The Shenandoah Park Murders | BONUS Episode

Summary

SEQUESTERED Podcast – Season 3 BONUS: The Shenandoah Park Murders

Released: December 1, 2025
Hosts: Sarah Reid & Andrea Clyde
Topic: Reflecting on the 1996 murders of Julie Williams and Lollie Winans in Shenandoah National Park, the evolving investigation, and listener questions following new DNA revelations.

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Episode Overview

In this bonus episode, Sarah and Andrea revisit the resonant case of Julie Williams and Lollie Winans, whose tragic murders in 1996 haunted their families and the camping community for decades. With a recent DNA match pointing to Walter Leo Jackson Sr., the hosts address lingering questions, connections to other unsolved crimes, and what the story reveals about safety, justice, and moving through the world as women.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why This Story Resonates

• Personal Connection:
  • Both hosts are avid campers and hikers, often experiencing the tension between finding peace in nature and staying vigilant as women.

    “As women, we've also had to learn how to hold two things at once. The feeling of both being safe and still having to be very aware of our surroundings.” — Sarah (00:53)

• Universal Themes:
  • The case is about more than the crime itself—it’s about trust, vulnerability, and the longing for peace in wild spaces.

    “It's about what it means to move through the world, especially as women, and trust that the places that are meant to bring us peace will let you come home.” — Andrea (02:03)

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Listener Questions & Unanswered Mysteries

Safety in Nature & The Investigation

• Central Questions:
  • What does it mean to feel safe in nature? What are the implications when safety is shattered?

    “What happens when that safety is broken?” — Andrea (02:26)

• Ongoing Impact:
  • Listener responses highlight how deeply this story lingers, with people reflecting on their own camping experiences and fears.

The DNA Breakthrough & Walter Leo Jackson Sr.

• Official Closure:
  • A DNA match finally identified Jackson, but many questions remain about what really happened.

    “The official story ends with a name, Walter Leo Jackson Sr. And a DNA match that finally gave this case a voice. But for the people who followed it, the story doesn't stop there.” — Sarah (03:06)

• Limitations of Science:
  • Even with forensic evidence, much remains unknown about motives and circumstances.

    “Even when the science speaks, there's a lot that the story can't tell us.” — Andrea (03:19)

The Attack on Yvonne Malbasha

• Listener Curiosity:
  • Many asked about Yvonne Malbasha, attacked on Skyline Drive a year later, and how her story influenced the investigation.

    “Yvonne was out there doing something totally ordinary, training, riding her bike. And suddenly this man in a truck starts trying to run her off the road, right?” — Andrea (04:01)

• Patterns of Threat:
  • Repeated crimes against women in remote settings—a pattern with disturbing implications.

    “Independence mistaken as opportunity, freedom that becomes threat.” — Sarah (04:33)

• Unreported Incidents:
  • Reflecting on how many similar threats or near-misses go unreported and unnoticed until tragedy strikes.

Crime Scene Questions

• Killer’s Access:

  • Listeners wonder if the killer camped in the park or simply entered for the day.

    “That’s one of those things investigators never confirmed. But looking at the geography, it's possible he entered from Skyline Drive.” — Sarah (05:31)

  • Explanation: The campsite was close to Skyland Resort but hidden; the attacker could have parked nearby and remained undetected.

• Delayed Discovery:

  • Shenandoah Park’s vastness delayed rescue, costing precious evidence and clarity.

    “Their tent was hidden from sight. From the trail, you could walk right past it and never even know it was there.” — Sarah (06:08)

• Was it a Hate Crime?

  • No direct evidence but indicators suggest the attack was not random, given the brutality and method.

    “There's no direct proof it was a hate crime, but the brutality, like the bindings and the precision, it suggests it wasn't random.” — Sarah (06:31)

Scope of Jackson’s Crimes

• His Record:

  • Jackson’s criminal history spanned states and decades, but gaps in DNA technology and interconnectedness meant he evaded justice.

    “At the time, DNA testing was limited, databases weren't connected, and so he just kept slipping through the cracks.” — Sarah (07:46)

• Technology’s Role:

  • Initiatives like the Sexual Assault Kit Initiative gave the evidence a “second chance to speak.”

    “That's why programs like the Sexual Assault Kit Initiative were so important in this case, they gave forgotten evidence a second chance to speak. And that's literally how this case broke open.” — Sarah (08:07)

• Unanswered: Jackson’s Confession & Scope:

  • Jackson never confessed publicly. There may be more victims left unconnected.

    “His pattern spans decades and geography. It's very possible we still don't know the full scope of what he did.” — Sarah (08:29)

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Connections to Other Cases

Colonial Parkway Murders

• Similarities & Local Lore:
  • Listeners drew parallels to the Colonial Parkway killings (1986–1989), where couples were killed in remote Virginia sites.

