386: 18 Year Old Dies Months After 4 Hour Assault by Her Own Father | Justice for Makayla Settles

Summary

Serialously with Annie Elise

Episode 386: 18-Year-Old Dies Months After 4-Hour Assault by Her Own Father | Justice for Makayla Settles

Date: April 16, 2026
Guest: Dr. Leslie Dobson (Forensic Psychologist)

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Overview

This episode tackles the devastating and underreported case of Makayla Settles, an 18-year-old who died by suicide months after surviving a brutal four-hour sexual assault perpetrated by her biological father. Host Annie Elise, joined by Dr. Leslie Dobson, gives listeners a detailed, step-by-step journey through Makayla’s story—from her move to California, through the assault and the criminal/legal aftermath, and finally to the ongoing fight for justice. There is a strong emphasis on community action, systemic failings, and the call for accountability in the justice system.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Makayla’s Background and Move to California (03:00–04:00)

• Makayla Settles, just turned 18, lived in North Carolina with her mother; her parents were never married.
• She moved to Moorpark, California in July 2025 to start college and pursue a new chapter, staying with her biological father who worked as an electrician.

Quote (Dr. Dobson, 03:00):
“Makayla was 18, just turned 18, and she was living in North Carolina with her mom...wanted to come over to Moorpark and go to Moorpark College. She had future dreams and plans.”

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2. Assault and Immediate Aftermath (04:00–08:30)

• Just two days after arriving, Makayla was subjected to a four-hour sexual assault by her father (2am–6am).
• She immediately called her mother, who was distraught:
  Quote (Mother’s account, 06:08):
  "Absolutely horrified, distraught. In her mom's words, 'oh my God, he killed my daughter.'"
• Makayla was unable to walk due to injuries—her uncle (mother’s brother) carried her into the hospital for a SANE (sexual assault) exam.
• The exam was thorough and traumatic; her hospital gown was saturated with blood (08:24).

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3. Initial Legal Action and Charges (08:40–13:00)

• The father was arrested, initially charged with:
  • Felony incest (PC285)
  • Felony: taking advantage of position of trust
  • Felony: victimizing a vulnerable person
  • Misdemeanor: supplying alcohol to a minor
• DNA evidence confirmed his semen inside Makayla, despite his denials and claims of being "blackout drunk."
  Quote (12:19):
  "The DNA is back." And his response was, "yeah, well, I'm sure she tells the truth about a lot of things."
• He shifted blame, attempted to gaslight, and claimed he was the victim—classic DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim/offender) behavior.

Quote (Dr. Dobson, 14:19):
“Darvo. Right. Deny, ...he knows he is wrong and now he wants to become the victim.”

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4. Bail Controversy and Systemic Failures (15:45–17:07)

• Bail initially set at $1 million, reduced to $25,000—he walked out after posting $2,500–$25,000.
• Concerns raised about witness intimidation and his status as a flight risk.
• Community outrage over how the Ventura County Superior Court handled bail, echoing the lack of urgency for such a severe allegation.

Quote (16:15):
“They let him walk. ...He's a flight risk. The whole world is aware of this.”

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5. Makayla’s Declining Mental Health and Death (18:12–21:16)

• For weeks hospitalized from the physical trauma, then returned to North Carolina.
• Exhibited erratic behavior: impulsivity, depressive episodes, “psychologically couldn’t” continue with the criminal process.
• December 2025 (about five months later), Makayla died by suicide.
• Journals revealed she blamed herself and questioned why her father did this to her.

Quote (22:04):
“A lot of it was, ‘why, why, why? What did I do that made him do this to me? What did I do that made him think that this was okay?’”

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6. Ongoing Legal Battle and Accountability Issues (24:02–46:36)

• Despite DNA evidence, the challenge is Makayla can no longer testify; DA reduced or dropped some charges.
• Family faces stonewalling and lack of response from Ventura County DA.
• Community and social media pressure forcing court officials to respond at higher authority levels.
• Next hearing is on April 21st, 2026—mass protest and public pressure planned.

Quote (Annie Elise, 32:01):
“So it's very possible that in a week's time, this guy could walk scot free while his daughter was brutalized for over four hours and then took her life because of it.”

Quote (Dr. Dobson, 33:15):
“...you have a district attorney running for reelection in a conservative area, and to the people of Ventura county, this is fucking horrifying.”

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7. Family’s Experience and Community Call to Action (32:15–46:36)

• Family is traumatized, overwhelmed, still processing the events.
• Facing exploitation attempts by would-be advisors and lawyers, they seek trustworthy help.
• Dr. Dobson stresses the importance of public involvement: emailing, calling, and physically protesting to ensure accountability.
• Discusses the need for legal and systemic reform (guardianship, support for 18-year-olds unable to advocate for themselves after trauma).

Quote (Dr. Dobson, 45:27):
“I mean, ideally, what we would do is pass a law or pass a bill or change the way this goes. ...What we have right now for the family is we need to get loud. We need to show up. We need to share this with everyone.”

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8. Predators, Systemic Lapses, and Social Responsibility (52:14–56:59)

• Conversation expands to broader issues of sexual assault, predator psychology, and failures in California’s treatment of offenders.
• Dr. Dobson emphasized offenders are not rehabilitated by age or castration—it’s about power, not sexual release.
• Funds and GoFundMe promoted to support the family and future civil action.

Quote (Dr. Dobson, 54:19):
“Sexual assault is not about an orgasm. No, it's about power and authority and delusion and cognitive distortion...”

Call to Action (46:13, 51:31):
“Locals, of course, can show up to the courthouse...They want the attorney to force him to register as a sex offender because he won't be able to work as an electrician any longer.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the reality of legal inertia:
  “Police and lawyers are lazy and they don't do anything and they won't do anything until they feel the pressure of the public.” (41:03)
• On communities’ role:
  “We're on TikTok. We're on Instagram. ... We need to educate them and we can do that in emails. They're reading them and replying.” (48:00)
• On victims’ challenges in the system:
  “For five months, we could have saved this girl, but because she was 18, we couldn't access so much. Her mom couldn't access so much.” (45:27)
• On the systemic risks:
  “The severity, the degree, the relationship all tells me this wasn't the first time.” (50:51)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:00 – Life before the move; Makayla’s family situation.
• 04:00–08:30 – The assault, hospital visit, and immediate police response.
• 11:33 – DNA evidence recovered; father’s denial.
• 15:54 – Bail reduction sequence and release of suspect.
• 19:52 – Makayla’s suicide; contextualizing the trauma.
• 22:04 – Excerpts from her journals; self-blame.
• 24:02 – Legal status, upcoming hearing, and public mobilization.
• 32:15 – Family’s emotional state and navigating “clickbait” exploitation.
• 33:13/46:36 – Community advocacy, emails, protests, and practical next steps.
• 50:51 – Pattern of predatory behavior and risk to the community.

