Stephen Colbert

Summary

Podcast Title: Senses Working Overtime with David Cross
Episode: Stephen Colbert
Release Date: March 20, 2025
Host/Author: Headgum

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Senses Working Overtime with David Cross, professional talker and comedian David Cross sits down with fellow comedian and television host Stephen Colbert. The conversation is a delightful blend of humor, personal anecdotes, reflections on the entertainment industry, and light-hearted banter, all woven seamlessly without following a strict linear path.

---

Early Encounters and Career Reflections

Meeting at Carvey's and Early Improv Days
David Cross and Stephen Colbert reminisce about their initial meeting while working on Dennis Miller Live and their time in the Chicago comedy scene. They discuss early improv groups and the challenges of breaking into the industry.

• Stephen Colbert (05:07): "How did we know each other well enough to go to dinner together?"
• David Cross (26:17): "We hit it off instantly. You're very nice and affable."

Struggles in Show Business
Both comedians share stories about their auditions and the struggles of landing roles, highlighting the unpredictability and resilience required in the entertainment world.

• Stephen Colbert (39:01): "I auditioned for Ally McBeal and Dharma and Greg, but nothing stuck."

---

Behind the Scenes of Late-Night Television

Stories from Set and Unscripted Moments
Stephen delves into his experiences on his late-night show, recounting instances where his in-character antics almost led to real confrontations with guests.

• Stephen Colbert (17:52): "I said, don't ever convince someone to stay. I want their real reaction."
• David Cross (18:48): "That's impressive. These moments shape the authenticity of live television."

Unique Interviews and Unexpected Events
The duo discusses memorable interviews, including the mishaps with guests like Senator Bob Kerry and representatives from DC, emphasizing the fine line between scripted entertainment and genuine interaction.

• Stephen Colbert (18:35): "My guest took off his mic and walked out. I hoped he'd realize I was kidding."

---

Cultural References and Shared Humor

Mutual Appreciation for Media and Literature
David and Stephen engage in a playful debate about classic films like The Conversation and the influences of French filmmakers on American directors. They also touch upon satirical publications like The Onion and its unique take on news.

• Stephen Colbert (12:36): "I've been thinking about French filmmakers because I saw The Conversation."
• David Cross (30:55): "The Onion's approach is brilliant because they present stories without traditional jokes."

Shared Love for Comedy and Parody
They exchange fond memories of comedy parodies, including Mad Magazine's takes on Star Trek and their own experiences being featured or referenced in such works.

• Stephen Colbert (54:38): "It was me and John getting made fun of. I loved it."
• David Cross (55:27): "Having Al Hirschfeld draw me would have been a marker of success."

---

Personal Anecdotes and Light-Hearted Banter

Improv Adventures and Creative Projects
Stephen shares his ambitious yet humorous ideas for performances, such as watching all Fast and Furious movies in a storefront, highlighting his commitment to understanding American culture through media.

• Stephen Colbert (46:42): "I want to understand my country by watching all the Fast and Furious movies."
• David Cross (48:24): "David Blaine did something similar in London, but with magic."

Family and Personal Life
David opens up about his family dynamics, including interactions with his daughter and the humorous challenges of parenting, while Stephen humorously navigates discussions about his production team and personal relationships.

• David Cross (55:27): "My wife has something I'm jealous of. It's the same thing—she was in Mad Magazine."
• Stephen Colbert (51:35): "She’s the head of my production company, Carrie Byleck."

---

Humorous Misunderstandings and Playful Exchanges

Language and Cultural Missteps
The conversation takes a comedic turn as they playfully misinterpret words and cultural references, showcasing their sharp wit and ability to find humor in misunderstandings.

• Stephen Colbert (14:26): "It actually means renowned mariner. But it doesn't mean that because I'm not French."
• David Cross (72:41): "Wisconsin's tricameral legislature is just like the Secret's intentions."

Tarot, Astrology, and Skepticism
Stephen expresses skepticism about tarot and astrology, leading to a humorous debate about the validity and impact of these practices.

• Stephen Colbert (06:49): "Tarot is very powerful, but the images are archetypal and meaningless."
• David Cross (06:35): "Is it dangerous to get into tarot?"

---

Closing Thoughts and Future Collaborations

Reflections on the Podcast Format
David Cross discusses his original vision for the podcast as a platform for guests to share their sensory experiences, while Stephen muses about the organic, unstructured flow of their conversation.

• David Cross (16:16): "I've tried to tell this story on your show, but you just don't get to it."
• Stephen Colbert (82:48): "This podcast says to me, I just don't see that having dinner with you would work."

Potential for Future Episodes and Specials
They joke about including their unscripted moments in future specials and the possibility of sharing more personal stories, hinting at continued collaboration and mutual respect.

• Stephen Colbert (77:58): "The story I just told is extra stuff. It can go into a special."
• David Cross (78:12): "Let's not call it a special. Let's call it something else. Special is just sort of a random word."

---

Notable Quotes

• Stephen Colbert (17:52): "I want their real reaction."
• David Cross (27:05): "I didn't believe people were that mad by what happened on your show."
• Stephen Colbert (53:16): "Tarot is too powerful."
• David Cross (55:27): "One of my markers for success was if Al Hirschfeld drew me."

---

Conclusion

This episode of Senses Working Overtime with David Cross offers listeners a rich tapestry of humor, personal insights, and candid reflections from two seasoned comedians. Stephen Colbert's sharp wit and David Cross's thoughtful banter create an engaging dialogue that is both entertaining and enlightening, providing a glimpse into the minds of two influential figures in the world of comedy and television.

---

For more episodes and to explore a variety of conversations, visit Headgum or your favorite podcast platform.

Transcript

[Stephen Colbert]

This is a headgum podcast. I sit there.

[David Cross]

Yes, you can. Carrie. You can sit either of these, really.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay, great. I don't want to be.

[David Cross]

If you insist being here. I. Well, I mean, I came all the way. I don't insist.

[Stephen Colbert]

You want me to go?

[David Cross]

I mean, feel. No. You need your mommy here. No, he doesn't. Well, you need your son here. I guess that's how this works.

[Stephen Colbert]

Whatever you want, dude.

[David Cross]

Yeah, I can leave.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm on your show. Whatever you want to do. Would you like her to listen out there?

[David Cross]

No, it's. You're fine. I've had a couple people in here who I don't know, and I go. They're like, you know, I'm not gonna say.

[Stephen Colbert]

I just thought it would be fun to see.

[David Cross]

I mean, it does air. Not air, but it streams on. You can see it. We're good. You can stay.

[Stephen Colbert]

We put these on.

[David Cross]

No, I don't. You can if you'd like.

[Stephen Colbert]

No.

[David Cross]

Well, it's about comfort and style, Chris. This seems a little low to me. Is this not too low, but is it okay for you? Just see, also, it's kind of warm in here. Whoa, whoa. Why is it doing this? Thanks for coming down. Or across, right? You're in Jersey.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, down, down, down from. You have 53rd streaks. I have a show today.

[David Cross]

You have a show?

[Stephen Colbert]

I have a show.

[David Cross]

I was just. I was googling. I try not to know anything about the guests when they come in. Yeah, and I have a show. You have a show on late night television? Yeah, like old time television.

[Stephen Colbert]

People mostly watch it on YouTube, but. Yeah.

[David Cross]

Yeah, but it's. It is like. It's the kind of thing. This is.

[Stephen Colbert]

How's this? Is this good?

[David Cross]

Pop? That looks like it's perfect. This is.

[Stephen Colbert]

I did myself a production company. Hey, what's up?

[David Cross]

And you produce after midnight. Okay. It doesn't. I don't know what your work hours are, but you produce too far. Here. Move the table.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, no, seriously, this is good, right? We're good. Okay, we're good. Produce show four nights a week.

[David Cross]

Lord of the Rings pinball machines.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, that's kind of for fun.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. My. What? I. I do two things on the weekends. I refurbish old Lord of the Rings. I mean, I like to say I make them, I repaint them, but I also. I race some. I race dirt track.

[David Cross]

You like bmx?

[Stephen Colbert]

No, I have a rebuilt Shelby Cobra and we just. A couple of us race on old muscle cars on the weekends.

[David Cross]

Oh, no shit.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. GTOs. Stuff like that.

[David Cross]

Okay. You don't have to be a dick about it, but is it okay if.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm lying about all of that?

[David Cross]

Yeah, sure. GTO stands for General Trade.

[Stephen Colbert]

Get the out.

[David Cross]

Get the out. It sounds like they missed a letter.

[Stephen Colbert]

It was German. You always put the. He killed himself. He jumped the building off.

[David Cross]

I see.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's always. That's how Germans do it.

[David Cross]

So that's. So that's a. That's where they got the inspiration for Yoda.

[Stephen Colbert]

Please tell me we're rolling on all of this.

[David Cross]

Yeah. Yeah. I never roll.

[Stephen Colbert]

Full magic.

[David Cross]

Yeah. Now, Stephen, we've never done that before.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, I'm sorry. That's so hot. I didn't think.

[David Cross]

Did you want a cold?

[Stephen Colbert]

No, I just think it was hotter than I thought it would be.

[David Cross]

Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Please. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[David Cross]

Chris.

[Stephen Colbert]

Action.

[David Cross]

Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

Action.

[David Cross]

We're. Stay seated.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wait a second.

[David Cross]

I'm taking this off.

[Stephen Colbert]

You're too hot.

[David Cross]

Yeah, it is really hot.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm sorry about that. I think the AC is just on the fritz.

[David Cross]

Well, it is close.

[Stephen Colbert]

Not spring yet. There's no reason there should be.

[David Cross]

I say spring has sprung. It was a beautiful day today. Walking, I took. You know, the way I get here is the subway to Union Square. The farmer's market's out there, and it was.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is the farmers market happening right now?

[David Cross]

Yeah. In fact, I don't know where my bag is, but it's. It's got a dozen eggs in there. Farm fresh, some with little feathers on them.

[Stephen Colbert]

No.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Really?

[David Cross]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

They don't even take the feathers off.

[David Cross]

They put them on. They glue. They glue them right on. It's like a craft project. No, but it came right from the hen's vagina.

[Stephen Colbert]

Cloaca.

[David Cross]

Yeah. Cloaca. Yes. Thank you. Wait, where did I just learn that? Wait. Cloacae.

[Stephen Colbert]

Beautiful name. If I ever had a daughter.

[David Cross]

Have you thought about adopting? Just for the name?

[Stephen Colbert]

Just for the name, yeah. Also, I wanted to name a child Chlorine.

[David Cross]

Chlorine.

[Stephen Colbert]

I thought that would be a beautiful girl's name. Chlorine.

