304: DISTURBING: 1000+ Unsealed Pages Expose Terrifying New Details in Idaho Murders

Summary

Serialously with Annie Elise - Episode 304: DISTURBING: 1000+ Unsealed Pages Expose Terrifying New Details in Idaho Murders

Podcast Information:

• Title: Serialously with Annie Elise
• Host/Author: 10 to LIFE & Audioboom Studios
• Description: Serialously dives deep into true crime cases, providing comprehensive details beyond headlines. Hosted by Annie Elise of "10 to Life," the podcast uncovers timelines, red flags, social media histories, and more, presented in an engaging, conversational style.

---

Introduction and Overview

[00:00 - 05:23]
Annie Elise introduces the episode by focusing on the Idaho Four case—the brutal murders of four University of Idaho students. Recent developments include the unsealing of over 1,000 pages of Moscow police reports released shortly after Brian Coburger received multiple life sentences. This release offers new insights into Coburger's actions and movements during the crime.

Key Points:

• Brian Coburger's Sentencing: Four consecutive life sentences plus an additional 10 years for burglary.
• Controversial Plea Deal: Coburger pleaded guilty to avoid the death penalty, sparking disagreement among victims' families.
• Emotional Victim Impact Statements: Families expressed frustration over the plea deal and sought justice through their statements.

Notable Quote:

Annie Elise [00:26]: "Coburger is now just a number at Idaho's maximum security institution."

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Sentencing and Family Reactions

[05:23 - 19:23]
Annie discusses the emotional impact of the sentencing, highlighting victims' families' statements. Steve Gonzalez, father of one victim, delivered a powerful impact statement aimed at unmasking Coburger's true nature.

Key Points:

• Steve Gonzalez's Statement: Emphasized focusing on victims rather than the perpetrator.
• Olivia Gonzalez's Statement: Olivia, sister of Kaylee Gonzalez, delivered a compelling and lengthy statement expressing deep emotion and anger towards Coburger.
• Family Dynamics: Some families sought closure through the plea deal, while others demanded a trial for justice.

Notable Quotes:

Steve Gonzalez [05:45]: "We are here to prove to the world that you picked the wrong families due to the killer's incompetence."

Olivia Gonzalez [08:07]: "So sit up straight when I talk to you. How was your life right before you murdered my sisters?"

---

Unsealed Police Reports and New Evidence

[26:23 - 38:53]
Annie delves into the newly released police reports, detailing the crime scene and forensic evidence. Key findings include:

Key Points:

• Crime Scene Details:
  • Madison Mogan: Severely injured with facial disfigurement, likely due to a tactical glove.
  • Kaylee Gonzalez: Multiple types of injuries indicating a prolonged and violent struggle.
  • Zanna Kernodle: Over 50 defensive stab wounds, suggesting intense resistance.
  • Ethan Chapin: Fatal stab wound with additional injuries indicating possible animosity toward men.
• Forensic Evidence:
  • Knife Sheath DNA Match: DNA on the sheath matched Coburger through a trash pull from his Pennsylvania residence.
• Weapon Analysis: K Bar knife consistent with the wound patterns on victims.

Notable Quotes:

Detective [26:58]: "Defendant entered the residence went to the third floor and with a knife, killed Madison Mogan and Caleb Gonzalez..."

Annie Elise [38:53]: "On November 13th at 12:26am, Brian searched for police scanners, specifically looking up Pullman police and fire dispatch live."

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Investigative Developments and Digital Footprint

[38:53 - 54:46]
The episode covers additional evidence uncovered from Coburger's digital activities:

Key Points:

• Digital Surveillance:
  • Phone Activity: Coburger's phone showed movements aligning with his vehicle's surveillance footage.
  • Trash Pull Details: Strong DNA match linking Coburger to the crime scene through his father's DNA.
• Online Behavior:
  • Reddit Survey: Coburger posted a bizarre survey seeking insights into criminal psychology, raising suspicions about his intentions.
  • Amazon Purchases: Bought K Bar knife and sheath, along with survivalist tools, indicating possible planning for the murder.
• Investigative Findings:
  • Cell Phone Pings: Multiple connections to the crime scene area prior to and on the night of the murders.
  • Shovel Evidence: Conflicting soil analysis from a shovel found in Coburger's car suggested usage in the Moscow area.

Notable Quotes:

Annie Elise [42:07]: "The K bar sharpener was also included too. And on paper when you really look at it, it is a strange mix of like self-care and survivalist tools all mixed together."

Detective [43:54]: "Mr. Coburger proceeded to finish his semester of studies at Washington State University and returned to Pennsylvania for the holidays."

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Witness Accounts and Timeline of Events

[54:46 - 79:17]
Annie provides a detailed timeline of the events on the night of the murders, incorporating witness statements and additional findings:

Key Points:

• Timeline:
  • 2:00 AM - 2:30 AM: Initial movements, dog let outside.
  • 4:00 AM: Dylan hears screams; notices a masked man.
  • 4:20 AM: Vehicle speeds away from the house.
  • Morning Discovery: Friends Hunter and Emily arrive to find the victims.
• Witness Statements:
  • Dylan's Account: Describes seeing a man in a ski mask and hearing unsettling noises.
  • Doordash Driver Testimony: Initial confusion over sightings but later claims linked to Coburger.
• Additional Evidence:
  • Soil on Shovel: Conflicting reports on whether it matches Moscow area.
  • Suspicious Activities Prior: Coburger's consistent CO presence near the crime scene area.

Notable Quotes:

Olivia Gonzalez [12:20 - 15:05]: "They would have shown mercy. I won't stand here and give you what you want. I won't offer you trembling disappointments like you thrive on pain."

Detective [50:15]: "Brian's phone went dark from 2:42am to 4:48am just total radio silence. No calls, no text messages, no pings."

---

Suspect Behavior and Background

[80:41 - End]
Annie discusses Coburger's background, behavior reported by acquaintances, and interactions post-arrest:

Key Points:

• Academic and Personal Background:
  • PhD Program Struggles: Lost teaching assistant position and program funding.
  • Social Interactions: Described as intelligent but selfish; had difficulties maintaining personal relationships.
• Incarceration Reports:
  • Inmate Testimonies: Mixed views on Coburger's personality—some see him as intelligent and polite, others note obsessive behaviors and occasional volatility.
• Online Community Reactions:
  • Pro-Coburger Group: Emerged post-sentencing, claiming his innocence and harassing victims' families.
• Police Interviews:
  • Initial Statements: Coburger acknowledged awareness of the murders but showed little remorse or genuine emotions.

Notable Quotes:

Inmate [From Transcript]: "He would often question him about his past criminal offenses and why he was in the maximum security wing."

Annie Elise [90:00]: "Now something else that has popped up that just makes me so enraged, and this came up just recently over the last few days, is that there still, as we know, is a big camp of people who call themselves the pro Burgers, who say Brian's innocent..."

---

Ongoing Investigations and Public Response

[End of Transcript]
Annie wraps up the episode by discussing ongoing updates and encouraging listeners to stay informed through additional resources like Patreon.

Key Points:

• Continuous Information Release: More details are expected to surface as documents continue to be unsealed.
• Community Engagement: Encourages listeners to join Patreon for exclusive content and live updates.
• Personal Reflections: Annie shares her thoughts on Coburger's potential motives and the impact of emerging evidence.

Notable Quotes:

Annie Elise [94:13]: "We watched the ambulance come and we watched them immediately leave. So I think that was a hard top part for sure. That second you realize there's no one to be saved."

Annie Elise [95:23]: "So like I said, this episode was more to go over the document dump and there is more information coming out daily."

---

Conclusion

This episode of Serialously with Annie Elise meticulously dissects the Idaho Four case, unveiling over 1,000 pages of newly unsealed documents that shed light on the gruesome murders and the ensuing investigation. Through detailed analysis of forensic evidence, witness testimonies, and Coburger's digital footprint, Annie provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the case's complexities. Emotional victim impact statements highlight the families' anguish and quest for justice, while ongoing investigations continue to unravel Coburger's motives and behavior patterns. The episode underscores the relentless pursuit of truth in the face of tragedy and the impact of public perception on the grieving process.

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Stay Connected: For more in-depth discussions and real-time updates on true crime cases, consider joining Patreon and accessing exclusive content, live streams, and community discussions.

Disclaimer: This podcast is not affiliated with The New York Times.

Transcript

[Annie Elise]

We are taking a closer look at.

[Bethany]

The case of four University of Idaho.

[Annie Elise]

Students who were killed in their sleep.

[Madison]

We're learning new details about the investigation from hundreds of pages of Moscow police reports. Just hours after Kohberger's multiple life sentences were made official, investigators released a mountain of information. New insight into how the atrocity played out and what they learned about Kohberger's movements. There are hundreds of pages of records.

[Annie Elise]

Coburger is now just a number at.

[Madison]

Idaho's maximum security institution.

[Steve Gonzalez]

We are here to prove to the world that you picked the wrong families due to the killer's incompetence. Now stands before the world and this court unmasked.

[Annie Elise]

Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep.

[Olivia]

Foreign.

