Attack The Block with Aamna Mohdin

Summary

Sentimental Garbage – “Attack the Block” with Aamna Mohdin

Podcast: Sentimental Garbage
Host: Caroline O’Donoghue
Guest: Aamna Mohdin
Date: October 2, 2025
Episode Theme: A heartfelt and incisive discussion of Joe Cornish’s 2011 cult classic “Attack the Block”—a sci-fi/action film deeply rooted in South London council estate life. Caroline and Aamna explore the movie’s deft blend of genre thrills and sharp social commentary, reflecting on its radical politics, depiction of youth, and changing attitudes toward representation in British cinema.

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Episode Overview

Main Theme:
Caroline O’Donoghue and journalist/author Aamna Mohdin deep-dive into Joe Cornish’s “Attack the Block”, examining its significance as both a thrilling alien invasion movie and a nuanced depiction of South London council estate life. Their conversation weaves personal nostalgia, film craft analysis, and sharp social critique—covering representation, state neglect, changing identity politics, and what it means to “feel seen” in cinema.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Connections & Film Context

• Caroline reflects on avoiding the “boy movie” for years, coming to it with the experience of living in South London for 14 years:

  “To finally watch it as, like, you know, 14 years into being a South Londoner, it was such a treat.” (01:19)

• Aamna’s personal background:
  • Watched with her brothers (who have strong East London dialects vs. her own, shaped by a teaching assistant as a child refugee).
  • Memorable as first date with her husband:

    “We kind of met at one of those big London protests... we were in his room watching this film, and he loved it.” (03:12)

2. “Attack the Block” – Plot & Setting

• Plot summary (Amna):

  • Set on the Wyndham Estate, South London, on Guy Fawkes Night.
  • Begins with Sam (Jodie Whittaker) being mugged by a gang of teenage boys, an incident interrupted by an alien crash—leading the unlikely group to defend their estate from the invasion.

    “It’s such a gem of a film. It’s very close to my heart.” (01:43)

• On atmosphere and setting:

  “The setting, it’s basically its own character, isn’t it? It’s such a melding of worlds.” (06:19)

3. Boys on Bikes, Genre Subversion & Stereotypes

• Caroline’s key observation:

  “Boys on bikes getting into mischief has such different meanings culturally... you put that in some suburbs in New Jersey... But you put that in a South London estate... suddenly boys on bikes becomes a different definition, and it’s like a threat. It’s immediately a threat.” (07:10)

• On subverting “hoodie horror”:
  • Amna: Attack the Block challenged the wave of films depicting working-class (especially Black) youth as monstrous.

    “It completely challenged those films... only he could really have done that.” (32:29, 32:58)

4. Violence, Innocence & “Unchilding”

• On normalization of violence and empathetic depiction:

  “He places violence in, like, the normal rhythm of childhood... straight after the mugging, one of the characters calls their mom to say, yeah, I’m gonna come back in time for the curfew.” (09:34)

• Jodi Whittaker’s Sam as an outsider:

  “She doesn’t see them as children, I think near the end, she’s quite surprised by...” (10:51)

• The concept of “Unchilding” (Aamna):
  • The societal process of refusing to recognize Black/Brown children as children, stripping them of innocence.

    “You remove their childhood, therefore you remove their innocence and the care that... it normalizes state violence against them.” (40:53)

5. Radical Politics, Social Commentary & Realities of Council Estates

• Depiction of council estates as home vs “sinkhole estates” rhetoric:

  “To them it’s home, it’s like this really loving, beautiful place.” (54:25)

  • Attacks government policy (esp. David Cameron-era) for blaming architecture rather than defunding community resources.
• Erosion of social safety nets:
  • Aamna explains the loss of programs like SureStart and educational maintenance allowance (EMA), and their impact on youth and families.

    “It’s actually such a, like it’s just a form of vandalism that the Tories came in and took SureStart away.” (18:45)

• Link to London Riots (2011):

  “Enough time has passed... we can absolutely charge the defunding of these youth groups to the rise in crime of all kinds.” (17:21)

6. Representation & Identity Politics

• Would “Attack the Block” be made today?

  “I actually question whether it would be made... that’s a can of worms that I don’t want to get involved in.” (24:59)

  • Both discuss the pitfalls of “surface” diversity and the exhaustion of identity politics cycles.
• Publishing perspective (Amna):

  “So much of the emphasis was, this is a refugee writing a refugee story... I am really funny, guys.” (28:03)

• On the need for creative freedom:

  “We shouldn’t terrify white people from not writing black characters, which I kind of feel like is happening or has happened.” (30:58)

7. Craft, Comedy, & Film-Making Insights

• Joe Cornish’s process:
  • Immersed himself in youth groups and South London dialect to write authentic dialogue.

    “He would, sort of record these whole days he spends with these kids and then he would like type them up at night.” (13:25)

• Shooting at night and with underage actors:
  • Caroline details the logistical challenges (“must have been so hard to make physically”). (12:46)
• Blend of genre (sci-fi/horror/action) and British realism:
  • Film praised for practical effects (aliens are “just gorilla suits and glowing teeth”! 58:09) and deft, Edgar Wright-influenced quick-cutting.

8. Joy, Community, and Intimacy of Estate Life

• Friendship & communal space:
  • The girls’ presence brings warmth, highlighting the intimacy and interconnectedness among council estate residents.

    “It just reminds me of: your best friend just lives downstairs.” (52:37)

  • On the pleasure and community—“They love the block.” (56:50)

9. Memorable Scenes & Quotes

• The “too much madness for one text” bit:

  “I’ve got one text left. There’s too much madness to put in one text.” (45:52)

• Moses’ bedroom scene: (38:51-40:35)
  • Sam sees Spider-Man posters, unmade bed, clear signs of neglected but childlike home life.

    “The abuse is neglect... it’s because no one fucking cares about them.” (39:37)

• Ending: Moses’ Heroism & The Union Jack Scene:

  “He’s literally, like, hanging onto a Union Jack.” (59:53)
  “Him holding onto the flag in front of the council estate he’s defending is just such an assertion of his place in the country... I belong here, bitch.” (61:47)

• Final moments:
  • Moses and boys get arrested after saving everyone, but are cheered by the crowd.

  “Those boys are my neighbors and they protected me. Those boys are my neighbors is like, what?” (64:31)

  • On the film’s restraint:

    “You know you’re watching a really good film when you’re like, yeah, that’s it. That’s it.” (65:34)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “It’s radical politically, but it’s radical artistically as well... to take a terrifying experience and shift this to a place of empathy for my attackers, but I’m gonna make them the heroes.” —Caroline (09:34)
• “He just does it so beautifully, so brilliantly like that. To emphasize the innocence and the childhood of children who society have deemed as monsters.” —Amna (10:51)
• “Unchilding... you remove their childhood, therefore you remove their innocence and the care...” —Amna (40:54)
• “We used to be a country.” —Caroline/Amna in playful, frustrated nostalgia (55:39)
• “Him holding onto the flag in front of the council estate he’s defending is just such an assertion of his place in the country and his home’s place in the country. And it’s just like, I belong here, bitch.” —Amna (61:47)
• “Those boys are my neighbors and they protected me.” —Caroline quoting Sam from film (64:31)
• “That has to be enough for now.” —Caroline, on the unresolved fate of Moses (66:12)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:11] – Caroline & Amna’s personal context, first experiences of the film
• [06:19] – On the role of place and genre blending in the film
• [09:34] – The film’s radical empathy and the “childhood of monsters”
• [13:25] – Joe Cornish’s process, youth groups, dialect authenticity
• [18:45] – Loss of SureStart, youth groups, and the politics of austerity
• [24:59] – How identity politics and representation affect who tells which stories
• [38:51] – The Moses bedroom scene; centering childhood
• [40:54] – Explanation and examples of “unchilding”
• [45:52] – “Too much madness to put in one text” and film’s humor
• [54:25] – Joys of estate life & community
• [59:53] – Moses’ climactic Union Jack moment
• [64:31] – Sam’s line, the boys as neighbors, celebration
• [65:34] – The film’s ending and restraint

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Final Thoughts

• Attack the Block continues to resonate, balancing exhilarating genre elements with unsparing social critique.
• Both hosts champion its portrayal of South London’s complexity—defying stereotypes, giving humanity to those too often maligned in media, and achieving a rare emotional honesty.
• The conversation underscores how political climates impact what stories are told—and who gets to tell them—while celebrating the personal resonance of “seeing yourself” authentically on screen.

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For Listeners:

• If you want a powerful, funny, and radically empathetic take on British youth, race, and belonging—with aliens and some of the best ensemble performances in recent British cinema—seek out Attack the Block. You’ll understand why Caroline and Amna call it “an incredible film” and why, even 14 years on, it still feels so urgent and alive.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Knox]

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[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Hello and welcome to Sentimental Garbage, the podcast where we talk about the culture we love, the society sometimes makes us feel ashamed of. My name is Caroline and called Simon Cowell because aliens got talented and she'd go out there herself as she weren't so profoundly stoned. It's Amna Modine. You do sound like you've come into the podcast profoundly stoned, but you're just a natural giggler.

[Amna Modine]

No, I'm such a giggler. Very excited giggler.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yes.

