← Serialously with Annie Elise
Serialously with Annie Elise
378: Taylor Frankie Paul: New Disturbing Video & The Bachelorette is OFFICIALLY CANCELLED By ABC
00:43:40
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host Annie Elise
This episode of Serial Less Ly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are all things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.
- [00:38]
Annie Elise
Hey true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Astley. Hello, hello, hello. And welcome back to an all new episode of Seriously with me, your true crime bff, Annie Elise. Now here's the deal. You probably saw from the title and obviously from being outside of the normal release schedule, this was an unplanned episode. Also, this is a true crime podcast. We very rarely talk about anything that is pop culture related unless it happens to intersect with true crime. And although this is definitely criminal elements to it, it's, you know, true crime adjacent. It is more pop culture. But the reason I wanted to talk about it is because so many of you guys have been in my DMs, and personally I have been following along with this story, not only from right now, and it's currently in season, the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. And really quickly, for those of you who have absolutely no idea who I'm talking about or what I'm talking about, there's this show on Hulu. It is the number one show on Hulu and it's called Secret Lives Mormon Wives. And in it it follows a group of young Mormon women. Well, not super young, in their late 20s, early 30s, but women who are married, who grew up in the Mormon Church, who had children very young. It shows them coming together as a group through what they call Mom Talk, where they were creating tick tock dances together, really creating this bubble of support, you know, women supporting women, where they would go to each other's events and they would do these things. And it's exploded over the last few years. Like I said, it's Hulu's number one show. And arguably the star of the show and the one who created Mom Talk is Taylor Frankie Paul. Now, Taylor Frankie Paul has, I believe what she has two different fathers of her children, one with her ex husband. She had a big swinging scandal back in the early 2000s. You may have seen it where she and another friend, they would like swap husbands, they would kiss, they would like have these cabin parties where they would swing. They ended up getting divor and then she got with her now on again, off again boyfriend Dakota, who she also has a child with. And they have just been stuck in this very toxic cycle for years now. So on this show, we have seen some of the toxicity in their relationship. We've seen her try to leave him come back in. We've seen him manipulate her. And it's just been a lot of this back and forth and it follows all of the girls. And I watch it, not everybody does. So you may have absolutely no idea what this show is or what it means, but she is going to be the new Bachelorette on ABC as well. She's, you know, incredibly popular and famous, but now she is in the headlines for all the wrong reasons for domestic violence allegations, child abuse allegations, just a full string of chaotic things that she has allegedly done. And it's just, you know, not looking very good. And I could give you the full backstory and I certainly will if you want it. But I just want to give you a little brief nugget of what this show is, who Taylor Frankie Paul is so that you can follow along with this story as we continue. And then you can, of course, Google her name as soon as this episode is done or while you're listening to this episode and you'll be able to see more. But from when they aired season one back in, gosh, what was it, 2023? I think. 2020. Yeah, 2023. And so today there's been so much going on this week with Taylor Frankie Paul, the star of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. She is also was set to be the new Bacheloret abc. And as of now, officially that has been canceled. I'm going to talk more about that. But there's been a lot in the news going on. So because a lot of you have been in my DMs asking like, have you seen this? Did you want to have you talked about this? Because, you know, I am a pop culture girly in my spare time. I wanted to talk about it and it actually worked out perfectly because a friend of mine, Josh, who has a podcast called the dad Challenge Podcast, he talks a lot about influencer culture, family vloggers, the damage that certain things can ha that can happen when you're young and encountering fame. And he was going, we were texting about this back and forth for the past few days. And then he texted me today. He's like, hey, did you see the new video that dropped? Because a really graphic Video was released by TMZ of Taylor, Frankie, Paul and lashing out and in turn, accidentally. And I say accidentally because I don't think it was intentional, but she hits her daughter and abuses her with a chair. And so. Well, maybe abuses is the wrong word, but I mean, it is. It's child abuse, but you get what I mean. So anyway, he's like, did you see the video? And I was like, yeah. He's like, I'm gonna go live right now. And I was like, oh, my gosh. I was like, well, I just finished recording. I'm happy to jump on your live stream if you want. So I joined him. We went live. We talked about all of it in the middle, too, of us going live. And it was released that ABC has officially canceled her season of the Bachelorette. So anyway, we talk all about it, and it's not a full in depth with all the backstory of the 2023 incident. Although actually, now that I think about it, we did talk a lot about that. But it's just more of what's happening right now this week and today with that situation. So I decided, you know what, I'm going to pull that audio from his live stream, put it on here, since so many of you guys have been asking what my take is on it, and just put it out as a bonus episode. So this won't obviously take away from any of the other episodes that we do that are true crime. This is just throwing it out there. And like I said, I do follow a lot of pop culture stuff. I follow Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, Housewives, Justin and Blake, and that whole saga and everything. So let me know if you're interested ever in me talking more about that stuff. Obviously, I would probably have it live elsewhere, not on this podcast feed, since this is dedicated to true crime. But if you are like me and you follow the those things too, and you would want my take or just to hear about daily news and pop culture things, let me know. But I'm going to go ahead and play that episode with Josh and I
- [07:04]
Podcast Host Annie Elise
that we just recorded literally moments ago.
- [07:06]
Annie Elise
And curious to know what your thoughts are on this entire situation, too. So here we go.
