2026 MID-ROME HEADLINES: Djokovic & Sabalenka FALL, Fonseca OUT, Jodar Advances

Summary

Podcast Summary

Served with Andy Roddick

Episode: 2026 MID-ROME HEADLINES: Djokovic & Sabalenka FALL, Fonseca OUT, Jodar Advances
Date: May 12, 2026
Host(s): Andy Roddick, Jon (“JW”) Wertheim, Sean, Producer Mike

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the chaos and shifting narratives from the mid-point of the Rome tennis tournament. The high-profile early exits of Aryna Sabalenka and Novak Djokovic prompt a lively debate about the evolving state of dominance in both the men's and women's draws ahead of Roland Garros. The hosts discuss breakthrough runs, the infectious energy of rising stars, and broader existential questions about tennis’ tour economics, player boycotts, and the fandom around new faces.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sabalenka’s Back-to-Back Early Losses: Is It a Cause for Concern?

(02:03 – 15:00)

• Sabalenka’s recent defeats: Drop in form after losing tightly to Hailey Baptiste in Madrid and Sorana Cirstea in Rome ("seven-six in the third, then seven-five in the third" – [02:45] JW).
• Injury caveat: Sean points out Sabalenka took a medical timeout for back and hip issues ([04:08]).
• Ripple effect: Andy and JW agree – Sabalenka’s losses don’t make her a crisis candidate, but they embolden the women’s field heading into Roland Garros.

  “She’s judged against her own shadow now. She’s created this level of consistency that’s absurd...So then all of a sudden she has two bad tournaments and we’re going, hey, this is strange, it’s different, it’s weird.” — Andy ([04:19])

• Physical vs mental fragility: Both hosts emphasize Sabalenka is physically robust and does not have a reputation for “choking.” Even her losses are razor-thin ([12:06] JW and Andy).
• Women’s draw: Wide open:

  “All of a sudden you’re thinking to yourself, this field is really open.” — JW ([07:20])

• Sabalenka’s “worst surface” argument: Despite clay not being her strength, Sabalenka is still considered a favorite at Roland Garros ([14:14] Andy).

Memorable Exchange

JW: “For as much as she wins, for as much as she plays deep reliably into majors…does she lose a lot of tight matches? ... She’s mentally as tough as they come, but she also ... loses a lot of tight matches too.” ([12:06])

---

2. Sorana Cirstea’s Late-Career Surge

(15:16 – 17:50)

• JW recounts Cirstea’s career arc:

  “She’s 36 years old now, she said this is my last year...and [this win] is the biggest of her career.” ([15:24])

• Freedom of “last year” effect: The hosts joke about retirement years becoming “rocket fuel” for players' form (reference to Danielle Collins).
• Will she really retire?: Speculation about whether Cirstea will actually quit if this form continues ([17:12]).

---

3. Djokovic’s Early Loss: Not Time to Panic

(20:56 – 26:51)

• Novak loses to Croatian qualifier: The hosts remain unshaken.

  “We said the same ... Lost to someone ... in these small tournaments and then he gets to the semis of every grand slam.” — Andy ([21:28])

• Unprecedented selective tournament schedule:

  “This is unprecedented though—the way for basically two years now, [Djokovic’s] like, ‘I’m playing when I want, how I want.’” — JW ([23:18])

• Will he ramp up before Roland Garros?: Talk about Geneva as a warmup; concern that “match play” still matters, but no one wants to bet against Novak at a Slam ([25:42]).
• Novak’s motivation:

  “He needs someone to come out and say, like, he's cooked, and then... he’ll make the finals.” — Andy ([25:11])

---

4. Sinner’s Rising Status & The Men’s Field

(27:02 – 34:18)

• Sinner’s domination: With Alcaraz and others injured, Sinner is increasingly the Roland Garros favorite.
• Comparison to Rafa’s prime:

  “Is Sinner as heavy a favorite going into Roland Garros as Rafa used to be?” — Andy ([28:44])

• JW argues Sinner isn’t at Rafa’s historic level, but the field is uniquely compromised and “he’s the overwhelming favorite” right now ([29:10]).
• Novak vs Sinner hypothetical showdown: Discussion about how margins favor Sinner on clay versus Novak at this stage ([32:35]).

---

5. Breakout Energy: Fonseca, Crowd Craze, and Hype Silos

(37:06 – 46:12)

• Fonseca vs. Hamad Medjedovic in front of a wild Brazilian crowd in Rome:

  “It’s like a music festival...These silos of borderline obsession before [they’re] top five players.” — Andy ([37:40], [39:36])

• Discussion on young stars with cult followings: JW compares it to early Kournikova mania—but says the current waves (Fonseca, Jodar Ayala, etc.) are fun and a positive for tennis ([40:15]).
• Jannik Sinner’s Italian stardom:

  “He’s the Pope’s favorite player.” — JW ([43:04])

• Sinner’s personality is “not thirsty”: Andy and Sean note, Sinner’s relaxed coolness distinguishes him from the flashier Carlos Alcaraz ([42:49], [43:07]).

---

6. Analyzing Jodar Ayala’s Game and Potential

(46:12 – 51:42)

• Hodar’s playstyle: Andy breaks down Rafa Jodar Ayala’s easy power and dominance against adult players; consensus that he’s now in the mix as a Roland Garros quarters/semis threat, leapfrogging many established seeds.

  “If I gave you a list of 10 people and you take Zverev out for consistency...I think [Rafa Hodar Ayala] is on that list!” — Andy ([49:14])

• JW on Ayala’s rapid rise:

  “He’s made up a year and a half of ground in six months on another blue chip prospect.” ([46:38])

---

7. Boycott Talk & Player Revenue Shares

(52:51 – 63:55)

• Fan/industry debate on the value gap:

  “If right now they’re at 15% and they want to get to 22%, what is that 7%? What is being spent that can’t be spent on the players who are the center of all this?” — Sean ([53:33])

• Grand Slam revenue/prize money comparison: Discussion of U.S. Open revenue vs player compensation, questioning where the extra funds go ([53:57]).
• Why a boycott is unlikely:

  “It would be idiotic to boycott the French Open and then short side yourself for negotiations...” — Andy ([55:12])

• Slams vs the Tours:

  “The Tours pay out a much bigger percentage with much lower revenues…They are overextending way more than the Slams.” — Andy ([57:31])

• Tour leverage is limited: Withholding points from Grand Slams would undermine the ranking system ([59:55]).
• Good faith solution:

  “It would just be nice if the majors said…because it’s the right thing to do, we’re going to come in a little bit.” — JW ([60:23])

• Facilities vs. cash: JW: "They don’t give a shit about capital improvements…that’s literally like saying, I can’t give you a raise this year, but we’re going to get new toner for the printers." ([61:54])

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "She’s judged against her own shadow now." — Andy ([04:19])
• "This is her worst surface." — Andy on Sabalenka’s clay prowess ([14:14])
• "He’s a part time tennis player who’s still top four in the world all the time." — Andy on Djokovic's selective schedule ([23:07])
• "Is Sinner as heavy a favorite going into Roland Garros as Rafa used to be?" — Andy ([28:44])
• "He is 0% thirsty for anything past just winning…he’s very comfortable." — Andy on Sinner ([42:49])
• "He is overpowering grownups right now." — Andy on Jodar Ayala ([47:53])
• "You kind of have to fix your backyard before...if I’m going to be critical, I have to point out the tours are paying out too." — Andy ([57:31])
• "They want more prize money…that’s literally like saying, I can’t give you a raise this year, but we’re going to get new toner for the printers." — JW ([61:54])

---

Important Timestamps / Segments

• Sabalenka concern debate: 02:03 – 15:00
• Cirstea’s late-career run: 15:16 – 17:50
• Djokovic’s loss & motivation: 20:56 – 26:51
• Sinner’s favorite status: 27:02 – 34:18
• Fonseca, crowd hype, Ayala comparison: 37:06 – 46:12
• Jodar Ayala's technical breakdown: 46:12 – 51:42
• Player boycott, revenue share, tour politics: 52:51 – 63:55

---

Summary Tone & Style

The episode is conversational, irreverent, and deeply insider—all while demystifying tennis’ latest headlines for both diehards and casual fans. Andy, JW, and Sean bounce off each other with quick wit, skepticism, and genuine adoration for the sport’s unpredictability.

