← Serialously with Annie Elise
Serialously with Annie Elise
397: Still Missing at Sea, 48 Stab Wounds & Family Annihilation Plot
00:57:06
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- [00:00]
A
Yes, you can. A five minute, quick and easy calorie burning workout. Give it a try. Come join our sweat sesh on TikTok. Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Foreign. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial as Lee with me, your host, Annie Elise. Happy Thursday. I hope you're having a good week so far. We're almost at the weekend, so yay for that. And happy belated Mother's Day to all the mothers who are listening. Let's see, a lot has been happening this week and interestingly enough, there's been, like, not a ton of updates in cases we've been covering, but a lot of brand new cases that are going on right now. And like some really disturbing, odd, obscure cases. And look, I know we talked about hantavirus a little bit last week. So many of you commented on it with, like, not only your opinion, but what you've heard, you've been following it. It obviously has progressively gotten, I guess, I don't know if you would say worse. I guess. So it's evolved over the last week. So. So I am going to be releasing a bonus episode most likely tomorrow with a full timeline of all of that, everything that has come up, you know, throughout this situation, all the way up until today, whenever I record it this afternoon because now the cruise has disembarked. There's more illnesses, there's more information, and we have a lot to talk about. So I know it's not obviously like in our wheelhouse of true crime and the normal things that we talk about, but because of how many of you not only showed interest but were asking for more information and just still feel a little bit unclear about what's going on, we figured, you know, might as well put all of the information that we have gathered together and give you an episode. So that will be coming out tomorrow. But remember, you're going to want to make sure you're following the podcast so that you don't miss it. I also can tell right now my voice is getting hoarse. That sucks. That means I am probably going to be sick soon, which. Fuck that. All right, so headline highlights today, everybody. Welcome to the show. A brand new guest that we haven't never had before that I am really excited for you to meet. Her name is Ami o'. Brien. Hello.
- [02:39]
B
Welcome. It's so nice to meet you.
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A
It's very nice to meet you. You know, I feel like I've known you my whole life.
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B
Well. And I feel like you must feel very close to me. To come in sick and just chat with me so closely.
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A
Literally, as I'm talking about hantavirus.
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B
Should I be pulling out a MAS right now? Like, what's happening?
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A
I haven't been about around any rodents lately. Except Emmy. I was gonna say, to my knowledge. Hello, welcome. First, we're not gonna get into it yet. Did you do your homework?
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B
I did.
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A
Okay. For those of you who listened last week, I know some of you DM'd me and said you did your homework, too.
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B
Oh, I'm excited that you're, like, very
- [03:18]
A
excited to talk through this together. I did assign some homework last week on Thursday. I've never done that before, but I was feeling very Teacher Appreciation Week. And the homework was to watch the Netflix docu series Should I Marry a Murderer? Because I had watched it. I have a lot of thoughts on it. And so I gave Amy here some homework. All of you listening or watching some homework. So I hope you guys did the work, because we're going to talk about it after we get through these cases today. Yeah. So are you ready?
- [03:48]
B
I am ready.
- [03:49]
A
Well, I want to start with actually an update in a case, because I feel like this that's going on in the Bahamas is like the case that is not going away and just keeps getting shadier and shadier. Which when we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, I remember, I said, I think, like, straight to camera. I was like, look, I will pay for your airfare, your hotel, get your ass back to the Bahamas, look for your missing wife. Which, spoiler alert, he still hasn't hit me up to take me up on that offer. Which that's not a surprise because I think he is trying to not go back to the Bahamas for obvious reasons. But anyways, you probably remember us talking about the disappearance of Lynette Hooker, the woman who vanished in the Bahamas back in April. She was on this evening little boat cruise on a dinghy with her husband, Brian, and according to him, fell off the dinghy into the water, and it was so dark, he couldn't find her. And at the time, it was described as basically just this horrific accident that took place out at sea. But now the case is starting to feel a lot different because there have been a lot of new developments along the way and a specific new one that came out this week. And it's something that has a lot of people raising their eyebrows because now authorities have officially seized Brian's little boat as evidence. So really quickly, just to refresh everybody again on this case, Lynette disappeared on April 4, near Elbow Cay in the Bahamas. Brian says that the two of them were heading back to their sailboat, named the Soulmate, on one of those little dinghy, kind of like inflatable looking type boats. And Lynette fell overboard into the darkness. She. He couldn't reach her. He also said that the water was pretty rough and that when she fell over the dinghy, she had been holding the key to the dinghy. So once she hit the water, the engine shut off as well. He said that he had tried searching for her in the dark, but eventually he lost sight of her completely. So then he had to paddle himself back to the shore alone. Which, getting back to the shore, it took him almost nine hours. But when he finally made it back at around 4am he did call the authorities and he told them what happened. So after that, search crews spent days looking for Lynette. They were searching by boat, by air, all means that they possibly could. But unfortunately, she was never found. And as more details started coming out, a lot of people online just really started questioning the integrity of what he was saying, his story. Was it really adding up? Not necessarily because there was any sort of proof that there was foul play at that point, but more so because there were just a lot of unanswered questions, questions about the timeline, about the conditions that night, and about how exactly this happened, because Brian also was the only known witness at the time, which that's huge, right? I mean, if the only witness was then paddling for nine hours, his wife just so happened to fall overboard, it's a lot of, you know, coincidental stuff. So he ultimately ended up being detained by the authorities in the Bahamas for five days, and he was questioned about the situation, but eventually he was released without charges. He also then went back to the United States, to which Lynette's daughter was wondering why he was doing that. He said it was a family emergency. But like, what family emergency is going to trump looking for your missing wife? And then once that family emergency is handled, why aren't you returning to look for her? It feels more like, you know, you don't want to get locked up in the Bahamian jail system. That's what it's feeling like to me. So last week, investigators ended up making another move that started getting people talking. The Coast Guard publicly asked for help identifying another sailboat that had reportedly been anchored right near their sailboat, the Soulmate, and anchored near it the night that Lynette disappeared. So this, of course, immediately made people wonder if the investigators were possibly trying to Find witnesses. Or maybe if they were trying to verify whether somebody else saw or heard anything at all that night, not just a witness to them getting off the boat. But maybe they saw the dinghy. Maybe they saw something. But now things with that have escalated even more because over the weekend, the U.S. coast Guard investigative Service officially seized the Soulmate itself, which, remember, that's the sailboat, not the dinghy, but like the major boat. So that's interesting because, yes, you want to seize everything as evidence. You want to start building the timeline, you want to look for any sort of whatever and just anything that will help tell the story of what happened. But could it be that they think that something happened on the Soulmate itself and maybe not on the dinghy? Maybe they did return back from dinner to the sailboat. Something happened, a fight, an argument, and he made the whole dinghy story up in the middle of the night and then paddled for nine hours. Who really knows? But obviously they're looking for something. According to the reports, the boat had left the Bahamas and actually was heading back toward the United States when all of this happened. They then decided to intercept it and they brought it into Fort Pierce, Florida. There's even footage of the boat being towed by the Coast Guard and there's drone footage just showing it sitting right there at the Coast Guard facility while the investigators are starting to process it. And I'm going to play a little bit of that video for you. Now, for those of you who are watching the video version of this, and if you're listening to the audio version, you can, of course, as always, pop over to the video version. But let me just play you some of that news coverage now with those visuals.
