Hairspray (2007) with Ryan Farrell

Summary

Sentimental Garbage Podcast Summary: Episode on Hairspray (2007) with Ryan Farrell

Release Date: December 5, 2024
Host: Caroline O'Donoghue
Guest: Ryan Farrell

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Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of Sentimental Garbage, host Caroline O'Donoghue welcomes Ryan Farrell to discuss the iconic 2007 musical film, Hairspray. The conversation delves deep into the film's cultural impact, its relevance in today’s societal context, and the personal connections both hosts share with the movie.

Hosts' Connection to Hairspray

Caroline and Ryan begin by reflecting on their longstanding friendship, which was cemented in 2008 while working at HMV. Their shared love for Hairspray became a cornerstone of their relationship, marking one of their first hangouts when they watched the film together. Ryan humorously notes, “I just can't help myself from participating in the valiant art of podcasting... because first of all, I love doing it” (00:32), emphasizing his passion for discussing the film despite initial intentions to take a hiatus.

Themes and Relevance of Hairspray

The duo explores the film’s central themes, highlighting its exploration of overcoming adversity and societal integration. Caroline remarks, “Tracy Turnblad’s journey is all about staying true to herself” (25:18), underscoring the film’s message of self-acceptance and advocacy.

Ryan draws parallels with contemporary musicals like Wicked, noting, “It feels like a really relevant musical to be covering around Wicked's release” (05:05), pointing out the shared themes of unity and challenging societal norms.

Character Analysis

Tracy Turnblad

Tracy, portrayed as a plucky teenager in 1960s Baltimore, is the heart of Hairspray. Ryan describes her as “naive, but so hopeful” (19:01), highlighting her role as a unifying force in the narrative. Caroline adds, “Tracy’s main ambition is becoming a dancer on TV, but her priorities shift to uplifting those around her” (23:04), illustrating her character development from personal success to collective empowerment.

Edna Turnblad

Edna, famously played by John Travolta, is celebrated for her heartfelt portrayal. Caroline praises Travolta’s performance, stating, “He really brought Edna to life with such love and sincerity” (15:02). Ryan echoes this sentiment, mentioning, “Every part of [Travolta’s] performance shows he's so happy for this woman” (52:05), emphasizing the character’s transformation and the actor’s ability to convey deep emotion.

Velma Von Tussle

Velma, portrayed by Michelle Pfeiffer, serves as the film’s antagonist. Ryan critiques, “She’s threatened by Tracy’s success,” (54:35) discussing her role in perpetuating the film’s conflict. Caroline notes, “Despite being a strong villain, Velma’s character feels somewhat subdued compared to the stellar cast” (47:18), pointing out nuances in her portrayal.

Musical Elements and Songs

The episode delves into the film’s vibrant soundtrack, with particular praise for standout numbers like “I Know Where I’ve Been” sung by Queen Latifah. Ryan describes the song as “a beautiful, heavy song” (59:24), highlighting its emotional depth and significance in the narrative.

Caroline discusses how the musical numbers enhance the storytelling, stating, “Each song drives the plot forward while deepening our understanding of the characters” (59:53). They also compare Hairspray’s choreography to other dance-centric films, noting its unique take on 1960s dance culture.

Personal Reflections and Queer Readings

Both hosts share personal connections to Hairspray, particularly from a queer perspective. Caroline, identifying as queer, expresses how the film served as a source of joy and solace during challenging times. She reflects, “It was a real source of joy for me and a time where I was dealing with so much personal pain” (24:40), emphasizing the film’s comforting and uplifting impact.

Ryan adds, “Tracy’s naivety and sunniness are infectious,” (62:01) appreciating the character’s unwavering optimism and its resonance with personal experiences of hope and advocacy.

Comparisons to Other Musicals

The conversation bridges Hairspray with other musicals like Wicked, Chicago, and even non-musical films like Pride. Ryan draws thematic connections, stating, “Hairspray is essentially about two teenage girls who are both incredibly ambitious” (26:17), likening it to other narratives of collaboration and unity despite differing backgrounds.

Caroline contrasts Hairspray with contemporary musicals, noting the evolution of the genre and its increased respect following successes like Les Misérables and The Greatest Showman. “Now you've got...a newfound respect for musicals that I think was absent in 2007,” she observes (80:34).

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with both hosts expressing their deep affection for Hairspray. Caroline concludes, “The gift that musicals give is that no matter what situation you're in, it lifts you out of it and brings you somewhere beautiful” (78:47). Ryan echoes this sentiment, affirming, “Nothing does it better than Hairspray” (78:41).

Together, Caroline and Ryan celebrate Hairspray not just as a film, but as a cultural touchstone that embodies hope, unity, and the enduring power of music and dance to transcend societal barriers.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Ryan Farrell [00:32]: “...I have things to promote, shill and sell...”
• Ryan Farrell [02:53]: “...we don't know the most, we feel the most.”
• Caroline [05:24]: “...overcoming adversity and triumphing above all.”
• Ryan Farrell [07:37]: “Hairspray operates from this place of irony...”
• Caroline [15:02]: “...John Travolta's role in Hairspray is the performance of his career.”
• Ryan Farrell [25:27]: “Her own, like, values and things.”
• Caroline [52:07]: “It's the only time that I ever truly believe in the term retail therapy.”
• Ryan Farrell [62:01]: “If you were in a room with that character, you would sort of believe anything is possible.”
• Caroline [78:47]: “My favorite type of musical is one where ordinary people do extraordinary things.”
• Ryan Farrell [81:26]: “...like, Hairspray... anything is possible, that anything could come together.”

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Note: This summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, focusing on the in-depth discussion of Hairspray, its themes, characters, and the personal reflections of the hosts. Advertisements and non-content sections have been omitted as per the request.

Transcript

[Caroline]

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[Ryan Farrell]

Hello everyone. As you can see, I just can't help myself from participating in the valiant art of podcasting at the moment, even though I said I was quitting for a little while, because first of all, I love doing it. And second of all, I have things to promote, shill and sell, the first of which is my collaboration with Warchild, which is Sentimental Garbage's first ever merchandise drop. The first time we've ever done T shirts or totes or sweatshirts. And we're doing it with 100% of the profits to the charity Warts Child. You can get that on everpress.com we've already sold something like 500 units, which is incredible to me, and I really want to keep that going all throughout the Christmas period. If you order before I think December 11th, you can get it before Christmas, but we're likely to keep the campaign going in the new year if it does well enough. So please help me make it do well enough and get some more money to this amazing, amazing charity. The second thing is that I am doing a gig at the Union Chapel on February 6th, so please get your tickets to that. We've got a couple left. I think we're about 75% sold out at the moment and those tickets will go. So yeah, get involved and please enjoy this kind of next suite of episodes that we have running over the Christmas period that are mostly to do with movie musicals. First, because I find movie musicals to be an incredibly Christmassy thing without necessarily being Christmas movies, and second, because I'm kind of continuously inspired by the idea that musicals are about things coming together. And right now the world sort of feels like it's all coming apart and we need sort of reminders on how people who are different can come together to make amazing things. And that's kind of what I want to keep in mind as I go forward with this Christmas season and into 2025, to not lose hope and to believe in the beliefs of musicals as I go. Okay, that's all from me. Enjoy today's episode. Hello and welcome to Sentimental Garbage, the podcast where we talk about the Culture we love, but society sometimes makes us feel ashamed of. My name is Caroline, and you can stop my knife and fork when I see a Christmas ham. And joining me is. Get that chubby communist girl off the show. It's Ryan Farrell.

[Caroline]

Hey. Hi. Link, your pork is ready.

[Ryan Farrell]

Link, your pork is ready. Oh, my God. I can't believe it's taken me like, fucking 200 episodes for number one to get you on number two to cover hairspray.

[Caroline]

I know, right?

[Ryan Farrell]

It's a foundational garment.

[Caroline]

It just feels like a very big day.

[Ryan Farrell]

Oh, great. It's a big day because Silva's crying.

[Caroline]

Hairspray means a lot to her, too.

[Ryan Farrell]

It does, yeah.

[Caroline]

Yeah. I guess this movie has always just been such a huge part of our friendship. We met back in 2008, and I think from the first time you ever came around to my house, we watched Hairspray. And, I mean, we worked upstairs in hmv where it was exclusively the DVD section, bar some specialist music genres.

[Ryan Farrell]

Well, it was soundtracks, right?

[Caroline]

Yeah. So basically, we tormented everybody we worked with with Hairspray in the Best Little Whorehouse in Texas.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. Like, it's funny to be doing this around Christmas and with you because, like, we met as Christmas temps in HMV in 2008. And, like, I remember us. This being one of the soundtracks we pulled out when we were on the floor together and just, like, going around, like, straightening up the DVD cases after work, getting ready to close the shop, like, listening to youo Can't Stop the Beat and listening to all these, like, songs. And then finally you being like. I think one of our first hangouts out of work was like, come over to my house and we'll actually watch it. And that was like. That was like, one of our big first hangouts, I think, right?

