← Self-Conscious with Chrissy Teigen
Self-Conscious with Chrissy Teigen
RE-RELEASE: Dr. Becky Kennedy—Chrissy Gets the Most Important Parenting Advice You’ll Ever Need
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- [00:03]
Chrissy Teigen
You're listening to Self Conscious with Chrissy Teigen, an Audible original podcast. Join me as we explore the cutting edge of health, wellness, and personal growth with the world's leading experts and thinkers. From inspiring stories to actionable insights, our conversations aim to help you lead a healthier, happier, and more productive life. Here's the thing about parenting. It doesn't just reveal who your kids are. It reveals who you are. It brings up your strengths, your fears, your old wounds, all of it. And while we're busy trying to shape our kids into kind, resilient humans, we're also learning how to do that for ourselves, maybe for the first time. I used to think that being good meant being perfect. That if I got everything right, I'd be loved. And when I became a mom, that old story didn't go away. It just got louder. But here's what I know. We don't need to be perfect to be good. We don't need to fix every feeling or win every moment. We just need to stay connected to our kids and to ourselves. That's exactly what my next guest teaches. Dr. Becky Kennedy, known to millions as Dr. Becky, is a clinical psychologist, bestselling author, and the voice behind one of the most influential parenting movements today. Her book, Good Inside, has helped countless families really rethink what it means to raise emotionally healthy kids. It's not about controlling their behavior. It's about understanding it. It's not about fixing your child. It's about seeing them and with compassion. Today, we're talking about all of it. The tantrums, the triggers, the power of repair, and what it really means to raise kids and raise yourself. Dr. Becky, welcome to Self Conscious. This is really exciting for me, but very exciting to everyone. In my multiple different mom chats. I have a Girl Scout mom chat, a third grade mom chat, a first grade mom chat, and I guess two preschool mom chats. And I said that I was speaking to you today and oh my gosh, I've never seen such a response from people. So you are beloved.
- [02:15]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Oh, thank you. And I will try to be on my game tonight.
- [02:20]
Chrissy Teigen
To me, everybody knows who you are. Everybody's read Good Inside. But for people that haven't, obviously your big thing is all kids are good Inside. What does that really mean and why is it so powerful?
- [02:33]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
I was trained as a clinical psychologist to work with parents in the same model of parenting. I think we either learned or just was passed down generation to generation. A kid acts out, say a kid hits, and to some degree you give a punishment or you Threaten to give a punishment which you probably like me, don't really follow up on, but it feels really powerful in the moment. Or you give this time out that you're like, okay, go to your room and you have a two minute timeout, or you tell a kid a good behavior and you give them a sticker and five stickers. And that's how I was trained. And that's what I was doing in my private practice. I just was brought up to be like a good student. I didn't really question. I was like, okay, this is how things are done. But then this thing happened in my private practice as a clinical psychologist where I was seeing people for parenting, right, okay, my kids are fighting, there's hitting, there's rudeness. But then maybe in the next session I would see adults who just came for therapy. And what I started to notice in the course of my days was, this is crazy. Like, when an adult comes to me in almost every session, we talk about, quote, bad behavior, an adult. I'm in this bad place with my partner or I can't motivate to get out of bed and do something I know is gonna be good for me. And never once did I lead with, go to your room or give me your phone for a week, or if you don't get out of bed and go to the gym by the time I see you next week, I'm not gonna see you anymore. No one would ever come to my office again. And kept wondering, why are we doing this with kids? And what adults need can't be that different from what kids need. And I just started to question all of these assumptions. If you don't punish a kid's behavior, you're letting them get away with it. What if that wasn't true? And so really what I was left with was two things. Kids are born good inside and that kids are born with all the feelings and none of the skills to manage feelings. And the gap in my mind between feelings and skills always explains bad behavior, whether we're talking about kids or adults. When I yell at my husband, it's because feeling frustrated or feeling unseen or underappreciated was more powerful in the moment than my skills to manage that feeling. And I kept thinking, wait. Sending a kid to their room, giving them a timeout, even giving them stickers, I don't think these are how we build skills. I don't teach my kids how to swim by sending them to their room when they can't swim. I teach them how to swim by teaching and practicing and what if we had a whole system for teaching kids emotion regulation skills so that way the skills could match a kid's feelings and not only does that lead to better behavior, that actually means we're raising the kind of kids who become adults who.
- [05:15]
Chrissy Teigen
Can well rounded adults in the world.
- [05:19]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
And once I started thinking that way, I just couldn't unthink it. And I wanted to build up a whole new system that was still practical and very actionable, but really helped our kids. But also I think Chrissy helped us. So much of the not so good inside is through parenting we can build the skills we still want to build for ourselves at the same time, or giving them to our kids and we heal ourselves.
- [05:43]
Chrissy Teigen
I was waiting for it. We finally got our first phone call home with hitting. And I was like, oh my gosh. And then when I looked at John, I was like, I don't really know how to handle this because you obviously want to get the context around it. You want to try to understand because, you know, at school, I don't know if there's any non parents listening. They won't tell you ever who they got in a fight with. They're not like, oh, there was this big fight between Miles and so. And so they're like, there was a fight, an incident involving Miles. And so you kind of like rack your brain and guessing, who could it be? Who do I have to apologize to? Because me and John are the kind of parents where we're always gonna side with the adults. We love our kids. Yes. But we're gonna side with teachers and professionals here. So you try to guess that and then you're left with, okay, now we need to have a talk. And I don't really know what I'm doing.