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C
Breaking tonight, a massive development in the mystery of the missing Michigan mother, Lynette Hooker. Her body still not found tonight. For weeks, the sailboat known as the Soulmate sat on a mooring ball in the Bahamas. Well, Tonight it's in US custody. The Coast Guard intercepting the 46 foot vessel and these exclusive images from the Drop Dead Serious podcast with Ashley Banfield allegedly showing the boat being towed into Fort Pierce, Florida. Investigators are now scouring the deck for forensic evidence, digital data, anything that could challenge the story told by Lynette's husband, Brian. Now, he claims she fell overboard from a dinghy back on April 4, but the coast Guard Investigative Service clearly widening its net now.
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A
So, honestly, this is a pretty big deal because law enforcement generally doesn't just seize an entire boat in a missing person's case unless they do believe that there can Be evidence on board. Right. So now investigators reportedly have access to GPS history, navigation records, electronics, phones, digital data, possible forensic evidence, trace evidence. I mean, really, anything and everything that could either a back up Brian's story completely and illustrate that he's telling the truth or potentially poke holes in his story. I want to be clear, though. As of right now, Brian Hooker has not been charged with any crime at all. And investigators have not publicly accused him of any crimes related to the case. But between the Coast Guard involvement and the search for nearby witnesses and now the actual seizure of the soulmate sailboat, it definitely feels like the investigators are taking a deeper look as to what really happened that night. I personally think where there's smoke, there's fire. There's nothing about this story that adds up to me. It could be a horrible, tragic accident. Yes. But again, what I'm getting caught up on is, then why aren't you returning to the Bahamas? Why are you hiding out in, you know, not, I guess, like in plain sight? Yes, but still evading going back. And as of right now, Lynette also has still not been found. So it will be interesting to see what they discover, if anything on the soulmate. Maybe there's a droplet of blood. Maybe there's a phone ping from when she was really back on the boat that night before, I would imagine he threw all of her devices overboard. If he really did do anything to her. I mean, we'll see what comes out of this. But my gut is telling me. And I could be wrong. I have been wrong once that I can think of off the top of my head about a case. I have been wrong once before. I could be wrong again.
- [11:53]
B
I was gonna say in life or about a case.
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A
About a case. Yeah, but. And maybe I've been wrong about more, but not that come to mind. But there is one that I know for a fact I was wrong about when I thought, like, the daughter was involved. And still, I will say this, though, in my defense, a lot of people do still think the daughter is involved. It was this case about this woman, Debbie Collier. She basically was found nude, burned alive in the woods. And it was ruled as self inflicted. But right before she took her life, she sent her daughter a Venmo. A Venmo with the exact dollar amount that she had in her bank account with, like, a cryptic message about a key being under the porch. Like, weird stuff like that. The daughter had money problems. The neighborhood fight her. The neighborhood heard a fight between them the night before. There was, like, a shady boyfriend in the mix. People don't typically burn themselves alive. She was seen on camera going and buying. Can't remember if it was liquor or what it was to go to a tailgate for like a big game that night and then like veered off course and when apparently took her own life in the woods. So everybody's like, something's going on here. People still think that there's something shady that went on there, but it ultimately was ruled as self harm. And so I will say I have been wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong here.
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B
I mean, I don't feel wrong. No. And like you were saying, nothing adds up. And the story doesn't add up. There's too many things that don't add up. And that's the problem. I mean, if your spouse is missing, you don't leave.
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A
No.
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B
You're doing anything you can to help aid with the investigation. You're pressing the investigators to do whatever they can. You're not peacing out.
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A
And obviously, you know, I'm just thinking about this now. This is something they obviously are going to put together in terms of timeline. I could see. Let's just say this. It took him nine hours to paddle to shore. My first question is, did he not have a cell phone? Or maybe there wasn't service out there. Okay, fine. Nine hours. So how far in comparison was that dinghy? If the shore's here, the dinghy's here, and the soulmate's here. Like, how much more time would it have taken for him to get to the sailboat from the dinghy versus the shore? Was he trying to extend it to nine hours? Like, they're gonna probably do all of the coordinates to figure out, like, again, map time of like, what happened that night. But there's something that just feels so there.
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B
We're thinking maybe something happened on the main sailboat and then maybe that he took. I know you're saying maybe the dinghy was just a made up story, but maybe he used the dinghy to dispose of her.
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A
Yes, possibly.
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B
And like, maybe that's what I was thinking. And maybe Ditch just didn't take his phone because you don't want it to track.
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A
Although that would easily be disproven because if his phone and if her phone are last pinging on the soulmate, not at the restaurant or wherever they had dinner, which I know they were doing an evening cruise. So maybe they had dinner, went back, then decided to go on an evening cruise together, like with a drink or like, I need to dig in a little bit more here, but I Mean, I think the writing's on the wall. Yeah.
