296: One Night in Idaho: Friends Who Found Victims Speak Out & Bryan Kohberger’s True Motive

Summary

Serialously with Annie Elise - Episode 296: One Night in Idaho: Friends Who Found Victims Speak Out & Bryan Kohberger’s True Motive

Released on July 8, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 296 of Serialously with Annie Elise, host Annie Elise delves deep into the harrowing case of the Idaho 4 murders, unveiling new insights and perspectives through the recently released docu-series, "One Night in Idaho." This episode not only recaps the key events surrounding the tragedy but also explores the motives and background of the accused, Bryan Kohberger.

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Recap of the Idaho 4 Case

Annie begins by providing a comprehensive overview of the Idaho 4 case, emphasizing the deep friendships between the victims—Kaylee Gonzalez, Maddie, Zanna, and Ethan. She highlights the emotional toll on their families, particularly Maddie's mother and stepfather, who describe their daughters as inseparable friends akin to sisters.

Notable Quote:

Annie Elise [00:34]: "The suspect in that case has been offered and accepted a plea deal."

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One Night in Idaho Docu-Series Insights

Annie discusses how Amazon Prime's docu-series, "One Night in Idaho," offers fresh perspectives and interviews with individuals previously unheard in the media, including friends, family members, and colleagues of both the victims and the accused. This series aims to fill the gaps left by initial reporting, providing a more intimate look into the lives of those affected.

Notable Quote:

Annie Elise [01:06]: "Today I'm going to recap it for you. But instead of just recapping docuseries as a whole, I also am going to be weaving in some of the information that we've already reviewed on this podcast in the past regarding the case."

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The Day of the Discovery

The episode details the events of November 13, 2022, when friends Hunter and Emily received a distressing call from Dylan, prompting them to rush to the King Road house. Upon arrival, they found Dylan and Bethany in a state of confusion, and Hunter immediately instructed them to call 911, shielding them from the full extent of the situation.

Notable Quotes:

Unknown Speaker [07:13]: "I didn't really think much of it. Dylan had called us... I was like, oh, sure. Should I bring my pepper spray?"

Hunter Johnson [16:22]: "I was walking over to the King Road house. I saw a group of people sitting on the ground. And it's all the people I've been hanging out with."

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Public Reaction and Speculation

As information about the quadruple murder spread, rumors and unfounded theories emerged, ranging from drug-related violence to targeted attacks. The lack of concrete information from authorities fueled public fear and suspicion, leading to harassment of the victims' friends and survivors.

Notable Quote:

Annie Elise [22:02]: "Homicide being investigated."

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Arrest of Bryan Kohberger

After a month and a half of intense speculation and investigation, Bryan Kohberger was arrested on December 29, 2022. Annie recounts the community's shock and confusion upon learning that an unfamiliar individual from Pullman, Washington, was the suspect. Kohberger, a PhD criminology student, studied under renowned forensic psychologist Dr. Katherine Ramsland, which added a chilling layer to the case.

Notable Quotes:

Unknown Speaker [42:25]: "Detectives arrested 28-year-old Brian Christopher Kohberger in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania."

Annie Elise [43:57]: "Someone named Brian. I was like, Brian? I've never even heard of a Brian."

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Investigation and Motive

The investigation revealed several red flags in Kohberger's behavior leading up to the murders. His online activity, including a suspicious Reddit survey mirroring investigative questions, and his erratic comments under the alias "Papa Rogers," suggested a deep-seated resentment and possible incel-related motives.

Notable Quotes:

Annie Elise [52:10]: "After the arrest, Kohberger posted a Reddit survey where he was interested in figuring out what motivates people to commit certain types of crimes."

Unknown Speaker [66:57]: "He was so into, like, the crime scene, and, like, the killer and why he did things."

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Aftermath and Plea Deal

On June 30, 2023, Kohberger accepted a plea deal, pleading guilty to burglary and all four murder charges in exchange for the removal of the death penalty from his sentencing options. This decision was met with outrage from some victims' families, who felt that justice was shortchanged without a full trial and detailed allocution.

Notable Quotes:

Annie Elise [86:18]: "He is official ... accepting a plea deal in exchange for the death penalty being removed."

Annie Elise [87:37]: "The guilty plea has already been accepted and there was no mention of allocution or certain criteria within that required."

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Reflections and Conclusions

Annie concludes the episode by reflecting on the profound impact of the murders on the community and the families involved. She underscores the importance of remembering the victims and understanding the complexities behind such tragic events. The docu-series "One Night in Idaho" serves as a crucial tool in humanizing the victims and shedding light on the intricate dynamics of the case.

Notable Quotes:

Annie Elise [85:38]: "I encourage you to watch if you are interested. If you have been following along with this case, make sure that you take a quick second whatever app you're listening to this podcast on, make sure you click the button in the corner to follow it."

Maddie's Mother [24:14]: "I never have a need to go look him in the eyes or I... cannot change the outcome on this thing."

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Key Takeaways

• Comprehensive Insights: The episode provides an in-depth look into the Idaho 4 case through new interviews and details presented in the "One Night in Idaho" docu-series.

• Suspicious Behavior: Bryan Kohberger exhibited several red flags, including his online activity and strained interactions with peers, which contributed to his identification as the suspect.

• Community Impact: The murders had a devastating effect on the community, leading to fear, speculation, and harassment of innocent individuals associated with the victims.

• Justice and Closure: The acceptance of a plea deal by Kohberger has left some families seeking full accountability and detailed explanations of the motive behind the murders.

• Humanizing the Victims: Through personal stories and emotional testimonies, the podcast emphasizes the importance of remembering the lives lost and understanding the broader implications of such crimes.

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Conclusion

Episode 296 of Serialously with Annie Elise offers a thorough exploration of one of the most shocking true-crime cases in recent history. By weaving together the new revelations from the docu-series with past discussions, Annie provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the Idaho 4 murders, the investigation, and the eventual arrest and plea deal of Bryan Kohberger. This episode not only informs but also honors the memories of the victims, urging the community to seek understanding and healing in the aftermath of tragedy.

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Thank you for tuning into another episode of Serialously. Stay informed, stay safe, and let's keep the memory of the Idaho 4 alive in our thoughts and prayers.

Transcript

[Annie Elise]

These kids were just having the best time of their lives.

[Unknown]

The biggest true crime case and trial in the nation.

[Annie Elise]

How could they not tell us what's going on? Nobody could have imagined what was about to happen.

[Unknown]

I just felt my heartbeat go crazy fast. I know that guy.

[Annie Elise]

Why these four kids?

[Unknown]

This can't be true.

I mean, Moscow police found very little information.

This is Idaho.

My mom said it's over and I.

Said, no, mom, it's just the beginning.

The suspect in that case has been offered and accepted a plea deal.

Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hello. Hello.

Hello.

Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial as Lee, with me your host and your true crime bff, Annie Elise. Now we have a very interesting episode today and it's going to dive into everything Idaho 4 related, but also a lot of new information and a lot of new interviews and details that we have never heard before. Now let me just give you a little bit of a rewind on this because about, gosh, when was it? About a month and a half ago, Amazon prime reached out to me telling me that they were working on a new Idaho docu series, not working on, I should say completed at that point. And they knew that I had been covering the case pretty extensively for the last several years. So they asked me if I wanted screeners of the episodes, which for those who are unfamiliar, screeners are basically, they're links to watch the episodes or movies early before it's released. It's very carefully watermarked. You can't, you have to like sign in a million different ways to view it on your browser. You have to have passwords, this, that, of these things. But anyway, my point is they shared this docu series with me about six weeks ago. I watched it and it has a lot of new takeaways and a lot of new fresh perspectives into this case. We're hearing from people that we have never heard from before. We heard from Hunter, the friend of Zanna, Ethan, Maddie and Kayle's, who is the one who walked into the house that morning right before the 911 call was placed. We're hearing from Ethan's triplet brother and Hunter and Maisie. We're hearing a lot from Maddie's mom and her stepfather. I mean, just a lot of interviews. In addition to people personally connected with the victims and also the survivors. We hear from people who knew Brian personally, former classmates of his, former partners on assignments with him. And again, we just are getting this whole new lens into this case. So the docu series is called One Night in Idaho, and today I'm going to recap it for you. But instead of just recapping docuseries as a whole, I also am going to be weaving in some of the information that we've already reviewed on this podcast in the past regarding the case, just to give you now this full, comprehensive overview of the case. Now, for whatever reason, I am unclear why Kaylee Gonzalez's family did not participate in this docu series, which did surprise me because her father, Steve, has been pretty outspoken about this case in general, going on several different news reports, anchors, sites, or reports, whatever you'd call it, broadcast. There's the word, Annie. But for whatever reason, they chose not to participate in this one. But like I said, it is for the very first time hearing now what happened that morning, what happened when they opened the door to King road before calling 91 1. We also are hearing from Dylan and Bethany's friends, Dylan and Bethany being the two survivors who were in that house that night. We're hearing from them not only what Dylan confided in them about the situation, but what they learned as all of this was unfolding right before their eyes. It really does give us a glimpse into this case like we have never seen or heard before. So we are going to jump right in. Now. We all knew that Kaylee and Maddie had this very deep friendship, that they had been friends for years. But really, hearing Maddie's mom speak about it in this, I think that she paints such a clear picture of just how deep that friendship went, because it was almost as though they were sisters. They had been best friends since the grade. So with that, their families were also very close with one another, and the girls were so close that they were inseparable. They even applied to the same colleges. They just did not want to be away from one another. So as you can imagine, when this horrific, horrific situation happened, the parents were double heartbroken, right? Because it was almost like they were losing a second daughter by extension, because they were just so incredibly close. And I think that that was really important to hear because again, when you hear firsthand from these families, from these friends, it just. It humanizes the victims in such a way that we don't often get to see almost behind the curtain, who they really were, what they enjoy doing, seeing family videos, home videos, pictures, all sorts of things. So, of course, Maddie's mother and her stepfather were very emotional throughout this docu series, but they shed a lot of light on who Maddie was and her friendship with Kaylee. Ethan's parents also spoke out. And what I thought was really interesting and very emotional as well is that they opened the docu series with Ethan's parents talking about how they went to Parents Weekend up in Idaho the weekend before these murders happened. And they specifically said how they were there just a week before the murders, seeing all of their kids. Because, remember, Ethan's a triplet. He had a brother, Hunter, and a sister, Maisie. So they go up there for Parents Weekend. And his mom says how when she and Ethan's father left that day, they looked at each other in the car and gave each other a literal high five. Just being like, we did it. We did it. We raised our kids. They're good, they're happy, they're going into adulthood. And like, we did it. Seven days later, Ethan was murdered. Now let's start with the day of the discovery. It was November 13, 2022, at approximately 11:45am A friend of the group named Hunter, whose girlfriend was Emily, who was also a very close friend of Zanna and Maddie's, was sleeping over at Emily apartment. The two of them were together in a relationship. They received a phone call from Dylan. And so with that phone call, they went over to the King Road house. Dylan had called them and said something to the effect of, you know, something weird happened. I don't know if I was dreaming or not, but I'm really, really scared. Can you please come over and can you check out the house? She said, I'm in the basement right now with Bethany. I tried calling Zanna a few times, but she hasn't responded. Can you guys please just come over here? I'm scared.

Got it.

A call.

I didn't really think much of it. Dylan had called us. She and Zanna, they were roommates. And she was like, something weird happened last night. I don't really know if I was dreaming or not, but I'm really scared. Can you come check out the house? She was like, I'm in the basement with Sethani. She said, I called for Zanna a few times and she hasn't responded, but will you just come over? I was like, oh, sure. Should I bring my pepper spray? Not thinking anything of it.

So Emily, Hunter and another friend of theirs head over to the house, and when they arrive, they see Dylan and Bethany coming out of the house. And they are flustered, they're confused. And you could feel that something just wasn't right.

So I started walking to Xena's house. And when we got there, Dylan and Bethany had exited the house. They frightened, just kind of like.

Just.

Hands on their mouth, like, I don't know what's going on type thing.

When the girls finally walk into the house, Hunter was already inside. He had been a few steps before them. They were a little bit behind. So he already was in the house walking around and kind of, I don't want to say investigating, but looking around. And when they walked in, they could feel that something was wrong. Immediately. Dylan and Bethany still weren't saying very much. They were just very confused. However, almost immediately upon entering, Hunter was like, rushing them out, ushering them out of the house, saying, get out, get out. You need to call 91 1. And when he told them that very specific instruction, you need to call 91 1, he didn't give a lot of detail. He told them, call 911 and let them know that there is an unconscious person. Now, the girls did not know the extent of what was going on because in that moment, Hunter had made the, in my opinion, very incredibly brave and courageous decision to shield them from the truth of what he saw, what he witnessed. He said, tell them it's somebody unconscious because he didn't want. He wanted to protect them. He didn't want them to spiral.

Hunter was ahead of me and Emily. I set foot in the house and immediately was pushed out. And Hunter was like, get out. Somebody call 911.

Hunter had enough courage to tell them to call the police for not a real reason. He worded it very nicely, said, tell him there's an unconscious person. Hunter saved all of us extreme trauma by not letting us know anything.

Now, I think now being armed with this information, it really does explain that chaotic 911 call. We all heard that 911 call when it was first released months ago, and it felt very chaotic. Everybody was passing the phone around. Nobody could say what really was happening. We heard somebody say that somebody was unconscious, but everybody was like, well, wouldn't you have seen blood? Wouldn't you know what was going on? Could they have been in shock what was going on? And I think this really does set the foundation for that. Hunter had shielded them intentionally, so they didn't know what was going on. All they knew was that somebody was unconscious inside. And they know, though, of course, that whatever's going on, it's really bad. And so I think that really does explain the chaos of that call.

91 on location of your emergency. Hi. Something is happening. Something happened to not help. We don't know what. What is the address of the emergency? What is the rest of the address? Oh, Kings Road. Okay. And is that a house or an apartment? It's a house. Can you repeat the address to make sure that I have it right? I'll talk to you guys. We're. We live at the White, so we're next to them. I need someone to repeat the address for verification. The address? 1122 King Road. And what's the phone number that you're calling from? What's your phone number? And tell me exactly what's going on. One of our. One of the roommates has passed out and she was drunk last night and she's not waking up. Okay. Oh, and they saw some man in their house last night. Yeah. And are you with the patient? Okay, I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around. Can I just tell you what happened? Pretty much what is going on currently? Is someone passed out right now? I don't really know, but pretty much at 4am Okay, I need to know what's going on right now. If someone has passed out. Can you find that out? Yeah, I'll come. Come on. You gotta go check. But we have to. She's not waking up. Okay, one moment. I'm getting help started that way. Okay. And how old is she?

Hello?

Hello? Okay, I need someone to stop passing the phone around because I've talked to four different people. Sorry, they just gave me the phone. Is she breathing? Hello? Is she breathing? No. Okay, I can't talk to them. They need you to talk to them. Hello? Okay, I have already sent the ambulance and law enforcement. Stay on the line. If there is a defibrillator available, send someone to get it now and tell me when you have it. Say that again. There's a point here. Right now. Okay. If there is a defibrillator available, send someone to get it now and tell me when you have it. Do you have a defibrillator? Yes. You have one? Are you talking to the officer? Yes. Okay, I'm gonna let you go since he's there with you and can help you. Okay, thank you. Bye. Okay. 11:59.

So while they're waiting for the authorities and paramedics to arrive, they also are all standing together outside trying to make sense of what's happening, what's going on, what's happening inside? Where are our friends? What? All they know in this moment is that something very bad happened.

Dylan made a comment of, I can't believe somebody would do this. And.

I whispered to Emily, where's Zanna?

And she said, she's inside and I think she's dead. I think all I wanted was to go wake Santa up. And I knew it wasn't gonna happen.

Now, meanwhile, as all of this is happening around 12 o', clock, so about roughly 15 minutes later, Ithan's brother Hunter is being woken up by a fellow frat brother saying, hey, police are over at King Road House. They're at the King House. You need to wake up. You need to wake up. But Hunter wasn't really spooked by this. The King Road house had a lot of parties. He knew that there were a lot of noise complaints all the time. So he's like, okay, like, who cares? Whatever. You know, what else is new? But then he gets up and he starts going over to the house. And Hunter shares about what that moment was like when he found out. And I just want to mention before I play this clip, he does kind of laugh while he's speaking and recounting this, but it's almost this laugh of discomfort and disbelief. Almost as though to this very day, he still doesn't think that it's real. He doesn't. Like, in those moments, he didn't think that it was real. He also calls his sister Maisie, the other triplet of the three of them, and he tells her that she needs to come over to Zanna's house, although he does not give her specifics as to why.