[David Cross]

For some reason, my daughter, we got two fish I got a couple years ago for her birthday, she said she wanted fish, and I thought, oh, this is a great way to teach her responsibility, you know, Teach her about death. I got that covered. That's all done. I take her for her birthday, I take her to the Holocaust Museum every year.

[Stephen Colbert]

Like, just, like slices of pizza on a plastic tablecloth, and then back out. Back out to the ball pit.

[David Cross]

No, I'm not in there with her. I just put her in. I say, let her out in three hours. Let her figure this stuff out. It's a good way because she sort of. I've been doing it for a while.

[Stephen Colbert]

How old is she now?

[David Cross]

She's eight. She just turned eight a couple weeks ago. So I took her to the apartheid museum in Johannesburg, which is rough.

[Stephen Colbert]

And you finish every family trip by saying, and now why do bad things happen to good people?

[David Cross]

Yeah. And then I flip a coin like that.

[Stephen Colbert]

The stars blindly run.

[David Cross]

And then I do her tarot. I read her tarot.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's dangerous getting involved in tarot.

[David Cross]

Is it?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes.

[David Cross]

Are you saying that from like a Christian based philosophy?

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm saying that as a. As a human, why is it dangerous.

[David Cross]

To get into tarot?

[Stephen Colbert]

Tarot is very powerful.

[David Cross]

Oh, you're saying if you don't harness the power, it could. You can't. A mortal can't. I don't know. I'm not sure.

[Stephen Colbert]

You can't harness the power of tarot because what's powerful about tarot is the images are archetypal images, right? And you will respond to them. They're meaningless in terms of like, predicting the future or what kind of person you are. It has no connection at all.

[David Cross]

No, that's not true.

[Stephen Colbert]

Worse than astrology. But the thing is, is that it.

[David Cross]

Wait, you don't like astrology either?

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't dislike astrology, just that it has no meaning. But.

[David Cross]

Wow. Now.

[Stephen Colbert]

But the images in the tarot card are so powerful that I never want my tarot cast because I'll invest it with meaning. Do you know what I mean? I won't have any power.

[David Cross]

Well, I think that's the entire point of it.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, no, no. People believe it has meaning, but if.

[David Cross]

You invest it with meaning, then it has meaning.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, it's external to you. It has meaning external to you, and you're to interpret it and see what that meaning has to do with your life when in fact you're investing all the meaning in there yourself. And you can be. You. You can sort of be trapped by the power of these images when in fact they have nothing to do with your life.

[David Cross]

You mean if you're susceptible and. Or gullible.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, I don't even know about that. I'm pretty skeptical about the whole thing, but. Susceptible and skeptical.

[David Cross]

That was the name of your comedy team, right?

[Stephen Colbert]

Susceptible and skeptical. Yeah, yeah.

[David Cross]

Wait, but if you.

[Stephen Colbert]

It was actually Contents Under Pressure. That was the name of Mike.

[David Cross]

Was it really third rail?

[Stephen Colbert]

Third rail. Comedy In Chicago. That was.

[David Cross]

I like it, actually.

[Stephen Colbert]

My. You want to really know the name of my. My improv group when I was in Chicago.

[David Cross]

I think Contents Under Pressure is pretty good.

[Stephen Colbert]

There was Contents Under Pressure and also Third Rail was actually another real one. The no Fun Mud Piranhas.

[David Cross]

The no Fun Mud Piranhas.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's the name of it.

[David Cross]

Terrible name.

[Stephen Colbert]

It was. But when we were forming the group, we were so enamored with the. Yes. And that.

[David Cross]

Oh, boy, now that's more dangerous than tarot, I think. Yes. And will send you down a really bad track.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, it's dangerous. Saying yes to things will get you in a lot of trouble. You know, it's adventurous to say yes. Improv, especially if you get into it young and if you're sort of a lost person, which I certainly was. It turns into a philosophy. It turns into an entire worldview. Well, that's part of all kinds.

[David Cross]

That's part of the knock on. The whole impromptu thing.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you started playing it in every aspect of your life and then that's chaos.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Fruitful chaos. A lot comes of it.

[David Cross]

Well, there's a movie called yes, where Jim Carrey spent a month, I believe, saying. Not saying no. That philosophy.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is it a documentary?

[David Cross]

Yeah, it's like a bio. Like a. What do you call it when it's like half doc. It's. The guy did Touching the Void where it's dramatized. Doc.

[Stephen Colbert]

A drama doctory.

[David Cross]

A drama doctory? Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, that's a two humped camel.

[David Cross]

That's a two humped camel.

[Stephen Colbert]

Drama doctory.

[David Cross]

It's like. Like Touching the Void or where they. The.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's a dramatization, but with a doc. It's a doc, but it's got some scenes that are acted.

[David Cross]

Yeah. Because they didn't have cameras, you know, at the.

[Stephen Colbert]

So part of it's true and part of it's lying, is what you're saying.

[David Cross]

Because all film is like. Godard told us that every edit is a lie.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is that what Godard said to you?

[David Cross]

That's what he said to me. Yeah. And then he said, extra mayo, please, if you've. If that's okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

You know, I've been thinking about French filmmakers this weekend.

[David Cross]

Oh.

[Stephen Colbert]

Because I saw.

[David Cross]

Oh, right, It's March.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. It's French Filmmaker month.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. Used to be Women's History Month, and they switched it over to French filmmakers.

[David Cross]

Yeah, that'll. It'll. Yeah, that'll go too.

[Stephen Colbert]

The. I saw the conversation with Hackman. You know, Gene Hackman. We Just found out. Died in a very upsetting way.

[David Cross]

Spoiler alert.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. You're going to send this podcast into the past. Is this being injected via wormhole to a period of time when he was still alive?

[David Cross]

People might not know, and people might be.

[Stephen Colbert]

Everyone knows that Gene Hackman's dead.

[David Cross]

I don't.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's a really. Come on.

[David Cross]

I don't know about that. I bet I could call my little sister. How old is she? Well, 50 something.

[Stephen Colbert]

Can you call her right now?

[David Cross]

I'll call her.

[Stephen Colbert]

Call her right now and say. All right, just say, is there anything you know about Gene Hackman?

[David Cross]

I will call.

[Stephen Colbert]

News.

[David Cross]

I will call.

[Stephen Colbert]

How can we do this in a Vega that won't give away that he's dead?

[David Cross]

She'll either know it or not.

[Stephen Colbert]

Do you know anything about Gene Hackman? What do you know about Gene Hackman right now? Maybe. How about that way anyway?

[David Cross]

I mean, I never call her.

[Stephen Colbert]

How long has it been since you've called her?

[David Cross]

Oh, I mean, maybe there's a thing on here. Wait, that's WhatsApp. Oh, no, here we go. All right, I'll put it on speaker.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is this, like, months since you've talked to her?

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm glad I could facilitate this.

[David Cross]

Hey, Julie, real quick. I'm doing this podcast or recording it now, and just. I'm gonna put this as simply as possible. What do you know about Gene Hackman, the actor? Oh, not very much. Okay, any. No news or anything? Well, I mean, I know what, that they found him and his wife and his pet, you know, all day. All right, this conversation's over.

[Stephen Colbert]

I accept your apology.

[David Cross]

Okay. All right.

[Stephen Colbert]

So I've been thinking about Gene Hackman. A lot of people have been watching, you know, Gene Hackman movies. This beloved actor has passed in unusual circumstances. So I watched the Conversation this weekend, which I'd never seen. I thought I'd seen it because I'd seen so many clips.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

But I watched the Conversation. You ever seen it?

[David Cross]

I have, yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's incredibly anxiety inducing.

[David Cross]

Yes. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And very sad, very brilliant. But I kept on thinking, like, oh, I think this is an influence of, like, you know, Truffaut and Godard and people like that. I'm feeling that in Coppola's work, in that it seems French.

[David Cross]

It was an influence on. On.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, that he was influenced by the French, probably.

[David Cross]

Yeah. I think. Well, they all had a big love of Truffaut, you know, that whole Spielberg, Lucas, Coppola. There are a couple others in that group. Farrelly brothers who Else was hanging out.

[Stephen Colbert]

In the Larry the Cable Guy.

[David Cross]

Larry Flint and Larry the Cable Guy were all influenced by Truffaut. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Fart.

[David Cross]

And you know Truffaut was in Close Encounters.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes.

[David Cross]

As a.

[Stephen Colbert]

Like, he played the devil's tower.

[David Cross]

He played the devil's tower. That's right. Yeah. In the mashed potato version. Not the actual. He's not that tall.

[Stephen Colbert]

He's small. That was actually, actually Truffle's head underneath all those mashed potatoes with the.

[David Cross]

It's kind of like how they did the. When they firsted out the alien. And Alien was influenced by Cocteau.

[Stephen Colbert]

Can you say cocktail?

[David Cross]

Do you want to bleep out the toe part?

[Stephen Colbert]

Sure.

[David Cross]

Okay. Because it means something different in French. What is. And Colbert in French is. The translation is.

[Stephen Colbert]

It actually means renowned mariner. But it doesn't mean that because I'm not French. That's all a lie.

[David Cross]

Why do you keep subverting these little.

[Stephen Colbert]

But it's true. It's not. What else have I subverted, friend?

[David Cross]

Oh, you were like, oh, is that. That's a lie. The GTO thing, the dirt thing is that. Well, lie. But just don't. Don't go, oh, that was a lie.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, but. But the Colbert thing is. It's kind of a true lie is because we thought the. The family name was pronounced Colbert.

[David Cross]

Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

Because the story was that. That we. The. The old. The family back in Illinois, in southern Illinois, back in Alton, said that they were French. Like, why would they say they were French? They were like dirt poor farmers who were horse thieves and stuff like that. They had a rough life. Like, why would it even matter to them that they were French? And so I said, oh, it must be French. It turns out I'm 100% Irish and it's Colbert. Colbert, Colbert. They would say.

[David Cross]

So in Gaelic. What would that mean?

[Stephen Colbert]

I haven't the slightest idea.

[David Cross]

Yeah, okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

I speak American, but Gaelic is actually Scottish. Irish people speak Irish.

[David Cross]

Oh, am I thinking of Celtic? No, I thought Gaelic.

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't know what you're thinking of.

[David Cross]

I thought Gaelic was Irish.

[Stephen Colbert]

A lot of people do that. But Gaelic is Scottish.

[David Cross]

And are the Irish aware of this? Because they might be.

[Stephen Colbert]

We're trying to figure out how to break it to them.

[David Cross]

Okay. Yeah, it'd be awesome.

[Stephen Colbert]

There's so many. You know, they've already printed up the.

[David Cross]

The money. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

They've printed up all the tourist stuff saying, hey, it's all Gaelic.

[David Cross]

So I'm. Unless this is another one of your lies. I'm. I Just learned something.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm not actually French, but now I'm stuck with the pronunciation.

