Alex Michelsen Joins The Show, ATP Stars Stranded in Dubai, & More

Summary

Served with Andy Roddick — Episode Summary

Episode: Alex Michelsen Joins The Show, ATP Stars Stranded in Dubai, & More
Date: March 3, 2026
Host: Andy Roddick with regular co-hosts (Jon Wertheim, Mike, Sean, JW)
Guest: Alex Michelsen

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Episode Overview

This episode blends tennis culture, current ATP/women’s tour storylines, and a lively, candid interview with rising American tennis star Alex Michelsen. The group dives into recent events, including dramatic geopolitical developments stranding top ATP players in Dubai, the evolving significance of college tennis, and quirky tennis stats—their banter punctuated by warmth, self-deprecating humor, and behind-the-scenes insights. Michelsen’s segment stands out for its authenticity, humor, and practical wisdom on young pros’ journeys.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recent Tennis Headlines: College Success & Homecomings (02:44–08:22)

• Peyton Stearns’ Austin Win: Celebration of homecoming triumphs in tennis—winning where you went to school.
  • “Peyton Stearns winning in Austin over Taylor Townsend. I love Taylor Townsend, but cool story. Go to a little university in Austin. Go win the tournament at Westwood. That's where I used to practice.” (02:49)
• Comparison to stars like Federer (Basel), McEnroe (Queens), and Naomi Osaka’s win in Osaka.
• Taylor Townsend’s Breakthrough: First tour semifinal, discussion of her career resilience.
  • “First time she had made a tour semifinal, which is crazy to me, because every time I watch Taylor play, I just think she's so good.” (05:20)
• Townsend’s “chip on her shoulder” and underdog mentality featured via soundbite:
  • Taylor Townsend (clip):
    • “I’m creating a legacy for myself and, you know, doing it my way...everyone that's talk shit, they got to eat their words. So, I’m still standing…I hope they buckle up.” (06:03)

2. ATP Tour News: Medvedev’s Unique Record & Dubai Crisis (08:22–27:30)

• Francis Tiafoe & Rankings: Banter on milestone “cracking” rankings.
  • “At what ranking are you not allowed to say 'cracks the top'?” (09:07)
• Daniil Medvedev’s Statistical Quirk: His first ever successful title defense—23rd title, but first repetition in the same city.
  • “He had previously won 21 titles in 21 different cities. Never repeated in one city…First time he had ever won a tournament again in the same city.” (11:01–11:38)
• Medvedev’s Hall of Fame Case:
  • "23 titles, including a major and all different surfaces. This is a really elite career. Hall of Fame’s a lock for Meddy." (13:32–15:36)

Notable Quote — Tennis Stat Madness

"My favorite statistic in all of tennis is no more...He had previously won 21 titles in 21 different cities. Never repeated in one city. 22 titles in 20—a lot of titles in a lot of cities..."
— Andy Roddick, (11:01)

3. ATP Players Stranded in Dubai: Tennis Meets Geopolitics (16:56–27:30)

• Crisis Overview: ~40 ATP players/coaches/staff are stuck in a hotel in Dubai after airspace is shut during ongoing Middle East tensions.
  • "ATP is closely monitoring the evolving situation...health and safety and well being of our players, staff and tournament personnel is our priority." (18:05)
  • “They and their teams are being accommodated in tournament’s official hotels…awaiting an evacuation plan.” (19:30)
  • Medvedev’s Response: Calm in crisis:
    • “As strange as it sounds, on the court I’m very emotional, but in real life…it might actually help…For me everything is normal.” (18:39)
• Human Perspective:
  • “For some reason…if there’s anything I encourage our audience to do…pretend like you know the people and see if that affects the way that you take in information.” (22:29–23:58)
  • "The least important part of any global conflict is millionaire tennis players that are slightly uncomfortable...But in comparison to most people...most people can't clear the border and get on a jet." (24:09–24:20)
• Effect on Indian Wells draw: ATP will not penalize stranded players with a “zero” round loss if they can’t play.