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Call to Action

• Attend or protest outside the Ventura Superior Court on April 21st, 2026.
• Support the family’s GoFundMe (for legal/civil action and travel).
• Raise awareness: share Makayla’s story, contact the Ventura County DA’s office, and demand accountability.
• Encourage systemic legal reform for young adult victims and their families.

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Closing

The episode is a sobering, detail-rich account of Makayla Settles’ case and a raging indictment of institutional apathy in sexual assault and incest cases. Annie Elise and Dr. Leslie Dobson urge listeners to use collective advocacy for justice—reminding us that public pressure can be the difference between a case forgotten and a precedent set.

Closing reminder:
“Be nice, don't kill people, don't be a creep. And... keep your dick in your hands and your pants.” (57:00)

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Resources and further links can be found in the show notes.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hello, hello, hello. And welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Lessly with me, Annie Elise. And today we are going to be diving into a case that's happening right now, one that many of you have probably seen on your social media, whether on TikTok, on Instagram, you've seen people post about it, people calling for justice, people outraged. And so I what I wanted to do is take today as an opportunity to highlight this case. Not only discuss everything involved and what's been going on, but also a very important call to action where so many of you can actually directly get involved. Because I know once you hear this case, you are going to be just as I great and disgusted as I am. And so for today's case, I also am joined by Dr. Leslie Dobson, who I know is a familiar name and face to many of you. She's been on here in the past when we've done some deep dives into the Epstein files. She was on here about a year ago when we were talking about family vlogging and some of the dangers there. She's a forensic psychologist and she has been covering this case very, very closely, speaking with family members, speaking with lawyers, and really getting into what the truth is and how this happen. So welcome. Thanks for coming back.

[C]

Dr. Leslie thanks for having me.

[B]

Thank you for coming.

[C]

I want the world to be aware of this case.

[B]

I know. And so you first started talking about this case on social media. And for those who don't know, it is the Michaela Settles case. She is a young girl who moved from North Carolina to California. And I'm not going to get ahead of it. We're going to walk you through everything. But you first put this on TikTok. It blew up overnight. People could not believe what they were watching. I've seen your video, too. I'm like, how is this even real? And now it's starting to take flight with a Lot of people talking about it. But still, for some reason, at least at the time of this recording, not many mass media outlets have picked up this story, which is insane.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And so frustrating. So why don't you walk us through. Let's start at the very beginning.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Who Michaela was, her age when she moved, why she moved, and let's slowly start going through it.

[C]

Sure. So Michaela was 18, just turned 18, and she was living in North Carolina with her mom. I don't think her mom and dad were ever, her biological parents were ever married. But she wanted to live the California life. And her father was living in Moore Park, California. He works as an electrician. And she wanted to come over to Moore park and go to Moore Park College. She had future dreams and plans.

[B]

California? Yeah. Graduate from high school, move across the country to California, start your life as a young adult, go to school and live. You know, I guess I would say the dream, but I guess living in California isn't exactly the dream all the time.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So she moves to Moorpark.

[C]

So she moves and it's July 2025, and within two days, two days of arriving to California. Correct.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Allegedly experiences the most horrific sexual act by her biological father from 2 to 6am in the morning.

[B]

In four hours.

[C]

For four hours now.

[B]

Okay. And we need, we definitely need to talk about all of that because I think the details of this and the aftermath is what's so upsetting. But what was the real. You've talked with Michaela's cousin, her mother, you've talked with so many people close to Michaela and involved in this investigation and case. What was Mikayla's relationship like with her father prior to moving? Was he involved? Was he a good co parent? Did they spend time together, talk to each other? What was that like?

[C]

They had casual interactions where she would come out and visit for a while and then go back to North Carolina. But it doesn't sound to me like he was ever a primary caretaker.

[B]

And when she would return to North Carolina, did she ever raise any sort of red flags about his behavior or concerns that she had to her mother or to anybody else?

[C]

And no. And also she was a very youthful 18 year old, as many are right now because of COVID and all of the setbacks we've had. So she was very youthful and you can see in her videos she would dance, she called her mom mommy up until the day she lost her life. Um, and so she, she didn't talk. She didn't. I don't even know that she would realize what was happening if negative things happened during these visits, if he had

[B]

been grooming or trying to feel things out or being inappropriate. She was so innocent that she looked at encounters as innocent or would have or could have, perhaps.

[C]

And that's how her friends describe her and her family. And you'll see in the videos she looks very innocent and young.

[B]

So she moves here in July. She's with her dad, living with her biological father in Moorpark for two days.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

And then he violently sexually assaults her for four hours from 2am to 6am

[C]

she told her mom this immediately.

[B]

She called her.

[C]

She called her. Her mom was in town, her mom

[B]

was in California and. But not staying there, of course, cuz they weren't together. So did she call her at what, 6:00am right after. Did she.

[C]

Wait, it was around 6:30, I believe. And then immediately.

[B]

How did her mom say that she sounded when she called?

[C]

Absolutely horrified, distraught. In her mom's words, she said, oh my God, he killed my daughter.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

And she was still alive at that point.

[B]

And when, from what we know before, we keep going further, was this something where the father was just infatuated with his daughter? Where we've unfortunately seen cases like that where he was a predator, a pedo. Was he intoxicated? What was that? What was that moment, those four hours like from his mental state?

[C]

Well, he engaged in text messages back and forth with the mother for a

[B]

while after this, after this all took place.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Okay, so maybe that's where we start. We should rewind and start. So Michaela calls her mom immediately after this happens, just distraught and horrified and beside herself. And then what happens?

[C]

They go to the hospital to get a formal rape kit done. She can't even walk.

