Holly Whitaker - 30 Days to Living Sober

Summary

Holly Whitaker - 30 Days to Living Sober

In this compelling episode of Self-Conscious with Chrissy Teigen, host Chrissy Teigen engages in an intimate and raw conversation with Holly Whitaker, a renowned advocate for sobriety and author of Quit Like a Woman. Released on May 15, 2025, this episode delves deep into the complexities of maintaining sobriety, the pervasive influence of shame, and the practical tools available for those navigating their relationship with alcohol.

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1. Chrissy’s Personal Sobriety Journey

Chrissy Teigen opens the conversation by sharing her personal journey toward sobriety. “Four years ago, I decided to stop drinking. It wasn't just about the hangovers or the embarrassing moments. It was about wanting to be more present, more control of my life, and more connected to the things that truly matter” (00:03). Inspired by Holly Whitaker's Quit Like a Woman, Chrissy discusses how the book reshaped her understanding of alcohol and addiction, particularly highlighting the societal pressures women face regarding drinking.

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2. The Challenge of Maintaining Sobriety

The dialogue shifts as Chrissy recounts her initial success in maintaining sobriety, celebrating milestones like one month, six months, and a year without alcohol. However, she candidly admits her relapse: “There was no big dramatic moment. It hasn't really been an issue in the way that it was before, but I know deep down it still feels wrong” (01:30). This admission sets the stage for a deeper exploration of the emotional and psychological struggles involved in sustaining sobriety.

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3. Navigating Shame and Self-Compassion

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the role of shame in addiction and recovery. Holly Whitaker elaborates, “Shame is just the difference between the ideas that we have of ourselves and who we're supposed to be and what we actually are” (05:33). Both hosts discuss how shame can often be a more daunting obstacle than the alcohol itself, leading to self-criticism and a relentless pursuit of perfection.

Chrissy echoes this sentiment, reflecting on her fear of disappointing others: “It's my big, shameful secret” (12:43). Holly reinforces the destructive nature of self-imposed shame, emphasizing the importance of self-compassion in overcoming these internal barriers.

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4. Redefining Relationships with Alcohol

The conversation shifts to Holly Whitaker’s Audible Original series, 30 Days to a New Relationship with Alcohol. This program emphasizes understanding and reshaping the unconscious patterns that drive alcohol consumption. Holly explains, “This series isn't about counting drinks or advocating for total abstinence, but rather about diving deep into the unconscious patterns that keep us stuck in behaviors we might want to change” (01:45).

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5. Practical Tools for Managing Cravings

Holly introduces a practical breathing exercise known as the Citali Breath, designed to manage cravings and ground the nervous system. She guides listeners through the technique, highlighting its effectiveness in triggering the parasympathetic nervous system to promote calmness: “It's a yummy breath... It kicks off my parasympathetic nervous system” (29:33). Chrissy shares her positive experience with the exercise, noting its ability to reduce anxiety and provide a moment of clarity.

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6. Embracing Imperfection and Letting Go

A poignant moment occurs when Holly discusses the inevitability of disappointing others and oneself. She states, “We are just so mean to ourselves. What you just told me is really mean. It's just we're so fucking mean to ourselves” (22:14). This acknowledgment underscores the need to accept imperfection and the fluid nature of personal growth. Holly encourages embracing vulnerability and understanding that disappointing others does not equate to personal failure.

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7. The Power of Daily Affirmations

The episode delves into the significance of daily affirmations in fostering a healthier relationship with alcohol. Holly explains how each day of the 30-day journey is anchored with specific affirmations designed to build upon one another: “Each of the affirmations are built in order to kind of day over day, give the listener a chance to... practice the affirmations, and also be changed by them” (17:56). These affirmations aim to guide listeners through a transformative process, promoting self-awareness and intentional change.

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8. Cultivating Gratitude Amidst Struggles

Chrissy and Holly explore the concept of practicing gratitude, even for the challenging aspects of life. Holly references Melody Beatty’s approach, which involves acknowledging both positive and negative experiences: “You're using it as a way to bring in the stuff you really don't want to be facing” (27:38). This balanced practice of gratitude helps individuals process their emotions and find meaning in their struggles.

Chrissy shares her own growth, expressing how her experiences have deepened her empathy and reshaped her outlook: “My life has changed dramatically. The levels of empathy I have for people... are so vastly different” (28:38).

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9. Conclusion and Final Insights

As the episode concludes, Chrissy expresses gratitude for Holly’s insights and support: “Holly Whitaker, I want to thank you so much for being here and joining me on Self Conscious” (33:33). Holly reiterates the importance of engaging with the process and using available tools to navigate personal challenges with alcohol.