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Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
We've got a special guest, and I want to hear everything she has to say about this. Annie, my favorite and yours.
- [07:22]
Annie Elise
I'm here. Can you hear me okay?
- [07:24]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Yeah, I can hear you. Can everybody hear me?
- [07:26]
Annie Elise
I haven't live streamed in a minute, so I'm just making sure my equipment's all set up. Hi. Thanks for having me.
- [07:31]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
No, thanks. For being here. And did you see my intro when of the studio? When I broke your studio? I played on every intro.
- [07:37]
Annie Elise
Oh, I need to go back and watch it. No, I just hopped in on the back end. So, yeah, I'll go look at it after this.
- [07:42]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
All right. So I was just ranting about this whole scenario and how I haven't let it go because this is bad because. And you know my story. I was abused as a child. So when I see stuff like this, it's hard for me to let it go because at its core, there's a child in the mix here, and I think she's gonna lose custody, like, at the very bare minimum. I don't even know if the. The dad, the original dad, her original husband has even seen this till now. This was dropped, what, an hour and a half ago or something like that.
- [08:06]
Annie Elise
I know they do have knowledge of it, because I think, if I'm remembering correctly, I know this was the 2023 incident. I believe in the police report, they said that her child had a goose egg on their head from being hit with a metal chair. And I think that, again, don't quote me, I would need to go back. But I think that she then had supervised visitation for a minute. That was like, season one, too, when they, like, took the long break from filming and she put herself in some sort of treatment. So I think there is knowledge about it for sure, but definitely not, like, to this visual capacity necessarily.
- [08:37]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
And how did that therapy go for her? Obviously didn't take, clearly.
- [08:41]
Annie Elise
No, I. I'm gonna just tell you, I have a hot take. I don't know what your stance is. I think I know, but I've been reluctant to talk about this situation. I almost. Like, I posted. I went to post a story the other day on my Instagram and I deleted it because I was like, maybe it's too much of a hot take. I don't think either one of them are innocent in any stretch. I think that he has bad behavior, she has bad behavior. But I have thought, personally, just my opinion from day one, season one, that Taylor appears more problematic to me. And I think that's just because there's issues from her past that maybe that she hasn't fully dealt with things like that. But even I haven't finished this season. But even this season, too, like, he's obviously doing a lot of shady and dirty stuff and, like, sleeping with her friends and all of that. However, I think it's a little bit hypocritical to have some fly someone in sleep with him, do all this and then get mad if he goes to Europe and sleeps with somebody else. And then you make it this big deal like you don't love me to help me. Well, you were just sleeping with somebody else too. Like, I just think there's a lot of double standards throughout it. And it's obviously very toxic and unhealthy dynamic. And now this video coming out just illustrates that all the more.
- [09:48]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Let's talk about the reactive abuse excuse that I've seen all over and we'll see it on the TMZ video in a second here. Now, I. I tend to agree in my tomorrow's video. I touch on this again before this came out. But the reactive abuse thing, I honestly do believe that Dakota knows what he's doing when he pushes her buttons. He knows exactly which. He knows what to say. Is it reactive abuse, meaning that he's abusing her and so she's reacting to it? I. Unless, I mean, it depends your definition of the abuse here. Or is he just egging her on, knowing he's going to get a reaction to film it for his own clout, which is what he's doing. 100. This came from him. There's. It's.
- [10:20]
Annie Elise
Oh, yeah.
- [10:21]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Damn phone.
- [10:22]
Annie Elise
So it's bad behavior.
- [10:24]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Yeah. Never. But she takes it to the next level when like, okay, they're acting like children. They're acting like a bunch of high schoolers. But he knows she's going to do that. But what we see here, that's beyond the pale. Like, that's beyond anything that you could argue and scream and do. Whatever. Whatever. I get that he's. He's eliciting that emotion and he's invoking that from her. But what she did was. That's unheard of. That's crazy.
- [10:45]
Annie Elise
No, I don't. I don't know if you've played the footage and I watched it once. That's enough for me. But I think it's the third swing of the chair when the legs go all the way around. And then you hear her child crying and it's. And she didn't even stop in that moment. You like before the video cuts. She's still angry and going. Even hearing her. Her child crying and it's like, it's very problematic. My guess, if I were a betting person, I don't know if Bachelorette's going to pull it the pro the season. But I think she'll probably check herself into some sort of treatment now that this has gone public.
- [11:18]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
But just because she's been caught. Also, she pulled out of the. What was the Jimmy Fallon. Jimmy Fallon she was going to do tonight? She pulled out of it. Honestly, in tomorrow's video, I put my tinfoil hat on. I say, is this all, like, is this all on purpose? Are we seeing this now on purpose? Because you don't think so? Because this is. This is the most anybody on the earth has ever talked about Bachelorette.