So I was walking over to the King Road house. I saw a group of people sitting on the ground. And it's all the people I've been hanging out with. And they all just had this look in their face when I walked up, like the world had ended.

I remember seeing Hunter walking up, and I remember us all turning and being like, oh, my God, like, somebody's gonna have to tell him what just happened.

I'm like, what the hell's going on? Like, where's Ethan? They're like, ethan's not here anymore. What do you mean, Ethan's not here anymore? I was like, where'd he go? They're like, your brother's dead. That was like, that can't be true. And then Hunter Johnson was like, I think Zanna, Ethan, were murdered last night. Didn't even know how to respond to it because it's, like, so unreal that someone I had spent almost every minute of my life with. I don't even know. Just, I. The first person I called was Maisie.

Literally, all Hunter said was, you just need to come to Santa's. And I asked him why, and he was like, just come.

Don't ask any questions. Have someone drop you off I remember.

Sitting in the car feeling like.

I.

Was, like, feeling like something was wrong. It was weird.

Now, after realizing the severity of this, what's really going on? And being hit with all of this information, Hunter calls their mother, and he keeps repeating to their mom over and over, they aren't here. Ethan's not here. Ethan's not here. To which his mom is just saying, okay, well, go get him. Like, go get him then. But he just could not say the words. All he could say is, he's not here. To. When finally. Then he said, he's not on this earth anymore.

Then it finally clicked. Oh, my gosh. Where's Kaylee and Maddie? Their phones are pinging in there. Their phones are inside that house. We didn't know if they were home. We didn't know if they were in there. We didn't know anything. We couldn't get a hold of them. I was sitting next to Dylan, and she really wanted to find out where they were. And we never went up there.

Then suddenly, while all of these friends and siblings are kind of gathering out front of this house, trying to make sense of what's happening, they get told that Ithan and Zanna have been found and that they are dead. But then in that moment, they realize very quickly that they had all been consumed with Zanna and Ithan, with what happened to them. They take a moment then, and stop and step back and say, well, what about Kaylee? What about Maddie? News, of course, spreads very fast. We're in the era of text messages, social media, all of these things. So these friends were also very close, and people lived very close by walking distance. So everybody's starting to learn about this information, but still not knowing the details. So Jake, Maddie's boyfriend, calls Maddie's mom and says, hey, do you know what's happening right now in Moscow? There's been a homicide. There's been a homicide at Maddie's house, and Zanna's dead. Like, have you heard about what's going on? Do you know anything? So Maddie's mom and stepdad, they're like, what? What are you talking about? They jump in the car, they start driving to Moscow trying to figure out and see what's going on. But they figured there must just be some sort of misunderstanding here. Surely there's not a homicide. Surely Zanna's not dead. So they figure, you know, once we arrive to Moscow, everything will be fine. We'll figure out what this miscommunication was and we'll take Maddie out to lunch while we're There, you know, we already made the drive. Let's take her out to lunch and everything will be okay. But then while they were on the drive to Moscow, Maddie's mom decides to call the police. And she says to them, look, I know you can't tell me anything. I know you can't confirm anything or give me any details, but can you confirm if there is an active homicide investigation at 1122 King Road? To which the officer she spoke with confirms, yes. But still, there was a little bit of a sense of. I don't know if you would say denial or hope perhaps, because the entire drive they were thinking, God, this is so horrible. There's been a homicide. It's true. Zanna is dead. So we'll pick up Maddie, we'll pick up Kaylee, since Kaylee stayed over there, and we'll console them. We'll be there for them. Not thinking that something had also happened to the girls, they thought more that the reason they weren't answering their phone calls was because they were attending to all of the chaos that was going on. So everything that was surrounding Zanna, the possible homicide, all of the drama at the house, that's why they thought they weren't answering their phones. They never thought that it was because they were victims in this as well. Meanwhile, at 1pm, about an hour after that 911 call was made, a vandal alert goes out. And a vandal alert is basically kind of like an Amber alert. It's like a push notification, but it goes out to all the students for the campus.

I saw the ambulances, cops.

So the cops still not speaking to us. And then.

All of our phones go off, and there's an alert that says, homicide on King Road. Everyone simultaneously just started bursting into tears.

We all get the first vandal alert, which is like Amber alert, but for just University of Idaho students investigating a.

Homicide on King Road. It didn't say how many. It didn't say who.

Homicide being investigated.

Now, this alert, it made everyone fearful and still very unsure of what was happening, who was killed, who wasn't killed, what's going on. And even before they could think what was happening next, they get the next alert.

We caught another vandal alert.

Four students found dead.

Quadruple murder.

And we look at the text, and we're all like, what the what? Because nobody had said anything to us.

That was before the cops even told us that Maddie and Kaylee had passed and that they were in there. I don't even know if I looked at my phone or if somebody showed Me. But people, they weren't like. Some of my girls started, like, yelling at the police guys.

I show my phone. I go, what the is this? And he just looked at me. He goes, he, like, grabs my phone. He's like, I didn't even know they were sitting this. I'm so sorry. And we were like, well, what does this mean? He was like, all four of them.

So after hearing this, after hearing the confirmation that this was a quadruple homicide, they also start hearing details from Hunter. Hunter, who had gone in earlier that morning. And he says that it did look like it was a malicious attack. He had shielded them this entire time from any of the details. But now that he was starting to kind of catch his breath and reality was setting in and the news was spreading, he was starting to share a little bit about what he saw about what had happened. Yet the one thing that nobody could understand, the one thing that nobody could seem to grapple with was who could have done this? Their worst fears had come true. Four of their friends just murdered. But how? By who? Why? As all of this is continuing to unfold, the police take the kids to the police station. Some kids drive there on their own. But the intention behind this was so that the police could start questioning them and clear them. It's not because any of the friends were under any sort of suspicion, but they wanted to just gather as much information as they could, and the students and friends were sharing all of that information. Maddie's mom also arrives around this time, and the police speak directly with her.

I feel like the struggle getting to this point was, I can't do this. I just can't. But it's just not mentally healthy to waste time other than laughing about Maddie, talking about Maddie. It's really all we do. There is very little place in my heart for holding on to anger. That's not what you heal from. A year ago, I couldn't have spoken to you at all. I couldn't have articulated any of this. And it's taken friends, family time to slowly creep out of that really, really bad place. And it's also reminding myself, like, how would Maddie and Kaylee want to see me? Would they want to see me crying, my pajamas and can't get out of bed? Or they want to see me talking about them and how happy and how amazing they are. And that's a struggle. You never know how strong you are until strong is all you can be.

