Bonus: Meg Wolitzer Talks with Judy Blume

Summary

Detailed Summary of "Bonus: Meg Wolitzer Talks with Judy Blume" – Selected Shorts Podcast

Release Date: January 16, 2025

In this illuminating bonus episode of Selected Shorts, host Meg Wolitzer engages in a profound conversation with the iconic author Judy Blume. Their dialogue, rich with personal anecdotes and critical insights, delves deep into the pressing issue of book banning, the joys and challenges of being an author and bookseller, and the enduring impact of literature on readers of all ages.

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Introduction: A Meeting of Kindred Spirits [00:10]

The episode opens with Meg expressing her delight in conversing with Judy, highlighting their longstanding friendship and Judy's close bond with her mother.

Meg Wolitzer [00:10]: "Judy, so I am so happy to be talking to you. You are an old friend of mine and a very close friend of my mother's, and I'm always happy to have an excuse to have a conversation with you."

Judy reciprocates the sentiment warmly, setting a tone of mutual respect and affection.

The Surge of Book Banning: An Alarming Trend [00:45]

As the conversation unfolds on the eve of the 2024 election, Meg brings to the forefront the critical and distressing subject of book banning—a topic that is both painful and essential.

Meg Wolitzer [00:45]: "We're gonna be talking about something that's a painful, difficult, and really important topic, which is book banning."

Judy shares her anxiety over the current wave of book bans, expressing relief at having a platform to discuss the issue.

Judy Blume [00:32]: "I am high anxiety, Meg. High anxiety. But I'm so happy that I get to talk to you because maybe for a half an hour or so, I won't be thinking about it."

Government Involvement and Local Responses [01:06]

Judy elaborates on her surprise at the governmental roots of the recent surge in book banning, particularly pointing fingers at state legislators.

Judy Blume [01:06]: "I think what's surprising is that it's coming from government. You know, it's state legislators."

She shares a personal anecdote about living in Key West, Florida, and the local government's role in the proliferation of book bans.

Judy Blume [01:28]: "I live in Key West. But the reality is it is part of Florida, and we have the same government and we have the same governor, and we have had so much book banning in this state that Pan America opened an office in Miami. Pan America Florida."

Meg marvels at the extent of the issue, prompting Judy to discuss the ongoing legal battles and grassroots movements opposing censorship.

Judy Blume [02:42]: "They started a group because they wanted their kids to have the freedom to read."

Personal Encounters with Censorship [02:54]

Reflecting on her personal experiences, Judy recounts her appearance on the Phil Donahue Show, where she confronted a woman advocating for censorship.

Judy Blume [02:54]: "I remember many, many, many, many years ago on the Phil Donahue Show... she said, you are Judy Blume. Why would anybody be afraid of you?"

This encounter underscores the often unfounded fears that drive book banning efforts.

Impact on Contemporary Literature [04:27]

Meg discusses her own experiences with book banning, highlighting the frustration of having her middle-grade book, To Night Owl from Dogfish, targeted despite its innocent themes.

Meg Wolitzer [04:27]: "It made state lists. But then the book has gotten heavily banned simply for saying that these girls grow up in families with gay fathers."

Judy confirms the trend, noting that LGBTQ topics and sexual content are the most challenged areas in literature today.

Judy Blume [04:39]: "This is what I hear. Is that anything to do with race?"

Childhood Freedom and Reading [04:52]

Judy reminisces about her childhood, where reading was encouraged rather than restricted, contrasting sharply with the current climate of censorship.

Judy Blume [04:52]: "But not. That's the interesting thing about my family... reading was good."

She shares a poignant story about her determination to read Rage to Live by John O'Hara, despite parental restrictions, highlighting her early resilience against censorship.

Judy Blume [07:53]: "I stayed up all night reading it and didn't cause any harm that I know of."

