Searching for Meaning

Summary

Podcast Summary: Senseless with Erika Mahoney – Episode: "Searching for Meaning"

Introduction

In the poignant episode titled "Searching for Meaning," Erika Mahoney delves deep into her personal journey of grief and healing following the tragic loss of her father in a mass shooting in Boulder. This episode offers listeners an intimate look into Erika's coping mechanisms, including her interactions with a psychic medium and her participation in a grief retreat. Through heartfelt conversations and reflective narratives, Erika explores the complexities of grief, the quest for understanding, and the pursuit of solace amidst unimaginable loss.

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Erika's Personal Grief Journey

The episode opens with Erika reminiscing about her childhood and the comforting presence of her mother, who instilled in her a belief in life beyond death. This spiritual foundation becomes a cornerstone of Erika's coping strategy after her father's death.

Erika's Mom [02:06]: "I know that life goes on after death. And because I know that, I know Dad's okay, what we call in the afterlife. And that gives me a lot of comfort. And that's just how I feel. And that keeps me going."

Erika shares her struggle with acceptance, highlighting the abruptness of her father's passing and the absence of closure.

Erika Mahoney [05:19]: "After my dad died so unexpectedly and so abruptly in a horrific mass shooting, acceptance became a big part of moving forward. I had to learn how to accept the way he went and accept we didn't get to say goodbye."

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Connection with Medium Denise Warfield

In her quest for meaning, Erika turns to Denise Warfield, a retired psychic medium, seeking to connect with her late father and gain insights into his afterlife.

Denise Warfield [07:02]: "From that moment on, I began to step into my soul's purpose of being a psychic medium. Here in this time on this planet in the United States and been doing readings for over 30 years now..."

Denise's approach is both comforting and methodical, assuring Erika of her father's presence and offering specific guidance on coping with grief.

Denise Warfield [10:06]: "He knows that he's showing that you're always going to have a scar, and only when you rub the scar that it causes pain. So if you... create a pattern of receiving that pain that turns it into a rhythm instead of a scratching."

Erika finds solace in Denise's advice, particularly in integrating music—a shared passion with her father—into her healing process.

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Grief Retreat Experience

Seeking deeper healing, Erika embarks on a four-day grief retreat, a transformative experience that becomes the heart of the episode.

Arrival and Check-In

Upon arrival at the serene Ralston White Retreat, Erika is greeted by fellow participants, each carrying their own stories of loss.

Erika Mahoney [16:49]: "That's me at the beginning of my solo adventure on a four-day grief retreat, taking a moment to clear my head before check-in."

Story Circle

The retreat's first evening features a powerful story circle where participants share their experiences, underscoring the universality of grief.

Erika Mahoney [21:29]: "The story circle was heavy. There was so much loss in that room. Parent loss, child loss, friend loss. My heart broke for each and every person as they shared their story."

Personal Reflections and Breakthroughs

Throughout the retreat, Erika documents her internal struggles and breakthroughs. Day two sees her grappling with vulnerability during group sessions, eventually finding a metaphor for her grief through a symbolic body of water.

Erika Mahoney [24:23]: "As I explored alone outside, I came across what I can only describe as some sort of magical body of water... I stand still to take it all in. This pool felt like a portal to my dad."

Her brother also shares his transformative experience, emphasizing the cathartic release of emotions and the strengthening of his connection to their father.

Erika's Brother [24:23]: "I feel like I can find him, and he's with me, and we're always together."

Interactions with Fellow Retreat Participants

Erika forms connections with other retreat attendees, each navigating their own paths through grief. Through interviews and shared experiences, the episode highlights the diverse ways individuals cope and find community support.

• Grace Coughlin [30:21]: "This all feels super new to me and I really am seeking help and tools on how to live life carrying this grief."

• Marina Annette Alvarado [31:35]: "I'm learning that I can carry my grief, and I also learned that I know how to find my people..."

• Suzanne Sterling [32:22]: "I don't feel so alone in my grief anymore."

• Sarah Flippo [33:13]: "I'm building myself, like I'm reimagining, who I am with this grief and just moving forward finally."

These interactions underscore the theme that while grief is deeply personal, shared experiences can foster profound connections and collective healing.

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Return and Reflection

As the retreat concludes, Erika reflects on her journey of metamorphosis, acknowledging the pain but also the growth and newfound understanding she has achieved.

