← Serialously with Annie Elise
Serialously with Annie Elise
357: Spencer & Monique Tepe | The Truth About Her Ex & The Full Story
01:06:48
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host - Sponsor Segment
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- [01:00]
911 Caller / Witness
There's a body. There's a body.
- [01:02]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
A husband and wife were found shot.
- [01:04]
911 Caller / Witness
Dead inside their home the day before New Year's Eve. He appears dead.
- [01:10]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Spencer and Monique Tepe. Their family and friends were heartbroken, shocked, and saddened. Columbus police released surveillance video of a shadowy figure walking down the street around the time of the murders. There was just one person that family and friends suspected of the chilling crime. Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hello. Hello, Hello. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Lessly, your favorite true crime podcast with your favorite true crime bff, me, Annie Elise. If that wasn't obvious. It's me. It's me. It's me. God. I am not Cynthia Arivo. No. So welcome back a happy Monday. I hope you are having a fantastic start to your week. Hopefully you had a nice weekend as well. Whether you are listening to this in your car, whether you are cleaning, maybe you're on a walk, maybe you're watching this between meetings at your office. And look, I ain't mad at it. I know a lot of you guys listen together at work and you're like work besties and I'm here for it. So I remember when I used to work in my office job. I'm gonna just like put myself on blast right now. I was like so obsessed with Sons of Anarchy and I hadn't ever watched it in real time. I watched it once. It was on Netflix. And I remember I'd like have my tablet secretly hidden by my computer monitor and I would be like watching Sons of Anarchy. And then if somebody came in my office with a question, I would just like pause it. So maybe some of you guys are doing that, I don't know. But I. I'm with you. That's why we're besties.
- [02:56]
Co-host / Commentator
I feel you.
- [02:57]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
I get with you. I get with you. I get you. So today's case. Okay, this is one, we talked about it a little bit on headline highlights. I told you that the deep dive was coming and here we are. Because this is one of those cases where everybody's trying to make sense of it, but the details are still coming in every single day. It feels like we are learning something new. So as I said, I briefly mentioned it in headline highlights, but then my DMs were flooded with like, please do the deep dive. We want to know more. What else can you find out? So obviously here we are. And once we gathered all of the information that we have been able to source, I knew that I needed to sit down, get on the mic and lay everything out as clearly as we possibly can with everything that we know right now. And what's wild is truly how normal. All of this starts on the morning of December 30, 2025, just before 9:00am, 8:58am to be exact. A 911 call comes in. Nothing dramatic, no screaming, no panic, just a co worker asking for something that sounds very routine and pretty calm. A wellness check. They're calling because somebody didn't show up to work that day and that someone was 37 year old Spencer Tepe. Now at that moment, no one on that call had any clue what the police were about to walk into.
- [04:23]
911 Operator
Columbus Police Tech 107.
- [04:25]
911 Caller / Witness
Yes, I would like to ask for a wellness check on an individual at their home. This individual, Spencer, works with me and he did not show up to work this morning and we cannot get ahold of him or his family.
- [04:41]
911 Operator
He didn't show up to work?
- [04:44]
911 Caller / Witness
Correct.
- [04:46]
911 Operator
Okay, so do you have medical problems or.
- [04:51]
911 Caller / Witness
No. And he's been reliable and we cannot get in touch with him, his wife, his family, anybody that lives in that house.
- [05:01]
911 Operator
Okay.
- [05:04]
911 Caller / Witness
There'S two kids in the home. I'm in Florida. I own the business. I was informed by my employees that he was not at work and he loves the office. Have you guys received anything else like calls about him or like a car accident or anything like that?
- [05:25]
911 Operator
Sometimes people just don't show up to Work. I mean, maybe he's sick. I don't know.
- [05:29]
911 Caller / Witness
I just know that he is the most like, he is always on time and he would contact us if there was any issues whatsoever. And he, I just don't know how else to say this, like we're very, very concerned because this is very out of character and we can't get in touch with his wife, which is probably the more concerning thing.
- [05:47]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
So here's who Spencer was and also why this immediately raised red flags. Spencer was a dentist at Athens Dental Depot in the small college town of Athens, Ohio. This is about 75 miles, give or take from Columbus and that's where he lived with his 39 year old wife, Monique. And this town wasn't just where he worked. It was their life, their routine, their normal. And that's the thing. Spencer wasn't just an employee who didn't show up for work that day. He was someone who was almost obsessively reliable. Not only was he one of the dentists at the practice, but he also helped run it. So this wasn't a guy who slept through alarms or casually blew off responsibilities. This was a guy who was very dependable. So when the office realized that Spencer not only had not come in for work that day, but gave no heads up, no text, no call, it wasn't just inconvenient, it was alarming. Something didn't sit right. It was very unsettling. It was kind of like, this is not quite right. It was that like gut feeling that makes people just stop what they're doing and start to actually worry a little bit. Now maybe you're thinking what the 911 operator seemed to be thinking. And honestly, that call is a whole separate side rant that I truly could go on. But, but people do miss work sometimes. We know that, right? Life happens, emergencies happen. So on its own, that doesn't automatically mean something terrible, not at all. But when somebody who knows you very well, whether it's a coworker, a friend, a family member, when somebody who knows you says, this feels off, this doesn't feel like them, they're usually picking up on a gut feeling that is rooted in something real. So that instinct is what led the police to the house. By 9.16am, an officer arrived at Spencer and Monique's address. And at that point, the assumption was pretty simple. Maybe one of them would come to the door, they would explain what happened, everybody could breathe again, and it was all just one big misunderstanding. Body cam footage shows this officer walking up, knocking on the front door and Then just waiting there, he knocks again and again and again, but nobody answers. And that was the moment where this stopped feeling. I don't want to say routine, but kind of it stopped feeling routine. And also it's that moment stopped feeling like, oh, we're overreacting, and we're going to understand that this was all a misunderstanding soon. Because as nobody was answering the door, that feeling started to sit in the pits of their stomach of, okay, no, our fear is legitimate. There is something weird going on here. Something feels wrong. So even after knocking multiple times, nobody comes to the door. The officer doesn't just knock and leave either. He goes through the side gate, he checks the backyard, he knocks on the back door, but. But still nothing. No movement, no voices, nobody stepping outside to say that everything's fine. And then the officer leaves. Now, I don't know whether officers circled back to the coworker who originally called 911 to give them an update at that point or what happened, but what we do know is that the concern definitely didn't stop there, because it couldn't. Too many people felt like something wasn't right here. So sometime between that first 911 call, that was just before 9am and 10am A close friend of Spencer and Monique's decided to walk over to the house themselves, not out of curiosity, but out of genuine worry. The kind of worry where you just can't sit still anymore, where you want to have eyes on the situation yourself. So then right around 10am another call comes in to 911, and this time, the situation is very different.