[B]

And did her father just let her leave the house? She ran out or.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I don't know if she got. I think she got picked up, but I'm not sure. Okay, but the mother gets to the uncle and who's the father's brother? No, who is the mother's brother.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And he has to carry her into the hospital because she can't even walk

[B]

because that's how brutal this assault was.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So she's going to the hospital with her family to get a sane exam.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And because there was so much damage inflicted and it was so forceful, he had to carry her.

[C]

Right. And then once she's in the hospital gown, which you get, you take off everything, you're in a gown. They don't want to mess up any DNA. It's so. I mean, if you watch the recent episode of the Pit, they did one of these kits and they really, really.

[B]

It's very thorough.

[C]

It's thorough. And they did a really good job explaining it on the. On a fictional TV show.

[B]

It's good because I feel like you need to be informed and educated on that. Especially, God forbid, if you're ever a victim of a situation like that. They are incredibly thorough to the point where it can be traumatizing, uncomfortable, and awful for a victim to have to then experience a second violation of sorts.

[C]

Yeah. And it takes hours. It takes hours.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So what they determined was that she had been assaulted.

[B]

And you said they put her in the hospital gown.

[C]

Put her in the hospital gown and it became saturated by blood.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

And she's 98 pounds.

[B]

So they do the SANE exam. What's happening with the father at this point?

[C]

They are also filing a police report, and the police, during. Around the same time arrest him.

[B]

Okay. And what do you know what they

[C]

exactly charged him with initially? They charged him with manipulating. I have it. Incest.

[B]

Oh, they charged him with incest.

[C]

Initially.

[B]

Initially. Okay. And so the guys, while Dr. Leslie pulls this up, this was all happening right around the time when Michaela goes to the hospital. They're filing this police report simultaneously. He's being investigated, he's being arrested. We'll see what those initial charges were. And it appears as though it's at least taking a step in the right direction for receiving some sort of justice or accountability. Not that that makes anything go away or makes it okay, obviously, but that people were believing her. They were seeing the evidence, and they were now going to hold this monster accountable and try to figure out what the hell happened. Because also, too, we don't know, obviously, what the dynamic was like prior to her moving there. We don't know if there were moments where she wasn't able to identify him potentially trying to groom her or being inappropriate. But this is a very stark difference from moving for two days and then something like this so violently happening.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Okay. So it looks like you pulled up the charges.

[C]

Right. So initially arrested on a. Let's see, three felony counts and one misdemeanor. So felony PC285, which I believe is incest. Let me see if I have it spelled out a little more clear.

[B]

If you have the things, I can pull it up on my phone as well. The exact breakout. But I know you have, like, so many screenshots and documents, so. Yeah, this is PC285 is incest.

[C]

Incest. Okay. And then we have a felony count related to taking advantage of a position of trust. So let's start with, with incest. He pled not guilty with took taking advantage of a position of trust. He denied.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Or the court denied. I'm not exactly sure. They may have just said, we're not moving forward with that. There was a felony of victimizing a vulnerable person, which was denied. So again, could be the court or him. And then a misdemeanor of alcohol to a minor. And he pled not guilty.

[B]

Okay, so at this point with those charges, and you tell me, because I know you obviously have been talking with her family. He allegedly supplied Michaela with alcohol. Then there was she. There was some sort of exchange and assault on her from him. When they did the same exam, did they recover anything?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

What did they recover?

[C]

His semen was inside of her. Yes.

[B]

So even though he's denying and pleading not guilty to the PC285 charge, there is DNA evidence that was collected that would obviously prove that wrong completely. Because how else would that have gotten inside her body?

[C]

Correct. And two things happened with that. One, the mother, he was denying it, saying, I can't believe you called the police on me in text messages. And the mother, these are all published text messages as well on social medias. She said, well, the DNA is back. And his response was, yeah, well, I'm sure she tells the truth about a lot of things.

[B]

Okay, so just. Okay, hold the on. Yeah. So just so I'm understanding this correctly, they go and do the same exam. They file the police report. He then start. They charge him and arrest him. He then starts texting the biological mother, gaslighting her, being like she lies about a bunch of stuff. I wouldn't do this. Why would you even accuse me of this? Like, what are you guys thinking? To which she responds, like, well, they actually did the same kit and the DNA came back. And then he still continues to push the lie, saying, well, yeah, I bet she's not honest about a lot of things. Like, I'm sorry, you can't fake DNA inside semen that is in your body. Or you like, unlikely that an 18 year old girl would do that and have the knowledge of how to orchestrate that.

[C]

Right. And then he says, I was blackout drunk. But then he says, but she never screamed oh my God. Or said no.

[B]

So he's trying to now argue they were both drunk. Or he has. He not said she was drunk, just that he was blackout drunk. But we know he had the charge of giving a minor alcohol.

[C]

And.

[B]

And so then he's saying she didn't say no and she didn't scream, therefore trying to imply what? That it was consensual.

[C]

But then he remembers, right?

[B]

So. Oh yeah. So you're blackout drunk, but you remember enough that she consented.

[C]

So legally, as a forensic psychologist, that's an omission of guilt to me.

[B]

Yeah, well. And I mean, I'm just thinking at once it gets to trial, which hopefully it gets there and nothing happens. But in that moment, if this is all through text where he says she didn't scream, I was blackout drunk, but she didn't scream and she didn't say no or whatever he had said, it's like then that not only is alluding to that it was a consensual act, but right there with PC285, you're also admitting there was incest because you're admitting the act happened whether it was consensual or not.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So, yeah, from a, from a forensic psychologist angle, what do you make of his behavior, his reaction and what he's now trying. What in this moment he was trying to do?

[C]

Darvo. Right. Deny, reverse victim or I'm sorry, deny. Attacked reverse victim. So he knows he is wrong and now he wants to become the victim so that he doesn't look like he is guilty. And in one of the texts he says to her, I'm now getting death threats every day. Fuck it, I'm so hurt, I will defend myself.

[B]

So now he's saying this, he's the scapegoat in this whole thing, that it didn't happen. So did he say at any point Michaela wasn't even here at this house? Like, if he's going to say it wasn't me, then who the fuck was it? Who was she with? Was she at your house? Was she not at your house? Did you have friends over? Like, explain how this 18 year old girl had to be carried into a hospital, right. Was bloody all over her gown and had semen inside of her and is claiming it's you, but you're saying it's not. Then how did that happen?