Notable Quote — Empathy Check

“When you hear something and read something…just pretend like you know the people. Maybe it’ll hit the way it should hit, in my opinion.”
— Andy Roddick, (23:58)

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FEATURE INTERVIEW: Alex Michelsen (29:14–50:56)

1. The Journey: From College Debates to ATP Breakthrough

• Background & Decision Not to Attend College:

  • Parents emphasized education. Until he made a big ranking jump (from 250→140 ATP), he was still torn.
  • "My dad's a lawyer, my mom a teacher...they really wanted me to go to school...I wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed in the classroom...then I won a challenger and finaled Newport...it was kind of a no-brainer." (00:49, 32:00)

• Unique Upbringing:

  • Grew up in California, describes the SoCal tennis culture as "laid back".
  • Practiced with his parents every day until 15.

• Late Bloomer:

  • "I was a very average junior before COVID...wasn't great. I lost a lot of matches. Trust me, I wasn't that good as a junior." (38:32)

2. Pathway Levels: Juniors, Challengers & Tour Realities

• Levels Explained:

  • Progression from juniors, to junior Slams, to Futures (“playing for a McDonald’s gift card”), to Challengers, then the ATP Tour.
  • “Everyone’s just…clawing at you in the Futures and Challengers…then you get on tour and all these guys…know how to beat me. It just gets higher and higher…physically, mentally, tennis-wise.” (35:51)

• Key Quality — Handling Pressure Points:

  • “The guys in the top hundred play the pressure points unbelievable…every time I’m playing a guy that’s really good and I have a break point, they’re making a first serve 80% of the time.” (37:58)

3. Unconventional Style: Natural Lefty Playing Right-Handed

• Why Right-Handed?

  • Started hitting right-handed backhands at age 3. Tried to switch to lefty at 6, threatened to quit tennis unless kept right-handed.
  • “If you switch me to left, I’m quitting tennis. Apparently I said that…and my brother had just quit tennis. So they left it. They definitely tried…” (41:11)

• Humorous Self-Reflection:

  • “My backhand was sick. My backhand’s always been really good. But my serve and forehand were horrendous…I couldn’t put a ball on the court on my forehand side because I’m left-hand dominant and I’m playing right-handed…because I’m really smart.” (39:30)

4. Rivalry & Camaraderie: Lerner Tien and the ATP Friend Group

• On the Tien Rivalry:
  • Lifelong training partner, matches crisscross as their games develop.
  • "We're definitely going like this since we were 12, just kind of going on top of each other...We love each other, but we definitely want to beat each other every time we go out there." (44:39)
  • Michelsen up 3-1 in head-to-head ("3:1, baby!") (45:27)
• Motivating Each Other:
  • “He was like, ‘dude, you finaled your first challenger?’...But you kind of just level up...when I made third round Aussie, he was like, ‘dude, you’re so good.’" (46:28)

5. Indian Wells, Clippers Fandom, and Life Off-Tour

• “Hometown Tournament” Myths:
  • “I went [to Indian Wells] once when I was eight…I was always playing tournaments.” (48:00)
• Room in Childhood Home:
  • Interviewed from his childhood bedroom, decorated with posters—still sleeps in a small bed, "have to sleep diagonally to fit."
• Clippers over Lakers:
  • "I’m a Clippers guy...everyone already likes Lakers, you know, they don’t need another fan. So yeah, Clippers. I’m just two strikes down, Clippers fan, playing right handed. What’s going to be the third strike?" (43:29)

6. Laver Cup (“Best Week of My Life”) & Agassi

• Playing for Andre Agassi:
  • “That was one of the best weeks of my entire life, seeing him there...he was so...he wanted us to win so bad...you could see the matches, he was pretty tight, but like in a good way...just seeing him there, how can you not get inspired?” (49:11)

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Memorable Quotes

• On handling tennis pressure:

  "The guys in the top hundred play the pressure points unbelievable...they’re a lot more clutch."
  — Alex Michelsen (37:58)

• On late-bloomer status:

  "Trust me, I wasn’t that good as a junior."
  — Alex Michelsen (38:44)

• On lefty-righty dilemma:

  “If you switched me to left, I’m quitting tennis. Apparently, I said that.”
  — Alex Michelsen (41:11)

• On friendship with Lerner Tien:

  "We're definitely going like this since we were 12, just kind of going on top of each other...We love each other, but we definitely want to beat each other every time."
  — Alex Michelsen (44:39)

