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Bonus: Etgar Keret and Ira Glass
00:35:19
Israeli writer Etgar Keret talks to his friend, This American Life host Ira Glass.
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- [00:00]
Meg Wolitzer
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- [00:54]
Meg Wolitzer
Hi, this is Meg Wolitzer. Symphony Space was thrilled to host an evening with Israeli writer Edgar Kerritt, who whose stories we featured many times on selected shorts. He was interviewed by his longtime friend and host of this American Life, Ira Glass. In this condensed version of their talk, they playfully challenge each other on a wide range of topics, some political, some creative, but mainly about what it's like to live in these uncertain times. It's a remarkable interview. Their long friendship is on full display, which adds a level of passion, humor and depth that we don't normally expect from these types of events. Please enjoy this bonus interview between Edgar Kerritt and Ira Glass.
- [01:42]
Ira Glass
I'm Ira Glass. Welcome to Symphony Space. This evening I will be talking with Edgar Carrot about his new short story collection, Autocorrect.
- [01:53]
Hi. Edgar is actually we are in real life, friends, and I had this experience a couple of years ago leaving Israel. And if you've traveled to Israel, you know that when you leave there's this like security screening and they come and they ask you questions and they can be very menacing. And so the officer who was asking me questions asked why I was in Israel, and I said I was here to visit a friend. And he said, who's your friend? And I said, my friend is my friend Ekar. He says, what's his last name? I said, carrot. And then he gave me this look of skepticism.
- [02:28]
As if I had said, like Brad Pitt.
- [02:32]
And he said, you don't know Edgar Kerrat? And I said, no, no, I totally know Edgar Kerratt. He said, let me see your phone. And he made me find Edgar's phone number in my phone and then I was allowed to leave the country.
- [02:46]
Have I told you that story yet?
- [02:49]
Edgar Kerritt
But I have a similar story, like an American Story that when I taught in summer semester at nyu, I would buy my books at Strands. So I came there to buy a copy of a book of Donald Bartholomew because I teach him in my classes. And I also bought a copy of my own book because I was meeting this LA producer that I thought maybe will make a movie out of a story and become rich. So I came with two books to the cashier and because she said, oh, two of my favorite authors. And I said, and I'm one of them. And so he looked at me and he said, that would be $42.
- [03:37]
Ira Glass
So, Eckhart, so the new book. I love a bunch of stories in the book, but I have to say they are all very dark. Eight of them I counted are about people who seem completely unable to connect to other people. And these people are in moments of hopelessness that in a bunch of the stories are basically the end of the world. There are four stories about people who decide to settle for less than ideal relationships. Every time you have a happy couple in the book, there are four happy couples and you murder each of them.
- [04:10]
Edgar Kerritt
I just want to say, you know, spoiler, the world is going to end. All the people you know are going to die, and you need to make some compromises. That's life, you know, it's not something I made up.
- [04:24]
Ira Glass
I accept that. But I mean, in comparison to your other stories, so many stories in this book take place at the end of the world in moments of hopelessness. Several take place after death. There are so many, like lonely, isolated people in couples or alone. And I remember when I was reading the book, I really had this feeling of like. I mean, my real feeling was like, oh, Eckhart isn't doing well. And you wrote the book before October 7th too. Just talk about, like, what state you were in, like where these stories are coming from.
- [05:02]
Edgar Kerritt
So I wrote this book in the period just when my mother died, that my mother was the person I was. I wouldn't say the closest to, but very, very close and present in my life. And I wrote it through Covid. After my mother died, I lost 28 pounds and herniated my back. And I said, oh, how about I write a book about life? You know, so the starting point wasn't very good. And then we had in Israel the judicial revolution. And, you know, we. We would demonstrate and, you know, and try to fight. And then I wrote some more depressing stories and. And then I was supposed to actually give the manuscript to my publisher on the date of October 8th. That was the delivery date of the Manuscript. And I read it on the 6th of October, and I said to Shira, to my wife, I said to her, I can't deliver this book on the 8th because it's too dark and it's too depressing. And. And the Sheila said, oh, you're such a drum queen, you know, put it aside, read it tomorrow again, and if you think the same, call them, you know. And so I said, okay. And, you know, and then the 7th of October, and I didn't remember had a book anymore, like, for three or four months, so.