[Annie Elise]

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Lessly with me, Annie Elise. And today we are going to go through all of the updates together of what's coming out with the Idaho case. As you know, we are fresh off of the sentencing that just happened recently. There has been a huge document dump where a lot of more details and information has been released regarding this case. We are finding out new, new details about the crime scene, new details in the days and weeks leading up to the murders. There's just a lot of information to go over and it's been kind of trickling in since, as I said, since the sentencing. But I've wanted to wait to do this update video because I wanted to just get all the information that we possibly could. And it's been coming in daily. So now we're at a point where so much has come in through that. I feel like, okay, let's give like the full rundown of everything ready to go, item by item, line by line, and just talk through it and see what we can make sense of. Even though that sounds so stupid because it's like, how do you even make sense of something like this right now? Just to give a little bit of backstory for the sentencing. I'm sure most of you are up to speed, so I won't spend too much time on that. But Brian Coburger, the. He was the accused quadruple murderer of the Idaho Four case. He was sentenced to four consecutive life sentences. He also was given an additional 10 years for the burglary charges and he'll be spending the rest of his life in prison. However, it was obviously a very hot topic, right, because Brian ended up taking a plea deal which he would plead guilty in exchange for the death penalty being removed. And while some families involved in this case felt like that was okay and at least they didn't need to go through a trial and they could just put this behind them and try to move forward. A lot of other families have been very outspoken that they do not agree with this plea deal, that they wanted their day in court, they wanted to go to trial, they wanted him to be put on blast for everything he did and receive some sort of, I don't even wanna say closure, but some sort of peace that way. So it's been a very hot topic for the last several weeks. And because of this, at the sentencing, when a lot of these victims families had the opportunity to read their victim impact statements, I think they were kind of indicative of their frustration with the lack of a trial. Not for everyone, but for some of them. And for the. I'm not gonna again, repeat myself a ton. But for those who didn't follow the sentencing or maybe want more of, like an insight into that, we did have our correspondent in the courtroom where she was breaking down the behavior, the mannerisms, the. What Brian was doing, how even below the waist he was like turning in his chair, how he was so angry when Steve Gonzalez was speaking, who's Kaylee's dad. But then he was very uncomfortable when any female was speaking. And so she breaks it all down, which I also will just say, I think to me, we've all been long suspecting, or least I've been long suspecting, that Bryan Coburger is an incel, which stands for involuntarily celibate. And I think that type of behavior and his response during the sentencing to the different genders kind of ties directly back to that somebody who hates women, is uncomfortable around women, doesn't know how to act, but then hates men because the man is everything they will never be, everything they're not. They get everything that Brian will never get. And so I just thought that that was really interesting. And that whole breakdown from Madison on headline highlights from Gosh from two weeks ago now, so you can go back and listen to that and hear her firsthand account. But just as a high level with the sentencing, it was, of course, very powerful. Nobody was really expecting Haley's father Steve, to even speak and give a victim impact statement because he had been so outspoken about not agreeing with this outcome. But he did speak, and it was a very powerful move because right when he approached the podium, he turned it directly to Brian Coburger so that Brian had to look at him. And he. Brian's face, it was unnerving. He was staring Very intently at Steve. His brows had got, you know, dropped down, and he wasn't breaking eye contact. And it seemed as though he was the one angry at Steve, which can't. Like, can you even believe that a.

[Steve Gonzalez]

Lot of serial killers go down and all we remember is they're the killer's name and not the victims. And maybe we can set a new tone where we focus on the victims and we. We don't even name the person that does this, because I think the newer. And the fame that they get is not helping us at all.

[Hunter]

Yeah.

[Steve Gonzalez]

I'll give you a glimpse a little bit behind the scenes. That podium literally said, do not move. It had it right on there. But some of the other victims families were so scared that they were going to be, like, arrested or they were going to get in trouble if their statements weren't perfect. And I said, I'll go first. Even though I wanted to go last. I said, I will go first, and if I don't get arrested, none of you guys have anything to worry about. So I went in there, turned that podium. I wanted to face him. I wanted to set a tone of what I think a courtroom should look like. A courtroom should be about protecting the victims and not embolding, like, the person who did this. I mean, how many times did we hear that he was, you know, respectful and he didn't even need to stand for saying that, you know, the victims that he killed. I wanted to change that tone a bit. We kind of all worked on our. Our statements together. We even worked with some of the other families on our. On their statements. We're. We're a family of doers. We're families that were prepared for this. Yeah, we were ready. We were ready. And we've been victimized by the court system itself, so it was finally our chance to be like, this is how we course correct. This is how we get in here, and we let people know. This is what Gonzalez is. This is what a G is. And it's not sitting here begging this guy and keep embolding him and keep putting him in positions of power. He was able to dictate the whole process. But that day was our chance to say, you know what? You're not in control anymore. We are. I love the contrast in different families and the way that they can grieve differently. And I think it gives a full breadth of what it looks like to be a victim and to go through this process. For me, I've always said it would be a lot more difficult if he came forward and Just said, I did this and I need to be forgiven. I believe in Jesus Christ, our Lord, our Savior. So if he said that, that would put me in a paradox to where I would have to. Like, I'd have to forgive him, so that would be a lot more difficult. But he's never really taken accountability. He's never shown any remorse. So I'm not there yet.

[Hunter]

Then.

[Annie Elise]

Kaylee's sister Olivia gave a very, very impactful statement. And I know that's probably gone viral, but I'm going to play it for you a little bit here.

[Olivia]

And.

[Annie Elise]

And it was just incredibly moving.

[Hunter]

My name is Olivia, and I'm the big sister of Kaylee Gonzalez. And I was blessed to love Madison Mogan as a sister, too. I'm not here today to speak in grief. I'm here to speak in truth. Because the truth is my sister Kaylee and her best friend Maddie were not yours to take. They were not yours to study, to stalk, or to silence. They were two pieces of a whole, the perfect yin and yang. They are everything that you could never be. Loved, accepted, vibrant, accomplished, brave, and powerful. Because the truth about Kaylee and Maddie is they would have been kind to you if you had approached them in their everyday lives. They would have given you directions, thanked you for the compliment, or awkwardly giggled to make your own words less uncomfortable for you in a world that rejected you. They would have shown mercy. I won't stand here and give you what you want. I won't offer you tears. I won't offer you trembling disappointments like you thrive on pain, on fear, and on the illusion of power. And I won't feed your beast. Instead, I will call you what you are. Sociopath, psychopath, Murderer. I will ask the questions that reverberate violently in my own head, so loudly that I can't think straight most any day. Some of these might be familiar. So sit up straight when I talk to you. How was your life right before you murdered my sisters? Did you prepare for the crime before leaving your apartment? Please detail what you were thinking and feeling at this time. Why did you choose my sisters? Before making your move, did you approach my sisters, detail what you were thinking and feeling before leaving their home? Is there anything else you did? How does it feel to know the only thing you failed more miserably at than being a murderer is trying to be a rapper? Did you recently start shaving or manually pulling out your eyebrows? Why? November 13th. Did you truly think your Amazon purchase was untraceable because you used a gift card? How do you Find it enjoyable to stargaze with such a severe case of visual snow? Where is the murder weapon? The clothes you wore that night? What did you bring into the house with you? What was the second weapon you used on Kaylee? What were Kaylee's last words? Please describe in detail the level of anxiety you must have felt when you heard the Bearcat pull up to your family home on December 30, 2022. Which do you regret more? Returning to the crime scene five hours later? Or never ever going back to Moscow? Not even once, after stalking them there for months? If you were really smart, do you think you'd be here right now? What's it like needing this much attention just to feel real? You're terrified of being ordinary, aren't you? Do you feel anything at all? Or are you exactly what you always feared? Nothing? If you're so powerful, then why are you still hiding? Defendant. You see, I'm here today as me. But who are you?

[Olivia]

Okay.

[Hunter]

Let's try to take off your mask and see. You didn't win. You just exposed yourself as the coward you are. You're a delusional, pathetic, hypochondriac loser who thought you were so much smarter than everybody else. Constantly scolding, turning your nose up to grammar mistakes, nitpicking and criticizing others. You wanted so badly to be different, to be special, to be better, to be deep, to be mysterious. You found yourself thinking you were better than everyone else. And you thought you could figure out the human psyche and see through it all while tweaked out on heroin. Lurking in the shadows made you feel powerful because no one ever paid you any attention in the light. You thought you were exceptional, all because of a grade on a paper. You thought you were elite because your online IQ test from 2010 told you so. All of that effort just to seem important. It's desperate. There is a name for your condition, though. Your inflated ego just didn't allow you to see it. Wannabe. You act like no one could ever understand your mind, but the truth is, you're basic. You're a textbook case of insecurity disguised as control. Your patterns are predictable. Your motives are shallow. You are not profound. You're pathetic. You aren't special or deep, not mysterious or exceptional. Don't ever get it twisted again. No one is scared of you today. No one is intimidated by you. No one is impressed by you. No one thinks that you are important. You orchestrated this like you thought you were God. Now look at you, begging a courtroom for scraps. You Spent months preparing, and still all it took was my sister And Ashith. You worked so hard to seem dangerous. But real control doesn't have to prove itself. The truth is, the scariest part about you is how painfully average you turned out to be. The truth is, you're as dumb as they come. Stupid. Clumsy. Slow. Sloppy. Weak. Dirty. Let me be very clear. Don't ever try to convince yourself you mattered just because someone finally said your name out loud. I see through you. You want the truth? Here's the one you'll hate the most. If you hadn't attacked them in their sleep in the middle of the night.

[Dylan]

Like a pedophile, Kaylee would have kicked your ass.

[Hunter]

Thank you.

[Steve Gonzalez]

Thank you.

[Annie Elise]

And I'll just say all of the statements were fantastic. They were emotional, they were honest, they were raw, they were moving. But there were some statements where you could tell that they were crafted in a way to get under Brian Coburger's skin. Whether it was Olivia's statement and telling him how he's weak, how he's a loser, how he's sloppy and dirty because we know he's, like, obsessed with wanting to be clean. Or Kaylee's younger sister who said, you know, you're used to getting A's in high school and college. Now you're going to be getting the big Ds in prison. It because there was so much intention behind hurting Brian in some of these statements, it almost kind of felt like the roast of Bryan Coburger a little bit.

[Dylan]

I was fueled by seeing the rage on his face. I was prepared to be arrested that day.

[Hunter]

Really? Really.

[Dylan]

No, I'm not joking. I think that every single one of us were. Man, was he mad. That was obviously a big point of why I did what I did to make him feel small, because he is. It actually makes me really emotional. I got up there knowing that my speech wasn't to Kaylee and Maddie, it was for them. I mean, I stalked the stalker. I found everything that I could from him online from the beginning of time to now. It fueled me to know that.

