Darnell Lamont Walker: A Death Doula's Lessons For Dying With Few Regrets

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Self-Conscious with Chrissy Teigen
Episode: Darnell Lamont Walker: A Death Doula’s Lessons For Dying With Few Regrets
Host: Chrissy Teigen
Guest: Darnell Lamont Walker
Date: February 12, 2026

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Main Theme

This episode explores the human experience of death through the lens of Darnell Lamont Walker, a death doula. Rather than focusing on morbidity, the conversation unearths the lessons dying can teach the living—emphasizing honesty, presence, legacy, and living with fewer regrets. Both Chrissy and Darnell navigate cultural taboos, candid family realities, and the practical, emotional, and spiritual aspects of helping people die well, die seen, and die connected.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is a Death Doula?

• Definition & Roles
  • Darnell provides a comprehensive definition, likening death doulas to birth doulas who support people in transition.
  • They “help people transition at the end of their life… help you plan… help people tell their story before they go… a blueprint… a legacy.” (04:33)
• Multifaceted Work
  • Death doulas’ responsibilities may include: legacy projects, family communication, planning funerals, intervening with medical teams, coaching families through end-of-life and aftercare, and offering grief support.

2. Acceptance, Humor, & Clarity at the End

• Facing death with certainty allows many to release fear and embrace frankness or even humor:
  • “It’s crazy how fast we accept it… when you know there’s no choice.” (03:11, Darnell)
• Both note that open acknowledgment of impending death can paradoxically foster freedom and connection.

3. Legacy, Storytelling, & Intergenerational Memory

• Recording and Passing Down Stories
  • Tools like the Away Message App and prompts such as The Death Deck help families preserve voices and wishes. (05:15)
  • Darnell prompts people: “How do you want to die? What’s the last song you want to hear? Who do you want to come back and get you?” (05:58)
• Witnessing as Core Value
  • Darnell’s grandmother modeled this work by caring for dying relatives, especially during the AIDS crisis, teaching him: “People want to be witnessed, even if they can’t be loved.” (10:17)

4. Deathbed Phenomena & Afterlife Experiences

• Darnell shares that nearly all of his clients “see” someone—family, pets, ancestors—during their final moments. “I see it far too often to believe that it doesn’t happen.” (06:24)
• Memorable anecdote: “There are stories of people whose whole family came back… what a hell of a welcoming party.” (06:24)

5. Common Regrets at Life’s End

• “Biggest regret people have is that: ‘I wish I had lived my life for me.’” (12:13, Darnell)
• Unhealed relationships, unlived happiness, unspoken truths—Darnell strives to help clients address these in their final days; even facilitating letters or reconciliations.

6. Navigating Family Conflict in Death

• Family disputes and pettiness commonly arise—over inheritances, funerals, or unresolved emotional business.
• Darnell: “Funerals bring out the pettiness of folks.” (17:19)

7. 'The Death Rally' & Miracles

• The death rally: an observable burst of energy some get shortly before death. Families often perceive this as improvement; doulas recognize it as a final opportunity for connection and closure. (19:59)
• “People know when they’re going to die… they use that moment to say things that need saying.” (21:26)

8. Living Funerals & "Giving the Flowers While They're Alive"

• Living funerals—gatherings to honor people before they die—are celebrated as a way of giving people their ‘flowers’ in the here and now, rather than waiting.
• “Why are we waiting to die to know what we meant to people?” (27:17)

9. Death Preparation: Practical & Emotional

• Darnell encourages everyone (regardless of age or health) to consider wishes—funeral details, legacy instructions, and “everything that feels important.”
• Being prepared can minimize familial discord and increase peace for all.
• “Death is not an emergency. It’s happened. We don’t have to figure it out right now.” (36:12)

10. Industry Realities: Funeral Homes & Natural Burials

• Chrissy & Darnell discuss the business of death—funeral homes charging “$15,000 for a funeral… $25,000 for cremation.” (33:11)
• Alternatives like “natural burial grounds” offer environmentally friendly, affordable options. (35:19)

11. Children and Death

• Be honest and direct when talking about death with children; use real language, answer questions, and don’t avoid the topic. (29:17)

12. Support in Grief

• The biggest mistake after someone dies? Trying to do it all alone. The importance of accepting help, leaning on community, and asking for support cannot be overstated. (42:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Acceptance:
  • “It’s crazy how fast we accept it… when we know there’s no choice.” (03:11, Darnell)
• On Legacy:
  • “We all have to tell those stories. We have to tell the stories.” (11:14, Darnell)
• On Regret:
  • “Biggest regret people have is that: ‘I wish I had lived my life for me.’” (12:13, Darnell)
• On the End:
  • “There’s a joy there, even for them. It’s like, I wasn’t alone. I got to tell my story. I got to connect with the people that I love so much.” (07:40, Darnell)
• On Confronting Death:
  • “You don’t need training to care. Just heart, honesty, and time.” (00:03, Chrissy, paraphrasing Darnell)
• On Living Funerals:
  • “Why are we waiting to die to get these things? Or to know what we meant to people, that’s the big thing.” (27:17, Darnell)
• On Asking for Help:
  • “A lot of times we retreat, go into ourselves, and feel that we have to do it alone… but we don’t do it. Go get that help.” (42:05, Darnell)
• On Honesty in Death:
  • “Tell the truth about me, right? … He was in pain for weeks.” (29:07, Darnell)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:23–04:33: What is a death doula?
• 05:15–06:24: Legacy planning; questions for the dying
• 06:24–07:40: Deathbed visions and family at the end
• 10:17–11:44: The value of witnessing, modeled by Darnell’s grandmother
• 12:06–14:20: The most common regrets at life’s end
• 19:59–22:26: ‘Death rally’ phenomenon and using the final burst of energy
• 25:56–27:17: Living funerals and giving flowers in life
• 29:17–30:35: Honest conversations about death with children
• 33:11–36:12: The business of funerals and ethical alternatives
• 39:46–41:00: The importance of advance preparation and clear wishes
• 42:05: The single biggest mistake in grief: “not relying on the people who said will be there for them.”