Exploring New Creative Horizons [08:11]

Shifting to lighter topics, Meg discusses the success of the movie adaptation of Judy's beloved book, Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret, expressing a personal connection to the character Margaret.

Meg Wolitzer [08:11]: "I've had a wonderful couple of years with the movie... and I am myself a Margaret."

Judy humbly deflects the praise, maintaining her characteristic modesty.

Judy Blume [08:11]: "Oh, you are. Let me just be normal and regular like everybody else."

The Authenticity of Judy's Writing [08:37]

Meg probes into whether Judy's candid discussions of sexuality in her books were intentional or naturally evolved elements of her storytelling.

Judy Blume [08:37]: "Totally naturally... I just knew I wanted to write a book that told about the kind of kid I was."

Judy emphasizes the autobiographical elements of her characters, rooted in her real-life experiences and observations.

The Books and Books Endeavor [10:14]

Transitioning to Judy's role as a bookseller, she and her husband George discuss their bookstore, Books and Books in Key West, and the evolving landscape of reader preferences.

Judy Blume [10:54]: "I love being a bookseller and I love talking to them... romance novels have become so big that we have to change a part of our store and make more room for it."

She highlights the significant portion of vacationing tourists who frequent their store, seeking leisurely reads during their stays.

Judy Blume [12:01]: "Maybe 75 or 85% of the people who buy books at our store are on vacation. They're tourists."

Staying Connected with Literature [12:45]

When asked about her own reading habits, Judy candidly admits that she doesn't always keep up with every genre but remains passionate about fiction.

Judy Blume [12:45]: "So you know, I read a lot of fiction. I love fiction."

She shares her current reading list, including works by Elizabeth Strout and her friend Jami Attenberg, demonstrating her continued engagement with contemporary literature.

The Enduring Connection with Readers [14:00]

Judy reflects on the lasting impact of her work, noting that while she may not be writing new books, the letters from readers continue to affirm the significance of her stories.

Judy Blume [14:26]: "This is why we want kids to be able to choose books."

Meg echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the timeless influence of literature on individuals.

Conclusion: A Shared Commitment to Literature [14:44]

As the conversation draws to a close, both Meg and Judy express their mutual appreciation and reaffirm their dedication to fostering a vibrant and free literary culture.

Judy Blume [14:53]: "Thank you for everything you do, too, Mae."

Meg Wolitzer [14:56]: "I love your books. Thank you."

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Key Takeaways:

• Judy Blume's Advocacy: Judy stands as a staunch opponent of book banning, drawing from her personal experiences and professional challenges to champion literary freedom.

• Governmental Influence: The conversation sheds light on the alarming role of state legislators in perpetuating book bans, particularly in regions like Florida.

• Literary Resilience: Both Judy and Meg emphasize the enduring power of books to shape lives, inspire readers, and foster connections across generations.

• Role of Independent Bookstores: Through Judy's insights into her bookstore, the discussion highlights the vital role of indie bookstores in promoting diverse literary tastes and supporting authors.

• Personal Connections: The heartfelt exchange underscores the deep bonds formed through literature, with both hosts and guests acknowledging the profound impact of books on their personal and professional lives.

This episode serves as a compelling reminder of the importance of safeguarding literary freedom and the collective responsibility to ensure that books remain a free and open medium for all voices.

Transcript

[Meg Wolitzer]

Judy, So I am so happy to be talking to you. You are an old friend of mine and a very close friend of my mother's, and I'm always happy to have an excuse to have a conversation with you.

[Judy Blume]

Oh, thank you.

[Meg Wolitzer]

And we are. Thank you. We are talking today, a day before election day in November 2024. How are you feeling?

[Judy Blume]

I am high anxiety, Meg. High anxiety. But I'm so happy that I get to talk to you because maybe for a half an hour or so, I won't be thinking about it.

[Meg Wolitzer]

I know, I know. It's the greatest distraction. Although I will say we're gonna be talking about something that's a painful, difficult, and really important topic, which is book banning. And your books have been banned for decades, and you are a huge advocate against book banning. But have you been surprised by the surge of book banning in our country?

