← Serialously with Annie Elise
Serialously with Annie Elise
365: BREAKING NEWS! Inside Job?!, Now Ghosting Family. Plus NEW Suspect Footage! | Nancy Guthrie Case
00:33:58
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- [00:00]
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- [01:02]
Host (possibly Sam from Serial Lessly)
Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Lessly. Hey everybody, welcome back to a brand new episode episode of Serial as Lee with me Annie Elise and we are doing a bonus episode today because it is Tuesday afternoon. We have brand new footage of the suspect in the Nancy Guthrie case and involved in her disappearance. We have footage, we have still photos. They're being compared side by side to people close to the family and there's a lot that we need to go over. So throwing this episode out as a bonus episode to walk you through everything that we know so far, what this new footage means, what I believe this footage appears to show and we're going to just talk through all of it together before we get going. Please take a quick moment. If you are watching this on YouTube, press subscribe so that you do not miss any future episodes as I just drop them as we get these updates. And if you are listening to this on the podcast definitely press the follow button so that that you also do not miss them as I upload them over to audio only for the podcast. So here's where I want to begin. I'm going to get to all of the footage and I'm going to share with you what people are saying, what I believe this footage shows. I'm also going to pull it up on the screen and walk you through it. So if you're listening to just the audio version, don't worry, I will walk you through everything but I want to rewind just a little bit and start with what the big takeaways were over the weekend. Now, for those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, which I kind of find that hard to believe, I feel like everybody right now in America knows this case probably even wider than America, too. But if you don't know Nancy Guthrie, Savannah Guthrie's mother, who Savannah is the host of the Today show. She was abducted over a week ago from her home in Tucson, Arizona. Since then, there have been two different demands for ransom that had been made. One in the amount of $4 million, one with the amount of $6 million, both to be paid in bit. And both of those ransom deadlines have expired. There have been multiple pleas from Savannah alongside her siblings for her mother's return, to which this person, this abductor, or these ransomers have been getting in contact with everybody else but the family. And I'm going to talk more about that, too. But now it has been over a week since Nancy first went missing, which is not only extremely alarming because she is in her 80s, but. But also because she requires daily medication. She cannot walk more than 50 yards unassisted. There has been no proof of life up until. It's still, at this moment, no proof of life, even with the ransom demands. And it just. The situation is getting more and more grim by the day. So that's the backstory here. And I have a whole other episode where I kind of break down the, you know, the timeline of events and what happened and how she was reported missing and the first scene suspect that was named publicly, although never confirmed by the police. So if you want to check out that episode, I will link it in the show notes for you just to get fully caught up. You can even listen to it after this episode, just to go back. But let's talk about everything that has gone down over the weekend, because there was a lot of movement and there was a lot of action over the weekend. So on Thursday night, after that episode of mine was released, Savannah's brother Cameron posted a second video in which he made a public plea from the family saying that, that they needed to know if these kidnappers really did in fact have Nancy. And they were once again asking this ransomer and this abductor to reach out to them.
- [05:04]
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This is Cameron Guthrie. I'm speaking for the Guthrie family. Whoever is out there holding our mother, we want to hear from you. We haven't heard anything directly. We need you to reach out, and we need a way to communicate with you so we can move forward. But first we have to know that you have our mom. We went to talk to you and we are waiting for contact.