[C]

He. That is probably going to be the defense, right? They're going to find these ways to get around it. And he starts to say, you know, you're. To the mother, like you're a loudmouth. The lawyers are going to take care of it. She always told the truth, I'm sure, with three exclamation points.

[B]

So trying to make Michaela look as though she's the liar.

[C]

And then the DNA is back and he writes, whatever, don't text me back.

[B]

During this. Was he vocal anywhere else? He was still. This was after he was arrested. But let's talk about the bail situation.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that is a point in this where when I first heard that, I can't even tell you, I couldn't see straight. I was so. Yeah. Upset.

[C]

And this is. This falls on the Ventura County Superior Court. District attorneys and the judge, they are

[B]

at fault for this 1000%. So originally they set his bail at

[C]

what, a million dollars?

[B]

A million. Which then he would need to post 100 grand. Then they reduced it to 500. Then they reduced it further and he

[C]

walked out at 25.

[B]

25 payment or 25 total.

[C]

So 25 total.

[B]

So he only had to post $2,500.

[C]

25,000.

[B]

Oh, he did. Okay, so they post. They reduced it from what, 500 to 250 or whatever.

[C]

Okay, Something.

[B]

Something like that. Okay. Because it's like the 3 to 10%. Right. So something that you have to pay depending.

[C]

But they let him walk. Who? Yeah. Now, you know, when he shows up, if he shows up to the hearing, he's a flight risk. The whole world is aware of this.

[B]

Well, and not even the flight risk piece of it, but obviously if he also had initial charges of, you know, taking advantage of a vulnerable minor and all of these things, you know, the position of trust and exploiting that, who's to say with this young 18 year old girl who's his daughter, that there's not going to be witness intimidation, that there's not going to be trying to silence her or. Or anything like that? Because this is such a severe charge and situation.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So they let him walk and this is when he starts texting the mother.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Okay, so then what happens then?

[C]

So she immediately. Well, when she is able to, because she was hospitalized for a while due to the injuries.

[B]

How long was Mikayla in the hospital?

[C]

I don't know the exact date.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But a few days, I think over a few weeks.

[B]

Oh, over a few weeks, yeah.

[C]

And then she returns back to North Carolina and.

[B]

Okay, I don't want to get overly graphic here, but if she's hospitalized for a few weeks, was it just internal injuries that they were. Was there any other sort of physical injuries?

[C]

I don't know exactly. There was an autopsy done, but everything is. Because it's an active criminal case. Everything is.

[B]

What do you mean there was an autopsy done on her body? Oh, well, okay. Getting further ahead. Got it. Got it. Okay. Sorry. Okay. I'm like, hold on. What are you talking about?

[C]

Sorry.

[B]

Okay. Sorry. Yes. We're jumping ahead a little bit. Okay. So she's in the hospital for potentially weeks, and then goes back to North Carolina. Right. With her mother.

[C]

And she is what you would assume a victim to be. She is acting impulsively. She's randomly happy, has energy, then dips into these major, major depressive moments. And no one really knew how to help her. But the problem is that she was 18, so her mom could not step in. And so they were trying to get her from North Carolina to navigate these

[B]

police charges, and Mikayla just didn't want to participate.

[C]

Or she couldn't. She psychologically couldn't.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

It is utterly ridiculous that they wouldn't let the mother speak for her, given the situation. Allegedly, a biological father rips you apart for four hours, and then you're supposed to be talking to detectives and investigators and victim advocates, and you have the mentality of, what, a 14, 15.

[B]

Right. Being treated as an adult and.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Extremely isolated life. Just innocent. An innocent little girl.

[B]

Yeah. So she's back in North Carolina now with her mom. This is What, August of 2025 at this point? August, September, they're trying to figure out what's happening, where this case is going. It's incredibly a huge weight that she is carrying, of course. And to your point, psych, like, psychologically ebbs and flows, peaks and valleys. Just going through all of these emotions and having very, very high highs and very, very low lows. And so then where does it go?

[C]

Very, very erratic. You know what? I don't actually know how she ended her life, but she did.

[B]

And when did she end her life?

[C]

I don't think I know how. It was December 2025, about five months after.

[B]

And she took her life.

[C]

Yes. And there's no question about her physically taking her life, although I don't remember why. But if you think about the Michelle Carter case in Massachusetts, she didn't take her life because she had planned to. She took her life because she couldn't manage the trauma of what had happened to her.

[B]

Michelle Carter.

[C]

Michelle Carter texted her boyfriend.

[B]

No. She ended up taking her life.

[C]

No, she's alive. She went to prison.

[B]

Oh, I know, I know. I thought. Sorry, I misheard. I thought you said she took her life too. No. Yeah. Where it was like, coercion and, like, she forced it. She backed him into a corner and, like, berated him until he took his life.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Yes. So you think that there's a possibility that maybe her father did that with her.

[C]

Well, in her mind, over that five month period, you know, that is what took her life, not actually her physically doing it.

[B]

Right? No, it was the deterioration of her mental state and everything that she was going through and the trauma.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That's the responsibility.

[C]

So in other states, that is easily involuntary manslaughter.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

In California, for a conservative DA who's running in this election this year, that is not clearly involuntary manslaughter, because you'd have to push very hard.

[B]

They look at the act itself who, for lack of a better term, pulled the trigger, and that's the responsible party. And I know you mentioned that you don't know the method in which she took her life, which. That's fine. We don't need to explore that. I don't think that that necessarily even matters in the grand scheme of things. But you've spoken with her mother, of course. And do you know, did she leave any sort of note behind? She did.

[C]

Uh, well, she had been journaling throughout the five month period. Uh, she was very verbal to her friends. She was texting, she was journaling. And she wrote notes to her mother who she called Mommy, and she said that this happened.

[B]

What else were. What was some of the contents of, like her journal entries and to her or the notes to her friends about where her mental state was and what she was thinking and what she was grappling with?

[C]

I think, I mean, a lot of it was. A lot of what she wrote was, why, why, why? What did I do that made him do this to me? What did I do that made him think that this was okay?