[Annie Elise]

I got you pegged.

[Dylan]

I had one shot at it, and I was gonna make the most of it. So I wanted to maintain that eye contact as much as I possibly could. And when I tell you there's not a human there, right? I'm not scared of this individual. I'm not intimidated by him. Truly, I'm not. But when I tell you there's a primal sense of alarms, like my body was telling me, run, get out. This is a threat. The best description I can give you is like, if I had come face to face with an alien, because back behind there, there's no human being, there's no humanity. But for me, it was just one on one, like, and I was ready to stand on business, right? Like, I was there. There was nothing that was going to make me back down from that moment. And all I felt was rage. Almost from the very, very beginning, all I felt was rage. At one point in my speech, when I'm speaking more to how I'm trying to say this was an impact statement, I'm more so directed towards the judge, and I turn my body in that direction and I could feel that specific stare the entire time. It was unrelenting. And all I remember feeling really was like, this guy's pissed. My whole purpose of that speech was taking back this power and giving it back to Kaylee and Maddie, Zanna and Ethan as well. But for me and my personal connection to Kaylee, Maddie, as my sisters, I wanted to give them the hero moment that I truly feel like they deserve. Throughout this whole process, he has controlled so much of the narrative and it's been focused around him, his name, his actions. And I understand it, but in my shoes, it pisses me off at times because you see Idaho students, University of Idaho students, his name victims, or just the headline of his name. And it's so frustrating because it's like they have names. Kaylee Gonzalez, Madison Mogan, Zana Kernodle, Ethan Chapin. Say it. You know, you take the time to say his name, say theirs. I understand it's four. I understand it takes a second, but you owe them that. So for me, it was about taking back that control from him best that I could, getting under his skin as best as I psychologically could with my limited understanding of what he is and giving it back to the victims the best that I could.

[Annie Elise]

So sentencing happened, and after that, as we know, the gag order was lifted. And with this, what that means is not only that people who were involved in the case can now see speak, but certain documents and certain photographs and information will start to be released. And although we have seen a big document dump, and that's what we're going to talk a lot about today, too, plus some other stuff that just recently came out, there still will be more to come over the next few weeks and months. So don't be surprised if we end up putting out another update video, because it's just slowly now coming to the surface. It's been three years, right? Three years of waiting of Wanting information. And now that the order has been lifted, some of that information is going to start surfacing again. So let me start with the police reports and I'm going to. I just want to go item by item with you and kind of read off what the big takeaways were in them so that you hear the same information and receive the same information that I did. So when officers entered the King Road house, they found Gailey Cansalves and Maddie Mogan in the same bed. Kaylee was on the left side and she was severely injured. So much so that she was unrecognizable. Her face had been stabbed repeatedly and her, quote, basic facial structure was unrecognizable. One officer even said, quote, I was unable to comprehend exactly what I was looking at while trying to also discern the nature of the injuries. And I have to say this is very important here because there was discussion of a second weapon, right? And while it hasn't been confirmed what that weapon was, we will talk about it here in a bit. But Brian Coburger did reportedly have tactical gloves. And for those who are unfamiliar with tactical gloves, it's kind of like they're just like high, high quality, very durable gloves where it would be difficult to penetrate a blade through them. But also the more important part is that on the top side of the gloves, on the top of your hand and your knuckles, there's this. I don't know if it's like plastic or if it's like super dense hardened rubber, but basically like a shell that goes over your knuckles and the top of your hand, kind of like brass knuckles in a way. So it's been reported that he was possibly wearing those at the time of this and that that's what caused Kaylee's facial injuries because he was repeatedly hitting her. Now, is that because he dropped the knife? Because there was so much blood that it slipped out and that's also when he dropped the sheath. So at that point he's just wailing on her because she's fighting back. Or were any of those attack done postmortem or pre mortem, but like just out of anger in addition to the stabbings? Part of me thinks, and this is just my opinion for a second here, guys, part of me thinks that we know he left the sheath behind by accident, so I think he lost control in that moment. We know he probably wasn't expecting Kaylee either, right? So I believe he lost control, may have even dropped the knife and that that's why then she received such a beating because that was his second line of a weapon, you know, to something to use. Then when he's trying to get the hell out of there, he picks up the knife or. Because wherever it is, forgets the sheath because of the chaos in the moment. And then he's, of course, stunned to see Zanna still awake. Caught by surprise from her. And then we know she had the majority of the stab wounds, which I know I'm getting ahead of myself. But just once again, an unforeseen variable that caught him off guard and basically foiled his entire plan.

[Bethany]

Okay, so you guys know I am always trying to increase my sleep quality. Not just my sleep quality, but my sleep comfort. I want to feel like I'm, like.

[Annie Elise]

Sleep in and live in the life.

[Bethany]

Of luxury and, like, the comfiest bed ever. And I've got my mattress game on point.

[Annie Elise]

You guys know that.

[Bethany]

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[Annie Elise]

But whatever, it's real.

[Bethany]

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[Annie Elise]

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[Bethany]

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[Hunter]

Sick.

[Bethany]

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[Annie Elise]

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[Bethany]

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[Annie Elise]

So Madison was on the right side of the bed, and she had a gash that was running from the corner of her eye down to her nose. The bed was also soaked in blood, and the officers noted visible lividity, which, if you don't know what that means, lividity refers to liver mortis, which is one of the stages of death. And it basically means that the blood is settling in your body and it's starting to give your skin a purplish red color. Both girls were also partially covered by a pink blanket, which itself was saturated in blood. And as we know, the knife sheath was found on Maddie's right side on the bed.

[Detective]

Defendant entered the residence went to the third floor and with a knife, killed Madison Mogan and Caleb Gonzalez, the defendant, as he left that room, for whatever reason, ended up leaving, or the sheath for a K bar knife was left on the bed next to Madison Moden's body. And I can jump ahead. That sheath was tested by the Idaho State Police forensic lab, and single source male DNA was found on the snap of that sheath, as well as blood from both Caylee and Madison and other trace evidence. But it's important to note, single source male DNA was on the snap of that sheath.

[Annie Elise]

Now, Kaylee's room, which was just next door to Mattie's, was surprisingly neat. The only disruption appeared to be that the sheets had been pulled back, almost as if someone had been lying there and then quickly got out of bed. I've seen some speculation that maybe she heard what was happening to Maddie and she went in there to intervene. But because her bed was also so neat, I think that maybe she was going to sleep in her own room. But like girls do sometimes, like you're eating, you're debriefing from the night, you're hanging out in the same bed, and then you just, like, pass out and fall asleep. So I don't know why it was the sheet was undone or what happened. And maybe that's a detail we'll never know. As for Kaylee's golden doodle, Murphy. Murphy was found on her bed, scared but physically unharmed. He had been locked in her room during the initial investigation, and then eventually he was found hiding underneath her desk. Police coaxed him out and noted that he didn't appear to be in the room during the attack. And this was based on the fact that he had no visible blood on his fur or his paws. Was so going through this police report moving downstairs, Zanna was found in her room wearing only underwear and a long sleeved gray shirt, both of which were covered in blood. She had clear defensive wounds, too, including a deep gash between her thumb and her pointer finger. Signs that she certainly fought back. And as I said, she had the most stab wounds, over 50 of them. And in according to the autopsy. Again, we'll get into all this. I'm not trying to get ahead of myself, but I want to just give some context. The majority of those 50 wounds were defensive wounds. She fought like hell. Ithan was found in Zanna's bed, and he had a blanket over his midsection and his feet were hanging off the edge. Now, blood spray was found above his head, and he also had two large gashes on the back of his legs that went deep inside the tissue. And we had heard how Bryan Coburger allegedly, like, cut the back of his hamstrings, which I don't think was necessary. Ethan was asleep. I think he probably was killed relatively quickly. We know that the cause of death was the stab wound under his left clavicle. So to me, again, kind of going back to the incel theory, these injuries of his hamstrings being sliced is very indicative of hatred toward men. That's my personal thought, and I will say this too, early on, back in. I think it was January 2023, right after Brian was arrested. Before any details came out, there was a text message circulating about an FBI agent who, you know, share overshared some of the information. And I had a friend of mine also reach out who said, like, you know, and I actually said this in my video. I was like, you know, a friend of mine said that she's close with an FBI agent, that here are some of the details that have come out, including Ethan's hamstrings being cut, including one of the victims, who we now know is Kaylee, her face being disfigured, one victim being stabbed over 50 times, which we now know was Anna. And not like, I get it. That was a lot of information to share early on, but there was a lot of hate that came with that because people are like, it's rumors. It's not confirmed. It's in that. And now looking back, like, it was true. It was true, and it's horrible. And it's also horrible that an FBI agent would release that kind of sensitive information to where it would go mainstream. Right. So anyway, the nightstand in Zanna's room had also been oddly moved. In all of this, it was pushed up against the bed at this, like, very unnatural angle, which might indicate a struggle or somebody bumping into it during the attack. Investigators also found footsteps leading from the crime scene out the back door and then kind of curving around a stump toward the front of the house. They also found smudged fingerprints on the door. Small handprints were discovered on a window just east of the back door. And the screen for that window was found on the ground and also visibly damaged. In the backyard, the police discovered a discarded black backpack. A black vest was also found nearby on Taylor Avenue. Then a few days later, a black glove with visible blood on it was found about 25ft from the front door. The police later determined that that glove wasn't there on the morning of the murders. So we don't know, maybe somebody came back and dropped it off later with somebody trying to play some sort of sick joke. But they did find it. Then on a desk in one of the second floor bedrooms, officers found a rolled up two dollar bill and a mysterious blue powder. We know it was a party house. We know people in college sometimes will partake in drugs. So what that really means, and if it's something more sinister, I don't really know. Now let's go into the coroner's report and the autopsy results. The coroner determined that all four of the victims died from sharp force injuries. But each case did have its own specifics and the details paint a picture of honestly, extreme violence. As I mentioned, Ethan's fatal wound was a stab wound right under his left clavicle and it's severed both his subclavanian vein and his artery. His jugular vein was also cut and he had those deep cuts onto his hamstrings, which I think again may indicate that the murderer, Brian Coburger, had a particular rage toward Ithan or even toward men in general. Now, Ithan only had sharp force injuries. There were no other physical injuries, such as being punched or strangled or anything like that. Zanna's autopsy revealed that she suffered more than 50 stab wounds, many of them defensive. And this led the coroner to conclude that, quote, an intense struggle had occurred. Her fatal injuries included a laceration to the right lung and two to the heart. Like Ethan, she only had sharp force injuries. Maddie's fatal injuries were a laceration to her left lung and another to her liver. The coroner did not mention any defensive wounds and her injuries were also limited to sharp force trauma. It seems as though Maddie got the least of it, which again, it makes you kind of ask the question, right? Is it because he was so angry at everybody else for foiling his plan? If Maddie was in fact the target, which I believe she was, and if you haven't heard my latest episode on that, I will link it in the show notes. But we talk all about the movements that day walking through the house, what that looked like, what the motivation may have been. And it's a lot of conversation and speculation and just my thoughts, but we do talk about it. Now, Kaylee, her injuries really stand out because she had the most complex and varied injuries of all four of the victims. She suffered a left lung laceration, a liver laceration, a cut behind her clavicle that severed both her subclavanian vein and her artery, just like Ethan, and two subdural brain bleeds. And she also had 20 stab wounds in total, which it's later been reported, according to her own father, that she had 34 stab wounds. And Kaylee was the only victim to have multiple types of trauma. She had sharp force injuries, asphyxial injuries, and she even had blunt force injuries. So again, that begs the question, did Brian violently attack her because she ruined his plans with Maddie? Did she fight back? And he lost control of the weapon and that's why he fought her physically so hard. What's the real story there? So, as for the weapon, the coroner concluded that it was not serrated, it was a single edged and extremely sharp weapon, and that a lot of force was used in every single attack. Some of the stab wounds were also so deep that the guard of the knife, you know, that little flat metal piece right before the handle, between the blade and the handle, and it actually left an imprint on the victim's skin. That is how rageful he was, stabbing them with so much force. And some wounds had telltale shapes. The shallower ones had two pointed ends, while the deeper ones showed one pointed end and one squared off shape at the other. Likely caused when that little, like, hilt kind of pressed against the body. So those details helped identify the kind of knife that was used. Eventually, the coroner stated that, quote, the shape and size of the K bar knife that Brian had bought off Amazon was in fact consistent with the wounds on all four victims. Not definitive proof, but definitely damning. Now, let's talk about some key evidence and what goes into this and what came out in this document dump. On December 27, 2022, investigators in Pennsylvania retrieved trash from the Coburger family residence in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. The lab compared a DNA profile that was pulled from the trash to the DNA that was found on that button snap of the K bar knife sheath, the one that had been left at the scene next to Maddie. The analysis showed that the male DNA recovered from the trash belonged to somebody who could not be excluded as the biological father of the suspect, who left DNA on the knife sheath. And statistically, the match was incredibly strong. So strong that at least 99.9999% of the male population could be ruled out as being the suspect's biological father. In other words, Brian's dad was almost certainly the source of the DNA in the trash. And the person who left the DNA on the knife sheath was almost certainly his son. A pretty devastating match to Coburger.