- [05:25]
Host (possibly Sam from Serial Lessly)
Now, over the weekend, we saw lots of activity at not only Nancy's house, but also at Annie's house. Annie Guthrie, who is Savannah's sister and Nancy's daughter. Now let me just kind of say this. I'm just going to throw it out there. Since Tuesday of last week, there was a name dropped as a potential possible person of interest. And the name was Annie Guthrie's husband. So Savannah's brother in law and Nancy's son in law. Law enforcement has not confirmed that they have actually said that there is no person of interest. They said that there have not been any vehicles that have been identified that are tied to this investigation. However, ever since that name was floated out there about a week ago, everybody's been keeping an eye on Annie. Annie and her husband being like, oh, like reading into her behavior, how she looks on these plea videos, and just dissecting every single thing. So my point being that over the weekend there was a lot of activity at both Annie's house and also at Nancy's house. We saw at Nancy's house there was FBI and investigators on the roof. It appeared that they were looking into some possible wiring, you know, a potential other camera, things of that nature. And then on Saturday night, investigators did a three hour long late night search at Annie Guthrie's house. During this search, media on the ground had reported that there were lots of flashes going off on the inside of the home, indicating that they were taking a lot of, a lot of photos. They were seen coming in and out of the house with brown bags, seemingly to collect evidence, wearing gloves, of course, to protect any evidence. However, we quickly heard on Monday morning that that was a consensual search, that that was something that Annie and potentially her husband not only agreed to, but allowed them, you know, to come in. They were cooperative and this was a consensual search. We also know that that same day, when all of this activity was happening at Nancy and Annie's house over the weekend, that a third video was released. This video was from the siblings, Savannah alongside her brother and her sister, saying, quote, that they have received the message and that they will pay. So this video was much tighter. It was a bit shorter. And in it they're saying, you know, we will pay. We want our mom back, we want to celebrate with her. Which a lot of people started dissecting that as well, myself included, just being like, what are they Talking about celebrate with her, what like. And I have to say this too. I've seen a lot of comparisons out there of these videos from Savannah and her siblings alongside the videos from Silence of the Lambs and other things like that, saying this is a conspiracy. They sound so similar. Let me just tell you this. Typically when there is a high stakes case happening and a high stakes abduction and ransom amount, whatever you are reading publicly as a statement, as a plea to the abductor, to the captor, there will definitely be some work in crafting that message with professionals, whether it's the FBI, crisis negotiation or negotiators, hostage negotiators, whatever it may be. So. So the language is not only going to be relatively similar from case to case, but also there will be certain verbiage that is psychologically crafted that way for a specific reason. I'm not a doctor, I'm not a therapist. I don't know the exact reason, but I do know that we have seen it multiple times. So to compare them side by side and think it means something more, I think it's just, it's professional medical language when you're trying to get into somebody's psyche or trying to have them trigger an emotion or a feeling or something like that. So I don't know, I don't really read into it all of that much. However, once this video was also released, and I'm going to play it for you here in a minute, speculation about Annie, the sister and her facial expressions and her reactions during this video, I mean, the rumor mill just went wild because in this video, the truth of the matter is she does appear very distraught and almost at one point as Savannah speaking, kind of wincing in pain. So a lot of people are raising a red flag to that being like, hey, why is she reacting that way? Is it because she knows something? Is it because she knows the truth and she's trying to hide it? Whereas to me, I would imagine that anybody in that situation, when you're going on at that point, a week of your elderly mother missing, you're going to emote some sort of reaction that way and it's going to be a level you're not going to look what you may think is normal is my point. So again, trying not to read too much into that. And who the hell knows, right? Maybe in a week from now or a day from now, Annie and her husband will be arrested and somehow involved. But there's no evidence at this point that has been made public or that the, at the. Or that law enforcement has even acknowledged that indicates that they are at all being looked at in that way. They're looking at everybody right now. They're looking at every single possibility. So in this video, to me, she just seems like a truly distraught daughter who is scared to death and imagining the absolute worst. But take a listen for yourself.
- [10:46]
Family Member (likely Savannah Guthrie or sibling)
We received your message, and we understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us, and we will pay.
- [11:06]
Host (possibly Sam from Serial Lessly)
Now, during all of this, a gas station employee also spoke out, saying that the authorities had reviews, reviewed his surveillance cameras so that they could identify a potential person of interest. Now, what's interesting with this is that this gas station is near Annie Guthrie's house. It's about 10 or 15 minutes away from Nancy's house. The gas station is located near Annie's house. So take that for whatever you want. Then on Sunday, we saw again, lots of police activity. This time, it wasn't around Annie's house. It was solely focused on Nancy's house, at her property and the surrounding area. And during this search, we saw investigators searching what appeared to be a septic tank, a manhole. Like whether it's a septic tank or some sort of water storage, a manhole in the ground where potential remains could easily be disposed. They, of course, at this point, have not found anything. I think we would have heard otherwise, but it was alarming when everybody was seeing them search that septic tank. The sheriff came forward again once more and said that no vehicles have been identified and tied to the crime, that there still are, you know, no persons of interest. And both Annie at her house and both at Nancy's house, There is private security that is active and set up. So come Monday. The second ransom deadline passed at 5pm and the ransom amount was for $6 million and was requested to be paid in bitcoin. Now, apparently, from what I've heard and my understanding and the reason why there were two separate ransom deadlines is that the first ransom deadline was allegedly last Thursday, also 5pm but it was for the amount of $4 million. And then I guess the message was communicated that if you don't pay $4 million in Bitcoin by on Thursday, it's going to increase by $2 million to $6 million that we need by 5pm on Monday or else, which now we know both deadlines have passed.