[B]

So she's taking on the blame, thinking

[C]

it's something that she did and actively trying to figure out, how did this happen?

[B]

How did this happen to me?

[C]

What was my part?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Was she receiving any sort of therapy or medical treatment in those five months, to your knowledge?

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I didn't ask. Because if I can help at all, I want to stay objective in this. So if I am able to be a part of this case and obtain the records, then I'll objectively review them.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But it does sound like all hands were on deck. Like friends. There are pictures. Everybody was trying to be there for her.

[B]

And what was happening within those five months?

[C]

What was he doing working as an electrician, entering people's homes who have children and getting drunk? The neighbors have all seen him at liquor stores. His exes have said that the whole family drinks heavy, heavy Amounts all the time.

[B]

So there was arguably an alcohol problem before this, and then it's just continued.

[C]

That's what I've been told through people. So it's all alleged, of course, but, yeah, people have been taking pictures of them going to the liquor store.

[B]

So December. I just want to go back to this for a moment. Michaela takes her life, and then what happens?

[C]

Nothing.

[B]

I mean, nobody does anything.

[C]

Her cousin works up the courage to make one single social media post, and

[B]

it took a lot of time, months, for people to recognize that. Is that what you first saw?

[C]

Somebody had sent it to me last week on Friday, and I was so enraged, I made a TikTok video and Instagram, too. But the TikTok rose to over 3 million views in three days because I think it's upset.

[B]

Anybody who views it and hears the details of this case are going to be extremely upset. Right, so since then, you've been in touch with her mother, her cousin, some attorneys. Walk me through what's happening right now, because we do have a very important hearing coming up on the 21st.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And as you mentioned, some of those charges have appeared to have fallen off a little bit. It doesn't appear he's going to be even held accountable in the least bit for her death. There's also the problem, which I don't know. I'm not an attorney, so I don't know how complex this can get. But you might be able to shed some light on this if he's pleading not guilty to the incest charge, and if he's also arguing that it was consensual, even though that's so contradictory now she's not there to testify against him and have a voice. And so it's his version of events versus the SANE exam, which still. The SANE exam, depending on the injuries, if she was in the hospital for weeks, it could prove that this was not consensual based on what was happening. But that's obviously a big risk, I would imagine, in what's happening and a concern for her family.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And so where. And let's really quickly, before we go into the conversations you've had with her mother and her cousin. Talk to me about the autopsy a little bit, because we were gonna. You were going in that direction of what the autopsy showed.

[C]

I don't have the details of it, and a lot is gonna be a part of the case, but I think the biggest part for me was that she was not pregnant.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

All right. That was my. A big question, because statistically, when there are Victims of incest. Ending your life when the pregnancy is revealed is, is the highest reason and risk.

[B]

I. I could have be misremembering this from a different case, but isn't it an option that they provide during the SANE exam to give you the more the morning after pill or like a termination. So it's possible that she took something, but we don't know obviously.

[C]

I would say in California definitely we still allow it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So yeah, yeah. But I don't know actually.

[B]

Okay. But she wasn't pregnant at the time of her death. So it wasn't that she found out she was pregnant and that that pushed her over the edge. It was something that she had just been dealing with for months to trying to come to terms with and figure out and ultimately could not bear it anymore.

[C]

Right. And so I mean the biggest finding from the autopsy was that she had ended her own life herself.

[B]

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[C]

No. Never?

[B]

Never.

[C]

She was a happy kid.

[B]

And did she get into any trouble or hang with the wrong crowds? Not that that excuses or justifies anything, obviously. Just thinking, like, what the argument could be from the defense of her mental state of. Oh, well, she had a history of. She had been on antidepressants at one point or she dropped out of school, or she would light her parents, she would run away to where it's like you can start to paint this picture. But she didn't have anything like that in her background.

[C]

Not that I'm aware of. I mean, it was just a, you know, run of the mill teen posting happy, sometimes thirst trap pictures like every teen does, you know, because teenagers are really skinny and they like to get attention on social media. Yeah, but she wanted to go to college. She wanted, she had good grades. She wanted to live a future oriented life.

[B]

And what has. Has the mother had any more contact with her biological father since that last text message?

[C]

No, not since that last message. And she's tried very hard to work with the Ventura County DA and the victim advocate. She's really gotten the runaround. And she's at the point where she is aware that the hearing is going to be on the 21st and it's going to be the state's attorney and then the defendant's attorney. And I, I'm not sure if Chavez even has to be there, but it's where the judge will decide if this is going to move forward as an actual case.

[B]

So it's very possible that in a week's time, this guy could walk scot free.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

While his daughter was brutalized for over four hours and then took her life because of it. Yes. So walk me through some of your conversations you've had with the family and what that's been like and what they've shared with you.

[C]

They're. They're horrified. They're. They're still in shock. Like when they, they talk about her, they talk about her like she's alive.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like they have to actively remember and remind themselves she's not alive.

[B]

Oh, my God. It's.

[C]

They're in a complete state of shock.

[B]

What a nightmare.

[C]

And to navigate, you know, Mom's back in North Carolina to navigate all of this from, you know, a fractured family, they're seeking advice. People are trying to mooch off them to get clickbait material, money. Lawyers are going to want to engage in civil lawsuits just to try and get fame.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so what I asked her to do was to just, you know, make sure you trust people that are giving you advice. She can trust me. I told her I would tell her if I saw any videos that came up, because bigger content creators have been posting people with millions and millions of views.

[B]

But is that great or are they.

[C]

I think it's great because you have a district attorney running for reelection in a conservative area, and to the people of Ventura county, this is fucking horrifying. Yeah.

[B]

And the people all over the country, hello. It's horrifying.

[C]

Right. But who do they care about?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Who's going to vote for them? Right. You know, they want to keep their jobs.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So what I've seen, actually, through all my followers, and a ton of people have just emailed and emailed and called the. The superior court, and the DA is. And, you know, it's not just one DA. There's a head DA and then there's a ton of other DAs. Right. And every time they get a reply, it's a template reply that we plan to attempt to move forward with prosecution, something like that. But the person that's replying keeps becoming a superior. So it was a superior, now it's the deputy, then it's a chief.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So as we push, they are taking this to higher levels of authoritative figures to respond to people.

[B]

What does that indicate to you? That they're getting nervous, that they're getting scared. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And no one has replied to me. No.