[Caroline]

Yeah, absolutely. It's funny that you say that now that, you know, a huge part of, you know, us first listening to Hespring the soundtrack together was when we met around Christmas. And you saying that. I've just realized that I've somehow, you know, we, you know, compartmentalized Hairspray into a Christmas movie in my life. So much so that when I go home to Ireland for Christmas, it's become a tradition that me and my little sister watch Hairspray every year. And I guess that's. That's me sort of carrying on something that's always been important to us and sharing that outwards with somebody else that I love.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, it's. It's what makes it so special. Do you think, like, there aren't that many musicals that were made during this period. And, you know, this feels like a really. I know it might not seem it on the surface, but it feels like a really relevant musical to be covering around Wicked's release. Because it has a lot in common with Wicked, I feel. Thematically, you know.

[Caroline]

Absolutely. I mean, the very obvious one is, you know, overcoming adversity.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And, you know, triumphing above all. But I think it's really interesting with Hespey because, you know, I feel like if it was released today, it would have had so much more impact. But I think when it was released in 2007, musicals were kind of owned by the Disney factory. So you had High School Musical, which by default. I think a lot of people looked at Hairspray when it came out and said, this is a Zac Efrontine movie. But it deals with really, really heavy themes. I mean, even in the opening number, you know, it's showing, you know, the local bum. Or there's a streaker in the.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, yeah. There's a flasher who lives next door.

[Caroline]

It makes it very clear that this is not a children's movie. It might be big and colorful, but I think that that's more of a nod to musicals of the 50s and 60s rather than, this is a movie that's bright and colorful for children.

[Ryan Farrell]

Because there's, like, layers of irony going on within Hairspray, I think that I think people often miss. And it's like, I often. To me, it's kind of a litmus test when I meet someone new. And for some reason, Hairspray comes up. And, like, most people haven't seen it, but the people who have seen it, they do have an. Either they're obsessed with it, they get it, they understand why. It's, like, hilarious and moving or whatever. Or they're just like, oh, is that that weird musical where John Travolta is in drag for some reason? And I'm like, how dare you speak of Edna Turnblad in that way? Because it's like. It's like kind of from the jump. It operates from this place of, like, irony. Of, like, it's based on the John Waters movie Hairspray. And, like, John Waters is, like, a sort of aesthetic that I respect. But most of the films, like, the vast majority of the films, I find pretty hard to watch because they're like. They're made to be subversive. They're made to be, like, in an 80s midnight screening in some mad theater. They're kind of, like, not really meant for you to Watch on DVD at Home alone or on streaming at Home Alone.

[Caroline]

Yeah, I mean, they're decidedly quite ugly.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, they're ugly, bright, garish movies. They're people who have, like, lipstick on their teeth. And like, he's very much like a person who's interested in freaks. And like, he's in the first number, like Good Morning, Baltimore when Tracy Turnblight gets up and goes to school. And like Good Morning, Baltimore as an opening number. It's such a kind of cliche of what a musical is supposed to do. It's like the kind of the I'm Here song or the, like the Beauty and the Beast. This is my small provincial town song where it's like this. This is where we are. Here's the world. We're going to introduce you to all the characters you're gonna meet. And this is the vibe. And here's how people talk to each other. And like, for Tracy, it's like I'm this like, little like. Like I'm this like, self professed little fat girl who's kind of like, just loves dancing. And people sort of think I'm sort of weird for doing that. People think my hair is weird. People think I'm weird. But, like, I'm obsessed with everyone. I love everything. I love the rats who, like, dance around my feet. I love the flasher who lives next door. I love riding the garbage truck on the way to school. And she, like, immediately pitches herself of being like, yeah, I'm from this, like, weird part of Baltimore where everyone's weird and I'm weird to them. But, like, I love it here. And like, hooray. It's just so, like, hooray.

[Caroline]

Absolutely. I mean, that's something that, you know, every time it opens up again, it always. It pulls me in straight away. Because, you know, what you're seeing is, as you said, Belle in Beauty and the Beast. When she's singing in her opening umbrella. It's very much shading this little town that looks perfectly nice. But Tracy Dunblad immediately knows and recognizes the imperfections with Baltimore and makes it clear that she's going to become something in spite of this town, but she's also going to bring the town with her. And I think that's really interesting for me because, you know, as a queer person, I grew up in a town where I thought something else lies outside of this for me. But Tracy, in pursuit of her dreams and whatever they are, plans on bringing Baltimore with her and making that part of her success. And I just think that's really beautiful. It's a really nice message to open the movie on. Yeah.

[Ryan Farrell]

And like, even though it is steeped in all this kind of like sort of irony and sarcasm, there's still just like. It's not a. Not sarcasm, I don't know. But there is a kind of a darkness to it that. Where it opens up right away. Because like when you're doing the first song in a musical, there has to be like a sense of this is the tone kind of thing. Like yes, it's a 60s musical. Yes, it's bright. But there's kind of an edginess to it as well that you see throughout it. But like, I'm probably going too far too soon. Like, tell me what the plot of Hairspray is.

[Caroline]

I mean, the plot, essentially how it begins is you have Tracy Turnblad who is a plucky teenager in 1960s Baltimore who lives, breathes and shits the Courtney Collins show, which is essentially a really interesting dance show that seems to feature all local celebrities who are also attendees of her high school.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. And is that a thing do that exists that you would just like be a part time student and full time dance celebrity in your local town?

[Caroline]

Yeah, I mean it's, it's bizarre because she, she really idolizes them in a sort of, you know, movie star kind of way. But you know, she is in English class with some of them. You know, she could probably, you know, have a chat with them quite easy. But you know, she has them up on this pedestal and she has dreams of being the next dancer in the Corny Collins show.

[Ryan Farrell]

And tell me, why is there an opening on the Corny Collins Show?

[Caroline]

Well, as we mentioned, this isn't a kids movie because one of the dancers has to take a nine month break and it's heavily insinuated that she is going through a teenage pregnancy.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

In 1960s Baltimore.

[Ryan Farrell]

It's so good. But like the way they sort of like set up the Corny Collins show is so again, like, I think, you know, you do sort of have to get the sense of humor and the intentionality that the musical is working within because it's like again, it's all bright. You've got Zac Efron, you've got Britney Snow. Who are these big teen stars? You got James Martin Marsden, who plays Courtney Collins and is like the host of the show. And then they're doing the Meet the Nicest Kids in Town and you're like, wow, like it's like any 60s movie. It's like that thing you do or something. It's something that's. Or like La Bamba. It's very much hearkening to a kind of like a boomer 60s nostalgia that might not have ever existed, but was there in the media.

[Caroline]

It's very squeaky clean.

[Ryan Farrell]

It's very squeaky clean. But it's also dealing with like the insane, like racism and hypocrisy of media of the 60s and media now, you know.

[Caroline]

Yeah, absolutely. But I mean, it was a time when, you know, racial segregation was in law.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

So there's a whole other cast of the Corny Collins show and there's also another host, Mortarmouth Maybell, played by Queen Latifah. And immediately, you know that like the talent that they have within this cast is so incredible.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. And so heightened on every level.

[Caroline]

Absolutely. And Tracy, you know, consistently through the movie, you know, recognizes that talent and absolutely idolizes the cast on the Friday show and dreams of the cast being integrated. But then you've got Michelle Pfeiffer, who is played absolutely excellently. And did you know that at this time when Michelle Pfeiffer was cast, she'd taken a five year career break, so she hadn't been in anything for five years and then played back to back villain roles in the same year in Hairspray and Stardust.

[Ryan Farrell]

Oh, shit. Stardust. Oh, my God.

[Caroline]

That was a really, really big year for Michelle Pfeiffer, especially when she'd only really done one big villain role before, which was iconically Catwoman. But she was a huge leading lady of the 90s and 80s. And then just absolutely smashed it with this one.

[Ryan Farrell]

What's the name of her character again.

[Caroline]

In Velma Von Tassel?

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, Velma Von Tassel.

[Caroline]

And yeah, Miss Baltimore Krabs.

[Ryan Farrell]

Miss Baltimore Krabs. And so, okay, so there's, there's a, like opening on the Courtney Collins show because of this teen pregnancy. And then like, Tracy wants to go and audition and it's like immediately a fight because, like, her mother, Edna Turnblad, who is a agoraphobic laundry lady played.

[Caroline]

By John Travolta in the performance of a career.

[Ryan Farrell]

And that like, John Travolta as Edna Turnblad is like the heart and soul of this movie. Like every time that John Travolta shows up in drag as this woman who like, runs a laundry from her apartment and her husband is Christopher Walken and her daughter is Tracey Turnblad, like, she's just so. I just cry. I just like, she's so funny. But there's Just so much heart in it. Why do you think, like, it works as well as it does?

[Caroline]

I really think it's because John Travolta played the character with such love. There was no. I mean, obviously, since Hairspray was adapted for the stage, there's always been a male actor impersonating a woman in the role of Edna. But I think what's been consistent, because I've seen Hairspray in the West End as well, is to play Edna, you have to really catch her essence. And Edna is funny. Not by, you know, her stature, how she looks, books. It's because she's quirky and she has all these Ednasms. And John Travolta just really got that. Like, I'm being so unironic when I say it's the performance of his career. Like, I feel like people should be speaking about John Travolta's role in Hairspray the same way they do about his comeback in Pulp Fiction, because it's incredible. Like, there's so much love, so much light, and you can see that he's just really, really enjoying the role. Like, under all those prosthetics, his eyes just absolutely light up. And we've cried in the 16 years of our friendship more times over John Travolta's career, specifically his role as Edna Turnblood, than we have about things that have happened to us. I mean, I'm sure at some point.

