Moving Forward

Summary

Senseless with Erika Mahoney: Episode Summary - "Moving Forward"

Release Date: August 12, 2025
Host: Erika Mahoney, LLC
Podcast Description:
“Senseless” relives accounts of gun violence and the ensuing trauma, providing a space for healing and understanding.

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1. Reclaiming the Public Space: King Soopers as a Community Cornerstone

Timestamp: [02:56] – [05:03]

Erika Mahoney opens the episode by reflecting on the transformation of King Soopers grocery store in Boulder, Colorado. Once a vibrant community hub where families like Erika's shopped weekly, the store became the tragic scene of a mass shooting on March 22, 2021, claiming the lives of Erika’s father and nine others.

Pam Davis, Boulder's Assistant City Manager, shares a poignant poem titled "Our Public Square," highlighting the store's role as a communal space.

Pam Davis: "The public square is a grocery store. That's a hard thing to admit." [04:01]

Despite the tragedy, the community worked together to reopen the store, symbolizing resilience and unity. A memorial garden with ten trees was planted at the parking lot's northwest corner, each tree representing one of the victims.

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2. Preserving Memories: The Boulder Museum's Role in Healing

Timestamp: [05:03] – [12:21]

Erika visits the Boulder Museum's collections facility, meeting Elizabeth Nosek, the curator of collections and exhibits. Elizabeth discusses the importance of preserving items from the makeshift memorial that sprung up immediately after the shooting. Over 2,000 artifacts, including painted rocks, silk flowers, and personalized messages, have been archived to honor the victims and support the community's healing process.

Elizabeth emphasizes the emotional weight of these objects:

Elizabeth Nosek: "The Boulder community felt this to the depths of their hearts, and it showed, and it still tugs at your heartstrings." [07:30]

She also highlights the ongoing struggle for meaningful policy changes, expressing hope for common-sense gun laws while acknowledging the political challenges ahead.

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3. Legislative Advocacy: Congressman Joe Neguse on Gun Reform

Timestamp: [15:41] – [20:37]

Erika interviews Congressman Joe Neguse, whose district includes Boulder. Neguse shares his personal connection to Erika’s family, recounting how he supported them immediately after the shooting and has remained an advocate for stricter gun laws. He speaks passionately about the need for policy changes to prevent future tragedies.

Congressman Joe Neguse: "Should an individual be able to obtain a firearm if their background check has not yet been completed? I think the answer that most Americans would give you is no." [18:28]

Despite significant public support, Neguse expresses frustration over the slow progress in federal legislation, underscoring the emotional toll on families and communities affected by gun violence.

Neguse: "I believe fundamentally Americans are good people. Most people want to be able to send their kids to a good school, want to be able to maintain a quality of life..." [19:24]

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4. Music as Healing: Allie and AJ Mishaka's Journey After Surviving a Mass Shooting

Timestamp: [21:11] – [26:44]

The episode features Sister-musicians Allie and AJ Mishaka, who survived a mass shooting in Sacramento on April 3, 2022. Their experience on tour, where their bus was hit and six lives were lost, profoundly impacted their music and advocacy work.

In their song "Sirens," they channel their trauma and resilience:

Allie Mishaka: "It was sirens over the body. It wasn't even, I can't say, more than 10ft away. It was that close." [22:28]

They emphasize the importance of raising awareness and supporting nonprofits like March 4, aiming to end mass shootings. Their activism extends beyond music, as they engage with fans and communities to foster healing and change.

Allie Mishaka: "For Ally and I, it was like, okay. We have made a promise to ourselves as a band and as sisters that it is going to be our lifelong journey..." [24:26]

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5. A Circle of Healing: Erika Meets Jen Douglas, a Survivor Connected to Her Father's Legacy

Timestamp: [28:20] – [42:00]

In a deeply moving segment, Erika meets Jen Douglas, a University of Colorado Boulder student who was present at the King Soopers shooting. Jen witnessed Erika’s father, Kevin Mahoney, running for his life and recognizes him as the man in the parking lot during the tragedy.

Jen shares her harrowing experience and the profound impact Kevin had on her life:

Jen Douglas: "Kevin Mahoney saved my life." [34:10]

Erika and Jen exchange heartfelt sentiments, Bridging their shared pain and finding solace in their connection. Jen's gratitude towards Kevin helps Erika in her healing journey, providing closure and a sense of purpose.

Erika reflects on the intertwined paths of grief and healing:

Erika Mahoney: "Survivor's guilt. But when we met, she was finally able to release some of it, because I told her this. My dad would have wanted to save you..." [36:03]

The encounter culminates in a powerful moment of gratitude and remembrance, highlighting the enduring legacies of those lost and the healing power of human connection.

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6. Embracing Resilience: Final Reflections and Moving Forward

Timestamp: [41:08] – [45:31]

As the episode concludes, Erika shares her personal growth and the support from her family. She honors her late father’s memory and the collective strength of her community. The transformation from "Senseless" to "Resilience" underscores the journey from tragedy to healing.