[David Cross]

Not that part that Gaelic is Scottish.

[Stephen Colbert]

Than me. That's more interesting.

[David Cross]

I didn't qualify it on a level of what's interesting to me.

[Stephen Colbert]

All right.

[David Cross]

I do. Because I have tried to tell this story on your show whenever I've done your show and I've done it a.

[Stephen Colbert]

Bunch and I prevent you.

[David Cross]

No, no, no. We just never get to it. It's one of those things I'm sure you've experienced where I will point out.

[Stephen Colbert]

To the audience, if you go watch the interviews that I've done with David on my show, they're very much like this. Yes, there is a plan. You know, people never achieved.

[David Cross]

People really believed the.

[Stephen Colbert]

That you got mad and left.

[David Cross]

That I got mad and left.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's good.

[David Cross]

Oh, it's great. It's just. I can't believe people are that like you thought that was. I really got upset by whatever that dumb thing was that I. I don't remember and I didn't, you know, clear it with you or anything. I just did it and you went with it. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

But I would love a guest to really get up and leave.

[David Cross]

That'd be pretty.

[Stephen Colbert]

I've come close to people getting up, taking off the mic and walking away. Really never actually have.

[David Cross]

Like who.

[Stephen Colbert]

Who was. Who's the. Who's the D.C. rep? She was the D.C. rep for years. Three names. Congresswoman. Ton of fun. She was the rep for dc. Like the non voting rep for dc.

[David Cross]

Yeah, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

She. She got so mad at my character that she was went to take off the mic, walk away in an interview I was doing with her. And my, my producers, my crew went, no, no, please sit down. And after it was over, I said, don't ever, ever convince someone to stay.

[David Cross]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Please never do that again.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

All I want is what their real reaction is. And so. And then also Senator Bob Kerry got really mad at me because it was pretty early on in the old show and he arrived late, so I didn't have a chance to tell him, like, hey, I'm doing this in character and he's an idiot.

[David Cross]

And these were like the pre taped interviews.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, this one pre tape was the woman. It was the woman. Yeah. And then Bob Carey was in front of the audience, it was live. And he got some. He was on the 911 Commission. And I questioned some aspect of the finding of the 911 Commission Conspiracy theory I have in my head, which would be completely acceptable now and polite company. And he, his Head snapped around on a swivel.

[David Cross]

Fuel can't melt steel very much like that.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yep.

[David Cross]

And say it like that, though.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, exactly. His head snapped around. He goes, what the hell are you talking about? But I was in character. I couldn't explain to him what I was talking about. And I never got a chance to explain what I'm talking about because he was so mad that the minute the camera cut, he took off his mic, threw it on the table, and walked out.

[David Cross]

Wow.

[Stephen Colbert]

So I was like, oh, hopefully someday he'll figure out that I was just kidding.

[David Cross]

Did. Do they not keep a camera rolling that they could show him leaving? Or is that like.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, no. I mean, not then. Cameras never stop rolling now, right? On this show.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Because sometimes the. Something great will happen in the commercial break. Sure. And I'll say, can we just slip that into the interview? I'll tell the guy. I won't say, like, yeah. Or whoever the guest is, I won't say. I won't trick him. But I'll go like, hey, that was really special. I'm sure we can find a way for that just to fit into the interview. And mostly they go, yeah, that's fine.

[David Cross]

Yeah, go. Going way back to what I was starting to say. I've always wanted to tell this story.

[Stephen Colbert]

I stopped you from telling it.

[David Cross]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Stephen Colbert]

But it really seems like I'm the problem.

[David Cross]

No, because they. They. You know, you do these pre interviews, and it's like a half hour, 40 minutes. You're talking to the producer, the talent produce coordinator, and. And, you know, you tell these stories and the thing. Something. An anecdote about what you're promoting or blah, blah, blah. And I've always. And I've done your show, like, I don't know, 11 times, something like.

[Stephen Colbert]

Something like that.

[David Cross]

Many times, Many times, Many times. And I've always wanted to tell this, but you just don't get to it. Because then they'll call you back, like, a couple days later and go, hey, so we ran everything, and Stephen really wants you to mention this and this and this and this. And I'm like, okay, they lied to you.

[Stephen Colbert]

By the way, I don't know about your pre interview until minutes before I go to rehearsal.

[David Cross]

Steven. Really, like this? He wants you to bring up the thing about you broke your foot.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, well, sure. Why should you bring 20 bucks?

[David Cross]

He wants you to do your magic.

[Stephen Colbert]

He wants you to buy my daughter's Girl Scout cookies.

[David Cross]

And so I've. You know, this story is. I've always intended to tell it. But. And now that I'm saying this, I realize it's a visual. So you might have. Yeah, you might have to go to the YouTube thing, but it's one of my favorite Stephen Colbert memories. I have to. I have two early, early, early ones and. But you never get to it because you're just fucking around and you barely even get to promote the thing you're there for. At least in my case because we're all just having a good time. But so we. This is a long time. I think this is before. I'm pretty sure it was before Colbert Report too.

[Stephen Colbert]

I have a feeling why you never get to the story because this ramp up is killing me. This is edging me. You're. You're edging me.

[David Cross]

It's a tantric, a safe order for.

[Stephen Colbert]

This, for this story. Pumpkin patch, pumpkin pie. No, that's the opposite.

[David Cross]

That's my non safe word.

[Stephen Colbert]

Your danger word.

[David Cross]

Yeah. Who or what taught you about money growing up? And how did those lessons prepare you or not for the real world? When did you realize that it was time to teach your kids the value of money? What's worked, what's where? Have there been bumps in the road? Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns Early. Acorns early is a smart money app and debit card for kids that helps them learn the value of money. Acorns Early's Chore tracker teaches kids that hard work pays off. You just set up chores in the app, set a payment amount, tick the chore off when it's done. Acorns early lets parents pay allowances automatically. Kids can spend what they earn with their very own choice debit card. Plus, parents can keep track of where and when their kids are spending. Get real time, spend notifications, set your kids spending limits, and instantly block lost or stolen cards. It helps your kids turn savings into a habit. Kids can use their app to set savings goals and they can even choose their own target dates and turn on the optional autosave feature to help them get there. Grow your kids money skills with bite sized financial lessons the Acorns early app has tons of fun and interactive courses that help kids learn about all things money. Ready to help your kids learn the value of money? Just head to acornserly.com census or download the Acorns early app to get started. Sign up now and your first month is on us. TNCs apply monthly subscription fees starting from $5 per month unless canceled. Ready to help your kids learn the value of money? Just head to acornserly.com or download the Acorns early app to get started. Sign up now and your first month is on us. I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. Unfortunately, traditional big wireless carriers also seem to like keeping my money too. Well, say bye bye to your overpriced wireless plans. Jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected charges. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at $15 a month. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with your existing contacts. Ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service for Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] senses that's mintmobile.com senses upfront payment of $45 for three month five gigabyte plan required equivalent to 15 bucks a month and new customer offer for first three months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. This is a message from sponsor Intuit.

[Stephen Colbert]

TurboTax Taxes was waiting and wondering and worrying if you were going to get any money back and then waiting, wondering.

[David Cross]

And worrying some more.

[Stephen Colbert]

Now taxes is matching with a turbo tax expert who can do your taxes as soon as 10 today.

[David Cross]

An expert who gives your taxes their undivided attention as they work on your.

[Stephen Colbert]

Return while you get real time updates.

[David Cross]

On their progress so you can focus on your day.

[Stephen Colbert]

An expert who will find you every deduction possible and file every form, every investment, Every everything with 100% accuracy.

[David Cross]

All so you can get the most money back guaranteed.

[Stephen Colbert]

No waiting, no wondering, no worries.

[David Cross]

Now this is Taxes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Get an Expert now on TurboTax.com only.

[David Cross]

Available with TurboTax Live full service real.

[Stephen Colbert]

Time updates only in iOS mobile app.

[David Cross]

See guarantee [e-mail] guarantees no, it was. I'm trying to remember the temperature. It was about 62, 63 degrees. No. Partly cloudy. Cloudy. No, no. Sorry because I was wearing. Oh. Which flannel was I wearing? Because I have different degrees. Some are lighter.

[Stephen Colbert]

I used to wear a lot of flannel. Man, I look at this.

[David Cross]

I mean this is a heavy one. I still do. It's comfortable.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's practical alt comedy.

[David Cross]

Yeah, that's.

[Stephen Colbert]

You know, you guys are straight out of there. You're out of Seattle, right?

[David Cross]

Yes, all of us.

[Stephen Colbert]

You were originally were roadie for Nirvana and then you said, what if I did comedy? Yeah.

[David Cross]

And I kept the cargo shorts and the long beard.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[David Cross]

And so. All right. We were at Frank's on Second Avenue.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Frank's is great.

[David Cross]

Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

Sure, sure. So you, me, Danello Sedaris, Nick.

[David Cross]

It was just you and me?

[Stephen Colbert]

No, you and I went to dinner alone. You and I did something together.

[David Cross]

Yeah, yeah, we went. What.

[Stephen Colbert]

What precipitated that? When did we know each other well enough to go to dinner together?

[David Cross]

I'm gonna guess exit 57.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, I guess so. Or Carvey.

[David Cross]

Well, Carvey is where I first.

[Stephen Colbert]

You briefly were.

[David Cross]

Yes, I was on Carvey.

[Stephen Colbert]

That was before Mr. Show took off.

[David Cross]

Yeah, it was. Bob had somehow convinced Smigel to hire me for a couple weeks. We both came out for, like, two weeks. And that was the other thing, because I just met you there and. And you're a very nice guy, and you're very affable and pleasant, and so we were.

[Stephen Colbert]

And you were suspicious of that?

[David Cross]

No, no, we hit it off. You're very nice. There were some other people that I wouldn't say were mean or anything, but.

[Stephen Colbert]

Just not just, say, Dino Stamatopoulos.

[David Cross]

Well, Dino, I know just say way back, but people that weren't quite as approachable or engaging or whatever. But. But I remember I was like. We were writing some kind of thing, and it was about a news. It was something where you were reading the news, and then you riffed, you read the news story, you went, true story. That made me laugh so hard.

[Stephen Colbert]

I remember that it was a whole. It was like a very straight news story about, like. The governor today came out to survey the damage from the mudslide that happened in Greenville, South Carolina, today. 54 people had lost their homes and almost $2.4 billion in damages. True story.

[David Cross]

Yeah. Did the little papers.

[Stephen Colbert]

True story.

[David Cross]

Yeah, true story.

[Stephen Colbert]

We couldn't make it work in the show, though.

[David Cross]

It would make me less so.

[Stephen Colbert]

None of that news stuff, none of that new stuff ever made it into any of the shows. We had another one, which was the Gentle News. Do you remember that?

[David Cross]

No.

