2026 French Open Day 4 Recap, Djokovic & Fonseca, & Serena Williams Return?

Summary

Served with Andy Roddick — 2026 French Open Day 4 Recap, Djokovic & Fonseca, & Serena Williams Return?

Date: May 28, 2026
Host: Andy Roddick (Mike) with Jon Wertheim (JW) and Vachero
Podcast: Served with Andy Roddick, Served Media Network

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers an energetic, insightful recap of Day 4 at the 2026 French Open, with former World No. 1 Andy Roddick steering the discussion. Jon Wertheim and Vachero join to break down the women’s and men’s draws, deliver behind-the-scenes stories, and spark up the biggest talking points, from shocking upsets to Novak Djokovic’s marathon win, Joao Fonseca’s gritty progression, and swirling rumors of a Serena Williams return to the tour.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Women's Draw: Surprises, Injuries & Breakout Stories

Iga Swiatek and Svitolina Shine

• [02:01] Iga Swiatek dominates as expected; Svitolina considered a dark horse.
• A surprising upset: Magda Linette defeats Ostapenko (04:02), altering expected matchups and avoiding Ostapenko's daunting 6-0 head-to-head over Swiatek.

Sara Bejlek Dutsveva’s Major Upset Over Rybakina

• [02:22]/[06:53] The “shocking result” of World No. 55 Sara Dutsveva (Star Dubseva)—a former Old Dominion college player—beating Elena Rybakina in a third-set tiebreaker.
  • JW (06:53): “She just absolutely outplayed her when the match mattered most … What an extraordinary story of this player who played at Old Dominion … subsidizing her career with lessons and now here she is beating the winner of the previous Slam.”
• Discussion on the growing impact of college tennis on the pro tour:
  • Mike (07:56): “I want to produce as many American players as possible and I want them to face as much high level competition as possible before they get to the pro tour.”

Haley Baptiste’s "Gruesome" Injury

• [04:02]–[05:48] Haley Baptiste, a rising American, suffers a troubling knee injury after a breakthrough win over Krajcikova.
  • JW (04:48): “Don’t watch it ... Everything’s going great and then all of a sudden you wrench your knee and who knows what the rest of the year looks like for Haley Baptiste. That was really a tough one.”

Chris Evert’s Ongoing Form

• [05:29] The hosts marvel at Chris Evert’s continued high level, dismissing retirement rumors.

The “Ukrainian Wave”

• [09:50] Cluster effects of national success: Ukrainian women (Kostyuk, Svitolina, Dutsveva) are inspiring one another:
  • JW (09:50): “These are human beings and they react to the usual motivations ... You see people from your country ... and you say, If they can do it, why can’t I? ... You tend to see that a lot in tennis.”

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2. Men’s Draw: Djokovic’s Endurance, Fonseca’s Breakthrough & Coaching Drama

Novak Djokovic: The Marathon Man

• [11:28] – [21:19]
• Wins another marathon at age 39, in grueling heat.
  Mike (15:30): “On a day that was hot as life and a tough four setter. Four hours on court ... Novak actually looked okay at the end of this match.”
• Strategic scheduling:
  JW (16:00): "One of the stories I had heard was … Novak may well have said, 'I’m thinking about playing the long game ... if I got a couple to play a day session, well, this wouldn’t be a bad day to do it.'"
• ServiceNow Stat of the Day:
  Vachero (19:39): “21 consecutive years Novak Djokovic has made the third round of Roland Garros … including his next opponent, Joao Fonseca, who was not even born when Novak started making the quarters!”

Joao Fonseca: Gritty Five-Setter

• [21:19]–[23:38]
• The Brazilian teenager comes back from two sets down in extreme conditions:
  • Mike (22:23): “Speaking of Fonseca, him coming back from two sets ... there’s a lot of hype … but what he did today … losing the first two sets on a hot day, and then digging and getting gritty and winning in five—That will, in the locker room ... that’s a real result.”
  • JW (23:00): “To see a teenager go down two sets to love and say ‘Now it’s time to fight’ … If you’re going to win your first five-setter, those were pretty good conditions to do it under.”

Drama Around Davidovich Fokina

• [12:26]–[14:19]
• Mid-tournament split with coach Mariano Puerta after a practice-court dispute.
  • JW (13:16): “Have you ever heard of this, by the way? A player-coach relationship fizzling in the middle of a major?”

Other Men’s Results

• Highlights include Rublev and Khachanov advancing, Mickelson’s continued run after beating Baza Verretti (who had upset Taylor Fritz), and plenty of surprise results and withdrawals due to injuries (see also: discussion of retirements [27:15]–[28:04]).

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3. Injuries & Withdrawals:

• [27:52] Significant spike: 8 mid-match retirements and 20+ overall withdrawals; mostly hips and feet.
  • Mike (27:58): “A lot of hips and feet. And you don’t like it?”
  • JW & Vachero comment on the supposed format changes/extra days meant to help player health, which have not produced desired results.

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4. Trivia & Levity: Clay Records and Andy’s (Statistical) “GOAT” Status

• [24:57]–[27:28]
  • Trivia: Through his first 20 career tour-level matches on clay, Andy Roddick was 18–2 (best ever, better than Djokovic, Nadal, Federer... all read out in good fun).
    • Mike (26:06): “Oh my God. I didn’t realize I was the best clay court player ever!”
    • JW (26:13): “If we judged careers in 20-match intervals, you’d be okay.”