- [11:41]
Annie Elise
No, I don't think this is on purpose. I think I personally. And look, I don't know the motives of either one of them. I again, I think he plays dirty and does a lot of shitty things and is abusive in certain ways, as I think she is. But my guess is she's been on this press tour all week on morning shows for the Bachelorette because she's contractually obligated to do so and because they are moving forward with the season as of yesterday. Right. Who knows what they're doing now? They're probably in crisis mode. But on these interviews, it's, of course, very heavily scripted with her PR team. She keeps using words like, it's heavy, it's this, it's that. And alluding to. I see the headlines, but you guys don't know the whole story. And making enough little nuggets of insinuation of like, you don't know the full picture and what he's done. So my guess is that this was released in retaliation to that to be like, to call her bluff. Me, like, fudge you. You're going to, like, go on Morning Press and talk about how, like, people don't know the whole situation. Here is the situation. Let's just show everybody. I don't think it's calculated in any larger way to, like, up the ratings. I don't know the ABC will cancel it. I think that they're going to get a lot of crap if they don't cancel it at this point. Because if the roles were reversed and if we were hearing the allegations that a man was choking a woman with a necklace, we saw a video of him hitting his child with a chair. There was the body cam footage from 2023. There is no world in which anyone would be platformed for that. People have been canceled for far less. Far less.
- [13:06]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
And I think if you think about just a comment, oh, here it is. It says, I think that some type of addiction is going on. As a former addict now we know that she's not supposed to be drinking alcohol. She said she's been sober. The cast has admitted, we think that she is sober. We don't think that's the issue. But we know that he's a, he's a, he's an addict as well. Do you think there could be something here, and I know we're just spitballing here, but that they get together and do those things to hide it from the rest of the people because they're each other's. Like it's possible.
- [13:33]
Annie Elise
But I also think that there's so many other forms of addiction. I mean, I'm not obviously a doctor, I can't speak on it, but just through cases I've covered, there's love addiction, there's sex addiction, there is toxicity addiction because you need that passion in your life. And so I do think that they are addicted to each other and to this cycle and to hurting each other and then trying to overcome that hurt to prove their love for one another. And they have not figured out a way to break that cycle. I don't know if substance addiction is necessarily a component. I don't feel confident enough to guess on that.
- [14:03]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Yeah. But I know, and I think you know this too. But like people who are addicted, when they give something up, it just, it just is replaced with another addiction of some kind. Whether it's sugar or whether it's like something else could be like.
- [14:14]
Annie Elise
Well, isn't that why they say too in treatment, like once you, if you're an AA or Al Anon or whatever you're in, how you're not supposed to get into a relationship for a certain period of time too, because you would just substitute that addiction with something else. I think that that is a pattern.
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Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Yeah. And someone here says Dakota moved on from drugs to women. That's his addiction. This one's Erica says ABC canceled one of the bachelorettes for a blackface photo from her college days. So this should pull this. I mean, yeah, if they've already have. If they've already done this, this is like a no brainer to me. There should be no reason this is going on television right now. This should be absolutely canceled. And I didn't think they would, but now I honestly believe that they might.
- [14:53]
Annie Elise
No, I think so too. I mean, first and foremost, I think they are again in crisis mode from what was happening earlier this week. Because There were the two separate incidents, right. The 20, 23 one and then the one from, excuse me. Either one month ago or two months ago where she allegedly choked him with a necklace. He hit her in the car. I think as well there was something. We don't know all the details about that, but I think they were in crisis mode, thinking, like, we're gonna go forward with the season. Nothing's come to light, like, in terms of actual charges or things like that. And he, I think, recanted, from my knowledge, what he had initially called the police and said. He then took it back. But now it's like everybody knows what happens during the season. They know who she chose. They know she went back to Dakota. They know now what's happening in real time. So it's. I think you got to cut your losses now at this point and just move on.
- [15:40]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
But I think also that, you know, that they're having crisis meetings in PR and Disney and Hulu and all this right now, talking about, we go forward with this, they've got a whole group room full of people who are smarter than us. But this thing. Okay, then we go forward. This is the pros, this is the cons. And as far as I can see right now, just being an observer who has never watched the Bachelor or Bachelorette ever, I. I am not going to watch this. And even though it would be, you know, I'll probably get snippets from it all over the Internet if it does air. But there's. This is way worse than. Than airing it. This is going to be bad if they air it. And you know that they're just. And then. But it also gives me the. The look to see that they did this on purpose. They knew who they were hiring. They knew what she did. And. And don't forget this. And I said at the beginning, mom talked. The. The show on Hulu did not get greenlit until she got arrested. It was shelved. And they said this before they were gonna do the show. They shelved it because, like, it's going to be boring. Then she gets arrested. And then they greenlit it. So that's. So that's. I think they're going to do it.
- [16:38]
Annie Elise
Yeah, they may. I mean, at this point, though, just playing devil's advocate for a moment, I could see a world in which all. Even this video, Obviously, that's from 2023. They started filming for the pilot. They paused production for whatever it was, six or seven months, then resumed. And then season one goes. She went to treatment during that time, too, as far as I understand. So I could see the Bachelor network being like, you know what? She had a tough time. She's looking for love. She did go to treatment back then. She's trying to rebuild. She has all this fame and notoriety. She's doing good things. She's transparently Herself and authentically herself. Like let's allow her to do this thinking that, you know, cancel culture shouldn't be as strong as it once was. Potentially that there's opportunity to like rebuild and reform. But now with this, even though that is still from the 2023 incident, there is a new incident as well that happened. I think it's like even if you were giving the benefit of the doubt, there's just too much, there's too much going on now to where in good conscious you can platform somebody like this and reward bad behavior.