- [06:22]
Ira Glass
Oh, wow.
- [06:23]
Edgar Kerritt
Yeah. And when I got back to it and read it, I said, it's just right, you know, it's as if, like, I was kind of doing a portrait of you. And I said, no, no, no, Ivan, it doesn't look his age. He looks older. And then I waited for 10 years. I said, ah, no, no, no, it's you. You know, so.
- [06:43]
So really, like. And again, you know, I think that, you know, I say dark or depressing. I think that the action I was trying to take in this story was to plunge myself into my life, or into life as it became, and to say to myself, you can still be human, you know, maybe you won't be able to win, maybe you die, maybe, but you can still be human. You don't need to give up on that. You don't need to be automated to become completely passive. You can fight that. And I think that writing those stories, it's really like the word ends, but people can still crack a joke. You know, you find a woman you love and you both die, but in the afterlife, she teaches you how to play backgammon. You know, it's really like. I mean, there's always something to wait for.
- [07:39]
Ira Glass
Did you go through a period after October 7th where you had trouble writing stories?
- [07:44]
Edgar Kerritt
Yes, I think right after October 7th, basically, it was kind of a call for action, you know, And I find myself all the time doing things. You know, it's really like right after the October 7, some people. People were missing, and people that I knew around me knew that I teach in Beersheva, which is in the south, which was the hospital that a lot of the bodies were evacuated to. So they would want me to call my students, you know, to send the students to the morgue to check if the loved ones are kidnapped or dead. You know, and a lot of people were evacuated. And then everybody would come and do something like, you know, prepare food or drive people around. And I can't drive and I can't make food, so I Would kind of come with me. She and me would come and we would read to children or read to grown ups or do yoga with children or I would bring joints to.
- [08:40]
Ira Glass
So you were busy?
- [08:41]
Edgar Kerritt
So you weren't medical marijuana? I broke my ribs. I. I paid for that.
- [08:49]
Ira Glass
So. So you were busy, but also like, maybe. Yeah. I was wondering if you just like lost the mood to write if the world wasn't something that was interesting to write about.
- [08:58]
Edgar Kerritt
So I think that to write is something. There's always something that you know and something that you don't know. I think like bad writing is when you know everything you know, but there's always something that you know. And, and I did feel like, you know, when the war started, that I don't know anything. It's the first time I came to speak to a community of survivors. Then the idea is that you go there and everything is chaotic, so people are walking and people are sitting, but you're not the only one who came. So there's always somebody who came before that and there's always somebody who's kind of like an arranger or a fixer. So you come and you say, can you bring the children here? Can you put the chairs here? Can you do.
- [09:40]
Ira Glass
And when you say survivors, just to be sure everybody's on the same page, these are people who survived in the kibbutzim down south when Hamas came over and attacked and killed so many people.
