Continental Garbage: Emily in Paris

Summary

Sentimental Garbage - Continental Garbage: Emily in Paris

Hosted by Caroline O'Donoghue

Episode Release Date: August 29, 2024

---

Overview

In this episode of Sentimental Garbage, hosts Caroline O'Donoghue and Jennifer Cowney delve deep into their experiences with the popular television series Emily in Paris. Transitioning from personal anecdotes about friendship and overcoming breakups, the duo offers a rich analysis of the show's characters, themes, and its portrayal of modern marketing and social media dynamics. Through engaging conversations and insightful metaphors, they explore why Emily in Paris has become a cultural touchstone and its impact on viewers' perceptions of Parisian life and contemporary women's struggles.

---

1. Introduction to the Episode ([00:45] - [04:16])

The episode kicks off with Caroline addressing a minor mix-up in their podcast planning. Initially intending to watch the classic film French Kiss, the hosts find it unavailable for streaming in the UK. Instead, they pivot to watching Emily in Paris—a decision that sets the stage for their in-depth discussion.

Notable Quote:

• Jennifer: “We don't do that because it's illegal. And also we're taxing. There are no men here. So basically what we decided to do was... watch the first five episodes of Emily in Paris.” ([01:41])

---

2. Friendship and Support Through Breakups ([02:22] - [05:30])

Caroline and Jennifer transition into a heartfelt conversation about supporting friends through breakups. Sharing personal experiences, they highlight the importance of having a supportive community—a "village"—to navigate emotional challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• Caroline: “I have a love hate relationship with Instagram. I do know that where there is something inside of me that is Emily in Paris, that is like I am a born poster.” ([80:08])
• Jennifer: “I realized I did this last time. I had a big breakup as well.” ([03:50])

---

3. Deep Dive into Emily in Paris ([04:16] - [27:14])

The core of the episode revolves around an extensive analysis of Emily in Paris. Caroline and Jennifer dissect various aspects of the show, from character development to thematic elements, comparing it to other series like Sex and the City and The Bear.

Key Discussion Points:

• Character Analysis:

  • Emily: Portrayed as both a marketing savant and somewhat naive, Emily embodies the juxtaposition of intelligence and simplicity. The hosts appreciate her unrelenting optimism and unique approach to challenges.

  • Sylvie: As Emily’s boss, Sylvie represents the strong, disapproving older woman archetype. Her interactions with Emily are both critical and supportive, adding depth to their professional relationship.

  • Gabrielle: The charming chef who becomes involved in Emily’s personal and professional life, Gabrielle adds a romantic tension that fuels much of the show's drama.

Notable Quotes:

• Caroline: “You have to be a 10 in the heart, a 10 in the head, and then a 10 in the world. You have to believe in your heart you're a 10.” ([08:08])
• Jennifer: “She's a smart girl dressed like a clown. She's like 5% Don Draper, and that's the most you can be.” ([48:18])

Themes Explored:

• Marketing and Social Media: The hosts highlight how Emily in Paris showcases the intricate world of marketing, blending traditional strategies with modern social media tactics. Emily’s seamless integration of personal branding into her professional life serves as a focal point for discussing contemporary marketing trends.

• Cultural Stereotypes: While the show has faced criticism for its stereotypical portrayal of Parisian life, Caroline and Jennifer argue that it operates within a "harmless" satirical framework, poking fun at various cultural norms without delving into harmful stereotypes.

• Personal Growth and Boundaries: Emily’s journey in Paris is depicted as one of self-discovery, balancing professional ambitions with personal relationships. The hosts commend the show for illustrating the importance of setting boundaries and maintaining one's identity amidst new environments.

Notable Scenes Discussed:

• Perfume Commercial Episode: Caroline praises the episode where Emily navigates a challenging client interaction, highlighting its clever writing and realistic portrayal of marketing negotiations.

• Influencer Event: The depiction of influencer culture is analyzed, emphasizing the show's commentary on the superficiality and pressure of maintaining an online presence.

---

4. The Role of Social Media and Marketing ([27:14] - [54:25])

Continuing their analysis, the hosts delve into how Emily in Paris portrays social media as both a tool for personal expression and a professional asset. They discuss the show's reflection of real-world marketing challenges, the gamification of social platforms, and the balance between authenticity and strategic branding.

Notable Quotes:

• Caroline: “It's okay to feel ow. And it's okay to also, like, miss your old Birkenstocks and also miss the you who was used to this.” ([15:53])
• Jennifer: “It's very lovely. It's a very, very well balanced cocktail.” ([87:08])

Key Points:

• Authenticity vs. Image: Emily's efforts to create authentic content while navigating corporate expectations highlight the tension between genuine self-expression and professional branding.

• Marketing Savvy: The hosts admire Emily's innovative yet sometimes simplistic marketing ideas, which, despite their occasional naivety, often resonate with clients and lead to successful campaigns.

• Evolution of Social Media: Reflecting on their relationship with platforms like Instagram, Caroline and Jennifer discuss how the show encapsulates the essence of influencer culture, blending nostalgia with modern trends.

---

5. Comparative Analysis with Other Shows ([54:25] - [78:02])

Caroline and Jennifer draw parallels between Emily in Paris and other television series, examining how different shows approach character development, storytelling, and thematic depth.

Notable Quotes:

• Jennifer: “It does. It's so, so funny… it's like arguing with the pyramids.” ([51:36])
• Caroline: “It is like a perfectly, like, balanced cocktail.” ([87:08])

Comparisons Made:

• Sex and the City vs. Emily in Paris: Both shows center around women navigating personal and professional lives in vibrant cities. However, Emily in Paris differentiates itself through its focus on marketing and the influencer lifestyle.

• The Bear vs. Emily in Paris: While The Bear delves into intense, character-driven drama within a high-pressure kitchen environment, Emily in Paris maintains a lighter, more whimsical tone, emphasizing humor and romantic escapades.

• Call My Agent vs. Emily in Paris: Both French-originated shows explore professional relationships and personal dynamics, though Call My Agent leans more into drama and satire of the entertainment industry, contrasting with the upbeat narrative of Emily in Paris.

---

6. Final Thoughts and Predictions ([78:02] - [88:48])

As the episode nears its conclusion, the hosts share their lasting impressions of Emily in Paris, speculate on future plot developments, and discuss the show's potential legacy as a comfort watch for generations to come.

Notable Quotes:

• Caroline: “It is like one of those cocktails that is brought out to you that it's, like, entirely pink and has candy floss on the top of it.” ([87:44])
• Jennifer: “It will definitely be a comfort watch for me.” ([87:27])

Key Insights:

• Cultural Impact: Caroline and Jennifer believe Emily in Paris has cemented its place in popular culture, offering a blend of humor, fashion, and relatable professional challenges that resonate with a wide audience.

• Character Development: They express anticipation for how central relationships, particularly the love triangle between Emily, Camille, and Gabriel, will evolve in future episodes.

• Legacy as a Comfort Watch: Drawing comparisons to beloved series like Gilmore Girls and Sex and the City, the hosts foresee Emily in Paris becoming a go-to show for viewers seeking lighthearted entertainment and a sense of escapism.

---

Conclusion

In Continental Garbage: Emily in Paris, Caroline and Jennifer provide a comprehensive and engaging exploration of the show's multifaceted narrative. Through their thoughtful analysis and personal reflections, listeners gain a deeper understanding of what makes Emily in Paris both entertaining and culturally significant. Whether you're a fan of the series or new to it, this episode offers valuable insights into the interplay between personal growth, professional ambition, and the ever-evolving landscape of social media and marketing.

Notable Quotes Recap:

• Caroline: “You have to be a 10 in the heart, a 10 in the head, and then a 10 in the world.” ([08:08])
• Jennifer: “She's a smart girl dressed like a clown.” ([48:18])

---

Upcoming Episodes

Stay tuned for future episodes of Sentimental Garbage, where Caroline and Jennifer continue to dissect and discuss the culture we love and sometimes feel conflicted about. Whether it's diving into new films, exploring societal trends, or sharing personal stories, Sentimental Garbage promises to keep you engaged and enlightened.

---

This summary is intended for listeners who want an overview of the episode without tuning in. For the full experience, join Caroline and Jennifer on their insightful and entertaining journey in each episode of Sentimental Garbage.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts, they said, what the are you talking about, you insane Hollywood? So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first 3 month plan only. Taxes and fees. Extra Speed slower above 40 gigabytes. ET details. Well, hello everyone. We're here with yet another technical fault. Another glitch in the Matrix. Except this time it's not necessarily a technical glitch, but a glitch of our own planning. Jen, would you like to explain?

[B]

I would like to explain. We did very much intend to listen to watch the wonderful film French Kiss.

[A]

Yes. Starring Meg Ryan and Kevin Kline. And indeed, in the postcard, we talk about how much we're looking forward to it.

[B]

We talk about it quite a bit. It's been requested a lot on this podcast, but unfortunately what the requestees. Requestors, sorry, failed to mention is that you cannot watch French kids in the uk. It's just not on the Internet.

[A]

If you are in Amazon in America, you're probably fine. Yeah.

[B]

And if you know how to torrent things, you're probably fine. But we don't do that because it's illegal. And also we're taxing.

[A]

We don't know how.

[B]

There are no men here. So basically what we decided to do was, I'm sure many people who've listened to this podcast have, have done online grocery shopping and sometimes you might do a thing like, I don't know, order a punnet of delicious vine tomatoes and Tesco. Orocado says we haven't got that, but we have got ketchup.

[A]

That's exactly what's happened this week.

[B]

So we went, well, French Kiss is about a woman going to Paris. And we thought, we think it's from the Internet. It says that's what happens in it. And I was like, well, there's another thing. That's that. And that's Emily in Paris. So I guess we'll just watch the first five episodes of Emily in Paris. And that's this week's podcast.

[A]

And that's what we did.

[B]

So don't be confused. When you hear French Kiss, you are on the right one. There's just a little bit of A gap between. Between the. The ambition, the dream, and the reality.

[A]

Yeah. And. And should we have checked whether it was available for streaming before we recorded the postcard? Before we sat down on my couch to watch the movie? Yeah, maybe. But you know what? It's the summer. It's August. It's silly season.

[B]

It's silly season. And on we go.

[A]

On we go. Hello, and welcome to Continental Garbage, the podcast where we are rapidly running out of time to get through our listener requests. My name is Caroline, and my first French kiss happened behind a bush in the car park of a hotel. And joining me is the very soon to be French kissed Jennifer Cowney.

[B]

Am I soon to be French kissed?

[A]

Well, that. That seems to be the tone of our conversations that we've been having privately.

[B]

Is one day it'll happen. I just assumed it'd be Sylv inserting her tongue forcibly into my mouth. 7:00am Tomorrow morning, as she does every day.

[A]

Yeah. So Jen's still living with us.

[B]

I am. I'm still here. I haven't gone home yet. Maybe one day I will.

[A]

You're in the O'Donoghue home for wayward Women.

[B]

I am here. I am just sort of taking up space. Touching your dog.

[A]

It's really nice.

[B]

It's really good.

[A]

It's so. I love when we do this. Gavin's working in San Francisco for, like, two weeks. For like two weeks. And it would have felt like such a long time if you weren't here staying with me.

[B]

I know. And going to work every day in my office.

[A]

I know. And I get to be your little wife. I have to be someone's wife at all times.

[B]

I get to come home and text you and be like, do we need anything for dinner? Should I pick anything up? It's very lovely, I think. Again, if you in the parish are someone going through the breakup, there's still no verb for it. And you've got a friend who'll just let you go and stay with them for like a week or more. Go for it. Yeah, I did. I realized I did this last time. I had a big breakup as well.

[A]

Did you?

[B]

My very last. Big, big breakup. Big, big one.