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B
And I mean, obviously there's no way to know what happened, but it feels like there'd be more. I don't know. I guess this is total speculation, but you would feel like there'd be more opportunity for something to happen on a larger vessel than on a small dinghy where it's like, unless he was planning
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A
it because he knew that she was, like, upset and, like, kind of not over the relationship, but like, there was some friction in the relationship. So he's like, oh, let's go for sunset cruise. Just like, oh, let's go for a hike. I'm going to push you off the cliff. I'm going to push you off the dinghy. I mean, who knows? My voice is getting worse. I think I should start singing Smelly Cat.
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B
Well, when you first introduced me, and I mean, it's fine that that wasn't as high level. Just kidding. No, no. Before you got into that, though, I was like, going to say you're kind of like low energy today. But then as you started saying you felt sick, I felt a little guilty that I was going to call you out for that.
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A
I did yawn. Right.
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B
Now we recorded. It's true. Yeah. I thought you were just sleepy.
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A
I literally yesterday injected glutathione into my ass cheek, so I should not sick. I want a refund. Honestly, this is. This is no Smelly can't smell. I will not.
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B
Daniel, it's not your fault. Let's not ruin the vocals on the thing. God, people are like, turn.
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A
They're in their car. They're all, oh, somebody crashes right now.
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B
I did not do my homework for no reason.
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A
Okay. Oh, not case homework, but, like, the real homework that we're going to get to. You know what I think would be really fun when we get to that? If I grade you.
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B
Okay.
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A
But, like, it'll be completely subjective.
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B
Okay.
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A
Because, like, I have my opinion of what qualifies as an A versus an
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B
F with whatever your opinion is, no matter what. Perfect. Sounds like I'm set up for success.
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A
Speaking of a loser man being rejected beyond.
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B
Okay, okay.
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A
Let us let it rip, o'. Brien.
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B
Okay.
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A
All right.
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B
So this next case out of Pennsylvania started with a house fire in the middle of the night. But investigators are saying that it wasn't an accident at because according to police, a man allegedly set the home on fire after a woman living there rejected him. And details about this are just awful. So this happened in Lewistown, Pennsylvania, where police say a 40 year old man named Robert Zimmerman had gone to this home because he wanted to confess his feelings to a woman who lived in the attic apartment. Apparently, the building where he lived was divided up and rented out by multiple tenants. But according to investigators, when he got there, she rejected him. And that's when everything escalated. Witnesses reportedly told investigators that they saw Robert setting items on fire inside the first floor of the home. And then another witness said that Robert actually admitted to starting the fire. And as it spread throughout the building, witnesses said that they saw Robert eventually walk outside, stand in a nearby alley, and just watch as everything unfold, which is super creepy. It actually reminds me of that meme of that little girl where she's like, lights the building on fire, and she's just standing back watching. And inside the house, as you could imagine, people were desperately trying to survive. One man reportedly had a jump from the second story window just to escape the flames. And investigators say he suffered severe burns to his throat along with major facial injuries. Another woman was reportedly hanging out of a window trying to get away from the smoke, when she either lost consciousness or just became completely overwhelmed and fell onto the concrete below. But 44 year old brandy Felipe, the woman who rejected Robert, she never made it out. Authorities say she became trapped inside during the fire, and her death has officially been ruled a homicide caused by arson. And when you hear more about who she was, it honestly just makes this story even more heartbreaking. Reports say Brandy was an army veteran who specialized in Patriot missile systems during her military service before later becoming a truck driver. And then there's another layer to this case that people online have been really discussing. After Robert was taken into custody, police say he admitted to taking fentanyl and actually started showing signs of overdosing while he was there. He then had to be transported to the hospital before investigators could even continue questioning him. And once they were able to speak with him again, he allegedly made several incriminating statements. But he also claimed that he couldn't remember the exact moments the fire started, even though he could remember what happened right before and right after the fire, which, of course, already has people wondering whether his defense is eventually going to lean into drugs or memory issues. And another detail the investigators noted is that Robert allegedly had what they described as a strong emotional response after learning that someone had died in the fire. And people are taking that in very different ways. Some people think that it was the guilt finally setting in, and other people think that it was completely performative. And then there were others that think that drugs actually did play a Much bigger role in this whole entire situation than even what we know right now. So Robert was arrested, and at the time of this recording, his charges have not yet been announced. But honestly, this whole case feels just very unsettling because something that probably just started as a very uncomfortable and awkward situation is this man coming to profess his love to somebody within minutes gets turned deadly.
- [20:00]
A
That is so terrifying. One of my biggest fears is being burned alive. And for everybody involved, not just, unfortunately, her who she was trapped, but everybody trying to escape. Like, the poor woman and the audacity of this guy. Okay, you get rejected. So you're gonna what, like, get lit up on fentanyl and then go start a fire?
- [20:19]
B
Well, it sounds like maybe he. I'm wondering if he started taking drug or took the drugs to build the courage to go profess his love. And, like, when the rejection happened, maybe he, like, obviously reacted and give you courage. I thought it made you tired.
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A
I mean, I know it kills you, but, like.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And isn't it like heroin?
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B
That's what I mean. I felt like it was more. I don't know, but I thought it was more of like a drowsy drug. I didn't really feel like it's like a truth serum, like, where you would want to go and what interactive people
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A
do for you if you choose to get high with it. We may end up needing to cut this out if it gets flagged, but this is educational YouTube, so don't come for me. Oh, no. It says intense euphoria, deep relaxation or sedation. That's right, Pain relief. Warm, heavy body feeling and drowsiness or nodding off. But of course, the dangerous side effects are slowed or stopped breathing, loss of consciousness, vomiting, all those things.
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B
I mean, that doesn't align with setting a building on fire.
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A
No. Unless it's like just the. You, like the initial euphoria.
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B
And, like, where did you have the supplies to do that? Did you bring that? So that would question is always.
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A
Not that the drugs make. Yeah. An excuse for anything. I'm just trying to understand more, but
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B
I can't imagine, like, you're just a roommate in a building. I mean, how many of us rent or, like, live in. Has lived in shared spaces? And then it's true.
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A
It's like, what's the saying? You never know your neighbors. You never know anybody. And it's like you never know what kind of danger you could potentially be in because of a neighbor.
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B
Not that it reminded me a little bit of the story from last week, which is obviously a much different scenario, but it's just like people close to home when you're vulnerable and just feeling safe.
