James Acaster

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Senses Working Overtime with David Cross"
Episode: James Acaster
Release Date: December 5, 2024

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Introduction and Setting the Stage

David Cross welcomes James Acaster to the podcast, setting a relaxed and conversational tone. They begin by discussing personal anecdotes and experiences, establishing a rapport that blends humor with genuine insight.

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Darren Brown and Audience Manipulation

[00:52] James Acaster:
James shares a story about meeting the magician Darren Brown through Jason Sudeikis. He recounts the amusing experience of encountering two men dressed identically at Brown's watch party, which led to a friendship.

Key Quote:
"I was processing a lot of stuff all at once, and I was like, oh, my God, you're Darren Brown."
— James Acaster [01:14]

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Oscar Watch Parties and the Nature of Awards

The conversation shifts to discussing Oscar watch parties, exploring the dynamics of rooting for friends versus acknowledging the often arbitrary nature of award outcomes. They critique the performative self-deprecation in acceptance speeches and the superficial nature of certain award segments.

Key Quotes:
"It's a big lie that we're all perpetuating to further our careers."
— James Acaster [03:31]

"It's great when people let themselves down with a speech that doesn't read the room very well."
— David Cross [03:40]

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James Acaster's New Comedy Special

James Acaster introduces his latest HBO special, "Heckler's Welcome," premiering on November 23rd. The special is highlighted for its innovative format where the audience is given freedom to interact while Acaster delivers tightly scripted material.

Key Quote:
"It's my new comedy special where I let the audience do whatever they like while I try and do my tightly scripted material."
— James Acaster [08:35]

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Navigating Audience Interactions and Heckling

A significant portion of the discussion delves into the challenges and intricacies of performing live comedy. James Acaster shares his experiences with different audiences across the UK, USA, and Europe, highlighting how audience behavior can dramatically affect a performance.

Notable Insights:

• James explains his strategy of setting "house rules" to manage audience behavior, such as discouraging phone usage and disruptive heckling.
• He recounts instances of both supportive and hostile audiences, emphasizing the emotional toll of inconsistent audience reactions.
• David and James discuss the psychological impact of performing, touching on themes of vulnerability and the continuous effort to improve as a comedian.

Key Quotes:
"The more I try and have rules with it, the less fun it feels. Oh, fuck that."
— James Acaster [09:58]

"You need to address it head on. So the main thing became do a show where you go up and you do the contract at the start so you can do whatever you like."
— David Cross [16:06]

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Cultural Differences in Comedy Reception

The duo explores how cultural contexts influence the reception of comedy. James Acaster notes the stark contrast between enthusiastic American audiences and more reserved UK audiences, especially in cities like Nottingham and Northampton.

Key Quote:
"When I go to America, I find the people here are really into comedy and excited on their little secret that they've discovered."
— James Acaster [19:30]

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Adapting Comedy Styles and Material

James Acaster discusses his approach to adapting his material based on audience interactions. He emphasizes the importance of flexibility and the ability to pivot during performances to maintain the flow and engagement of the audience.

Key Quote:
"I don't have to point out why the person in the audience is weird or rude or mean. Everyone knows."
— James Acaster [28:43]

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Personal Growth and Influences

The conversation shifts to personal influences, with James Acaster reflecting on how witnessing comedians like Josie Long inspired his approach to comedy. He appreciates the blend of personal storytelling with broader societal commentary, highlighting the evolution of his comedic style.

Key Quote:
"Watching someone like Josie makes you want to be a comedian again... why you wanted to do it, how limitless it still is."
— James Acaster [57:03]

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Life Outside Comedy: Cats and Personal Life

James Acaster shares a heartfelt segment about his love for cats, discussing how his four feline companions bring joy and balance to his life amidst the challenges of touring. This segment adds a personal and relatable dimension to the episode, showcasing the human side of a professional comedian.

Key Quote:
"These cats are hilarious. They're friends. It's the best thing watching two cats be friends with different breeds."
— James Acaster [63:10]

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Closing Thoughts and Future Endeavors

As the podcast nears its end, James Acaster reflects on his upcoming projects and personal life. He hints at taking a year off to develop new material and spends a few moments discussing his experiences in New York, highlighting both the vibrant and challenging aspects of the city.

Key Quote:
"How long will you take before you start developing new material? I think probably let's take about a year off, probably start again in August."
— James Acaster [58:59]

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Conclusion

The episode offers an in-depth look into James Acaster's comedic journey, his interactions with diverse audiences, and the personal experiences that shape his performances. Through engaging dialogue and insightful anecdotes, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the complexities and rewards of stand-up comedy.

Notable Quote to End:
"I think James Acaster with the special on HBO is going to be phenomenal. Thank you very much for coming down."
— David Cross [76:14]

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This episode serves as both an entertaining and enlightening exploration of a comedian's life on and off the stage, providing valuable perspectives for fans and aspiring comedians alike.

Transcript

[A]

This is a Headgum podcast.

[B]

So, as you know, I let you choose.

[A]

I'm going this one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

All right. Well, thanks for coming in.

[A]

How do you feel about me choosing this one?

[B]

I. Fine. And I think that putting my drink over here probably subtly influenced me. Right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're influencing me already.

[B]

Little Darren Brown actually put this down here.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And you chose that manipulation.

[A]

I was thinking when you said, choose the chair. This is a Devon Brown moment.

[B]

Yeah. I should actually ask him. I should ask him for a trick and then see how many times it works.

[A]

Oh, to teach you one.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I was. I actually. I met him and I was a huge fan. Yeah. And met him through Jason Sudeikis. Didn't know he was going to be there. He was having a something watch party, an Oscar or basketball or something. And he had this spread out on the dining room table. And I could see as I walked in there were two guys dressed exactly alike in a very specific type of dress, I think, just short of foppish. And I came around to grab some pizza or whatever, and it was Darren and his boyfriend or husband, I'm not sure. And they're both dressed alike. So I was processing a lot of stuff all at once, and I was like, oh, my God, you're. Oh, hi. And we became friendly after that.

[A]

And when you go to an Oscar watch party with those guys, is it weird for you guys? Cause, you know the people who are winning awards and stuff, because the rest of us are watching it, and they're.

[B]

Like, I mean, I've only known a handful of those people. Leo, Tom Dinklage. He doesn't like you to say Peter. I mean, you know, you kind of. You know, it's all right. And, you know, I'm not. That's. I mean, that's.

[A]

You're not taking me. There's no.

[B]

I'm not asking you. I'm just saying one knows it's all. And you kind of root for your friends. But, you know, I know for a fact that people don't do their due diligence, and their other people are voting for their friend because why not? And. And don't see all of the things that are options. So it's one of those things. You're rooting for people, and even more so with the Emmys, but you also know it's bullshit, and you know they know it's bullshit. So it's a. It's a big lie that we're all perpetuating to further Our careers.

[A]

I just like watching the. Because me and my friends will sometimes do Oscar watch parties and that's late in the uk. Stay up late to watch it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's just. Cause it's funny. It's really funny how like just how it gets talked about. I'd like how everyone getting on stage and talking about how important acting is really funny. And then I really like it when people let themselves down with a speech that doesn't read the room very well or just read the tone of the world.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It's great.

[B]

Yeah. I mean they're few and far between those. And there's usually some hint of self deprecation that's not really that self deprecation. Dating.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And then the worn out kind of, you know, maggie, Kira, go to bed. It's time to go to bed. You know, one of those things. And I like it when somebody who wins a. An award of lesser prominence. I'll say, I shouldn't say lesser prominence, but not as flashy. Right. So an international short animated film. Right. And they win. And then they just go up for like five minutes. They're talking through the music. The music plays louder and. And you. You don't want to take anything away from them because it's their moment and they may not get another one, but you also are simultaneously going and nobody cares, dude. I mean there's like 19 people who. You're taking up a lot of precious time. And this is why we have a shorter In Memoriam segment. Yeah.

[A]

Do you think you'll be when you die? Do you think you'll be in the In Memoriam at the Oscars?

[B]

I do not.

[A]

They wouldn't show like you splattered on the ceiling in Men in Black?

[B]

Nope. I don't think so. I truly don't. Knowing who they left out before, they've overlooked some pretty, you know, serious people that, you know, I think was kind of shitty that they overlooked. And I'm not even, you know, at one tenth of their level.

[A]

I'll complain if you're not because you're going before me. I'll complain if you know that.

[B]

What have you heard?

[A]

I just.

[B]

I just don't make that face and just shrug it off. What did you hear? What makes you say that? That I am going to die before you live dangerously.

[A]

You don't.

[B]

You know, I do live. Not as much anymore.

[A]

Throw caution to the wind.

[B]

Yeah, not as much. I'm. I'm settled down. I got a kid still coming for you. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Aren't There ways to stave it off, though, with, like a powder. Vitamin powder.

[A]

Yeah. Or you could, like, get transfusions from your kid. If having a kid's smart, you can get that blood that.