[Detective]

Mr. Kohberger proceeded to finish his semester of studies at Washington State University and returned to Pennsylvania for the holidays. Law enforcement at this point were aware of Mr. Kohberger, had been accessing information about him, were trying to find him. They located him in Pennsylvania and they conducted what's called a trash pull. During the nighttime hours. Agents of the FBI who assisted immensely with this case, working with the sanitation department back in this neighborhood in Pennsylvania, took trash that had been set out on the street for collection, sent the contents of that from the Pennsylvania residents of the defendant's parents to the Idaho State Forensic Laboratory where the lab experts, experts there were able to identify DNA on a Q tip as coming from the father of the person whose DNA was found on the ninth sheath that was next to Madison Logan's body in the bed. Subsequently, an arrest warrant was issued here in Idaho and a search warrant was issued in the state of Pennsylvania with the assistance not only of the FBI, but Pennsylvania State Police. Mr. Coburger was arrested at his parents home to return to Idaho. Upon his return to Idaho, a DNA sample was taken from him and it matched the DNA found on the knife sheath next to Maddie's body at the crime scene.

[Annie Elise]

Also discovered from the night of the murders was that on November 13, 2022 at 12:26am, Brian searched for police scanners. He landed on something called broadcastify.com and he specifically started looking up Pullman police and fire dispatch live. Now that is just hours before the murders are believed to have occurred. Police also found a screenshot that was saved on Brian's phone. And it was a screenshot of the Whitman County Jail roster. And the image showed booking info for a suspect with the initials CEF who had been arrested around the same time as this all went down for a hit and run and a DUI involving a knife. So I don't know if this could have been some bizarre sort of inspiration for Brian or maybe just a disturbing rabbit hole that he fell into. But it was weird that he saved the screenshot and was looking into it, or maybe he was going to try to blame that person for it. I don't really know. Brian had also previously applied for an internship with the Pullman Police Department back in the fall of 2022. And in his application he said that he was interested in helping rural law enforcement improve how they collect and analyze technological data in public safety operations. So basically, I know that was a mouthful, but basically he wanted to help police be better at catching people while also plotting his own quadruple murder himself. Well, single murder turned into quadruple murder in my opinion. And his online footprint didn't stop there. Brian posted a now infamous Reddit survey to multiple subreddits. I'm talking prison felons, prison talk, ex cons, moderators of felon, all sorts of different subreddits, and some of them even banned him for a day with a message saying we do not approve of these posts. Please stop posting this now. The survey post that he was posting in all these threads read hello, my name is Brian and I am inviting you to participate in a research project that seeks to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision making when committing a crime. In particular, this study seeks to understand the story behind your most recent criminal offense with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience. In the event that your most recent offense was not the one that led to a conviction, you may still participate. Additional surveys are included after the open ended section as to best understand your unique traits. The study should take about 15 to 20 minutes to fully complete your identity and all answers provided are completely confidential and the link to the survey is also an anonymous link. The research has been approved by the DeSales University IRP. Participants must be 18 years of age and older. If you opt to participate, you may terminate participation at any time for any reason. If you have any questions about this research, you may contact the research team via email. Student Investigator Brian Coburger at [e-mail] Anonymous link to the study linked here and we all know that that survey was like beyond weird, right? It had questions like what was your thought process leading up to the murders? How did you pick your victim? What did you what were your thoughts at when you left? Did you leave anything behind? Like almost trying to find a blueprint to commit the perfect murder? A file for the documentary called Kids for Cash, which is about a judicial scand where judges sent kids to jail for minor offenses, was also found as being added to Brian's Dropbox between March 5 and March 9, 2022. It's not clear whether this was part of a class assignment or just something that maybe he watched on his own, but it definitely fits this like, dark psychology theme, right? Police also discovered several emails in Brian's files that outlined the issues that he was having in his PhD program. These internal documents showed that he was eventually let go from his teaching assistant position and also lost his program funding, a major academic and professional setback that was likely weighing on him pretty heavily. As investigators then dug deeper into his Amazon purchase history, they learned that Brian bought K Bar Knife and Sheath online, and in that same online order he had also purchased vegan vitamins D3K2 supplements, a 1.5 ton scissor jack. Like a jack to, you know, jack up your car when you're changing a tire. DOT approved warning triangles and a 14 inch universal lug wrench. The Ka Bar sharpener was also included too. And on paper when you really look at it, it is a strange mix of like self care and survivalist tools all mixed together. So it makes you wonder what exactly he was planning and why was the jack and the triangles to like stage that being pulled over and like have somebody stop to help him and then attack someone that way? I don't know. It just raises a lot of questions.

[Detective]

The state's evidence as an overview would show that back In March of 2022, when the defendant was residing in his parents residence or was residing back in Pennsylvania, his home state, he purchased online a K bar knife and sheath with an Amazon gift card that he had purchased shortly prior to the purchase of the knife sheath and sharpener. The state's evidence will show that following Sunday, November 13, 2022, business records show that the defendant began searching for a K bar knife and a K bar knife sheath, as the state believes to replace the one that was left at the scene of the murders. The evidence also will suggest that there were at least attempts by the defendant to delete or alter his purchase history on Amazon where all these transactions had occurred.

[Annie Elise]

Then finally, the police scoured every digital trail that they could find for Kaylee, Maddie, Zanna and Ethan, including Icloud, Gmail, Yahoo, Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, you name it. And not a single one of them had ever searched for Brian with a Y for Coburger, for Papa Rogers, for not for any of that. So this all strongly suggests that the victims did not know Brian at all, meaning that this may have been a totally one sided obsession where he just became fixated on that house and on one or more of the targets inside. Now let's talk about the movements of Brian's car and his cell phone. Because surveillance footage from a neighbor identified in the documents as just TL, showed a vehicle entering King Road at 3:45am on November 13th, 2022, then speeding away at around 4:20 or 4:30am the car didn't have a front license plate or lower fog lights. And as we know, that vehicle would later match Brian's car.

[Detective]

At approximately 4:20 that morning. So this would have been 15 minutes or so later. Finn's car is seen on a surveillance camera for 1112 King Road, which is immediately next door to the west of 1122, leaving the area at a high rate of speed. And if the court were to see that, or anybody in this courtroom were to see that, you, you can see the car almost loses control as it makes the corner, heads north and then turns to go south on Walinta, which is one of the only ways to get out of that part of town. The evidence would show that following that, the defendant in his Elantra drove south of Moscow. We know that he drove on the back roads because there are surveillance cameras on the main, main highways, Highway 95, that would have picked up the defendant's car if he'd gone that route. And they did not show the defendant's car on that route during the time. So we know that he went through a variety of back roads in very rural, isolated part of Lato County.