Erika Mahoney: "I made this podcast for you, Dad, and for me and for all the other people who needed a safe place to land." [39:01]

Erika extends gratitude to her team, collaborators, and supporters, emphasizing the communal effort in overcoming loss and fostering a safer, more compassionate world.

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Key Takeaways

• Community Healing: The reopening of King Soopers symbolizes the Boulder community's resilience and shared commitment to reclaiming their public spaces.

• Preservation of Memory: The Boulder Museum's archiving of memorial artifacts serves as a testament to collective grief and the importance of remembering those lost.

• Advocacy for Change: Congressman Joe Neguse's efforts reflect the ongoing struggle for meaningful gun legislation amidst political challenges.

• Healing Through Music: Allie and AJ Mishaka illustrate how creative expression can be a powerful tool for healing and activism.

• Personal Connections: The encounter between Erika and Jen Douglas highlights the profound, often unexpected ways in which survivors and families can support each other's healing journeys.

• Resilience Over Senselessness: Transitioning the podcast's focus to "Resilience" encapsulates the essence of moving forward while honoring the past.

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Notable Quotes

• Pam Davis: "The public square is a grocery store. That's a hard thing to admit." [04:01]

• Elizabeth Nosek: "The Boulder community felt this to the depths of their hearts, and it showed, and it still tugs at your heartstrings." [07:30]

• Congressman Joe Neguse: "Should an individual be able to obtain a firearm if their background check has not yet been completed? I think the answer that most Americans would give you is no." [18:28]

• Allie Mishaka: "For Ally and I, it was like, okay. We have made a promise to ourselves as a band and as sisters that it is going to be our lifelong journey..." [24:26]

• Jen Douglas: "Kevin Mahoney saved my life." [34:10]

• Erika Mahoney: "I made this podcast for you, Dad, and for me and for all the other people who needed a safe place to land." [39:01]

---

Conclusion

"Moving Forward" is a poignant exploration of loss, community resilience, and the relentless pursuit of healing and change in the aftermath of senseless gun violence. Through personal narratives, community stories, and advocacy, Erika Mahoney crafts a narrative of hope and determination, urging listeners to honor the past while striving for a safer future.

Transcript

[Erica Mahoney]

Senseless is sponsored in part by Campus Guardian Angel. Campus Guardian angel is a cutting edge school safety service that uses drone technology to confront an active shooter and help save lives. The system places drones directly inside schools, so they're already on site and ready to respond quickly. Piloted remotely by some of the world's top drone racers, they're activated in just five seconds. Within 15 seconds, they can confront the shooter and the goal? To stop that shooter within one minute. The drones are equipped with sirens, flashing lights, and pepper spray to disorient and distract the perpetrator. Campus Guardian angel is designed to support school security and law enforcement by buying the critical time they need to act. Because in an active shooter situation, every second matters. And sadly, I know that firsthand. In the mass shooting that killed my dad, three people were killed in 33 seconds and the first eight victims were gone in about 68 seconds. I saw Campus Guardian angel during a demo here in Colorado and I was struck by the idea of using technology to give schools an extra layer of protection. Like any new innovation, there are still questions about access, cost, and making sure schools in every kind of community could benefit. But the concept of buying even just a few more seconds is powerful to me. It's unfair to put the responsibility of responding to this American tragedy on the shoulders of kids and teachers. So let's try everything we can to save lives until policy changes. To learn more about this innovative new technology, visit www.campusguardianangel.com Lemonada this podcast relives an account of gun violence and the trauma that follows. Please take care when listening. There was a time when the neighborhood grocery store in my hometown of Boulder, Colorado was a happy place. King Soopers was the place my parents grocery shopped every week, where as a child I'd run barefoot down the aisles on hot summer days, where we'd always bump into someone we knew. I can't remember the last time I was inside the store. I haven't been back since the day My dad and nine others were murdered there in a mass shooting on March 22, 2021. That was the day when everything changed for my family and in our community, where the Boulder bubble burst and where suddenly our neighborhood grocery store became a sad place. And yet it was, and still is, a cornerstone of this community. Or as Pam Davis puts it, our public square. She's Boulder's assistant city manager, and she wrote this poem after the shooting. The public square is a grocery store. That's a hard thing to admit. It put words to what many of us feel as we Figure out how to reclaim this space and make it a happy place once again.

[Alicia Mann]

The thing about public squares, though, and the thing about grocery stores, is that.

[Erica Mahoney]

Even when it was broken, even when.

[Alicia Mann]

It was not open, it still belonged to everyone.

[Erica Mahoney]

I kept hearing that truth spoken in.

[Alicia Mann]

Every place I had been, from every.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

Face that I had seen, was someone.

[Alicia Mann]

Saying, that's my grocery store.

[Erica Mahoney]

And because it belonged to all of.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

Us, from the big to the small.

[Alicia Mann]

Of us, no one could take it all from us. The fences came down and windows were.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

Repaired, and once again, we returned to the public square.

[Alicia Mann]

Four years have gone by now since.

[Erica Mahoney]

That Monday in march, and those 10.

[Alicia Mann]

Good souls have never left our hearts.