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Toolkit: Darnell’s 8 Steps to Dying With Fewer Regrets

(43:14–47:27)

1. Get Brutally Honest With Yourself:
   • “What are you pretending not to know? What stories have you never dealt with? If you had limited time, what would matter?”
2. Embrace Your Mortality:
   • “Once you really understand time is limited, it changes how you move.”
3. Find Your Truth:
   • “Live in alignment with what’s real for you. When you stop performing, you start living.”
4. Tell Your Story:
   • “Your life is a story… you can still change the plot while you’re alive.”
5. Let Go of Perfection:
   • “Perfection robs us of presence… go ahead and mess it up a little bit.”
6. Connect With Others:
   • “If you want to die with fewer regrets, love harder, forgive quicker, let people know what they mean now.”
7. Define Your Own Success:
   • “At the end, no one says, ‘I wish I had another promotion.’ They say, ‘I wish I had more mornings with my kids.’”
8. Reflect, Adjust, and Live With Intention:
   • “You’re supposed to grow. Keep asking, ‘Am I living in alignment with who I am today?’ ... Dying with fewer regrets isn’t about doing everything. It’s about doing what matters. And the good news is, you’re not dead yet. You still get to rewrite the story.”

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Tone and Atmosphere

• Honest, intimate, warm, sometimes irreverent.
• Both host and guest balance gravity with lightness, humor, and a practical, loving sensibility.
• The conversation makes death accessible, actionable, and rooted in community.

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For Listeners

This episode is a heartfelt, insightful guide to ending well—living fully by embracing, rather than denying, death’s place in our lives. It is full of actionable wisdom for anyone seeking peace, meaning, and connection now and at the end.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to Self Conscious with Chrissy Teigen, an Audible original podcast. Join me as we explore the cutting edge of health, wellness, and personal growth with the world's leading experts and thinkers. From inspiring stories to actionable insights, our conversations aim to help you lead a healthier, happier, and more productive life. Today, we're talking about death. I know. Stay with me. This conversation isn't dark. It's human. It's full of love, honesty, and hope. My guest today is Darnell Lamont Walker. He is a death doula. He helps families find peace at the end of life. We'll learn how to support someone through their last burst of energy. And why grief doesn't always look like tears. And how culture, faith, and ritual shape the way we say goodbye. Darnell reminds us that presence matters more than perfection, that you don't need training to care, just heart, honesty, and time. This episode isn't about making death pretty. It's about making it. Shared Darnell Lamont Walker. Welcome to Self Conscious. Darnell, thank you so much for being here on Self Conscious.

[B]

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm so welcome.

[A]

It's nice to meet you. This is such a fascinating topic. I first learned about death doulas working on a project where there is a group of people that are terminally ill. They're of all ages. Like, like, literally it can be like 13 to like 70. And they've all been given the end of life diagnosis. So it's not like, is this going to happen? There's no dancing around it. Like, they're facing, this is happening, this is happening. And one thing that was really interesting to me was that when people hear that, for some reason, it seems to be so much easier to accept than like, maybe this is going to happen. There's like a certain humor that comes with it where they're like, we're facing this, it's happening. And they tend to be open and free.

[B]

Thinking about that. Like, I remember a few years ago I was in Banos, Ecuador, and I went to go bungee jumping. And I knew it like a week before someone died there, bungee jumping. But they were doing it on their own. I went with the company and I remember the guy is holding my legs and he's like, jump. And I'm like, well, let my legs go. And he's like, no, no, no, you have to jump and then I'll let you go. And I'm like, that doesn't sound right. But, you know, all right, cool. And I jump. And as soon as I jump, he's like, oh, shit, I forgot the chord. Immediately. My first thought was, oh, all right. Then I just opened my arms up and it was like, this is how I go.

[A]

Tell me. It wasn't one of those, like, TikTok jokes.

[B]

It was a full joke. I thought about how quickly we accept that, like, when we know there's no choice. I had a boss who was on a flight that was going down. Thankfully it didn't, but he said, you know, the first thing I thought was, well, this is all right, but I hope I paid my insurance.

[A]

Yeah, it's going back a little bit.

[B]

It's crazy how fast we accept it. So that group, it's like, I've accepted it. It's coming. There's nothing I can do about it. Let's live these last days.

[A]

Can you explain what a death doula is?

[B]

Absolutely. So at its core, a death doula is someone who helps the person transition at the end of their life. As a death doula and as someone who knows many death doulas at this point and so many end of life caregivers, hospice caregivers, we all do so many different things for those people at the end of their life. I myself, I'm a writer by trade, and so my job as a death duelist, to come in and not only help you die, help you plan, which I'm so glad you're doing that because you're so far ahead of that, but also I'm here to help people tell their story before they go, because I think it's so important that we share what we have, that we share how we've lived, what we've done, who we've known as a blueprint, but also as something that we can leave behind, this legacy. Right? And if you're planning and you are setting your kids up for the financial part and all these things that you. You should also set them up with the stories and the lives you've lived. And so that's what I also come in and do. And there are so many who come in and only do the planning. They only do the bedside vigils. They only do the funeral preparations. Teaching others how to clean the body. There's, you know, very specific things. And I also help fight the medical team if I need to, and help the family.

[A]

Because like a birth doula, you got to be that middle person.

[B]

You got to find those people you trust that will do it for you.

[A]

Yeah, that speak up for you and.

[B]

Speak up for you when you can't. And even for the family, that's left behind. I do a lot of work with them and a lot of us do as well, helping them move through that grief. We've all experienced grief, whether it's death, loss or loss of a job, loss of a relationship, whatever that is helping them move through that.

[A]

When I was talking to friends and stuff, they were sharing with me all these different things you can do now, these things that you are able to ask your elderly family members about their life and be able to record it or film it. And it just seemed like there were so many different programs and options to do things like that.