[Ryan Farrell]

Puts our priorities in the stark perspective.

[Caroline]

But, I mean, I'm sure we'll get to his duet with Christopher Walken. But it's just so unbelievable. Beautiful. And it's shy, but it's bold, and it's just really nice. I'm really worried that I'm gonna start tearing up early on.

[Ryan Farrell]

I know, I know. Yeah. But, like, the voice is so, like, it's weird because, you know, it puts me in mind of, like, a role that does similar isms, but it completely failed to me, which is when Tom Hanks was in the Elvis movie.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Ryan Farrell]

Playing Colonel Parker, dripping in prosthetics with a weird little voice on. And I found that completely repellent. I was like, this is so, so bad. It's so embarrassing. Like, it's kind of. Kind of ruined the whole movie for me, really. Even though there's some great bits in that movie. And then you compare that, like, to John Travolta also dripping in prosthetics, also with this weird little voice that's not quite Baltimore and not quite a human woman, but it just kind of is. Edna Turnblad. This thing of link, your pork is ready. And like, oh, Tracy, I don't want to go with all the hoi p loy drinking, grumming Cokes. It's like Cher through a helium balloon, like, sort of visiting Baltimore for a weekend. Like, it's crazy. It's a crazy voice.

[Caroline]

Yeah. I mean, I've had to think about this, and I think that this has to be something said for the casting in this is very intentional. I mean, the main cast consists largely of the adult cast, who are all either Academy Award nominees or winners. But also, most of the main cast have already cut their teeth in a musical. And I think that, you know, to execute a role as complex as in a Turnblad, but to be a male impersonating a female in that role, you have to be really confident in, you know, taking that role within the context of a musical. And obviously, John Travolta's other big musical role is Grease, which is so iconic, but partly because he was just the perfect Danny and just moved through that movie so effortlessly from, you know, the dialogue scenes to the musical scenes, and was able to put himself into that space as Edna Turnblad. And because he already had the musical part down, was really able to focus in on. On what makes her special, and he really did.

[Ryan Farrell]

What do you think makes her special?

[Caroline]

I mean, I think it's the Turnblads as a whole, as a family. They're just really good people. They're really content with what they have. They want bigger. But if that's not what happens, then that's okay, too.

[Ryan Farrell]

That is so is. Yeah. Yeah. And there's the whole. There's this whole thing where. So Tracy desperately wants to audition, and you have to sort of cut school in order to audition. And, like, what Tracy doesn't know is that, like, the world is really unfair and not nice to girls who look like her. And that especially this show is run by sadists who are played by Michelle Pfeiffer, and they're not. And they're gonna be cruel to her. And, like, her mom knows that, and, like, she sort of, like, bans her. She, like, is the bad guy with Tracy, says, you can't go down there. And then when Christopher Walken, who plays Wilbur, says, like, oh, why not, like, let her go down there. Let her try or whatever. And you just see Edna, played by John Travolta, just the face just breaking. Being like, they're gonna be mean to her. And, like, that. There's something, like, so beautiful about that family unit right it works as a unit because it's like they have made this, like, precious, gorgeous kid because they have, like, shielded her from, like, the cruelty of the world. And it means that you get this Tracy character who's, like, so naive, but she's so hopeful. She doesn't understand why, like, black kids and white kids can't dance. She doesn't understand why she shouldn't be with somebody like Link, who's gorgeous and, you know, on a different social strata to her. And, like, it just makes her so irrepressible and so instantly lovable to everyone who meets her.

[Caroline]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the thing is, you know, not to get too deep into the term blood lore, but Edna has spent 11 years living with agoraphobia. So presumably in the movies, Tracy's, what, like, 16?

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

She spent most of her life only knowing her mother indoors.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. Wearing, like, a house coat, ironing other people's clothes.

[Caroline]

Sounds pretty traumatic, but they still make a really lovely life out of it where they all have this really positive worldview. But there's Edna still, you know, running her business, doing her bits, making sure that everybody she loves is taken care of, but just dealing with her own personal demons. Like, I want to know what happened to Edna, to what happened 11 years ago. Yeah, like, I mean, welcome to the 60s. She was ready to get out there, you know, and that had been building for a long time. And there's just. I just. I find them as a family very moving.

[Ryan Farrell]

I know whenever they're together all in a scene, it just. It's instant tears for me. I don't even understand why. Because it's such a silly and ironic movie in so many ways, and it sort of is kind of cocking its eyebrow to the audience and sort of showing you, like, we're making fun of a certain kind of 60s movie. And also interrogating the values of the 60s and also sort of critiquing what's happening now. But also at the center of it, there's just so much hopefulness and loveliness and real people who I really believe in.

[Caroline]

Absolutely. And, I mean, in what other world would you cast, not even in a romantic context, but cast John Travolta and Christopher Walken side by side and think that makes sense. But I've genuinely.

[Ryan Farrell]

They're husband and wife.

[Caroline]

I've never believed in a greater love than Head and Wilbur. And, like, we. We really have cried a lot of tears over your. Timeless. To me, like, it's. It's just such a beautiful song. And any Song where one turnblad is singing to another. Whether it's welcome to the 60s or your timeless. To me there's just. There's this real sense of. You can really feel how they back each other. Like, welcome to the 60s. You know, there's a line that Tracey says. She says, I know something's in you that you want to set free. Yeah, she wants to help her mum. She wants to get her there, you know, welcome to the 60s. Now it's all happening.

[Ryan Farrell]

I just love that about Tracy. She just wants to take everybody along with her. It's so lovely.

[Caroline]

I mean, she does, doesn't she? I mean, that's the thing that we find throughout the movie, you know, when we're introduced to Tracey. Her main goal, her main ambition is, you know, becoming a dancer in the Corny Collins show. And that's effectively her making it and showing the world, you know, what Baltimore can do. But her priorities shift throughout the movie, and as they shift, it becomes about lifting the other people around her. Whether it's, you know, bringing her mother out and, you know, letting her shine in the world, or when she meets little Inez Stubbs and wants to get her one the Corny Collins show and integrate the show. And then it becomes a much different, deeper and. And serious movie, but still has that heart and love and light and. And laughter. And I think that's why, like, there's. There's something about the. The Tracy character that I think is. Is very, very queer coded or. Or, you know, something where, you know, there's just a real relatability in her as a character for me, a queer person. And, you know, I think, you know, that's something where, you know, for so many years, when we watch this movie together, like a lot of the first years of our friendship, I was closeted and this was just like a real source of joy for me and a time where I was dealing with so much personal pain. It's just. Yeah, it's. It's one that I can, you know, console myself with this movie and I can reward myself with this movie. And, you know, it's always there when I need it and there's never a wrong time to sit with it.

[Ryan Farrell]

Why do you think it is a thing that you were drawn to when you were in that specific kind of pain? Is it that, like. It's like everyone loves Tracy no matter what, or is it something else?

[Caroline]

I think that might be a part of it, but I think overall it's, you know, seeing how very real world situations are dealt With. With empathy. And knowing that, you know, Tracy as a character in her. Her whole arc is that, you know, above all, if she stays true to herself.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

You know, then that's enough.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, yeah. Her own, like, values and things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

And also, you know, she. She gets link in the end and that's. That's pretty horny.

[Ryan Farrell]

That's pretty horny. Pretty horny stuff. She gets the long, flat hair to show that she's part of the modern world. Let's keep going with the plot because she. What does she do? She.

[Caroline]

So she auditions for Corny Collins.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. And she's immediately thrown out in her.

[Caroline]

Arse by Velma Von Tussle.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yes.

[Caroline]

In Miss Baltimore Crabs, which is the ultimate villain song.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And I mean, I fully believe that when it comes to a movie musical, the villain is ultimately, no matter how heinous or evil their acts, redeemable if they have a truly incredible banger of a signature song.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The best song has to be the villain song. Otherwise, what are you doing with the musical?

[Caroline]

I mean, you've got, like, Be Prepared. You've got Scar literally killed the Lion King.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, yeah. He's like, there are hyenas goose stepping and he's singing Be Prepared for the coup of a century.

[Caroline]

Right.

[Ryan Farrell]

Like, we're teaching children the word coup in 1996 or whatever it was. And it's just. It's such a banger. And, like Ursula's Poor Unfortunate Souls, which is his sonically very close to.

[Caroline]

Sounds very alike. They're very similar songs. And. Yeah. So Miss Baltimore Crabs is essentially a hark back to Vilma von Tussel's days as a pageant queen and how she basically rose through the ranks by essentially fucking her way to the top. Very unashamedly love that. Girls, let's go, boys. Rumba. Oh, my God. I mean, incredible. Like, that woman was at home for five years and then just fucking rocked up on set with that.

[Ryan Farrell]

Oh, my. That's so weird to think of Michelle I. For just going for a jog in.

[Caroline]

The morning and sat at home scratching her hoop for five years waiting for the call from Adam Shankman. And she was ready.

[Ryan Farrell]

She was ready.

[Caroline]

Some might say she's been ready since Greece 2.