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A
And if I need to say it again, don't do fentanyl. Oh, God. Don't do any drugs because everything is cut with fentanyl now. And it's so scary.
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B
So terrified of that.
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A
Yeah, you can't do anything. Not that you should ever, but like, it's just a very scary thing. So don't do drugs. It's kind of crazy when you think about how much we focus on things like skin care, workouts, energy levels. For me, it's obviously like I've been on a skincare journey for a year now. Workouts, not so much. But we never think about our liver. Meanwhile, it's actually the thing doing the heavy lifting every single day. Filtering stress, processed foods, late nights, basically everything that we put into our bodies. And when your liver is overloaded, you feel it. Sluggish, brain fog, digestion issues, midday crashes, all of it adds up. But that's why I want to tell you about Dose for your liver. It's a clinically backed liver health supplement, but it's simple. It's a two ounce liquid shot that tastes like fresh squeezed orange juice. And it's not another pill or powder. And dose helps cleanse your liver of unwanted stressors and also supports daily liver function so that your body can work the way it's supposed to. And your liver is responsible for over 500 functions in your body, including energy production, digestion, even metabolism. So look, I tried it. First of all, it tastes. Tastes really freaking good. And I personally noticed feeling less sluggish and feeling more balanced throughout the day. Plus, it's zero sugar, zero junk and zero calories, which win, win, win, win, win. And it isn't just hype. DO has two double blind placebo controlled studies that show positive impacts on liver enzyme levels. So are you ready to give your liver the support that it deserves? Head to dose Daily Co Annie or enter Annie to get 35% off your first subscription. Your body does so much for you, so let's do something for it. That's D O S E D A I l y co Annie for 35% off your first month subscription. Yes you can. A five minute quick and easy calorie burning workout. Give it a try. Come join our sweat sesh on TikTok. Okay, so this next case is another one of a man where it's like, where do you even get the freaking audacity? Like, what is going on here? And when you step back and look at the full timeline, it really feels like the authorities may have stopped and intercepted a family annihilation from happening. Like literally getting there right in the nick of time. And this too, like the story Amy just shared with us, it all started with a romantic issue. This one was a breakup. So it wasn't a rejection, but, you know, adjacent to that. According to reports, 37 year old Brian Lanzim had been in a long term relationship with the mother of his two kids. And on April 29, she ended things with him over facetime. However, investigators say that that conversation escalated fast. Really, really fast. During that call, prosecutors say that Brian allegedly started making all kinds of threats, saying things like, you don't know crazy yet, and you know, if I can't have you, no one can. And then after she threatened to go to the police, Brian started texting her relentlessly making threats against her family. According to court documents, he allegedly would text her things like, if your father is there, I'm gonna have to take him out. Saying that he would, quote, leave him pulseless in the driveway. He also said, if you stand between me and my kids, I'm going to do what I need to do. So at one point, she says that she heard what sounded like a gun click, almost like it was being loaded on the other end of the call, like he was getting prepared to, you know, load his weapon, get in the car, do what he was going to do. So immediately with that, she got scared enough that she contacted the police and filed a temporary restraining order because she believed that Brian was now driving all the way from Maine to New Jersey with the intent of hurting her family, which that would have been an eight hour drive. And based on what Brian was saying to her, even though it was going to be an eight hour drive, she did not think that that was going to stop him. She said he sounded serious and that that kind of trip was not out of the question for him. And according to investigators, that's exactly what happened. Authorities say that Brian then drove the roughly eight hours from Maine to South Toms River, New Jersey, all while he was armed with multiple firearms and even a tactical vest. He also had around 15 large capacity magazines in his truck. So, like he was ready to reload, he was ready to get into a gunfight. He was wearing a tactical vest, like he was prepared to do some pretty horrific damage. He was later described too as being, quote, ready for war. Which hearing about all of the guns and the amount of ammo that he had on him, it sounds pretty accurate that you're comparing him to somebody being ready for war. Thankfully, though, at that point, the police were prepared. They already had received that phone call. They knew that there was danger possibly coming in, and so they were prepared and they were already on the scene waiting for him to arrive. And sure enough, when he did turn up at the house, that's when things turned violent. Investigators say that he drove across the lawn directly toward the officers, got out with a gun in hand, and allegedly tried forcing his way into the house. Officers, of course, confronted him, ordered him to drop his weapon, but when he refused, the officer opened fire. Brian was shot multiple times, but I guess you would say, unfortunately, in my opinion, survived. So he's now facing a massive list of charges, including attempted murder, terroristic threats, burglary, multiple weapon offenses, and unlawful possession of body armor. Now, here is where the case starts to get a bit more complicated, because prosecutors are saying that this was not just somebody spiraling after a breakup and that Brian didn't just snap and have some sort of, you know, lash out, crime of passion type things. They said that they believe that Brian intended to seriously hurt or kill his ex girlfriend's family, all so that he could get custody of their children. And in court, prosecutors also said that he had allegedly been, quote, spiraling out of control for months, especially after losing the job that he had moved to Maine for in the first place. However, we know that there's always two sides to every story or two. Defense and a prosecution. And on the other side of this, his defense attorney is trying to paint a very different picture. She says that Brian has bipolar disorder, that he has been receiving psychiatric treatment in Maine and was in the middle of a severe mental health crisis that was triggered by the breakup. And that that is what erupted into this entire scenario. Which, honestly, though, when you look at the full timeline here, that's part of why this case, I think, is not only going viral online, but also hitting hard for a lot of the people online who are researching it, reading about it, seeing it in their feedback. Because regardless of the motive, people are looking at all of this and feeling like, okay, this came dangerously close to ending an entire family in an absolute horrific way. And we have seen a lot of family annihilator cases. I mean, hello, Chris Watts is like the number one mega one, right? But very rarely do we hear about the police intervening exactly when they should and stopping that from taking place. Can you imagine what would have happened if the police either said, okay, come into the station tomorrow morning, we'll file a report, we'll give You a restraining order, but, you know, there's not much more we can do. Call us if he breaks it. Or if they just decided not to go on the scene that night at all. This could have and probably would have ended so differently. So I think that this is a blessing in disguise. I mean, I kind of wish she didn't survive the gunfire, if I'm being real with you. But, I mean, the fact that he had the commitment to. To drive the full eight hours to wipe out this family, it's incredibly scary. Mental health crisis or not, it's just diabolical.