[A]

Who'd you live with then? Oh, you were. Fiona.

[B]

Fiona and Maddie. They were both living together in Peckham and the circumstances of that were bad, as I think I've just mentioned previously in this podcast. So I really did need to not be there. And I just literally lived with them for a month.

[A]

I think it's really important.

[B]

And it was really. It was really Healing. They sort of let me sort of bounce between the two beds like a pinball. And whoever was less annoyed at me, I guess, could have me each night.

[A]

I think. I think what we often miss is that I think we get too swept up in the training monologue of the post breakup woman who is like, going to the bridge Jones, but sort of like, you know, montage of like, going to the gym, throwing all the vodka away, cutting her hair off, cutting her hair, learning French, etc. And actually, I think what we all know is that it takes a village to raise a breakup. It does.

[B]

It takes a village to raise a breakup. And I think it makes a big difference when you're not just on your own in your house, sitting in your bed. Obviously, I have sat in beds and had a cry, but so different. And also, I think I must say to you, as a thank you, I'd say 95% of our friendship is characterized by yes. And like, you know, we have a silly time, we take things too far, we go on holiday for far longer than is normal or necessary and enjoy it. But the one place that you are a no but woman is when one of your friends is having a spiral about how bad she is, and you're just like, shut the fuck up. And you've given. You've like, you've probably, like, grabbed me by the chin a few times and been like, we're not doing this. We're not doing this. It's incredibly healthy. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you for receiving it in the spirit it is intended because I'm a very. I'm quite a pathological people pleaser. And no one puts out hundreds of hours of their own voice if they aren't desperate for the love and approval of others. And so to say. No, but it's a big deal.

[B]

But you've done it to me, I think twice today. Once I was having a spiral about a thing I decided was a thing, and you were like, we're not pathologizing you just yet. And I was like, thank you, Caroline. And then over our weird chicken tender dinner, you were like, I need to tell you something, and I need you to not be doing this negative self talk.

[A]

Yeah, okay. Can I tell the listeners?

[B]

You can tell the listeners. I think it's really important. I think everyone needs to hear it because it felt it was, you know, as I sat there eating my chicken tenders, I was like, this is really good to hear.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay, tell them what you told me because it's really. It means a lot.

[A]

Okay, so it's hard for me to sum up but essentially the theory this all begins with, this is okay, this is not the first time the O'Donoghue house for wayward unmarried women has been instigated, has hosted, has hosted. You know, think of Victorian laundry but with better food and nicer dogs and something I'm like, you know, I think it is the privilege and the grace of women who are, have like very stable monogamous lives to receive sometimes the women who have had a hard time of romantically. And also I realize there is support that I can't give. For example, like you have other single friends who are able to sort of empathize on a deeper level. And I'm not going to pretend like I have the solutions to like finding a long term partner. Like I mostly believe I was really, really lucky. And like, you know, I don't know what it's like today. I don't know what it's like to be on apps. Like I don't have anything valuable theory.

[B]

About the apps though.

[A]

But anyway, I've got some great theories about the apps but it's all, it's all theory. None of it was earned in the field. None of it earned in the field. But I do think that sometimes women, when left alone together can develop a lot of little theories about themselves as to why they think that men don't want to be with them. And I've had a lot of women come through these doors with a lot of interesting little theories about why they're uniquely, why they are uniquely unsuited, suited to be with the people they are attracted to, which mostly is straight men. And what I have seen and notice happening over the years with my patients.

[B]

Your alumni, with my alumni, excuse me, your girls.

[A]

My girls. Every one of my girls in Florida.

[B]

Every one of my girls has actually now graduated into long happy marriages with wonderful men. Happy, happy marriages.

[A]

Something I've noticed about my girls is, is that they, they have these little theories about themselves that is also being propped up by like a lot of negative self talk, a lot of like I'm X age, I'm X weight, I'm X professionalized, I'm X this, I'm X that. And they all like group it all together into a big sack called why men Hate Me. And, and to them I say, I'm starting to believe you. So when somebody keeps telling you something about themselves, it starts to become true. And I've had friends who have like repeated their, their list of reasons of why they can't make it Like, a man will never love them. So many times that I have simply just, like, almost ruled them out of, like, I, like, I truly begin to believe them. And the world begins to believe them too. And for these, for my girls, my alumni, I will say, you have to be a 10 in the heart, a 10 in the head, and then a 10 in the world. You have to believe in your heart you're a 10. You have to believe in your head you're a 10. And then the world believes you are a 10.

[B]

And it is hard to believe you're a 10 when you feel like Alphabet soup.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you did really inspire me to be like, perhaps I could stop telling myself I'm a two.

[A]

Right. Like, I'm thinking of a friend specifically who, like, got out of a long term relationship, was single for all of ten and a half minutes, and then was immediately in a long term relationship and is still in that relationship. And I remember watching her going through, literally her starting her first dating app, her like, you know, going on her first dates or whatever, and her being like, oh, how am I going to communicate how amazing I am? Like, like, she just, like, is someone with a lot of self. Estee.

[B]

Ten in the heart, ten in the head.

[A]

She's a ten in the heart, ten in the head. And then therefore, ten in the world, ten on the apps. And I think this is sort of a, you know, a bulletin to everybody, but also to you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I mean, you already heard it in the pub earlier on.

[B]

I heard it in the pub earlier on, but it's worth hearing again, having it on tape so I can listen back to it.

[A]

Yeah. You gotta be your own marketing department and you have to really believe in what you're selling, even if you're not actively selling. You have to really believe. Like, like, unfortunately, men are dumb, but also, fortunately, men are dumb. So if you just, like, behave as if you are amazing, they just believe you.

[B]

I have to say it's a strategy I've never previously tried. So I'm gonna give it a shot. Not right now.

[A]

Not right now. Right now.

[B]

I'm adjusting to. You're in an ooze era, I'm an ooze era. And our other metaphor is in a shoeless era. Yeah.

[A]

Do you wanna take them through the shoe? If this can take another metaphor.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there'll be a little thing on the, on the front of this podcast going, if you don't want extended met about breakups, skip to the film. But a great metaphor that you and lovely Ella came up with the other night when I came home. I came home from work to find not just only my goodly wife, but also Ella's wife.

[A]

Her goodly wife.

[B]

The second in the kind of like wife. What is it? Sister wife situation going on?

[A]

Sister wives, no husband.

[B]

Honestly, I was like, jackpot. We had a big salad, but under the thumb. A big salad?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Big, huge salad.

[A]

So nice to have a woman living with you. And to make the green garden salad, which I'm sure everybody, every hostessing woman has in her arsenal. But the green goddess salad is delicious. Delicious.

[B]

There I am just being a bit like, it's my ex's birthday. I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling tragic.

[A]

And that is really hard.

[B]

It's hard. Particularly when you. When Siri accidentally makes you call them at lunchtime and then you have to like, oh, it was a whole. Anyway, yeah, listen, we've all been there. Maybe not everyone. Maybe everyone else has got less fat fingers, but you came up making a self talk.

[A]

Okay, okay. Ten in the thumbs.

[B]

I've got. I've got beautiful precise fingers. Just sometimes do things I didn't mean them to. And that's okay. 10 in the thumbs.

[A]

10 in the thumbs. Go on, carry on.

[B]

10 in the thumbs. You can come up with a lovely metaphor for how I'm feeling right now, which I have held close to my heart for all of three days since then. And we'll continue to. And you, or El. I can't remember who started, it was like, imagine that you're a beautiful forest nymph. And I was like, imagine, okay, yeah, I'm there in my head, there I am. And you have spent many years walking barefoot through the forests. And in case you're wondering what that metaphor is for, that's being single. You are walking through the forest. And I did. I was single for a long time before my last relationship. And.

[A]

And not looking.

[B]

And not looking. Not in a kind of like, I'm sad, just looking like I'm a happy lady. You just, like, got quite used to being on her one.

[A]

I was never worried about you, crucially, because you're not interested in the sort of maternity path.

[B]

Makes something a lot easier.

[A]

Makes things a lot easier. Not that it isn't great to be single anyway, if you do want kids, but it just. It just puts that issue to one side.

[B]

It puts it to one side. And I was a real, like, I was a real proponent of the single life, and I was really happy and I wasn't looking for a relationship. And then one came along as a kind of very unexpected gift. And the way that you described it is that you're walking through the forest and, you know, you feel the acorns and the brambles and. And the mud and the moss between your toes.

[A]

And that and those acorns and moss is both the freedoms of being single, but also the difficulties. It's tricky because the world is not kind to single women and can make you feel, like, weird and spare and, like, put you in odd seating positions at weddings. They only sell salmon in groups of two. Right.

[B]

And you have to just really ration it out and freeze it. And it's weird. But there you are. You're walking through the forest, and you're doing well. You know, your feet are used to it. And then one day you just find a pair of shoes and you're like, huh, maybe I'm a shoe guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you slip on your shoes, and.

[A]

Then there is this barrier between you and the earth, and you're kind of.

[B]

Held by these shoes. Like, there's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Suddenly you're like, oh, this is quite secure. It's quite supportive. My toes aren't quite so cold in the winter anymore.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I can't feel the moss and the brambles.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But I also can't. Well, I can't feel the moss, but I can't feel the brambles. Also, brambles are not good.

[A]

Obviously.

[B]

No one wants to step on brambles. And you're like, I'm walking along. I'm walking along in shoes. There you are. You've been a shoe guy for a couple of years, and then the shoes.

[A]

Start to come apart.

[B]

They start to blister a bit, and you're like, I don't know. Are these shoes really my forever shoes? I don't. They really fit to my feet? Hard to say.

[A]

Or were they just some shoes?

[B]

Those shoes are suddenly taken away from you, and suddenly you're left shoeless in the forest again. But your feet aren't used to the forest floor anymore.

[A]

You've gotten used to your cheap Clarks Birkenstocks.

[B]

You got used to whatever shoe you were wearing.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Whether they were a Clark Birkenstock or a, you know, a novelty jelly shoe or a welly or a stiletto or a sequined Mary Jane. In my case, I think they probably were Clarks Birkenstock.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's not. Not a true Birkenstock. Not molding to your feet, you know, but.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, looks like one. And the shopping center Birkenstock Yeah, exactly. And I actually really enjoy clogged shoes, as it happened. But, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are they a for life shoe? Hard to say. But you're suddenly back there and you're like, oh, fuck.

[A]

And your feet have lost their lovely callous.

[B]

They've lost the callus. They're not as used to it. And it's just. You're just back there in the woods and you know that you love these woods and you know that perhaps you'll find another shoe, a better shoe, perhaps a tailored, fitted boot in future. But right now you're like, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow. And it's okay to feel ow.

[A]

Yeah, and it's also. It's okay to feel ow. And it's okay to also, like, miss your old Birkenstocks and also miss the you who was used to this. Ms. The you who, like, walked barefoot every single day.

[B]

Miss that.

[A]

I'm sorry. And be like, I'm not being her right now, so that means I have failed and I'll never get back to her. Yeah, but you will be stronger than her.

[B]

I will be stronger than her. And perhaps one day I'll find a beautiful, supple leather boot. Or perhaps I won't. And perhaps my feet will just adjust again.

[A]

Like, you know more things when you go barefoot.

[B]

You know a lot of things.

[A]

You know more things.

[B]

You know many things about the ground.

[A]

Which is the world, the world which does.

[B]

And this is a beautiful metaphor.

[A]

And some people will have lost the thread and some people will be crying in their car.

[B]

Exactly. There's only two real outcomes here. You're either just like, these women have finally jumped the shark and they need to wrap this up.

[A]

Which is good because there's only a few episodes of this podcast left.