[Amna Modine]

Thank you for having me.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Thank you for bringing this film into my life. Something that's been on my watch list for so long and it's like, it's always been like, not tonight, not tonight, not tonight. However, I guess because it's. To me it's such a boy movie and I always gravitate towards girl movies. But to finally like sit down with Attack the Block after all these years living in London, living in South London. I immigrated to London the year this came out, to finally watch it as like, you know, 14 years into being a South Londoner, it was such a treat. I mean, it's a treat as South Londoner, but it's a treat as a film because it's amazing. It's an incredible film.

[Amna Modine]

It's such a gem of a film. And also, what a year to come to London.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

So much happened, I know so much happened and it went over my head. I had no idea what was going on.

[Amna Modine]

No, it's such a treat of a film. It's very close to my heart. So I've watched it when it came out with my brothers who I sound like, they say a white girl, but readers, I'm black, whereas they've got more of that East London slang. I came here as a child refugee and I was taught English by this really lovely teaching assistant. So my accent kind of mimics her, whereas my brother's is like the council Estate that we grew up in. So they loved watching this film together.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Because it was like, how many brothers do you have and where do you sit?

[Amna Modine]

You have four older brothers, all younger.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

But that obviously means that because you're. I have a sister as well, but, like, she's 10 years older than me. And then I got my two brothers, like, just up from me. So I'm the baby of four. But, like, you do have a sort of another kind of boy dialect when you grow up with brothers in that way who are close to you in age. And so I can understand why this movie would become, like the dear movie of your household.

[Amna Modine]

Yes. Yeah. It was just so special. I really remember it quite clearly, us watching it together. And then the second time was quite. Was the year afterwards, and it was the first date I had with my husband.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

So, wait, so what was the context for the film? Were you guys.

[Amna Modine]

We were in his room, in his bed.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Oh, my God.

[Amna Modine]

19. He's 21. We've met at university. So 2011 was also like. Do you remember the student movement? I don't know if that also.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And it was like we were going crazy because they were about to triple fees. We kind of met at one of those big London protests. And, you know, he's like lefty white guy wearing a keffir. And I'm like, ooh. So we. Yeah, we were in his room watching this film, and he loved it. And I think that was quite. What's quite good about why he liked it. He, like, loves, you know, Joe Cornish, Ethel Wright, like, I don't know anything about.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. White boy in the kefir.

[Amna Modine]

Of course. Yes, of course he does.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Exactly.

[Amna Modine]

Film is really multicultural.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

It kind of is, in a way, like, you're joking, but it kind of is because it is. It is where, like, sort of what is very. What was, I guess what gets sort of that whole movement of Edgar Wright and Neera park in space and all that. They were such a brilliant slice of London life and what London was, I recognize still so much of my life in space, even though they're supposed to be, like, 25 in, like, 1992. And I was like, why have. Why has my life only just gotten to their level now? Crazy. But it's like they're very white worlds. Right. And so it does feel like different kinds of Britain coming together, you know?

[Amna Modine]

It really does.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

I mean, we watched space, too, and I remember being like, what? This feels like a completely different language. Yeah. Whereas Chris does. I think sometimes it's really quite funny. When he sat with my four brothers and he doesn't understand what they say.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

He's just like, yeah, bro. Yeah, he's gonna hate me.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

So when you think of your four brothers, do you think of the boys in this movie? Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And it's really annoying for them because they're in their 20s now.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

In my head, they're always just that.

[Amna Modine]

They'Re just 14 year olds who are really annoying.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Just like lying about playing football and pepperoni pizza.

[Amna Modine]

Exactly, exactly.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Would you. Would you be interested in giving us a little bit of a plot summary before we get into the main chat?

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, sure. So this film is set in South London. I think it's the Wyndham estate. I used to think it was New Year's Eve, but it's actually Guy Fawkes Night.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yes.

[Amna Modine]

The fireworks where it starts off. And you've got Jodie Whittaker, who just looks so beautiful in this. She really does. She's a breakout role. I didn't realize.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. Before that her main credit was St Trinian's. A movie I had no love for.

[Amna Modine]

I love that film. I love terrible films like that. But, yeah, so she's coming back and then it's so interesting because you go from this, like, lively London atmosphere to like, the scariest state that she's going into.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

That opening shot, I was like, oh, I'm sad. I'm sad because it's like we have this kind of picture of the cosmos and it's like beautiful, starry sky or whatever, winter's night. And you see something moving in the sky that you're like, oh, it's an alien movie. And then you just pan down slowly and you have Oval Tube Station. And it's this brilliant thing of like the kind of celestial kind of genre movie meets the most, like, pragmatic, unpretty part of London. I can think of, like, Oval Tube Station. You know, I've come out of there so many times and it's like, you're immediately like, okay, we're one of these.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, exactly. I think the setting, it's basically its own character, isn't it? It's such a melding of worlds. But I just love how quickly the film just begins to start.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

So no messing around.

[Amna Modine]

You barely take a breath. I'm like, oh, my God. And Jodi Whittaker, I think her character's called Sam, is robbed by these teenage boys who think they're in a gang. And then the mugging gets interrupted by an alien attack. So the essence of the film that These aliens come to attack this South London council estate, and these boys and Jodie Whittaker are there to defend it.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, to defend the Blanc.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. And it's. Okay. So let's kind of land ourselves in those early moments as well, because it really. They are frightening. And it's so strange because, you know, he's quite clearly referencing ET with the whole idea of, like, little, like, suburban boys on bikes riding around, getting into mischief. But, like, what? Boys on bikes getting into mischief has such different meanings culturally and situationally. You put that in, like, some suburbs in New Jersey, and it's like, well, they're building tree houses and they're stealing pies out of windows, and you put that in a South London sort of estate situation, and you're like, oh, the mischief has a different tenor, and it has, like, a different. It's, like, charged differently kind of thing. And it's like. It really made me think immediately. I was like, oh, this idea of boys on bikes is such a wholesome, pastoral thing. But, like, when you put it, you know, in a London setting and, like, the. And it's also think about the way in which those kinds of boys are portrayed as, well, like black boys, poor boys or whatever. Suddenly, boys on bikes becomes a different definition, and it's like a threat. It's immediately a threat. And like, that. That instantly caught me. It was like, wow.

[Amna Modine]

Like. But what was quite interesting was the contradictions of. As well, like, Moses is. So. He's the lead character played by John Boyega. I think it was his first. His first thing. So sweet.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Like, instantly a star. It should be. And introducing John Boyega. Exactly.

[Amna Modine]

The contradiction of how young they are. And this horrific thing that they're doing is just there. And it starts so sharply and it stays with you throughout the film.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And they don't flinch either, because, like, Joe Cornish is obviously a funny person and a funny writer, and it gets funny quite quickly after that. But in the mugging, there's nothing funny about it. And you're like, if this happens, if this happened to anyone, we'd be fucking shitting ourselves, you know?

[Amna Modine]

And, like, Sam's, like, fear is just done so well. I think even just the contrast between her eyes and her face against the dark backdrop. And I don't know if I did some research, but Joe Cornish got mugged. And he was inspired by that to write this. And I was reading the interview he did with the BBC, and he was saying, like, the main thing that he took away from it was one I'm Just going to allow this to happen. I'm too terrified to do anything else.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Smart.

[Amna Modine]

And two, wow, these kids are really young. And he kind of said that he felt like he was in a play and they were both playing their characters and it was just going through the motions of what was happening. And I just thought, God, how brilliant to go from quite a horrific, traumatic moment to create something that takes quite a person. Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Like, if you're listening to this, Jo, I hope you are. I really hope you are, because I. There's, like, it takes quite a person to take such a terrifying experience like that. And, like, I'm gonna shift this to a place of, like, not just empathy for my attackers, but I'm gonna make them the heroes of a story. You know, it's just crazy.

[Amna Modine]

It's so remarkable that that was, like, the starting point and that he saw something that so many of our politicians and people in positions of power never see, which was these kids, humanity and their childhood. He places. I think it's really interesting, he places violence in, like, the normal rhythm of childhood. Like, straight after the mugging, one of the characters calls their mom to say, yeah, I'm gonna come back in time for the curfew.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, in my 10. My favorite bit of dialogue from this whole movie. I thought it was so good. Where he's on the phone, one of them's on the phone to their mom and saying, yeah, I've eaten pepperoni pizza. You gave me the money. I just, like, I hadn't thought of that thing that your parents ask you and your kid, where did you get the money?

[Amna Modine]

Exactly. And when they're running back, so they decide, okay, there's more aliens. We're going to. We're going to get them. Which is, like, great and hilarious. They're going into their bedrooms and you just see, again, just constant. He's bringing them back to their childhood, to them being children.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

Because even. And I think Sam plays that character, like, kind of almost that white middle. I don't think she's middle class, but I think where she doesn't see them as children, I think near the end, she's quite surprised by. But I just thought, wow, he just does it so beautifully, so brilliantly like that. To emphasize the innocence and the childhood of children who society have deemed as monsters.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

It's just such a quiet. There's a quiet radicalism.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I think it's so radical. It's radical politically, but it's radical artistically as well. Like, if we think of who Joe Cornish was in the 90s. And people in this country will know very well that Adam and Joe were this real. They were like the podcasters before we had podcasters. You know, they obviously had a radio show, but the way they treated it was with a kind of like, we. We do sort of mad stuff and we play with toys and we like do stunts with each other. And they were such a phenomenon. And like, I would imagine that there were many people who were like, I want to make Joel Cornish's movie with him. But I imagine the movie they wanted to make was like something like space. Do you know what I mean? Or something that's like real two mates who are best mates being best mates kind of thing, getting into hijinks in Camden or something like that. And the thing he makes, he's like, no, I'm going to. First of all, I'm gonna make incredibly difficult to make genre movie for not very much money. Like this is. This cost £8 million, which sounds like a lot of money, but officially counts as a low budget movie. And also I think I'm thinking this because I'm going into shooting my own first thing soon. So I really do relate. I'm like, really like, I'm so excited.