[B]

I'd never thought of it that way.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But she's a girl. Is that. Does that matter?

[A]

No, I think that's even better. I think girl blood is really good. Yeah.

[B]

Makes sense. And she eats well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. When does that process start? When she's seven?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Whenever, like. Yeah, she's old enough to be convinced. Talked into it.

[B]

But now, wait a minute. When you do a transfusion, it's not. I'm not taking all her blood.

[C]

She'll be.

[B]

She'll still remain alive, generating more blood. Right, I see.

[A]

Otherwise, yeah. You have to have another kid.

[B]

Right. That's gonna adopt.

[A]

Yeah, Just adopt and go for him like that. But they'll be pretty quick.

[B]

That's what Musk is doing, I believe.

[A]

Is he adopting and then getting their blood?

[B]

He's just having kids and getting their blood. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

One by one. Yeah. The adoption agency are gonna be onto you pretty quick if you keep going back and going, I need another kid. That last one didn't have enough blood.

[B]

But why don't I go to a different adoption agency?

[A]

Yeah. I think they talk. I think there's gotta be network. They gotta be like, listen, if David Cross comes in, what about, like, the.

[B]

Super Christian ones that won't let gay people adopt kids who are desperate for love? Can I go to them?

[A]

Yeah, you can go to them.

[B]

I just pretend I'm Christian.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Speaking tongues. Handle a snake. Come in with her. Like, sorry, guys, I was speaking to my snake. Let me just put this over here. And then do you think even the.

[A]

Christian ones, if you go ahead and started speaking in tongues, even though they are supposed to believe in that.

[B]

Well, that's a sect of Christianity.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's not every Christian. They all recognize what it is. Yeah. I think there's a. A delicious irony in some Christians rolling their eyes at other Christians going, can you believe the nonsense they believe? That's always amused me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. I don't know. So, James, first of all, thank you for coming here. Thank you. Are you doing press for the special?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that what you're doing in town?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. That's basically what I'm doing here. Yeah.

[B]

So let everybody know. Give them the details as they say.

[A]

James Acaster, Heckler's welcome is out on HBO on the 23rd. Of November. It's my new comedy special where I let the audience do whatever they like while I try and do my tightly scripted material.

[B]

That's pretty ballsy, I gotta say. It's in. It's a. It's a. Like, there's a lot of complaining amongst comedians and even comedy writers. Some of it valid, some I don't think is valid about the. The shift in the propensity of people to just do crowd work. I get it. I don't get it. At the same time, I get it. But that's not what you're doing.

[A]

No. Right.

[B]

You've created a much more difficult scenario.

[A]

Yeah. And I didn't want to go. I mean, I'm not really. I didn't used to just go on and be like, hey, what are you doing? Even though I like watching comedians who are very good at that do that. And it's really impressive to watch and exciting, but I was never that good at it. I wanted to do my shows that I'd spent a long time on and was very excited to do those. And then I'd react really badly when people would heckle or be on their phones or even not laugh a lot.

[B]

Be on their phones?

[A]

Oh, yeah, dude.

[B]

You gotta have a rule when they walk into that short, little.

[A]

But then this is the thing. This is what I was kind of thinking more and more with it. It's like the more I try and have rules with it, the less fun it feels. Oh, fuck that.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no. The audience. I've been doing this for a while and the audience greatly appreciates it. Sometimes they even applaud when the list of rules. Right now, before I'm on tour. Hi. Hi. This is David Cross. I'm on tour currently. I don't know when this is coming out. I'll still be out on tour and for all the dates and places you can go to officialdavidcross.com I've got about another couple weeks in the States, then I got Canada and then I go to UK Europe for a month in April. Norway, come say hi. Sweden, Germany, all the places the. The uk. I better get Ireland in there. Should get Ireland in there. And some. And then some. I don't know. It wasn't on this tour, but I love going to. Yeah, I did Belf and Dublin last time and they were great. They're always great. Glasgow's great. I mean, whatever. All right.

[A]

I know what you mean. A lot of audiences. Definitely a lot of audience members, because I'm an audience member as well. When I go to stuff. I really appreciate people not being able to do stupid shit in the audience next to me and ruin the show for me when I've paid.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I'm telling you, when, when the little announcement comes, either it's the house announcement on this tour. I had Bob Odenkirk record a thing that has. That's all the rules, but it's silly and stuff. And, and people are thankful that you're doing that and not. And also not doing the, the. What are they? Yonder pouches? Yoder pouch?

[A]

Yeah, those like.

[B]

Yeah, the lock em up things. Yeah, don't let them. And people don't like that. But it's. Everyone abides, you know, nobody, they, they, they're happy. Just, you know, it's gonna be 90 minutes, two hours, and sit back, don't get on your fucking phone. If you need to go on your phone, go out in the lobby.

[A]

Yeah, I wouldn't. I think there is. And people probably already pick it up on like our different. The way you are. People will do as they're told. Would you be like, immediately you went, no, fuck that. It's like, okay, I'm not fucking getting on my phone during that guy's show. And with me, they'd just be like, listen to this guy. So, like, I'd have the rules before my show and past tours and you know, say, off your phones, don't do this. Don't take photos. People walk up to the stage and start filming me. They're on their hind legs. I'd just be filming me at the front. And I'd go, what are you doing? And they'd be like. And I'm thinking of a very specific time now.

[B]

And is this current where you are in your career currently or like when.

[A]

You were past tours? Yeah, before. Before, they were allowed to do whatever they liked.

[B]

Right, right. That's.

[A]

I. What are you doing? And. And I remember she lowered her camera. She went, I'm a fan. And carried it going. And I had no authority there. And then I'd make fun of it and try and like, be like, no, this is insane. But so then what would happen is I would. Because my Persona on stage and the way I am on stage isn't like, shut the up. What the are you doing?

[B]

Right.

[A]

All that. When I switched to that. Because that was the only way to then get them to realize that's insane. Then my Persona on stage changed. The show changes. The audience goes, okay, this has gone from like a whimsical storytelling show or a Personal storytelling show to suddenly, well.

[B]

Do you think that perhaps there is value in that? In that people would go, oh, shit, he's serious. I don't want to upset him.

[A]

Yeah. But then I always felt the shift in the room, and then, like, harder to then go back into the thing you had planned or the thing you were doing.

[B]

It is harder.

[A]

And sometimes I would deal with it in a way that really suited my Persona and worked, and I'd be like, okay, that's cool. Maybe we can try that again, or whatever. But a lot of the time, I would. I would just get so frustrated with it. And so kind of like. And I was enjoying it less and less, and I was coming off stage being like. Also, I was finding myself, like, a lot of the time I was reacting badly to them just not laughing much, right? So they'd be a bit quieter than the night before, or I was tired. And so I basically needed them to be incredible in order for me to enjoy the gig, right? And it's not about me enjoying the gig, obviously, but, like, you know, and then, you know, early on, I'd start being like, this gig's shit. You're the shittest audience. I played to all tour. This is fucking shit. And they're sitting there like, we've just got here.

[B]

Yeah, you can't do that.

[A]

And all this. Yeah, you can't do that. And I know it's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would have already established with myself the last time I did it or the last hundred times I did it, don't do that again. And then I'll do it again, right? And as I'm doing it, I feel completely vindicated. And then as soon as I come off stage, why did I do that? I got to stop doing. That's really bad. I'd say to my tour manager, like, this is. I've got. And I had a tour manager who did multiple tours of me. He was like, yeah, yeah, but you say this every tour. It's still happening. Start of each tour, I'd be like, I'm not gonna do it this tour. I'm not gonna have a go at them for no reason. I'm gonna be really good. Just give them the show that they've paid for, and then I'd start doing it again and all of this. So this tour was like, if I make a contract with them at the top, I've done it on a previous gig. Like, I think I'd done a show in Melbourne where I acted out a number of times in a row during the run of the comedy festival. And then I went on stage one night and was like, hey, I've been a dick for like seven nights in a row, just so you know. And I promised not to do it tonight. And then we had a good show. And the person who was the tech at that venue said to me afterwards, like, that was good, that you had that contract with them at the beginning. So after Covid and not doing stand up for a couple of years, I was very. I found I enjoyed not being on stage and that had been nice. But I did want to start doing it again. But I was very aware that you're just going to behave like that again if you don't address it head on. So the main thing became do a show where you go up and you do the contract at the start of you can do whatever you like.

[B]

So it came out of a necessity, in a sense. And that's. Well, that's cool. That's even cooler, I think. And how many of those type of shows did you do before you're like, okay, I'm ready to shoot this?

[A]

I don't know how many exact. Well, we did. I did the show for two years. Like, you know, and I didn't do, like, you know, loads and loads and loads, like, as much as I used to, but I don't know. I did it hundreds of times. Like, it was a lot of times.