Erika Mahoney [37:40]: "Looking back, I'd also give the grief retreat 10 stars for helping me move forward in my healing."

She also highlights the importance of community support through conversations with friends like Kate Erickson, reinforcing the episode's message of love and resilience.

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Conclusion and Teaser for Next Episode

Erika wraps up the episode by addressing the community impact of the Boulder shooting and teases the upcoming trial of the shooter, promising listeners a continuation of her quest for justice and closure.

Erika Mahoney: "Coming up on Senseless. After years of delay, the gunman who killed my father and nine others finally faces justice."

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Notable Quotes

• Erika's Mom [02:54]: "We're here to learn about love is what I believe. And everything that happens is an opportunity to grow and to learn about love."

• Denise Warfield [08:51]: "Your dad is present right now."

• Erika Mahoney [10:53]: "It's like a kind acceptance of the pain. A loving, a graceful. Yeah, that's beautiful."

• Claire Bidwell Smith [18:31]: "When we're carrying really heavy grief, it sometimes begins to feel like we're splitting ourselves in half."

• Erika's Brother [27:24]: "I feel like I'm starting to climb up and out. But I couldn't have gotten here without dipping into the well of pain that's clearly still within me."

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Closing Remarks

In "Searching for Meaning," Erika Mahoney masterfully conveys the harrowing journey of grief and the arduous path toward healing. Through personal anecdotes, expert insights, and the shared stories of fellow survivors, the episode serves as a testament to human resilience and the enduring quest for meaning amidst senseless loss.

Transcript

[Erica Mahoney]

Hi, it's Erica Mahoney, the host of Lemonada's hit podcast Senseless. The show starts in just a moment, but first, a message from a sponsor that's truly helped me. When you lose someone, people show up with flowers, meals, and kind words. But eventually they have to go home, focus on their own lives, and you're left with the reminder of your reality, plus an overwhelming mountain of things to do. Paperwork, phone calls, account closures, plus decisions you never expected to have to make while grieving. That's where Duckbill can help. It's like an executive assistant for your personal life, powered by AI and backed by real humans. Because life is a lot. It's messy, it's complicated, and Duckbill makes it a little bit easier. Duckbill helps with the hard stuff. Canceling subscriptions, transferring utility accounts, even organizing memorial plans. It keeps track of what's done and what's next, all with kindness. I've used Duckbill to stay on top of my calendar, book doctor's appointments, and refill prescriptions, especially when life felt too heavy to manage it all. Because Duck Bill gives you structure when everything feels unstructured. Visit getduckbill.com and use code senseless for 50% off your first two months. That's getduckbill.com, and now back to the show, Lemonade. This podcast relives an account of gun violence and the trauma that follows. Please take care when listening. I'm back in my childhood bedroom, hanging out with my mom. My old room pretty much looks exactly the same as when I lived here. When we first moved in, my mom painted angels on either side of my window. She did a space mural in my brother's room in high school. Both of us painted over the murals, but the memories are loud, and I can easily picture the angels right now. Little statues with wings are all throughout our house. Reminders, as my mom would say, that we're protected and that life is much bigger than we know.

[Erica's Mom]

I know that life goes on after death. And because I know that, I know Dad's okay, what we call in the afterlife. And that gives me a lot of comfort. And that's just how I feel. And that keeps me going.

[Erica Mahoney]

My mom has always talked openly about her beliefs. We were the kind of family who went to church on Christmas Eve and discussed extraterrestrial life around the dinner table. My parents were obsessed with aliens. Other than watching the X Files every night. Shout out to David Duchovny. My mom was always reading. Her bookshelves are full of books on Consciousness like the Power of now by Eckhart Tolle. Sitting beside my mom on the bed, I ask her to explain her beliefs.

[Erica's Mom]

You know, we're here on Earth for a lifetime, no matter how long that is. Maybe very short, maybe longer. But that we're here to learn about love is what I believe. And everything that happens is an opportunity to grow and to learn about love. And I believe when we pass on, we move into a place where our soul is greater and bigger than what we realize when we're in human form. And because I believe that, it makes me. It's easier to grasp where dad is. And I try to share that with my children to reassure you he's okay.

[Erica Mahoney]

Well, where do you think he is?

[Erica's Mom]

Well, he's in spirit. He's not in the physical form.

[Erica's Brother]

Because sometimes you say, oh, he's in the sky. He's in your heart.

[Erica Mahoney]

Like, what do you think? I'm curious.

