He's Just Not That Into You with Lauren Bravo

Summary

Sentimental Garbage Podcast Summary

Episode: He's Just Not That Into You with Lauren Bravo
Release Date: February 27, 2025
Host: Caroline O'Donoghue
Guest: Lauren Bravo

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Introduction

In this episode of Sentimental Garbage, host Caroline O'Donoghue welcomes guest Lauren Bravo to delve deep into the intricacies of the film "He's Just Not That Into You." The conversation navigates through the movie's origins, character dynamics, thematic elements, and personal reflections, offering listeners a comprehensive analysis of a film that intertwines romance, reality, and societal expectations.

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Origins and Background

Caroline (00:55): Introduces the film as a pivotal topic that resonates with the podcast's theme of exploring culture and societal norms.

Lauren Bravo (02:20): Explains that "He's Just Not That Into You" originates from the Sex and the City universe, based on a best-selling non-fiction self-help book by Greg Baron and Liz Tuchilo. The book expanded a memorable line from Sex and the City into a full-fledged film exploring modern relationships.

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Character Analysis

Ginnifer Goodwin's Character

Lauren Bravo (07:01): Describes Ginnifer Goodwin's character as the central figure around whom other storylines orbit. She embodies the "smell of want," being irresistibly attractive yet emotionally unavailable.

Notable Quote (08:06):
Lauren Bravo: "She has what my brothers would call a smell of want."

Jennifer Aniston's Character

Caroline (24:25): Praises Jennifer Aniston's nuanced performance, portraying a character deeply in love yet grappling with the fear of commitment.

Notable Quote (25:04):
Lauren Bravo: "She doesn't get to keep the house... She's running over."

Jennifer Connelly's Character

Lauren Bravo (32:05): Highlights Jennifer Connelly's portrayal of a woman silently enduring her husband's infidelity, showcasing immense emotional resilience.

Notable Quote (33:14):
Caroline: "When she smashes the mirror and starts sweeping, crying – it’s so real."

Scarlett Johansson's Character

Caroline (40:08): Discusses Scarlett Johansson's role as a beautiful yet emotionally guarded woman, whose interaction with Jennifer Aniston's character adds depth to the narrative.

Notable Quote (63:34):
Lauren Bravo: "You are my exception."

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Key Themes and Discussions

Relationship Realism vs. Rom-Com Tropes

The hosts explore how the film deviates from traditional romantic comedies by presenting relationships that defy idealized narratives. Instead of fairy-tale endings, the characters navigate complex emotions and real-life challenges.

Caroline (16:31):
"They're trying to love awful men while retaining their dignity."

Lauren Bravo (23:15):
"The film says, people are a bit fucked up and society's a bit shit, but you're giving it a bloody good go."

Dignity and Emotional Resilience

A recurring theme is the importance of maintaining self-respect amidst romantic turmoil. Characters exhibit strength by setting boundaries and making difficult choices to preserve their emotional well-being.

Caroline (33:31):
"She's crying while she's sweeping... Holding everything together."

Lauren Bravo (34:10):
"When you're holding everything together, you often have to suppress your own emotions."

The "Smell of Want" Concept

The hosts discuss the metaphorical "smell of want," representing unfulfilled desires and the longing for meaningful connections, which permeates the characters' interactions.

Lauren Bravo (04:35):
"The meaning you're reading into it becomes the medium itself."

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Notable Scenes and Their Impact

Mirror-Smashing Incident

A pivotal moment where Jennifer Connelly's character reaches her breaking point by smashing a mirror, symbolizing the culmination of suppressed emotions and unmet expectations.

Caroline (33:29):
"Crying while she's sweeping... It's just so real."

Final Confrontation in the Office

Scarlett Johansson's character stands up to her unfaithful husband, emphasizing her reclaiming of dignity and refusal to succumb to societal pressures.

Lauren Bravo (63:34):
"He holds her face and says, 'You are my exception.'"

Sisters' Wedding Scene

Jennifer Aniston's character attends her sister's wedding, reflecting on her own single status and confronting familial and societal expectations.

Caroline (65:47):
"She's walking a dog down the aisle... looking breathtaking."

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Personal Reflections and Anecdotes

Both hosts share personal experiences related to the film's themes, illustrating how "He's Just Not That Into You" mirrors real-life relationship challenges and self-discovery journeys.

Lauren Bravo (78:12):
"I’ve always just been ghosted... Ghosting looks like a bad person."

Caroline (80:31):
"I remember the first time I was ghosted... I completely misread that thought."

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Conclusions and Final Thoughts

Caroline and Lauren conclude that "He's Just Not That Into You" offers a truthful portrayal of modern relationships, blending humor with heartfelt moments. The film's strength lies in its realistic depiction of love, loss, and the quest for personal integrity amidst societal expectations.

Lauren Bravo (77:13):
"It's a truthful one. It had moved on slightly where Justin Long could be the romantic lead."

Caroline (81:55):
"Relationship drama that centers on women's lives presented beautifully with great jokes – that’s what I like."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Lauren Bravo (08:06): "She has what my brothers would call a smell of want."
• Lauren Bravo (33:14): "She is so good… Can we talk about when she smashes the mirror…"
• Lauren Bravo (63:34): "You are my exception."

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Final Remarks

This episode provides an in-depth exploration of "He's Just Not That Into You," highlighting its departure from typical romantic narratives and its embrace of authentic emotional experiences. Through engaging dialogue and personal insights, Caroline and Lauren offer listeners a meaningful analysis that underscores the film's enduring relevance in understanding modern love and self-worth.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, introductions, and non-content segments to focus solely on the substantive discussion between Caroline and Lauren.

Transcript

[Lauren Bravo]

Mmm. I love ravioli. O tanta.

[Caroline]

Family.

[Lauren Bravo]

Since when do you speak Italian?

[Caroline]

Since we partnered with SAP Concur.

[Lauren Bravo]

Their integrated travel and expense platform and.

[Caroline]

Breakthrough solutions with AI gave me time.

[Lauren Bravo]

Back to dive into our financial future. We expand into Europe in 2027, so I'm getting ready.

[Caroline]

Well, you can predict the future. I can predict.

[Lauren Bravo]

You'll like that message.

[Caroline]

What message?

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, hey, we all got bonuses you.

[Caroline]

Can save for college now. I don't have kids. You don't say SAP Concur helps your business move forward faster. Learn [e-mail]. hello and welcome to Sentimental Garbage, the podcast where bitter truths come in the form of ensemble casts and Baltimore real estate. My name is Caroline and I'm the yoga teacher you keep in a closet while you nail your wife at the office. And she was first uttered by Jack Berger and has gained sentience since. It's Lauren. Bravo.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh.

[Caroline]

When I first started doing this podcast, this is exactly what I wrote down that I wanted somebody to come on and talk about with it.

[Lauren Bravo]

I'm so happy. And you know, I thought that because I was like. I remembered you saying you liked topics that had a bit of a stink on them.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

Nothing has more stink on it than this film. But I love it so much.

[Caroline]

But like layers of stink, like complex oud of stink.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, it's a milfoy of stink.

[Caroline]

Can we start with this movie? Because I love this movie, have always loved this movie, have always defended it, and I've always maintained that. That it is, as far as ensemble cast movies go, better than love, actually.

[Lauren Bravo]

Interesting. Okay. Yeah, I'm willing to take that. We know it's better than Valentine's Day and New Year's Eve, which are the main other ensemble casts that were spawned in the wake of love.

[Caroline]

Actually, what to expect when you're expecting.

[Lauren Bravo]

Which I also kind of love. Also based on a self help book.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

Such a niche genre within a genre.

[Caroline]

What were they doing, do you think?

[Lauren Bravo]

I don't know, but I'm glad they did it. But crucially, this one very different to those other ones because it's not based on a calendar occasion.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's based on the year round experience of men not being that into you.

[Caroline]

I think what's so fascinating about this film, other than how surprisingly good it is, is the kind of the ephemera of the late 2000s that it represents.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, my God. Yes.

[Caroline]

So why don't you begin with where this movie came from? Tell the children where this music is coming from.

[Lauren Bravo]

Okay, so. So this movie is part of the Sex and the City extended universe.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

Right. It was based on a nonfiction self help book of the same name written by two Sex and the City writers.

[Caroline]

Greg Baron and Liz Tuchilo.

[Lauren Bravo]

Fabulous. And they wrote the episode Pick a Little, Talk a Little Right, in which Jack Burger, who is dating Carrie, offers Miranda this piece of advice. And she's been on this date with a guy and, you know, he hasn't wanted to come up afterwards. And all the girls are like, oh, no, no, he was tired, whatever. And Jack says. Burger says, sorry, I'm calling you Jack. Burger says, he's just not that into you. And Miranda finds this incredibly empowering. And it's her new life philosophy. And she kind of helpfully tells two women on the street who are obsessing over a guy not getting back to them, and they call her a bitch. And it's a very small plot point, but it's lovely and satisfying. And then they had this incredibly successful. Was it incredibly successful?

[Caroline]

It certainly looked successful.

[Lauren Bravo]

I think it was a bestseller.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

And neither of us have read it. No. Should we have read it for this? Maybe.

[Caroline]

Maybe. Yeah. I did briefly think about Daniel digging on Kindle last night, but then I was like, you know what? I've got one life.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. Right. And it does strike me as a classic example of a book that is a sentence that has been dragged out.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

For 70,000 words.

[Caroline]

Because I think what's fascinating about both this movie and the kind of the situation it arose from within Sex and the City is that the power of the statement is the brevity of the statement.

[Lauren Bravo]

Exactly. That's all you need.

[Caroline]

That's literally.

[Lauren Bravo]

Literally all you need. Doesn't need to be a book.

[Caroline]

The whole point is that, like, women we enjoy. And I think this is really well dealt with in this movie that, like, so much of how we bond with each other and connect with each other is by dissecting emotional moments and signals and things that don't really mean anything. But it's less to do with the relationships we're trying to foster outside of the relationship and more about the relationship we're fostering with the woman in front of us.

[Lauren Bravo]

Right. And it's kind of like GCSE English in a way. You know, when you had those moments.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

And you'd be like, but most. Did Shakespeare actually mean that?

[Caroline]

Kind of.

[Lauren Bravo]

Doesn't matter. It's sort of irrelevant because it's about the art that you're almost creating between you and your girlfriends.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

Around the. You know, it's the meaning you're reading into it becomes the medium itself.

[Caroline]

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And so to sort of. To then parlay a very simple statement from a very kind of like every, like, you know, Burger is one of the most toxically every guy characters. He's like, him and Aidan Shaw are kind of sort of two sides of the same coin. Of like, imagine if a normal man from the normal world wandered into the superhero universe of these crazy women.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, that's right. What would they make of it? You're seeing it through their eyes, like.

[Caroline]

Oh, he's just up that into you. And then it's like we sort of judo moved the power of itself on itself by making that into a self help book.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, it's the Milfoy again. It's just layers upon layers upon layers. Oh, but I love it. And yet then it's a film that is, you know, a film that is.

[Caroline]

Written by another male female writing duo called Abby Cohn and Mark Silverstein, who together made another great ensemble movie that. One of the rare ensemble movies that works. Sister of the Traveling Pounds.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

Magical Sense. And also Never Been Kissed, which is Drew Barrymore.