- [10:14]
911 Operator
Okay, what's the emergency there? Police or medical?
- [10:18]
911 Caller / Witness
Maybe both, I guess. I don't know. I'm kind of doing the wellness.
- [10:21]
911 Operator
They had a call out there. They knocked on the front door and back door multiple times and there was no answer.
- [10:26]
911 Caller / Witness
Yeah, no answer. I can hear kids inside, and I swear I think I heard one yell, but we can't get in. At this point, I don't know if I need to break the door in or just get in the house or what.
- [10:37]
911 Operator
Were you out there when the police was out there?
- [10:40]
911 Caller / Witness
I wasn't. I just got here about five minutes. Yeah.
- [10:42]
911 Operator
Okay. All right, well, we'll send them back.
- [10:44]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Out to you now. This is where things get pretty frustrating. Okay. And honestly, the best way that I can describe the 911 operator here, in my opinion, is a bit condescending. It's kind of the tone that basically says, like, well, yeah, officers already knocked on the door, so there's no reason for anybody to be panicking or anybody to be calling again. We've got it. It's handled. Almost like the fact that nobody answered the door somehow meant that everything was automatically fine. Regardless. They do say that they will send more officers back out to the family's home, but I don't know. The call just didn't really sit very well with me. And then Almost immediately, another 911 call comes in, this time from a completely different person. Someone who also works with Spencer at the dental office. Someone else who knows him well enough to know that this is not normal. And trust me, if you're not already annoyed listening to how these calls are being handled, this next one is probably going to push you over the edge.
- [11:41]
911 Operator
Our. Our boss did not report to work. We haven't been able to get a hold of him for three hours. We are on site and we can hear. Okay, I talked to somebody there. Okay, I'm just making sure somebody called.
- [11:51]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Now here is the part to me that really matters here. The woman calling tells the operator that she is on site. She's physically at Spencer and Monique's house, which that alone adds so much credibility to the concern. Right? This isn't somebody who's calling from their couch, somebody who's speculating, somebody who isn't sure what's really going on. This is someone who was worried enough to actually physically show up at their home and now call in for concern. And sure, look, like I said, some people just don't show up to work. It happens. Some people are unreliable, but that's not who Spencer was. And context really matters here. Now, for anybody not familiar with the area, Athens and Columbus are about an hour apart, give or take, depending on traffic, which I don't know that many people who are going to carve an hour out of their day to drive over to a co worker's house and then stand outside and call 911 unless they are genuinely concerned and truly believe that something is very wrong. So that alone, in my opinion, should have been enough for the operator to just kind of like drop whatever dismissiveness or attitude they had. But when you also combine that with multiple people calling in, all saying the exact same thing, that this behavior is completely out of character, it really does paint a clearer picture. This wasn't an overreaction. This was instinct. And then just five minutes later, another 911 call came in. So at this point, the concern isn't just like idle, it is escalating.
- [13:23]
911 Operator
911, what's the location of your emergency? 1411 North Forth. Okay, 1411 North Fourth. We've got several calls on that. What's changed since the last person I talked to?
- [13:35]
911 Caller / Witness
There's a body. There's a body.
- [13:36]
911 Operator
There's a body inside.
- [13:38]
911 Caller / Witness
Yeah.
- [13:40]
911 Operator
Okay, hold on one second. Let me get you on the line with the medic. Okay, stay on the line.
- [13:52]
911 Caller / Witness
There's a body. Our friend wasn't answering his phone. We just did a wellness ship. We just came here, and he appears dead. There's blood. He's laying next to his bed, off of his bed, in his blood. I can't get closer to see more than that. Okay, you can tell he's obviously not breathing or anything. Yeah, yeah. Is it like, kind of like. Like cuddle? Like, you know, does he look like. It doesn't look. I can't look. Okay, all right, I understand. Okay, and then when was the last time somebody spoke to him? Like. Yes, yesterday, I suppose yesterday. Okay. How old is he? 37. 37. Do you like a drug user or anything like that? No, no, no, no. Okay. All right. Just. That's a really young age. Yes, I understand. Okay. All right, we're on our way.
- [14:46]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
So after that last call, there are a few different things that we need to unpack. And honestly, this is kind of where it gets really difficult to listen to, because first, once again, the operator has that same tone, the kind that makes it sound like, why are you calling again? We already did a wellness check. We've already gotten multiple calls like, what's going on? But here's the problem with that, because, yes, technically, the officers did go out. They knocked on the doors, they tried to make contact. We saw that in the body cam footage. So on paper, it looks like the welfare check was done, except it wasn't. Because the house that they went to, it wasn't even Spencer and Monique's home. Not even close. The officers went to the wrong address entirely. So whoever actually lived there was likely at work or out of the house, which is why nobody answered the door. It wasn't going to their actual family home. And realizing that nothing was wrong. So, I mean, in this moment, so far as the police were concerned, they believed that they had checked on Spencer and Monique. But in reality, there was no welfare.
- [15:49]
Co-host / Commentator
Check at the correct address.
- [15:51]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
None. And that detail, it wouldn't come out until days later, after the department had enough time to do damage control and issue explanations. I mean, the whole nine yards. So at the time that these calls were coming in, everybody was operating under a false sense of reassurance. So, yeah, there was a welfare check, but Also, there very clearly wasn't. And that distinction, it changes everything.
