Podcast Summary: Selected Shorts – Meg Wolitzer Talks to Author Michael Cunningham

Episode Overview

This bonus episode features novelist Meg Wolitzer in a warm, insightful conversation with Pulitzer Prize-winning author Michael Cunningham. The discussion centers around Cunningham’s story "Jacked"—a reimagining of the fairy tale Jack and the Beanstalk from his collection A Wild Swan. Together, the authors delve into the enduring allure of fairy tales, the mysteries of writerly sensibility, the joys of punctuation (notably the semicolon), the connection between writing and performance, and their shared passion for Scrabble. The tone is vibrant, honest, and playful, making the episode an engaging treat for literary enthusiasts and writers alike.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Reimagining Fairy Tales and "Jacked"

• Michael Cunningham’s Connection to Fairy Tales
  • Cunningham recalls childhood nights when his mother read him fairy tales, sparking lifelong questions about stories’ unresolved endings (02:27).
  • Quote: “They lived happily ever after and my mother would stop reading and I would say, go on. And she would say, well, that's the end of the story. That can’t be the end...” (02:44 — Michael Cunningham).
  • His collection A Wild Swan stems from his adult attempt to answer the questions of his child self: “This collection... are kind of myself as an adult trying to answer myself as a very small child and say, well, this is what happens happily ever after.” (03:38 — Cunningham).
  • “Jack and the Beanstalk” intrigued him because of its abrupt ending and curious character motivations (04:01).

Writerly Sensibility: The Unconscious and the Instinctive

• Defining and Evading Sensibility
  • Cunningham contends that sensibility is something writers possess without conscious awareness. Becoming too aware can, paradoxically, stifle creativity.
    • Quote: “I am not sure if I can answer it. I’m sure I have a sensibility, but I don’t think of myself as having a sensibility. I simply… write the way I write about what I want to write about.” (05:29)
  • He discusses how recognizing his own creative patterns made him deliberately seek new challenges, favoring discomfort over predictability. (05:56)
  • Wolitzer and Cunningham agree that the job of defining a writer’s sensibility belongs to readers and critics, not the writers themselves (07:44).

Influence, Homage, and the Joy of Punctuation

• Literary Influence & Technique
  • Wolitzer points out Cunningham's use of intertextuality—most notably in The Hours—and the idea of standing “on the shoulders” of past writers (07:49).
  • Cunningham shares how writing The Hours challenged him to reflect, not mimic, Virginia Woolf’s style:
    • “I didn’t want to try to imitate Woolf’s voice. But I wanted to reflect it. I have never before and never since used so many parentheticals, semicolons and et cetera.” (08:33)
• The Semicolon as Art
  • Both authors enthusiastically defend the semicolon and its subtle musicality in prose.
    • “I will go to battle for the semicolon. In the punctuation wars, I will be very much with semicolon brigade.” (09:18 — Cunningham)
    • Wolitzer likens it to “arrest in a piece of music... [giving] you that pause... to think and feel.” (09:29)

The Art of Reading Aloud and Performance

• Reading as Interpretation

  • The conversation shifts to the interpretive art of reading—on the page and aloud.
    • “What makes a good reader is really, I think fundamentally anyone who is... there for the ride. Anyone who wants to actually take leave of their own lives and enter a life that is not theirs.” (11:00 — Cunningham)
  • Cunningham highlights the unique quality of actors interpreting stories for Selected Shorts versus writers reading their own work.
    • “Too many writers, bless us all, are not very compelling readers... We are not in show business.” (12:27)

• Personal Experiences with Reading

  • Both authors describe their own paths to becoming engaging readers.
    • Wolitzer recounts feedback from John Irving: “I loved what you read, but I think you should work on how you read it. And I guess what I've said to students is sort of like, read it like you mean it.” (15:17)
    • Cunningham jokes about reading even sentimental prose as if the feeling is “almost too much,” selling it through restraint (16:16).

• Theatrical Yearnings

  • The writers bond over their shared love for theater and performance, including dreams of attending adult theater camp together (16:40).

• Writing as Performance

  • Cunningham draws a parallel between writing and performing for a live audience:
    • “Writing fiction is, in a certain sense, performative... You are saying, by implication, if you publish a book, stop what you’re doing and read this.” (17:32)
    • He compares publishing to “putting a note in a bottle and throwing it into the ocean” (17:59).
    • Cunningham jokes about his lack of singing talent but relishes when his work inspires opera, as The Hours did at the Met (19:06).