[B]

Two left after this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I personally think this is one that I will listen back to and be like, yes, Gonna be okay. Thank you for being Caroline O'Donoghue's home for Wayward girls and for giving me the shoe metaphor and also for telling me to put 10 in the head, 10 in the heart, and 10 in the world.

[A]

There's a lot of life lessons this week which tell me a lot of deep and meaningfuls about the human heart.

[B]

And that's what happens when you just live with your friend for a week and there's time to really build a metaphor.

[A]

There's. You really furnish the work, both of.

[B]

You together, to be like, oh, and another thing, Another thing. And another thing.

[A]

It feels really good.

[B]

It does, it does. And you can't let it go too long because then you go right off the deep end into fairyland.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think, you know, a week's about the right amount.

[A]

Yeah. I want to say a final thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

In case there is anyone crying in their car. And maybe I'm wrong, but this is not a metaphor that has been fully furnished with all the little.

[B]

Yeah, it's still new, still fresh and.

[A]

Filigree that we've just put on the foot thing. But another thing I've noticed in my home for wayward girls do tell. Is that often when something ends, there is. And because we're all grown ups now and things generally, unless someone's being a real piece of shit, they are not ending for like awful reasons, like cheating or people stealing things from dirt. They're just ending because it's the bad fit, it's the wrong shoe.

[B]

Literally. The shoe doesn't fit. Well, it's a nice enough shoe. It just doesn't fit.

[A]

And that goes both ways.

[B]

Oh, yeah. The shoe's not happy, the foot's not happy.

[A]

Exactly. And the foot has a shoe, has a journey of his own to go on. You know, an old man of shoe.

[B]

Is no women of feet. And that's the way it is.

[A]

All women are feet and all men are shoes. Obviously. And so when things end in a mature way, I think there is a lot of tomfoolery that happens in the brain about, oh, you know what? You know what? We ended in an amicable way. I still think he's wonderful. I am not going to be that woman who sits around talking shit about a nice man just because he had the audacity to not want to be in a relationship with me anymore. I'm better than that. I am more than that. And on paper that makes sense, but in practice, it is the wrong move.

[B]

You did give me this talk earlier.

[A]

As well, because unfortunately, something has died. And when something has died, someone needs to be murdered. Someone needs to be killed, at least.

[B]

Be held responsible for that death.

[A]

Sure. Even if it's just psychically, even if it's just emotionally, even if it's just written on the walls of your soul. And so I've noticed that every wayward girl who says, you know what? He's a great guy, he's gonna find a great woman someday. I just wish him well. Kiss, kiss, bang, bang. Then in the next sentence, she will go, it's too bad I suck. It's like, no, when you give someone too generous an outro, you are turning the knife on Yourself, one of you has to die. In your heart at least. And so you must turn the knife on him. Just fucking go for it. Just be like, that guy sucks. Because otherwise you will turn a knife on yourself.

[B]

You're very wise.

[A]

I think so.

[B]

You're very, very wise. And you've caught me just there with the point of the knife to my. To my sternum, and I'm like, no.

[A]

No, let's kill him. Let's do it the other way. Because doing nothing isn't an option.

[B]

No, you can't. You can't.

[A]

Talking about nothing.

[B]

You can't sit there balancing a knife on your finger like a weirdo.

[A]

No, we must stab. Which is a real shame, because once again, he is in my wedding photos.

[B]

Listen, he's in a lot of things.

[A]

I know, but sadly, we must murder him.

[B]

We'll do that in our hearts and.

[A]

Minds and in our conversation.

[B]

Not here, that would be. Not classy, but off stage. Just imagine it's happening.

[A]

We're modest, we're demure.

[B]

We're demodest. We're mindful and modest. And we're demure.

[A]

Exactly. Now, do we have anything material to report?

[B]

We haven't actually reported on our whereabouts and goings on in the last two weeks, have we?

[A]

No. Well, I went to Edinburgh.

[B]

Nice. I went to France. Did you take the fat sister with you?

[A]

I did one fast. Do you ever feel like we've. Do you ever feel like we're doing too much?

[B]

Do you feel like we go on holiday too often?

[A]

Do you feel like we're the sort of travel equivalent of those people who have taken too many drugs in their life and their pleasure receptors are ruined, potentially?

[B]

Well, actually, no. I had a lovely time in France.

[A]

I too, had a lovely time. I interviewed Marion Keynes.

[B]

What the fuck? Marion Keys.

[A]

Yeah, I know. She's so fucking cool, man. I can't believe how good she looks.

[B]

I can.

[A]

Do you know what's so cool about her as well? She is 62. She looks incredible. She's got this big, like, head of glossy black hair and this line white porcelain skin and just whatever. And she will sit on stage with you at the Edinburgh Book Festival and tell you exactly what she's had done. And I think that is so fucking horny.

[B]

So rare.

[A]

So rare. She's obviously a beautiful woman and, like, in like a totally, like. She's so charismatic that whatever she looked like, you'd find her attractive, but she's also just so hot, right? And just. And she's like. Here's the thing. I get Botox. I no longer do fillers. I'm very into profilo. In front of a stage of like 300 people, I was like, this is so rock and roll.

[B]

Even if I knew her only through her books, I would think she was amazing.

[A]

Oh, she's so good.

[B]

I just.

[A]

And that new one is great as well. It's called My Favourite Mistake.

[B]

Is it a revisiting of the.

[A]

It's one of the Walshes. Yes. Anna Walsh.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I actually. Do you know what? You would really like it because it's all about beauty, PR and marketing in there. I think you'd really enjoy.

[B]

Nice. Yeah, no, I read obviously, Rachel's Holiday and Rachel Again with great Love and, and I have not read this most recent one, but I will be.

[A]

Do you know what's amazing about her books as well is that like, and this is not to sound like condescending or whatever, but like there are a lot of. I won't name them, but there are a lot of like rom com writers of her generation that their, their style and their observations have sort of, sort of stayed the same. And when you pick up one of their books they're like, okay, maybe a few people have phones. But like this woman is not living in the real world, you know, like that, like I said, like, this is someone who's writing about like, you know, a 30 year old who has not met a 30 year old in some time.

[B]

Oh, Marion Key is definitely out.

[A]

She is just right there. She knows she is right, right there and it's so fucking cool.

[B]

She's listening to people. I think that's.

[A]

Yeah, no, well, she's got a ton of young friends. I mean like her. Again, not to say, like I said, oh, you're so old. But like.

[B]

No, but I do think like, like for example, I don't think Julie Cooper's met anyone who's under her age in 20 years.

[A]

No.

[B]

And I do enjoy Julia Cooper novels historically. But like I think if I were to read one of her most recent ones. Yeah, I did a few years ago, I'm like, oh no, this is fan fiction for the past.

[A]

Right. And that had its place too. But like Marian is right on the conversation. And do you know who Marian Keys best friend is?

[B]

No.

[A]

Louise O'Neill. No. Do you know how old Louise O'Neill is?

[B]

34.

[A]

Something like that? Yeah.

[B]

Phenomenal.

[A]

Like, like that's fucking cool.

[B]

That is really good.

[A]

It is such. Oh God, I just loved being around her and being like, oh God, if I'm even a fraction as cool as.

[B]

You are, maybe take Louise O'Neill's place. Oh, maybe you could become, like, in the devil. I was Prada, the second assistant.

[A]

Oh, my God, no. Louise O'Neill has to go to Paris.

[B]

Oh, no. She's got the stomach flu. You're the best friend now.

[A]

Oh, my God. So funny.

[B]

Louise, we're not coming for you.

[A]

We're not coming for you.

[B]

We respect your position too much. But if you could have second best friend, perhaps that would be good.

[A]

Yeah, I could be the second assistant.

[B]

You could be marrying Kiki's second assistant.

[A]

The idea of, like, being in the back of a limo with Marion Keyes in Paris, and she's like. And we need to call. Oh, Caroline, Everybody wants this. Sunglasses on.

[B]

I can see it. I mean, can I believe it? I don't know, but I can see it. I think she'd like it.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, that live episode will go out in a few weeks when this is all wrapped up. In the meantime, I said phenomenal six times this episode.

[B]

That's how I'm feeling. Phenomenal.

[A]

Phenomenal. Yeah. I feel great. I've had a couple of pints. We're gonna crack the ice cream out and watch this movie.

[B]

I know nothing about this movie. Literally, the only thing I have to say in any kind of bridging ways. I went to France. I went there.

[A]

I went to France. Presumably this happens in France.

[B]

I'm going to really hope so.

[A]

Hey there, Ryan Reynolds here. It's a new year, and you know what that means. No, not the diet resolutions. A way for us all to try and do a little bit better than we did last year. And my resolution, unlike big wireless, is to not be a raging and raise the price of wireless on you every chance I get. Give it a [e-mail] $45 upfront payment required. Equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees, extra Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited. See mintmobile.com for details. Hi, this is Freddie Wong from Dungeons and Daddies, and this episode is sponsored by Rocket Money. Houston. Houston, we have a problem, and that's too many subscriptions that I don't know about because I like to put my credit card number into sites just for the sheer thrill of it. That's the fundamental problem of the Internet and money. And Rocket Money is here to solve that. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills. You can see all those subscriptions that you've accrued over a lifetime of putting your credit card in on the Internet in one place. If you don't want them, just cancel them with a few taps. Rocket Money can help with that. Rocket Money's over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscription subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all the app's premium features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com cancelsubs. That's rocketmoney.com cancelsubs, not submarines. So that was Emily in Paris.

[B]

So that was Emily in Paris, the thing we definitely intended to watch. I am so glad we did this, though, because I feel like I've been trying to make you watch Emily in Paris for years. Well, literally, for since it came out.

[A]

Many people have been trying to make me watch Emily in Paris for years.

[B]

And I'd like, before we talk about your experience with Emily in Paris for you to explain why so anti our friend Emily.

[A]

It's okay. Very interesting question. Do you know what I think what it is is that, like, for this podcast, I have to watch so much, like, lovely female coded yummy yum yums, right? And so naturally, because I have to every week watch something new. And I've been, you know, this current season of the podcast has been running for a year and a half that, like, often when I'm not watching something deliberately for the podcast, I want to watch something with Gav. Like. And so we end up watching, for example, Master and Commander a lot.

[B]

I see men with guns and chips.

[A]

Men with guns. And I love those movies, too. And so often I just need a palette cleanser. And Emily in Paris, it went so far beyond me so quickly in that, like, it seemed they were just churning out endless episodes. Every time I saw Lily Collins face, I had a bit of a reaction that I can't explain, and it's not fair, but I was having it.

[B]

You weren't having it. And yeah, I would say this is probably the fourth time that I've been like, hey, why don't we just watch some Emily in Paris? And finally, you caved because the Internet broke us.

[A]

French kiss conspired against us.

[B]

The thing I will say, like, obviously, I don't want to force the issue here, but you didn't seem to hate it.

[A]

I really liked it. I never thought I would hate it or anything. It's just. And I think I also knew that it was gonna Be one of those Gilmore Girls type things where it's like, oh, if I let this in even a little, it'll take over my life. So I just need to keep it at arm's length.

[B]

I mean, fortunately, the thing about Emily in Paris is that it only has quite short seasons. And all the episodes are very short.

[A]

They're very snackable.

[B]

It is very yummy. So we watched last night the five first episodes of season one. So half of season one. Yeah, two and a half hours. And then I fell asleep on the sofa with your dog.

[A]

So cute. The two of you curled up like you were the old people in the town going down.

[B]

I woke up and I was like, where am I?

[A]

Oh, Sylvie's here. It's fine. I couldn't wake you. I just went to bed and left you out there. She's so loyal to you rather than the person who feeds her, clothes her, milks her.

[B]

Yeah. So, I mean, from memory, the reason I'm saying I fell asleep is that I think I missed the last 10 minutes of episode five. I think that's the one. Just. If you're a listener who's watched Emily in Paris, which is probably 80 to 85%.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it's been requested a lot.

