← Serialously with Annie Elise
Serialously with Annie Elise
366: Nancy Guthrie, Anna Kepner’s Step Brother Arrested, Tepe Footage Released & Lil Jon’s Son
00:54:23
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- [00:00]
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- [01:02]
Host - Possibly Annie
Hey true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hello, hello, hello. And welcome back to an all new episode of Serial, the true crime podcast with your true crime bestie here to talk about everything going on this week in True Crime. Now for those of you who are brand new to this podcast and maybe have not listened to, you know, a variety of episodes, let me give you the quick breakdown. Every Monday we release a brand new episode that is a deep dive into a single case where we go through, you know, all of the details, all of the law enforcement documents, we, we talk to people involved in the case, we go through Reddit theories, we just like bring you everything that anybody's talking about regarding the case. And then on Thursdays, come on here and I talk you through everything that has been happening this week in True Crime. Because unfortunately, as we know, there are new cases that break literally every single day. There are a lot of updates too, that come out to cases that we've already done previous deep dives on. So to just kind of keep you up to speed and keep in the know of everything. And this week there is no shortage. And I feel like I say that every freaking week. But it's true. We have a lot going on, not only in brand new cases, but in a lot of like big core cases that we have been talking about for months now. So we've got updates in the Anna Kempner case, which you probably are familiar with that case. She's the young girl who was murdered on the cruise ship. We have updates in the Tepe murder case out of Ohio. New footage has been released. New details in the affidavit has been released. It just really paints like and illustrates this horrific picture even more so than I initially thought. There's also some breaking news with Lil Johnson. There's of course updates in the Nancy Guthrie case. So there is a lot that we have to go over today before we jump into the cases. Please welcome back, Amy to headline highlights. I felt like a new bouncer.
- [03:19]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
I always am like, what is she going to say today?
- [03:21]
Host - Possibly Annie
I feel like I always say the same thing, but then I don't.
- [03:24]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
It's just in a different chone, a different shown.
- [03:26]
Host - Possibly Annie
I. That one felt very newscaster.
- [03:28]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
It felt very assertive.
- [03:30]
Host - Possibly Annie
I am assertive. Not really, but sometimes I'm assertive. No. So we have a lot to go over today and I, when we actually first spoke about the Anna Kempner case, the cruise ship case, you're the one who was like doing the deep dive and like going into all of that. So I want you to definitely share what you've learned. And because I know there's been a lot, there's been an arrest, he now was in federal court, all of those things. Let's actually, before we get into some of those bigger cases that we're going to circle back to a little bit, I want to start with everything going on with Lil John's missing son because he has now reportedly been found, although they have not been able to determine cause or manner of death. But let me just break down what happened and where we're at now. So on Tuesday, February 3rd, 27 year old Nathan Smith, the son of famous rapper Lil John, was reported missing after leaving his home in Milton, Georgia. Now, Nathan also took after his dad professionally and was in the music industry. So a lot of people refer to him as DJ Young Slade. That was the name he went by professionally. So you may have seen mixed reports between DJ Young Slade and Nathan Smith, but it is Lil Jon's son. I dj, I produce, I engineer, and I'm an artist. And my dad is the king of crunk, Lil Jon. One day he told me he wanted to learn how to DJ. This was 11 years old. It's funny, my dad never like, wanted me to be in music. He just like wanted me to do whatever I wanted to do. But honestly, I wasn't good at anything else. I tried sports and it just wasn't for me at all. Now the reason that he was immediately reported as a missing person was because apparently he left the home under what the police describe as, quote, unusual circumstances. Now what exactly these unusual circumstances were have not been fully described in the press, though we do know a few different things. Okay, for one, he left on foot. No car, no ride, no ride share, no friend picking him up, none of that. He also didn't take his phone with him. He left it behind. Now, the last thing that we know about these unusual circumstances is that he, quote, ran out of his home, so quite literally on foot. And this was around 6am on the 3rd, so very early morning. Now it might seem like that detail of him running out of the house versus just walking out of the house isn't that important in the grand scheme of things, but it does give to me at least a pretty good idea of what his mental state potentially was like at the time. It seemed as though he needed to get out of there as soon as possible, or wherever he was trying to go, he wanted to get there as quickly as possible. One report even noted that Nathan, quote, may be disoriented and in need of assistance. Family and friends are concerned for his safety, end quote. So right away, as you can imagine, there was a huge search with multiple different law enforcement and emergency agencies assisting. However, their searches were coming up blank. They weren't finding Nathan, they weren't sure where he went off to. They couldn't really find any clues as to where he went or why. So then sometime between February 3rd, when Nathan first went missing, and three days later, February 6th, the agencies seemed to switch gears in their search process. They started now expanding their searches very specifically to a pond in Mayfield park, which is pretty close to Nathan's home. Which to me, when I first heard that, that told me that, okay, at this point they were possibly looking into alternatives that weren't necessarily a rescue, but more so a recovery mission. Looking in bodies of water, looking in places where he wouldn't, you know, be concealed and they would have to actually look a little bit deeper. So on February 6, the dive teams got involved in this pond area. And the pond was honestly pretty big. So when I first like looked into it and looked at the actual scale of it and saw that dive teams were going in, I wondered if this was going to be some like days long thing where they were going to have to, I forget what the tool is that they use, but like scrape the bottom of the floor they did that with. And it wasn't a pond, I think it was a lake. But what's the case? I'm thinking of Naya Rivera, the Actress from Glee where they have to like bring all the tools and you probably know too adventures with purpose gets involved in things like that and where they have to like it take. It's a big undertaking is my point. However, it didn't end up being that at all. Because just a couple of hours into this search at 11:53am the investigators found something. They started pushing back all of the local media outlets who were there which indic that they had found something major and were trying to secure the scene. And that's when everybody started flying into a frenzy.