[Erica Mahoney]

Our beloved public square is open again.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

But we never stop, never stop missing our friends.

[Alicia Mann]

Trelona, Suzanne, Denny, Terry, Kevin, Lynn, Ricky.

[Erica Mahoney]

Eric, Jody, and Nevin.

[Alicia Mann]

They were all so unique and so.

[Erica Mahoney]

Special to us, Each a one of.

[Alicia Mann]

A kind, irreplaceable loss.

[Erica Mahoney]

We take care of our families. When the store reopened, a grove of trees was planted in a new memorial garden at the northwest corner of the parking lot. It has a plaque listing the names of the ten people senselessly killed. On an overcast day, I take my best friend Alicia Mann, to the memorial. She's in town from Portland. Ten trees planted.

[Alicia Mann]

They're growing.

[Erica Mahoney]

Yeah, they look really good.

[Alicia Mann]

They're getting tall. Yeah.

[Erica Mahoney]

I've seen this once before, and they were just tiny, tiny little, little trees. So they are growing. It starts to rain, which feels perfect. Tears falling from up above. I ask Alicia what it's like being here. Intense.

[Alicia Mann]

The name King Soopers, like, symbolizes to me the loss of your dad. And for you, King Soopers is your local grocery store. Just the physicality of being where.

[Erica Mahoney]

Everything happened.

[Alicia Mann]

You can feel it.

[Erica Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Alicia Mann]

In some ways, it's like life goes on.

[Erica Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Alicia Mann]

And in other ways, people are just.

[Erica Mahoney]

Coming in and out.

[Alicia Mann]

Like nothing ever happened.

[Erica Mahoney]

I know, I know, I know. Long before the trees were planted, there was a makeshift memorial. It started to appear in front of the store the very night of the shooting. It grew and bloomed with each passing hour. Signs and stuffed animals, flowers and candles, Handwritten notes with my dad's name on it. When I first visited, just days after the shooting, I took a video of this colorful wall of grief and love. In that moment, I was reminded that even on our darkest days, there's still good and light in the world. Four years later, I got to see some of the artwork and items from the makeshift memorial again. Much of it was actually saved and is forever archived by The Boulder Museum.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

We're at the collections facility for the Museum of Boulder.

[Erica Mahoney]

I meet Elizabeth Nosek at a warehouse on the outskirts of town. She's the curator of collections and exhibits.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

Well, I've always loved museums and I love working with objects because if you listen, objects speak in a way the written word never does. And you can understand history from another perspective.

[Erica Mahoney]

The warehouse is full of historic items from Boulder's past, from the beer kettle that started the home brewing movement to mining tools. And now more than 2,000 items from that makeshift memorial in front of King Soopers.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

The Boulder community felt this to the depths of their hearts, and it showed, and it still tugs at your heartstrings.

[Erica Mahoney]

Elizabeth put together a volunteer corps to help process the items, taking great care so they can be shown to family members, the victims brought out during memorial services or one day turned into an exhibit.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

And one of the things that we had to make sure we did was to make sure we put time in for people to have breaks from dealing with all the objects and all the heartfelt messages.

[Erica Mahoney]

The collection includes painted rocks, silk flowers, and posters with messages. Many of the items are safely tucked into special folders.

[Alicia Mann]

Oh wow, this is one.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

And then here is the acid free tissue paper that is layered between items. Brilliant pink piece of paper that says, RIP beautiful souls with hearts. And then it reads, may your spirits forever live within each of us. May peace, love and healing dwell within everyone so that love and kindness will be our new normal in this world.

[Erica Mahoney]

There are beautiful realistic portraits and colorful children's drawings. I think seeing children's artwork spelling out my dad's name, K E V I N in a child's handwriting that really, it's really touching. I mean, just to know that a child took the time to spell out my dad's name. Even a letter from a 9 year old who visited the memorial.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

I felt sad when I heard that 10 people were killed in this tragic event and angry because this would actually happen in our nation. Sadly, this happens way too often in our country. At my school, we have lockdown drills every three or four months. And my mom didn't have to do this. My dad didn't have to do this. Our country didn't used to be this way. And I wish that our nation could be the way that it was again. I urge you to take action because no child wants to grow up in a country like this.

[Erica Mahoney]

Next, Elizabeth shows me her favorite item, a little pink shopping cart. It has a miniature Starbucks coffee in the cup holder and the cart is filled with plastic Fruit and paper mache eggs.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

I think it is the most representative object of what happened.

[Erica Mahoney]

I can't help but think of my dad since he was killed just after returning his shopping cart. Finally, she shows me something I requested to the 10 crosses, one for each victim. She removes the plastic cover over my dad's.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

It is a cross that was made by hearts of mercy and compassion. They do not charge for these. This is a gift that they give to communities who are going through this. Unfortunately, they seem to have a booming business. But they are a white cross that has a heart and inside a fish monogram, they put the victim's name, but people came through and wrote messages. My volunteers who worked on this project transcribed each of these messages into our database so they will last forever.

