Ajla Tomljanovic on Beating Serena Willaims, Chris Evert Friendship & More

Summary

Served with Andy Roddick: Ajla Tomljanovic on Beating Serena Williams, Chris Evert Friendship & More

Release Date: February 11, 2026
Podcast: Served with Andy Roddick

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, the hosts welcome Ajla Tomljanovic, a beloved and candid player on the WTA tour, for an in-depth conversation about her career, mentorship from Chris Evert, her memorable win over Serena Williams, and personal growth on and off the court. With a mix of humor, insight, and openness, Ajla discusses challenges of injuries, navigating nationality, family relationships in tennis, and life after professional sport.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Tournament Talk & Headlines

• The hosts chat about the evolution of the Dallas tennis tournament and anecdotes about John McEnroe, doubles with Andy Roddick, and crowd engagement.

  • “Every time McEnroe steps on a tennis court, I’m reminded how good he still is.” – Blair (02:41)

• Quick news hits include climber Sarah Baylick’s win in Abu Dhabi (“5 foot 2, another young Czech player to keep an eye on”), Katie Boulter’s breakthrough, and Sorana Cirstea’s home-country win at age 35 (05:33).

• Discussion of tennis’ generational depth and how federations like the Czech Republic continue to produce a stream of top players (07:30).

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Ajla Tomljanovic Joins the Podcast

First Impressions & Recent Update

• Ajla joins freshly back from the Australian swing, candid about pulling out of Abu Dhabi after feeling unwell and the value of listening to her gut about her schedule (11:16).

  • “Sometimes listening to your own thoughts and feelings is more powerful than anything.” – Host (11:45)

• Injury management: Details her recent pec injury before the Australian Open and how she relied on trust in Tennis Australia’s fitness/physio team.

  • “If I’m stepping on the court, I’m going to go full out… even if it gets a bit worse, it’s worth it for me.” – Ajla (14:23)

On Nationality, Family, and Identity

• Navigating Croatian-Australian nationality and feeling at home under the Aussie flag.

  • “As soon as I had AUS behind my name, I really felt connected. They’ve embraced me from the get go.” – Ajla (15:17)
  • Fun asides on how her accent shifts but she chooses to “embrace whatever accent I have now” (18:23).

• Family dynamics: Ajla reflects warmly on her supportive dad (her “biggest believer and cheerleader”) and how the parent-coach relationship was balanced by having a professional coach as a buffer.

  • "He’s proud… it’s really nice to see. I’ve also seen the other side of a parent coach, so it’s really refreshing.” – Host (21:31)

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Influential Relationships

With Chris Evert

• Ajla shares the evolution of her mentorship with Chris Evert from a “second mom” when she was 12, to confidante and friend.
  • “She’s a savage... She’s dry, sarcastic, very. She’ll tell you straight, which I love.” – Ajla (24:27, 24:32)

Wimbledon Breakthrough and Grass Court Epiphany

• Initially hating grass, Ajla describes how a mental click led to her quarterfinal run at Wimbledon in 2021, referencing significant matches under Covid conditions.
  • “Once you have that belief, you’re such a different player.” – Ajla (26:32)

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Candid Career Reflections & Mindset

On Belief, Confidence, and Enjoyment

• Ajla opens up about the waves of self-belief, how her father and coach renewed her drive, and a new focus on enjoying the moment rather than fearing regrets.

  • “I just want to really enjoy it, because I hate some of the years I’ve sort of wasted not enjoying it… every other week there’s a new opportunity.” – Ajla (28:03)

• Honest about contemplating retirement after injuries, even dabbling with commentary, but finding motivation restored by her coach, Goran Perpich.

  • “I started to just do a bit more media work and almost, like, think about, what do I like outside of tennis? And it took a bit of pressure off.” – Ajla (29:38)

On Transitioning to Media

• Ajla admits that commentary feels awkward when she isn’t playing, but finds the perspective valuable and fun, even if she feels she’s still learning (“I secretly hate it” – 31:23).

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Tennis, Media, and Memorable Matches

Beating Serena Williams at the 2022 US Open

• Ajla reflects on the surreal nature of being the last player (for now!) to beat Serena and what it might mean if Serena returns to the tour.
  • “My time in the history books lasted four years. I’ll take it!” – Ajla (32:50)
  • “It did bring out this bitchiness in me, even if it couldn’t show. But it was like, ‘I’m here too,’ and I just played probably the most measured match mentally in my career.” – Ajla (33:39)

DM Culture & Public Relationships

• Funny discussion about social media DMs and the scrutiny of tennis relationships, especially in public and post-breakup ("That ship has sailed" – Host, 36:23).
  • “If I had a daughter, I’d probably be like, maybe date outside your sport. Because most likely, it won’t work out. The odds are stacked against you.” – Ajla (37:37)
  • On family dealing with her public breakups: "Even right after the breakup, they're throwing jokes, and it's fine. Like, it’s part of life." (38:34)

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Tour Life, Alone Time, and Female Friendship

• Nuggets on enjoying alone time post-relationship and how priorities shift (“When I finish a match, I love just going back to my hotel… It’s all about me!” – Ajla, 40:00)

• Relatable moments between Ajla, Kim Clijsters, and Blair about balancing tennis life, relationships, family, and self-care.

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Tactical Insights from a Player-Commentator

Thoughts on Current Players:

Ajla gives unique quick-hit insights into the strengths of current WTA stars:

• Aryna Sabalenka:
  “Even if she misses two balls, she keeps going the same way. It’s the champions mentality… The belief never wavers.” (41:53)

• Coco Gauff:
  “She’s someone that you really gotta beat… If she’s not having the best day, she’s so athletic that you have to earn it.” (45:12)

• Liudmila Samsonova:
  “One of the biggest hitters on tour… If you just hang in with her, she can have matches where she just goes on a roll and it’s sometimes too good. But with her, it does sometimes feel like if you weather the storm and put in a little bit of variety, it’s what can hurt her.” (46:32)

On Changing Depth in Women’s Tennis

• Discussion on whether the depth is stronger now or the top is weaker, and how technology, fitness, and approach have changed the game.

  • “Kids that were watching, that generation, know there’s only one way to win and be consistent: aggressive tennis… Everybody’s fit now, right?” – Host (50:02)

• Ajla asks about whether a player like Radwanska could succeed today:

  • “She loved hitting against the hard hitters… Now, not a lot of players like hitting against the hard players because it takes away their strength.” – Host (52:18)

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Progress in Women's Tennis & Prize Money

• Hosts break the news to Ajla that Charleston will offer record prize money for a WTA 500 event.

  • “I’d wish I was 20 right now, that I can keep playing for another 10 years.” – Ajla (57:37)

• Ajla’s perspective: “I think we must be leading in women’s sports, just with, you know, sort of equality compared to the men… It gets the conversation going, and that’s where change happens.” (56:17)

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Heartfelt Closing & Notable Moments

• Ajla’s touching note to Kim Clijsters:

  • “I never had a favorite player growing up, but Kim was always someone that I watched, and when she played all those finals with Justine Henin, it was just surreal to me once I came on tour… Meeting Kim, she exceeded expectations.” (59:14)

• The episode ends with camaraderie, laughter about TikTok reluctance, and teasers for next week.