- [30:35]
B
I mean, this was such a godsend that all the right things happened at the right time. Like, the mother, like, knew to call and not waste any time. The police did what they were supposed to do, but. And lately we've been seeing cases where these people who are on a rampage go by multiple homes and, like. And it's saying, if he's gonna plan to kill the family so he can get custody, who knows where he would have stopped?
- [31:00]
A
How far you go down that line.
- [31:02]
B
Yeah.
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A
So that you are the one, the last one left.
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B
Because if he was that arm and,
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A
like, no offense, but, like, what do you think you're gonna do having custody? Like, that is not the answer here, you know? Oh, my God. So scary.
- [31:14]
B
That is scary. Yeah. Thank God everyone's safe.
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A
Yeah.
- [31:17]
B
All right, so this next case out of Washington is one that a lot of people have been talking about because almost nothing makes sense at first glance. You've got a frantic 911 call in the middle of the night, a scene inside a home that investigators described as extremely violent, surveillance footage that raised a ton of questions, and a story that police now believe was something entirely different than what was first reported. This happened in Covington, Washington, involving a couple named Jody and Kyle Cathcart. And when I tell you the details coming out of these documents are horrifying. They are extremely horrifying. So this all started on May 1, when Kyle called 911 saying that someone had broken into their home and attacked both him and Jody. Deputies arrived and found Jody dead inside a bedroom. Kyle also had injuries, but were very minor compared to the severity of what had been done to Jody. Because while Kyle had some small cuts around his eye and on his abdomen, prosecutors say Jody had been stabbed 48 times. Almost immediately, investigators started feeling like things just weren't fully adding up. They looked at how incredibly violent Jody's injuries were compared to Kyle's, much more minor injuries, and that there didn't appear to be Obvious signs of a forced break in. So as detectives started looking closer at the scene and trying to piece together what actually happened inside that house, they decided to take a look at the family's ring camera footage. And according to police, that footage did show somebody leaving the house dressed in dark clothing. But there was no footage showing anyone entering the home beforehand. Investigators also noted in court documents that they found blood on the garage keypad and pointed out that somebody familiar with the home and the garage code could have gone in the house and left that way without ever even appearing on the camera, which obviously raised a huge red flag if this was supposedly some random intruder breaking in. But even more suspicious, investigators say that the person seen leaving matched Kyle's height and build. And from there, the entire home invasion story started unraveling fast. Investigators say that Kyle eventually admitted that he had staged this entire scene to make it look like a burglary gone wrong. Investigators also found that dark clothing that was allegedly seen in the ring footage was tossed into a neighbor's trash can nearby. So now the possible motive here is also something people have really been talking about, because prosecutors claimed that Kyle had been lying to Jody for years about receiving a massive financial payout. In fact, according to court documents, Jody allegedly believed Kyle was about to receive around $6 million from a lawsuit settlement. But investigators say that money didn't actually even exist, and they believe he killed her before she could find out the truth. And then there's another detail from the court documents that has really stuck with people following this case, because investigators referenced an incident from last year, looking back, that now people are seeing very differently. According to investigators, Kyle had told police about an incident in 2024 where he had taken the over the counter sleep aid Zequil one night and then woke up the next morning to Jody telling them that he had apparently tried to smother her in his sleep using a pillow wrapped in Saran Wrap. Now, to be clear, investigators have not yet said that this incident was directly connected to the case. But ever since that information became public, a lot of people have been wondering whether it may have been an earlier warning sign that something much darker was happening in that home long before all of this unfolded, or if medication could have induced some kind of weird sleep behavior that Kyle really didn't remember when waking up up. The couple also had three young adoptive children under the age of eight living in the home. And prosecutors say the children were in the home during the attack, which makes this whole thing even more devastating. So Kyle Cathcart is currently being held on a 60 million dollar bond and is facing first degree murder charges with a deadly weapon enhancement. So as more court documents are coming out, people are paying very close attention to this case because the allegations here are obviously just very disturbing and kind of make you go like, what in the actual hell just happened?
- [35:36]
A
I have a lot of questions about this case. First. Yeah, what the hell happened? Why was his bail amount set so high if he doesn't have money?
- [35:44]
B
So did I saw you Google what I was reading. I did the same thing the first time. I'm like, it must be 6 million. And then I googled and it was 60 million. And I thought, I've never heard of bail that high. Have you?
- [35:55]
A
No, but unless it's like a crazy case with somebody incredibly wealthy. But what I think is also interesting is what you had said. He had claimed that he was going to inherit or receive 6 million from that loss settlement, which is the 10% that you would need to post for a bond amount. So is he really coming into 6 million somewhere, even though they said that's not real and that's why they set it so high, because he does have money coming in?
- [36:21]
B
I don't know, but I was. I was confused about the 60 million also. That felt very high.
- [36:26]
A
I mean, I'm glad it's high. He seems like a creep, obviously, but, like, is there money there? I'm wondering.
- [36:31]
B
I don't know.
- [36:32]
A
Huh. That's interesting.
- [36:34]
B
I know. And then they were trying to blame it on the sleep medication, which I obviously know crazy things happen with sleep medication. But you're not. You're not wrapping a pillow in Saran Wrap, trying to suffocate your wife.
- [36:47]
A
Like on zquil. It actually did. I probably shouldn't say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. It kind of made me think, as you were saying, I was like, it's kind of the perfect crime because DNA usually is left behind on a pillowcase. If somebody's like, breathing and you can get like, the spray of, like, their saliva and like, what's happening if you're suffocating them with the pillow. With Saran Wrap, you would be able to take the Saran Wrap off and literally light it on fire and it would disintegrate.
- [37:09]
B
Okay.
- [37:10]
A
I know. It's kind.
- [37:12]
B
I mean, let's not advertise.
- [37:14]
A
No, I know. Which I'm sure there's a way to get caught. I still. But, like, you know, like, I haven't ever heard of a pillow being wrapped in Saran Wrap. And then I took it A step
- [37:22]
B
further in my mind, let alone you came up with the plan while you were under the influence of an over the counter sleep. Sleep a. Well. So that's what I was thinking. I know people have done some crazy stuff on Ambien.