[Lauren Bravo]

Drew Barrymore vehicle. Yeah. And didn't the guy also direct Sesame street, which I found charming. And several episodes of Theory. Ensemble cast. More diverse.

[Caroline]

Knows how to juggle talent. More diverse. Listen, these guys know how to juggle a lot of their big personalities, whether it's Elmo and Big Bird. They do. Or Drew Barrymore and Jennifer Connelly.

[Lauren Bravo]

Well, you get a lot of bang for your buck in this film because you get two Jennifers and a Jinnifer. Yes, right, Mordo. The film gives you that.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Well, apparently I heard this on. On Sarah Marshall's podcast. You are good. That she started. She changed her SAG name. She was Jennifer Goodwin.

[Lauren Bravo]

Of course she was.

[Caroline]

And changed it to Jennifer Goodwin because she's Southern. And that's how Southern people say, Jennifer, Jennifer.

[Lauren Bravo]

That's adorable.

[Caroline]

I know.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's like David Walliams, but nice.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah. That's so much less upsetting. The. So, okay, yeah, basically it's a story about all these interlocking relationships, all of them whom are linked. And we kind of like the central one, the kind of nub at the beginning of who we're sort of following the most is Ginnifer Goodwin's character, who in true to 2009 is one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen.

[Lauren Bravo]

And is and is not meant to.

[Caroline]

Be played like she Is like a horror.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, don't.

[Caroline]

It's just kind of an echo of the Mona Lisa smile sort of character, isn't it?

[Lauren Bravo]

100%.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. Who I think is the spiritual ancestor of. Is it Jan in Greece? The one that is meant to be chubby. And then you see her at the end in the green sundress and you're like, fuck you anyway. Do you know what I mean though? They've got similar vibes and they're meant to be this kind of like gawky outsider girl, but you know, look through looked at with any normal eyes.

[Caroline]

I'm imagining a kind of Neanderthal to humans evolutionary scale of Jan to Jennifer.

[Lauren Bravo]

She skipped around that fun fair so that Jennifer could run.

[Caroline]

Run question mark. But I think, I mean, even starting with Ginnifer Goodwin and that character being like basically a copy paste of the Mona Lisa smile character who's like, oh, she's the most beautiful girl I've ever seen. And no one wants to be near her for some reason because. And specifically because not. And I think it's not because she's not beautiful, but just because she has what my brothers would call a smell of want.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh God, that just went right through me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I realized this, this film came out in 2009, so that was the last year that I was single before I met the mum that is now my husband, which is terrifying. So this film found me when I was right in the midst of my Ginnifer Goodwin kind of stinking font.

[Caroline]

So young.

[Lauren Bravo]

So young. Oh yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

22. How long were you?

[Lauren Bravo]

21. Yeah. But I'd been to an all girls school, so my, my years, like I had a very short span basically of being kind of on the market before.

[Caroline]

Yeah. But to you, because you were in all girls school, probably felt like. Yeah, completely like a proper bed and sister. Just.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

When will my life begin?

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. And when you're waiting that long, you also have a lot of time to invent your own law and mythology around all the reasons that men don't love you. Yeah, right. And it's not just because I don't know any men. It'll be because, you know, I pulled the wrong pout across the train compartment and the boy from the all boys school therefore has written me off. Yeah. So no, I really felt it and like I was right back again watching.

[Caroline]

This and weren't you. Sorry if this is too personal and we will edit it out, but didn't you like meet your husband on like some random Dating site go like my single friend or something. Am I allowed to retain that?

[Lauren Bravo]

I'm wanting this information about me, Caroline. Yes. And I mean random dating website. It was invented by Sarah Beaney from Property Ladder. So respect on her name, please.

[Caroline]

I'm so sorry. To Sarah.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, yeah. It was a pre tinder age and it was when you had to open a laptop and go on a website and it was at that kind of cuspy point where Internet dating had become a bit more normalized, but there was still that sense among your parents that you might get murdered. You know, it was kind of pioneering.

[Caroline]

So the whole point of My Single Friend was it was a recommendation based.

[Lauren Bravo]

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So your friend had to write your profile.

[Caroline]

It's so crazy to me when I think about like 22 year olds. I know now the idea of one of them on this side.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, it's hilarious.

[Caroline]

Oh, it's like, it's so fusty. It's so like delightfully fusty.

[Lauren Bravo]

And it was, I mean, just again, the smell of want to be like, look, I have a friend. I have a. I have one friend and I've obviously.

[Caroline]

Was it Amy Jones who put you on it or something?

[Lauren Bravo]

No, this was pre Amy. No, it was my friend Hannah from school. And then it was his friend Hannah adorably, oh, sweet Hannah's brought us together. Yeah, but, yeah, so.

[Caroline]

But the reason I bring it up is not to just shame you publicly for an audience of Australians, but because I think there's something really important about like how recently we were really problematizing the singleness of extremely young people.

[Lauren Bravo]

Hundred percent. Although, do you not think in watching this again, I felt like it's actually a very 30 something film. A lot of the issues, like not for Ginnifer Goodwin so much also, by the way, this is not a film where we're gonna know any character names. Right?

[Caroline]

Actors only.

[Lauren Bravo]

Actors only.

[Caroline]

Whenever. When I heard that at the very end that Scarlett Johansson's character is called Anna, I was like, I said out loud to myself, who's Anna? What?

[Lauren Bravo]

Like who? Also, she's not an Anna. Come on. No, she's like a Sky Anya. Yes, that's who she should be. Yeah. What was my point? Yeah, maybe not so much her storyline, but with the Jennifer Aniston, Ben Affleck, with the Jennifer Connellies of it all. It's so int mid 30s. It really is in a way that probably went completely over my head when I first saw it. But I have been re watching this film solidly for like 16 years because it's always on ITV2 and it's one of those films I'm incapable of turning off.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And it's like a really good hang.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's a great hang. You turn it on at any point, you're straight in.

[Caroline]

You're straight in.

[Lauren Bravo]

Love it.

[Caroline]

I'm so glad I have seen this millions of times as well. So many, many times. Because. Yeah. Always syndicated and it's just again, the milfoil of stink around it makes me love it so much more.

[Lauren Bravo]

So much more. But I've never really had an in depth conversation apart from a whispered like, oh, I love that film. You know, with other women. I've never been able to sit down and analyze it because it's so solidly B list.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And I think as well, when I was reading the very bad reviews of it at the time, there was a real sense that like this movie is depressing, right? Yeah. From reviewers everywhere. Male, female, everyone.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. And I don't feel that I think what I feel. And actually I wrote down when I was watching it last night, I was like. I think in a weird way what I like about this film is that it's not that romantic.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's very.

[Caroline]

Most of the characters end up single at the end.

[Lauren Bravo]

Most of the characters end up single. The ones that don't have really been through the mill together.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

And it's almost. It's like it's a film about some kind of fairly messed up people just trying their best to make some love happen while retaining their dignity.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

And their self respect. And I like it for that. I like it that it's realistic. And I think, you know, and I look, I love rom coms. I like romances, but I'm quite selective. I don't love them wholly. I'm not a big fan of the tropes.

[Caroline]

I am exactly the same as you. Right. What I like is relationship drama presented to me in an attractive way.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. That's it. Yeah. And actually I kind of. I. You know, when you're watching Jen and Ben get. Jen and Ben, that's not a. Yeah. When you're watching other Jen and Ben get married on the boat a day and other Ben. And you know that he maybe doesn't really want to be getting married and you know that she kind of knows that he's proposed just because she really wanted it. In a way that's a different kind of romance because that is two people making a big compromise to build a life together and taking a bit of a chance and that's very real. It's very real. It's very real.

[Caroline]

The fantasy is getting married on a boat in a mini dress with just five friends present. But the reality is, like, something that you and I have spoken about in this same room not three years ago or whatever. The idea of, like, many people are in loving relationships with men who adore them and who would hate to think that, like, they are causing their girlfriend and best friend psychic stress by not marrying them. And yet they are.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yes.

[Caroline]

We are there in the situation, you know, 100%.

[Lauren Bravo]

Now, I have a question. Do you think it would have been a better ending in any way if they hadn't got married? Is there any part of you who, when he kneels down and gives her that ring at the end that thinks, ah, shit, man, you've really gone back on your principles?

[Caroline]

I think it would have been better if he gave in and she gave in at the same time. If he proposes and then she goes, I don't need that.

[Lauren Bravo]

Right.

[Caroline]

You know?

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I'm inclined to agree. Yeah, I think I am. But I still think there is something kind of oddly beautiful in him kind of going, ah, do you know what, Fi? It's a ring. It's a piece of paper.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

It'll make it to you.

[Caroline]

It matters to you. It matters to also, like, her not backing down, being like, yes, it does matter to me. Yes. So maybe I do like it.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, no, I know what you mean. I do. And like. And also, I think part of the reason people gave it terrible reviews as well, one of the things I read was that they said it kind of reduced women. And I find it interesting when men decide what is patronizing to women particularly. And this was a male reviewer. I think they thought it reduced women to this kind of, you know, syrupy stereotype of people who are just. Just convinced that marriage and babies are the end game. And I read that, and it really kind of rankled. Cause I was like, yeah, but kind of marriage and babies, for a lot of us, actually are end game. I mean, not endgame, but biology's still a thing. We are still procreating, like it or not.

[Caroline]

Like.

[Lauren Bravo]

And I liked the fact that Jennifer Aniston's character ultimately wasn't shamed for saying, no, that is what I want. I'm sorry. I do want that. I want that commitment from you. I want to kind of know that that's.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And as she says, and it's like our very real fear. It's like, you know, she's like bullshit to everybody. They don't need this and they love their partner, but then marry some 24 year old at the gym.

[Lauren Bravo]

100%. Yeah. Yeah. It is real. She's living in the real world.

[Caroline]

There's really almost nothing in this movie, apart from some of the beats with Justin Long and Jennifer Goodwin, that, like, doesn't ring very true to me in some way or another, you know?

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, yeah, that's it. And I think that's maybe why people find it a little bit uncomfortable because if they're used to really kind of capital R romance where all of the sort of concerns of real life can just be swept away.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

This is not that film. No, this is a film that says, yeah, people are a bit fucked up and society's a bit shit and we've.

[Caroline]

Kind of destroyed romance.

[Lauren Bravo]

We've kind of destroyed romance. And sometimes you're taking a chance with someone that you don't know you're gonna be with forever, but you're giving it a bloody good go.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

I respect it for that.

[Caroline]

I love it. So do you want to go through all the storylines, though? I'm worried that we've already jumped to the end with Jen and Ben. Other Jen and Ben. So Ginnifer Goodwin, let's start with her. Because she is the sort of the mother tree where all the saplings come from.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. She's the sun around which everybody orbits.

[Caroline]

Exactly. And so she has a vicious smell of want, despite being the most beautiful girl in the world. And also has been on every single Pinterest board named Bob Inspo ever.

[Lauren Bravo]

I am.

[Caroline]

Do you have Bob Inspo's she's been pinned to.

[Lauren Bravo]

I'm having my hair cut after this and there is a genuine fear that I'm gonna go in there and ask for a Ginnifer Goodwin Circuit 2009. Because it's perfect.

[Caroline]

It's so gorgeous. Except when she does it, you know what I mean? When she styles it, it's like a terrible flapper look. But when it's just sort of like curling slightly around her delicious face, when.