- [17:42]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
But that's social media in a nutshell as it is today. It's more. As I've been on this YouTube journey for five, six years now, I'm seeing it more and more and more that the worst of us, the worst disgusting people, have some of the biggest followings and is growing because they are. You're watching something you shouldn't be seeing. You remember when we were kids, our parents, when we saw a guy with one arm, they're like, don't stare. That's. We get to stare now. We get to stare, but we don't get to have the judgment back. And so people who are sharing their children on the Internet where they're like feed them nothing but absolute. When their houses are disgusting and they're like rage baiting all that or they're abusing their children or they are, or they are themselves shittiest people on earth, we are rewarding that. That as a society is something that. How did we get here? This is the crazy. I've never seen this in all my years. This is. We've had reality television for 20 years, but nothing like this.
- [18:30]
Annie Elise
I think it's because we. Even though influencer culture has been around for a while back in what like 2015, it was more blog centered. It wasn't like you had some of the family vloggers, but it wasn't as big as it is now. And with that has been, of course course inherently a lot of younger people getting served up on these platforms and presenting themselves. And with that it's more immature decision making. It's irresponsible decisions. And it's made us, I think as a whole desensitized to a lot of what we normally would see. I remember, like, here's a perfect example. Things don't necessarily always evolve and get worse. It's more like you get more exposure to them and so you understand the bad things. But there's like a clip from 7th Heaven which I'm going to date myself because I used to watch seventh Heaven when I was, like, in middle school. And it's where, like, the mom is confides in her husband how she had smoked pot once before. And it's like the scary music and the sad music. And I remember too, when that episode came out, it was like, oh, they're pushing the boundaries. They're talking about things. And now people repost it on TikTok because it's like, so it's cringe almost to be like, okay, we're poking fun. It's not so serious because now people are exposing their lives in such a way. And again, these irresponsible young decisions to where you're becoming desensitized as you're consuming this, to everything that's going on. So it's like people are upping the ante and people are doing worse and worse and worse. And now it's like, you see this video that just came out for what it is. She's clearly enraged. She has zoned out completely. And she's not even looking at anything in her. He even says at one point, like, your child's right here. Your child's right here. And she, like, keeps just throwing and swinging and then wraps it all around. And like I said, you hear the child crying and she still doesn't stop. And it's like now that you are facing face to face with something like that, you can't write it off or be desensitized to it. Like, it's black and white staring you in the face. This is bad. This is really bad. And if ABC doesn't pull it, I. I would be honestly very surprised.
- [20:28]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Okay, well, let's. Let's show it. So people who haven't seen it.
- [20:32]
Annie Elise
I'm not going to look. You go ahead. I'm not going to look.
- [20:34]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
You haven't seen it or you don't want to see?
- [20:35]
Annie Elise
I've seen it. I don't want to see it again. And once is enough.
- [20:38]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Okay, one second. I'm going to play it, guys. Trigger warning. This is abuse you're going to watch.
- [20:42]
Podcast Host Annie Elise
But this is the night of this episode of Serial. Lessly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are all things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could Save on car insurance, Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.
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- [23:42]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Yeah, look, this is cool. Physical abuse.
- [23:47]
Annie Elise
Yeah. Yeah. See Taylor, this is all you do. It's the only thing you know how to do.
- [23:58]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Holy.
- [24:02]
Annie Elise
Let me go. Stop.
- [24:05]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Dude. Leave me alone. Oh my God. Your daughter is right here. Oh my God. Oh my gosh. He's trying to stop her from throwing the stools at the daughter, by the way.
- [24:23]
Annie Elise
Yeah, yeah.
- [24:25]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
And as you hear the baby crying at the end, so It's. Hold on, let me remove it, Annie. All right, it's gone. So for those who haven't seen it, like, that's he. If you watch it. And I'm not gonna see the show it again. But you watch it. She's throwing from her dominant hand, and he's blocking it from trying to hit the kid all three times. I don't. She's not trying to hit her child. Right.
- [24:44]
Annie Elise
She's trying to throw the stools at him. But I think on the third one. And again. I only watched it once. She doesn't even drop it. She holds it, and it's like the weight of the stool swings around, and her daughter's behind her on the couch, and the leg hits her. And then he's like. She starts crying, and Taylor still is going after Dakota and not going to her daughter.
- [25:02]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
And it's like. And don't forget, there's probably another five minutes after that video that we don't even see. See, we don't. I think eventually he gets her outside or locks her in the garage. Like, he gets her into the garage. Likely probably had to physically put her in there, which is why he doesn't show that, Which. Because he'd be like. Because then they're saying, oh, look. Because the Taylor, Frankie, Paul stands who are out there, and there's still many of them. Okay? There's still so many of them are gonna be like, look, he touched her. But if that was happening to me and there was a child in the room, I would physically remove you from the room. I don't care. I would put you in a headlock. I would get you out of the house because you're a danger to yourself.
- [25:33]
Annie Elise
Or you pick up the child and you take them away and, like, get in the car and go somewhere else. Like, you've got to split the two of them up at that point. Because somebody is just not thinking rationally, which I know. This was the same incident as the body cam footage. Right. Am I remembering correctly? Didn't she. Also because she was intoxicated or perhaps on substances, didn't she wet herself in that footage?