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Tennis Evolution: Ambidextrous Youngster Teo Davidov (53:21–56:58)

• Highlight: 15-year-old Teo Davidov—fully ambidextrous, hitting forehands on both sides and serving with both hands.
  • "The twist is he’s fully ambidextrous...hitting two forehands depending on what side." (53:36–54:01)
• Discussion: Is this sustainable at pro pace? Serving with both arms considered possibly game-changing.
  • "The serving thing is really interesting...imagine having a baseball player who could pitch equally well right handed, left handed. That is potentially game changing." (55:04)

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Closing Thoughts

• Return to Human Stakes: Hopes for safe evacuation of players/staff stranded in Dubai.
  • "Hopefully there's a way to get out sooner than later and tennis paradise awaits..." (57:02)
• Vibe on Alex Michelsen:
  • "He's great...doesn't seem like he's going to overcomplicate it...just love his whole vibe." (52:22–52:24)

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Useful Timestamps

• Taylor Townsend Clip: 06:03
• Medvedev Title Quirk: 11:01–11:38
• Dubai Crisis Breakdown: 16:56–24:20
• Alex Michelsen Interview Begins: 29:14
• Michelsen on College/Pro Crossover: 32:00, 33:01
• Michelsen on Lefty/Righty Switch: 41:11
• Laver Cup/Agassi: 49:11
• Ambidextrous Tennis Talk: 53:36–56:58

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Summary Takeaways

• Tennis culture reflects larger world unpredictability—from surprising breakthroughs to global crises, tennis mirrors life.
• Alex Michelsen embodies the new American “chill” on tour: self-aware, practical, rooted in family, and still climbing.
• Tour life’s hierarchy is more cutthroat and nuanced than it appears.
• Tennis’ next technical leap could be ambidextrous players—but execution at speed remains an open question.
• Don’t trust everything on the ATP website regarding player stats and bios (!)

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Tone: The episode is witty, candid, and insightful, with Andy Roddick’s self-effacing humor and openness setting the stage for honest discussions about pressures, oddities, and the humanity behind the headlines. Alex Michelsen brings an unfiltered, relatable view of what it’s like to be a rising American pro today.

Transcript

[Alex Mickelson]

Ugh.

[Depop Advertiser]

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[Alex Mickelson]

Hey, still got my hoodie?

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[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

As promised. What are you, 43 something in the world right now? Alex Mikkelsen is with us. Nobody ever says anything bad about you.

[Alex Mickelson]

It's actually really surprising or similar to this interview.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I'm just not asking the right questions. I don't know, I feel like you wanted to go to college and you like, you almost had to like play yourself out of going to college somehow.

[Alex Mickelson]

My dad's a lawyer. My mom was a teacher. They're very school oriented people and they really wanted me to go to school. And trust me, I didn't want to go to school. I wasn't the sharpest school in the shed, in the classroom, I remember I was 250 for three or four months and they're like, well, you're not making any money at 250, so I might as well go to school. I don't got too much money to my name. And then all of a sudden like I won a challenger and I finaled Newport and I was like 140. And then it was kind of a no brainer from there.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

So what goes into the decision to flip you away from a lefty? That seems like malpractice?

[Alex Mickelson]

It's actually a funny story. I started hitting backhands when I was three. And then when I was six, my parents were like, okay, you gotta hit a forehand eventually. And they tried to switch me because obviously I couldn't hit a forehand. Cause like my right side is awful apparently. I was like, no, I'm quitting tennis. If you switch me to left,

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

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[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Boop.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I feel like I add one every week. Yeah, it's pretty fun.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

And check out our newsletter.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

And check out our newsletter.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah. ServePodcast.com. you can sign up there.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah. Anything else? We should sell them before we actually say anything or I think we have

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

some new merch dropping soon.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

We do, yeah. Be sure to talk about that right off the top.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

We will.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah. Good. Producer Mike, who has already tried to sell you four things. Jw who might try to sell you something. Techie Sean in the house. And let's get to the racket rundown brought to you by Wilson while we're on a roll.