- [06:38]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
You wanna jump into that? That's such a good example because I think it's. First of all, every one of us, me too, have gotten this call and I actually think really matters, which really is in some ways the biggest part of like the good inside philosophy is this idea of separating behavior and identity. And this actually has to do with, we need a strategy to stay grounded and be in the right mindset way before we intervene with our kid. Every parent's like, well, what do I do? What do I say when they get home? Well, actually, before we figure out what to say and do, let's think about your framework for viewing it, because that is what your kid is even gonna feel. And so I think we all do this thing and classic parenting is based on this tendency we have, which is when we See, bad behavior, we kind of assume we know everything there is to know about a person. We do this as adults, too. Someone's late, they're lazy, right? I yell at my kid, I'm a monster. It's like, whoa, I take one behavior. And instead of saying, behavior is something I do, identity is a person. I am, I think, good inside is the idea. I am a good person. And over here is probably a whole host of behaviors that I'm not particularly proud of. And so when I think about the situation, I think step one is, first of all, I have a good kid who hit. That actually is so much more powerful than we think.
- [07:57]
Chrissy Teigen
I do love that you say so often that two things can be true at once. I live my life by this.
- [08:02]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Exactly like, I have a good kid. That Miles is the same good kid as he was before he hit. He hasn't changed at his core. So he's a good kid who had a hard moment. And when you see the gap between identity and behavior, our brain naturally starts to want to problem solve, which is great as opposed to when we don't have a gap. It's easy to say, and it sounds like this didn't happen for you, but it can for some parents. You're intervening with your kid as soon as they get off the bus like they're the enemy. What's wrong with you? We don't hit in this family. And then any conversation and understanding that could have happened. If anyone approaches me in that way, why were you late? We don't come late to meetings. I'm, like, immediately on the defensive. And so I have a good kid who hit someone at school. That's just such a helpful step one. Step two, I think, is actually approaching your kid at any age like you are on the same team against a problem as opposed to seeing them like they are the problem. This is also true in marriages, right? Like, we are on the same team against a problem. So I could see saying, miles, I got a call from your school. And I think this is actually really helpful for parents. We ask kids questions sometimes that we already have the answer to. Did anything happen at school today? And we're, like, asking our kid to lie, and then we get mad. Like, we can just. I think in general, adults, kids don't ask people questions you know the answer to. They feel it. It doesn't feel good. I heard about something that happened in school. I heard there was an incident. I heard you ended up hitting. Here's something else. I know you're a good kid. Like, you're not in trouble. Actually, my job with you right now is to try to just figure out what was going on. Because there probably will be another situation where something feels hard again. And if we figure out today what happened, my guess is that situation will go in a better way. So tell me about the situation.
- [09:49]
Chrissy Teigen
Oh, absolutely. Thinking about the next time it happens is such a big Right. That's really. And I really have never thought about it that way before, but it's gonna completely change how safe they're feeling with you. To be able to come to you next time when something like that happens.
- [10:02]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Well, I think that's such an important part of it. I have a seven year old, he's my youngest. But this kid, he's just. He's not a people pleaser. He is so strong. He's so magnetic. And I'm always like, whatever the he did in school, let's be honest, like, he's gonna do something probably a little trickier. At age 18, the stakes only get higher. And so, yes, we want our kids to remember in their body when something not so great happened. I had a conversation with my parent that wasn't an ice cream party. I'm not gonna be like, you hit here's ice cream. That's just weird. But I did feel like a safe adult because their body will remember that when they're at a party and people are drinking and they're making a decision about, do I call my mom and tell her I needed to be picked up, or does, like, it's just gonna end up making me feel worse?
- [10:47]
Chrissy Teigen
Yeah.
- [10:48]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
And then the other thing is, yes, If a kid hits, like, the good news about bad behavior is it always tells you a skill your kid needs to work on. So maybe again, I'm making this up, but maybe he says, we were on the playground and, I don't know, some kids were being really mean and they said, I'm the worst player at basketball. Let's just say it's that I would think in my head or I try to, oh, so when my kid is made fun of or put down, the feeling of, ugh, I'm a loser, or no one likes me is really big, and so I need to help my kid learn. What do I say to myself in that situation? How do I walk away? Maybe it's very different. Maybe someone cut him in line and he was just really full of frustration. But by inquiring, like, just what was going on? Where were you when that happened? Tell me your side of the story. I think we worry that makes the behavior, okay, but if I think about any good or any good sports coach and their player has a bad game or someone has a meeting where you're like, you just blew up the presentation, a good manager or coach goes to that person after and says, hey, what was going on? Let's figure it out together.
- [11:52]
Chrissy Teigen
Yeah. It's so interesting because by having him describe what happened, I realized that it wasn't just a one off thing because the hitting itself was a one off thing. It had began from play fighting which I witness between him and Luna all the time. That quickly goes wrong, right? And then all of a sudd and it's a real fight and bam. And then what the teachers had brought up or the specialists was that he had a really hard time taking accountability with it later. And I'm like, oh that's, that's not just today. That's a thing that we need to work on then. Because he always wants to move on really quickly. He did something bad. He does not want to talk about it. He does not want to like how, okay, I'm never going to do it again, I promise and let's move on past it. Can I go play?
- [12:36]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
And on that. I think shame plays a much bigger role in our kids development than we think. And I think becoming like a shame.