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Most Memorable Quotes

• Ajla on Mindset:
  “I just want to really enjoy it, because I hate some of the years I’ve sort of wasted not enjoying it… every other week there’s a new opportunity.” (28:03)

• Ajla on Beating Serena Williams:
  “My time in the history books lasted four years. I’ll take it.” (32:50)
  “I just played probably the most measured match mentally in my career.” (33:39)

• On Sabalenka:
  “It was just… even if she misses two balls, she keeps going the same way after it… it’s the champion’s mentality, the belief never wavers.” (41:53)

• On the Changing Game:
  “I do feel like the level has definitely gotten stronger.” – Kim Clijsters (51:47)

• Ajla on Chris Evert:
  “She’s a savage… She’ll tell you straight, which I love.” (24:27)

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Notable Timestamps

• 11:16 – Ajla joins, details on her schedule and injuries
• 15:17 – Playing under the Australian flag
• 19:17 – Her relationship with her dad and coaching dynamic
• 23:07 – Friendship and mentorship with Chris Evert
• 25:28 – Wimbledon breakthrough and changing relationship with grass
• 32:50 – Reflection on beating Serena Williams at the 2022 US Open
• 37:37 – Navigating public relationships and breakups in the tennis world
• 41:46 – Ajla’s rapid-fire insights on Sabalenka, Gauff, Samsonova
• 56:17 – On prize money growth and opportunities in women’s tennis
• 59:14 – Heartfelt tribute to Kim Clijsters

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Episode Tone & Style

Conversational, honest, and filled with warmth, this episode blends candid admissions about the pressures and joys of pro tennis with technical insight and plenty of humor. Ajla Tomljanovic is open about her doubts, dreams, and the difficult transitions that define a top athlete's career, while the hosts keep the energy lively and relatable for fans and listeners alike.

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Perfect for listeners seeking:

• Behind-the-scenes tennis stories,
• Tactical insights from active pros,
• Reflections on women’s tennis progress,
• The human stories that shape competitors and champions.

Transcript

[A]

Here we go. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Love Wall. Really, really exciting episode. We get to talk to Ayla Tomjanovic today and see what she's up to. But first, Blair, let me tell me a little bit about where you're at. You're in Dallas at home, but you're also working. So what are you up to?

[B]

That's right. I live in Fort Worth. This week, I am working in Dallas, which everybody's like, it's a home tournament. I'm like, it is. Which is amazing. I get to take my kids to school in the morning, but it' just far enough away that it makes the commute a huge pain in the butt. But this is one of my.

[A]

How long is it from home?

[B]

Like 52 minutes. We'll go with. But it's such a gift to be able to see my girls.

[A]

Sleep in your own bed, too.

[B]

Sleep in my own bed. And this is one of my favorite weeks of the year. It is so much fun. The event has, in five years gone from a 250 at SMU, which was wonderful, but now we are at the Dallas Cowboys practice facility. You have these unbelievable practice courts. There's great fan access to the players, and the draw has really grown as well in terms of degree of difficulty. I mean, top seeds, Fritz Shelton, Alejandro Davidovich, Faquina Kaboli, Tommy Paul Lerner tn, Denis Shapovalov, who won last year, and Francis Tiafo. So really great you had. Yesterday we had an unbelievable doubles match. Ben Shelton and Alex Kovacevic, which, quick side note, Ben crowdsourced his devil's partner here. I don't know if you saw that on his Instagram stories. He's like, who wants to play Devils? You know, hit me up. I asked Ben, like, how many applicants did you get? It was in the hundreds. He said, next time I probably should put like a rankings limit. I was like, yes, Ben. I almost applied. I almost applied to be Ben Shelton's doubles partner here, but he and Alex beat Grigor Dimitrov and an SMU student, Georgi Georgiev, another Bulgarian. They grew up in the same hometown. Grigor's father trained Georgiev, and Grigor is is besties with the SMU head coach, Grant Chen. And so that's how they all ended up together. So there's great doubles as well. I can't say enough good things about what the tournament has become. And then prior to the actual main draw, we had biggest doubles match. The biggest doubles match maybe of 2026. It was the All American Classic. So we had John isner and John McEnroe FAC against Sam Query and Andy Roddick. It was the best time. I am reminded Every time John McEnroe steps on a tennis court of how.

[A]

Good he still is.

[B]

How good he still is.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

Because I saw Sam Query in Australia in full tennis gear. I was like, what you doing? He's like, I'm going to hit. And I said, with whom? He said, with Johnny Mack. And I said, is he in training for Dallas? And he said, yes, that's exactly what what he's doing. So, so yes, he is in, still in great shape. He is still so good with his hands. I mean, what I would do for the volleys, it was incredible. But also the star power. He, I talked to multiple people and of course Andy as well. But I mean people like come out to see John McEnroe, even younger people still know who he is. He is just managed to stay relevant over multiple generations, which is really incredible. And the tennis was great as well. Andy, you know, drop dropped some, some podcast. What do we want to call it? I don't trash talk is too strong of a word. But we did get there in the end.

[A]

I'm like, are we going to go there like little.

[B]

Are we going to get into, you know, podcast wars here? And we did in the post match.

[A]

Interview who was really, who won the podcast war?

[B]

I, I, you know what, I think Sam and John were like, you know what, Andy, we're gonna let you take this one. But he did say that, nothing major. He said, it's so cute. We could fit it, could fit it in my pocket. And then there was banter after that. It was, we just had the best time. And to know that people are potentially coming out who've never seen tennis before, it's just really fun. I know that sounds so cheesy, but I'm like, ah, if somebody comes here for the first time and realizes that watching professional tennis is not, you know, golf clapping at a country club that can potentially make fans for life. So excited to be in Dallas. I have a few quick headlines because Kim has a doctor's appointment she cannot miss today. So I'm going to run through the headlines. Kim, you can pick out anything that sticks out to you. Qualifier Sarah Baylick at Abu Dhabi. She came through, won the tournament, still stands 5 foot 2, another young check player to keep an eye on. I mean, unbelievable. I'm going to keep going and then you can have your thoughts on that. In Ostrava, Katie Bolter defeated Tammy Korpotch in three sets. A big win for Bolter, who was outside the top 100. She's now back in. In Cluj. 35 year old Serana Kirstea, in her farewell year, gets a title in, in Romania in her own country. Like, what a incredible moment for her. Vers von A Rava, 41 years old, qualified and won her first round match against Stearns in Doha. She won that tournament 15 years ago. I mean, like, my head is exploding.

[A]

Right, but now has to do it in singles, right?

[B]

Has also been playing doubles with Lara Siegeman. Shout out Peyton Stearns, who I absolutely love, who also she. She's been sort of the comeback victim. She, she lost to Venus Williams in D.C. this summer and then has to face Vera's Von Raeva again, who is, you know, recovering from surgery in 2024 and said as long as she's having fun, she's going to, she's going to keep playing. So lots happening. Anything stick out to you, Kim?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, to me in Abu Dhabi, just kind of seeing the draw, the semifinal draw there was. Was fun seeing some of the youngsters, right. Clara Thousand in the semifinal. The American Haley Baptiste made it to the semis. And then Sandra Belyk. Right. Is that how we say it?

[B]

Balik is how I say, Unclear. We don't have.

[C]

No.

[B]

This comes as a shock to you, Kim. We do not yet have a pronunciation guide on the WTA website.

[A]

5 foot 2, which is 157 centimeters a meter. 57, incredible. And I started thinking about, like, you know, some of the shorter players that I played and, you know, Justine was shorter, but she wasn't, you know, she wasn't that short. And then, yet Sibokova. And then I thought back about like my first Wimbledon that I qualified on the women's tour, and I got to play Amanda Kutzer in the third round and I looked up her height and I saw that she was 5 foot 2. So I was like, oh, no way. Like. So. Yeah, it just shows, right, that in a world of tennis where, you know, players are getting taller and stronger and the serve is becoming, you know, a huge weapon that you have players like her who can win big tournaments and can be really good players as well. And what really, like stuck it out for me was, you know, obviously her, her movement is incredible. The way that she's able to kind of retrieve shots and always bring that one or two, two balls back and make her opponents doubt and make, make them make the mistake. But it's also from 1 meter, 2 meters behind the baseline, the amount, the angles that she's able to create. Like, she has a touch for, you know, for the. Like the. That she has a feel for the court size, that she uses all the different angles and. And she can hit the lob, she can hit the slices, the forehand slice she used. Dr. Really nice to see that variety. So enjoyed watching her play. And. Yeah, so that is a kind of a new. Another name in the. That comes from the Czech tennis world, Right. Like, it's amazing, like, to me, every week. Yeah, I feel like nobody talks enough, like, a lot. You know, I mean, the federations that own a Grand Slam get spoken about a lot, but when you talk about, like, the tennis impact that a federation has had, and if you look at, like, the Czech Women's Tennis Federation has been just producing players after player, and, you know, as we speak, there's the under 14s happening in France, and you see the new upcoming Czech players there, and it's just. Yeah, they just keep coming and it's like in a factory, right. Like when they just keep creating and building them and so very, very impressive. Yeah. To see her result. And, you know, we'll draw a lot of attention now with that win from, you know, from the outside world, and people will keep having their eye on her for sure.