- [37:31]
A
Like Jay.
- [37:32]
B
Yeah. Speaking of our brother who got undressed on a plane, just his shirt.
- [37:36]
A
But like on a strip down on a plane to Thailand.
- [37:38]
B
She was hot and, like, had no memory of it and I was sitting next to him. I'm like, sir, can you please put
- [37:44]
A
your shirt back on? God. Yeah, Jay's kind of a wildflyer, but
- [37:50]
B
I've heard Ambien, like, do not ever take it if you think there's a chance you might be awake at any point. While it's effective, you need to go like, like immediately to sleep and stay there.
- [37:59]
A
So I also should not say this, but I'm going to. In my 20s, when I dated someone that starts with a K, I took Ambien pretty regularly to sleep. But you do start hallucinating if you stay awake. And there were a couple of times I was in my early 20s. Okay. Was I even. Yeah, I had turned 21. Where like, I kind of tried to fight it a little bit, even being in bed, not like walking around like a zombie, but, like, try to fight it to like, feel the like hallucination a little bit. But yeah, it's like you do trip out and it can be really scary.
- [38:34]
B
But would you have the wherewithal to come up with a murder plot?
- [38:38]
A
Well, no, because that's not how my brain works. I was like, oh, I just want to see things look dizzy and spirally for a minute before I fall asleep to Desperate Housewives or whatever I was watching at the time, you know, which, it wasn't fair. But I'm doing a re watch now now, which why that. That's why it comes to mind. Okay, homework time. Everybody clock in.
- [38:54]
B
I'm getting comfy.
- [38:55]
A
It's time for school. So the homework was to watch the docu series. It's a three episode three parter called Should I Marry a Murderer? And let me give you a brief synopsis for those of you who did not watch so that you can partake in the conversation. It takes place in Scotland and it's a woman who basically coming out of a really bad breakup, I think things. They were engaged, possibly, I don't remember. But she comes out of a really bad breakup. She doesn't really have a lot of self esteem. She's kind of spiraling. She's a pathologist so she performs autopsies and find, you know, does all the ME type stuff to figure out cause of death and all those things. And she meets somebody on Tinder who she immediately hits it off with. He kind of love bombs her if I'm being honest. But like they hit it off. She drives out to his farm. They are drinking a ton, they're doing drugs together and like, like and I think the drug of choice was like weed and cocaine. They're like going off roading together because the farm has like all this land. They're in love. It's like this whirlwind romance. He ends up proposing to her after just a few months. She says yes, tells her family, tells her friend, orders a wedding dress with his mother, her future mother in law. And like is just super excited. Which you could kind of think initially, like sure, you're in love. It reads a little desperado because you just got out of a relationship and now you're like run rushing into this new thing, but whatever.
- [40:16]
B
And her friends and family were concerned.
- [40:18]
A
They were, they were kind of like this feels really fast, you know, like you just got out of something like take a beat. We haven't even like not people hadn't even really met this guy yet. Like it was incredibly fast. So then I forget exactly what had happened. But he basically, I think he what got really drunk one night and like confessed to her and for one reason or another how he and his brother, his twin brother, had been out drinking really late one night, were driving back to the farm on one of those, you know, two way lane highways where nobody's out, it's super dark, there's not street lights. And that there was a bicyclist, an older gentleman, I think in his late 50s, maybe early 60s, riding. He was actually riding a charity ride at the time, but it was like the middle of the night and they hit him. Then he said we panicked, we didn't want to lose everything. I didn't want to go to jail. He was, he died on impact. So we buried him on the farm. And as it's the story goes on, she's like showing she documents everything on Snapchat and like would post. She's one of those people if you probably have a friend or you follow someone who literally their phone is glued to their hand and they document their entire life through stories or tick tocks or whatever. And she was doing that as well. So a lot of these were playing throughout the episode, which I will say made it more of a dynamic episode. But she then says that, you know, she was like. Like shocked. She didn't know what to do, that she held this information. She knew that she needed to come forward, but she didn't. Like, she loved him. She was conflicted. Then I think a few weeks pass or something, he says to her, we need to move the body because somebody bought the farm and they're going to be doing construction. Like, okay, I need you to help us. You obviously already know about this. And that that was like, the turning point, too, where she was kind of like, look, you know, I need to tell someone. This is bad. So she goes behind his back. She confides in her family, she tells the police. She sets up a wire situation, and basically gets all this information against him. He gets arrested, so does his brother. They don't say anything. So the charges are pending for months and months and months, or I'm not. The charges, the arrest. Months and months and months go by. Meanwhile, he finds out she's the one who flipped on him. Yet they still get back together, continue drinking together, doing drugs together, being in this fantasy world together, which she explains as being, like, in this love pocket before she knew that ultimately he was going to go to jail or like, it was all going to blow up. And she was just trying to live in that blissful moment while she could. Even though she had turned him in, he knew she turned him in. And she knew he was a murderer during all this, too. She also finds out, as they're in this love bubble, she's continuing to record him without his knowledge. And he admits that when he hit this cyclist, he was still alive at the time. They. Then the brothers left him on the side of the road, drove to the farm, changed clothes, grabbed tools, came back to where he was, and at that point, he was already dead. And then they buried him. So there definitely was a moment in which they could have called for emergency services. They could have intervened, they could have done something. But instead, they chose to wait for him to die. Which I believe once the medical examiner looked at the. Well, I'm getting ahead of myself. Ultimately, they realized he did survive up to about 20 minutes after the impact. So she ends up, like, throwing a red when he. She's like, okay, I'll help you move the body, or whatever. But, like, we. They were out shooting, like, skeet shooting on the farm. And she's like, you need to tell me where it is. He said, like, right under your feet. She leaves a Red Bull can behind to identify the marker, tells the police, it's. It's on the. Here's the coordinates or whatever. It's. There's. You'll see a Red Bull can start, you know, excavating. Takes them a long time because I'm talking. This is like acres and acres and acres and acres of land. But they find the remains. That's when they ended up doing all the testing, figuring out that he could have survived 20 minutes after impact, whatever. So then he ends up ultimately getting arrested, charged, all of the things just like his brother. However, I can't remember what the charges were. I feel like they weren't like, that intense. I can't remember what am I missing?