[B]

There's so many now. I get so many apps. There's. Oh, gosh. But I know there's one called the Away app, the Away Message app, where you can leave a message to be played for your family when you go, you know, I can call into this service and hear your voice one last time. There are games as well. There's one called the Death Deck and the End of Life deck, and they just came out with the Dementia deck. But it's questions you can ask your family members and the people you love and your friends, while they're still seemingly healthy, maybe, or haven't quite reached the end and can still respond to. Find out what do I want? You know, how do I want to die? Which is one of the first questions I ask people all the time.

[A]

We talk about it. We talk about it all. It's not a serious thing unless, I guess, it's written down or you're recording it or something.

[B]

One of the questions I ask people is how do you want to die? And what's the last song you want to hear? I ask everyone that.

[A]

Is there a popular song that people ask for?

[B]

No. I've had two people repeat a song and that was the Thrill is gone by B.B. king.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And then the other is, who do you want to come back and get you when it's time to go? Like when I'm with someone who's dying, they always see a family member, a grandmother.

[A]

How common is it for them to see a deceased family member?

[B]

Oh, yeah. So I'd say every client that I've had, except maybe one that doesn't it. I don't recall that one. But every client that I've had has seen someone. My friend Omar, it was his grandmother who came back for him. Like I was saying, my friend for her dad, it was the dogs. But there's always someone. I just watched a video the other day of this woman recording her grandfather in hospice, and he's Just reaching up for something, and it's like someone's there. I talk about George Floyd in the George Floyd video. He's on the ground and the cop is on his neck, but he's calling, mom, Mama, Mama, Mama. His mom's been dead for years. I was like, he saw her there. Malcolm X's wife, when the house was burning, called for Malcolm, and it's like he was there. It's like this thing as a death doula. I see it far too often to believe that it doesn't happen. So that's one of the questions, like, who do you want it to be? So for me, I hope it's my grandmother comes back. And I've heard stories of people who say that their family, the whole family came back. Like, everyone who had gone before was just there waiting. I'm like, that would be a hell of a welcoming party, you know, it's like, oh, imagine. Like, I wouldn't be afraid to go at all. So I think it happens for us all.

[A]

How many deaths do you think you've witnessed?

[B]

Oh, my gosh, I'd say at least 30. I've assisted hundreds in some way, you know, held the space as they were dying. And this is Since I was 9, I've been doing this work. It wasn't work then. It was what families do for a family. I'm 43 now, and it's all these years being there for family members who've died. My first friend died at 13. Creating these things at school where we could talk about it and holding this space where we could talk about that at school. 13, creating grief circles on the playground. Then I worked in the hospice for a couple of years. And so it's been a lot. It's been a lot of deaths, and it's not such a heavy thing for me, you know, it's a purpose. And my whole thing is I don't want people to be alone in the end. And so being able to be there for them so they're not alone gives me joy, which is such a strange word, you know, when talking about death. But there's a joy there, even for them. It's like, I wasn't alone. I got to tell my story. I got to connect with the people that I love so much. Thank you for that.

[A]

Was there a really significant moment where you were like, this is the profession I'm going to choose. This is the path I'm going to take?

[B]

Yes. And it wasn't even about that. It was the moment someone mentioned the term death Doula for me, which was only 10 years ago, 2015, I was at my college homecoming with a friend who's a hospice nurse, and I told her about all the experiences that I've had, you know, at 9, at 13, at 12, helping a cousin die, helping my grandmother, my grandfather, many friends. And she says, oh, are you a death doula? And I thought, well, what the hell is a death doula, right? So I Google it, and everything on the list is what I'd been doing for decades. It was this wow moment. This is what you're supposed to do. I'd been a writer my whole life, and I always thought that I was supposed to write, but suddenly it became, oh, I'm good at writing. Being a death duel and helping people die is what I'm supposed to do. I have to lean into that. And instantly, it all made sense. And I just leaned. Went all the way in. And strangely, since hearing that, it was that wow moment. But then it came down and it was like. But nothing really changes. I still go in, and I'm still doing the work that I've been doing for the last however many years, and it's still a beautiful thing. And I still get to be there for people, just like I've been since I was 9 years old.

[A]

In your book, you talk about how your grandmother modeled this work before there was even a title for it. What did she teach you that still guides you today?

[B]

How to be a witness. There's so many people tell you, you know, everyone wants to be loved, which is true, but also people want to be witnessed, even if they can't be loved. It's like, I just want to be seen. And from a young age, I watched my grandmother, and she was my favorite person in the world. And so I was always with her. And so I was able to witness her doing the work. And for her, it was, you know, I have a friend who's sick. I'm going to go and see if they need anything. I'm going to go and see about them. I'm going to go make some potato salad and be there and listen to these stories. And I got to be there with her. And so I had a cousin who came home when I was 12. And this is at the height of the AIDS epidemic. This is 94. No one wanted to touch him. You know, it was that whole thing. Everyone was scared. But my grandmother was her nephew. She says, you come to my house. I'll take care of you. And it was just listening to her stories and saying, you existed. You were here. And we'll make sure that everyone knows that.

[A]

Yeah. Nobody wants to be forgotten.

[B]

No one wants to be forgotten. No one. We all have to tell those stories. We have to tell the stories. And so collecting those stories and listening to her and how she would play these stories back, you know, she held card games in her living room almost every night, and we'd sit at these tables, and she'd tell these stories about people from over the years. And I. I'm from Charlottesville, Virginia, and it was so fun walking around the town, because I remember her stories and, like, oh, this is the corner she was talking about, or this is the store. And she held onto that. And so I was, isn't it the.

[A]

Best, too, when you walk through a place like that, too, and everyone has stories about her?

[B]

Everyone. They still talk, and they still talk about. And they still talk about her. Right. And it's like, that's what I want, you know, I want that life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so that's how I just. Watching her. And she had never heard the term death dud in her life, but it was what her mother did for other people. You know, her mother's mother, they just took care of family and friends.