- [12:44]
Chrissy Teigen
It'S gotta be handed down. Then the word shame, like whenever I hear it even I'm like, I feel.
- [12:49]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
It, I feel it deeply.
- [12:51]
Chrissy Teigen
Yeah.
- [12:51]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
How do you feel it? What happens for you? Where do you go?
- [12:53]
Chrissy Teigen
Well, when you said you can feel things in your body, that word just makes me like, I can feel it in my chest.
- [12:59]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
This isn't anything you did or passed on to him inherently, right? Because shame, like my definition of shame, right is it's the fear of discontent, connection. I'm doing something, I'm in a certain part of myself, I'm feeling something that makes me almost feel unlovable to others or not good enough. The adults around me don't really want this version of me. And that's often how we develop shame. And shame actually is evolutionarily adaptive because kids job is to figure out who am I supposed to be, what's allowed. And if they do learn growing up, oh, every time I get mad, essentially I get sent to my room, right? Then they learn anger is dangerous, like I shouldn't feel anger. And they almost develop shame around it which ironically as we know, only makes it more explosive and harder to manage. But they're trying to shut it down. And so when I think about a kid who can't apologize or struggles to take accountability. Actually, I think the reason I think there's shame present is because what they're saying, and most kids go through this, not just Miles, is, I don't even want to, like, look at this thing I did because it makes me worried. Is this. Is this so bad? Am I so unlovable? Am I such a bad kid if I once in a while, once in a blue moon, hit someone that it almost would be better if this thing wasn't even real and I could just move on to being good again? Right? And so what it almost requires going back to this is Miles learning. Hold on a second. I'm a good person who did this thing. I am not all of a sudden this bad, unlovable kid just because I hit. And that's actually the idea of I'm a good person who good kids hit. Sometimes good kids lie, good kids shout, I hate you. Good adults do all those things too, right? That actually helps someone take accountability because they're not sacrificing their whole identity by facing the truth. And one simple thing, just because I like to make it actionable. When kids won't take accountability, sometimes unintentionally, we increase shame. And I've done this with my kids. Just say sorry. It's not a big deal. And all kids feel from us is, oh, my goodness, my mom thinks I'm such a bad kid. I'm even worse of a kid. I'm even more in this tunnel. And they have to freeze even more versus and you don't know who the kid is. But let's say this happened in front of you and your kid's like, I'm not apologizing. It's so frustrating. You know what, Myles? I'm gonna find your apology voice for you. Hey, Luna. I'm sorry I hit. I got overwhelmed. That wasn't okay. Next time I'm just gonna use my words. And then in some ways, what we're saying to our kid is, I see the good kid in you even when you are shut down. And that is, I actually have seen it be so effective a few times. And then all of a sudden, you hear your kid able to do that on their own.
- [15:51]
Chrissy Teigen
I love hearing things like that because they're the kinds of things that you can't help but remember the next time that something like that happens. Cause it's gonna happen soon. Pro but in the way that I'm going to be able to handle it. It's like such a nice tool to have next time When I'm like really a blank slate when it comes to.
- [16:10]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Parenting, it's like the biggest gift. It's a huge privilege to give your kids.
- [16:20]
Chrissy Teigen
I didn't have super strict parents, but I had parents that were like a little indifferent. I wanted to ask you because you talk about something where you mentioned that kids need to see that we are reflecting back what they need to see, especially babies. When I was a little baby, if I was sad, I wasn't really met with a parent's face that was sad for me or when I was happy. I didn't have a parent that was like giggly, giggly. It was just kind of indifference. It was just blank. So I never knew if how I was feeling or behaving was right. And so it's affected me so much. As a near 40 year old now, I still feel that feeling inside me.
- [17:07]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
I talk about this idea that like we are our kid's mirror in terms of forming their identity.
- [17:11]
Chrissy Teigen
I often think about the fact that I had a very disconnected parent that suffered from untreated depression. And I give her a lot of grace for it, but she wasn't necessarily prepared to have an emotional connection with a baby.
- [17:26]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- [17:26]
Chrissy Teigen
And so now I know that like whenever I have a baby, cause I have so many, but like I go out of my way to make sure that they feel seen and they feel heard and that they know that I'm feeling what they're feeling. If they're feeling sad, I feel that way. I'm sad for them. If they're happy, I'm happy with them. So when you talk about the mirror, I'm sure it's not as literal for you. What does it mean exactly?
- [17:45]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah, I think our kids form their identity, a lot of it through their relationship with us. And so there's a literal sense of I'm feeling a certain way. I think sometimes we don't always want our parent to feel that way. Cause to some degree it's, oh, are my feelings, if I'm really sad, are they contagious? Like, I always think if I'm scared on a plane, I want my pilot to recognize I'm scared on the plane. But I don't really want them to be scared. I'm like, whoa, boundaries. I don't want that at all. But I think again, so much of this has to do with how overwhelmed kids are by their feelings. Feelings are this crazy thing. They're so intense in your body and yet there's no marker for them. Like when you fall and skin your knee as A kid, there's something useful being like, I'm bleeding. Like, that did happen. That's real. Sometimes I think, and this is gonna get real existential real fast. So it's just a warning that through feelings, kids are asking parents like, am I real? Do I exist when I'm sad? Having a response from a parent, not necessarily that they're sad, but even, oh, this is hard. Yes, you really want ice cream for breakfast. I believe you. Meanwhile, you might not give them ice cream. That's a totally different thing. That's a boundary. But that or you're the only one in your class who didn't get invited to Charlie's birthday party. I get why recess felt so tough. Or a baby who doesn't even have words. You're like, wow, you're really trying to reach for that and you can't get it. That's so annoying. What children learn through that is the things that live inside me that are coursing through my body and are so intense but have no external marker are real.