[Amna Modine]

I know. Thank you so much. It's so exciting in the group chat. We'll be cheering you on on that. Just a quick shout out to Roz. He's so excited that I'm on this podcast. Podcast. Hi, Roz. She's gonna be so happy.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Sometimes people screen grab me their group chats that are chatting about this and it is the best feeling ever.

[Amna Modine]

It's honestly nothing I don't need.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I don't need any kind of podcasting award. I just need screen grabs of group chats. That's all I need. But like, to first of all make an action genre movie about aliens. And also, like, I know it sounds like nothing, but like, to have the whole thing at night and over one night. Like, it is so expensive to shoot things at night. It's so hard to shoot things at night. Literally, you're dealing with people who are underage, so you only have a specific amount of their time anyway. Everything takes longer to shoot at night because people are tired. People, like, literally, if you think about the amount of electrics and wiring involved in making anything, you can't even see. Do you know what I mean? You can't even fucking see stuff. The margin for error is so much higher.

[Amna Modine]

So much.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And the whole movie, that really struck me. I'm sorry if that's so nerdy. But it really struck me it must have been so, so hard to make physically. But also like the amount of time Joe Cornish spent on this script and spent on this research, like, famously, he spent a lot of time with youth groups and became like really quite good friends with some of the people who emerged from those youth groups. And like, like really getting dialect down. He would, he would sort of record these whole days he spends with these kids and then he would like type them up at night. And he said he refused to hire anyone to help him type them up because he wanted to get into the flow of the language more. Like that is like, that's.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, that's really in it. Like, particularly because I think he went to the Westminster School.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yes.

[Amna Modine]

Like one of the really posh London private schools. But I say this all the time, but white people who grew up in South London, I just built differently. They really are like, they're just. Especially if they live. They live near some of the bigger estates and it's just like the norm that they've got black friends. They're part of the black community. I just, I found them to just be, you know what, one of us, I dare say.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

God. Do you know what makes me really happy that I'm gonna have kids who grow up in South London?

[Amna Modine]

It's. It's just they're made different. I don't know.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I think it's because South London is so obviously, like, it's a really black area. But like, lots of areas in London are black. It's because there's no fucking tubes and everyone's bundled on buses together. It's like, well, we're all here together. There's no separation.

[Amna Modine]

Let's integrate.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Let's talk, let's chat. The buses on diversion.

[Amna Modine]

Let's chat.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

But yeah, Joe Cornish talks about he grew up in Stockwell and like, like, and he's very much cops to being sor Of a middle to upper class kid. But he's like, I would walk through the estates to sort of get wherever. And he liked how much. He loved the spaces and about how much these huge buildings, they do feel futuristic and the walkways that go through them and how they sort of almost seem like sort of big cruise ship liners or spaceships in themselves and how architecturally interesting they are.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't think brutalism is beautiful, but I do understand that they came from this moment of like actual social housing being built in this country and like another way of living providing for the working class. And then they were just Allowed to rot. No investment was put in them. And then the film, I think, is so interesting, comes at a time where David Cameron, that guy, that guy, remember him? He was, like, really railing against what he called Sinkhole Estates and kind of committed to destroying these estates like Wyndham. And so it just, I think by.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Destroying, did he mean, like, bulldozing them.

[Amna Modine]

Or, like, bulldozing them and putting up some new flats? And you see that happening all over South London. I mean, everywhere in London right now. Yeah. And the idea was the way it was built was, like, allowing criminality to be ingrained. You get, like, these, like, alleyways and corridors and, like, you have to know the estate well enough to be able to jump to that right place to escape the alien. Like, I thought that was so interesting. Like, these kids know the architecture of this place so intimately. And that mirrors running away from the police. And, like, the Tories were, like, trying to be really hot on that, which felt ridiculous to me, but they were like, you know, this place, this is where I, like, drugs and crime is, like, really rampant.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

That's so ridiculous. They're literally citing the geography of the building.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah. Instead of just being like, maybe we should just fund.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Fund these areas, fund repairs. What? Like, I've never heard that before. That is so insane. Because what was also happening around this time? So, like, you know, this is. This comes out in 2011, May 2011, the London riots that also spread to different parts of the country. Happens a couple of months later in August. At the end of that month, I.

[Amna Modine]

Move over three great moments in London's history.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

The release of Attack the Block, the London riots, carrying out who's moved Elephant and Castle.

[Amna Modine]

Literally.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I was there the day after the riots ended. There was, like, broken glass on the street. And, like, so it was therefore, it was kind of written sort of 2008, 2009, and Joe Cornish famously consulted all these youth groups. But then, like, from 2010 on through, all the kind of, like, 20 teens, David Cameron's government defunded all of these youth groups that has, like, we have the numbers now. Enough time has passed. There's this huge study that came out in the BBC in 2024 that was like, we can absolutely charge the defunding of these youth groups to the rise in crime of all kinds, rising knife crime, and also the kind of the rise in people dropping out before or, like, GCSE level. Like, it is crazy how much that those that act, how violence, like, has contributed to, like, significantly worse lives for so many people in this country.

[Amna Modine]

I mean I remember at the time when I was. When we were like really campaigning against the austerity drive that was coming.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And like at university you had those super political people, hi me really annoying and you had those just like fair enough. We wanted to do their degrees.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And I just found it. But I really felt like something awful was coming, like something horrible is coming. These community centers were just like such a lifeline for families like mine. But Even things like SureStart, you know.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Sorry I didn't grow up here.

[Amna Modine]

So what is SureStart ShoreStart were these. It was one of the few really great things that New Labour did were early childcare centers that they just put in really deprived communities and they funded them and they were incredible at tackling childhood poverty in the area. Like for example, for us it was just supporting my mum who was like a recent refugee and helping us with everything with supporting like what the school curriculum is and this is how like even little things like we had. I won't mention which brother struggled at potty training. And I remember really clearly they gave her like these signs like to use with him because he had like this speech delay and it was just. It was amazing. It was. It's actually such a, like it's just a form of vandalism that the Tories came in and took Shaw start away. It completely horrifies me that that happened because it was so central in getting so many young people on the right track really and getting them like. It's just that particularly before you start school, I think a lot about. I had a kid, a couple, he's going to be two in a few weeks time. He's growing up quite middle class and it's been quite interesting to see like all that goes into parenting before they go to reception which is like, you know, the first year short start was that to ensure that there was other support for families who don't have really intensive parents who can put them in private nurseries who can do all this work so you can narrow the gap with the number with kids who start. Who can. Who's been like shown how to read before bed, who's been already you've sorted out their library cards just before they go to school, sorted out school uniforms so that you're not embarrassed and you're turning up in like horrible crap that you can be buried in. And it's. It shocked me because it was such a cheap thing. I think every pound they spent they got like three pound out of it.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Fuck me, it's crazy.

[Amna Modine]

Oh, like gone. The whole thing gone.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And like, and just like after school stuff. I know we're sounding very social workers but like just the idea that they would come out with this theory like that the architecture of a space was the reason for criminality was like. No, the reason for criminality is like you got a lot of kids who probably like both parents are employed in like low wage jobs. Therefore there's no money or resource for anyone to look after them after school. Therefore they just sort of get bored and sort of vandalize and then it sort of like kind of goes from there. It's just like we already know that like particularly when it comes to boys, that testosterone is like we have come up with army in the priesthood to manage it. Like we, like, we like every society has its own way of dealing with testosterone. If you don't deal with it, it just becomes like vandalism and violence and like, and like just, and like just.

[Amna Modine]

They were again not to go on all about social programs but like we were paid to go to sixth form. I remember that my brothers are like a Spanish, but it was called Ema. Can't remember what it stood for. But I was given 30 pound a week to go to school. And I was like, I would never be late to a class again.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

What a perfect amount of money to incentivize a 17 year old. Like 30 pounds. It's like, it's not like you can't go crazy with it but like, but.

[Amna Modine]

It will make a difference. That's a top.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

That's a top.

[Amna Modine]

And it's like now you don't have that. Why would you go to something that costs you money or someone else can draw you into the like dark economy.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. Jesus.

[Amna Modine]

Wow. It was, it was a crazy time.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

So in that like, so obviously if we took these boys that we're following in this movie, they have like fallen down the crevice that we're just talking about. They're like people who are not being scooped up by any schemes. There's no sort of like exceptionalism happening here. They're just regular boys who are just going around looking for some money and so something to do, whatever. And like, so they mug Sam and then that is interrupted by a alien crash landing into a silver Volvo. And then that alien sort of like pounces out and attacks Moses and he ends up killing it. And it's like. I don't know if you've ever seen this meme. It's one of my favorites. It's like a meme that Goes around every now and then that says, I don't know about you guys, but if ET Landed in my hometown, we would have killed it with rocks. And it's very much that they kill it, because that's boys. Of course they kill it. Of course they don't befriend it. Of course they kill it. Boys.