- [13:08]
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- [14:08]
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- [14:36]
Host (possibly Sam from Serial Lessly)
TMZ also reported that as of Monday morning, the balance of the ransom account was still at zero. But they also said that it would only take a few clicks and a matter of minutes to change that if and when it was paid. Which is interesting because we have heard the family saying, we will pay, we will pay. We want to know. And still yet two days later, there was no amount in there. I'm sure that strategy, they're obviously working with the FBI. They're figuring out, you know, what course of action they need to be taking. But with Bitcoin, it is done digitally and, you know, electronically and easily online. So it was still zero as of Monday. Again, probably part of a strategy, but of course, as you can imagine, a lot of people are reading into that now in another interesting detail, the FBI reportedly said that they have not had any contact, any direct contact with the ransomwares, nor has Savannah's family, apparently. And I think this is where everybody was getting a little bit confused and quite honestly still is confused because these ransom notes were sent to media outlets almost like the Zodiac like, they weren't sent to actual persons involved in the case, except for one where the this guy ended up getting arrested because it was a fake ransom demand and he had reached out to Annie directly via text message. I think her husband as well, being like, hey, where's our bitcoin at? Like, have you transferred it yet? That guy, it was fake. He ended up being arrested. But nobody has communicated directly with the this person or persons. And I'm going to get to why I potentially think that could be a possibility here in a little bit here. So as I just mentioned, a little bit about the fake ransomer, the complaint, the official complaint was released saying that this ransomware demanded via text message to Annie and her husband that he wanted the bitcoin. And then later, once he was apprehended, he admitted he got their information online. He had been following the case publicly on tv, and so then he was trying to make a quick buck and like a piece of garbage filth and, you know, harass this family. So then on Monday, Savannah, independently, not alongside her siblings, released a video. Again, very short, very tight and to the point, but a public plea. And this one wasn't directed to the abductor necessarily, but more so the public asking to enlist the public's help, saying, if you've seen anything weird, if you know of anything, please say something. To me, she looks like a desperate daughter at her wits end, just desperate for information from anybody and asking the public to please help out in any sort of way that they can, which with how big this story has become and how many conspiracies are also alongside of it, I think that it could potentially be good, that maybe there will be some sort of information crowdsourced and it'll move the needle in this case. But I also think that it could be bad because so many people think that they know, think that they're right, think that their conspiracies are right, and it could flood these tip lines and it could, you know, really impact the investigation. But let me play that video for you.
- [17:46]
Family Member (likely Savannah Guthrie or sibling)
Hi there, everybody. I wanted to come on and just share a few thoughts as we enter into another week of this nightmare. I just want to say, first of all, thank you so much for all of the prayers and the love that we have felt, my sister and brother and I, and that our mom has.
- [18:19]
Host (possibly Sam from Serial Lessly)
Felt.
- [18:22]
Family Member (likely Savannah Guthrie or sibling)
Because we believe that somehow, some way, she is feeling these prayers and that God is lifting her. Even in this moment and in this darkest place, we believe our mom is still out there. We need your help. Law enforcement Is working tirelessly around the clock trying to bring her home, trying to find her. She was taken, and we don't know where, and we need your help. So I'm coming on just to ask you, not just for your prayers, but no matter where you are, even if you're far from Tucson, if you see anything, you hear anything, if there's anything at all that seems strange to you that you report to law enforcement. We are at an hour of desperation, and we need your help.