- [44:16]
B
So a few things you missed that the brother. So one thing I found interesting was that the brother warned Carolyn, the girlfriend, that the brother wasn't exactly who she thought. And then he was the one who said that the gentleman was still alive.
- [44:32]
A
Right. So not the boyfriend, brother, the other.
- [44:34]
B
Yeah, the twin brother.
- [44:36]
A
Yeah. He's the one who told her that he was still alive at the time.
- [44:38]
B
And the reason that Carolyn went back into the love bubble after knowing the information was because the police, which I'm sure you're going to dive into a little bit more, were not as supportive as she felt they should be in terms of, like, taking care of a witness, protecting her, like, helping with her mental health while she was going through this trauma herself. And she, I think, felt very abandoned and lonely and like they were kind of the only ones. And she that, like, understood what she was going through in this weird way. And. Sorry, am I getting ahead of myself here? And I felt like also she felt a little. Even took taking the love bombing to another level because she said, here, this guy knows that I told on him and did the right thing and doesn't blame me. Because if you remember, he liked, when he found out, he started coming to her apartment and she was afraid for her life. But when he got there, he was kind of like, I understood why you did this. Like, you did the right thing. So she felt a little bit like, oh, my God, this guy is owning what he did. He's not mad at me. We're kind of like, in this together, if you will, which is a whole thing on its own.
- [45:50]
A
So here's my hot take. Okay. And I don't know if you agree with me or if anybody agree, will agree or whatever. It'll be interesting to see the comments. I don't think that she would have ever turned him in had he not asked her to then move the body. Because in those weeks when she knew about it, but didn't like. And she says in the interview, like, I knew I needed to do something, which it's like, that's easy to say after the fact. But she didn't actually come forward and say anything until he asked her to actively participate in it and make her an accessory. And I think that's what then triggered her. I think that had he not asked her to move the body, she would have stayed with him, would have married him, and would have swept his under the rug 100%.
- [46:32]
B
So I think one of the details that I forgot we didn't talk about that did bother her tremendously was in the very. So basically they were leaving. I thought it was like a family gathering or a friend gathering when they were driving home at night. And that's when they had this conversation of, well, now that we're going to marry each other, we should tell each other the worst thing that we've ever done so that we can, like, accept each other and know everything about each other. I was shocked that he just came right out and said what he did. So to me, that felt like he wanted to tell that information. And then later, you hear the brother who's, like, warning her, but when he said the detail of he poured bleach all over the body, I think for her, that was also another reminder. Not only. So it was first the bleach, because it's like, okay, you accidentally hit this man, you don't know what to do. You panic. But now you've buried this body, you're actively pouring bleach. That's a conscious decision you're making. So I think I got the feeling that that was a huge moment for her and what I think led her to be so scared of him in those certain moments. And then secondly, to find out he was actually alive. And there was a period where they could have saved him. So there were, like, conscious decisions of where he made some scary choices. And I felt like she was scared of him. And that was part of why she was going to the police also, because when she told her parents, that was the first person she told, which kind of was surprising.
- [47:58]
A
Yeah, I don't know. I'm conflicted because, look, I. And I don't want to sound insensitive. Everybody deals with trauma differently. And, like, people suffer from PTSD and they, like, get scared. And I get what you were saying, too. Like, she felt isolated, unsupported by the police, so she. It threw. She threw herself back in with the brothers. But like I said, there were so many pieces of media included that she had been recording in real time. That I get it, people put on it. Trauma makes you do crazy things to where you act a certain way, you even think you're happy and it tricks your mind and all these things. But when I was watching that, seeing those videos, even after she learned from the brother that the man had been alive and that they intentionally left him to die for those 20 minutes or whatever, she still is sleeping with him, happy in these videos, doing lines of coke with him, partying with him. And again, I get that your mind will do different things and trick you, but like, like, I think it was kind of going back to like the very beginning of why she even got in that relationship. A little bit like desperate and looking for something and yearning for something. And so she wasn't willing to let it go. Rather than I'm gonna go undercover and like continue to get information on them and like, because the police aren't doing it, I'm gonna do it. And like it felt more like she wanted to still be in this love pocket.
- [49:13]
B
Oh, 100. But I, I don't know. I mean who's to say? But I don't think she would have. I personally didn't get the feeling that like that was the only catalyst for her coming forward was that he acted, asked her to participate. I think that was definitely probably a huge factor. But the going back after she knew about it, I think, I mean her friend said like she was a shell of a person, like unrecognizable. The police were not offering her any sort. She was on poor drugs too. And so she turned to drugs and alcohol. I think she was self medicating. I think all those videos were more a function of her like being out of her mind a little bit and like documenting it and like being in denial. And I think like you see people in like, I mean this is not the same thing, but in abusive relationships where they know what they're doing is they're in a bad situation, but they're posting the happy photos online and they're so, I mean, I think she was probably a little bit in denial of like.
- [50:08]
A
Well actually, you know, we didn't even mention this part once it finally came time for the trial, she was the number one witness and she didn't show up to testify. She fled on drugs and drinking, went to the farm, which was far like hours away from her house, went to the farm, stole a tractor, was determined to find what was she looking. The bicycle in the waterfall, because he disposed of it in the waterfall, and they never were able to find it. So she's like, I'm going to find this too. Like, thinking that that was going to be the smoking gun, even though she was set to testify that day. And that actually is why the. Because she didn't show up to testify. They reduced the charges because she was an unreliable witness. And that's. Remember, they dropped the murder charge then. And so they only ended up getting a few years because she didn't go and testify. So then my mind, like, I agree with you. I think she was out of her mind. I think she was under, you know, under the influence of a lot of substances and, like, losing her mind a bit. Especially to, like. Like there was a manhunt then for her when she didn't show up at court and she stole the tractor, did all these things. But part of me was kind of like, felt like she's been in love with him this whole time and even staying with him after all this. Is she now doing this to intentionally taint the case? And is that why the boys are acting so smug in court? Because she's trying to help? I don't. Like, something just didn't land for me.
