Sentimental Garbage: "Nepo Babies" with Benjamin Dean

Host: Caroline O’Donoghue
Guest: Benjamin Dean
Date: September 25, 2025
Theme: The culture and controversies of nepo babies—children of the famous and privileged—and what their fame reveals about the entertainment business, social mobility, and our obsession with celebrity.

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging and witty episode, Caroline O’Donoghue and YA author Benjamin Dean dive into the "nepo baby" phenomenon. They reflect on the origins of the term, their own upbringings and careers, and the complications—both juicy and fraught—of privilege, access, and success in cultural industries. Using examples from contemporary pop culture (the Beckhams, Gracie Abrams, Dakota Johnson, Francesca Scorsese, and more), they ask: Why did nepo babies become such a hot topic? Should we feel bad for, envy, or ridicule them? What does the conversation say about the state of the working and creative classes, and about modern fame itself?

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Banter: Satirizing Nepotism and Privilege

• Both host and guest lampoon their own ‘nepo’ credentials, joking about being related to the Gruffalo’s creator and the creator of Lost (00:38–01:38).
• Caroline: “My father, the series creator of Lost, would not be too pleased to hear about this.”
• Benjamin: “The Gruffalo is absolutely my father.”

The Rise of the Nepo Baby Discourse

• Contextualizes the “nepo baby” boom as a post-2020/lockdown phenomenon, noting how Gen Z realized the world is unfair, especially in creative industries (05:20–08:59).
• Caroline: “Gen Z discovered that the world isn’t fair. Shock, horror, breaking news.” (05:20)
• Both share their own early-career struggles—unpaid internships, sleeping in hostels, and the impossibility of breaking into media without financial backing (06:19–07:44).

Benjamin’s New Novel & The Nepo Baby Murder Mystery

• Benjamin introduces his satirical YA thriller, Bury Your Friends—a “Nepo baby slasher”; begins with the epigraph: “Jesus was a Nepo baby too” (03:13–03:59).
• The epigraph was a deleted Instagram comment from Cruz Beckham:
  Benjamin: “He responded being like, Jesus is also a Nepo baby.” (04:10)
• Both find humor in the Cruz Beckham comment and discuss how this kind of logic frames nepo conversations: truth and absurdity intersect (04:16–04:49).

What Actually is a Nepo Baby?

• Dissects the difference between nepotism and privilege (10:34–11:06).
  • Nepotism = direct connections/access because of family
  • Privilege = having money and a safety net, but not necessarily a path directly smoothed by family networks
• Benjamin: “Having parents who are rich doesn’t necessarily equate to being a nepo baby...” (10:34)
• Both emphasize how difficult it is to even get a “foot in the door” without these layers.

Sympathy for Nepo Babies? The Online Backlash

• Discusses the rise of public derision for young women in high-profile roles, especially when asked about their privilege (14:10–15:27).
• Caroline: “It is always she. Always fucking she.” (14:47)
• The host and guest debate empathy fatigue and the pitfalls of seeking pity or relatability as part of a celebrity’s brand (17:46–19:37).
• Caroline: “We are very resistant to anything that looks for our pity...pity is a finite resource and something inside of us thinks, this is for children and baby animals. Sorry.” (19:37)

Changing Nature of Fame & Celebrity

• Laments how celebrities now feel the need to appear relatable and vulnerable, rather than mysterious and fabulous (21:14–22:58).
• Misses the era of ‘removed’ celebrities like Mariah Carey and Beyoncé—“I miss that...celebrities feeling a million times removed from the average normal person.” (21:45, Benjamin)
• Discusses Hailey Bieber’s “nepo baby” t-shirt as a rare witty response, ruined by her subsequent over-explanation (24:06–24:59).

The Beckhams: A Nepo Baby Case Study

• Digs into the Beckham family: Brooklyn’s serial hobby-careers; the siblings’ modeling, singing, or quiet lives; the pressures of legacy and the rare challenges of surpassing such famous parents (29:56–35:50).
• Caroline: “He is the first celebrity birth I remember.” (31:43)
• Both joke about the professional ‘hobbyism’ of some nepo babies versus others who do little with massive opportunity (28:14–29:39).

Not All Nepos Are Created Equal

• Explores the nepo-baby “tiers” (top-tier: Dakota Johnson, Jack Quaid; industry kids: Kristen Stewart, Billie Eilish) and how proximity to industry, not just fame, creates opportunities (38:58–41:05).
• Benjamin: “I’m not surprised that the majority of child actors have a connection to the industry because when you’re that young...living near LA, with parents who work there, gives you access.” (39:51)

Against All Odds: Making It Without Privilege

• Celebrates the recent Emmy win for working-class British actor Owen Cooper as a “proof point” that the arts aren’t only for privileged people, but noting how much rarer these stories are now (41:44–44:14).
• Both observe that most current prestige entertainment is obsessed with wealth, trauma, or celebrity—creating a feedback loop of fascination and frustration (44:04–45:56).
• Caroline: “It’s sort of reverse escapism where we tell ourselves that rich people want to escape.” (44:14)

Why Are We So Obsessed? Envy, Resentment, and the Limits of Success

• Benjamin reflects on the pressure of writing or creating knowing there’s no financial or familial “cushion.” (55:21–56:12)
• Benjamin: “I wish I had the privilege of working on something and knowing that if it didn’t work, it’s okay...sometimes I feel like, if this doesn’t work, I could be out on my ass tomorrow...Whereas, like, when you have that nepotism or that privilege in an industry, you can afford to take a really big creative swing and miss completely.” (55:21–55:52)
• Posits that even for nepo babies, their achievements are always in question—privately if not publicly (61:09–61:18).