[Stephen Colbert]

The gentle news was I'd be saying something terrible. I'd be reporting some horrible thing, but I'd be holding up. I'd have, like, a pair. Like, I'd have a little, like, budgie on my shoulder, or I had a little puppy, and we had rubbed hot dogs on my chin so the puppy would lick my face. While I was telling you about, like. Authorities are going through the dental records to identify the bodies or whatever like that, but a puppy is licking my face at the same time.

[David Cross]

I like it. I like the idea.

[Stephen Colbert]

And then we also. We also. I didn't realize it, but I met Ben Carlin, who ended up being the exec of the Daily Show.

[David Cross]

Daily Show?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes, the Daily Show. Years after that. Because when I first arrived in New York, I got hired on a Friday and had to start working on, like, Sunday night for Smigel, who was the exec on Carvey. And like, the first day in my office, me and Karel shared an office, and he came in with a giant stack of this little newspaper I'd never seen before called the Onion, because this is 96, and I just wasn't hip enough to have known about the Onion. And he plops it, boom, down on my desk, and he goes, I want you to get this voice in your head because you're gonna anchor our Onion news. And so we shot a bunch of stuff with me doing onion stories as news stories, and it didn't work. It never worked. Wouldn't come off the page. I don't know.

[David Cross]

That's surprising to me.

[Stephen Colbert]

We even shot with. We shot with John Glazer, Area bowl cashed. You ever know that headline? It was just the story like, oh.

[David Cross]

Yeah, Area Bowl Cashed.

[Stephen Colbert]

And it was a press conference explaining that the bowl is cached and they're, will you repack the bowl? We are working on acquiring what is necessary to repack the bowl. I don't. I should probably leave it there. And next question.

[David Cross]

Maybe when you see it done like that, it just doesn't translate as you reading it as if it was a newspaper.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, just like the daily mundane thing in your life as news was one of the best things. That's why the best thing ever written in the Onion. To me, the thing I love the most, not the funniest, but the thing I love the most is in their 911 issue, which is that area woman bakes flag cake. And it's just the story of it. She doesn't know what to do, right? So she bakes a cake and she decorates it as a flag and brings it to her next door neighbors. And they go, it's beautiful. Your cake is beautiful. It make you cry every time you read it, but there's no jokes in it. It's just fantastic. The whole thing is like, a lot.

[David Cross]

Of them don't have jokes. That's the beauty of it, you know, it's the. The application of their unemotional approach to a news item in a very, you Know, I think my all time favorite was when Tiger woods first won the Masters. And it's a whole. And it reveals itself kind of slowly. It's a whole article about how proud they are of him. And they were shocked, but he really did an amazing job. And they're gonna give him his own entrance into the building and his own water fountain to drink from. And it's just brilliant. It's such a brilliant application of the idea of segregating him. Because he's so great. Yeah. Because he's so great in black. Yeah. And it was. And then the other one of my favorites is. I might be butchering this, the simplicity of it. But it's like local boy with cancer. You know, sense prayer I'm making. It's so simple. Like local boy prays to God, you know, with cancer. Praise to God. God says no. Or something like that. The thing was, God says no.

[Stephen Colbert]

Aryan man loses cowardly battle with cancer. Iraqi man would have dead. Iraqi man would have loved democracy. Says Bush administration.

[David Cross]

Oh, there's so many.

[Stephen Colbert]

They just somebody else's jokes. There are so many of other people's jokes.

[David Cross]

Do you ever read or see army man or know of it?

[Stephen Colbert]

Swiss army man, like the, the one with Donald Gleason and. And I think it's like Elijah Wood or somebody like that.

[David Cross]

No, no, no, no, sorry. It's a. It was a. They only did four issues. George Meyer.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, it's a magazine.

[David Cross]

It's a zine. Not even.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, I don't know Army Man.

[David Cross]

Oh, you should check. I think there's four of them. And I believe Jack Candy wrote. And they're like. It's like a zine. Like Xerox copy.

[Stephen Colbert]

Do you work at snl?

[David Cross]

No.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay, let's move on.

[David Cross]

Do you want to say it? Slightly higher pitch.

[Stephen Colbert]

Did you. I was. Speaking of handy, I just did one of snl.

[David Cross]

I didn't. No, I've never met him. As far as I know.

[Stephen Colbert]

SNL.

[David Cross]

I've never met SNL. Stanley Nelson.

[Stephen Colbert]

I was at the 50th. I was just saying I was at the 50th. No, in case you want to know anything about.

[David Cross]

I did see the movie.

[Stephen Colbert]

The SNL movie?

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

I sat next to an original person from. From 75 and they said that didn't happen that way.

[David Cross]

Well, I'm shocked. No, it was.

[Stephen Colbert]

I haven't seen the movie. I know a lot of people who liked it. I know nothing about it.

[David Cross]

Oh, I didn't care.

[Stephen Colbert]

But this person said, no, it's not the characters and that's. It's ridiculous how it happened. And that wasn't the tone and that wasn't the intention.

[David Cross]

It's ridiculous.

[Stephen Colbert]

None of that, none of that is that way. And this person was not like mad. There's like. It just didn't hold any interest to.

[David Cross]

Me because, yeah, it didn't make me mad. I was just like, well, this is a bunch. I mean it's absolute from start to finish.

[Stephen Colbert]

Did you enjoy Studio 60 live on the Sunset Strip? Did you ever watch that?

[David Cross]

I didn't. I think I might have sketch. I know I might have watched Sketch Writer.

[Stephen Colbert]

Like everyone I know everybody who did comedy at all. I think I did watch every sketch writer I knew. Just especially writing for TV sketches. Could not have loved it more.

[David Cross]

But they love to hate it. They didn't love it.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's not the right word. Like it was kind of like a goggle. That. That's what people would think. Like what the audience would be led to think it would be like to work on one of these shows.

[David Cross]

Yeah, it's like the movie Punchline if you've ever have, you know.

[Stephen Colbert]

But it's. It's Sally Field and Tom Hanks.

[David Cross]

Yeah, yeah. Sally Field plays Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks plays Sally Field before they were famous.

[Stephen Colbert]

So you could get away with it.

[David Cross]

Yeah, yeah. So before you know, me too. And time's up and all that stuff. No Punchline. It's the same thing. The Live at the Sunset, whatever it was, is the same thing as when stand ups watch Punchline. You're like, what? Did you even talk to any stand ups? Did you accompany anybody? There's. There are things that are just. There's. I mean, it's just terrible.

[Stephen Colbert]

Like Aaron Sorkin, like, I really like his writing and I really admire at a great deal.

[David Cross]

I liked the sports one.

[Stephen Colbert]

The like West Wing.

[David Cross]

I don't think I saw it. I never saw it.

[Stephen Colbert]

Too earnest.

[David Cross]

It probably.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, Sports Night was good.

[David Cross]

I liked Sports Night.

[Stephen Colbert]

I got his movies and everything. But for this one, because I know too much about the subject, what struck me and I almost. I don't know the man. I mean, I've interviewed him a few times, but I don't know the man. But I kind of wanted to call him myself and go, oh, no, no, don't do that because.

[David Cross]

Well, give me an example.

[Stephen Colbert]

Remember, they're bad. Remember the whole. The idea is that the show. Studio 60 live on Sunset Strip, which I believe is the name of the show, okay. That the show's in trouble and they bring back These two wunderkinds to like fix it, right? And they do. And that's when I thought they made a huge mistake, is like, oh, no, now you've solved your problem, like in the second episode, like, and now it.

[David Cross]

Has to be great.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, now. Cause you could have wrote absolute shit and have them go, fuck, this isn't getting any better.

[David Cross]

So give me an example of one of the bad sketches, the sketches that didn't work on the show of Studio 60.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, I can't.

[David Cross]

In their world, it was, it was. Their show was failing, right.

[Stephen Colbert]

I can't remember. I can't remember like what the bad ones were. But after that I thought, oh no, now everything they write has got to be good.

[David Cross]

And it wasn't, I'm guessing.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, I don't, I don't.

[David Cross]

Or did they do that? Did they even show.

[Stephen Colbert]

They showed some sketches. They showed some sketches and I thought, you've painted yourself into a corner here because A, you've solved your problem right away and B, now every time now you can't show any sketches. Really. Because really they couldn't show any sketches because now they had to be.

[David Cross]

Unless they thought they were good sketch writers. And they're certainly good sketches. I suppose so.

[Stephen Colbert]

But I don't, I don't think they were. I mean, these people are not self delusional.

[David Cross]

I would disagree with that.

[Stephen Colbert]

People in Hollywood in general.

[David Cross]

Yeah, I think there are a lot of, there's a lot of self delusion. And in the Hollywood circuit.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, I wouldn't know. I don't. I've never really lived out there. I don't want to work. I'm in, I live in New York. I'm really.

[David Cross]

Did you not spend any time in la?

[Stephen Colbert]

I mean, I did whatever people did. I panned for gold. Do you know what I mean? Like go out for pilot season. Yeah, that's it. I would go out for pilot season. I would spend like six weeks out there, do everything. I can go to Friend of the Farmer. Or was that, what was that the. What was that? The was Friend of the Farmer was at the hotel or Friend of the Farmer was. Was that like a restaurant or something?

[David Cross]

Yeah, that was a go to the Farmer's Market.

[Stephen Colbert]

Everybody else I knew from Second City who was out there, we'd all have our beepers. We'd all have our beepers on the table. The table. And then one would go, bzzz. And go like, oh, I got a call back or whatever like that. And now we do that every day. And then at the End of every week, I would not hurl myself into a pit. And I go, okay, I'll do another week of this. And I never got cast in anything.

[David Cross]

Do you remember some of the things you auditioned for?

[Stephen Colbert]

I auditioned for Ally McBeal.

[David Cross]

Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

I think I got called back for Ally McBeal. I auditioned for Dharma and Greg.

[David Cross]

Oh, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

I think I might have auditioned for Greg. I don't know. Went to another Charleston boy, Thomas Gibson. I mean, it used to be that there were a million things made and a few things went. Now there's nothing made and nothing goes. But it was, you know, there'd be like, what, a hundred? How many pilots would be made over you? Crazy.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

So I thought, I'll get into something. No one would cast me in anything. And then I actually. I worked with Dino, your buddy Dino Stamatopoulos, who I knew from Carvey. We'd become tight. Dino and Mike Stallionoff.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And from Blossom fame. And very funny comedy writer and also very fit. You remember how fit is Mike still fit?

[David Cross]

I don't remember.

[Stephen Colbert]

I just remember at Carvey, kind of his Carvey. How mad Louis would get because Louis was head writer Louis ck How mad Louis would get because we'd have a meeting or a read down, and Mike wouldn't be there.

[David Cross]

He'd be at the gym.