[Erica's Mom]

What I believe is he's in a different dimensional place where his soul is intact. He's intact. He's in a place of love, and we are in a physical form. We're in this dimension right now. And it's interconnected, but yet separate at the same time.

[Erica Mahoney]

I love that. I think your spirituality and the way.

[Erica's Brother]

That you raised me with those concepts made this whole thing in some ways easier to digest. And, you know, I've.

[Erica Mahoney]

I've found ways to connect with dad.

[Erica's Brother]

In whatever different form he's in now. And that's been through mediums and talking.

[Erica Mahoney]

To him and looking for little signs. How do you.

[Erica's Brother]

How do you stay connected to dad?

[Erica's Mom]

Oh, just, you know, through consciousness, thinking about him. Sometimes I say I need help here. And even today I did that. I thought, you know, just be here for me today. I know. I know you can. I know you will. And all I do is put it out there and know that he is there for us.

[Erica Mahoney]

After my dad died so unexpectedly and so abruptly in a horrific mass shooting, acceptance became a big part of moving forward. I had to learn how to accept the way he went and accept we didn't get to say goodbye. But it wasn't easy. There was no anticipation or preparation ahead of my dad's death. No final hug, no goodbye. No opportunity to say all the things we needed to say to each other. It will always bother me deeply that he died all alone, face down in a parking lot. So sometimes I rewrite his ending. I imagine myself lying on the pavement next to him, holding his hand and saying, I love you, dad. Thank you for everything. Thank you for making my life an amazing adventure. Then I imagine him saying our favorite tagline, See you later, alligator. In a while, crocodile. As I tried to cope with my dad's death, my grief guided me to a medium.

[Denise Warfield]

Hi, my name is Denise Warfield and I live in Monterey, California, and stumbled on to being a medium sometime in my 50s and was totally surprised by it all.

[Erica Mahoney]

Denise has since retired, but she was willing to speak with me again for the podcast. She didn't grow up in a house like mine. She didn't believe in angels or anything of that realm until her dad died. On that day, she says an angel visited her and she had no doubt in her mind that it was real.

[Denise Warfield]

And from that moment on, I began to step into my soul's purpose of being a psychic medium. Here in this time on this planet in the United States and been doing readings for over 30 years now and forgotten more than I can possibly remember. So if we get into I. If you ask a question about do you remember that? I can easily say no, have no recollection because my mind does not do the readings. My soul's energy, my higher self does the readings.

[Erica Mahoney]

I was surprised when she said we could meet on Zoom. I assumed it had to be in person, but she says geography and location don't matter in that realm. She says she can reach souls when she connects with someone who loves them.

[Denise Warfield]

My side of this is that when I am not talking with you, your father is not around me. So I'm not haunted by him or the others. The only actual passed over people I ever feel are really close friends or my family, my passed over family. So on a regular daily basis. And of course I constantly feel the angels and my guides, those are always around me. But I can easily visit with your dad for 15 minutes and then he can go on his journey and I can go on mine without having to interact because of our souls, we're not connected in this lifetime other than my soul offering to bring his soul forward so that you can hear from him.

[Erica Mahoney]

I will never forget that first conversation we had.

[Denise Warfield]

Okay, remind me. I don't.

[Erica Mahoney]

I told you not much, but that I wanted to connect with my dad and the circumstances around his death. You know, being killed in a mass shooting at a grocery store with nine others. And you told me it's so beautiful it's making me tear up now that all 10 of them joined hands and formed a circle and they lifted up above this door together.

[Denise Warfield]

Yes. In fact, that's bringing tears to me right now. So, yeah, one of the Reasons I don't remember things like that is because of the emotion that it brings out of my body. And if I was. If I kept those emotions for myself, I'd be overwhelmed and I'd lock myself up in a crazy loony place for. Just because of the overwhelm. But, yeah, your dad is present right now.

[Erica Mahoney]

Well, I was thinking about what I wanted to say to my dad today, and I wanted to tell him that I'm doing okay.

[Denise Warfield]

He knows that he's showing that you're always going to have a scar, and only when you rub the scar that it causes pain. So if you. If you can rub the scar in a musical way, in a musical tone way, then it will be easier for the rest of your life. Don't know how you do that, but good luck. So I think he's just asking that you create a pattern of receiving that pain that turns it into a rhythm instead of a scratching.