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5. Serena Williams: Comeback Buzz

Building Rumor of a Return

• [28:22]–[36:46]
• Wild card requests for grass season have been made in Serena's name, likely by her own camp.
  • JW (28:46): “She is putting in the request … I’ve heard there have been multiple wild card requests for grass court season.”
• Likely to start with doubles (possibly at Queen’s Club with her sister), with singles a real possibility—maybe even for Wimbledon.
  • Mike (31:28): “As soon as you re-enter doping protocols … you do that because you want the option of coming back. … If you do that and you’re Serena Williams, I gotta think … her best chance of lightning in a bottle … is grass at Wimbledon.”
  • JW (32:31): “You mentor a younger player, you play doubles, you see how your body holds up … If it goes well, maybe it’s a Wimbledon wild card… or kick it to the US Open and wait for hard court.”
  • Mike (33:56): “I think she’s gonna play singles. … If you’re going to come back, you gotta go. We’ll see.”
• Behind-the-scenes: British tax laws have pushed top women from Queen’s to Berlin, where the field is brutal—speculation on whether Serena’s first singles match might come in a smaller event or just go “full send” at Wimbledon.

The Hosts’ Take

• All believe the tennis world is “hungry” for Serena’s return and see it as a positive, regardless of outcomes.
  • JW (36:02): “I hope this is conveyed to the camp: This is awesome. Everybody wants to see this. And if it doesn’t result in yet another Wimbledon title, it’s all good.”
  • Mike (36:41): “You know who says [Serena is tarnishing her legacy]? People with no legacies. Hate is gonna hate. … I want Serena back on the tennis court!”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Sara Dutsveva’s upset:
  • JW (06:53): “She just absolutely outplayed her when the match mattered most … What an extraordinary story of this player who played at Old Dominion … subsidizing her career with lessons and now here she is beating the winner of the previous Slam.”
• On Novak’s longevity:
  • Vachero (19:39): “21 consecutive years Novak Djokovic has made the third round of Roland Garros … 16% of the draw was not even born when he started.”
• On Fonseca’s breakthrough:
  • Mike (22:23): “Losing the first two sets on a hot day, and then digging and getting gritty and winning in five—That will, in the locker room ... that’s a real result.”
• On Serena’s expected comeback:
  • JW (28:52): “I think this is great. … This could be a wonderful, inspirational story. … I think the truth is, this is awesome.”
  • Mike (36:41): “I want Serena back on the tennis court. That would be unbelievable. I hope it happens.”
• On Andy’s clay record:
  • Mike (26:06): “Oh my God. I didn’t realize I was the best clay court player ever!”
  • JW (26:13): “If we judged careers in 20-match intervals, you’d be okay.”

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• Beginning of women’s draw recap, Svitolina’s upset: [02:01]
• Sara Dutsveva upsets Rybakina, college tennis angle: [06:53]
• Haley Baptiste’s injury: [04:02]–[05:48]
• Ukrainian cluster effect: [09:50]
• Serena Williams comeback rumors teased: [11:26]
• Men’s draw/Djokovic marathon/strategy: [11:28]–[21:19]
• Fonseca’s comeback: [21:19]–[23:38]
• Davidovich Fokina coaching drama: [12:26]–[14:19]
• Spike in retirements and injuries: [27:52]
• Andy Roddick clay trivia/fun: [24:57]–[27:28]
• Serena Williams rumor deep dive: [28:22]–[36:46]
• Final words and sign-off: [36:46]–[37:10]

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Tone & Style

The episode is fast-paced, irreverent, highly knowledgeable, and blends off-the-cuff humor with sharp technical and behind-the-scenes insight. There’s a camaraderie and playfulness between the hosts—Roddick’s self-deprecation, Wertheim’s dry wit, and Vachero’s stats drop-ins—all making for insightful but unstuffy tennis commentary.

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Takeaways for Listeners

Even if you missed the matches, this episode gets you up to speed on French Open Day 4’s big moments, from stunning upsets and gritty five-set wins to the mechanics and motives behind wild card rumors. The blend of stats, storytelling, and industry scuttlebutt—plus the prospect of a Serena Williams comeback—means this recap isn’t just informative, it’s thoroughly entertaining for both hardcore and casual tennis fans.

Transcript

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[Mike]

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[Vachero]

Let's go.

[Mike]

Let's go. Jw, you remember like a week ago when we were doing the draw show and you were telling us that it was 50 degrees?

[JW]

I have no recollection of that. It's not 50 degrees.

[Mike]

Well, you can't. I mean, yeah, it is 50 degrees.

[JW]

It's 50 degrees Celsius.

[Vachero]

Your tan's looking good.

[Mike]

All right, I'm going to run through just some scores real quick and then we'll circle back to some some storylines that we want to double down on. Ego looking great rolls through. And two Svitolina 0 and 4 upset of the day and I hope I print. This is intimidating. Sara Dutzeva oh, I beats Rbacana.

[Vachero]

I think you got it, world number 55.

[Mike]

I know you do a lot of things really well, Mike, but when you say I pronounce something right, it's not as if I'm like, yeah, that's definitely nailed it.

[Vachero]

I'm. I'm not even going to try it.

[Mike]

Say Stir it to a stir.

[Vachero]

Dut.

[Mike]

Yeah, there you go. Yes. Nailed it. But I thought that was. We'll go back to that one because I think that was shocking. Shocking result for Rebakkina. Sierra takes out Paolini. Still searching for some form. JW's bracket. Bench. It beats McNally, therefore ruining JW's bracket. Didn't think those were words I was going to say two weeks ago.