- [25:54]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
She pissed her pants. She was. She had already. Or Unless he got her out and then she had to go pee and she just. Or Peter pants in the garage. We don't know when it happened, but this is the night the cops showed up. That's the outfit she's wearing. We have to. We also have to talk about, though, the fact that he held onto this footage till this moment. We have to say why this moment? Is it because she's about to become the most. One of the most famous people? And he doesn't like that. What is his motivation for this right now? Why not release it a week after it happened? Why not release it when she got the show for Mom Talk? Why now?
- [26:24]
Annie Elise
I think he's been trying to protect her. Even this most recent incident that happened again, I don't know if it was one month ago or two months ago, where she reportedly choked him with the necklace and they were fighting in the car and all that, he called 911, and then she begged him to change his story, and he did. So I think it goes back to this, like, toxic cycle between the two of them where they love each other and they want to be together, but then they hate each other and they're protecting each other. And so I think for years, he has probably not shared a lot of the details that have truly gone on, and maybe vice versa. Maybe there's stuff she's protected him from as well. But now I think, because I don't know if it's because she's going to go on the show and be popular, because I think people are already like, the smear campaign is already happening, even though there are stands. I think truly my belief is because in these interviews this week, as she's been on the press circuit for the Bachelorette, she's alluding to people not knowing the full story and that he is the primary abuser. And so I think that this may have been done in a way to be like, you know what? Once and for all, fuck you. Let's show people your true colors and what you really did. And I don't know if you saw this. I don't remember it from last season, but I did see a clip of it either on my Instagram or on Tick Tock last night of Demi from last season when she's calling Taylor out. And I don't know if it was the reunion or an episode, I can't remember where, she's like. And she basically says, like, well, what do you want me to tell the truth right now about all the stuff you do with Dakota and all this? And, like, I'm not gonna do it because I don't. And she says the child's name, which I'm not gonna say. She's like, I'm not gonna do it because I want to protect your child. But let's talk about what you do and how, like, everything you've done against him. And I think people are now resurfacing that clip to be like, oh, this is a pattern where she has been doing this. And like. And Demi was calling it out. And I'm not a demise stand, don't get me wrong. But, like, I think that a lot of people have been perhaps protecting her and keeping her secrets. His as well.
- [28:13]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
At the very minimum, Hulu and Disney's been protecting her. And that's what they said in the last article. The anonymous source, which is probably a lot of the girls in there, are saying, Disney won't allow us to talk about this. His Hulu is saying, no, we're protecting. Taylor is the star of the show, so we're gonna protect her. And they're like, you know what? No more of this. We're not protecting her anymore. And they said, well, we're gonna stop filming because that's all the power they have now. They would be smart to say, okay, well, we'll continue filming. But if they contractually obligate Hulu to talk about it and not selectively or deceptively edit anything that's happened, because what the Hulu will do is say, okay, let's continue. Film it. Cool, cool. You could talk about it, but then they'll edit it out.
- [28:51]
Annie Elise
That's the thing. It does seem like all. And who knows what the truth is, right? I mean, you and I both know people can mask everything that's going on. But it does seem like the girls have all come together to make the decision of, we're pausing production. We're not going to film until, like, because of the situation. Which what would be great in this moment is if they collectively said, to your point, like, look, we will pick back up cameras and film. You need to allow us to address this. You. We also, part of the stipulation is that you help and maybe foot the bill even to get Taylor and treatment. And then we can talk about how, like, warning signs. We can talk about the process, what's gone on, like, how this has affected us and her and all these things that get her the help she needs. And then we'll film and, like, do something responsible with the power you have. This is the number one show on Hulu. They carry so much power. Have we ever seen a show in which, at Four Seasons, with people this young, they're EPs on every episode, Never. The amount of power they carry and how strong their voices with network decisions, they could certainly make demands like that.
- [29:53]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
And they are. There's, like, I think most of them are executive producers on the show. And then Taylor Frankenbault came out yesterday. Like, I don't even know what that is. She. I just said that.
- [30:01]
Annie Elise
I was like, she's girl. Yeah. I was like, girl. You've got like. She got to know what that means. And even though you are an episode, you don't get say over the final cut or the edits. That's not how it works. It's like you just get the EP credit, you get a little bit extra percentage of the, you know, of a fee based on, like earrings and royalties and all this stuff. But it's like, yeah, when she. I saw that too, where she's like, yeah, I didn't even know until I saw it in the episode. I'm like, first of all, then you need to fire your agent. But also, like, it doesn't look good that you're, like, playing dumb. You know, like, you're you. You should be more responsible than that.
- [30:32]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
I don't know. Very dumb. But someone pointed out in a comment below too that after that fight that you saw, I. I would walk away from that. Okay. I'm not saying everybody's strong enough to do that. Abusive situations are very nuanced. I understand that there's a lot of psychological that goes on, but that's like, that's before they even had a baby together. Like, they went on to have a baby and then have been probably volatilely like, fighting like this for years and years and years, and they just.
- [30:56]
Annie Elise
Very sad.
- [30:57]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Either they like it, which is really weird to me.
- [31:00]
Annie Elise
I think they do.
- [31:00]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
I feel like, yeah, I think they're addicted.