- [09:49]
Edgar Kerritt
Yeah. And they were evacuated to other parts. And again, and you know, when you came in the reading, for example, you could be next to Tel Aviv and read and see a five year old next to him, a father with a rifle, holding the rifle like this, guarding his child. And when she and me would tell sad stories, sometimes the parents would cry, not the children. You know, it was really like. But the first time I got there. So it's those kind of fixes, they just. People came to help. And Sheila always says to me that I have these things that when I'm stressed, I'm not polite. So she said, when always you need something, you never say, hi, my name is Edgar, what's your name? And I just say, can you please bring the chair? Can you do this? So she said to me, always remember, like when somebody helps you, ask the name, ask for the name. It's nice. Like people like it when they ask for the name. And you know, and when we did this thing and we did everything, since there was this moment, that helped me a lot. And she held the baby in her hand and the baby was asleep. So she helped me with the baby, but kind of moved her, did everything. And before I left, I remember that I didn't ask her for a name. And she said, thank you, thank you. And then I thought I'd be smart, you know. So I said to her, wow, the baby, she's amazing. Like, for all this time, she didn't cry, she didn't do what's her name? And then the woman looked at me and she says, I don't know. She said, just take, you know, five minutes before you came, there was this woman breastfeeding. And they just told her that her husband was murdered. And she fainted. And this guy held the baby and let me hold it. And then you came, and I forgot that I was holding it. And I think that, you know, when I tell you about this inability to tell a story, is that it's kind of. For me, the story was, everything is crazy, but one baby knows that her mother is protecting her. And in this middle of this madness, something sane can still happen. Then you say, no, no, no, you didn't get it. Like, nothing is sane. Nobody is protected. And it takes you some time to regain your footing to know up from down, just so there will be these little things that you do know.
- [12:04]
Ira Glass
It's so dark.
- [12:08]
Edgar Kerritt
Again, you know, if you ask me, I'm an optimist, but.
- [12:15]
Objectively, we're going down.
- [12:19]
So being an optimist, I really think that, you know, it's like, I often tell my students that people who lived in the Dark Ages, they didn't know that they were living in the Dark Ages, you know, but still, in the Dark Ages, there were many people who had an amazing life. You know, they lived on a hill and they had great sex and they had a dog, and they ran with him, you know, and played with him. So I'm saying I think we should start there because I think that we live in a world where basically everything that happens in the world comes to us, you know, reaches us through social media, already processed. So we know every wrongdoing in the world. We know everything that pisses us off in the world. We have godlike knowledge, but we don't have any strength to change that reality. It's really like sometimes like we were doing all the time, we kind of jumping, trying to hit the cloud so some rain would come down. You know, it's really. I think that we don't assess the situation around us well. And I think that, let's say if you're an ant and you go on the pavement and you See a man beating up a child, then you could say, I'm going to kick the ass of that man. But I think it would be helpful to know that you're an anti. You know, so I'm saying in this situation, I don't say, don't root for the boy and maybe when he falls, walk on his forward back and forth, it makes them feel better. But you're an ant. And I think that we have this kind of almost like a beavers and battered existence where all the time we arguing fiercely about stuff that we can't affect at all. Can I tell you about a fight that I had with a taxi driver?
- [13:59]
Ira Glass
Okay.
- [14:01]
Edgar Kerritt
And I want to say that there are few things that are most stable in my life than the fact that taxi drivers pick fights with me or I pick fights with them. I don't know, it depends.
- [14:10]
Ira Glass
But in my experience, you pick fights with them.
- [14:15]
Edgar Kerritt
So I was getting on this taxi in Tel Aviv and the driver said to me, I know you and I know your wife and we gonna have a very interesting conversation here. You know, we have a long ride. And he was really like very aggressive. And me and my wife were liberal left wingers, and he apparently wasn't.
- [14:35]
Ira Glass
And you say, and you and your wife are very public about your political thoughts in Israel and people don't like it. Yes.
- [14:41]
Edgar Kerritt
Yeah. But I said to him, you know what? We have a long ride. I'll fight with you all the ride. I'm very good at fights, but first you need to play a game with me. And he said, okay. So I said to him, tell me the three things that gives you the greatest joy and happiness in your life. He said, that's easy. My wife. My daughter. My daughter. I said, okay, now tell me the three things that brings the most misery and unhappiness to your life. So he said, Herzi Halevi, Benka Speed and the IR Lapid. Now, Herzi Halevi is the chief of staff that people in the right wing didn't like. Benka Spitz is a journalist that writes against Netanyahu and Yair Lapid is the head of the opposition. I don't know if we have an opposition, but he's like this guy said, walking around in the background. So because I promised the guy a fight, you know, So I said to him, look what a miserable, pathetic human being you are, because that's always a nice way to start a conversation. I said to him, all the things that brings you happiness are an arm away. You know, you can kiss your daughter, you can play with your dog, you can make love to your wife, but instead of that, you keep the radio open and you get depressed by free entities that you don't know that they really exist. And I said to him, look me in the eyes. I was with the chief of staff in the same room, and I put my arm through him. He's a hologram. Now, prove me wrong. Tell me that you ever touched him. And we never had a fight. He shut up until we got to the address.