- [16:15]
Police Spokesperson
We did receive a call for a wellness check. I think it was around 9:03am and we did have an officer that responded to that wellness check initially. That officer, unfortunately, went to the wrong location initially as it related to that wellness check. It was not the right house. He spent about 10 minutes doing what he thought was appropriate. Had it been the right house, knocking on the door, going around to the backyard, doing all the things that you would do in an effort to try to reach out to the family or to anyone that may have been in that home. It was not the right location. We later received another call saying, hey, this is. We need someone out here. And so we did respond back to that location about 40 minutes later, where.
- [17:02]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
The location where the call came from.
- [17:03]
Police Spokesperson
Where the actual call came from.
- [17:05]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Now this next part is where it stops being frustrating and actually starts being genuinely heartbreaking. On the last 911 call, if you listen very closely, you can hear a child in the background. And that detail matters a lot. Spencer and Monique had two kids together. One was four years old and the other only one year old. And this wasn't some unknown detail either. Dispatch had been told about the children from the very first call. So knowing all of that, the wrong address, the lack of urgency, the, you know, dismissiveness or attitude, if you want to call it that, that was on the phone, knowing all of that together, it just hits so much harder because this wasn't just about two adults who were not answering their door. Their kids were involved. Their kids were at this house. Now, before we move on, there's one more thing that I want to clear up because this caused a ton of confusion online, which, honestly, I understand why. But it had to do with the friend who made that call and what he actually saw in the 911 audio. He never explicitly says, I'm inside the house. He says that he saw a body, which that distinction matters. And early reporting was a little bit muddy on that. But on January 7, CNN had reported two key points. One, that the bodies were located in an upstairs bedroom, and two, that the friend did not specify whether he was inside or outside the home when he saw them. Then a few days later, on January 10th, CNN updated their reporting, saying that the friend, quote, peered inside and saw a gruesome scene next to a bed. So based on that most recent information, it appears that the friend was not actually inside the house, but instead had looked through a window. Now, I'll be honest, I don't fully understand how all of that works. If the bedroom was upstairs, I mean, maybe he climbed onto something, maybe there was some kind of vantage point. I'm not really sure. But I'm not even going to pretend that I know exactly how that part played out, because I don't. But I did want to flag it because it is one of the biggest questions that I have seen people asking, was he inside the home? If he wasn't, how did he see things like that? So hopefully, as more time passes, we will get a detailed police report that clears up that detail. But what we do know for sure is that once first responders finally arrived and entered the home, the reality was just as horrific as this friend had described, if not worse. Spencer had been shot multiple times. Monique had been shot at least once in the chest. Now, when this first hit the headlines and all of those details came out, a lot of people immediately jumped to the same conclusion, that this must have been a murder suicide. And honestly, without any other context, I totally understand why. Because on the surface, it does seem like the most straightforward explanation. Two kids unharmed, still alive, gunshot wounds multiple times, and then one to the chest, like it makes sense. However, the investigators shut that down very quickly. They said that this absolutely was not a murder suicide. And the reason for that is it came down to one very critical detail, and that was that there was absolutely no murder weapon at the scene. So if this had been Monique killing Spencer and then taking her own life, that gun would have been right there. It would have been nearby, next to the bodies. But it wasn't. There was no firearm anywhere in the house, as a matter of fact. So that single fact, it changed the entire direction of this case. Okay, can we talk about weeknight dinner just for a second here? Because nobody really warns you that this is the thing that never goes away. Every single day around 5pm it's like, okay, what are we eating tonight? And honestly, that mental load alone is exhausting. Which that's why I love hellofresh. 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And that's why David has been such a staple for not only me, but for Jeremiah during his like, runs and his working out and all of the things. Because we will reach for David when we need something quick but actually filling, like after a workout, between recordings, or when we realize that we've barely eaten and we need protein. Like right now, their gold bars have 28 grams of protein, they're only 150 calories, and they have zero sugar, which is honestly kind of wild. Most bars can't even come close to that without tasting just completely garbage terrible. And somehow these actually taste good. They have this, like, doughy, satisfying texture with these little crispy bits that make them feel like a treat, not, you know, a chore. And my favorites are the chocolate chip cookie dough and the fudge brownie. But honestly, I haven't even had a single bad one yet. What I really love is that they keep me full and they help me hit my protein goals without feeling heavy or gross afterward. It's one of those products where I genuinely think, like, I use this. I feel like everybody should know about this. Everybody should use it. So don't just take my word for it, go try them yourself. David is offering listeners a special deal, too. Buy four cartons and get the fifth free. When you go to davidprotein.com ae that's davidprotein.com ae and if you would rather shop in person, David is now available nationwide at Walmart. So just check out the store locator on Walmart.com to find one near you. So pretty much immediately, the investigators classified their two deaths as a double homicide. And the second that that happened, I mean, the Internet, it went into full overdrive. Internet sleuths were everywhere trying to piece every little detail together. And honestly, I get it, I understand it. There were so many details in this case that did not line up in any sort of way that felt logical at all. Every single answer, too, as it was coming out, seemed to create five more questions. So with that, I want to talk through some of the theories that not only started popping up at the beginning, but have kind of continued as this case has developed. One of the first questions that people were asking was, was this a break in or a burglary gone wrong? And, I mean, just looking at the outside of their home, it's clear that they lived a very comfortable life. Beautiful home, great neighborhood, It's a nice house. So I understand where that question came from. Right. Even if we were to assume that this was some random person off the street, the place does look like it could be worth targeting. And then on the flip side, if this was someone who actually knew the family, they would have known that Spencer was a dentist, somebody who likely wasn't struggling financially. However, that theory falls apart pretty quickly because there were no signs of forced entry, no broken doors, no smashed windows. And just as important, nothing was taken from inside the home. There were no valuables missing, no ransacked rooms. And those are two things that you almost always always see in any single burglary or robbery. Whether it's a random burglary or not, you always