    “Four young couples were found dead... They were discovered in or near their cars, often parked in remote overlooks.” — Sarah (09:18)

• Possible Links:
  • Though not proven, the similarities are eerie—remote locations, couples, signs of targeting queer women.

    “Their attacks were marked by control and precision.” — Andrea (10:26)

• Ongoing Investigations:
  • Unlike Shenandoah, Colonial Parkway cases remain unsolved, with current technology still holding promise for a breakthrough.

Enduring Fear in Supposed Sanctuaries

• Wilderness as Double-Edged:
  • Both parks represent peace yet are marked by violence, fundamentally changing their meaning for visitors.

    “The Colonial Parkway and Shenandoah... are only hours apart. Both places meant to inspire peace and freedom. Both forever marked by fear.” — Andrea (10:50)

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On Safety, Grief, and Reclaiming Freedom

• Loss of Innocence:
  • Julie and Lollie’s carefulness highlights the truth that experience doesn’t guarantee safety.

    “They planned carefully, packed responsibly, and were confident on the trail. They came to the mountains seeking stillness and they deserved safety.” — Sarah (11:02)

• Broader Message:
  • The case sparks conversation about who is allowed to feel safe in the world, especially women, queer people, and marginalized groups.

    “For a lot of people, especially women, queer people, anyone who's ever had to move through the world on alert, safety isn't guaranteed.” — Sarah (11:25)

• The Search for Return:
  • The enduring question is how, or if, anyone can ever feel safe again.

    “What does it take to feel safe again once you've seen how fragile it really is?” — Sarah (11:52)

• Legacy of Julie and Lollie:
  • Their legacy is not just about loss, but about the courage to reclaim joy and freedom in wild places.

    “They remind us why it's worth reclaiming that sense of freedom, even when the world tells us to be afraid.” — Andrea (12:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Crimes like these aren't just acts of violence. They're violations of space, of safety. And the idea that you can exist in the world freely.” — Sarah (04:33)
• “One small twist of fate and this entire timeline might look different.” — Andrea (05:17)
• “The silence made it nearly impossible to track him for decades.” — Sarah (05:55)
• “It's unreal to think about how many crimes from that era could have been solved now if the evidence had been saved or tested.” — Andrea (07:59)
• “Some families get answers and others are still waiting for that same break.” — Andrea (10:40)

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Special Segment: The Music of Season 3 (12:17)

• Andrew Golden’s “Shenandoah” (12:17)
  • The season’s music, performed by Nashville musician Andrew Golden, encapsulates the emotional landscape of the series and the Park.
  • Sarah shares her personal connection to Andrew and his ties to Shenandoah’s landscape.

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Resources & Further Information

• More case details, photos, and investigative material: sequesteredpod.com
• For fans of the series: encouragement to rate and review the podcast, and check out Andrew Golden’s music.

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Closing Reflection

This bonus episode offers not only answers to lingering questions but also a meditation on what it means to seek safety, justice, and peace in a world where such things are far from automatic. The voices of Julie and Lollie, and the echoes of those still seeking closure, invite listeners to honor vulnerability, demand accountability, and reclaim freedom in the wild.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, guys. I'm Sarah.

[B]

And I'm Andrea.

[A]

And this is the bonus episode for Sequestered Season three, the Shenandoah Park Murders.

[B]

Before we get into your questions, we wanted to share a little bit about why we chose this story and why it's one that has stayed with us.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, we both love camping. You and I go on this epic road trip every summer, and we usually have the privilege to stay at nicer campgrounds, but there have been times when we've ended up in some pretty weird campgrounds.

[B]

Yeah, I remember one that was a state park in the hills of Southern California, and we pulled in, looked around, and pulled right back out.

[A]

Yep, that's right.

[B]

I'll say. I have a love for the Appalachian Trail, too. I had a chance to hike around 15 miles of it a few years back, and it's one of the most special places.

[A]

I think the best part is that when you're out there, like, when you're in nature, it just feels so peaceful. Like, there's no schedule. It's just you, the trees, sky, and whoever else is camping or hiking around you. In fact, I always say, especially when we're at a campground, we happen to pick the same weekend as all of these people there. So we're all experiencing this environment at the same time. And unfortunately, as women, we've also had to learn how to hold two things at once. The feeling of both being safe and still having to be very aware of our surroundings.

[B]

Yeah. Every woman who's camped alone has thought this through. Who else is around? Do I have some sort of weapon just in case? Does anyone know exactly where I am tonight?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. We have to keep an eye around us, because you just never know.

[A]

Right. Very vigilant. And that's what drew us to Julie and Lolly's story. They weren't on just a random camping trip. They were experienced, smart, and careful. They loved being in the wilderness the same way we do, you know? Yeah.

