Sarah Reed (5:02)

As you can tell, Da Wamp raises her concerns to the judge about Jason Chen receiving preferential treatment. She points out that Weiss moved the trash can and tissues near their table, implying that the defendant may be trying to sway the court's perception. Judge Patterson responds by emphasizing that everyone in the courtroom, including Chen, must maintain composure, especially given the graphic nature of the upcoming testimony. Judge Patterson also warns the gallery that anyone who is unable to remain composed should excuse themselves from the courtroom before this evidence is presented. At this time, Jasmine's mother, Katrina Bean, and Jason Chen's mother, Xu Feng Chen, both leave the courtroom. They already knew. Some things, once seen, can never be unseen. This all happened before we even entered the courtroom. Pretrial matters were a regular occurrence, so we never really knew what we'd be walking into each day. But something was noticeably different this morning as we took our seats. Despite the tension in the room, the proceedings were officially underway by 9:45. Hamilton County Medical examiner and forensic psychologist Dr. Stephen Cogswell was sworn in as the state's first expert witness. With nearly 40 years of experience and thousands of autopsies to his name, including over 100 cases involving fatal stag wounds, Dr. Steven Cogswell's experience is undeniable. His presence alone commands respect as he takes the stand. Dr. Cogswell, a middle aged man with a shaved head and A neatly trimmed beard peppered with gray, carries himself with quiet authority. He wears black glasses and is dressed sharply in a navy collared shirt, a blue patterned tie and a dark gray suit jacket. Exuding professionalism and confidence, General Moyle brings Dr. Cogswell to the scene of Suck Creek Road on the afternoon of December 1, 2022. Moyle asks him, what did you see.

Dr. Stephen Cogswell (7:17)

When you got there? Obviously there were quite a few law enforcement vehicles and off to the side of the road adjacent to the river was a hard shell suitcase. Just off the shoulder of the road near that area were actually a couple of beer carcasses that had been tossed out there after butchering. But in particular this suitcase was basically the kind that you would take on a relatively extended trip. Large suitcase on the walls, handle, etc. After all of the documentation, photographic and location issues were resolved by police department so that they could place it exactly, then the question came up, well, what is in the suitcase? And at that point the COVID of the suitcase, the lid was open, inside was a black plastic trash bag. And so using basically just hands, I could feel along the contents of the bag and say, yes, this is not animal or something, this is a human being inside of it. At which point then the suitcase was closed back up, it was transported to the medical examiner's office and at that point there was further examine, not just the suitcase but also the contents.

Sarah Reed (8:59)

Next, Moyle asked Dr. Cogswell, what did you do when you returned to your office? Here's A clip of Dr. Cogswell's response at that point.

Dr. Stephen Cogswell (9:10)

Before we do anything else, then we're going to start doing photographs and X rays because we're going to document everything we're doing as we're doing it in a stepwise fashion because we don't want to lose evidence. So in X ray we basically just lay the suitcase on top of the X ray plates and X ray through the suitcase and looking at those X rays it was evident that there is a deceased person inside, basically in a fetal position that is drawn with a knee strawn up and the arms crossed around across the chest and fitted into the suitcase. In addition, along with all of the hardware in the suitcase that shows up on X ray, there's also a triangular metallic density piece that showed up in the area of the chest. And it's something that obviously didn't belong to the suitcase because there's a very regular arrangement of support bars, rivets, etc. That is fairly symmetrical. So after the X raying was done, then the body Was lifted out of the suitcase. And at that point, then the suitcase is laid off to the side. That's no longer a medical examiner interest. That's law enforcement interest. And then I proceeded to cut each of these black plastic trash bags along one side and along the bottom and remove each of those in turn. Turns out there were three. And as happens to be fairly common, at least. At least in the bodies that I've done in cases in which I've autopsied, where people have been disposed of in trash bags, it seems like the interior bag is always pulled up from the feet toward the head, and then there's another one down from the head toward the feet, and then there may be a third one again feet toward the head. In this case, turns out it was exactly the same way. I guess that's just how humans. But so each of those bags is cut off, removed. And that reveals the body of a young woman who is in a fetal position, has no clothing on the top half of her body, and is shackled and handcuffed.