see some element of disheveledness, somebody who has been rifling through trying to find something or items missing. So then people started asking a much scarier question after a vat seemingly was ruled out. Was this targeted? Because who goes into a family's home, into their bedroom, shoots both of the adults and leaves without taking anything, and leaves the children unharmed and alive. But here's where it gets even more confusing, because by all accounts, Spencer and Monique were very well liked. We talked a lot about Spencer at the beginning of this episode because of his job and how this case even came to light. But Monique was also very deeply loved and known in her community. She had a background in childhood education, and at the time of her death, she was a stay at home mom to their two young kids. Friends described her as bubbly, warm, someone who loved to bake. Just one of those people who everybody loved and got along with. Just a good person. No enemies, no hostility in her life. And everybody who was close to the couple as well spoke incredibly highly of their relationship. No turmoil, no possible divorce on the horizon, nothing like that. The two of them met online and they ended up getting married in a very small, intimate ceremony where only close friends and family members attended. They got married on December 13, 2020. So that means that they had just celebrated their fifth wedding anniversary before they were killed. Friends and family say that they built a life together that was rooted in love, that they created a home filled with warmth, happiness, connection. So nothing about them screamed enemies, secrets or vendettas, like they were just a traditional, happy, normal, loving family. So for days, I mean, there was nothing, complete silence from the investigators. They didn't have any leads. They didn't know who could have had any sort of motive in any of this. Nothing was adding up. And that kind of silence is always a little bit unsettling because it usually means one of two things. Either they have absolutely nothing to go on, or they're working nonstop, and they do have a lot to go on, and they don't want to tip somebody off. But then on January 5th, we finally got the first real update. On January 5th, investigators released an image from surveillance footage that showed a person walking through an alley near the family's home. And this was during the very early morning hours of December 30th. And that image, it changed everything. Now, to be clear, that surveillance image wasn't some crystal clear shot that was going to, you know, crack the case wide open. The person was wearing light colored pants, a dark hoodie that was pulled up over their head. And it was difficult because you're not getting a face, you're not getting any identifying features. Yes, you're getting an image of the someone, but nothing that is going to, like, crack everything wide open. But what this image did show and what it did indicate to the public is that the investigators were actively working this case. And more importantly, they were asking for the public's help. Whether that help meant identifying this person who was seen in this footage or turning over any security footage of their own from ring cameras, you know, house cameras, whatever it was, I mean, it was a signal in the case that they were trying to build a timeline, but that was basically it. That was the only detail they really gave. There was no extra commentary, there were no added details. But that also tracked. It made sense. Then in the days after that footage was released, more information started coming out. But instead of clarifying things, it actually made the case way more confusing. The first BombShell was another 911 call, which I know that there are a lot of 911 calls in this case, but this one is different because this call was not from the day that Spencer and Monique were found. This call was from months earlier, on April 15, 2025. Someone had called 911 but then hung up before the operator could even answer. So no information was given, no name, no explanation. So the dispatch did what they're supposed to do. They called this number back, wondering if maybe this person is in despair, if they need help, what's going on? But that return phone call, that's the audio that has the public completely split, confused and speculating all over the Internet. Because once you hear the audio, it raises a whole new set of questions. Take a listen.
- [30:43]
911 Operator
Hello?
- [30:45]
911 Caller / Witness
Hi, this is 91 1. We just got a hang up call. Is everything okay?
- [30:51]
911 Operator
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm okay.
- [30:54]
911 Caller / Witness
Are you sure?
- [30:55]
911 Operator
Yeah, yeah, I'm okay. Sorry.
- [30:58]
911 Caller / Witness
Okay. Well, it sounds like you're crying. Do you need police, paramedics or anything?
- [31:01]
911 Operator
No, no, no, I'm okay. I probably. I'm just emotional.
- [31:09]
911 Caller / Witness
Can I ask why had you called 911 in the first place? Like, were you having an argument with somebody?
- [31:16]
911 Operator
Got into it. But I'm okay, I promise.
- [31:19]
911 Caller / Witness
Did anything ever get physical? No. You guys were just arguing? Nobody hit each other?
- [31:31]
911 Operator
Yes.
- [31:32]
911 Caller / Witness
Okay. All right, ma', am. Well, I have the information here. I can go ahead and tell the officers to cancel. Heading over to your address there. If anything changes, call us back.
- [31:45]
911 Operator
Okay.
- [31:46]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
So when this April 15th call gets released, people immediately hone in on the woman's voice. She never identifies herself, she never actually gives an address. But the call is traced back to Spencer and Monique's home. And almost instantly, people who were close with the couple started saying the exact same thing. That's not Monique's voice. It doesn't sound like her. It's not her tone, it's not her cadence. It's not the way she spoke. Nothing about it matched then. That suspicion only grew when Spencer's brother in law went on the podcast Surviving the Survivor. He went on and he shared what he knew. And he was very clear about one thing. This woman on that call was 100% not Monique. He also initially said that the call came from the Tepe home during a house party that they were hosting at the time. But after the episode went live, he kind of walked that back a little bit, explaining that the party that he was thinking of had actually happened years earlier, that he had accidentally mixed up the dates. So law enforcement never confirmed that a house party happened in April of 2025 either. They didn't say when, if ever, something like that had occurred. But what they did confirm publicly was that the woman on the call was not Monique. So breaking that down, there's also the possibility that the call came in from a nearby neighbor and that it simply just pinged onto the Tepe family home, because that does happen. However, that detail, I want to be clear, has also never been confirmed. So after that, the police kind of just stopped talking about it altogether. And that was really the first thing that sent the Internet completely on fire. But then, just as people were trying to make sense of that and trying to figure everything out, more breaking information came out. Apparently, just days before Spencer and Monique were murdered, another 911 call had been made, this time by a woman who lived on the same street, and she reported that a strange man was banging on her front door. So now this detail, I mean, this changed everything. Suddenly, the timing in all of this, I mean, it felt impossible to ignore.
- [33:52]
911 Operator
That's the emergency. I'm always knocking on my door. Okay, Someone's saying in a knock in. Do you know who this is? No. Do you have a description of them? No, I can't see anything. Have you told them? Have you asked them what they want or if they need something?