- [19:44]
Chrissy Teigen
Oh, my God. Did we not just talk about this? We had a huge talk with. It was high functioning depression, but it went into just trauma. And one of my biggest markers of trauma was something that simple. It was like not feeling validation ever. And you're so right. Like, I almost love the idea of getting hurt and seeing it bruise or seeing it bleed. It's real, it's tangible. That happened. It is so incredibly hard for me to feel. To know if what I'm feeling is real ever.
- [20:21]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
I have the chills as you say that. I think those words to people listening will give them language. Like, that's exactly what I go through. I think that is self doubt. Because what happens when our feelings are really big as kids and there's no one to reflect their realness? Think about it as a kid, everything you do as a kid is adaptive. Like, we are evolutionary animals. So kids are wired to figure out how to survive in their environment. So let's say starting at a baby's age, you're crying cause you're uncomfortable. It's not milk. It's not a diaper. Who knows why? I remember a line I used to always say to my kid is, you know why you're upset? I don't, but you do. And that's real. Or they're crawling. That's so annoying. Or you're upset about not being invited to the party. Right? All of those things. Right. What a kid really gets from that is, like, all the different things going on inside me are Real and I can trust them. That's what confidence is in my mind is self trust. It's not feeling good about yourself, it's self trust. And so much of that comes from our early environment where people tell us that is real. So when it's not happening, going back to adaptation, what does a kid do when the feelings are so overwhelming and no one is reflecting their realness? What do you do to try to make yourself feel calm again because you're alone with these big feelings? It's actually adaptive to start saying to yourself, I must be making a big deal out of nothing. This can't be real, right? Because self doubt, ironically, if you don't have someone with you to validate and contain the feeling with you and you're trying to get back to baseline, self doubt will help you move on and then fast forward to adulthood. Like, I hear lines that make me think about why self doubt might have been adaptive early on. Would other people feel this way? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Like back when in the dating world, like calling a million friends, hey, this guy didn't respond to my text. Any of this. Would you think that's a big deal? In some ways what you're saying is I haven't learned to trust my own sensations in my body and so I need to externalize trust. I'm still almost looking for that mirror because I didn't really get that much of it early on, to be able to do that for myself.
- [22:51]
Chrissy Teigen
I really want everyone listening out there right now to know how incredibly important this is. This is a skill set that I am trying to grow every single day because it has impacted me for so long, for too long now. And I will say that this kind of validation is so needed for children because they're going to grow up to be able to understand their feelings, how their body feels, and to make decisions where they feel confident in them.
- [23:21]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Yes.
- [23:22]
Chrissy Teigen
And I'm just telling you, I know they're kids now, but this will translate to relationships, to sex, to if they're gonna take that drug.
- [23:34]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
I think about my daughter and I don't know. And who knows who she will end up being attracted to. But let's just paint a picture. Cause it's visceral. She's in college, some guy comes up to her and they're talking, they're having a good time. And it could not be that, but let's just say it is that. And he's like, like, let's go home together. And let's say it might not Be. But something in her body's like that feels fast. I don't know if I want this. Yeah, but then next to that sensation is always going to be your early wiring. Meaning will the next voice be? I do have a tendency to make a big deal out of nothing. That is always what people told me. I do have a tendency to not really understand how things work. I do have a tendency to not trust the signals. Or will her voice say whether or not this is a big deal to someone else? My body is telling me in this moment that I don't want to. My job is not to make this easy. My job is not to make someone else happy. My job in this moment is to say to myself, I trust this caution. I'm gonna say some version of no. And so that ability at age 18 or 22, without a doubt, it is never too late. We can always develop abilities at any age. And I think you're such a good example of how the learning, the self growth should never stop. And like what an amazing true leg up in life we think about all the things we want to do for our kids. Like what's going to help them more than a math tutor. I promise you in life because the Pythagorean theorem only it only is so applicable. Okay. In life is when we say to our kids when they're young, you are really upset about this.
- [25:16]
Chrissy Teigen
I'm so aware that it's a huge issue for me that I go out of my way and it feels like performative sometimes and it doesn't feel real. But I want them to know that it only feels performative or it only seems performative because it's such a new skill set to me. I am performing in a way because I'm like, I didn't grow up around this. I have never been told myself that it was okay to feel this way or that made sense. I was scared in that moment. I've never heard those words in my life. So yes, it's going to feel a bit not real because I am trying to force myself to become this person that I wasn't growing up. How can I make it real for them?
- [25:56]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
I really feel like this question hits the nail on the head in terms of not just an important question, but to me this is like truly the biggest honor of my life to be let in on that exact dynamic for so many parents around the world. Because I think what good inside is very good at, what we are good at, is really how the parent gets impacted even more than their parenting. You're Talking about both. There's the parenting and then there's the parent where, how can I give my kids something I wasn't given? And this goes back to what's natural. What you said is so poignant. I think what comes naturally in parenting is how we were parented. And if you know, you want to do something differently, how does that work? So a couple of things, starting with number one, like, the more we actually practice the skill in our relationship with our self, that is the way things start to come more naturally over time with our kids. Right. I think everyone talked about being a cycle breaker. The first act of being a cycle breaker has nothing to do with your relationship with your kid. The first act of cycle breaking has to do with your relationship with yourself. We can really build that skill for ourselves, which means when the words come out with our kids, they will feel a little bit more authentic because we've actually been building. It's like a muscle. And so I think that's step one, step two, saying to your kids, and I was just talking to a parent about this who's. I have to have. I want to have the, like, real sex talk with my kid.