- [31:02]
Annie Elise
I think they're addicted to each other. And it's real because, yeah, it's very. It's very sad. But that's why she needs to just remove herself. Not by going and filming a new show for four weeks where she's dating 30 men. She needs to remove herself, go into treatment, not for substances, but like self reflection and like, work on things. She has so much baggage and things that she's overcoming personally. Finding out she has two half siblings, the tumultuous relationship she has with her mother, even sometimes her stepfather. Like, she needs to just look inward and do some serious work because once she feels more secure and stable with herself, then she will feel stronger to walk away. And you nailed it. It is difficult to walk away in situations like this. I forget what the exact stat is. I think it's. It takes eight times before you can successfully leave an abusive situation or an abusive partner. And many times the statistic too, of people dying when they try to escape is Extremely high. And I'm not saying that he has been physically abusive against her. We have, to my knowledge, have never seen any sort of proof of that. It's more manipulative and playing with her head. But it certainly is an abusive dynamic between the two of them.
- [32:07]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
And usually what you say is really important because it's like it takes eight and that we're usually talking because women are generally the abused person in the relationship. Let's be real. That's the stat would stand for it. And so a lot of times women just have nowhere to go. They understand. I was so. And I understand why. So you're like, I've nowhere to go. And so they endure the abuse, which is terrible.
- [32:22]
Annie Elise
And with children, it's difficult. Yeah. There's so many factors.
- [32:25]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
And in this scenario, you've got Dakota, who is dependent on Taylor for his fame, his money, his social media presence. He leeched off of first. No one knew who Dakota was before Taylor. He wasn't. He wasn't a famous influencer. He didn't have a lot of following. And now he's dad Talk and he's big and famous, and that's all because of her. So the dynamic shifted. He wants to be or wants her in this. In his circumference, because it only helps him and he has the magic without her. Yeah, exactly.
- [32:51]
Annie Elise
Yeah. He's not relevant without her. Just like, what's his face. Jesse's husband isn't relevant without her.
- [32:56]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Which one's Jesse? Who's got. Husband's got a really small face.
- [32:59]
Annie Elise
Jesse is the one who had all the plastic surgery.
- [33:02]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Yeah. Her husband's the one that is. She's the one.
- [33:04]
Annie Elise
She's the one who. Who, like, dubbed himself as, like, founder of dad Talk. And he's like, oh, yeah. So cringe.
- [33:09]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
I watched three episodes with my wife because I had to figure out which ones because there was three.
- [33:13]
Annie Elise
No, I know. You were. You and I were texting. You're all, how do people watch this? I'm all, I watch.
- [33:18]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
There's so many people do. Because it is a train wreck. We are watching things we. We don't see normally. And it's something that you're like, I. I can't take my eyes off this because it's so abnormal. And the thing is, these ladies are all rewarded, including Dakota, Dad Talk and all these guys and Chase and everybody else. They are all rewarded. The more messy they are. So they are. They know that too. So if they get. If they come in, if they swear at each other and get In a big fight on camera. They know they're going to get more screen time. That's the only way they're going to do it. Because if they're normal and nice, they're not going to get screen time. No one gives a about that. So think about that like that's what we're rewarding.
- [33:51]
Annie Elise
No, I know. Yeah. And again, not that they're children. They're obviously not. But they're young. They're in their late 20s, early 30s, so certainly old enough to be knowing right from wrong and making sound decisions. But also, and you could probably speak to this more clearly than I can, growing up Mormon. They obviously grew up at a very accelerated rate. They started having children very young. Many of them were abused. They got married very young. So I think that their minds can easily be molded. So when you have producers in your ear and you haven't fully formed into an adult, like maybe a normal person who was outside of the church would have on their trajectory, and that's not shame Mormons at all. It's just, you know, the way they grew up at an accelerated rate. It's like I could see where there's the producers encouraging the chaos in their ears. They're loving the social media. It's just a huge recipe for disaster.
- [34:38]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Yeah. Updates here. Taylor, Frankie Paul is now dealing with her ex, Dakota Mortensen, asking the court for restraining order against her. And also people are saying that TMZ is saying that it is canceled. I don't see that here yet.
- [34:51]
Annie Elise
Go to abc. Maybe they put out a statement.
- [34:53]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
One second here. ABC News or ABC here.
- [34:57]
Annie Elise
I'll search on my end, too. It's TMZ canceled Bachelorette. Let's see. Well, that's. That's at least some good news because. Oh, yeah, here we go. TMZ article here. I'll send it to you in the private chat on here because I don't know how to share my screen. Let me see. Let me send you the link.
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- [35:25]
Annie Elise
I didn't even read it, but just. I got it.
- [35:27]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
I got it. Here we go. Okay, cool. Let me just get rid of this. Put this up.
- [35:34]
Annie Elise
That's good that they cancel it. That should hopefully show the precedent that this isn't acceptable.
- [35:38]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Yep, this is it. Because again, if you reverse the roles in this scenario, it wouldn't even got to. She would. Mom Talk wouldn't even have been a show. Like, Sorry. It wouldn't have been a show. And I think the girls can still
- [35:48]
Annie Elise
continue, but not with her.
- [35:49]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Yeah, I think they have to. TMZ learn. ABC is pulling the plug on Taylor Frankie's policies in the Bachelorette amid fresh claims of domestic abuse. Disney Entertainment spokesperson tells us in light of the newly released video just surfaced today, we have made the decision to not move forward with the new season of Bachelorette. At this time. Our focus is on supporting the family. The network dropped the hammer Thursday today on the upcoming season. Source connected to the Bachelorette tells us no one at ABC had seen the video before TMZ posted it. Damn. So as we first reported to. Okay, so that's all we really need to know there. It's done. It's over.