[Erica Mahoney]

I think the crosses really stood out at the makeshift memorial. And I took a lot of pictures, you know, in the days after of this cross and to see it here three and a half years later, it's still hard. It was so hard when I saw my dad's name across that makeshift memorial because I just wanted to scream out, that's my dad. And fall to my knees and cry. But I was, you know, standing beside community members and I just. I didn't want the attention in that way. I kind of just wanted to be a community member in that moment.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

Well, I'm glad we were able to bring it down for you. And it is something that I want to be able to give you some time with if you need it.

[Erica Mahoney]

She reads the messages out loud and I'm swept back to the day when my husband and I wrote words of love on my dad's cross.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

One of the messages reads, love you so much, dad. Another one reads, you are always with us. Love and hope. Another message. I learned so much from you. Love your friend Brandt. On the left side of the blue heart, message messages read, my dear sweet man, your kindness has changed me forever. Another message says, love to your family. Another message says, heartbroken for Kevin and Ellen. Another message. There are no words.

[Erica Mahoney]

Reading the messages written by the hands of strangers is proof that grief doesn't disappear. It transforms. And in places like this quite quiet museum warehouse, the memory of what we lost is still being held. The objects tell a story of how we remember even when the world moves on.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

I hope we learn from it. I hope that it helps us come together to have some more common sense gun laws. I hesitate to say that because I'm at work right now as we do this interview. And that's my own personal feeling and I should not speak about politics. That's not my job in this interview, but I would like to see a better world. I would like us to learn the hard lessons these things are teaching us.

[Erica Mahoney]

Wouldn't it be beautiful if these mass shootings actually just become part of our history and not part of our future?

[Elizabeth Nosek]

That's my wish. That's my hope. That's my dream. Yes, it would be wonderful.

[Erica Mahoney]

For now, though, it's not part of the past. In fact, it's not unusual for Elizabeth to get calls from other museum curators looking for advice on what artifacts to preserve and how when their community becomes the site of yet another mass shooting. A problem so senseless because it's preventable. I'm Erica Mahoney and this is Senseless. We'll get right back to the show, but first a message from our important sponsor, Quince. As summer winds down, I love refreshing my wardrobe with a few staple pieces for fall. Quince is perfect for those luxe essentials that feel effortless and look polished. Everything with Quince is half the cost of similar brands, and Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices, plus premium fabrics and finishes. Think chic cashmere and cotton sweaters starting at just $40. Washable silk tops and classic denim pants. I'm so excited for the 100% organic cropped cotton polo sweater I just ordered. I can pair it with a skirt or jeans to dress it up or down. I'm also eyeing all the adorable kids clothes for back to school, including colorful and cute backpacks and lunch boxes. Elevate your fall wardrobe essentials with quince. Go to quince.comsenseless for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com senseless to get free shipping and 365 day returns quince.comsenseless senseless is sponsored in part by Campus Guardian Angel. Campus Guardian angel is a cutting edge school safety service that uses drone technology to confront an active shooter and help save lives. The system places drones directly inside schools, so they're already on site and ready to respond quickly. Piloted remotely by some of the world's top drone racers, they're activated in just five seconds. Within 15 seconds, they can confront the shooter and the goal? To stop that shooter within one minute. The drones are equipped with sirens, flashing lights, and pepper spray to disorient and distract the perpetrator. Campus Guardian angel is designed to support school security and law enforcement by buying the critical time they need to act because in an active shooter situation, every second matters. And sadly, I know that firsthand. In the mass shooting that killed my dad, three people were killed in 33 seconds and the first eight victims were gone in about 68 seconds. I saw Campus Guardian angel during a demo here in Colorado and I was struck by the idea of using technology to give schools an extra layer of protection. Like any new innovation, there are still questions about access, cost and making sure schools in every kind of community could benefit from. But the concept of buying even just a few more seconds is powerful to me. It's unfair to put the responsibility of responding to this American tragedy on the shoulders of kids and teachers. So let's try everything we can to save lives until policy changes. To learn more about this innovative new technology, visit www.campusguardianangel.com Are you looking for.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

Ways to make your everyday life happier.

[Alicia Mann]

Healthier, more productive, and more creative?

[Elizabeth Nosek]

I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical sol in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast.

[Allie Mishaka]

My co host and happiness guinea pig.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

Is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood.

[Erica Mahoney]

Join us as we explore ideas and.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

Hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.

[Erica Mahoney]

When I was a kid, my dad traveled a lot for his job in hotel management and development. Before each trip, he'd ask me to help him pack by picking out a handful of ties. I'd run into his closet, sift through the ties on his wooden tie rack, carefully choosing which ones he should wear. It was my way of staying close to him, even when he was far away and when I missed him, I'd picture him in the ties somewhere across the country, thinking of me, too. After he died, my mom gave many of those ties away to my brother and his best friends, to my husband, and eventually she gave one to Congressman Joe Neguse. Negus's district includes Boulder, and he's been there for my family since day one, calling my mom right after the mass shooting. I remember talking to him on the phone, too, scribbling down his cell phone number on a piece of junk mail at our kitchen table. He said if I ever wanted to talk, I could call anytime.