This nightmare was now everyone's reality. The friends didn't want to go back to their houses. That are near King Road. The family was also in town, from out of town or from neighboring cities. So all of them stayed at a hotel for the night. The family, the friends near King Road, everybody. Hunter and Emily, the couple, the best friends of Zanna and Ethan. They went to bed incredibly scared, thinking that every single noise that they heard, just a twig breaking, a pin dropping, they thought that every noise they heard was them about to be attacked. They had been told too that this appeared to be targeted. So that left them confused. They had a very big group of friends. Why were those friends targeted? Had they been stalked for months? Is that person still out there, still stalking them? Are they watching them? Why these four friends? Who is responsible for this? I know that the majority of my listeners are other females and women out there like myself. 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And we've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best selling children's vitamins. Receive 50 off. Your first order to claim this deal you must go to hiahealth.comae this deal is not available on their regular website. So go to h I-Y-A h e a l t h.com ae and get your kids the full body nourishment that they need to grow into healthy adults. So reality has set in. At this point, four of their friends barbarically and brutally murdered. Everybody is in complete disbelief. How? Why? Who? And then collectively all of the friends start thinking about the day before the murders, before the discovery, trying to really piece it all together. Was somebody at the party? Did they make somebody mad? Was somebody watching them? They were almost looking to solve this or get answers to this among the friends and just figure it out, get to the bottom of it. So they go back in time a little bit. They go back to November 12, trying to figure out what happened, who were they around, who could have been responsible for this. So on that day they had had a party at the King Road house. It was game day. It was a very big day in the town. Everybody was going to be drinking all day, partying all day, celebrating and everybody was having fun. The roommates also were all partying, having fun together and they were taking photos together, which now are those infamous photos we know of from outside of the house where they're on each other's shoulders, they're smiling, they're laughing, they're just having an amazing day, an amazing time together. So then Ithan and Zanna left the party and they go to the game. The game day happens. The fall formal happens. Parties were happening. Everything was just happening next to each other simultaneously. Just a very buzzed up, busy day. Everyone ended up leaving around 9pm and then some of those people ended up going back to an after party at Sigma Chi. Ithan tried to get his sister Maisie to go out and come to the party at Sigma Chi with him. But she didn't want to. She was tired, she was in for the night, she was going to sleep. So Zanna and Ethan go to this party. They arrive around 9pm and then they leave the party around 1.40am and head back to King Road. Meanwhile, at 1am, Kaylee and Maddie were out at the local bar called the Corner Club. Just drinking, hanging out, having fun. So as the friends are all starting to piece this together, figuring out, you know, building the timeline, figuring out who was where, what they could have done, they kind of start thinking, you know, could someone have been at the party? Could somebody have been watching them at the Corner Club? Had they been being stalked all day and all night? Now, of course, as the friend group is trying to piece all of the information together and figure this out, so is the public. And because of the lack of information from the police at this point, as you can imagine, rumors and speculation, it all started to run rampant and rumors began spreading fast. Rumors like because King Road was a party house, it also was a drug house. There were drugs going in and out of that house. People were dealing, people were using that, you know, these murders, it was all part of a drug deal gone wrong. People then also started saying, you know what, Ethan's a drug dealer. And all four of them overdosed on Ethan's drugs. Just really, you know, fueling all sorts of rumors and things. But the problem with these theories and the problem with these rumors is that the friends who were closest to Kaylee, Maddie, Zanna and Ethan knew that nobody did any drugs. They knew that Ethan didn't deal drugs, nobody was a dealer, nobody was doing hard drugs in that house. They drank, they had fun, they were kids. So the friends knew, no, this is impossible. This theory doesn't check out. Move along to the next. Meanwhile, reporters were also hounding everyone. They were showing up in person, they were calling, they were dming just incessantly. Everybody was trying to get answers. And then finally some answers came because we had the first press conference. Now in this press conference they confirm that it was in fact a homicide. And they also confirmed that the cause of death was stabbing. Now this detail was new. It had been out there a little bit, but now it was being confirmed. And this made everybody realize these murders, they were much more personal because stabbing is extremely intimate. It is an up close and personal thing to do. It's not, not necessarily the weapon of choice for somebody who is killing randomly. Not unless it's somebody who is fixated on Knives and wants. The personal feeling of a stabbing murder. So now everybody was learning this very disturbing and unsettling information, but really that's all that the police were saying. So hearing this information now and mentally lining it up with the very bloody scene at the King Road house. So much blood where it was like seeping out of the, the house. Almost remember seeing it there on the drywall, it became very unsettling. It felt like there's this complete psychopath out there and still on the loose. A psychopath who had been stalking these students, or at least one of them, who barbarically murdered all of them with a horrific knife. And there was a complete bloodbath at the scene. And now they're still on the loose. That is terrifying. Now, at this same press conference, a lot of controversy started to build and it really started to, you know, first take flight, because for the first time we were told that the survivors were at the house when these murders occurred. But we also knew that the 911 call didn't come in until noon. So because of this, everybody was asking these questions of, well, why didn't these survivors and potential eyewitnesses call the police sooner? And it was a question that the police were not prepared or willing to answer. So after living in fear for days and still not understanding what exactly happened or why it happened, and the autopsy results were released, we're just getting some.

[Annie Elise]

Breaking news in the case of those four college students who were murdered in Idaho.

[Unknown]

The autopsy report was just released and.

Reveals that the killer likely used the.

[Annie Elise]

Same large knife to attack all four students.

[Unknown]

CBS spoke with the coroner who says the nature of the crime seems personal.

[Annie Elise]

There was a lot of blood.

[Unknown]

It's a very sad scene. Were the deceased all in close proximity to each other or were they in different rooms? I don't know that I can discuss that.

Friends continued brainstorming with one another, trying to think of who could possibly have done this. They start scouring the Internet too, trying to piece it together. And that's when the grub truck footage first took surface and took flight. Which, if you remember that footage and even if you don't let me explain it, it's basically the only food truck in Moscow. It's the, the, the only place really, or one of the only places where you can get late night food after the bar. It's a food truck. It has all sorts of different options. But what's interesting about this food truck is that they live stream the whole thing. They live stream people as they're coming up and ordering as they're making the food. So when people are going through this footage of the grub truck that night, they spot Kaylee and Maddie right there on the footage ordering food after the corner club before returning to King Road house. And on that footage, they also see somebody who appeared to be watching them, who wildly in the media was referred to as hoodie guy. And this footage goes viral. Everybody's wondering, who was this guy? He was there in the crowd kind of watching them. When then when the girls get their food and go out of the camera site, he follows a little bit after them in their same direction. So everybody starts thinking like, like, was this a guy who had been at the corner club all night? Did he follow them to the food truck? Was he watching them? Did he then follow them to 1122 King Road? Even friends became suspicious of him. It just did not look good. And as I'm sure you can imagine, the true crime community was covering this case extensively. And when I say some people arguably completely threw ethics away, I mean it. Because we now here too, that people in the community were so desperate for answers. It wasn't just reporters, it wasn't just Internet sleuths, but people were taking it next level. So much so as they were dressing up and posing as students, going into these dorm rooms trying to get statements or comments. Just absolutely unethical and overstepping boundaries 1,000%, full stop. And with this, with everybody just thirsty for answers and information, speculation and coverage went absolutely insane. People were turning on everyone. There were also points where the public turned on Hunter and Emily, Xana and Ethan's best friends. Hunter, the one who discovered them in the house that morning, they turned on them as though they did it. And Hunter and Emily speak out in this docu series saying they were receiving death threats that people thought they were the ones responsible for this. Of course, blame and public opinion was also turning on Dylan and Bethany, the two survivors, the two surviving roommates, because people were questioning, how could you have slept through all of this? How did you not know anything? Why didn't you call 911 for hours? Jack, Kaylee's ex boyfriend, also got roped into all of this. Was he a jealous ex? Was he trying to retaliate? Was this revenge? We had found out that she had rapid fire, called him that night many times, which it's my belief she's a young girl, she was drunk dialing him. Who the hell cares? But people were taking this information and running with it, trying to figure out who did this. Just desperate for Answers. Everyone felt scared. Everyone felt like they were being stalked. Either stalked for comment or stalked because the public was now calling them a murderer. And it got so bad that a second press conference had to be held, One in which the police just used this presser to publicly clear these people as suspects. That's how insane the harassment became. So in this press conference, they clear their roommates, they clear Jack, and they also clear the hoodie guy. They also said in this press conference that they had no known suspects. They also had no weapons that had been recovered. So still, it was like, great. You were clearing some people, but not others. You're still not giving any information as to who this is, if there's still a danger out there, if there's a threat to the community. So, of course, rumors are just going to continue to build and build and build. And over a month and a half went by with no updates, no news, no suspects. But then everything changed. Because just after 11pm on December 29, all of the families, each received a very important phone call. A phone call that was about to change their lives. So it's now been about a month and a half since the quadruple murder took place. No suspects had been named, no public information released. It was really just left up to everyone coming up with their own conclusions, forming their own opinions, and some really batshit crazy rumors and speculation out there. But then just after 11pm on 29 December, the police made a phone call. They called the families of all of the victims and they shared some very important information.

It was after 11 o'.

Clock.

I was already in bed. And the officer said, don't tell anyone, but we have the suspect in custody.

The following day, on December 30, another press conference was held. And this time it was to announce the arrest of Bryan Kohberger, a major.

Development in a closely watched murder case. Just moments from now, police in Moscow.

Idaho will hold a news conference.

This room is absolutely packed here at Moscow City Hall. Dozens of reporters here inside, bunches of TV cameras.

[Annie Elise]

So we're all sitting there, mostly a bunch of local newspaper reporters, people within like an hour or two of Moscow. And there was a press conference last night.