[Lauren Bravo]

There'S that scene where she comes into the office and they're all like, hey, what's up with your hair? And it's like, no, that's the best it looks. Yeah.

[Caroline]

When she goes, love it.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's old. It's good.

[Caroline]

It's good.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's got muffin in it. Yeah. So she has been on this date with estate agent man who's played by.

[Caroline]

Kevin Connelly, who people who remember the early noughties will remember from Entourage.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, I was gonna say, should I know him? I don't know him.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

I've never watched Entourage again. Yes.

[Caroline]

If you've ever had a boyfriend who liked Entourage, you'll know that he's from Entourage.

[Lauren Bravo]

There's a lot of Short King energy in this film as well. Tons.

[Caroline]

Primarily Short King.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. I wrote down at one point this film's message is, short men are good, tall men are bad. But then that's not true because Ben ultimately good. Very tall, tall, tall drink of water. But yeah, there's something about Justin Long who. That really set a type for me. I think there's something about the kind of dark haired, short legged, slightly patronizing opinions. Very much kind of in the Jack Burger mold.

[Caroline]

Yes. It makes a lot of sense that they were. When they. So what happens with Jennifer Goodwin? She goes on a date with this guy who's played by Kevin Connolly. That goes really badly. She kind of makes a tit of herself. She doesn't, as we see from the beginning, she doesn't really connect with him, but she's obsessed with the idea of him.

[Lauren Bravo]

Him wanting her.

[Caroline]

Wanting her. And she sort. There's this really, really great comedy scene where she goes to a bar where she thinks he's going to be. Cause he mentions that he goes there a lot. Starts talking to Justin Long. It turns out that Justin Long is both the owner, manager of this bar and also childhood friends with Kevin Connelly's character. And she says, I wanted to return his pen. And then it's a dentist's pen. And he goes, that's not his dentist. And then she says, how do you know? Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, really? Who is.

[Caroline]

Who is my dad.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, God. And it's horrible the way that her walls.

[Caroline]

So well scripted.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, it's brilliant. And the way that she looks. She realizes she's been found out. And there's just this moment. And then she goes, hi, I'm Gigi. I went on a date with Connor a week ago and he hasn't called me. And it. Oh, it's just heartbreaking.

[Caroline]

And that begins with Justin Long's sort of position as the Jack Burger of the piece. Like that dialogue is given to him and it makes sense why you would cast. Because they kind of. He sort of looks like Jack Berger, Ron Livingston's sort of ugly younger brother.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. And I also think it says a lot about how this is a film really for women, that it has both Bradley Cooper and Ben Affleck in it.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

But the guy you're Meant to fancy is Justin Long.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

Do you know what I mean?

[Caroline]

Yeah. Okay. You fancy Justin Long? I really do. I go back and forth, but carry on.

[Lauren Bravo]

I really do. It's. I don't know. My first university boyfriend was very much in the Justin Long kind of mold. Again, being kind of a slightly short, quiet, angry kind of beta male with like, a lot of, like, patronizing opinions, you know, Very keen on being your sort of guru for the world, your guide through kind of adult life. Yes. And. Oh, I don't know. Yeah, I do. I do. There's something about it. He's got sort of terrier energy.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Terrier energy, but also, like big doll eyes.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

You know? Cause he's, like, ugly like a boy, but pretty like a girl.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. 100%. Yeah. And he's an indie boy. Come on. It was 2009. We were kind of just coming the back of that, you know, he probably owns a leather biker jacket and a pair of winkle pickers in the back of a wardrobe.

[Caroline]

Yeah. It's that. It's hard to look at, isn't it? Because you're all your. Everything you fell for is just. Again, same with Jack Berger. Everything that you once fell for and probably would fall for again, were you released on the market, is sort of epitomized by this character. So he is, like, quite cruel to her, I think. I mean, it's sort of framed as harsh love, or what's it called? Tough love. Yeah, tough love. The famous Braves. But there's a scene where she says this bit where she says, what? I'm just supposed to not go out with anyone who doesn't like me?

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And he goes, yeah, that's it. I was like, oh, people still.

[Lauren Bravo]

There won't be anyone left. Oh, God.

[Caroline]

But people still need to hear that.

[Lauren Bravo]

Well, people really do. And the point is, her friends are not gonna give her that, you know, because her friends are performing the very well rehearsed routine of Here are all the spurious reasons we can come up with why this guy might not be messaging you. And they've got the stories, and it's a lot about the mythology and the law, which also. Sex and the City does very well of someone always has a friend who had a friend.

[Caroline]

Yes. Urban relationship myth.

[Lauren Bravo]

Urban relationship myth in the brain. Yeah. He did this exact thing, and he was a complete fuckwit at the beginning, and he never messaged and he cheated on you and whatever. Whatever. And then a year later, he turns up on your doorstep and girlfriend, I.

[Caroline]

Tell this story to People I tell this story about, like, how for the first six months of our relationship, gal was a pain in the ass and never turned up and, like, stood me up on various dates and said he would help me move and then slept through moving day and, like, all this stuff. And then, like, how I had. We had this confrontation, and then everything changed after that. I have been that girl in the advertising office being like, don't worry. I do it too.

[Lauren Bravo]

I do it, too. Matt and I both know there was a point after we'd been going out for about two or three months where he nearly ended it with me, and I sensed it. And then. But also, I kind of think that's what happened.

[Caroline]

What happened.

[Lauren Bravo]

He ultimately didn't, and then was fine.

[Caroline]

Great story.

[Lauren Bravo]

But you know what? And this goes back to the realism. I also think that for the first, like, maybe year of a relationship, there is always a shifting seesaw of power. There is always one of you that is a bit more into it the other, and then it kind of switches. And then it switches until you reach an equilibrium. And I just think that's normal. And I think that expecting, you know, we have been sold this myth that you meet someone and it's lightning bolts from the sky, and you're immediately both head over heels, and that's it. And maybe that happens for some people. Wonderful.

[Caroline]

But it often happens that there's lightning bolts in the sky and there's great chemistry. And then immediately, you know, six weeks after the chemistry has established itself, everyone is paranoid that they are too a slave to the chemistry of the other person.

[Lauren Bravo]

So then they start pulling back a little bit. And also, you're influenced by what society's telling you. And maybe your friends are saying, oh, my God, you're going for it too quickly, or like, oh, that's a red flag, and you hadn't noticed it. You know, there's so many other influences we don't love in a vacuum. And I think that's what this film does very well.

[Caroline]

Yeah, that's what the film's about.

[Lauren Bravo]

I think immediately she's in the office. By the way, what job is it they do? Because they're writing about spice blends, but they're wearing suits. It's meant to be advertising.

[Caroline]

It's advertising, I think.

[Lauren Bravo]

Okay.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

For some sort of, like, flavored coffee is. That's my best guess.

[Caroline]

Yeah, it's. The client is Nespresso. I think that's the.

[Lauren Bravo]

Cool.

[Caroline]

Cool.

[Lauren Bravo]

Okay, good.

[Caroline]

It's a nice office.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, I love it.

[Caroline]

I love the orange walls.

[Lauren Bravo]

Absolutely wonderful.

[Caroline]

It's the exact orange I'm looking at for my Renault at the moment. Is it?

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, can we talk? I mean, renovation popping all over the place.

[Caroline]

Okay, so they work in this advertising office. And the three women who I think it's three of them who work there are Jennifer Aniston, who is in a seven year long relationship with Ben Affleck, where they are deeply in love. And they collect some really good arts.

[Lauren Bravo]

Very bad arts, which is the same.

[Caroline]

With any art collection. And they have a wonderful, equitable, gorgeous relationship where they're mad about each other, but he doesn't believe in marriage. And Jennifer Connelly, who has been married to her university sweetheart, Bradley Cooper, who begins the movie. It's so interesting.

[Lauren Bravo]

God, she deserved an Oscar for this film. She's so good.

[Caroline]

She is so good.

[Lauren Bravo]

It feels like she's acting in an entirely different film. But it's beautiful. Like it's so subtle. It's so heartbreaking. I had only ever seen her in Labyrinth, the same Requiem for a Dream.

[Caroline]

Oh, yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

And this. So the woman's got range.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah. I feel like Jennifer Connelly, like she's an actress who often slides into wife of genius. Wife of period genius.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. Cause she's got straight hair.

[Caroline]

Yes. I feel like she played Paul Bettany's wife when he was Darwin in something.

[Lauren Bravo]

She is Paul Bettany's wife.

[Caroline]

Maybe that's what I'm thinking of.

[Lauren Bravo]

I mean, I don't know if they're still together, but she definitely was at some point. Paul Bettany's wife. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

She sort of got lost in the mix a bit. And like watching this movie, I was like, I just kept saying, she's so good, she's so good.

[Lauren Bravo]

And you feel like you know her. I also think that this is maybe the last time we saw thin lipped women on screen.

[Caroline]

Correct.

[Lauren Bravo]

Very 2009. I was like both the Jennifers and the Jennifer thin lips. That representation has gone in the age of fillers.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah. Scarlett Johansson's mouth used to be a natural wonder of the world. And now it's like you can't leave the house without seeing a Scarlet Every.

[Lauren Bravo]

Woman on the high street. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the. I think I said this to you last night, but it is just a reinvention of the kind of Marilyn Jackie Dichotomy as well. It's very kind of obvious.

[Caroline]

But I mean, it's not obvious. Cause I'd never seen it before and I've seen this film 40 times. It is A Marilyn and Jackie.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Got this straight haired, dark haired woman who's very. She's intense and she's quite high maintenance. She's quite highly strung.

[Caroline]

But also like gentle and sweet.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, very gentle and sweet and vulnerable. And she's, you know, they're not at a point in their relationship where she's the sex kitten anymore because of course she isn't. That's fine. They've been together since college. You know, they're doing a Renault.

[Caroline]

I get the impression they're in their late 30s.

[Lauren Bravo]

It feels that. I mean, do you know what the depressing thing is? They're probably meant to be like 31 or something, but I've had 36 to 38. I completely agree. Yeah. They feel completely in my stage of life.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

I'm also doing a Renault right now.

[Caroline]

I'm also doing a Renault scene.

[Lauren Bravo]

Let's not. If we open that can of worms, this will become a Renault podcast. But yeah, them in Home Depot, you know, American B and Q with their little trolley debating laminate versus real wood flooring. And she's got a gilet on and bunches. And it's. Yeah, she's very Monica Geller coded as well. I feel like you really recognize that as a type.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

And then you've got Scarlett Johansson, who. So Bradley Cooper is married to Jennifer Connelly. He meets her in the supermarket.

[Caroline]

Yes. Very cute. Meet cute.

[Lauren Bravo]

Very cute. Meet cute. Particularly aided by the like serious faced checkout lady.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

Who I think was credited on Amazon prime as like serious face checkout lady. And they have this meet cute. And she's this like aspiring singer and he's, you know, anywhere, flirting. He knows some guy in his office, never clear what he does, that deals with music clients and may have some contracts for her.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

And then they start this torturous kind of, oh, I can't have an affair, I'm married. You know, don't do this. I'm not that guy. Except he clearly is that guy. And ultimately they do.