[Congressman Joe Neguse]

In that moment, the most important thing was for you to know that there were people who were mourning with you, who didn't know Kevin, had never met Kevin, but who understood the gravity of what his loss would mean to your family and to our community.

[Erica Mahoney]

Two years later, he invited my mom to President Biden's State of the Union address as his guest. And that's when my mom brought the tie as a gift.

[Congressman Joe Neguse]

And it just was an emotional time. And I'm so glad that she was there, you know, since, I mean, she's testified in the state legislature, she's had a real impact in terms of, I think, convincing lawmakers to look beyond the statistics or the empirical data and to understand that the decisions they're making day to day have real world, profound implications for a lot of families.

[Erica Mahoney]

Negus keeps my dad's tie in his desk drawer as a reminder to do the work, even when it feels like it's going nowhere. Because the truth is, Negus is frustrated. Despite strong public support for stricter gun laws, those views aren't reflected in federal policy. According to the Pew Research Center, a majority of Americans say that it's too easy to legally obtain a gun in this country.

[Congressman Joe Neguse]

Should an individual be able to obtain a firearm if their background check has not yet been completed? I think the answer that most Americans would give you is no. And yet this policy becomes incredibly difficult for us to actually get codified.

[Erica Mahoney]

Negus has two young children, and he and his wife often talk about how heartbreaking it is that their kids have to grow up in a world where safety isn't guaranteed, where simple things like going to the mall to see Santa Claus or a movie come with the real fear that something terrible could happen at any moment.

[Congressman Joe Neguse]

It shouldn't be something we accept, because the moment we do that, it becomes harder and harder to actually change the policies that are necessary to put us on a different course.

[Erica Mahoney]

What hope can you. What hope can you give us? How do we. How do we move forward in this current political climate?

[Congressman Joe Neguse]

I would say this. I would say that I believe fundamentally Americans are good people. Most people want to be able to send their kids to a good school, want to be able to maintain a quality of life that enables them to raise their children with dignity and to be able to tell their children that they're going to be able to pursue their dreams. And I think a lot of that can get lost in the day to day vitriol and the sort of combative nature of our modern politics, which in some respects is reflective of how we interact with each other in society writ large. And yet I just think it all is kind of a smokescreen for, at the end of the day, the reality that most of us care about the same things. I think we should never assume that there's Any problem that's too big for us to solve, or that just because we've been unable to make progress on a problem, that it's unsolvable.

[Erica Mahoney]

Negoose knows policy won't mend what's been broken, but it can stop the bleeding. It can save lives. It can spare future generations from living this kind of pain. Because we live in a country that beats to this tempo. Mass shooting after mass shooting after mass shooting. The pain echoes through schools and supermarkets, movie theaters and office buildings, churches and synagogues. The grief compounds. The anger builds. We're exhausted.

[Alicia Mann]

We're fed up.

[Erica Mahoney]

And yet somehow we keep showing up. Because silence won't save us. But our voices can. Ally and AJ Mishaka, who are sisters and musicians, are using their voices. They sing about this American tragedy in their song Sirens. They wrote it after surviving a mass shooting in Sacramento on April 3, 2022, on the very first night of their Touch of the Beat tour. Sacramento.

[Alicia Mann]

Day one was hard to follow.

[Allie Mishaka]

In Sacramento.

[Alicia Mann]

Long gone. But I haven't let it go. It could have been made. It could have been sirens over my body. It could have been me. Instead, it's sirens over the body.

[Allie Mishaka]

Our tour bus actually got hit that night, as well as the back trailer holding our gear.

[Erica Mahoney]

This is AJ we sheltered in place.

[Allie Mishaka]

On the bus, and I will honestly never forget it. I. I feel like that amount of time felt like it was ours, an eternity.

[Erica Mahoney]

Lying on the floor of their tour bus, Allie screamed for their drummer to call Stephen, her husband, who'd gone to get their luggage from their hotel. Here's Ali.

[Allie Mishaka]

He basically was coming down the elevator and walking outside when he heard the shots. He heard the shots and immediately, you know, saw sirens and, you know, people on the ground. And he rushed over to the bus and put the coat in really fast and came in. But while that was happening, obviously I didn't know where he was.

[Erica Mahoney]

Six people lost their lives that night. People just having a good time downtown. On the weekend, Allie and AJ left Sacramento shaken and forever changed. The aftermath was messy and hard, and they still had two months left on the road. So they set up access to a counselor through a hotline, giving themselves and their crew a lifeline. If anyone needed support, this is Allie.

[Allie Mishaka]

You know, it's hard to feel safe in a movie theater, in a mall, at school, at a venue, at a venue, on a street corner with your back turned, ordering a hamburger. We had an instance where it was, you know, maybe a couple weeks after the shooting had happened, and we were in Kansas at this little burger joint. And my husband was like, I'm really kind of, like, scared to just order this burger on the street.