[B]

One of many to keep an eye on.

[A]

Kirstea. Exciting to me, that was a really exciting win to see. You know, Emma Raducanu, I think we mentioned it, right. Like, she made a final after, you know, her and her coach split up. Right. So, but Christea, to be able to play some really good tennis, like she was playing well in Australia, she was playing and played well in her home tournament, has to be a really good feeling. So I'm curious to see if this will create a little bit of a momentum switch for her, knowing that this is. When you make up in your mind that this is your last year, a lot of players can maybe play with a little bit less stress, enjoy the life on tour a little bit more as well, and that can kind of help them under pressure and deal with those emotions. So curious to see if, you know, if she keeps up this level throughout the year, if she will actually hang up her rackets or if she's like, you know, I'm on a roll here, let's keep that going. But she's really excited. She's a great girl and exciting to see her playing well.

[B]

I cannot wait to see. And as you mentioned, Kim, we have a very special guest joining us today. When we come back from the break, she's 32 years old. She's been ranked as high as 32 in the world. She's made major quarterfinals, she's reached five WTA Finals, and she's one of the kindest, most lovely tennis players on tour. I know we're both lucky enough to know her personally. Ayla Tomjanovic will be with us after the break.

[D]

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[A]

So I'm really, really excited today to have Ayla Tomljanovic on the podcast, on the Lovell Podcast. Ayla, what have you been up to since the Australian Open? I know you're back in Boca. Like, how long have you been home? When did you leave Melbourne?

[C]

Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. I'm very excited. I'm a fan of the pod, so, very honored to be a guest. But I was in Abu Dhabi after Melbourne and I didn't really feel well, got a bit sick and decided to pull the plug on the. On that swing just because, you know, I've never done well there. And I just thought, 20, 26, I'm going to change that. And I didn't. So I was like, you know what? My gut was right. I'm going to go back home, train, and get ready for Austin in the US Swing, right?

[A]

And. And it's important, right, that lesson of, like, listening to your gut and kind of going against what some people around you are saying and just sticking through to your own thoughts and feelings is sometimes more powerful than anything. How? Because you didn't play that many tournaments leading up to the Australian Open, you just played some doubles, right?

[C]

No, no, no, I played. I played Brisbane and Adelaide, which, like, it's been a while since I've done, like, both of those. And I was actually really happy going in. But then I. I sort of injured my pec in the second round of Adelaide, which was a bit scary because initially I felt like it was really bad. And then once I got to Melbourne, it wasn't as bad as I thought. Like, there was no tear, it was just a strain. And, you know, with the pec, I've had those issues before, and it's just really scary. You're just. You don't trust it. And it's like one of those. If I can choose anywhere not to be injured, it would be in Australia. So it was a bit stressful, but I was really happy how I sort of handled it just going into the first round and played two good matches. Yeah.

[A]

So explain a little bit how, how that, like, the timing of that, right when you. The week before, or, you know, the timing of having a little issue that can, you know, potentially become worse if you, you know, really push through it. And, and what did that look like for you? Like, days that you had off before you started your first round match? Like, what does that look like? You know, did you go to Melbourne right away? Did you, you know, do you travel with your own trainer? Do you guys focus on that yourself? Then do you work with the WTA staff? Like, how. How did you approach that?

[C]

Yeah, I pretty much went straight after. I played on a Tuesday night, and then Wednesday morning I was like, I gotta get to Melbourne quickly because I work with the SNC from Tennis Australia and the physios and they've, I mean, helped me so much. So they kind of created a program. They were like, they me specific instructions what to do on court, the load. And we actually just started serving Saturday and I played on Monday. And we built up, like, from the gym with rehab, with strength, and, you know, it was the least amount of work on the table. It was more about just getting that muscle stronger without kind of aggravating it. And it's really just about trusting them because I'm every day like, oh, today, can we do more? Can we do more? Because you want to get as ready as possible, but you don't want to push it. So it's that fine line of really just staying calm and hoping for, like, the latest possible.

[A]

And then once you start, did you. Was it still in your head a little bit like, oh, I need to be a little bit cautious, or are you then like, all in and ready to go? Like, do you feel confident or are.

[C]

You just cautious in the practices? But I had the mentality, if I'm stepping on the court, I'm going to go full out. Meaning even if it gets a bit worse, it's worth it for me at this stage in my career, you know, the Slams, especially at home, are what I really play for. And I definitely took a few ibuprofens just for the, you know, the courage. But I think we Just did a really good job leading in and actually didn't make it worse at all.

[A]

Good, good to hear.

[B]

Yeah, I want to follow up on that. You provided us with the perfect segue because playing at the Australian Open as an Australian must be the coolest experience. But what some people may not know about you is you were born in Croatia, you shifted over to Australian nationality. It was about 2018. What is it like to play in Australia under the Australian flag? Is that fun?

[C]

Yeah, I know, it's. It's. People still get a bit confused, but you know what? For me, as soon as I had Aus behind my name, I really felt connected. They've embraced me from the get go. And I think also having played a lot of a Billie Jean King cup ties being now part of two Olympics, for me, it just feels very normal and I couldn't see it any other way. And I know to some it still maybe looks silly, but to me it feels so natural and I absolutely love it. I mean, there's always that. There's a bit of added pressure, but it's good. Like, I don't feel, you know, we've had ash, we've had players that are, in a way, much better than me going into the ao, and I never felt like I had to carry something on my shoulders. I always felt like I just wanted to do well for myself and for everyone cheering for me. So for me, it's a really good balance of just enjoying to play there. Because when they get behind you, I mean, I think even players that aren't Australian, when they get the crowd behind them, they say it's one of the best to play in front of.

[A]

I was about to say, like, I felt like when I played back in the day, like, you know, my nickname was like, Ozzy Kim, right? And I was like, I really don't deserve this, but I'll take it. Thank you for all the support. And I feel like the Australian crowd is a really good crowd. Like, they love their sports and so if you embrace them, they'll embrace you right back. And I think that mutual respect is what they. What they really have.

[C]

So. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

[A]

Citizenships.

[C]

So I got like my sort of like, let's say residency when I was about 23 and in the Slams I could play under the Aussie flag, but then in WTA I couldn't. So that was a bit confusing for people. So I think once I, like, turned 25 is when I was cleared to play the Legion King cup and I got my passport. So then I could represent Australia in all the, you know, tournaments. So pretty much, what, like seven, eight years ago?

[A]

And is that for you and the whole family or like, you know, just me, really?

[C]

The only lucky one.

[A]

I was like, okay, because, you know.

[B]

Ayla, that's sort of been in the headlines. We've seen Daria Kazatkina shift to Australia, Anastasia Potipova shifting to Austrian nationality citizenship.

[C]

What?

[B]

How does that process work?

[C]

Yeah, you know, it's a bit different. Like, I feel like Dasha had it a bit quicker than me maybe because of the all the reasons surrounding, you know, everything with having represented Russia before. So for me, it was a bit of a process. Like, I think I waited a good three, four years for the residency and I spent a lot of time leading up to it in Brisbane, which I absolutely loved. And then it took me about maybe four or five years, which, I mean, I think for regular person isn't a long time. But when you really want to represent someone and you start the process, I got impatient.