[Caroline]

Yeah. What I find fascinating about the. Because also it's like the. Jennifer Connelly and Jennifer Aniston are clearly best friends for a long time and work in the same office together. So their partners are really good friends. And so it is kind of slightly framed. There's a really interesting misdirect happening here that is like more complicated than the film appears of like Ben Affleck being kind of a shit for not marrying the love of his life. And Bradley Cooper set up very wholesomely from the very Beginning of being like, I am polite to the girl in the line. And I say from the absolute jump, I'm not taking your number. That is not appropriate for me to be.

[Lauren Bravo]

He's a wife guy.

[Caroline]

He is very much a wife guy, but, like, the way then he, you know, he. What's an extra step? Then she calls him, he hangs up on her. And it's like, exactly how you would want your husband to behave. Right. When you're not watching and he's being.

[Lauren Bravo]

Pursued by Scarlet, your hunter.

[Caroline]

Yeah, exactly. And then he caves. And by the point that he decides he's going to cave, he becomes one of those villainous individuals I've ever seen on screen, but also so believable.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, 100%. 100% is this, you know, he cannot give. Like, he cannot resist temptation. It's almost like, well, you know, she knocked three times, and therefore I must now.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

And he also. I think the thing I really can't forgive him for is when he has that little speech where he kind of says, oh, you know, we've been together since college, and you're an asshole if you date a girl for too long and you don't marry her. And she gave me an ultimatum and said, you know, either we get married or we split up. And so I married her. And it's this whole, like, you know, aren't I a good guy? Poor little me, I got kind of harangued into marriage by my.

[Caroline]

And now I am nobly sort of facing my responsibilities. Though I would love to shag you, like, 100.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's very. Kind of like something from a. I don't know.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

An 18th century novel. You know, we kissed at a party, we held hands at a dance.

[Caroline]

Ruin her public standing.

[Lauren Bravo]

Exactly, exactly. Therefore, I must marry her. It's very. That.

[Caroline]

And whenever the very small moments that you see him and Jennifer Connelly together, it's like that doesn't map at all. And you know he's lying. But you also know that it's a lie he's told to Scarlett Johansson and immediately starts selling himself. And he's like. And then suddenly he's saying, like, I never wanted to get married. It's like, I don't think that's true.

[Lauren Bravo]

I don't think that's true at all. No, I think he just kind of went, sure, sure, sure. That's what you do. We'll get married. He hadn't met Scarlett Johansson yet. Like, that's. Yeah. But again, you know, I think there's a lot of nuance There, I think it's interesting, and I think you do feel that pain for Jennifer Connelly as well, that she is maybe reckoning with the fact that she did marry the wrong guy ultimately.

[Caroline]

You know, like, they're so deep in that Renault. Yeah, she's so expensive, that Renault.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, God. Javier needs to be paid. Javier and his boys, they're good boys. They need to be paid.

[Caroline]

That exchange that she has with the Javier, which I think is played by Louise Guzman. Right?

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

Is fabulous in this role. So good. When they're talking about when she's accusing him of smoking, which. When I was watching it, I was like, is that something you can just do?

[Lauren Bravo]

Like, I mean, my builders are smoking. It never occurred to me to tell them they couldn't.

[Caroline]

Is that like a relatable American thing or is that like, she's uptight and we're showing that she's uptight?

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, I think it's the second. I think she's. Yeah, I think it's part of her character. And she says, doesn't she, that her dad died of lung cancer. She's very anti smoking. And as a. I kind of get this because as a child, I was so scared of smoking that I went for a playdate at a friend's house and I saw her mum smoking in the kitchen. I cried and had to be taken home. And that came from nowhere. It wasn't like my parents had told me smoking is bad or anything. I think it was literally, I just thought that only nasty people spoke. I don't know.

[Caroline]

But, yeah, something on fire up to your body. It's, like, quite weird. It's quite weird. Someone who's been a long time. It's quite a weird thing to do. Satanic, but. So the kind of the. Is Bradley Cooper secretly smoking and is Bradley Cooper having an affair? Become these sort of twin concerns of her that drives her quietly mad.

[Lauren Bravo]

And ultimately, it's the discovery of the cigarettes, not the discovery of the affair, that pushes her. So she, you know, he confesses that he's cheated when they're in American B and Q. And that's heartbreaking because she just absorbs it. She just swallows it down.

[Caroline]

Very Jackie.

[Lauren Bravo]

Very Jackie. She swallows it down and just kind of says, well, I can't even remember. She sort of says. She's like, well, what are we gonna do? Do you wanna.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And he's like. I'm like, what do you mean? He kind of thought that by telling her this was. Yes. And she's like, well, do you wanna fight for us. And he's like, yes, sure, of course.

[Lauren Bravo]

Cause I'm a good guy. Yes, I do. And she tells herself, well, he was honest. You know, he didn't lie. He kind of confessed it. And ultimately, we're in the middle of a very big reno, and she carries on. But then her breaking point comes when she discovers this packet of cigarettes in his pocket. And it's such a beautiful scene. Can we talk about when she smashes the mirror and she goes. And, you know, it feels like probably years of. Years of kind of tension building up that has all been off screen that we've not seen of their relationship becoming this kind of slightly stale, slightly sexless, slightly kind of, you know, the affection's gone, you know, long before he kind of started the affair. And all of that just bursts out in this moment where she takes this mirror, this incredibly 2009 mirror with so.

[Caroline]

TK Maxx, that moment, so TK Maxx.

[Lauren Bravo]

With, like, some swirly, kind of swirly metal around it, smashes it on the floor. And then immediately, she takes one deep breath and immediately walks kind of out of shot and comes back with a broom and immediately starts sweeping it up.

[Caroline]

And crying while she's sweeping.

[Lauren Bravo]

And it's so real. I was talking to my friend Amy. Amy Jones. Friend of the pod.

[Caroline]

Friend of the pod. It's the Chocolat episode.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. Who also loves this film. We're talking about it. And she said, that is exactly how women have to feel things. And it really got me. I was like, yeah, that is.

[Caroline]

What do you mean? Say more.

[Lauren Bravo]

As in, there are so many points in your life where you cannot be allowed to explode, you cannot be allowed to melt down, or you do, but you've got to clean it up afterwards.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

Because you're the one holding everything together. And I really. And I know that no one in this film is a mother, but there is definitely part of the mother, part of me that was like, oh, God, yeah. Like, if you want to just completely lose your shit and smash some stuff.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

No one's cleaning it up afterwards but you. So a lot of the time, you just don't. You hold onto it, you know, you keep it down. Like, it's beautiful. It's so well acted.

[Caroline]

She's so good in this. Like, I hope people tell her that.

[Lauren Bravo]

If we ever meet her, if anyone listening knows Jennifer Connelly.

[Caroline]

So we know that we think that it is a tour de force.

[Lauren Bravo]

It is such a great performance. Also, Jennifer Aniston, I have to say, is brilliant in this, but I Mean, of course, she's always brilliant, but she's brilliant in this. She's so subtle and funny, but also kind of. It's nice seeing her in a post Friends era to be playing this kind of very slightly more careworn Rachel Green. You know, it's sort of.

[Caroline]

Yeah, that is the word for it. Careworn.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. And her relationship with her sisters is beautiful.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And her dad, Kris Kristofferson.

[Lauren Bravo]

That yellow stuff is not hot mustard. It's the crab's heptal pancreas. That line. That line plays in my head.

[Caroline]

There are some lines in this movie a bit where, like, her sisters are comforting her about her being single again. She's like, look at Al Pacino. Never been married. Happy as a clam. There's so many good bits in this movie. But I also think I'd like to, while we're on Jennifer Aniston, talk about. Because I think the ensembleness of this ensemble movie and this was like, maybe just before the kind of. I think love actually started the trend.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And, you know, someone said this to me the other day about book covers where they were saying, you always want to be the second in a trend. Being the fourth or fifth is embarrassing, but being the second in a trend being the person who noticed something was good and copied it and did it better, maybe. And did it better, maybe. Yeah. Which we think that maybe they did because, like, so love actually ensemble cast. And, you know, I think something about the Britishness of love actually. It's like, oh, we know it's Emma Thompson, but we're not gonna make too big a fuss. Yeah, yeah. Whereas he's just not that into you. It's like every time a new actor appears on screen, the camera lingers for five seconds too long, being like, yep, that's really Drew Barrymore. You bet.

[Lauren Bravo]

We got them.

[Caroline]

And it's like, literally, if you watch it again, you're like, there's like, just. It hangs too long on every star when you first see them. Yeah. You're never gonna believe it, but we talked to Drew's agent. She's actually a producer. We talked to Jen.

[Lauren Bravo]

She gave us, like, a week of filming.

[Caroline]

She is a doll.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she is. Because also, she kind of lifts right out of this film. But I'm so happy she's there. Of course. I'm such a treat. She's such a delight. Also, Busy Phillips.

[Caroline]

I know.

[Lauren Bravo]

Very lovely Little Busy Phillips cameo. Yes.

[Caroline]

Who I think is married to one of the writers.

[Lauren Bravo]

Did not know that at the Time.

[Caroline]

Mark Silverstein was married to him. But I think so the whole thing of, like, the star power of the starry ensemble cast is so unsubtle. But I think as well, what makes it so good is because all of the. Most of the casting interacts so well with what we know about those actors already and telegraphs into the real world. Like the line where, like, so obviously. So Jenna Master's storyline, as we said, in a long relationship, breaks up with him because he won't marry her. And she says at her, you know, sister's wedding, where she is bridesmaids, she says almost to the camera, I've had breakups before. It's okay. I'm good at it.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yes.

[Caroline]

We're like, we know, Jen. We know.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, We've lived it with her.

[Caroline]

We've lived it with her. I think Anne Helen Peterson said this on our podcast the other day, and it really, like, wow, I totally forgot about this. But there was a moment where she, Jennifer Aniston, was interviewed about Angela Jolie and Brad Pitt after they had done the big spread for Mr. And Mrs. Smith, where they're, like, crawling all over each other. And it had just been announced and it was all just, God. Those who were there, remember.

[Lauren Bravo]

We do.

[Caroline]

Those who know, know. And the Gen Zs can look up the sacred texts. But they interviewed her about this very, you know, splashy spread they did. And this very splashy. They were just after the divorce announcement, and she said, I think there's a sensitivity chip missing there, which is so.

[Lauren Bravo]

Perfect way of phrasing it. The dignity coming off that woman that's sluicing off her. Sluicing off her. And that is very much what I came back to again and again with the gens in this film. The dignity, this quiet dignity that they both have. This, like, I. It's kind of ultimately a film about these brilliant, dignified women and, like, awful men and the brilliant, dignified women who try to love them, you know, and that's it. And whether they end up married on a boat or in a new apartment hanging another ugly mirror, the fact that what they both come out with, the victory for them is the dignity. It's not the relationship, relationship or otherwise.

[Caroline]

Yeah, it is the dignity. You're so right.

[Lauren Bravo]

Este momento de horar Visita Tutienda Verizon, Iora Enostros planes Vas vajos Alinter Camier Telephonos, the Apple, Samsung or Google and Qual Care Condition Solo and Verizon. Wow.

[Caroline]

What's up? I just bought and financed a car through Carvana in minutes. You, the person who agonized four weeks over whether to paint your walls eggshell or off white, bought and financed a car in minutes. They made it easy. Transparent terms, customizable down and monthly. Didn't even have to do any paperwork. Wow. Hey, have you checked out that spreadsheet I sent you for our dinner?