[Annie Elise]

Then earlier that morning, Starting at around 3:26am Brian's white Hyundai Elantra was picked up on various surveillance cameras. First, it was seen traveling westbound on Indian Hills Drive Drive, then on Steiner Avenue, then crossing South Main street toward Louder avenue by around 3:28am Then at 3:29am the vehicle began circling 1122 King Road, the house of those roommates. It made three passes by the house before returning again at 4:04am for a fourth time. Now, this time the car was seen driving east on King Road and then stopping, then turning around in front of Queen Road. And it looked like it tried to park or maybe turn around in front of the house, but that they couldn't quite manage it. It was kind of like this three point, weird, like, turnaround situation. The vehicle then continued down King Road, turned again in a three point turn at Queen Road and drove back east, which this entire loop, the slow passes, the hesitation, the weird turning, to me it looks a lot like someone who was like, scoping out a target or maybe even building up the nerve to do what they were planning to do. Then at 4:20am the car sped away from the King Road area, driving southbound on Walenta Drive. It didn't reappear until about an hour later. And by 5:25am surveillance cameras in Pullman, Washington, where Brian lived, picked the Elantra up again. So investigators put together a map of all the registered white Hyundai Elantras at Washington State University, and they zeroed in on Brian's as early as November 29, 2022. Once they had a name, they then pulled his license photo and he was listed as 6ft tall with bushy eyebrows eerily consistent with what the surviving roommate, Dylan had described this masked men who entered the house looking like the Elantra, later pinged on license plate readers as Brian drove across the country. It was captured in Loma, Colorado, on December 13, and then again during a traffic stop in Hancock County, Indiana on December 15th. By December 16th, Brian and the Elantra had made its way back, all the way back to Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. And then we, of course, know what happened shortly after that. Now, as for the cell phone data, here's where things get really interesting. On the night of the murders, Brian's phone went dark from 2:42am to 4:48am just total radio silence. No calls, no text messages, no pings, which was obviously a clear attempt to hide his location.

[Detective]

We then move to the early morning hours of November 13, 2022. The state's evidence would show that early morning hours on that day, Mr. Coburger's phone left his Pullman residence, which is an apartment in kind of the north central northwest part of Poland. That phone was then subsequently turned off at approximately 2:54am and remained off until approximately 4:48am on Sunday 13th November.

[Annie Elise]

Then when the phone came back online, it pinged near Blaine, Idaho. Then it began moving south toward Genese, west to Uniontown, and then finally north back up to Pullman. By 5:30am the phone was back at Brian's apartment, which that timeline, as we know, lines up disturbingly well with the path that the car was seen taking later that morning. At around 9am the phone left Brian's apartment and it headed back toward Moscow. It pinged there from 9:12am to 9:21am A very short, very brief, unexplained return to the scene of the crime, which it's been speculated that possibly he was going to, you know, revel in the scene and the chaos that was unfolding, but was surprised that it hadn't started erupting yet. But it's also been said that possibly he was returning back to retrieve the sheath that he had realized he left behind. Although if he did drive all the way back there, I'm not sure why he wouldn't have gone in. Who really knows? But then he ends up heading back to Pullman and he's there by 9:32am so again, was he checking on something? Was he trying to see if the house had been discovered? Did he think that Dylan, after seeing him, had called 911, so he wanted to just, in a sicko, pervert creep way, watch as the chaos was unfolding?

[Detective]

We don't know later that morning, this still this Sunday 13th November of 2022, Mr. Coburger's phone returned to the area of King Road. We don't know exactly what he did, but it returned to that area. It's about 9 o' clock in the morning, was there for about 10 minutes and then returned to his Pullman residence about 9:30. The state's evidence will show evidence taken from the defendant's phone that he took a selfie of himself on his phone in what appears to be the bathroom of his Pullman apartment with a thumbs up.

[Annie Elise]

Then even more chilling cell phone towers show that Brian's phone had been near 1122 King Road at least 12 different times between June and November of that. And all but one of those times occurred in the very late evening hours or early morning hours. One notable example of that is on August 21, 2022, the phone pinged near the King Road residence between 10:34pm and 11:35pm Then just two minutes later at 11:37pm Brian ended up getting pulled over by the local police, which what the heck was he doing in that area, right? Unless stalking, lurking, watching.

[Detective]

The state's evidence would indicate that beginning July 9th of 2022, Mr. Coburger's phone began connecting to a cell tower that serves the area of the 1122 King Road residence in Moscow, Idaho. Now I will acknowledge for the court and all present that there are many residences in that area. It's a dense population of most college related occupants. Between July 9th of 2022 and November 7th, the defendant's phone connected to that particular tower during late night early morning hours 10pm to 4am on approximately 23 times. Now I will acknowledge also we do not have evidence that the defendant had direct contact with 1122 or with residence of 1122, but we can put his phone in that area on those times. In the interim, on August 22nd of 2022, Lake Dall County Sheriff's Deputy Darren Duke conducted a traffic stop in the early morning hour or late evening hours about 11pm on the west side of Moscow on the Moscow Pullman Road. This was the traffic stop of Mr. Coburger's car, which turned out to be a 2015 white Hyundai Elantra with Pennsylvania plates. During the course of the traffic stop, Deputy Duke was able to obtain Mr. Coburger's name, Brian Coburger, his phone number and his address, which at that point was a apartment address in Pullman.

[Annie Elise]

This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Now, I don't know if anyone else feels this way.

[Bethany]

But lately it seems like there is advice coming at us from every single direction. It's cold plunges, journaling, screen detoxes, hot girl walks. I mean, you name it. Don't even get me started on the.

[Annie Elise]

Weighted vests either, right?

[Bethany]

I mean, I feel like there's so much advice out there and it's kind of a struggle to figure out what is helpful, what's just gimmicky, all of those things. But with so much content out there about mental health and wellness, it can be really hard to figure out what actually works for you. And that's why I think something like BetterHelp can make such a difference. Talking to a licensed therapist one on one can help cut through all the noise and just give you real personalized guidance. Better Help is the world's largest online therapy platform with over 30,000 therapists and more than 5 million people served worldwide. You can join a session from wherever you are too, too. It's on your schedule. And if you want to switch therapists, you can at any time. So if you've been feeling overwhelmed or just want support navigating something in your life, this could be a really helpful place to start. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with Better Help and our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com ae that's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com ae.

[Annie Elise]

Now let's talk about some additional evidence outside the police report. The cell phone pings, all of that. I want to talk about some other information that was found and released. Investigators found a shovel in Brian's car and they had the soil on this shovel analyzed to see if it could near the crime scene in Moscow. And one geologist determined that the soil was consistent with samples from the Moscow area and that it could not have come from anywhere else but there, including Pennsylvania, where he was. So that ruled out the idea that the shovel had just been, you know, riding around in his trunk from when he was back home or anything like that. The shovel had been used in the Moscow area. But in true Coburger case fashion, nothing is simple because a different geologist said that the soil probably didn't match the control samples from Moscow at all. That sample contained high levels of pine pollen and interestingly, also pollen grains from basswood and red maple, which are not native to the Moscow area but are commonly Used as ornamental landscaping. So the question is, with all of that, was Brian in somebody else's yard? Was he in some sort of landscaped park? Was he doing something much sketchier with that shovel, perhaps bearing evidence bearing a murder weapon? Something like that. Meanwhile, something kind of odd happened. In March of 2024, a company called Research Strategies, Inc. Started cold calling people all over the county, including some of the actual police officers, asking them a bunch of very specific questions about Brian, the victim, and the case in general. And these survey questions were clearly designed to assess media exposure and public bias. For example, some of them read. Have you read, listened to or seen any news coverage about Brian Coburger or the families of the victims? Have you heard or participated in any rumors surrounding Brian, the victims, or their families? What sources have you used to get your information? Newspapers, Netflix documentaries? Do you know any of the students at the University of Idaho? Do you feel the community has felt excess stress since the murders? Do you think Brian could receive a fair trial? Would you be able to serve on a jury fairly and weigh in only on the evidence? Now, let's talk about what happened the night of the murders or the early morning hours of the murders, I should say, because we now have more statements from the witnesses, we have more information about the movements. And so I want to just go through all of that with you. Between 2 and 2:30am on the night of the murders, Maddie and Bethany let Kaylee's dog Murphy outside to use the bathroom. Shortly after that, Bethany watched the show Baby Daddy on her iPad. But she couldn't remember what episode it was or for how long. Then, sometime after 2:30, Maddie asked Bethany if she knew where Murphy was. Then she left. Left. Bethany locked her bedroom door and she went to sleep. Around 4am Dylan, the other roommate, heard Kaylee scream, saying, somebody's inside the house. Dylan was on the second floor. And she said she heard that scream come all the way from the third floor. So Dylan locked herself in her bedroom after hearing the scream. A little while later, she said she heard somebody, either Kaylee or Zanna, crying in the bathroom. Then, after the sounds of a struggle stopped, Dylan heard a male voice very calmly say, you're gonna be fine. I'm going to help you. Which is chilling, right? Because if Zanna did spook Brian and come, you know, approach him or bump into him on accident, she would probably panic seeing this guy in all black with blood on him and him trying to kind of shuffle her backwards, being like, it's okay, it's okay. I'm gonna Help you. I'm gonna help you. As though he's not the one who just caused whatever happened upstairs. Right then, a few minutes after that, Dylan saw a man in a black ski mask walking near the second floor patio. She said that he was about six feet tall and that he did see her, but he just kept walking and left through the patio door. That same patio door was still open when the officers arrived later that day.

[Detective]

There were two other roommates in the house, and they were already asleep. During the course of this, one of those roommates awoke, looked out her door, not knowing what was going on, and saw the defendant, who was dressed in black with black bag on, holding some sort of container in his hand. And she saw him leave the house through the direction of the kitchen, where that sliding door is that I mentioned before.