[Ryan Farrell]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

[Caroline]

You did an episode on Greece 2, didn't you?

[Ryan Farrell]

I did. With Seamus O'Reilly.

[Caroline]

Fantastic.

[Ryan Farrell]

Fantastic stuff.

[Caroline]

As the gays will tell you, it's better than the original.

[Ryan Farrell]

Well, I actually don't agree, but I.

[Caroline]

Neither would Edna Turnblad.

[Ryan Farrell]

But I do think. Let's do it for our country. Fucking rocks.

[Caroline]

Incredible. Oh, that's quite fun, isn't it?

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, yeah. When they're. When they're shagging in the bunker.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And you've got the stars of Greece. And Greece too, in Hesper. Yes, very fun.

[Ryan Farrell]

That is fun. I hope they talked about that.

[Caroline]

But anyway, so we. She auditions.

[Ryan Farrell]

She gets thrown out of the auditions.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Goes back to school.

[Ryan Farrell]

And then also it's important to say that, like, why. What makes Michelle Pfeiffer a great villain on every level is that she's the studio manager, so she is able. And she has a daughter called Amber, who is the kind of wannabe star of the Courtney Collins show, even though she can't even dance and she's a little bitch. And actually, this is kind of where the musical for me is very similar to Wicked. And if you're, like, on a Wicked comedown at the moment from seeing it three times in the cinema, and you need something to sort of tide you over until November. Hairspray is a very good thing to get into because it is essentially about two teenage girls who are both incredibly ambitious. One of them sort of sits at the left hand of power and therefore is never going to change her, like, incredibly sort of racist, prejudicial world because she's benefiting from the system that she lives in. And the other one is not accepted by society for reasons that are like, to do with her appearance. But because of that, because she's not accepted, she learns to sort of relate to another group of people who are also oppressed. And that's like, the kind of similarities, really. And it actually also made me think a lot of, like, thinking of Wicked and. And this. And also in a weird kind of it's not a musical, but like the movie Pride and about how there are three movies that are about, like, you don't have to have everything in common with the people who you unite with in order to find common ground and to find activism with them. And, like, something that Tash said when she was on the podcast last week was that the thing that she loved, one of the things she loves about musical theater is the fact that, like, it is the most collaborative of all mediums, because if everybody isn't doing their job, amazingly, like, if someone doesn't flick a light switch on time or a costume doesn't tear away in time, like, the fucking whole show is fucked. And so it relies on people who have nothing, not nothing in common, but very little in common. You know, professions at all stages of sort of from the most hands on electrical jobs to like, people who are just up there singing and dancing to find cohesion. And then like, if you think like, and then so much of what these musicals are about are just about like, we don't have to have everything in common to fight for one another's right to exist. And I do think something has happened in the breakdown of like, the way that social media has become the now prominent form of communication. We sort of fooled. We tricked ourselves into thinking a few years ago and it's still going on that like, like, if you, unless you, unless you either know everything already or are of a group that, that is the only, you know, there was like, I remember during MeToo, sorry, this is a bit of a rant, but like, during MeToo, we, we got it into our head that like, and this is true, that like, men can never understand the female experience. Like, CIS men can never understand the female experience and what it is to, you know, be at the heel of the patriarchy. Right. And I think by really forcing the sort of rhetoric of like, you'll never know what it's like, you'll never know what it's like, we ended up losing people to a movement who has now radicalized them. And I'm not saying that we're responsible, like women are responsible for the radicalization men. I just think we were sold a bad set of lies by social media that said to us, like, only people who are of this specific background are able to understand this specific problem. And it alienated people from each other. And we need to get back to the musicals theory of like, political and social engagement, of being like, you can just have one thing in common with the person who's being oppressed, but you're both being oppressed and you need to get together on that, you know.

[Caroline]

Wow. Yeah, absolutely.

[Ryan Farrell]

Do you think I don't know. I'm talking about Iris? I don't know.

[Caroline]

No, I don't think so. I mean, yeah, it's. At the end of the day, what we share as people is struggle. And if you completely break it down to its most basic form, I think that musicals do that really well because you need to move the story along quite quickly. It's like, here's the problem. And now we need to sort of dance and sing our way through it.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, yeah. And we need to get all the people from all of the musical to get together to sing about it. Like, what is one day more about that of like, here's everyone from the musical and they're all in the revolution.

[Caroline]

We have to have our reprise where, like, the cast is all brought together and there's some sense of, like, togetherness.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

Which in this case is you can't stop the beat. Which I think we can both agree that if that song had another 10 minutes to it, it still wouldn't be enough.

[Ryan Farrell]

I know. It's already, like, fucking 15 minutes long and it should be longer. It's so good.

[Caroline]

Yeah, absolutely. But it's interesting. It's such a big cast, such a big ensemble cast, and as we said, you know, they've had their experience across the board in musicals, but also a lot of very acclaimed Academy Award stars. Zac Efron was so new to the industry in this role, but was like a real young hot thing. I think what was always really interesting about Zac Efron was this was actually. Despite having been in High School Musical, this was his first singing role.

[Ryan Farrell]

Oh, my God. Was there no singing in High School Musical?

[Caroline]

He sung the first four lines in Breaking Free.

[Ryan Farrell]

Have you seen High School Musical?

[Caroline]

Yeah, loads, girl. Okay.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, I just. Because we've never watched it together, I assume you haven't seen it.

[Caroline]

I'm a. I'm a gay millennial who has his own private time. But, yeah, so basically the story was that Zac Efron, they'd already created the soundtrack for High School Musical before they cast him. They loved his look, they loved his vibe, but they thought that he just sang too low a register. So they brought in an actor by the name of Drew Seeley to record the vocals for the first High School Musical soundtrack, and he actually went on tour with the cast to perform. So that freed up time for Zac.

[Ryan Farrell]

Efron High School Musical tour as a musical.

[Caroline]

Yeah, absolutely. I don't know where I got all this knowledge from. I think that it's just from my reserve days of, you know, being on Perez Hilton or whatever I was doing in 2007. But, yeah, so he never actually sung. He went on to sing in the rest of the High School Musical franchise, however many of them there was. And they. They sort of created the songs to. To match his voice. But, yeah, they wanted to get a tenor because the music was. Yeah, it was much higher register for his voice type. Kind of interesting.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, Zac Efron lore.

[Caroline]

But, yeah, Zac Efron, I actually think, come come to speak of Wicked, I always think that there's a lot of similarities between the character of Link and Fiyero in the sense that they start off as these sort of Lothario bad.

[Ryan Farrell]

Boys, sort of airhead Lothario.

[Caroline]

Yeah, like combing their hair at the side. And then before you know it, he's absolutely goo goo gaga for Tracy and he's, you know, demolishing half eaten Baby Ruths that she stashed under her pillow.

[Ryan Farrell]

So disgusting.

[Caroline]

It's a pretty grim scene. But, yeah, I mean, I think so in terms of how the story sort of progressed, because I know that we sort of sidetracked there a bit, but Tracy, following her botched audition for the Corny Collins show, goes back to class, finds herself in detention because she skipped class to do the thing that loads of people from her class were already doing.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, the logic doesn't totally hold up there.

[Caroline]

It never made sense to me.

[Ryan Farrell]

Best we leave that to one side.

[Caroline]

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I'm calling Fat Phobia on that one. But essentially she goes to detention and that is where she meets seemingly the entire Friday cast of the Corny Collins show, which has never explained why all of the cast are in detention all the time.

[Ryan Farrell]

All the time? Yeah. Every kid who. Yeah, every black kid in that school is in detention all the time. And no one explains why. I think the implication is that because the school is mostly white, they're sort of always quote, unquote in trouble and they're just sort of being warehoused in detention. But they're having a nice time in there. They're dancing a lot.

[Caroline]

Yeah, a lot of dancing. There doesn't seem to be a teacher in that detention, which seems like a lot more fun than regular class. But, yeah, so Tracy comes in like fucking bull in a china shop, being gamey out.

[Ryan Farrell]

She's so gamey in detention.

[Caroline]

Yeah, she's just shaking. Shaking our hips and scalping our arse for. For seaweed. Who's. Who's essentially the link on the. On the. The Friday show on Corny Collins. And it's a very strange scene because everybody's very taken in by how incredible a dancer Tracy is, but we never really see any evidence of that. I actually think that she looks more like one of those, like, dashboard Hula girls.

[Ryan Farrell]

I know. Yeah, it's weird. It's strange because this is a case where the director was the choreographer, much like Chicago, but the way the dancing is shot. And I think maybe it's to do with the style of dancing that they're dealing with, which is that 60s dancing that I think was popularized because it was like part of a wider teen fan culture. And it was always like doing the twist or doing the mashed potato, where it's like, the whole thing is that these moves are simple, that they're not ordinary, that anybody can do them. And so even though it's so joyful to see, it's not like a spectacle in the way you would see a musical, a big number. And so you get a lot of people who are being shot from the waist up. It's a very odd.

[Caroline]

It certainly is, because most sort of musical or dance movies from the 2000s that we were treated to were very. About the choreography. So when you think about Save the Last Dance or Honey Step Up. Yeah, exactly. It was very much about the moves. Whereas I can't see any reason why they seen any particular talent in Tracy, except for they like the cut of her jit.