[A]

You might, you need a little bit of. If you see Dasha and like, she sounds very Australian now, so you still have an American kind of accent.

[C]

You know what I said it's better to just embrace whatever accent I have now than to try and fake it.

[A]

That's true. That's true. My kids get it all the time, like from their classmates and stuff. They're like, why does your mom sound different than us? I guess I could still hear that I, you know, have that whatever European English accent somewhere in there.

[B]

Well, I love that you. We sort of mentioned your family a little bit. I have loved getting to see your dad in action. I know you were with your mom in Abu Dhabi. I loved those pictures on Instagram. You're super close with your sister. You have your dog cruise. And I specifically want to ask about the relationship with your dad because he's on the court with you a lot. And we've seen many parent child relationships in tennis maybe not be as healthy looking as your relationship. You guys look like you legitimately have the best time. And I wonder what the secret to that has been for you.

[C]

Yeah, I think the first thing is that we've always, I mean, that was my dad's job. He always sort of prioritized our relationship as father and daughter. So even when we had disagreements, that was always the priority. It was never so much about the tennis. So let's say if I was disrespectful, no matter if I won the match, like there was a problem that we had to address. So didn't happen often. But, you know, in any healthy relationship, it's going to come up, especially in sports when tensions are high. But I think also the fact that growing up, my dad always had coaches provided for me, so he was never so close to me where, you know, that friction can happen. And he was very smart about that. And also, you know, he was smart enough to know that maybe he didn't have. He came from team handball, so his knowledge of tennis early on wasn't as good as it is now. So he always provided me with very good coaching. But there. There were times in my career where, you know, coaches left me and I was in that space of, you know, a couple months not having someone, sometimes even a year, and he would jump in and it would work for a period of time. But I've always said, like, we work best if there's like this middle person and he can take a step back, take care of my physical stuff and just be there more as, like a parent that really understands me mentally the best. So I even, like, now I have a coach that I love working with, and he's probably the best coach I've worked with in my career. And I hope, you know, it's the coach I end my career with, but.

[B]

Name drop.

[C]

Yes, it's Goran Perpich. And I've, you know, he coached me when I was 11, also when I was 25, and we had a bit of a break. And then I started with him back in May and really brought my love for the game back because I think after injuries, sometimes it gets really tricky and you think the love gets lost, but it's actually all the. Just setbacks and, you know, not winning, really not being where you want to be, and you think the joy is gone, but it's really about finding the right person, I think, to bring that back. So my dad, when I have a coach, he really does has a really great life. He just sits there, enjoys, watches other people.

[A]

Like, and he really does enjoy it. Like, I've seen him around. Like, he goes and watches the tennis. Like, he's close, like, with, you know, he hangs out with other coaches and parents. And like, you can see that he's really.

[C]

He has more friends than me.

[A]

It's. Yeah, you can just see that he's like, he's proud. Like, he's a proud dad. Right. And that's really nice to see. Like, it's. Yeah, we. I've also seen the other side of. Of, you know, a parent coach and. Yeah, so it's really refreshing, sad because it should be the norm, but it's, you know, it's really nice to see.

[B]

Who made you start playing tennis?

[A]

Aila.

[C]

So my mom was actually the first tennis player in our family. She stopped when she was about to early 20s. Not like, professionally, but, you know, practiced every day. And I think once my parents met, my dad fell in love with the sport, and my parents would play for fun on the weekends. And I have an older sister, so I was just the, you know, the younger sibling, always trying to copy my older sister. And I think, you know, being the younger one, no one really paid attention to me early on, so I really had to sort of fight for, like, hey, I'm here, and I want to be taken seriously. So I'm actually the one that, like, my parents put me in a group with, like, kids, and they wanted me to socialize. And my sister already had a private coach, and I was like, I want that. So my parents were like, oh, my God, we're gonna look like psychos giving her a private coach at 8 years old. Like, we're not crazy, but this child wants it. So I was really the one that always kind of pushed my parents to give me more.

[A]

That's great. What about Chrissy? Ever? Like, she's been in your corner, right? You trained or are still training at her academy quite often, or what is that relationship? What has she meant to you on a personal level and in your career?

[C]

Yeah, I met Chrissy when I was 11, 12, and she really is someone that I really clicked with right away. Just not so much, I will be honest. Obviously, I knew who Chris ever was, but I didn't know the magnitude of Chris ever. My dad was a bigger fan than me. And then when we met, it's just like there was a connection on just a human level where we clicked, you know, and we. Early on, when I moved here, she would take me to yoga on the weekends. We would almost have girl time. And she. Apart from the tennis, I think we built this foundation of, you know, being very close and being almost like really good friends. Obviously, when I was younger, it was more like almost like a motherly figure, second mom type of thing. She always used to call me her daughter. She never had because she has three boys. And over the years, I've just been so lucky to have, you know, her in a corner, like, as a mentor in a tennis way. But also now it's just she's like part of my family in a way, and everything I've gone through, she's always there. Maybe not, like, you know, on a daily basis because she also has, you know, a lot going on, but always someone I check in with and see when I come back.

[B]

For people. Isla, who maybe haven't spent as much time around Chrissy. Like, she's funny. Can you. Like, people might not see that side on commentary, but she's pretty hilarious. Would you agree?

[C]

She's a savage.

[A]

She is dry, sarcastic. Like, very.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, she will tell you straight, which I love. Do you know how many times we've had dinners and she would just drop something where everyone would just be silent and I'd just be used to it. Like, about, you know, if it was someone I was seeing and she wasn't happy with, like, hilarious stuff. And I just love her for that. Like, that's what makes her her. And I think a lot of people don't know that, like you said, because she's professional on camera.

[A]

So let's talk a little bit about, you know, some of your results. Like, you've had your best results. You know, one of the. The biggest tournaments in our. In our tennis world, right, at Wimbledon, and. And explain a little bit to me, like, what that feels like to you. Like, when you get to the grass courts, like, what it was like before and then what it is like now when, you know, like, okay, this is a tournament where, you know, I assume you feel good, you feel like you're tennis, like, everything kind of clicks, it falls into place. Explain a little bit about that relationship with Wimbledon.

[C]

Yeah. You know, before I made my first quarterfinals, which I think was in 2021, I really didn't enjoy the grass. Like, every. I kept hearing, oh, like, you have the best game for this. But it never clicked. I hated the fact that things would happen so quick, and I felt like I wasn't always in control. And I think it was because I didn't know myself mentally yet, so I couldn't move on quickly. Let's say I get broken or something. I felt like the match was over, you know, and then the. Just one year, I just. I don't know, I felt really good leading up. And I messaged one of my friends. I still remember it. And I was like, I think this is my year where I'm going to, like, there's going to be a change, like in Wimbledon. And I just. I don't know, like, things have. Things happen in that. Like, it was a bit dramatic, I know, like with that Costa Penko match and then Emma retiring. So it was a lot. And it was Covid, it was the bubble. My. You know, I didn't have my usual entourage there. Of course. My dad was there, but, like, my mom, my sister, so. And it just was a bit surreal. And then I got. I mean, I got whacked against Ash on center court, which, like, brought me back.

[A]

Tough layer on grass, right? Yeah.

[C]

I mean, I love Ash to death. Amazing player. But I was one of those that was happy when she retired because I didn't have to face her anymore because she was just. I mean, I didn't know what to do. Like, she really made me scratch my head. And I think then, coming back next year, there was that sense of belief that I just know kind of what my game on the grass is, and. And I think once you have that belief, you're such a different player. I could have played the same level, but going into matches where actually, no, I can win, I mean, makes all the difference, really.

[B]

Isla, What. On sort of that note, and. And at this point in your career, what is your belief like, and what do you think you're capable of from now until, you know, the day you decide it's time to move on to something else?