The episode wraps up with a reminder of Holly Whitaker’s 30 Days to a New Relationship with Alcohol available on Audible, offering listeners a structured path toward understanding and transforming their relationship with alcohol.

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Key Takeaways

• Shame as a Barrier: Shame can be a more significant obstacle than the addiction itself, necessitating self-compassion and acceptance.

• Practical Tools: Techniques like the Citali Breath and daily affirmations can provide practical support in managing cravings and fostering positive change.

• Embracing Imperfection: Accepting that disappointment is a natural part of life helps alleviate the pressure of perfectionism.

• Balanced Gratitude: Practicing gratitude for both positive and challenging experiences aids in emotional processing and personal growth.

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Notable Quotes

• Chrissy Teigen on Sobriety: “Four years ago, I decided to stop drinking. It wasn't just about the hangovers or the embarrassing moments. It was about wanting to be more present, more control of my life, and more connected to the things that truly matter” (00:03).

• Holly Whitaker on Shame: “Shame is just the difference between the ideas that we have of ourselves and who we're supposed to be and what we actually are” (05:33).

• Chrissy on Disappointment: “It's my big, shameful secret” (12:43).

• Holly Whitaker on Affirmations: “Each of the affirmations are built in order to kind of day over day, give the listener a chance to... practice the affirmations, and also be changed by them” (17:56).

• Chrissy on Gratitude: “My life has changed dramatically. The levels of empathy I have for people... are so vastly different” (28:38).

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Conclusion

This episode of Self-Conscious with Chrissy Teigen offers a profound exploration of sobriety, shame, and self-compassion through the lens of Holly Whitaker’s expertise. By intertwining personal narratives with practical advice, Chrissy and Holly provide listeners with both inspiration and actionable tools to navigate their own journeys toward a healthier relationship with alcohol.

Transcript

[Chrissy Teigen]

You're listening to Self Conscious with Chrissy Teigen, an Audible original podcast. Join me as we explore the cutting edge of health, wellness, and personal growth with the world's leading experts and thinkers. From inspiring stories to actionable insights, our conversations aim to help you lead a healthier, happier, and more productive life. Four years ago, I decided to stop drinking. It wasn't just about the hangovers or the embarrassing moments. It was about wanting to be more present, more control of my life, and more connected to the things that truly matter. I realized that drinking wasn't serving me anymore. It was holding me back. The book that really inspired me to take this step was Quit Like a Woman by Holly Whitaker. The powerful memoir and recovery manifesto challenged the way that we think about alcohol and addiction, especially for women. Through her raw and honest storytelling, Holly shed light on the deeply ingrained cultural norms that glorify drinking and often leave us trapped in destructive patterns. For two years, I didn't have a drop. I remember how proud I was when I hit a month, six months, and eventually a year. But then I started drinking again. There was no big dramatic moment. It hasn't really been an issue in the way that it was before, but I know deep down it still feels wrong. And if I were to listen to my inner voice, I would stop again. And that's where it all gets very complicated. But it's also the perfect segue to talk about Holly's audible original 30 days to a New Relationship with Alcohol, which actually seems like it was created just for me in this very specific moment. This series isn't about counting drinks or advocating for total abstinence, but rather about diving deep into the unconscious patterns that keep us stuck in behaviors we might want to change. Over the course of 30 days, Holly guides listeners through daily meditations and actionable tips designed to help them reassess and reshape their relationship with alcohol, meeting them wherever they are on their journey. It's a continuation of her mission to empower individuals with the tools they need to live more authentic and fulfilling lives. Holly Whitaker welcomed the self conscious I loved the initial journey of being sober. Yeah, and it felt very big and it felt almost like exciting and fun.

[Holly Whitaker]

Totally.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I made the choice. I just remember looking at my therapist one day and being like, I have such a wonderful, blessed life and it kills me that I can't have an aperol spritz or something if we're in Italy and you know, John drinks and he's very mindful with it though, and it doesn't at all do to him, what it does to me. But I was like, we get to do all these amazing things, like, why can't I have a drink? So we talked about it for months, and, like, I had this plan that I was going to have my drink and I was going to talk about it after. This is after over a year of being sober. I was sober for a year, and then I got pregnant. So sober. And then we talked about it, and I was telling him my plan to go back to it and how I would do it really carefully and mindfully and.

[Holly Whitaker]

Was he scared?

[Chrissy Teigen]

No. He was more happy that I was honest about it because, like, I really don't like disappointing people. I was scared to even tell you, and I haven't even told the world yet. I haven't, like, jumped on Instagram or anything. And I do feel like I should because I shared that journey of. That.