---

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is essential for understanding the current volatility in tennis: top stars can be toppled, new names are seizing fandom, and the financial/political undercurrents of the sport are as relevant as the on-court action. The hosts’ candid, informed banter mixes sharp technical analysis with industry wisdom, giving you everything you need to follow narratives into Roland Garros and beyond.

Transcript

[Andy]

So good, so good, so good.

[Ad]

Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom Rack stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love like Vince, Sam, Edelman, Frame and free people. Join the NordicLub to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack ready. To soundtrack your summer with Red Bull Summer All Day Play. You choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end dj, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit red bull.com brightsummera ahead to learn more. See you this summer.

[Andy]

This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I watch tennis, I think about tennis, I talk about tennis. But even dream jobs have not so dreamy parts. The stuff that gets in the way of the actual work, that's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work, they actually do it. Start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. That way you and your team can focus on the work that matters. Which for me is explaining at length why tennis players are the best athletes on earth. Sorry, everyone else on earth. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. Hey everyone. Welcome to serve. Brought to you by ServiceNow subscribe because I don't know, we like it, we need it. We want to keep doing this.

[Sean]

Yeah, I think so.

[Andy]

Okay, we'll keep doing it. JW in the house. Techie Sean, producer Mike, what's up? It's that old midweek special on the old 12 or 13 dayer. Here we are.

[Sean]

Here we are.

[Andy]

Let's just rock through the first round buys and all the other stuff. Obviously the biggest story from early Rome, you know, on top of continued dominance, on top of the storylines that are kind of trending from Madrid, Sabalenka loses. Obviously a massive story kind of shakes things up as far as name value. Novak loses and you know, I guess in a headline to Earth and you know, everyone else that I guess those are kind of the same but I view them completely through a completely different lens. Let's deal with Sabalenka's loss to Kirstea first. JW are we were like, I haven't been worried about Sabalenka in like five years. Are we. Are we worried about Sabalenka?

[JW]

I'd say worried. Ish. One of these things where we look at things in patterns and in segments, right? And she loses to Hailey Baptiste in Madrid, 76 in the third. It's clay, it's an exciting match, and you're like, all right, no one wins every match and good for Haley Baptiste. And then you get a second back to back event. Another tight match, different type of player. A player at a different point in their career. We can talk a little later about Kirstea, but seven five in the third. So she goes down seven six in the third in one match, seven five in the third, another. Suddenly she'll be the top seed. But remember, this is one of the majors she has never won. Came very close last year. I would say worried, but I would say that the plot is certainly thickened. And I think more importantly for the rest of the field, they should get a bit of a jolt of optimism because this is a very different discussion than what we were having two weeks ago. I don't know. I mean, I mean, we see this so many times, right, where we're. Players struggle in warmups and then it's. They reset. It's a major. It's a different event, different conditions, but I don't know. Two tight losses to players, neither of whom are in the top 20. When you have just won the sunshine double and you're trying to win a fifth major. Yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting fact pattern and much different than what we would have been talking about again 10, 14 days ago.

[Sean]

Can I caveat it? She did call a medical timeout midway through the third set for back and hip. So she didn't do a press afterwards. But I mean, is there real concern that some of this is more serious? Medical maybe.

[Andy]

I mean, we. We don't know. I mean, I listen. Yeah. Are we more concerned knowing that there was something, I mean, in. Sabalenka is not one who's calling the trainer all the time. Like, she plays these tough matches. Her fitness levels very underreported. Like, we never say like, oh, she looks tired ever. Right. We never say like, wear and tear. We never say like, any of these things because she's so primed and ready to go. I think that's why. So we have to like, level set here because people are gonna go, well, you're freaking out about something like. No, it's just she's judged against her own shadow now. She's created this Level of consistency, that's. That's absurd. So then all of a sudden she has two bad tournaments and we're going, hey, this is. It's strange, it's different, it's weird. It's not the precedent that she's set. It doesn't mean that we need to go into full crisis mode for worrying about Sabalenka. I promise you, I worry about a lot of people a lot more than I do about her. But to JW's point, the way that it works when it kind of, you have this dominant force, and I even want to turn back the clock in the last six or seven years, eight years, maybe nine years at Roland Garros. See, 2020 was a first time ego went okay, so 2020, has it been this open as far as maybe hope and as far as 2025 women, like, if you're Noskova and you've been playing well, are you going, I can win Roland Garros. If you're a Kostyuk, are you going, I can win Roland Garros. If Sabalenka is not in full form, and by the way, she can course correct that if she makes the second week of Roland Garros, then I don't think anything matters. But is she more susceptible to drawing someone in an awkward matchup early on without a ton of matches? Sure. That's the way it works. That's the way, you know, Sinner's on a. On a role that Sabalenko was where she was on cruise control and she was creating a habit of just winning every other day for the Sunshine Double Sinners on that role. Now, I mean, I guess he never gets off that role, but what this does. It doesn't mean that Sabalenka can't win the French Open. It doesn't mean that she's not the favorite. I still think she's the clear number one favorite going into Roland Garros. I don't know that you're going to get a lot of pushback. What this does is it goes, IGA's going okay. If I can just find some form, can I find something I know how to do? This arena's not playing her best. Coco is going, okay, maybe I can repeat this thing, you know, down the line for the women that are playing well. Pula's winning, you know, matches. Oh, and. Oh, and stuff. Right? Is she going, I, maybe I got a shot. I think that's the ripple effect from Sabalenka. It's less about us worried about Sabalenka as A tennis player, it's more the ripple effect of, and rightfully so, the rest of the two are going, if she's not quite as perfect and good as she normally is, does that open the door for the rest of us? 10 or 15%. And I think it does. Is that. Is that rational?

[JW]

Totally. I was going to say the same. I mean, the point we usually go to when we have this discussion is best of three versus best of five. And the sample size is bigger for the minimum. So of course the women's field is going to be open. But I would say beyond that, I think you nailed it. Go down the list and just, I mean, keep going. Right? I mean, Coco is the defending champion, and Pegula is a veteran we know can play deep in majors. And Andreeva saying, you know, shit, I can play on. I made this 70s two years ago. Keep going down that list. All of a sudden you're thinking to yourself, this field is really open. I think the highest seed. Tell me if I'm wrong here. I mean, you have Anisimova, who very easily could have been to the finals of this event pre Covid, and then Kostiuk, who is coming off a heater. Those are the two top seeds not to have played Rome. So even the players who have pulled out of this event are contenders in Paris. And yeah, I mean, if Sabalenka is coming in physically and. Or mentally with a little bit of a fracture, this field gets very interesting very fast. And I think given what I'm sure we're going to talk about on the men's side, where it's, you know, center. One battle after another, center on all comers. These are two very different fields, and I think the women's field is absolutely wide open.

[Andy]

Yeah. And I, I watched the match in Madrid start to finish with Sabalenka and, and, And Baptiste, I left that one going. Baptiste played great. That was, that was like. That was great tennis. That wasn't where, I mean, we, we kind of lose it, but Sabalenka torches a ball up the line, which basically would have set her up for winning the match. Mentions it by an inch. The. The swing was confident, right? Like, it, It's. It's there. I don't know that I felt that way watching the C A match. Right. I don't know that I can walk out of that going. You know, Baptiste is, is. Is strong, can handle the pace of Sabalenka, can, you know, mix it up a little bit more, is on a little bit of a heater, you know, we love Chris Stay and we certainly want to give her her flowers. But that's not the type of matchup where if she's getting looks at someone's serve and if someone can't go toe to toe with her, that's not the type of matches that, that, those aren't the type of matches that we're used to Sabalenka losing. Right. Just based on a. On matchup. No disrespect to Kirsteus, just maybe a matchup that Sabalenka has traditionally felt more, more comfortable in. Right. I'm more worried coming out of that where it's like, okay, you know, we're going to have to build something going into Roland Garros and you know, she's going to want to come out of the gates well in that tournament to not create like a little bit of, you know, weirdness moving forward. But I just think it's open season more so. And I hate, I don't want to be a victim of the moment more so than it's been in the last seven years, like pre ego domination at Roland Garros. Because we have to remember for many, many years and I think we forget this too quickly. It was Igor the field and that was the conversation for a long time, like more than half a decade. That was the, that, that was the conversation. IGA can get back in there. Right. She's trying to find something. Do you remember when she was also trying to find something going into Wimbledon last year? She can flip it. I know she's not playing as, she's not even close to playing as consistently well as she has in the past. It's there like people are jumping off that ship too quickly in my opinion. I think Coco's going, if I could. This is like I can find this. You know, I beat Sabalenka last year when it was nasty conditions and I got through it. Sabalenka had a great clay court run last year into Roland Garros. Less so this time. So I think what, it just creates that ripple effect of hope, I think for the rest of the tour. I'm not worried about Irina Sabalenka as a tennis player. Listen, she'll, she'll, she's still going to win. My, my, my major count for her isn't dependent on losing a match to Kristea in Rome. Yeah, but yeah, I mean it does and it should create a little bit more optimism if you're the rest of the field.