Sarah Reed (11:50)

I think it's interesting that Cogswell mentions the direction in which the bags were placed over Jasmine's body. Here, he said the first bag was pulled up from her feet to her head, the second placed from her head down towards her feet, and the third, once again, from her feet over her head. Each bag was cinched closed and tied with a knot. At first, this might seem like a minor detail, but his point is chilling. Cogswell has clearly seen this pattern before, and it speaks to something deeper, something disturbingly consistent in human behavior when attempting to conceal a body. Dr. Cogswell then walks the jury through the painstaking process of documenting all 60 of the wounds on Jasmine's body. Each injury is photographed first as it was found, then again after being cleaned. He explains the key difference between incised wounds and stab wounds. Incised wounds are more superficial and have directionality, appearing more as a slice, While stab wounds are, as they sound, a strike, penetrating deeper and causing more severe damage. The jury also learns about three critical time frames forensic experts use to classify injuries. Antemortem, which is inflicted before death, Perimortem, which is inflicted around the time of death, and postmortem, which is inflicted after death. It's a sobering moment as science strips away the emotion and breaks down the unimaginable into cold clinical facts. Dr. Cogswell then shares a lesson he instills in his students when teaching about sharp force injuries. Look for the blood until every drop is accounted for. They truly don't know where the bleeding occurred. And until you find this, you haven't found the crime scene.

Dr. Stephen Cogswell (13:57)

Basically, all staff wounds, unless they actually hit your brain or central nervous system, cause death by making you bleed to death. That's the mechanism. So we look at. All right, what is the blood volume in your average person of this size? So in a person who is the size of Jasmine pace, just under 100 pounds, her blood volume is approximately four liters or four quarts of blood. So a gallon of blood. Now, if you lose about 20 to 30, 30% of your blood volume, that is sufficient to make you unconscious. Anything above 30% is sufficient to actually cause death. So when we look at someone who has four quarts of blood, if we lose quart and a half, that's sufficient to cause death. So there should still be some blood left inside the body, but it's going to be spread around in the body and the capillaries. The blood that's in the big toe is going to remain in the big toe. So what we're actually looking at is where is that quart and a half of blood? When I'm teaching classes on char horse injuries, look for the blood. Because a quart and a half of blood goes a long way. I use the analogy, everyone is painted a wall sometime in your life. That's a gallon of blood. That's four quarts. You can paint a room with a gallon of blood. So if you see a spot blood this big and someone is dead, there's more blood somewhere else. Maybe it's inside the body, but maybe it's also at another scene. So that's why we say look for the blood. Because until you have found all that blood, you don't really know where the bleeding occurred.

Sarah Reed (16:01)

You can paint a room with a gallon of blood. That phrase stuck with me the moment Dr. Cogswell said it. I instantly looked down at the carpet still laying out on the courtroom floor, stained with Jasmine's blood. It wasn't just evidence. It was a haunting reminder of where her life ended. This feels like a good time to remind you to take care while listening to this episode. Out of respect for Jasmine's family, we're choosing not to share every graphic detail about her wounds. But we do want to give enough context to help you understand what happened. Dr. Cogswell begins with x ray images, offering an undeniable glimpse into how Jasmine's body was positioned inside of the suitcase, her head toward the handle and her feet toward the wheels. He then shifts to the evidence of restraint. Jasmine's Right wrist was handcuffed to the inside of her left ankle, while her right ankle was shackled to her right elbow. It was a restrictive, contorted position that suggests deliberate immobilization. In an effort to better understand how she was restrained, I actually laid on the floor of my living room and tried to get into this position myself. And restrictive and contortive are great descriptions of the position she was forced into. One critical detail stands out. The chain on the shackles was broken, a possible sign of a desperate struggle. Yet Dr. Cogswell is quick to point out something unexpected. There were no ligature marks or abrasions on Jasmine's ankles or wrists, raising even more questions about how and when the restraints were applied, a detail the defense will be sure to bring up later. Even more telling is the pattern of her injuries. The majority of Jasmine's 60 wounds were concentrated on her upper right side, reinforcing the theory that she was in the fetal position during the attack. Now let's return to the courtroom as Dr. Cogswell walks the jury through the X rays of the suitcase.