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Let's jump right into it.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

There we go. I'll sell you something too.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Cool story.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Peyton Stearns winning in. In Austin over Taylor Townsend. I love Taylor Townsend, but cool story. Go to a little university in Austin. Go win the tournament at Westwood. That's where I used to practice, where the venue is.

[Alex Mickelson]

That's where.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

All right, all right, all right.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Putting a lot of hours there. Yeah. Was he there? Of course he was there.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Of course he was there. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

He has to be. He's an institution. Absolute institution. She played great. That was fun. But it got me thinking, like, doesn't even just have to be tennis, although I do have the best tennis one. But like people going back and winning in a place where they went to school, their hometown. I know you're going to. You want. You're like itching to mention that Peyton Stearns, his hometown is what, Cincinnati? Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Okay.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, I'll save you. You don't, you don't have to go there. But anything come to mind, JW in tennis?

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Oh, man. Caught me off guard there. I. You know, there is an event in Basel, Switzerland that believe Roger Federer had a little success. That's actually a really good question. Someone was saying, you know, you're right, she played tennis there. Peyton Sternstead, let's also point out NCAA champion, I believe the same year Ben Shelton. Same year Ben Shelton won the. Won the Mets.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, it's. But also like to, to the larger point, Danielle Collins wins. She went like, if you're winning NCAA is now. It used to be you might make it or. And by make it, I mean like be top hundred again. We're just proving gravity at this point. But people that actually play college tennis now, it is the minor league system on earth, I think now. So props to Peyton Stearns. I mean, the. The best one in tennis is obviously Johnny Mac and Queensland. Oh, that's cool, right?

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Oh. Oh, that's good. I thought you were still. I was like, is there a tournament at Stanford?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I did.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Did someone check this while we have the Internet? If Naomi Osaka. I know she won the Pan Pacific. Is that in Osaka? If Naomi Osaka won Osaka. She's done better than any of this hometown stuff. She actually won her last name.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

She won her last name. That'd be a weird one for me. Big win. And Roddick. But you won.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

What about Andy Roddick?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Del Rey recounting that. I never won that. I couldn't do it. I couldn't get over the hump. I was choked. Like a Something that chokes.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah, she went. She won in Osaka in 2019.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

There you go. Nice pull there.

[Alex Mickelson]

You know, that's like, good job.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

I'd say that's a great. That's a great question, though. We don't think of tennis as having home court advantage, but. Yeah, McEnroe. McEnroe and Garrett. Yeah, McEnroe, Queens is at the US Open.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Is.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

That's perfect.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, that's. That's it. I think. Caboli, do you have anything else before we move out?

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Shout out. Taylor Townsend. You said that was the first time. That was a weird semifinals as a singles player.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

First time she had made a tour semifinal, which is crazy to me, because every time I watch Taylor play, I just think she's so good.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

But also played, you know, sing.

[Alex Mickelson]

You.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

You mentioned she played singles Saturday, double Saturday, singles Sunday, double Sunday, and then takes a flight, and she's playing Qualys in Indian Wells today, I think, which is Tuesday.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah, well, I think it'd be Monday.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, that's. I mean, listen, such is the life. That's a good problem to have.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah, right.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

You're like. That's so hard. It's like you can't really do anything else with the schedule if someone's not ranked high enough to get in.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I mean, there's only so much to be done.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

She seems to be playing with a little bit of a chip on her shoulder, which is. I want to play some sound for you. As our perfect delivery of her purse match.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

You still trying to make that go okay?

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Sean, can you play this?

[Taylor Townsend (clip)]

I'm creating a legacy for myself and, you know, doing it my way, like I said. And so, you know, honestly, everyone that's talk shit, they got to eat their words. So I'm still. I'm still standing. I'm still here. I'm not going anywhere.

[Alex Mickelson]

And.