[Sean]

I mean, honestly, if she is, if she is battling some back and hip Issues, right?

[Andy]

She has time.

[Sean]

The time off is probably for her benefit.

[JW]

She has time and she's not going to play. You know, I mean, Novak is another story. Remember last year Novak played, I think it was Geneva and he beat her Kosh and he played that week. Sabalenka ain't playing until Roland Garros. So she's got, you know, she's got two weeks. You know, I mean, I do want to spare 90 seconds for Kirstea, who I find fascinating. But one more thing about Sabalenka real quick. Have you, you would never in a million years say she chokes or she's mentally sort of mentally fragile. You would never say that. For as much as she wins, for as much as she plays deep reliably into majors. And yet, man, does she win a lot.

[Andy]

She.

[JW]

Does she lose a lot of tight matches. I mean we've seen some players who, they just won't show up. And you know, top players, you know, Simona Holla routinely would drop sets like 6, 2, 62 sapling. It doesn't do that. But go back and look at her results and when she loses, there are a lot of matches that are just razor's edge matches and she gets the small end of the seven, five or the seven, six and the third. It's just, I mean, it's a really interesting fact pattern to me because she wins a lot of tight matches. She's mentally as tough as they come. But she also, she loses a lot of tight matches too.

[Andy]

She never loses easily, I'll tell you that. Like she, to your point, like she never, like last time you saw her lose like 2 and 3, right? Like it doesn't happen. Right. But she, I mean, to your point, jw, she plays high risk tennis. Like she, it's not as if she's out there, you know, finding her groove and putting balls in play. Every single ball is like this is, there's, there's intent. Like, you know, if you can get her to five, all she's going to go after it. She's going to miss sometimes. And I agree with this. In her calculation, that's going to be the most successful pattern over time. Right. Does she dial it back in those moments? No. No. Should she? No. Is she going to miss sometimes? Yep. Like that's what high risk does. It's not as if she's a safety player. Like, you know, it happens, you know, but like you drop a couple of them. We're humans, we don't get a free pass on, on circumstance.

[JW]

Right.

[Andy]

You get her to five all, and she's lost some matches. That's going to, you know, encourage people to try to kind of hang in there a little bit, a little bit more. I think two things can be true. Right. You know, it's just. And also, we need to say this about Sabalenka. And then I want. I want John to talk about Chris Staya for a second before we get on to Novak. But like, you know, Sabalenka, she just. She's kind of always there. Like, I'm not going to worry about. I'm just not going to worry about her too much. There's going to be some ebbs and flows, but, you know, she's. She's gonna be fine. This is her worst surface.

[Sean]

That's crazy.

[Andy]

Like, this is her worst surface. Like that. We do need to say that, like, we used to be able to, like, before everyone was like a. Like a multi surface genius, which wasn't the case until the last, you know, even 10 years. This is her worst service, and we still expect her to be the favorite. That's not totally normal or hasn't been normal in the past. This is her worst service. This is the part of the year where if you're going to get her, you should get her. Here we are. Anyways.

[JW]

She's still your favorite.

[Andy]

Yeah. I don't know how she's not the favorite for Olin Garrett. I just. I dare. Listen, if any. If any of you said, I'll take this single player against Saba, I said, okay, let's empty our wallets. No problem. Like, I got that covered. No sweat.

[JW]

Right.

[Andy]

You know, now her versus the field, maybe you take the field. And that hasn't always been the case in the last two years when you're going into events. But yeah, it's definitely shifted. Listen, Novak loses. I know. It's a big storyline. He loses to like.

[Sean]

Did you want to have him talk about Kursta first?

[Andy]

Oh, sorry. Excuse me. Yes, that's what I meant. I meant, not Novak. I meant Kirstea. Jw, please.

[JW]

They're very hard to keep apart.

[Andy]

No, I just.

[JW]

I'm fascinated by this. Okay, so here comes Saronica. I'll tell you a quick story. Remember Adidas used to do those camps in Las Vegas with Gil Reyes and Darren Cahill? I believe.

[Andy]

I think.

[JW]

I think. I hate attributing quotes to people who may not have said it, but I believe it was Darren Cahill who's like, we've got a girl here. She's incredible. This was like almost 20 years ago. Keep an eye on Serana Kirstea. Big hitting Romanian Roland Garros, quarter finalist, 2009. And she's had her share of injuries. She sort of had a bit of an up and down career. She's 36 years old now. She said, this is my last year. And she may, she won again today. She may well hit her top ranking. You know, when you used to say, it's my last year, it would sort of, ha, ha, ha, we'd give you a role, you know, we'd give you the rocking chair and you'd make the rounds and everybody would sort of. You'd lose your match and you'd get a little gift from the tournament. Lately we've seen players, we saw it with Danielle Collins a few years ago saying, it's my last year has been this weird, like, career rocket fuel. Do you have thoughts on that? I mean, is it just something as simplistic as, like, the pressure's off and now I can go for broke. But anyway, serana Chris Dais, 36 years old and is perhaps playing the best tennis for her career. This is, this is the biggest win of her career. And it's just, it's funny to me that players say, you know what, I'm winding things down and all of a sudden they're putting up these crazy results.

[Andy]

Yeah, I guess the fuck it mechanism comes in. It's like, ah, fuck it. Let's just, like, let's just, let's let it rip. Now the question is, and this is pure, this is just pure projection of curiosity. If you're 36, you start playing really well. Yeah, I don't know, like, it's JW Mike ticket right now. Do we see Kirstea at the Australian Open in 2027?

[Sean]

I mean, she's 23 and 7, I think this year with a singles title already, like, why not keep going?

[Andy]

I'm, I'm. If I have, like, push comes to shove, I'm going, yes. J.W.

[JW]

honey, it's my last hand of blackjack, I swear.

[Andy]

Just split aces, like.

[JW]

Yeah, yeah, I don't, I mean, honestly,

[Andy]

she's getting two six and doubling down. Two sixes and doubling down right now

[JW]

all of a sudden, like, my stack just got higher.

[Andy]

Yeah. I don't know.

[JW]

I mean, we saw the same thing with Danielle Collins. Different set of circumstances, but yeah, why, why walk away when you're playing this level of tennis and Serana Criste is bringing it?

[Andy]

Yeah. Listen, props to her. Way to go. It's a fun story. It's going to be interesting to see, you know, will she, won't she the rest of the way? I don't know. I'm sure she's getting asked about it. I haven't seen the follow ups and the quotes and I'm sure she'll keep saying this is my last year because it seems to be good for business. But anyways, cool story, good job. Fantastic, fantastic work against Sabalenka. One of the best parts about life on tour genuinely was the travel. Every week a new city, new culture, new spots that I think about. I still think about these spots. There's a restaurant in Wimbledon Village that I've been going back to for 20 years. That's what the tour does to you. And here's the thing nobody talks about enough. Some of the best memories you make out there aren't even on the court. It's the random Tuesday night with your team, somewhere you've never been before. That's the stuff that sticks. So Served is heading to London. We're going on the ground for Wimbledon, doing our quick serve coverage right from a beautiful home near Wimbledon Village, a home that we found on Airbnb. And honestly, it's exactly what we need. A real home base with plenty of room for family and friends to settle in. It even has an English garden, which I think is just like a normal garden, but it's in England. Listen, over the next few months, fans like me are going to be flooding into cities like London, Paris and Montreal to catch tennis action live. Hotels fill up fast, so if you're in one of those cities or anywhere else on the tour calendar and you're planning to be away, you can list your place on Airbnb and help meet the demand while making a little extra on the side. Your place might be exactly what a visiting fan like me is looking for. Not just somewhere to stay, but part of the whole trip. The matches, the city, the atmosphere and the memories that stick long after the tournament's over. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere of the crowd. But too often, life gets busy or the price holds you back. Priceline is here to help you make it happen. With millions of deals on flights, hotels and rental cars, you can go see the game live. Don't just dream about the trip. Book it with Priceline, download the Priceline app or visit priceline.com Actual prices may vary, limited time offer flowing ad budget

[Ad]

on metrics that look great til the CFO sees them. That's bullspend and marketers are calling it out. In Dashboard Confessions.