[Judy Blume]

I think what's surprising is that it's coming from government. You know, it's state legislators. I can never say the plural of that word correctly. Those just slavers that are doing it. I live in a state. We like to pretend that Key west, of course, is not part of Florida.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Right.

[Judy Blume]

I live in Key West. But the reality is it is part of Florida, and we have the same government and we have the same governor, and we have had so much book banning in this state that Pan America opened an office in Miami. Pan America Florida.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Incredible.

[Judy Blume]

To try to deal with all the book banning.

[Meg Wolitzer]

And what kind of results have they had with this office?

[Judy Blume]

That's a very good question. I'm not sure I know the answer. There are lawsuits going on. I don't think that the results are in yet. I also know of a couple of moms up in the Miami area, maybe even in other counties, who started their own group, the antithesis of Moms for Liberty, which is very big in Florida. They started a group, they said, we're just moms. And of course, nobody is just a mom, but they're moms who care. And they started a group because they wanted their kids to have the freedom to read.

[Meg Wolitzer]

How great that's.

[Judy Blume]

And to choose.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Yeah. Have you ever sat down, I'm curious. And talked to somebody who wanted to ban your books to try to just have a conversation with them? Has that ever happened?

[Judy Blume]

I remember many, many, many, many years ago on the Phil Donahue Show. You know, at the beginning of all of this, I went to Chicago. I think his show was to be on the Phil Donahue Show. And I remember, you know, I was young and I was wearing a Sweater. And this woman who talked a lot about changing the world order, those were code words, and wanted to ban my books, was there. And she looked at me and she said, you are Judy Blume. Why would anybody be afraid of you?

[Meg Wolitzer]

Right.

[Judy Blume]

No. And so she talked about her viewpoint.

[Meg Wolitzer]

But that was as close, but I.

[Judy Blume]

Don'T think it was a discussion.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Well, it is so strange to me, the fear involved in all of this. I mean, I wrote a middle grade book called To Night Owl from Dogfish with my friend, the wonderful writer Holly Goldberg Sloan. And it was about two girls whose single gay dads fall in love and want the girls to be friends and go to camp together. So it had a kind of parent trap vibe. And the girls want nothing to do with each other and there's absolutely no sexual content. We say that the girls dads are gay and dating and that is it. And it made state lists. But then the book has gotten heavily banned simply for saying that these girls grow up in families with gay fathers. And that is so infuriating and upsetting to me. Yeah.

[Judy Blume]

Of course there's a lot of that, you know, anything having to do.

[Meg Wolitzer]

With lgbtq, that's the most challenged sexual orientation, I think. And sex related things are the most challenged books. Is that correct?

[Judy Blume]

This is what I hear. Is that anything to do with race?

[Meg Wolitzer]

Were there any books that you read when you were young that probably would have been forbidden if your parents or librarians had known that you were reading it?

[Judy Blume]

Many, many, many. But not. That's the interesting thing about my family. You know, my mother was a fearful and anxious parent, but books were never, never something that she forbade or was afraid of. Books were good. You know, reading was good. I grew up in a family with a lot of books around, a lot of bookshelves full of books. And nobody ever said to me, you know, don't read this book, don't read that book. I was free to take them off. And by the time I was 12, by the time I was in sixth grade, this is what I was reading. There were no YA books.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Right.