[Annie Elise]

Now, there's been a lot of scrutiny as to why 911 wasn't called right away, why Dylan didn't call 911 the moment she saw the masked man. And when asked why she didn't call 911 after seeing him in the house, Dylan told the police that she had been intoxicated, that she, quote, didn't want to believe what was going on. So after that encounter, Dylan went to Bethany's room, and there they ended up sleeping in the same bed that night. And told the police later how they both get scared very easily. Dylan told Bethany what she saw, but Bethany reportedly didn't think too much of it at the time. She assumed that it might have just been someone from Ethan's fraternity house house playing a prank on them. And sure enough, at around 4:20am, Bethany had woken up in her first floor room, which was kind of more of like the basement level. And it was after hearing what sounded like a firecracker and seeing a flash. At the time, she thought it might have been, again, one of Ethan's frat brothers just playing a joke. But she also said that she heard Murphy the dog barking during that time. Bethany tried calling all of the victims between 4:21 and 4:31am but she didn't get any responses. She and Dylan were both still groggy, still a little drunk. They had been drinking all night, you know, so they just went back to sleep, unsure if anything serious had actually happened or if they were just being paranoid or still so intoxicated that they didn't understand what was really happening. Bethany then woke up again in the morning. I believe it was around 7, and she had a toothache. She called her dad, who's a dentist. He told her to take some Advil and go back to sleep. Sleep. Which she did. And then she woke up again around 11:56am at that point, she asked her friend Emily to come over. And Emily brought her boyfriend, Hunter. And that's when Hunter entered the house. That's when he saw Zanna and Ethan. He shuffled the girls outside and he directed them to call 911911.

[Olivia]

Location of your emergency is the address of the emergency. What is the rest of the address? Oh, Kings Road. Okay, and is that a house or an apartment? It's a house. Can you repeat the address to make sure that I have it right? Okay. To you guys, we're. We live at the White, so we're next to them. I need someone to repeat the address for verification. The address? 1122 King Road. And what's the phone number that you're calling from? What's your phone number? And tell me exactly what's going on. One of our. One of the roommates has passed out and she was drunk last night and she's not waking up. Okay. Oh, and they saw some man in their house last night. Yeah, hi. And are you with the patient? Okay, I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around. Can I just tell you what happened? Pretty much what is going on currently. Is someone passed out right now? I don't really know, but pretty much at 4:00am Okay, I need to know what's going on right now. If someone has passed out. Can you find that out? Yeah, I'll come. Come on, we gotta go check. But we have. She's not waking up. Okay, one moment. I'm getting help started that way. It. Okay. And how old is she? She's 20. 20, you said? Yes, 20. Hello? Hello? Okay, I need someone to stop passing the phone around because I've talked to four different people. Sorry, they just gave me the phone. Is she breathing? Hello? Is she breathing? No. Okay, I can't talk to them. They need you to talk to me. Hello? Okay, I have already sent the ambulance and law enforcement. Stay on the line. If there is a defibrillator available, send someone to get it now and tell me when you have it. Say that again. There's a police here right now. Okay, if there's a defibrillator available, send someone to get it now and tell me when you have it. Do you have a defibrillator? Yes, do you have one? Are you talking to the officer? Yes. Okay, I'm gonna let you go since he's there with you and can help you. You okay? Thank You. Bye. Okay.

[Annie Elise]

Bethany also shared some very creepy context from earlier in the month. She recalled an incident where Kaylee had taken Murphy outside and she noticed a man standing right above the house to the south, just staring down at her. Now, Kaylee was so freaked out by this that she called the roommates immediately, texted them, asking when they were going to be home, and she told quite a few people about this. Then on November 4th, just nine days before the murders, the roommates came home at around 11am and they found their door just open, kind of hanging loose on its hinges. Now, Kaylee wasn't home at the time, but Zanna's dad ended up coming over and fixing it. In her statements, Bethany also said that both Ethan and Zanna regularly snorted Adderall and that they had done so the night of the murders. She wasn't sure, but she suspected that Kaylee might have occasionally used Adderall as well, which that would explain the two dollar bill that was rolled up and possibly the blue substance. I don't know what color Adderall is, I'm just guessing. Bethany also shared that Kaylee was very into crime shows and that she would regularly check the registry list, see if anybody was local and popping up around them. She liked to be hyper aware of all of the dangers in her surrounding areas, which kind of, I mean, when you think about it, it makes what happened to her even more devastating. She was trying to be hyper aware. She thought someone might have been watching her, stalking her. So she told them she checked the area to see if there were any, you know, offenders around and seemingly fought like hell too, against Brian. Now, here's another detail that I think is interesting, and it doesn't necessarily mean anything concrete, but on November 10, 2022, just three days before the murders, Bethany and Brian were at the same target in Moscow. Target? The store, you know, the big superstore. It's unclear if they were there at the same exact time, but they were both at the same store the same day. Which is super eerie because also, why was he in Moscow that day? I get it, it's close to Pullman, but still, it just again, makes you wonder. So speaking of the discovery and the morning of the murders, just before noon on the day that the bodies were discovered, the surviving roommates, as I mentioned, had called Emily and Hunter, saying that they couldn't wake up Zanna, that Emily and Hunter needed to come over, like they didn't know what to do. They were scared. So they arrived to the house at around 11:55am Hunter said he Initially didn't even notice Ethan. He only saw Zanna. And he didn't even immediately process what he was looking at that and seeing that what was all over her face in the room was dried blood. He thought it was just a mess, that they had just been messy. So he kind of just stood there for a second trying to make sense of all of it. Then once it all started to click in his mind, not knowing if there was still somebody dangerous in the house house, Hunter ran to the kitchen and he grabbed a steak knife so that he could protect himself. He then went back to Zanna's room and checked the closet to see if anybody was hiding inside, which that just tells you how chaotic and confusing this whole scene was for the people who first arrived on scene. They were really just trying to make sense of what they were seeing. Emily later told investigators that Dylan had called her around 11:51am and had said something to her along the lines of, last night, at around 4am she heard and saw a man and that she and Bethany were locked in their rooms sleeping. Emily also said that Dylan told her that she heard Kaylee scream and run upstairs and that she had seen that man, quote, staring at her. But Emily said Hunter tried to shield her from seeing how bad that scene really was.

[Madison]

Hunter and Emily say the fall weekend started like any other, with a big football game, the friends snapping this photo that Saturday.

[Emily]

It was a normal weekend for us, just hanging out with our friends.

[Madison]

The next morning, Emily says Dylan, one of the surviving roommates, called her, concerned, asking her and Hunter to come over. In the documentary, you tell the story of really not feeling alarmed when Dylan called you.

[Annie Elise]

I joked around with her on the phone. You know, it's something you would never expect.

[Emily]

It's November, so I had shorts on, slides on, Like, I wasn't prepared to obviously stay there. I. I was just going over to check to see what's going on. I would say as soon as you get there, you know something's wrong.

[Madison]

Hunter was the first person to arrive to King Road to discover what happened. Their friend Josie Louderan, who was also there, describing the moments in the docuseries.

[Hunter]

As soon as I stepped in the.

[Annie Elise]

House, I was like, oh, something is so not right.

[Hunter]

Like, you could feel it almost. Hunter was ahead of me and Emily and immediately was pushed out.

[Annie Elise]

And Hunter was like, get out.

[Hunter]

Somebody call 91 1.

[Madison]

You hear Hunter on the 911 call telling the girls there was an unconscious person protecting them from the graphic details.

[Olivia]

Is she breathing? No.

[Madison]

How did you remain so calm in.

[Emily]

That moment, truly in my heart, I believe God was with me that day, and he gave me the strength to get through that day.

[Madison]

As authorities entered the home, the friends say they were told to sit outside waiting for hours with little information.

[Annie Elise]

We watched the ambulance come and we watched them immediately leave. So I think that that was the. That was a hard top part for sure. That second you realize there's no one to be saved.

[Olivia]

Right.

[Madison]

Their best friends inexplicably murdered, not knowing who was responsible or why they feared for their own safety.

[Emily]

We just left to get away, be safe.

[Annie Elise]

Yeah. I don't feel safe. No.

[Madison]

In the nearly seven weeks it took police to arrest a suspect, Emily Hunter, and surviving roommates Dylan and Bethany became the targets of online sleuths and social media attacks.

[Emily]

Lots of threats, people saying I should confess to murdering them. I felt like I was less than a person in that point in my life.

[Annie Elise]