[B]

It's the episode that ends ironically, I believe, with Emily and Camille going to bed in the street in Paris.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

So we got that. Yeah. It's very on brand for me to just, like, conk out with Sylvie.

[A]

Yes, very on brand. You and Camille over here.

[B]

Me and Camille. So we watched the first five, and I listen, I haven't seen the first season in quite some time, and I.

[A]

I still love it. I still.

[B]

I felt like I was clapping like a seal with joy at moments I've seen at least. Okay, first impressions, episode one. What were your first. Your first moments? We opened now.

[A]

We did watch this last night. So it is kind of sending in my memories like a fever dream.

[B]

Emily's in Chicago.

[A]

Emily's in Chicago. Okay, I remember Act 1, Scene 1, Act 1, Scene 1. Emily R. Emily is on a run. And it's like her sort of running pal, my fitness pal or whatever, is saying to her, oh, you've done 18 seconds better than yesterday. You ran five miles. And so immediately we were like, this is not a relatable queen. We're immediately unsure or immediately unsure. And then what I actually real. Here's my great admiration as a storyteller for Emily in Paris. These five episodes, though, have scene is that they actually. They judge it really well. There's A really alchemy balance happening in the concoction of this cocktail, which is like Emily. Yeah. She in some senses that she's a relatable girly. But I think what a lot of shows get really wrong and a lot of movies get wrong, especially when they're trying to depict sort of like millennials or whatever. And I would say she's a younger millennial. I mean, she was like 25, five years ago. Right? So, yeah, yeah, that's what she's so.

[B]

Pitched at being like mid to late 20s in this. It's not her first job, but it's her first big girl job.

[A]

Yes, exactly. And I feel like there's been so many, like, quite disgusting attempts to sort of capture the millennial spirit, and very rarely is it done correctly. And I don't think necessarily in this, it's done correctly either. But it's like there's something about her keenness. She's, like, technically smart, but also very dumb. And. And like her. Her openness that is like, I don't know, I think there's so many different versions of this where they would try and make her too down to earth.

[B]

Too, like, too knowing.

[A]

Too knowing. And I think I've said this on the podcast before, but, like, I've seen so many millennial heroines that I immediately take against because they are essentially taking the fleabag sort of cocktail and watering it down with soda water. And it's just like the girl wakes up, she's messy, she's late for a job interview, there's a guy next to her on her mattress on the floor. Who the fuck is he? We don't know. She stumbles at the door, buttons done up wrong. She runs into her mom. She's not speaking to her mom. Why abuse? And it's like, I'm so sick of. And then she's always like, I am sarcastic, but, you know, because of reasons pertaining to my abuse. And it's like, it's like, it's like trying to hit all these check boxes of what they think. Well, any other interesting. And it's always. It goes down like a lead balloon. And there's something about millennial, like, Emily's like, brand newness in every situation that's really adorable.

[B]

Emily is basically a baby in the body of a 27 year old woman.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So overjoyed. And like, I don't think she needs to be relatable. I mean, her outfits get more and more outlandish as the season go on. Goes on. And the seasons go on and more and more expensive. And like the point of Emily in Paris is not. I relate to her. She's just very enjoyable because she's kind of weird and she feels so real. I do not doubt she's not relatable.

[A]

But she feels very real.

[B]

She's a true person. This is a fully formed character that exists in some parallel universe.

[A]

That's so true. I think that's actually very interesting in terms of like storytelling of like the relatable versus real. Emily is not relatable.

[B]

She's not necessarily likable. Even sometimes.

[A]

No, no. And like, I don't think she was designed for a character for like audiences to be like it's me or whatever. But there's something about her. Yes. In this parallel world of like candy colored France, I believe that this woman exists.

[B]

She feels so true. She feels she's cringe, but she is free.

[A]

She is cringe, but she is free.

[B]

She's drinking everything in with her eyes. Interestingly, on the mother point, I've now watched all of the Emily and Paris that exists. She never speaks to her family. Not once in four seasons.

[A]

They just don't exist.

[B]

They may all be dead. And what's so lovely is the show has no interest in telling us why. She has no other friends or family in America. She's just gone. She never speaks to them. Just her boss and her ex boyfriend.

[A]

Oh, I love that.

[B]

It's perfect. I love that she's just like lifted up, hermetically sealed as this perfect little strange woman and she's just posted to France and she never goes home and she never speaks to anyone.

[A]

That is fabulous. Right? I love that.

[B]

That's the kind that's the sort of confident, strong storytelling that we need.

[A]

And it's actually, it's so interesting. If you chart the through line between obviously the Sex and the City DNA of Emmeline Paris with Darren Starr and Patricia Field as the stylist and like Sex and the City, none of those girls have families. Like Charlotte has a brother once. Yes.

[B]

Someone has a dead parent one time.

[A]

Yes, yes. Miranda has a dead mom and a sister, but like they are not part of the show. We know that Carrie had an absent dad, but we don't really know anything.

[B]

That's the most you need.

[A]

Yeah. And it's so interesting. I know you don't watch it, but I've just come off watching season three of the Bear, which could not be more different in Paris.

[B]

Is it a true perfect. Like do they.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay, maybe I should watch them.

[A]

You know, there's a few episodes that are absolutely masterful. And I do like it as a show, and I like it because it tries. Similar to Emily in Paris. It is trying for a mark that only it can see.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I respect that very much. In all art making, if it doesn't always hit the mark, that is fine by me. I would rather it exists than something cynical exists. And Emily in Paris is uncynical.

[B]

So uncynical. So joyful, so silly.

[A]

But something that happens in the Bear is that every scene, single character, doesn't matter how big or small, has a traumatic backstory. And everything they do is eventually explained by the traumatic backstory.

[B]

Like a Sarah J. Maas novel.

[A]

Right. I find that very boring and very lazy. Like, people can't just. People just, like, respond to the stimuli that's around them in the moment rather than, like, you know, Jeremy Allen's white character just sort of like smoking and chewing gum and just being like, I don't know. And then we flash back to someone being mean to him in a restaurant five minutes five years ago. It's like, is that really good enough?

[B]

No. And what was wonderful about Emily is she exists. But we have no idea why she's like that.

[A]

No. Because some. Some bitches just do be like that.

[B]

They're just like that. Like, you could do a very dark version of this show where you find out that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that.

[B]

What's going on with Emily?

[A]

Oh, it flashes back to, like, having ADHD diagnoses as a child and, like, maybe her dad died or. No, no, no.

[B]

Emily gets the chance to go and work in Paris and she's like, amazing. Sure.

[A]

Off I go, off I go.

[B]

She just trots off. She doesn't have to get divorced or anything. She has a breakup. It doesn't bother her after about episode two.

[A]

I love her.

[B]

I love her. I love the way that she is just. She's a balloon whose string has been cut free from America somewhere. She. Michigan. I don't know which bit. She's in Chicago. That bit.

[A]

Chicago, Illinois.

[B]

Illinois. Look at me in my geography. And she just floats across the ocean. There she is. And I think she's perfect.

[A]

She's perfect.

[B]

And I hope that if any of the Emily in Paris showrunners are listening. Never do a thing where you bring her mum on holiday. You know, so many shows you that thing of like, and, oh, my God, my mom's here.

[A]

And it's like, oh, and look, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus or whatever.

[B]

Like, yeah, it's always clearly, like a really slow day in the writers room and they're like, why don't we just inject a family member?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, because they are just like charging through French storylines. They've got it and you can so tell. And I know, obviously, because there's like four or five seasons. There's something four and a half. They just do not run out of story, ever.

[B]

There's so much story. And like, they. Do you have. You have Madeline. Do you recognize Madeline? Madeleine. Madeline.

[A]

I don't really know any of these characters names apart from Sylvie and Emily. Probably Sylvie, because that's my dog's name.

[B]

And we'll come back to Madeline is Madeleine. Madeline would be the French way of saying it. Madeline is the pregnant woman, the preg. At the beginning.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

Do you recognize her?

[A]

The preg.

[B]

Do you recognize her?

[A]

Is it Laura Hardin from the old time?

[B]

No. Why don't you recognize her?

[A]

Who is she?

[B]

She's also Addison Montgomery shepherd from Grey's Anatomy who is in under the Tuscan sun, who abandons Christina Yang, AKA Patty.

[A]

Oh, my God. Her whole job in things is to almost go to a country.

[B]

Her whole job is to almost go places and then not. I'm just always delighted to see her whenever she shows up.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

She just appears in things. She's like a beautiful red thread connecting so many of the passions of my life. Under the Tuscan sun, Grey's Anatomy, everything.

[A]

Yeah. Always tangential to pregnancy.

[B]

Always. She's either being a pregnancy doctor or she is preggo. Or she's like, getting someone else pregnant and abandoning her. Perfect.

[A]

I love how quickly it just dispenses with why Emily is in Paris. It's so good.

[B]

Gone. She's there. Now she's there. Now she's there. And she's meeting a whole cast of French people.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So this is the thing that I wanted to ask you about because I feel like there's a lot. Obviously there's a lot of kind of like sniffy backlash against Emily in Paris in newspapers and media.

[A]

Because I think the backlash has come full circle now.

[B]

I think people have now accepted it for the.

[A]

Yeah. There was a Guardian review where it was basically like. I think it was Joel Golby and he was like, yes, this might be a work scheme for actors who can't act, but is it time to stop hating Emily in Paris or whatever?

[B]

You know, I feel like hating the energy of hating Emily in Paris is the energy of people who go on Goodreads to give 1 star reviews to.

[A]

Picture books that is so correct.

[B]

They'll go there and they'll be like, I'm not sure about this patchwork elephant. It's actually quite creepy. And my child was traumatized.

[A]

Sure about this caterpillar. He seems insatiable and actually traumatized.

[B]

I think anyone who's bothered to tell anyone how bad Emily and Paris is, I'm like, oh, you've missed the point.

[A]

You have missed the point.

[B]

You've missed the point. It's gone full circle. But one of the sort of, I think, early critiques was, this isn't what France is really like. The French will be up in arms about this. And I have two things to say to that. One, it's not. Not how France is and why French people are like, they are a bit like that.

[A]

They are a bit like that.

[B]

They are a bit like that. And. And the two, I think French people also enjoy this. And here is my evidence. I went to France last week. I watched part of episode two of season four in the garden of the little B and B. I was staying in with my friend Heather, and the very chic, very elegant owner Charlotte walked past and I was like, oh, no, we're going to really embarrass ourselves by watching Emily in Paris in your garden. And she went, I saw that one last night. I love it.

[A]

That's the thing about how great Emily in Paris is and how it takes the piss out of everyone equally.

[B]

British people, French people, American people.

[A]

It's just there. This is. This is a very strongly held belief of mine in that, like, obviously not to sound like I'm rallying against the woke left or anything.

[B]

Fuck those guys.

[A]

But, like, I do think in general, people really like it when they're close. Country is taking the piss out of in a really, like, harmless way. Like, obviously there's hatefulness, there's xenophobia and there's racism. Not here for that. But in general, I think, like having a crack at a funny accent in a loving way. Like being like, French people are a bit like this. Like when people, like take the piss out of Irish people for things I haven't heard yet. I think it's so funny. I think it's so, so funny. Like, Gavin does this impression sometimes of like Irish people in the smoking area. How, how you're just trying to get it to leave and get a drink and they're mid yarn and they like start smoking and stabbing your shoulder with one. With one finger because they keep on. They won't let their yarn go and you can't leave their Yarn. Once you're involved in there. I was like, that's so funny to me when, like, Steve Coogan does his Irish accent. That is so funny to me when people, like, people take the piss out of you for reasons that, like, aren't general. I think it's delightful.