[B]

Just to be clear. So you had your hour set and you're saying, I don't want to be a dick. You guys can heckle me. I'm going to attempt to do my. And then. So how much of your material do you think you get through? How much time are you doing?

[A]

So it depends on one night to the next. So, like, a lot of the time I was doing. So there'd be some nights I did all my material and no one heckled and no one did anything.

[B]

Did you like that? Yeah.

[A]

Or sometimes I didn't. If they were really quiet, I wasn't enjoying. Those were the hardest ones sometimes. And then I. But I'd be really proud coming off and going great. You just did the show. And in the part, like, especially in the early days of the tour, yeah, I was still feeling like, why the fuck aren't they laughing at me? And feeling all annoyed about that, but not letting them know. About halfway through the tour, I noticed that feeling wasn't even there anymore and I wasn't even thinking about that and I was just doing the show and they weren't really responding much and I was getting through the show. Without being a brat and without even feeling like a brat in. Internally. And that was a.

[B]

This is fascinating because you don't really hear this side of what a standup goes through. And the. The. And recognizing, I can't do that. That's a dumb, bad way to behave. I need to change this. And it's, you know, I think people have kind of a general idea, but they don't really know, like we do, how kind of lonely it can be up there when you're in the middle of somewhere you've never been to before. You don't know these people. You have a job. Your job is very specific. And, you know, it. It can. It can be tough, you know, on your psyche. And so I think this is a really interesting look at how one person decided to deal with it and do you. Without. Let me ask you this. Have you noticed how much. How many shows have you done in the States?

[A]

I don't. Quite a few. Like, I don't know, about four, like, three tours and one visit where I just did a bunch in la, a bunch in New York. So, like.

[B]

And how. Where'd you go and how many shows would you do on a tour?

[A]

I think I'd do about. I probably do about 15 shows over 15 cities. And, like, you know, there'd be like, all the kind of, like, usual places where.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People go to. No. Off the beaten track, really.

[B]

So do you find a difference between UK shows, American shows and European shows? European being the.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, huge. But, like, I think a lot of the time it's different for different comics because of where you're from. And so, like, definitely when I go back to the UK after being here, it really does. It feels very, very different. And I don't know, I have heard a few American comics say about how quiet and how difficult UK audiences are. So it must work the same when you guys come to us. But, like, when I go to America, I find, like, because I'm not as well known here, the people coming to see me are quite excited on their little secret that they've discovered that no one else really knows about.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

They're really into comedy and you have a really great gig where they get every little line and every little throwaway and nuance. And here the lights go down before the gig and they start applauding and cheering. And then the first gig back in the UK after here, the lights go down and there's nothing, just some snores and you're like, what? That's really the hardest little run on this Tour was when I'd come back from doing a stint here. And then I had Nottingham back in the uk, which, you know, anyone listening to this from the UK will know is, like, not. You know, there's a lot of cities in the UK that may be well applaud when the lights go down. Manchester would do that. Or, you know, or if you went over to Ireland, go to Dublin, but, like, not in them. The lights went down and they went from talking to each other to just going, yeah. And I was immediately feeling like, oh. And I did the house rules off stage, which are all applied to me and not to them. So it's. James, a caster cannot do this, not do this, nothing. Just. I'm not hearing any snickers or giggles or anything. Or, like, you know, sometimes I get people over here would start hectoring during the house rules when I'm off stage. It'd be fun, smart. It's just nothing. And I walk on. It's like, oh, this is really, really, really hard now. Because the difference from being here to being there was so stark. And, you know, that's not the case all over the uk. But equally, that run in Nottingham was four. I was doing residencies everywhere, so I wasn't, like, you know, doing as many cities on this tour. I'd do, like, a residency in somewhere where I'd enjoyed in the past. And I'd enjoyed Nottingham in the past, stage four in a row, and they were all really tough. And the show improved way more there than it did when I was here. I really loved these shows and really enjoyed doing them.

[B]

But do you riff a lot?

[A]

Yeah, and I try and, like, change how I'm delivering the story and, like. And also one night to the next, yo, in Nottingham. I suddenly, like, cut loads of stuff because I was like, it's just not working and I'm not gonna go up, you know, and now that I've removed that choice of blame them and find this, you know, angle of ranting about how rubbish the gig is, which would, weirdly, you know, the reason why I kept on doing it was because half the time that would work and lift the room and make it funnier. I'll just have to commit to being that guy for the rest of the night. And if they were. If they liked it, that's who they were coming back to see. And that would cause a problem further down the line.

[B]

That's a. That's another interesting aspect. Did you get repeats? Because.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

So you get people going, oh, you got to see The James Acester show. It's.

[A]

Yeah. So there's some people who would go and then stay behind afterwards at stage door, whatever, and say. And if it was no heckles.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Or if there had been heckles, they'd be like, oh, I saw you. Previously in the tour, there wasn't any heckles at it. So I wanted to come and see it again to see how it would be if there were heckles. And they were the kind of people who would never heckle, so they couldn't do it. So they're sitting there hoping someone else does. And there's a guy who followed me. He went, he saw me in three different countries, heckled me. Every time that I was better the previous time, he'd always say, oh, that's kind of funny. Yeah, it was funny. I got a kind of gift.

[B]

And then. Did you let the audience know? I don't know this guy, but I kind of know him because he's following me.

[A]

The final time he did it was in Vancouver and we got to know him for. I think we talked to him for 20, 30 minutes. Other people had questions for him. We learned a lot about him because that's great. It was like, right, this is the third time you've done this and I would like to know, because first of all, you did it in Gothenburg to me, and then you did it in Glasgow and now you're doing it in Vancouver. And I would like to very much like to know who you are.

[B]

Three very different places, completely different places.

[A]

And you didn't even live in any of them, by the way, at any point. He'd lived in two different cities during the tour, neither of which I'd gone to. Like, yeah, so that would happen sometimes. And that was fun too, to kind of like have people who wanted to see how is it different?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can imagine. Did you. Would you come up with. Were there any, like, go to responses to certain heckles?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, sometimes. But like, not like. Because I was never trying to win. So if they heckled me, I was trying to be as kind and open to them as possible. So not kind of. So it was never any. Like, I've got to have a put down for anything, right? So it was always like, if people would heckle me.

[B]

Sorry to interrupt, but the heckles, it seems like if they know the format, then they wouldn't be truly like angry, mean spirited, awesome people, really.

[A]

But there's that thing of like, you know, people are always bringing their mates who don't know who you are. So there's always gonna be some people in the audience who hate the show. There's always gonna be people who love it. Always gonna be people who hate it. No matter how you think it's gone, there's someone in the audience who feels the opposite way, and it's. That's always true.

[B]

Do you think they hate the material you're trying to do or the. Or just you.

[A]

It can be. There was a guy in Sheffield who at the very end, heckled, and we spent a very long time on him, and it was really fun, but he was angry, like, legitimately furious, and he heckled me. It was like almost frothing at the mouth and growling, and he said, you look like a fucking vegan, is what he said.

[B]

And that's a terrible heckle.

[A]

It's a terrible heckle. It's just an angry man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He wasn't even trying to. So he stayed on me for a long time and he kept on saying, like, this is what he said. All the things he didn't like about how I was dressed. I was pretty much dressed like this on the night, but he was like, Converse shoes on and all this. Really hated that made him angry.

[B]

He's got some issues, he said, you.

[A]

Know, he went off on, like. And also he said. I said, like, how did you come to be at the show? Because, you know, those tickets had sold pretty quickly, and I thought, you know, got to be quick to. I've got these particular show tickets. And he was like, it was a. It was a gift someone gave me as a gift, like a Christmas present. I was like. To a show for a comedian you'd never heard of. And he was very confusing, but he was. He was definitely had been sitting there the whole show and didn't like everything about me and was angry about all those things. But in the past, I might have been like, well, why the fuck are you even here? And all this. Whereas it was way more fun to just continually ask him questions and get to know him and have him show himself.

[B]

Or you trying to wind him up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But in a fun way, in a playful way.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Not that he liked that necessarily, but it was more fun to be like, you know, I mean, I can't remember. We got into, like, his job. He was a farmer and all of this. And, like, that's why he hated vegans and. And all of this stuff. And I hadn't even said I was a. Right.

[B]

He said, you look like a vegan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Therefore, you are going to be the subject of my ire.

[A]

This is all the things I hate about the world. And clearly I'd never seen me before.

[B]

This comedy show didn't work.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And maybe it was like some people would heckle, trying to. I had someone trying to upset me. I told a story. There's a story in the show about a dog I used to have. And in the second half, I came out and someone heckled me early on in a show saying, I tripped over your dead dog in the interval. And your dead dog was in the foyer and I tripped over it. It's dead body was on the floor of the. I like. Oh, they're not. They don't dislike me. They're just. They're trying to see how this. How far they can stretch it. At what point does he break because he's doing a show about how he's not trying to do that, but if I say something that might upset him, how is that going to go? And instead I was just like, I'm really sorry, we're going to get someone to clean that dog up. And then they kind of sat there realizing how they. Because also, what. You know, I mean, what. I probably knew anyway. But what was definitely proved during doing this tour is that I don't have to point out why the person in the audience is weird or rude or mean the audience. Everyone knows.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And the amount of times I've wasted over the years of being, like, trying to win against these people, where actually everyone's already on board with this person's a dick, or they're rude or they've misread the room or whatever the thing is. And I can just have fun with that rather than going straight in on them and trying to. Yeah, trying to win.