Multiple neighbors also recalled hearing the dog Murphy barking that night. One said that the barking started at around 4am and that it went on until about 4:45am another one pegged it closer to 4:20 to 5am and they emphasized that the barking was very out of the ordinary, not like Murphy's usual behavior. Now, in regards to being stalked or being targeted, Maddie's parents told the police that she had never mentioned being followed or stalked by anyone. 1. However, several of Kaylee's friends said that she had brought up a stalker. Back In September of 2022, for example, one friend identified as J.L. said that Kaylee once told her that a man had followed her around the Winco grocery store, then followed her out to her car and even tried to get inside it. Another friend described three separate occasions when Murphy the dog ran toward the woods behind their house and then wouldn't come back when he was called for, which, again, was totally unlike him. The roommates even had heard weird noises out there at one point, too, and began to worry that somebody was watching them. That same friend also recalled an incident where she and Kaylee had returned home and found the sliding door open and Murphy was missing. So was this a possible dry run? Maybe. Was Brian going to the house trying to get familiar with Murphy so that Murphy wouldn't bark at him on the day of the murder? Who knows? A sorority president going by RH told police that Zanna and Ethan occasionally also did cocaine, but they emphasized that it wasn't anything big and that nobody in that house was selling drugs. A different friend, going by the initials K.N. said that Zanna was, quote, pretty into cocaine. And they also believed that Kaylee used it occasionally. Now the reason I bring that up, not that it, you know, matters what somebody's drug use is, especially in college, people are going to try different things. Maybe not hard drugs, but you know what I mean, there's no, you know, it's not to shame them, but it's because a big theory and rumor that was put out there at the very beginning of this was that King Road was a draw, a drug house, that this was all a drug deal gone bad, that it was somebody retaliating against them, that Brian's being framed for this and that like it's really, it all leads back to drugs, which I know a lot of people still believe that as well. I personally don't. I think Brian's the guy. I think they got the right guy. I think it was because he wanted to see if he could get away with murder. But I just want to give you all of the details that are released so that you can of course form your own conclusions and decipher it how you want. Now what's weird is in a possible pre crime sighting, a woman living just 0.13 miles from the house told the police that either in August or September of 2022, she and her daughter saw a man in their yard who was just pacing around and looking very nervous. She described him as having curly hair and a big nose. And she also later said that she was 92% sure that it was Brian Coburger. He walked past their house, disappeared, then returned 15 minutes later walking that same route in reverse again. Trial runs, getting comfortable, casing the areas, who really knows? Another reporter reported seeing a white sedan parked in the area for over an hour back in June or July of 2022. So could that have been Brian doing early surveillance? One especially eerie tip came from a Walmart employee because while a detective was browsing the knife aisle, the employee mentioned that two to three weeks earlier a white college aged guy had come in and it was asking for a black ski mask that would cover his whole face. She said that he was taller than she was and that he had a tan complexion which, which doesn't quite match Bryan Coburger. But because they only had camo masks, he left and didn't buy anything. Now let's talk about the door dash of it all because this has been a recent development over the last couple of months and some people suspect that it's why Brian wanted to accept a plea deal to begin with because he was so spooked that this doordash driver saw him. So the doordash driver with the initials of M.M. made three deliveries to the King Road Queen Road area that night. Night her final stop was 21122 King Road and it was just before 4am she said that the porch light made the house number difficult to see, so she ended up hanging around for about 15 minutes. She said that she initially parked out front and she saw a woman in the third story bathroom a few times during this time. Then, because the delivery app told her to, she circled to the back lot and started walking down the road that runs just east of the house. House. That's when this light colored sedan pulled up next to her. She described the driver as white, with a red or blonde spiked hair and a light colored collared shirt, saying he was, quote, completely zoned in, just tunnel vision on whatever his task was. She didn't recognize the car or the driver and then she walked back to her Subaru. Surveillance shows that at 3:58am Brian's White Elantra pulled in right behind this doordash driver's car, but she never reported seeing it. Police eventually determined that the light sedan that MM had described was actually a light colored SUV that left shortly after. Again, she reportedly never saw the Elantra at all. Yet in a recording that was dated September 4, 2024, she is reportedly heard saying, I saw Brian there. I parked right next to him.

[Hunter]

So yeah, because I'm a doordash driver.

[Annie Elise]

So yeah, you have to testify in which murder case?

[Olivia]

Oh.

[Annie Elise]

My. Another delivery driver also reported seeing someone who looked like Brian back in 2022, saying that he was wearing all black with unusual, quote, boxing or elf shoes and that he was was standing on a footpath near Taraview Drive, which had a direct view of many female tenants. Then in late 2024, police started getting repeated calls from a woman with the initials H.H. and she was claiming that she had evidence to exonerate Brian. But despite multiple conversations, she never actually shared any of that evidence. And she admitted that she had never seen him and had never spoken to him. So seemed like somebody maybe just looking for clout or someone trying to just like throw a wrench in the investigation.

[Bethany]

Okay, so real talk. I have never been a big coffee drinker. I've always felt like it made me jittery, upset. My stomach didn't sit really well with me. I also haven't really ever found one.

[Annie Elise]

That I like the taste of.

[Bethany]

But somehow after recently trying everyday doughs, it has just totally changed that. And it's what they call functional coffee because it does more than just give you this caffeine boost. It actually is made with functional ingredients like L Theanine, which helps with calm focus, gut health, even skin support. So there's no crash, no jitters, no weird side effects. It's just this like smooth, easygoing, feel good energy.

[Annie Elise]

Even my husband Jeremiah, who was like.

[Bethany]

A coffee drinker through and through, loves it. He is now like fully on board with it. And sometimes even when I'm like making my own in the morning, he like hijacks it and takes it for himself, which I need to talk to him about that. But anyway, we don't always agree on our morning routines. And this is one thing that not only do we agree on, but we're.

[Annie Elise]

Kind of fighting over sometimes.

[Bethany]

And here's the exciting part. Everyday Dose is now in Target stores nationwide. And I know all you listeners.

[Annie Elise]

You love Target like I do.

[Bethany]

They're even doing a buy one, get one deal. Just grab any two everyday dose products and they will reimburse you for one. Visit everydaydose.com seriously for all the details. And even if you're not a coffee person, maybe give it a shot because clearly neither was I and I am now converted again. That's everydaydose.com serial.

[Annie Elise]

Now let's talk about the people who knew Brian and could speak to his behavior before the murders occurred and even after the murders. I guess you could say so. After the murders, investigators spoke with several of Brian's fellow PhD students and his co workers at Washington State University. And let's just say not everybody had glowing things to say about him. One fellow teaching assistant said that he had, quote, considered Brian a friend, even described him as being very intelligent, but also very selfish. He claimed that Brian would regularly mislead him about their shared assignments and that he would dump his own workload onto him. He added that Brian was, quote, frequently 20 minutes late to their classes and that he liked to discuss his area of study, which was criminal decision making and burglary type crimes. That same TA said that Brian came to his dorm room around the time of the murders and was acting very strong strange, saying he was, quote, talking much more than usual and acted like, quote, someone who wanted to vent. The same student also told police that he had noticed visible injuries on Brian's face and hands on two separate occasions. This was in October and November of 2022. One of the injuries was a large scratch on Brian's face that looked like fingernail marks. Another time, he noticed wounds on Brian's knuckles and when he asked Brian what happened, Brian had said that he had been in a car accident, which we haven't been able to find any report of that we didn't see any damage to his car. So it begs the question, if he had scraped up knuckles and fingernail markings on his face in the days leading up to the murders or weeks leading up to the murders too, did he go for a trial run? Is there another victim out there? What caused those? And why would he lie about a car accident? Another co worker at WSU told police that Brian used his position as a teaching assistant to, quote, inappropriately interact with female students. The man said that Brian really wanted a girlfriend, and he added that the two of them had talked about how Brian wanted a girlfriend on many occasions. Brian also asked his co workers for help defending himself against misconduct allegations from a professor. But the co worker refused, saying that he thought Brian was a dishonest person. Now, again, not to harp on the whole incel theory of it all, but if him wanting a girlfriend was always the topic of discussion, that if you are very. If you're familiar with any incels or Elliot Roger, you know that that is like the. They get tunnel vision. That's the only thing they can think about is, I want a girlfriend. Why are other men getting girlfriends and having sex and I'm not? Why me? Why me? All of these things. And it ends up creating such a deep, deep seated hatred for women, for men, because they have everything in life that he doesn't have and will never have. Now, text messages between professors at WSU also show that Brian was definitely not a favorite among the faculty. In August of 2022, one professor asked, do you want to take coburger? He listed you and blank as people he was interested in working with. The reply was, if I must. Then on September 14, another professor wrote that they were trying to stage a quote, intervention because Brian had apparently offended multiple female students. It's like nobody wanted anything to do with this creep. Not the students, not the teachers, certainly not the majority of the female population, right? He was a creep. He was a loser. He was a little douchey twerp. I mean, through and through. Now, one woman that he did connect with on Tinder, he had matched with her on Tinder, said that they did bond over horror movies. When she mentioned liking the Rob zombie movie Halloween, or like the many versions of Halloween, Brian apparently asked her what she thought the worst way to die would be, to which she replied, by a knife. Then he followed up that statement by asking, like a K bar knife, which I gotta say, is just incredibly on the nose, because we know that is the weapon that he used on the four victims. She, of course, ghosted him after that. She was like, who is this creep? But Tinder ended up saying that there were no records tied to the user information that she gave to the police. So it's unclear if this interaction actually happened. Another report came from an adult dancer saying that she encountered a man that she believed to be Brian between 2008 and 2019 at a strip club. And this club was about two hours away from his home in Pennsylvania. She said that he was the only customer there during her stage set and that he muttered about, quote, wanting to kill people. She said that he muttered this under his breath at least twice. Then when she jokingly asked, like, well, who? He reportedly replied, whoever I want. She offered him a private dance, and during which he allegedly insisted that she look directly at him in the eyes. And then he asked weirdly personal questions, like where she lived, what kind of car she drove. And she says that she found it incredibly creepy, so she didn't like it. It put a bad taste in her mouth. And he apparently never came back to the club again. Another tip came in from someone who claimed that Brian had taken PhD courses at Oklahoma State University. They alleged that he became close with a professor whose initials are J.D. who gave him a K bar knife and also encouraged violent ideation. The same witness said that Brian had, quote, a sloppy, homicidal mindset and possibly even had a psychotic break. They also claimed that the professor was a, you know, martial arts instructor and a predator who, quote, initiated Brian into brutality. But here's the catch with all of this. This witness had submitted 36 tips to the FBI in the recent years, and the police couldn't verify that Brian ever even attended Oklahoma State. So take this one with, like, you know, a grain of salt, a truckload of salt, because it doesn't really seem like it's panning out. Brian's past landlords also had a couple of interesting stories, too. They said that they once found a broken, serrated cooking knife blade in the gutter outside of his apartment. The handle was missing, and the blade was about 8 inches long and 2 inches wide. Cops didn't think that it was used in the murder, obviously, but it still is weird when you think about it. Now let's talk about Brian's initial interview with the police case. During his initial interview, Brian talked a bit about his background and how he was interested in criminal justice. He also mentioned that he had once considered becoming a police officer, but ultimately didn't pursue it because he didn't want to commit to that path unless he was, quote, absolutely sure. Then when one of the detectives brought up the quadruple murder, the deaths of all these victims, Brian immediately acknowledged it. And he responded, of course. Of course I know about it. He then said that it was the incident that the police had been investigating for, quote, how long has it been? Which is kind of a strange way to refer to a quadruple homicide investigation that he was potentially involved in. Like, how long have you been investigating that incident? Of course I know about it. Then when he was asked why he wanted to be a professor instead of a cop, Brian said it was because he loved being in college. He said that, to him, quote, knowledge was far more important than money, which to me, I wonder if the reason he loves school so much is because that's where he's noticed that's where he excels. He gets straight A's or whatever. So it's like, maybe that's the only thing in his life that ever made him feel proud or accomplished, and that's why he likes school so much. Then at one point, Brian also shared a little bit about his personal beliefs. He says that he was raised Christian, but that he had always been skeptical, except, interestingly, when, quote, he was confronted with the beauty of the natural world, which almost felt like, poetic in a way that kind of makes you wonder, like. Like, was he trying to sound profound, philosophical even, or was this more of just, like the intellectual Persona that he clearly wanted to present, but to be like, I've always been skeptical until I was finally confronted with the beauty of the natural world? I mean, no, no, no, no. Now, let's talk about prisoners who have encountered Coburger since all of this first went down. A male inmate who encountered Brian in jail did not hold back. He called Brian, quote, a fucking weirdo. And he said that he would have assaulted him if he wasn't worried about getting into more legal trouble. That same inmate said he had no doubt that Brian committed the murders, adding that his eyes tell a story. Another inmate who was housed next to Brian had a more nuanced take. He described Brian as, quote, highly intelligent and polite for the most part. He even called him the smartest person he had encountered while in confinement. But even that inmate admitted that Brian had some very strange habits. He said that Brian would, quote, wash his hands dozens of times every day and that he would spend 45 minutes to an hour in the shower. He would also Be awake almost all night. And he would only take a nap during the day. Brian apparently would, quote, often question him about his past criminal offenses and why he was in the maximum security wing. Almost like Brian was trying to study him. The same inmates said that there was really only one time that Brian ever lost his temper. He had been video chatting with his mom, which he apparently did for hours. And during one of these calls, this inmate was like watching a sporting game in the background and casually said like, you suck, presumably to the players. But Brian immediately jumped up, got in his face, well, face to bars, and aggressively asked if the comment was about him or his mom. Which I gotta just say, kind of a mama's boy. But also for someone who studied criminal behavior, Brian definitely was not great at managing his emotions. The inmate also mentioned that Brian seemed excited to be transferred to ADA county, which kind of might say something about how isolated or uncomfortable he was at the initial facility. Now something else that has popped up that just makes me so enraged, and this came up just recently over the last few days, is that there still, as we know, is a big camp of people who call themselves the pro Burgers, who say Brian's innocent, that he only took the plea deal because he's scared to get the death penalty, that he's being framed, blah, blah, blah, this is something bigger, all these things. But as if that's not bad enough, right? And as if it's not bad enough that all these people on YouTube are like pushing that the roommates are involved and that Brian's innocent. Some people have even gone as far as immediately following the sentencing to threaten the victims families. One person even text messaged Kaylee's mother saying, I was in the courtroom during the sentencing, I sat right behind you and Bryan Coburger is innocent. I know a lot of wannabe serial killers and don't worry, I've given them your address. I mean just very scary and like unhinged behavior. At this point. The families should be left alone. All they should be worried about is grieving, getting closure, getting peace. Yet these fuckwads are still screwing with them, threatening them, reaching out to them, saying Brian's innocent, that he was wronged, slandering the roommates names. It's so horrible. And it's like if you are one of those people and you are hearing this or watching this, you deserve whatever karma is coming your way. You are sick in the head.