[Stephen Colbert]

He'd be at the gym.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And he like, hey, sorry, man. I just had to. I had to burn off a little energy. And he also had very young girlfriends, and so Mike was older.

[David Cross]

That's another, maybe even better way to burn off energy. Sure.

[Stephen Colbert]

Midday.

[David Cross]

But he could have been like, I couldn't go to the meeting. I was fucking this girl. Maybe.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm not sure Louis would have liked that either. I'm not sure if that would have carried any water. Well, but how do we get on this?

[David Cross]

Oh, so we went to Frank's on Second Avenue.

[Stephen Colbert]

Go ahead. So we go to Frank's, not Second Avenue.

[David Cross]

No. Ultimately, the goal now is to never tell this story.

[Stephen Colbert]

Have you really not told the story yet?

[David Cross]

No.

[Stephen Colbert]

Really? I thought the story was true story. That's not the story.

[David Cross]

No, no. That was another thing that I remember from first meeting you and working with you and how much. How funny. And it was one of those things that I will occasionally think about. And it just sort of. It's almost like a inside joke you have with a friend or wife or something. But true story. That just will pop into my head and make me laugh.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, that makes me very happy to know that I occasionally make David Cross laugh. You're a worthy person to make laugh, in my opinion. That's because some people are not worthy.

[David Cross]

Some people are not.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, they're not human.

[David Cross]

No, I mean they have their non player characters humanity, but they're not player characters.

[Stephen Colbert]

And non player characters, Dave, which are you? Is the story about you? Is the story of your life about you, Dave?

[David Cross]

Mine is okay, but. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Then who else get to be player characters in your life?

[David Cross]

I guess the Troll Guardian. I don't. I'm not a D and D guy. The Baldor.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is that no video games. You've never played a video game?

[David Cross]

I'm sure I have.

[Stephen Colbert]

With non player characters. Like guys who send you on like side quests and shit like that. Well, those are non player characters. So.

[David Cross]

Because I can't play, I can't.

[Stephen Colbert]

Did you reference Baldur's Gate? Is that.

[David Cross]

I don't know that many of those type of games. I play games.

[Stephen Colbert]

Balder Gates is a fine, fine video game.

[David Cross]

I don't. I played. Last one that I played that I really liked was Deathloop. Really smart, interesting. Clever. Cool. Aesthetically too.

[Stephen Colbert]

Quality kills.

[David Cross]

Say what?

[Stephen Colbert]

Quality kills.

[David Cross]

Yeah, it's not that kind of. I just read, I think today, or maybe last night about the musk and NPC thing, so I'm aware of the reference. This won't come out until 2028, so people may.

[Stephen Colbert]

By the way, there's no greater response from any audience than I'm aware of the reference. That's what I'm hoping my audience says every night. We are aware of the reference. Go on to the next one.

[David Cross]

Got it. With an eye roll.

[Stephen Colbert]

They just hold up those little paddles like the Democrats said.

[David Cross]

But no, I mean, that seems very new and perhaps a little niche and not everybody might. I didn't know about that until either this morning or last night.

[Stephen Colbert]

That whole thing about the npc, it's been a term of art in certain conservative circles for a while.

[David Cross]

Yeah. I. New to it.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[David Cross]

Newly. Freshly.

[Stephen Colbert]

Do you ever see. What is it in the Blade Runner when he goes, you're either police or you're little people.

[David Cross]

I don't remember that.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you enjoy. Do you enjoy.

[David Cross]

Do I what?

[Stephen Colbert]

Blade Runner. Do you enjoy the movie Blade Runner?

[David Cross]

Why are you talking so low like that? I don't.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm afraid. I'm afraid I might have struck a nerve. By the way I said, no, I'm not familiar with that. I thought, oh boy.

[David Cross]

I'm not.

[Stephen Colbert]

You might be like this whole. Some people have Cultural holes. Like it's possible. Never saw Blade Runner.

[David Cross]

No, I saw it. I just think people who like it are stupid.

[Stephen Colbert]

You want to hear some of my cultural holes that shock people?

[David Cross]

I do like Blade Runner for the record. I just didn't remember that point now. Yeah, no I do. I like Blade Runner quite a bit. Ryan Gosling, right.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes.

[David Cross]

Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. I've never seen Shawshank neither by.

[David Cross]

And a deal was struck to never watch it.

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't want to watch it until I can watch it with Morgan Freeman.

[David Cross]

Oh, right.

[Stephen Colbert]

And Tim Robbins.

[David Cross]

Both of them together.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[David Cross]

Maybe on a zoom call.

[Stephen Colbert]

Have you seen the Fast and Furious movies? No, I've never seen one of them, no. And I want to watch. And I was going to do this. I was going to do this. It was right before the strike hit in 23. We had already set up. There's an empty. Used to be like the kick and chicken or something. There was some chicken joint on near the corner of where the Ed Sullivan is.

[David Cross]

Oh, the kicking Chicken.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it glasses the chicken who's always dying.

[David Cross]

He's like in constant state about to die.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well a bunch of chickens in the front going right. And there's a little, little voice that goes kill me. So you feel better about eating the chicken? Going oh, he wanted to go.

[David Cross]

Yes, of course.

[Stephen Colbert]

I mean this is surcease from agony.

[David Cross]

I mean they wanted to go. I think it's, it's unfortunate because he's the only chicken that spoke English and was able to communicate with verbally. Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

But he couldn't communicate with other chickens. He was so lonely. Yeah, he was only. It was really a curse.

[David Cross]

It wasn't about pain. It wasn't about physical pain, it was about emotional pain.

[Stephen Colbert]

It was loneliness, you know.

[David Cross]

That's a killer.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. Zikiller call your. Call your parents.

[David Cross]

So kickin chicken you would.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, it's glass front store just empty now. So I said what I'll do is I'll sit in there starting at 6am and we'll announce that we're gonna do this on air and that I want to sit in there with a couch.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Like a couple easy chair like with a cup holder, two of them. And then have a TV facing away from the street and people could come watch me watch all of the Fast and Furious movies in a row without a break or actually just a five minute pee break between each one and then invite cast members in to join me. And we had cast members who were willing to come in and join me. I think and it would take. I think we figured if we started at 6am we'd finish at midnight. And then I would. I would just do without a break. And then in that five minute break, I would go to the bathroom and there'd be like a little camera in there. I could say, how am I feeling? And how, how am I feeling about like how I feel about the movies?

[David Cross]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

How am I feeling about the things I'm learning about my own culture? Because that's the reason I wanted to do it, is that these are the biggest. This is the biggest franchise of all time. Fast and Furious movies are like 11, 12. No, there's no way of knowing at this point how many there are.

[David Cross]

I mean maybe in the amount of films they've done, they all like a.

[Stephen Colbert]

Billion dollars at this point.

[David Cross]

Chipmunks. You got a Chipmunks? The squeakle right up there. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Squiggle. Are you in that one?

[David Cross]

I contractually obligated, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

But I. But I figured if I'm going to talk about, you know, the national conversation or however you want to describe what the mandate of these shows that we do are like, we talk about the country. I need to understand my country. And I don't think I could understand my country until I had seen all the Fast and Furious movies. So that was the impetus behind it. But then the strike came and we didn't do it.

[David Cross]

We could still do it.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, I still haven't seen any.

[David Cross]

I would.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's hard to not see them at some certain point.

[David Cross]

I mean, you can only avoid traveling on a plane for so long, you.

[Stephen Colbert]

Know, in front of me. I might see parts of it between the two.

[David Cross]

Absolutely. I had this idea for if it hasn't. Haven't had a reason to do it yet. But if somebody in a seat mate on a plane was annoying and we've certainly flown with those folks and was watching a movie I wanted to watch get same movie, but go five minutes ahead and just like laugh or go no way or whatever, but not even do it. Just. They would, they would just look over and go, God damn it. You know, that's great. That's. That's my idea.

[Stephen Colbert]

There's got to be a suspense though.

[David Cross]

If there's, if there's somebody who's just shitty. That's my plan. Okay. But as far as like getting the, the empty storefront and doing that, I think David Blaine did that in London.

[Stephen Colbert]

He did. In a block of ice. He watched the, the Director's cut, like extended edition. Lord of the Rings. He watched all of them in a block of ice.

[David Cross]

So you're not going to be in a block of ice?

[Stephen Colbert]

No, no, I'm just. I'm just going to be. There's also a pizza place next door. I was gonna have them just send me pizza the whole time.

[David Cross]

So you would do this, but not in a block of. Well, what. I'm less interested in it now. If you were in a block of ice. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Do you think he's actually doing anything? Do you think there's any magic there when he. When he does, like, the block of ice thing? Or is he just like, I'm willing to be in a block of ice?

[David Cross]

I think he's willing to be in a block of ice. I don't know.

[Stephen Colbert]

I meant I'm willing to, like, hold my breath for nine minutes or something like that.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

You met him once.

[David Cross]

I did.

[Stephen Colbert]

I may have met him. I might have met him through an illusionist friend of mine.

[David Cross]

It was really interesting, and I'm not making a judgment, but there was this packed party somewhere in the Village or something. Somebody's house, One of those cool old brownstone townhouse things. And it was packed. And there was a pretty. You know, it was like. Like late 1800s. So the. The stairwell is, like, super tight, you.

[Stephen Colbert]

Know, And I was telling me about the window treatments. Or was it, like, shades?

[David Cross]

I'm saying it so you understand that there was not a lot of room.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, okay.

[David Cross]

As I was coming down the stairs.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[David Cross]

And. And he was there, and he. If I remember, he said something that was kind of as if. As if we were familiar with each other, but I was. And remained positive that we had never met. But I was like, hey, cross. You know, one of those type of things. And then he just started. He pulled out a deck of cards.

[Stephen Colbert]

No.

[David Cross]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Really?

[David Cross]

Yeah. That was the first time I'd ever met him.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's really sweet, actually.

[David Cross]

And it's just. That was his way of saying hi.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's what I mean. It's like, oh. He found exactly what he needed to engage with other humans. And it was deception.

[David Cross]

And. And it was trickery. It was.

[Stephen Colbert]

But seriously, that.

[David Cross]

It was. I mean, he was amazing. It was all. It was like, he's incredible.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[David Cross]

I didn't know.

[Stephen Colbert]

Bumblebee out of my cheek once.

[David Cross]

Are you serious?

[Stephen Colbert]

Took a knife, cut a little piece of my cheek, and pulled out a bumblebee, and I could taste the honey.

[David Cross]

Wow. I know that doesn't sound. What, like magic?

[Stephen Colbert]

Very painful.

[David Cross]

How long did it take to heal up? I guess it's better than having a bee.

[Stephen Colbert]

I have a makeup jean, so it doesn't really.

[David Cross]

I don't even know with you at all times.