- [34:19]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Now, the investigators never actually came out and said whether or not that neighbor's incident was connected. But that, of course, definitely did not stop people from running with it, because, honestly, I mean, the timing, it was eerie. It feels weird, right? Someone banging on a neighbor's door just days before two people on the exact same street are murdered. I mean, that's not nothing. And the timing just lines up in a way that is really difficult to ignore because that neighbor's 911 call, it came in at 2:31am and investigators believe that Spencer and Monique were killed sometime between 2 and 5am So, I mean, yeah, a lot of coincidences. But once again, the investigators stayed completely silent. Now, I wanted to understand more about whether this really was as massive of a coincidence as it felt, or if crime did happen in the neighborhood and if this was kind of, you know, run of the mill weirdness and sketchiness happening. So I started looking into the area itself, which, to be clear, this isn't saying Columbus is some dangerous place. It certainly isn't. But like any larger city, it does have its moments. And one source described the Tepes specific neighborhood as generally peaceful in recent months. But they noted that it, quote, has had bad times with drug related violence in the past. Another neighbor said something interesting too. He specifically mentioned that he did not hear any gunshots between 2 and 5am the night that Spencer and Monique were killed. Which that actually surprised him because he said that when he first moved there back in 2014, nighttime gunshots were fairly common. So he said that he felt like he would have recognized that sound, he would have heard it, or at least noticed something. So all of that to say, I mean, someone banging on a door in the middle of the night just days earlier, before two people are gunned down in their home, it didn't seem completely out of left field in the area. Could it be a coincidence? Yes. Could it not? Yes. There's really no way to know. It's kind of a gray area. And still though, in a case like this, you can't ignore anything. You have to look at all of the details, all of the facts. So the Internet stayed exactly where it had been since day one, kind of split right down the middle. Was this personal? Was it random? Was this all a big coincidence? What is going on here? But then everything changed, because on January 10, 2026, the biggest update to date in this case dropped an arrest had been made. When it comes to home security, I don't just want a system that tells me that something bad has already happened. I want one that actually helps stop things before they start. 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And that feeling of being protected is honestly huge. Other systems might just send you a notification and, you know, hope that you see it in time, but SimpliSafe actually has your back. They're trusted by over 5 million Americans and they have also been named best home security system by U.S. news World Report five years in a row and right now you can get 50% off any new system, but this month only. So go to simplisafe.com seriously, that's simply safe.com seriously. There is no safe like simply safe. Lately I have been really intentional about what I use when it comes to immune support because tis the season, right? Especially during cold and flu season when germs are like everywhere and my kids are like duct tape with germs. And I'm trying to stay ahead of it, not play catch up. And that's why I started trying Beekeepers Naturals. I personally love that their products are great, clean, non toxic and actually effective. There's no weird ingredients, no junk, just things that work with your body instead of against it. Their Propolis throat spray has also become a daily thing for me. I use it proactively, especially when I feel that like tiny little scratchy throat coming on. And it's actually the ingredient that bees use to protect their hive from germs. And for us it helps support the immune system and fight germs on the spot. I also keep the throat soother on hand because it's amazing for instant relief when your throat feels dry or irritated. And it has like this cooling effect that honestly works so fast, which is so good for me when I'm doing a ton of recording because you know, it's tough on the vocals. So I really like that these are things that I can reach for right away and also feel good about using consistently, especially for my family. So if you're looking to swap out traditional over the counter products for cleaner, non toxic options that actually support your immune system, now is a great time to try them. Today, Beekeepers Naturals is giving my listeners 20% off. Just go to beekeepersnaturals.com serial or use code seriously at checkout. That's beekeepersnaturals.com Serial lessly or code Cereal Lessly. You can also find Beekeepers Naturals at Target, Whole Foods, Walmart, Amazon, CVS and Walgreens. Police arrested 39 year old Chicago resident Michael McKee. And they charged him with two counts of murder in the shooting deaths of Spencer and Monique. Those charges have since been upgraded to aggravated murder. Now, investigators say that they were able to identify him by tracking a vehicle that entered the Tepes neighborhood during the time frame of the murders. That vehicle ultimately led them straight to Michael. And at first, his name really did not mean much to the public, not at all. But to the people who knew Spencer and Monique, they knew the name, they recognized it. And this name meant everything because Michael McKee was Monique's ex husband, which this felt like a major mic drop in the, in the moment. I mean, okay, finally there's a connection. There's an arrest. Is there a motive? What's going on here? Will we finally get to the bottom of what happened? And it was very shocking, yes. But at the same time, in a weird, roundabout way, kind of predictable, if that makes sense, because he was connected to the couple. Now, since his arrest, and keep in mind as I'm recording this, this all just happened days ago. But since his arrest, people have been digging into Michael and Monique's past non stop. Now, what they haven't been able to find is a clear, concrete motive. But with that, we started digging into their history. And I want to walk you through it. Because they divorced nearly a decade ago. So for somebody to be harboring that much hatred or resentment or, you know, whatever was fueling this, that's a long time, unless something did just happen recently. But like I said, they've been divorced for nearly a decade. So this isn't somebody who was love struck and then devastated and distraught and hates that she's moving on and decided to kill her and her new husband on a whim. They've been divorced for almost a decade. She's been remarried for half a decade, and yet there's still this weird connection. So we started digging into their history and their past and I want to break down what we have discovered. Now, despite living in Chicago at this point, Michael actually has roots in Ohio. He graduated from Ohio State University just like Spencer and Monique. He had absolutely no criminal history and he was a licensed surgeon in Illinois and in California. He had also previously been licensed in Nevada as well. So Michael and Monique first got married in August of 2015. But then just seven months later, in March of 2016, they separated. And I say separated very intentionally because while it appears that their relationship did end in 2016, 2016, the official divorce paperwork didn't begin until May of 2017. Now, they didn't have any children together. So there wasn't this long drawn out divorce or custody battle that was going to tie them together for years. And one source even described their divorce as pretty amicable. But based on what we now know and what we're seeing in this case, I don't know if that's the word that I would use to describe it. Court documents note that there was a standard mutual temporary restraining order. This required both parties to refrain from, quote, harassing, interfering with, assaulting, or doing bodily harm to the other spouse. So to me, that doesn't exactly scream smooth, peaceful amicable. That seems like there was definitely some friction there, some, you know, a little bit of toxic stuff going on. And that raises even more questions about what was really going on beneath the surface in their marriage. Right. They were only married for a very short window of time. They separated after seven months of being married and then