[C]

I'm not gonna lie. It goes in waves. I have days where I'm like, oh, my God, you know, I can still hang with the best, but then there are days where I'm like, I feel far away. But I think that's just my mind also, you know, being a bit. I guess it's my mind. I don't know. I've always.

[A]

I think we all have that, and I think we all have that.

[C]

Yeah, it took me a bit longer maybe, than others, even in. Before my injuries, like, I always needed that extra, like, no, you can do it, you know, and. And I think that's where my dad has always been, in a way, my biggest believer and cheerleader. But I. I do still believe it's just more now about staying healthy and, you know, having those runs where it makes you believe even more. But also, I just. I think being closer sort of to the end than the beginning, I really do appreciate the life I'm living. So I just want to really enjoy it, because I hate some of the years I've sort of wasted not enjoying it and just being so overly concerned about things that don't really matter, which is losing, because there's a. Like, every other week there's a new opportunity. So I'm just trying to have that headspace and not have regrets once I finish, because I see that a lot in our sport. Where, you know, I've talked to a few people that have stopped, and they're like, oh, I wish I enjoyed it more, and I don't want to be that person.

[A]

No, do you. Do you. Are you thinking about that moment now? Like, and I get it, like, with the injuries, and you think, like, okay, can I come back from this? Can I. Can I get to the level where I want to be? What if I don't get to that level? Like, how long can I maintain that? Like, is that something that plays in your mind? Because I feel like you. You can have different kind of people where there's people who think about that and. And, like, you know, to plan kind of, you know, their. Their last few years. And then you have players that. And we've seen it. You know, Danielle Collins, right? Like, she was like, I'm retiring. This is my last year. She has good results, and then she decides to add another year. You have Serana Kirsteo, who's now announced that she's, you know, who knows, if she keeps on playing the way that she has been playing these, you know, first few weeks of this year and last year, like, maybe, you know, maybe she'll. Do you think about that at all? Like, do you talk about the structure of that? Like, how you would like to see your career end, or are you just, like, let's just wait and see how the results go and play it by ear kind of?

[C]

I thought about it a lot in the last two years, especially seeing that I almost, at one point was like, I don't think I have the level anymore. Like, I don't see myself getting better just because of, you know, I wasn't consistently healthy. I had a bit of pain, and I just saw the level of tennis going up and up, and I. I felt like I couldn't catch up. And I ended up, you know, I think that's why I started to just do a bit of more media work and almost, like, think about, what do I like outside of tennis? And it took a bit of pressure off. And, you know, once I started, like, commentating a bit, I was like, no, no, I still want to be the one I'm commentating about. Like, it kind of clicked with me, and I think then starting to work with Goran again, he really brought back that. That belief. And I actually am very close with Sarana. So. The fact that you mentioned is funny because we talked about this last year a lot, and I was like, I think it was after Europe. I was like, you know what? This is my last year. I just did it in my head and I spoke to my dad and my team and I was like, I think this could be potentially it. Because if I'm not happy, what's the point? And I just slowly kept coming back. I didn't want to. Obviously, I'm never going to be the type to announce something like that because I think with my personality, I could change my mind the next day. So I'm going to look stupid.

[B]

Same decide a phobia over here.

[C]

But it really helped me, like, take every tournament and just enjoy it as if it's my last. And I mean, now, after Australia, I was like, dad, I'm gonna make it to LA28. And he's like, great. So I'm not putting any. Like, if I can. As long as I'm happy, healthy, enjoying myself, I'm gonna keep going.

[A]

Did you feel weird walking into a tournament without, like, a tennis bag and just knowing that you're there for commentary if you're doing, like, TV work?

[C]

I secretly hate it.

[A]

I know. It's so. Yeah, you feel so out of place. You're like, wait, what is happening right now?

[C]

I think, you know, I think once I really call it, and if that's, you know, my next chapter, I think I will enjoy it because it will be clear. But now, when I'm still a player, and then once I lose, I start doing this. I feel this, like, sense of, okay, it's fun doing something different, but it's like, man, I want to be there, you know? So it's a bit, like, tough.

[A]

Your routines are so. You're so used to the routine of a player, and then all of a sudden you're like. Like, wait, what?

[C]

Yeah, and I'm not very good at it, too, so, like, it's fun to do something you're not great, like, very good at yet, you know, because I'm learning a lot.

[A]

You are, though. Yeah. But you have a very natural way of speaking and, you know, your experience, sharing your experiences. So that's great. That's what people want to want to hear.

[B]

I agree. And I want to talk more about sort of that side of your life. But before we get to that, I have one more tennis question. You are known for many things, and as we've mentioned, you've played some of your best tennis on the biggest stages. And nowhere was that more clear than at the US Open in 2022, when you became the last person to beat Serena Williams on Arthur Ashe Stadium. I mean, I can't even imagine what it was like walking out there for that match. But, Isla, the question here is she might be coming back. How do you feel about maybe not being the last person to beat Serena Williams?

[C]

Yeah, my. My time in the history books lasted four years. I'll take it. I mean, what can I do? But I'm just happy that if she. Look, she's coming back, because you don't get on that list if you're not. Of course, like, let's be honest, whether it's for singles, doubles, whatever, but I think for tennis, it's awesome. And you know what? The fact that she is clearly, she. She believes she can win a slam, which it makes me think, like, wow. I want to see, like, it's gonna be exciting again. You know, tennis needed something more. I don't know. So it's cool.

[A]

Yeah. The fact that she takes on that challenge is, like, cool to watch.

[C]

I do hope I don't play her again, though, because I don't want to go through that again. Not an Arthur Ash.

[A]

No. That was. Yeah.

[B]

What were the nerves like in that match?

[C]

It's such a blur. I don't even remember. I just. Just remember, like, thinking that, you know what? Screw this. This is my moment to have never made the fourth round in US Open, and I don't really know what to expect, but, like, there was a bit of that anger, which I really liked about myself. I'm usually a bit more, you know, like, let's play. But it did bring out this bitchiness in me, even if it couldn't show. But it was like, I'm here, too, and I just played probably the most measured match mentally, in my career. I look back now, I'm like, how did I do it? Because I feel crazy sometimes.

[A]

Very interesting to hear. I feel like. Right. Do you feel like you've been able to get back to that once you felt that? Have you been able to revive that kind of emotion in other matches, or was it because of the situation, because of the moment that you were able to get into that space?

[C]

Yeah, I think once the match started, I think I threw a few commands, like, in this first set, and I saw, like, the backlash, and I was like, whoa, okay, this won't work today. Like, I think I'm gonna have to go into my shell a bit and just focus. So I think being in the match, experiencing it firsthand, I think is what got me to be like, okay, this is how it's gonna be today. I don't think going into it was what I had. I didn't have a plan Really, I just knew that it's probably going to be crazy, but now, like, a couple years ago, when I felt, like, really anxious on court, I often try to go back to those moments, that whole US Open where I just was really good mentally, you know, staying in my zone and. And really letting points go if it didn't go my way. And I don't know, like, yeah, it's funny, even in matches now, I'll think back to that and be like, just channel that. But it's not as easy.

[B]

Well, in Australia, Isla, I happened to see Ivelisse walking through the player hallways.

[C]

She was.

[B]

She was all dressed up. And I said, what? You know, what you doing? Because she had already lost there. And she said, I had my interview with Isla for Tennis Channel today. So she was on your show Love Isla. So if you guys have not checked out Love Isla, which I love that it's called Love Isla, and we're Love all. I feel like we could feel like a love all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, okay. But I chuckled in my own head. But one of the things that you asked her, one of the clips that they put out from that interview, you said, I know your DM must be popping. And when I saw that, all I thought to myself is, I want to say the same thing to Aila. I know your DMs must be popping.

[C]

What.

[B]

What goes on in the DM world for Ayla Tomjanovic?