Dr. Stephen Cogswell (18:25)

In the position the suitcase is right now, her body is with the head upward, facing toward the portal. Sir, I'm now showing you 232. Do you orient us to this photograph? This photo is moving over a little bit to. If I could point to the suitcase to this area here that we're X raying. And again we see another one of these reinforcing ribs, a few more rivets, et cetera, et cetera. A zipper hole on the inside. And here we have a knee. You can see the kneecap here and the lower leg, the shin and the fibula that goes along with it. This is the thigh bone. Here you see a hand or the bones of a hand. And you can see the top of the skull as well here. 2, 3. 3. And we're moving downward on the suitcase in basically counterclockwise fashion to this area down toward the wheel on the the side closest to the courtroom. And we see again, that reinforcing rib, zippers, rivets, etc. But we also see handcuffs and shackles as well as another metallic device here, which is actually embraced. But you can see on this one, there is a chain that extends here, and there is no chain coming off of this particular one. And we're down here to feet. These are the foot bones, feet and ankle bones down here. So we have forearm here, the two forearm bones, and arm and forearm bones here. And so we're down here. This is her buttocks. Two and three fours are. And we're moving over obviously, to the last part, which is down here. And again, we have all the hardware of the suitcase. We see a bit of pelvis bone here, means lumbar spine here, again, one of those shackles that we saw in the previous X ray. And so we have basically by going counterclockwise, we have a complete picture of a small individual. At this point, we didn't know male to female is still inside the suitcase, still inside those black plastic bags.

Sarah Reed (21:14)

Yeah, you heard that correctly. Handcuffs and shackles, for those of you who are curious about the difference between the two, I was. Handcuffs are designed to restrain a person's wrists together. Shackles, on the other hand, have a longer chain between the cuffs and are typically heavier metal restraints used to secure different parts of the body, usually the ankles. Think of prisoners being transferred. With Prosecutor Moyle's instructions, Dr. Cogswell puts on a pair of blue gloves and opens the evidence bag containing the handcuffs, showing them to the jury.

Dr. Stephen Cogswell (21:59)

They are still wrapped in the surgical towel that came from the medical examiner's office office. Again, these are not the typical law enforcement handcuffs. They're simply cheap, steel, chrome plated. Thank you. And there's the same cuffs that we saw on the screen. Yes, it is correct. Same cuffs that you can see here. Here's the right hand, right foot. Yes.

Sarah Reed (22:33)

He goes through the same process with the shackles.

Dr. Stephen Cogswell (22:37)

In the case of the shackles, it was not to the left arm, but it was to the right elbow or forearm just below the elbow. So her left hand and arm were actually free. They were not bound. I'm showing you the scoop videos and evidence is 204. 19. Could you tell us what we're looking at in this photograph? This is Jasmine Pace's right elbow area. You can see. This would be the tattoo on her shoulder. This is her actual elbow here. And you can see two lines of rust, basically, along with being pattern of that chain, again with a rust pattern showing where the shackle was. And in fact, you can see, I think, where the double part of the shackle is over here, right at the inside. Proof of the elbow.

Sarah Reed (23:49)