[Amna Modine]

They're just like. And like all of the dialogue after it is so good. They're like, welcome to London, motherfucker.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

They're so thrilled. There is nothing in them that's like, oh, what if it was sent to you? Michael has feelings.

[Amna Modine]

No.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Welcome to London, motherfucker.

[Amna Modine]

I loved it. I loved this. Like when they were walking back to the estate and they're going through Sam's purse and they're like, she's a nurse. They barely get paid anything.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. Why is your. Why are you always robbing poor people? Like, there's not a second of guilt where they're like, we robbed a nurse. And there's no like. There's no like moment where they pan to one of the boys faces and he's like, oh, maybe he's not too sure about what they've just done. They're like, no, she's poor.

[Amna Modine]

Ew. And it's so 15 year old.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

It's so boys. It's so boys. And like, it's really daring as well, because I think, you know, I kept thinking naturally, like, what. In what ways would this film be different were it made now? And I think we would probably get a lot more conversation that might not have been constructive necessarily about like, should a white man be telling the story?

[Amna Modine]

Oh, my God, yes. Yes.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

We would have gotten a lot of that. And it would have been a lot of Joe Cornish sitting on panels, like having to prove how much research he did. And like, I don't know, how do you feel about that in terms of like. Cause to me it's like, well, clearly this person has spent a lot of time and resource on getting this exactly right. And also satirizing himself in it by like, basically his self insert is a sort of posh, white, rich stoner who's just like buying weed off Nick Frost.

[Amna Modine]

And he's like listening to grime. And then he is a bit terrified when the kids come in. Such a good scene.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

It's so like, he's like a silly character, but he's also completely based in reality that character. And like, I think there would be a lot of like your. It would have been like sort of morally well informed, but probably would have caused A bit more harm than good. Of like, well, you shouldn't have made this movie. Somebody else should have instead. And be that as it may, there's still like a. Well, somebody was in a position. Position where someone gave 8 million quid to make a movie and they made this great movie.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Where do you want that? Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

I. I actually question whether it would be made because you have to go.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Over a lot of.

[Amna Modine]

To make it. I. I wouldn't blame someone like Joe to be like, that's a can of worms that I don't want to get involved in.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And I think what the other thing that the 2010s were really known for and I definitely took part in this, were just like a really crazy form of like identity politics.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. And we're only now just waking up to her and being like, what the fuck was that about?

[Amna Modine]

Like, we've all been in a trance and been like.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Like, it was nuts. We went nuts there. I'm not saying we deserve all the right wing fascism, but we didn't. We don't not deserve something.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah. I think it's the way I can describe it. When I started to learn about, like, white privilege was when I was at university. I felt really empowered by it.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

I thought especially. And then you're learning about male privilege and you're like, shut the fuck up.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I didn't have the guts to.

[Amna Modine]

Until I was like.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Oh.

[Amna Modine]

And like, particularly in social circles in the left, it was funny. I definitely abused it.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Oh, we all abused it. I might definitely abused like the MeToo movement from my own gain.

[Amna Modine]

But I'm an intersectional feminism now that I see. I'm just like.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

But every time you see that phrase now, you're just like, I'm scared. But we could not stop saying it. And then, and then it was intersectionality in feminism.

[Amna Modine]

No. Then we went to white feminism and now we just cut to the chase. Call any annoying white woman Karen.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I'm like.

[Amna Modine]

And then. That's kind of misogynistic, lads.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. I don't know what it is we believe anymore. We're so un united.

[Amna Modine]

We're. Yeah, it was, it was horrible. And I don't. Yeah. I don't think a project like this would have been made because people who are losers, I'm happy to call them that. Cancel me, cancel me, loser. Who would be on like, Twitter, don't know anything about the project. And they would just start a hate train.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And it's quite shocking how quickly that can spill into real life.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Totally.

[Amna Modine]

So I Think it was a movement to try to get, like, more writers of color, you know, more artists to be able to tell these stories and tell any other story that they want. But what's kind of happened is you get these, like, really awkward press releases, particularly as a journalist. It's like, by the way, he's black and he's from this really poor estate, and he's exploring black masculinity. And it just sounds awful. I'm sorry. And I'm like, I don't get. There's no plot.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I'm sure whatever the person's working on is great for its own merits and has its own things or whatever, but it's like the way in which the press release has gone with it is being like, black guy writing about black stuff.

[Amna Modine]

Honestly. And I get it with publishers. Cause they really want you to stand out. Like, I published my book. The paperback just came up.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Very nice. And what's that book called?

[Amna Modine]

Scattered.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Scattered.

[Amna Modine]

But it's. Yeah, it's just me describe. I describe talking about my life as a child refugee in Kenya surviving the Somali Civil War. When I wrote in it, I couldn't. I really understood why, but so much of the emphasis was, this is a refugee writing a refugee story. Authentic voices. And I'm like, I am really funny, guys.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And this is me, like, massively just taking the piss out of everything. And my parents, they have such dark humor. And I had an amazing editor, Allegra, at Bloomsbury, who really understood it. But when we were pitching it initially to different publishers, that's all they could see.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And what time were you pitching it? What year?

[Amna Modine]

It was 2022. So the backlash really hadn't come in.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right.

[Amna Modine]

And then that. It's not now now. It'd be like, get away. I don't think anyone's getting in fucking.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Really? Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

I feel like people have talked about that wave is over. Am I just like. But. But I do think a lot of. Just to go back to what you're saying, I think diverse books for the sake of. It is bad.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. Because it sort of positions this lens that's like the most any kind of black person, a trans person, whatever. The most they have to offer us is a view on their blackness or their transness or their refugee ness or whatever. And it sort of flattens their entire character to that. And it's like. And similarly, the thing of, like, would Joe Cornish be arsed even making this today? Cause the backlash would be so annoying.

[Amna Modine]

So annoying.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And also, like, commissioners are always looking for more reasons to say no. And they'll just be like, I don't know, you're kind of a posh white guy. Maybe not. But similarly, it's like, would a black filmmaker, I guess, you know, Ryan Coogler and stuff, is really, you know, doing amazing stuff. But like a British black filmmaker being allowed to make a huge genre movie with aliens that are just like, you know, guys in gorilla suits with gloves on teeth, you know, it's like. Or where they want him to make, you know, Top Boy or kiddulthood or adulthood or make something really social realist. It's what we allow people to do. It's like giving. We don't give women the power of satire sometimes. It's like something I always think about, like Hannah Horvat in Girls is like, it's satirical.

[Amna Modine]

I know. Love the little comeback it's having though. I watched it for the first time.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Really?

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Enjoying it?

[Amna Modine]

I just finished it. Amazing. It is a work of genius.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

It is a work of genius. And that character is a work of profound satire. But they were like, she's so annoying.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

She's a 25 year old girl. No way could she be able to make satire. And similarly, even though some of like, like some of the greatest people in science fiction, like, are. Are not white, like fucking like Octavia Butler and Kindred and stuff, like, we're still being like, no, the kind of. The job of people who aren't white is to write sort of social realist things that makes the rest of us feel bad for two minutes. But like, we've had a nice vitamin.

[Amna Modine]

You've taken your iron tablets.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Exactly. You've taken your iron tablet of black girls or white girls.

[Amna Modine]

No. I guess what I found frustrating about that, we should be very critical of that. But we shouldn't terrify white people from not writing black characters, which I kind of feel like is happening or has happened or terrify. You know, I'm CIS for me being able to write if I wanted to a trans character, I'd be terrified of doing it now. Whereas, like, I think that's important. I think that's really good.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I think it's really important. Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And I kind of want to just.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Not just, not just politically but like artistically as well. Because we are stuck in what I would think of. Like, it's a very autobiographical artistic movement that we're sitting in right now. Like I, I, you know, like Past Lives by Celine Song or whatever.

[Amna Modine]

My favorite films.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Lovely, lovely movie. Like lovely quiet movie. But like you know, very much. It was like the way that movie was marketed and shown to us was like, this is like basically Celine Song's autobiography and, and that kind of thing. And like, I think of like a real pain, Jesse Eisenberg. And that was very much front footed with like, I am Jesse Eisenberg. I am part of the sort of Jewish diaspora. I like, these are the experiences that are like the ones I've had in concentration camps and stuff. And I think these stories are valuable. But I also find imagination and sort of like using huge metaphor, using genre equally, if not more valuable.

[Amna Modine]

You know, I feel like Joe Cornish bringing in like, you know, Shaun of the Dead. That vibe to this film was hugely disruptive to. At the time there was like loads of films that I think now is described as like hoodie horror.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And Attack the Block's so interesting because it completely challenged those films. So it's like, you know, Eden, I don't know if I'm very good.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Eden Lake is that one.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, Eden Lake. Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

Harry Brown and Cherry Tree Lane. I don't. I haven't watched these films because I'm not very good with horror.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

No, me neither. This is about as much as I can take on. Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And was really fascinating about that time. It was essentially black kids or white working class kids who were wearing these like hoodies from these kind of estates doing horrific things.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

So he's come and create like really played especially that opening scene we were talking about with that genre. I think only he could really have done that. Like he was seeing something there and like his history of comedy kind of filtered into that and it broke us away from that, I think.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

So.