- [27:31]
Chrissy Teigen
Oh, that's right.
- [27:33]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
This weekend for me, where she's like, what's a 69? The kids laugh on the bus. Don't tell me it's a number. Don't tell me it's a number. And she's like, okay, what are we doing? Right? And I was like, the way you should start is by saying, it's the same thing here. If I sound awkward while I'm talking, it's because I'm the first person in my family to ever have this conversation.
- [27:55]
Chrissy Teigen
Oh, my God. You have no idea how much that means.
- [27:58]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Again, kids are so attuned. So we're trying to talk about sex, or we're trying to talk about how it's okay to feel sad that you were left out of a birthday party. And when kids are like, okay, how do I make sense of the awkwardness? When we don't give kids a story to understand, they tend to tell themselves the story that it's their fault because at least it gives them control. So they're like, oh, maybe I shouldn't ask mom or dad my next sex question because look what I did to them. Maybe I shouldn't feel sad about being left out, because I guess my parents said it was okay, but they felt a little awkward as soon as they have a story to understand, and they're like, the awkwardness. Oh, my mom told me it's because she's the first person to ever do this. That totally changes the game for them, which is life changing.
- [28:46]
Chrissy Teigen
We're having to do a sex talk because it's happening at their school soon and I don't want them to go into it blindly. Right? So I bought all the books, I got everything for it. And in leading up to it, we try to deal with so many things as a family with humor and openness because it is such an uncomfortable thing to talk about. If you could give advice for that talk, what would it be?
- [29:09]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah, first of all, I think naming, like I already said number one, naming what your own awkwardness means is really important. Right? That's number one.
- [29:20]
Chrissy Teigen
Never had a talk. Never. I had the Internet, right.
- [29:25]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Or the kid on the bus. That's what they, that's what kids do. I mean, to me, the sex talk is not one talk. It's a series. It's just, it's anything else. Usually. Actually, kids do become initially curious about all that. At the exact same age, they start becoming curious about death, which is early. Like it's because it makes sense. It's the two bookends of life. It's usually around age three that they're like, how did I come into this world and how will I end? How will I exit this world? That's actually an. So I know. My kids generally knew. And again, we get so general. Oh, your kids know everything about sex at age three. No, obviously I'm not talking about like porn with my 3 year old. That would be very weird. But there's no reason why they shouldn't know the word penis and vagina or they know so many complicated things. We live in New York City, we see a million things all the time. Why shouldn't they know anatomy and how humans are made? It's actually biology. It's not even sexual for the kid. But we all have so many of our own hangups that completely color things. So to me, the age kids can learn about this stuff is so much younger than we think. Because kids are curious, but they're testing the waters. Is it safe to be curious with you or is it not? And if it's not, the curiosity still lives. They're like, where can I go get this met then? And you're right, it's the Internet. It's a random 12 year old dude on the bus or like someone else who they're learning about this stuff from. And the other thing is, I often think with my kids, like when my daughter asked me about a 69 I was like, the quickest way to make something uncool is to talk to your parent about it. Literally. If she ever wants to do that with someone in her life, first off, she's ever pressured. I just picture her being like, yeah, like, my mom explained this. It's just not going to do it for me. If she wants to from a place of desire, go on with yourself. But I'm pretty sure she will never do it. In a way to try to feel cool or old or to figure it out. That's why kids do things in general. The more we don't talk to kids about things, they have to actually experiment with a behavior to figure it out. It's so counterproductive. So big picture. Like, none of this is sexual. All of this is basic information. If you've already talked to your kids about death, probably that means they are curious about birth.
- [31:45]
Chrissy Teigen
Okay, let's talk a little bit about lying. What would be the best way for any parent out there to respond to lies?
- [31:53]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Great. I really do love lying. It's one of many topics. I mean, sorry. I love talking about lying. I'm sorry, I should not go on record. Dr. Becky loves lying.
- [32:00]
Chrissy Teigen
I love lies.
- [32:01]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Dr. Becky loves lies and loves talking about how babies are made. But I think it's just one of these topics that as soon as we reframe what it really means, we're like, wait, I'm not as scared about this anymore, so let's just start with adults. I find so many times when we're locked into a situation with kids, like, why are kids doing this? And why are. Why is my kid lying to my face and then saying they're not lying? Because then we always say, if you just told me the truth, he wouldn't have gotten in trouble in the first place. And we're spiraling. So I'll ask you. Let's say my husband's like, becky, did you remember to pick up my prescription from the drugstore? I really need it now. And I'm like, oh, yeah, just one second. Let's say I didn't. Why would I lie to him about that using?
- [32:39]
Chrissy Teigen
Because the last time he got really angry when you didn't.