- [36:21]
Annie Elise
Which, you know what? That makes complete sense. And because also every. The spoilers are out there to where everybody again, they knew who she ended up with. The engagement to Doug, how she then went back to. He came out in January, but she went back to Dakota. So it's like for them to even release it, I get the production costs were high and so they were going to try to recoup a lot of that money. So it's like, oh, even though everybody already knows how it ends, let's release it. But now it's like, now we really can't release it. So it's like there's just no.
- [36:46]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
I think there's a case for them to sue her for her behavior online. The. Remember the video she just released of the guy with his shoulder in the video? I bet you that was just Hulu getting this guy back in to say, hey, just get in this video, do
- [36:58]
Annie Elise
this so we can know. I would argue, too. I mean, in a lot of the stuff I've done, there's usually a morality clause. And so I would imagine if there is a morality clause in hers, that they could probably recoup a big percentage, if not all, of whatever she was paid to do this.
- [37:17]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
I don't know. At very minimum, they can recoup, but they're. They're losing production value. Like the production cost probably in the
- [37:23]
Annie Elise
four weeks of production and flights and the mansion and.
- [37:26]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Yeah, yeah, like flights. There's like 25, 30 people plus crew. Like, we're talking probably half a million. $800,000 for production of this size, easily. Oh, plus, plus where they stay.
- [37:36]
Annie Elise
Way more. Josh, are you out of your mind?
- [37:38]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Millions and millions. Give me some numbers. Crunch it for me.
- [37:43]
Annie Elise
500. Come on. Okay. How much does an average season of the Bachelorette or the Bachelor cost in production?
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Annie Elise
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- [40:45]
Annie Elise
Because then also think the whole cast, the 30 guys are also getting paid. And they're not getting paid much. They're probably getting paid, I don't know, $10,000 each. But it adds up.
- [40:52]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Yep.
- [40:52]
Annie Elise
Okay. The realistic range is 10 to 20 million dollars per season, roughly 2 million dollars per episode.
- [41:00]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
I was way off. Holy shit. 10 to 20 million dollars. And again, that's pocket change for Disney.
- [41:07]
Annie Elise
But here's something else I thought about Too the other day as like all this was starting to emerge. She's kind of been chaos and a loose cannon from day one. But it hasn't mattered because it's the number one show on Hulu. But this is going to seriously damage any future projects. Not only because from like a perspective of, you know, cancel culture and not rewarding bad behavior, but because she's unreliable that you can't, you don't know what you're signing up for when you hire her. When they, when ABC hired her, they were probably like, great, this is going to boost our ratings because our ratings have been in the toilet. It's going to be a whole new like generation of people watching. We'll foot the bill. It's gonna be great. But because she is so self sabotaging and chaotic and all these things, it's like they took that risk and now obviously they're going to be in the hole. Call it 30 mil maybe to where it's like, I can't imagine other brands even once this dies down in years will want to step out and work with her just because it's like there's no guarantee. It's such a loose cannon.
- [42:05]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
The als. The thing that's also going to happen is because if you watched episode 10, you see that her mom and sister showed up with the kids to take her to the airport, which again, she was bringing her kids at least for a little bit of a visit so they could say, you know, whatever. I thought she wasn't gonna see her kids for like eight weeks, but apparently she brought a kids and then she didn't want to go because the night before her and you know, Dakota were getting together. Now that when you see that and, and the, the things that have been given to this woman for literally what does Taylor, Frankie Paul offer to the world? Give it to me. Nothing. She does nothing, man. She's good looking. Or was. And that's it. That is.
- [42:38]
Annie Elise
Yeah, I'm definitely not a Taylor hater at all. But like I never really understood the fandom around her. I personally. And like, I don't know what everybody's opinions, you guys can tell me in the comments. I personally really like Jesse. I really like I Whitney. I'm starting to like this season. I really like Miranda. Like I just never saw the allure of Taylor. And I get it, she was like the one who kind of like catapulted the show and started it and got the group together. So of course she's the lead and the star. But in terms of like the Energy and the personality and her having that like star factor. I never saw it. I never understood the obsession, really.
- [43:16]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
The obsession is she's the drama. She's the, she's the where it all hinges from. They don't, they walk in eggshells around her. They gave her the more, the more power she had, the more dramatic it got to because she knew she can get away with more because she was the leader, right. And she could kick people out of mom talk if she wanted to and all that kind of stuff. But this is also what I think is going to happen and you heard it here. She's going to lose almost everything because of this because nobody's going to want to work with her. She's not going to get ad reads and sponsorships for Instagram. She's going to continue on and she's still going to have her fans. But I think this is, she's never going to experience the level of success that she's been handed to this point. I think it's over for her.
- [43:51]
Annie Elise
Who even though cares about that. Dakota's filing for sole custody and this wasn't even his child in the video. I bet you anything her first baby daddy is also going to be filing for custody. She's losing her kids. She's losing her kids.
- [44:04]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
And I wouldn't like.
- [44:06]
Annie Elise
Yeah, the brand deals are one thing because it helps you take care of your family, gives you this lifestyle. But like that aside, that, that is bigger, you are losing access to your children. And like, you know how it works with dcf, DCSF and all of them. It's like once you get that stain on you, it is very difficult to come back from that.