[B]

Well, I'm sure they don't want to, at least until, at minimum after the hearing, because they don't want to jeopardize anything, is my guess. I don't know.

[C]

Or I might, you know, let it all know. Right. I mean, no. People can post emails they've received, but it's right not. They're not gonna go viral.

[B]

And what's Mikayla's cousin sharing? We've spoken with her on the side as well. We're gonna be doing a way larger deep dive into this case, guys. But we're. I know you've had so many conversations with her. You spoke with her mother for two hours the other night. So what have some of those conversations been like? Obviously, they're still trying to understand how all of this happened. They're living in a state of shock. But what are they. I don't want to say, like, what are they trying to do? But, like, what is. What is the forward motion here? And, like, what can help them?

[C]

I. A lot of the questions were so innocent. Like, all of these cases where the Families, they've never experienced anything like this.

[B]

Yeah, it's like you don't even know where to navigate.

[C]

Right. And so I said, you know, what I don't want is to have a target on your back. You know, the cousin is still in the area, and we don't need a more park area. You know, if this man is capable of doing something like this, what is he capable of doing to the cousin? So there's a real threat to safety.

[B]

Do you know, based on your conversations with the cousin and the mother after he made. He posted bond and he bailed out, and after she returned home to North Carolina, was he ever in communication with Michaela? Did he text her? Did he try to silence her? Did he try to intimidate her?

[C]

I believe there was communication. I haven't seen it.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But I think there was a part of everyone trying to figure out what was happening, what had happened.

[B]

Like, was. I guess, I'm curious. Did she ever text him anything like, why did you do this to me? What ha. Like. Or him texting her, being like, why are you doing this to me? Just what kind of dynamic was between the two of them? I.

[C]

That sounds familiar to me.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But I don't know what the source was, and I haven't seen it.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But I know that there was this, like, Michaela was on a private journey to figuring this out. She was shutting down, and in doing that, she was reaching out to people to try and understand as well. And, you know, when someone wants to end their life, they. They near the end, they get quite happy because they know they don't have to live with the pain anymore. So around the end of that fifth month, she was. She was happy.

[B]

And nobody. Yeah, nobody would have seen any sort of warning signs or any indication that she was in such a dark place. She was going to take her life,

[C]

which leads everyone in the family to blame themselves.

[B]

Yeah, but that's such a. I mean, I get. I understand that, but that's such a tough spot to be in, to try to take on that burden.

[C]

And then you also have, you know, the dynamic of the family and culturally, and. Are they from El Salvador? It's just they're. They're. They are from a culture that doesn't talk about this kind of stuff. And so they're not all talking about it together. They're not all aligned. The people in Moorpark say that they are utterly shocked that these allegations are coming across to the father, that people that had some of his best friends are shocked by it.

[B]

Like, they Think he's an upstanding guy.

[C]

No one has said that. No, no, they've said they're just more

[B]

horrified and shocked by everything. Okay. Not like, I can't imagine he's such a great guy. I'm shocked that these allegations are out there casting doubt. More of like a holy. Like, what the hell is even happening?

[C]

But nobody has. Nobody has come to his side.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

At all.

[B]

I mean, how could you.

[C]

Right. I think people have witnessed, I think, like, drunken parties of the family, but I don't know the timeline if it was because, you know, I purposely boosted the videos directly to Moorpark. So everyone in that town, if you open up Instagram, you're getting a paid ad from Dr. Leslie about this.

[B]

Good.

[C]

Good.

[B]

As it should be. I mean, I get it. Innocent until proven guilty. But like, hello, like. Right, okay, so now what's happening at the hearing?

[C]

So it's a closed door hearing, but hundreds of people plan to go and protest at 8am on the 21st outside Ventura Superior Court to make sure that

[B]

this does move forward to.

[C]

To show the judge that we're outside.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's a small courthouse. You can hear, you can see.

[B]

And what does her family want in all of this? I mean, I would imagine, of course they want justice, but that's the easy answer. Right? So it's like they want. They wish that this nightmare never even existed and they didn't have to be dealing with this. But what is it in this moment that they would want other people to help with aside from just showing up at the hearing?

[C]

I think a few things. They. They have a GoFundMe.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

You know, that will help for potential civil litigation should they go down that avenue.

[B]

And her mother's expenses to be here when things happen. Okay.

[C]

She flying from North Carolina.

[B]

It adds up.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

They want. They want the attorney to force him to register as a sex offender because he won't be able to work as an electrician any longer.

[B]

Oh, I never even thought about that. But yeah, you can't be entering people's homes.

[C]

Yeah. Okay, so that's something the district attorney has to put forward and demand.

[B]

And if they did the. I mean, I'm just asking you based on. You have gone. You've been an expert on so many cases. Expert witness during trials based on your knowledge and what you've been exposed to, given that they performed a sane exam and collected DNA evidence. Does this guy even have a shot in hell of getting out of this?

[C]

Yeah, he has a big shot. How plausible. Deniability there's no longer a victim. Would mom testify in her on her behalf? Is it believable, even if it's clear

[B]

cut through DNA, that there was an act of incest that took place, which they could obviously plead that down 1000%. We've seen it done a million times.

[C]

I think the main question is going to be because this is his biological father, she's already going to carry his DNA. So now we need to take it to a level of where did the DNA come from? And it needs to be extremely specific so there needs to be experts involved that can break that down.

[B]

DNA is way different than like what's in your blood or your tissue or your hair versus what is external and collected inside of you.

[C]

But police and lawyers are lazy and they don't do anything and they won't do anything until they feel the pressure of the public. And so unless we push, they're not going to do anything with that kit. And then his lawyer will say, well it's just DNA. And then you've got an old judge who's like, eh, it's just I guess the same DNA. It literally is that stupid.

[B]

Even though they see the police report, the hospital records, everything. Yes, that is enraging.

[C]

It is lazy stupidity. In most police departments and with most lawyers. And I, I tell you this as lawyers hate lawyers because lawyers are lazy. Police hate other police departments because they're lazy. Firemen fight with police because they're always passing the buck on who has to deal with the erratic homeless person. Yeah, right. Like they, they don't want to work. And I say this as like a well over 10 year government employee. You fall into what can I do that is the least amount of my energy.