[JW]

Yeah, the boneyard that we're going to do a redraw show. Right.

[Mike]

We need it.

[JW]

How about wait, I got a. Wait. I got a really funny one for Mike real quick.

[Vachero]

We were.

[JW]

I interviewed Benches today who's just delightful and she beats Katie McNally. And I said, do you know your next opponent is from the same town? And she goes, oh, you mean Cincinnati, Ohio. She plays Peyton Stearns next, but Belinda Benchich all over southwest Ohio. She's got you covered.

[Mike]

She's going for the city title.

[Vachero]

I love it.

[JW]

Yeah, right. City champion.

[Mike]

That's funny. Costa gets through in three sets after losing the first. This one outside of who they would have played next. Largely like you kind of. There's a lot of other storylines to go. But if I tell you Lynette beats Ostapenko, what's your reaction?

[JW]

Jw, I think that is a loyal country woman. That's like the mobster movie where the Polish player takes out the rival so that the Polish kingpin can survive. Good job as the soldier. That is Magdalenette. Yeah. We don't get the Ostapenko Ega match first.

[Mike]

For context. One of the weirdest head to heads in all of sports is Ostapenko 6 and oh against IGA Sviatek. So IGA probably did not want to see us to Panko countrywoman Lynette doing the work for her, taking her out. And we'll face IGA tech. Scary, scary scene. Jw. I have a hard time. I can't watch injuries like replays of injuries. Haley Baptiste has been such a great story this season. Obviously with the win against Sabalenka in the semifinal in Madrid. She hurt her knee and it looked like it was bad. It looked like it was sideways. It looked like a. It looked like a bad, bad injury. We hope it's not as bad, but are you hearing anything differently than. We're just really, really worried.

[JW]

I. Yeah. I mean, she did not come into press. We've all perhaps seen the video. Understandably her, you know, members of her family went onto the court. It was that severe. It's. It sucks. It's horrible. Don't watch it. She was playing. I mean, it's a minor point, but she was playing great tennis. Beat Krajikova in the first round and she had a top 25 and really was a player on the rise. You just, you hope this is better than it looked. I also couldn't help think this is why players want a bigger piece of the pie. Everything's going great and then all of a sudden you wrench your knee and who knows what the rest of the year looks like for Haley Baptist, but that's. Yeah, that was, that was. That was really a tough. That was a tough one.

[Mike]

We hope that our collective eyes are lying to us, but it didn't look great. Chris Day is not going to retire. She's won like three and one or three. No, she's. I'm just. I'm going to say it every episode, but there's going to be an announcement. She is not going to retire playing the way that she is. She's playing the best tennis of her life. Is that. Is that hyperbolic? JW Not.

[JW]

Not only. That's not hyperbolic. And the math supports us. She's never played at this level in terms of rankings, and it just doesn't stop winning.

[Mike]

Stearns through to the third round to play the Cincinnati City conqueror Belinda Bench edger at least attempted eagle looked great. I still don't think there's enough chatter about her in this tournament. She knows what to do. Has never lost a Grand Slam final, by the way. So for her, the challenge the last couple of years has been getting to that stage, not winning once she does Svitolina look great. So those two favorites through. But jw, it's. It's getting a little wacky on the women's side. Pula losing last night to Barrel and today Stero Duts of a beating Rabina in a third set breaker. And as good as Rabakin has been this entire year. And if you've watched our show and listened to our show before, you know what a fan I am of. Of her game. She looked bad today. And I don't know that there's another way around it. It was a strange loss.

[JW]

It was a strange loss. It was also, I thought, really good coaching where star Duktsova kept the ball out of that strike zone of Rybakina and just totally. I don't know if you saw that third set breaker. She just absolutely. What was it? It was like 10, three or 10. I mean, she absolutely outplayed her when the match mattered most. Remember Jesper Gula played Star Dubseva in the Charleston final in said one of the most gracious things and said if you haven't looked up her story, look it up and everyone went racing. What an extraordinary story of this player who played, played at Old Dominion. So yet another college player. We don't often think of her in the same vein as, as the Emma Navarro and Ben Shelton, but stardubseva played at Old Dominion and you know, she's, she's giving lessons in order to subsidize her career and now here she is beating the winner of the previous. So there will be no Grand Slam champion by the way in 2026. No Alcaraz in the draw and now Robakina out. But no Star Dubseva was, she was great and I thought she really was the better player tactically today win of her career.

[Mike]

She, she had to be, you know, the, the when you're giving up that much firepower, credit to her. There's not a lot that can go wrong strategically. Right. And, and as far as execution and, and you're right. You know, she, she rarely let robot hit two balls in the same spot if she could help it. Did a good job creating, you know, no pace up high out of the zone and then when she got a chance she was taking that forehand over to Rubakona's forehand. Credit to her. It's a great story. You know, I know there's been a lot made of, you know, people who aren't born in America coming and playing college tennis. I kind of go the other way a little bit just because I don't think we've ever had more pros from America that are ready to go on tour and make an impact right away. I don't think, I don't think it's coincidence that you have stories like stereotype and then all of a sudden our American players from having had to play players like her who are as tough as her all of a sudden then have to go out on tour and produce and they find that an easier task. Right. So if the goal is to have a bunch of people playing Division 1 tennis instead of someone from the Ukraine, then maybe we have different goals. I want to produce as many American players as possible and I want them to face as much compet high level competition as possible before they get to the pro tour. So you know, just depends on what lens you're looking at it from. But either way we digress. A great story with stereotype. Well deserved win. First time that I've seen Rybakina really, really kind of searching for it and maybe struggling this. This year so far. The other thing jw, I want to ask you about, like, is there such thing as momentum in a given country, right? Like when Kostyk wins and Svitolina wins, stare at each of you going, wait, I'm a Ukrainian woman. We're all winning right now. This is. I'm gonna do my part as well. Like, I'm gonna obviously beat someone who had the chance to be number one.