[Erica Mahoney]

Ali and AJ have made it a priority to talk openly about their feelings and what happened to them on stage. They'll stop their show to speak directly to fans about ways to get involved, such as supporting the nonprofits they've partnered with, like March 4, which is working to end mass shootings.

[Allie Mishaka]

For Ally and I, it was like, okay. We have made a promise to ourselves as a band and as sisters that it is going to be our lifelong journey figuring out how we can talk about this while releasing music. And whether that means putting out a song around it or talking about it on stage, raising money, raising awareness, lobbying. You know, that is really our goal now. It goes way beyond music. So whatever we can do, we're here. And honestly, thank you for having us on to be able to speak about this. We're so sorry for what you've been even imagine, but we are coming at it from different perspectives, both equally as horrific. And I just. I want to thank you for. For having something like this, like Senseless, the podcast, to. To kind of speak about topics like this because it's. It's not spoken about enough, but it's spoken about more, which is great.

[Erica Mahoney]

They've found that sharing their story through lyrics and conversation can be its own kind of healing, because when they open up, others do too.

[Allie Mishaka]

Fans reach out about their experience with gun violence, and, you know, that's just a sad thing to bond over, but. But I don't know. I. I do feel like we are. We are in an environment that is really testing our. Our sense of hope these days when it comes to living in a. In a world where one day this is not just something that you see on the news weekly.

[Erica Mahoney]

The way they see it, this American tragedy shouldn't be political.

[Allie Mishaka]

It shouldn't be. It should just be really a human rights issue more than anything that, you know, it's human safety. It's the fact that we're not trying to take guns away from citizens. We're trying to protect people from this kind of mass murder because of AR15s and assault weapons. The assault weapons ban should be back in place. You know, people should be more educated on safely storing their weapons. People should be more proactive about seeing signs of someone that might be struggling with their mental health and what those signs could end up leading to when it comes to mass violence. Instead, it.

[Alicia Mann]

Sirens over the body.

[Erica Mahoney]

Another day in America we wait around for the change that never comes another day in America. They dream of a time when another day in a America won't mean waking up to a headline about more lives lost to senseless gun violence.

[Allie Mishaka]

San Francisco.

[Erica Mahoney]

I'm Erica Mahoney, and this is Senseless. Tired of the same old political shouting.

[Alicia Mann]

Matches and talking points? Looking for thoughtful conversations that go beyond the headlines and help you understand issues that matter?

[Erica Mahoney]

I'm Sarah.

[Alicia Mann]

And I'm Beth.

[Erica Mahoney]

Together we host Pantsuit Politics, a podcast where we bring grace, nuance and perspective to the news. Because democracy deserves more than hot takes.

[Alicia Mann]

Join us as we approach politics and current events with curiosity, empathy, and a commitment to understanding the bigger picture.

[Erica Mahoney]

If you want to stay informed without the anxiety, we're the show for you.

[Alicia Mann]

New episodes drop on Tuesdays and Fridays. Subscribe to Pantsuit Politics wherever you get your podcasts.

[Erica Mahoney]

Four years after the mass shooting, after the trial proceedings had wrapped up, the Boulder Strong Resource center closed its doors. But before it did, there was a farewell gathering for this incredible space, a refuge for anyone affected by the mass shooting. Julie Ratinoff, the program manager, says saying goodbye was bittersweet. It's an ending which is always mixed. So that brings so much joy that people are healing and moving forward. But also we know healing will never end. It's an ongoing journey, but it's been such an honor to be here this whole time with all of the folks who've come in and be part of their healing journey. I asked Julie if there's someone who walked through these doors that she'll carry forward with her. She told me about a University of Colorado Boulder student who came in almost every day. When I asked how the shooting impacted her, she shared this. Yeah, she was there in the parking lot during the shooting. Wow.

[Alicia Mann]

Okay. Wow. That's.

[Erica Mahoney]

Yeah. So let me just. I was just thinking about this woman, Jenny Jacobson. I froze, lost track of my questions. Now I needed to know even more because that's where my dad was, too. And I'd never heard about this person. Then Julie says something I never saw coming, something that leaves me breathless. I think she feels like your dad saved her, too.

[Elizabeth Nosek]

So.

[Erica Mahoney]

Time stops. My body goes still because somewhere deep down, I think I'd always hoped there was a story like this, that my dad, in his final moments, might have helped someone else live. Her name is Jen Douglas, and she's 25. We meet up on the CU Boulder campus beneath a tree on a big grassy lawn. The sun is just beginning to break through the clouds. Construction crews are busy behind the nearby buildings. We're actually Sitting in front of Jen's freshman year dorm. That first year, she studied music while also working at a preschool.

[Alicia Mann]

And I would come back to my roommate, and I would whine and complain about how much I missed the kids. And finally she took me by the shoulders, and she's like, jen, become a teacher, and the rest is history, as they say.

[Erica Mahoney]

She transferred to CU's School of Education, which she loved. Jen was a junior in the spring of 2021, just when things were slowly starting to reopen amid the pandemic, as the vaccine rolled out. That's what brought her to king Soopers on March 22 to get her first shot. After she was done at the pharmacy, it was time to go to work at the preschool. She called an Uber and waited in the parking lot.