[Andy]

I remember telling my boss, it'll be

[JW]

good for the brand.

[Andy]

When leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't.

[Ad]

Cut the bull. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title and More. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com campaign terms and conditions apply.

[Andy]

At first I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place.

[JW]

Pluto tv.

[Andy]

Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows and they were all free.

[JW]

It's just so Beautiful on Pluto TV.

[Andy]

Free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe, Arrow, the 100 and the X Files may cause excitement, loss of sleep and sudden belief in extraterrestrials. No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV stream now. Pay Never. We're not worried about Novak at this point, right? Like he's kicking tires, he's kicking rust off and then all of a sudden, you know, are you, are you, are you more worried than I am about it, jw? I mean, I guess it has to give out at some point, right?

[JW]

You know what? I'm not worried about him. I'm not worried about it. I just. This match prep, you can't just rock up to best of five unless you're Novak.

[Sean]

I don't know.

[Andy]

We said the same. I could, I could rewind our show from last year at this point and maybe we try it and I bet we would be having the same conversation.

[Sean]

I mean, can we, can we stay? He lost, you know, in the second round, right? He lost. He lost, yeah, yeah. To a 20 year old Croatian qualifier. Yeah, right. And he's just like whatever.

[Andy]

I mean, I don't like it takes a certain level of confidence to not. I mean, you're going in there. He hasn't had match prep. You can't. We don't know what he's been doing. Right? Like, I don't think he's going to rock up, but I mean, last year he did the same thing. Lost to someone. It was, was it was to be low or was that two years ago? Anyways, he's been rocking up and losing in these small tournaments and then he gets to the semis of every grand slam. So like right now, jw, is he in the semis of Roland Garros? I promised myself I wouldn't bet against him again. So I'm not, I can't, I just can't do it. But is he in the semis or rolling girls?

[JW]

If you were going to handicap this field right now, this let's, you know, timestamp this, this is an advance of Rome Finn, he's number two. I mean, I just, I don't know. I mean, flip side, can I, can I be the, can I be the ogre here? Can I be the jerk if he loses?

[Sean]

Sure.

[Andy]

That'd be a great change of pace.

[Sean]

If he, if he loses.

[JW]

All right, if he, if he does not do what he's done the last four majors, if he loses to, you know, some unseated player in the first round or two, do you think he says, you know what, it's been a hell of a ride. I mean, if you can still rock up to majors and make semifinals and finals the way he has been consistently great. But at some point you need some match play, don't you?

[Andy]

I mean, I just, I, I mean I, I respect would, but I, I mean he's just, he's like a part time tennis player who's still top four in the world all the time. When he shows up, like it's, it's,

[JW]

I'll, I'll tell you something else. This is, this is unprecedented. I mean, I looked even Serena, I mean, go back, go back and this, this is unprecedented though the way for basically two years now, he's like, I'm playing when I want. How I, you know.

[Andy]

But he's losing all. It's not as if he's playing when he want, when he likes. The difference was Serena's like, I'm gonna play when I want, but I'm still making the semis and off weeks non, non slam tournaments and winning, winning those.

[JW]

Yeah, that's what I mean.

[Andy]

He's, he's not like it's been a minute.

[JW]

That's what I mean.

[Andy]

I mean he won at the end of last year and then basically, you know, shook hands. I remember shook hands with. Said he is like, nah, bro, you go to world Tour finals, my season's, my season's over. So he's, he's won some tournaments but like master series and places where he's like, you know, been dominant in the past. He's like, I don't know, like, I mean there's, there's never been anyone, I don't think that rocks up to a tournament, loses to a 20 year old qualifier. Fire. And we're going, ah, they're fine.

[Sean]

Yeah, I mean, it's. We're good after the match. He said it. You know, obviously, I see what I'm missing. Late half a step. I'm. I'm not definitely where I want to be for the highest level and to compete at the highest level and to be able to go far. And then later was asked if he felt confident he'd be in good shape for Roland Garros. He replied, I don't know. I hope so. I mean, just like.

[Andy]

Yeah, I mean, I like.

[Sean]

Like he's rope a doping the world right now, probably. I feel like.

[Andy]

Like, he.

[JW]

He played. He played six matches in Australia, right?

[Andy]

And he.

[JW]

And, you know, got Sinner. He beat Sinner, beat center and won six matches and took the first. We forget. You know, we Forget this, too. 6, 2 over Carlos in the first season. The guy's like. And then he wins two. Two matches at Indian Wells, and that's his winning. He's won two matches since Australia. Now he's gonna try to win a 25th major. I give him all the credit in the world. This is unprecedented.

[Andy]

It's absurd. It's like he's going, he's going. He's going. All right, all you idiots.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Andy]

Why don't you guys. Why don't you all bet against me? Do it. Like, he needs. He needs someone to come out and say, like, he's cooked, and then he'll make. And then if someone. If someone comes out and just says he's Cookie Magoo, then I'll bet on him to take the finals. Oh, my gosh. He needs. He needs to. He's pretty good at manufacturing things to. To be chippy about, so we'll see where he goes. But, I mean, we got to think that we'll, you know, he's got to get some matches before rolling Garros. Right? I mean, he has to. He can't just cruise in.

[JW]

You think he plays Geneva again?

[Andy]

He did it last year and it worked. Like, I don't. I. I think so. I would again, like, I might be down 20 just on my. My. My thoughts on this episode. But, like, yeah, I mean, I think you have to play something. Like, I think you have to go get three or four matches, you know, but then it's like, it's a year on. Can he go play five matches in Geneva and then rock up two days later and play another tournament? You're basically, you know, essentially putting yourself in position where if things go well, you're playing three weeks in A row. I mean, I cannot. I won't. I've been. I've put too much stock and you know it's going to. The bottom is going to fall out at some point.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Andy]

You know, it's. You can't just keep. You can't be 44 and not playing and then rocking up and going, semis.

[Sean]

There you are. With that word. Can't. With that word, can't. Watch me.

[Andy]

He said he's. The world says I can't do it when I'm 44.

[Sean]

You said can't.

[Andy]

You said, I can't do it when I'm 44. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not like, the draw is going to come out and I'm going to see it and it's going to be the same thing. If he gets to the first three, he's going to win the round. It's just like, it's going to be the same shit over and over.

[Sean]

I know. And then you have guys like Arthur Feast, right. Like, that just withdrew with it with a.

[Andy]

So I got a question.

[Sean]

And it's not like the field is so stacked, obviously.

[Andy]

Massive. When Carlito says, I'm not playing Roland Garros. Right. So then shifts even more to center since then rolls in Madrid during your meeting, he won two and. Oh. Against Popper. This is Monday morning meeting. Tuesday. Like, the morning meeting lasted longer than his match.

[Sean]

My coffee was finished brewing and I was like, it's over.

[Andy]

Yeah. It's like. And now you look at, like, the. The people that we've kind of built up as, like those. That next tier. Right. Feast has been playing amazingly well. Center took care of him very handily in Madrid, like 2 and 4. And it was like, maybe not that close. Is hurt a little bit. Like his hip didn't feel right. And hopefully he gets healthy and is ready. And it's minor Draper. It's been a minute. He hasn't kind of found his footing again. But like someone like a Draper Zverev. I mean, I don't know that we can sit here and say. Anyone can say, like, oh, yeah, let's, let's. Let's make the format longer and that'll help his chances against Yannick. Right. I mean, so I got a question for you. J.W.

[Sean]

draper's out of the French up.

[Andy]

No, I know. That's what I'm saying.