[JW]

Absolutely. And I think, you know, we. These are human beings and they react to the usual motivations. I mean, I think that happens a lot. You have this clustering effect, right. And it's sort of. It sounds cliche, but if that guy can do it, why Michael Chang can win majors, why can't Pete Samprasanagassi? And if Jannik Sitter's doing it, why can't a half a dozen other Italian men? And yeah, I mean, I think you see people from your country, you know their facilities, you know their opera, you sort of look at yourself and you say, if they can do it, why can't I? And I think you see that a lot. And I don't. You tell me. I mean, you also came up with this cluster of. Of other American players. I mean, I think some of this is you push each other and there's a little bit of sort of friendly. You know, Taylor Fritz doesn't want to be overtaken as the top American. He's perfectly friendly. But I think there's a little bit of pride that goes with that too. But, yeah, I mean, you see that. You tend to see that a lot in tennis, don't you? That, hey, one check player breaks through and here come the rest.

[Mike]

Yeah, I think the other thing is you tend to practice more with players that you know better, you know their coaches, same, you know, coaching circles. Therefore, you know, I'm completely making this up. But the way that it works sometimes is all of a sudden you're practicing with Svitolina Kostia six weeks ago, they go on a win, you play them tough in practice one day and you go, hey, I might be able to do this too. Sometimes it can be that simple. Obviously, there's a lot of execution that goes into it after that. But anyways, great story that the Ukrainian women are really showing up this clay court season and doing their country proud. Jw, you have some Serena Williams potential news. Should we. Mike, do you want to get that now or you want to go after the men's scores?

[Vachero]

Let's do after the mid schools. Let's do it at the end.

[Mike]

Oh, great. Okay, no problem. A guy named Novak Djokovic won his match at 39 years old on a day that was hot as life and a tough four setter. Four hours on court or something like that. Karen Hatchinoff gets through. Rublev gets through. Fonseca beats Prismich in five. I want to get back to that one. Hodar struggled maybe a little bit more with Duckworth than we thought, but got through in four sets. Mins in five, I think 13:11 in the fifth set breaker. And then it was like, you know when you're driving down the highway and you see the opposite direction, you see like people reacting to like a car wreck or something. That was what it looked like afterwards. He was exhausted. There was a million people on court. Just his body completely gave out. Mickelson beats Baza Verretti on the heels of Baza Verdi beating Taylor Fritz first round. Davidovich Fakina loses to Toronte. And there's a little more drama around that one jw, like what the hell is going on there?

[JW]

Drama tends to follow Davidovich Fokina. So apparently yesterday he had a dispute with his coach, Mariano Puerta, who you might recall. Oh, that was who. Yeah, exactly. Let's save that discussion for another time. But that was who Rafa actually beat in the final to win his first French Open in 2005. But anyway, you know what's funny is he lost to Toronte. And I was speaking to Toronte after, who's a really nice kid, 25 years old, really kind of coming into form. But I said to Toronto, like, did you realize your. Your opponent didn't have a coach? I didn't complete the story. Oh, there was a dispute with David Fokina and Puerto on the practice court, I guess. And Puerto just said, you know what, I'm out of here. And apparently they. They unfollowed each other. And next thing you know, Puerto is, you know, headed in the Miami airport and is not returning Tech. So Davidovich Voquina took in the middle of a major with no coach and he plays Toronte and who's Argentinian, same as Puerto. And I said, you know, did you realize your opponent was taking the court with no coach? And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, we heard all about that. So, you know, we have a lot of advantages you take on the court before you hit the first ball. I'm not sure I have a coach and you don't. Is something I've Ever heard before? Have you ever heard of this, by the way? A player, coach relationship fizzling in the middle of a major.

[Mike]

I don't think.

[JW]

Like, that was a new one.

[Mike]

Huh? On a random off day.

[JW]

I don't.

[Mike]

I don't think that's the case. It's interesting. It's interesting to me to like. Puerto obviously makes the finals no. 5, then gets busted for doping shortly there afterwards. I don't know. Like, I'd like to know what was said in that fight. That could get personal pretty quickly if you had that ammunition to go against someone. Couldn't it?

[JW]

Yeah. Again, we'll save this for another time. And not a bit is. I'm not sure I want a coach who is notorious for a doping ban. There's a big, big universe of potential coaches out there. I would think that might be disqualified. You ready anyway?

[Mike]

You ready for the best division. You ready for. I know you. You're trying to move on from Puerto. You want one more little note about it?

[JW]

What do you got?

[Mike]

Okay. Training. Training group. December of 2005. Bunch of Americans together. We're in South Florida for like five days. Just. There's a million guys ranked from me to 300 in the world. So some veteran in Ginepri is there. Ginepri had a great run. Right. Robbie Ginepri, semis of US Open. Was 16 in the world. Bonus in his contract if he finishes top 15 in the world. Just missed out on it. It was a really big size bonus. Puerto gets popped, drops from the rankings. The points that he had won for the previous nine months. Robbie comes in amongst bagels and said, I just made X amount. It was pretty sweet. Thank you for. Great story. Couple of matches that I want to dig a little bit deeper on. Novak. I don't know how you. I shouldn't be surprised at this point. And I feel like I'm a broken record. But coming in, playing, you know, Roy, a hot Frenchman who played great. Had the crowd on his side. It's a million degrees out. Novak actually looked okay at the end of this match.