Craft Insights and Literary Satisfaction

• Delayed Gratification & the Writer’s Life
  • Wolitzer muses on how writing demands patience, with rewards coming slowly but meaningfully (19:53).
  • Cunningham notes that fleeting moments of mastery—what he calls being able to “sing” through prose—sustain writers through difficulties:
    • “There are... times... when you feel like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I can sing in this way... using to the very best of my ability, whatever gifts I may have. And that's what you live for, right?” (20:15)

Language Games: Scrabble and the Writer’s Mind

• Writers and Word Games

  • The authors’ shared love of Scrabble opens into a meditation on the pleasures and creative parallels of word games.
    • “To me, the language and the beauty of letters jumping around, like jumping Beans. And moving somewhere and making other words is so glorious.” (21:06 — Wolitzer)
    • Cunningham connects the fascination with words in games to the core impulse of writing:
      • “Probably just about as important is this sort of slightly mysterious, endless fascination with how letters form words and words form sentences...” (21:49)
    • Scrabble and writing both involve the creative arrangement of existing elements (23:18).

• A Final Analogy

  • Cunningham notes that writing is distinguished from other art forms by its reliance on arranging finite, existing elements—words and letters—just like in Scrabble (23:18–24:03).

Closing Moments

• Appreciation and Playfulness
  • Wolitzer expresses gratitude for the conversation and their camaraderie:
    • “Well, Michael, we've covered a lot of ground here. I'm so happy to talk to you today and have other people listen, and I look forward to talking to you when they're not and playing more games and learning anagrams and reading your next novel and everything that awaits.” (24:03)
  • They sign off with plans for future games and friendship (24:24).

Notable Quotes With Timestamps

• “That can’t be the end of the story. What if Snow White... doesn't even know this prince. He was just somebody wandering through the woods and he kissed a dead body in a glass casket. What does he think is gonna happen when he takes her to the castle?” (02:44 — Michael Cunningham)
• “This collection... [is] kind of myself as an adult trying to answer myself as a very small child and say, well, this is what happens happily ever after.” (03:38 — Michael Cunningham)
• “I want to remain nervous and fearful. And so I put that away and started something that is making me appropriately nervous and fearful.” (06:10 — Michael Cunningham)
• “I will go to battle for the semicolon. And in the punctuation wars, I will be very much with semicolon brigade.” (09:18 — Michael Cunningham)
• “What makes a good reader is really, I think fundamentally anyone who is... there for the ride. Anyone who wants to actually take leave of their own lives and enter a life that is not theirs.” (11:00 — Michael Cunningham)
• "Writing fiction is, in a certain sense, performative. Because you are trying to capture and hold a reader’s attention. You are saying... stop what you’re doing and read this.” (17:32 — Michael Cunningham)
• “Writing is the art form that is most entirely based on arranging and rearranging existing elements.” (23:18 — Michael Cunningham)

Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:27] — Cunningham on fairy tales and his mother’s storytelling
• [03:38] — Transition from childhood wonderings to adult stories
• [05:29] — Discussion on writerly sensibility
• [07:49] — The influence of past writers (The Hours and Woolf)
• [08:33] — On writing in Woolf’s style; the role of punctuation
• [09:18] — The defense (and joy) of the semicolon
• [11:00] — What makes a good (aloud or silent) reader
• [12:27] — The special quality of actor-readers vs. writers
• [15:17] — Wolitzer’s lesson from John Irving on performance
• [17:32] — The performative dimension of fiction writing
• [19:06] — On The Hours as an opera
• [20:15] — The writer’s joy in crafting a great sentence
• [21:06] — Scrabble as metaphor for literary play
• [23:18] — Writing as arranging finite elements: the Scrabble analogy
• [24:03] — Closing thanks and plans for future games

Conclusion

This lively episode overflows with warmth, wit, and wisdom about the writing life. Meg Wolitzer and Michael Cunningham’s rapport brings out deep reflections on why stories endure, how writers both embrace and elude their “sensibility,” and the tiny building blocks—letters, punctuation, word play—that provide endless joy for those who love language. Their conversation walks the line between the solitary, often mysterious practice of writing and the communal, performative joy of storytelling and play. Anyone captivated by stories, writers, or the intricacies of literary craft will find inspiration and laughter here.