Self-Conscious with Chrissy Teigen

Episode: Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo: Strategies for Male Friendship (With John Legend)

Date: October 23, 2025
Featured Guests: Matt Ritter, Aaron Caro, John Legend
Host: Chrissy Teigen

Episode Overview

In this candid and compelling episode, Chrissy Teigen explores the complexities and challenges of male friendship, highlighting why cultivating strong connections is crucial for men’s well-being—and by extension, for the health of their relationships. Joined by Matt Ritter and Aaron Caro—hosts of the "Man of the Year" friendship podcast and authors of the Audible Original, "The Buddy System"—as well as her husband John Legend, Chrissy dives into the traditions, barriers, misconceptions, and the importance of intentional male bonding. The discussion is rich with practical advice, honest reflections, and memorable moments on how men (and their partners) can foster lasting, meaningful friendships.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Loneliness Crisis Among Men

[00:03–04:13]

• Chrissy’s Opening: Sets the stage by addressing how many men’s “friendships” are superficial, leading to loneliness—a serious risk factor for depression and even early death.
  • “Maybe he has a poker night once a year, but let’s be real. He doesn’t have anyone he can call when he's sad…” (Chrissy, 00:23)
• Research Highlight: 15% of men have zero close friends; loneliness is an increasing societal problem.
• John’s Perspective: Acknowledges the growing cultural conversation about men’s isolation.

2. Friendship Rituals, Traditions, and the "Buddy System"

[04:13–06:05]

• Matt & Aaron’s Tradition: Annual dinner at Peter Luger’s with their core friend group, culminating in a humorous but bonding “Man of the Year” award.
  • “We know where we're gonna be 50 years from now, if we're alive.” (Matt, 04:04)
• Importance of Rituals: Regular, calendared traditions serve as the glue for enduring friendships.

3. Understanding Why Male Friendship Falters

[06:05–11:03]

• Technology’s Impact: Social media and tech have made people “chronically online,” but less skilled at real-life connection.
  • “Friendship is a muscle, it's a habit… You’re going to have to work at it.” (Matt, 06:37)
• Cultural Stigma: Displays of male vulnerability ("I love you, man") are often ridiculed.
  • “People think saying I love you… that's weak. It's the opposite.” (Matt, 07:46)
• Practical Hack: Gradually move from “thank you” to “I love you” with friends to normalize emotional expression. (Aaron, 09:04)

4. Structural Obstacles & The Fragility of Adult Male Friendship

[09:28–11:03]

• Men lose “pre-made” social structures (school, dorms) after college, and struggle to maintain or form new friendships amidst work, moving, and family.
  • “Men don't have falling outs, they have falling offs.” (Aaron, 09:54)
• TCS Framework: Text weekly, Call monthly, See quarterly—a practical rubric for sustaining friendships. (Matt, 10:43)

5. The Partner's Role in Men’s Friendships

[11:03–16:03]

• Not Enough to Be Each Other’s Only Friend: Partners shouldn’t be the sole source of social support.
  • “Why should one person have to carry all of the weight… at all times?” (Matt, 11:11)
• Women’s Experience: Many reach out to Matt and Aaron seeking advice for their isolated partners.

6. Guilt, Gender Roles, and Encouraging Friendships

[13:43–16:03]

• Time Management Challenges: Work and family pressures make men feel guilty for seeing friends.
  • “I feel like I should commit most of my available time to my wife and my kids...” (John, 13:43)
• Permission and Support: Sometimes, men need a nudge or explicit assurance that it’s OK to socialize.

7. Social Fitness and Balancing Relationships

[17:25–21:22]

• Social Fitness: Maintenance of friendships should be as intentional as physical or mental health.
  • “When you hear ‘relationship’ you think of your wife… we wanted to make sure that friendship is an important part of that.” (Aaron, 17:25)
• Trust and Boundaries: Healthy friendships are part of trust-building in relationships; partners should get to know each other’s friends and address concerns constructively.