- [08:00]
Field Reporter
You can see that dive team going and searching for 27 year old Nathan Smith. Now we can see a couple of different people go in the water, a couple of people come out. They were in there for a couple of hours this morning. They got out at about 1:00 clock this afternoon. And now I want to take you to some chopper video because you can see what happened. They pushed us back from the scene. This is the only vantage point that we were able to get. We do not know at this point what they found, but we do know they made a discovery. So you can see they put up a tent, they brought out some bags, they moved some of the people closer with tarps that were in that search and rescue area and on that search and rescue team. So we do know again they have made a discovery. We just can't confirm at this point what that discovery is.
- [08:41]
Host - Possibly Annie
So that same day as the search on the 6th, the investigators announced to the public that they had found a body. And although it had not been confirmed yet, and it still has not been confirmed at the time of this recording, right now they did and do believe that it was Nathan. Now when it comes to Nathan's death, there are a few important things to note. The investigators have made it very clear that this is still an open and an active investigation. However, with that being said, there's also no indication of any sort of foul play being involved. They also noted that until there's an official cause and manner of death that is determined by the medical examiner, the, the investigators are not going to be sharing any more details. So for now it feels like there's this halfway resolution where we have a little bit more information, we know a little bit, we can probably start to put some context behind it, at least some, you know, assumptions in our own mind. But we're not going to get as any like concrete answers as to why he was disoriented when he left home, why he left home, what happened, you know, throughout those few days and if he was having some sort of mental health crisis or something. We also don't know why they eventually decided to hone in on Pond specifically. So after the news broke that this body that they had found was believed to be Nathan's Lil John, his dad ended up releasing a statement to the public. And I'm going to read this for you just verbatim. It says, I am extremely heartbroken for the tragic loss of our son, Nathan Smith. His mother and I are devastated. Nathan was the kindest human being that you would ever meet. He was immensely caring, thoughtful, polite, passionate and warm hearted. He loved his family and the friends in his life to the fullest. He was an amazingly talented young man, a music producer, an artist, an engineer and a graduate of nyu. We loved Nathan with all of our hearts and we are incredibly proud of him. He was loved and appreciated and in our last times together we're comforted in knowing that we expressed that very sentiment to him. So obviously a very powerful and emotional statement. But also, I know I mentioned that even at the time of this recording they haven't determined cause or manner of death or even a solid identification, like through forensics and all that, but it's pretty clear that everybody is on the same page that this is Nathan. His dad's even giving that statement. Now, regardless of whether this was the result of a mental health crisis or something different, maybe even something suspicious, which, remember, as of right now, that does not at all seem like the case. It is definitely devastating for the friends and family of Nathan because this is something that hopefully, I don't know, not, I don't want to say could have been avoidable, but I mean, at 27 years old, you still have your whole life ahead of you. And whether that struggle is for mental health, whether it's, I don't want to imply anything, but if it's potentially substance related or anything like that, it's just devastating to think about. And who knows if somebody had seen him leave the house that day, if they could have intervened or what could have happened. So obviously a very, very sad story.
- [11:36]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
That is sad. I know when you said he left running, you think like something was making him feel like desperate or fear or some sort of fancy. So maybe the phone gave some sort.
- [11:49]
Host - Possibly Annie
Of insight and he left it behind. I know, it's so sad.
- [11:52]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
So sad.
- [11:52]
Host - Possibly Annie
I know. Well, speaking of sad, let's move along to the Anna Kempner case because I know that there's a lot going on there and people have kind of been like itching for updates in this case.
- [12:01]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
I know because there really hasn't been much.
- [12:03]
Host - Possibly Annie
No, it's just been like. Is the word dormant kind of.
- [12:06]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Right.
- [12:06]
Host - Possibly Annie
Like quiet. Yeah. Silent. Okay. So.
- [12:09]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Yeah. Today, guys, we have some big breaking news on the heartbreaking homicide of 18 year old Anna Kepner. And for those of you that maybe haven't known a whole lot about this case or didn't follow it when we talked about it on Headline Highlights last fall, I'll give you just a quick recap. But basically, what started off as a normal family vacation aboard the Carnival Horizon cruise ship in Florida ended in complete tragedy on November 7th when Anna was found deceased inside her cabin room. Aboard the ship, she was wrapped in a blanket. She was covered in life preservers and was found underneath the mattress of her bed inside the cabin.
- [12:48]
Host - Possibly Annie
The.