[Sean]

Crazy.

[Andy]

Well, what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I see what you're doing. All these people that are like, this Next thing, Carlos goes down and then he becomes a heavy favorite. I think he's only become more of a favorite based on circumstance. Like Novak is going. I don't know. Are you ready for the run now? Fuck it. We'll see.

[JW]

I don't know.

[Andy]

Maybe. And he's. JW's going. He's second favorite. If he's second favorite under undercooked or Zverev is like, you know, he's the most likely to get to a final or a semi. But that matchup doesn't look like it's getting any better. I got a question for you, jw.

[JW]

Oh, man.

[Andy]

Is Sinner as heavy a favorite going into Roland Garros as Rafa used to be going into Roland Garros specifically this year?

[JW]

Oh, that's a good one. Oh, man.

[Andy]

Get that headline ready, techie. Sean, that's a good one.

[JW]

Thanks for the. Thanks for the lead.

[Andy]

Here it is. Here's the short and three days.

[JW]

I'm going to say no for three reasons.

[Andy]

Okay.

[JW]

You want them a no?

[Andy]

I'd. I'd like that to be the end of the segment.

[Sean]

I know.

[JW]

Let's go. Serrano, Christea, step right up. What else we got to discuss? No, I think it's a great. It's a great question. I think the guy's never even worn this event before. I think it's a little hard to. I mean, the favorite absolutely a Rafa level favorite when he's never won before. I also think I would not want to be in a Showdown match against 39. You know, it's a week from Friday. I was just looking this up. A week from Friday is the draw. I believe it's also Novak's 39th birthday. 39. If Jannik sinner, Novak Djokovic on the other side of the net. A showdown. 25th major on the line. Oldest major champion in history. Everything that goes with it in this is the guy who beat you. I think Jannik wants Novak to lose almost as much as Novak wants Sinner to lose. And then I just think like weight of the occasion in Europe. Let's not shortchange just how dominant Rafa was. I do think Sinner is the overwhelming favorite. I think he's against the field. I mean, this Rafa was basically like, who's playing for second place, boys? I don't know. I think mostly he's the one that.

[Andy]

I'm not saying that the comparison is over 20 years at the event. I'm saying in a silo with. I mean, you could argue his next his next five challengers are all compromised in some way, shape or form. Right?

[JW]

Like, how many straight sets has he won against Vera?

[Andy]

Now imagine going 77. Like it's absurd. That's what I'm saying. To me, the conversation. Because you don't want to be disrespectful to Rafa. He's the best I've ever seen on any surface. And to me it's not close, right? Like I don't know that you can go. And I know everyone is like, well, Alcaraz and Sinner would beat him up. No, the lefty of things. And where you have to. Even with this dominant as Sinner has been. No, right. This isn't. To me, this isn't me saying this isn't a sinner versus Rafa conversation. This is a. If Rafa's 90% to go through. 80, 90% to go through. You're telling me Sinners. Not that right now, jw.

[JW]

It's a big number. It's a big number. I'm, you know, I'm in the background

[Andy]

going to be 102 degrees. His Voldemort. His Voldemort doesn't exist in Paris.

[JW]

Wait, hold on. That was my. That was my third. That was my third factor. First, first. I mean, again, like none of this is to diminish center. Let's be clear. I mean, this run he's on is just a joke. That disclaimer out of the way. Never won the event before. I do think better call Seoul Sol for the rest of the field. That's my pun for the day. I do think the heat, heat on a hot day is a variable. But also, wait, go back to this point though. You've got. We saw this at the Paris Olympics, right? I mean, a motivated locked in like lion tamer. I mean, Novak goes into a showdown match against Sinner, 39 years old. This is what I'm out here for. This is my opportunity. The other guy's not even posting. I beat this guy at the last major. I mean, imagine the pep talk Novak would give himself.

[Andy]

Yeah, I know, I know you're not buying that. Here's what I think. More time on the ball, less secure footing when you're giving up half a step is not a better situation than Australia where Sinner went two for a million on break points and you went like 5 for 7. Like you took the narrow margins and you threaded the needle and won six three or six, four in the fifth, right? And you kind of had to thread that needle. I think those margins on Clay versus center right now, specifically in this matchup, not to say a center is a better clay quarter than prime Novak. So don't, don't get it twisted. The margins for Novak in a path to beat him three out of five sets, specifically on clay, when sinner will have more time on the ball to create speed. I think the margins are even narrower for Novak in that scenario. So I think it would be a bigger upset at the French Open than it would be at Australia for Novak against center. So I don't. I know the question I asked you is ridiculous on premise. And then when I go through my. When I go through, like the X's and O's of who, what, where, why? I don't know. I mean, he's in a silo purely this year. This isn't a Rafa, you know, this isn't a representation of Rafa over the course of 15 years. This is a. Purely based on this person going in. Are they the favorite based on what the field is giving back to them right now? I don't know. I'm not. I don't. I don't think it's a nutty question. I don't think it's a nutty question.

[JW]

I want to add this up in my head real quick. This is what happens when we just riff and we don't necessarily prepare. Maybe you guys can help me. Can you name me another major tournament in recent memory where the one seed has not only beaten the two seed, you know, nine times in a row, but has won 13 straight sets against the guy who's obligated on the other side of the draw to try and beat him?

[Andy]

So fortunately, I think I probably can keep. I'm going. I'm going. Carry the two like, oh, five fish. Maybe. I don't. Yeah, this is this. Yeah. If there's an answer, I could probably find it in the mirror. Let's break. We'll come back afterwards and I'll clean up my tears.

[Sean]

We'll talk some fats.

[Andy]

AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built on. With the ServiceNow AI platform, your AI data and workflows all work together, connecting every corner of your business. To see how you can put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.

[Ad]

This is a Bose moment. You've been there. Small talks going nowhere. But then the Bose speaker kicks in. Music you can feel fills the room. And no more chat with Dani from Accounts. Your life deserves music. Your music deserves Bose. Find your perfect [e-mail]. one crunchy bite of her Hershey's cookies and cream bar. And I'm taken right back to college. Move in Day I was a little overwhelmed by the newness of it all. Boxes were everywhere. I needed a break from unpack. But just as I was able to take a breath and open my Hershey's cookies and cream bar, my new roommate Rachel walked in. I offered her a piece, but she said no. Then after a beat, she said, actually, those are my favorite ones. We left, the ice was broken, and we've been friends ever since.

[JW]

Hershey's.

[Andy]

It's your happy place. Hi, diva.

[Ad]

It's Rachel and Jordan.

[JW]

Yeah, hi.

[Andy]

Quick question.

[Ad]

Why are you not spending your Venmo balance? Yeah, we're concerned you can, like, buy stuff with it.

[Andy]

Ugh. You love buying stuff.

[Ad]

And earn cash back on eligible purchases.

[Andy]

Love purchasing eligible things.

[Ad]

So the money your friend sent you yesterday, that's today's ramen or rideshare or eye patches.

[JW]

The skincare kind, not the pyro kind.

[Ad]

Spend with Venmo, and you can earn cash back with Venmo stash. Venmo stash bundle terms and Exclusions apply. Max $100 cash back per month. See terms@venmo me. Terms, Idaho. Verification required to use a Venmo balance.

[Andy]

All right, and we're back from Breaks served Service now. Subscribe. Mike, you were. You were. You were referencing Fonseca loses to Hamad Medjedovich. Yes, but water's wet. And the Brazilians were going.

[Sean]

I mean, the scene.

[Andy]

The scene was absolutely.

[Sean]

The scene was absolutely absurd. I mean, I think. I think on the socials, it was more about when the guy. When the guy beat Fonseca, he gave the sleep. He put them all to sleep.

[Andy]

But it's because the old Steph Curry.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, the old Steph Curry. But for two and a half hours, this Brazilian crowd in Rome was absolutely absurd. Sean, play. Play this clip. This is. This is Fonseca serving 5. 5 in the third. He's getting the tennis balls right now. For you guys listening on audio, it's 5. 5 in the third. This is the crowd. And the scene is like, people.

[Andy]

I mean, it's like a music festival.

[Sean]

It looks like a freaking music festival. He is. The players are coming back to the baselines right now. This is still going.