[Amna Modine]

I just think it's. It's completely fascinating that he did it. And more people, white people, write more black characters. I will defend you.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. Oh my God.

[Amna Modine]

I will defend. I don't have any social media presence.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

But you're gonna just have this like sort of cottage industry where you rubber stamp white people that advise projects and you're gonna make so much money doing it.

[Amna Modine]

But isn't that what sensitivity readers are?

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Oh, God, that's a whole. Let's not even get into that today, mate. Let's not even get into it today. Let's go back to talking about scenes.

[Amna Modine]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

So, okay, so we have the kids and they've killed the alien. And then they sort of decide that they're going to take it to Nick Frost's house. Nick Frost is the weed dealer and he gets stoned and he watches David Attenborough all day. Which is a brilliant character to have as like your fixer character. You know what I mean?

[Amna Modine]

He's so good.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And I think your Gandalf, basically, he's the Gandalf of the film. He's like such a stone bad Gandalf.

[Amna Modine]

I can't remember what his name was, but when they were the second time going up to his weed room and they're like, we're going to Nick's weed room. And Sam. Jodi Whitaker goes, what's Sam's weed room? Someone goes, it's Sam's weed room. So stupid, so good.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

But before we get that, we first have them, like, all going home to get supplies and get there, like, get fireworks and get weapons and stuff. And it's such a brilliant scene. It's a very Edgar Wright type scene of, like, lots of quick cuts and door slamming and stuff. And we get like a little slice of each of their home lives and they're all just like, you know, it's. It's so cute because we watch them instantly go from being these terrifying muggers to just being these little boys who, like, are lying about playing football or lying about whatever, like. And it's just so brilliantly, energetically done. And then we have this thing of like, John Boyega goes into his. Or Moses, the character goes into his flat and we just don't see it. It was like a pause and we don't see anything. And then that's it. And it, like, really positions him. He's like a very, like, James Dean type of role here. And it's so. It's. You can so see why this was, like, what launched this huge international career and why he is like one of those celebrities who we just like, oh, you know, we know that kind of thing. Even though, like, you know, I don't know, he's not even that old. Like, you know, it's like he's 33. He's 33, you know. But it was like an immediate thing. Um, it's like he really does this like, perfect thing of, like, between, like, boyhood and manhood.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

That's like. He's so. He's clearly the leader of the group. He's quite sage, he's quite stoic. But, like, there's something just that very rare thing of, like, you want him to protect you, but you also want to protect him, you know?

[Amna Modine]

I think that is exactly it. I felt so protective over him when I was watching. When I was watching the film. And I loved seeing him being so Protective of the other boys.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And it's just such a great hero. He just has such a great heroic arc.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Incredible arc.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah. When you were talking about his bedroom, I actually think. Sorry to keep moving the film on, but when Jodie Whittaker goes into his room, so they. It takes a little while to get her on board that there are aliens attacking. Loads of great scenes of just aliens just fucking up the sustain and the police so good. And then eventually she does, like. There's another cute thing where they realize that she lives in the estate. And then they say, oh, we wouldn't have mugged you babes if we knew.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I know. If we knew you. That was. It was so funny. But it's also, like, such fucking incredible writing as well, because it really gets to a lot. And it really made me think as like. Like a white person who lives in South London. And, like, you know, so. And I've. I've lived all over it at this point. And, like, some, you know, like. Like, technically speaking, if you were to look at, like, crime rates and percentages alone, some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the country, and my parents, who will read these statistics will be like, we're worried about you. And it's like, the thing is, I'm not a black boy between the ages 15 and 25, so it's like we live on different planes of reality. And, like, that's quite like. Like, I've watched countless boys be arrested. I've watched, like, our. Or I've, like, walked by crime scenes that are being cleaned up where someone has clearly died. It is a dark, beautiful neighborhood. You know, it's a dark and beautiful part of the country, but, like, it's like we live on different planes of reality. And Jodie Whitaker lives in a different plane in reality. And, like, even though she lives in this block and she lives in this apartment, she sort of like, they are almost in different dimensions. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And she'd moved in recently, and it's really talking to that level of gentrification that's beginning to happen. So you've got her as a much more serious character of that. And then the other guy, that's clearly Joe Cornish. Sorry, Jo.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, yeah. No, but he said it himself. Like, he's like, that's me.

[Amna Modine]

And I just thought the melding of those two world is, like, what happens at the end of this film. And it's done just so right. It's not too much.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

But it's done really beautifully. And my fate, my favorite scene is when she goes. When they figure out that the reason why the aliens keep specifically going for the kids is that when Moses killed the first alien, it was a female and her pheromones was all over him. And then all these other male aliens are coming towards him because they can smell him.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

So he realizes, which I love, by.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

The way, is like, a little bit of logic, is really fun.

[Amna Modine]

A bit of science.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, why not? A little bit of science?

[Amna Modine]

And he just, like, decides to be a hero, literally, and thinks, I'm gonna go and find a way to draw them out and try to kill them. And as part of this plan, he asks Sam Jodie to go to his. His flat to get his bag.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And it's such a moving scene. I had to rewind it to watch it again because she goes into the flat and he's talking to her on the phone. So you just hear his voice. You don't see him for the first time, really. And you begin to see his, like, Spider man poster. You see all these, like, childhood things.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Unmade single bed with colorful duvet.

[Amna Modine]

And he's like little takeaway box. You then see, like, the absence of any sort of of parental love and support. It's just this uncle that's there but not really there. And yeah, it's such a moving moment because she says, how old are you? That's the first.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

No, first. She says, do you have a little brother?

[Amna Modine]

He's like, no.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

How old are you?

[Amna Modine]

15.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

You look older.

[Amna Modine]

He's like, thanks. Every 15 year old wants to be told.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

But, you know, it's so. It's. Again, I think what's so incredible about this, Joe Cornish's movie as like a first feature as well, is the restraint. Because I think that moment where you see. We see everybody else's home life apart from Moses'. Moses's, your mind instantly goes to, oh, there's some kind of an abusive narrative happening there. And actually it's revealed that the abuse is neglect. Yeah, it's just like. And like that being like all the Moses in the world that are just sort of like doing petty crime and accosting women outside of tube stations generally. There's not some big spooky story where their abuse narrative is just the worst thing you've ever heard. It's like it's because no one fucking cares about them.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah. And there's no one there to support him. No one there to just make sure he has a hot meal. And I just thought, wow, this is so moving. And I just. I Think the fact that he wasn't there for that scene was really beautiful. Cause he's taken away. When you see a 15, 16, 17 year old black boy.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

You're just terrified because of what you've been taught. If you don't come from that community, if they're not your brothers, if you're not, you know, married to them, and he's just, just constantly recentering his childhood. I just think that is so powerful for all of them. Like constantly kind of. I know unchilding is a word, so I don't know what.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Unchilding.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah. So it means, you know, so it's happening quite a lot right now in Palestine. For example. As someone who reports on this, I've been astonished at the length that the British press will go to, to not just say Palestinian children. Right. So when there was like the first ceasefire and the second and you saw a lot of Palestinian prisoners come out, the text was really fascinating because it was really like genuinely human being under the age of 18. And some of the, some of the British press, the print and that is unchilding because we will not acknowledge them as children. And you see this as well with black British people obviously to not the same level of violence, but you remove their childhood, therefore you remove their innocence and the care that even if they've committed a crime, we don't just go, go home, run them, we try to turn it into a learning opportunity and then it normalizes state violence against them. Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Which I suppose why there are so many, historically so many euphemisms for, for young black British boys. Children.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

It's like hoodie, it's ASBOs, it's youths, yobs. It's yobs. It's, you know, whatever. And it's like anything to avoid using the word child.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, yeah. And it's just, it's such a horrific process that I can see in real time when I'm reporting and you can. Yeah. I was just seeing him forcing you to interrogate that. Right. So he's like, this is a child, remember? And like for him to take him away. And I thought the dialogue of her asking how old he was was just like so powerful because it's constantly reminding you this is a child.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

Regardless of what's happening, this is a child.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

But it's also this thing of like this is a child very much like centering their childhood. Absolutely. But also showing that they, because they are children who are growing up in like tough or poor or whatever situations and like in a state where they have to Be tough to survive because we have that drug dealer character who's around. He's so camp, but he's so camp. He's so like DJ Jazzy Jeff, isn't he? The way he's dressed, very like, go home, Roger. Do you know what I mean?

[Amna Modine]

He's such an unserious character.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. I found it hard to be scared of him as well.

[Amna Modine]

Really?

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I know. He's so unserious. You're so right. He's so unserious. But like, you know what I mean? He kind of. He's a stand in for like, you know, you do have to be tough to live here and be a boy and whatever. And like, so like it shows that, like. Yeah. And out of that hardship has grown resourcefulness and resilience and like the way in which at one point they're like, oh, yeah, yeah. It's that great bit where Moses is arrested because Sam identifies him to the police. They put him into a van and then. Right Then the aliens attack the police. Right. And so then the boys, they sort of jack the police van and they're just like, oh, we'll just jack it. And then they just like kind of go down underneath and they're like popped up and they're all right granite. And then they sort of. They sort of drive it through the block or wherever. And like it's this. And you're getting this sort of eye contact between Sam and Moses because they're on either side of this partition wall. But then the alien jumps on top of the van and like starts beating it down. And then they're both. First they were predators to each other.