- [16:26]
But I think that that's. It's really like with me. I have now this idea usually that I don't want to engage in an argument if it doesn't have an effect in life, you know? So if somebody says to me, I think it's a wonderful idea to throw a nuclear bomb on Gaza, then I say to him, either we have an argument, and I say, I think it's a wonderful idea to end the war. And whoever wins the argument, we're going to do that, okay? If you win the argument, I'm going to help you carry the nuclear bomb. Okay? Because they're heavy. But if I win the argument, you're going to go out there and make peace. Either we do that or we're wasting our time. It's really those beefs and butthead moments, you know, the time I'm arguing with you about Donald Trump shouldn't have done that, or should have done that. I could feed the kitten, you know, the kitten doesn't care. He didn't vote the last election.
- [17:21]
Ira Glass
Do you think that your picture of life now, that basically you feel like an ant in a world where there's like a man beating up a child, but you can't do anything about it because you're an aunt. Has to do with the fact that you live in Israel where the right wing so thoroughly controls the country and you got to a weekly demonstration time after time, and it has no effect.
- [17:48]
And.
- [17:50]
You'Re just in a country where you can't control anything anymore, unlike the.
- [17:57]
Edgar Kerritt
US where, you know, work, if you're a foreign student going to Harvard.
- [18:04]
Ira Glass
So. So you see, because I view that as quitter talk. No, but first, I'm a proper American.
- [18:12]
Edgar Kerritt
No, the idea is that I often say in the American Israel relationship that Israel is the canary in the mines. I was here in the 90s, and people said to me, how can you live with terrorism? And I said, maybe if you wait for 10 years, you figure it out yourself. So I'm saying that you're insinuating that it's something that has to do, let's say, with the Middle East. But I'm saying that it's something that has to do with the world. I really feel that, first of all, as a storyteller, I think that the world is losing its story, you know, in that sense that, you know, let's say in the Second World War.
- [18:49]
Ira Glass
What in the world does that mean? What are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, the world is losing its story.
- [18:55]
Edgar Kerritt
You're losing your story. Okay, I'll go on your head. Look, I'll tell you.
- [19:01]
Ira Glass
What are you talking about?
- [19:03]
Edgar Kerritt
Listen, listen. You can define stories in many ways, but one way to define the story is basically the sum of all the decisions that your protagonist had made. Because, you know, Raskolenkov comes and says, should I kill this old woman or have an ice cream? And if he says, I have an ice cream, you know, they call it crime and ice cream. And it's 30 pages long, and something else happened, you know, and it ends with diarrhea, you know, so.
- [19:35]
So the idea is that when we had social media and we have all those things called the algorithm, and we have AI and we have technology, then the idea is that in the old times, when, you know, let's say in the 70s, the model of technology was something that serves us, like, we would go to a restaurant and a robot would come and give us food and then wash the dishes. But what happened in reality, that we're doing all the work, actually, but the things that we outsourced was our decisions. So, for example, if you would have told me the five last films you've seen, I would say to you, ira, you pussy, you only see comedies, okay? And I would say something about you. But if I would ask you for the five last Instagram clips you saw, which was a cat in a boat, a rapper saying, kill the police, somebody drowning, I don't know exactly where, and somebody teaching you how to make a tiramisu while similarly having a hard on, then what would it say about you? Nothing. And that's the idea that. No, you don't. What's the idea?