[Erica Mahoney]

It's like a. Like a kind acceptance of the pain. A loving, a graceful. Yeah, that's beautiful. I like that. Because the pain won't ever go away. I mean. Yeah. And music is an interesting choice because he. But, you know, he. I love music and I. When I. When we moved back a year ago, I joined the choir at my old high school. And there's a rehearsal tonight. And my dad was always in the audience, my mom, too. And he's just. Music is such an important thing in our family. And so I get what he's saying. Totally.

[Denise Warfield]

Okay. Well, I was amazed that he kept me going to my right lung area with the scar. So in our world, grief is held in the lungs. The male side is the right side. So that's our business. And our male side, our female side is the left. And our past is on the left also. And creativity is on the left. So he's showing me the scar that's living in your lungs. And think about what you're going to be doing tonight. You're going to be singing with your lungs. So that music is going to be softening and gently easing the grief. Wow, that's nice. I like that.

[Erica Mahoney]

Me too. I love that. I love that. And I just, you know, I just feel like I'm the luckiest girl ever to have him as my dad and dad. You're still my dad. And he just. I love him so much. And I miss. I miss him a lot, too. Of course.

[Denise Warfield]

Yeah, he's very aware of that. He comes in place with your kids. He also wants to say hello to your husband and give him kudos for moving?

[Erica Mahoney]

Yes, yes.

[Denise Warfield]

Give him kudos for moving and being brave enough to take on a different way of life. You have a brother, right? Yeah. That's having a big. He's giving your brother big, huge hugs. Who's the champion? What's the word champion have to do with your brother? Champion at what?

[Erica Mahoney]

He's a doctor.

[Denise Warfield]

Okay, so he's championed that. Yeah, he has since your dad died. Or was he a doctor before?

[Erica Mahoney]

Yeah, he was in residency. He was. It was a really hard time because he had to, you know, he had to work hard to keep going.

[Denise Warfield]

Okay, well, he's showing me that. That he's giving him a champion, and he's also rocking the baby. Dad's very aware of what's going on with you guys, and he's sending lots of love.

[Erica Mahoney]

When you lose someone you love, it's natural to think about big questions. Questions like, what happens after death? Where do we go? Will I see my person again? Connecting with Denise and through her, my dad was one way for me to explore those questions. In the pits of my grief, I tried Reiki or energy therapy for the first time. And last summer, I did something way outside my comfort zone. I went on a grief retreat. And I kept an audio diary, recording all my thoughts and feelings throughout the entire experience. That's next. I'm Erica Mahoney, and this is senseless. As a mom, wife, friend, and now a podcast host, life is a lot. One minute I'm chasing the kids in the yard, the next I'm racing to the recording studio. It's not easy, and honestly, it's a little overwhelming. But I wouldn't trade this life for anything. And I know I'm not alone. I see you juggling all the things, looking composed on the outside while quietly unraveling inside. From birthday parties to doctor's appointments, dinner plans to back to back meetings, we could all use an extra set of hands. That's where Duckbill comes in. Duckbill is like an executive assistant for your personal life, powered by AI and real humans who tackle your to do list so you don't have to. Because life is busy, it's messy, it's complicated, and Duckbill makes it a little bit easier. All you do is submit a task, and Duckbill gets on it fast. I've used Duckbill to stay on top of my calendar, schedule appointments, order thoughtful gifts, and even plan my podcast, launch party venue and all. Duckbill helps me show up for the people I love and take care of myself. So if your plate is too full, hand off a few things to Duckbill Life is short, so duck it. Use code senseless for 50% off your first two [e-mail] that's getduckbill.com are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number number one best selling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft.

[Denise Warfield]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits.

[Erica Mahoney]

Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.

[Erica's Brother]

Okay, I am here in Mill Valley, California, which is just north of San Francisco, and currently I'm standing in a community park with really beautiful tall redwood trees and a little creek and I'm gonna go dip my toes in really quickly.

[Erica Mahoney]

That's me at the beginning of my solo adventure on a four day grief retreat, taking a moment to clear my head before check in.

[Erica's Brother]

Honestly, I'm really, I'm really nervous. So this is, I think it's gonna be good, but it's a not gonna lie. A little bit of a scary thing to do. You know, a little bit unusual maybe in our culture. But I'm here for it and I think it's gonna be powerful and meaningful and you know, I'm here.