[Unknown]

Detectives arrested 28 year old Brian Christopher Kohberger in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. Kohberger resides in Pullman, Washington and is a graduate student at Washington State University.

Due to Idaho state law, we are.

Limited in what information we can release today until Kohlberger has been has his initial appearance in Idaho court.

Now, this new information, it made everyone spin. Everyone was Trying to make a connection, trying to see if anybody knew who he was. Did he know any of the victims? Did he know any of the friends? Who was this guy? Who was this guy who came in in the dead of night and stabbed four young college students?

I went to my friend's house, and we all were like, do you know who he is? Do we know who he is? And none of us knew. My first reaction was, who the hell is this guy?

He is just this random person that.

Has nothing to do with any of our lives.

You all now know the name of the person who's been charged with these offenses. Please ask the public, anyone who knows about this individual, to come forth. I was told that they had made an arrest.

Someone named Brian.

I was like, brian?

It's like, I've never even heard of a Brian.

Like, why would this random guy from Pullman that no one's met before do this?

Nobody could understand who this guy was. There was a lot of relief that it wasn't somebody they knew. It wasn't a friend among themselves. It also wasn't another one of their own from Idaho. But even though that was a little comforting, there was still the massive discomfort of, who the hell was this guy? Who is this creep? So as his mugshot is shared pretty much everywhere, it took no time at all for all the sleuths to start digging, to start putting information together, figure out who Brian is, figure out all the details they could about him. And sure enough, pretty quickly, it was discovered that he actually was a PhD criminology student. And this was very upsetting because it looked as though, okay, this guy was not only a fellow student at a different campus at WSU, but only 15 minutes away from Moscow, but he studied criminology. He was going for his PhD. He was smart. He was interested in this stuff. And that was a little unnerving. Just a few days later, on January 5th, Brian had his first hearing. And here is how that day was described.

[Annie Elise]

The first time they brought Bryan Kohberger into the courtroom. When they opened the doors, a chill swept through the courtroom. It was just. Just a really eerie, surreal feeling to see him for the first time.

[Unknown]

Maddie's parents also described what it was like seeing Brian for the first time, just seeing him.

And he was probably, I don't know, maybe eight feet away from me. I almost really wanted to take him out myself right there. It was, okay, gotta calm down. My wife actually was holding onto my arm because she was afraid I was gonna go do something.

I remember just holding his arm as Tightly as I could. And he was shaking. I think we were all shaking.

Count two alleges that you committed the felony offense of murder in the first degree. The maximum penalty for this offense is death or imprisonment for life. Do you understand? Yes.

I thought I would feel like, you know, yes, we're here. We're watching you. Like, how dare you? And it wasn't that way at all. He didn't look at us, but I'm sure he was instructed to do so. And I thought, if he doesn't feel bad, why am I wasting so much time even pretending like he's a human being? I'm hurting myself. He's not going to make me a victim now.

Although Maddie's family went to that hearing and some friends have gone and other family members, Ethan's family has shared that they have no interest in attending any of the hearings. Not even the trial, when the trial begins. And here is what his mom had to say about. About it.

Sending in a courtroom. This doesn't feel right. Why would I go sit in a courtroom with that person?

Have you attended any of the hearings?

None.

No, I will not. We won't. We won't attend any of the hearings. What's the purpose?

Definitely not the trial.

No.

Nope.

I don't have a need to go look him in the eyes or I don't. It is what it is. We cannot change the outcome on this thing. We cannot bring anything back.

Now, due to this case being such a high profile death penalty case and so much speculation just taking over and it being so chaotic, a gag order was issued and the gag order was actually issued through the duration of the verdict. Meaning until a verdict is reached and read and put into court, law, no investigators, no law enforcement offers, nobody related to the case can discuss the case case because they fear that it would jeopardize the trial and because of the gag order. Then the attention started shifting because now there were these sleuths who were looking into the case, who were dissecting every detail. But with a gag order that was giving them a roadblock, they couldn't keep doing that. So the natural shift was to start looking into Brian, to start sleuthing his background, trying to figure out more about him. Since no more details were coming out.

[Annie Elise]

About the case, everyone just became obsessed with figuring out everything about this guy. Who is Bryan Kohberger?

[Unknown]

What brought him to that house? Did he just spontaneously combust into a killer overnight?

So as this case is taking flight and going viral, a guy named Josh sees him, sees it come across his Screen on the news and he recognizes him. He went to Desales university with him. He was even a partner with him on a school project. He knew Brian personally. And here is Josh and another classmate of Brian's describing their history with him and their interactions with him.

Brian Kohberger and I met in the biology room. We were all being paired up for this long project that we were about to do. We're like picking partners. And I see this guy standing alone with his leather jacket on and he's like just kind of being quiet. I'm the type of guy that says, hey, buddy, do you want to be my partner? This guy is incredibly smart, incredibly detail oriented, and he is honestly a pleasure to work with. Do you need help with A, do you need help with B, Bouncing ideas off each other, fact checking each other?

I took a few classes with Brian Kohberger. He was also a forensic psychology major. We saw him maybe as the smarter student. I remember there was a class where I actually tried to cheat off his test. I don't tell a lot of people that, but I tried to cheat off his test because I knew he always did amazing in our psychology classes.

He seemed to be a lonely guy. I definitely invited him to a party one time and he said no. I can remember that he commuted to.

DeSales, so it was kind of hard to learn who Brian was.

He is an oddball, he is smart, but he's like a robot. Purely based off the fact that of his social inability to perform in a normal human manner. I can absolutely see someone like him being involved in something like this.

Then they mention Dr. Ramsland and how Brian studied directly underneath her.

Dr. Katherine Ramsland is a very accredited woman in the forensic psychology world. She has been on multiple TV shows. She's published multiple books.

I spent five years talking with Dennis Rader, the BTK serial killer, because he.

Defies many of the formulas.

Brian Kohberger studied forensic psychology under Dr. Ramslin. In that class, you learned about serial killers, murderers and their motives.

Right behind our campus is a group of houses where normal people live. But one house, Desales vault, and they use a crime scene house. Dr. Ramsland would leave evidence and clues of a real murder that happened in history.

We would try to figure out exactly how this crime took place. Just thinking about how and why a person would do something like that.

I did one assignment with Brian in the crime scene house. We're all sitting there quiet, and he would come up with something like, well, maybe the intruder did this. Brian's analysis usually helped us get to the end goal of what Dr. Ramsland wanted us to get to.

So a big point of conversation through all of this was how Brian was very, very inquisitive and how sometimes serial killers can mask their personal curiosity through education. Almost as though he wasn't interested in this at an educational level and then became a serial killer because of it. But more so he always wanted to kill. And so he strategically took courses to learn the ins and outs. Again, that's just a theory and that was just conversation. But with that, it then catapults us into the now infamous survey that we saw go viral.

[Annie Elise]

After the arrest, Kohberger posted a Reddit survey where he was interested in figuring out what motivates people to commit certain types of crimes. You don't look like a psychopath. You look like you're doing your homework.

[Unknown]

Brian was asking questions about how certain inmates felt about the crime that they did, which to me was very bizarre to ask. It was definitely out of the realm of the type of questions that we would ask.

The Master of arts in criminal justice.

Is awarded to Ryan Kohberger. You could be a teacher who is supposed to be the protector of children doing nefarious things with a student. How oftentimes do we see that they coached the football team and they're involved in little league and they're part of the community, all the while being that chameleon is blending in with society.

Foreign.

And it's the season of doing things that are like nice and enjoyable and that make you feel like you can just go outside, enjoy all your activities, not be like tied into the kitchen, tied to like cooking or grocery shopping. And in enters hellofresh to the chat. Because hellofresh makes it so easy to fit quick home cooked meals into your schedule every week. And without even a second thought, they curate these delicious recipes that go right to your door. They have sun dried tomato, grilled cheese, they have like panko crusted chimichurri, barra mundi, which is like something, it's a mouthful to me to say, but it's a mouthful to eat and it is so bomb. And for summer, hellofresh has even made it easier to enjoy these delicious, healthy and homemade quality meals because they have new ready made meals. 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Make your summer enjoyable and delicious by signing up for [e-mail] and get 10 free meals with a free item for life. That's hellofresh.com AE10FM for 10 free meals and a free item in every box. Hellofresh.com AE10FM one per box with an active subscription. Free meals are applied as a discount on the first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. I recently talked to you guys about my skims haul and I just want to talk to you about it again because it has been just a full game changer in my closet and my dresser. My sister Amy has been wearing skims for years. Pajamas, their undergarments, you name it. And I always ask her like, is it really worth the hype? I don't know. I just, I've always worn. I'm not going to say who the brand is, but it's probably the one you're thinking. It's like the most mainstream underwear company on the market and bra company. I was wearing them for years even though I was unhappy. The quality is trash. It like rips in the wash. 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I need to know what are the other hidden gems that I'm missing? What are they? So go to skims.com annie and grab your stuff today and tell me what I need to add to my list as well. So as everybody's piecing together his background, we also learn about how when Bryan Coburger wanted to be a research assistant for the police department in Washington, this was in the spring of 2022, so just a few months before the quadruple murders.