[A]

Because we're too old. We don't. We don't know any of that stuff.

[B]

That ship is sailed.

[C]

It's more fun when you're asking others about their Diaz. You know what they're. They're popping. Not in the right way, though. Like, they're popping, but, like, I want them to pop, like, with different people, if you know what I mean. Like, I don't know. I. I don't. I sometimes look, because there's a lot of hate, too. So I. I don't always look at, you know, what there is. But I'm not gonna lie, I've met a few people through DMs that I've never met in real life. And that's, I think, fun and the power of social media. But. Oh, I'm. I'm not. I don't know. I'm not as brave as I sound when I'm asking others about it.

[B]

No, that's fair enough. But it's an interesting question, though.

[A]

Just.

[B]

I mean, we've watched you. You have. And Kim sort of has a similar backstory where she had also very public relationships in the tennis world. I cannot imagine what that would be like. I feel like that stuff is tough enough to navigate when you have no extra eyeballs. What has that been like for you? What have you learned from that process? Because not only was it in the headlines, but you guys were on the Netflix break point. It was out there. And then there's a breakup. And how do you deal?

[C]

Well, when you're young and naive is. I guess you don't think about, like, breakups when you're in a relationship. Like, you don't think about that because everything's rosy and great and you're like, oh, please happen to me. Yeah, Like, I'll cross that bridge when I get there. And then the bridge comes in, you're like, oh, that maybe wasn't the greatest call. But look, looking back. Yeah, if I had a daughter, I'd probably be like, listen, maybe date outside of your sport. Because most likely it won't work out. The odds are stacked against you. But look, it was my journey. I think I learned a lot. I grew thick skin. And, I mean, years later, I can. I'm, like, the easiest person to joke around. I live with my parents that have no filter, and, like, it's like, even right after the breakup, they're throwing jokes, and it's fine. Like, it's part of life. I think there are nice moments as well. So it is what it is. It's not that, you know, it's not that serious at the end. It's my 20s.

[A]

Right. There must be something with dads that, like, played, like, sports professionally, like, who are so laid back and, like, can joke about all that, because it sounds so similar to how, like, I grew up at home and the jokes and the teasing and the sarcasm and you just have to deal with it, and it is what it is. Like, you know, that kind of makes it all feel a little lighter after all. So good. Good for your dad.

[C]

Yeah, my mom's probably a little more serious about it.

[B]

Kim was telling me that. That what? What did you say, Kim? About the combined events versus.

[A]

They were like, when I was younger, like, I was like, the combined events are exciting because, you know, I get to see my boyfriend and, like, because we don't get to see each other. And then when you guys break up, it's like, oh, how can I avoid these? I hate these combined events.

[C]

I don't know if this happens happen to you, but, like, when I was not dating a tennis player, I loved my time for myself. Like, I was like, oh, my God. Okay, if my Relationship worked out and it was the, you know, the end all. Be all great. But I look at now some of the couples, and I'm like, oh, when I finish a match, I love just going back to my hotel, not trying to coordinate schedules, not having to sit there for five hours because the match can go on for that long. Not thinking about, oh, where are you going to eat dinner? Here? Like, no, it's all about me. When I start dating someone, too, when they come see me, I'm the boss. So, like, you know, I just love that part, right?

[A]

My. I. I think I've pissed off coaches and, like, probably my. My dad, too. Like, where I should have gone? Played somewhere. Like, I should have added a tournament, but I was like, no, I'm going to go to the men's tour and go cheer and go be a supportive girlfriend. And. And my, you know, my dad was like, what are you doing? Like, this is your career. Like, be in the. Like, I'm like, okay, I get it now. Like, you know, I have a job, daughter. But that moment of, like, having your own time to me, hit really hard. After I had Jada, like, I played one tournament without having her at the event. That was in Doha, the. The end of the year, the WTA Finals. And, yeah, it was. I was like, what did I do with my. With my time before I had her? Like, what did I. Like, what was I doing in my room? Like, just watching tv, tennis on tv, reading. Like, what was I doing? And so it's. Yeah, that alone time is probably something I crave now more than ever.

[C]

Well, that's the same. I'm very close with Belinda Benchic. Like, when we go to dinner together, she's like. And we're, you know, we're finishing. She's like, guys, it's my night off. Let's, like, let's have more fun. We're like, girl, it's. It's over.

[B]

That's amazing. She's like, let's go to the club.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So funny.

[C]

Well, that's.

[B]

That's really interesting to hear. Hear that side of things, Isla, but because you are now, like, we'll call you honorary media member until you're an official media member. I have no doubt that will happen, and you will be extremely successful when you want to fully go that route. But I would love to throw out some names, Kim, as well, of current players, players that you have faced and have you tell us what makes them so effective on the court. Sound good?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, let's start with Arena Sabalenka you know what?

[C]

I haven't played her since. She's been dominating for the last few years. But I called her match courtside against Boko, and it was just, you know, what was so impressive was first of all, the fact that even if she misses two balls, she keeps going the same way after it. And it clicked. I was like, okay, yeah, so she's. It's the champions mentality. The belief never wavers. And then that second ball after she serves, like, the second ball, she's probably. She's the best at it. I mean, because, you know, Vicky hit some amazing returns and. And you would be either put on the defense or you would even miss it. And she either neutralizes or actually goes even harder. So you never really get her off balance. Like, you really have to do almost. I kept watching, I was like, what can Vicky do better? And it's like, well, nothing. Just play much, much better at that level. So I do think, obviously she didn't win Australian Open, but she is. It feels like she is a bit of a. She's a player right now. Where we look at it and there's all this conversation be like, what is she doing better than everyone else to, like, close that gap, you know?

[A]

Question, do you look at the. When you're commentating, do you look at it as a player? Like, do you feel like. Like, oh, I can. I want to know this, I want to look at this. Or I'm picking up things as a player that I know I can use. Like, there's moments that, when I started commentating after I retired that I felt like, ooh, if I would have known this. You know, when you, like, body language, little, like, moments of doubt that you can see when you're, you know, sitting in the back of the court, things that we don't get to see when you're on the opposite side of the net, I was like, oh, Serena, like, she. You can see sometimes, like, the doubt in her, in her, in her eyes if she's. Or, you know, and the same with Sabalanka. Like, we can see that on tv, but a lot of times when you're standing across the net from where you don't see that. So as a player, sometimes it's really good to remind yourself that even those top players will have moments where they're in doubt or where they're not feeling as comfortable, but you just don't see that when you're worried about your own side of the court and your level and your tactics and all that. So do you feel like You've picked up on things where you say like, oh, this is interesting. I want to kind of store that and take that with me when I go back out there playing.

[C]

Yeah. 100. I mean, well now when I do that, I, I still look at it so much as a player. What can I learn? Especially for example, I've never played in Boko, even in practice and I feel like if I were to maybe go player, I have an idea what her game is like. And even, you know, she's so measured, her demeanor and with Arena, I mean, yeah, I don't, I didn't pick up too many weaknesses in that match at least. But the thing is, you see that they're all human and you look, it got to a breaker, she was in control for a set and a half and then it gets to a breaker and you see that, you know, it's, the tensions are constantly high. So it definitely calling matches like that helps me so much in my tennis and I still view it, I don't know if I'll ever hope, probably years later I'll view it more as a just commentator, but for now it's definitely like, oh, what does she do well, what is the other person doing that's hurting her? What's not working? So I do look at it like that and maybe it helps my commentating as well for sure.

[A]

What about Coco Golf? Give me your, your thoughts, Coco.