[Stephen Colbert]

I have no idea. If I have wounds anywhere on my body. They always just come in. I close my eyes, and they just airbrush me down.

[David Cross]

I was gonna say you look a little vague.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's what I say. Vague me.

[David Cross]

You don't have to make me look.

[Stephen Colbert]

An npc, but you don't have to.

[David Cross]

Wear makeup or any of that. Or anti shine. This is a podcast.

[Stephen Colbert]

Those are cameras, though. Yeah, but I'm just a little. I'm a little powdered up here.

[David Cross]

Okay. I don't.

[Stephen Colbert]

You see that there's a woman in this room that you're not acknowledging, but I will.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

She is the head of my production company, Carrie Byleck.

[David Cross]

I know. I've known Carrie for years.

[Stephen Colbert]

People at home don't know.

[David Cross]

Okay, well, they're not gonna see her. The cameras are here.

[Stephen Colbert]

But that's why I have to say that she's here because the cameras won't see her. Because you don't believe that women should be in entertainment.

[David Cross]

No, I didn't say that. I said, well, that's what I'm getting.

[Stephen Colbert]

I said, that's what people at home are getting. All they can know is that, oh, a whole bunch of men in this room. There's a lovely woman over there, more talented than both of us, probably, and not a word. She was, for many years my publicist. She's no longer my publicist.

[David Cross]

I know who Carrie is.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm saying to the people at home.

[David Cross]

Here, they don't even know. We don't have a shot of her. As far as this could be another one of your lies.

[Stephen Colbert]

You could change that. You have the power to change that.

[David Cross]

This could be another one of your lies.

[Stephen Colbert]

Anyway, I think she would agree that without any.

[David Cross]

Why don't you ask her?

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, it's not my podcast. Why don't you ask her?

[David Cross]

Okay, what am I asking?

[Stephen Colbert]

Without any. I would believe that she would say, without any powder on, you look like uncooked calamari.

[David Cross]

Okay. Hey, lady without any makeup on, what does Stephen Colbert look like? All right, Chris, cut that out. Yep, cut her out. Okay. There's nobody here, Stephen. There's no imaginary look.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm just lonely, you know? Loneliness is a killer.

[David Cross]

It is. Yeah, it's. Do you know what the.

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't have a little magic deck of cards to engage with other people. I don't have that.

[David Cross]

Tarot.

[Stephen Colbert]

What about tarot? No, I won't do it. I won't do it because it's too powerful.

[David Cross]

What about astrology?

[Stephen Colbert]

What?

[David Cross]

What about astrology? But when the moon is in the.

[Stephen Colbert]

Seventh House and Jupiter aligns with Mars.

[David Cross]

Yeah. And peace will go Planets and love.

[Stephen Colbert]

Will steer the stars this is the.

[David Cross]

Dawning of the Age of Aquarius Age of Aquarius Age of Aquarius Aquarius we had to go through the song in.

[Stephen Colbert]

Our head Harmony and understanding Peace and.

[David Cross]

Love.

[Stephen Colbert]

Minor actors not seem later vanish in a planet's crater. Those of us who try to save them fail because the script has made them dispensable. That was the Mad Magazine parody of Star Trek the Musical. Parody of Star Trek. Star Trek Dispensable. The dispensable.

[David Cross]

Yeah, but that's. That's from Hair. Star Trek. Was it a musical?

[Stephen Colbert]

Huh?

[David Cross]

Star Trek the Musical.

[Stephen Colbert]

The Mad Magazine parody of Star Trek used the soundtrack to Hair.

[David Cross]

Why, that's. Really.

[Stephen Colbert]

Did you not read Mad Magazine?

[David Cross]

Of course I did.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, they would use all kinds of.

[David Cross]

Did you ever get parodied in Mad Magazine?

[Stephen Colbert]

I did.

[David Cross]

Oh, that must have been a treat.

[Stephen Colbert]

It was a real treat. It was like Coker or Debartolo or one of those guys. I forgot who it was. But, yeah, it's me and John. I think they're making fun of us. Making fun of things which I could not have loved more.

[David Cross]

Oh, man, that would be.

[Stephen Colbert]

That was the greatest. That's like getting a Hirschfeld.

[David Cross]

I was about to say that. I literally was about to say when I was a kid and my mom would get the Sunday Times, we were in Georgia, and it was illegal there for a long, long time. And it's how they found out that we were Jewish. So then we had a flee. Oh. It's a long story, but one of my markers for success was if Al Hirschfeld drew me.

[Stephen Colbert]

Did he?

[David Cross]

No, not that I'm aware of.

[Stephen Colbert]

He drew Amy Sedaris.

[David Cross]

Nice.

[Stephen Colbert]

I got super jealous about that. She was doing an off Broadway play with Sarah Jessica Parker and a couple other people whose names escaped me at the moment. Maybe Parker Posey. All the Parkers. Parker roles.

[David Cross]

And Peter Parker.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yep. Okay. And Parker House. Yep. Parker House roles. And.

[David Cross]

But the people do the board games.

[Stephen Colbert]

Parker Brothers.

[David Cross]

Parker Brothers. They lived in the Parker House? Yes, the Parker Brothers did. Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

And park your carcass.

[David Cross]

This podcast is only for people from 60 to 80, by the way.

[Stephen Colbert]

Hey, by the way, I got something about that. A 60 to 80 thing you need to think about. So I was very jealous. Amy got a she Got a. I don't think the Nina was in her, like, was in her hair or anything like that. But, you know, I was just. I just had lunch with Dick Cavett, actually.

[David Cross]

Wow.

[Stephen Colbert]

He has two Hirschfelds son of him.

[David Cross]

And they're like full.

[Stephen Colbert]

Like he's got the original art. They're big. They're big panels of paper, like with the pen and ink on it. It's beautiful.

[David Cross]

My. My wife has something that I'll never. That I jealous of. It's the same thing. Not, you know, green eyed jealousy, but Ms. Greenhe monster. The. She was in Mad magazine.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, yeah.

[David Cross]

Her Joan of Arc, Arcadia show.

[Stephen Colbert]

I wasn't mad.

[David Cross]

You weren't Joan of Arcadia?

[Stephen Colbert]

No, it was me and John. They were making fun of us. Making fun of things. It's great.

[David Cross]

Oh, yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Did you ever have the thing you.

[David Cross]

Just said, you ever have a Hfeld? No, we've established that. I did not have a. I don't know. I didn't, as far as I know. Unless he. Unless some, you know, somebody unlocks a chest that they forgot about a trunk or something, and there's all his, like Hirschfels at, you know, originals at nobody. And there's like seven of me.

[Stephen Colbert]

You ready for a 60 to 80 reference? I have a Herblock.

[David Cross]

I don't know what that is.

[Stephen Colbert]

Herblock. He was a political cartoonist. Really?

[David Cross]

Her block, Herblock.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's Herbert Block. Her block is how it would be.

[David Cross]

Yes, that does sound familiar. What is.

[Stephen Colbert]

What's the style political cartoon like of the most dictionary definition version? Here comes a man who is labeled inflation.

[David Cross]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

And there's a defenseless group of children labeled the economy.

[David Cross]

Yeah. Very nast.

[Stephen Colbert]

There's been a tiger that says Tammany Hall.

[David Cross]

There have been advancements made in the. Mike. Do you know Mike Lukovich's work?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. Mike is fantastic. Mike is fantastic.

[David Cross]

Really good.

[Stephen Colbert]

Really.

[David Cross]

Probably the best.

[Stephen Colbert]

Shoulders above the others. Yeah, I met him once. Mike and. And. And Tom Tomorrow. They were hanging out together.

[David Cross]

Oh, yeah?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, I like Tom tomorrow too.

[David Cross]

Yeah, I've met that guy.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, I met him at the. The convent. The Democratic Convention of 2004.

[David Cross]

Have you met Reuben Bolling?

[Stephen Colbert]

No.

[David Cross]

The Tom. The Dancing Bug?

[Stephen Colbert]

No.

[David Cross]

Oh, he's brilliant.

[Stephen Colbert]

How about Dan? Close. You ever met him?

[David Cross]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Needle Dick. The Bug fucker.

[David Cross]

Yep.

[Stephen Colbert]

Fantastic.

[David Cross]

Yeah, that's another level. And his last. I want to say his last three novels, graphic novels are just genius. I mean, they're all great, but the last three are next level storytelling.

[Stephen Colbert]

And isn't it great when you Meet somebody and you've got an incredibly obscure reference like needle dick the bug fucker. And they know it. Yeah, like that's been. That's a guy I could go have dinner with.

[David Cross]

Oh, yes, thank you. So, Steven, speaking of having dinner with.

[Stephen Colbert]

Which I do not remember at all, by the way.

[David Cross]

Oh, or he was.

[Stephen Colbert]

Held me down and threatened my family. I would like. I do not remember remember having had dinner with David Cross. I like David Cross.

[David Cross]

It was. He's a good guy.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, it's very fun here. I wouldn't be here if I didn't like David Cross. Yeah, it's not like he has something on me. Unless there's something part in this dinner story I don't know about.

[David Cross]

No, no, it was just made me laugh so fucking hard.

[Stephen Colbert]

What is it? The story?

[David Cross]

I'll tell you after we stop because. Or maybe I'll tell it on your show.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay, that'll be good. Why don't we just run this on the show? Just run this whole thing at like double spe.

[David Cross]

I'll go on your show. We could show this intro from here and then come back to the desk and I'll.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I'll say I'm sorry, we're all out of time.

[David Cross]

Yes, I think we should do that. I did this thing that took, oh gosh, maybe 10 years to pay off. Maybe longer. Probably longer. But I did a longer. It must have been at least 15 years. But I did a. I did the short lived Carson Daly talk show thing.

[Stephen Colbert]

Which one was that? The one that was after Conan when he did Later.

[David Cross]

Yeah, it's just called Later Later. Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

Pretty long lived.

[David Cross]

Was it?

[Stephen Colbert]

I did it.

[David Cross]

Well, I thought it was. How long was.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay, how long was Jack Parr, the host of the Tonight Show? Bum bum bum bum bum bum bum. Really set the format for all talk shows after that. Bum bum.

[David Cross]

Two years.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, that's pretty. Four years. That was not fair.

[David Cross]

I thought. Wait, where was. What's his face? Steve Allen.

[Stephen Colbert]

Steve Allen was before that.

[David Cross]

Before that.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. And then it was par. And then. And then nobody would take over for par because you can't take over for par. Yeah, there's no way you can take over for par. He's a giant. So many people like came in, there were guest hosts.

[David Cross]

What about like Jamie Kennedy?

[Stephen Colbert]

Is.

[David Cross]

Would he. No.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is the experiment over?

[David Cross]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Are the results in. Are the results in from the experiment?

[David Cross]

Yeah, it's over.