Cogswell also pointed out rust stains on Jasmine's skin, evidence of where the shackles and chains pressed against her for an extended period. He then presented a photo of the left side of Jasmine's body, which was completely free of wounds. But when her body was rolled over, it became clear that every single injury was concentrated on her upper right side. This pattern, he explained, is consistent with someone being trapped in the fetal position, further reinforcing the prosecution's theory that Jasmine was confined and immobilized during the attack. There was a moment during these photos when I found myself staring down at my blank notepad, my mind unable to process what I was seeing. Without thinking, I silently muttered to myself, oh, my God. The sheer number of her injuries was overwhelming, each one a brutal testament to what Jasmine endured. I just couldn't believe it. This entire time, Jason Chen's head is hanging down. At first, it seems like he's avoiding the photos being shown on the courtroom screen. But by now, I had noticed a small monitor mounted under the glass top of the defense table directly in front of him. Later, I asked the bailiff about it, and he confirmed that every time something appeared on the large screen in the courtroom, the smaller screen in front of him turns on and displays the same content. So while Jason appeared downcast, maybe even remorseful, the truth was he was seeing those images in even sharper detail than the rest of us. As images filled the screen, Dr. Cogswell walked us through key identifiers used during Jasmine's autopsy, Markers that help confirm her identity. Among those identifiers were her tattoos, Permanent expressions of who she was now preserved only in these photos and in the memories of those who loved her. You know, during sequestration, I had a lot of time to think. And honestly, I kept wishing I had a speaker so that I could just listen to a great book. That's why I love audiobooks. Whether I'm driving, walking the dogs, or traveling, I can just press play and get lost in an amazing story anytime and anywhere. One of my all time favorites is New York by Edward Rutherford. This epic historical novel spans over 400 years, following generations of families through the city's most pivotal moments. From its Dutch settlement days and all the way to 9 11. It was one of the first audiobooks I had ever listened to. It felt like the narrator was reading the story just for me. I was completely hooked. Here's some good news. You can listen to New York or any other book for free. Audible is giving Sequestered listeners a free audiobook with a 30 day trial. Just go to audibletrial.com sequestered that's one free book, yours to keep forever. So find something you love and get listening. Go to audibletrial.com sequestered Dr. Cogswell's testimony didn't just outline the injuries. It painted a vivid picture of the violence Jasmine suffered. His detailed observations provided the jury with a clearer understanding of the circumstances surrounding her death, emphasizing the deliberate and confined nature of the attack. While they are talking about Jasmine being in the fetal position, Moyle goes back to the large carpet sample on the floor of the courtroom and asks Dr. Cogswell if he sees any significance with the blood stain in regards to the size of Jasmine's body.

Dr. Stephen Cogswell (28:13)

Is there any medical significance to the stain that we see in item 127, to the physical evidence that we have as 158 carbon? When I first saw this photograph, it immediately struck me, and I think I actually blurted out, that looks like a shroud of turin. And what I saw here was basically a recreation of the bloodstain pattern or a bloodstained pattern that I would expect to see if someone is bleeding in that fetal position that we saw, because we have the feet and legs down here with the knees drawn up, arm down here, other arm here, head here. Now, obviously it's not exact because it's being absorbed and spread a little bit, but the shape is very, very consistent with not only the positioning of Jasmine face's body, but also the size of her body. And so if we look at the size of her body, the positioning of her body, and look at the stain, they overlay. Carolyn, look. Actually very. Now, can I say that's absolutely her blood? No. I don't know what testing was done to match that to her, but the stain is extremely consistent with her body as foul.

Sarah Reed (29:55)

At this point. With Moyles directing, Cogswell methodically takes the jury through all 60 stab wounds one by one, using clinical, almost detached terminology like curvilinear and vertex. But behind those technical words was a reality that was impossible to detach from. Out of respect for Jasmine and her family, we won't be sharing all of this audio. However, I will share this. Jasmine was stabbed 60 times across her scalp, face, neck, upper back, chest, shoulder, arm, and torso. With the exception of her free left hand, every single wound was concentrated on the right side of her body. One of the most chilling details, the blade of the knife Jason Chen used snapped when it struck one of Jasmine's ribs, breaking off inside of her chest. Dr. Cogswell discovered it lodged between two ribs and penetrating deep inside of her right lung. There was also evidence of blunt force impact to her chest, leaving a large contusion or bruise. Dr. Cogswell noted that this blow could have rendered Jasmine unconscious or semi conscious, making it even harder for her to fight back. Additionally, there were abrasions and bruising on the front of her neck, which, according to Cogswell, may indicate manual strangulation. Though it was not officially documented in the autopsy report, this was not just an attack. It was a prolonged, deliberate and brutal assault, reflecting a level of calculated malice that is both shocking and incomprehensible. By this point in the day, we had reached a lunch break. Can you imagine breaking for lunch after this? Sitting through the forensic breakdown of 60 stab wounds, a broken knife lodged in Jasmine's lung, and evidence of blunt force trauma, and then stepping outside to grab a sandwich? Somehow we all managed. What was interesting to learn after the trial was that while court was adjourned, during this particular afternoon, breaking news was already hitting the media. Here's News Channel 9's Latricia Thomas sharing this development during the live stream as we broke for lunch.