[Andy]

Medovich has. I mean, I'm just saying. He's got, like, some. Almost like karats of caps there, by the way.

[Sean]

Also, Fonsega is serving right now. Like, he's hitting the ball right now. Crowd's still going Nuts.

[Andy]

I mean, this is so much fun.

[Sean]

This is a. That's so, like, rock star stuff.

[Andy]

I want to be. I want to be in that, like, on either side of it, by the way.

[Sean]

Like, it's incredible. And granted, both players were like, afterwards, we're like, this is a little frustrating. Both players say that, but it's not amazing.

[Andy]

And it's not. Yeah. And the thing is, like, that. That's. That's what you want to play in. Like, those types of atmospheres is like, put it in my veins. I'm either going to be the guy who shot Bambi, or I'm like, everyone loves me. Like, this is. That's a great situation to be in. Can we say that we'll get canceled at some point? Hopefully not this week. I mean, it's. It. That's not easy if you're Fonseca, too.

[Sean]

He. He alluded to that at the end.

[JW]

He talked about that. Yeah, he said that.

[Andy]

It's. It's this thing where he doesn't have. He. He can't, like, melt into a top. Being a top 10 player. Like, it's just this craziness. And we're seeing it with, like, Fonseca, and we're seeing it with Yala, and we're seeing, like, these silos of borderline obsession before people are like, top five players, you know? And then you get to, like, I'm curious your thoughts on one those silos, jw and like, have we seen it before? Is it unprecedented? Are we just acting like it's new and it's been there before? Are there reasons? And then also we keep saying how popular sinner is in Italy and Fognini. And by the way, all of you who are like, why are you calling Fognoni? I go, because I've called him Fognoni for 20 years in the locker room. Shut up. I know how to say his name. God, you. So I love.

[Sean]

Thank you for all those comments. I loved screen grabbing them and sending them to Andy. Oh, I was just.

[Andy]

I'm like, I know how I. What do you think they say? Advantage. What? Oh, God, Fognini. Well, it's disrespectful. It's disrespectful. Okay, sorry, side tangent. But jw, just give us a couple of little nuggets on this craziness still around Fun Seka, the Yala movement are the two most obvious ones.

[Sean]

We're all like 20 years old, by the way. That's what I'm saying.

[Andy]

It's not as if they're Grand Slam champions like it, like, and then center getting higher ratings than soccer in Italy. Like, this is. This is crazy. How much fun is this for tennis?

[JW]

I was going to say, don't we take a step back? Don't we want this? Yes. Wouldn't there be something really weird if players were playing behind, like, pastures of empty seats and quiet crowds and sinner was doing what he's doing and not popular? In Italy, we love this. I mean, I think with the. We were talking about this on Tennis show, the only one comp I could really come up with was Anna Kournikova, where the reception and the popularity was wildly disproportionate to the achievements and the results. That was always kind of, like, icky and whatever. You could laugh at the frat row that said, marry me, but it was a little icky. I think this is just good fun. The Philippines starving for a champion, and here comes this polished young woman who's arrowing up the top, you know, arrowing up the rankings. Great. Love it. Same with Fonseca. I mean, I think, you know, he talked about it. It was funny because it was sort of this double speak. I mean, he sort of talked about the Brazilian crowds doing him no favors, and he sort of meant in, like, I tossed the ball up in the air, and I hear the crowd noise, too. And I'm also here. I'm distracted when they yell out during points. I think there's a much more macro point to be made of. I'm not sure it's great for his development to be this much of a rock star. And, you know, he was like. I don't know, he's like the 27th seed in Rome, and he's getting this rock star treatment. And I think, you know, he may need a little bit of a gap, a little more space between him and the crowd before he sort of fulfills everything that they have in store for him. But, no, I mean, I think on balance, it's great. And I think players sometimes, oh, the atmosphere was dead out there, or, oh, they put me on second to last, and there wasn't a crowd. Anyway, I get it. It's five all in the third set. You're trying to concentrate, and you don't need the samba playing. But I think, just big picture, what a great atmosphere, how great that tennis has these sort of traveling fan segments. When I think about Ayala, and I'm thinking, here is this country starved for sports success, and they have completely taken to her. Ride that train. And, yeah, maybe she's playing on bigger crowds than her rankings should govern. But I don't have a problem with that. And, yeah, I don't know. I think Sinner. We sometimes sleep a little bit on him. I was writing, you know, he's. He's not Carlos Electricity. Right. And he's not having Twitter beefs, and he's not seeing outrageous comments in press conferences.

[Andy]

He's not, like, 0%. Just so we're clear. That's not a negative. He is 0% thirsty for anything past just winning. He's not. He is zero percent thirsty. Some people go get clicks.

[JW]

He.

[Andy]

He doesn't give a shit about clicks. I don't think maybe that's the point.

[Sean]

I mean, he does. He just recently did a funny coffee commercial. Right. He's doing stuff with Bocelli. You know, he's getting mentioned by F1 drivers. Like, he is transcending just the simplicity of tennis, but he's doing it without being thirsty.

[JW]

Yeah, he's the Pope's favorite player.

[Andy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean]

But he's doing it just in, like, a swaggy, cool, like, chill way.

[Andy]

Comfortable.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Andy]

Yeah.

[JW]

I mean, one thing we always say a lot is, like, don't be who you're not. If you're not the outrageous guy, don't get in Nick Curio's Twitter beefs. I think the other part to this is I think some of this is just very calculated. It's not in the interest of my best tennis to be outrageous and go advertise my social life on social media. I think some of it is just. It is who he is. And if you talk to people in the town where he's from, or if you talk to some of his young coaches, even some of the ski instructors, this is very consistent with his personality. But I also think he's made a decision. Look, I'm trying to win tennis matches here. I'm not trying to get lakes and follows, and it's not in service of my best tennis to have Twitter beefs. But in Italy, he's playing in a fifth major right now, and I think sometimes we. You know, I think sometimes we didn't recognize that, like when Rafa played Barcelona Madrid. This is a big tournament for him. Remember, last year didn't go quite as he had wanted to in Rome. This is a huge event for him, and he's getting treated like the biggest sports star in the country, which is basically what he is.

[Andy]

Yeah, but the other thing that I think we need to. Because you say one thing where he's not like, Carlos walks in and like, is looking at everyone. I think sinner walks in, he's head down and goes about his business. And there's a difference. It doesn't mean that one is better than the other. But the other thing, I want to differentiate when we talk about Jannik, like, you see him in interviews, he's not giving you zero, like Lendl or, you know, like, strategically zero, like a Lendel or a Pete or any of the other players who just didn't want to speak. He's funny.

[Sean]

He's funny.

[Andy]

Like he gives a thing. You know, they're talking about, you know, the bumble. He's like, I don't need that. Like, he's the bumble dating app thing. Like, he gives you. It's, it's, it's not as if he's giving you nothing at all.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Andy]

Like, that's far from, that's far from what it is. It's just, he's, he's going, I am this guy. I don't need extra. Right. Like, I don't. He's not the same as what we've seen before. He's very warm. He's very professional. He, he doesn't give you one word answers. That's not him at all. So it's, it's different than maybe we would have described those players from the past in a similar way. It's not that at all. It's just he's not extra and thirsty. Like, he's very, it seems like he's very comfortable and it seems like, you know, the North Star is always just the tennis.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Andy]

And it, it, he's like, it seems like he's able to simplify, compartmentalize.

[Sean]

And I, I would, I would love, I would love to see him play, like in an early matchup, have to go up against a Fonseca with this, like, energy. It wouldn't cry.

[Andy]

But that's the thing. He could definitely.

[Sean]

I would just love to see that so much because, because I, as a, as a sports fan, you know, that came from outside of the tennis. I just, I just love the raucous nature that it's bringing. And, and we had asked, you know, a poll question last week coming out of Madrid. We had asked on, in the newsletter and on socials, you know, which breakout player from Madrid would continue the run in Rome. And we had said, you know, Rafa Hodar, Haley Baptiste, Alexander Blocks, annapada pova, and 51% said hodar.

[Andy]

Surprised it wasn't higher.

[Sean]

You know, and I think the question is, right, is like, these young Stars. Like, he also is, what, 20, 19, 20 years old. You know what. What are we seeing from these young stars, tennis wise?

[Andy]

If.