- [44:26]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
And let's not forget that she's on probation right now and if it's proved that she has done this again, she could go to prison. Like, I'm not sure how that you don't think so.
- [44:35]
Annie Elise
I don't. I, I don't know. I, I didn't even know she was still on probation. But very possible. Well, but so yeah, this though video is from that incident. So he would have to because I think with this most recent incident from like a month or two months ago and him withdrawing his accusation, I think he would have to re. Accuse, which it seems like maybe he will now that he is filing for sole custody. And then if she gets charged for that new one, then maybe something will happen.
- [45:03]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
I also might think that at some point he's going to have to take his foot off her neck because he's like, look, I've won at this point. And I don't think he's going to want to like, I don't think he's going to want to put her in
- [45:13]
Annie Elise
the room on and like they need to get away from each other. He's equally dirty and like plays dirty and like his like sinister little smirk when he did sleep with her and like get the hell out of here. Like he's super manipulative and dangerous in that regard. Where maybe he's not physically violent that we know of or that we've seen, but he definitely is emotionally abusive.
- [45:34]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Absolutely 100 agree with you on that. And again, I know this type of behavior. I grew up with this type of behavior, Annie. Like the ability to you to weaponize, like to trigger somebody, you know how to do it. And I'm not. And I'm just saying that is a form of abuse. To know what to do to trigger and push someone's buttons is a very, very high form of abuse. And it's like because the person is. But again, it's never going to be excuse to be as violent or violent at all. You've got to be an adult. You're 31 or 32 now. At some point you've got to grow up and start like, like I, I, I've seen my escalation as a human being over the last 46 years and I have changed completely from when I was 25 to when I was 35 into now. And I've changed completely. It doesn't seem like she has changed at all, if not getting worse.
- [46:17]
Annie Elise
I know, but that's what sometimes fame and money will do because it gives you the opportunity and the access, I
- [46:24]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
don't know, become addicted to the fame which Dakota's fame and the money. I don't know if he makes a ton of money on social media, but he probably makes more than just working a regular job, that's for sure.
- [46:32]
Annie Elise
And for him, it may not even be the money that's important. The amount of clout he's getting because he's getting recognition from females and he's probably sleeping around. That seems to be what matters the most to him. Like, he's not dripping in designer and doesn't seem to be caring about the financials. It's more of like, oh, it's giving me the social clout that I want and the social media presence and I can get into any girl's pants I want. It's like that seems to me his motivation.
- [46:52]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
And I don't get this about some of these dad Talk guys like Chase and Dakota, like, these guys are just, Chase has three DUIs. He's got a warrant out for his arrest. And there's so many people online are like, I, I do him like, what? You've seen what he's like. You've seen what Dakota's like on tv. How are you gonna sleep with this guy? He's a disgusting pig. I don't understand it.
- [47:10]
Annie Elise
No, it's unbelievable.
- [47:12]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Oh, my gosh.
- [47:14]
Annie Elise
Well, I gotta jump, but thank you for having me on here.
- [47:16]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
Thanks, Danny. I appreciate it.
- [47:17]
Annie Elise
I'll talk soon again. We need to do this more.
- [47:19]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
I'll come out. I'll come out your way. It's warmer.
- [47:22]
Annie Elise
Okay. Okay, sounds good. Bye, guys.
- [47:24]
Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
See ya.
- [47:26]
Annie Elise
All right, so you just heard us break down our thoughts and views. Obviously, this is all still very raw. This is just now happening in real time. I am glad that ABC pulled the plug. I think that that was the responsible decision. But curious to know what you think. And as I mentioned in the beginning of this episode, if you also follow pop culture stuff like this, whether it's Housewives, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, whatever it is, you know, the Justin and Blake Baldoni or Justin Blake Baldoni, Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively stuff. And you want to hear my take on any of that or just daily pop culture events, let me know. It, of course, would not live on this podcast, so don't worry. It's not like I would substitute our true crime cases for that type of content. I would probably have it live elsewhere. But just curious if you guys are even interested in anything like that. You can let me know in the comment section on Spotify or send me a DM on Instagram underscore Annie Elise and just tell me like, yeah, we definitely would want more of that. Obviously there's not really a way on Apple, if you're listening to this on Apple, to let me know, unless you want to leave me a review and let me know in the review section. But definitely I'm curious to know if that is something because I. I mean, it's stuff I follow personally and watch and consume. So it's like I could talk about it at any moment throughout the day. And I obviously do have a lot of thoughts about everything going on in pop cultures, whether it's stuff at the Oscars, stuff with, you know, reality stars. So if that's like, you let me know and maybe we will start up a different type of show where we have, it's a little bit more light hearted and topical and we can talk through things like that. And again, it wouldn't be living on this podcast. So don't worry, nothing's going away with what we do here and the true crime cases. But anyway, let me know your thoughts and hope you are having a fantastic Thursday and I will be back with
- [49:13]
Podcast Host Annie Elise
you on Monday with an all new deep dive into a case.
- [49:16]
Annie Elise
Until then, protect your kids. That's all I can say. All right, bye.
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Josh (Dad Challenge Podcast Host)
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Annie Elise
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Annie Elise
Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments.
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Annie Elise
Okay, one judgment anyway.
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Annie Elise
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