[Lauren Bravo]

Options finance your car with Carvana and experience total control. Financing subject to credit approval. Can I ask, what do you feel about the Scarlett Johansson character?

[Caroline]

I think it is the most beautiful she's ever looked. Oh, my God, that body makes me feel like a straight man. A disgusting straight man.

[Lauren Bravo]

The bit in the office and when she, when her tit comes out of.

[Caroline]

She's wearing the, the, the. The 50 sundress and the, the pink slip.

[Lauren Bravo]

Slip underneath it and then.

[Caroline]

And he like lifts the boob out of the slip and the bra and it's just like the most beautiful boobs ever made.

[Lauren Bravo]

She's so juicy in that.

[Caroline]

So juicy. Like the character. I don't. Here's something I'm gonna say.

[Lauren Bravo]

Hit me.

[Caroline]

I have never been quite sure how good Scarlett Johansson actually is at acting. Yeah, I like a lot of things that Scarlett Johansson has done because she has great taste and I think she inspires people. I think she's a great muse. Do you know what I mean?

[Lauren Bravo]

This is getting very beautiful gowns. Beautiful gowns, beautiful gowns, great gowns, beautiful gown.

[Caroline]

But like, when have you ever seen Scarlett Johnson really acting her ass off?

[Lauren Bravo]

I can answer that.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Lauren Bravo]

Jojo Rabbit, have you seen that?

[Caroline]

No, I have not seen that.

[Lauren Bravo]

Okay, okay. In that. She's bloody good.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Lauren Bravo]

Bloody good. But I also wonder if she's one of those actors that just had to get a bit older and a bit less of a siren, you know, which is a sad state of affairs that we live in. But, you know, maybe she kind of just had to age slightly out of the bombshell category, start playing the mothers and now she gets to be brilliant. I don't know.

[Caroline]

I'm curious because, like, when I kind of think of her career next to her contemporaries, we all remember the Hathaway hate when like Anne Hathaway was sort of just. Everyone decided like, no, we are trying too hard.

[Lauren Bravo]

She was too earnest, she was too wide eyed.

[Caroline]

And that never really came for Scarlett Johansson. I think the most controversy she's ever had as an actor is when she sort of made some quite insensitive comments about playing a trans character that she then walked back and she said something like If I can. I'll play a tree if I want to.

[Lauren Bravo]

That.

[Caroline]

Yeah. People got upset with her about that. And then I think. But I think it sort of rightly. And then I think it sort of blew over pretty quickly. But when I think of, like, how the cruelty Anne Hathaway has faced. And that woman could act the ass off of Sky. She's so gifted. She's unbelievable.

[Lauren Bravo]

Do you think it was partly because in the early days of Anne Hathaway's career, we were constantly being told that she was not attracted because they'd fluffed her hair up a bit and put some glasses on her. And the kind of deception, you know, it was like we were treated like idiots because we were watching these films going, but she's clearly beautiful, whereas we never had that with Scarlett Johansson because she was just always playing a gorgeous character. I don't know.

[Caroline]

Yeah. I think there is something slightly revolting to us about someone who's both trying and precious about their own trying. And I think that had a lot to do with the Les Mis press campaign.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. The woman shaved her head. Come on.

[Caroline]

Come on. On screen. Anyway, that's enough about that. But it goes back to Scarlett Johansson, the character.

[Lauren Bravo]

Is she kind of. Is she being villainized as the other woman? I don't know. But again, I think it's quite nuanced. Maybe I'm giving it more credit than it deserves. But when she has the conversation with her friend Drew Barrymore.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

And her friend Drew Barrymore tells her the story again, the mythologies, the lore of some guy her dad worked with who had a lovely wife. And then one day, at a church event, crucially, crucially met some woman, and it was like the thunderbolt from the blue. He'd never felt anything like it before. That was his true love. And she has this line where she's like, what if you meet the love of your life, but you already married someone else? And that is the thing that gives Scarlett Johansson permission. Go and phone Bradley Cooper. And, you know, again, I think we been. We've all been in those situations with friends where we're like, look, I know what you're doing is not morally great.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

But also, ultimately, you only get one life. You kind of gotta. You gotta pursue your dreams, you know?

[Caroline]

Well, my team is losing, but I'm. This is still my team.

[Lauren Bravo]

Right.

[Caroline]

Like, I've got. I know someone who's having an affair, who's the other woman in an affair right now, and I'm supporting that somehow.

[Lauren Bravo]

The mic's off. I know, I need those details.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

But. And again, I think once you get into your 30s, life does get more complicated. It's not playground anymore. You do know friends that are making kind of morally questionable decisions, but ultimately everyone's still kind of just trying to find their happiness, however that may.

[Caroline]

Look.

[Lauren Bravo]

And I don't know, I mean. And ultimately, look, she doesn't get a happy ending. She has to go backpacking around India to find her. Has to.

[Caroline]

What I do like about her storyline is the way it intersects with the Kevin Connelly storyline.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

So the whole thing is that, like, Kevin Connelly is on his first date with Gigi or his only date with Gigi, and then, like, he walks away from her. That was great. She walks away being like, wow, we're gonna get married. She walks away. He walks away immediately calls Scarlett Johansson, asks if he can come over, and she's like, no. And the kind of relationship there is, one that feels actually more recognizable today than I think it probably was back then, which is that they've been on a few dates before, they definitely had sex, but it has sort of like she shifted the gear into, like, I like having you around. It's the ultimate friend zone.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's situationship, isn't it? Before we had that term. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. She kind of likes keeping him on the end of a thread, like, for when she needs a bit of validation. And, of course, that's exactly what she does. So when Bradley Cooper humiliates her by having sex with his wife in his office while Scarlett Johansson is locked in a cupboard.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Lauren Bravo]

Horrendous.

[Caroline]

Can we talk about that scene for a second? Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

You don't think they're gonna go there?

[Caroline]

You don't think they're gonna go there. You think he's gonna, like, do the very American comedy thing of being like, see you later, babe. Oh, can't wait to see you at the hotel. Take my wallet. But no, he fully fucks his wife while his mistress is in the stationery.

[Lauren Bravo]

Cupboard and sends her home giggling. And there's a moment where she turns around in the doorway and kind of says, I love you with a question mark at the end. And that is heartbreaking. And then Scarlett, and also, thank God, again, dignity. Scarlett Hansen. That is where she draws the line. She comes out, she's fuming at him.

[Caroline]

She screams, you will never touch me again.

[Lauren Bravo]

And, you know. And again, you're cheering for her in that moment because she could have carried on, like, you know, she could have just kind of gone, well, I'M fucking to marry guys is what happens. But she didn't.

[Caroline]

The scene where you don't think they're going to go there and then they go there. I was like, oh, this is like. It really made me think, you know how like every beloved movie, which this is not. It's only beloved by you and I.

[Lauren Bravo]

You know, I don't Jerry.

[Caroline]

That they're like, oh, they're, they're. It's in talks to be in a 10 part series in Netflix kind of thing. It's like they want to stretch everything out and make everything bigger and most of it doesn't need it. Like we don't need a clueless TV show or whatever. But what I think this actually would benefit from is like a proper dramedy, like treatment that is longer and takes all these storylines and follows them over over a season kind of thing that is like, that has the same kind of tonal world as maybe like the White Lotus or Girls, where it's like, this is interesting relationship dynamics where things get tough and difficult. And like that really strikes me as like a episode six, kind of like, oh, fuck, they went there and this is gonna be a whole thing.

[Lauren Bravo]

Rather than we would actually see the whole scene.

[Caroline]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we'd see. And it would be great.

[Lauren Bravo]

We would be in that cupboard with Scarlet kind of.

[Caroline]

Yeah, right. We would be there. Right.

[Lauren Bravo]

Living it in agony.

[Caroline]

And I think that like, there is so much more space now. I think the only place we were getting proper relationship content really in 2009 was in shows that had already finished, which was Sex and the City or rom coms that were trying to shove interesting nuanced discussions into canisters that weren't ready to hold them, I guess, you know. And now we actually have the space for dramedy.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, you're right.

[Caroline]

It would be like a really good show. I think it would.

[Lauren Bravo]

I want to watch that. Maybe I want to write that with you.

[Caroline]

Maybe.

[Lauren Bravo]

Okay. I mean, you're kind of busy in that on that score at the moment. But.

[Caroline]

But after that we pitched through.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. When you got a window, could we make. Do we make it British anyway, it's. Or Irish. It's an interesting question.

[Caroline]

The thing is, sometimes we talk about ideas on this podcast and people do get in touch. You got the platform.

[Lauren Bravo]

All right. Putting it out there. So that is the line she draws. And then immediately what she does is. Is called Kevin Connolly.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

Because he's her fallback. And she's been, you know, her ego is bruised. She's feeling really broken. She knows that this guy adores her and would be with her in a heartbeat. And so for a little while, she kind of plays house with him. Like, literally.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

Goes to this house that he's thinking of buying for the both of them.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Gorgeous house.

[Lauren Bravo]

Gorgeous house. Freaks. Also nice in an American film to see, like, terraced properties.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

Do you know what I mean? Kind of small houses. I kind of like that. It was in Baltimore and it's not. Not LA and everything.

[Caroline]

Like Steiner home.

[Lauren Bravo]

Kind of sprawling, light split level, you know, colonial mansions.

[Caroline]

I wonder why it's in Baltimore.

[Lauren Bravo]

I don't know. Why did we still have a moment?

[Caroline]

I don't know.

[Lauren Bravo]

It was around the same time as Hasbro. Like the move. The Hairspray musical. The Wire. Yes. Do you think when you think of.

[Caroline]

The great Baltimore art, you think the Wire, you think Hairspray. And of course, you think he's just not that. Isn't he?

[Lauren Bravo]

Do you think it was the kind of American equivalent of when they had to start filming everything in Leeds and Manchester because of the BBC? Yeah. It all just got too London centric. Do you think everything was too New York centric.

[Caroline]

And so I don't think Americans think that way. I would love to know.

[Lauren Bravo]

But it's cool. It kind of makes me go. I want to go to Baltimore.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

It kind of feels like the Bristol of America, you know, I'm like, these people are interesting. They're different. They're living quite cool lives. They're not in London anyway. And she kind of freaks out over an ironing board, and.

[Caroline]

Which I just want to point out, is a reference, I'm pretty sure, to Ghost World, if you know that movie at all.

[Lauren Bravo]

I do. I can't. I haven't seen it in years.

[Caroline]

It must be a reference. It made me so excited because there's a whole thing where the Ghost World is a great cult comedy thing about two girls who are two weirdo best friends from school, and they're gonna live together after school. And one of the girls isn't quite ready to grow up, and the other one, played by Scarlett Johansson, is she finds them a house and she finds, like, an ironing board Murphy bed situation that comes out of the wall completely from the. And the exact same frame is set up. The thing of her, like, smoothing the kind of thing in front of her and being like, ha. Kind of fun, you know, Love a little noise.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's lovely.

[Caroline]

And it took a lovely. Because that was a movie that has since gained a lot of cult status. But was totally flopped at the time.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, interesting.

[Caroline]

So, yeah, the noble flops of Scarlett Johansson.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. Steve Buscemi in a cardigan. That's correct. Oh, wow. Yeah. So she has her ironing board moment and then. And again. Dignity. Realizes, no, like, she can't go through the motions with poor Kevin Croydon. Dignity.