[JW]

Right.

[Mike]

Like, you've seen him at the US Open a couple of times the last couple of years where he gets into a rough one and it looks like his body's about to give out. Now. He was taking time and he was pacing himself. There's no one better at managing a match. The ebbs and flows and when to kind of push the ignition and when to pull back and when to throw a point away for energy and when to. But, like, how the hell does he keep doing this, it's.

[JW]

We all throw up our arms, right? This guy defies all conventional wisdom.

[Mike]

He looked good today. He looked really good.

[JW]

He looked good. Wait, wait. You want another one? This is. This is utter. This is somewhere between. I'm not reporting this, but it's informed enough so it's not just rumor. People say, why the hell would Novak pick a third on? I mean, Novak's got a lot of juice, right? He's got a lot of stick. He can play whatever he wants. Don't you think the tournament would rather have him as a night session? Why would he pick third on in the heat of the day? And one of the stories I had heard was, you can't play every match at night. Then it becomes this complete competitive imbalance. You've got to put a. And Novak may well have said, look, I'm thinking about the playing the long game here. I'm going to want some night matches in the, you know, over the weekend or early next week. And he's thinking in terms of winning this title and says, listen, if I got a couple play a day session, well, this wouldn't be a bad day to do it. So I don't think Novak is here to, like, reach the third or fourth round and say, Gee, I'm playing great at 39. He's in this for a 25th major. And we always say this, right? I mean, let him get his teeth into one of these. Let him get some confidence. Let him go 3 of 5, where Paricard can have a great serving set and then eventually cools off, and all of a sudden he's in the round of 32. And if you are looking for players with a chance of beating Yannick Sinner, you could do a lot worse than a guy who's not only won 24 of these, but beat center at the previous major.

[Mike]

Yeah, listen, it was a little bumpy in the third set. Obviously, he got extended. He doesn't want to get extended. Right. He would have liked to button this up in, you know, 2 hours and 15, and he got pushed. What's the saying? 3 hours and 44 minutes. You don't want that if you're Novak. But also the reps aren't bad for him. Like, he's. He's in this, like, Serena mode now where he almost plays himself into shape during the slam, like in real time. Because no matter how much you practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. No matter how much you practice, like, you can't. You can't recreate nerves. Like, I guarantee Novak doesn't ever. Like he hasn't been nervous in practice. I tried to think of a good pop culture reference and I couldn't. Lubega a little too old.

[JW]

Lou Baker.

[Mike]

There you go.

[JW]

That's a poll.

[Mike]

Yeah, sorry.

[JW]

He's probably younger than Novak.

[Vachero]

He's been nervous in practice.

[Mike]

He hasn't been nervous.

[Vachero]

Didn't make the third round.

[Mike]

He hasn't been nervous in practice since Puerto is clean. Anyways. Sorry. Oh, gosh.

[JW]

But.

[Mike]

But to come out there and be able to switch directions like, he's not getting out of the corners like he did. He's not playing as much defense as he did. You know what? One shot we don't talk about enough. We always talk about Pete's on the run forehand. Novak's forehand on the run. When he just goes rip city and knows that he has to. When he kind of slaps it hits more winners on that ball. It's. It's a joke. You can't. Actually, I'm watching it today and I thought Royer played great. I hadn't seen much of him before. I thought he actually played really well as forehand to the forehand side, kind of where he goes inside out and then pulls. It was. Was really impressive. You cannot. There's probably one person or two people on earth that can make a lot of headway against Novak going cross court. Like, you can't. You cannot just beat him cross. Like his defense is too good on the open leg. On the backhand side. His forehand running is like phenomenal. His. His gauge and feel for when he plays defense. Puts that back in the court versus when he has to go, go rip. Like he rarely makes a bad decision to that side. It's just so impressive. It's like all the skill in the world mixed with this guile that's been accumulated over the course of two decades.

[Vachero]

Can I give you the servicenow stat of the day that's based on Novak and maybe we'll help put a button in this conversation.

[Mike]

I was hoping you would.

[Vachero]

21 years. 20 years. That's how many consecutive years Novak Djokovic has made the third round of Roland Garros, which in that 21 consecutive years. Yeah, 21 consecutive years. He has made the. At least the third round and 20 of those years, he's made at least the quarters. Right.

[Mike]

Is that.

[Vachero]

And then this record true? The record is older than that? Yeah. The record is older than 15 players that were in the main draw or 16 or 6% of the entire draw was not even Born when he started,

[Mike]

he was making, he was making quarters,

[Vachero]

including his next opponent, Joao Fonseca.

[Mike]

Yeah. He was making quarters of Roland Garris before Hodar was a thought. Yeah.

[Vachero]

Like for real.

[Mike]

That's a. It's crazy.

[JW]

I mean he, that's insane. Bear in mind too, this is worst, you know, on major. This is worst major.

[Mike]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you like what's his. It's absurd. I don't even know how to make anything. He's doing real. I don't know how to talk about it. Most topics I can kind of relate to and then explain it from a place of like reason or knowing. And this I have no, I just have no idea. I don't know how he does it. I don't know how you're a part time tennis player come out and win a four setter in 95 degrees, you know, against someone who's playing well. And he, like, he wasn't. He's obviously not like he's going to be in five days if he makes it through. Like, obviously the fun Sega match is going to be at night. But I mean, he looked, I thought he struck the ball in those first two sets. It was like, oh, he's, he's finding this gear kind of early. And he finished the match and there was some levity. It's just. I don't know what else to say. I don't know what else to say.