[Holly Whitaker]

This is such a great. Yeah.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And it sucks to, like, not be able to. Well, I guess I can, but I have a really hard time disappointing people.

[Holly Whitaker]

And you're going to disappoint people. Are you. You haven't even said. But what are you saying? Like, can you say what you're saying?

[Chrissy Teigen]

Well, I mean, I'm drinking again. Even in those therapy sessions, I couldn't look at my therapist during it. Like, I put a blanket fully over my head. And I said it in the way that I had similarly said to him years ago, I did drugs. I can't look someone in the eye and say. Even now, I can't look you in the eye and say that I did it or that I went back to it. That's like, a childhood thing. Like, it's just really hard to disappoint people.

[Holly Whitaker]

Right? Like, to make people feel ashamed of you.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yes. Yes. Like, I always wanted to be really perfect growing up to everybody, and it's still so.

[Holly Whitaker]

It feels really shameful when you say so shameful. Oh, Holly. After I went out on Instagram and I told everybody for. That I wasn't drinking, and now I'm drinking again. And now you're in this podcast in my home.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

This other book that. You're right. And.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

And I'm drinking again. I bet you felt like about that, right?

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

Okay.

[Chrissy Teigen]

But knowing that I can. And. And still knowing that, like, I'm not having fun with it. But let's.

[Holly Whitaker]

But, like, that's. But let's stick with this part. Right? So I think, like, it's so beautiful. It's like, thank you for saying it. And, like, saying it, you. You don't seem like you're just doing. You're doing something you did. You're just talking about something that you did, which actually, it really isn't tied to good or bad. Like, you know that, right? People that are sober aren't better than people that aren't sober. People that don't drink aren't better than people that drink. The sober version of you isn't better than the version of you that's drinking right now or the version that was, like, drinking before. First thing I want to acknowledge is thank you for using this to, like, this discussion. And, like, using your own. Your own natural course of like, which, by the way, reflects everyone else's natural course. You know, that, like, it's just not even unique at all. It's like an experience that a lot of people secretly have because they're so proud. This. You had this version of you that felt respectable, more respectable, maybe, or, like, maybe more together. And now you're not that. And maybe you helped people get. Like, there's all sorts of stuff that are tied into it. So I fully understand it, and I want it. Like, the first thing I want to say is, like, great. You're doing what, you know, 95% of people that have a complicated relationship with alcohol do.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And it is so hard to come out about that second part, right?

[Holly Whitaker]

Like, the second part, not the first part.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah. It was so exciting and so cool to me, and now I'm like, well, I messed up. Like, in my mind, I messed up. I went back and, like, what am I gonna say again? Like, it's not even exciting to get sober again. And, like, one of the things that really launched me was the excitement of it.

[Holly Whitaker]

Totally.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And I'm gonna make this big change. And now there's no, like, big, exciting change. It's like, oh, I'll try it again.

[Holly Whitaker]

So I think there's a couple of things here. And the shame piece is really a big piece of this, Right. Because it's tied into so much else. And I have been researching shame recently, and I love this concept. It's the difference between. Shame is just the difference between the ideas that we have of ourselves and who we're supposed to be and what we actually are. Right. And so it's this, like, falling short of who we think we're supposed to be. And so there's this idea that you have that you're supposed to be, what, like, fiction and just never drink. You made this one decision that was on the heels of a very different relationship with alcohol and a Very different version of you. And, like, having come out, you know, I know a little bit of your story from Instagram. I don't know a ton. But I do know that you'd just been through something horrible and that this was, like, this was a real thing that you experienced in a real, true healing. And no one ever said, now you've signed your name in blood here, and you can never change your mind, and. And that you'll be failing this commitment you made, what, five years ago, when you inevitably evolve and become a different person with, like, a different set of coping mechanisms. There's so much different in your life than there was the first time you quit. And so you are expecting this, like, pop of I need to catch that long wind to come back to it. I think that a lot of times we look at that, and we did. Especially if we're people that are pleasers and, like, we're people that love to do really good, and we hate messing up. We can look to and we can be like, that was the perfect event, right? And I need to go back to that to recreate it. And actually, that was a totally different version of you. You're at a different place now. You're a different person now, and you have to meet this. You can't try and meet it with a plan from five years ago. Right? It can't be enough that you just hate alcohol. It can't be enough that you just don't like it, right? Because if it was enough, then you wouldn't be asking the questions that you're asking or having the feelings that you're feeling. So, I mean, like, so what do you. What do you want to do? Like, do you know?