[C]

I mean I, I love her mentality. Like, I think especially, I think we forget she's only, what is she, 21? She even legal yet? And we don't put her in that category anymore because she's been, been at the top of our sport for years now and, and that pressure that everyone puts on her is, is kind of ridiculous because I think that, I mean her number, she's a two time Grand Slam champion, right? Did I get that right? I don't know. Is it two? Yeah. And you know, when, when you play her, she's someone that you really gotta beat her because she's never gonna go away. She, and if, let's say she's not, not having the best day tennis wise, she's so athletic that she's gonna make. You have to earn it just based off of her athleticism. And not many players have that. I mean, I played her, you know, in US Open, I thought I played a pretty good match much better than I thought it. I didn't go into it thinking I had the greatest shot. And you know, she's struggling with the serve, but even like double faulting, so Much. She still made the quarters. It's like the mental strength it takes to do that. People underestimate it, you know.

[A]

Samsonova. Oh, oh.

[B]

I asked him who she want to throw out today. This. She, she's like, I'm gonna look it up. Okay.

[A]

Love this.

[C]

Probably, yeah. One of the biggest hitters on tour. I mean, it's 100%. I think I played her in that 2022 year twice in the US Open series. I lost to her in Washington and then I won at the US Open. But I remember thinking, you know, if you just hang in with her, she can have matches where she goes on a role and it's just sometimes too good. But with her, it does sometimes feel like if you weather the storm and put in a little bit of variety, it's what can hurt her. But she's been one of those players that I'm sometimes thinking like, oh, well, can she consistently do that? And she has been so, you know, she definitely belongs in that for sure, obviously top 20 range. But also I think she does have the ability to go very deep in Slams, which I don't know if she's ever made a semi yet, but I think that the Slams are where she sort of for now hasn't excelled, but. Except Wimbledon.

[A]

But it's, it's very interesting because like the Slams can be, you know, the, the fact that it is a two week kind of period can be very heavy mentally as well for a lot of players. Right. Like when you're, you know, always switched on and in that tennis mode and you're focused and that two week period can be a long kind of time with the pressure with, you know, the intensity that it comes with it. And then when you're supposed to play some of your best towards the end stages can sometimes be that little breaking point for a lot of people. So yeah, interesting, like he's the player to me that, that I think has all the qualities right to, to push like you said, maybe get to that semi final and. But yeah, interesting for, you know, all of us I think, to see there's.

[C]

A bit more pressure on these seeds when you go into. Because now I think it really doesn't matter what number you have in front of your name. Everyone comes in and there's no good draw. Like, no, you got to play well from the get go. And I think maybe some of these seeds are sometimes under more pressure than, than, than the non seated players because they feel like they should make it to like, you know, the second week, whereas maybe you're you're unseated. You don't go into feeling like, I need to beat Samsunova if I'm 60 and she's 18 or whatever.

[A]

Right, Right. Yeah, for sure. That has definitely changed in our sport. Like, when people ask me, like, what are the biggest differences? I feel like in the early 2000s, you know, everybody, like, in the media room, like, fans, like, it was like, you could pencil in almost like all the quarterfinalists, like, basically. Right. And. And now that has definitely changed a lot, and we see a lot more upsets and really close matches from the beginning, whereas I feel like in the early 2000s, there was still a big gap. A lot of players would win. The seeded players would win very easily. Maybe once in a while there was an upset, but not as frequently as we see it now, which is great for the sport.

[C]

Can I ask you something?

[A]

Sure.

[C]

What do you think? Like, do you think the depth is stronger now, or do you think the top is weaker than when you. I mean, you played through many, like, even, like, generations. Yeah, generations. But what. I. I never really know the right answer to that, because I haven't. And I personally think that I'm a much better player now than I was in my early 20s. But then I do sometimes hear these comments that, you know, the top isn't as strong as it used to be, but the depth is. So what do you. What do you think having played?

[A]

I feel like the depth is definitely stronger. I. I do think that the level. I think the level is. Is different, and I feel like the tennis is different. I think back in the day, you. You didn't have as many hard hitters, right? You didn't have as many players that grew up watching Venus and Serena and. And, you know, I think probably Venus more than. Than Serena, but Serena has the. The old court. You know, she has everything, right? The serve. A lot of players kind of had to step in. I remember playing Lindsay Davenport for the first time being like, holy moly. Like, she hits the ball so hard. She hits the ball so deep. Like, what can I do to this? To. Like, I need to. I need to get fitter. I need to, you know, take my racket back a little bit sooner, like, just to be able to compete in the rally with her. But I do think that the depth has. Has gotten better, because kids that we're watching, that generation know that there's only one way to win and be consistent is to play an aggressive type of tennis. And then if you can have that aggressiveness, but then add, you know, a Net. A net game. If you can add, you know, the backhand slice, where you can kind of add a little bit of variety. You know, everybody's fit now, right? Like, there's everybody. We all have seen the intensity or the shift in, you know, how many players are traveling with their own physio these days, right? Like, that wasn't the case with their own fitness coach. When I started on tour, that wasn't the case. There was maybe three or four people that had the luxury to be able to do that. But now, like, it's such a norm that players have four or five team members and, you know, they have the physio and they have their own fitness coach and things like that. So it's. It's. The players have gotten fitter. They hit the ball heavier, I think, than. Maybe not that the top players back then, but the general depth of it. I do feel like the level has definitely gotten stronger.

[C]

Do you think, like, someone, like, for example, I always think about this, like, Radwanska, she played very different. Do you think she would. I mean, this is such a dumb question for me, but be as good. Like, would that game style survive in today's powerful hitting?

[A]

I think it could, because a lot of players don't have the answers to. To deal with that. She loved that pa. She loved hitting against the hard hitters. That's where she got her. Her pace from. If. If you let her play against somebody who likes to hit the loopy balls and somebody who slices and adds a lot of variety, that was not what she liked. Like, she wants you to, you know, where she can just take the racket back, that low kind of short back swinging and just counter punch. She was a great mover. She could anticipate really well. Didn't have a strong serve, weak second serve where if I played her, I was like, okay, I have to attack the second serve. But she loves that speed, right? Like, she loves the players that hit the ball hard. And these days, I feel like, you know, not a lot of players like hitting against these hard players because it takes away their strength and the control, right? Their own. Their own dominance on court. And that's, I think, what you see with the best. Now, if you saw at the Australian Open, Sabalenka against Rybakina, it's like it all comes down to, okay, who's able to keep the unforced errors down, but is in charge early on in the rally. Like you said, Sabalenka, that second shot is so important, but that gets taken away by Rybakina because she's such a good server on first and second serve. And so she makes you lose a little bit of your. Lose your strength that give you that confidence that you gain throughout a match when you're able to, you know, stack up on points like that. And, and so it's. Yeah, it's, it's very interesting. You know, the game has, has definitely changed.

[C]

Yeah, it's like, who can assert themselves first with that aggressive game? Because even Irina doesn't like, if you press her.

[A]

No, of course.

[C]

Like, who can do that because you.

[A]

Take their strength away and that's when, you know, the mental side of it starts playing a role too. And yeah, there's no, I feel like there's no way, like, if you're a young girl growing up, if you have the physical capabilities, right, to do it is to play aggressive, but then develop early on the skill to be able to come into the net and like, use the slice on a far wide backhand, like, and just really, really use that as a tool. Right. To kind of break the rhythms a little bit of the opponents that love that like one way rhythm all the time.

[C]

Yeah, 100%. And I think watching Irina, like you, you actually see how much spin she puts on the ball. It's actually not flat.

[A]

No, the whole. And she has a huge backswing too, so she can really get under it. You know, it's like for like, say like a Ravanska with her technique, it was a lot harder to get a lot of topspin because she has such a short kind of flat backswing. But Sabalenka actually on both sides is able to have that heavy ball, but also at the same time step in and hit a really flat ball. And so she has that variety that she can really use too. And you have that too, though. Like, you can hit a heavy topspin ball, but you can also really hit it flat when you, when you want to step in and.

[C]

Or when you're playing somebody about the. Reminded about clearing the net.

[B]

Yeah, but, yeah, girl, there's another.