divorced, what, two years after being married, so. Or officially. So what's really going on here? And here's another thing that stood out to me during all of this research. From what I can gather, restraining orders aren't just handed out like candy. I mean, and we have covered enough cases where people have begged, documented, reported, and still could not get a restraining order. Right. We are all too familiar with that. So the fact that there was this mutual restraining order that had been put in place, it tells me at least that there had to be clear, concrete reasons for it. Enough evidence that the court felt it was necessary for both parties to have this. And that alone says a lot. Then there were also the financial details that were buried in the divorce documents. And these details are pretty interesting. Michael listed Monique's engagement ring and wedding ring as separate property, noting that the engagement ring was valued at $2,500 and the wedding ring was valued at 3, $500. He also claimed that Monique owed him a little under $1300 in what he classified as, quote, miscellaneous debts. There was also a clause stating that if she did not pay that amount by July 1, 2018, the balance would then accrue a 23% interest, which kind of feels intense to me. And look, money is money and money is important, but it feels a little aggressive and overkill over twelve hundred dollars or thirteen hundred dollars, I should say, to then accrue a 23% interest. And I don't know, feels a little petty to me, but what do I know? So after that it looks like they finalized the divorce. Then from there they moved to different states, and at least on paper, they went their separate ways. Clearly, Monique moved on with her life too. She got married to Spencer in 2020, a few years after the divorce. So that brings us to the biggest question that everybody's asking right now, which why now? And trust me, I'm asking that right alongside you, why now? If they were only together, married for seven months, technically on paper, call it married for, you know, just shy of two years until the divorce was settled. But then three years go by post divorce, Monique gets married again. Six more years almost go by from then. And then Michael decides to enact revenge or target her nearly 10 years after the divorce was finalized. I mean, why now? And not that this would ever be excusable, obviously it wouldn't be, but it would make a lot more sense if the divorce had been recent and if he was, you know, stewing on this and upset and this was revenge like, and maybe even if they were still tangled up in some legal battles or something like that. But like I said, this breakup happened almost a decade ago. So why now? Why would a successful surgeon who is living in a completely different state come all the way back to Ohio to allegedly murder his ex wife and her now husband, her husband who she's been married to for five years. Because let's be real, five years into a marriage, it isn't exactly new, right?
- [47:35]
Co-host / Commentator
But you know what, Actually what I will say is this. There has been some newer information that has been released over the last couple of days regarding things in Michael's personal life as well as things in he and Monique's relationship. Now before I get into the relationship of it all, let's first go over some of the things that were apparently happening in his personal life because it seems like in the months leading up to these murders, Michael was well on.
- [48:01]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
His way to hitting rock bottom.
- [48:03]
Co-host / Commentator
On September 29, 2025, a complaint was filed against Michael by a man alleging that Michael had been involved in malpractice. Now this complaint states, quote, failure of Michael David McKee, MD to properly train or supervise his co worker and it caused the catheter or device to shear or fracture, leaving an 8.6 inch portion of the device in the plaintiff's body, which. That is horrific. And just a little bit of a personal story here. Years and years ago, my grandfather underwent surgery and I believe they were doing something with his spleen, I can't remember entirely. And there was like a 10 inch instrument left inside of him when he was sewed back up. So like this, she does happen. So this complaint, as I said, was filed on September 29 but apparently the guy's attorney spent over a month trying to actually track Michael down so that he could serve him these papers. And Michael was just kind of, you know, evasive. He was nowhere to be found. Apparently this attorney even spoke with one of Michael's co workers explaining the situation. And the coworker said he had no idea idea where Michael was and also had no idea how to get in contact with him, saying, look, I don't.
- [49:23]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Know where he is.
- [49:24]
Co-host / Commentator
He just disappeared. That's the direct quote. Now, based on what we know so far, it almost seems to me like this reason for disappearing was because he knew that he was going to get hit with this malpractice claim or suit. Because after leaving Vegas, he quickly got a job at OS USF St. Anthony Medical center in Chicago, which as we know, that is the state that he was ultimately found and arrested in. So Michael was eventually served those papers on January 6th. So just really days before his actual arrest, yet he had still somehow managed to find another job. I mean, so I guess his life really wasn't in that much of a downward spiral if he was successfully evading everybody and got a new job. But I do feel like this was still definitely worth noting because that kind of stress on somebody could definitely make them feel backed into a corner.
- [50:20]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Now, as for he and mo' Nique's.
- [50:23]
Co-host / Commentator
Personal relationship, well, it seems that it was far from perfect.
- [50:29]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Specifically after Michael's arrest, an anonymous relative of the couple gave an interview and what they shared it was pretty telling. In this interview, the relative of the couple shared, and I want to say this in their exact words, they said it was absolutely not a shock to anybody. We had all expected it, but we weren't saying that because we didn't want to compromise the investigation. The relative went on to say that while the arrest itself wasn't a shock, they weren't aware of any specific recent issues between Monique, Spencer or Michael in the weeks leading up to their deaths. Everyone is talking about New Year's resolutions, but here's the one thing that I keep coming back to as a parent. My kids health. Our kids are growing up surrounded by ultra processed foods. And while I would love to say that I'm going to magically cook perfectly balanced meals every single day, I'm focused on changes that actually stick. And that's why I love Haya. It exists because so many kids vitamins on the market are basically candy, just loaded with sugar, artificial dyes and junk. And Haya took the opposite approach. Zero sugar, no gummy junk, just Clean, thoughtful nutrition that is designed around what kids are actually missing. My kids genuinely love them and I think part of it is the whole experience because when you get it, you get this like reusable bottle with the first order. So they had so much fun decorating it with the stickers, the colors, and now they actually remind me to grab their vitamins for them, which never used to happen, but Haya is made with pediatricians and nutrition scientists and it's packed with vitamins like D, B, 12, C, zinc, folate, all the stuff that supports immunity, energy, focus, mood and strong bones and teeth. And the ingredient list is super clean, non gmo, vegan, dairy free, allergy friendly, no artificial dyes, all third party tested. And that really matters to me. And here's something every parent needs to hear. If your kids are having like a daily battle with you to eat their vegetables. Haya's New Kids Daily Greens plus Superfoods is a total game changer because it's basically chocolate milk secretly packed with veggies. Just mix one scoop with milk or a non dairy drink and they actually enjoy it while they're getting over 55 whole food ingredients. And we worked out a special deal just for listeners. You can get 50 off your first order by going to hyahealth.com ae that's h I y dash a h e a l t h dot com ae it's one of those things that I love for my kids and I feel like if you're trying to make healthier choices, this is a great place to start. HIAhealth.com AE.