[Ryan Farrell]

And all the dancers on the Courtney Collins show are pretty much as good as each other. Like, no one's. Like, no one's amazing, really. Everyone's just like. Again, these are dance moves that, like, aren't really there to evidence how amazing someone is technically. They're just fun to do.

[Caroline]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ryan Farrell]

It's like they're collecting these dance moves like stickers or something. It's like. You know what I mean? I don't know. Maybe I have a misunderstanding of 60s dance culture. I'm not sure.

[Caroline]

Well, I think the only person that stands out throughout the whole movie has been any different in their movements, and rightly so, is little Ina Stubbs. Everybody else dances completely in formation throughout.

[Ryan Farrell]

So Tracy meets Inez and Seaweed, who are the two kids of May Belle who runs the Friday Show. And they all just immediately become friends because, like, as we've said before, people just like Tracy.

[Caroline]

Absolutely.

[Ryan Farrell]

People just like her. She's nice.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And I mean, I really have to. Because I'm gonna say at some point, while we're talking, Seaweed might be the hottest person I've ever seen in my life. And I think a large portion of his hotness has to be credited to the costume department. Because his hotness is only accentuated by a very rich array of knitted shirts.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

I mean, every single time it cuts to Seaweed, he is looking impeccable.

[Ryan Farrell]

And not everybody can get away with a knitted shirt. Not every man can do it.

[Caroline]

I imagine somewhere in Baltimore as well. It would be very balmy.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. Gorgeous knitted shirt. So then. Okay, so then what happens is that they have, like, some Corny Collins event, and then we get another kind of. It's interesting when you. We get, like, Tracy's World, because Tracy is just, like, a happy, go lucky kid who's like, sees everybody the same. And then we are reminded again that we're living in a. In a sort of pre civil rights Baltimore. They go on like a dance. Yeah. Courtney Collins is having some kind of dance event and that is being televised. The kids are segregated. The black kids are on one side, the white kids are on the other. And Tracy tries to talk to Seaweed through the ropes.

[Caroline]

The ropes.

[Ryan Farrell]

I know, the rope is so sad. And it's like, oh, that rope was a real thing within my parents lifetime.

[Caroline]

And there's no mention of it. It's just.

[Ryan Farrell]

No one says this dumb rope. Everyone's just like, oh, the rope. You know, it's very. It's very jarring again and again. It's one of those things of. What makes like, Hairspray so kind of jarringly effective is that it's this candy colored 60s musical that has a rope separating black and white kids. Like, it's like. It really does hit you that. That scene, you know. Anyway, she's. She tries to talk to Seaweed through the rope. And he's a bit like, you're gonna get in trouble for talking to me. And then she's like, well, no, fuck that. Let's just do our little dance that we did in detention. He's like, how about you do the dance and I stay over here? Because he's just, you know, trying to mind himself. And then, which is, I find quite sweet actually, is like, you know, Tracy asks his permission to dance it, which is like, again, one of those kind of.

[Caroline]

It's your moves, they're your moves.

[Ryan Farrell]

He's like, yeah, you can borrow them for a while, you know. And which, you know, is like, again, because it's a 60s musical and this is an era that was known for white artists doing black things and then popularizing them, and then the original artists not getting any, you know, credit or money or anything. It feels quite. It's very intentional that like, you know, Tracy asks permission and then she gets all this attention for doing this dance. And then she gets on the show and then immediately her next set of priorities is to get Seaweed and Inez on the show with her, you know, and like, it's just like. Yes. Is it. Is it sort of cheesy and happy, clappy and bright and full of like 60s pop music? Yes. But is like, it also kind of an amazing thing? Like kind of a lovely thing to have just a character be like, no, I'm who? Whatever the demographic, it is, whatever the racial divide is for someone to be like, no, I'm taking everyone with me. I'm taking my friends with me. It's like, it's just lovely.

[Caroline]

Very moving.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And of course she, she absolutely smashes it when she, when she pulls out Seaweed's moves. Everybody is absolutely eating it up in the audience and at home. And at that point you then see a cutaway where her best friend Penny, played by Amanda Bynes. We haven't met. Amanda Bynes. Oh, my God. Like, I just want. I really want Aloha Sands for Amanda Bynes. If that's what she wants.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. I mostly I want her to get well and live on a ranch.

[Caroline]

She's just such a talent, isn't she?

[Ryan Farrell]

I mean, sorry for people who don't know, remind. I don't know who could possibly know, but remind the world who Amanda Bynes is.

[Caroline]

Amanda Bynes is essentially like 90s and 2000s Nickelodeon royalty, isn't she? She was a one woman Keenan and Kell. She was A1 woman SNL. I still watch the Amanda show to this day, which was a sketch show headed by her and the guys that were in Drake and Josh. And it really holds up. It's like Sabrina the Teenage Witch where a lot of the jokes are actually quite, you know, geared towards adults. So you can still watch it as an adult and enjoy and appreciate it for how funny it is.

[Ryan Farrell]

Those sketches were just good, man. They were great. They're like the girls room where it was just like girls in the bathroom. Girls room. I like eggs.

[Caroline]

I still say I like eggs all the time.

[Ryan Farrell]

I like eggs. Walked, so I love lamb could run.

[Caroline]

Oh, my God, so true. But nobody's ready to have that conversation.

[Ryan Farrell]

Nobody's ready to have that conversation. And like, I remember Moody's Point where it was like a parody of Dawson's Creek.

[Caroline]

Did you know that her love interest in that was Taryn Killen? I think I'm pronouncing his name correctly, but he was in SNL and he's married to like Robin from How I Met yout Mother.

[Ryan Farrell]

Oh, my God.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Ryan Farrell]

Cobie smoldered.

[Caroline]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But yeah, so Amanda Bynes, I mean, she. The sketches and the writing were fantastic, but it was all carried by her.

[Ryan Farrell]

And she would come out like a proper host every episode and be like, oh, Amanda, this is the. And it's like, we haven't managed that for an adult woman yet, but we did it for 14 year old Amanda Bynes. That's crazy.

[Caroline]

Absolutely. And I mean, she had such an amazing career. I mean, she Went on to. I don't know if it was ever big in the uk, but I know that I had a real moment in Ireland to show how I like about.

[Ryan Farrell]

You What I like about you yeah, yeah, yeah What I like about you that was always an rt, too, of an afternoon.

[Caroline]

Yeah, it was. It was like a real after school thing. And that was like her mature moment. And then she carried that so well and then made the transition to the big screen with, like, Rose in Easy. She was in she's the Man.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

What a Girl Wants, what a Girl Wants. All, like staples for 2,000 girl sleepovers. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryan Farrell]

See that one with Frankie Muniz?

[Caroline]

Yeah. Oh, Big Fat Liar.

[Ryan Farrell]

Big Fat Liar.

[Caroline]

I don't know anything about that movie except they turned Paul Giamatti blue. It was just the trailer, wasn't it? That was all the trailer was.

[Ryan Farrell]

You're so right. Him being blue.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Amanda Bynes in sunglasses and Paul Giamatti being blue.

[Ryan Farrell]

We'll never find that one. Yeah, we will never find that one.

[Caroline]

But, yeah. So, I mean, she was just absolutely incredible in this. So she. She. She plays the best friend character, Penny Pingleton, and her mother's played by Alison Janney, which, again, we haven't mentioned Alison Janney, but it says a lot about the strength of the cast that somebody as incredible a force as Alison Janney is. I feel so disrespectful for saying it, but somewhat of a forgettable character.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. I mean, there's not a lot of her. But it's crazy how, like, she is the best thing in most things she's in. And she's sort of the weaker part of this movie.

[Caroline]

Like, it's crazy, especially because Penny's mother is like this. She's like a doomsday religious extremist, and she should be this big, loud, camp character, which she is. And that would be more accentuated if it wasn't in Hairspray. Hairspray.

[Ryan Farrell]

If everyone wasn't so massively big already. Like, yeah, it's so weird. She's a doomsday Christian fundamentalist, but it feels like too quiet a role or something, like, for this crazy movie.

[Caroline]

Yeah, absolutely. Like, I genuinely. I can't remember anything that she does in the movie, apart from tell Tracy not to eat her canned tuna when she locks her in the basement with all her doomsday supplies or when she ties Penny to the bed.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

But we love Alison Janney.

[Ryan Farrell]

But we love Alison Janney. Of course. I want to talk more about how Tracey gets on the show. She's an immediate sensation. Her dad, who runs a joke shop, starts selling, like, merchandise of her, the Tracy wigs, the Tracey Wigs and Tracy whoopee cushions. And then she gets a call from.

[Caroline]

Mr. Pinky of Mr. Pinky's hefty hideaway.

[Ryan Farrell]

That scene, I think is my favorite scene, my favorite segment of the whole movie where she gets the call and then she, like, passes it over to her mom and like, she sort of like sits back into a rocking chair and fans herself like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm like, I've made it to the big time. I've like, heard from Mr. Pinky's hefty hideaway, the like, plus size dress shop in town.

[Caroline]

And she's like, God, mom, do you.

[Ryan Farrell]

Think we'll be able to get a free caftan?

[Caroline]

Yeah. And Edna's like, well, perks like caftans have to be negotiated.