- [12:49]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
And she was sharing that cabin with her younger stepbrother and her biological brother. Later, that autopsy report confirmed that she died from mechanical asphyxiation, specifically from what's called a bar hold, which is essentially when a perpetrator takes their arm and holds it against a victim's neck. So immediately her death was ruled as a homicide. And when the news first broke about the case, everyone was shocked, including us, because who would want to do this to this sweet 18 year old girl who was in her senior year of high school on this family vacation with her family? And we've heard so many cases over the years about cruise ships, people going missing, and just deaths that are unsolved. However, early on in this case, this one seemed a little bit more personal than what a lot of people had anticipated because even as early as December, a lawyer for Anna's stepmom announced that Anna's 16 year old stepbrother, who is being referred to as th because he's a minor, was sharing a cabin at the time of the death with Anna and was looked into as a suspect by the FBI. In fact, the FBI at the time was even considering pressing charges at that time. Even back in November, in the days and the weeks just after Anna's murder, there was word of security camera footage showing that he was the only one to go in and outside of that cabin room that night and was the last person to enter the door. So even before there was confirmation about potential charges, fingers were already being pointed at the stepbrother. And at the time, there were even rumors circulating that her stepbrother had this obsession with her and that she had may have even felt uncomfortable around him. Which leads us to our breaking news, because just this past week, he has actually been Arrested and charged as a juvenile in connection to Anna's case. And I know that sounds pretty vague, but the reason it's vague is because he's a minor. So the case is sealed. And they're just, just aren't very many details being shared. In fact, all we saw was that he was being walked into the courtroom by his attorney. And that's really all the details were shared. There is some speculation that the reason there isn't a lot of information coming out, that they're still trying to decide if he's going to be tried in fact as a juvenile since he's 16, or because of the harshness and brutality of this crime and the COVID up that he might be charged as an adult. So if he is charged as an adult, well, obviously be seeing some more details come forward. But for now, the case has been sealed. The only information that we do know is that there are charges against him and that as of now, he's been released into the custody of a relative who I'm assuming is his mom, Chantel Hudson, which is Anna's stepmom. But we don't really even know that for sure. That's just a guess on my part. Something else we also know is that he has appeared in federal court. We just don't know what happened, but that he did appear in federal court with his attorney. So something that a lot of people have been struggling with is just what could have possibly happened to this teenager to randomly attack his stepsister. And obviously in time, I think that we'll get some answers to that. Anna's dad, Christopher Kepner, has spoken out and was quoted saying he was just a normal kid. And I would have never thought that any of this would have happened. I want him to face the consequences and we'll be fighting to make sure that happens. And what we saw also back in the fall was his grandparents. They were actually kind of the first family members to speak out in an interview. And they kind of echoed those same sentiments. They said, well, you know, he was the only one seeing seen on the footage. He was the one staying in the room. So while we don't want to accuse him, you know, we also want to see justice for Anna. They even went on to describe that their relationship as Anna and her stepbrother being two peas in a pod. And it was rumored that the stepbrother, Anna's brother and Anna all wanted to stay in that cabin together. And there's some conflicting reports there because again, the grandparents said those two were two peas in a pod. They were all really close, and that although they had other options of where they could have stayed because the whole family was there on vacation, they had multiple cabins. The kids really wanted to stay together. So who even knows what was going on behind the scenes? Because it's definitely interesting to imagine this normal kid who then goes and does this horrific thing to his stepsister. However, other news sources have reported that these claims about him being a normal kid and close with Anna might have been debatable. Like I was saying, apparently the family actually sent him away to live with other relatives after Anna's death just to ensure that he wasn't a harm to any of the other kids. But then, according to the same source, those relatives also kicked him out of their home in late December. So we really don't know what was going on there. And if you remember, Anna's ex boyfriend had also come forward saying that Anna was allegedly afraid of her stepbrother. He claimed that she didn't feel safe when she was around him. The ex boyfriend also added that the stepbrother was infatuated with Anna, which I referred to a little bit earlier. I think there was even a mention of some FaceTime call where the ex boyfriend had witnessed the stepbrother do something inappropriate on camera to Anna and kind of spoke to her fear of him. So those are obviously very both very specific claims. So I'm definitely curious to know more about the family dynamic and to see if more details come out later. But I think we kind of saw this coming. And there was. And. And if you remember, also there, the brother had had what they described as like a psychotic break right after Anna's death as they were getting off of the boat. And they ended up taking him to a hospital, which is where he was then released to those relatives that he later got kicked out of the home. And there were also text messages that came out later between his, the stepbrother's mom. So Anna's stepmom and his dad, they were in a custody battle at the time. And shortly after, while they were still on the cruise ship and they had learned about Anna's death, she texted his dad saying, I need to talk to you. It's an emergency. And she basically said she was only allowed a couple minutes with th and that he just kept explicitly saying he could not remember what happened. And that was kind of the sentiment that we last heard, was that he didn't know what happened. He went to this hospital, he was released back into family custody. And then that was the last we've heard. Until now, he, like, blacked out or something, right?
- [19:18]
Host - Possibly Annie
Or he said he blacked out, not during the act, but afterwards.
- [19:21]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
And he just didn't know what happened.
- [19:23]
Host - Possibly Annie
Yeah, I. I mean, I think we all expected this at some point. We expected the arrest. Even the family members, I remember, were vocalizing like they expected an arrest. Me, like, why haven't they arrested him yet if, like, he was the only one in the cabin? But to your point, we don't know all the details. What we do know and what we have heard, I think it is fair to say this kid is very troubled. And like, we, unfortunately, even though they're not biologically related, have seen so many cases where they're sibling on sibling crime like that. And the first thing that comes to mind, my mind is the Lily Peters case. I don't even know if you're familiar with that. It's. It was a cousin, and it was her older cousin Carson. It's a disgusting case. Please do not look it up if. If you have not heard of it. But basically she was over at his. At her aunt's house, at Carson's house, and she was riding her bike home. And he's like, oh, I'll get. I'll help her get home. She, like, lived a few blocks away or whatever. And then he attacked her, sexually assaulted her and killed her. His own cousin. And I think she was. I want to say she was 7.