- [53:21]
Co-host / Commentator
Now, I mentioned the brother in law earlier who went on that podcast to talk about the murders and to give some clarification, wherever he could, this same person did an interview with NBC News. And even though he couldn't divulge a whole lot about the relationship, he did still share something that makes, I think, the world of difference when it comes to figuring out a motive Here.
- [53:43]
911 Caller / Witness
She was terrified because he had threatened her life on multiple occasions when they were married. She wasn't shy about talking to people about traumatic experiences that she had with her ex and just how emotionally abusive he was to her. It affected her. To this day, if any of us had known that these threats were actually grounded in possibility, we all would have acted differently.
- [54:12]
Co-host / Commentator
Now, of course, all of that information is coming from a family member. However, a lot of people have been pointing out that in Monique's vows at their wedding in 2020, she almost confirms that Michael wasn't the greatest to her, yet she doesn't say his name, of course, but kind of alludes to it.
- [54:29]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Spencer, what can I say? From day one, I knew you were something special. I had quite a journey to get to to you countless bad bumble dates, wrong relationships, and waterfalls of tears. But it was worth every cringing second because it led me to you. Throughout all of this, I knew that God was guiding me to my person and that when I met him, it would be the most magical thing ever.
- [55:00]
Co-host / Commentator
She says relationships, as in plural, but correct me if I'm wrong. It sounds like she said a wrong relationships, almost like she meant one specific one, but was trying to make it less obvious. And of course, this was their wedding. So Monique wasn't confirming any trauma she had been through in the past with Michael specifically. But I did want to mention it.
- [55:21]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Since a lot of people online are.
- [55:23]
Co-host / Commentator
Talking about it right now. And that's not the only information that we've been able to find out about their relationship. Another source has noted that after he and Monica divorced, Michael never dated, never remarried, never moved on. And I know that that might not sound like a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but to me, even this small detail, it does say a lot. Like, maybe he never fully got over Monique and that he thought of her as, you know, the one who got away. We've all been asking the question, why after 10 years did this happen? But maybe to him, that wound was still fresh, still deep, and still felt like it was just yesterday. Not to mention, Monique and Spencer had two young children. So maybe seeing her post these happy photos online and her having this family with Spencer, maybe realizing that it was something that she would never do with him. It was like this continuous trigger every time he saw a new post until eventually it just started to spill over the edge.
- [56:26]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
And right now, investigators have made it very clear that they are not releasing any additional information or details because they don't want to compromise the case, which I would imagine that friends and family have also all been advised to stay quiet as well.
- [56:40]
Co-host / Commentator
Now, as you can imagine, Facebook and Reddit groups have definitely been going crazy over this case. So I wanted to briefly touch on some of the things that I have been seeing online.
- [56:51]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
But as always, take this with a grain of salt.
- [56:54]
Co-host / Commentator
But a lot of the online sleuth community, they're bringing up the fact that Michael was allegedly adopted. Apparently people who knew him said that this was not a secret. It was something that pretty much everybody knew. However, it doesn't seem like he had the greatest relationship with his adoptive parents. One Facebook account even claims to have talked to someone anonymous that was quite close to Michael, who claimed that everyone who knew Michael's parents said that they were really good people, but that after he went to Ohio State, he just completely cut off contact with them.
- [57:27]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Now, nobody has come forward and said.
- [57:29]
Co-host / Commentator
Why he stopped talking with them if what's being said is believed to be true.
- [57:34]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
But it is interesting.
- [57:36]
Co-host / Commentator
And this person alleged that they weren't even invited to Monique and Michael's wedding. So it seemed like he continued that no contact, which, again, we don't know any of this for sure, but I do find it to be pretty interesting that we are seeing very little of Michael's family or friends coming out to defend him.
- [57:54]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
You know what I mean?
- [57:55]
Co-host / Commentator
It seems like maybe there was some sort of friction or severing of ties with that relationship. Maybe not, but who knows? I mean, I feel like in every case that we cover, even when it's the worst of the worst, there's usually always a handful of people who will come forward saying, you know, we never saw it coming. They never showed any signs they were a nice person or something along those lines. But so far it's been crickets from the people closest to him. And that really makes me wonder if there is some truth to that Facebook post after all. Now, shockingly, I've only seen one person actually come forward and even somewhat defend.
- [58:31]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Him at all so far, and that was. Was a neighbor. And neighbors coming forward in true crime.
- [58:36]
Co-host / Commentator
Cases are always a little bit interesting.
- [58:38]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
To me because how well do any.
- [58:40]
Co-host / Commentator
Of us truly know our neighbors? I mean, I don't, but take a listen.
- [58:45]
Interviewer
I just wanted to get your first reaction to hearing that this neighbor of yours who you spoken with and thought was delightful, has been arrested on two aggravated murders.
- [58:57]
Neighbor Interviewee
Yeah, it's. It's. It's really was a shock to building and everything because I met him really once. We really talked at the poolside. And that was during the summer, shortly after he moved in. And we talked at the pool and he was very friendly. We were all barbecuing at that time. And he did not seem like somebody that would be doing something like this. But like Ashley, like you point out, you don't know what is in a person's mind, what they're obsessing about and what they're going through in their mind and what causes them to react like this. But I would see him and we would pass each other. I saw him last week to going by and, you know, we would just say, hi, how are you? Hi, and that's it. We never really spoke after that. He was kind of a quiet person to himself. But, you know, it is shocking that a resident of this building was charged with such a terrible crime.
- [59:55]
Interviewer
And residents, I can't imagine.
- [59:59]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Can I ask you, how did you.