[B]

Their story isn't just about what happened to them. It's about what it means to move through the world, especially as women, and trust that the places that are meant to bring us peace will let you come home. Right.

[A]

And that question became the heart of season three. And it's the reason we wanted to return one last time to reflect on all the questions that still remain.

[B]

So when we started researching this case, we both kept coming back to one question. What does it mean to feel safe in nature? And what happens when that safety is broken? We weren't quite ready to say Goodbye to season three just yet. Since the Shenandoah park murders aired, we've received so many messages from listeners, from hikers, from people who still remember hearing about Julie and lally back in 1996.

[A]

And so many of those messages had questions, thoughtful, lingering ones that we've been asking ourselves, too. Questions that live somewhere between heartbreak and curiosity.

[B]

So today, we're going to try and revisit a few of them.

[A]

The official story ends with a name, Walter Leo Jackson Sr. And a DNA match that finally gave this case a voice. But for the people who followed it, the story doesn't stop there.

[B]

Because even when the science speaks, there's a lot that the story can't tell us.

[A]

So today, we're taking time to talk through the questions that remain. What we know, what we still don't, and what this case, nearly three decades later, still means for the people who loved Julian Lawley and for anyone who's ever searched for peace in the wild.

[B]

And maybe what it tells us about justice, how even when the truth finally comes, it can still feel too late.

[A]

One question that's come up a lot is about the cyclist Yvonne Malbasha, the woman Darrell David Rice attacked on skyline Drive in 1997, about a year after Julie and Lally were killed.

[B]

That story is chilling. Yvonne was out there doing something totally ordinary, training, riding her bike. And suddenly this man in a truck starts trying to run her off the road, right?

[A]

Like he yells, slurs at her. He's screaming things meant to humiliate her. But she fought back. She survived. And that attack is what eventually led investigators to Rice.

[B]

When I heard that story, I thought about Tara Calico from our season two episodes. She was also tracked down by somebody in a truck and was riding her bike.

[A]

Exactly. Two women, two different decades, but the same pattern. Independence mistaken as opportunity, freedom that becomes threat. Crimes like these aren't just acts of violence. They're violations of space, of safety. And the idea that you can exist in the world freely.

[B]

And it makes you wonder, how many women or anyone really have been followed, threatened or scared like that, but never reported it because the story didn't feel big enough, right?

[A]

Until it is. And I think listeners might also wonder, what if Yvonne hadn't survived? Would the case against Rice ever have happened? Would his name have ever entered the Shenandoah conversation?

[B]

That's such an unsettling thought. One small twist of fate in this entire timeline might look different. We got a lot of questions asking. Was the killer camping too, or did he just come in for the day?

[A]

Yeah, that's one of those things investigators never confirmed. But looking at the geography, it's possible he entered from Skyline Drive. Julie and Lally's site wasn't remote, as we know. It was off a short trail near Skyland Resort and tucked down an embankment, close enough to reach by foot, but still out of view.

[B]

So he could have parked nearby, hiked down, and no one may have noticed.

[A]

Exactly. There were no witnesses who saw him there, no one who remembered his face. That silence made it nearly impossible to track him for decades.

[B]

Another question was, why did it take so long to find Julie and Lollie?

[A]

Yeah, their families reported them missing. But Shenandoah is massive. Over 200,000 acres. Rangers started searching where they thought the women might be, but their tent was hidden from sight. From the trail, you could walk right past it and never even know it was there.

[B]

That's heartbreaking, because that delay didn't just cost them evidence. It cost them a lot of clarity.

[A]

It did. And listeners also asked, were Julie and Lolly targeted because they were a couple? That's one of the hardest questions. There's no direct proof it was a hate crime, but the brutality, like the bindings and the precision, it suggests it wasn't random.

[B]

And if Walter Leo Jackson acted alone, what drove him? Was it control, hate, or power?

[A]

I don't know. Maybe all of it. But that's part of what makes this case so haunting. We'll never fully understand the why. Some of you also asked whether Jackson might have been stalking others in the park or if he'd been there before, like, did he know that site or did he watch them for days?

[B]

And I've wondered if their dog Taj might have barked or tried to protect them.

[A]

Right. Me, too.

[B]

Did the killer know how to silence that? We know Taj survived, but that detail is still hard to wrap your head around.

[A]

Exactly. I've thought about that, too. There's so much about that we'll never know. So when Walter Leo Jackson Sr. Was identified through DNA, a lot of people asked, how did a man with such a violent record go unnoticed for so long?

[B]

He'd been in and out of prison, right? Right.

[A]

Yes, for assaults, rapes, and kidnappings across Ohio and other states. Which is crazy, but at the time, DNA testing was limited, databases weren't connected, and so he just kept slipping through the cracks.