[Vachero]

I mean, Fonseca and his win was, was super emotional. You know, I feel like there's like a lot of pressure on him.

[Mike]

Well, Fonseca, it's, it's actually weird to say we're more. Are we worried about Fonseca's recovery? And he's.

[JW]

I was going to, I was going to say who he plays his first five setter.

[Mike]

Yep.

[JW]

Who do you think is going to be the fresher player in 48 hours?

[Mike]

I know. Who has the experience of recovery down to quite literally a science. You know, I, you know, it's. It's going to be fun to watch. I will say that speaking of Fonseca, him coming back from two sets, there's a lot of hype. I don't know that last year when he was playing at Roland Garros, there was, it was like a, it was pandemonium when he was playing on the outer courts. I don't know that we would have said he's going to be 28 in the world next year at Roland Garros. We would have said he's going to be 10. Okay. So there is some pressure associated with Fonseca, and obviously, we have to give him time. The hype is there for a reason. He can absolutely play. And to me, what he did today against Prismic, who beat Novak a couple weeks ago, losing the first two sets on a hot day, and then digging and getting gritty and winning in five, that's more impressive to me than, let's say, when he takes out Rublev, when Rublev is the number five seed in Australia. Right. This. Today, that. That will. In the locker room. And I think that's why Fonseca was emotional. He was actually, like, tearing up afterwards. I think it was like, okay, is this a progression that matters? Right. Did I just do something super gritty? And it wasn't just based on the fact that I can hit a ball off the forehand side harder than. Than most of earth? You know, if I'm viewing that and I'm in the locker room, I'm going, all right, you're showing me something, kid. Like, this is. This is a real result.

[JW]

Yep. It's easy to say, oh, I want to be tested. I'm willing to go to deep waters. It's another thing on a day like this. And I would also say that we can talk about a lot of the. There have been a lot of injuries. There have been a lot of retirements. There have also been a lot of players who have just tapped out, and some have even conceded. I mean, some have. I mean, I don't go, go watch Medvedev's last game. I mean, go. You can go down a list of players who have basically said no mask. And to see a teenager basically go down two steps to love and say, you know what? Now it's time to fight. I think he taught himself a lot today. If you're. If you're going to win your first five setter, those were pretty good conditions to do it under.

[Mike]

If. If. If I'm his coach, if I'm in his corner and we're chatting after that match, I can do a real sell job on that being a massive turning point in his career. I can sell that to him very easily, I think, in that. In that locker room. That was really impressive stuff today from Fonseca, as it was. Hodar. Hodar, listen, has been rolling, rolling most of whoever he's played. You know, Duckworth, a great veteran, like, literally no stone unturned, uber professional. Not one of the guys you look at and say, hey, this guy's, like, just the most talented person we've ever seen. I Have. And I don't mean that as disrespectful. I mean that as, you know, a compliment. The guy's made a living and is just a tough out. But you would say Hodar on clay. This is, this is roll city, right. With. With what he's been doing. Hodar wins the first, set up, a break in the second, lose the second down a break in the third. Looks like it's hot. Again, we don't know what his body's going to do when he gets into an extended format. Right. It gave out a little bit against Dartery in, in, in Rome. So we don't know until someone actually gets into that situation what their body and what their, their expiration date is on a match. I thought Hodar, him kind of winning that in an uglier fashion. I can turn that into a positive for him, like, no problem.

[Vachero]

Vachero, before we move on, can I give you a little. Can I give John a little bit of trivia?

[Mike]

Sure.

[Vachero]

About. About Hodar. So, so hard. Hard today with the win. Through his first 20 career tour level clay matches on clay, he is 17 in three.

[JW]

Jeez.

[Vachero]

It's a ridiculous record, right? He's only in second place for somebody with a better record through their first 20 career tour level matches on clay. John, do you know who sits above Hodar with the best record?

[JW]

If I said Rafa. That sounds too obvious.

[Vachero]

Rafa's a little obvious.

[JW]

Does he wear a psycho bunny hat that people mistake for bad bunny hat?

[Vachero]

Yes.

[JW]

Come on.

[Vachero]

His name's andy Roddick. He's 18 and two through his first

[Mike]

20 career clay court way. I think we're, I think we're onto something here. Read the rest of that list.

[Vachero]

Yeah, yeah. So not Nadal because he was 13 and 7.

[Mike]

So basically what we just 13. And so I'm. I'm better than Nadal. Clay.

[Vachero]

Yeah. Novak 10 and 10.

[Mike]

What about Chucky?

[JW]

Definitely not.

[Vachero]

13 and 7.

[Mike]

Oh, bum.

[Vachero]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike]

What about, what about Novak?

[Vachero]

10 and 10?

[Mike]

Bum.

[Vachero]

Yeah.

[Mike]

What about Roger Raji?

[Vachero]

6 and 14.

[Mike]

Fucking massive bum.

[JW]

Whoa.

[Mike]

Oh, my God. I didn't realize I was the best clay court player ever.

[Vachero]

Yeah, he started out own 11 on clay.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[JW]

If we, if we judge careers in 20 match intervals, you would be okay,

[Vachero]

so that all, all of them were in Houston.