[B]

So. So how long have you been doing this show? You said two years. Two years.

[A]

Two years of doing that. So I started like March in like 2022 and finished it July this year.

[B]

And how many shows did you do for the taping?

[A]

Well, yeah, so I filmed it twice for the taping with no interval.

[B]

That's something y'all do that I fucking can't stand. They always. When I go anywhere, I'm pretty successful at saying there's not gonna be an intermission. And. Yeah, but there are some places that are just like, nope, that's. We gotta.

[A]

We had to fight quite hard to them to be allowed to not have the interval. And I mean, the reason why I want it, because I've done it so many times the show, and I knew that it goes best when people heckle A bit, yeah. So, like, I didn't. I wanted. And I was very nervous about when I film it. What if they just don't heckle? Because I was filming it in Northampton, which is kind of like around where I grew up, because a lot of the stories about me being a kid. So I was like, I want to do it there.

[B]

That. That is why I asked. Because of the specific nature of what you're trying to do. I thought maybe you would shoot more than two to be able to put. Because if you have one where it's like, nobody heckled.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I ended up doing it really four times because I also. I had a run earlier in the tour, maybe two or three weeks before I was gonna do the taping. And it was going. I was doing four nights. And the first night was like, that's the best one of the tour. And then the second one was the best one. And then I contacted the guys who were filming it. I said, can we get a crew here for the fourth night? Yeah, and just do like a. So they sent some people down and we did like a lower budget, guerrilla type filmed that show.

[B]

Because everybody knows the. The, you know, the concept and the. I think you could get away with just cutting to that show. You know, I think most people go, I'd rather see the best moments. If it's going through the material, thread through anyway. I don't give a shit that you're cutting to a different show.

[A]

Yeah, that was kind of like. The thinking was like, if it goes well, we can just use that. That show if. And we have that option where we can cut between. Like, I didn't. I also, like, decided to film the Dublin show at the very end of the tour as well. So we filmed that. We filmed it twice. Dublin's amazing. And that was kind of like. The thinking was like, that room, Vicar street in Dublin, and that audience. I like that room are always phenomenal. So, you know, I was scared because I chose to do it in Northampton deliberately because I normally have tough gigs in Northampton. And then I started to, like, after that Nottingham run, I started to wimp out and be like, if I go to Northampton and they respond like Nottingham just did, and just watch me in near silence, this is going to be rubbish. And so I put Dublin in as well. So I had that as a safety. I knew that I'm doing that at the end of the tour. They're always great. The worst it can be is fine. And I'll take that. So, like, okay, I've got that in. I Did this one in a place called Truro on the Fly because it was so good all week. And that was. Honestly, I was on, like, a high after doing that Truro one because I felt like we had just gone for it and we'd done it and it was a great gig. And they'd basically let me do the whole show, responded really well, and then at the end, heckled the shit out of me. And it was really fun. And one of the hecklers was really mean, but in a way that was like, he's kind of baited, too. I'm wearing a stupid outfit for the whole show. I'm wearing this, like, sweatsuit, like, tracksuit that's really bright, garish colors. And it's kind of to lure them.

[B]

In, like, in a chabby way or.

[A]

In a. Yeah, it's kind of like.

[B]

That kind of guy. Is that your Persona?

[A]

No, but, like, I basically found that, like, I was wearing, like, all black for the tour to begin with. I'd gone to see Fancy. I'd gone to see Aber Voyage, and I've been given the Abbo Voyage jacket. And I. And I just thought, I'm just gonna wear this on stage for no reason. I guess because I've been sitting, watching Aber Voyage and been thinking, like, yeah, this is nice, being the hologram. That must be a good gig. And, like, you know, not having a part. They just do the same gig every night. They wouldn't fucks with them. And so I was like, I'll wear that. And I think maybe there's something in that. There wasn't really. And I just wore black. And I found that I thought, oh, the audience had been a bit too subdued, and I wanted to do things that would make them heckle without asking them to heckle, so.

[B]

So people brought up the tracksuit.

[A]

Yeah. So I wore this because it was stupid and would raise questions, like, why is he fucking wearing that? So, like, people would sometimes heckle me about that.

[B]

Shouldn't you be on a swing set, you know, chugging a 40?

[A]

I mean, that would be a lot better than what.

[B]

I think what I got was being a cider.

[A]

I think I just got shit tracksuit yelled at me. But then I feel like in this special, actually, the Northampton, when someone, because it's all green, someone just shouts Kermit at me. And that's it. But, like, it's kind of perfect that you get those very basic heckles as well as the genuinely funny people in the audience. But, yeah, I basically was worried that I wouldn't get the show I wanted. So filmed it a lot. And then what we're putting out as the special this month is the Northampton show edited down to 75 minutes. I did it for three hours on the night and then we did it. Did it for three hours again. Yeah, well, because I wanted every time they heckled, I wanted to fully go into the heckle and get as much as I could out of it. But I also wanted to do all of the material right and I didn't give them an interval.

[B]

Sure, sure, sure.

[A]

And we did it in the round as well.

[C]

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[B]

Do you drink when you're on stage?

[A]

No, no, I have done like maybe three or four times I've been on stage drunk in 16 years.

[B]

I didn't say drunk, I said just water drink. Well no, I don't mean drink water. I mean drink alcohol or beer or cider, whatever. Okay.

[A]

No, I like yeah, again it's like three or four times I've done that and probably is two times worked and the other two times. Yeah, it went very badly. But no, so I was just like. And I really loved it. I really loved the filming of it and it was in a room that's really special to me as well.

[B]

But so when this airs. Yeah, you're done with that run.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's all. It's all done, like. So that Dublin one was the very final show of the tour. We did film that. And we will put those shows out at some point in the future because it's like a completely different version.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of the same show. We've released a vinyl that is also on streaming at the minute of the show. That's in my hometown, and that's another completely different night. And they just heckle for the whole thing. Pretty much. They weren't really as 5% material.

[B]

Did you know any, since it's your hometown, did you know people there?

[A]

I knew some people in the audience. Not any of the hecklers, but the hecklers turned out to know each other.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So as it went through, I think someone at some point in the show goes like, is that race? The guy's like, yeah, yeah. And they know each other back and forth. And I have to, like, mediate between the two of them.

[B]

And I don't. I've never been to Northampton. What kind of rep does it have?

[A]

It's like a small market town where, like, not much happens. And definitely my hometown of Ketryn gets. Is the kind of place where I can tell people around the UK where I'm from, and they have no problem to my face going, yeah, oh, I've been there to shithole.

[B]

Is it Nora Central?

[A]

Like, it's in the. In the Midlands.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, I'm very fond of it. You know, Kevin knows how I feel about it. I've done loads of gigs where I've, like, ranted on stage over the years about things I don't like. And I've also done a lot of, like, you know, positive stuff about what I love about Ketryn as well. Northampton itself. Yeah. Is like the bigger town near Ketryn that, you know, I'd go to with my mates on the weekend to, like, go on the shops or whatever. And. And I kind of, like, did a music course there at college. So, like. Yeah, but, like, it doesn't always. If a comedian is doing a tour the uk, they don't always go to Northampton. So, like. Yeah, they kind of. They don't always get shows coming there, so.

[B]

Then they should fucking appreciate it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Say thank you. Thank you, James.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, sure. I think some people really appreciated it and some people didn't. And that's. But that's the nice thing about, you know, so often we just film our shows in London.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I really didn't want to do that. I want to go somewhere where that doesn't usually happen. And doing a show that was in the round for three hours, there's a couple who had sat on the front. On one of the front rows. And throughout the show, if you watch them, they start off like with a goodwill in the world. And then they just gradually get more and more. They're not really laughing and then they start talking to each other and then they start looking angry every time. If the audience applaud something, they kind of just sat there like that. And then for the last 10 minutes of the show, they're not there.

[B]

Have you thought about using that as a thread to like beginning, middle and end of your.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of your special.

[A]

Yeah, Just to kind of like point it out. To put graphics in the color. This points them out every time. And go. And now they're gone.

[B]

Yeah, that's. Well, also, in fairness to them, three hours, that's a. That's a big ask for a lot.

[A]

To ask of them. And there were some people who at the end were like, really excited. They'd seen that and they knew it was like a really different. And that this, you know, not it's out of the ordinary. And there were some people who I was like, yeah, I kind of knew that would be difficult and not everyone's gonna enjoy that. And again, that's kind of like I wouldn't be able to do that. On previous tours. On previous tours, I didn't really acknowledge the things about my stand up that were not for everyone and would get frustrated that. Why is everyone not liking this?