[A]

Wow. People, they often talk about regrets. Do you hear a lot of the same regrets?

[B]

Oh, all the time. One of my last clients, we didn't know it at the time, but he was less than a week away from dying. But we knew he had very limited time. And I asked him, is there anything you wish you'd done? You know? Cause I have to tell this story. And he wanted this story to be passed to his nephews who were younger so they didn't have the same mistake. And he says, you know, I live my life because my grandma, again, grandmother's amazing people. But he's like, I lived my life because my grandmother was my favorite person, wanting to get her the life that I feel like she deserved. But when she was dying and I told her that I was sorry I couldn't get that for her, she told me that she never wanted any of it. She just wanted me to be happy. He's like. And I never got to follow that happiness for myself. And he's like, and here I am dying, and I'll never have that. And so that's one of the biggest regrets people have, is that I wish I had lived my life for me. And we know we're gonna die, but there's something that tells us that maybe we won't, because if we did, wouldn't we be going after those Things, you know what I mean? And so. Or I try to tell people about these things so they can pivot and say, oh, I need to go after this. In my profession, I'm a children's writer. I write children's telev, and I try to put in a little bit of this work into that writing because I don't want kids to grow up to be the adults that I'm trying to help, you know?

[A]

Yeah. When they just have a week left.

[B]

When they have a week left and.

[A]

You start living for yourself.

[B]

When you have a week and, you know, it's like, what can I do in this week to help you find the smallest amount of joy if that's all we can have? And sometimes that's just bringing in the family or helping repair a relationship, which is another regret. I wish that relationship never got broken.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And sometimes it's, okay, well, let's write a letter to that person, and I'll sit there and I'll write it, and we'll make sure that person gets it. And maybe they can come or maybe they can just have a phone call. But you hear so many. It's so many. And if we could just die with fewer, it's. That's. You know, that's the goal.

[A]

You know, how do families know when it's time to let go? Instead of pushing more treatments, more tries, the person themselves, that's like, please, let's stop this.

[B]

Yeah, great question. Some families don't know. Some families will hold on until there's nothing left. There have been situations where the doctor says, listen, it's just the body at this point. You have to let go. And they still won't. In my witnessing, it's always the person who's dying who says, I'm ready to go. Please let me go. And hope the person that they've put in charge listens. You know, again, the importance of a healthcare proxy, because we want more time.

[A]

Selfishly.

[B]

Yeah. Always selfishly. We didn't get the parent we wanted. And so if we can get these last few days, maybe they'll turn into that before they die. My child didn't live up to the potential.

[A]

They are people who are disappointed by that.

[B]

Yeah. A lot of times it's that thing of there's so much I have inside that I need to get out. And if I can have a couple of more days and that light comes back into their eye, I can say it. I had a client recently, and it was so Sad. He was 21 years old. He's known. He was Going to die since April because his mom had the same condition. Tumors growing internally. When I got there, he was paralyzed. He was blind and deaf on one side. We communicated through a tablet I had, so he would blink. And I asked him, how do you want to die? We knew it was going to be in this hospital. We knew how it was going to go. And I asked, do you want to die? Are you ready to die? And he says, yes. He died maybe a month and a half after this. He was ready to go long before, but his family held on. And they hadn't been there throughout the entire process of his dying, but they held onto him because they weren't sure who was going to get his estate, which was literally two cell phones and a PlayStation that fit into a bedpan. And this was one of those moments where I couldn't be there because I fight, right? And it's like, I will. It pissed me off so much, but selfishly, like, who gets two cell phones? So we're gonna keep him alive for an extra two weeks, extra week and a half to find out who gets this. That does not matter. And he's ready to go. And thankfully, he had an amazing healthcare team. He had some amazing nurses on his team who kept him as comfortable as possible throughout the process. But especially for those last couple years.

[A]

The fighting of families when it comes to after money, I've seen it. That's actually like. With the few deaths that I've seen, that's what it always ends up being about, is just the will that.

[B]

Every time. Yeah, every time. And it's that thing. It's like, even if you plan, like I keep saying, you have to plan it, but I would say funerals and weddings. But funerals bring out the pettiness of folks. And so you will always have those problems. We've all seen those families fall apart at the death of someone. And it's like, if there's a chance that we can prevent that as much as possible, why aren't we doing it? Cause some people just. They die and they say, whatever you all want to do, I don't care. And it's like, no, no, no, no.

[A]

This breaks up and breaks down.

[B]

This is gonna break the entire family. I have cousins I haven't seen since my grandmother died. We don't hang out. You China.

[A]

I mean, plates this that, like, it gets very.

[B]

Cell phones. Two cell phones, two cell phones and a PlayStation. But it's like, no, I don't. Me, personally, people have died who have been extremely close to me. Just give me this one photo, I don't want to deal with whatever y' all are going to deal with. And so we have to be prepared on that side, too, to say, do we want to go through that with the family, or do we want to just remain the joyful person that we are and avoid that? Because families will fall apart.

[A]

How hard is it for you, seeing so much death? I had a friend recently who. Her husband was in a coma, and it was just so unreal to me how good and present and alive he looked. Despite it, got to the point, I'm sure you've seen this before, but, you know, he first went into the hospital for a few months, and it just went on many, many months, and eyes were closed. Then all of a sudden, one day, opened his eyes, and they were looking back and forth, and we went to go visit him, and he just looked so there and so present. And it was the doctors that had to tell us, like, I know it seems like it, but I promise you, he's not okay. And we're just like, really? There's no way, like, you're talking to him. You're whispering in his ear, giving him kisses on the cheeks. He's got color to his face, even. And it must be so hard to tell a family that, as believable as this looks, because at the same time, like, how do they really. I know they're doctors. They know they can measure brain activity and this, that, and they can see that there's no activity happening. But, yeah, part of me, like, I guess you kind of put yourself in their shoes, right? And you're like, but what if that's me? What if one day I'm like that? And then you're also overhearing people talk about your state and your being, and they're saying, like, she's not there. But I'm like, I'm fucking there. But like, that, to me, the back and forth on that is, like, so scary.