- [51:29]
B
Well, that's where I feel like she was. I don't. I don't think she was even, like, in a battle with herself. I don't know if she was that conscious of it, but it was crazy because, yeah, she's in this, like, love bubble where, again, I think it's like, we all know how this is gonna end, but let's just enjoy the moment while we can, if you will. And then when it came down to it, and they were gonna get. When they went to court, I think they didn't have enough evidence or they're that missing piece in order to get their sentence.
- [51:55]
A
They had their confessions on tape, but
- [51:56]
B
they needed the bike or something.
- [51:58]
A
No, but they didn't need the bike. The bike would have just. Just secure, like. Like secured.
- [52:02]
B
Made it more secure because she. The reason she fled was. I felt like she had a plan was to go get that bike, and it was to then further the case to get them in trouble. So then I'm like. But if you're trying to reduce. But I think it was an excuse.
- [52:15]
A
I don't know. I do.
- [52:16]
B
Oh, you don't believe she was actually going to get the bike?
- [52:19]
A
No, I think maybe. I think maybe she was. Or maybe she was, like, pretending to look for the bike or, like, going off on, like, what? Like. Like the fact that you're not Showing up as, like, a witness, and you're the key witness who has. Who heard the confessions firsthand, who has the recorded confessions after the fact, all these things. And you're not showing up, and then you're going all the way to the farm on a tractor, drinking and, like, doing all these things. I get she's saying it was to, like, help the case and. Yeah, to, like, secure it and secure their conviction. But, like, you are not the one who is going to get. Like, that's.
- [52:54]
B
I mean, it was a crazy thought.
- [52:56]
A
I don't know. There's something about it. I just cannot put my finger on it. I don't think we're seeing the whole story. So that's what I wanted to ask you. And I do my opinion, maybe it's a hot take. I think she would have married him and kept his secret and taken it to the grave had he not asked her to help him move the body.
- [53:15]
B
Okay, well, I have another question for you, because I thought it was gonna end in a completely different way. I thought in the.
- [53:21]
A
They were gonna get married when he, like, Israeli.
- [53:23]
B
I thought the sentence was five years. And then that's why the question is the title. Should I marry a murderer? Like, he's accepted because that was another thing. It was like he completely owned up to what he did. He. I felt they were remorseful and sorry. I think they never blamed Carolyn. In fact, they were still friendly with her and on good terms, both the brother and him. So I. I almost felt a sense of relief from them that they were caught and this was out in the open. So it's like, if they truly just made this tremendous error in judgment, and they did their time and they owned it, and they're not denying anything. And now he wants to marry her. That's what I thought the question was. And so I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, what a crazy position to be in.
- [54:09]
A
I would not be shocked if, when
- [54:11]
B
he's released, she married someone else.
- [54:14]
A
She did.
- [54:14]
B
Yeah.
- [54:14]
A
Maybe I didn't see that part.
- [54:15]
B
Yeah. That's why I was so shocked, because I thought that's what it was. Yeah. She's with somebody else, and she's like, I'm in a happy relationship now. And she was, like, so thankful that interview was over. So that's what I was thinking.
- [54:26]
A
I don't know. There's something. You guys tell me if you've watched it or if you're going to watch it after this. There's something that makes me feel like we're not. And of Course, we never get the full story. We're getting one perspective, one narrative. But, like, there's something off about it to me, and I can't quite figure it out.
- [54:40]
B
It was good, though.
- [54:41]
A
It was very good. I think you guys should watch it. You don't like it?
- [54:45]
B
No, I liked it. I felt like in the beginning it was a little hard to watch, but I think that's because I usually multitask and I needed to focus. But, like, it kind of. Yeah, it made you think. I. I really thought at the end that's where we were going with it. And I was thinking, not that it would be a difficult decision for me, but I could imagine people who are really looking for love and they have this person who, yeah, owned it and served their time. Like, would they consider.
- [55:08]
A
Do I, I. We need to do more homework episodes and is he.
- [55:10]
B
I mean, is he a murderer? Yeah.
- [55:12]
A
Yes, 100%. What do you mean?
- [55:15]
B
Well, yes. I mean, I think they said he's. I can't remember the charges, but it was like they pulled that one off.
- [55:21]
A
And I think it was something about like, not like the disposal or hiding a crime and lying to police and all these things. But, yeah, he's a murderer. He left him there to die.
- [55:28]
B
Yeah.
- [55:29]
A
And then buried him for years. Like. Yeah. Years went by where people were looking for this guy.
- [55:34]
B
I mean, that's what I think. I think of his poor family. And to me, I mean, mean, there'd be a lot of motivators to come forward and tell the truth, but his family would be the number one, is that they deserve to know and put him to rest. Absolutely. So, I mean, thank God they got that.
- [55:49]
A
I know. Well, there you go. Let me know what you guys think about that case. If you've watched the docu series again, it's Should I Marry a Murderer? And it's on Netflix. And that's what we've got for you for headline highlights today. But I do, I will have that hantavirus bonus episode for you tomorrow. It'll be right here on this feedback and we'll go. We're gonna go through everything, like the timeline, the what it. What the virus even is, how you contract it, the symptoms, all of those things. And then I will be back with you with a deep dive on Monday morning. As a reminder, if you missed it, we also put out a brand new episode on Tuesday of this week, but it's on my second podcast feed, 10 to life. So go over there. It's the case of Mariah Wilson. We went way deeper than Netflix did. Sorry, Netflix? No shade, Kinda. But it's about a love triangle, plastic surgery to go in hiding, you know, a sinister plot, all sorts of crazy stuff. So that is available right now for you. All right, guys, until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people. Take rejection. If it comes your way, just take it humbly and move along.
- [56:59]
B
Don't do Fentanyl.
- [57:01]
A
Don't do Fentanyl.
- [57:01]
B
And.
- [57:02]
A
And don't go to the Bahamas. I guess. I know. I love the Bahamas.
- [57:05]
B
Don't take a dinghy out if you're on bad terms with somebody.
- [57:08]
A
I love the word dinghy more than anything, honestly. Like, I hated everything.
- [57:11]
B
Don't go out in nature if you're in a tiff with somebody. Never, never stay home.
- [57:16]
A
Just stay home. Just stay home. All right, guys. Bye.