[Ryan Farrell]

And then, and then Tracy says to her, like, you know, Edna is like, we need to get you an agent. And like, Tracy, oh, well, you be my agent. Like, you care about me so much. And then that's where we get the moment where we find out that, like, Edna hasn't left the house in 11 years. And she's like, the neighbors haven't seen me since as I was sassy.

[Caroline]

You know, you're saying this already and I can feel a lump in my throat.

[Ryan Farrell]

And she's like, mom. And she's Mom. Like, you know, it's. You know, there's a whole. It's very. It's very, like, desperate. She's like, she's like, oh, you know, I have to have, you know, I'll go out after my next diet kind of thing. And it's.

[Caroline]

She's like, the world's changing out there. You know, people who are different are being accepted.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. And like, she turns on the TV and there's like three kind of like black girls who almost look like the Supremes that are dancing and singing. And like, again, it's one of those moments where it's like, you know, it's a kind of a one for all moment that feels really lovely of like. Yeah. Is it silly to relate, like black civil rights to like, you know, like a woman with agoraphobia who feels like she's too fat to leave the house? Like, in some ways, yeah, maybe. But in other ways, like, because it's.

[Caroline]

A musical and we're all dealing with one problem.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, I guess. Yeah, we are a musical. And we're all like, yeah, dealing with one Problem. But, like, I do think that's also real to the human experience.

[Caroline]

Like, absolutely. Well, when Tracy turns on the tv, Edna doesn't see a larger older lady on the screen. She sees, you know, three black singers, you know, like, performing incredibly, and her face lights up. You know, she sees that change is happening, and that's enough to take her outside and, you know, start her new life. I mean, you get. As they go to Mr. Pinky's hefty hideaway, they're greeted by Mr. Pinky, and immediately he's absolutely delighted to see Edin. He treats her like the great beauty that he sees that she is. And he's flirting her and he's giving her, you know, donuts.

[Ryan Farrell]

Tracy, eat your donuts. Go over the contract.

[Caroline]

Flattery will not work with Ms. Turnblad's agent. We could do a whole show just in Edna impersonations, really. I left my iron on, but yeah. So at this point, we then get this really beautiful monster montage.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And it's. And it's Edna, you know, trying on new clothes and sort of embracing, you know, a break in her pattern.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And the. The big reveal. And this is one that always, like, tears us up because it's such a beautiful line. You know, she sees herself in this new light, one that she hasn't seen herself in for 11 years. And she says, do you want to sing it? I'll feel quite silly if I do.

[Ryan Farrell]

Which part?

[Caroline]

Hey, Tracy, hey, baby, look at me I'm the cutest cheeky that you ever.

[Ryan Farrell]

Did see.

[Caroline]

So nice.

[Ryan Farrell]

That's. Hey, Tracy, Hey, Tracy, look at us. When did. What's it.

[Caroline]

Where is there a teen? This happens.

[Ryan Farrell]

Fabulous.

[Caroline]

Oh, my God.

[Ryan Farrell]

I love it so much.

[Caroline]

I'm gonna watch it as soon as I get home.

[Ryan Farrell]

And I just, like. I'm sorry. John Travolta just disappears. Every part of you is like, I'm so happy for this woman who gets to, like, feel herself as a woman. And I think the costumes change as well. And the thing that's so perfect about how the kind of prosthetics are done on John Travolta, the whole body, is that like. Yeah, he's playing a larger woman, but she's got a body. Like. She's got a big, fat, high arse. That's lovely. She's got big boobs. She's got a little waist. Like, she's. She's gorgeous. She actually is gorgeous.

[Caroline]

At no point is like, Edna stature ever played for last because she is, you know, a very large, beautiful woman. Like, you know, beautiful, like happy. Lovely face, like beautiful curve, beautiful big arse, like beautiful. Like even in her dressing gowns, like everything is all very, like put together.

[Ryan Farrell]

Very plush.

[Caroline]

She's very plush. So, like all that changes really when she gets that makeover is instead of like her cotton dressing gown, she's now in sequins, but has this big fucking beautiful smile and this like new confidence. So they're out in the street, they're swinging their shopping bags, they're kicking, they've got the choreography going. There's fucking fireworks. It is stunning.

[Ryan Farrell]

Like there's nothing better in cinema than a woman going shopping. Like there's nothing better. But if that woman is like a middle aged housewife who needs a new lease on life and she's also a man in drag, like, stop the lights. It's the best thing ever.

[Caroline]

It's the only time that I ever truly believe in the term retail therapy.

[Ryan Farrell]

When a woman does it in the.

[Caroline]

Film holding loads of bags, rectangular bags with long handles.

[Ryan Farrell]

So healing. It's so, so healing.

[Caroline]

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[Ryan Farrell]

And then obviously, you know, Michelle Pfeiffer comes along and ruins everything briefly.

[Caroline]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ryan Farrell]

Because she's threatened by Tracy's success. And then, and then what happens?

[Caroline]

So basically after this point, things are moving along really nicely. You know, great things are happening for the turnbloods. Tracy goes back to detention for some reason and, oh no, she, she goes.

[Ryan Farrell]

Back to detention because Amber, Amber draws a picture. Amber has gone full cunt now. And Amber is like, what? I said Tracy didn't have sex with the whole football team. I'm sure she got those grass stains on her skirt by accident. And then Link is like, stop being such a cunt.

[Caroline]

And then she frames Tracy for drawing a picture of their teacher, their male teacher with tits. And the teacher is so like, it really gets him.

[Ryan Farrell]

He covers his tits and everything.

[Caroline]

It's very sad.

[Ryan Farrell]

I really believe that actor went method for a week to really get into the heart. It's like, Tracy, Mr. Frey does not have breasts. And then holds up the picture of their male teacher with breast and he covers his body in such a specific way.

[Caroline]

It was so out of pocket.

[Ryan Farrell]

It was so out of pocket.

[Caroline]

Amber didn't need to take the teacher down with him.

[Ryan Farrell]

No, she did. That's the kind of girl Amber is.

[Caroline]

But basically, Tracy ends up back in detention, AKA dance class, and she brings with her Penny. And this is where she introduces Penny to Seaweed. And like, Penny and Seaweed, I really love them as a couple. I really believe them. Like, the instant attraction between the two of them. Like, both actors just play it so well. Yeah. And that's where we then get run and tell that, which is one of the. I feel like I'm going to say this is one of the best songs every time we speak about one of the songs, but it is a fucking bop.

[Ryan Farrell]

It's so good. It's so good.

[Caroline]

I mean, Seaweed is just doing his best. Seaweed.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, he's dancing. It's Seaweed's main number. Right? That's his whole.

[Caroline]

Yeah, he's dancing. He's got a knitted shirt.

[Ryan Farrell]

They're taking the bus.

[Caroline]

They're on the bus. Like, even Zac Efron looks like he wants to fuck him in that scene.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. Oh, God. Zac Efron's eyes never leave him. It's so intense.

[Caroline]

He doesn't blink the whole scene. Same girl. And that's how we end up back at the record store owned by Mortarmouth Beybelle, who is Seaweed and little Inez's mother.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. And then she's just basically having a party and they're having. Like, there's lots of food there. And, like, they invite Tracy and Penny to stay. And, like, there's a, you know, a line that's like, very well observed and also feels like foreshadowing. Like, I think Link says, oh, is it okay if we're here? She says, basically, we'd be in more danger on your street. And that kind of really does. That line does sort of set up the next. The kind of stakes for the rest of the movie. And so they have fun. They're all dancing. It's all great.

[Caroline]

And they sing Big Blonde and Beautiful, which has been popularized by Holly Jervis, the X Factor auditionee, who is very love of Hans, very Huns neck culture, but affectionately known for having a very wide mouth. So I can't watch that scene anymore without thinking of Holly Jervis. But I imagine most people whose Venn diagram intersects often between Hairspray and X Factor feel the same.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. But also, Maybelle announces at this dinner, at this. At this party, rather, that the reason she's throwing the party is because they're canceling the Friday show.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's when Tracy decides that she is going to, you know, call to action and start a protest. Obviously, Edna's having none of that, but, you know, you can't keep a good Tracy down.

[Ryan Farrell]

So obviously there are shades of it being kind of a white savior narrative because we have, like, Tracy being like, well, why don't we march? And, like, in what world would the. Would the little white teenager be the first person to think of a march for civil rights? But then we do flip to sort of Queen Latifah's Ms. Maybelle's point of view for her number, which is I Know Where I've Been. And, like, it's just this beautiful, beautiful song that she just holds so well of, like. And it's like, when we were watching it, you said something like, you know, this is kind of one of those songs that finds you no matter where you are. It kind of has that defying gravity element to it where you feel like it's just this character saying, like, to quote Tash last week, somebody who knows they're about to do a really hard thing and that it's a very hard battle to, like, you know, win, but that they've been harder places before and that they keep moving through them.

[Caroline]

Absolutely. I mean, it's a part. It's a really powerful song, and it just speaks to. I mean, I think when you. When you take a movie and adapt it into a musical, you know, the thing that really makes that translate and, you know, find a lot, find and hold an audience is the power of the songbook. And we've seen this year, like, the Mean Girls musical was released, and it.