- [20:42]
Ira Glass
What's the idea?
- [20:43]
Edgar Kerritt
No. So the idea is that the word right now is like a person watching Instagram. So he says, ah, I like that. I don't like that. But actually, the idea of being in an active stance, of asking yourself what you're going to do is something that we very rarely do. So I can tell you, as somebody who's been demonstrating for a long time in different ways, that people go to the demonstrations every Shabbat every Saturday. And they say, free them. Now they're doing it every Saturday. I'm doing it, okay, for 100 weeks. Now, if you would go to your espresso machine and say, give me coffee every week for two years and it wouldn't work, would you keep on doing that? You probably wouldn't, but we do. You know, when we say now, it's like a man of secular people, you know, it really has no hold. So I think there is this kind of things, that there is no movement. You know, even when you look at Trump, when you look at the news, it's like I'm saying in the 30s, 40s, I would ask you what's going on. You would talk to me about Second World War. Now I talk to you about what? About the students in Harvard, about a warring Gaza, about the power failure in Portugal, about Internet not working in Spain. Every day, like, tomorrow it will be aliens. It's like those Netflix series, the writer is bad. You know, every episode they do something else. And I'm saying the same goes with us. Because I think that many times, let's say our active stance, if we think about it, it wasn't that we went in the street and we saw something and we say, I think people mistreat poodles. They look down on poodles, but poodle is a great animal. I'm going to fend for this poodle. We don't go this way. You know, we just go on your stream. And then they say, okay, how about we switch our Facebook photo to the flag of Ukraine, you know, and hold it for two weeks. And then when we barbecue, we put photo of us barbecuing because the Ukrainian people, they must be okay. Now you know everything. It's like you're in a kindergarten and you're doing those activities and you say, yeah, those activities. They say stuff about me. I'm moral, I'm taking a stand, I'm a good person. But when you.
- [23:00]
Ira Glass
I agree with that part. Like what people's online life is and how they try to signal through that and everything you're saying with that. But I think you romanticize how much activity we all were doing back in the 70s and 80s, before this tech existed. I feel like this is such a. Like a. A romantic idea of the past and how, like, we were like. You're talking about like a mythical past. We were all, like, making active choices.
- [23:23]
Edgar Kerritt
No, no, but as if, like. But active choices. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying today, people's dogs Starve because they're busy fighting with somebody on Twitter. You know, so what I'm saying, the activism of the 70s, you know, that you listened to your neighbor when he told you a boring story because it wasn't like your feet, that is always into what you're doing, and you help the, I don't know, an elderly lady open this kind of. No, you helped me opening those Advil things that I never know. It's like children protected, but I'm short, so I can't open them. I don't know. So I'm saying we did stuff. And I'm saying now so much of our time, we're basically kind of watching at the start and talking about something that is outside of our reach. And also, we judge people basically about what they think about that third thing. And what about they do.
- [24:16]
Ira Glass
Okay, all right.
- [24:18]
Edgar Kerritt
Shame on you, Ira. I want you to come to Israel and fix things up.
- [24:23]
Ira Glass
You said in an interview, this thing you said, whenever I have anger, my way to vent is by writing a story from the point of view of the person I'm angry at. And then you said, I heard more than 10 stories about Benjamin Netanyahu. What stories did you just. You were mad at Netanyahu, and then you tried to write a story from Netanyahu's point of view.
- [24:46]
Edgar Kerritt
So I think this goes to the wrong place. The word is in for me. It all kind of reminds me the short period in which I was driving. Okay? So when I was driving and sometimes I was able to kind of keep a straight line and not do anything. Then, like, once in a while, somebody would cut me. And then, like, you know, I would stop at the stoplight and signal him to turn down the window. And then I said to him, you ugly, stupid excuse for human being. Where did you learn how to drive? In the supermarket, you piece of shit. And then he said, oh, Avi. Oh, my God, man, you look good. What? You went to Turkey to transplant some hair? Oh, my God. And how he's to going, oh, she's great. So what happened? Like, a second ago, I wanted to kill this guy because the only thing he wants for me was the driver who cut me.