[B]

It's wonderful. It's specific.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

The show is very good at that.

[A]

Yeah, it does.

[B]

Also, it very much turns the knife on itself too. Because a really easy way to up. Up Emily in Paris.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Would be to Mary sue her and be like, here she is civilizing the French. No. She looks so silly. She's doing things that are so. So American.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we all know they're very American. And I do work in advertising and marketing firms and some of them have been internationally owned. And sometimes you have had real keen bean, little American girlies popping across and they are Emily in Paris. Like, I have. I've worked with Emily's in Paris who were like, who are corporate commandments in London. And we're just like, stop this. What are you talking about? I was thinking we'd do a meeting at 8. No, we won't. We will not be coming in at 8. What are you talking about?

[A]

Not be doing that. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Words like ideate. It's not real.

[A]

It's not right. It's not real.

[B]

We're not imagineering anything. You know, it's very true. Like, Penwen has very perfectly observed American marketing girlies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she gets it as much as the French do. And we do get British characters later, but not in this season.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. I don't want to see them just yet.

[B]

No, I'm sorry. They wait a while before they introduce the concept of the Eurostar.

[A]

Yeah. They're like, did you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You gotta really wait for that for a season three finale.

[B]

Literally three seasons in. It's like.

[A]

And by the way, you can go to London.

[B]

There's a whole other country but two hours from here and there are people there.

[A]

I'm gonna watch every single episode. But I think probably with you, I imagine.

[B]

Oh, it's very. Yeah. It's a very collective watch because we're.

[A]

Coming to the end of this podcast.

[B]

Season and what will we do after?

[A]

We'll watch Emily in Paris together.

[B]

We'll simply watch Emily in Paris. It will take us about three nights because it's very short.

[A]

You only hear what we have to say about it.

[B]

You will.

[A]

Because I'll be writing a novel, but.

[B]

I'll be thinking about it. So ask Jen, maybe ask me so we have a lot of French characters in this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you probably don't know their names yet, but I'll tell you the main ones.

[A]

Okay. You've got obviously, who's crazy here?

[B]

That's Luke.

[A]

Luke. I like him very much.

[B]

He's very good.

[A]

Julien.

[B]

Julien. He is the other person who works at Savoie.

[A]

The black guy. Yes, yes.

[B]

And there is also Sylvie.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Who is named not after your dog.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, she's obviously great.

[B]

She's phenomenal. I think we should talk about her. There's Antoine, the kind of pervy client.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who sends Emily underwear.

[B]

Yes. There is Gabrielle, the chef.

[A]

Yes. Very attractive. This young man.

[B]

We will talk about this young man. And of course, there's Camille.

[A]

Camille. Camille Lucas.

[B]

Is that your front runner? Who's your favorite so far of this cast of French cast characters?

[A]

Oh, j'adore, Sylvie. I think she's wonderful, but I just. I just love any. Any older, disapproving woman.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Real fun. And, like, also, I often think that, like, you know, when you get those characters and things, they are. There's very little justification for why they are the way they are, except for the fact that, like, they hate younger women, which is very flimsy. But, like.

[B]

And they're French, but, like.

[A]

Yeah, and they're French and like. And Sylvie's just like, you're annoying.

[B]

But that's the thing. She's correctly identified Emily as an annoying person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she's annoyed by her openly.

[A]

She's a little yapper.

[B]

She's a little yapper. And Sylvie's the exact opposite. Sylvie, our Sylvie is. So I know her big bat ears are doing, like, radar stations right now.

[A]

Because we keep saying her name.

[B]

We do.

[A]

In unfamiliar tones.

[B]

Sorry. But we talked in the postcard about being a 10 in the head, a 10 in the heart, a 10 in the world. And I think Sylvie.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Is that because she's a woman in probably her late 40s, early 50s, you.

[A]

Know, whereas Emily, a 10 in the head, a two in the heart, a.

[B]

Six in the world.

[A]

A six in the world.

[B]

Like Sylvie Fox. Emily.

[A]

Yeah. No, yeah.

[B]

But Sylvie's just. She's just moving through being like, I'm extremely attractive and great.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

She is an icon. We should all be much more Sylvie.

[A]

I do think, like, when tracking Emily's sort of, like, marketing career through this, which is very familiar to me, having once been a social media manager and.

[B]

Even more familiar to. To me, who then still be in that world.

[A]

But I used to Literally, write. Write tweets. Whereas you never had to.

[B]

No, that's right.

[A]

That was beneath you.

[B]

I used to tell you what you should write in your tweets, but in a strategic way. And then you made it fun. And that's how we met.

[A]

That's nice. And then someone who then, like, you know, sort of span off into podcasting, which is my. This is my emilyinparis. This is your Emily sentimental garbage. So I do understand the, like, if people won't listen to me, I will just simply become my own empire. Exactly.

[B]

You did it so well.

[A]

And I. I think it's. It's fascinating when we get, like, her, like, Emily sort of, like. What's the word? Her, like, savant knowledge of marketing that, like, I love how, like, they dispense with any of the numbers, strategy, anything, everyone. She just says something. People nod and go, okay, I like it.

[B]

Yeah. I actually wish that working in marketing was more like that.

[A]

It would be lovely.

[B]

Because sometimes I say a thing that I think is really clever, and people, like, prove it. And I'm like, I can't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

No one ever asks Emily to prove it. They just take a punt on her crazy ideas. Sure.

[B]

She just says random things, and they're like, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And one of the things that she says when her Emily, the marketing savant said is that they're talking about this luxury perfume d'allure. Is that what it is?

[B]

Which I think just means on time.

[A]

Is that what it.

[B]

I mean, my French. My sort of idiomatic French is poor, but I genuinely think it just means on time.

[A]

On time.

[B]

Maybe it's a joke about Emily. Who knows?

[A]

And she says something like. And Sylvie's like, this is like, a luxury brand. It's about, like, scarcity and, you know, not everybody can have it and whatever. And Emily says, but you, like, I want what you have, and you already have it, and you don't know.

[B]

We know what it feels like to want it.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And you don't even know how you got it. And, like, it's very. I thought it was very cunning observation.

[B]

Emily is a smart girl.

[A]

She's a smart girl, but she's also an idiot.

[B]

She's a smart girl dressed like a clown.

[A]

Yeah. It's so beautifully balanced that she is both a smart girl and a fucking idiot. I love it because I think if there were too many of those, like, Emily the marketing savant moments strung together, you'd be like, for fuck's sake. But it's just enough of her making a clown of herself and also being a marketing savant.

[B]

Yeah. She's like 5% Don Draper, and that's the most you can be.

[A]

Oh, my God. She's 5% Don Draper. It's so true.

[B]

And it's very powerful the way she's just like, no, it is Mad Men.

[A]

This show, isn't it?

[B]

It's a little bit of Mad Men. It's a real. I genuinely love it. I think it's like a lovely bakery of a show. Just go in there. Which sweet treat will I have today? Who knows? I think talking of her marketing savants, there was one thing, a line that I really enjoyed, and I don't really know what to say about it other than that I thought it was very funny, which is when Emily's having a debate about the nude woman on a bridge.

[A]

Oh, yes, Yes. I love that. I love that whole thing.

[B]

Her little face when the woman takes her trench coat off. Like, oh, no.

[A]

I love when she's. She's trying to have behind the scenes content for the Instagram page or whatever, and she goes up to her and she says, like, I don't speak French. And she's like, oh, wow, great. Me neither. And she's like, I'm Siberian or something. Or I'm Serbian Serbia and you're Siberian, isn't it?

[B]

That's not a thing. No.

[A]

And then she says, okay, what does a dream of beauty mean to you? And she goes, no. She goes, private plane. Takes off her trench coat, is totally naked, and says no pictures, and then just walks across.

[B]

It feels very true.

[A]

It just feels real. It's not relatable, but it is real. Feeling.

[B]

It feels real and so also feels real. What? What's so also? So does the conversation that ensues between Emily and the slightly pervy older male client, where Emily's like, I'm not sure that a woman truly dreams of walking nude across a bridge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he says, she's beautiful and she's naked, which gives her more power. And I was like, that is what men think. I think they're that, like, that is. I wasn't listening to that. Going, no one thinks that. I was like, oh, oh, that explains so many adverts that men have made.

[A]

I love that scene so much because, like. Because many things in the show remind me of another wonderful show, the bull type.

[B]

I love the bull type.

[A]

Both love. But I think often that show was very much like millennial issue of the week. Marketing girlies trying to just have it.

[B]

All at the magazine.

[A]

At the magazine. And then the dot com.

[B]

Oh, and then the dot com Calm. That was a difficult moment for Tiny Jane and her friends.

[A]

But I think often those conversations, they started in the middle. They started with the assumption that the audience, who are obviously millennial women who read Jezebel and such, already know what we're all talking about. Whereas, like, when Emily is having this conversation with the client, which. Whose name is Antoine. Antoine, she's like, this isn't, you know, empowering or whatever. And like, and. Or this is sexist. And he's just like, completely starting at the beginning, he's like, what, sorry?

[B]

The MeToo movement completely passed him by. He was just somewhere nude in a room of women.

[A]

Totally. And, like, it's so interesting when you're having that conversation with somebody. And, like, when you're having an argument with a man, for example, and he's kind of boned up vaguely on everything you're talking about, but he has his own thoughts. And you can squabble in the pub until the fucking sun comes up, but when someone is starting at the beginning and it's just like, no, being nude is powerful and being sexy is power, you almost can't argue with it because it's such like. It's like arguing with the pyramids. You're like, I can't even.

[B]

It's kind of refreshing, isn't it?

[A]

It is.

[B]

Kind of times, I think I've had spirited debates about feminism with men who know quite a bit about feminism, but therefore are really prickly about being corrected, accused of not knowing about feminism. And like, I'm not one of those guys who doesn't know anything. And. And you feel like you're having to walk around. Whereas with Antoine, he's just there being like, oh, no, I didn't send you underwear so that I could fuck you. I just want you to feel sexy. And that's a good and appropriate thing for me to do as your client. And he's like. He's not. Like, there's no game there. He's not playing around. He fully is just like, yeah.

[A]

Oh, really? Is that. This isn't the beginning of a Emily Fox Antoine storyline, is it?

[B]

Well, I'm gonna let you make predictions.

[A]

Have to see.

[B]

But he genuinely is like, just fully, earnestly like, no, I just thought you would love this lace, extra expensive lace underwear that I bought for you. And that wouldn't feel weird at all.

[A]

The ad they end up making is so. I know that it's not an accurate depiction of Paris, but it is an Accurate depiction of French advertising.

[B]

It's actually an accurate depiction of all perfume adverts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I believe they even say it's a perfume commercial. It's not supposed to make sense after she turns into a dove and flaps off into the sky.

[A]

So. Good.

[B]

But have you ever seen the Twitter account perfume ads?

[A]

I have, yes. Yes.

[B]

So, like, there's a whole thing to be made there about how stupid perfume ads are.

[A]

And you know what? I have great sympathy for the craziness of the perfume advert because it's very hard to conjure a smell.

[B]

Well, exactly what are you supposed to say? You can either be really, really rational and be like, bass note, mid note, top note, or you can go, it's kind of like a nude woman walking across a bridge, turning into a dove and then fucking off into the Paris sunset.

[A]

Much better. It's kind of like Charlize Theron taking off all her gold jewelry and then her gold dress. That's how this perfume feels. And on some level, I get that.

[B]

Yeah. I get.

[A]

Or Nicole Kipman saying, I love to dance.

[B]

Oh, my God, I've forgotten that one.

[A]

That just goes round.

[B]

Egregious one.

[A]

I love to dance.

[B]

I love to dance. The one that I always Is not actually a. Well, there must be a TV version of it, but I don't think it's played very much for reasons. Is the one that Johnny Depp fronts.