[Chrissy Teigen]

I still don't know. I'm in this. Like, I don't even know if I'm ready to quit again or if I. All I know for sure is it makes me feel like shit, okay? And I hate the taste of it. It ruins my meals. The shame of, like, you know, the next day, like, what did I say? What did I do? That used to be enough? Because I was. Like. When I got rid of that feeling, it actually took me, like, even after I got sober, it took me, like, three months to even realize that. That. Oh, no, I wasn't drunk last night. Like, I kept, like, every time I. And it was also really interesting that I still, like, was myself. Like, when I was sober. Like, I still made faux pas with big celebrities or something, and I'd be so embarrassed about or. But those obviously were, like, so much less Frequently. And it was weird to even come to terms with that feeling that, like, oh, no, I wasn't drinking last night. I'm okay. I didn't do anything dumb. That took me a long time to realize, but, yeah, just not having that feeling after waking up of shame. It's really.

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah, I know. It's really.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Shame is the big word.

[Holly Whitaker]

Shame is the big word. Yeah, for sure.

[Chrissy Teigen]

So I.

[Holly Whitaker]

So do you. I guess, here's the question. Is shame the bigger problem than the drinking right now?

[Chrissy Teigen]

Probably, yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

Sounds like it.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

Okay.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Alcohol sucks, man.

[Holly Whitaker]

It really does. And also, it's everywhere.

[Chrissy Teigen]

It's so everywhere. And it's so tied to what we.

[Holly Whitaker]

The best ideas of our lives, right? Like the best moments, like, I just.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Have, you know, like, pretty crippling anxiety. And so when we were going out to big events and stuff and seeing all these cute moments that people think are so funny, all these memes of me passed out at the Oscars, alcohol making my cry face, when John won a Golden Globe. Drunk, wasted. And I drank a lot for those events. I realized, like, it was because it.

[Holly Whitaker]

Was in a room where I was nervous. So this gets me to where I want to go to. So I think, like, so there's two things with this, right? I think the first is, like, it feels like right now your bigger issue is dealing with the shame, right? And the shame probably makes you want to drink or it makes it harder to navigate the clear, direct relationship with it, right? And so I think, like, you can give yourself a little pass here and be like, I don't have to solve alcohol today, right? But maybe I'm gonna look over here at how shame is showing up and, I don't know, question that and work with that. I think that's a really big piece, and I think that that's a really big growth up. We're not trying to be perfect. You're not trying to achieve sainthood. But a lot of it gets conflated with that, right? Right now you're in this, like, classic bind of you did something that was really important for your health and your well being and a lot of other people's health and well being. My friend Greta always says that I enacted a mass healing. You enacted a mass healing by sharing my work and sharing your story. You really did. You changed a lot of people's lives by that. And I know because I get a lot of letters and people still come up to me and say, I found your book because of Chrissy T. Again. You know, half a million copies have Been sold. And you've saved a lot of lives. Right. And so I think there's this really big, beautiful thing that you did. Right. And you also made these really honest and raw choices and were very vulnerable with the public, and that's just such a beautiful thing. You were very generous with your story. Right. And you don't owe anything to that.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I do feel like I do owe it to people, too.

[Holly Whitaker]

What do you think you owe them?

[Chrissy Teigen]

I will have a glass of wine in a restaurant. I'll look around. I'll see people in my mind, they're like, oh, she's drinking again.

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah, they probably. For sure.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah. Take my team out to dinner or something. They'll be like, oh, miss, we have, like, a mocktail list for you. And I look at them.

[Holly Whitaker]

Oh, my God.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And when I look at them, because they've heard, and I look at them and I say, oh, no, I'm drinking again. It's like a gut punch.

[Holly Whitaker]

You have to fucking disappoint the, like, people that are at the restaurants.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah, that's so much for sure. But I think it will help for this to come out and for me to admit to this, because right now, it's just all on me, and it just feels like this big burden on me and this big secret. Nothing has ever gone right in my life. If I weren't fully transparent with people about something, I know that people are gonna be really kind about it, and they will extend to me a lot of grace. Because this is how it works, right? There's, like, ebbs and flows and. And, yeah, it's my big, shameful secret.

[Holly Whitaker]

It is your big, shameful secret. But I also want to draw this back to, this is about you.

[Chrissy Teigen]

But I was able to quit when it wasn't about me. That's the problem.

[Holly Whitaker]

But it has to be eventually about you.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I know. It's almost like I have to psych myself into thinking that it's for something else again.

[Holly Whitaker]

Or it's for them.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah. Yeah. I'd rather do it for them than me. Which is a whole nother therapy session.