[B]

Right. Do you get walkouts?

[A]

Yeah, on previous tours, all the time. Yeah. And sometimes angry walkouts and sometimes really disruptive ones. You know, I was doing, especially in the early tours where you're basically, you know, the stage is the floor and the audience are just all raked above you and to get out, they have to walk across the floor that you're on.

[B]

Fucking love it.

[A]

Yeah, you just get people walking past you here, just telling you how much, how unfunny you were. So, yeah, I'd get a lot of that. I had a guy walk out once, really make a big deal of it, like, walk all the way to the next to me, turn to the audience guy and kind of make a big deal of going, fuck it. Not for me. By that, I mean, exit really dramatically. And then I had to say to the audience, okay, so that is not the way out. That's the toilet. Yeah, he's gonna have to come out in A minute to get out there. And there was a curtain behind me and I was like, my guess is he's gonna go behind the curtain, but there's not enough room there for him to do that undetected. So you will see him. And there was like five minutes later. The curtains are rippling.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

You can tell he's just crab walking to the door. So, yeah, a lot of that. A lot of people walking out. Sometimes. Sometimes it's weird when you're not. So I imagine you've had a lot of people, you know, disagree with you or what you're saying on stage and be quite vocal and angry and then. But then you're talking about certain things that you're like, okay, well maybe that's gonna happen. It's par for the course. I would be doing stuff where I was like, I don't know how this has made this person that angry.

[B]

Yeah, good point.

[A]

You know, I'm going on and.

[B]

Well, the vegan guy is a great example of like, yeah, why? How would I ever anticipate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Your anger at the world and probably yourself.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Based on that I look like you. What you perceive a vegan looks like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is also like, yeah, okay.

[A]

Yeah, he had a thing in his head. If I'm going to see a comedian, the comedian would be like this. Whatever my taste in comedy is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which is obviously the opposite of what I'm doing. And then I'm representing everything that is annoying him about.

[B]

Do you think there are farmers who just grow like grains who are like fucking meat eater. Yeah, you look like a meat eater.

[A]

Yeah. They come and watch, you know, Joe Rogan absolutely flip the fuck out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're being like, oh, everything that's wrong in the world, Joe Rogan. So, yeah, I hope.

[B]

How is Joe Rogan perceived in. In your circles in the uk? Yeah, just, you know, curiosity or.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we all know about, you know, comedians know about him. The public, you know, unless they're fans of him, don't. It's not like members of the public who are like, who hate Joe Rogan in the UK because they don't really know him. Or maybe like proper stand up fans, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Probably there are some people who don't like him, but like, yeah, you know, I imagine it's much more of a pain if you live here, do a comic. But like, I mean, I loved that, that video that I can't remember what the YouTube channel was that they did of him recently, that very funny kind of fake YouTube documentary.

[B]

Tim Heidegger's thing.

[A]

Well, the guy's been really serious. Was that Tim Heidecker did it. They're serious about him.

[B]

Well, I don't know what you're referring to exactly, but I do know that Tim Heidecker, he has a couple different things that he does, but he has this thing called office hours. And one of the things they did, they had these two guys, also comedians, and then Tim is himself, but he's basically doing Joe Rogan. And it's three hours long, and it's all a lot of like, oh, wow. Fascinating. Interesting.

[A]

He's great at lampooning that stuff. And the Bill Maher stuff that he does is so funny.

[B]

He also did a. He also did a piss take of Bill Maher. Bill Maher. Bill Maher's podcast.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, that's what I meant. So I mispronounced his name because, again, he's not that big, big a deal in the uk.

[B]

Tim's a genius.

[A]

Yeah. He's so funny.

[B]

But is that what you were thinking of when. No.

[A]

So there's another thing that, like, someone did. It's just the voiceover and loads of footage of Joe Rogan. It's about his latest special, and it's someone coming from the point of view of someone who completely believes everything that Joe Rogan says about comedy comedians are and how important he is. And there's only so many real comedians on the planet. So the narrator is someone who completely.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Is going along with all that. And it's so funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because of just how he's talking about. Because a lot of the time with those. With any comic who kind of talks about the importance of stand up, like, it's the. Like, it's this essential thing that we're the only truth tellers. A lot of the time when you watch their actual specials, it's. It's quite hilarious.

[B]

Why does taking a shit make it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So side by side with what they're saying off stage and that. That little. I mean, I'll try and find it for you afterwards. It's. All of it is. Every second of it is hilarious.

[B]

I'll check it out. Yeah, and you should check out the. The Tim Heidecker office hours. Yeah, it's one of those things that's not funny, but it's so kind of perfect. It's just like, wow.

[A]

Yeah, he nails it. Well, the Bill Mastiff is like, oh, that's exactly. I saw that before I saw the club random footage. So I was like, oh, this is really funny. Send up one of those comics. And he's not even like trying to do over the top jokes, he's doing exactly what they would say. And then I saw the Bill Maher clips, I was like, oh fuck, that's what he's like. And it's more embarrassing because you're a real guy and you're a lot older. The fact that like you're speaking like this is. Yeah, it's just very cringe and I think that's how we view. Yeah, a lot of comments like. But then when comic, when we have comics like that in the uk, then we'll probably react a lot more frustrated and whatever because there are, you know, colleagues who we see a lot and you are just like, what? Why are you doing that?

[B]

And I hate that shit.

[A]

Especially they're like, if I say this, the people it annoys, they'll talk, they'll only fuel the, they'll do it for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like, because we've just not moved on with that conversation, that argument at all. People say, you know, every time it's oh, I'm being silenced, I'm being cancelled and people don't respect my freedom of speech. And then the other side says that's not happening. You're getting loads of work. If anything, you're getting more work than ever and you're allowed to say whatever you like. People are just allowed to respond to it with what they want to say. And then of course, and then the response to that is just, well, I guess people are too afraid of jokes and they're not even responding to that. And that's where it's been for, I don't know, 10 years or like however long it's been of that conversation happening where one side will say this stupid.

[B]

Thing to talk about. It's a complete waste, it's so ridiculous of the truly important things out there. It's just not, I think so much.

[A]

Of the time it comes from that place. Like if, like, like the way that I felt on stage in the past, you know, we were saying earlier, you feel scared to be up there, you feel vulnerable, it's, it's a lonely place if you don't feel like they're on your side. You know, I've lashed out at them in ways that they don't deserve and it's, and I've definitely, you know, had the option of coming off and going, yeah, fuck em, I was right, I know what I'm doing, I'm a stand up comedian. They don't know what's funny. And they're wrong all the time. And that just comes from a place of, like. It's just fear, isn't it? You're scared that you're. You might be a shit comedian. And, like, I can openly admit that, like, I'm probably never gonna lose that fear. I'm always gonna think that I'm probably shit, and I'm always going to be working to get better, but there'll always be a part of me thinking when they don't laugh, they're right. And.

[B]

Well, do you ever have that? I've had this experience multiple times, specifically in Europe where. And I would say almost all the time in Amsterdam, Sweden, the Scandinavian countries. Definitely Amsterdam and the Scandinavian countries, where I'll be doing a set. And, you know, it's an hour and 15, hour and 20, whatever. And I think I'm. I'm bombing, you know, I mean, there's nothing going on here, you know, and it's. And it affects you. When you plow on, you're professional and you try your little tricks and everything, and. And. And you. And you are excited about wrapping it up right. You know, you're coming to the end and you're like, all right, well, thank you, Oslo. And. And then you get a fucking standing ovation. And they're cheering and they're like. And you're like, what the fuck? Where were you?

[A]

Yeah, what the fuck? Yeah, there's so many shows that are like that, or ones where.

[B]

That's really strange to me.

[A]

Yeah. Or you can come off and they'll go up to you and be like, that was the best show I've ever seen. And you're like.

[B]

I truly have no idea.

[A]

And I've had that before, watching comics. You know, my. You know, my. Probably my favorite comedian is Josie Long. And I went to see her. Yeah, I went to see her before I ever became a comedian. I went to see her.

[B]

She's great.

[A]

In Northampton, where I've just filmed. And it was one of the gigs that made me want to be a comic and, like. And there was, like. It was in the early days of her touring, and there's probably about 50 people there. And she was talking about stuff that I didn't know. You could just get on stage and talk about these things and, like, tell these kind of stories that you didn't have to be an observational comic or you didn't have to be this. And I just made me want to do it and realize that it was an art form like any other. You could do whatever you wanted. And then when I met her, you know, as when I became a comedian, and I said to her, like, I saw you on this tour. And she remembered that gig and was like, that was the worst gig of the tour. And I was like, one of the.