[Sean]

If maybe Fonseca and maybe y' all are on the move up. But then what are you seeing from guys? Like, to be.

[Andy]

To be fair, there's no space between Fonseca's ranking and Hodar's right now. Yeah, I think they're about the same.

[JW]

I think Hodar will be higher going into the.

[Andy]

That's what I'm saying. So it's not as if they're separated now. Like, he's made up a year and a half of ground in six months on. On, you know, another blue chip prospect. Phone Fonseca. I mean, that's just the way it is. And I'm watching him. I watched him this week. He's able to create, like, short balls where people are lunging. He has this massive forehand, but he takes this backhand. He takes a full cut. He splits the difference between the middle hash mark and the sideline, and people are lunging. He has such easy power. He is overpowering grownups right now, right? His serve is good. Like, it's not great for someone his size. It goes pretty straight. It's a standard kick. Second the. The depth that he gets on his average shot. I mean, he hits a forehand with shape, and it's hard, and it's eating up the baseline. He just takes full cuts on his backhand to where you have to defend this thing, knowing you have to defend it away from this shot that's upcoming with his forehand. And, you know, you're seeing people lunge. Arnoldi, I watch, like, he would take these cuts middle of the road backhand, but with pace. And Arnoldi is hitting, like, lunging and hitting a chip forehand, right? Like, it's just. He's got some power, like, big power. And just because he's not, like, grunting and it doesn't look hard, dude, he is creating some massive pace out there. Not just like, he goes flat on the back end. And his forehand ball flight is. Is heavy. I mean, I don't know how you get away from that.

[JW]

6, 3, 154 pounds.

[Sean]

That's what it's listening at.

[Andy]

I take the over on a 154, by the way.

[Sean]

Apparently, he hasn't been on scale since he was 17.

[Andy]

Yeah, that's all. That's a. That's a. That's a. That's a tough one. But I. It. Listen, those long levers and being able to control it and there's room for upside, but he's able to blow people back with his second most powerful shot. And you kind of have to get out of jail from there. He's eating up the middle of the court with his backhand and then taking control and can hit an aggressive four in each way. Like, there's very few that are going to be able to deal with that. Like, he's. I mean, I got another crazy one for you, jw. This is nuts. What I'm about to say.

[JW]

Rafa Nadal is my answer. What do you got?

[Andy]

You got the Rafa part right. Okay. Is he on this? Is he on the second? The next. The next contenders at Roland Garros. Like, we just went through. Oh, I mean, who's playing better than him right now?

[JW]

Yeah, I know. This is a crazy story.

[Andy]

Seriously, think about it. Like, who would you. If you. If I gave you a list of 10 people and you take Zverev out for consistency, just knowing that he'll probably get through three out of five, but, like, I don't know, if you give me seven players past. Past center right now to make the quarters or semis, I think he's on that list. Is. Is he the. Is he a favorite against, you know, any seed? You know, a lot of the seeds in the top eight right now? Yep.

[JW]

I do totally remember what I was talking about with the women. How you. You go down the list and you're like, oh, Coco's a defending champ. Iga, Roland Garros, you know, we were talking about her in the same breath as Chris Everett. If you, like, just go, Andreeva, she can play on clay. Jess Pagulis, go down the list. It's not that way with the man. Like, I don't know, is Felix getting out of week one? He won a title in Germany, but Ben Shelton hasn't looked great in these last two Mets. Saying, like, has lost love and love. Like, there's some holes in those. You know, Medvedev's lost on the surface.

[Andy]

Double B. I don't know.

[JW]

The short answer to your question is yes. And I tell you what else I read into. So Hodar, he's 19, he's born in Madrid, right? He goes, he plays his tournament. It has this great event. Beats Fonseca, night sessions, smokes. Diminor, plays tough against Jannik. Great story. The fact that he would come back at the very next tournament. And as we timestamp this, he's about to play Lerner Tien, which is another interesting match. Actually beat him at that Next gen a few months ago. But the fact that he's backed it up and is still winning matches, I read a lot into that. Yeah.

[Andy]

I mean, you.

[JW]

I don't know. Can you name eight players you would put a Hodar right now? I can't.

[Andy]

No, I can't. No. And that's not. It's just. It's. It's. It's what I'm seeing with pace of shot. He can go out and beat someone like Demon and like, overwhelm him. Like, there's not that many people that can do it. He looks dialed. I like his temperament. He doesn't take points off Weird, you know, being as his name is Rafa. But like, pace of shot he's able to beat. He's able to overpower people without taking crazy risks. Like, he's hitting the big parts of the court and, you know, it's just swallowing people. No is the answer. I do not take eight other people as favorites to get to the last four over Hodar right now. I don't. And I know that's nuts. And I'm normally not a victim of the moment. I'm just telling you, from what I'm watching on television, even Arnoldi, like, he didn't. He played great the first set. Arnold, he played. Let it get away from him and then dialed it back in. I don't know. No is my answer.

[Sean]

I mean, he could find himself in the semis pretty quickly here in Rome. I mean, he has tn. And then if. If he wins that match, he's taking on Zverev or Dardarian.

[Andy]

I want to see Hodar and Zverev. I want to see that matchup. I want to see how he returns a serve that big. I want to see how he deals backhand, backhand to backhand, correct backhand to backhand. And if he can create that pace off of. The only person that can handle zver of his backhand in the depth and like, the ball flight is. Is. Is Yannick. I want to see that. We're going to go to break. I. But I'm, I'm. I'm long on hodar right now for this specific tournament grass. Everything resets. We don't know what's going on. I'm not putting him in the top five tomorrow. He's trending that way. But I don't. I don't know. I don't like six or eight people more than him at Roland Garros right now just based on former injuries or some version of. Of that. Where are we talking after the break. Boycotts.

[Sean]

Yeah. Well, we just some fan reactions to the boycott conversation. I wanted to get your guys POV on.

[Andy]

Okay. We will be back after the break with boycott news. Yay. All right, welcome back to Serve. Brought to you by Service. Now. What do we got?

[Sean]

Well, obviously there was news breaking all last week about, you know, the, the players project Red Eye and the threats of boycotts and, and what that would look like. And I think a lot of the fan reactions to that and a lot of the questions back to us could have been summed up in something like, but what really is the value that's missing? Right? Like if right now they're at 15% and they want to get to 22%, you know, what is in that 7%? Like, where is that money coming from? And ultimately, I think it's a broad question. You're right. Like what, what is the 7% that Roland Garros can't give them? Why can't the US Open that gives them 74 million. You're assuming that give them 93. Well, that's the question from them.

[Andy]

Okay. You're, you're assuming can't as opposed to aren't, aren't.

[Sean]

Like, and I think like, and we looked at it like the U.S. open did 70 some million last year. They did earn 20, 24, I think was the prize money. They did 420 million in revenue. If they were to do 22%, that's 93 million. Right. Like what, how can you not make up that gap where what is being spent, what is that being spent on? That it can't be spent on the players which are the center of all of this.

[Andy]

Yeah, I mean, that's the ultimate question.

[JW]

That's, that's one way to frame it.

[Andy]

There's a renovation going on, so hopefully

[Sean]

I just throw out the US Open as anybody, just all the slams in general.

[Andy]

Here's, here's a couple. All right, so there's a lot of talk about boycott. Let's just think this through because I've think I've thought this through for 20 years. I had, you know, I've talked about on the show before I had the, you know, most marketable 20 men. And I say marketable meaning like Safin was ranked 70 at the time, but obviously he's one of the 20 most important in the game. You know, Paradox was the biggest player in Asia, so his voice was, was in the room. So it's not, it wasn't necessarily like the best 20 on rankings. And you know, it's Basically, like, we hold the cards. So I know this like, kind of for sure, it would be idiotic to boycott the French Open and then short side yourself for negotiations and lock yourself into a three week negotiation before Wimbledon comes up. Because if you boycott the French Open and then Wimbledon comes up and you don't have a deal yet, you're also, it's going to be like after the US Open, you have four, three, four months and Australia is on in the middle of the night in most places of earth. It ain't gonna be the French Open. That would be like absurdly dumb.