[Erica Mahoney]

There's no turning back now. So wish me luck. After my pit stop, I take an Uber up a curvy mountain road dotted with homes. There's no cell reception, so we have to stop to ask a man walking his dog for directions. When we finally pull up to the Ralston White Retreat, my Uber driver and I are both pleasantly surprised. It's gorgeous, he says. There, behind a heart shaped lawn with a wraparound driveway, stands a big white house in the middle of a pine forest. As I say goodbye to my driver and roll my suitcase across the gravel driveway, Claire Bidwell Smith waves to me from the patio. She's my therapist and a writer specializing in grief. Claire is sitting beside the three other retreat hosts. All of them came into their work from a personal place of loss. It's a relief to see Claire, but honestly, it's strange seeing her in person. Our weekly therapy sessions, which lasted for almost a year, were online. It had been three years since my dad died. In some ways, life had moved on, but I still hadn't. Claire says that's a good reason to go on a grief retreat.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

I Think we walk around our day to day lives, you know, trying to do normal stuff, go to work, go to school, pickups, be in marriages, you know, all kinds of things. But when we're carrying really heavy grief, it sometimes begins to feel like we're splitting ourselves in half. You know, half of us is just deeply grieving all the time. But it's not something we feel like we have a place to express it. People around us don't understand it, they don't see it, they don't know how to talk about it. So then we kind of bottle it up and try to put on a normal face and act normal. But when you can go to a grief retreat, I think it's a period of time that you can really concentrate on just being in that grief, feeling really seen and understood by other people. Having these kind of aha moments as you understand the ways that other people are grieving, kind of really connecting over that and just immersing in it. The experience ends up being one that you walk away from it and you can never notice remember it.

[Erica Mahoney]

After checking in, I leaf through an old photo album by the front door and learn the house was built in the early 20th century as a wedding gift from Ralston White to his bride, Ruth Berecki, hence the heart shaped lawn. Ralston called their home the Garden of Allah after his favorite novel. Then I lug my suitcase up to my bedroom. It's tucked into the corner of the top floor overlooking the lawn. My room has two beds covered in floral quilts. I put my suitcase on the smaller one, but decide to not unpack quite yet, just in case I need a quick getaway. As I get situated in my room with the door closed, I hear some of the other 25 people on the retreat trickle in. There is an unbearable heaviness to it all, a sense of trepidation. I hear humming and soft crying coming from the room next to me. Later that night, I'll learn my neighbor is a mom who lost her teenage son.

[Erica's Brother]

Okay, so it's day one in the evening and we had dinner together and I really enjoyed talking with the, with the other people here. And then we did like a story circle and everyone shared their story and it was really hard and it was really, really sad. And I think one of my biggest takeaways from tonight is just how everyone is hurting and grief is so ever present in our lives and it affects us in so many different ways. The mind, the body. Yeah, it's like if we all share this, this thing, why aren't we Talking more about it. And it does feel good to just kind of voice my story out loud and vocalize my story out loud.

[Erica Mahoney]

The story circle was heavy. There was so much loss in that room. Parent loss, child loss, friend loss. My heart broke for each and every person as they shared their story. I questioned whether I had the capacity to absorb other all of this pain, whether this experience was healthy for me, or if it would take me backwards. I call my husband from bed and let him know I may be coming home early. It's dark outside as I look out the window at the heart shaped lawn and toss and turn for hours.

[Erica's Brother]

It is day two of the grief retreat and currently I'm going on a little hike by myself just to have some alone time. I'm really craving that. Just being in this group therapy session, I'm. I'm having a hard time. I think that's totally normal. We're doing an exercise where we go around the room and everyone says one word about how they're feeling. And most of the time it's nervous, anxious, sad, and you know, those feelings are okay. And I think I'm. I'm really uncomfortable, honestly, but I'm trying to just accept that. And it's really nice to be out here. I'm surrounded by redwood trees and ferns and the sunlight streaming through and it's so beautiful. And I can hear a creek in the background and I'm gonna go look for that creek right now. But grief is uncomfortable and it's hard and I miss my dad so much. But I feel. I feel like I made the right choice coming here. It was really scary to do this. And as you know, as I've shared in these audio diaries, I've really thought about leaving. I almost left this morning, but I'm gonna stick it through. This whole thing is just a metaphor for grief because you have to move through grief even when you don't want to. I tried to push my feelings under the rug and they just spilled out in really difficult ways. And, and I think that's how this retreat is. I think it's. You can't go around it, you have to go through it. And I'm going through it and it isn't easy, but I hope by the end I feel.