- [32:43]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
I think that's definitely often the case. I'll just give more another one. Like, maybe I suddenly am like, oh, shoot. Like, I forgot. I realize I forgot. And then I'm like, what kind of partner forgets? And I just feel so guilty that I don't even want to face the truth of that feeling and share it. So I concoct something. And then sometimes I think another reason why we lie, although kids lie even more for this reason, is the line between a lie and a wish isn't so clear. I really wish I remembered. I can almost convince myself that I did. This is definitely true with kids. They hear all their friends went to Disneyland and they didn't. And you hear a kid being like, I went to Disneyland over vacation. And you're like, we definitely didn't. We were right here on vacation. We didn't go anywhere. And you're like, why is my kid lying? And to some degree, they're hearing and they're like, man, I wish I went to. Yeah, wish I went to Disneyland. And so. So the first one, I think they're actually all pretty common, right? Where if I like, categorize them, kids lie to protect their relationship with us, which I know sounds weird because it can make us angry. Kids lie because they feel so guilty about something that they don't want to face the truth of what they did. And kids lie because often a lie and a wish, especially for kids who live in the world of play, it's not so obvious to them. So let's start with the first, because I think this is often the most, like, mind bending one. Because you're like, no, no, no, Dr. Becky. Like my kids, lying makes me have, in at least in that moment, a worse relationship with them. Again, kids are always paying attention to attachment, meaning what parts of me are met with my parents love attention. We know our eyes change. Like, nice eyes. And I say this as a parent who can get real darty mean eyes too. And what parts of me are met with either anger and punishment or, like, the type of disappointment that just makes me feel like I don't belong in this family in this moment? Or these eyes that make me feel like I'm a horrible person. And then it becomes adaptive for a kid to grow the parts of them that are met with love and connection and attention and really shrink or try to avoid the parts of them that. That are or will be met with this. With the disdain, with the disappointment, with the anger. So when you say to your kid, did you take money from my drawer? Meanwhile, maybe you have a nest cam. And you're like, I actually know my kid did that. And your kid's like, no. Or you see your kid knock down their sister's tower. And you're like, why did you knock down Luna's tower? And he's like, I didn't do that. And you're like, I was literally in the Room. It's really helpful to think they're actually trying to stay close to me in the moment, because on some level, they think as long as I don't tell the truth, as long as me and my mom together can avoid the truth that I did knock down her tower, she will look at me like I am this kind of good, loving kid in the family. Because as soon as I say, yes, I did that. The fear of being looked at in a different way to disconnect. Yeah, exactly. Which doesn't mean we go to the other extreme. So then when my kid knocks down the tower, I should be like, miles, let me give you a hug. I love you so much.
- [36:04]
Chrissy Teigen
Yeah.
- [36:05]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
No, there's a lot between anger and kind of dark eyes and celebration. But I think it goes back to this idea of, I have a good kid who knocked down a tower. Hey, I saw you knock down that tower. Hey, come here. What's going on? You're not in trouble. I'm gonna figure this out with you. What just happened? Or, hey, I saw in the camera. Or I know you took money from my drawer. Let me say right away, you're a good kid. I know that taking money is really serious. You must have really wanted to do that thing with your friends. And me saying no, and we just. We have to figure out a better way, because trusting each other here and talking through disagreements was probably only gonna be more and more important over the years, and we've gotta get to the bottom of this together. I know. It's so counter to what we think. It's like, I have to punish my kid. I have to not let them get away with it. But when you do that, ironically, so.
- [37:02]
Chrissy Teigen
Many of us think that if I react badly now, then it's just gonna happen again. If I don't stick to this punishment that I'm gonna give them, that they're gonna think they can walk all over us.
- [37:12]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
I love a metaphor because it helps us realize how many parenting ideas we've just digested as true, even though we ourselves don't even hold them as true in any other area of our life. So a couple. Let's say my kid is a good basketball player. Okay? Like, they're a good basketball player. But, like, now in the game, the last couple of games, they're just, like, missing layups, like, afraid. They're just, like, cannot do anything. And to me, there's a boundary needed. Maybe the coach would take them out of the game just like, hey, not your game. But then I hear the coach say this to My kid. Hey, Miles. Something's going on in the games, like the layups. Your form, your passes, it's all off. Let's meet in the gym tomorrow before practice at half an hour early. I believe in you. You're a good basketball player in a hard stage. We're gonna figure it out. I wanna know. The parent who's watching is like, I've got to get my kid a new coach. That coach is so permissive. That coach is reinforcing bad basketball behavior. We literally would never think that. And then if someone instead had a coach who's like, I'm not gonna let you get away with that. Myles, you know what? If you miss layups next week, I am not playing you for the next couple games. We think now Miles is more likely to make a layup. It's bananas. You wouldn't want that coach, and you would never call the first coach permissive. And the irony is sports and kind of management leadership in companies, we've completely changed. We've actually revolutionized the way we think about effective leadership. An effective coach would get in the gym with that player and figure out what's going on. An effective CEO. If someone's always late to work and they're an employee you care about, you'd say, hey, come into my office. You're not in trouble. I'm not, like, docking your pay. You and I both know getting to work on time's important. I don't even need to lecture you about that. There actually just must be something going on, maybe in our relationship, maybe something going on at home I don't even know about. But I'm on your team. Let's actually figure this out so that we can get to a place where coming in on time becomes more possible again, I just don't know. Someone watching that CEO being like they're raising a generation of snowflakes. It's just not happening. Except kids, unlike sports players and employees, they don't know what they're worthy of, and so they are not protesting. Saying, this way of treating me is bullshit. If you want to get the best out of me, don't punish me. Talk to me like a human being. Figure out what's really going on, and then let's make a game plan. And I feel like employees and sports players have had the appropriate revolution. And I think if we think about it that way, we're not as scared of connecting to our kid and understanding because we've watched actually, in other domains that already happen.
