kind of creating these Frankenstein defenses. To the offense it looks super confusing, but to the defense I'm not really teaching anything new week to week or reinventing the wheel.

[Cody Alexander]

Yeah, it's one like Georgia specifically. They got basically an entire new safety room other than KJ Bolden. So that'll be just. All right, so I want to finish up in a way with a quiz for the both of you. I'm going to ask preference what would you rather defend? And let's see where you guys would go. So if we would, if just for defensive purposes, calling setting my defense all that stuff, would you rather see the QB under center or in the gun?

[Brent Rollins]

I, I think, I think the QB under center it eliminates. It eliminates some things in the passing game. So to me I would rather see that. I, I do know the caveat to that is there's your run game's better but I would much rather see a QB under center.

[David Pollack]

Hey, Mahomes that are center is a different animal than seeing other people under.

[Cody Alexander]

Center about who the guy is. I'll get to the guy in a Second. Get to the guy in a second. All right, next one. Would you rather see him in a pistol or an offset back? If they are in the gun.

[Brent Rollins]

What.

[Cody Alexander]

Do you like, dislike more? Basically?

[Brent Rollins]

I think, I think the pistol, you know, I. I think the pistol gives you kind of that two way go. It limits you again in the passing game. So that's another reason why I never really. The pistols never really scare me. The gun can do a bunch of different things actually. The pistol actually eliminates half the field. When you do any kind of read with it, he actually turns your back. It makes it a lot easier for your overhangs to fit the run. So actually I would say the guns probably. Actually I would not want to see the gun.

[David Pollack]

Well, and I would want to see the gun too because people have gotten so creative, Cody too, with moving that back late. You know, it used to just. It used to be a one track. You're running the other direction and now you see same side runs with the back and to that side. So it's easy, it's. It's harder now to defend the back than it ever has been because people are so creative in the way they move them and hide them and, and use them differently.

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah. Well, and to mention that you. The spinner action, now that we're seeing of where you spin around, you're hiding the ball like that.

[Cody Alexander]

This is.

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah, it's a nice sark.

[Cody Alexander]

That's sarks.

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah.

[Cody Alexander]

Next one Bunch or like bunch sets with receivers? Or would you rather everything two by two, three by one, like every. Everybody spread out.

[Brent Rollins]

I don't want to see a bunch.

[David Pollack]

No. Ever? No.

[Cody Alexander]

Okay.

[Brent Rollins]

I mean, okay, I might be a little bit biased because like, I mean I, I essentially grew up in football, like especially like coming from Baylor like where everything was 10 personnel. So it's like that's how I learned it first and then we shrunk the field. Bunch is another different beast. Yeah, you don't want to deal with.

[David Pollack]

Bunch well and bunch. Bunch versus that. What Brent's talking about is literally when you bring receivers together and now they can go all the different directions. And now I have to get on different levels when I play defense than you. Like otherwise I can kind of line up and play. But when you bring guys together, they can go all over the place. Now listen, you still have tendencies about where you're lined up and where you're going to get to with your splits and your split reduction sometimes. But like I don't. The bunches are hard to get your hands on. People and make things. Make things more difficult.

[Brent Rollins]

All right, last one.

[Cody Alexander]

We'll get you out here. Get you out of here on this one. Cody, would you rather see the sort of supreme running threat but kind of a mid passer as a qb, or would you rather see elite passer that can just move a little bit?

[Brent Rollins]

I don't want to. I don't want to play a guy that can actually throw the ball. Like, if I can. If you can run the ball, we can manipulate a lot of that and I can force you into situations where I can make you play a quarterback. If you get a guy that can just sit there and just pat the ball and put it in there, that's a. That's a. That's a problem. And especially if they can anymore, we just don't see statues. So it's like if they can throw the ball and just have some similar.

[Cody Alexander]

Move a little bit to where they're not a statue.

[Brent Rollins]

Yep.

[David Pollack]

Why would you even. And Cody, thank you for joining us, by the way. Cody Alexander. And if you want to watch more of his stuff, dude, It's. It's match quarters.com and it's. Let's talk ball. He's so good with all this stuff and you can hear him. He loves it. I don't understand, Cody, why anybody would ever not have a mobile quarterback anymore. Like, I'm just telling you, I'm starting my. My evaluation with that. And here's why, Cody, like, because as he's learning the game and getting better and growing, I have an element of him to lean on. Like, I can use his gifts in the running game to still cause you problems. Keep it pretty simple, keep it pretty basic, what he does well, and I can grow him as a passer. But, like, when you get me a guy now, and these guys aren't staying that long, so when you get me a guy now that I've got to develop some concepts that are a little bit more difficult. Like, it takes time. It takes time to learn progressions, to go through timing, all that stuff. Man, I am not playing quarterback at any level of my coaching career. I'm not having a quarterback that can't run. Not doing it.