[Sean]

Well, I don't think they were saying that they would do it today. I think they're just saying, I mean

[Andy]

all they're saying, all the boycott. Should you boycott the French? No, it's not gonna happen. You're not gonna boycott Wimbledon because then you have six weeks until the US Open. Like, you're not, you need space to negotiate after an extreme action, right? So like, I don't see that. And a lot of other people are like, well, they're just going to take this and they're just supposed to pay them out. I go, what? You know, what, what, what if the revenue goes down? I'm like, okay, what's a percentage basis? Yeah, then they're, the revenue goes down also. They're not demanding $400 million in a flat fee. They're. It's a percentage of revenue that that is being demanded. Right? So it's, you know, I don't know.

[Sean]

Like, I mean, that's how the NFL salary cap is calculated, right?

[Andy]

They look at revenue on the previous

[Sean]

year and then they calculate can give them the next year. Like, I think that should be really what it is on a, on a rolling basis. But I, some of the questions we had in the, in the, you know, our morning meeting, we're like it. And maybe this will be our new, our new poll question this week is should we see the tours? You know, kind of live up and officially step up and be like, you know what Slams. We are on the player side on this. That is our roles. And you guys need to get to 22%.

[Andy]

We've done it.

[JW]

I've been, I mean, I don't know. I mean, how much of this is just labor economics? And you know, you're not going to, you could pay your babysitter $100 an hour and what would that come out of? But if she'll work for 20 bucks, that's what you pay her or him. I think one dirty secret in all this I mean, first of all, let's be clear. The majors still pay way more than the other event. So it's sort of like, hey, tour is good for you, but if you really care so much about the players, why don't you jack up the prize money at your events? The other dirty secret, I think what I hear from agents a lot is so many of these endorsement contracts have bonuses for winning and playing majors and penalties critically for missing majors. There's a lot more at stake here than just a couple hundred thousand dollars extra for X number of top players. But, no, I mean, this is the same discussion tennis has been having forever. Yes. If you look at this like other sports. If you look at this from a fairness perspective, the players ought to be making more of the gross revenue. And until they show that they're willing not to play, the big tournaments don't really have a lot of incentive to give. I don't know. You tell me, Andy. It's more complicated than that.

[Andy]

Well, you mentioned the tour stepping up, so there's a couple of things. We represent the players. All right, great. Then shorten the season. Deal with your number one complaint first. That would give you a lot more credibility in the room with the players. Right. We've been asking for this for. I don't know, how long do we have to boycott World Tour Finals to get what we want? Like, there's. There's the. I think you have to fix your backyard before. And, and so, like, if I'm going to be critical, I have to point out the tours are paying out to. And John kind of was dancing around it. The tours pay out a much bigger percentage with much lower revenues. Right. So just. They are overextending way more than the Slams. Right. And what can the tours actually do? Withhold points from Grand Slams.

[Sean]

That. That's kind of something we were talking about, right? I mean, like, what. What if they were to take the 2,000 points and assign it to Rome because Rome decided to do 25, and

[Andy]

Janik would still be ranked number one and Carlos would still be ranked number two.

[Sean]

That's what I'm saying. But then. But then the French Open would be worth it.

[Andy]

You're going to. You're the tours. You're going to blow up your relationship. Like, that's like Tito demanding a solo in the Jackson 5. Like, you're going to blow up your relationships with, you know, the last time they withheld points. And like, it's. I think the tours are doing a good job and also forever the tours like the representation Was on their council was 3. 3. And then tie breaking vote basically went to the Tours.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Andy]

So I don't know that they have this thing where like we're the, we're, we're going to be, you know, the players, you know, good angel on this one. Like, like fix your schedule maybe.

[Sean]

That's the problem.

[Andy]

You know, and they're trying to buy, apparently they're trying to buy back tours and remedy that. But listen, they are doing stuff with pensions. They are doing stuff with healthcare. They are paying, they, the Tours. Yes, they are paying more with less. Right. So they're kind of putting up right now. Could they be more vocal publicly? Sure. Do they actually have something they can do to. Here's what you're basically saying. We're going to ignore outreach from the biggest stars in the world, but then some suit from the Tour is going to go, you guys should do this. And they're going to go, okay, no, I'm not.

[Sean]

I'm saying you're going to threaten ranking points. I said it'd be, it'd be in conjunction.

[Andy]

Then you're, then your tour is a farce. It's like, okay, you have this ranking system, but you haven't included the major winners. It's fucked up. No, everyone's going to go, yeah, your ranking sucks. Like, this isn't a real representative. Novak's. Okay, take this. Here we go. You know where I'm going with this, right?

[JW]

What's Novak's ranking?

[Andy]

Novak's ranking in this scenario would probably not be top 100. Maybe it's 80 we're happy with. That's the solution. That's realistic.

[JW]

No, Wouldn't it? In fantasy land over here, market forces are powerful forces. Wouldn't it be nice if the majors just gave a little here and said, listen, guys, we're still paying way more than any other event on Tour. Listen, guys, you've got all these endorsement bonuses. You're not going to skip. Let's just. We're going to give you 2% and maybe after that we can reassess. We're not going to hit your number. We're not going to stand like, let's just come in from the margins and avoid a PR disaster. We don't want bad relations in good faith. We're going to give you 2% more of gross revenue and we avoid. I mean, these events are never going to get boycotted. I mean, maybe a few of the top players are. You know what? There's a guy ranked 38 who would love a chance to Call himself a Wimbledon champion. I think, like, you got to understand what your leverage is here. It would just be nice if the majors said, you know what, as a show of good faith, we probably don't have to do this, but because it's the right thing to do, we're going to come in a little bit.

[Andy]

Okay, so we say that as if that's total Peter Pan. Like, we say that. And they just dropped it. Yeah, they just dropped it on a percentage basis like a week ago. Like, sure, I agree. A show of good faith would be actually responding to the letters that the top players have written. Like, let's start there. Let's start with actually acknowledging that, you know, a base level of respect for like, hey, we have an issue. Would you like to talk about it? Sure, I would.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[JW]

I'll tell you what else. You know what else is not good faith? That all four of the majors do this to various degrees. Let's be clear. These players want more money. They don't give a shit about capital improvements. And we're having fresh sushi in the players lounge, and we're resurfacing court like they want more prize money. So trying to pass this off and, you know, the US Open, I think is probably guilty, number one of this, saying, we have new exercise balls and we're putting all this money into capital improvements. That's not what the players. That's literally like saying, I can't give you a raise this year, but good news, we're going to get new toner for the printers and all the offices. So give the players a little more money, come to the table in good faith, and maybe this goes away. But I'm looking here. So a first round loser in Rome makes 21,000, you know, about $25,000. I mean, that's 25% of what a first round loser at some of the majors makes. So the idea that the players are going to bypass the four most lucrative tournaments who are paying, in some cases, 4x.

[Andy]

I think you'd only have to do it once.

[JW]

What, a Masters won?

[Andy]

Yeah, the what said. I think you don't. You guys are talking about this and like the bosses and give me a raise. And all I can think of is Randy Quaid from National Lampoons walking in, bringing Clark Griswold's boss into the. Into the living room when he didn't get his Christmas bonus.

[JW]

That is a deep poll, my friend.

[Andy]

All right, Mike, we got anything else?

[Sean]

That's it. That's it.

[Andy]

Hey, listen, I'm happy you all listen this far.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Andy]

Rome recap next week. What do we got going on before before the French Open draw show all the stuff.

[Sean]

Yeah, all the good stuff. Sign up for the Sign up for the bracket challenge, which you know, you can go to servepodcast.com and find wide

[Andy]

open by the way up at the top. Like we obviously everyone's going to pick sooner but like up until then can be good. Wide open, it's going to be good. Who do you take? Hodar and Djokovic, third round. Jw, just think about that and let's wish it into reality.

[JW]

Serrana Kirsteo.

[Andy]

Let's do it. All right. It'll be busy next week in the lead up to Roland Garros. We cannot wait. And obviously during Roland Garros we will have quick service for you every day. So let's start ramping this thing up. We should stretch before we sprint. Thanks for watching Served. Brought to you by ServiceNow we will see you soon. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built on. With the ServiceNow AI platform, your AI data and workflows all work together, connecting every corner of your business. To see how you can put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com AI agents. Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings, there's a money side to every story.

[JW]

Get the money side of the story.

[Andy]

Subscribe [e-mail].