[Ryan Farrell]

Kind of so dead in the Rival.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Because I think that it really just sort of bought people in on the good graces of. You're a millennial and you love this movie, so you're gonna like the musical version of it. Whereas with Hairspray, you know, they took what was a cult movie and elevated it with a really, really powerful songbook. And I think that I Know Where I've Been is probably the best example of, you know, a really impactful song on the soundtrack. I mean, you listen to that. And obviously Queen Latifah, she's an Academy Award winning actress and an artist who has, you know, been in musicals before. But this song, you could imagine it could be a single by maybe J. Blige very easily because it's just such a weighty, beautiful, like, A heavy song. And with Tracy, you do feel throughout the movie, and maybe that's where as a. As a story, as a plot over the years, it may have aged a little, and that there is a real sort of evident white savior complex in Tracy. It's a very well meaning character, but you can't not see that through a 2024 lens. But at the same time as well, there isn't a time where, you know, one of the black characters, whether it be Seaweed, Mortarmouth Maybelle or Inez, is, you know, speaking or singing or, you know, front and center, where they are not controlling their narrative and, like, standing in their power. And I think that Queen Latifah and that song is the best example of that. Like, she's the one that is, like, guiding her journey in this moment. And it's not because Tracy's saying we should, you know, form a protest. Like, it's Queen Latifah, it's Mortarmouth Maybelle's voice that she is using. And that's where the power is in that moment.

[Ryan Farrell]

It's like, if Tracy's adding anything to it, it's the fact that her naivety. Her naivety and her sunniness sort of is just kind of infectious for people. And she just has this big open face that, like, you can really feel like if you were in a room with that character, you would sort of believe anything is possible. Even things you might have tried before, you know.

[Caroline]

But also, this was a time where, I mean, well, it's always the case, but particularly in the 1960s, advocacy was crucial.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

[Caroline]

The movie demonstrates that very, very well. Even though there is much more discussion about, you know, the harmfulness of a white savior complex in 2024, there's also equally, like, advocacy is always going to be important. We always need to step up. We always need to, you know.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Be in the right side of history.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. And. But like, it was also like, you know, you see Maybelle say to Tracy, at some point, you know, you'll never dance on TV again. And then you get like, Tracy have that moment being like, this is more important. She's like, I know. And, like, it's something like. I think what's so powerful about Hairspray is that it is a musical that, like, it is silly, it is funny, it is camp. But, like, every single character goes through massive internal shifts throughout. And you go from Tracy literally saying at the top of the musical, like, all I care about in the world is being a dancer on tv, to being. To, like, you Know, an hour later being like, I don't care anymore.

[Caroline]

I just.

[Ryan Farrell]

This is more important. And that's huge. And you get the same with Edna, and you get the same with, like, all the characters, really. They have a moment where they decide what's really important to them and they go for it. You know, whether it's like, being true to who they are or being true to, like, a version of the world they want to see.

[Caroline]

Yeah, well, at the very center of all is very human stories.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And that's why when the stakes are high, they feel high.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

I think when you look at a musical like Chicago, it really is all razzle dazzle. You're really along for the ride that presents. But at no point do you, as an audience member feel threatened by any kind of peril that the main characters are in or what they're going through. You know, you're just having a real good time.

[Ryan Farrell]

Oh, I disagree. I think by the time they hang the Hungarian woman and you're like, oh, no. Oh, no, what if one of my friends dies? That's how I feel.

[Caroline]

We have different relationships to Chicago, which I think you've probably already discussed at length on here before.

[Ryan Farrell]

Have you? Yeah, we have, we have. So I refer you to the Chicago episode.

[Caroline]

But anyway, how does Tracy ultimately use her advocacy? Well, she boings a policeman over the head with her sign and incites a riot.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, she does. That's Tracy's advocacy. She actually fucks things up for everybody.

[Caroline]

Yeah. So it's all kicking off at this point. Up until now, the Turnbloods have basically sorted everything in their house. Everything was going quite nicely, apart from a threat of adultery in the form of Vilma Von Tussel showing up at.

[Ryan Farrell]

The joke shop to seduce Wilbur.

[Caroline]

Wilbur. Yeah. And then the. The. And then Wilbur and Edna basically rekindle their love through one of the most beautiful songs. To me, the greatest love song in a musical. We've cried a lot of tears at that.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, we have. Yeah. And it's just about, like, how, you know, it's just like a very sweet, mature, funny song about, like, how. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Like, you're like a stinky old cheese babe, just getting better with time. It's like a real crooner number and it's a duet. But, like, there's something. I think if I heard it on the soundtrack, I would probably skip over it, like, if I didn't know the musical. Do you know what I mean? But, like, watching Christopher Walken and John Travolta play A married couple who've been together for maybe 20 years and who aren't bored of each other yet at all and are just obsessed with each other and is so lovely. It's just they're so dedicated to each other. And you just totally believe it the whole time.

[Caroline]

You know, that song really reminds me of you and Gav.

[Ryan Farrell]

Oh, my God. Why would you say that?

[Caroline]

It does. It's just kind of like your relationship, isn't it? You're like stinky old cheeses that are getting better with age. And Sylv is your Tracy Turnblad.

[Ryan Farrell]

Oh, my God.

[Caroline]

You've got a kid that's blowing the lid off the Turnblad family tree.

[Ryan Farrell]

When they sing that, it makes me so upset. I literally can't even think about it without getting upset. And we got a kid who's blowing the lid off the Turnblad family tree.

[Caroline]

I know that every time that we watch the. Usually we're, like, clasping hands, but I know that I'll turn around and your eyes are just red and filled with tears.

[Ryan Farrell]

It's just so important. I don't know why. It just destroys me.

[Caroline]

It's so important. And everything is all tickety. Boo.

[Ryan Farrell]

They're just like that little family. You're right. They're so irrepressible as a family. They're just such little freaks.

[Caroline]

It's just.

[Ryan Farrell]

But they love each other so much.

[Caroline]

Such a solid little freak unit.

[Ryan Farrell]

I know. I love them.

[Caroline]

And then he gets to pack up his rollaway bed of whoopee cushions.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Move back into the main bedroom. And everything is all lovely until Tracy. Insights. Ariah.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, sure.

[Caroline]

And that is how we end up moving to one of the greatest songs in the movie.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yes. So without love. Oh, my God. Without love. Without love.

[Caroline]

Oh, my God. How have we never done that in karaoke together?

[Ryan Farrell]

I know. We must change this.

[Caroline]

I think that we've definitely singing all parts.

[Ryan Farrell]

I certainly don't have the range, but she simply does not have the range. Yeah. And it's just like all the characters uniting again and sort of so beautiful, but also so weird because it involves, like, Link breaking into Tracy's room and picking up a framed photograph of her. Also her Link. Her room is covered in photos of him, which is strange. And then he picks up a friend photo of her and is singing to it. And then she starts singing back. And it's. It is one of the more uncanny valley moments of the film. But it doesn't matter because the song is so good.

[Caroline]

Yeah. We never. We never really Spoke about how unhealthy her obsession with Link was before she started shifting him.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, I can hear the bells.

[Caroline]

It's kind of like baby reindeer. If Martha won.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, it sort of is. It sort of is. There's a song where she decides that she's in love with Link called I Can Hear the Bells. And it does have a stalker like intensity of her. Just, like, watching him from windows and pressing her hands up against it.

[Caroline]

She's watching him combing his hair in the jacks. That is not okay.

[Ryan Farrell]

There's a bit where she's taking a driver's ed class, and she turns to the teacher and says, won't go all the way, but I'll go pretty far.

[Caroline]

The driver's ed teacher is so uncomfortable. He's like, how far? I'm your teacher.

[Ryan Farrell]

Why are you telling me that? You blow someone, but you wouldn't ride them. So the denouement of the movie is that Tracy is going to break in and sabotage the Miss Teen Hairspray Pageant, which is like the event of the year on the Corny Collins Show. And also there are agents from the William Morris Agency that are there to look at Amber dance, because, yeah, that's what's happening. And one of those agents is played by Ricki Lake.

[Caroline]

Ricki Lake. It's such a nice little cameo, isn't it?

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, she's really acting. She's really doing a lot of face acting in it. And Ricki Lake originated the role of Tracy, which is a nice detail in the John Waters movie.

[Caroline]

Yeah, they don't beat you over the head with it either. She just sat there giving Anne a wintour face in the audience. Yeah, I love it. But yeah, so basically, Tracy is now, like, America's Most Wanted. They are trying. Instead of postponing the show, they fully go ahead with it, despite the fact that several of their cast members are now, like, wanted by the police. So instead of canceling, they just have very extensive security detail around the TV studio. And they managed to basically get past them by Trojan horsing Tracy into the studio in a hairspray can. In a giant hairspray can. Ultra clutch. Specifically ultra clutch. So, yeah, that's. That's. That brings us to, like, the big finale of the movie, which is you can't stop the beat and everything moves very fast at this stage, basically, chaos kind of ensues. On the set of the show, Velma is hiding votes to try and rig the competition for Amber. Tracy is somewhere in the studio hiding in a fucking hairspray tin Link is just carrying on as normal, even though his girlfriend on the lamb.