- [20:27]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Oh, my God.
- [20:28]
Host - Possibly Annie
Maybe. Maybe not quite that young, but she was definitely young. So it's. My point is we have seen these things where. Especially when it's boys, and I'm not trying to make an excuse, but when it's guys who are going through puberty or things like that, and they do get infatuated and they're obsessed and you're in close quarters and you said something to the grandparents, said that they were always like two peas in a pod. I think it's easy for grandparents and parents alike to not always know the full dynamic between siblings or kids or cousins, because it's like. It's almost like you see from an outsider's point of view. And I even think about, like, all of us, our cousins, and it's like, we obviously are very close, and there's never been any, like, crazy friction. But it's like you would. Anybody would think, oh, they're like family. They're like siblings, actually. But it's like you never know actually what conflict is happening within that, because when you're younger, you don't really vocalize that that much. If that makes Sense.
- [21:14]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Well, and from what I read, and I'm not sure if this is completely true, but the courtship between the stepmother and the father was pretty quick. So some people were saying, like, was there enough thought put into having this blended family vacation together with, you know, sharing a room? It's obviously like, one girl, two boys, and, like, what. What's that dynamic? I also actually saw a reporter say that she had gone on. If she goes on Carnival cruises regularly, specifically the Horizon cruise ship, and there's a really strict policy in place that if you have a minor on the cruise ship, they need to stay with somebody 25 years or older. So I do kind of see, like, if our parents and, you know, aunt and uncle were like, you guys totally. And. And. But this reporter had said, so when she goes with her husband and family, they actually have to get two rooms and that they. They separate the kids so that they can each be with one. Who knows how many people really follow those rules? But that's something to kind of. That's interesting.
- [22:18]
Host - Possibly Annie
And that makes a lot of sense, not only for, like, who knows what could happen behind closed doors if they're sharing a room, but to the point of, like, I was think I told you when we talked about this case before, it's so easy to sneak alcohol onto a cruise ship. It's so easy for minors to get access to that. So it's like, you take. I wonder if that rule's in place not because people think that anything like, this is ever going to happen, but, like, the reckless behavior of falling overboard or being funny and, like, pushing people around or, like, kids being kids. And so it's like, no, you need to be with adults, because, like, we don't, of course.
- [22:50]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Which. There was no alcohol found in her system and no evidence of any type of assault?
- [22:56]
Host - Possibly Annie
No. Didn't she go back up to the room because her braces were hurting her?
- [23:00]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Yeah. They said that she wasn't feeling well at dinner. She went back upstairs, but then they. She appeared to be feeling better because she came back downstairs and gambled for a little while, then went back to the room. So that's where it was kind of like, did he know she was going back to the room? Was it planned? Was it this. This moment of just something suddenly?
- [23:18]
Host - Possibly Annie
I mean, even though it's sealed because he's a minor, it will be unsealed in the future, or, I mean, it's gonna. Information will be released. So I'm sure you'll have updates for us in the future.
- [23:27]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Well, what I heard and I'm again not an expert on this, but I heard that in Florida if you're convicted, even if it is something as terrible as murder, they can't hold you past the age of 21. So I think that's a compelling reason for them trying to push to try him as an adult there.
- [23:44]
Host - Possibly Annie
Yeah, I forget what that is. There' a certain rule where if you're charged as a minor, you either transfer to a facility that's not a prison at 21, I'd have to look into that because a hundred percent I've heard that before. And I think that was part of the reason with Aiden Fuchi, why he was tried as an adult. I might be blending two cases together because he was in Florida too. He was in like St. John's or whatever and he was the one who was like 14.
- [24:06]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
That's crazy.
- [24:07]
Host - Possibly Annie
I've never heard that. And then what, six years you're out? Like that's wild.
- [24:11]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
I know. That is really wild.
- [24:12]
Host - Possibly Annie
Oh my God. Well, let's hope that she gets justice. It sounds like she will be.
- [24:16]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Yeah.