- [39:51]
Chrissy Teigen
What does it mean if that kind of talk Would terrify me personally. If my boss were to come in and be like, hey, you seem a little off this week or this, I would be destroyed. I think I'd have to quit. It would kill me.
- [40:04]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
What would you rather hear?
- [40:06]
Chrissy Teigen
I don't know. Even thinking about a coach being like, hey, your layups have been a little bit bad. Let's come in on the weekends. I would implode.
- [40:15]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
So I actually think. And maybe you're like, becky, you're sounding like a broken record. But I actually think the idea that just a few principles guide our approach is very useful because you don't have to learn a million things. What that tells me, if that would implode? We're saying someone reflecting back to me something I'm not doing well would make me, like, implode and, like, eviscerate. What that tells me is, okay, I wonder if feeling implosive explosive now is just activating something powerful early on. Early on, did I have someone who is able to both reflect? This thing you did isn't good. And I, at the same time, am looking at you like you are a good, lovable, worthy person.
- [40:57]
Chrissy Teigen
No.
- [40:58]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Or growing up where those two things collapsed, I had to do everything perfectly to feel worthy, to feel like me, to feel like a valuable person in my family. Choice B, a choice B, good. So what that tells me then, is in adulthood, and you know this, like, your whole being is about this, which is amazing. And how you model this is so one of the things then that's gonna be not just in an unlock with my kids. Cause sometimes I'm like, yeah, that's gonna be good for our kids. But, like, no shade to them. It's just gonna be good for me. In every other area of my life is this idea that if a boss ever said that to me, my job is to go in a closet while I'm spiraling and saying, chrissy, one second I am a good employee who has been late, and then you're gonna watch those two things up. No, I'm horrible, and I can't even go back. And they think, whoa, no, I am a good person who is going through something hard. I am a good person having a hard time. And as soon as you can separate good identity from not so good behavior, the spiral doesn't happen. And then you can even learn from that thing instead of run away from.
- [42:04]
Chrissy Teigen
It really is near impossible to hear you talk and not reflect it back to you as an adult, like, or to me as an adult.
- [42:11]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
I'm glad.
- [42:12]
Chrissy Teigen
And I think that's what's so amazing. You really don't have to even be a parent. You can understand children and then be able to understand you as a child. And that is what is so captivating and so amazing about the book, is it just touches everybody.
- [42:26]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
I was having dinner and someone came up to me. She was like 20, drunk with her college friends. She was like, Dr. Becky and her friends. Who is this? And I think no one knows how to label me exactly. She goes, she's this child psychologist and her friends are like, why?
- [42:40]
Chrissy Teigen
You're an adult.
- [42:41]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
You don't have kids. And she gets basically dead sober and looks at her friend and just goes, friend goes, if you're not reparenting yourself now, you're missing out on critical years of your life. And I was like, that's what good inside is.
- [42:55]
Chrissy Teigen
Reparenting revolution.
- [42:57]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
That is the ultimate gift. While we parent. That's why parenting is so hard. You have to re parent yourself and parent your kids. That's a lot all at once.
- [43:05]
Chrissy Teigen
I feel bad about it a lot because I didn't grow up in a house of physical abuse or poverty or food scarcity. I had things happen to me as a child. But it's hard for me to blame my parents for anything, especially like, with how much I've been through. I'm incredibly, like, empathetic to them and understanding and sympathetic through everything that they've personally had to go through. Like, my mom lived in a village in Thailand. She was meant to marry my sister's dad and she ended up running away and working in Bangkok, met my dad and just ran away with him, basically. And then they had me. The things that my mother has been through has really wanted me to give a lot of grace to parents. And so it's hard for me to even. I often wonder, like, are they gonna listen to this and think they were bad parents? Because I know that nothing would devastate me more than knowing that in whatever 15 years my kids are laying on a couch talking about how bad I was.
- [44:14]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
But I think this is such a good point because we have this obsession. I don't know if it's just Americans with blame and fault. Okay, so is it their fault? If it's not their fault, it's my fault. Okay? We had this situation. I was like, my 13 year old said literally the most profound thing. And I'm gonna relate it back to this, where we were backing up our car from a garage and my husband, I think, thought my son had closed the side door and my son didn't know my husband was about to back out side door something. Okay. And there's just a reaction like, what's going on? And my son goes, it's not my fault. And my husband goes, so it's my fault. And then my son said, sometimes bad things happen and it's nobody's fault.
- [44:52]
Chrissy Teigen
Wow.
- [44:53]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
And I was like, you are a philosopher. But he was. And I actually think, could two things be equally true for you and for everybody to say my parents were truly doing the best they could with the resources they had and I might not have gotten everything I needed. One does not have to be more true than the other. One does not have to negate the other. I wish for my kids to be on the couch one day and to be able to self confidently say, here's something I think I need now that I didn't get growing up. I really do. I think that's the best it gets in adulthood. I'm a pawn in that game. It doesn't mean it was my fault. But I think so much of adulthood is saying, here's what I didn't get growing up. That doesn't have to be anyone's fault.