[Mike]

By the way, that I was about

[JW]

to say,

[Mike]

you beat me to it. So I was going to say, okay, we've had our fun. Now can we be real about this? It was back when there was Atlanta and Houston, back to Back in the States, and it was pretty much you're just playing against other Americans whose favorite servers was also not clay. But in those two years between Atlanta, Houston, Houston, I think I put a 15 spot up on the board. So a little bit of an asterisk wins a win. But. So you actually sent that today in our group text. And I go, that's not right. That can't be right. There's no chance.

[JW]

That's right.

[Vachero]

Here we are. Here we are with new facts.

[JW]

Hat tip to the boys at the ATP for that one.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah. What. What a. What a dumb stat. What happened to me?

[Vachero]

I don't know.

[Mike]

Fuck. Oh, well.

[Vachero]

Houston. Is the tour even there anymore?

[Mike]

Yeah, Houston, close. It is.

[JW]

It is.

[Mike]

Atlanta is definitely not on clay anymore.

[Vachero]

Definitely not.

[Mike]

And Atlanta was. I'll do one better. Atlanta, which was the. The first one I won to start that streak, was on green clay. It wasn't even on red clay.

[Vachero]

Oh, my God.

[JW]

Yeah.

[Mike]

So here we are.

[JW]

The details.

[Mike]

Details. Just. Just keep reciting that stat. Jw, you're on site. Oh, one. One other thing I want to say real quick before we get to potential Serena news or speculation. Vachero pulled out of the tournament foot rough. There's a lot. I mean, there's a lot of. What is it, 20 plus pullouts, retirements, mid.

[Vachero]

Mid walkovers. It's like eight or something like that.

[JW]

Eight mid match retirements. Yep.

[Vachero]

And then we.

[Mike]

And then like 20 plus just withdraws.

[JW]

Retirements.

[Mike]

Yeah, A lot of hips and feet. And you don't like it?

[Vachero]

No, I don't know.

[Mike]

I was. I was told that the way the formatting was work, it was going to make players healthier.

[Vachero]

The extra day.

[JW]

Yeah, exactly. Wasn't all this in service of optimizing player health?

[Mike]

It was in service of something. Jw, what do you got for Serena Williams news?

[JW]

All right, so this has been the big chatter here. This is why I love podcasts. I don't know if you could properly, like, report this and get. This has been a lot of chatter about the Serena comeback and it is picking up steam. And I've heard she has. There have been multiple wild card requests for grass court season, which makes.

[Vachero]

I mean, all requests going to her or she putting in requests.

[JW]

She is putting in the request because

[Mike]

she's got to make requests for wildcard.

[JW]

Yeah, she's. She's got to make the request. I'm an event.

[Mike]

I'm calling her.

[Vachero]

I'm like, do you want a wildcard?

[JW]

Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, you may as well Preemptively do it. I mean, I think just backing up, like, you know, she's born in 1981. This is a woman in her mid-40s. She hasn't played in a while. She's still Serena Williams. I think this is great. I don't think anyone has any objection to this. This could be a wonderful, inspirational story. This could not work out. I don't think anyone cares. I mean, this is all being done with such sort of weird cloak and dagger and denials and secrecy. And I think the truth is this is awesome. And like, whatever it is, it is may. Maybe it's not anything that's going to pan out, but it does look like she will be playing the grass season. What I have heard is that she will be playing at Queen's club doubles with you guys. Want to guess her sister Victoria and Boko.

[Mike]

No, that's cool.

[Vachero]

That's awesome.

[Mike]

I hope that. I hope that all happens. I know I'm. I know too much on the story. So what I will. What I'll say, because again, I don't think as soon as you reenter doping protocols, which happened six or eight months ago, you do that because you want the option of coming back, right? Maybe you don't know if you're coming back or not, but at the very least, you're thinking really hard about it and you want to be free and clear. If you are at Roland Garros and decide you want to play on the grass, very, very, very pragmatically, right? And I know this isn't a pragmatic decision. I'm sure there's emotion. I'm sure there's, you know, the champions mentality, ego and like, what if. And all of this stuff. And if you enter doping protocols, you're looking to come back, or at least you're looking at the option to come back. And if you do that in your Serena Williams, I got to think, I. Is she gonna be faster than when she left? I don't know. I mean, she looks like, fantastic shape. And I think you could say her best chance of, like, lightning in a bottle in this comeback is that is on grass at Wimbledon. So it would lend itself to saying, like, grass is not a surface that you can just pop up and. And do it like. Yeah, so this, this makes. I know it's like earth shattering news when it. When it comes out, and if it comes out that she's officially coming back. But also, Serena Williams can't just say, like, oh, yeah, I'm going to come back, guys, we'll see in a little bit, like, she. That her world doesn't operate that way. Like, she has to kind of like, what's the. If she's not sure in November and reenters doping protocols, can she say, I'm coming back? Like, she can't do anything quietly. She's fucking Serena Williams. What are her options there?

[JW]

The Andrea Petkovich. I will sell her out. No, we love her. She's fantastic. But she goes even further, and she says, you are not making yourself available to testers. And all the things we've spoken about many times with Whereabouts if you're only doing it for doubles? So I'll pin that on Petko. But she thinks there's a singles comeback there just by. You wouldn't enter the doping protocol just for doubles. But I think Serena. I mean, honestly. You know what it sounds like this is. I mean, I've heard, like, members of the camp are mobilizing to go to. I think first to Queens Club and then to Berlin. It'll start out as doubles. She'll get a wild card into Berlin doubles. If you look at the singles field for Berlin, by the way, it's absolutely insane. It's like nine of the top 10 players are entered in Berlin. So that's not where you're going to kick off a singles comeback. But, you know, I think this makes a lot of sense. You mentor a younger player, you play doubles. You see how your body holds up. You see how you're hitting the ball. And if it goes well, maybe it's a Wimbledon wild card. Maybe you even kick it to the US Open and wait for hardcore.