[B]

No, certainly that's just like a trope for like certain people there. I would, I mean I personally know lots of officers and attorneys who are hardworking and like want justice and like believe in the badge and everything they're doing. But what you're saying, just to be clear, I just want to make sure I'm hearing right, is more of these like segmented people who are, it's like over overall in something that's tough to pursue. They aren't going to push through the toughness in most cases.

[C]

Right. And that's true. I see a lot of police and firemen in therapy who are heroic and amazing individuals. But I also see them over time give up because the fight to get charges and prosecution is so hard. There's so much pushback. And so when a lot of people start With a lot of energy. And then they get faced with so much pushback because people care about themselves and their jobs or, you know, working in the state hospital system, everyone told me, don't report being assaulted by a patient unless there's three assaults, because no DA is gonna help you or pick that up, no matter the severity.

[B]

Now, I think. Do you think it's two reasons for that, that they don't wanna push through the hardness and they get just so beaten down that they lose the will to the. To fight. But do you also think for some of these elected positions, that it has to. It comes down to what is my conviction rate likely going to be? If I don't think that this is a slam dunk, I'm not going to take it. Because when I'm up for reelection, I want a 98% conviction rate, 100%. So rather than even putting the victim first and what's right, they care more about the perception and their longevity in their career. Wow.

[C]

And that's.

[B]

That's disheartening.

[C]

I don't know how it is around the world, but it's very American.

[B]

Yeah, that's. So as of right now, the hearing is only for the charges that we know of. There's obviously there. It would be great, but there's been no mention of any sort of manslaughter charges or anything like that. But there's the possibility of a civil suit for wrongful death or something.

[C]

They could come forward with more charges on the 21st, on April 21st.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

They could bring more. I mean, I don't think they expected the. The infamy of this. I don't think.

[B]

Do you think that there's enough evidence to have some sort of manslaughter charge attached? I mean, I know we probably all wish it, but real. What's realistic?

[C]

I think that if you got this in front of a jury. Yes, definitely. And the lawyers need to educate themselves on coercive control bills, and they need to be savvy with using other cases to their benefit, which is going to take a lot of work. They have to work on the case, and I don't think they expected to.

[B]

So where. I mean, I don't even want to say, like, where do we go from here? But where. Besides the hearing, where do we go from here? Is there anything else that her family has wanted to be made public that. And I know I mentioned we'll do the deep dive where we go way more into the family dynamics, the text messages, interviews, all of that, but I wanted to at least get this case out there and ahead of the hearing so people can hear. But what's. What are the next steps?

[C]

I mean, ideally, what we would do is pass a law or pass a bill or change the way this goes. Right. For five months, we could have saved this girl, but because she was 18, we couldn't access so much. Her mom couldn't access so much. So we have this high up standard of we need to change the system. Right. But what we have right now for the family is we need to get loud. We need to show up. We need to share this with everyone. We need to put the pressure on. We need to contact.

[B]

I love that you have all your notes here.

[C]

I know. We need to contact the D.A. tessa McCarty, the D.A. aaron Meister, the D.A. eric. No, I don't even know how you say his last name.

[B]

And locals, of course, can show up to the Courthouse on the 21st.

[C]

Yes. Eric Nasarenko is the DA for Ventura, the. The top notch guy who is a white male. So, I mean, there's. There's a lot of. Maybe there's corruption involved. Who knows? But unless we put pressure on.

[B]

The point is somebody needs to be held accountable.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

For what this girl not only experienced, but the aftermath of what she then did to herself. Because of this experience.

[C]

And as we've seen in a lot of cases, and your audience is so savvy, putting forward suggestions to attorneys. Works.

[B]

It does.

[C]

It really works. I can use it.

[B]

Absolutely. I will say this. The true crime community, although there are occasionally some bad apples and sometimes tip lines get flooded with bogus tips, and it shouldn't be that way. And it can deter things. It is, to your point, a savvy community who have the same shared goal of bringing. Holding people accountable, bringing justice to people. And a lot of them, to your point, do think outside of the box and think through, like, well, what about this? Or not even. Like, have you considered this? But what if we took this approach? And so it's scary sometimes, and it can be reckless to be like, if you guys know anything, say anything, because then that's when, like, tip lines get flooded. And yeah, people see a lead or a rumor on Facebook and they think it is a tip when it's evidence and they report it. So it's like, it's not that piece of it. It's more of the, what can we do to evoke change and real change?

[C]

I think we need to. The reality of the situation is that career lawyers don't always know new stuff. We do.

[B]

Right.

[C]

We're on TikTok. We're on Instagram. We're learning.

[B]

We know of other cases that you can cite and reference and to as you build things in.

[C]

I think we need to educate them and we can do that in emails. They're reading them and replying. We can send letters. We can go to the courthouse. We can talk to the clerks. We can call.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I really think it comes down to we need to put our brains together because they are probably not aware of the things that your audience will come up with.

[B]

Absolutely. You see, you guys hear that. You guys are also smart and savvy. I've been saying it for years, but it's nice to hear somebody else say it.

[C]

It's very true. And I've seen it play out in cases over and over. And it's simply because 1DAs are. They just have too many cases. They have. So they're flooded. They are just kind of used as bodies in the government.

[B]

Well, and for something like this, where the girl, where she's no longer alive, the victim is no longer alive, not only does it become more challenging to try, but then it becomes more complicated. So that would, I would imagine, get pushed to the back of the stack regardless because of just unfortunately, the reality of it.

[C]

But how are we going to stop this from happening to other girls again in the future without pushing forward with this case and making this a new case law that California follows?

[B]

Absolutely. So, okay, so what I would love to do, if you're open to it, is I know you're obviously, as we said, following this so closely and speaking with people as well. When we do have the deep dive come out soon, I would love to have you back on and we can talk through it. We will have, I believe, some of the family members on as well and just have a conversation about what happened at the hearing, where things are going. Hopefully they're not at a standstill at that point. So that hopefully not only is some real change going to happen, but that this alleged monster is held accountable. I mean, somebody who could do that to their own daughter after living with him for two days and four hours.

[C]

I spoke to a lawyer the other day and I was just like, what the hell is going on here? And he said, you know, I'm not a criminal lawyer, I'm a civil lawyer. But, man, wouldn't it be interesting to file civil litigation against the guy and have to depose the district attorney? That's a fabulous idea. Yeah, I didn't think of that.