[Amna Modine]

Yes.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And then they are the prey of something else. And like watching, it's almost like it's not dialogue really, it's watching their physical acting through a partition wall of how they're both behaving. And it's like, it's so crazy because it's like at that point Jodie Whittaker is like probably in her 30s and has done a lot of stuff and is like, you know, a great actress, is like a proper national treasure and we've recognized her as that now. But John Boyka is a 16 year old kid who's never done anything before. And they're just like the way.

[Amna Modine]

Toe to toe.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Like toe to toe and like chemistry through a partition as well.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, it's really hard. I thought their eye contact was just so visceral, so moving. They were saying so much without saying anything at all.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, except they were.

[Amna Modine]

But they were. I Just thought it was so moving. And you really paint very slowly see her move to them, like, move towards them and then choose to be part of their community. They immediately accept her when they realize she's part of the estate. And they're like, oh, yeah, let's try to give her the ring back. Horrible things we did to her. But she took a little while and I thought that was really smart and done in a really good way. But then eventually, once she believes them and sees what they're trying to defend and sees the estate as something worth defending, she just switches and it's just suddenly this really even more chaotic and funny movie. But again, I'm worried we're making it sound like it's very socialist realism.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

No, it's so funny. One of the funniest parts of the movie is just after that scene where they crash the police van into this underground parking space or whatever. And then one of the guys turns around. Sorry about the driving. I'm getting lessons for Christmas. He's so sweet.

[Amna Modine]

My absolute favorite dialogue. I can't remember exactly when it was. It might have been then, as when this kid, one of the kids is like, trying to send a text and he's like, I've got one text left. There's too much madness to put in one text. And I was like, oh, bring back five p texts. Bring back the time and text money, girl.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

All of my problems. So many of my problems would be solved if texts cost money.

[Amna Modine]

And it was like you had two pages and you know when, like, the text is, like, overrunning, so you had to go back to the top page to try to cut it down.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I know. At the edit. The edit function. I can't believe how much life better would. Better life would be if we had to pay again.

[Amna Modine]

That was the only time when it really felt suddenly dated, actually, when I was watching it, because outside of that, it really didn't. And I was like, I miss when texting costs money.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And I wasn't a bad texter.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I know. We were just. Yeah, we were just broke then. It was easier.

[Amna Modine]

Exactly.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Before I had this social label of.

[Amna Modine]

Bad texter, which I love. With 15 voice notes to respond to.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I know. Oh, my God. God, it would. Oh, we could really. Do you know who I want to shout out to, actually? Because I didn't write down any of the books. Boys names that weren't Moses. I love them all. They're great. But this is my first time watching this movie and it moves very quickly and there's a lot of Characters. So I don't know all their names, but I love probs in Mayhem.

[Amna Modine]

Oh, so good. The little kids, the little nine year.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Olds who are called Gavin and Reginald, but they're probs in Mayhem.

[Amna Modine]

It was so sweet, even just showing the difference in like what it means to be a 14 year old boy and what it means to be a 10 year old.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

It's just so good.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

It's so good. And they're like the way, they're kind of the. This is big man stuff.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Go home. Go home. Do your homework. Watching original. So good.

[Amna Modine]

I've watched the film now several times. I can't remember anyone's name other than.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I'm so glad. I'm so glad. That's terrible. And I love these. They're really good. They're really great.

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[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

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[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Start a free trial today on Monday.com. i really want to talk about the girls. The girls are fabulous.

[Amna Modine]

So good.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

They're so good. So the early parts of the movie when they just killed the alien and they're just sort of like touring, that we're really getting a sense of what the block is.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

As you say, it's like it's not enough to save the world. We have to know what world we're saving. You know, we have to really know what we're rooting for. And like, they just sort of like in that way, that kind of way of socializing that you totally forget as a older person where you're just like, oh, yeah, your pals will just be like rocking up outside of McDonald's or something and you just like go up to them and chat for a bit.

[Amna Modine]

Well, you like can just bump into a friend and not text them and be like, let's hang out. And they're Like, I can hang out in February 2026. Just the intimacy of just living near each other and seeing each.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Seeing each other. And that thing of teenhood of just like, there's always just acres of time to stand outside places.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And, like, when they kind of meet up with the girls, it's like, I would love that. Must again, must been so hard to shoot Something else I'm learning about the film business is that, like, anytime, like, generally a production only has one or two cameras. Right. And so every time you do a group start like that. So we've got like two gangs, we've got the five boys and then the. The corresponding girls. About the same number of girls or whatever is that you have to. Like, someone says something and you have to get coverage on every single face, which means you have to reset every single time and say those lines again and again. Like so. So it feels so improv and so breezy or something. And like, these kids have known each other since they were two years old. Like they went to the same Shore Star center together or whatever. It's just like, you just. You're just there and like, that's the flow of like.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And the girls are so funny in their own right. And you can so tell they have their own thing going on. You know, I wanted more of them. I kind of understand it's a boy film. Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

But what I also loved is, like, the difference in dressing. And it's still such a thing now. And with young people in London, where it will be like 35 degrees outside and boys from my mum's estate will still be like, completely zipped up in their big black puffy coat, just completely head to toe, like, dressed like. I spent some time in my early childhood in Sadi Rabi and it just reminds me of a jelly bean, like, fully just covered. And then the girl's like, in nothing. She looks fabulous.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I really could.

[Amna Modine]

Like, I just thought that was so funny. Like, the girls are always like, great little mini skirt, tank top. It's 10 degrees. Why are you wearing that?

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

That's being a teenager, baby. The boys all swaddled up. The girls got nothing at all. But do you know what I loved about those girls? Because we see them again later in the film and they're so funny. They're so great. Like, we see them kind of at their sleepover or whatever. They're all just hanging out. And there's something. It's that typical thing which is always. It remains true. It's a cliche because it's true. That thing of girls just age faster than boys, just socially, they have, like, an idea of hierarchy and care and consequences in sort of an innate way. And they're sort of just like hanging out in their bedroom. And one of the boys calls her and she's like, what does she say? She's like, what? Shut up.

[Amna Modine]

What nonsense are you up to?

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, it's very like, what nonsense is this kind of thing? And she just throws the phone away. And then the boys show up and there's something very nurturing about them. They're all kind of like. They're combing out the boy's hair. Yeah, yeah. She's literally just kind of fussing with his hair a little bit. Like a. Like, it's very maternal.

[Amna Modine]

It really is. It really is. It just. It was a really. And like, that's the only time it's, like, really warm. Like, the coloring of the film is just, like, really inviting. It's really lovely. And, like, I didn't grow up in a massive high rise like that, but I lived near one and our one was like. I think you would call, like, you know, in, like, the Y. Like the low rise and the high rise.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I lived in one of the low.

[Amna Modine]

Rises and one of. I mean, it was always such a joyful experience. It was quite shocking, actually, to see how council estates were covered when I grew up, because it. I just have this really idyllic childhood in my head here.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And one of the joys of that is that it's great that your best friend just lives downstairs.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amna Modine]

I'll be right back. And even though it's, like, quite late, you're just chilling downstairs and the nearness of it just, like, creates this huge level of community intimacy and intimacy that I just remember being really quite. Yeah. Intimately involved in. All my friends, Like, I knew their siblings really well and I knew their mum. And we also knew when, like, their mums went to their second job so we could have the party in that flat.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

That's it. Honestly does sound idyllic. You're so right. It is such a demonized way of life. And it's like. That sounds so lovely.

[Amna Modine]

It's just so nice. The only problem was, like, there were loads of kids shoved in, like, really inappropriately small ones. That was just air. But other than that, I was like this. Maybe I'm being too harsh on brutalism, because how's.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

A lot of people saved a lot of lives.

[Amna Modine]

Exactly. So I did. I felt like, yeah, it made sense that all the girls were Just hanging out on a school night together.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It feels very. Because that's things. Because I write for young people as well. There's a thing of, like. You always have to sort of make it plausible.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Why the young people have so much unchaperoned time, why you get so many orphans. But when you're. You know, there's so many orphans in children's fiction because, like, just. Just parents put a stop to drama, you know. But, like, when you're talking about, like a tower block sort of kids thing.

[Amna Modine]

People just walk in and out of each other's flats, is very open.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Do you know what? It really makes me think that, like, it would be so good to see essentially, like a boarding school film that isn't a tower block kind of thing. Oh, my God.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

We don't. You know what that thing that you're describing, I've seen. I've seen that anywhere. Yeah. You should write a movie. That's what I'm saying. You should do a Cornisher.

[Amna Modine]

Shit. Don't tempt me.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, Like a real. Like I say, Trinians, but for a tower block would be great. It would be so good.