[Holly Whitaker]

Totally.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I mean, I have a. I have, like, a sobriety app that's still is.

[Holly Whitaker]

Taunting you with the days.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yes. That don't exist.

[Holly Whitaker]

Who gives shit, right?

[Chrissy Teigen]

But, like, four years. Congratulations. It launches confetti.

[Holly Whitaker]

Your heart is just broken because you're not measuring up to it.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And I let it keep going. I haven't deleted it. And I'm like, why don't I delete it? I think, like, I'm punishing myself. And I think that it, when I look at it, I'm like, hopefully, like, I'll get mad enough to stop again. Maybe it'll, it'll congratulate me and, and it'll say, like, how did you do today? And you're supposed to check in with it. And I just swipe up and, and, and let it say this stuff to me. And it's so frustrating and I can't believe I even let it do this to me all the time. But I'm hoping that deep down that it'll, it'll just finally get to me and I'll break and I'll be like, I'm doing, I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna go sober again. But then I don't, I, I, I, I also know that, like, if I get sober again, it's probably not going to be my last drink. I can see that. I'll go sober again. Yeah, maybe for a year. I guess I haven't really come to terms with, am I ready to have the last drink of my life?

[Holly Whitaker]

And you might not ever. And I guess my question to you is, can you tell me what is wrong with what your approach is right now?

[Chrissy Teigen]

I just know that I hate alcohol.

[Holly Whitaker]

Okay, great.

[Chrissy Teigen]

It makes me feel like shit.

[Holly Whitaker]

Okay, great.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I hate the taste of it.

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah. There's all sorts of crap about alcohol. It's terrible. Yeah, I hate it, too.

[Chrissy Teigen]

On, like, the simple level, I'm like, that should be enough.

[Holly Whitaker]

You're saying it should be enough, but the reality of the situation is, right, it's not enough. Otherwise you wouldn't be, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Right?

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah, I know. Hey, it's Chrissy Feeling today's conversation. Dig deeper with today's guest and hear more from all our groundbreaking guests on Audible. From bestsellers and new releases to podcasts and Audible originals, discover the next step on your journey. Go to audible.com chrissyonaudible okay, I'm glad we addressed the elephant in the room about my drinking. Let's talk about your Audible original. What do you hope listeners will get from completing the 30 day journey?

[Holly Whitaker]

I think that, you know, a lot of the stuff that we've talked about is something far off in the future, like the fixing thing, and then you'll be good, you know, and so much about this is participation and only participation and just the act of actually engaging with something that's terrifying right now. If you picked this up and you being in the situation that you're in actually would be perfect. Right and you just start listening to it. All I want people to get out of it is to like, you probably feel a little bit better having had this conversation. Yeah, that's what I want people to get out of it. I want them to feel a little bit better. Because a lot of our hell comes from sitting alone with our thoughts and a lot of our goodness comes from sitting with the heavy stuff or looking at it and sorting through it. And it feels so much better once we do that. Right. And so for me, people are going to be changed. Like it's a guide that will change your behavior, change your outlook. In the same way, I think when you engage with anything, people will get a lot of by just participating in and not having to actually achieve something at the end to prove that they've done it right.

[Chrissy Teigen]

In the 30 day journey, will people still be drinking?

[Holly Whitaker]

I don't care. The point of it is not to police people's behavior around drinking. We have so much of that going on already. It is really, like I said, I hope people just use it. It is written in a way. I have used days and affirmations like this for years with people to help them change their behavior. And it is one of those things where it literally is like we're going to talk about everything else but the shitty thing, you know, so you to actually engage and experience some kind of shift and change. But it's not the grueling, you know, the scary crappy stuff.

[Chrissy Teigen]

You remind me of my therapist when I first actually like told him that I was drinking again and I expected this big huge reaction. Like, oh, like just I expected him to be so bummed out and so mad at me and he was just like, I don't care.

[Holly Whitaker]

Okay, well I mean people like imagine I have a lot of friends that go in and out or I just have had so many people break to me over the years that they're drinking again. And I'm like, I love you so much and I actually now even tell people, hey, if you read my book and you change your relationship with alcohol, just know I don't care. I really care about your well being and I hope that you get something about this. But I don't give a shit whether or not you drink or don't. It's not up to me, buddy, you know? So yeah, like so you are so you are so you're drinking again. That's a fact.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Each day of the 30 day guide is anchored with a specific affirmation. What was your guiding principle in choosing them?

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah, for 10 years I've been writing affirmations and essays for people. Like, narrative is really important, like hearing someone else's story, right? Along with some kind of easy thought that you can repeat throughout the day. An affirmation. You know what, an affirmation. Have you used affirmations before?