[B]

Ways, to your point, get creative in

[C]

figuring this out to get information to reopen the case if we, if this doesn't go our way on the 21st. There's always ways to bring things back.

[B]

Yeah. Well, let's hope that this guy gets more charges even on the 21st and that they don't dismiss this because that

[C]

seemed to flight risk and just taken in immediately.

[B]

Yeah. There's no reason he should be walking around because not only the flight risk piece of it. I know the witness intimidation element is taken off the table, but this guy is clearly a predator. And I don't care if he's leaning on the fact that he has an alcohol issue or he drinks a lot or he's blackout. You are a predator. The fact that you could do this to your own daughter, who's to say you're not going to do it to anyone else? Who you walk into their house to fix their electricity.

[C]

The severity, the degree, the relationship all tells me this wasn't the first time.

[B]

Oh, the first time that you think he's assaulted someone.

[C]

Definitely. This is not a first time.

[B]

The brutality of it. You're right. You're right.

[C]

The brutality of it. But even with that said, we need justice. We need justice. This can't be pushed because she's not alive. This can't be pushed to the back of the list.

[B]

Yeah. If anything, it needs to be at the forefront so that we don't lose children, even though I know she was 18, but young adults or children to situations like this in the future. If we don't do anything, it's just gonna be Groundhog Day over and over.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Well, thank you. I really appreciate you joining and shedding some light on this. Yeah. So we will definitely keep following this closely. Let us know too in the comments if you guys have heard about this case, what you're hearing, what you think. I will leave in the show notes, the hearing details where you can get in touch, everything like that and let us know any questions you have too, for the follow up. And we can.

[C]

Yeah. And Stephen Chavez, you're welcome to reach out to me.

[B]

There you go. Call to action right there. Well, thank you for joining. Can you let everybody know where they can find you?

[C]

My website's drlesliedobson.com and then Instagram and TikTok are DrLesliedObson. And we will be making some TV shows coming up soon. I know.

[B]

That's great. I'm so excited for you.

[C]

My face will be forced upon you all.

[B]

I'm telling you, you need the podcast. I told you about because you are so knowledgeable when it comes to pedos, unfortunately, because you've worked with so many.

[C]

Annie wants me to just be the pedo doctor.

[B]

I do. I mean not just the pedo doctor, but like how to catch a pedo. I'm telling you because I know not only have worked with so many of them in the state hospitals and on cases and as an expert witness on cases, but you know how their psyche works, you know why this happens. So I think in turn you could provide a lot of education and knowledge to parents, to people, to myself, of like, how can we protect our kids? What signs can we look for? I don't know the statistic off the top of my head, but more times than not the assault happens with somebody in close proximity, someone you know, whether it's a family member, a family friend. So what are those signs to look for of grooming of too close of a relationship. And I, I know if you had something like that, I would be listening all the time because as a parent I want to protect my kids to the ends of the earth. So I really think you should consider it because you've been exposed to them, you've even shared with me offline some of the horrific things you've seen them do even once they're taken into custody. And I think it's like expose it, expose it all so that they don't get to hide in this dark, disgusting, filthy corner anymore where it's like the thing people don't talk about. It's like, like no, it needs to be shared so it can be avoided.

[C]

I mean literally, people don't know. I mean, Google, I say this all the time, Google Koalinga State Hospital. Yeah, Google the hospital. Look at where we place these predators. Look at their crimes.

[B]

Well, and now I forget, what is it a law, is it a bill? What it is where now in California they are releasing offenders who age out of the program at 60 or 65 years old. And even if they have had a surgery, string of assaults or statutory claim or whatever it is, they're now releasing them because of their age, which hi, I'm sorry, I see some very healthy 60 year olds out there who could absolutely be released on the street and go assault somebody again.

[C]

Right?

[B]

It is wild to me.

[C]

And sexual assault is not about an orgasm. No, it's about power and authority and delusion and cognitive distortion. And I've had guys blow their dicks off and still go sexually assault people.

[B]

Well, it's interesting you say that because

[C]

not a lot of guys Blow their dicks with you.

[B]

I was speaking to somebody, a professional, not long ago. Wasn't Matt Murphy who was it? I was talking to somebody offline about that because I was like, look, I am all of the mentality of, like, if somebody is convicted, not just charged, convicted of sexual assault or assaulting a minor or something like that. I don't care if it's physical castration or chemical castration. Castrate the bastard. And they told me they're like, that doesn't solve it because it's something embedded in their brain. To your point, it's not about the release. It's about the power. So then they would still do it just as a sodomy type way with an object or something like that. It doesn't even have to do with the physical body. It's everything mentally. And look, I'm obviously not a doctor, but I'm just gonna say I don't think you can reprogram that. I don't think you can rehabilitate those kinds of thoughts and desires and wishes. So lock them up. Throw away the key. I don't care if they're 60. I don't care if they're 80. Keep that away. Yeah, that's where I'm at.

[C]

And the world can hate on California. And they should hate on California because we treat these guys, we put them in the category of patients, not criminals. Which means they have access to the Internet. They have rights. We're paying $250,000 a year to hospitalize one of these guys.

[B]

You're lying. That's what it equates to.

[C]

It's probably. It's probably more now. Actually. That's. That's a little dated statistic. It's probably way more. No, that's how much we're paying. And the hospital is 2, 000 of them. There's eight state hospitals in California now. Go somewhere like Idaho and you get the firing squad.

[B]

Yeah. Amen. That's what. That's what I'd like to see policies

[C]

in California are, are they suck when it comes to sexual offenses. I think they're horrible. They're so awful. And that's why I fight so hard to just try and get somebody locked up.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If we can get them locked up in any which way, even if it's wealthy institutions and patient, at least they're away from vulnerable children and women.

[B]

Well, thank you. I really appreciate you being on. All right, guys, we will be back and talk with you again very soon on this case. Like I said, let me know your thoughts and what you are hearing or have heard about this case in the comments. I will leave all of the resource links in the show notes. And until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, don't be a creep. And I don't even keep your dick

[C]

in your hands and your pants.

[B]

Thank you. Amen. Amen. Hi.