[Amna Modine]

Let's run it together. Let's go. Yeah. I think he. Jericho just really plays with. I think both of how we see these council estates as these sinkhole estates, but to them it's home. It's like this really loving, beautiful place. And I felt it the most when I saw the girls. They just reminded me of me.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

They remind me of you too. Can really see you sitting on that bed. Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

Just like sitting like my brothers. Or like my friends. Brothers. It was just such a. I don't know, open environment and like a really loving one. And my TikTok is like, so specific to me. But I saw this video the other day that was like, oh, when you're trying to go to sleep, but Mum's on, like, this flat 23 and you think the party's finally coming to an end and then suddenly it's like past attention. And I was like, that was such a thing when you grew up in those blocks. Parents were not. Mine were Muslim, but didn't drink. But Paris is getting wasted.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. So great.

[Amna Modine]

Honestly, I didn't do that. And it's like. Because it's so intimate, like, there's not.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Much, you know, where everyone's.

[Amna Modine]

You can hear everyone's pie and people weren't kicking off then. Now they do.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Now they do. What happened to this country, man?

[Amna Modine]

We used to be a country.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

We used to Be a country. I love. Yeah, I love that bit as well. At the. Towards the end where she still. So one of the boys has been injured by the. Also, I love that because of the South London dialect. They never say alien. It's always ilium. Ilium. So good. And, you know, one of the boys gets injured. They go to her for help. Cause she's a nurse and everything. And she kind of snaps at them.

[Amna Modine]

That she's like, I don't want to be involved in your gang shit.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, exactly. And she's like, you know, I'm thinking, you know, I haven't lived here long, but I'm thinking of leaving. And they're like, why? He's like. She's like, I don't like the area. And they're like, what's wrong with the area? Like, you mugged her one hour ago.

[Amna Modine]

And there were aliens literally tearing people apart. So that was great, I think. Yeah. That was such a funny scene. I think. Yeah. It really shows, like, who can, like, leave those and who maybe does do feel a bit trapped in it. But they just love the block. They love the block.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

They love. I love that they love the block. And then we have. I mean, the thing is, what we're skipping over because we're being girls is. Is like all these incredible action sequences.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

But like, I. You know what? Talking. For me, talking about action sequences is bit like talking about guitar solos. I know.

[Amna Modine]

I couldn't tell you.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I'm glad that people can make them and they're thrilling. I just don't know how to breathe into them. I guess. Like, the only thing that, like, I can really. I really love is that, like, how practical, effecty and pragmatic it is. Like, the fact that, like, a one, like. Like through a big chunk of the movie, they're like. They've jacked like a moped for like an unlicensed sort of TV pizza delivery thing, you know? And they're just like hooning around on that. And at one point when a guy is just like, like stuck in a big bin. And it's also. It's funny, but it's also so cool.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And using what's there, rather than trying to create like some kind of bad CGI effect or something. Like, there's this one bit where, like, there's like steam from a moped or steam exhaust from a motor moped by kind of a green traffic light. And that's kind of. The smoke goes green. It's like using what real London really feels like at night. But, like, Just like, turning up the cinema and turning up the magic, you know?

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, no, it's. I just. I was absolutely astonished to learn that the monsters weren't cgi.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. Just gorilla suits and glowing teeth. Crazy.

[Amna Modine]

I was like. Because they really felt out of this world.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

The way everything was done just felt. Yeah. Just like smashing of these genres of, like, sci fi and then this, like, you know, kind of urban London film. But it's just. It's just so cleverly done.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

It's interesting because something that he said that Joe Cornish said was that he's like, you know, he's like, oh, I've always loved movies that, like, genre movies that deal with, like, sort of social realism. And you see that a lot in American films. You see that a lot in, like, Night of Living Dead and all that kind of stuff. But you don't really see it in British cinema. You see. You don't see a lot of genre in general. You see a lot of social realism, but not a lot of the other thing. Why do you think that is?

[Amna Modine]

Ooh, like.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Cause there was like, Hammer horror was British, but, like, that was very much like, it's a horror film. Don't think too hard about it.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have no. I'm not a very big film girl. I just watch it and I. I never see the ending coming. Even when it's so obvious. I will sit there gasping in shock, and it's like, everyone saw that coming.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Do you know what? This ending. I am a movie girl. And this ending did shock me in a way. And once again, it shocked me. Because of the restraint.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Because like, I was reading something about. Someone was writing about the Devil Wears Prada recently, and they said, that's a great movie, but it takes too many bows. And I was like, you're so right. It takes so many bows. Because you have Andy throwing her phone in the fountain in Paris. Should be the last scene of that movie. But then she, like, gets a new job. But then she, like, makes up with her ex boyfriend. But then she makes meaningful eye contact with Miranda Priestley. It's like, just end the movie at the fountain. We know. We know she'll be fine.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And like, this does the exact opposite. So it's like we. It's too quick. It's too quick, but just quick enough, really. But also perfect. So we have Moses, like, big self sacrificing, sort of run through the building. He's drawing the aliens out, and then it kind of. He sort of ends up throwing himself off a balcony. And he's literally, like, hanging onto a Union Jack.

[Amna Modine]

Oh, my God. That moment is so inspiring.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

It got me that moment, I think, as well, because of the. The time that's. That we're recording right now. Like, Britain's loving the flags. Britain's loving the flags right now. Loving the flags. And, like, the St. George's Cross is everywhere. Like, if someone's listening to this in the future. There was a moment in 2025 where we lost the plot, where we continue to lost the plot. And, like, where St. George's flags were being just erected all over the country as a. As a kind of, like a racial hostility thing.

[Amna Modine]

Having a national identity crisis. One of those.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

One of those again. And. Yeah, and so, like, something about having John Boyega hanging from a Union Jack, it's just, like, actually ruin me.

[Amna Modine]

It's so powerful.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

It's so powerful.

[Amna Modine]

I think, particularly we've just come off one of the biggest fascist protests in this country's history. I think 150,000 went to that Tommy Robinson Unite the Kingdom protest. There were people there chanting, there's no black in the Union Jack. And I just thought, wow, this is off the back of last summer where people were trying to burn refugees and migrants in hotels. They were stopping people in cars and seeing if the driver was black or Asian to let them through. So we're just in this quite crazy moment. And I don't think those at the top are really clocking it or they don't care. And it just feels like a film. But how is it touching on this moment so well, nearly 15 years later? It's just extraordinary to me because I feel like him holding onto the flag in front of the council, the Council of State that he's defending, is just such an assertion of his place in the country and his home's place in the country. And it's just like, I belong here, bitch.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Bitch. Totally.

[Amna Modine]

I'm not going anywhere.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

But not just I belong here, like. Cause it's such a. I mean, that's a real. That really fucks me up, that stuff. Like, that sort of. That just as a theme in general really fucks me up. But, like, the idea that, like, first of all, like, Britain isn't just, like, white guys and their dogs and statues of Winston Churchill and whatever the fuck you want to name. You know, it's like. It is like, you know, young boys of African and Caribbean descent just, like, standing up for their neighborhood. Do you know what I mean? And it's not just, we're here, it's like, we're here and we saved the day. And it makes me think so much of, like, how this country, country runs on diaspora, like, diaspora after diaspora after diaspora. It's like people like the old Irish lads that, like, built the roads here, the, like, Windrush generation, like, propping up the nhs, like, all these people does not. This country does not function without us. Do you know what I mean?

[Amna Modine]

Tommy Robinson posted a picture of being like, this is who. This is who built the country. And the picture was of Irish laborers. He. I was actually. People were telling him, these are migrants, babes. This is a diaspora community that you're posting. And then I remember at the time, I remember I interviewed. I think it was someone from ukip. I get to do so much fun things for my child. And he was saying to me, you know, I don't have a problem with people like you because you guys come from the former colonies. And I was like, mate, what do you want?

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

About.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, he was like, I think he thought I was Jamaican.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Oh, I see. Great.

[Amna Modine]

So he was just like, you know, you. That you would call it the mother country. It's like, did we. And it just.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

That is wild.

[Amna Modine]

It was rose tinted glasses of a former immigrant group. But it's so time and place. And I think right now it's back more classic racism against black people and Asians.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Wow. God, what a day we're having.

[Amna Modine]

I know.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I feel like Ash Sarko podcasts never usually like this. Love it.

[Amna Modine]

It. Very cool, very political.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Cool girl politics over here. So we, as I said, this is a movie that really knows how to take its bow. So we have that last action scene with Moses hanging from the jack, which made me cry. And then the. Then it's like the. The threat is over. The police go in, they arrest all the boys who have saved the day.

[Amna Modine]

And they're cheering for them, though the crowd, they're like saying, Moses. It's.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

So we have Jodie Whittaker saying. And this also made me cry, saying to the police, like, those boys are my neighbors and they protected me. Those boys are my neighbors is like, what?

[Amna Modine]

Like, they're friends. They're friends and they're community and they're.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Beholden to one another. And that's very beautiful. And yeah, just like everybody just screaming and just like, oh, it's just like hundreds of people who saw what happened.

[Amna Modine]

Who knew what happened. And yeah, I just thought it was so right that they got arrested. Like, not that they got. Sorry.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

No, it was right narratively, narratively, like.

[Amna Modine]

That Even though they were able to, like, kill those aliens, there were these other huge, much bigger forces at play. And just. But they weren't sad, right? They were just smirking at each other in the van. And, like, the other kid, I can't remember his name was like, moses, they're cheering for you. I just thought, even in that moment, it was so good, it was so beautiful, and it just ends. And I. You know, you're watching a really good film when you're like, yeah, that's it. That's it.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Right? And, like, again, a lesser film, that's like, you know, again, the work you come back to with Joe Cornish is restrained. A lesser film would have shown, like, six months later. Moses, you got a call. It's like him in prison going up to the fucking. The partition glass, and it's Jodie Whitaker.