- [24:23]
Host - Possibly Annie
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No hidden toxins, no weird ingredients, just skin care that actually works. So if your skin is begging for hydration, head to dime beauty.com for 20 off with code podcast 20 that's dime beauty.com or you can also find Dime at Amazon and Ulta. Your winter skin will thank you. Okay, so now I want to talk about everything that is going on in the Tepe murders because there has been some shocking updates released, new footage and very unsettling autopsy details that really just paint how grim of a crime this truly was. So new autopsy reports are revealing just how brutal the killings of Monique and Spencer Tempe allegedly were. And like I said, these details are deeply disturbing. Now before we get into those, I do want to give you a quick reminder of how this case unfolded. In case you are unfamiliar and you're hearing it for the first time so you that you're not like Annie. What are you even talk about? Give me the backstory. So Mo' Nique was 39 years old and her husband Spencer was 37 years old. The two of them were found shot to death inside their Columbus, Ohio home. This was back in the early morning hours of December 30th. Now investigators believe that the couple was killed just before 4am with their bodies discovered roughly six hours later. But here's what is like horrible and my worst nightmare truly as a parent. Inside the home six hours after they were gunned down and killed, police also found the couple's one year old son and four year old daughter. Luckily, the two of them were unharmed and they also found the family dog also unharmed. So for a couple weeks, nobody really knew what happened. They didn't know if this was a home invasion gone wrong, if this was targeted, who was behind it. And there was like a 10 day manhunt trying to figure out who was responsible. However, less than two weeks later, Monique's ex husband, Michael McKee, a 39 year old vascular surgeon was arrested. This was following that 10 day manhunt I mentioned. He was located in Rockford, Illinois, which is about 440 miles away from Columbus. He ended up being extradited back to Ohio. It's now where he's at current. He's being held without bond and he's been charged with four counts of aggravated murder and one count of aggravated burglary. He's also pleaded not guilty. Now, we heard early on, once they made this arrest that investigators had said this was targeted, it was domestic violence related, and that this was just, you know, an attack from Michael aimed at Monique. And the truth is, when you really look at the alleged steps leading up to it, it is hard to ignore the level of effort that went into this. And let me break that down, because surveillance footage allegedly shows Michael entering Monique and Spencer's home on December 6, which was three weeks before the murders. They weren't murdered until the 30th. This was while the couple was out of town for a big game in Indiana. So investigators believe that this visit of his, it could have been like this recon style visit, basically an opportunity for him to understand the layout of the home, different entry points, timing, all while he concocted his master plan. We also don't know if Monique and Spencer, while they were at the game, were notified that Michael was at the property or if maybe Michael sent Monique some sort of like, taunting text message being like, oh, I see your coffee maker is left on, or I see, like, look how easy it was for me to get into your house, or something of that nature. But what we do know is that during the game, according to friends, Monique ended up leaving the game early before it was over, and went back to the hotel saying that it was because of something that upset her, involving her exact. Then in the weeks that followed, a silver SUV linked to Michael was reportedly seen near the home multiple times at different points. That vehicle also allegedly switched out the plates with different stolen Ohio and Arizona license plates, a detail that investigators, of course, are saying suggests intentional steps to avoid being identified. Then there's the actual trip the night of the murders itself, because according to cell phone data, Michael allegedly left his phone all the way back in Illinois at the Illinois hospital where he worked for roughly 17 hours. This was spanning from December 29th into the afternoon of December 30th, which, as we know, not so coincidentally, is the exact same window of time when police believe that the murders occurred. So investigators also believe that he drove that roughly 900 mile round trip trip during that window of time when he conveniently left his cell phone behind, which, let's just pause for a moment really quick because I know I just had a 900 mile trip. And let's put that into perspective. Driving a 900 mile round trip is about 14 to 15 hours of driving, nearly non stop in winter conditions. Also meaning that this wasn't some sort of casual drive or a spontaneous decision on his part. It was something that would have required planning, adrenaline, maybe even like stamina, and truly just a clear commitment to executing this plan, all without being detected. So, as I mentioned, police believe that Monique and Spencer were killed just before 4am, suggesting Michael would have had to have arrived in the middle of the night, you know, meaning when the family was most vulnerable, asleep, you know, not having their wits about them, not awake, not knowing what was happening. Then after he allegedly gunned them down, he immediately fled the state. Now, after his arrest, Columbus police confirmed that Michael was found with a gun and also that multiple weapons were recovered from his property. Investigators say that there is already a preliminary forensic link between one of those weapons and the murders. And the police also believe that the firearm that was used was equipped with what they are calling in their report as a suppressor, but also known as a silencer, which again, is just one more detail that suggests he wanted to go as undetected as possible, especially with these two young children inside the home. Now, autopsy reports that have been obtained from the Daily Mail and People magazine are laying out the full extent of the violence. Early on, it was reported that Spencer was shot multiple times and that Monique was shot once. However, that is completely different. Now, according to the autopsy reports, according to the Franklin County Office of the coroner, Monique was shot nine times, including once directly to her face. Face. She was shot three times in the chest, twice in her left upper arm, once in the right side of her torso, once in her right forearm, and once in her right hand. She also suffered abrasions on her chest and left forearm, along with a contusion on her left calf. Now, we don't know if they were in fact asleep when this happened or who he shot first at this point, but my thought, and I could totally be wrong, but when I read that she was shot in her arms, in her hand, to me that appears to be defensive, as though she was trying to block things. So perhaps he shot Spencer first, so that because Spencer is maybe the stronger one and he wanted to subdue him first and then go after Monique and maybe that woke her up and then she's tried Protecting herself, I don't know. But quite a lot of injuries. Spencer was also shot seven times. Twice in the chest, once in the back, once in the neck, neck, once in the left ear, once in the left hand, and once in the right arm. He also had an abrasion on his left arm. So both deaths, pretty early on were officially ruled as homicides because it was multiple gunshot wounds. And when you step back, I mean, truly, the alleged history between Monique and Michael, her ex husband, it starts to give more context as to why this may have happened. Because Monique and Michael were briefly married back in 2015, they also divorced less than two years later. According to court documents and also witness statements, Monique had confided in friends that Michael had been abusive and that he had threatened her life multiple times, both during their marriage and after their marriage. One witness even told detectives that Michael allegedly said that he could kill her at any time, that he would always find her, that she would, quote, always be his wife. Another witness alleged that Michael choked mo' Nique and that he also sexually assaulted her during their relationship and marriage, which that is horrifying to think about. But then when you think about the next level this went to, I mean, to carry such a grudge, such this high level of resentment for nearly a decade. They divorced back in 2017. She's remarried, she's has kids with this new husband. I mean, it's terrifying to think about that somebody is just, like, lying in weight, like, stewing on this and just, like, so upset, and you'll always be my wife. You'll always be mine, and just like, like, feels that they have that entitlement and ownership and power over you. However, a family member told the Daily Mail that Michael's arrest came as zero shock. They said that the family did feel a little bit of relief because the truth was, they had been expecting this all along, saying, quote, we are all breathing a bit of a sigh of relief because they got him. So now we're waiting on the next steps. But here's the thing. The newly released footage that has come out shows Michael in the moments after his arrest. And what stands out in this footage to me is just immediately how calm he appears. The Franklin County Sheriff's Office released several clips to Court tv. And they show Michael as he arrives at the jail. And in one video, he's seen walking behind a wall, just methodically handing over all of his articles of clothing and personal effects to the officers. They, of course, collect each item and log it as evidence. And then in another clip, he continues removing his clothing, including his socks, before an officer conducts a full body pat down. But the point is that throughout the footage, Michael just appears pretty much expressionless, Just very calm, cool, calm, collected. And at one point, he even appears to yawn. He just remains standing there compliant, and is seen speaking very calmly with the officers as their search of him continues. There's no visible struggle. There's no yelling, there's no stillness. It just. It appears that he is of kind, completely unfazed. Almost like he's happy that he got what he wanted, that now it's over, that his goal was to kill her and he did. So now he can, like, rest easy. It's very eerie when you see this footage and this case, this footage. It is something that will haunt me for years because it really, truly shows. Like, you never know what is going through somebody's mind, that whether you've been in a previous relationship with them, a current relationship. It's like this guy for a decade tormented her, stalked her, wouldn't let her go. And then once he finally kills her with her two children in the house, he gets arrested and just is so calm and just like, yeah, fine. Like, sure, I'm yawning, I'm bored. Like, it's fucking unhinged.