[Caroline]

But also kindness.

[Lauren Bravo]

Kindness, yeah. Ultimately she's like, let him go. I'm not feeling this. And thank God, because then he meets Drew Barrymore very conveniently and they fall in love.

[Caroline]

I feel like this was the beginning of Drew Barrymore sits too close to you and is too happy. Like, what we all forget is that Drew Barrymore for the first half of her career was a genuinely racy character. Like, she was like a child actor who'd been to rehab.

[Lauren Bravo]

She'd been a heroin addict at like 13 or whatever, hadn't she?

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then she became like a rehab person and then the development of her character post that is like she would make an excellent sentimental garbage guest.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, please get Drew.

[Caroline]

She's so happy.

[Lauren Bravo]

Like if we had re record all my episodes with Drew, I don't mind.

[Caroline]

She's just really earnest and like, loves to sit closely to people and touch people and like.

[Lauren Bravo]

And she produced this film as well.

[Caroline]

Yes, she did.

[Lauren Bravo]

Flower Films, her company.

[Caroline]

She was really one of the first actors to have a production company famously that that like, that was actually making great stuff and wasn't just a vanity project. And yeah, I think it's the beginning of the. The Drew Barrymore we know now.

[Lauren Bravo]

I was trying to remember whether this was. And I think it must have been post her going out with Fabrizio Moretti from the Strokes. Oh, wow. Yeah. So like not that long.

[Caroline]

And pre. Her going out with Justin Long.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, did not know.

[Caroline]

Oh my God. They were in a relationship for a really long time. They were in a rom com that I was one of the few rom coms or films that I had on my laptop when I moved to London. So I sort of watched it along. It was called Going the Distance.

[Lauren Bravo]

Have not seen adding it to my list.

[Caroline]

It's just about a long distance relationship between Drew Barrymore and Justin Long.

[Lauren Bravo]

Drew Barrymore is an absolute treat in this. But you're right. And she's. She almost feels like she could be the narrator or an angel. Or an angel. This is. Yeah, exactly that. She's a fairy godmother. She's kind of a Greek chorus. She's a sort of.

[Caroline]

She's the most easily liftable character.

[Lauren Bravo]

She's not Fully embedded. And it's almost like she is just given to Kevin Connelly as a little gift, as a kind of parting gift. It's like, thanks for playing Kevin. You didn't ultimately win this one. But here's a Drew Barrymore and it's lovely and I'm delighted.

[Caroline]

Something I really like about that end scene where it's that they have this. The whole kind of thing with Drew Barrymore's thing is that she's an ad salesman for the Baltimore Blade, which I believe is a queer paper.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, okay. I didn't get that, but yeah, that makes sense.

[Caroline]

Yeah. So she's like the ad sales girl.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And she has this relationship. She has many different digital relationships with many different men, none of whom she ever meets, which there's a monologue that feels very of today.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, the portals. Checking or running around the Internet checking.

[Caroline]

All these different portals for you to be rejected in. Yeah, it's very sad. Very, very sad. Very true, Very good. But like then she, she has a phone relationship with Kevin Conley because she's selling him his estate agent, whatever thing pages in the Baltimore Blade. And she sees him at a cafe and she picks up the phone and she says hi, like I'm looking at you right now. Haha. And then they have this cute one and she goes over to join him and he says, you look different to your voice. And she's like, what does that mean? Like, it's very real. It's very like, I don't really know. That's a compliment, but you've said it. And he's like, I don't really know either. But I was like, I do get it. I do get it. If you heard you Barrymore on the phone, you wouldn't think she was a sexy woman.

[Lauren Bravo]

No, no. And she's also called Mary. Mary. That is one character name I do remember, which, you know, lovely name, but for that age group. A Mary. You're not gonna.

[Caroline]

So sweet. If I met a three year old called Mary now, I'd be like, what romance, you know what I mean? But like a three year old, like a Mary who's also like a.

[Lauren Bravo]

Like a Gen X. Yeah, yeah, it's an odd one. Yeah. And it's a very cardigan y movie as well. And she's probably the most cardigan kind of character.

[Caroline]

Speaking of cardigan characters, can we talk about Jennifer Goodwin's collection of shrugs? A little shrugs at the party. Let's check back in with Jennifer Goodwin and Justin Long. Let's check back in their relationship Is developing.

[Lauren Bravo]

Okay. So she is now calling him for advice. She's calling him in the middle of dates. There's that scene where she's on a date, they're kissing. The guy kind of says, mid snog. I'm gonna be going out of town for a little while, so I might not be in touch. And she immediately breaks it off, makes an excuse about having diarrhea, goes to the bathroom, calls Justin Long and is like, you know, is this okay? Says he's going out of town. Justin Long, quite rightly, is like, where the hell's he going that he's not phone you?

[Caroline]

And he's going to, like, Philadelphia.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. But Justin Long is also in the midst of getting off with somebody and breaks off to answer her call.

[Caroline]

Justin Long is, for some reason, irresistible. Some of the most beautiful women in the world.

[Lauren Bravo]

Some of the most beautiful women in Baltimore. Yeah, I get it.

[Caroline]

I get it. He owns a cool bar. He's got cool bar.

[Lauren Bravo]

He owns a cool bar. And he's got kind of beta energy. Therefore, you think he's a really good.

[Caroline]

Guy, and he's gonna be, like, grateful that you shag him. But then the joke is, he shags everyone.

[Lauren Bravo]

He shags everyone Poor. How busy. Phillips is still waiting.

[Caroline]

I know.

[Lauren Bravo]

Anyway, and so then he does that, and then what is the moment that she kind of realized, oh, that's it. He says, look, you know, you're bumming me out now, Basically, I'm gonna. This is getting tragic. I'm gonna set you up on a date with my friend Bill. My friend Bill. Lovely Bill. And then Bill Mary Anna.

[Caroline]

It's very, like, first reader names, Very saints names.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

Very strange. Very 1950s. All these names.

[Lauren Bravo]

And then she turns up for the date with Bill. Justin Long turns up. No, Bill. Bill couldn't make it. She immediately thinks, oh, hang on. Yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

Like, do they have a great night just the two of them?

[Lauren Bravo]

They have a lovely night, just the two of them. You know, they're kind of. They're doing the fun bitchy thing of, like, people watching in the bar. They're decoding other people's behavior. He's drinking whiskey on the rocks again. Would have fallen for that. And she suddenly has this light bulb moment where she's like, oh, my God, he's into me. This is it. Like, he's into me. And I don't blame her. Oh, of course.

[Caroline]

All the signs are. It points that way. And she's. Huh? And then he invites her to his party, and then she's like, oh, you're in love with me.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yes. And then. Oh, my God. And then she meets the guy. She meets the guys that work with Mary at the queer paper who are like, so, you know, what's your doing? She's like, well, I'm actually kind of dating this guy whose house we're in who's completely ignoring me right now. And they plant this seed in her head of like, oh, so that's kind of awkward, isn't it? So you don't know if your hair is like a date or are you like co hosting?

[Caroline]

And she's like, yeah, co hosting. She very. Yes. And I'm definitely co hosting. Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yes, she does. Because that's. Her whole personality is ultimately. She's an optimist. She's a. Yes. And a. She's a. Like, I will take the tiniest kernel of anything. Are you familiar with the song Love Kernels from Crazy Ex Girlfriend?

[Caroline]

Oh, you are? Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

Very relevant to this as well. So that's a very funny song. All about taking the tiniest little droplets of anything, affection, whatever, from a guy and just embroidering them in your mind into. Oh, it must be. It's love.

[Caroline]

Cheat that woman for power.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, my God.

[Caroline]

Because crazy clever would be a great sentimental garbage. Except the thing is, it's too perfect. And it's all there.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's all there. It's too good.

[Caroline]

Yeah. It's like there's no stand gun it.

[Lauren Bravo]

No, unlike this. So then she decides she's co hosting the party with him. They have this brilliant scene where he's ultimately completely ignoring her and she is mixing up the dip, thanking people for coming.

[Caroline]

That bit. Her comic timing is so good. Where she's like. So he said to me, like I said, let's throw a party. Why not? As if she lives with him.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yes.

[Caroline]

Oh, God.

[Lauren Bravo]

And then it gets to the point where everyone else has gone home.

[Caroline]

She's tying up three in the morning, she's doing the recycling.

[Lauren Bravo]

She's tying up a bin bag. He is playing video games with this incredibly hot, like six foot tall, kind of six foot tall, incredibly long, mermaidy.

[Caroline]

Hair, like seven necklaces.

[Lauren Bravo]

Blake lively in a kind of wife beauty vest, sort of coded kind of woman. And. Oh, God. And she's still there because she thinks that this is the moment they're gonna get it on. And then thankfully, the heart woman just leaves, which is a little miracle.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

And then she just like launches herself on him and he says no. He's like, what have I been teaching you all this time? It's a real kind of Tyra Banks. I was rooting for you, isn't it? He's like, I'm just disappointed.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Because if she was a random woman or whatever, it's not like he's not attracted to her. She's not attractive. It's just like, you fucking idiot. Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

He's like, come on, you failed the last test.

[Caroline]

The last and most important test.

[Lauren Bravo]

But then it turns out she was right.

[Caroline]

He does.

[Lauren Bravo]

Because then.

[Caroline]

And then she has her little storm out. It's really heartbreaking because she's just like her little heart shaped face and she's just like, you know, like, basically, maybe I am a pathetic loser and maybe I do give too much or whatever, but I'm a lot closer to finding someone than you do in like, whatever. And we've heard so many versions in rom coms of like, oh, you seal yourself up and blah, blah, blah. And like it's always like, yeah, yeah, okay, get to the next bit already. But like, she's just really good, the way she does it.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, it's really good. And again, dignity, you know, like she still, she still leaves that building with some dignity despite everything.

[Caroline]

Thick old pair of tights.

[Lauren Bravo]

Thick old pair of tights. A little shrug and a waist belt. A little waist. Cinch a belt. Because this was the era where you would take a straight, A straight up and down dress, cinch it in with a belt where no belt should be, and give it an uneven hemline that you had to keep tugging back down over your ass.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Tights, brogues and a shrug.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, tights, brogues and a. Yeah, beautiful. And then, anyway, but then she does retain her dignity. She stays away from him. And he therefore goes out with Bill. Goes out with Bill, who looks lovely. And in a real, real version of this, she would end up with Bill.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

But then he has the time and the space to realize he's been an idiot. And that's why this film does ultimately redeem itself from the kind of accusations of it being quite misogynistic and kind of.

[Caroline]

Yeah, because it does. Sort of when you're in the first opening sort of half hour, you've been like, oh, so it's about like all these sort of like ugly short men holding all the cards over these amazing.

[Lauren Bravo]

Women who are so stupid they don't understand they're not desirable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. But then it redeems itself by actually the plot twist at the end. It's like, no, he was the stupid man. He didn't understand his Own feelings because he was so hung up on the kind of game playing. Yeah. And then it's just this. And then it's a very easy win. You know, he rocks up on the doorstep to the sounds of Keen somewhere. Only we know.

[Caroline]

It's so funny because the Keen is so funny.

[Lauren Bravo]

The Keen is hilarious. Maybe not to an American audience.