[B]

Great things about Josie and. And not that they're the same kind of comedian, but she shares a quality with Daniel Kitson, who's one of my favorites. I don't think he cares for me very much, but so be it. But they both are seemingly unflappable, and they're both the kind of people that I will get angry as an audience member if people don't like them or are being like, you shut up and listen to him or her. They're great. And they just, like. There are very few comics who I feel that way about. But, like, that's upsetting to me that you don't like Josie Long. What's wrong with you?

[A]

Yeah. The two of them, I think my entire generation of comics, or at least my peer group, like, those were the people who we were, you know, Daniel and Josie, we were watching those, you know, as we were thinking about becoming comedians.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And all aspired to be like them and still do now and still go and watch them.

[B]

And they're great comics, and I.

[A]

And I don't know how they're doing that.

[B]

I feel like they intuitively have this capability that took me a long time to get. To get to that point. Like, I had to really work on it.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

And they just seem, like, natural, and they might not be. It might be a lot of, you know, work that I'm not seeing, but they just seem, like, naturally, like, affable, unflappable. They're going to smile, laugh through it, because it's funny to them, even if they're, you know, they're not doing well. That's interesting.

[A]

You know, there's a lot of pushing themselves as well. And, like, just like, that thing of, like, I, you know, my first, like, run as, like, a professional comic was because Josie asked me to support her on tour in 2010, and I got to quit my job and go on tour with her.

[B]

What were you doing? What was your job?

[A]

I was working as a classroom assistant in a school for autistic children. So I was, like, doing a lot of material. Well, a very, you know, a worthy job, but then quit it. To do the most egotistical career didn't really make me feel like a good person. So, yeah, I'm not gonna be doing this anymore. I'm gonna serve My own needs on stage. But, like. And she was doing a tour then where she was just starting to do political stuff for the first time. And the tour was kind of like. The show she was doing was kind of two halves of, like, this first half of, like the Josie Long that people had, you know, been seeing for a few years and, like, doing stories about her life and, you know, and like, focusing on the minutiae of things and. And then the second half of, like, how much she hated the Tory government and like, and. And a lot of, like, righteous ire in it. And then, like. And then, you know, for a few years after that, it was political shows and she went from being this comic who would talk about her life and quite optimistically about the world to someone who was disillusioned with everything.

[B]

I don't think I've seen that.

[A]

It was. And it was great. And it was like, so, like this whole other side to her that was really exciting to see. And you got to see it's like three shows in a row. And you got to see that progress and get better as well. And now it's like this mixture of stuff where it's about her life, but the kind of harsh realities of the world are all just sewn in there now. And now it's like, yeah, I saw her maybe a couple of years ago do a work in progress that was like just one of my favorite shows I've ever seen. It wasn't even finished yet and it was. It's just so rich now and three dimensional and the whole thing is just like, it's her life, but it's the world and it's what we're all going through at the same time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you just feel inspired all over again and want to be a comedian again. Watching someone like that. And that's.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

What you want. I don't, you know, so much time we can get into talking about, like, I do it all the time. I just, you know, because, like, the kind of comics we were talking about earlier will just frustrate me and I'll start talking about standup and the kind of comedians who. And the kind of conversation and the discourse that goes on around stand up. And it's also negative because it's all just focused around these bullshit arguments that other comics are creating if they're not allowed to say this, that, or the other. And then you go and see someone like her and remember why, like, you fell in love with the whole thing, why you wanted to do it, how limitless it still is as an. As a, you know, performance, as an art form, you know, everything. And yeah, I should try and see more of that and try and go and see those comics who inspire me more rather than.

[B]

Well, you got time now. You're. You're going to wind this down.

[A]

I've got a lot of time to go.

[B]

How long will you take between you before you start developing new material?

[A]

I think probably let's take about a year off, so probably start again in August. I used to just go straight into the next show and get my angle.

[B]

Well, you got time to go back to the autistic kids and go back.

[A]

To them and say, hey, do you need anything? I'm not.

[C]

You're an assistant.

[A]

I'm a bit rusty now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't really. I'm not across everything.

[B]

And then there's a guy named Rusty who's like, I'm a bit rusty too. And then there's your opening bit.

[A]

And then he's my character. I could go on stage and talk about Rusty, the classroom assistant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Thank you, David. I will do that.

[B]

Where do you live now?

[A]

London. Yeah, I live in, like, North London, Northeast London. Yeah. Yeah. So I love it and like living my girlfriend and we have four cats and that's the best.

[B]

That's the worst.

[A]

I knew you wouldn't like it.

[B]

No, I don't like it at all. How is four cats the best? Why not five? Why not three?

[A]

Good point. Three isn't enough. Five's too many. It's. It. It's just the. I can't really describe why four is the perfect amount. We had two.

[B]

It didn't smell like piss enough. You're. You're flat. So you had to get two more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like now it smells like cat piss.

[A]

Yeah. Now. Now we're saturated to the one.

[B]

One good hot summer and you guys are going to be.

[A]

Yeah, nobody's going to want to talk to us. Yeah, it was.

[B]

I would never come over.

[A]

No.

[B]

Well, hey, maybe that's why you have four cats.

[A]

Yeah, Keep going. Crossing my.

[B]

Going over there.

[A]

Yeah. That's to really find out who our friends are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. For ages. I just didn't. I grew up with quite a few pets and I loved. I loved it. Then moved out and just had no interest in getting any pets at all, I think, for whatever reason. And. And then we went. Yeah. When we moved in, did you get.

[B]

Them all at once?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, you said you had two.

[A]

Yeah. So it's like a thing where, like, my partner was like, she was like, I do kind of need cats in the house. I was like, okay, that's fine. I've got no real reason why I don't want them.

[B]

You're ambivalent about cats.

[A]

I'd forgotten how much I loved having pets as a kid. And I wanted a little animal gang as a kid. I wanted to be like. I was always asking my parents, could we get more of this particular influence.

[B]

Of Winnie the Pooh?

[A]

Really? Winnie the Pooh?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Like, let's get. I really wanted, like, all the same kind of animal, but different breeds in a little gang. So I draw cartoons all the time as a kid, and it would always be, like, loads of, like, rabbits that all looked a bit different. Like, the rabbit gang. And showing my parents and being like, got these. Isn't it brilliant? So, like, I'd always want that. And I was here, actually. I was in New York, and my girlfriend contacted me saying, can we foster this cat until Christmas? It was November. And she's like, it's been. You know, there's a very sad story about the cat.

[B]

And, you know, from the jump, where that's gonna end up. No.

[A]

Immediately she sent me a photo of it. I was like. I turned to the tour manager, I was like, we're keeping this cat. There's no way. Of course there's no way. We're not keeping it. Yeah. So I just replied saying, let's just keep the cat. If someone's offering.

[B]

No, you just cut through.

[A]

If someone's offering us a free cat, let's have that cat.

[B]

What if they charged you £2 for it? Would you still. Would you say, no, that's too much.

[A]

I'd have to think of it too much. I'd sleep on it. And then the next day I'd say, okay, all right, all right.

[B]

What about £50?

[A]

You start haggling, £50 for the cat. But, yeah, we got that then we wanted to get it friend, because we didn't want it to be on its own when we were out of the house.

[B]

Oh, see, that's how the fucking. That's how it starts. Who needs a friend?

[A]

Exactly how it started.

[B]

Well, these two need another friend.

[A]

Yeah, well, that was me then, because I was like, okay. I was like, okay, we'll get two cats. And then I loved it so much. So I'm just hanging out with the cats all the time. I was like, this is better than anything. This is better than doing stand up. This is better than anything I've ever done. Just hanging out with these two Cats, they're hilarious. They're friends. It's the best thing watching two cats be friends with, like, different breeds. And then, like, I was the one who was like, after a year, it's like, we should get a third cat. And she's like, okay.

[B]

I mean, she's like, I'm losing respect for you.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

By the second.

[A]

Welcome to all of my friends. People have known me for years have lost respect for me over this. I've gone like, okay, so you're nuts now.

[B]

Four cats.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I was looking at all the cats on tour. I was on tour.

[B]

My partner said, and your girlfriend's like, they're low maintenance pets. But. But she's like, she's cool with it.

[A]

Yeah. She grew up with three or four cats at a time. All the time. So she was like, okay, I didn't think you'd want that, but if you want to get a third one, fine. And I looked at them, we narrowed it down to two, and I went, we're getting both of them. So it was me. Completely. For me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's been the best thing ever. Like, I love it so much. And everyone hates it. Everyone hates that. I love it. And anytime I tell people. Yeah, you tell people you never met before. Yeah. And they go, oh, so you're like, crazy. So you're like a crazy person.

[B]

I don't think you're crazy. That wasn't my response.

[A]

No.

[B]

I think it was like, well, we'd never met before, so we met once. Oh, we did.

[A]

You did my podcast. You're my food podcast.

[B]

Oh, son of a. I remember that. That was really fun.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, I'm sorry, James.

[A]

It's okay. It doesn't matter. Oh, I do.