[Stephen Colbert]

I never read the. Never even read the. The. The.

[David Cross]

Did you.

[Stephen Colbert]

Did you digest the little. The abstract.

[David Cross]

The Lance. The Lancet Lancet. Yeah. Did you ever see and I believe cut the funding. Which one?

[Stephen Colbert]

The National Endowment for the Sciences cut the funding for the experiment.

[David Cross]

Yeah, well they, yeah, yeah, they saved over $80. But anyway, and I think you can see it on YouTube and I urge you to check it out. There was, I don't remember what year it was, but there was a Live from Hollywood Boulevard New Year's Eve thing with. I remember Jill Scott was there, Jamie Kennedy was hosting and it is a disaster in the best way. Kerry, do you know what I'm talking about?

[Stephen Colbert]

She's not here.

[David Cross]

I know, I'm just throwing that out in the ether. It was, I want to say like middle. Oh, it's like 2008, something like that. And it was every. People are drunk, the crowd is route. It's a terrible idea. They only did real like they did it on the street.

[Stephen Colbert]

He's got a bunch of people, they're all tank. They've been partying.

[David Cross]

And then I think Jill, Chris, Jill's.

[Stephen Colbert]

Got a band leader or something.

[David Cross]

No, it was not a, it wasn't like a late, it was a one off thing.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, I see.

[David Cross]

So it was like live on Hollywood Boulevard, you know, whoever, I don't know who, what network did it, but you know, Jamie Kennedy hosts the New Year's Eve countdown and people are visibly drunk and the crowd is pissed because there's, and there's technical. I would watch that.

[Stephen Colbert]

That sounds wonderful. That sounds wonderful actually because I'm a big fan of chaos.

[David Cross]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Other people's chaos.

[David Cross]

Yes, of course. And it was live, you know, it was happening, was unfolding and nobody, I would imagine a lot of people got fired after that. And it just, it was not a great idea on paper.

[Stephen Colbert]

But also speaking of shows that were a disaster, did you know that I was offered the job of the sidekick on the Magic Hour? Magic Johnson had a talk show.

[David Cross]

Oh dear.

[Stephen Colbert]

For six weeks. Yes, in like two ninety, I don't know, two thousand and meow, meow. I'm not sure when it was. All I know is that I was pretty darn unemployed. Yeah, I think I might have been out there for. Panning for gold out in la trying to get somebody to talk to me and a guy named Jim Sharp who had been at development at Comedy Central. Yeah, Jim was a great guy. He also, he also produced, I think he produced a lot of the Unplugged stuff. But anyway, Jim said, hey, I hear you're in la. You want to come over and just meet these guys? I said, sure, So I went over and I met Magic's team. Not Magic, but I met Magic's team. And they were very attractive, extremely fit, a group of people, very Chanel, very fashionable. And they came in and he explained to me what the show would be. He's like, Magic knows he's not a host. He knows that he's, you know, he's not out there. He's not really. He's not a comedian. He's just there. People like him. Everybody. Yeah, sure, I get it. Very charming guy. And he goes, what we want you to do is that you want to be like, you're like a window for the comedy. Like, you're going to like, you'll be like a sidekick. You'll be off, you'll do the announcement for the show, but you'll also be peppering him with, like, jokes and observations about, like, things he said or things in the news while he's doing the monologue. And he'll be confused. Like, you're like his, like, you know, you're like his crazy uncle, but you're.

[David Cross]

Supposed to interrupt him.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. And you're like his crazy uncle, and you'll say stuff and he'll like, he doesn't know what you're talking about. So it's like that kind of vibe. Oh, and, and I said, okay. And, and you know, I really needed a job, so I, I, I, I also really grateful that Jim would call me in. And, and so I, I did my best in the interview when his team came in and I basically kind of said back to them what Jim had said to me, because I figured that was what the prep was. And, and then they offered me the job and I was unemployed and I had another baby on their way. This isn't so. This is in 98. I was really unemployed. I had to start working supposed to a little unemployment. Well, I mean, I basically did like one piece every six weeks on the Daily Show. That was my job. I had nothing. And Carvey was gone and I was in living in New York with no job. I don't recommend it with a baby. And I had another baby on the way. And I was down in South Carolina with Evie, and I said, they've offered me the job. And she was all excited. And I said, and I can't take it. And she said, what? Like, we don't like, I'm. She was massively pregnant. I was like, I can't take it. And I said, I just, I just really don't think this show's gonna last. And I think it would be bad for my career to have this on as a notch on my belt. I don't. I think, I think people will not forget that I took this job if I take this job. And I hope you can trust me. And she looked at me for a while. We're in the breakfast nook of her parents house. Oh, we didn't even have an apartment. We're just living with them at this point. And she said to me, she stood up, she sighed, she goes, I trust you. And she walked out of the room. That was a rough, rough moment. But then it aired. We watched the air. We watched the premiere episode together.

[David Cross]

And who did it? Who was the sidekick?

[Stephen Colbert]

I can't remember. He's a working standup and he, he starts peppering magic. The monologue starts and he starts peppering magic with a, you know, a couple of zingers or comments exactly as described like that. And Magic Johnson stops and goes. He's like my crazy uncle. He says these things. I'm like, I don't know what he's talking about. He also reiterated the prep to the audience. And I turned to every. She went, okay, okay. That was the right.

[David Cross]

Well, you may. You did do the right choice. I think, I think people would have forgotten it. I know that feeling, that of in the moment where you go, I don't think people are going to forget it. I think they would. It wouldn't care.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay.

[David Cross]

But you clearly made the right choice. But I will say this. It's not too late to go back and revisit.

[Stephen Colbert]

I would do something with magic. In a minute. He's a giant, literally.

[David Cross]

Steven is nodding his head now. Steven. I. It's Steven, right?

[Stephen Colbert]

Fine. If that's how you want to perceive me, then, yeah, I'm Steven.

[David Cross]

Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

You can call me Steve if you want. Some people call me Steve.

[David Cross]

I don't want to call you Steve.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, you don't have to.

[David Cross]

Yeah, Dave. No, David.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, always David. Never Dave.

[David Cross]

My family calls me Dave and I don't even hear it.

[Stephen Colbert]

My brother Ed calls me Steve.

[David Cross]

Yeah, but I don't. You know.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. My brother Ed, Tom Brokaw and Tom Hanks are the only people who call me Steve.

[David Cross]

You should probably get a third Tom to call. Maybe Tom York. Tom York. Yeah. T H O M. Tom.

[Stephen Colbert]

If you're listening, you may call me Steve.

[David Cross]

You know what I call Tom Yorick?

[Stephen Colbert]

What?

[David Cross]

Tom Thumb. He loves it. He loves it. Now, Steven. Hey, Chris, did you find anything on that? No. All right.

[Stephen Colbert]

On what?

[David Cross]

The New Year's chaos. They Might have like wiped it clean.

[Stephen Colbert]

It might have been. They might have like a man in black.

[David Cross]

Oh, dude.

[Stephen Colbert]

Men in black.

[David Cross]

There you go. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Talking, talking. I'm talking with a star of the early aughts. Yeah. Is that 90s or early aughts?

[David Cross]

90S. Well, they made three of them. I was in the first two. So 90s into the. No, no, I had not moved to New York yet. So they were both 90s. Yeah. Yes. So, Steven, I.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes, David.

[David Cross]

I end every episode with a question from my daughter to the guest.

[Stephen Colbert]

Your nine year old daughter?

[David Cross]

Is that German? No, she just turned 8. But she would have been 7 when she wrote this.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay.

[David Cross]

Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow. You've been banking these for a while.

[David Cross]

I have, yeah. I do. Because it's. We had a couple going and then I was starting to run out and then when I like. I need 20 more. You can't ask a kid. I need 20 more questions for my podcast.

[Stephen Colbert]

Before you get to this question, I just want to ask something. Does this podcast have an organizing principle of some kind?

[David Cross]

Yeah, it's. Well, as you might know, it's chaos theory meets kind of Wittgenstein, but just at the meniscus of the isthmus. Yeah, the meniscus of the isthmus. That's the old Wisconsin badgers fighting song.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, not many people know that Madison is an isthmus.

[David Cross]

I do. It's one of those things.

[Stephen Colbert]

Why do you know that Madison is an isthmus?

[David Cross]

I don't know. Why do I know any of these things? I don't know. It's just random.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's a really deep cut. That's a random trivia.

[David Cross]

I don't know. I mean, I've spent time there, so maybe it's.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yep.

[David Cross]

There. I don't know. Go ahead. I love Madison. Love. It's. It's.

[Stephen Colbert]

Hey, Farmer's Market up in Madison Sunday.

[David Cross]

The.

[Stephen Colbert]

The weekend is farmers market.

[David Cross]

It's the one thing I don't enjoy.

[Stephen Colbert]

Tri camera.

[David Cross]

Legislature. Yeah, there you go.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes.

[David Cross]

How about that?

[Stephen Colbert]

And they stole. It's tricameral. Who's got the unicameral in the Midwest?

[David Cross]

Iowa.

[Stephen Colbert]

Nebraska has a unicameral legislature.

[David Cross]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

So they don't. Their state house doesn't have like wings, it's just tall. Cause it's unicameral. And as you're driving toward Lincoln, that pokes up over the horizon before anything else.

[David Cross]

And it is called Lincoln's penis.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's called the penis of the plains.

[David Cross]

Okay, close. That's Bob Kerry's doing.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, he is Senator Bob Kerry of Nebraska.

[David Cross]

That's right.

[Stephen Colbert]

I dated a girl from Lincoln for many years. Yeah.

[David Cross]

That's how you know all that stuff.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's how I know all that stuff.

[David Cross]

But wait, what is there. There's a. So there's unicameral. There's bicameral.

[Stephen Colbert]

Bicameral, which is like.

[David Cross]

The United States is bicameral. Yeah, pretty much. But there's tricameral in Wisconsin.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. The representatives and the senators. And then there's the wizards.

[David Cross]

And there's Patsy. The wizards.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wizards. Just that, that whole. They just. It's all incantations. They just put out. They put their intention out into the world, like the Secret. And they want that to come back positively for Wisconsin. That's what they do.

[David Cross]

That's what the Secret's about. It's about Wisconsin legislation, really, when you think about it. Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

If you secret about it.

[David Cross]

Stephen, here's my question from seven year old Marlo. Steven. This is one of my favorite questions, too. If Donald Trump found a lucky penny, would he have good luck?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes.

[David Cross]

Okay, there you go. There you go.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes, he would.

[David Cross]

All right. Yeah, that's fine. You don't. I mean, you can answer it any way you see fit. I would, I would. I think we've done about 65 of these shows. I would say that's the most boring, unentertaining answer yet, but there you go. You have to have one. Why are you refusing to laugh for those of you at home?