[B]

It's unreal to think about how many crimes from that era could have been solved now if the evidence had been saved or tested.

[A]

Right, and that's why programs like the Sexual Assault Kit Initiative Were so important in this case, they gave forgotten evidence a second chance to speak. And that's literally how this case broke open.

[B]

And you have to wonder how many other victims could be out there linked to Jackson, Whose case is never connected because the technology wasn't there yet.

[A]

Exactly. His pattern spans decades and geography. It's very possible we still don't know the full scope of what he did. Some of you also asked if Jackson ever confessed before he died. He didn't. At least not publicly. And that silence leaves a shadow. Did he know what his DNA would eventually reveal? Did he suspect the walls were closing in?

[B]

Or did he die thinking he'd gotten away with it?

[A]

Hmm. Yeah, Maybe both. During production, a lot of listeners brought up another unsolved string of murders. The Colonial Parkway killings. This was between 1986 and 1989. Eight people were murdered along that scenic drive in Virginia.

[B]

And that's not far from Shenandoah, right? Right.

[A]

Just a few hours away. The colonial Parkway stretches between Jamestown and Yorktown. It's a beautiful, quiet route that runs alongside the James River. I highly recommend it. Over the course of four years, four young couples were found dead. Some shot, some strangled, and some never found at all. They were discovered in or near their cars, Often parked in remote overlooks.

[B]

So couples just like Julie and lolli.

[A]

That's right. And in the very first case, Cathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski were believed to be a couple. They were found inside Thomas Honda Civic, pushed partially into the York River. That discovery, and the brutality of it, Fueled speculation that the killer might have been targeting queer women or couples.

[B]

So people wondered if the Shenandoah murders could be connected, Part of the same pattern.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. As far as I could tell, there's never been proof of that. But the similarities are pretty haunting. Couples in private moments, remote areas. And their attacks were marked by control and precision.

[B]

And even today, the families from those cases are still waiting for answers. That's what's so wild. The same technology that solved Shenandoah could solve Colonial Parkway. But the killer's DNA still hasn't been uploaded to codis.

[A]

Right. It's a reminder that progress is uneven, that some families get answers and others are still waiting for that sake. Same break.

[B]

The Colonial Parkway and Shenandoah, like you said, are only hours apart. Both places meant to inspire peace and freedom. Both forever marked by fear.

[A]

We know Julie and Lale weren't naive. They were experienced outdoors women. They planned carefully, packed responsibly, and were confident on the trail. They came to the mountains seeking stillness and they deserved safety.

[B]

That's the part that gets me. Because so many of us go to nature to feel grounded, to feel peace, and they were robbed of that.

[A]

Yeah. When we talk about this case, it's so easy to focus on the brutality. But what it leaves behind is a conversation about who feels safe and who doesn't. Because for a lot of people, especially women, queer people, anyone who's ever had to move through the world on alert, safety isn't guaranteed.

[B]

It's not inherited. It's something you have to earn moment by moment by reading your surroundings.

[A]

Yeah. And maybe that's what's at the heart of it. Like, what does it take to feel safe again once you've seen how fragile it really is?

[B]

And I think that's what keeps people coming back to this story. Because Julie and Lali's love, their courage and their joy in nature still mean something. They remind us why it's worth reclaiming that sense of freedom, even when the world tells us to be afraid.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so before we wrap up this bonus episode, we wanted to share something really special about the music you've been hearing this season. Specifically, the song Shenandoah by Andrew Golden.

[B]

Yeah. As we were shaping season three, we knew the sound of this story mattered. It's a season rooted in wilderness and this deep, quiet reverence for Shenandoah National Park. And Sarah came to me one day and said, I think I have the perfect song.

[A]

I did. So in my day to day job, I work with a touring artist and Andrew golden actually plays trumpet in that band. So that's how I know him. When he's not out on the road, he's actually everywhere in Nashville. He could be playing late night jazz rooms or little cocktail bars. They're the kind of places where you sit down and you immediately feel cooler than you actually are.

[B]

It's true. We went to see him one night at this cool speakeasy, and he introduced this song by sharing that he grew up near Shenandoah and how that area has stayed with him his whole life.

[A]

Andrew golden is the artist, and if you want to hear more of his music, which you absolutely should, you can find it on your favorite streaming platform.

[B]

If you have found meaning in Sequestered, would you take a moment and rate and review the series on your podcast app? It helps more people find these stories.

[A]

That's right. And if you'd like to see more from the Shenandoah case, photos, articles, even video from the investigation, you can visit sequesteredpod.com I'm Sarah Reid.

[B]

And I'm Andrea. Clyde.

[A]

Thanks for listening.