Latricia Thomas (32:32)

But actually, I do want to pause here and go away from our normal structure to talk about some breaking news that was just into our newsroom moments before we broke for lunch here. And that is a wrongful death lawsuit has been filed by Jasmine Pace's family against Jason Chin and his parents. Now, we have not heard them implicated by facing criminal charges in this case, but we now know that in November, attorney Ben McGowan, who's representing the Pace family, filed a wrongful death lawsuit. Some of the things that it claims here, that there was criminal conspiracy between Jason Chin and his parents. They claim the family helped him to cover up the murder and then harbored him at their Nolensville, Tennessee, home while police were looking to arrest him. This lawsuit is looking for $17 million. Our web team right now is working on getting that lawsuit and more details of it onto our website, newschannel9.com.

Sarah Reed (33:45)

The defense began their cross examination pressing Dr. Cogswell on a critical question. Could the autopsy determine whether Jasmine was unconscious during the attack? Dr. Cogswell remained firm. While his findings were extensive and detailed, he explained that an autopsy can't answer every question about Jasmine's state in that moment. Whether she was fully conscious, semiconscious, or unconscious at the time of the stabbing remains unknown.

Dr. Stephen Cogswell (34:18)

At the end of your testimony there, you talked about how long Jessica Face might have been wrong. It sounded like more than three settings that follow, less than five. Is that fair? That's very. That's the kind of death that the type of consciousness could be given. Well, in fact, she may have been unconscious before she was stabbed. There's no way to tell that from an autopsy. But if we're talking about just bleeding, roughly half of that time period, she would be potentially conscious. And.

Sarah Reed (35:00)

When proceedings resume, Dr. Cogswell returns to discuss the toxicology report. He explains that Jasmine's heart and major blood vessels were nearly empty of blood, and notably, no alcohol was detected, despite claims that wine had been consumed on the night of her murder. Here's Latricia Thomas of News Channel 9.

Latricia Thomas (35:21)

Again, let's take a look quickly at one thing that has kind of become center stage here, and that is the toxicology report from jasmine Pace's autopsy. Dr. Cogswell, the one doing the autopsy on Jasmine Pace's body after she was found in that suitcase on the side of Sut Creek Road. One thing, and to understand why there's so many questions about this toxicology report, you have to go back to the opening statements by the defense. So if you'll remember, the defense attorney, Joshua Weiss, came out and said, we're not going to waste your time. We admit that Jason Chin killed Jasmine Pace. But instead of it being a premeditated murder, which is what the prosecution is claiming, they want the jury to believe that this was a crime of passion. And they say this all was spread sparked when Jasmine Pace saw text messages come in to Jason Chin's phone. And then she got very angry. They said they were together drinking wine. They. They mentioned the wine in the opening statements several, several times. They said when Jasmine Pace went in the kitchen to get a second bottle of wine, she heard those text messages come in. They say she then went at him with a wine bottle. He kicked her to get her to move back, which she fell upon some wine glasses and then tried to attack Jason Chin with that broken wine glass. Now, why is that important? Well, today it becomes important, that narrative that the defense says that they will try to prove when it's their turn. Because now we see the blood tests of Jasmine Pace that have been introduced by her autopsy report that she in fact, did not have alcohol in her system.