Previous to my employment at Washington State University, I was the chief of police for the city of Pullman. We had a program where AWSU criminal justice PhD student and would do research and assistance for us. So I interviewed Brian Coburger. I know that he had an interest in the mind of a person who commits crimes, their motivation and how they feel. They seem maybe a little bit awkward talking with him. His communication style was not like a fluid conversation necessarily where he spoke easily. It was a little bit more stuttered, I guess with a researcher and a law enforcement agency, a huge factor is developing trust. And that was one area where I felt he might fall short. He did not get the job.

So everybody's finding out all of this unsettling information about Brian in real time, right? They're finding out about his education, they're finding out that he's kind of a loner, but nobody really still knows who Brian is, who Is he?

[Annie Elise]

What we know about Bryan Kohberger is that he was raised in the rural mountains of the Poconos in Pennsylvania. He seems to have been picked on or bullied as a kid a lot. When he got older, he was kind of a loner kid. While Kohberger was at Washington State University, he was a teacher's assistant. And from what we've heard from students who were in classes with Kohberger, he had somewhat of an off putting personality. But it's not like this guy had a rap. It'd be different if, like in his past he had some other, like, violent assault or something on his record. What makes this so striking is this wasn't some career criminal. This might have been someone's first act.

[Unknown]

The same day of that hearing, the probable cause affidavit was released. And this gave a whole new level of insights into how Brian was connected and how they ended up coming to arrest.

Brian, we have breaking news for you. And that is that the probable cause affidavit in the Idaho 4 murder case has officially been released.

A lot of information as to what led to Bryan Kohlberger's arrest.

These details are so heartbreaking. Let's talk about the key takeaways, because omg.

Probable cause affidavit is supposed to provide a judge with just enough evidence for the suspect to be held on the crime.

DNA, phone records, and that white Hyundai Elantra, those are the pieces of evidence.

Police believe connect Brian Kohberger to the Idaho murders.

[Annie Elise]

We get to see the homework that all the investigators put together to say Brian Kohberger is our guy. The night the killings took place, Coburger's cell phone data reveals he leaves his apartment in Pullman heading toward Moscow. His cell phone stops reporting to the network at 2:47am Investigators say that's consistent with someone, like putting their phone in airplane mode or turning it off.

[Unknown]

Just before 3:30am A white Elantra is seen on surveillance footage making passes at the King Road house. Investigators believe the home sides occurred between 4 and 4:25am and then sometime after.

[Annie Elise]

4:20Am a white Hyundai Elantra is seen leaving the King Road residence at high speed. On security footage, when Coburger's phone starts reporting to the network again, it happens at 4:48am as he's headed south from Moscow towards Genesee Court.

[Unknown]

And cell phone data, Coburger drove back to Pullman in an odd way. Typically people will drive down the main highway that connects the two towns or they'll drive on the airport road. But he drove through a residential subdivision out of the way.

[Annie Elise]

He winds his way back to Pullman through some of the smaller farm towns. Coburger returns to his residence on the Pullman campus in the early morning hours. One of the most shocking parts of the affidavit was that investigators found a sheath for a knife next to Maddie on the bed. The cell phone records show Coburger likely returned to the area of 1122 King Road that morning. He seems to circle back to the crime scene sometime around 9am it kind.

[Unknown]

Of makes my skin crawl knowing that he was on the same street. He was by my car.

He was by my front door that morning.

When he went back there in the morning, that was an oh moment. I left the sheath, and that has my DNA on it. That's what I truly believe. Where is that sheath? Oh, my God, where is it? Probably freaking out because he probably wore booties on his feet. He probably gloved up. He probably had long sleeves. He probably had a hair net and a hood up. And knowing what he did know probably accounted for every little thing that he could. You can say you're gonna do this, this, and this on any given day, but almost 100% of the time, the plan has to deviate because you can't control the outcome.

As this is released, we also start hearing more about Brian's movements in the days following the murders. And with this information, it starts illustrating a lot of red flags.

[Annie Elise]

Five days after the killings occurred, Brian Kohberger changed his car registration from Pennsylvania to Washington. This is extremely suspicious because maybe someone is worried that their car was captured on video or surveillance of some kind. And so registering a different state is a way to change not only the look of your vehicle, but where it's registered, the information about it. Maybe it's a way to cover something up.

[Unknown]

Once that car from that footage was identified, the police put out a bolo, but they only put it out to law enforcement. It wasn't a public one, which a BOLO is a be out on, be on the lookout for. So they put this car out to a law enforcement bolo. And there was an officer who was just driving around the student housing complex and he spotted that same car with Pennsylvania plates. They ran the plates, and sure enough, it was registered to Brian Coburger. And when they ran that, it was discovered that he had actually been previously stopped for a traffic violation. Now, even though this officer discovered this, this car with the plates, because the car model was a different year, they didn't submit the lead to Moscow and this discovery was on the 29th of November. So a month before the arrest. And in hindsight, when this information came to light, a lot of people thought that they dropped the ball, but. And that they could have easily connected it then. But, you know, because it was a different year, they didn't submit the lead to Moscow. So as the details in the case are slowly leaking or slowly being released, the public and the true crime community was like, in overdrive, just searching for anything and everything that could explain why someone would kill these four students. And that is when the Papa Rogers account was discovered on social media, although it was initially created a month before the arrest happened. And we covered this Papa Roger account in real time when we had first discovered it years ago. So I'll link that deep dive in the show notes. But basically, people saw this account and they thought that it was Brian Coburger. They thought it was like a sock account or an alias account of his. And the reason why is because this Papa Rogers account, that was the name of the user. He was in these groups that were dedicated on Facebook to the Idaho four case. Commenting, theorizing, just sharing details, too, that nobody knew at the time, details that had not been publicly released.

Papa Roger joined our Facebook group, the University of Idaho Murders case discussion, a couple of weeks after we started the page. And he immediately started to get attention because of the questions he was asking and just how creepy overall he was. Melina and I are, like, the administrators of the page, and if something gets posted that's inappropriate, it, like, pops up to our attention.

We get this, like, file of people that report comments, and his were in there all the time, which is how he became, like, even more prominent in my head.

I mean, he just asked really weird questions, like, how did the killer hold the knife prior to entering the scene, in your opinion?

He said, which hand do you think they used to kill with? And I was just like, who is he? Like, something's not right. Something's off with this guy.

Alita and I have a passion for true crime. We have multiple pages that focus on crimes that people are looking to solve. But the biggest and most well known is the University of Idaho murders. There was talk back then like, oh, I bet the killer is on this page. There's 220,000 of us.

We have almost a quarter million members. Somebody's gonna say something that's gonna be significant.

People ask questions on this page and they like, oh, I think so.

And so did it.

But he was so into, like, the crime scene, and, like, the killer and why he did things. In hindsight, I see something very much along the same lines as the questionnaire that Bryan Kohberger created for a school project. He wanted like the thoughts and feelings into why somebody committed crime. Papa Roger asked on our page, how did the killer leave the scene? Kohberger asked, how did you leave the scene? In his questionnaire, Papa Roger said, did you clean up at all? Brian Kober asked before leaving, is there anything else you did? The questions on his questionnaire are very similar to the questions that Papa Roger asked on our page.