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, I do a lot. I do a lot more work in the NFL right now than I do college. But, like, Jaden Daniels is one of those where it's just like, oh, my. Like, the defense is played perfectly. Like, there's. I do a bunch. And you know this because I. I clip out a bunch of things that I Find interesting. And so like, I want to clip this play because it's perfect distribution. And then you just see Jane Daniels take off for a 50 yard run, you're just like, well, you know, I saw my buddy Tej Seth, who does analytics on X, he former pffer, by the way. Yes. He. He posted a deal of like the most efficient running back. I think it was like in the last 10 years, just runner. Just use the word runner in the last 10 years on designed run. So basically all running back runs are designed. It was Lamar Jackson. It wasn't even close. Yeah, and it's like, there's your answer. Like, he is the best. He technically is like the best running back and he's arguably one of the better quarterbacks in the NFL. And it's just like, how do you, how do you win a lot of times on defense when you have a guy like that? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a. Like I mentioned at the beginning of my segment, it was like two man is dead. It's not. And it's probably not coming back unless it's like third and forever. But even then you don't want to have a guy that's just running around back there creating havoc.

[David Pollack]

Well, and he says that because in man to man, when you're backs to the quarterback and you got a guy like Lamar and you're chasing a receiver down the field and Lamar's just like, yeah, keep your back to him because I'm just going to keep running. And then obviously the guys up front obviously chase them around and stuff is really, really difficult. Cody, man, thank you so much for, for joining us. We're obviously big fans of your work. Me and Brent have been sending clips from you for years and over the years teaching us and growing us and everybody. Check it out. I mean, he's got his nice little emblem behind him with the match quarters.com and I like it. And the podcast man. Welcome. Welcome to the podcast world, brother.

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah, I've been waiting a long time to start. I want to make sure it was right when I started it, have a plan. So I'm excited to get that project started and then heading into the NFL season.

[David Pollack]

So you picked the perfect time where defenses are horrible, a great job. It's not a defensive dominant world anymore. That's a great time to start a defensive podcast, brother.

[Brent Rollins]

Glutton for punishment, man. I look, I've tried to play offense. My dad's an offensive coordinator forever. I tried to play offense and I kept getting kicked back over and of course Even worse, I was a white corner. And so, like, I was. I was always the. The one unicorn on the whole team.

[David Pollack]

Yeah, well, your son Bobo is going to take care of that because he's running all over the place like a man.

[Brent Rollins]

That's right.

[Cody Alexander]

Awesome. Thanks, Cody.

[David Pollack]

Appreciate you, big dog.

[Brent Rollins]

Yeah, appreciate you guys.

[David Pollack]

All right, Brent. Well, I knew. I know you, Brent, so I know you'd love that. And I think our guests hopefully really enjoy that. But it's just, it's just fun to listen and there's a lot going on and if you might want to go back and listen again, like from some of the concepts and some of the things. But it's just amazing the thought process that goes into the game and the evolution of the game and, you know, everybody getting more spread back in the day, which, which made me get more lean. And now you get lean on defense. And when you get lean, we're going to bring more bodies in and we're going to get bigger. And it's just like defense is the hardest to play because you're always. And the rules are all set up for the offense to be successful. I mean, all of them. Every single freaking one of them. Every one of them. Like, it's not. It's designed to score points. It's not about, like, stopping. Nobody wants to watch LSU in Alabama play for a national title when LSU doesn't get across the 50 again. Nobody wants to see that. Everybody wants to see points, Brent.

[Cody Alexander]

Yeah, very true. I think you're going to see a lot of them in college football this year, more so than I think offense is going to tick up this year in college football even more so than it has recently, mainly just because of so much player movement. Yeah, I, I think that's going to be a thing. But yeah, by the way, that was education at its finest. If you were a folk defensive nerd or football nerd at all, you've got to almost listen to that twice to. To get it and really be dialed into what he just said and talked, what we talked about.

[David Pollack]

And again, to finish this up, man, like, this is. So many people have wanted parody. Now, listen, I don't think you wanted it the way we got it. Like, nobody, Nobody loves the transfer portal like it is. Nobody loves Nil probably like it is. Maybe some people do. I, I don't. But you have the most parody you've had in college football in a long time and so many. So much of the talent spread out, so much of the depth. So many people going all different places because they're getting paid. The game is in a good spot because we're gonna. We're gonna put a line probably at nine or 10 people that at the end of the season that could. Or before the season starts of who can win an Addie like.

[Cody Alexander]

Yeah.

[David Pollack]

And we don't do that. So. Really, really cool, man. We'll be back here again next week, man, talking some football and was texting with Brett Bielema the other day. We're gonna have him on, which I think will be fantastic, because. Let's go, dude. Here's what I've always loved and appreciated about Brett Bielema. He don't sugarcoat crap. He says it straight, no chaser, exactly how he believes, you know, done it at a successful level, big conferences. I love that he got to spend time, by the way, in the NFL with Belichick and then come in and changed him a little bit as a coach and who he is. So we'll get him. We'll get Kirby in July, and we'll keep kicking that tire down the road. And we appreciate you guys continuing to join us, watch us do all that cool stuff where you rate, subscribe, and all that stuff, whatever that is, and we will see you next week.