Sarah Reed (37:31)

If you've been following the podcast, we've got something new for you. Now you can dive even deeper into each episode on our website, SequesteredPod.com we've added exclusive blogs for every episode, packed with extra details, behind the scenes insights and key moments from the trial. Plus, we've organized all the trial and news coverage by each day of the trial, so you can follow along just like we did in the jury room. Head over to SequesteredPod.com now to explore the case in a whole new way. As Dr. Cogswell continues his testimony, Moyle guides him through the details of Jasmine's injuries. Dr. Cogswell reiterates that her injuries are Consistent with being in the fetal position, a posture that made it easier for her body to be forced into a confined space during the attack. I want to pause here and share something from my perspective as a juror. One wound that stood out to me was a deep gash on Jasmine's left forearm. Remember, this was her free arm. I couldn't tell if it came from a single strike or if the knife had hit the same spot over and over, but it was clear to me that this was a defensive wound. It looked as if Jasmine had instinctively raised her arm to shield her face and head from the repeated blows of the knife. My producer and I have spent a lot of time piecing together what we know about this attack, trying to understand how Jasmine was restrained and what happened inside that apartment. What stands out to me is the haphazard way she was cuffed. It was a tangled, almost desperate arrangement, like they were put on in the middle of a fight. In my opinion, Jason Chen wasn't methodically restraining Jasmine. He was trying to gain control of her, trying to keep her from kicking, fighting, and ultimately getting away. And now the autopsy photos confirmed it. Jasmine was in the fetal position during the attack. And I'm bringing it up again because it's crucial to understanding the wounds themselves. If she had been in any other position, the injuries would have been scattered across her body. But instead, every single stab wound was concentrated in one small area, her upper right side. That kind of concentrated violence, it says something. It tells us this wasn't random, it wasn't chaotic. It was intentional. When I close my eyes at night, I can't help but visualize how this happened. Trying to piece together the moments leading up to Jasmine's death. I'm certain I'm not alone in this. Anyone who's seen these photos, the investigators, attorneys, Judge Patterson, Dr. Cogswell, my fellow jurors, and especially Jasmine's family, they all likely confront similar visions. Yet the only person who truly knows what happened is Jason Chen. Here's what we've put together based on the evidence presented thus far, Though I want to be clear that these are my own theories, not necessarily facts. We know that Jasmine went to Jason's apartment by choice on November 22nd. Arriving at 11:42pm she was there for over two hours before things went terribly wrong. On day six of the trial, Jason's downstairs neighbor will testify that she heard a woman scream coming from his apartment at 2:11am on the early hours of Nov. 23, followed by the sound of chasing movement from the back bedroom toward the front door. Then she heard the front door slam. Seven minutes after that scream. At 2:18am, Jasmine sends a pin drop location to her mother, Katrina Bean. Not a text, not a call, a location pin. That detail haunts me. I've thought about how sending a location pin works. It's not the most instinctive thing to do under stress, but it's gotten easier to do in the last couple of years on an iPhone, which Jasmine had at the time. It used to require users to open Apple Maps, search the location, and then drop a pin manually. But now all you have to do is open your text message app, click the plus sign sign next to the text field, scroll down to location and hit send. Still, why a location pin? To me, it feels like she didn't have time to type a message. As if this was all she could do. Her way of saying, mom, this is where I am. I've come to realize that when people lie, they often weave in parts of the truth. It's like they can't help but sprinkle in bits of reality and they'll almost always cast themselves as the victim, not the one responsible for the harm done. That's why the defense's story during their opening statement stuck with me. According to them, Jasmine was the aggressor chasing Jason and Jason was the one running from her. They painted this almost comical scene of Jason trying to slammed the bathroom door shut, only to be foiled by the bath mat. Then came the so called impossible pocket door to the bedroom, as if this whole thing was some sitcom misunderstanding. But what if that story held a kernel of truth, just with the roles reversed, what if Jason was the one chasing Jasmine through his apartment? I mentioned the defense's first witness. She was the neighbor living in apartment 110, directly below Jason's unit. Although her testimony aimed to support the defense, she inadvertently helped clarify the time of the attack. Remember, at 2:11am she was jolted awake by a woman's scream from the apartment above. Following this, she described hearing sounds of someone being chased from the bedroom to the front door, culminating in the sharp slam of the door itself. Something provoked Jasmine's fear. Something made her scream. Maybe she was trying to get out of there. Maybe Jason was behind her and before she could make it out the front door, he slammed it shut. Did she turn back toward the bedroom in a panic? Did she try to barricade herself in the bathroom only to be tripped up by the bath mat? And was it Jasmine, not Jason, desperately trying to pull that pocket door closed between the bathroom and the bedroom. Remember? At 2.18am, just seven minutes after that scream, Jasmine sends her mom the location pin. That tiny act says so much things were bad. She knew she needed help. And I can't stop wondering, when, in those terrifying moments, did Jason retrieve the handcuffs and shackles? Was it before or after that text was sent? Could Jasmine have made it back to the bathroom, just barely closing the door, buying herself a few precious seconds to send her location? I keep picturing her leaning against that wall, maybe sitting on the floor, bracing for whatever came next. Given the layout of the bathroom, it could make sense that her left side was against the wall, with Jason towering above her. Especially when you consider the pattern of stab wounds to her scalp, face, shoulders and her free hand. We know there was a pool of blood in the bathroom, some of it crossing the threshold into the bedroom. There was blood spatter on the wall, smears on the door frames, all of it painting a chilling picture of violence in a confined space. And that leads us to one of the biggest questions raised in the courtroom. Was Jasmine already cuffed when she was being stabbed? Or as the defense claimed, were the restraints only used after her death to make her body fit into the trash bags? We know her right wrist was handcuffed to the inside of her left ankle and her right elbow was shackled to her right ankle, leaving her left arm completely free. Now try to picture her left side pressed against the bathroom floor, her right arm threaded between her legs and bound to her ankles. Some kind of cruel game of twister. It's almost impossible to imagine, actually, let alone endure. Then there's the blood evidence found in Jason's bedroom. Remember the massive five foot stain on the carpet? That stain tells us her body was likely moved out after the attack. Or at the very least, the violence ended there, before she was put inside the trash bags and eventually into the suitcase. This is the picture we're left with, pieced together from evidence, testimony, and what we can only imagine Jasmine endured that night. We'd love to hear your thoughts on this. If you've been following the case or have your own theories, we'd love to hear them. Send us an email@sequesteredpodmail.com before the medical examiner stepped down from the stand, the jurors had a chance to ask their own questions. It's something we've mentioned before, but it's worth repeating because it's pretty rare. Not every judge allows this, but Judge Patterson does. And it gave us the opportunity to clarify facts directly from the witnesses in real time, rather than saving them for the deliberation phase. I also think it gave the courtroom, more specifically the attorneys, A unique window into what the jury was really curious about throughout the trial. On this particular day, our questions covered everything from whether cleaning agents could have altered the appearance of Jasmine's wounds to whether any fibers or fingerprints were recovered from the scene. Dr. Cogswell responded to each one, even opening the door to the possibility that a second knife could have been used, Though he stopped short of any firm conclusions. We thought it might be interesting to share a couple of the jury's actual questions with you so that you can get a sense of what was on our minds as we work to piece everything together.