[B]

I remember that. Yeah. Well, you know what? There's a place with poutine. No fried cheese curds in the. They just opened up the holiday market in Union Square over here. How long are you in town for?

[A]

Until the 29th.

[B]

Oh, nice. You'll get to enjoy our American Thanksgiving.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Well, the holiday market is pretty great, and they have a bunch of really good food stalls. And there's a place with deep fried cheese curds. I don't know if you've ever had that.

[A]

Yeah, I have. But, like, I know that you're a connoisseur from when you came on the pod. You had it as your dessert, which infuriated me.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

So I will absolutely have to. If.

[B]

I'm so sorry. That. And who was the partner?

[A]

You did the Ed Gamble.

[B]

Ed Gamble.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I enjoyed that.

[A]

That was fun. No, we really enjoyed having you on. You were right.

[B]

What was I gonna say?

[A]

Well.

[B]

Well, it was just about the cheese curds.

[A]

Yeah. But you're never dumping, but. Yeah, I know. Yeah. You won't say I was crazy for the cats, but definitely you're like, this is. This is a lack of respect now. This is good. The respect is going down, but that's fine. Like that. I've been in. Been over here now for like a couple of weeks. Two and a half weeks maybe. The amount that I miss those cats is insane. Like, I just. I just want to be back.

[B]

How was New York? I was in a bad place because I was away from my cats. I didn't really. I mean, I think I got a slice at one point. It was just me crying about my cats.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Walking sadly along.

[A]

Sometimes it is that. But here's the thing. I can take you. Like you say it. Your response is fine. When people do say to me. So sometimes get. People go, are you looking crazy? You're like a crazy cat person. That's insane. How the fuck are you doing that? Four cats. The only time that really annoys me is when it's someone who has even just one kid.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Then I'm like, you can't call me crazy for having four cats because, like, you can say that. You think like that. Whatever.

[B]

For the record, I don't think you're crazy.

[A]

Not exactly.

[B]

I think there's clearly something missing for your life.

[A]

Not anymore.

[B]

From your life.

[A]

Not anymore, David.

[B]

Yeah, I guess something substantial. Something.

[A]

There was something missing from my life. Four things missing. And now there's not.

[B]

Have you ever imagined them just getting together and becoming one bigger cat? Like, what would that be like? Like a little boy would be like having a little. Or a little girl.

[A]

Is this that they become one? They're not stood on each other's shoulders in a coat.

[B]

No, no. It's like a Transformer type thing. Like the four parts become one.

[A]

Imagine that. That sounds like a horror film to me. That sounds.

[B]

I think you should think about that and. And jerk off to it and. And see how that goes.

[A]

I'll try. I'll do whatever you tell me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you want us to leave the room or do you want to do it right here?

[A]

The C are rolling. I've got a special to promote. Okay. I got a special. Yeah.

[B]

Jimmy Carr can promote his one way. I'm his.

[A]

He. He thinks he's the only one who knows how to play the market. Watch this. Me beating off Over a mega cat.

[B]

Well, somebody's got to do it.

[A]

Yeah, someone. If not me, someone's going to do it.

[B]

And then I'll be like, please, please enjoy. Please enjoy my city. Unfortunately, because of global warming, it's unseasonably warm here, and it should be. It should be. What are we, mid November? It should be in the low 50s, you know, jumper weather. But, yeah, this is weird.

[A]

Yeah, it's pretty hot.

[B]

Yeah, it's not cool. Not good. I mean. But yeah. And I just, you know, this is. I love London and so does my wife, but I. New York City, to me is just the best, best city. I love it so much.

[A]

That's good. I mean, I think definitely that thing of, like. So right now, I love New York and I really like it, but there are things I don't like about it that I know that if I moved here, they would quickly not become an issue because I hated London. Oh, it's too noisy. Everyone's rude. Yeah, yeah, but like that.

[B]

I don't think everyone's rude. I will fight to the death, people say. I do. I think people are brusque. I think they're impatient.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I don't. I don't think people are necessarily rude here.

[A]

No, I've experienced quite a bit of rudeness, but.

[B]

Well, you're also. Which has a higher level of, you know, oh, I can't believe you voiced your displeasure about that thing.

[A]

But I would say I felt that way about London before I moved there. Now I love London, and so I always know that, like, however I feel about this, of a place that I don't live in, it's because I don't live there. And that if I did, I would adapt to it and I would find so many things that I loved about it.

[B]

And just out of curiosity, and not to. I'm not gonna be contrarian about it, but what is. Give me an example of rudeness.

[A]

I. Well, I. So, anything. Yeah, so I had. I went to see a friend and I couldn't figure out if it was their building or not. And I was outside looking at my phone, trying to figure it out, and someone from next door went, can I help you? And I went, yeah, I'm just trying to find my friend's house. I mean, well, have you tried phoning your friend? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm trying to figure out what their bonus. They said, yeah, well, you might want to phone them. And then they walked away.

[B]

That's kind of rude.

[A]

And I was like, that's kind of shitty. That's crazy that you've asked me.

[B]

Well, it's also the. But it's about the tone. I could say those exact things in a different tone and it makes sense, like, oh, yeah. Have you thought about phoning your friend?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But even then, I would say you are assuming that I am an idiot. That I would not have thought about.

[B]

That is kind of rude. Where does your friend live?

[A]

What section? I'm really bad at knowing that. I just follow the map and go to the place and then people go, like, where are you staying? Where do people live? But, like, also, just on the way here, there's a few things where you. Like. It's not rudeness, but it's like I said to my partner, I said, like, they're crazy here. The way that they took. Because I. My guy come to pick me up, so very kindly organized a car for me. And I went out and I hadn't got a text yet saying my car was here, but I was like, we should be here now.

[B]

Wait, we ordered a car for you.

[A]

It's very nice of them. Yeah. Or the pr. The PR people who are doing my press stuff here did. I don't think you guys did.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not paying for that.

[A]

You're not paying?

[B]

Where are you staying? What section town?

[A]

I'm right near Times Square.

[B]

Ew.

[A]

Yes. It's insane. Well. Cause I'm an idiot because I don't know what I'm doing.

[B]

Yeah, that's like, you know, staying in Piccadilly Circus.

[A]

Well, originally, I was meant to be here just for a couple of days, and I was doing something near there, so they booked me in there. And then they said. Then I said, let's extend it. Cause I'm gonna be in LA before this. And then they were like, do you wanna get a different hotel?

[B]

Oh, no. Oh, that's too bad.

[A]

It's all me. And everyone. Even people from. And by the way, this. I'm not a representation of, like, English people. Any comedian would have. From England made a different decision. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[B]

That's just a terrible idea.

[A]

I just don't like having to make.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Another choice. I went out, went up to the car that was there with its hazard lights on, and I just did a little wave at the window. The guy. And I said, are you here for James? And he went, yeah. Like that. And I was like. I thought, okay. I mean, I could have just got in. But then I got here to the building and I was looking at the things and trying to figure out where Headgum was.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Said to the guy at the desk, what floor is Headgum on? And he went, the eighth floor.

[B]

Come on, man. Come on.

[A]

And I said to Hannah, come on, come on. They're wild here.

[B]

Everybody reacted the same. They all go, no.

[A]

Why are you asking that?

[B]

No.

[A]

Everyone here reacts like, why are you talking to me? That's what. That's my experience.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

The rudest. But this isn't. But I'm not putting this on you guys at all. At all. This isn't New York.

[B]

First of all, I would imagine half the people you've had a relationship with or an interaction with are not even from New York or America.

[A]

Sure, sure, sure. Well, this guy, I'm about to tell you, definitely was. But also, this is not. You will see why this is not a. I don't. I wouldn't have this represent New York at all. I was trying to find a taco place the other side of Times Square, where I live. I live in Times Square.

[B]

Fantastic.

[A]

And I was walking across, and there was one of those preacher guys with a mic.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Telling people about, you know, hell and stuff. Mm. This is all on me, really. So stupid. So I can't find it, this place that I'm going to. And I'm getting a bit discombobulated, and it's busy. And then he's right next to me there doing his stuff. And he paused for a bit, and I thought, he'll probably. He's here all the time. So I said to him, could you help me? I'm trying to find this taco place. And he said in a very thick New York accent that I won't attempt. I'm not from here. But into his mic still, I'm not from here. I don't know where I could have.

[B]

Looked at what I would do.

[A]

And I knew that he was lying, but I went. And also because I was so. I was, like, raised Christian and don't believe it anymore. So I. I think when a Christian person acts non. Unchristian, I get more angry at them than.

[B]

That's 98% of Christians.