- [39:33]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
I mean, I have a lot of thoughts. But when you said the calm thing, it kind of makes sense. Only if you think, like, this person for 10 years has been obviously stewing over this, like, emotionally, mentally, just putting all his thoughts and effort into this. And then it's like it's over. It's almost like his body is probably, like, releasing. And just like, now he doesn't have to be tormented about whatever thoughts he was thinking in this planning. It's now all over. It's, like, finality. And, like, there isn't this. Like, I'm thinking about her with another guy, but to that point. That's crazy that this has been festering for that long. And, like, I immediately. I don't know why it thought I thought of Betty Broderick, but only because I was thinking, like, she was fueled by jealousy, but also she felt very wronged. And, like, this situation kept snowballing to where she went into their house. But she wasn't intending on having any type of premeditated killing. It just kind of happened. She went in the bedroom.
- [40:33]
Host - Possibly Annie
I don't know. I think it was premeditated.
- [40:36]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
You do? I mean, if I remember right, though, she was, like, full of rage. Like, went into the house, but she went into the bedroom. But, like, I don't I. Yeah, I guess I. Yes. But I don't think it was like premeditated the way this was. Like changing out your plates, leaving your phone behind.
- [40:51]
Host - Possibly Annie
This is more methodical, for sure.
- [40:53]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
And he's been like thinking about it for a long time and like planning.
- [40:57]
Host - Possibly Annie
He left his phone behind, all of that. But which. That doesn't mean that she wasn't premeditated. It just means he thought he was.
- [41:02]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Smarter or smart enough and who knows how long he'd been planning it. But it. You're going to leave your phone behind, change out your plates, but there's cameras everywhere and you're driving your same car.
- [41:12]
Host - Possibly Annie
And like, you're a. I hate people like this.
- [41:16]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
And like, get a life. She's moved on. She has children.
- [41:20]
Host - Possibly Annie
I mean, thank God he didn't harm the kids. Thank God, which I don't know. I would need. I need like a psychologist in here to tell me why somebody like that wouldn't harm the kids. I mean, not that I think he should have, obviously, but like, like, if he had such a rage and if he hated that she moved on and had this new life and had these new kids, like you would think he wanted to wipe out the whole family and there was hatred. But like.
- [41:40]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Or that he would have done something to the kids to hurt her.
- [41:43]
Host - Possibly Annie
Right.
- [41:43]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
So, I mean.
- [41:45]
Host - Possibly Annie
Oh, God.
- [41:45]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Disgusting.