Dr. Stephen Cogswell (48:37)

Cogswell, the jury has some questions for you. I'll ask them if you can face the jury with handing with office. CSU used a blue star agent that revealed blood in other locations of the apartment. Based on your autopsy, can you say that the victim's injuries may have occurred in more than just a single bedroom? Yes, they could have. Again, I think the most likely is that the injuries were inflicted in the position in which she was found. That does not preclude include some of those injuries being inflicted elsewhere in the apartment or that when her body was being moved that some blood leaked out was found elsewhere in the apartment. Are you able to identify any of the wounds were cleaned with peroxide or alcohol? No, I'm not. Would you be able to identify if carpet fibers were found in any of the wounds inflicted on the body or anywhere on the body? I found no carpet fibers in the wounds themselves. Some hairs were recovered off of her clothing and her body. Those were all submitted to Chattery pd. As to what the test results showed, I don't know. Does it appear that all the wounds were inflicted by the same knife? It is certainly likely, but it is not impossible that a second knife was used. However, the dimensions of the wounds don't say categorically. This is two knives, so there. There's going to have to be some overlap. For example, a significantly smaller knife but a pocket knife would not be involved in this. Does amount of blood collected impact percentages that could result in testing that is very small amount collected. Would more blood confirm more accurate results? No. The amount of blood collected is sufficient to run the test. If it's an insufficient quantity, then the toxicology lab will tell us not sufficient to run the test. We suggest doing targeted testing or this. They actually don't need anywhere near the amount of blood we give them. They can actually make do with 2 ML of blood. We usually send a 10 ML tube, but as you saw, in this particular case it was just under 6ml, so there was plenty of blood. More blood would not actually have changed the results at all.