[B]

It's a scary thing. It's a very scary thing. And you want to hold on to hope as the family that's there, as the loved ones, as the friends. You want to hold on to that hope that they're going to be okay. And we want to listen to the doctors, but we've known miracles, and those miracles let us hold onto the hope until there is none. Until when do you know to let go that question? And on the death side, like, we have this thing called the death rally, right? So when you are dying and you are at the end, sometimes there's this Burst of energy. And so when you've been out of it for weeks, you have not been there. And then you have that day where the family's like, oh, I think he's going to be all right, you know? And my friend who I was there.

[A]

For, wait, I've heard about this. This happens often.

[B]

Happens often. His husband calls me and he says, no, he's walking around, we made breakfast, we're listening to music, and we're having a great day, I think. I don't know if the medicine's working or what. And I had to say, this is the moment right before the end, that last burst of energy, Everything's shooting off. You know, all. Everything's just shooting off. Everything's firing, firing off and saying, let's go. This last burst of energy, that adrenaline, that spirit, that energy that's just in there, and it's like, oh, no. I feel like myself. And I'm like, listen, use this time to ask all the questions.

[A]

Is it just the people that it's happening to or just those around them?

[B]

I've never seen it trick them. I've never seen it trick. Like, they know. People know when they're going to die. People know. I really believe that. And in the moment for my friend, his name was Omar, who was dying, he's giving all the information he possibly can, knowing that this is that moment. So he's like, listen, this is what I need my nephews to know. I need them to know that not to feed into the hype that I fed into, to live the lives that they want to live. And it's like he's just pouring it out. And the husband on the other side is holding on, and he's like, this is what I've missed for the past year. I need this moment to last forever. And it's like. But it won't. So what can you do right now to hold onto that? Just lay beside them and hold onto that. And that's the important part. It's like, what do you do with that hope, you know, it's like, yeah, let me use this moment.

[A]

Does the rally occur, you know, usually a couple days before death or a week or you never.

[B]

All the above. It could be a week, it could be the day of, it could be the last. Like, literally happen, and then that's it. All the above. It could happen. That rally can happen at any time. Yeah. How do you want to die?

[A]

In my sleep, hopefully. Okay. I definitely would like to be a part of nature again. Just back into the earth. I don't want to waste any space. My dad, I know, wants to be cremated. My mom, of course, wants to be cremated. But I'm fine being whole. Just want to go back into the earth.

[B]

Yeah. Right on. Is there a song you want to hear as your final song, as you're slipping away or what sound? I'll leave it open to what sounds.

[A]

Like a ton of music. I know it's kind of crazy. I don't think I need a song. I would love my kids, like, cute little voices and laughing and I definitely want a very funny funeral. The eulogies have to be so inappropriate. I want people, like, not knowing if they should laugh or not or. Yeah. It just has to be like, I.

[B]

Just listened to this woman on TikTok and she's like, you know, I just left this funeral. Not very remarkable. It was, you know, it was a funeral, whatever. She's like, until the end when we're getting up to leave for the cemetery. It was a young girl who died. And one of her friends stands up and says, before we go, I feel like I need to say that Jessica had the wettest pussy that I've ever known. And then another friend stands up and says, I concur. And it's like, the friend, she set this up because she knew she was gonna die. And it's like, yes, that's. We. That's.

[A]

That kind of break, too, is so needed.

[B]

And the whole church burst out into laughter. And it was so needed. And it was just like, oh, thank God.

[A]

Yes. I was thinking about my dad's funeral at this recent funeral I was at, and I was like, oh, my dad, you know, like, I love him to death, but it's not like, you know how some people, they're like, oh, she touched so many lives. She worked at a university. So many people knew and loved her. That's not the same with my family. I have very, like, small town families. They grew up in, like, North Dakota or small towns in Washington. And they didn't necessarily touch hundreds of lives on a daily basis. So the funerals are gonna be very small, very intimate. And I often think, like, my dad doesn't wanna be a bother to anybody. If I were to ask him today, like, what do you want your funeral to be like? He'd be like, I don't need one. Just cremate me. I don't. Like, he doesn't wanna. And I feel like I might be the same way, but I kind of do want to be a bother at that point.

[B]

No. And that's right, like I hear that so often. There's so many people. I just talked to someone yesterday who says, you know, my aunt died and there was no funeral. She didn't want a funeral. And that blows my mind still. Like, I work in death and that blows my mind. It's like, why I think we think we didn't affect anyone. We think no one was impacted by our actions. And sometimes that's true. Sometimes. Or those people are long gone. But I heard a story a couple days ago of someone whose grandfather died. And, you know, usually he was 80 something, 90 something by that time. All your friends are gone, your family's mostly the young folks, and so they don't really know you, he said. But thousands of people showed up and there were people saying, at the grocery store, he gave me a coat and I never forgot that. Or I needed a suit for an interview and he told me to follow him home. Now, though, living funerals, you gotta have a living funeral.

[A]

John and I talk about this. I know you're listening. I ask for this all the time.

[B]

You gotta do it. A living funeral is. I think that's the way to go. It's the whole, give them their flowers while they can still get, you know, it's that whole thing. And I think that's where we need to move toward. People need that explain for those of.

[A]

Us that don't know what a living funeral is.

[B]

Yeah, So a living funeral is when you get flowers from the people who love you most. Right. It's those. You're still alive. And these people are coming together to honor your life. They're coming together to say, this is how you impacted me. This is what you've done for me. It's all the things we say about people on Instagram and the Instagram comments section and the Facebook comment section on TikTok. When they die, it's like, oh, I remember seeing her at the store and all she did was smile at me. But that changed my day. Or his music did this for me. And it's like, I can have that now, you know? An example that we've seen in television was the sequel to Coming to America. When the king was dying. And everyone's there and they say all these good things right after they finish, he says, okay, I'll die now. And then he just dies. Hopefully it doesn't happen that way, but you get to have those things and get to know what you meant to people. And it's like, why are we waiting to die to get these things? Or to know what we meant to People, that's the big thing.