[Alicia Mann]

And that was when I heard the first couple gunshots. And there was me and another employee, and she was out there on her break. And we kind of looked at each other with kind of questioning looks, like, what is this? Because we first thought it was like someone maybe dropped sheet metal or there was construction, and then there was another one. And that's when we kind of huddled close to each other. And that's actually where your dad comes in.

[Erica Mahoney]

Jen says she saw my dad running, running hard to live.

[Alicia Mann]

And that's when we knew in that instant this was a mass shooting. We unfortunately witnessed him going down, and it wasn't even, I can't say, more than 10ft away. It was that close.

[Erica Mahoney]

Jen says they were so lucky the shooter didn't turn around and see them.

[Alicia Mann]

Because if he had turned around, he would have seen us. There would have been nowhere for us to go.

[Erica Mahoney]

When the shooter ran into the store, Jen and the employee ran to the nearby ice cream parlor.

[Alicia Mann]

The biggest feeling was at that time, terror. Because it's the thought of, what if he turns around? What if we're next? But also there's this kind of numbing sensation of disbelief of, did I just see that? Did that just happen, like, right in front of me?

[Erica Mahoney]

Days later, Jen saw my dad's picture on the news.

[Alicia Mann]

And then it was confirmed to me, oh, my gosh, he was the one who was in the parking lot then. And I just started immediately thinking about your family. Like, oh, my gosh, I can't imagine how they're feeling. And, you know, I'm sure, you know, it's just a whole whirlwind of just shock.

[Erica Mahoney]

Yeah, definitely. You know, I keep on thinking about how weird it is that we're only just now meeting, like, four years I mean, I didn't even know you existed.

[Alicia Mann]

Yeah, I know. I had actually written a letter to your family kind of in the aftermath of all this to try and get my feelings in order. And I think part of me was scared to send it because I didn't know if it was something that you would want to hear. The story of me witnessing your dad die. I had kind of sat on this letter for a really long time, just thinking, like, should I send it? Should I not? Is it time? Do they want to hear.

[Erica Mahoney]

Hear it?

[Alicia Mann]

So I. I. The fact that we are meeting four years later is part of me. I'm like, oh, my gosh, why didn't I do this sooner? But another part of me is also saying, I think this is also the right time for us to meet.

[Erica Mahoney]

I feel that, too. I feel like this is the right time because I've made so much progress in my healing, and it sounds like you have, too. And. And we're looking at the letter, right? You brought it in the garage.

[Alicia Mann]

Wow.

[Erica Mahoney]

It's such pretty stationary.

[Alicia Mann]

Thank you. That is the artist in me trying to look nice.

[Erica Mahoney]

Do you want to read it? I'm really excited to hear it.

[Alicia Mann]

Yes.

[Erica Mahoney]

Okay.

[Alicia Mann]

All right. To the family of Kevin Mahoney. I would first like to say that I am sorry for your loss. I remember seeing a photo of Kevin Mahoney on the news and realizing that he was the man I had seen in the parking lot. The man who couldn't be more than 10ft away from me. I'd never known what gunshot sounded like, and it wasn't until I saw and heard Kevin Mahoney running did the situation really dawn on me. If I hadn't seen him, I wouldn't have hidden. I would have stood out in the open. I could have been shot. It's not fair. He was taken from me. You. It's tragic, horrible, and brings unimaginable suffering. I'm not here to say I'm grateful. Kevin Mahoney was there. No one deserves to be part of something like that. I wanted to let you know that Kevin Mahoney is a hero in my eyes. That day, whether he knew it or not, Kevin Mahoney saved my life. My gosh.

[Erica Mahoney]

Oh.

[Alicia Mann]

So beautiful. Thank you. Wow.

[Erica Mahoney]

For a long time, Jen carried the weight of survivor's guilt. But when we met, she was finally able to release some of it, because I told her this. My dad would have wanted to save you, a young person with so much love life still ahead. But here's the thing. Jen helped me heal too. Because hearing her call my dad her hero felt like the most unexpected, most healing, full circle moment I could have ever asked for. A gift. An ending I never planned. Because the day after the shooting, I posted this on Twitter. I am heartbroken to announce that my dad, my hero, Kevin Mahoney, was killed in the King Sooper shooting. After the shooting, Jen had to take a gap year for her mental health. That's when she discovered the Boulder Strong Resource center, which helped her get back on track and finish her degree. Today, Jen is a third grade teacher.

[Alicia Mann]

And I just finished my first year of teaching. But when I was in high school, we had a day where there was an active threat towards the school, and no one knew if it was true or not. But one of the teachers, he looked us all in the eye and said, no matter what, I will do everything in my power to keep keep you safe. And I just kept thinking about that. Through my healing journey and being a teacher, could I say that? Could I be someone who's willing to put myself in danger to help another person? And I actually think I found my answer. It was after I had spoken to you the first time, when you had said your dad would have wanted to save people. And that just brought that closure to me of, I can do that. And so when our next lockdown drill came to our kids, I had told them, I will do everything in my power to keep you safe. And I just think, even though he. He didn't know me, I think your dad is still looking after me, too.