- [45:50]
Chrissy Teigen
Don't you wish they would have said something while it was happening so you could have fixed it or been better at it?
- [45:55]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Do you know what? I don't. I really don't. I don't wish that for them. I do not wish them a perfect childhood. Then that would mean they go into adulthood wishing for not wishing, expecting a perfect adulthood. A perfect childhood means my mom always got it right. She knew everything I needed. The model of a relationship I have with my kid is going to be the model of a relationship they take into adulthood. It's even usually the model they're attracted to naturally. So do I want them looking around in the dating world being like, where is that adult who's perfectly attuned to my needs, who gets it right all the time? First of all, I don't know if marriage is like that. I don't. They'll be looking for a very long time. I would like them to go in saying, I'm looking for an adult who more often than not is attuned to my needs. And when they're not, and when they lose, it takes responsibility and comes back to repair. I also just wouldn't want to deprive them of what it means. Age 16, 18, 22. I think so much of mature adulthood is looking back on your childhood being like, wait, that's not the world. That was just my world growing up. That's not how everyone does things. And is that the way I want to do things? What parts of my childhood do I want to take with me? And what is something I want to do differently? I think that's what it means to be human as an adult, and we can only set our kids up for that. Ironically, going back to what you said is not if we get it right all the time, but if we're someone who's open minded to the moments we get it wrong. So I hope to be the type of parent to my adult kids when they're like, you kind of messed this up. I hope my response is like, first of all, I'm just glad you're telling me this. Tell me more. Just to be open to that. And if I can hold, I'm a good mom who didn't get it right all the time, then I think that that's kind of at the core of what we're talking about.
- [48:11]
Chrissy Teigen
And now for the toolkit. Each episode, our guests distill their expertise into practical and actionable insights. Today, Dr. Becky shares exercises to help us help our children be good inside.
- [48:24]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Kristi. So I want to walk through something I call avp, which is acknowledge, validate, permit. And to me, what I hear from parents all the time is exactly what we've been talking about. Okay, I'm going to teach my kids the skills to actually learn how to manage their feelings. But who is teaching me the skills to teach them the skills? And I think this is one of these things that you can practice totally unrelated to your kid, and then there's times that you can actually more explicitly give it to them. Acknowledge, validate, permit. I'll go through each step. Okay, first, acknowledge that is just the process of recognizing. And I often just literally say hi to something happening inside me. So it could be. I am noticing that I don't like how my makeup looks today. I am noticing that when I got my coffee that I asked for, they made it totally wrong. And I feel uncomfortable about that. Saying hi could be high racing heart. That's a way of doing it. High desire to stay in bed. Right now, it's literally just noticing something that lives inside of you, acknowledging it. Then validation is the second point, which is actually the process of tallying your feelings in your body that they make sense. That phrase makes sense. I feel like our feelings crave that phrase. I almost feel like sometimes a feeling gets accepted by logic when we use that word. And, like, our body is harmonious. So it might be. Again, I'll Go through those two steps. I'm looking in the mirror. And you mentioned this earlier. I'm not happy with how this person did my makeup. And I'm acknowledging that my heart is racing at even the thought of saying I'm not happy with how it looks. Two. That makes sense. I do know I'm working on speaking up for myself, even at the thought of someone else being upset. And so it makes sense that I'd feel nervous about it. And then P is permit, which is just the process of saying to yourself that you're allowed to be feeling exactly how you're feeling. I give myself permission to feel nervous. Totally different situation. So another example is, like, I just yelled at my kids. Avp. I'm like, in the. I don't know, for me, I'm, like, probably sitting in, like, my bathroom, like, curled up in a ball, telling myself I'm a horrible person. And if I just remember those three words, acknowledge, it might be anything. I'm crying right now. I'm feeling really upset. I feel like a horrible parent. Validate. Makes sense. Just that makes sense. That was a hard situation. A lot of feelings come up for me. Permit. I am giving myself permission to be feeling upset about what just happened. Avp. In my mind, it actually helps us regulate a really big percentage of whatever is happening for us because we name it as real. By acknowledging it, we tell it it makes sense, which helps our body gain further acceptance. And then we allow it to just live in our body by giving ourselves permission. A very similar thing you can do with your kid. They're upset that they weren't invited to a birthday party. Ugh, that stinks. That makes sense. You're upset. I'd be upset, too. It's okay to be upset about anything and definitely about not being invited to a party. And we've done the whole arc with them.
- [51:49]
Chrissy Teigen
Dr. Becky, thank you so much for being here, you angel of parenting. I know so many people, whether or not they have children, are really going to hear so many of the things you've said today, and I know that I'm a better person because of it. So thank you.
- [52:04]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Thank you. This was so fantastic. I loved every moment.
- [52:15]
Chrissy Teigen
Doctor Becky, thank you so much for joining me today on Self Conscious. Good Inside by Dr. Becky Kennedy is available on Audible. Until then, tune in, turn on, and feel better. This is Chrissy Teigen, and you've been listening to Self Conscious and Audible original podcast. This has been an Audible original produced by Audible and Huntley Productions, hosted by Chrissy Teigen, written and Directed by Jimmy Jelinek Executive Producers Jimmy Jelinek Chrissy Teigen Executive Producer for Audible Stacy Creamer Head of Creative Development at Audible Kate Navin Chief Content Officer Rachel Giazza Copyright 2024 by Audible Originals, LLC Sound Recording Copyright 2024 by Audible Originals LL.