[A]

Have you been witness to somebody that really doesn't want to go, does not want to pass, does not want to die? And are there any words of comfort that you could give to people that are very fearful?

[B]

Yes. For witnessing people who weren't ready to go. There was a guy who had been told he was going to die within a few months, you know, went to the hospital seemingly fine. And I got called in, and I get there. And the two months between that and death weren't enough to prepare him for it. And he fought it till the end. He was not ready and was very vocal about it.

[A]

It was like unfinished business or was.

[B]

Like, I don't want to d. And it comes through in aggression. It comes through so many ways. It's like I. You know, the way he communicated with family. The family's like, he was an asshole. And it's like, rightfully so. Some people just don't want to go. You're young, you know, he's 40, and I don't want to go. At 40 years old, there are so many things. Married with kids, and it's like, there's a life I planned. I'm 43. I'm like, I'm not afraid of death whatsoever, but not ready to go. And so if I were to die now or was told that I have a week, I would complain until the end. And that's fair. You know, we hear so many stories of people say, oh, he took it with grace. He didn't complain, not once. I'm like, that's not me.

[A]

I know. And when people say, like, she fought so hard, I'm like, I didn't.

[B]

I did not. No, no, no. Not at all. I'm cussing everybody out daily, you know, and so it happens, and we have to tell those stories like so many people. He was lovely. I'd never heard him say a bad thing. Well, that's not. No, we have. That's not true. You are lying. He was in pain for weeks.

[A]

Never had a nasty word to say about anybody.

[B]

Tell the truth about me, right? And it's like, no. So, yes. I've seen people who fight it till the end and don't want to go. And it's not easy finding words.

[A]

What's a good way for a parent to talk about death with a child?

[B]

Yeah. We know our children, and we know what they can handle. So it starts with that and knowing how they take in information. The bigger part of it is telling the truth and being honest and open and very transparent. And ready to answer any questions they have. That's the general answer. And a lot of times we want to talk to them and we want to soften the language. We want to say, oh, you know, grandma passed, Grandpa passed. And it's like, well, passed what? You know, what does that mean? It's saying, grandma died. And here's what dying means. They're not coming back. You know, there's a story of saying, people say, you know, grandma went to sleep and she's not waking up. And then, you know, kids are scared to sleep now because it's like, well, what happened to grandma? And so it's telling the truth and being very direct and also asking questions like, do you want to go to the funeral? You know, a lot of times I have so many friends who grew up saying, I didn't go to a funeral until I was in my 20s, but I had a lot of people. And it's like, that's important for closure for kids, too. We always think kids can't handle things, but they handle things better than us because they haven't been exposed to the lives we've been exposed to.

[A]

Say you got a phone call, a horrific phone call that somebody close to you has passed. They're gone. You're not going to go visit them at the hospital. What is step number one?

[B]

Yes, step number one depends on the person. I've been there for someone who got a very similar call from a friend who just died in a motorcycle accident. They were Muslim. And she says, oh, I have to go to a funeral. When's the funeral? She's like, in three hours. It's immediate. Yeah, it's immediate. And so sometimes that's the case where there is no time to think about anything else but what I'm doing for the next few hours to get there to support everyone else. That's gonna be. When that's not the case, when it's someone died suddenly, what do we do? All that instantly goes into action. Okay, I'm sorry that that's what happened to you. It's like, who do we even call? You know, you're young. You've never dealt with the funeral as an adult. I don't know the first person to call, Is it the police? Is it the family? It's just a panic. And so the best thing to do is figure out who your community is. There's so much work figuring out who's in our community emotionally, practically, professionally. And the practical matters, that's the paperwork. Like, if it happened now, you'd have a Completely different strategy. I did a workshop this past weekend, and we had to make a list of who those people are in our lives. And I think I got three. And I have countless friends, but it was like, I can't trust all those people. I can only trust three people with the practical part of my life. But it's finding out who those people are, because, honestly, those calls can come anytime. I had a friend who died in college. The way it happened. He died at a party, alcohol poisoning. At 3 o' clock in the morning on a Sunday morning. Going into Sunday, his mom finds out on Facebook that her son died because there were a lot of rips on his page. So it's like, that's the call. So instantly you're like, well, who do I call first? These people doing rip? The police. Where's the body? And it's like, you don't know. But it's having that community of people who can say, breathe, take a second. Death is not an emergency because it's happened. It's happened. We don't have to figure it out right now.

[A]

Do you think funeral homes prey on the urgency of it? How frantic the energy is happening? Everyone's like, 100%.

[B]

That's how they can raise those prices, you know? Like, I hate to call funeral homes out, but why am I paying $15,000? You're making $12,000 profit.

[A]

It is interesting, right, when something so personal becomes a business.

[B]

Oh, it's a machine. And they've been in the death space, so it's not all of them. I know some incredible funeral homes. Incredible funeral homes that I work with, and they are not about that. I was talking to someone the other day where a funeral home charges for cremation. They charge $25,000 for cremation. I know another funeral home that's like, it costs not even close to that. We charge 2,500 and covers everything. I have a friend who runs three funeral homes in the state. And I asked him one day, I said, you know, what's the cheapest funeral someone can get? He's like, 10,000. What's your profit? 8. And I'm like, what? And so, yes, because you come in there, you're panicked, you don't know what to do. You've never planned a funeral before. You've known people to have funerals. You know, they raised 15,000 on GoFundMe or whatever. So funerals must cost that much. Okay, fine. If I did the research, I know that I can do a natural burial somewhere and put you directly in the ground with the shroud for. Not even close to that.

[A]

Is that acceptable in, like, a. Does it have to be a certain type of cemetery?

[B]

Yeah, there are natural burial grounds all.

[A]

Around the US but they're usually not the same as the ones that are using caskets.