During this same window of time as Papa Rogers is making these comments and these posts in this Facebook group, Brian went on that cross country drive with his father back to Pennsylvania. During that drive, we also know and saw through body cam footage that he was pulled over twice. So I would imagine that news of the Elantra being out and him being pulled over and knowing that law enforcement is looking for his car, it's enough for me to believe and it was enough for people to suspect that he probably was starting to spiral in these moments, especially as he was being pulled over, thinking like the walls are starting to close in. He knows law enforcement's looking for his car. Or a version of he sees all these people theorizing and seeing that this case has just completely gone nuclear and everybody's talking about it. I could imagine that he starts feeling quite a bit of stress, which at the same time, while all of this is happening, the Papa Roger posts and comments start becoming more erratic, more unhinged, starting to deflect from the car, saying, no, no, no, this car that they've put out, it's just a red herring. We don't need to look into this. This isn't anything real or big. He also then comments mentioning the idea of the sheath being left behind, which by the way, this was a detail that at the time of that post had not been released. That detail of the sheath being left behind was not released until a month later, prompting the question how would this user know to ask about it? And I'm going to get back to that in a bit, but take a listen.

One post in particular that really catches my attention is his very first post on November 30th of the evidence released. The murder weapon has been consistent as a large fixed blade knife. This leads me to believe they found the sheath. That is so odd because we didn't hear anything about the she. This has never been discussed publicly. This is November 30th. This is a full month before they even arrest him.

Now My personal opinion, and you may disagree, which is totally fine, but my personal opinion is that if Papa Rogers is Brian Coburger, which we will also talk about more here in a minute. I think that he posted about the sheath because he wanted to see if anybody would confirm that it was was found. Because at that point it was a detail that wasn't made public yet. Right. It was just a fear of his that he left it behind. So I think he was trying to almost like not breadcrumb, but maybe a little bit be like, I think that maybe there was a sheath that was left behind. That's how they know about this, this and this. Hoping that maybe somebody would be like, yeah, I'm connected to law enforcement or I have a friend in law enforcement. And they did find a sheath. Trying to almost get that information out. I think that he slipped up a little bit. Bit. I think he got a little bit careless. So we also find out that prior to his arrest they did in fact find that sheath. We also learned that the police had connected touch DNA located on the sheath's button and connected it to Brian through genealogy testing. So after all of that in Pennsylvania, after he arrives there on his cross country road trip with his dad, the FBI begins surveilling him. They also arrest him and they search his property.

Back in Pennsylvania, the FBI began surveilling the co worker residents. They take some of the family's garbage and made a DNA profile of Brian Coburger's father and then got at least a partial match to the DNA profile on the knife sheath.

[Annie Elise]

So using all of this information, investigators say we believe the person who committed this crime is Bryan Kohberger. We want a warrant for his arrest.

[Unknown]

The investigators let us know of their plan that they were going to do an arrest at his family home in Pennsylvania. We were going to time the search warrants at his office and his graduate student housing department to happen almost simultaneously. Police department search warrant come to the door.

A break in the case that has gripped this nation.

Authorities have arrested a suspect in Pennsylvania.

Coburger reportedly had a blank stare as.

He was arrested and also asked if.

Anyone else had been taken into custody. Mr. Coburger was found in the kitchen.

Area wearing latex gloves and apparently was.

Taking his personal trash and putting it.

Into separate Ziploc baggies.

[Annie Elise]

The police took computers, they have hard drives, they took black clothing, they took gloves, masks.

[Unknown]

There were no clothes at the apartment. It just was almost vacant. Looked like he had planned not to come back.

Now, you know what's so interesting is right after the arrest, poof. Like magic, the Papa Rogers account disappears, just erased from the Internet. So I don't. He obviously couldn't have done that. He was in custody. But if it was connected to Brian, could the FBI have scraped it once they searched and seized all of his devices? Will they find that the IP is linked to that account? Will they see postings that were on the account? So now with all of the pieces that are beginning to come together, how they were killed, who was responsible when it happened, the biggest question on everyone's mind, aside from, you know, why did he do it? Was what really happened inside that house that night? I don't know if you're anything like me, but I feel like these days fees just seem to be everywhere. You know, concert tickets, there's a fee. A doordash order, there's a fee. A movie theater, there's a processing fee. All these like just mysterious fees, they're everywhere and they hurt the most when you're feeling down and already tight on money. And that's why Chime offers fee free banking. That means no monthly fees, no overdraft fees and no minimum balance fees. And you can sign up [e-mail] serial. Now bank fees can also be a huge pain in the butt, right? Overdraft this, overdraft that, all sorts of things. Use it in a different atm, whatever it may be. So this is a huge benefit that you get from banking fee free with Chime because there are no monthly fees, there are no overdraft fees. There also is no minimum balance required requirement. You can open your account in just two [e-mail] seriously, that's chime.com seriously. Chime feels like progress. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bankor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members. FDIC spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file fees. Apply it out of network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs according to US News and World Report, 2023 Chime checking account required. At this point, we still didn't know what took place inside 1122 King Road. And that was the question weighing so heavily on everyone.

That night I had left an apartment complex near the King road House at 4am and I remembered thinking to myself that it was eerily quiet. Usually you can see the last remnants of people leaving a party in. But it was silent.

The probable cause affidavit not only told us more about Brian but it also told us more about what happened in those early morning hours. And more specifically, it told us what Dylan saw and what Dylan did.

A few weeks after that night, Dylan had expressed to me what happened. She heard Kaylee and Maddie come home and she heard them chit chatting on the couch for a while. The couch was on the wall of her bedroom and she was pretty much sleeping through it.

[Annie Elise]

The surviving roommates, Bethany Funk and Dylan Mortensen confirmed that all members of the King Road residence were asleep by 4am that's with the exception of Zanna Kernodle. At 4am DoorDash drops off an order for Zanna.

[Unknown]

At 4:05am, a white Elantra is seen driving in front of the King Road house, making a turn and then parking.

[Annie Elise]

And cell phone data shows that Zanna was on TikTok around 4:12am that is.

[Unknown]

When Dylan hears some commotion kind of upstairs. She thought she heard someone say, there's someone here. She looked out of her bedroom door on the second floor and didn't see anything.

Dylan said that she remembered hearing crying.

And she thought she heard a male voice say, it's okay, I'm going to help you.

[Annie Elise]

Video from next door at 4:17am captures the sound of a whimper and a loud thud. A dog barking can also be heard on the footage.

[Unknown]

Dylan opens her door for a third time and she describes seeing a man with bushy eyebrows.

[Annie Elise]

This person walked past her bedroom and out the sliding glass door of the back room.

[Unknown]

She said that she just scaredly closed the door like boom.

Dylan was incredibly frightened and she started calling all of the roommates but nobody was picking up. So then she ran down to Bethany's room in the basement so that she could be with her so that she wasn't alone.

Eventually she just decided to go for it and she made a run for it to Bethany's room down in the basement. Dylan was like, did you hear any of that? Heather was like, no. And so I think that Dylan was probably just like, I must have imagined it. And if you didn't hear anything, then let's go to bed together safely now.

With all of this information now out there too. As you can imagine, the Internet just started attacking these surviving roommates, laying into them for potentially hearing the murder, seeing the murderer and not calling 911 until hours later.

I'm sure Dylan and Bethany see these hurtful comments and they can't really say anything back to it. But you know, they are not speaking out for obvious reasons, legal reasons, and that's what the public I Don't think necessarily understands. I think it's very important for everybody to know that what if doesn't matter, because if she had known what was going on, it would have been too late anyways.

So as we know, Dylan then woke up and she made that phone call to her friend saying, something weird is going on. It's not a dream. I think it's real. It's at the house. Can you come over? And that's when Hunter and the girls went over to 1122 K. Police entered.

The house and went up to the second floor. They went into Zanna's bedroom and found her and Ethan dead with stab wounds. Police then went up to the third floor and into Maddie's bedroom, where they found both Maddie and Kaylee in Maddie's bed, dead with multiple stab wounds.

Now, this fueled even more speculation as to who this guy was. Was he stalking them? Police stated that it was targeted. So who was the killer targeting then? Given the only publicly available information out about Brian, the public decided to create their own profile of him. Kind of like how an FBI profiler would create one on their perp on who they think committed a horrific crime. And that is right about the time when the term incel was mentioned. Now, I did a full deep dive on this very, very early on, before it became, like, public theory and fodder. It was back in. Gosh. It was back in January, I think, of that year. It was right around the time of the murders, which I'll link it for you. But it's where we spoke about Elliot Rogers. And Elliot Rogers is a famous incel, which the term incel means involuntarily celibate. And it's a very dangerous group of people, in my opinion, or it can be. Now, as I said, Elliot Rogers is. Is a very infamous incel. He has fan clubs, fan groups, people who look up to him like he's a hero. But what's interesting is he also coincidentally has the same last name as that Internet user, Papa Rogers. So was that some sort of inspo alias that somebody created looking to Elliot as some, like, hero?