- [41:46]
Host - Possibly Annie
I know. I also want to take a second really quick to talk about everything that's going on in the Nancy Guthrie case because it is getting wilder by the day. And I'm going to this keep pretty tight, you know, succinct, because I have been putting out bonus episodes on the feed, you know, outside of the normal release schedule with these updates as they've been happening, just so that you guys can all keep up. But basically what we know as of right now is there was a lot of activity over the weekend at Annie Guthrie's house. Also at Nancy Guthrie's. There were a lot of searches. They were said to be consensual. At one point, there was a septic tank or water storage manhole type situation that was being searched. Then earlier this week, they had detained somebody, a person of interest that they wanted to question in connection with Nancy's abduction. However, they released him a few hours later, saying that the tip that they got, you know, was a false lead. He didn't have any sort of connection. He has since spoken out. His mother in law has also spoken out. There also was a third note just as of yesterday that TMZ reportedly received. But this note wasn't from the kidnappers. It wasn't a ransom note, but it was a demand for bitcoin. Still, in exchange for them naming the suspect, in this note, they provided a new bitcoin wallet or however that works, saying, I'll tell you who's involved if you transfer one bitcoin, which is approximately $65,000. And they said, you know, time is of the utmost importance. Which is interesting because. So this came from a different bitcoin account. Some person trying to make a quick buck buck. But that amount is also pretty similar to the current reward that is out there. I believe the reward amount is about 50, 000. So if this person truly was sitting on information, I mean, first and foremost, how about be cryptic, bag and just share what you know. But also, why do you need this cryptic bitcoin exchange when you could just contact the FBI and get the reward money and be like, you know, a great citizen? I have a lot of thoughts. I think that this whole situation. I know a lot of people are saying the brother in law. I'm not ready to say the brother in law. But I do think that it is somebody close to the family or adjacent somehow, that potentially there is something going on with money and financial issues, whether this person was caught stealing from a family member or a relative and. Or whether they're in financial trouble themselves and they were trying to make a quick buck. And I think that this whole situation got so out of control that now it's just spinning constantly. Because think about it too. If this was like a real abduction, and I'm not saying it's not a real abduction, but like, if this were like a true professional abduction, and they're demanding millions of dollars in ransom money, and the family is now saying, we will pay. We will pay you $6 million. We just want our mother back. Yet you're ghosting the family. You're not even contacting them. You're sending these messages to tmz, to Fox News, to wherever it is. Is like you're the Zodiac. And you're not contacting the family, you're not contacting the FBI when they clearly have vocalized, we will pay you. Obviously, you're not trying to get that money. I mean, not in any real tangible way, which leads me to believe it's either something to deflect or they haven't thought it all the way through. I think they're just throwing to the wall at this point the abductor or whoever was involved in this, because I think it's now spiraled out of their control. And I broke this down way more in detail as to why I believe this, what I believe to be the truth as to who's involved and what's going on on the bonus episode that released on Tuesday. So rather than like rehash and regurgitate all of that here, just go back one episode in the feed and it's all about that case. And we talked to about the public pleas from Savannah and her family members and, you know, little statements that were said in the press conference and in those pleas that make me believe they are talking to somebody that they know and that they want to work in part, like in a partnership with them to get Nancy back. But what is interesting, I've been saying that unfortunately I just don't believe that Nancy is alive any longer because I think that these people who are sending these ransoms would have shown proof of life by now, again, if they actually were truly interested in getting the money. And we know they haven't shown any sort of proof of life. But I also think that something is weird. So I break all of that down and talk more in depth about that. But something that I was thinking about earlier this morning and last night. Savannah and her brother Cameron have both not only put out videos publicly where they all are side by side, all three of the siblings, but Savannah and Cameron have put her brother, have put out videos independently on their social medias, playing for their mother, safe return for the public's help. Annie has not. And look, I know a lot of people are looking at Annie, A lot of people are looking at her husband. And I'm not saying that she isn't doing that because she's guilty or has some sort of of inside knowledge. Not at all. But my first thought was, oh yeah, she's not posting on social media and she's gone private and she's underground and all these things because of all the public scrutiny, right. Everybody is like saying that her husband is involved in this. Like I would get, you want to lay low. You don't want to like divert attention from the investigation where people are just polarized by you and they're focusing on you. And like, you also don't want to be scrutinized for your every single move and whatever you say and everything being dissected, which she has been. So I understand that. But also then I took it a step further and thought if my mother been abducted and was being held against her will and there was a ransom, even if people thought I was prime suspect number one, I'd be Posting on social media because I know that everybody would be lurking my. That the whole everybody would be watching my every move. So it's like, that's the way to spread the word faster, to get more people involved. So. So the way that she has just not posted anything while her other siblings have. Not that it makes me think that she's guilty or involved necessarily, but there is something about that that just doesn't rub me the right way. I don't know why. And I could totally be overthinking it. It also could be the FBI telling her, you know, go silent, be radio silent, don't say anything, because there is, you know, bad attention on you right now. There's obviously a lot more people involved in this that are running the strategy behind everything, but that was just kind of my thought. So now we're waiting to hear what the next situation is going to be. Is Nancy alive? They say that they believe that she is, although they haven't given us any sort of indication as to why. We saw the new footage of this person approaching Nancy's house with a full backpack, holster on their hip, with either a gun or a taser. Full gear, full mask, like gloves, ready to go. I don't know it like, again, I'm not going to just rehash it here because if you listened to the episode two days ago or a day ago, you're gonna be like. Like you're saying the exact same thing. So go listen to that if you haven't yet. But I will keep you updated for sure on everything that goes on with Nancy. I have been posting like wildfire on my Instagram account, which is serial asleep pod, where I'm posting every, like, few minutes, every time we hear something new, whether it's a video of me, a still graphic, whatever it is. So follow that as well, and make sure you're following the podcast or the YouTube channel, because I'm posting these on YouTube as well, and these updates as they're happening in real time. Last night, I put one out at like, 10pm another one this morning at 6am so sometimes it's not easy for me to record in studio on the mic the full update. That's the way to get you the faster information. So make sure you're following Serial Pod on Instagram, Annie Elise on YouTube, and of course, follow the podcast if you're listening to the audio version of this on Apple or Spotify, so that you don't miss the bonus episodes like the one from yesterday or whatever as they drop. Now, I want to Mention something really quick and I know it's your favorite person on the planet and you're going to be so excited. It's about Mike King.
- [49:36]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Oh, my God.
- [49:38]
Host - Possibly Annie
Amy has a crush on my King.
- [49:39]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
I love Mike King.
- [49:41]
Host - Possibly Annie
I love him too. He is like a teddy bear. Can I say that?
- [49:44]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
I was just gonna say, I just want to give him a big hug.