8. The "Toxic" Friend & Friendship Inventory

[21:30–25:00]

• Identifying Toxicity: Assess if a friend is truly harmful (e.g., promotes infidelity, substance abuse) or if there’s a different issue.
• Letting Go: Sometimes, maintaining unhealthy friendships is inertia—do a "friendship inventory" periodically. (Aaron’s birthday ritual, 24:37)

9. Making Friends as Adults—Especially in a New City

[25:25–30:08]

• Practical Advice for Newcomers:
  • Use “warm leads”—ask friends and family if they know anyone local.
  • Expand through “friends of friends.”
• Third Places: Find regular communal spaces (gym, sports, book clubs, etc.) to cultivate connections.
  • “Third place is somewhere you go consistently, regularly, where people go to socialize.” (Matt, 27:25)
• Hosting as a Path to Friendship: Embrace the role if you have the space and resources—even if people come for the events, friendships can still flourish.

10. Closing Wisdom: Never Too Late & The Power of Showing Up

[30:13–30:39]

• Matt: “It’s never too late… you start now.”
• Aaron: “Friendship is two words: showing up… for the good stuff and the bad stuff.” (30:39)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Chrissy: “He says he has friends. He texts someone about fantasy football once a week. He’s in a group chat called the Dudes that mostly sends memes in silence.” (00:12)
• Matt: “We say I love you at the end of each pod. That's weak. It's the opposite.” (07:46)
• Aaron: “Men don't have falling outs, they have falling offs.” (09:54)
• John: “After three weeks of me being on tour, then come home and be like, yeah, I'm gonna go out with the guys for dinner. It feels like, yeah…” (15:26)
• Matt: “You're the average of the five people you hang out with.” (21:22)
• Matt: “It's never too late. You could have a 22 year tradition and look back and go, oh my God…” (30:23)
• Aaron: “It's two words. Showing up.” (30:39)

Important Timestamps

• 00:03: Chrissy’s introduction & framing the male loneliness crisis
• 03:20: Matt & Aaron introduce themselves and friendship tradition
• 04:39: Evolution of the Man of the Year ritual
• 06:05: Impact of technology and the “habit of friendship”
• 07:35: Online hate about male vulnerability ("little bitch shit")
• 09:43: The TCS (“Text, Call, See”) rubric
• 11:03: Why wives/partners aren’t enough as sole friend
• 13:43: John & Chrissy discuss guilt and time management
• 17:25: Concept of “social fitness”
• 21:22: On the influence of your five closest friends
• 22:11: What makes a friend “toxic” and strategies for addressing it
• 24:37: Aaron’s yearly “friendship inventory” spreadsheet
• 25:25: Making new friends in a new city
• 27:25: The “third place” as context for building friendships
• 30:23: Never too late to build tradition
• 31:13: Toolkit: “Mandate” Exercise—guided, actionable steps to help partners encourage male friendship

Actionable Toolkit: The “Mandate” Exercise

[31:13–40:44]

• Modeling a “Mandate”: Partners can proactively plan a recurring social outing (“mandate”) for their spouse/partner with a friend.
  • Step 1: Identify a friend who brings out the best in your partner.
  • Step 2: Clear the calendar/logistical hurdles for both parties.
  • Step 3: Make it non-negotiable (“you can’t come, you can’t stay home”).
  • Step 4: Be specific—set the date, time, and activity.
  • Follow-Up: Upon return, encourage reflection and schedule the next get-together.
• Emphasizes emotional maturity and relationship maintenance.
  • “At the end of the day, he's happy, you're happy, your relationship has more oxygen. This is not micromanaging. This is emotional maturity. This is relationship maintenance. This is what love looks like.” (Matt, 40:27)

Conclusion

Bold, honest, and insightful, this episode of Self-Conscious uses humor and empathy to unpack the difficulties men have forming and maintaining adult friendships—ultimately reframing the issue as central not just to male wellness, but to the health of relationships and families. With practical takeaways like the “mandate” and encouragement to start traditions at any age, Matt, Aaron, Chrissy, and John provide a toolkit for listeners to strengthen social bonds, dismantle cultural stigma, and show up for each other—one steak dinner, heartfelt text, or awkward “I love you, man” at a time.