[Chrissy Teigen]

I love doing it when I do it.

[Holly Whitaker]

Totally. Yeah. So you listen. You do it while you listen in this case. Right. But. But the point is, for years I have been doing this and working the. The affirmations that I've chosen. Again, it goes back to a lot of what we've been talking about, which is we don't have to just talk about the alcohol and the consumption. We're going to talk about all this other stuff that goes into why we use certain coping mechanisms, Right. Rather than just talking about the coping mechanism. And so these are all of these from this. Some of them are old, some of them are new, but they are. They're. They're really written in a way to kind of create a journey. You know, the first affirmation is I'm willing to start before I'm ready. And we talk about the importance of starting things before we feel like we're ready. Right. But maybe not too soon. Right? Like, not. But starting before we're ready. So that gets us into it. And then we start moving through just like, really key and core concepts about trusting the process, seeing challenges as, you know, like, not obstacles, but just the path that you're on. But really, each of the affirmations are built in order to kind of day over day, give the listener a chance to, I think, like, there's a ton of repetition involved. Gives them a chance to go out into the world, practice the affirmations, and also be changed by them, and then come back the next day and find something that's maybe complimentary to what they were practicing the day before or furthers that lesson. So they're built on each other, right? And so one of them might be, you know, how we recover is no one else's business. So that's one of them. And it's, you know, all about, like, what other people's opinions are of the substances or whatever it is that I'm doing with my body is like, it's not their business, right? It's this reclamation. Well, what does that have to do? It has to do with boundaries. So the next day we stay on boundaries and we work with what other kind of boundaries we can extend into. And again, this is not about drinking how much you're putting into your Body. It's about all the stuff that kind of goes around that.

[Chrissy Teigen]

For me, one of the most interesting parts of the audible original is day nine, which begins with the mantra that our behaviors make sense. Can you unpack what that means? And that our addictions are actually useful.

[Holly Whitaker]

People do things because they benefit them. And what I've heard from you so far is you've said that it turns it down, it makes it softer, just a little bit. It makes your life easier. That's lovely. Right? I'm assuming there are many, many different things that you could come up with with that are the reasons that you're using alcohol or the reasons that you haven't made the change that you think you're supposed to change. Right. But all of these things start to kind of normalize and help us to actually get in touch with. Well, it does this for me. It helps with my social anxiety when I'm in a crazy situation. Maybe it helps you unwind. Maybe it helps you be more, you know, when you have to be on, you have to be on. You have to perform, you know, all the time. So it helps you. It helps you live your life. There's things about it that are very beneficial to you. And we discount that because we're so. A lot of times we think, well, that's just reinforcing it and making it okay. And it is okay. You're using this. And when you look at it, when we kind of inhabit our adult self in this, we're not just coming from this place of like, oh, shit, I need to fix this. But I'm curious, why am I doing that? What does it do for me? Does these things. Do I want to get it from the source? Is alcohol the source? I want to be providing this? Or could I get this? Or maybe could I do some different things to change how, you know, anxious I get before? Could I do something to offset the anxiety? Right. So you understand all the reasons you're using it. You decide, is this the tool I want to use? Because there's also negative things that are associated with it. And how else might I achieve. Turning the volume down and turning the volume down might be, you know, getting deep with some of the shame stuff and like, casting it off.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Discuss with me the importance of self compassion in this process.

[Holly Whitaker]

I was just talking about self compassion with my friend this morning because I've not really. I've been really, really fucking hard on myself recently.

[Chrissy Teigen]

You know, so easily extend it to others. Like, it's so clear to me that I can.

[Holly Whitaker]

I have so Much compassion for people being fucked up, but not for myself. It's very hard for me. Yeah, thank you for saying that. But anyway, I just, I feel like compassion, self compassion is one of these things. We are just so mean to ourselves. What you just told me is really mean. It's just we're so fucking mean to ourselves. And I feel like not everything is, you know, always a thing to be working on. I'm really tired of always being in process. I'm sure you are too. And I don't want to just be a thing that I'm always working on. But I feel like self compassion is one of those things that like, I don't think I'm ever gonna get it, you know, And I think that's okay. And I think that the path to really giving ourselves, you know, I see you too. I see how you love people and you're actually like, you are a very generous, inclusive, forgiving person. That's your spirit. You love people, right? It is, it's really hard to give to ourselves. And I think like for people like us, I think a lot of people end up, you know, with addictions that are very sensitive people.

[Chrissy Teigen]

So tell me what a sloth break is and why is it important that we take them?