[Judy Blume]

Maybe I was lucky, I don't know. So there weren't a lot of books about teenagers, but I was reading all of these wonderful adult books. Did I understand everything? Of course not. But I knew I was reading about the world of grown ups and that's what interested me. And sure, you know, today those books might still be on my parents bookshelves and I would be lucky enough to be able to read them, but I wouldn't be able to, maybe even Check them out of the library. In fact, I was not allowed to check out of the library the Rage to live by John O'Hara. I was not allowed to check that out of the library. When O'Hara came up on my reading list when I was a junior, and I remember in high school, and I remember that book because that is the only book that my mother kind of jokingly said to me, I was 10 when she was reading it. And she said, now don't ever, ever look in this book, and especially not this page. And so ever after. That was a book I wanted to read. We had a lot of O'Hara on the bookshelves in my house, and I liked those books, but we did not have their age to live.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Well, there's a fairy tale quality to that story. Whatever you do, don't open that door, you know, and it gives books to create that sort of mythology around a book. Creates an excitement, makes it into a sort of hot object of sorts.

[Judy Blume]

Yeah. And you know how I got it? So I went to the library. They wouldn't give it to me without parental permission. And I came home and I was so angry. And for some reason, I must have been talking to my aunt, who was an elementary school principal, lived very close. She said, do you want to read that book? No problem. I'll bring you my copy. And she brought it over and as a joke, she had put paper clips in it. Not on the. Not on pages that were forbidden, but she had just put in paperclips. That's wonderful in there. And I, you know, I stayed up all night reading it and didn't cause any harm that I know of.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Perhaps the opposite as. And you're such a prolific writer, are you Zaragod?

[Judy Blume]

It's me, Margaret.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Let's talk about some less disturbing topics that may be even more distracting on this day, before this consequential election day. You've had a wonderful couple of years with the movie of Are youe There, God? It's Me, Margaret. Based on a book that was a personal favorite of mine, and particularly because, in fact, I am myself a Margaret.

[Judy Blume]

Oh, you are. Let me just be normal and regular like everybody else. Just please, please, please, please, please, please, please.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Yeah. And I did, in fact, try to improve my so called bust. But there's a word you don't hear anymore, right? Do people say bust? I wanted to ask you that. If you hear it.

[Judy Blume]

I don't think so.

[Meg Wolitzer]

I don't think so. Right. Was it a conscious decision to deal with what we call Frank Material in your books, or did that just come about naturally?

[Judy Blume]

Totally naturally. You know, when I was going to write Margaret, I knew nothing, Meg. You know, I didn't know any writers. I didn't know anybody who had ever written anything. And I just knew I wanted to write a book that told about the kind of kid I was, you know, what was on my mind when I was in sixth grade.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Right.

[Judy Blume]

It's really autobiographical in that Margaret, the character is so much based on me, except that, you know, the family situation is very different.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Yeah. There's a line from a Zadie Smith essay that I'm always quoting. I just love it so much. She says, when I write, I'm trying to express my way of being in the world. And I feel like you certainly have done that.

[Judy Blume]

Oh, thank you.

[Meg Wolitzer]

And then some years ago, you celebrated your 80th birthday at Symphony Space, and I had the pleasure of hosting that party. And it was really fun with all kinds of guests on stage. And we also did an event in 2015 for your most recent adult novel in the unlikely event. And at the time, you weren't sure that you wanted to write novels in the future. You have, and I'm curious. I wanted to check in with you about that now and wonder where you stand on writing.

[Judy Blume]

I'm glad I did it.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Yeah.

[Judy Blume]

But I don't want to do it anymore. I do actually have one little tiny something that I might want to write.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Good.

[Judy Blume]

A memoir of my very early years. I might still want to do that.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Oh, that would be great.

[Judy Blume]

George is encouraging me very much to do that, you know, but I don't. I have a bookstore.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Well, I would.

[Judy Blume]

So I'm very, very busy.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Judy, you and your husband George, are bookstore founders. You founded Books and Books in Key West, Florida, and you're part of a club of well known writers who get involved in bookstores running owning bookstores. You join Ann Patchett, who owns Parnassus in Nashville, Emma Straub, who owns Books Are Magic in Brooklyn, Louise Erdrich, who owns Birch Bark Books in Minnesota, and Lauren Groff, who owns the Links in Gainesville, Florida. Indie bookstores, we all know are vital to the reading culture in the country. But I am curious because you've been a writer and a reader for a really long time, but have you learned something new about the kinds of books that people want to read?