[B]

Yeah, usually not the same. Like, you will know, like, these are people who. 1 want to return to what we used to do, because cemeteries, you know, they. They create the box, and then they put you in the box, and there's so much metal on the ground, and it's just not good for the earth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Natural burial grounds are like, we bury you with no metal, no nothing. It's just all natural. We bury you at a level where your body is still able to supply the earth with nutrients, flowers, and you can break down and return to what you once came from. And it's such a beautiful thing. I actually never heard.

[A]

As interested in this topic as I am, I've never heard of a natural burial ground.

[B]

Oh, yeah, it's amazing. I'm from Virginia, and so I just spoke at a conference a couple weeks ago, and it was the first time I'd seen one. And they bought 20 acres of land, which I think, over time, they'll be able to bury 6,000 people.

[A]

After planting flowers and trees.

[B]

You can plant flowers over top of your grave. Not trees, really. You can plant trees off to the side just because of the roots. But it's basically, you're lowered into the ground at about 4, 3 or 4ft with the shroud, some plants over top of you. Your family can come visit. There's a rock with your name engraved, and you can come out there and tour the land and pick your place. I want to be by that tree, and it's so beautiful. And you're giving back, and it's like, yes, that. But again, death is not an emergency. And so when you get that call and they say, darnell's dead, okay, you need those people. I've seen yourself as an example.

[A]

That makes me so sad.

[B]

I won't die in this house, I promise. But, you know, it's like, okay, you need those people to say, breathe. Calm down. Breathe, community. We're all gonna take care of this. We're all gonna be all right. And that's the hard part. Like, there are people. Why didn't you call me? You know, I would have helped you. And it's like, we don't know what we want when people die. That's the thing. It's like, so as friends, you have to be able to ask the right questions long before people get to that place. So, like, I ask people like, okay, if someone very close to you died, how do you want me to respond? And how do you want me to help you? And you can answer that question before that happens. You can answer that now. It's like, oh, well, feed me and give me a ride to this place. Or have a list of this if I need it. I won't be able to even function if my spouse died. You lead the way. And it's like, oh, okay. So I know that if I got a call and you said, so and so died, I am on the way. I'm coming with food. The closest person to me, his girlfriend died. I was supposed to pick them up from the airport that morning for our college homecoming.

[A]

How did she.

[B]

And he calls me and he says. I'm like, what? You missed the flight? He's like, no, she's dead. And I'm like, what do you mean she's dead? And he's like, she died. They just found her. She had a blood clot, birth control, and she died in the shower. And he's been trying to get in touch with her. The night before, the police couldn't go in because they needed permission. They come over the next morning. They're like, well, you sit in our car. We'll go in and look, because they can finally go in. And they go in, and he's sitting in the backseat, and he hears on the radio, black female, 20, died. You know? And it's like, okay. And he calls me, and I say, okay, I'll call you right back. And I knew that there was no possible way that he could make the phone calls that needed to be made to her sorority sisters. And so I say, okay, I'll call them. So I called them and forgot to call him back. I knock on his door. I'm in Florida. He's in St. Louis at the time, And I just knock on his door in St. Louis, and he's like, what are you doing here? I was like, actually, I. I don't know, but I got a bottle of liquor and I'm here for a week. So whatever we gotta do, this is what we're gonna do. And so you need those people, you know, that can do that, that know you that well, that can do that for you.

[A]

That'll hold it together.

[B]

That'll hold it together. Or. Or fall apart.

[A]

Yeah, fall apart.

[B]

Or fall apart with you. Cause it was just like, well, we'll just sit here and cry until. And then her Parents came in. We go, all of us go. Her parents and her sister, and we go and we clean out her apartment. And again, it's all of us. Her dad's like, I need to take a moment.

[A]

There's so many levels to everything. Not only have they just passed, you need to do. You need to do the funeral home thing. You gotta plan the funeral, plan the burial, but then also the aftermath of it. The going through the home.

[B]

Going through the home and cleaning that thing out. But you shouldn't have to do any of that alone. And so it's finding the people who will be there for you if that call ever came.

[A]

Oh, I would hate all of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't hate it.

[B]

I think she was 27, maybe. No, she was 25. She was 25 at the time.

[A]

Do you normalize preparing for death? Are there things that we should know, no matter our age or health status, like, should I know what funeral home? Like, does it come. Like, I know what I want to do with money and things, but when it comes to, like, the basics of where who is going to give? Talk about, like, should I know those things now?

[B]

Oh, absolutely.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I think the funeral home.

[B]

Everything, everything. I think everything that feels important to you, it doesn't have to be. Whatever feels important to you with your death, you should know.

[A]

Sorry, what was it called? The natural burial ground.

[B]

Natural burial ground.

[A]

Now, I'm definitely.

[B]

I want to do that. Like, I know that's what I want to do. I know if it's not a natural burial ground, if it's not me turned into mulch, I know that I want to just be thrown into the ocean, if that's possible, whatever that is. But everything that's important to you, you should know. Like, I keep a list what kind of funeral I want, where I wanted to be. I wanted to be at a bar. I told my mom, if I die before my mom, she gets two gospel songs. I'm not in the church, you know, but she gets two because she needs the two. I know who I want to give my eulogy. I update my obituary as often as possible. And, you know, like, LA Times, they have obituaries long in advance, which I think is a great idea. It's like, oh, okay, we'll just update this. So, you know, you see, when the person dies, it's like, how did they get that so quick? They've had that so since 2009, whatever that is. But I think you should create a list of everything that's important to you and update it Every year or whenever it changes.

[A]

Yeah. There are things that I think about. Like, if I am cremated, I would be sad if someone dumped all of my ashes in the ocean. I would like my kids to, like, have a little bit of ash, like, in a necklace or something, each one of them. And I think about that all the time. Like, when I'm, like, going through my jewelry in the morning or, like. But, like, I haven't ever said it to anybody. Not that you can be bummed when you're dead, but I would be bummed if there was no little bit of physical me left with my babies.

[B]

No, absolutely. That's a very real thing.