[Reporter]

I first want to ask you though, and I noticed this, I was sitting behind you guys and I saw Christy, your wife, pull out her phone and look sort of disturbed. And then you guys called the deputy over and then he was looking at your phone. And I kind of figured something bad was going on. And it turns out that it was a threatening text message that she had received during the actual sentencing while the victim impact statements were going on. I don't wanna read the whole thing. Cause I just don't wanna give glory to whoever did this. But I do wanna read a little of it so people can and see what exactly happened. It says sitting near you in court and watching you is a joke. You know, that Brian is innocent. Making threats to Brian about getting raped in prison was very silly. I am in contact with a lot of serial killers, including btk. And I have been put in contact with a wannabe serial killer who is in Moscow, Idaho. And I have given him your address. And I don't think people realize, Steve, that this is the kind of stuff that you and your family and I'd imagine the other victims too, I mean, you guys have been having to deal with this for some time. But during the actual sentencing, what did you make of it?

[Steve Gonzalez]

Yeah, the sentencing. There's definitely an element of crazy people that are that gravitate towards these type of events. That's why I've always hoped that the court would use force and be very careful with all the voices that they're talking to. Like, you know, make sure that we're holding these people accountable and, you know, be tough on them.

[Reporter]

So are they going to do an investigation again? I saw the deputy take Christie's phone. I mean, is there any way to trace and figure out who that was? I'd imagine it wasn't really someone in the courtroom. I guess it could be, but seems like that part was probably just made up.

[Steve Gonzalez]

Yeah, I think so as well. They just wanted to piggyback right off something she had said because it was live TV or slight delay, close to live tv and it was accurate, you know, so we did pass it on to our lawyer and he started working with the investigators. And they're definitely going to, or if they already have it, tracked this person down and they'll be held accountable.

[Reporter]

I spoke with Olivia yesterday. Your daughter and your victim impact statement was obviously really just intense and hers was intense. And both are getting a lot of attention, I think have really sort of inspired the world in a way. She told me that, you know, she felt relieved after the hearing that she actually did feel just a little better in general. Did you feel the same way? I mean, how are you doing now?

[Steve Gonzalez]

Yeah, to be honest, I felt great because I felt like the first time the courtroom was. Had a representation that was in harmony of our family. We're not going to sit there and honor a mass murderer and say that he can sit on his butt because he was honorable to the sword. He was honorable to the judge. Of course he's going to be honorable to the judge. Judge, can he decide if he lives or die? But he wasn't honorable to us. And that's. If you're not there for the victims, then what's the reason at the courtroom, you know, so for the first time we set the tone and we wanted to like have some, some power in that courtroom and dictate some things to him. So then he was just sitting there getting railed on.

[Annie Elise]

So like I said, this episode was more to go over the document dump and there is more information coming out daily. So I'm sure we'll be back with more soon. But if you want more of the deep dive into what happened that night, the movements, the motive, my. My thoughts of the motive, the discovery the next morning, firsthand from Hunter, who we hear from. I did do an episode a couple of weeks ago. I mentioned it a little bit earlier. I'm going to link it. There was a docu series that came out called One Night in Idaho, came out earlier in July. I was able to watch it a few months before it was released because Amazon gave it to me to watch. And a lot of new information was in that docu series. But we do a deep dive into the night of the murders and what happened, how it could have happened so quickly when Brian then sits down in that chair in Ethan and Zanna's room and leaves the bloody impression. And was that because he was so drained from the adrenaline rush of killing the four people, or was that because that's when he was disrobing his hazmat suit or whatever he was wearing. And then that's the reason he didn't attack Dylan, because he was already cleaned up at that point. He didn't want to risk getting blood on him or leaving DNA behind rather than like the initial thought of mine, whereas that he just bypassed her because he was so physically exhausted. We talk about all of that. So I'll link that it was just a few weeks ago. You can find it in the feed too, if you don't want to. Just click the direct link. And it's called. Let me see what's it called. Let me just pull it up really quick. It's on the podcast and on YouTube. But as you know, podcast is unedited and uncensored. YouTube likes to censor me. So if you want the uncensored version, you can listen on the podcast. Okay. So it's a few back in the feed from July 8 and the title is One Night in Idaho. Friends who Found Victims Speak out and Brian Coburger's True Motive. And it's a deep dive into all of this. So other than that, I've also been going live randomly on Patreon where just kind of randomly each day as new information is coming out. And I'll do a live stream with you guys and then we'll talk in our group chat on Patreon too. So if you feel like not only with this case but with other cases that are happening right now that you want to just like be in the know and not wait for these formal episodes, Patreon is definitely the place to be. We have exclusive episodes over there. There's about a hundred that you can unlock right now. All the other episodes that I put out are ad free over there. And then yeah, I just do live streams randomly when new stuff breaks and when new information comes out. And then we have our group chat too so you can get access to that. It's linked in the show notes. It's also easy. Patreon.com Annie Elise but that's the place you're going to want to be if you want to hear more about all these breaking cases. Like right now, for example, the case in Arkansas with the two murdered hikers. We have talked about Aaron Spencer, the father who is being charged with second degree murder for killing his daughter's rapist and abductor, which feels so ass backwards. Right? It's where we just talk about everything. So that's it for the document dump today. Again. I'll probably back with you soon with another update because more information just keeps coming out daily. But this is at least like a big bulk of it. So I appreciate you guys tuning in. And as a reminder, going on the second leg of this tour in a couple weeks here we're going to hit Raleigh, North Carolina, Atlanta and Nashville. And if you want tickets, there's still a few left. I think we're sold out for meet and greets. Maybe not. There might be a couple left. So you can go to annie elise.com go to the tour tab. But we had this first run just last week and or a week and a half ago now where it was Toronto, Boston, New York, Philly and D.C. and it was great. We talk about an all new exclusive case. We deep dive into it. Exclusive CCTV footage interviews that we filmed on our own and flew out there for. And it was just really nice connecting with so many of you in person and meeting so many of you one on one. So I appreciate you guys all coming out. All right, guys, that's it for today. I know I've tried to sign off like three times, but that's it. For realsies this time. Thank you so much for being here. I will talk with you again on Thursday with headline highlights. And until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people, don't join any cults, and don't be an incel. Just don't. All right, thank you so much and bye.