[Holly Whitaker]

That's such a good question. Thanks for asking for me. Like, it goes back to like a really good example is back when I was drinking, I would love hangover days because I would just stay in bed, get stoned, eat all the food, you know, like just fuck off all weekend. And I am a type A, always doing. You know, the only time I ever gave myself a break was when I was like self induced sickness and I missed hangovers because of that. One of the hardest things that you can tell someone to do. So I built this, I've built this into a lot of the processes I've done with clients for years of just like in the middle of our process, we just completely check out. We take a day where we do nothing. You really try to go hardcore and like maybe not even brush your teeth. Like it's just total sloth, right? Like just allowing yourself to completely let your nervous system replenish, right.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And I love that you give permission to people to do that because some of us need permission.

[Holly Whitaker]

You need permission and you need someone sometimes to really like. I mean I work one on one with clients sometimes and I'm just like, you really have to like consec to work and you really have to stay in bed all day. Like you really have to do that.

[Chrissy Teigen]

You Know, can't even fathom it. So excited for my sloth break. Let's talk about this idea of being willing to disappoint people. You know, this is a big one for me. You say that what I think I owe to people and what I actually owe to people are two different things. Explain to me what this means as well as the importance of actually disappointing people.

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah, I mean, I think like kind of just off of what I was just saying about the impossibility of living today. Right. It's impossible. There's no way, Right. That we are going to be people that don't disappoint people and also have full lives. Right. I think, like I was just talking about this because I mean, the affirmation is I'm willing to disappoint people. And it really, like I just said, like, I don't disappoint myself, I disappoint other people. Right. Not as a. I'm a really good friend and community member, but I mean in the sense of like in those situations where you're making a choice that's totally letting you down and you're making it to not disappoint someone. We naturally let people down by drinking again, by not living up to someone's standards, by not returning a phone call, by not remembering a birthday, by not showing up in the way we, you know, by like you could do everything right and you're still going to disappoint people. Right. It comes back to the self compassion piece. Disappointing other people can sometimes be a great act. Like allowing ourselves to disappoint other people and not disappointing ourselves and being able to just live with that. Right. It's being an adult is living with the fact that people are disappointed with you. Right. But also the self compassion pieces. I don't know. Not feeling disappointed, even though it hurts a little to disappoint someone, not feeling disappointed in yourself, you know, not having.

[Chrissy Teigen]

It weigh you down for days on end.

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Oh, I can't imagine one day we'll get there. You discuss how practicing gratitude, even for the shitty things, can be really powerful. How so?

[Holly Whitaker]

You know, this is something that comes from Melody Beatty's work. She's the lady that wrote the codependency book. Codependency no more. Her practice of gratitude. Because gratitude's pretty hard for me. Right? Like I can't just. I'm not just a gratitude list maker. My life hasn't been changed by gratitude in this grand way that like I feel. So anyway, I have a complicated relationship to it, but I also know it works. Right. And Melody Beatty came up with this process of, you're writing out a gratitude list every night, but you're not writing out, you know, kittens and blueberries and, you know, baths. You're also like, that I'm in. You know, that I'm a raging bulimic and I haven't gotten help yet, that I cheated on my husband and, like, you know, he's leaving me. And, you know, whatever it is, you're writing down, like, the real, real shit, you know, of stuff you're not grateful for, stuff you wish was not happening. And Melody Beatty draws a distinction. Right. I believe she lost a son. Right. And she is very clear that, like, it's not about being great. Like, it's not that bullshit. Be grateful for everything. You're not. I'm grateful someone got hurt. Right. But you're. You're using it as a way to bring in the stuff you really don't want to be facing. Because you don't know.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

You don't know. Like, the best things turn into the worst things. So often the worst things turn into the best things. And we don't know, but we concretize.

[Chrissy Teigen]

So hard and, like, absolutely a better person for the terrible things that have happened to me. Yeah. Like, would I be thankful, like, oh, so, so grateful I lost my baby, but no. And so grateful I got canceled? Like, no, of course, but. But my God, my life has changed for dramatically. Dramatically the levels of empathy I have for people. Like, the different treatments and programs that I've gotten to go through with mental health wise, and the way I think and operate and the way I move is so vastly different and that I would never want it to happen again, but I would have. I cannot see myself having survived being the same person that I was before all this.