[Caroline]

It's so funny to me because the thing is, the scene is too long to really play, to have a needle drop like that. Do you know what I mean? When you have a rom com needle drop moment of a big song that has a swooping melody the way that song does, it's like, I love you. I don't, but I do. Ha ha. Kiss me. The end.

[Lauren Bravo]

The end.

[Caroline]

But, like, it's way too long. So just Keene just feels like it's like repeating on a jukebox or something. He's like, you're getting so much of Keene.

[Lauren Bravo]

And there's something I really love, which is American culture thinking, like, not understanding the kind of nuances of British music and therefore thinking that Keene were like a cool indie band when they were not cool. And, like, respect to Keen, don't get.

[Caroline]

Me wrong, Respect on Kean's name, some.

[Lauren Bravo]

Lovely tunes, but they weren't. You know, they were in the same camp as Snow Patrol. Like, they were not.

[Caroline]

They were not hip. Keen were basically the more commercial Coldplay.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yes, yes, they were the Coldplay that your mum was even more into. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And by 2009, do you know what I mean? I mean, Keen were doing their thing in, like, 2003, 2004. Cause I remember I used to work in a library with a woman that was very into Keen, and that was how I knew we wouldn't be friends. Wow. And this was.

[Caroline]

God, you know, like, Keon's wife is probably listening right now.

[Lauren Bravo]

I'm sorry, Keen. You're great guys, Keen and your wife. And I hope you're still getting royalties from this every time it's shown on ITV2.

[Caroline]

But I rented this movie last night. I'm sure they're getting some money from that.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. Oh, man. And so Keene is playing and he comes in and she stands her ground and is like, you know. And he's got the pen. He's doing the little pen bit. It's a little callback.

[Caroline]

Lovely.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's a great bit. And, you know, she does kind of resist at first, and she's like, no, but, you know, all this stuff you've been telling me. And then, what is it? She says, you know, I'm not. I'm not the exception. I'm the rule. This is what you've been telling me. Yeah. He puts his hands on her face. He holds her face in his hands and he says, you are my exception. Oh, man. Oh, it's. Look, it's cheap. It's cheap, but it's got me. I'm a puddle.

[Caroline]

Oh, my God, you're. You're so upset right now.

[Lauren Bravo]

I'm crying. It's just very hot.

[Caroline]

I'd like us to discuss these feelings more.

[Lauren Bravo]

I don't know. I don't know. It's. Oh, it wouldn't get me if it was Bradley Cooper or Ben Affleck or any other kind of stereotypical Hollywood hot man. It would not get me like that. But I think.

[Caroline]

Is it because it's Justin Long or because it's Jennifer Goodwin?

[Lauren Bravo]

It's both of it. It's both of them. It's both of them. It's because they are these kind of. In different ways, these kind of little terrier characters.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

And also, you know, look, it's the tractor beam thing. It's the kind of. He's turned his apparently irresistible magnetism that has been through all the women in Baltimore. He's turned it on her and he's seen her and like. Yeah, like I say, it's a slightly cheap trick, but it works for me.

[Caroline]

I would love. I'm sure Justin Long has a podcast. I'm not sure if you know this. Yeah, he has a very sweet little podcast with his brother. Were they. Maybe he will cross promotion where he interviews. He's married to Kate Bosworth now.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, I did.

[Caroline]

Magnetism is translating to some of the hottest women in the world. But I bet he was amazed to be cast in this.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. And I think that comes through as well. I think you are kind of cheering for him. Good for you. Good for you, mate. And it's, you know, look, it's not a progressive film by most standards we could use, but just a truthful one. It's a truthful one. And it had moved on just ever so slightly to a point where Justin Long could be the kind of. Of the romantic lead, the hot guy that you're sort of ultimately swooning over at the end. And Bradley Cooper ends up sad and alone. Great. In the supermarket.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Real tiki torch energy. Real 1-6-energy coming off of Bradley Cooper. Him and Dean from the Gilmore Girls.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[Caroline]

They do not believe that Trump lost that election. He's like, in the supermarket in that sort of end of. Sorry, Let me get to the vignettes in a minute because there's a really important scene that we have skipped over, which is Jennifer Aniston, newly single, goes to her sister's wedding in the coral dress.

[Lauren Bravo]

In the coral dress with the dog.

[Caroline]

Some fabulous sort of Rachel Green comic moments of, like, first of all, she has to walk a dog down the aisle. And she looks the most breathtaking a human being has ever looked. And someone just goes, beautiful dog. Which is how she feels. Like a beautiful dog.

[Lauren Bravo]

Beautiful dog.

[Caroline]

And then she is satisfied next to some, like, a setup at the. At the table with a Wiccan. With the Wiccan. And the dialogue is so good, and she plays it so well. She's like, so you must be Brian. And she goes, well. He goes like, well, yes and no. And she's like, how. No. Though I am a Wiccan and my Wiccan name is.

[Lauren Bravo]

What is it, brother? Phoenix, East Horse. I don't remember so many important things, but I've got that lodged in my brain for all eternity.

[Caroline]

So funny, because it's like. As well. They could just leave it there and, like, you know, snap away to something else, but it actually goes on. And, like, I don't know whether they're improvising or what, but, like, he goes, so let's begin. Stonehenge. I mean, they didn't have the tools to move those rocks there themselves. They were using something else. And she's like, aha. It's just. I love that little scene. But then she's dancing with her kind of like, old, nice cousin and sort of, like, making the best of it and making the best of how everyone is, you know, feels a bit sorry for her and, like, annoying jokes about her being a slightly older model or whatever, and awful. Awful. But being dignified, Crucially, being dignified.

[Lauren Bravo]

Always dignity.

[Caroline]

And then her father, who has said in a previous scene, you are my favorite daughter, which I find very odd. And also, sorry, I'm obsessed with Kris Krashofferson in this role. He says to her, something I find made me cry because it's sort of like. Like how my dad might talk to me.

[Lauren Bravo]

Is it about the arts camp? It's about the arts camp. Yeah. I can see that for you. Yeah.

[Caroline]

He's like, when everybody was going to summer camp at the Y, you rode away to an arts camp in the Berkshires to get all the information.

[Lauren Bravo]

You got accepted all on your own. You've always done things differently. Caroline.

[Caroline]

It's very My dad and Me just, like, shitting each other up.

[Lauren Bravo]

See, my dad would have been going, look, here's a catalogue for an arts camp in the Berkshires. Do you want to do it? And I'd be like, nah, nah.

[Caroline]

Kind of want to watch Buffy this summer.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, no, you're. It's very poignant.

[Caroline]

It's very beautiful. Anyway, he has a heart attack.

[Lauren Bravo]

He does.

[Caroline]

And then she. The wedding immediately goes from a wedding to, like, she. It's very. Actually, if you've ever seen a cat in a hot tin roof.

[Lauren Bravo]

No. No, I haven't. It's Elizabeth Taylor in the negligee.

[Caroline]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's all very like, oh. The Southern patriarch is dying and we're all gathering around to pick over his estate. And who loves him, really. It's very King Lear.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's very interesting. All the family have to descend on one house and apparently live there.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Which I really. It's never happened to me, but it feels really recognizable.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Of like. We're not adding any value, but we have to be. There's clearly a fortune to be picked up here somewhere. And we all have to act like. Be present and act like we're adding value when we are not. Absolutely.

[Lauren Bravo]

And be a unit kind of for each other. Even though there's nothing we can do for our ailing father.

[Caroline]

And we're not interested in doing anything for him either. Or for. Or for each other. And so a few of the guys are just, like, watching sports and getting taken.

[Lauren Bravo]

Going through his records.

[Caroline]

And going through his records. And then the girls, the other daughters are just kind of like, gabbing on the kitchen table. And Jennifer Aniston is the only person who's, like, actively engaged and caring for her father. And it's so eldest daughter.

[Lauren Bravo]

So I was just gonna say there is a big eldest daughter thing there, which, as an eldest daughter, does very much resonate.

[Caroline]

It's so something I would observe my sister doing.

[Lauren Bravo]

You'd be gabbing at the kitchen table while Gab goes through the record.

[Caroline]

I know. So me and my mum being like. I know. He's so cranky.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, man. And then. Yeah. And then it's like I've.

[Caroline]

I talk about this film very seldomly with people, but when I do, it's always about this scene.

[Lauren Bravo]

Interesting.

[Caroline]

Which is then she just. There's been a few days of this or whatever, she walks into the kitchen and Ben Affleck, her ex boyfriend, who's been living on his boat. I don't know why he has a boat is. Has cleaned the whole kitchen. And he's just.

[Lauren Bravo]

And gone shopping.

[Caroline]

Gone shopping.

[Lauren Bravo]

And it's. And you know, again, I feel conflicted about our emotional response.

[Caroline]

Right.

[Lauren Bravo]

Because it's like. Because the bar for men, blah, blah.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

He's like, he knows how to.

[Caroline]

Barfroman is in hell.

[Lauren Bravo]

He knows how to use a washing machine, therefore she has to get back with him because, you know, she's never gonna find a better man than that.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

He's got rubber gloves on. But ultimately, there is something that's very poignant and lovely, though, in that idea that when you are committed to somebody, whether it is through marriage or just knowing you are committed to each other, their family become your family. And there was something that I remember saying to friends a lot when I was younger, which was that I would never marry anyone unless I kind of was completely sure that if they absolutely had to, they would wipe my parents asses.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Because that's where this is all going.

[Lauren Bravo]

Because that's where this is all going. And ultimately, you know, it can start off with yoga classes and sexy swimming and whatever, but it ends up with, yeah, your family is their family and people get sick and people die.

[Caroline]

And also that doesn't stop being the case after you've broken up.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. Well, that's it. And so I think that, you know, we can be cynical and roll our eyes and say, like, big whoopie did it. He got a shop in. But ultimately there is something more there, which is about the fact that he is committed to her and her life. And even though he obviously finds her sisters very annoying, he shows up. He's just there. And he doesn't need to ask him to. He's just there and he's not expecting anything. And he's not there saying, let's get back together, crucially. Cause she's the one that then kind of goes and finds him and. And extends that olive branch. It's more that he's just like, no, this is what I have to do because I care deeply about these people through you. Yeah.

[Caroline]

Is it more emotional because it's Ben Affleck? Because we followed so much of his romantic misadventures through the years.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. And we felt so much of his pain. I mean, there is that.

[Caroline]

All the gens.

[Lauren Bravo]

All the gens. God. There is that very comic moment as well, with the bad art where he's standing in front of this picture that just says, should, should, should over and over again on it. And it's the point where she's like, marched out because he's not gonna marry her. And it's just. It's very funny. Yeah. There is something about the bathos of that man.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And also the haunting reoccurrence of Ben Affleck on a boat.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, God.

[Caroline]

Do you mean that? Really?

[Lauren Bravo]

Jenny from the block.

[Caroline]

Jenny from the block. And wasn't there another one of him many years later, standing on a bush?

[Lauren Bravo]

It's really sad, you're right. The terrible tattoos and. And I think. Because this came kind of in the midst of all of that, and it's like, God, there's so much more to come, mate. You don't even know. You know, there's. What is it? The greatest love story never told that they split up two months after it came out. Like, oh, God.

[Caroline]

So I think we've covered off all the storylines.

[Lauren Bravo]

I think we have. Yeah. I mean. Oh, and then you've got the lovely little vignettes at the end.

[Caroline]

Sorry, we're going. We're popping back to the vignettes. Yes.