[Stephen Colbert]

Is that what you yell at your audiences? Yes. Why are you refusing to laugh?

[David Cross]

I say it in kind of a vaguely Germanic why are you losing?

[Stephen Colbert]

To laugh.

[David Cross]

Why are you refusing to laugh?

[Stephen Colbert]

But that's my answer. I don't want to. I don't want to add anything to the answer.

[David Cross]

That's fine. It's perfectly fine. And I rarely kind of editorialize, but there you go.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. Really?

[David Cross]

It's rare for you to editorialize about the answer to the question.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay. Am I allowed to editorialize about the question?

[David Cross]

Sure.

[Stephen Colbert]

Or as your daughter, I can't.

[David Cross]

No, no, you can.

[Stephen Colbert]

Does she listen to this?

[David Cross]

Not that I'm aware of.

[Stephen Colbert]

There's a chance she'll listen to this at some point.

[David Cross]

Maybe.

[Stephen Colbert]

It was a perfect question.

[David Cross]

It's a good question.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's a very good question.

[David Cross]

And I.

[Stephen Colbert]

If it is a lucky penny.

[David Cross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Then of course he would get luck. Same way. It doesn't matter who gets the genie, you get the wishes.

[David Cross]

Right. I get it. Makes sense.

[Stephen Colbert]

What constitutes a lucky penny? Just a penny found is a lucky penny. Or any.

[David Cross]

When she asked that question. She. It was in the phase of believing that, you know, oh, if you do find a penny, pick it up all the day, you'll have good luck.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, okay, sure.

[David Cross]

You know that freight. You know that thing on a crack.

[Stephen Colbert]

Break your mother's back.

[David Cross]

Yeah. And so find a penny, pick it.

[Stephen Colbert]

Up all the day, you'll have good lup.

[David Cross]

Good lup, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And he would definitely have good lup then.

[David Cross]

Yeah. Lup is short for lupus. For lupus, yeah. For lupus you have 24 hour lupus. You find a pic finny, pick it up.

[Stephen Colbert]

Terrible disease, but one of the best names. Terrible, terrible. Flannery O'Connor died of lupus.

[David Cross]

Is that true?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, yeah. But, but, but you got to admit, lupus is a pretty good. Pretty funny word.

[David Cross]

Yeah, there's a. There's a. Lupus is good whooping cough.

[Stephen Colbert]

Cough is good. Whooping cough, yes. Yeah.

[David Cross]

There's another one that Rickets. Ricketts, yeah. Rickett, huh? And Willie Prater syndrome. Is that the one.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is that the one where Praters. You suddenly are able to play blues guitar? No, it's like Blind Willie Prater.

[David Cross]

I think it's Willie Prater syndrome is where you are constantly eating and you eat things that aren't edible necessarily.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, really? Cooper's Droop. You've heard of Cooper's Droop?

[David Cross]

The Reverend from Vermont. From what? He's a reverend from Vermont in the late 1700s.

[Stephen Colbert]

Cooper's droop? Yeah. Cooper's Droop. Yeah. He wrote Pilgrim's Progress. Cooper's Droop. No, Cooper's Droop is a thing. Is this, this tendon, the. The, like the. The meat up of your chest just droops because this tendon, it's a man boob. Yeah. A lady boob, too.

[David Cross]

Yeah, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

It happens. It happens to us. It waits for us all. It waits for us all. Did you work out?

[David Cross]

No.

[Stephen Colbert]

All right.

[David Cross]

Do you?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. But why do you say it like that?

[David Cross]

That's good.

[Stephen Colbert]

It has no effect. I feel better if I do it, but it's not.

[David Cross]

Yes, there was a brief period of time where right before I went to. I went to Machu Picchu with Bob last summer and hiked the Inca Trail and did all that, and I was like, I better fucking get on it.

[Stephen Colbert]

Did you hike all the way up or did you take, like the. The tram way up at all?

[David Cross]

Son of a motherfucking bitch. We hiked, asshole.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm just asking. I' impressed.

[David Cross]

You should. But if I say hike, I do this on stage. Too, where I talk about it and then I say, and then we'll cut all this out. And then.

[Stephen Colbert]

So that story's gonna be cut out. What we just heard. Are we already out of the edit? Are we back on time?

[David Cross]

We're back in.

[Stephen Colbert]

We're back in. Okay. So for those of you who didn't get to hear what the story was it was about, he made a reference to Mountu Picchu. And I asked him whether he hiked it or took the train up there. He got very upset. Edge of tears. And he said, no, that's a joke. I do on my own show. Don't make that joke about me. And then he said, cut this out. Cut this out. Don't allow this part to be in here. This shows me as weak.

[David Cross]

Okay? And we're back.

[Stephen Colbert]

He cucked me. That's what the words were.

[David Cross]

And we're back in.

[Stephen Colbert]

We're back in. Are we back in now? Yeah. So the story I just told, story of the story. The story you cut out is.

[David Cross]

It's extra stuff. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay.

[David Cross]

It's great.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, you know, this is for the DVD commentary.

[David Cross]

This can be. This actually can go. I'll take it for the special when I do my special.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wait, can be.

[David Cross]

At the end of the day, this.

[Stephen Colbert]

Could be in a special. Did I sign anything? This can't be in a special.

[David Cross]

You just sign a thing.

[Stephen Colbert]

Lawyer up, motherfucker. Because I. No way this goes in special. This goes into a podcast. No and no special.

[David Cross]

No.

[Stephen Colbert]

No special.

[David Cross]

Let's not call it a special. Let's call it something else. Special is just sort of, you know, random word that we use. It's not special.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's intellectual property. Let's just call it intellectual property. It's a thing. Yeah, it's talking. We should have dinner. You know what's still open?

[David Cross]

Frank's.

[Stephen Colbert]

Frank's is still open.

[David Cross]

Is it still open?

[Stephen Colbert]

It's still open. Yeah. Same spot.

[David Cross]

That's admirable. Especially that neighbor has changed so much. What did you order? Cacio Pepe.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, you ordered the Caciope. You remember that?

[David Cross]

You ordered the Caciopepe there, I'm assuming.

[Stephen Colbert]

I know that. I got the. They had this fennel where they would chop up. There was fennel bulbs that were, like, quartered, and then they were, like, steamed, but then they were cooked in this cream and Parmesan sauce with a lot of pepper.

[David Cross]

That sounds good.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, my God. I've been trying to recreate it.

[David Cross]

I'll tell you what else you would have told me about Frank's. And not vice versa. Because I think I just had not been there for very long, and I think that was the first time I ate there. So you wouldn't have known about it? Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Second Avenue and Third or something like that. Or Second Avenue and Fifth. Something like that. My wife Evie lived between Second and First across from the Hell's Angels.

[David Cross]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

She lived in the apartment building across from the Hell's Angels. And she was like, it was great. The Hell's Angels.

[David Cross]

I was on 3rd street, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. Because that was up. Because those guys, I'd say once every three weeks or so, but consistently not like, you know, it wasn't like they set their alarm to do it or wrote on the calendar, but they would, you know, their fucking bikes with a. You know, and it would set off all the car alarms, and they would come flying up 3rd street to their headquarters. And the guy. There was a guy. The guy who ran security at Bowery Ballroom was one of the guys who said, you know, they set their chairs out there and their little couch. They would sit there, and then I would walk my dog, and he'd go, bo to the dog. Go, eh, just fucking with you. For real.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow.

[David Cross]

Yeah. But I felt good that I kind of had an in with him, and he would always recognize me at Bowery Ballroom and kind of give me a nod and not question whether I was able to go downstairs or backstage or anything.

[Stephen Colbert]

Do you know Tom Segura's bikes? Do you know that?

[David Cross]

No bikes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Check it out sometime. It's really funny.

[David Cross]

Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

I like Tom just about yelling bikes at people.

[David Cross]

I don't know. I will check it out. I like him.

[Stephen Colbert]

Hey, this has been. This has been great.

[David Cross]

Oh, are we done?

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, I just have a show. I have to. What's your show?

[David Cross]

Let's tell people about it.

[Stephen Colbert]

I do. Well, I do an improv show at Cross Currents under the Belmont L in Chicago. And tonight it's me. It's Joel Murray, Dave Pasqueze, Honor Finnegan, guy named Chris Paff, and then whoever the six we can get. And we just go up there and we try to. We try to improvise.

[David Cross]

But you're in New York right now.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, I got to get on a plane. I got to get. I got to get back. You take a plane to Chicago every day?

[David Cross]

Every day.

[Stephen Colbert]

Every day, yeah.

[David Cross]

Wow.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[David Cross]

Limousine liberal.

[Stephen Colbert]

What?

[David Cross]

Limousine liberal.

[Stephen Colbert]

Private jet liberal, please.

[David Cross]

Oh, it's a private jet.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, it's a private jet. Let me in with those Kennedys. No, that's why I didn't know your whole story about, like, watching a movie on the back of a seat. I didn't understand what you were talking about that before. I'm like, oh, you invited somebody you don't like on your plane. I'm like, what is that? Why would you do that?

[David Cross]

And why would you sit right next to him? So much space.

[Stephen Colbert]

Exactly. It's 60 seater private jet.

[David Cross]

You have a bocce ball set on your private plane, right?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. I mean, depending on the season, if we keep the grass alive.

[David Cross]

Wow, that's great.

[Stephen Colbert]

Good for you. It's very.

[David Cross]

It's very difficult and service animals. Yes. No.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. I mean, raccoons, because they've got opposable thumbs, but I wouldn't trust anything else to fly.

[David Cross]

Oh, they're actually flying the plane.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's the service they're performing.

[David Cross]

Wow.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. Yeah, that's.

[David Cross]

I would love to be a fly on that wall. Wait, no.

[Stephen Colbert]

Not if my service iguana was on board. This is really devolving.

[David Cross]

I've enjoyed this immensely.

[Stephen Colbert]

So have I.

[David Cross]

It's good to see what it's normally like. No, it's usually pretty funny and, you know, edifying in some way.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is there ever, like, a sustained conversation about anything? Because I feel like never.

[David Cross]

Are you kidding?

[Stephen Colbert]

I didn't think so. I wanted to know because I've. This is why I can't imagine having dinner with you. This podcast says to me, I just don't see that.

[David Cross]

I just don't see that's funny because I pitched this podcast as a. It's like having dinner with me at Frank's a long time ago. The End sense is working overtime is a Headgum podcast created and hosted by me, David Cross. The show is edited by Katie Skelton and engineered by Nicole Lyons with supervising producer Emma Foley. Thanks to Demi Druchin for our show Art and Mark Rivers for our theme song. For more podcasts by headgum, visit headgum.com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and maybe we'll read it on a future episode. I'm not gonna do that. Thanks for listening.

[Stephen Colbert]

That was a Headgum podcast.