- [25:36]
Ira Glass
Yes.
- [25:37]
Edgar Kerritt
And then a second later, he was a guy that would tell those funny jokes, and his mom would make those great sandwiches, and we would always make fun because he never knew how to drive, you know, so we have this kind of whole whole picture, and in this whole picture, he's not driving very well, you know? Okay. But he's Avi, you know, his mother she would put the cheese and then the tomatoes and then another cheese, you know, and when you fetch the tomato between two cheeses, you know, all the juices come out. So you like Avi, too, and.
- [26:06]
Ira Glass
Yeah, and so then the driving perspective.
- [26:09]
Edgar Kerritt
The thing is, when we meet somebody, it's always complicated, you know.
- [26:12]
Ira Glass
Yes, yes, yes. And so to get to the question.
- [26:17]
Edgar Kerritt
That's the simple part.
- [26:19]
Ira Glass
Okay, so you wrote a bunch of stories from the point of view of Benjamin Netanyahu.
- [26:24]
Edgar Kerritt
Yes.
- [26:25]
Ira Glass
Is one of them in the book?
- [26:26]
Edgar Kerritt
When I do those therapy stories, mostly they're not good.
- [26:32]
But they help me in the story.
- [26:34]
Ira Glass
Is it actually Benjamin Netanyahu or is it a different sort of situation?
- [26:38]
Edgar Kerritt
No, it's a guy that I kind of imagine that he has the psycho of Benjamin Netanyahu. He doesn't have to be a prime minister. And I'm saying, okay, I'm Benjamin Netanyahu and I'm doing stuff. And I try to understand why I'm doing what I'm doing. But I'm saying, I did it with my sister. It's not only Benjamin Netanyahu. Everyone would piss me off. It's only you, Ira, because you're always so nice.
- [27:02]
Ira Glass
What was the story that you read from the point of view of your sister?
- [27:05]
Edgar Kerritt
So this is actually the post October 7th story that is in this book, and it's called Intention. And very early on in the war, we talked. And my sister, she's ultra Orthodox. She has 11 children. She has more than 50 grandchildren. She has one great grandchild living in the US in Monsey.
- [27:26]
Ira Glass
And so what did she say that got you angry?
- [27:29]
Edgar Kerritt
So it was right after the war, and again, you know, somebody I knew got kidnapped and meet all this sorrow. And my sister was talking to me about the war, but she lived in Jerusalem, and there were no Mrs. Jerusalem at the time. And none of her family was in the army. She didn't know anybody in the kibbutzes. So it was a huge drama. But it was like, theoretical, like me experiencing invasion of Russia to the Ukraine. I say it's terrible, it's a killing, you know, but it wasn't me. And she kept telling me how because she wants to help. She doubled her prayers, she prayed twice as much. And I was very cynical and not nice about it. Like I said, doesn't seem to be working. You know, like, stuff like that, which is really nasty and not nice. And my sister, she's the nicest, nicest person. So it was almost like I was trying to pick a fight with her. And she wouldn't pick a fight with me. She would just tell me what she did. And at some point I said to her, listen, like, it's not fair, you know, it's not fair for you. I'm not nice. Let's talk some other time. And I wrote a story about a guy who's utter Orthodox, that after the 7th of October, he starts praying that he wants to have all the kidnapped people back. And when it doesn't work, he goes to the rabbi and he says, there is no God. I prayed. And he doesn't. And the rabbi says to him, no, no, you didn't pray well enough. You didn't pray with a full heart. And then this guy tries to pray better and better, and as the prayers are changing him, he doesn't only want the kidnapped back, he wants the Palestinians to have a country. He wants everybody to be happy. He wants animals. Not like the prayer just kind of keeps going up and up. And. And in the end, he dies because my car.