- [60:00]
Interviewer
All even find out? Like, how did the news sort of spread through the building?
- [60:06]
Neighbor Interviewee
Well, I found out because There was Channel 7 crew that was outside there of our building trying to talk to residents. And I walked up to them because I used to work at Channel 7 in Chicago. I was assignment editor. And I said, what's happening over here? What's going on? The doorman says, you wanted to talk with me? And they told me about what was happening. And when they said Michael McKee, I said, well, I don't know if I know him. Show me a picture. And then they showed me the picture, and I went, oh, my gosh, I know him.
- [60:37]
Co-host / Commentator
Now, all of that being said, I've seen some theories online that Michael left the children alive so that they would have to be adopted like he was. Was almost as if it would be the ultimate kind of, you know, gotcha moment to get back at Monique. Now, do I think that's possible? I mean, anything is possible. We have seen cases with the most random motives, and we've also seen cases with no motives at all other than just because. So it's really difficult to say. I mean, I would hope not.
- [61:08]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
I would hope that that wasn't his.
- [61:09]
Co-host / Commentator
Motive, but I would also hope that someone's ex husband wouldn't murder them a decade, decade after their divorce out of just potential jealousy and spite. I was also watching a News Nation video on this case, and they brought up a really valid question. That question was about whether or not the investigators were going to look into every potential connection between Michael and the couple to find a specific motive.
- [61:35]
Interviewer
I am curious about establishing motive because juries want it even though prosecutors aren't required to give it. So at this point, is it going to be essential for investigators to go through every single potential message that Mo Tepe or Spencer Tepe may have had with Dr. Michael McKee, just the online connection potentially between them?
- [61:58]
Legal Expert / Analyst
Absolutely. I think you're going to see a lot of development over the next couple weeks. This is only the beginning. Once we have an arrest warrant, law enforcement will go in there and they'll do a what we call a digital dump and a forensics on his computer. They will look at his Google searches, they will look at their Google searches, they will look at the text messages between them. They will look at social media. And yes, like you say, you know, prosecutors don't have to show a motive, but it's always good to complete a story and juries always want to know why.
- [62:29]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
So with the limited information that we do have, I think the most honest assumption here, at least for now, is that that neighbor's 911 call, the one from days earlier, and that mysterious April 911 call, that maybe they weren't directly related, that maybe they were just incredibly, you know, this huge coincidence. And coincidences like that, they don't happen very often. But again, we don't know for sure. And some of the most recent information that we have, I have to say, is like, extremely major as well, because according, according to Columbus police, multiple weapons were found at Michael McKee's residence, and one of them is allegedly connected to the murders, meaning he had a gun.
- [63:13]
Co-host / Commentator
That matches the evidence that was found.
- [63:15]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
At the crime scene.
- [63:17]
Co-host / Commentator
And according to documents and reports, allegedly.
- [63:21]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
He used a silencer, which that would explain why the neighbor reportedly did not hear the gunshots, even though they say that they would have recognized them.
- [63:31]
Co-host / Commentator
So Michael's first court appearance was last Monday, where he and his lawyer waived his right to an extradition hearing. Michael didn't speak in court, though everybody.
- [63:40]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Has pointed out that he was completely.
- [63:43]
Co-host / Commentator
Emotionless, which we also know isn't super.
- [63:46]
Annie Elise - True Crime Podcast Host
Uncommon to see in cases like this one. That's where things are standing right now, which with how big this case already is and how much attention it's getting, I don't doubt for a single second that we will be following every single court date, every filing, every detail, all the way up to the trial, if that's where this ultimately ends up. I think we're going to be following this one very closely. So I would expect another episode in the future where once we have more information about the backstory, what happened from 2017 to 2025 between contact with Michael and Monique, we will definitely follow up with you on that. But one detail that I do want to mention, because a lot of people are asking, what happened to the kids, the 4 year old and the 1 year old, since Spencer and Monique's death, their two young children, along with their dog, their goldendoodle, they are now in the care of family members, which. That always guts me. No matter the case, no matter the age of the children, it always gets to me because I can't even imagine trying to grapple with what their family is going through right now. I mean, grieving two people that you love at the same exact Time trying to make sense of something that doesn't make any sense and then also layering on having to explain that to a four year old, a child who is old enough to know that something is wrong and that something happened and that mommy and daddy aren't coming home, but not old enough to understand the evil that is out there in the world. Trying to balance all of that while also trying to figure out what life is going to look like in the future, where everybody's going to live, how they are going to move forward. I mean, it is just devastating in every sense of the word. And as this case continues to unfold, those are the people at the center of it. The ones who deserve answers, who deserve justice, who deserve the space to heal and to figure out what happened and why did this happen. So we will definitely be following this. As I said, I'm gonna. We currently right now are doing a really big research into Michael and his history and I was going to include some of that in this episode, but there's still quite a bit we need to fact check. So like I said, definitely expect a follow up episode where maybe it's not the details about the murder itself, but in the lead up to it, everything that happened and that, you know, escalated until he decided to allegedly pull the trigger. And I'm just thankful that whoever did this, if it was in fact Michael, I'm thankful that whoever did this left the children unharmed because it definitely would have been easy for this monster to take their lives as well. And I am so glad that they didn't do that. So I will keep you guys posted. We are going to follow this one extremely closely, so make sure you're subscribed. Subscribed or following the podcast so that you do not miss any future episodes. But curious to know your thoughts too. What do you think the motive was here? Do you think that he had been refusing to let her go for years and then just snapped? Or do you think that this was some, you know, slow thing, slow build? I don't know. It's just such a big chunk of time in between, right? And that's what makes it so, so confusing and complicated. So I'll let you know as soon as we know more. But until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people, don't threaten people. And if your gut is telling you that something is wrong, make the phone call and check on a friend or a family member. Because our intuition and our gut instincts are there for a reason. It is, I often say it's our first line. Of defense. They're trying to tell us something for a reason. So if you see something, say something. And if you feel something, say something. Alright guys, bye.
- [67:49]
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- [68:19]
Podcast Host - Sponsor Segment
If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering with on time restocks. Your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [68:49]
Sponsor Voiceover
If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.