[Holly Whitaker]

So I think, like, for me, I try and incorporate into my life, like, when I do gratitude lists and I actually do this practice a lot, I just write a list out and it's just like, all the things I love. And it's also, like. And when I said that thing the other day to that woman, you know, just that the stuff that you really rake yourselves over the coals or that you feel so bad about or so cringey about, you just are like, you're blessing it, you know, because that's in there, too. You're here today because of that stuff, too.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And now for the toolkit. Each episode, our guests distill their expertise into practical and actionable insights. Today, Holly Whitaker shares an essential breathing exercise for managing a craving.

[Holly Whitaker]

So I'm going to lead you through an exercise that's going to help you manage a craving. This is actually a breath that I learned in my own Kundalini training. It's called Citali breath. And it's something that is really easy to access. And actually, for me, I. You know, for me, I really, really need to work with my nervous system and grounding. This is a really, like. It's a yummy breath. How I experience it is basically, it makes my body feel heavier. It makes me want to yawn. I. It kicks off my parasympathetic nervous system. I think all breathing does it, all intentional breathing does. But this specifically is a breath that I use to essentially trigger the same kind of release that I get if I am using something to take the edge off. Right. And so you're gonna use this when you are having that sense of feeling like, I might punch my fist through if I don't get it. Like, whatever it is, you know, that strong signature, turn it off.

[Chrissy Teigen]

The acknowledgement that you have a craving is so big because I find so often that I don't acknowledge that time. It's like, I want a drink and I'm having that drink.

[Holly Whitaker]

Totally. You don't. And in between times, that space is so big. It's so big. So big. It is, because it gives you a second to actually make a choice, even if the choice is the same one you were going to make automatically. Yeah. And so this is part of that. You can use this as a way to access that space. This could be, I have a craving. I use this breath, and then I access my space. So it could just be a thing that you use. But it's also something that when you are. When you're in a craving and you just need yourself to kind of move through to the other side. This is a really good tool to use. It's also incredibly good to use before parties. So it's something that I used before I got here today, and I also use it when I'm upregulated. So we're gonna start. This one is something that, like, I set a timer, and sometimes I'll do it for a minute to three minutes so you don't have to get your posture right or anything. You do want to try and allow yourself so that you have access to your diaphragm. You don't want to be, like, slouched over or slumped. You're just trying to basically maybe sit as much as you can. On your sits bones or like your butt to kind of get that erect spine so you just have more room in your rib cage. But you don't have to get this part right. Like, don't worry about this. But that's just one little tip that could make you access breath better. I like to pull my chin in. I like to kind of straighten my neck out just so I am signaling to myself that I am here. I'm a rod. I'm ready. And then you're sucking air in through your lips. So it's just like that. So. Yep. So you got it like you're holding a piece of paper through your lips. And now you're gonna breathe in and then you're gonna exhale out through the nose.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Do you suck it in through the.

[Holly Whitaker]

Lips, through the lips, down the. Yeah. So you're gonna breathe the breath in. You got it through the. Like, to the stomach and then out the nose. And a lot of times you'll feel this need to yawn. Cause your energy shifts so much by doing this breath. So you've just done like five rounds. Maybe do one more again. It's just pulling the air in through purse lip, down the back of the throat into the belly, and then breathing out through the nose. So how do you feel?

[Chrissy Teigen]

Good. That feels way better than the normal breathing. I find myself very shaky in, like, the meditation type breathing. It's like. It's like I'm breathing and I'm. Here's me inhaling and here's me. But I like that. It's. It's more of a job.

[Holly Whitaker]

It's really subtle and you're using. It's the way the breath is coming in. It's a cooling breath.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

And it's the way you're bringing it and drawing it over the tongue. Your body receives it as this, like, loosener.

[Chrissy Teigen]

It's very activating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, even my eyes are, like, bleary.

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah. It's one of my favorites. And so this is what I use to typically quell my anxiety and ground my body.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Holly Whitaker, I want to thank you so much for being here and joining me on self Conscious. It's such an honor to have you in my home here in person, when you've truly done so much for me and so much many people out there.

[Holly Whitaker]

Thank you.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Holly Whitaker's 30 days to a New Relationship with Alcohol is available on Audible. Until then, tune in, turn on, and feel better. This is Chrissy Teigen, and you've been listening to Self Conscious, an audible original podcast this has been an Audible original product produced by Audible and Huntley Productions Hosted by Chrissy Teigen, Executive Producer for Huntley Productions Chrissy Teigen, Executive Producer for Audible Stacy Creamer Recorded and engineered by Alex Skye Mixed and mastered by Jeremiah Zimmerman Edited by Lisa Orkin Head of Creative Development at Audible Kate Navin, Chief Content Officer Rachel Giazza Copyright 2024 by Audible Originals, LLC Sound Recording Copyright 2024 by Audible Originals LL.