[A]

Yeah, but it's, it's all part of it.

[C]

But I think it was a great point. What you said that I never really heard before is that everyone now trained that way to, to be aggressive, whereas, like, you just don't see many players being not heavy hitters or training that way.

[B]

Isla, before you leave us, we had some breaking news come in while we were chatting and that's that the Credit one Charleston Open is going to be awarding record prize money and unprecedented $2.5 million to players, and that's for a WTA 500 tournament. So you have to. People have to keep that in mind, that there are different prize money levels for different levels of tournament. But I'm curious, as a player, throughout your career, what have you seen in terms of the way women's tennis is trending, the opportunities for women's tennis players, the compensation for women's tennis players, and where can it still improve?

[C]

Well, I don't know if you're asking the right person, just because, like, growing up, I never really knew, like, even how much money I made until, like, the end of the year comes and my dad's doing my tax, and he, like, these are your expenses. This is how much you made. So I think since I've become an adult, I had to get a bit more involved, and I saw that, like, trend of, you know, the prize money from my first time I played a main drop, a slam, to now. I mean, incredible. And that's when you see, like, really the growth in women's tennis and just women's sports. I think we must be leading in women's sports, like, just with, you know, sort of equality compared to the men. And to read this, I mean, I'm not surprised just because Ben Navarro has always been, you know, pushing the envelope for women's tennis. And with Charleston, first of all, even if the prize money wasn't this, that's always been a stop on the tour that I would never miss. Also partly because I can bring Cruise, but even with Cincinnati, you know, like, and doing that, I think it shows other tournaments. Okay. Like, this is sort of, you know, the trend, and if you want to follow and it just. It gets the conversation going, and I think that's where change can slowly happen. So, I mean, it's unbelievable. Like, I Wish I was 20 right now that I can keep playing for another 10 years.

[A]

You can. You can.

[B]

You sure can, girl. You can go to mid-40s. That envelope is being pushed every day. But I think that's such cool perspective, player.

[A]

Years ago, somebody brought to my attention that I never played Charleston because it was just after Indian Wells, Miami, like, I wanted to go back home and just play, like, prepare for the red clay court season.

[B]

She was winning those tournaments.

[A]

No, no, it was.

[C]

Tell me, Blair.

[A]

I know it was. No, it was purely like, listen, I need to. I know that, you know, it takes me a while to get used to, like, my movement on clay. Like, I want to put a good training period in before I start playing my matches. That was the mindset behind it. And then like a few years after I retired, I think, you know, somebody came up to me, he's like, you know that you are the only number one who's never played Charleston. I was like, wait, what? I'm so sorry. I did not know that. So. And I hear so many great stories about the tournament and, and, and it looks amazing on tv. So I, you know, definitely might have to just take, you know, a little drive and go visit and they bring.

[B]

In former players every year though. They do a great job of bringing in former players for chats and ambassadorships and all the things. So it's not too late. Kim.

[A]

Yeah. Just need my Achilles to get better if I want to be on court.

[B]

I know, but Isla, this has been such a pleasure as, as Kim and I said as we were preparing for this, we're like, the problem is going to be that we could talk to her for hours. So how are we going to narrow it it down? We certainly could have talked for much longer, but we so appreciate your time today.

[C]

Can I just say one thing, please? Because my, my 10 year old would never forgive me. I don't know if you know this Blair. I told this Kim, but she maybe forgot, but I never had like a favorite player growing up, but Kim was always someone that I like, watched and when she played all those finals with Justine Hennan. Yeah, it was just like surreal to me. Once I came on tour and Kim was, was one of those that like, you know when you meet someone you've watched and then they exceed your expectations. Meeting him, that was Kim, I think. Yeah. So this is really very cool for me just because even though now I'm older, I still don't forget those things. So what an honor that just to, you know, be on the pod and know you personally.

[A]

There you go. Yeah, no, thank you.

[B]

Oh my gosh. That's like my serotonin boost for the day.

[A]

That's so sweet. I'm ready for a workout.

[B]

Yeah, no, for sure. Well, let's have an in person reunion. If you need, if you need to ask anyone else about her DMs. Kim will.

[C]

Come on.

[B]

Love Isla. I am volunteering her as tribute.

[C]

Yeah. Maybe someone should interview me so I can show my DMs. No, we don't need that. We don't need that.

[A]

Oh my gosh. I'm like, I don't know, old. I don't like. Blair made me do a TikTok like, like a few weeks ago. I was like, TikTok. I'm Like, I don't even have the app. Like, I don't. What are we doing?

[B]

Like, Isla, does the world not need more Kim Kleister's TikToks?

[A]

No, I didn't get her to do.

[B]

A second one, and she declined. And I said, kim, this is just part of the life of a podcaster.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No, no, this is what they love is the people that didn't grow up with it doing them well.

[B]

On that note, Isla giving us life advice. TikTok all the things. So much fun.

[A]

Thanks. Best to your family. Have a good practice.

[C]

Thank you. Bye.

[A]

Bye.

[D]

Kraft Mac and Cheese is better than 90s hip hop. We'll remind you of your childhood without making you feel incredibly old. Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever.

[B]

That was such a good conversation. We record this in the morning. I cannot think of a better way to have have started my day.

[A]

She's the best. She's great.

[B]

So much fun. Kim, before we part ways for the day, and I know you have to go, but I cannot leave without mentioning. Well, I'm gonna give you a chance to redeem yourself. Your served bracket challenge during the Australian Open. I just want to say thank you so much for. Because as a Hall of Famer, I'm.

[A]

Making you look better.

[B]

You can come in last, and it's okay if I come in last. It's like, who's this yahoo who has no idea what she's talking about? So I just want to say thank you so much for being slightly less good at that. I'm sure. I'm sure come Roland Garros, you'll be at the top of the leaderboard.

[A]

But no, don't be sure. Don't be sure.

[B]

But in Dallas this week, Kim, can we do a mini bracket challenge? Do you have any predictions for Dallas?

[A]

I think I need to stick a little bit more to, like, the, you know, the numbers. And I did. Look, I saw there was, like, 17Americans in the draw, so more than half. So I'm going to pick an American to win. To win the tournament. Was it Shop of Olive who won last year's Canadian? Right. So I'm not going to go with him as a defending champion, but I'm gonna go with the number two seed, Ben Shelton, as the winner.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right. Okay.

[C]

Oh, good.

[A]

You.

[B]

I thought we were gonna play the percentages there.

[A]

I get really bored with these long draws. I get the Australian Open. I was at the hairdresser, and I was like, all right, let's just go. I.

[B]

You doing your bracket?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Amazing. Well, that's that you were distracted, Kim. It was.

[A]

No, I wasn't. It's bored. No, it's bored. I put. I picked Anna Samova as a winner. Not a bad choice. I was like, I'm gonna risk it, right? I don't want to go with the obvious, and I'd like to. I don't like to gamble in real life, but I like to gamble with those kind of things because I'm like, yeah, like, let's see who you know, guess. Work out too well.

[B]

Hilarious.

[A]

Who won it eventually? Was it Andy?

[B]

It was Andy. Yeah. Andy, John, me and. And you. So we gotta. We gotta do better at Roland Garros, but we'll. We'll see how you do. I'm glad we're just keeping those bracket muscles working here at the Dallas Open this week.

[A]

And I'm glad that mine are not shared to the public because I wouldn't want people to actually, like, bet on my calls or on my bracket.

[B]

They may have learned their lesson.

[A]

Yes, please don't.

[B]

But I cannot wait to see how things shake out this week. This has been so much fun. Love talking to you, Kim. Love talking to same, Blair.

[A]

Thank you, Isla.

[B]

You can check us out every Wednesday with a new episode. Make sure to like and subscribe on YouTube. Follow us at. Love all podcasts on all of the socials, and we will see you next week.

[A]

Here we go.

[B]

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[D]

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[B]

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