[Annie Elise]

The definition there is involuntarily celibate. So this is a sort of person that cannot connect with the other gender sexually and maybe feel some resentment toward that gender.

[Unknown]

Haley Willette says they met in 2015 when he took her to a movie, then insisted on escorting her to her dorm room. He kept trying to tickle me, and I would ask him to stop, and he would get very serious. I proceeded to pretend to throw up.

In the bathroom, hoping that he would leave.

And then he messaged me and he said that I had good birthing head.

I still think the more we find out that this was incel rage, rage against women because of his history with women starting in high school, where the girls would be bullying him.

[Annie Elise]

Certain men feel like they are owed a relationship with a woman, that that's not something they should have to earn, it's something that they should be given.

[Unknown]

I did hear about a situation where Coburger had followed a student out to her car, like trying to flirt with her, and she reported it to someone.

[Annie Elise]

In the criminal justice department at Washington State University. He starts getting into altercations with students and we find out later that he was fired from his TA ship.

[Unknown]

He got more feisty and belligerent, even.

[Annie Elise]

Arguing with his professors. Until December 19th, Bryan Kohberger is officially.

[Unknown]

Terminated by Washington State University.

[Annie Elise]

And I'm pushing him for documents. I want to know about the stuff about Coburger with the girls. If that's true, I want to see his record. But again, it's just tricky because there's rumors about his behavior at the school, but none of it's verified until we have the documentation.

[Unknown]

So I mentioned Elliot Roger and how we made that deep dive episode into him very early on, before it was even a public theory out there. And I personally thought that Brian most likely was or is an incel. That's just my personal opinion. I'm not in a position to diagnose him. That is just what I think. But what I think is very interesting is as we were making these connections between Elliot, between Brian and When I did that deep dive, as I was watching this docu series, it was the first time that I found out and heard that Brian did in fact study Elliot Roger, this is brand new information that had never been released before. We had heard that he had studied serial killers, but we had never heard that he studied Elliot. Now here's Brian's former classmates sharing those.

Details at DeSales University. Some of the people that Brian and I studied that were serial killers were Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ed Kempfer and Elliot Roger. So Elliot Rodger, he was a young man in college that was basically jaded and hated his life because he lacked the attention from friends, family, and most of all, women. So Elliot Rodger, one day, first he invited some people over that he claimed to be friends with. He stabbed them to death. He then went out with firearms to a sorority and killed a number of women in a sorority. He then drove around Shot multiple other people in public and he ended his own life in his vehicle. But after the fact, there was a written manifesto and he basically tells you, this is what I did, this is why I did it.

[Annie Elise]

Roger's sexist rants are part of a culture that breeds violence against women.

[Unknown]

Roger wrote, all of those beautiful girls I've desired so much in my life but can never have because they despise.

And loathe me, I will destroy. So this of course genuinely makes me think that that Papa Roger account was an inspiration to him. Almost like an ode to Elliot.

If you listen to some of the manifestos of Elliot Roger, he talks about hating all the girls from Alpha Fee, the same sorority that Kaylee was in.

Brian was interested in a lot of things that we learned, but he did have more of an interest in Elliot Rodger. I talked to other girls in the class where we were all bothered by what Elliot Rodger did, but Brian did not seem bothered.

But incel in my professional opinion, this is a particularly dangerous version of misogyny because incel communities have this presence in an online space.

They can say things and provide support for things that perhaps they wouldn't do.

In a face to face context because they would be concerned about what the.

Social consequences or the repercussions would look like.

Now as all of this was public and people were talking about it and making connections in online incel forms, Brian was being praised, being admired, even saying he did what Elliot couldn't do. I mean Brian had a full on fan club, still does to this day. People even started creating fake accounts of his just trying to be him. Some people taking it so far and so sick and twisted that they would create social media accounts posing as Brian and they would DM the friends of the victim. Victims taunting them, saying sorry I killed your friends, sorry I killed those bitches. Just truly sick and unhinged. So then the docu series starts sharing what the aftermath has been like, what it has been like having this huge high profile case out there, people harassing you, hounding you, and not even being able to just breathe without a new theory popping up or a new question or a new accusation.

And you.

Ithan's family also shares what they did with Ithan's remains, which I personally find this just incredibly touching and beautiful. They talk about how they were looking for a place to put him, but that nothing made sense because where do you put your child? That's the exact question his mom said, where do you put your kid? So they share that they put him in the basement until one of them dies. Then he will be with them. They say that way he is safe, he's with family. They can go downstairs to the basement and talk to him whenever they want, which they do. And I find that very comforting, personally. Now, when sharing about how to move forward, Maddie's mom also shared, and here's what she had to say.

I feel like the struggle getting to this point was, I can't do this. I just can't. But it's just not mentally healthy to waste time other than laughing about Maddie, talking about Maddie. It's really all we do. There is very little place in my heart for holding on to anger. That's not what you heal from. A year ago, I couldn't have spoken to you at all. I couldn't have articulated any of this. And it's taken friends, family, time to slowly creep out of that really, really bad place. And it's also reminding myself, like, how would Maddie and Kaylee want to see me? Would they want to see me crying, my pajamas and can't get out of a bed? Or they want to see me talking about them and how happy and how amazing they are. And that's a struggle. You never know how strong you are until strong is all you can be.

Now, after I had wrapped this recording, a complete curveball was thrown on June 30, because on June 30, it was announced that Bryan Coburger was accepting a plea deal in exchange for the death penalty being removed. He was going to plead guilty to the burglary charge and all four murder charges. And sure enough, on Wednesday, he had his plea hearing where he changed his plea in court and it was accepted by the judge. And there has been a lot of conversation about whether this was fair, whether this was right. And a lot of the families believe it's unfair. They didn't agree with this. They wanted to go through with the trial. They. They wanted Brian to have to face everyone in court and answer to these crimes. Every detail coming out. So even though this plea deal was structured and accepted, people were mad. People were outraged. And a lot of people said, well, if they are going to at least do this plea deal and cancel the trial, there needs to be an allocution, meaning he needs to say every single detail. The motive, what happened, where the murder weapon is, all of those things. However, in the plea hearing on July 2, the judge accepted his plea, and he did not state that that was going to be a requirement. So as of now, it seems that the only information that we are going to receive since it's not going to trial, is going to happen once the gag order is lifted, which will not happen until sentencing, which is scheduled for July 23rd. That day he will be sentenced and also all of the victims in this case will have an opportunity to read their victim impact statements and address the court. But at this point, the plea deal has already been accepted. The guilty plea has already been accepted and there was no mention of allocution or certain criteria within that required. So we will just wait until the gag order is lifted to see what other information could comes to light. The good news with this is that he will spend the rest of his life behind bars, he will have no opportunity for appeal, and we will never hear from this loser douchebag again. However, that's not much solace in comparison when you hear from the family and how they have said very vocally, not all the families, but some, that this is not the outcome that they wanted. Overall, I found this docu series incredibly insightful just because again, we're hearing from people that we have not personally heard from before. Dylan and Bethany's friends, Hunter who went into the house that day, people who knew Brian personally. And so I think it just gives us a better depiction of who Brian is, what the motivation could have been, and more importantly, who these victims were, what their legacy stands for, everything that was a bright light in their life. And I just found it really insightful. So I encourage you to watch if you are interested. If you have been following along with this case, make sure that you take a quick second whatever app you're listening to this podcast on, make sure you click the button in the corner to follow it. It's totally free, but that way you won't miss as those update episodes come out because I release them outside of the normal release schedule. Also, if you're watching this on YouTube, make sure you sure you subscribe so that you don't miss those updates and I'm curious to hear from you. So thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode. Again, the docu series is called One Night in Idaho. I appreciate you tuning in. Let's keep all of the families in our thoughts and prayers. All right guys, thank you so much. And until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, don't hang around any incels and just watch your back. Lock your doors. Lock your doors. Doors. That is the number one thing. Lock your doors. All right guys, thanks. Bye.