[Lauren Bravo]

So Bradley Cooper is lonely on his own.

[Caroline]

Lonely on his own. And the only question he answers is, would you. What do you. Something about marriage.

[Lauren Bravo]

Would you get married again?

[Caroline]

Would you get married again? And he says, have you ever been married?

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, yeah.

[Caroline]

And he's just, like, very, like, fierce.

[Lauren Bravo]

God. He's like a 1970s comedian. You know, he's really reverting, but you.

[Caroline]

Get a real sense because, like, we have this moment where it's very Monica Geller, where he gets home from wherever he's been. She's folded the clothes, folded all of his clothes neatly on the stairs with a huge box of American Spirits that says, dear Ben, go nuts. Psny doors.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's perfect. It's so beautiful. Yeah. And you can tell in that vignette at the end, he is like one Reddit thread away from, oh, she has.

[Caroline]

Taken his shirt and shoes, I think, I reckon. And, like, she's taken everything.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you see her kind of in this new apartment surrounded by boxes. It does kill me that she didn't get to keep the house.

[Caroline]

I know. Keep the house.

[Lauren Bravo]

Keep the house. Javier worked so hard.

[Caroline]

You had a big argument about the woods.

[Lauren Bravo]

The wood and the tiles were too small.

[Caroline]

You told.

[Lauren Bravo]

But still, she's running over.

[Caroline]

I would want someone to have moved into that house.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, well, maybe Kevin Connolly sells it again, makes her a shit ton of money, and then maybe.

[Caroline]

I just think for narrative neatness, it would be nice if someone who doesn't know Jennifer Connelly moves. I don't Want, like, Jennifer Goodwin to move in there because that's her junior at work. I want somebody else from the story to move in. Who? You know, maybe Drew Barrymore.

[Lauren Bravo]

I don't think there is anyone at this. Oh, yeah, Drew Barrymore and Drew Barrymore.

[Caroline]

And Kevin Connolly can move in.

[Lauren Bravo]

They can move in. He can buy it for himself.

[Caroline]

I would have liked that.

[Lauren Bravo]

All right, well, let's believe that happened.

[Caroline]

I like the idea of that beautiful Renault out there in the world.

[Lauren Bravo]

Without it would have been very 2009. You don't know what paint she was gonna go for.

[Caroline]

That's true.

[Lauren Bravo]

You know, there might have been a lot of big statement wallpaper and then the other vignette. So you've got. You've got Justin Long and Jennifer Goodwin just being very cute.

[Caroline]

Yes. Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

About the hot girl that, you know. Very, very sweet. What else? Drew and Kevin being probably the most loved up couple in it, actually, despite the fact they got very little screen time.

[Caroline]

I know.

[Lauren Bravo]

And it was all very convenient. But, you know, good for them, love. Yeah. Interesting. Oh, we have. Oh, right. No, I'm talking about the bits at the end. Yeah. We haven't talked about any of the vignettes. Going through the. Very funny. Of course. The Very funny Man on the street.

[Caroline]

Yes. Which is very early. Sex and the City really makes it part of the Sex and the City universe. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And they're all really funny.

[Lauren Bravo]

So funny. Impeccably funny.

[Caroline]

And also the kind of the beginning monologue with the kids on the playground I find so funny as well. And I rarely enjoy children on screen. Yeah. That's also a really good point of, like.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's such a solid premise.

[Caroline]

Yeah. We're told from such a young age that things mean things they don't mean. And then it goes to someone who I thought was the comedian Natasha Leggero, but actually isn't.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, I just believed you when you said that.

[Caroline]

Well, it looks like her. Just someone being. What was the thing? It's about caller id.

[Lauren Bravo]

She's like, what is this modern obsession with having to know exactly who's calling? Like, for years and years, people have just been picking up the phone, and then you ask who it is, and then, you know, and as far as I can tell, nobody's died from that. And then eventually she's like. What I'm saying is, I would just reserve the right to be able to call a guy's cell, like, every three minutes until he picks up.

[Caroline]

Oh, my God, it's so the best one. My favorite one, though. Is just the two friends sitting on the bench and they realized they thought they had never been dumped. And then they realized they had only been dumped. Yeah. And they go through all the ways which, like, I just. I'm just so jealous of the guy who gets to marry you. And she's like, I thought that was you.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's gonna be you.

[Caroline]

That's what I was working towards. They're so funny.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. The. You're too good for me and I need to be on my own right now.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

And, like, we've all got a catalog of them. Right. I mean, I have to know. I say, I think I knew I'd been dumped every time I heard one of those. But still.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. But then also, ultimately, I think this is why it's quite forgiving movie to almost everyone that's in it, apart from maybe Bradley Cooper. I think it's very forgiving because it kind of comes back to just saying, look, if you're just not that into somebody, you're just not that into them, there's not that much you can do about it.

[Caroline]

There's just not. Yeah.

[Lauren Bravo]

And ultimately, you know, it's kind of. Is it. Is it kinder to reel off some bullshit about, you know, them being too good for you than it is to say, I'm just not that into, you know, like. Which is ultimately. Which is more harrowing to hear. I don't know.

[Caroline]

Have you ever had anyone say to you some version of, I don't really fancy you?

[Lauren Bravo]

No, I've always just been ghosted.

[Caroline]

Yeah, same.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. And, like, I kind. I don't know. I'm a bit of a ghosting apologist. I think it has its place.

[Caroline]

I agree.

[Lauren Bravo]

I think so. There are many occasions. We all agree. I think there are many occasions where I'm much happier I was ghosted than told the truth. Had they done whatever is supposed to be the mature thing and take me out and sat me down and said, hey, like, here's all the reasons I don't want to date you. And that would have destroyed me. Whereas with a ghosting look, you can pretend they died. You can. You can get. And crucially, you get to say they're a bad person.

[Caroline]

Oh, lovely.

[Lauren Bravo]

You know, delicious. But also the bomb.

[Caroline]

You get to complain about him being a bad person, but also no one who listens to you is. Has to take you serious nicely. It's not like it's going to really tar that person's name or, oh, he ghosted, like. And then. Then the person who's listening to that story's like, oh, I've done that.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah, we've all, we've all been ghosted. We've been.

[Caroline]

I remember the first time I was ghosted. I think I was about 20, still living in Cork. And, you know, I met this guy out at the pub or whatever, had had a kiss. He walked me home. And then I thought I was doing like very. The rules. Very like, I was like, you won't be coming in, sir.

[Lauren Bravo]

Were you wearing a twin set?

[Caroline]

Probably, probably a Peter Pan collar though, actually. And you won't be coming in, sir, but like, here's my number and like, talk to you tomorrow kind of thing. And I remember thinking like, wow, we had such like a great kiss and like it was also sexy and just never hearing from him again because he.

[Lauren Bravo]

Was like, well, if she wanted to shag me.

[Caroline]

Yeah, she wanted to. She would.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. She's just not that into me.

[Caroline]

Yeah. I remember being, being so confused because it happens for the first time. You're like, wait a second. The thing I've been told my whole life, it's not true. Like, maybe you. Maybe you should just have sex with someone if you want to have sex with someone.

[Lauren Bravo]

Well, see, this almost happened with me and Matt was we had this very, I thought fine first day. I thought it was good. He thought it was really mediocre because he thought I was not into him. And I think I was either playing it a bit coy, doing the sort of prim kind of thing, or also was just very nervous. And then, yeah, like I walked him to him to the bus stop because we were where I lived and expected to kiss him at the bus stop and didn't got off the bus and I went home and went, oh my God. Right, Okay, I completely misread that thought. That went really well. Obviously it didn't. Very sad. And then he sent me the least most non committal text anyone has ever sent as a date. Follow up being very like, cool. So, you know, it's nice to meet you. Like maybe be nice to see you again sometime if you want to. But otherwise, absolutely no worries. Don't worry. Have a nice life. You know, really giving himself an out. So no worries if not. But thankfully I did want to see him again. Then we had a wonderful second date that went on for a long time and now we're married. But yeah, I think I love, I love a kind of rocky, an unsure start. Rocky start, these things. I think it's very real. Yeah. I once had a guy that broke up with me Simply by going on a gap year and never telling me that we were not together anymore.

[Caroline]

No.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. So, Sam, if you're out there, are you still together? I figured it out eventually. I had to check for the marriage license, you know.

[Caroline]

Oh, this has been so great. Is there anything else we want to say? Any stray points? Any bits?

[Lauren Bravo]

I think so. I feel like we've really covered it. Yeah.

[Caroline]

We've really gone through it.

[Lauren Bravo]

Yeah. This has been really cathartic for me.

[Caroline]

I feel like this has been sitting in my chest for 15 years.

[Lauren Bravo]

Me, too. And I really hope there are some other people out there besides Amy. Hey, Amy.

[Caroline]

Hey, Amy.

[Lauren Bravo]

Who feel the same way about this film because it means. It means a weird amount to me for a film that I haven't really thought about very much in depth until this podcast prompted me to. It's just kind of always been there. It's just. Yeah, I'm glad it is.

[Caroline]

Well, I'm glad you're here, too. This is always so great.

[Lauren Bravo]

It's such a pleasure. Thank you.

[Caroline]

Oh, Lauren, bravo. Your novel is in paperback this month.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, my novel? Probably Nothing is out in paperback 13th of March. And it kind of has some similar stuff. It's a comedy novel about a woman who is just not that into a guy that she's seeing.

[Caroline]

Oh, so true.

[Lauren Bravo]

Then he dies, and it turns out his friends and family all thought that she was the love of his life and they were a serious couple. And because she's a people pleaser, she goes through with it out of politeness and just pretends that that was true.

[Caroline]

Would really be paid by Jennifer Goodwin.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, yeah, for sure. Oh, Jennifer would make a great briney.

[Caroline]

Can I say I love all your books? This one's my favorite.

[Lauren Bravo]

Thank you very much.

[Caroline]

And the realization that I mentioned at the top of this podcast of at some point in the last couple of years, I realized I don't really care about romances or chick lit or tropes that much. And I actually don't like it when things are formulaic. What I do like is relationship drama that centers on women's lives that is presented to me in a beautiful package with great jokes. And I realized that while reading your book.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, God, that means so much.

[Caroline]

And I really, really do mean it. I remember texting Ella about it, being like, oh, this is what I like. Because I think I had been sent a few very tropey rom coms before that.

[Lauren Bravo]

Love the tropes.

[Caroline]

They love them.

[Lauren Bravo]

They love the tropes.

[Caroline]

I'm not really one of them.

[Lauren Bravo]

No, me neither.

[Caroline]

Like, yeah, like there's a certain. We love seeing the joins in this podcast but like when someone is. There's a difference between seeing the joins and arranging flat back furniture. I think for me personally I won't take away from anyone else. But yeah, I was like there's so much and probably nothing about like health anxiety and what it means to like not have much of a family and to join one and to be to fall in love with a big family and there's so much in it. I loved it and like I really had that realization. I was like, oh, this is what I like.

[Lauren Bravo]

Oh, thank you. I mean, yeah. And I struggle because I don't really fit in a category. I'm sort of. I don't quite write romances, but I'm sort of romance adjacent and there is romance in it, but it's not not kind of the big payoff. So yeah, that means a lot. The Apple, Samsung or Google and Qual Care Condition Solo and Verizon.