- [19:27]
Host (possibly Sam from Serial Lessly)
So after the deadline passed on Monday and after Savannah put out this new video, everybody, I think the sentiment was kind of expecting that this was going to be a recovery mission now rather than a rescue. It sounds like the undertone in some of these messages. The siblings have come to terms with the fact that maybe they don't believe that Nancy is alive any longer and that maybe things would just start quieting down a little bit until that recovery happens. However, there was another curveball thrown late Monday night. Brian Enten, who is freaking fantastic. He is covering all this on News Nation, also on his own YouTube channel. Brian Enten investigates. He's a friend of mine. He's fantastic. Definitely check out his footage. He has been, like, camped out there from day one in Tucson, but he reported that Annie's husband hasn't been seen since last Tuesday. Now, last Tuesday is when he first was named publicly in the public arena, not by law enforcement as a potential suspect. A very serious look at him, and he's been out of the picture. I mean, he has not been in any of the videos. Has he been seen at all, Brian?
- [20:38]
Brian Enten (News Nation Reporter)
He hasn't been seen since, I think it was Tuesday of last week. We got some photos of him outside the house here. He's very recognizable with this big beard. And he was outside with his wife, Savannah's sister, Annie, and they were in the car together. But it's been. It's now been almost a week. And something else interesting. You mentioned how they went. The. The authorities went and. And retrieved the surveillance video from the gas station and looking for someone. That gas station is a circle K, and it's right around the corner from Annie's house. It's not close to Nancy's house. It's right around the corner from Annie's house. And it's. It's where it's positioned. Is where you would have to drive to go from Nancy's house to Annie's house, which I think is really interesting. It's literally like one minute away from here.
- [21:22]
Host (possibly Sam from Serial Lessly)
So people think that's a little weird. But also, I kind of get it. All eyes in the world are on you. Effective Tuesday, you are going to fly under the radar. You probably aren't going to go out in public because you not only want people, don't want people to, like, attack you and, like, eviscerate you, but also any single image they capture of you, even if you're getting the mail, is probably going to be dissected 5,000 different ways. So I understand that why he, you know, hasn't been seen since last Tuesday, since that news first came out, and why he's been flying under the radar. But then I mentioned, too, and this came up again last night, that the gas station that the police went to get that security footage from was right by Annie Guthrie's house, not Nancy's home. So does that mean anything? Does it not? Is it? Because it's all, you know, in a relatively close proximity area. Not super close, but, you know, not super. Not widespread from city to city? I don't know. So as soon as the deadline expired on Monday night, the county Sheriff's office released the following statement. Many of you observed an active law enforcement presence at the Guthrie residence over the weekend. That activity will continue tonight and into tomorrow as part of the ongoing investigative process, including the expansion of the search and follow up on new leads. This is all part of the investigative process as the search for Nancy expands and new leads come in to preserve the integrity of this criminal investigation. Details of that process are not being released at this time. The FBI is handling all aspects related to any ransom note or notes or communications involving the Guthrie family. Any inquiries regarding this matter should be directed to the FBI Public affairs office. We appreciate the media's assistance in helping get information to the public. Thousands of calls have been received across multiple tip lines, and investigators continue to review them. Anyone who believes that they have information may assist investigators or. Sorry, anyone who believes that they have information that may assist investigators is asked to contact 1-800- call FBI. They also put up a QR code and things of that nature. So that's where it wrapped up Monday in comes today. And we got a bombshell first Tuesday morning, we heard that Nancy Guthrie's landscaper, pool cleaner, and other hired help at the house have been identified as recently being at the home and that they are now getting DNA tested. Which I think that that is actually kind of hopeful because if she had all of these workers in and out of her house, you never know. You know, who may feel like there's easy access to the home, who may know, you know where a key is hidden, hide a key or a way to get in, and may want to take advantage of an elderly woman and knows that her daughter is famous and that they can extort tons of money. However, what I think is so significant about this is that to me, that indicates some of the DNA that they received at the house is unknown, potentially male DNA, and that they're now swabbing the landscaper, the pool cleaner, and other hired help to see if there's any sort of match. And apparently they are forthcoming and they are doing these DNA tests. So I think that that's hopeful that they do have a little bit more information than they initially let on. And that brings me to my next point, because right after that, the sheriff announced that they would be releasing a photo and video of the potential person of interest. And so this video has sent shockwaves through the Internet.