[Mike]

It's not a different.

[JW]

I think this all makes. We don't think this makes.

[Mike]

We don't have time on this, jw. Like, you don't have time to wait around for singles. Like, we're not.

[JW]

You think she's coming out of retirement just to play doubles?

[Mike]

No, that's what I'm saying. Like, I think this is minimum. I think. What? Like, I think this crazy news you're reporting or that you're. You're hearing.

[JW]

Hearing.

[Mike]

Hearing. Not reporting. Sorry. 60 Minutes. Realistic standards.

[JW]

Yeah.

[Mike]

I thought we just make shit up on a podcast. Can we not.

[Vachero]

You definitely can't make it up.

[Mike]

Okay. No, I just. I don't know that she does all this. And, like, the only thing I would say. And, you know, we were actually texting last week. I think the world of Petkovich as a. As a commentator. I think she's fantastic. Love her work. And the only caveat With, I agree with her. I think we're going to see Serena Williams play singles. So it's an agreement. And I do think the only thing that is a little bit of a, you know, doubles motivated thing is her sister is also not retired yet. So would you do it for your sister for one last run at the US Open or something like that? Yes, and I said that, you know, eight months ago. So that's the only caveat because, you know, any version of sense would say,

[JW]

wait, wait, wait, wait, hold. But I mean, first of all, just to be clear, Petkovich said this on the air, so I'm not violating anything. But, but just, I mean, so, so wait, are, are you saying you don't think she's playing singles?

[Mike]

No, I think she's going to play, I think she's gonna play singles. I, I don't think she plays only doubles and then plays singles at Wimbledon. I think she's gonna play singles, but I, I, I think there's a half a chance she plays singles before that. I just don't see at this point in her life like where she's, you know, 40s coming back. How many shots of the basket are you going to have on your best service in singles again, if that's your intent? I don't think she can skip Wimbledon this year in singles. Like, I think if you're going to come back, I think you got to go. We'll see.

[JW]

I, you know, if she does, I'll tell you. You want a little, you want a little gossip, you want a little behind the scenes British tax laws or I can't remember where I heard anyway, all, all these, all these grass courts are moving to Germany because British tax laws have become very strict about how many days you're in the country and how much you're winning. So a lot of these. So look at the field at Queens Club versus the field at, in the German events at Berlin on the women's side. If she's going to come back at singles, wouldn't you do it in Queens Club where the draw cut off? I mean, I don't know, I don't have in front of me, but this Berlin field is absolutely crazy. You don't want to go and play your first match back and you're draw Ana Samova or something in round draw Sabalenka in the first round. Wouldn't you, if you were going to do it, wouldn't you rather do it the Queens Club week and play someone ranked 66 and not at this crazy stack Berlin event?

[Mike]

Yeah, Most of us would. We're also not Serena Williams. I can tell you exactly.

[JW]

It's a great story, though.

[Mike]

I can. I can tell you exactly how many of the names you just mentioned of those top 10. Nine of the top 10. How many of those want to see Serena Williams in that draw, in that spectacle after she hasn't played for years? First round of Berlin.

[JW]

That's a.

[Mike]

This many.

[JW]

No win.

[Mike]

Zero.

[Vachero]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Goggles, nobody. No. Thanks. A would shock me. Zero. At this point, I'd be more surprised if she didn't come back just to put a bow on it. Like, I think we're going to see her play professional tennis.

[Vachero]

Can't wait.

[JW]

Let's just be glitch. I was going to say let's just, like, be glitz level. Like, which is great. There's no, you know, I don't know

[Vachero]

anyone that has partner at the US Open. Who would.

[Mike]

Who would be mad at this? I've heard that. Who would be mad at this? Nobody. Nobody.

[JW]

Oh, some contrarian. For the sake of being contrarian. But I drop Serena. No, but seriously, I hope this is conveyed to the camp like, this is awesome. Everybody wants to see this, and if it doesn't result in yet another Wimbledon title, it's all good. We're all looking forward to this. Ignore the gratuitous haters and just go, if you want to do this, do it.

[Mike]

Yes. Imagine if, like, imagine if the Yankees were an independent contractor and they had not been in tennis for five years and someone's like, should we bring the Yankees back? Yeah, we should retire.

[JW]

They're tarnishing their legacy.

[Mike]

You know who says that? Jw People with no legacies. Hate is going to hate. Yeah, fuck that. I will put it in my veins. I want Serena back on the tennis court. That would be unbelievable. I hope it happens. Jw, best of luck in Paris. Do we have anything else?

[JW]

Pleasure, gentlemen.

[Mike]

This has been kind of a long, quick served, but quick served nonetheless. Brought to you by ServiceNow JW. I'll see you on the old television set tomorrow.

[JW]

Arthur Rindernish match. See you tomorrow.

[Mike]

We'll see you back here for a Day 5 recap tomorrow at Rolling Girls. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built on. With the ServiceNow AI platform, your AI data and workflows all work together, connecting every corner of your business to how you can put AI to work for people. Visit servicenow.com AI agents,

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[Mike]

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