- [29:14]
Ira Glass
But.
- [29:14]
Edgar Kerritt
But there was something. But there was a moment in the story that when I do those things, when I write people that I'm angry at, I try to be them, but it's like half working. And in this moment, there was a moment where I realized that I'm the guy who's praying. Because what I realized. The toughest thing when you write a story, and I know it because I teach creative writing, is that everybody has a great story to tell. But you say, I'm going to write it down, and nobody's going to get it. Nobody's going to read it. And even if they read it, they won't get it. Like, what's the point? And when I write story, I invent a reader. They're usually elderly and beautiful and very, very tall.
- [29:57]
Ira Glass
Is this true?
- [29:58]
Meg Wolitzer
Yeah.
- [29:59]
Ira Glass
Yeah.
- [29:59]
Edgar Kerritt
Like, it's something like, I kind of see a face, like big eyes or something, and I say, hey, lady, I'm writing this for you. You know, and it helps me because when I do that, I have a feeling that I'm actually engaged in a dialogue. And what helps me is that when I finish the story, I know how I feel. So I thought maybe my sister is just doing the same thing. Like, if you assume that there's somebody out there and you tell him what you want, in the end, you know what you want. You know, which most people in here, I put my money that they don't know what they want. You should pray more or write stories.
- [30:33]
Ira Glass
Let's not go down this road. Let's talk about Your stories.
- [30:36]
Edgar Kerritt
Okay, but that's what I'm saying, that I come to New York, I come to New York and we argue about vaccination and we argue about global warming. Basically. What I think that we have more urgent issues. And those urgent issues could be, let's say, feeding a kitten, giving you a hug, saying, ira, you look so well and you do.
- [30:58]
Ira Glass
I think that climate change is a more urgent issue than a kitten. But that's me.
- [31:06]
You remind me of this idea I had for a radio story that I tried to do and that it proved impossible to do. And it was to, There's a, I have a conservative friend and I was like, at one point we admitted like, like I believe that climate change is real. He was like, was very skeptical and we admitted like we didn't read the studies or anything. Like, I didn't read the studies just like most people. Like, you know, the news sources that I trust had read those studies and summarize them and I trust those news sources. So I was like, okay, it seems real to me. And he, his news sources told him that they weren't real. And I thought we would, we could do a story where we would just admit to each other that we really just believe this because of our tribal associations. And then we would try to prove to each other who was right by diving into the science and taking each other to different places, admitting we really don't know. We all, we will admit that, like.
- [31:54]
Edgar Kerritt
This would be an amazing thing, you know, and I think that you should do it. But I think that what you should extract from this dynamic, you know, I mean, those arguments that we have or that those people have, basically the question is the way is that let's say if we argue if there is, I don't know, global warming or there isn't global warming. And I just argue with you because I like to argue. But no, but I know, but wait. But I'm saying, like I say to taxi drivers, unless in the end of the argument we're going to fix it, then what's the point? Now what I'm saying is that I think that most of the things that we're doing, like tribally is we're doing it for ourselves. So when you argue with me, and when I argue with you, like you say, he came from the jungle, but I keep this intellectual open mindedness. And I say, oh, Ira, this the New Yorker, like, you know, he's weak, he's soft, he's not like us. We're in the desert. No. So basically, like many think of the actions that you say. It's basically narcissistic in the sense that you say, not in my name. Who cares? In your name. Not in your name. What's important is what's happening, you know, on the ground.
- [33:06]
Ira Glass
Yes.
- [33:08]
Edgar Kerritt
And we saw. What's my take on it? No, I will not back down. But I'm saying, you know, the carpet is burning. Somebody step on it or put some water. Come on, Ira, please.