[A]

That's weird, though, to think about. It's so small.

[B]

Is it? You know what I mean? Like, it's like, this is the one thing that we know we're gonna have. Right? We know we're gonna die. So it's like, let's plan that down to as much as we plan a birthday party, as much as we plan a house, whatever that is, Plan it all the way down and tell somebody about that. Like, I tell my mom, what's the.

[A]

Biggest mistake people make after somebody's passed? Not knowing this information or this. That. But, like, is there a choice that people make that might be the incorrect choice or.

[B]

Yeah. I think the mistake people make when someone passes is not relying on the people who said will be there for them. A lot of times we retreat, go into ourselves, and feel that we have to do it alone. There's someone that most of us can call on, and it's hard to do. It's hard to do. It's hard to ask for help, you know, for whatever reason. So many reasons. So it's hard to ask for help, but we don't do it. And we think that doing it alone means something, and it. It.

[A]

You love them the most.

[B]

Or, like, and it's like, no, Go get that help.

[A]

And now for the toolkit. Each episode, our guests distill their expertise into practical and actionable insights. Today, Darnell shares his advice for dying with few regrets.

[B]

Okay, Chrissy, so I found a way to help people die in eight steps with fewer regrets. I always tell people the first step is getting brutally honest with yourself. What are you pretending not to know? What are you avoiding? Because it's uncomfortable. Most of us walk around with the stories about who we are, what we can or can't do, what we deserve. But those stories have expiration dates, and when you're dying, they show up again like, hey, remember me? The thing you never dealt with. I've seen people try to make peace at the very end with what they could have faced earlier. So I ask folks to start now. If you knew you had six months, a year, a week, a day to live, what would suddenly matter? And what would stop mattering at all? Step two Embracing your mortality. Here's where everyone usually takes a deep breath because we're talking about their own death. But I don't see death as scary. I see it as clarifying. And once you really understand that time is limited, it changes how you move. You stop wasting days on things that drain you. You start asking, what am I doing with the time I have left? Because the biggest lie life tells us is that we have more time. And we keep saying, I'll do it later. But later is just a placeholder for fear. So what if instead of running from death, we used it as a reminder to live differently? Step three is finding your truth. So much of dying without regret is living in alignment with what's real for you, not what someone else wants from you. I see so many people at the end of their lives realizing that they never really lived their life. They lived the life others wanted for them. And your truth doesn't have to be grand. It just has to be yours. When you stop performing, you start living. Step four is telling your story. When I'm sitting with someone who's dying, they almost always start telling stories. And you realize this. You've heard the stories from your dad and from others. And not big movie moment stories. I'm talking about the small, ordinary ones. The night they danced in the kitchen, the time they forgave someone who didn't deserve it, or the weird adventure they said yes to. Those are the stories that live on. And I remind people, your life is a story. You're writing it every day. So if someone published your story today, would you be proud of it? Or would you want to turn the page and start rewriting? You can still change the plot while you're alive. Step 5 Letting go of perfection. You don't need to be perfect. You just need to be alive. Perfection robs us of presence. So go ahead and mess it up a little bit. Take the trip before you can afford the fancy version. Save the thing before it becomes perfectly polished. Just be alive. Step six is connecting with others. When people are dying, they don't talk about jobs. They talk about love. They talk about the people who shape them, who showed up, who they wish they had said, I'm sorry or I love you too, just one more time and that's all it comes down to, really, just the connection. If you want to die with fewer regrets, love harder, forgive quicker. Let people know what they mean to you now. Don't make them wait until the eulogy to hear it again. The living funeral is so important. Step seven is define your own success. Success is such a trap, right? We spend so much time chasing someone else's version. Money, titles, followers, that we forget to ask, do I even want this? At the end, no one says, I wish I had another promotion. They say, I wish I had more mornings with my kids. Or I wish I'd created something that mattered to me. So I always tell people to find success for yourself now, because otherwise you might climb the whole mountain just to realize you were on the wrong one. Step eight, the final one. Reflecting, adjusting, and living with intention. So this is ongoing work, right? Check in with yourself. You're going to grow. You're supposed to. What mattered at 25 might not matter at 45. And that's not failure. That's evolution. The key is to keep asking, am I living in alignment with who I am today? Am I still moving toward what feels real for me? You can adjust this anytime. You can always come back home to yourself. Dying with fewer regrets isn't about doing everything. It's about doing what matters. And the good news is, you're not dead yet. You still get to rewrite the story.

[A]

Darnell Walker, I hope you never die, but I know you will.

[B]

Oh, it's fine. It's happening. It's gonna happen. I just hope I stay long enough to hear this come out. But it's gonna happen. It's fine.

[A]

Thank you for. This was like. It's so interesting because death is such a scary topic, but this was so enlightening and fun and heartwarming and all the things. So thank you so much for being here.

[B]

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. And I. I hope you continue telling your story. I think that's the way we all stay alive, right?

[A]

Till the day I die, baby.

[B]

Till the day you d.

[A]

Darnell, thank you for joining me today on Self Conscious. Darnell Lamont Walker's Never can say Goodbye. The Life of a Death Doula and the Art to a Peaceful End is available on Audible. Until then, tune in, turn on, and feel better. This is Chrissy Teigen, and you've been listening to Self Conscious, an Audible original podcast. This has been an Audible original produced by Audible Q Code and Huntley Productions, hosted by Chrissy Teigen, written and executive produced by Jimmy Jelinek Executive producers for Q Code Shen Yun Hu and Alexa Gabrielle Ramirez Executive producer for Huntley Productions Chrissy Teigen Executive producers for Audible Andy Beckerman and Stacy Creamer Recorded and engineered by Ben Milchev Filmed by Bridger Clement Production coordinator Brian Coulter Edited, mixed and mastered by Ben Milchev Head of creative development at Audible Kate Navin Chief Content Officer Rachel Gyazza Copyright 2024 by Audible Originals, LLC. Sound Recording Copyright 2025 by Audible Original.