- [24:54]
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- [25:53]
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- [26:22]
Host (possibly Sam from Serial Lessly)
If you're listening to the audio Version of this. Let me just describe it in this video. This person, who I believe appears to be a man or a very masculine woman, no offense, starts approaching the front door. This person is wearing a full blown ski mask, leather gloves, zipped up, leather jacket, pants, has a gun on the holster in front of their waist. Whether it's a gun or a taser, but it looks like a gun. And this was planned. Okay. This person also is wearing a backpack. So they approach the nest doorbell camera and it looks as though at that point they're trying to figure out how to disarm it, how to remove it. But then something I believe stops them. Maybe they can't, they can't figure out how to get it off of the surface or how to unscrew it because then they like take a few steps back to the front of the porch where the steps go up and reach inside like a planter bush area and pull out like a vine full of like leaves and foliage. And then almost it's like they try to wrap it all around the doorbell to like block the lens. So here's my question. This looked very planned, arguably professional, but if not professional, somebody who certainly researched how to potentially go undetected and conceal their identity. You don't see these face masks very often. Leather gloves, full jacket zipped up. It looks intentional. Also the weapon on in the holster right in front and it's not on the side of their hip. It's like kind of in the front, like crotch area. But then the backpack is what's interesting to me. I'd be curious to know what's in that backpack. Restraints, Another weapon, maybe something to subdue Nancy, Something to break open the door. Although we have heard that there were no signs of forced entry. So that is something that stuck out to me with the backpack. I'm really curious what that person had in there. And to revert back to last week when we were talking about the timeline, we know that when Nancy returned home approximately at. What was that like? It was like 9:50, I believe PM the garage door was open for two minutes and then it shut. And then the ring doorbell, or the nest doorbell I guess it would be, was offline at around 1:47. And then her. Somebody was seen on camera at 2:12. But they couldn't retrieve that footage unless they were lying. And this is the footage they retrieved. I don't know. Whatever. My point is, I have been thinking from the beginning not necessarily that it's the brother in law, but that it is somebody close to the family, somebody that the family knows. And here's why. I think that I mentioned in some of the first videos where Savannah was alongside her siblings and making the public plea that they said things almost like, contact us. We're ready to talk, or, we're ready to listen. Then in one of the press conferences, the sheriff said something, basically in a very quick flip it kind of way, but I clocked it right away. He said, we'll figure. Just contact us. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out to where? And I could totally be wrong. Again, I'm not a professional in this space. I'm not John Wick. I'm not, you know, these kinds of people. But the way that I got that message across or, like, the delivery in which I interpreted it is that they're making a public plea, knowing that they're communicating with somebody that they know, saying, we'll figure it all out. It's okay. Like, we'll work together. We're ready to talk. We're ready to listen. We will pay. To where it felt like. And not the we will pay, but the other statements felt more like partnership to me. And that you would say to, like, if you knew your friend did something or a relative, where you're like, just contact me. We'll figure it all out. You know, we'll figure this out together. Isn't necessarily what you would say to a stranger. Unless I get it. Maybe that's part of the strategy. But my thought was that this is someone that they know. Maybe not a relative, but somebody by proxy, somebody by extension, somebody who knows that Savannah has a lot of money now, that then made my mind wander a little bit further, being like, could this have been someone who was caught stealing from either Nancy or someone else in the family? Is it someone who was maybe a family member or a friend or a relative who was in financial trouble of some sort, and that's why this ransom is happening. And then it spun out of control because I also. Not to be grim, but it's my belief, and I hope I'm wrong. I really hope I'm wrong. It's my belief that with two separate ransom demands at this point, and Savannah, who is, I think, worth, like $40 million, saying they will pay, I would imagine that there would have been proof of life by now, but there has not been any proof of life. None that we have been made aware of, at least. And so I'm wondering, was this someone who was potentially close to the family? Maybe they were caught stealing from a family member. Maybe they owed Nancy money or owed Savannah money, or it was a family member who was in financial trouble, or maybe they recently got cut out of a will or like they got caught doing something, whatever. But somebody who thought, I'm gonna do this, it'll be a quick payday, it'll solve my problems. They come with the backpack, the gear, they're ready, and it spun out of control that maybe the medication threw them for a loop. And they, for. They didn't know that she needed that medication and so