Wry Wisdom, Empathy, and Favorite Nepo Babies

• Conclude with a sense of “balanced, nuanced, and graceful” consideration; neither lionizing nor demonizing nepo babies, but finding the topic perpetually fascinating (57:31–68:20).
• Both share their favorite “nepos” (Angelica Huston, King Princess), highlighting those who have a sense of irony or humor about their origins (61:26–64:17).
• Benjamin: “To be a good Nepo baby, you have to have this dry humor and kind of like recognize that it is just a bit batshit.” (63:10)
• Speculate on the challenges for children of icons (Beckhams, Scorseses, Serena Williams’s daughter) to find their own paths (67:05–68:12).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Caroline (on nepo baby logic):
  “Jesus was a Nepo baby too.” (03:13)
  Originally an Instagram comment from Cruz Beckham, this becomes a running joke summarizing the absurdity and truth at the heart of the debate.

• Benjamin (on privilege vs. nepotism):
  "Having parents who are rich doesn’t necessarily equate to being a nepo baby, but it does equate to having the privilege of, like, I’ve got the money to fall back if I fail." (10:34)

• Caroline (on the popularity of nepo baby discourse):
  “The Nepo baby conversation is the symptom of a disease and not the disease itself.” (11:41)

• Benjamin (on inflated outrage towards nepo babies):
  "Part of me does feel very, like, sorry for [Gracie Abrams]...it doesn’t look like a fun life to live where you’re doing something...you're pretty successful at, but it almost seems to be a fun hobby for people to rip into her." (13:51)

• Caroline (on the changing nature of celebrity):
  “The reason we treasure why Cher tweets that way is because nobody is doing that. Nobody’s just, like, up in space anymore...now everyone has to be ground down to lie. People are afraid...the only safe territory for them to talk openly is their vulnerability. Because if it really happened to them, you can't criticize it.” (21:15)

• On rich celebrities trying to be relatable:
  “Sometimes I look at celebrities being super defensive about their own privilege, and I'm like, why do you so desperately want to be this relatable?” (17:54, Benjamin)

• On contemporary culture’s obsession with privilege:
  “We’re kind of obsessed with [wealth] and we've sort of written ourselves our own get out clause as a cultural society. If we're punishing the rich people, then it doesn't matter.” (44:14, Caroline)

• On the reality of having no safety net:
  “You always feel, especially when you come from...I'm black. I'm gay. My stories are often black and gay. And I'm like, you almost feel the pressure of, you have to prove that our stories matter...for them to want to keep publishing or highlighting our stories.” (56:12, Benjamin)

• Caroline (on what Nepo babies miss out on):
  “When you really know that you had no one fucking helping you and you had nothing and you get to see your name in a bookshop anyway—it feels fucking great. Dakota Johnson never gets to have that feeling.” (60:25–60:31)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Event | |-----------------|----------------------------------------------------| | 00:38 | Satirical opening on "personal nepo status" | | 03:13–04:16 | "Jesus was a Nepo baby": Cruz Beckham quote, book talk | | 05:20–07:44 | Personal stories of career struggle, privilege | | 11:41 | Nepo babies as societal symptom, not disease | | 14:10–15:27 | The gendered nature of nepo baby backlash | | 21:14–22:58 | Yearning for old-school celebrity mystique | | 24:06–24:59 | Hailey Bieber's meta “nepo baby” T-shirt moment | | 29:56–35:50 | The Beckham children, pressure of legacy | | 38:58–41:05 | Discussing Nepo baby "tiers" and connections | | 41:44–45:56 | Owen Cooper; the rarity of working-class success | | 55:21–56:12 | Creative fear vs. nepo safety nets | | 60:25–61:18 | The difference in achievement fulfillment | | 61:26–64:17 | Choosing favorite Nepo babies, humor and irony | | 67:05–68:12 | The weight of expectation for star children |

Conclusion & Takeaways

• The nepo baby debate is both entertaining and a reflection of societal pain points: access, fairness, class, and our changing relationship to fame.
• While it’s easy to be irritated by the ease with which some people (often women) rise in creative industries, the “nepo baby” headline hides larger issues: shrinking opportunities for all, a creative economy beset by privilege, and a culture obsessed with celebrity.
• Not all nepo babies are the same—some are talented, some are not, and the truly admirable ones handle it with dry humor and self-awareness.
• For writers and creators without powerful family, the struggle is real—but the fulfillment of “doing it on your own” is potent and underappreciated.
• The podcast ends on both a call for nuance and an appreciation of the different winds that carry people into culture. And on the unmatchable satisfaction of forging your own path—however you do it.

Book Mentioned:
Bury Your Friends by Benjamin Dean – “A Nepo baby slasher… the fractured friendships of a group of privileged teens are put to the test by a serial killer...” (03:15)

Final Note

Sentimental Garbage brings humor, heart, and sharp observation to the question of why nepo babies fascinate and annoy us. Essential listening for anyone who loves pop culture, is interested in fairness and fame, or just enjoys two clever people taking the piss out of privilege—while holding onto empathy for all involved.