[Ryan Farrell]

Oh. Because importantly, Link has had, like. Link has not been courageous. He's been very cowardly.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Ryan Farrell]

Because he's been like, oh, I've been dancing on the show for years. This is my big chance. And he sort of.

[Caroline]

How long do you think?

[Ryan Farrell]

What was he, 14 on the show? Like, what was going on? I don't know. But it's also. Tracy can then suddenly appear on stage, having climbed out of the can, and she, like, comes out of a rocket ship, symbolizing the future, because the future is Tracy. And also importantly, Tracy, who is known for her kind of very, like, sort of crazy updo, her bouffant, ratted hair. Actually, one of my favorite lines of the movie is when Edna is giving out to Tracy about having this high, bouffanted, ratted hair, and she says, jackie Kennedy does it. And then Edna says, I don't believe that. I believe it is naturally stiff.

[Caroline]

I do, too. But then Tracy comes out of the.

[Ryan Farrell]

Rocket, and she has long, straight hair and, like, a mod dress.

[Caroline]

It is incredible. She looks. She looks a fucking 10.

[Ryan Farrell]

She looks so good.

[Caroline]

It's the best look of the whole movie.

[Ryan Farrell]

She looks so good.

[Caroline]

And she basically.

[Ryan Farrell]

It's so smart as well, to go from that sort of version of the 60s that's basically the late 50s, and into, like, this kind of mod, straight look. It's like, ooh, okay, styling. Okay, wardrobe.

[Caroline]

It's giving Cher.

[Ryan Farrell]

It's giving Cher.

[Caroline]

Yeah. So basically, at this point, she tells Amber to get the fuck out of here.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, get the fuck out.

[Caroline]

The head bitch in charge is back, and she just dives straight into the closing number. You can't stop the beat. Like, the phones start ringing for Tracy. People are going nuts. Like, Velma's behind the scenes having an absolute kitten. It's all popping off. And. Yeah, I mean, we just start, like, moving through our finale now where, like, basically everything that Velma wanted to happen is completely unraveling in front of her. And she, at the same time, is completely and very publicly unraveling.

[Ryan Farrell]

Mmm, delicious. And it really is hairsprays one day more. Like, we really do get every constituent part of the musical coming together on stage. And it's also, you know, everyone's storyline is being wrapped up, and everyone's sort of showing you what they learned. And, like, you know, the. Like, Tracy grabs little Inez. Little Inez is. I guess she's like 12 or something. And like you said earlier on, she's probably the only Dancer who of the whole of this entire cast who dances all the time, who kind of really does have her own specific style. Like earlier on her little paws, she does this little paw dance that is just so, so cute. And you would, you really do believe that like when she gets out on stage and she dances and like it's so. She's got so much natural charisma, even though as a performer she doesn't have that many lines, but just this, this personality comes out through dance that is just so irrepressible. And then the phones start ringing off the hook. And then we get Maybelle who comes on and we just get. Everybody comes on. Like, what are the other bits? I don't know.

[Caroline]

And everybody gets to come on and have their final say. And it's like their big moment of like liberation, you know, where they're like on a very public platform. You know, Edna comes on and she just presents herself to the world and.

[Ryan Farrell]

She has like a Tina Turner moment where she has like a little, the rest a rip away sequin short thing. And she got the little legs going. You can't stop the way I look. Cause I like the way I am.

[Caroline]

And you just can't stop my knife. And folk when I see a Christmas ham. Oh my God, so good.

[Ryan Farrell]

And you get penny and seaweed coming on, just sort of re. Announcing their love for each other.

[Caroline]

See, this is where it's like really beautiful as well, because you got obviously little Inez, she comes on, she dances, the phone lines start going crazy. And there's, there's this moment where you know that you, you can see like all of the, the telephone operators just like can't keep up with the amount of calls that are coming through.

[Ryan Farrell]

That's my favorite thing to happen in like a, in a movie where like the operators can't keep up with the calls. The lights are flashing, the guys are getting all, oh, wait, whoa.

[Caroline]

The ringing and the flashing.

[Ryan Farrell]

We weren't expecting this for a local teen dance competition, but now we're on the edge of history.

[Caroline]

And that's when little Inez is then named as the head dancer of the Cornie Collins show because she's won the Miss Teen Hairspray contest. And then it's at that point that Courtney Collins announces that the Courtney Collins show is now and forever integrated.

[Ryan Farrell]

It's very moving.

[Caroline]

And then he subsequently goes straight over, grabs Ms. Maybelle and tells her this is your moment. And she comes on. She is basically co hosting now with Corny. And she sings a line. Tomorrow is a Brand new day and it don't know white from black. And it's just that bit. I absolutely lose it every single time. It's just so beautiful. Everybody's dancing together. They're super happy. You can even see that Amber's having a bit of a redemption arc. Velma gets fired from the show, which I think is just enough of a comeuppance for her, because we like her. She's the villain. But she had that big signature number, so we're doomed to like her. Getting fired is enough. I don't want her to jump off a bridge, you know, Javert style. You know, we need to know that Ms. Velma lives. And that's it. The movie sort of wraps up in a nice, beautiful, neat bowl where everybody got what they wanted. Well, everybody of good intention.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah. And everybody changes and everybody, you know, it's just great. And then Lincoln and Tracy kiss, and it's just. It's just the perfect little movie.

[Caroline]

Finn.

[Ryan Farrell]

Fun. I love it.

[Caroline]

I love it. I loved. I loved all of it. I love this.

[Ryan Farrell]

I love this. I love you.

[Caroline]

This movie always does this to me.

[Ryan Farrell]

I know it, like. Yeah.

[Caroline]

Oh, my God.

[Ryan Farrell]

On some levels, this is what musicals are for. It's like. It does just to make you feel like. And again, I keep coming back to what Tash said the other week about, like, how they are fundamentally about things coming together. Do you know what I mean? Things like that don't have very much in common coming together in the best possible way, whether it's, like, electrics and wardrobe and lighting and acting and dancing, music and instruments. It's like. And that's how the end of a musical should make you feel. It should make you feel that, like, anything is possible, that anything could come together. That, like, there is a sense of unity in the world. And I think that, like, no, nothing does it better than Airspray.

[Caroline]

Well, that's. That's exactly it. My favorite type of musical is one where ordinary people do extraordinary things.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And, you know, I think that's why, you know, best Little Whorehouse in Texas is another musical that. That really sort of is very personal to us, but really ticks that box. And it's. Because it's. With that type of musical, it can fit into your life at any time, in whatever situation you're in, and it's always going to uplift you, and it always does. And I come out of it, you know, if I've had a bad day and I put on hairspray, I feel cleansed coming out of it. I know how. I know how, you know, saccharine that sounds, but it's true. I think that's the gift that musicals give. It's that no matter what situation you're in, it lifts you out of it and brings you somewhere beautiful. And, you know, if you've got these beautiful characters that you're sitting with for an hour and a half, two hours, however long it is, and you go through that journey with them, and at the end, you've. They've won. You've won as well.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

So that. That's why we usually sit at the end of Hairspray balling and blobbing, because we went along in that whole journey, and they've won. And we've won.

[Ryan Farrell]

We've won. We got to watch them, and that's the win. Oh, this has been lovely. I'm so glad that we can finally talk publicly and officially about our love of this movie that not enough people care about.

[Caroline]

I really, really.

[Ryan Farrell]

You bring this up with people and they're like, oh, yeah, okay, like, what was wrong? It's on Netflix. Come on. You all have Netflix?

[Caroline]

Absolutely. I just think that. Well, there's a couple of things. I think that it was released at the wrong time. You know, movie musicals have come such a long way in the last sort of 10, 15 years since.

[Ryan Farrell]

I mean, they're always an uphill struggle, no matter when.

[Caroline]

Absolutely. But now you've got. Since the release of, like, Les Mis and, like, the Greatest Showman, there's, like, this newfound respect for musicals that I think was absent in 2007. Like, it had to be all the way cheesy, like a Mamma Mia. That I think that it had too much sincerity at that time. And. And, you know.

[Ryan Farrell]

Yeah, because you're right. Because, like, tonally, nothing is really like Hairspray in that thing. It's, like, so filled with irony and darkness, but also so filled with happiness and light. I actually think it makes much more sense for, like, kind of a TikTok sensibility now than it would in 2007. Do you mean where we weren't used to that kind of tonal blending?

[Caroline]

For sure. I love it. Anyway, I love it.

[Ryan Farrell]

Whatever time it comes out, I love it.

[Caroline]

Absolutely. Particularly Christmas, which I will watch again in a few weeks with my sister. Thank you so much for having me.

[Ryan Farrell]

It's been great. What a day we've had. We've bought a tree. We put it up. We watched Hairspray. We did podcast.

[Caroline]

I know what next. We should probably finish before Sylv starts getting agitated.

[Ryan Farrell]

I know. Again, do you want to promote anything of yourself, of your Instagram, of your anything?

[Caroline]

Yeah. So my Instagram is Mr. R. Fourreal. So that's R. Fourreal. Thank you so much for having me on. This has been a blast.

[Ryan Farrell]

It's been too late coming. Thank you so much. And like anyone who is a fan of the Rachel incident, you might recognize Ryan from the acknowledgments. So this is an Easter egg for you. Bye everyone.

[Caroline]

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