Serialously with Annie Elise

Episode 344: Vegan Hipsters Start Their Own Murdering Cult?! | The Zizian Group
Release Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Annie Elise

Episode Overview

Annie Elise unpacks the wild, disturbing story of the Zizian group—a niche online community turned violent cult whose members carried out a string of shocking murders across the United States over six years. Centered initially on extreme veganism, online philosophy, and fears about AI, the group spiraled from esoteric blog posts into real-world violence, fake deaths, and murder conspiracies. Annie guides listeners through key people, motives, crimes, and the lingering dangers of unchecked ideology forming in the darkest corners of the internet.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins of the Zizian Group

• Online Roots & Philosophy

  • Formed in deep internet forums, the group bonded over obscure, hyper-rationalist blog posts (02:28).
  • Hallmarks: Rejection of human emotion, absolute reliance on logic, growing paranoia about the world’s brokenness.
  • Centered on “Timeless Decision Theory”—the belief in responding to any slight with immediate, harsher retaliation (05:27).

• Cult or Fringe Philosophy?

  • No classic cult trappings (matching outfits, charismatic leader worship, isolated compounds).
  • Most joined online; many had successful, educated backgrounds (e.g., tech/finance degrees) (08:27).
  • But: Began isolating from family/friends, seeing themselves as “the chosen ones.”
  • Quote (Annie Elise, 07:53):

    “Anytime somebody refers to themselves or a group that they are a part of as ‘the chosen ones’… you are in a cult.”

2. Jack Lasota aka Ziz—The Leader

• Grew up in Alaska; computer science prodigy, NASA intern, Harry Potter fanfiction writer (04:54).
• Blogged heavily about radical veganism, AI apocalypse scenarios, and logic-driven morality.
• To be a “Zizian,” strict veganism was required—to the extent that some condoned violence toward meat-eaters (06:40).
• Dropped out of grad school, lived on a tugboat, amassed followers in Vallejo, CA, and online.

3. Violence Escalates: Timeline of Attacks

A. Vallejo, CA – Sword Attack on Curtis Lind

• November 2022: Curtis (80-year-old landlord) ambushed by tenants (Zizians) after an eviction dispute (21:12).
• Attackers: Suri Dow, Alexander Letham, and Emma (all group members).
• Weapons: Samurai sword, knife, chemicals (possibly to dissolve the body).
• Curtis miraculously survives, shoots and kills Emma in self-defense.
  • Curtis’s friend Patrick (25:47):

    “They jumped him and tried to chop him up and solve him in a tank of lye, was her intent…”

• Suri & Alexander arrested for attempted murder.

B. PA – Double Murder of Richard & Rita Zadjko

• New Year’s Eve 2022: Retired couple found shot in their home (29:56).
• Primary suspect: Their estranged daughter Michelle, a devoted Zizian.
• Evidence: Michelle’s ID at the scene, weapon/ammo match, but no direct tie.
• Michelle found later in Vermont with Daniel Blank and, shockingly, Ziz—alive.

C. Ziz’s Faked Death

• 2022: Ziz reportedly dies in a boating accident; declared legally dead (16:33).
• Reality: She faked her death to evade law enforcement and amp up her “off-the-grid” mystique (36:41).

D. Curtis Lind’s Murder

• January 17, 2025: Curtis, set to testify against his attackers, is stabbed to death in broad daylight (41:12).
• Weeks later, Max Snyder (another Zizian) is arrested for the murder, suspected of silencing a key witness (47:32).

E. Vermont Border Patrol Shooting

• January 20, 2025: Border agent Chris Milland is killed during a routine stop by Zizians Teresa Youngblood and Ophelia (formerly Felix Baukhold), both heavily armed (44:49).
• Teresa and Ophelia were missing persons, suited in tactical gear, under surveillance.
• Ophelia killed at the scene; Teresa arrested and linked to firearms purchased by Michelle.
• Authorities declare Michelle armed and dangerous.