- [33:20]
Ira Glass
All right, I'm going to ask you one question about writing a short story. This question. Like, there's a paragraph in here that I don't understand why it's here. It's the second paragraph of one of my favorite stories in the book called Gondola. The first paragraph goes like this. His Tinder profile said his name was oshik. He was 38, married, no kids, looking for a serious relationship. Dorit, who wasn't new to online dating, had ever come across such an unusual line. And he said, it's so square and had such high cheekbones and enormous blue eyes. She was curious enough to give it a try. Okay, that's the first paragraph. That's the paragraph that's going to send the plot in motion of this married man getting involved with this single woman. But the second paragraph is the only other Oshik she'd ever known was her dad's uncle, an insurance broker from Netanya, and he was eaten by a shark. It was a big story back in the day, and there was an intimidating TV reporter at the Shiva who pounced on Dorit and her older sister Rotem, demanding to interview them. Rotem told her that Oshik was an angel now and that they would remember him forever. When the reporter asked Dorit what she would recall about uncle Oshek in 20 years, Dorit stammered that the thing she would always remember was that a shark had eaten him.
- [34:33]
And then the next paragraph goes back to the date Oshek suggested they meet at 5pm at a branch of the Stretch. And it's just like, what's that doing in there? We never refer back to it in the entire story. Like, why is that there?
- [34:48]
Edgar Kerritt
I think that, you know, it's about relationship, you know, relationship between people, relationship with the media, you know. So I think for me, there was something that made me like Dorit for saying that, because I think that many times you kind of create a situation in which you try to impose on somebody a set of answers, and whenever somebody's able not to. To answer the answer, but give something authentic, which I think is real, like you know, I think.
- [35:18]
Ira Glass
Oh, I totally understand it now. You're saying that she's somebody who knows her own mind and will follow a path that is not the one that you're supposed to.
- [35:26]
Edgar Kerritt
Yeah. Oh.
- [35:27]
Ira Glass
Which then is what happens in the story.
- [35:28]
Edgar Kerritt
Yeah. It's just to show.
- [35:32]
And, you know, we have this service that makes sense. We have this service, you know, if you buy a book, I can come to your living room and explain the stories.
- [35:42]
Because nobody gets them. But if I sit with you enough time, you're going to get them.
- [35:48]
Ira Glass
Okay. That is our time. I thank you for coming out tonight and huge thanks to you.
- [35:54]
Edgar Kerritt
Thank you, Ara. Thank you for coming.
- [35:56]
Ira Glass
Good night.
- [36:08]
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- [36:18]
Meg Wolitzer
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- [36:35]
Edgar Kerritt
Welcome back to Listen to youo Heart.
- [36:37]
Jerry
I'm Jerry and I'm Jerry's Heart.
- [36:39]
Edgar Kerritt
Today's topic, Repatha Evolocumab Heart. Why'd you pick this one?
- [36:43]
Jerry
Well, Jerry, for people who have had a heart attack like us, diet and exercise might not be enough to lower the risk of another one.
- [36:50]
Edgar Kerritt
Okay.
- [36:50]
Jerry
To help know if we're at risk, we should be getting our LDL C, our bad cholesterol checked, and talking to our doctor.
- [36:56]
Edgar Kerritt
I'm listening.
- [36:57]
Jerry
And if it's still too high, Repatha can be added to a statin to lower our LDL C and our heart attack risk.
- [37:03]
Edgar Kerritt
Hmm. Guess it's time to ask about Repatha.
- [37:06]
Repatha Medication Announcer
Do not take Repatha if you are allergic to it. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing or swallowing. Swelling of the face, lips, tongue, throat or arms. Common side effects include runny nose, sore throat, common cold symptoms, flu or flu like symptoms, back pain, high blood sugar and redness. Pain or bruising at the injection site.
- [37:27]
Edgar Kerritt
Listen to your heart.
- [37:28]
Jerry
Ask your doctor about Repatha. Learn more@repatha.com or call 1844 REPATHA.