[Erica Mahoney]

A little bit more.

[Erica's Brother]

Connected to my dad.

[Erica Mahoney]

While exploring alone outside, I come across what I can only describe as some sort of magical body of water. It's behind the big white house at the bottom of an old concrete staircase lined with fuchsia bougainvillea, giant redwood trees. Stretch into the sky, creating shade. I sit by the edge of the water and feel a sense of peace and and stillness. Something I've been craving since the start of this retreat. Hundreds of fallen eucalyptus leaves are floating on the water's surface. It's beautiful. When I look closer, I can see bright orange goldfish darting throughout the foliage. What is this place? I think. Maybe an old well. I want to stay longer, but our afternoon classes are about to start. I'll be back, I whisper. All afternoon, I can't stop thinking about the water. On one side was old rebar. It looked like the skeleton of a diving board. And that's when it hits me. The pond isn't an old well. It's an old swimming pool. My heart started pounding and butterflies erupted in my stomach. In the second session I had with my medium, Denise, she'd mentioned the oddest thing. She said, your dad is showing me a body of water. It's a swimming pool surrounded by redwoods. He's saying he'll be there. I had searched for this mystical pool for years when my friends and I took a trip down to Big Sur. There was a pool at our hotel, but it wasn't surrounded by trees. I'd almost forgotten about the whole thing, let it go until now. This had to be the pool. When my group session ends, I jump up and race to the old photo album in the entrance hallway. Quickly, I leaf through the pages again. And then there it is. Pages full of black and white photographs of the pool in its prime. Below one of the pictures, the text reads, the swimming pool fed by mountain water Proof. I wake up early the next morning to visit the pool. The sun is slowly coming out. As I walk down the path, I take note of each detail. The rusty hand shovel lying in the dried grass. The bird feeder hanging from a tree branch. I want to live in this moment. Seal everything in my memory, just like I did when I walked down my wedding aisle with my dad. As I get closer to the pool, I stand still to take it all in. The view and the feeling and the sound. This pool felt like a portal to my dad. Hi, Dad. I miss you. I put my feet in the water and walk away from the pool with the strength to surrender to the rest of the grief retreat.

[Erica's Brother]

Day three I am so glad I didn't leave. There is an arc to grief and there's an arc to this grief retreat. I feel like I'm starting to climb up and out. But I couldn't have gotten here without dipping into the well of pain that's clearly still within me. Before breakfast, I walked to this magical pond full of goldfish and dried flowers and leaves and. And I just cried and I cried and I felt my dad and I talked to him and I told him I missed him. I feel proud of myself for sticking with this retreat. It was not easy for me, but I do feel lighter and I feel more open.

[Erica Mahoney]

By this point, I had started to make some friends. A young woman named Grace, who also lost her dad, and the sweet woman who was staying in the room next to me, the mom. And so I decided to settle in, unpack my clothes that were still in my suitcase and put them away in the dresser, staying, surrendering and searching for meaning. That's after the break. I'm Erica Mahoney, and this is senseless. Stay with us.

[Kate Erickson]

Tired of the same old political shouting matches and talking points?

[Erica Mahoney]

Looking for thoughtful conversations that go beyond the headlines and help you understand issues that matter?

[Kate Erickson]

I'm Sarah.

[Erica Mahoney]

And I'm Beth.

[Kate Erickson]

Together we host Pantsuit Politics, a podcast where we bring Grace nuance and perspective to the news because democracy deserves more than hot takes.

[Erica Mahoney]

Join us as we approach politics and current events with curiosity, empathy, and a commitment to understanding the bigger picture.

[Kate Erickson]

If you want to stay informed without the anxiety, we're the show for you.

[Erica Mahoney]

New episodes drop on Tuesdays and Fridays. Subscribe to Pantsuit Politics wherever you get your podcast. During some afternoon free time on day three, my new friend Grace and I decide to go for a hike in Muir Woods, a place I've always wanted to visit. Three other women join us, and I ask if it's okay if I interview them during the hike. Everyone says yes. I put my recording gear into my backpack. Muir woods is earthy and glittering, like something out of Harry Potter. After we descend into the forest, the five of us sit on the damp ground underneath a ring of redwoods. We go around the circle, sharing why we're here and some advice on grieving. Grace goes first. She's 25 years old.