they didn't expect that it was, you know, potential life threatening medication or maybe, I don't know, maybe they are close enough that they have medication with them. Who knows? But I think we would have seen proof of life by now. And I think that then maybe with these ransom demands not only getting extended, but also not contacting the FBI directly or her family directly for these demands, but contacting news stations, it kind of feels sloppy in the sense of like a Hail Mary, like, shit, this spun out of control. I don't know what to do. Let's hope we can get this money and then get the hell out and flee and run or do whatever. That doesn't answer where Nancy is, where she's being held, or where her, God forbid, her remains have been put. But there's something within all of that that feels to me like it's something that went sideways, that this was not always the plan. I think that if this was a story, serious, professional job, and maybe I'll be eating my words tomorrow because we'll find out this was like some random from like a different country and they plan this whole thing. But like, if this were truly somebody who was random, but they were a professional, they had planned this. If you really are that serious about wanting $6 million transfer in Bitcoin, make it undetective. Undetected. Here are my different demands. This week long manhunt is going on. Nobody knows anything. If you want that money, you're showing some sort of proof of life. You're contacting people who can actually deliver that money. Not tmz. It just. Something feels very disjointed to me here. Almost like I don't think that this was ever supposed to get to this point. I think that maybe it was again, for a quick payday. Maybe they thought that they would just abduct her, it would be fine, they'd pay, it'd be this. I don't really know. And we'll learn that once the case continues. But I'm curious what you think. Do you agree with that or do you think that this was a professional job? Whether it's an inside job or not, but it feels like something that maybe started or the idea of it, I should say, not the action of it, but the idea of it started, smaller scale. And then it just snowballed and it went hard left. And I don't know if Nancy is still alive. I hope, I hope and pray and I hope to God that she is, but I don't know. And maybe this person is so desperate now that they are. Like we can't. Like I don't know if it is a family member or if it is somebody extremely close to the family, not close by proxy, maybe they are keeping her life. But I would imagine that like there's gonna be some sort of identification and tie. I don't know. It's a lot to wrap your mind around. But that's where my mind goes, that this was supposed to be something different and it turned into something, you know, spiraling out of control. But I could totally be wrong. I probably am wrong. Who knows? So that's where we're at right now. I'm curious to know from you based on this new footage, based on the side by side, a lot of people, and I'll put this up on the screen. A lot of people are comparing the eyes of the person seen on this footage to the brother in law. A lot of people are saying they see similarities. Similarities. Personally, to me, I don't. The eyebrows look thinner to me. The eyes look closer set. I don't know, that could just be me. But it does appear there's some sort of mustache or goatee situation going on. So I think it's. We're gonna, I think, find out some information sooner rather than later. Clearly the investigators and the FBI have more than they're letting on because they've had this footage, I would imagine for sometime, who knows how long, but sometime. And it's going to start coming out in drips and drabs. And maybe they're only doing that to shake out, shake the trees and see what comes loose or like spook some people or what's going on. But it definitely looked planned in the sense that this person came in full gear, full backpack, weapon on hip in the holster, with a plan, but also not a good enough plan to where then they're like grabbing leaves and stuff, trying to cover up the ring cam. So I don't know. I'm curious to know what you guys think. I'm not entire. I'm not sold on the brother in law theory and maybe I would make a investigator because maybe he'll be arrested right now as I air this. But like I'm not sold on that theory but I am thinking that it is someone within the mix close, close to the family, in the family's orbit somehow. Somebody who knows that there's family money and that Nancy is an easy target to get that money because of how close Savannah and Nancy are. So I don't know. Let me know what you guys think in the comments. Again as we get these updates. I will jump on here and just shoot these episodes out. So make sure that you're subscribed if you're not already listen to the podcast, follow the podcast as well over there and curious to know what you think. I also will am posting real time updates. Let me just pull this up. I'm pulling posting real time updates over on our true crime Instagram which the handle is serial lessly pod and you can see here I'll put it here there we put stills up of every update that we get along the way. So go follow that too. Let's hope that Nancy is found sooner rather than later. Hopefully God willing, alive. And let's just continue, continue to keep the entire family in our thoughts and prayers. All right. Until the next one guys. Stay safe. Bye Sam.
- [37:44]
Family Member (likely Savannah Guthrie or sibling)
Foreign.
- [37:55]
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