[A]

Which is called Sauvage.

[B]

And the number of times I see it, I just go, sausage in my head. Sausage. Just put a little. Sausage. Sausage. Why did nobody think, look at that and think, it's one letter away from sausage.

[A]

And savage. From a man who famously.

[B]

Yeah, that's true, that's true. Yeah.

[A]

Famously might have beat his wife. And I think probably did.

[B]

I'm going to agree with you there.

[A]

We hate him.

[B]

But, yeah, perfume ads, I love that they just went straight in there with the perfume ad. But also to really show the highs and lows of marketing, there's perfume, but there's also vaginal dryness cream.

[A]

Very, very agency life. Isn't it true?

[B]

Like, that is. That's fully a thing that happens. You'll be there and you'll be working on a thing and someone will be like, I also need to do a social media review of this, like, medication. It makes people shit themselves. Tell me what they're saying online. That was a job I did in my first job.

[A]

Oh, yeah. My first job at our advertising agency was moderating the Vanish Tip Exchange, if you'll recall. Oh, no, this is before you joined. That was. I joined about six months before you did.

[B]

You knew like two weeks before. No, you were definitely on it when I was there.

[A]

Oh, really? Okay.

[B]

What could you moderate out? Were people like fighting? Were they encouraging one another to drink Vanish or something?

[A]

No. So. So the Vanish tip exchange was like this. It was in the glory days of user generated content being repurposed by brands and it was that. It was like a Facebook portal. It was like a microsite within Facebook where people. People could like. Like portals. I know. Or you could like post your stubborn stains or whatever and be like, vanish community. How do I get sunscreen out of my white T shirt? And the answer is always soakish and vanish.

[B]

And funny how the tips were always the same.

[A]

But it was advertised so much on TV that like, obviously people would just take the piss and it was just like they would upload just like blood poo and calm. It was just every morning, me as my Emily in Paris years, I had to wake up and moderate hundreds of pictures of blood, poo and cum. That was my first real job in marketing. Oh my God. And it's started at the bottom now.

[B]

We hear it doesn't change. I'm pretty sure that's still what people have to do.

[A]

They really did a good job though in finding like the least squeamish marketing girly they could possibly have found. Yeah, you were just there being like.

[B]

Pull tomato sauce. Poo. Poo poo. I can kind of. I can imagine this for you actually as a. Yeah, not even hard to imagine because I was there. I didn't have to do that. I just write like Venn diagrams about what we were going to make the tip exchange do. Probably stupid job anyway.

[A]

Oh, so I want to talk about vaja Jean.

[B]

You want to talk about vaja Jean? Yes, Vaja Jean. Vajajun.

[A]

The way that. Okay, so she's vaginal dryness cream or whatever. And she is obviously learning the rudimentaries of the French language and how language is gendered and why the word for vagina in French as a male is le vagin is le va jean as opposed to la vajan. And she's like, why is it male? And then I think Sylvie says something amazing like she says, because a woman.

[B]

Owns it, but a man possesses it.

[A]

Fucking Simone de Beauvoir coming out of her ear. So great. I was like, wow, I can't believe someone just wrote that down at Emily in Paris. And then she tweets about it and Brigitte Macron just goes Exactment.

[B]

And retweets it.

[A]

It's so weird. They evoked her so of its time. So weird.

[B]

So of its moment.

[A]

Madame, there's something. It's something really strange about that because I remember, like, when things used to evoke the Queen all the time and it would just show some, like the behind of a. Of a grey perm and a little English voice and they'll be, oh, that's the Queen. But it's something way weirder when it's a Prime Minister's wife.

[B]

Yeah, President is president. Sorry, yeah. The French system is a mystery to me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But she's just there retweeting and she just says, absolutely. And this apparently makes Vaja Jeune's life. The clients are delighted.

[A]

But actually, do you know what? That it would.

[B]

To be fair, it genuinely would, because Madame Macron is, you know, of that age.

[A]

I remember I got a disciplinary once at work at tmw.

[B]

No, tell me, tell me, tell me.

[A]

Tell me, tell me. Because I was covering the walls ice cream account and I was at this point, very much falling out of love with marketing.

[B]

It's easy to do.

[A]

I was trying desperately to just get other jobs. I was trying for jobs in publishing, jobs in media or whatever. Just trying, trying, trying and completely eye off the ball, whatever. And I missed that. Emma Bunton on her radio show was talking about. I think it was Pink Magnums, which is also owned by the same ice cream company. Like those. Pink. Maybe that was it. No, there, you know, or maybe it was Twister. It was some ice cream Twister.

[B]

Or like the little. Little foots on a stick.

[A]

Yeah, it was some ice cream. Anyway, clearly my. I was so far off the boil, like, whatever. But she was going. She went on about it in. On a radio show. Loads of people tweeted the account and, like, that would have been the moment for me to be like, emma Bunton, surprise coming your way or whatever. Because those moments for a BR and are actually their gold dust. You can't plan for them. They just happen. You have to make the most of them. And I just didn't.

[B]

You just were like.

[A]

And I got like a disciplinary over it. So, like, I did. Fair enough. Like, I've missed out on a huge opportunity for the brand and once these things pass, they're gone. You know, once, like three days later, and we're like, oh, by the way, I'm abundant. We heard your thing about ice cream. Like, you can't really claim that sort of organic moment. Bang. You have to just act in the moment.

[B]

God, I'm glad I just did the PowerPoint bit of this.

[A]

No, it's such a shit. Oh, it's such a shit job.

[B]

I actually don't think there is much in the way of social media management jobs in the world in the way that there once was.

[A]

No.

[B]

I think like, even Emily in Paris, she is kind of straddling social media manager, but also like digital strategist and brand strategist. Because there are like, there are some brands that still need that, but most do not.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, no one's organically following also.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. You know, she. Yeah, she's basically doing every marketing job that isn't like she just does it all. She just does everything is marketing and that's fine. Like she's going out like chasing down new clients, which I'm like, she's new business girl.

[B]

Yeah, she's like, she's an account man. She's also, she's a planner.

[A]

She's coming up with hotel fragrances.

[B]

She's doing everything. I love that for her. That's. That's not a true representation of, of the, of the world of it. Because it's actually like very different dogs with different jobs and never the dogs may be crossed.

[A]

No, people don't like that.

[B]

People get really weird about it. A thing I do love about Vaja Jean because again, a lesser show. Yeah, A lesser show would have taken the piss out of Ajahjun and made it like a weird thing that vaginal dryness exists in older women. Just fully plays it straight. They're like, this is actually genuinely a problem.

[A]

I like it.

[B]

I think it's kind of like a little bit of menopause awareness there.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

It is a whole thing. The last couple of years, I think there's been more and more awareness that menopause is just this not talked about thing that pretty much every person who's got a uterus will go through.

[A]

Yeah, it's so interesting. And this summer I've read two books, one by Moran Nijlai and one by Marion Keys, where like menopause and perimenopause plays a huge part. And it's really cool.

[B]

It's really cool. And it's cool that this show which has absolutely no like agenda for menopause. It's just like that's the thing that happens that's annoying and just is like. Yeah, there's products for it doesn't. Doesn't make it like a silly, a silly joke in the way that let's say I don't know. A 90s TV show would have been like, oh, no, vaginas, they don't stay moist.

[A]

She's taken off the perfume campaign to work on the vaginal dryness campaign. And she just, like. She's annoyed because her work has been interrupted, but she's like, not like a. I would be on the vaginal dryness campaign.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. Emily just. There's no small parts for Emily.

[B]

She just.

[A]

There's only small actors, you know.

[B]

She's a real team player.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think she would be slightly annoying, but I would fucking love to have her on my team. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

She'd be a little powerhouse. She'd be a little pocket rocket.

[A]

I'm so glad to hear that. We never find out the reason why she's so eager and keen. She just simply is.

[B]

Like, it's been four years. No one knows.

[A]

Just some girls just be like that.

[B]

And she's. She is also. And I genuinely. She's a friend. Brave girl. She just ups and goes and she just. She just boldly goes her way through Paris hoping for the best. She's faking it till she makes it.

[A]

I also love her friend, the nanny.

[B]

Oh, Mindy.

[A]

Mindy is great. Mindy's great in everything. She's in. She's also in Joyride and she's also in Girls5Ever, which I think you would love.

[B]

I've not seen Girls5Ever, but he's about.

[A]

A bunch of menopausal posts. Girl band? Yeah.

[B]

I haven't heard of it.

[A]

It's. It's completely, like, flopped, but it's so good. It's, like, made by Tina Fey. The music is amazing. They're, like, basically a naughty pop band who had one hit and now they've gotten back together. The music is amazing. Anyway, she's in it. She's.

[B]

What is she playing? She surely can't be one of the band members.

[A]

Yeah, she is. Well, she's the. She's the dead one. But is she dead? We don't know, Sylvie.

[B]

Just her king in the corner there. You're right there, Sylv.

[A]

You're right there, babes.

[B]

Had a moment? Yeah. Okay. I'm definitely gonna watch Girls 5 ever.

[A]

But she's so good.

[B]

And she is very good.

[A]

And she can sing, and she can sing, and I just. She's got such great little lines of just like. It's Sancerre. It's a breakfast wine.

[B]

I love that thing. We've spoken a lot about lovely Sylvie about Mindy. I feel like at this stage in season one, Mindy hasn't come into her true power yet. She does.

[A]

Yeah. She can tell she's gonna be a big figure.

[B]

She's got storylines coming in. And Camille, also, I want to know. I want any, like, predictions you have on episode five for Cammie and for. Well, we'll talk about Cami yet for Mindy. And what do you think happens to Mindy?

[A]

Okay, so Mindy's whole story is that she was disinherited by her millionaire father.

[B]

The zipper king of China.

[A]

The zipper king of China, because she didn't want to go to business school, and now she's working as a nanny. Do you know what? I can't even. I'm not even going to use that as a guess for what will happen next, because so frequently shows just come up with a bio for someone and then they discard it. And this feels like one of these shows. I couldn't possibly say, okay. I feel like she's going to become an expensive French man's mistress, and we'll see her, like, do loads of, like, I'm rich now, in a way.

[B]

I love this. I put that into the notes. You know, people who are listening can be like, yes or no? I won't tell you. We'll find out. We'll find out.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like, obviously there's going to be a lot of drama and story around Camille and Gabriel. Is that his name?

[B]

Gabriel?

[A]

Gabriel Gabrielle, the chef, where I think Cammie is going to be, like, to Emily, I think. I don't know, maybe it's over for me and him and Emily's like, oh, you're so nice.

[B]

I think you've correctly identified one of the central narrative tensions of Emily in Paris is the Camille, Gabrielle, Emily triangle situation, as the French might say.

[A]

Situation.

[B]

I don't think they'd say that. God knows what they would say. And I probably misused it a bit. Like the moment where Emily says, je suis trait. Excite to be here. And then they just go. That means I'm really horny to be here. And she's like, okay.

[A]

Whoops. I think those moments are actually really well spaced out.

[B]

Not too many, not too few.

[A]

Yeah, not too. Exactly. They just. It's very, very well balanced, the show in terms of, like, its cynicism and its hope, you know? Yeah. And I. I will say, though, I. And I hope to see this develop and change. I think something about Lily Collins repels sexual chemistry. I think she's very good at being in a scene with somebody and bouncing dialogue off of, like, an older woman trying to sell her roses or whatever. But I just. She is so fuckless as a human being.

[B]

You said to me last night, it's like watching an American Girl doll fuck. And when she got the vibrator out, you were like, no, this can't happen. I can't see this.

[A]

Yeah, it felt so weird.