[Grace Coughlin]

Hi, I'm Grace Coughlin. I'm from Seattle. I decided to go to this retreat because I lost my dad and it wasn't expected. It was very sudden and I've never really experienced grief before, so this all feels super new to me and I really am seeking help and tools on how to live life. Like carrying this grief. I would say this retreat has been a bit overwhelming, mainly because I like to run from my loss and my trauma, and it's put me in a position where I'm forced to sit with it and face it. So that's been really tough, but also at the same time, rewarding, because now I know how to face it, and I know it's not going to be as scary as I think, and that it could actually make me feel better to acknowledge it in my life every day instead of try to hide it and pretend it's not there.

[Erica Mahoney]

Sitting next to Grace is Marina. She lost her mom a year and a half ago and then her dad not long after that. She came on the retreat to try and find herself after feeling untethered and to try and find others who could understand her.

[Kate Erickson]

Hi, I'm Marina Annette Alvarado. I'm from San Antonio, Texas. I'm 42 years old. My experience has been that I'm not alone and I am relatable. There are also other people who are going through the exact same thing that I'm also going through. I'm learning that I can carry my grief, and I also learned that I know how to find my people, and I know how to feel my people and talk to my people, my mother and my father.

[Erica Mahoney]

Next is Suzanne sterling, who is 58 and lives in Northern California. She came to the retreat in honor of her mom, who recently passed away. Even when death is expected, losing someone you love is heartbreaking.

[Suzanne Sterling]

The experience for me has been complicated. A lot of new emotions and memories have come up in terms of different people that I've lost in my life. And I was quite nervous to come thinking that to lose my parents at my age is totally normal, and therefore it should be easy, and it's not. But I would say, overall, I'm feeling really validated. And in a group of 25 other people who all seem to have similar experiences, we're all in different places of grief with different kinds of people that we've lost, but we've all lost our people. And so some of the things that I ruminate on in my mind, I now know that 24 other people have very similar thoughts in their minds. So I don't feel so alone in my grief anymore.

[Erica Mahoney]

As the sun starts to set behind the towering trees, it's Sarah's turn.

[I]

Hi, I'm Sarah Flippo. I'm 41 years old and from Charlotte, North Carolina. I came to this retreat to honor my mom, who I lost 25 years ago. And I, just as I've become a mother, really felt the urge to kind of reconnect with her and really dive into my grief.

[Erica Mahoney]

Sarah says she buried her grief unknowingly for so long, she was afraid to feel it all.

[I]

My experience going to a grief retreat has been all the emotions. I started out being extremely anxious, doubting myself, doubting all of the reasons I signed up. Two extremely heavy emotions revisited. Memories and feelings that I didn't want to feel again. Coming back to just being hopeful and feeling gratitude, to feeling calm and feeling that I'm building upon. I'm building myself. Like I'm re. I'm reimagining, like, what. Who I am and this grief and just moving forward finally.

[Erica Mahoney]

Grief knows no bounds. There's no timeline for these powerful emotions. The five of us walk out of Muir woods feeling closer to each other. We're able to joke and laugh and just be ourselves. When we get back to the big white house, a special activity of the grief retreat is waiting for us. Everyone was instructed to bring a photograph of their loved one sitting in a circle. We shared our pictures and then put them out on a table in the center of the room. It was like all of our loved ones were together.

[Erica's Brother]

Today is day four of the retreat. The last day. I about to head out. Just sitting here, reflecting. I can see clearly now that I was really resistant to this retreat. I did sign up and I did get on a plane, and I did come and I stayed. But I think mentally and emotionally, I was resisting a lot of feelings. And on day three, I just had this breakthrough. I decided to surrender to my grief. I let the day flow, and it was so beautiful. It was very personal. There's a lot of things that I just want to keep to myself, and that's totally fine and totally cool. I feel so much more connected to my dad leaving here, and that was the whole point. And it's not easy to get there, but I really do. I feel like I can find him, and he's a me, and we're always together.

[Erica Mahoney]

As we meet for our final circle at the retreat, Claire had us go around the room again and say one word out loud that described how we were feeling. At first, the words I heard were scared, nervous, sad. By the end, it was free changed. Okay. As I packed up to leave, I decide the one word I would use to describe my entire experience at a grief retreat would be metamorphosis. Heading home, I felt so different than when I arrived. Before getting on the plane, I met my friend Kate Erickson in San Francisco. She's funny and genuine. I needed some levity and familiarity after such an emotional weekend. Hello. My name's Kate Erickson.