[Judy Blume]

I think you learn a lot talking to your customers when you're on the floor of a bookstore. I love being a bookseller and I love talking to them. And in the last book few years, something has happened which is interesting to me, and that is the romance novel has become so big that we have to change a part of our store and make more room for it, because when we started out eight years ago, we didn't have any romance novels. And they have just become so important. You know, people who come to Key west are on vacation. And I would say that, you know, 75 or 85% of the people who buy books at our store are on vacation. They're tourists. And a lot of them come in and say, oh, I want to read something. I want to read a vacation book. You know, you mentioned Emma Straub, and of course she's got these books that are vacation. I can't think of the titles now.

[Meg Wolitzer]

The Vacationers.

[Judy Blume]

The Vacationers. Right. And often the women will want a romance novel. So that's different.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Have you read different kinds of things that you wouldn't necessarily ordinarily read so that you're on top of what's in your store?

[Judy Blume]

I'm very bad.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Really.

[Judy Blume]

You know, there's only so much time.

[Meg Wolitzer]

I know.

[Judy Blume]

And I read the books that I want to read. Yeah, Yeah. I like to know what's out there. I mean, I'm just coming off a time of less time to read than usual, and now I'm getting back into it, and I just bought a whole bunch of books at the store and.

[Meg Wolitzer]

How exciting.

[Judy Blume]

And yes, I buy books at my store.

[Meg Wolitzer]

What's in your pile to read anything.

[Judy Blume]

Okay, in my pile is. And what I'm reading now is.

[Meg Wolitzer]

I know. I hate this question.

[Judy Blume]

Safekeep. Safekeep.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Oh, I don't know what that is.

[Judy Blume]

Oh, it's very good. It's by a Dutch writer. It's her first novel.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Oh, fabulous.

[Judy Blume]

I brought home Elizabeth Strout's new book. I brought home. Who is the young, the British writer who has a new book.

[Meg Wolitzer]

This is. This is all our conversations with my friends. Right. And they usually are phone enhanced. We need Google to help us have a noise, but it sounds like you have some good, exciting things. How great did you get to.

[Judy Blume]

Oh, and I brought home my good friend. She wrote the Middle Steams.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Oh, Jami Attenberg, my friend, too. Yes, thank you.

[Judy Blume]

She's my friend. I brought home Jami Attenberg's new book, and George is, I think, about to finish that.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Oh, it has the telephone on the COVID I can picture it.

[Judy Blume]

It does. It does.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Yeah. It's got a great cover. Oh, good. Yeah, I'm looking forward to reading that as well.

[Judy Blume]

So you know, I read a lot of fiction. I love fiction.

[Meg Wolitzer]

So your life is just packed. I mean, and you still must get mail from young readers or old readers who loved you when you were young.

[Judy Blume]

I do get a lot of mail. Still not like what I used to get, you know, in the days when people sat down and wrote letters.

[Meg Wolitzer]

It's still so touching when someone reaches out to a writer because you feel that connection of what a book meant, and you don't know what it's going to do. Right.

[Judy Blume]

Yeah. And of course, I'm not writing new books, so I'm not, you know, getting those letters. No, the letters are all from books.

[Meg Wolitzer]

That were written, but it means that they matter. And it's. We don't need more evidence that your books or that other books matter. But it's, to me, a wonderful thing that books last and have a life in the world and can affect people in ways we'll never know.

[Judy Blume]

This is true. This is why we want kids to be able to choose books.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Absolutely. Well, it's so great, Judy, and thank you for all the amazing work you do.

[Judy Blume]

Thank you for everything you do, too, Mae.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Of course.

[Judy Blume]

I love your books.

[Meg Wolitzer]

Thank you. And likewise.