[B]

I. The thing is, I don't think this ever changes, but I think what happens is that the horny comes from other characters. And I think you kind of almost need Emily to remain sort of sexless. A sort of sexless Barbie doll. I'm not saying she doesn't have sex. I'm just saying it's not like that bit.

[A]

Okay, so the bit where she goes to the house party, that was supposed to be a dinner party thrown for her, and then there's an absolute rager, and then she leaves with that man. And they don't really speak much of the same language, and so they're just trying to be like, oh, I like your eyes. I like your shoulder, or whatever. And then he's like, kind of kisses her neck and then says, like, he was supposed to her. I love American Buzzy.

[B]

Hot.

[A]

I was like, that is hot. In that. In that time, in that place, with that sort of level of contact. You just left a party. It's probably one in the morning. I was like, let's do it.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

And she's just, like, disgraced.

[B]

She does not understand. She does not get it.

[A]

Yeah. Because she is an American Girl doll.

[B]

Yeah. And things. I don't think she ever will. I don't think this is about Emma developing massively as a character, But I.

[A]

Do like that she does have her boundaries, and she does. She's not going to like, she, like, even with her. With her horrible. Not her weird client who sends her underwear, she's like, okay, I understand that you didn't mean anything nefarious by it, but this is still my boundary, and I still find it inappropriate. And don't do it again. I was like, good for you. Good for you.

[B]

And then she simply pretends that Gabrielle, the hot chef, sent them to her.

[A]

Yes. Thinking on her feet are Emily in this Paris.

[B]

I do think we need to talk about Gabrielle, the hot chef.

[A]

Yes. I mean, he's very hot.

[B]

The thing is, he's extremely hot. And that's the main thing we can say about. I believe the actor is called Lucas Bravo, which is also a hilarious name.

[A]

Yes, that is hilarious.

[B]

I mean, can you imagine Walking around the world being called Lucas Bravo.

[A]

I mean, we've got a Lauren Bravo.

[B]

You're absolutely right. Somehow Lucas is funnier. Do you reckon they're related, Lauren?

[A]

Hope so.

[B]

Is this your cousin?

[A]

He's fabulous.

[B]

Yeah, he's fabulous. What I find interesting about him, this is very personal to me, is I. For me, a chef is an absolute deal breaker. Like when I'm on the romance.

[A]

Yeah. This is not a. The Bear Chef.

[B]

No. When I'm on a romance based app game, I. E. Hinge or Bumble. And this is what Caroline calls the dating apps. It's very funny.

[A]

Yeah. So we were talking about Hinge politics yesterday and I said you can't think of it as an app or a dating app. You must think of it as a romance based app game. In the same way that Duolingo is a language based app game. You are not going to learn French off of Duolingo. You are not going to fall in love via Hinge.

[B]

No. But you're having a fun time. It's gamifying the city. You're having a little chat. But we were talking about Hinge politics and certainly everyone has these things that like just. They're completely pointless and they make no sense and they're really judgy. But there are things where they turn up on someone's profile and you're like, absolutely not. They could be the fittest person in the whole world. Everything else about them could be delicious and I'd still swipe no. And for me chefs is that I'm an absolute hardline. No chefs, really.

[A]

Even for a bang?

[B]

Even for a bang.

[A]

They get off at 1am they come over, they make you an omelet, you have sex.

[B]

Look. Is it lovely?

[A]

That is my fantasy of the situation.

[B]

See, listen, you're clearly. And the thing is, I'm sure the chefs are cleaning up on the romance based app game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But not for me because for me, every chef I've ever encountered in my life has deep seated anger issues.

[A]

Yes, they are.

[B]

They are intense. They are taking cooking way too seriously.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

They are furious. Most of the time they throw like, they're just.

[A]

They do.

[B]

I have worked in restaurants, so that's part of my experience.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I just. There's something about them. Obviously, for reasons of. Of my family, fighter pilots are also off the agenda. But lucky, there's about four of those now. Yeah, yeah. But like there's just something. So for me, chefs grows this Gabrielle, surname unknown, is the only chef I've ever thought.

[A]

Yes, He's a gentle chef. Yeah. It's like, if you remember that it was a viral tweet from many years ago, and chef's table was a big thing.

[B]

I wouldn't watch it because Chefs.

[A]

But it was like the tweet. Something like, every woman chef on Chef table is like, my grandma instilled me with the love of food and feeding people. And every mad chef is. I was a bad little boy and I had to go to Kitchen Army. It's so true.

[B]

It's soldiery. But in the kitchen. Yeah, There are knives there. They love it.

[A]

They love it.

[B]

They love it. Do you ever see that terrible, terrible film which Bradley Cooper is in, about being a chef?

[A]

Burnt. It's burnt. Turning it off after 20 minutes.

[B]

I watched the whole thing, and it. It. I can't speak of it.

[A]

Oh, my God. That man gives me the ick in a major way.

[B]

But then make him a chef.

[A]

Make him a chef. And all I remember is the opening scene where he's shucking a thousand oysters and he crosses off the thousandth oyster, and he's like, I'm out of here.

[B]

I throw that somehow, someone. I don't know, maybe that's why I haven't watched the Bear. It's just all the chefs.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I think there's a lot of them out here.

[A]

There's a lot of them. There's quite a few of them. There's a few episodes I think you would appreciate.

[B]

Okay, well, maybe I'll give it a go. But Gabrielle is a chef that doesn't exist. And in fact, actually, I do believe that we later hear that his lore is that he did learn cooking at his grandmother's knee, and that's why he's a gentle, tender chef.

[A]

Lovely. I love when she. She can't get the reservation at the Michelin Star restaurant, and then she takes all of her clients. His restaurant. He keeps it open for her. Lovely little scene.

[B]

Lovely little scene.

[A]

The food looks delicious. I will say the way they kind of construct the fantasy of the little French bistro, and some of those bistros do exist, but, like, the way they've sort of concocted and lit and made them on screen is just so delicious. All kind of red wood. Wood and gold letterings, and it's just beautiful.

[B]

Makes you want to go there, and you actually can, because that is actually a real bistro in Paris. But as you can probably imagine, it's now full of influences.

[A]

I would think so.

[B]

And I think. I believe for the most recent season, they had to just reconstruct the set on a stage because they just cannot film her anymore.

[A]

Wow. Yeah.

[B]

Fun facts from behind the scenes of Emily in Paris.

[A]

While we're on the subject of influencers, I am so, like, compelled by this very certain era of Instagram influencer that Emily is. Because it really is accurate to a certain time and place, but that time and place is now gone.

[B]

Yes. It is a little time capsule. You can take a picture of something and put a hashtag on it, like.

[A]

A boomerang of her eating a pastry.

[B]

You know, like 10,000 followers.

[A]

10,000 followers. But like, you know, it reminds me of, you know, Caroline Calloway.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Her first viral post was a picture of macarons in Paris, you know, and it's like. And that is excited. When people are like talking about the vast area of study that is Caroline Calloway. They always begin with the macarons photo. You know, it's like, it's like a. You know, it's so strange that we were ever that basic, you know, but we really were. But that was like the cave paintings of Instagram. Now they are these complex multi level things where, like, it's all professional.

[B]

Do you ever go back into your own Instagram, into the deep? The deep?

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because like the way we were using those filters, the quality of foam we were shooting on, and yet it's still like someone's giving you 100 likes or some grainy, sepia toned picture of a cat you saw somewhere.

[A]

A sepia toned picture of a coffee machine I bought, like, not even, like, not even like a kind of a fancy espresso maker or whatever. Like a tatio that has a capsule in it and me putting a CPF hooter on it.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Why, why, why?

[B]

We didn't know.

[A]

We didn't know. It was just at the beginning of thinking that your life, which was ordinary, could be photogenic and worth something. And that was the beginning of it. It was like quite a sweet, innocent time for a very. And it really makes sense in this very sweet and innocent show.

[B]

It does. And I think probably, if we're honest, the time, the Instagram time that Emily is in is earlier than the time in which this show came out.

[A]

Yeah. Because it might just take a few years to develop. Right. So.

[B]

But I feel like this show's almost set 10 years in the past.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There is no pandemic in Emily in Paris. Just spoiler.

[A]

You're so right. It's not like it's squarely in 2014.

[B]

It is that's basically when I think it's happening. It's kind of in that liminal space. A bit like sex education, where it's like, is it the 50s or is it now?

[A]

Yeah, and I love that.

[B]

I love when it makes it even better.

[A]

Someone has the gumption to just kind of create their own version of the world and stick to it. It's very Wes Anderson y in that way.

[B]

There was a touch of the Wes Anderson. It's a trouser leg of time where many bad things never happened and just.

[A]

Bad things don't happen in this show.

[B]

No. The stakes are profoundly low.

[A]

Yeah. The stakes are about marketing and kissing.

[B]

You know, every now and then, as you'll see, there'll be a caper because a fancy piece of jewellery almost gets lost.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, oh, they go somewhere and a thing happens there. It's lovely.

[A]

Did you watch that show at all? Call my agent.

[B]

I actually did. Not the French show, but I believe it is meant to be very good.

[A]

But it's very good and it has a lot in common with Emily in Paris.

[B]

French.

[A]

French First. Not first of all, it's French. I would say, you know, if you were to get a midpoint between the bear and Emily in Paris, it would be. Call my agent.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. And, you know, I think if you know anything. I don't know anything about French cinema, but it's full of, like, French legacy actors who are playing themselves and sort of aping their own thing. It's very enjoyable. But it's like. I just think it's one of these things that's kind of in between a drama and a comedy where, like, you could just, you know, be having a caper about, like, oh, someone's a dog in the office and it's pooed everywhere. Yes. Or it could just be like rape culture in theater, you know, and you're like, oh, it's a bit of a whiplash, actually. And I don't really know how much of this I want to watch in one sitting. Whereas, like Emily Paris, it really reassures you what kind of world you're in for. And it's going to hold you in that space wherever, as long as you.

[B]

Want to watch it much more. You've stood in a poo. Indeed. I think that happens twice in the first five episodes. She stands in a poo, her client's a bit unhappy. There's some interesting stuff that comes in later around kind of what is fashion?

[A]

There's been so much content in the world about, like, how much dog Shit. There is in Paris. And they will not do a thing about it.

[B]

She really won't. They're like, this is our dog shit. This is a national icon. This is part of the fabric of the city.

[A]

Is the dog shit what we're gonna do? Pick up shit.

[B]

Are you kidding?

[A]

No. Ab Salument.

[B]

And it's just very true, this show. Like, that's the thing that's so wonderful about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It is. Like, is it the Paris that I've been to? No, but it's not far away from it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like a few. It's a few bright filters away from the true Paris.

[A]

That was actually what I was most surprised by, by the show. Because when I've heard and read things about this show, people have always sort of said, like, oh, yeah, it's like this weird, like, Disneyland fantasy of Paris. And having recently gone to a Disneyland fantasy of Paris, when I went to Disneyland in Paris, I will say it had some things in common with that. But, like, I was, like, I was actually surprised that it was like. I think it was. It's more nuanced than people give it credit for. And I do think that, like, the world. We are seeing the world, like, in the same way in Chicago, we see, see, the musical numbers exist because we are see. Because Roxy sees everything as a show, and I think Emily sees everything as Instagram. So she just. We see the world the way she sees the world as Instagram.

[B]

And, like, it is like the way your brain works. Just glosses over stuff it can't be asked with.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And the thing is, like, does all of Paris look like Emily in Paris? Absolutely not. But, like, many of the central bits do look like that. And indeed, it is shot on location in Paris. Like, yeah, you are just. You're seeing an Emily view.

[A]

And maybe those offices look like that as well. I think a few French offices.

[B]

I've definitely been to client offices that look exactly like that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

That is where they work.

[A]

It's lovely.