[A]

Yeah. So I. You know, because I've been disillusioned by it and all of that. So then I get. So he said, I'm not from here. I don't know. I knew he was lying and didn't want to help me. So I went, oh, so you. I mean, you should never do this. But I went, so you don't. You don't want to help me? To the guy yeah. And then he went, where do you want to go? And then by now I was like disproportionately angry because he, you know, it's all my childhood and everything and years. And so I was like, forget it. And then as I'm walking away into the mic, he did a whole monologue about me and how I was going to hell and how he said. This guy, he said he was a stupid idiot. Stupid idiot. Didn't know my way around New York.

[B]

Can I, can I, yeah. Suggest that maybe he gets fucked with all the time and he thought you were going to fuck with him?

[A]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. He probably.

[B]

Oh, you know what I mean, I'm.

[A]

Not really blaming him that much for all this, but like, the monologue that I got as I was walking away was something else.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

It was amazing. It was, he's going to hell and I'm gonna be laughing at him from heaven. He's a stupid fucking idiot. And then I heard someone else shout amen. A different person.

[B]

They could also be just winding him up or whatever.

[A]

They could have been winding him up. It's funny.

[B]

Well, okay, first of all, get the fuck out of Times Square. Don't eat your tacos in Times Square neighborhood. Go. Well, walk down, take the subway, whatever. Don't. Don't eat there. Don't. Do you, do you drink?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Okay, so you should go to the East Village, Lower east side, do some day drinking, walk around. Is your girlfriend here?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Oh, you guys are going to have fun. Just get out of Times Square and don't go to Hudson Yards either. That's not. No, it's not now. But do come to Brooklyn. Brooklyn's awesome. That's where I live.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah, I went there. Yeah, I've got some friends who live there.

[B]

Okay. James Acaster with the special on HBO on November 23rd.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Thank you very much for coming down. I always end every episode with a question from my daughter, who is seven, and you feel free to answer this in any way. Sure you want. Okay. So your question from a seven year old, James A. Castor, who was the first person to be born on earth.

[A]

Has your daughter come up with this question knowing it was me who was going to answer it? Or have you got questions from your daughter?

[B]

No.

[A]

Wow. When do you get these questions?

[B]

Do you assume that my 7 year old daughter knows who you are?

[A]

No, but I would assume you would at least say today on the podcast there's this English comedian coming on. What question have you got for it, you know, she knows roughly the context, but yeah, I mean, she doesn't know who I am. Yeah, yeah, that could help her.

[B]

I don't think so. I compile English people.

[A]

Pretty smart.

[B]

You know, I'm. I mean, she knows that I'm first generation American. You know, my dad's from Lee. I had a shitty dad, so she hates the English for me, so. That's not true. That's not true. You know, we're trying. We're trying to. We planned my European tour and UK tour around my daughter's spring break, you know, and they. I think they have two weeks off in, In April. And anyway, we. I booked it so that my wife, who also loves London and we lived there for quite a bit and so we could bring Marlo there and she. This is the second time this happened and we're, you know, try to present it very. We're excited and all this stuff. And she wants to go to Atlanta and we're like. Because we tried to get her to go to Yellowstone last year and we're showing her pictures and the bison are cavia. It's gonna be beautiful. I'm going to Atlanta. Like, what. Which is where I'm from and my family is. And I know why, because she. It's a really. My sister and sister in law and my mom live in this cul de sac. And you know, a lot of Atlanta proper is suburban. Feels suburban and it's really safe. And she hasn't experienced that here in the city where you can just run around when the light, you know, the sun's gone down. And she. There are all the kids are boys and she, you know, keeps up with them and she'll get. Scrape her knees and get right back up and they, you know, play hard and. And they're all super polite southern boys and. And they're like, man, Marlo is. Marlo is saucy or spicy, whatever they said, you know, like, yeah, she's. She's from Brooklyn, so. And so I know why she likes it and she just wants. But the idea. Because we're back there like three or four times a year anyway, and the idea of like, what, we have to go to Atlanta? Go to London? No, I want to go to Atlanta.

[A]

I do like it. I get it. I get why she would like that.

[B]

Yeah, I do too. I do too. And I don't want to take that away from her. I mean, she really, really, really loves it and she doesn't get that opportunity here.

[A]

So when she asks that kind of question, do you Write them all down and then you come and ask us. Or are you tempted to answer them?

[B]

No, no. It started. I'm not exactly sure how it started, but I think I asked. It was an idea I had before I even started the podcast. And so I asked her probably when she was six. At that point. I want to ask questions on the podcast of my guests, and. And so I need a bunch of questions. And then she gave me a couple of them, and then all the rest of them were like, oh, I have a question for your podcast. Okay, what is it? Or she'd say, ask me a question. That she'd go, that's a good question for the podcast. And I go, yeah, you're right. So that one came up, I think, specifically when I said, I need some more questions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who was the first person to be born on Earth?

[A]

To be born on Earth? I mean, it's hard to think of a answer that again.

[B]

You can answer in any way you see.

[A]

Well, look, I mean, obviously it'd be interesting to know at what point we were people in the evil. I'm not a. I'm not across the science enough to know at what point it was officially people. There must have been a first person born. But does that mean that the mother was not a person? Was still at that point in the evolution where they were being called something else?

[B]

Well, there's Homo sapiens, which is us, and then there was cross breeding. They now say, oh, I never thought of that.

[A]

Do you call it crossbreeding when you have sex?

[B]

No, I don't. The Neanderthals.

[A]

Neanderthals. And then us.

[B]

Well, Neanderthals are. Even though they're distinct. There was cross breeding between Homo sapiens and Neanderthals, but the Homo sapiens came from somewhere. I read the fucking book, too, and I can't remember. Did you read Homo sapiens?

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Oh, it's great. It gets really super dry towards the latter half, but it's.

[A]

My dad was a science teacher, and it meant that I didn't listen to any science. Sure. Awful.

[B]

It's. It's an interesting book.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But obviously I didn't retain a whole lot, so.

[A]

I mean, the first Truman from the Truman Show.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Say that Truman from the Truman show.

[A]

Was the first person born.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

On Earth, But.

[B]

But he's clearly younger than a lot of the viewers.

[A]

Not in his world. The viewers aren't in his world. In his Earth. In Truman show world.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I will let you mention Carrie.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm building a Birdhouse.

[B]

Yep. That's me. He's Chris. That was. That was me.

[A]

Okay. I am building a birdhouse.

[B]

Uncanny. Close your eyes and you'll think it's me.

[A]

It's a good line.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a funny line. You gotta be happy with that.

[B]

I'm very happy. It was top 20 lines that I've said.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was it rift? I don't know.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I don't know. But a treat to be a part of that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Experience, for sure. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

[A]

What a film.

[B]

What a film. Yeah.

[A]

What a film. Do you ever. How. If I was in Eternal Sunshine, the Spotless Mind, I'd think about that once a week.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do you think about it once a week? Once a week. Do you go. I don't. Social child's plan.

[B]

No, I don't.

[A]

What are you doing? Well, you've got to be thinking.

[B]

Currently, I'm out of thinking it. Every now and again, I'm thinking, how.

[A]

Often do you think it to yourself?

[B]

I'm gonna say once a year on Armistice Day.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a good day to do it.

[B]

Yeah. It's on my calendar. I mark it.

[A]

I'll be thinking, anytime I felt. I. You know, we've covered it a lot in this conversation, but anytime I'd feel low on confidence in myself as a performer and stuff, I'd think to myself, yeah, I'll take Eyes in the Townsend. It's a good film.

[B]

I don't have that issue.

[A]

I think, you know, the lack of confidence.

[B]

I'm pretty confident in my abilities. Yeah.

[A]

In Wasted on your part. Wasted on you. That part should have been gone to someone not as confident.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then they would think to themselves, shit, I would think, once a week, I'm building a birdhouse.

[B]

Yeah. I don't. I mean, I have it on a loop that's playing in my bedroom.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But outside of that, not really, you know.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And I also took a full page out in Variety this year at great expense. Full page that has a picture. It's a photo of me from the set. And then the line. And then it says, introducing David Cross. For your consideration, Best Supporting Actor 2001. Or whatever it was.

[A]

Should have got it. Should have got it. Who else won?

[B]

That's actually a funny idea. I should do that. It's probably too expensive, but just take an hat out. Full dad out in Variety.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Saying, you know, with the thing for your consideration. Oscars 2011.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. You should do it. They should all I mean, I think that's how they should do the Oscars anyway. It should be, you know, let it cook for a few years. See the ones that really.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Stand the test of time.

[B]

Yeah. All right, James.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm going to head home.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, fair enough.

[B]

Thank you for coming down.

[A]

Thank you. David's probably going.

[C]

Thank you, David Senses Working Overtime is a Headgum podcast created and hosted by me, David Cross. The show is edited by Katie Skelton and engineered by Nicole Lyons with supervising producer Emma Foley. Thanks to Demi Druchin for our show art and Mark Rivers for our theme song. For more podcasts by headgum, visit headgum.com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and maybe we'll read it on a future episode.

[B]

I'm not gonna do that.

[C]

Thanks for listening.

[A]

That was a Headgun podcast.