Sarah Reed (51:24)

The prosecution briefly recalls crime scene investigator Kristin Schubert to the stand. Schubert is asked about the two sanitary pads collected as evidence. One recovered from Jasmine's body and the other found outside the dumpster at Jason Chen's apartment complex. Since neither pad was tested, we can't say with certainty that they're a match. But Schubert describes the similarity between them as striking. Next, the jury hears from Kim Lau, a special agent and forensic scientist with the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, or TBI. Garnering over 20 years of experience, Agent Lau is straightforward about the limitations her lab faces, including a six month backlog and a policy that restricts testing to just 10 items per homicide case. Agent Lau then walks the jury through what was tested. Swabs from Jason Chen and Jasmine's parents. Jasmine's toothbrush and carpet from Jason Chen's apartment. Her testimony confirms several key points. The blood found in Jason Chen's apartment matches Jasmine's DNA. Swabs from the shackles, handcuffs and even the garbage bags link back to Jason. And some evidence, like a swab from the suitcase handle, came back inconclusive. Under cross examination, Agent Lau explains that not every piece of evidence could be tested due to limited resources. And when jurors ask who decides which 10 items actually get tested, she's clear the decision is hers. Based on proximity to the crime and the likelihood of finding DNA evidence, by the time court adjourns for the day, it's almost 7pm Judge Patterson reminds the jurors of their obligation not to be exposed to the media or to speak to each other about the trial, then instructs us to return at 10am the next morning, giving everyone a chance to catch their breath after a long, heavy day, the evidence, expert testimonies, and even the jurors specific questions have left us all with as many uncertainties as clarifications. Which feels like a perfect reflection of the case itself. Nothing is simple. Nothing is clear cut. And with every new detail, the truth feels both closer and further away. As we conclude day four of this trial for Jasmine Pace, the profound weight of today's revelations lingers heavily. The meticulous forensic analysis presented by the State's expert witness, Dr. Stephen Cogswell, not only detailed the horrifying injuries Jasmine endured, but also illuminated the calculated nature of the violence she faced. Each piece of evidence and every expert insight adds layers to a narrative that is anything but straightforward. As jurors, we are tasked with navigating this intricate web, seeking clarity amidst the ambiguity. Yet with every detail unveiled, the elusive nature of truth becomes even more apparent, reminding us of the profound responsibility we bear in our pursuit of justice. Next week, Unsequestered and the two prints.

Latricia Thomas (54:58)

Of quality to examine from that garbage bag around the body of Jasmine Pace were made by who?

Dr. Stephen Cogswell (55:05)

Were made by Joseph Chand. The prints of value made by Joseph Chance.

Sarah Reed (55:09)

The prints that were not of value that you received or that you were able to extract from the other bags.

Dr. Stephen Cogswell (55:15)

They were. They can't be the pair. Okay.

Sarah Reed (55:19)

Fingerprints, phone records and surveillance footage weave together a chilling timeline, one that may seal Jason Chen's fate. Thanks for sticking with us. If today's episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a review and share it with friends. We'll see you next week. Thank you for listening to Sequestered A Juror's perspective on the Murder Trial for Jasmine Pace. Each episode brings us closer to understanding the trial, the people involved, and the weight of seeking justice. If this story speaks to you, please follow, share and continue the conversation with us. Jasmine's story deserves to be remembered. This is a BP production. The show is written, edited and produced by me, Sarah Reed, with co production by Andrea Clyde. News clips featured in this episode were sourced From WTVC News, Channel 9, Local 3 News Chattanooga and the Law and Crime Network. Music and sound design are curated to reflect the gravity and sensitivity of this story and with the intent to honor Jasmine, her family, and the community affected by her death. For more information or to connect with us, visit sequesteredpod.com or follow us on Instagram at sequesteredpod. Thank you for listening. Until next time. Time Stay curious and stay safe.