[B]

Lucky them. But there's no, you know, we're not. Emily in Paris is not about to engage with, like, the massive kind of, like, wealth disparities in Paris and, like, hate crime and anything like that. It's just going like, here's France.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You do get to get to see outside of Paris in subsequent episodes and. And series, which is extremely nice because you get to see other bits of France through the Instagram.

[A]

That's a good find. It.

[B]

It is a good bit of stuff.

[A]

But, like, I also Wanted to mention that one of the last episodes we watched was where Sylvie has banned Emily from Instagram. And she actually makes a very good point for it. She says, like, because Emily's invited to a makeup brand sort of launch party or whatever, where there's the most extraordinary character, which I'll get back to in a second. But first, so she said, you know, basically Sylvie makes a very fair point, which is that you can't be seen to be doing work for other clients for free.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is fair enough. And so then she deletes her Instagram or she doesn't actually delete it, she like temporarily suspends it or whatever. But before she does that, I think you were asleep with point.

[B]

I remember it. Don't worry.

[A]

Yeah, her and Mindy go out for a night on the town to sort of see off Instagram and they take lots of like generic, silly Instagram photos that, you know, we remember from 2014 of just like trying on hats and, you know, whatever, 3,000 likes. And what I actually love about this show as well is that it has, it has a representation of young women using social media in a way that is completely untapped. Hand wringy. Do you mean? It's so like, I just, I'm so, as, as, as you know, I have, I have a love hate relationship with Instagram. I do know that where there is something inside of me that is Emily in Paris, that is like I am a born poster. There is. I have an addiction. And that has been there since I was 12, like writing into fan forums of like that feeling of like putting a message in a bottle and throwing it out to sea and people all over the world just seeing it and you don't have to engage with what they say, but they've seen it and that's like really exciting to me. And it will never, on some level, you know, I delete Instagram for long periods of time. Sometimes I try and give myself screen time, whatever, but like that will. I will always be a poster. I'm a poster. You are a lurker. I'm a poster.

[B]

I'm a long time lurker, very rare poster.

[A]

I love the feeling of it. And like I am, I'm sort of so sick of like constantly admonishing myself because I want to be sort of taken seriously as like a writer and a thinker or whatever and even on some level a podcaster.

[B]

You can be both.

[A]

Can you, can you do that and also be very silly on Instagram stories all the time?

[B]

I think you can.

[A]

But like, nonetheless, I am, I'm always hitting myself over the head about it and, and like Emily doesn't. No, Emily's just like, I'm, I care about my job and my life and my friends. I am not this like self absorbed millennial who just cares about their own selfies or whatever she's saying. I'm having a good time with me, my friend and my phone.

[B]

Exactly. A 10 in the head, a 10 in the heart, a 10 on the feed.

[A]

Just a 10 on the feed.

[B]

She's just putting out there. No, I, Yeah, I hadn't thought about this because, you know, as you say, I like, I have. Larry, I have an extremely haphazard relationship with all of the social media in that like I kind of know what's happening. But do I post anything? Do I remember to check my messages? Not really. No. Forget they're there. And that's. And there's no sort of psychically injurious relationship with social for me also probably because it's my job in a different way to ever was for yours. And I'm just like, that's a thing. We used to sell stuff. But yeah, I hadn't really seen the kind of the tonic nature of Emily.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Basically rehabilitating social media as just a thing that is a bit fun and silly and we don't have to take it that seriously. But you can have a nice time there and you can get free stuff.

[A]

Yeah. Like it does. It's like, it's not that deep.

[B]

It's not that deep. Like all. I always have this, actually, I say always, all the time. Occasionally people will be, will talk about, you know, they're worried about their kids being on social media. And I recognize that there are some really significant reasons why kids being on social media.

[A]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[B]

But there's also this kind of real black and white thinking where it's like, well, they simply just can't be on it ever then. And I'm like, well, they're gonna grow up in a world where it exists and a bit like, a bit like sex, like the best thing you can do as a parent is to be like, this is a thing that exists and that is very fun, but you probably just like should enter it with the right mind frame and rather than just pretending it's not there and letting them stumble into it when they're 17 years old.

[A]

Right. It's a bit like those parents with dinner or whatever, you know.

[B]

Yeah, it's that kind of thing. Like that sort of. I mean, probably the best thing any parent can do, which is what my parents did to me and my brother about sex, was be like, it's one of our favorite hobbies. Which then made it so much less interesting. Sorry, Jill, if you're listening, it's one.

[A]

Of our favorite hobbies.

[B]

Well, they didn't say that.

[A]

That's incredible.

[B]

But it was one of those things where they were like, yeah, it's a thing. How do you think you exist? It's great fun. And we were both like, ooh, gross. So, like, there was no sort of like, weird mystery about it being some special thing for naughty kids to do. I was like, well, that's. That's what my parents enjoy. So, yeah, like. And I think with social media and with everything else, like, that, the best thing you can probably do is go, I actually love social media, child.

[A]

It's one of my favorite.

[B]

It's one of my favorite hobbies. And. And then the kid will be like, right, well, that probably makes it.

[A]

Well, this is where you.

[B]

90% less interesting.

[A]

So many Gen Z's and Gen A's who are just like, obsessed with taking the piss out of millennials on social media, which is absolutely the right thing.

[B]

And they're going to get a much more healthy relationship with social media because of it, because they'll have seen it. Whereas I think if it's. If it's made into this kind of like, monstrous boogeyman.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Then people are going to be much weirder.

[A]

I would say some of the people who have the most unhealthy relationship social media are, in fact, boomers.

[B]

Yeah. Because they don't know what they're doing with it. They didn't grow up with that.

[A]

If you go into the comments of a famous woman's Instagram and if there is a user and she has a dog as her picture and her name is like, you know, Nancy 1960 or whatever, she was saying the meanest fucking thing you have ever heard in your life. Like, a thing that you wouldn't tell your worst enemy. She will say to Miley Cyrus, you know, like, she'll be like, don't think so, love. Bit fat in those jeans. I was like, Nancy 1960 with your cockapoo as your profile picture. Why are they are the most toxic.

[B]

People on social media, but how are they to know? They didn't. They didn't invent it. They didn't grow up with it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's just been thrust upon them. They don't know what's going on.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And the Best thing to do there is just not go on social media.

[A]

No, they need a license for that kind of thing.

[B]

There should be, like, a basic proficiency test.

[A]

Yes. We need to go soon. I need to go meet my gen Alpha nephew, but I want to talk about the Bond villain.

[B]

You do? Oh, the Bond villain.

[A]

She's an Eva Green extraordinary character I have seen in anything.

[B]

She. I'm sorry to tell you she does not stick around for very long. But I.

[A]

That's so upsetting to me.

[B]

Well, maybe she'll make a return one day.

[A]

So she's the brand manager of Delicatee or Dure, some French makeup brand. And Emily is invited to an influencer event where this brand manager is our director. Rather is present, but in, like, an evil tower, watching, watching all the influencers interact with.

[B]

She's got incredibly upright posture and appears to be wearing armor made of, like, clothing. Armor.

[A]

It is nuts.

[B]

Like Xena, the Warrior Princess.

[A]

Like Xena, Warrior Princess. And then her sort of peon says, if you want to meet her, then I will bring her to you.

[B]

Oh, right. Oh, right, yes.

[A]

And then Emily just sort of stays in this weird little courtyard of content and is just like, making all this content. And then the Bond villain brand manager is like, yes, I like this. Send her to me.

[B]

It's so weird. And so Emily embarrassed. And she's this accent, which could be British, could be San Diego. I think it's like an Eva Green knockoff accent. I think they wanted Eva Green. They couldn't get her. And so they were like, get someone who can pretend to be Ava Green in this thing. And she just stands there very stiffly with her hands on her hips and just says stuff like.

[A]

Well, she's like, emily, you have to make a choice. You have to be an influencer. You could have great power as an influencer.

[B]

You could be our brand manager. Our brand manager for Dure. She's phenomenal.

[A]

It's crazy. But also what's weird about it is that it's such a crazy Bond villain sort of. And you know, in the same way that, like, when you're watching an old Bond movie, it will be like, oh, we're gonna put you in a tank full of sharks, or whatever. But. But then the, you know, villain will say something that's actually, like, rather pressing about, like, the Cold War.

[B]

Yeah. And you'll be like, oh, climate change.

[A]

Yeah, or climate change or. Yeah. Or something. Or whatever. And you're like, how. What a strange mix. It's same year where it's like the evil Bond villain Brand directed director is like, yes, well, the agency model has grown too bloated and expensive, so now we rely on influencers. It's like, oh, yeah, that's actually true. That is a thing for many brands. That is true.

[B]

Many brands cannot afford agency services, and that's what they do.

[A]

I just don't think it's worth it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And often it isn't. So that's all I have to say about that. I thought it was fantastic.

[B]

And I like the fact that she does genuinely feel like there's another movie where she is the same character and her makeup business is simply the front she has for her creating nuclear warheads for.

[A]

I mean, that's more or less the plot of Halle Berry's Catwoman, so.

[B]

Oh, fantastic. I feel like this. I think the thing about Emily in Paris is that it's very cleverly written and it kind of beautifully nods to so many other things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that is why I genuinely think it's going to become a proper, like, cultural touchstone of our time.

[A]

Oh, totally.

[B]

I think it's. I think it's.

[A]

I think it's so here to stay.

[B]

It's not going anywhere.

[A]

No.

[B]

And the thing they'll have to judge, right. Is, like, getting the exact right number of seasons and quitting while they're still ahead rather than letting it kind of sort of devolve into a weird watery flower soup. But I think if they do it.

[A]

Right, oh, I think it's going to be one of those things like the Gilmore Girls or Sex and the City where just, like, long after the generations who originally watched it have passed. It'll be the comfort watch.

[B]

It will be. It'll be definitely a comfort watch for me. And the fact that it came out.

[A]

During the pandemic, like, college students in 20 years are going to be watching us in the door in his room. Yeah.

[B]

And that's just. Yeah, I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I. Look, I was there on the ground floor the first day, maybe the day it came out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I watched it and I was like, I love it. It's perfect.

[A]

It is like a perfectly, like, balanced cocktail. It is like one of those cocktails that is brought out to you that it's, like, entirely pink and has candy floss on the top of it. And then you take a sip and you're like, it's actually delicious hit of gin. And you're like, oh, this is, like, potent as fuck. And actually, I could drink 10 of these and not get sick of it.

[B]

I am so glad.

[A]

I loved it that we've I only want to watch it with you. I don't really want to watch it alone. Maybe I'll watch it on a plane someday.

[B]

It's definitely like, if you're having, like, a sad day and you just want to, like. Yeah, you can watch it multiple times. We will watch it together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That will be our kind of, like, weaning off doing this podcast every week. I'll come around and we'll watch Emily in Paris together.

[A]

That sounds nice.

[B]

It's just. It's very lovely.

[A]

Let's do that.

[B]

It's one for everyone. And look, I'm glad. I'm actually glad that French kiss didn't happen because what if we hated it?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure I was fine.

[B]

And what if we hadn't liked it? This was a universal.

[A]

I know. We'll order it on dvd.

[B]

The Eunice was saying, this is not for you, my friends. For you instead. Is this ketchup. This bottle of ketchup is actually delicious. And you'll want to eat it with everything.

[A]

Yeah. And I do. We do. All right, until next week, everyone.

[B]

Until next week.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

I used to think buying foundation online was impossible. How am I supposed to find my shade when I can't even get it right in store? Then I discovered Il Maquillage. I took their AI powered quiz to find my custom match and wow. This foundation is literally my skin in a bottle. The undertone and coverage are spot on. It's so neutral and weight, I can't even tell I'm wearing makeup. Plus, with Try before youe Buy, you can try your full size at home for 14 days. Take the power match quiz now at ilmaquillage.com quiz I l m a k I a g e.com quiz.