[Amna Modine]

I'm gonna get you out.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I'm gonna get you out, and you're gonna live with me.

[Amna Modine]

It's like Story of Tracy Beaker or something.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Do you know what I mean? It's like, no, it's like we tilde but London Estate. Yeah, exactly.

[Amna Modine]

And it's like, adopt him.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And where it leaves us. We don't know whether Moses is gonna be okay long term, but we do know that he's really loved.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah. And that has to be enough for now.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

That has to be enough for now. And maybe it will be different in the sequel, which apparently is Oncomin.

[Amna Modine]

They've been teasing it in the last four years.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

They've been teasing it a while.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah. So I have to say, as well.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

It'S not like, you know, I hope Joe Cornish has been listening to this podcast.

[Amna Modine]

Joe, I respect you deeply, but, like.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

He has had some incredible, you know, opportunities. He did Ant man, he did Tintin, but, like, in terms of, like, something like this again never happened. And, like, just come back to the uk, Joe, make. This is the moment.

[Amna Modine]

We need this film.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

We need more Joe Cornish films. Like, so, like, badly. We need Attack the Blanc, too, as a matter of urgency.

[Amna Modine]

It will save us.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

It will save us. Here's something interesting. So, like, the. As we said already, a couple months after this came out, London riots happened. And, like. And also carrying on, who moved to London after this big, big day. But from what I recall, obviously I was so new to the country and new to, like, the various different dynamics happening, and I. But I don't remember for international listeners, the riots around that time broke out because, in part, there was this young guy called Mark Duggan who was shot by a Police officer in Tottenham. And then the. The riots kind of spiraled out of control after that and then they actually spread all around the country, you know, and I remember very clearly there being very little sympathy for the fact that Mark Duggan was. Was killed by a police officer at all. Like, even, like among the one. Like, the more lefty people I'd sort of met. There was just sort of even, like. Well, you know, it's very complicated, you know, it's very hard for the police.

[Amna Modine]

It's very tough, you know, even in the coverage. Like, I think by the end of the coverage, people wouldn't know why the riot started. It was just like.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

Described as rank criminality and just left that. That. The Guardian did this project called Reading the Riots and they got so much heat for it at the time, really, because they. They said, we actually need to figure out why this happened. And in any normal society, a government would turn around and say, we need to have like some sort of commission and actually interrogate, why did this happen? And we did that in the 1981 riots.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

Which quite interesting, you know, Joe Cornish lived through, like, it happened in his area. They really influenced him. Right. We just didn't do any of that this time round. So the Garden did this really incredible project called Reading the Riots and it interviewed the people who were writing. And so Mark Duggan came up so many times, but then so did poverty. So did. Actually. I actually just wanted to have a bit of fun.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amna Modine]

But it was really interesting because it really showed. I just. Yeah. We were so uninterested to dig into why this was happening. And then it was Keir Starmer, who was the head of the Prosecution Service at the time, really, and he set up all these insane night courts and people would just be, like, shuffled through. It was really quite dystopian, actually, where. And then they were, like, prosecuted for.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

The part in the riots. Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And it would be like you picked up a 50p bottle of water. Here you go. Two years in jail. It was.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Oh, my God, I never.

[Amna Modine]

Staggering. So he's always had that kind of authoritarian God. Little flex in him. And it. There was just no sympathy. It was really scary to wanted to show sympathy for what was happening at the time because you were being slammed down for it. But also, even in our communities, like, not everyone could understand why this was happening and it was our communities being burnt. So you really did see huge levels of anger and blessed and community leaders really trying bless those fellas. Like, bless those fellas trying to come out trying to stop it. And it was. There was a level of anger that had really shocked them because. Stafford Scott, we've interviewed previously on 2011. And he was saying what kind of. And he's like a community leader in Broad Farm. And he was saying, in the 1980s, the attacks were really towards, like, the police, towards kind of these institutions of state violence. But that happened a lot less in 2011. And I think it would be interesting for more critiques to come out as to. As to why. But. But it was just. We were just deeply uncurious as a country.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

And I remember so much. Cause I spoke to so many people around that time where I was like, well, what was it like? What was it like? Cause I just missed it. So what was it like? And they were like, oh, it was like a zombie apocalypse. That was the phrase that you hear all the time. But it's so interesting because we're researching this podcast. I've been looking at shots of this film, 2011, and shots of those riots, 2011, and, like, the idea that people frame it in the lens, even then talking casually as a zombie apocalypse. And like. Or immediately putting it in the language of genre. And also. And. And they were saying it in the sense that they were like, oh, we were holed up in our flats. And, like, we were afraid to go out, and we. Whatever. And it felt like that. But it's also like, oh, it's. It's kind of the immediate dismissing of the people as a. Kind of a mob or as, like, mindless or whatever. Like, I'm not saying that everybody who Rios did it for noble reason, but they. But they also. So all of them were people. Like, all of them were human beings with complete lives, you know, that we know for sure.

[Amna Modine]

You know, they were the Sam in the first 10 minutes of the film. Yeah. They weren't the Sam at the end. And it's interesting because I think, you know, you were speaking about the segregation in that police ban, and they were like, people remained in their own world. And you can. If you just, like, keep. I mean, like, fair enough. I stayed in. I was like, bloody hell.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah.

[Amna Modine]

And then, you know, forced all my brothers to stay. And you're not going out. I don't care. It's just. You can really just stay in your own world, I think, if you want to.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah. And even, like, the way, like, her apartment is sort of styled, it's very, like, she's sort of. She's like, you sucked up the essence of East Dulwich and just like, plopped it in this. In this estate building, you know. But I also want to shout out before we wrap it up is that, you know, I know lots of our listeners are London based. And on October 14, attack the block is screening at the Rooftop Film Club in Peckham. And I'm gonna go because, like, the idea of watching this in Peckham with other southeast Londoners, that would be lovely. So nice. So let's all. I mean, I think everybody should. Everybody who's a cinematic garbage fan who will come south of the river should.

[Amna Modine]

Go to the Rooftop.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Amina Bodine, let's talk about you for one second. You mentioned that you have a memoir out scattered.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah. So I wrote a memoir about coming to the UK as a child refugee. So I came in 1999. It was just such a great time to come to the uk because I feel like the only cool time to have come to England was just then, before 2004. Then it just, like, we invade Iraq. It's horrible. Everything goes. We're like, doing the war.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

A real cheeky little slice you got there.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah. So I'm like, that was fun. I kind of of almost forgot about anything that happened before then. And it wasn't until I was going out for my reporting covering Europe's refugee crisis, like going to Calais and other refugee camps that it all. I know it sounds really quite like a film. It all came back.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Hang on.

[Amna Modine]

I think I said before, dancing bears.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Painted wings, things I lost.

[Amna Modine]

Let's talk about the film adaption. And it was. I was just. Yeah, really curious. And my parents, Fatima and Muhammad, who are like the loveliest people in the world, I just thought this would be a great opportunity to talk to them, tell, like, kind of interview them. And I realized I really wanted to go back to Somalia and Mogadishu and before we lost everything. And my granddad used to own this hotel, so my dad, as soon as he could go back to Somalia, which was in 2012, wanted to rebuild the hotel. So I kind of wanted to. Yeah. I was like, why? It's not like it's a thriving tourist spot. Dad. Oh, my God, it was so beautiful going with him there.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

So is he engaged in that then?

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, he still. Yeah. And I saw and it was. It was just like such a magical moment where he was, like, trying to get the tiles to look like what it did before the war and took me to the. He was also rebuilding our family home. That was the last place him and mum kind of lived in. And it was so visceral to be there to have interviewed my mum. But mostly they're just so funny. Like, they just have such a black humor about almost being shot, about the boat capsizing. Like, I think my dad said something like, oh, shouldn't your bump help you fly.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Man?

[Amna Modine]

Useless in every situation. Can confirm. And just wanted to, yeah, juxtapose that story, my story, with the current refugee crisis because I felt kind of shit, I'll be honest. When I was in Calais and a Somali refugee was like, how did you do it? Why do you have a British passport? Could you give me any tips? And I was like, God, tips. Not on this, babe.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amna Modine]

Probably like reducing your screen time or something, but not on this. So it was just like I have.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

Sucked on reducing your screen time.

[Amna Modine]

I'm really good at not. It was. Yeah. I just felt like my British passport was burning a hole in my pocket in that moment. So just felt like, yeah. Something to explore. So I do, I think, relatively well in this book.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I can't wait to read it.

[Amna Modine]

Thank you.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

I'm so excited. I'm so glad we got to hang out today.

[Amna Modine]

Yeah, me too. Thank you so much for having me. I love your podcast. I love your book. So I don't know how to sound like a fan. I don't want to sound too fangirly. I want to be cool, but. But I'm also such a fan.

[Host 1 (possibly Jamie or a main host)]

You're lovely and brilliant. Amna Modeen. Please open invitation for you to come back anytime. This has been the best. Thank you.

[Amna Modine]

Thank you so much. Foreign.

[Knox]

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