SEQUESTERED Podcast – Special Preview: Mind Games

Host: Road Trip Studios
Episode: Introducing Mind Games
Date: February 10, 2026
Theme: Investigating the Origins and Dark Edges of Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP)

Episode Overview

This episode serves as a special preview of Mind Games, an investigative podcast series that explores neuro linguistic programming (NLP) – a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology promising self-transformation. The preview traces NLP's controversial roots in 1970s experimental therapy, centering on its co-founders Richard Bandler and John Grinder, and raises urgent ethical questions about authority, influence, and the lasting effects of unchecked psychological experimentation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Shaky Beginnings of NLP

• Therapy Was Controversial: In the 1970s, therapy itself faced skepticism, and regulation was minimal. Into this space stepped Bandler and Grinder, experimenting openly with new therapeutic techniques.

• Student "Patients": Young students, eager for self-improvement, became both therapists and subjects in group sessions, blurring professional boundaries.

  “I actually did quite a bit of my personal work with the both of them that was extremely powerful.”
  — Debra Canter Morton (02:24)

Group Dynamics and Techniques

• Peer-Run Therapy Circles: Students worked on each other – exposing intimate fears and traumas in the presence of peers, guided by probing and often invasive questioning.
• Signature Questioning Style:

  • The persistent use of the phrase:

    “What stops you from doing that?”
    — Jodi Bruce (04:30)

  • These questions dissected feelings of fear, anger, and other emotions, with the aim to open up paths to alternative emotional responses.

  • The environment could be relentlessly probing, leading some to question the line between therapy and intrusion.

    “Sometimes I would get frustrated and just say, look, we're just gonna have an argument, okay? That’s just how it goes. I don’t want to be a chapter in your book… maybe that’s where the word ‘culty’ comes in, is that for some people, for this to work, it needed to be a way of life.”
    — Jodi Bruce (04:56)

Expansion and Early Ethical Problems

• Therapy as Lifestyle: The intensity led to a “culty” feel, where everyone became deeply entangled, personally and sometimes romantically.
• NLP in Psychiatric Hospitals:
  • Bandler and Grinder secured access to practice their unproven techniques on patients at Napa State Hospital.
  • Even in an era of questionable institutional practices, this stood out:

    “They were given free reign to test their ideas out on extremely vulnerable people.”
    — Host/Narrator (09:23)

  • Some participants recognized the questionable ethics but justified experimentation as preferable to institutional neglect.

Power, Consent, and Boundary Violations

• Manipulation for Fun:

  • Former participants described an undercurrent of manipulation and a sense that Bandler and Grinder relished their psychological power.

    “It was a game for them to see how they could manipulate and control people and they could share that laugh with each other.”
    — Debra Canter Morton (10:11)

• Romantic and Sexual Entanglements:

  • Relationships between “therapists” and “clients” frequently crossed ethical boundaries.

    “Making out with a client as a therapist is a huge ethical breach.”
    — Co-host/narrator (10:53)

The Christmas Party Incident (Key Segment: 11:26–14:43)

• A Ritual Gone Wrong:

  • During a 1974 party (which a participant attended while on mushrooms), routine "gifts" turned into a traumatic ritual.

  • Devra was blindfolded, strapped to a cross, and positioned over logs doused in lighter fluid, forced to symbolically escape her "victim position" with a knife provided by another member.

  • The staged drama, according to Bandler and Grinder, was meant as therapy to provoke a breakthrough, but left Devra traumatized, feeling her trust and consent were deeply violated.

    “I was angry, just incredibly angry that I’d been put in that position by people that I had trusted, that maybe I shouldn’t have trusted… Ethically, it didn’t seem right. They took my permission as my therapist to go too far.”
    — Debra Canter Morton (14:43)

Aftermath and Legacy

• Departures and Disavowal:

  • The incident led participants like Devra to break off entirely and refuse further association with NLP, or use the techniques professionally.

    “I decided not to have anything further to do with either of them.”
    — Debra Canter Morton (15:58)

• Unanswered Questions:

  • Other interviewees corroborated some details, but Bandler and Grinder refused comment. The episode closes by noting that while these excesses occurred in the fringe, NLP would spread far wider, sometimes with darker consequences.

Notable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• NLP’s Initial Appeal:

  “We were suddenly bearing our hearts to each other.” — Jodi Bruce (04:02)
  “The big phrase that comes back to me… is, What stops you from doing that?” — Jodi Bruce (04:30)

• Group Intensity:

  “When there was a small group of us who were into this, that’s all we talked about.” — Don McCormack (08:05)
  “We became unattractive people to be friends with.” — Don McCormack (08:16)

• Excess Confidence:

  “There was definitely this feeling you could go in and clear out the psychiatric ward of a hospital… what you’re doing here is life changing and world changing.”
  — Robert Diltz (08:50)

• Manipulation and Harm:

  “It was a game for them to see how they could manipulate and control people and they could share that laugh with each other… They took my permission as my therapist to go too far.”
  — Debra Canter Morton (10:11, 14:43)

• The Christmas Party Incident:

  “Standing up there with my legs and my arms strapped onto a cross. I said, this is Christmas, not Easter. And I think Richard said, ‘for whom?’” — Debra Canter Morton (13:15-13:22)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• [02:17–06:10]: Early participants describe initial attraction and the intense dynamic of peer-led therapy
• [06:31–08:50]: Techniques, results, group lifestyle, and expanding NLP’s reach
• [09:23–10:39]: Testing therapies on psychiatric patients, ethical gray areas
• [10:53–11:26]: Romantic/sexual entanglements and group boundary violations
• [11:26–14:43]: The traumatic “Christmas Party” incident
• [15:47–16:10]: Aftermath, departures, and participant reflections

Tone and Approach

The episode maintains an investigative, sometimes incredulous tone. There is a strong sense of unease and ethical questioning throughout, balanced by empathy for participants who sought healing and instead found manipulation and harm.

Conclusion

Mind Games asks hard questions about the responsibility of anyone who wields psychological influence and the dangers of unchecked authority in therapeutic contexts. This preview episode sets the stage for a deeper exploration into how well-meaning experiments can spiral into abuse of power — a theme with striking parallels to the main subject matter of SEQUESTERED.

To hear the rest of the Mind Games series, follow wherever you get your podcasts.