[Erica Mahoney]

Oh, my gosh.

[Alicia Mann]

Yes.

[Erica Mahoney]

I feel him right now. Actually feel like he's here with us.

[Alicia Mann]

Always wanted to say thank you to him. So if you feel him, then I'm just gonna say in this moment, thank you. Because truly, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for him.

[Erica Mahoney]

It's been so amazing and so healing for me, too. I feel so light.

[Alicia Mann]

I don't know. I feel good.

[Erica Mahoney]

I'm so happy. I know. I know. Thank you, dad. Thank you for being the most incredible father, for making my life an adventure that was savored and sweet. I miss you deeply, but I carry you wherever I go. And I know you're not far because you live on, not only through me, but through my children, your precious grandchildren.

[Alicia Mann]

I love you, Grandpa Mooney. You're always in my heart.

[Erica Mahoney]

I made this podcast for you, Dada, and for me and for all the other people who needed a safe place to land. And I never say this, but I'm proud of this project, and I'm proud of myself and our family that very first day when you were gone. But we didn't know it yet. Mom said, if dad is gone, we'll figure out how to carry on, because that's what dad would want us to do. And it's true. And even though we didn't know quite yet how to carry on, we figured it out one step at a time, and we're okay. My brother Drew's a dad now, himself and a husband and a doctor. And he's also kind of wise.

[Alicia Mann]

You know what? I think I feel more grateful to be alive and appreciative than I was before. And I feel more in charge of my own life, and I feel more capable than before. And so, yeah, loss doesn't have to define you, but one thing that you. You do have to give time enough time. And so it's. You know, time is a great healer. And time doesn't change the past, but time makes it, like, a little bit less painful. So you. Not the. Not that I think about dad any less. It's that it carries less of, like, that, like gut punch each time that he crosses your mind.

[Erica Mahoney]

And mom, she's okay, too. And she's not only dreaming, but fighting for a better world.

[Alicia Mann]

I want a peaceful world without violence. And I know that's a big ask, but that's what I want.

[Erica Mahoney]

I want people to feel happy and.

[Alicia Mann]

Safe and looking forward to the future. And we're going through a lot of change right now, so I really can't see, say, how it's going to be.

[Erica Mahoney]

But that's what I want.

[Alicia Mann]

Peace, happiness, love, and positivity. And care for this planet and each other. Absolutely. And care for one another.

[Erica Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Alicia Mann]

I love you. Love you, honey.

[Erica Mahoney]

It hasn't always been easy pouring my heart and soul into this project, but, Dad, I felt you every step of the way, hugging me when I was overwhelmed, guiding me when I was lost, and cheering me on with each breakthrough. And I know you'll be there for me moving forward, because this isn't the end of the story. It's only just the beginning. With a grateful heart, I say this to you, the listeners. I'm proud of you, too. I see you, and you've got this. I'm Erica Mahoney, and this is Senseless. But in this final episode, I'm changing the tagline. I'm Erica Mahoney, and this is Resilience. Senseless is written and reported by me, Erica Mahoney. I'm your host and executive producer, Christa Almanzan. Is our senior producer and executive editor. Original music, sound design and mastering by Hannis Brown, audio editing and sound mixing by Jeremiah Edding. Big love to my incredible team that I just listed who went above and beyond in making the show. I love them all. Krista, for showing up just when I needed you. For how much I enjoyed all those minutes together editing over zoom. You're such a huge part of my life, Jeremiah, for being a rock, a sensitive rock, and someone I just trust wholeheartedly. Hannis, a light, a gift. I can't imagine this project without your music and heart. Your expertise flowed beyond your talent and to my mom. I'm forever grateful to you for holding Drew and me up through the unthinkable and supporting this project. I couldn't have done it without you. Thank you to Allie and AJ for allowing us to include your powerful song Sirens in this finale. It was written by Ally Mishaka, AJ Mishaka, and James McAllister, produced by Jonathan Wilson, engineering by Jonathan Wilson and Michael Harris. The track features guitar by Jonathan Wilson and drums by James McAllister, bass and strings by Gabe Knoll, violin by Gabe Witcher and keys by Joe Kennedy. This podcast was made possible through support from Community Foundation Boulder county and the Boulder County Arts Alliance. It was recorded at Coop Studios in Boulder, Colorado. Huge shout out to all three amazing places. Finally, thank you to the powerful team at Lemonada Media, Stephanie and Jess. You saw something in me and I'll never forget it. I'm forever grateful. And if you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time. Because guess what? You can listen completely ad free and you'll get all the premium episodes of Senseless. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out. And coming up in the eighth and final premium episode, how do we carry forward the people we've lost? Messages about lost legacy living and love how legacy lives on in the stories, the laughter, and the lessons. It's a tribute. It's a conversation across time. And it's the heartbeat of what this podcast has always been about. Love. Listen now with Lemonada Premium. I'm Erica Mahoney and this is Senseless.

[Alicia Mann]

SA.