[Kate Erickson]

Friend. Friend of the pod, friend of Erica Mahoney, based in San Francisco. And we are at a cafe, you know, just got our breakfast, and we're about to head to the airport.

[Erica Mahoney]

Thank you so much for picking me up.

[Erica's Brother]

Seriously.

[Erica Mahoney]

So do you want to talk a little bit about. We really became close senior year of high school because we were in the same choir group, Excalibur, and we. It was a big deal.

[Erica's Brother]

It was a big commitment.

[Kate Erickson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it was huge. Taking, you know, doing, you know, 6:00am you know, like, at school, 6:15am Four days a week, and then 7:35 was, like, considered sleeping in. It was nuts.

[Erica Mahoney]

I remember my dad would always make sure I was up for those early morning practices. He knew I loved singing in Excalibur. Now music is helping me heal as I've continued to sing in my high school's alumni choir. Here we're performing Magnolia Summers, composed by choir member Christy Stolle. Staring out the window Swimming down the.

[Grace Coughlin]

Hillside Greatest like a stranger But I feel the former time of piling in.

[Erica Mahoney]

The car A mattress on the floor Overnight in the Forget the shape of magnolia leaves Choir is a safe place Where I can let it all go Rubbing my scar in a musical way like the medium said to my refuge.

[Erica's Brother]

In precious sleep When Greatest comes I'll.

[Erica Mahoney]

Hold on me won't forget the shape of magnolia thank you for being there for me when my dad was killed. It's so funny, the people who come out to really, you know, take that extra step, and you are one of them, one of those people. And I just want to ask you.

[Erica's Brother]

Like, how did it.

[Erica Mahoney]

How did the. How did the mass shooting affect you as a community member of Boulder?

[Kate Erickson]

I mean, I think what's so devastating is that you see all of these things on the news, and you're like, oh, my God, that's so horrible. That's like, you know, but you don't necessarily think it could happen in your town. That's obviously clearly wrong and naive to think that. But I've seen what it's done, you know, for Boulder and for those who were directly impacted like you and the. In your family. You know, my heart just goes out to, like. I can't even. I've only seen, like, the very, very surface of the. Of the damage that it can. That it does. You know, I just want you to know that you are loved and you have a network of people, and, you know, I am so proud of you, and so just. You're just the most wonderful mother and friend. And the way that you've been able to come back, I think is is in the face of just the most horrific incident. I just, nobody has to go through this. And you've just been so strong and. Yeah, I'm just. I love you so much. And I'm just so, you know, proud of you and all of that.

[Erica's Brother]

And I love you. You too. Thank you for saying I said I wasn't going to. Sorry, I. I know.

[Erica Mahoney]

I'm like.

[Erica's Mom]

Thank you so much.

[Erica Mahoney]

Thank you for taking me to the airport, too. Yes. Listen, I got it.

[Kate Erickson]

Yes. Uber, Kate. Give me five stars, please.

[Erica Mahoney]

Ten stars. And looking back, I'd also give the grief retreat 10 stars for helping me move forward in my healing. I'm Erica Mahoney, and this is Senseless. Coming up on Senseless. After years of delay, the gunman who killed my father and nine others finally faces justice.

[Suzanne Sterling]

May we bring the jury in?

[Erica Mahoney]

The trial is next time on Senseless. Senseless is written and reported by me, Erica Mahoney. I'm your host and executive producer. Christa Allmanzon is our senior producer and executive editor. Original music, sound design and mastering by Hannis Brown. Audio editing and sound mixing by Jeremiah Edding, plus original music by Daniel Wideline. This podcast was made possible by support from Community Foundation Boulder county and the Boulder County Arts Alliance. The episode was recorded by Erin Garrison at Coop Studios and Boulder Boulder, Colorado. Executive producers for Lemonada Media are Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time, because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus, you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like premium episodes of Senseless that you won't hear anywhere else. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemononapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com. don't miss out. And coming up in the sixth premium episode, a conversation with trauma therapist Angela Schellenberg, who lost her dad to gun violence when she was a teenager and then faced a trial herself. I wish I had, you know, some magic wand or some magic words that could ease the anxiety and the trauma that it brings up. But I don't really. It's a weird thing. It's like a bad when you see a bad car accident, you don't want to look, but then you kind of do. Listen to our conversation now with Lemonada Premium. I'm Erica Mahoney. See you next time.