4. Law Enforcement Response and Arrests

• Series of arrests: Teresa (border shooting), Max (Curtis’ murder), Alexander & Suri (sword attack), Ziz (firearms, obstruction, flight risk), Michelle (gun and false info charges), Daniel (weapons/trespassing).
• Major bust: February 16, 2025 – Ziz, Michelle, and Daniel caught camping, heavily armed, near Pennsylvania/West Virginia border (51:45).

5. Court Drama

• Pre-trial hearings for sword attack marked by outbursts (Alexander claiming transphobic torture; Suri suspected of identity changes/formerly Tessa Burns) (54:38).
• Teresa awaiting federal trial, potential death penalty.
• Max pleads not guilty, trial pending (56:52).
• Michelle remains a person of interest in parents’ murder, faces federal weapons charges.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Zizian Ideology

  • “Some of them believed that eating meat was essentially the same as committing mass murder…”
    — Annie Elise, 06:54
  • “If somebody crosses you, you don’t wait. You hit right back immediately, and you hit them harder than they ever hit you…”
    — Annie Elise on Timeless Decision Theory, 05:27

• On Cult Characteristics

  • “Anytime somebody refers to themselves or a group that they are a part of as ‘the chosen ones’… you are in a cult.”
    — Annie Elise, 07:53

• On the Sword Attack

  • “He called 911 multiple times begging for help... found his friend outside, stumbling, bleeding, completely disoriented and with this freaking sword sticking out of his body.”
    — Annie Elise, 25:04

• Friend on Curtis

  • “They were a murderous group of people who didn’t want to get evicted. Just full stop. He happened to end up with a bad batch of tenants who made him suffer the ultimate price.”
    — Friend of Curtis, 58:25

• Reflecting on Ideology and Danger

  • “This case is just a really scary reminder of how far ideology can go when it’s like unregulated and unchecked…”
    — Annie Elise, 59:55

Important Timeline & Timestamps

| Event | Description | Timestamp | |-------|-------------|-----------| | Podcast kicks off | Annie previews the wild Zizian case | 02:28 | | Zizian group emerges from esoteric internet philosophy | Annie on online origins | 03:24 - 04:38 | | Ziz’s background, blog, and fanfiction | | 04:46 - 05:38 | | Zizian beliefs (veganism, logic, AI fears, “chosen ones”) | | 06:40 - 08:42 | | Arrest at 2019 protest, escalation to violence | | 10:49 - 12:33 | | Fake death of Ziz in SF Bay | | 16:33 | | Vallejo sword attack on Curtis | | 21:12 | | Retired couple Richard & Rita murdered in PA | | 28:51 | | Ziz found alive in Vermont hotel with Daniel, Michelle | | 33:43 | | Curtis murdered before testifying | | 41:12 | | Vermont border officer shooting | | 44:49 | | Max Snyder’s arrest | | 47:32 | | Ziz, Daniel & Michelle arrested in PA/WV | | 51:45 | | Courtroom outbursts; Suri’s identity questions | | 54:38 | | Recap of victims & suspects | | 51:09 | | Reflection on the case’s disturbing, senseless violence | | 59:55 |

Conclusion and Reflections

Annie closes by emphasizing the remarkable descent—from online philosophy banter to murderous violence—that played out in this group. The Zizians, mostly educated young adults, lost their grip on reality, replaced personal agency with group delusion, and ended lives over warped ideology rather than any typical criminal motive. Several trials are still pending, and key questions linger—especially about the true reach of Zizian influence and whether similar groups are quietly growing online.

Final thoughts (Annie Elise, 59:55):

“This case is just a really scary reminder of how far ideology can go when it’s like unregulated and unchecked… These people did not start out as hardened criminals. They were educated, smart, had their whole lives ahead of them. They just lost touch with reality.”

For New Listeners:

This episode gives a thorough, compelling look at the Zizian case—perfect for anyone fascinated by the borderlines of true crime, internet radicalization, and the power of unchecked ideas. Annie’s conversational, friend-to-friend style mixes detail, empathy, and shock for a dramatic, unforgettable listen.