- [49:46]
Host - Possibly Annie
I know he's the best. So I want to mention a very new interesting podcast by my favorite person in the world, Mike King. He has a true crime channel and podcast called Profiling Evil. He's been a guest on my show before. He is like the best person in the world. He's a former criminal investigator. He's also a former profiler, so he always will give, like, unique perspectives on cases. He talks a lot about his past history in the field and he now he's worked a lot with Colts. Okay. So I've had him on a lot of Cole episodes too. And he now launched a new seven part podcast called the Gardens of Evil Inside the Zion Cult Society. Now it's a deep dive into this very secretive cult that was totally embedded in like this seemingly perfect suburban neighborhood in Utah. Think like these manicured lawns, these perfect little houses, friendly neighbors, this tight knit community. However, behind all of it, it was like the whole community was in a cult. It was psychological warfare going on, sexual exploitation, bringing kids into the fold, and it was all, of course, centered around a very charismatic cult leader. They all are, right? And Mike is the one who actually helped dismantle the cult in real life. He wrote a book. The book's called Deceived. And he literally sent me a copy like a couple years ago when he wrote it. And it's about the Zion Society cult. And I read it within one afternoon. It's so good. He gets in there. It talks all about the raid, which he was a part of, the woman who came forward. It's just unbelievable and even better than all of the amazing work that he's doing. Proceeds from his work support children's advocacy and criminal justice scholarships. So I want to play a quick 30 second trailer for you of his new podcast so that you can hear for yourself. Gardens of Evil Inside the Zion Society Cult tells the story of a cult in a Utah suburb operating in plain sight.
- [51:35]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
I said, you have messed with the.
- [51:38]
Host - Possibly Annie
Wrong woman as I went out the door. And he did it.
- [51:41]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Was our whole life some form of abuse? Like, I can't think of any time.
- [51:45]
Host - Possibly Annie
That was just joy. Gardens of Evil Inside the Zion Society cult is the Fifth season of the award winning series American Nightmares. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. So definitely check that out. It's gonna go on your listening list.
- [52:00]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
No, I was just saying I'm so interested to listen to.
- [52:03]
Host - Possibly Annie
Oh my gosh.
- [52:03]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
And especially because he's got the firsthand experience. So he's always so interesting to listen to.
- [52:08]
Host - Possibly Annie
I know he every single crime content too. He's does panels and every time I go, I sneak away so I can listen. They're cry. I know they're full and I cry every time. He's just so good at what he does. So I don't know, guys, check out that podcast or just check out his YouTube channel and podcast profiling evil. He's extremely smart and just amazing. I love him. So thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode of Headline Highlights over here on Seriously. Don't forget, follow the podcast if you're not already subscribe on YouTube. If you're not. Sometimes YouTube unsubscribes people too, so. So hit the subscribe button. And I will be back with you on Monday with an all new Deep Dive. As a reminder too, head on over to the Instagram at Serial Pod and follow that because for all of these cases where there's updates breaking every freaking hour, it seems like, especially like the Nancy Guthrie case, it's easier for me to post over on there. So make sure you're following there. Other than that, I'm winded.
- [53:03]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
It was a lot today.
- [53:04]
Host - Possibly Annie
It was a lot today. We're at 52 minutes. It's a lot today.
- [53:07]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
I know. I'm out of breath.
- [53:08]
Host - Possibly Annie
Breath. I need water. People are gonna be like your vocal fry. I'm just dehydrated. Okay. So have a great weekend. Have a good rest of your Thursday. I will be back with you on Monday. And actually, I'm not done yet. If you did not listen to this week's episodes, go back and listen to them. We have two. Okay, two brand new ones Monday on this feed we put out. Actually, I probably shouldn't even tell you to listen to it because it's that awful. And I don't know if you know about this case, the family murders. It's the Australian stuff. Sex cult. It's like they think like Epstein files. Like it's crazy. And so we talked about that on.
- [53:44]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Monday and that was a recommendation from someone on our team, right?
- [53:48]
Host - Possibly Annie
I think so.
- [53:48]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
They wanted to look into it.
- [53:49]
Host - Possibly Annie
Yeah, it's. It's horrific. I don't even know how it got approved by YouTube, but it did. And then on Tuesday, we released an episode on our second podcast feed called 10 to Life, about a case who of a girl who met a guy on Tinder. They hit it off, things were great. Then she decided to move on, like so many girls do. Broke up with him, and he did not take that very well. And it is one of the more. I don't want to say brutal, but like is invasive. A good word. I don't even know where to describe, but it's awful and it is so scary to think about. So two brand new episodes on both of those feeds. Follow both podcasts if you're not already, so that you don't miss those. All right. And until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people, don't join any cults. Stay safe. Stay safe. What else? Don't go on any cruises.
- [54:41]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
Happy Valentine's Day.
- [54:42]
Host - Possibly Annie
Happy Valentine's Day.
- [54:45]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
I know. I hate that I even said that. I don't have a Valentine. Just kidding.
- [54:53]
Host - Possibly Annie
You be my Valentine.
- [54:54]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
You beat the Valentine. Yeah, actually.
- [54:57]
Host - Possibly Annie
Do you. Jer's going away for the weekend because he has a stupid race again. So you can come Valentine's. Valentine's. You can come be Valentine's with the kiddos.
- [55:04]
Co-host - Possibly Amy
I'd love to.
- [55:05]
Host - Possibly Annie
Okay. Emmy will probably, like, eat all the candy, though, and steal it and, like, punch you in the face, but it's fine. All right, bye, guys.
- [55:24]
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Host - Possibly Annie
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