[Taylor Townsend (clip)]

And it's only just going to keep getting better from here. So I hope that they buckle up.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

That's right. Don't talk shit about Taylor. She says. I like that.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

I like it. I like the big energy going into a bunch of American tournaments.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I think she, I mean nobody has really talked that much. Everyone has pretty much just only been cheering for her for a while now.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Figure out where the was.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

But it was 15 years ago and I can tell you who it was from and why it was happening. But everyone likes her now. Like she's still carrying that. She's kind of forcing a little bit like. But because everyone really likes her.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

She backed out of some tournaments recently to deal with a family thing and I think she caught a little bit of heat. Yeah, but you can go screw those people.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

You can go find heat anywhere on the Internet.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

That's true.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Like you shit, I'm sorry. You can go find it anywhere.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Let me ask you this. As long as we're here and yeah, I mean she didn't reference the specifics. I don't know if this was issue she had when she was 16 with the USTA. That's well trodden. I don't know if this is a, you know, some, some unfortunate, some regrettable pose she made in China that she took some heat for. But how much of this do you think? I don't even mean specific to Taylor. Did you play this game too of the nobody respects us, prove the doubters wrong, us against the world. I mean it's, it's total athlete narrative and I think it can be very effective. Did you ever use that?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, I don't know that it was. Yeah, I. Yeah, I mean I'm sure we all used it but you know, at a certain point it's tough to. Tougher to tougher to use. It's not like after being in two Wimbledon finals you can say no one thought I'd be here, you know, so it's that it, it, it kind of like, I don't know that I was pursuing it like Michael Jordan, like he could find it. I don't know that I pursued it that much. But I was surprised that she had never made a semi of a tour event before. I mean she's so good. I mean obviously she's great at doubles. But it was happy to see Taylor Townsend play well in singles. Pumped for Peyton Stearns to win in her. Adopted. You're gonna get mad if I say adopted. Hometown.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

I mean it's just her, like, college, hometown, because she's still from. Great story.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Where are you from?

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Cincinnati. Okay.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Caboli beats Tiafo in Mexico drama. Like, who's gonna play in that and who's not gonna play in that? I don't. I mean, this is just. It's kind of bananas, and we're gonna be lighthearted here at the. The front end of this. I do want to plug this before we get into, like, some kind of more serious stuff. In a couple of minutes, we have Alex Mickelson on an interview that we shot last week, which is very happy go lucky. And maybe not completely representative in tone of the stuff that's happened since then, but we're still gonna obviously play it because we were in here. We.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

We did it.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

We did it. But, Kaboli, I thought you said he. He br. He broke into what?

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Into the top 15. He cracks the top 15.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

He cracks the Top 15? Yeah, I asked. I asked Mike off air. JW is like, makes the top 10, cracks the top 15. Like, at what ranking are you not allowed to say cracks the top? Or is it. Or is it infinity?

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Don't you think it's hard to crack anything that ends in a five other than number five, right? We don't say you crack the top 35. It's funny, though, because don't you feel like the. The real number to crack, first of all, I think is. Is 32, where you get seated. We never talk about that. I guess you crack the top 20, top 10, top 5. I'm not sure you crack a top fiend. It's.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

It's like you crack the top chrysalis.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

You only can do it once. You only can do it once. You crack it once.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

You. So if he can't. Like, you can't recap. You can't recrack a crack.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Now he's returned to the 50k.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Lloyd. Lloyd. You can't triple stamp a double stamp. You can't triple.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

That's 100 baps.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

He's no erases. Yeah, Narrow joke. Excuse me, Kaboli. Top 15 in the world. Good. Good week for foe.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah, he looks great.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Won a couple. Won a couple of tight ones, you know, probably wasn't the most at ease down there, but. But play great now. Just needs to keep. Keep doing it. Similar what he. He told us when he was in here during the off season. Just needs to keep working at it. I mean, that's kind of. Kitchmanovich gets a couple big wins. Zverev makes semis, almost beats tfo. But good week. Glad they're out. Because that's obviously out of Mexico. The second most unstable place that a tour event's been played in the last week. Maybe. Yeah, Medi. So we'll stick to the tennis part first and have some fun with that before we get to the more serious part of it. My favorite. My favorite statistic in all of tennis is no more.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

I know.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

20. I know.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Sean, is there bagpipe sound effects?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't. We don't have chairs, but yeah, let us get the bagpipes real quick. Yeah. So he had won. For those of you who are wondering what we're talking about, welcome to the show. First time listener Mehdi wins. He had previously won 21 titles in 21 different cities. Never repeated in one city. 22 titles in 20. A lot of titles in a lot of cities. And I think this one was 22, wasn't it?

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Was it?

[Alex Mickelson]

I don't know.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

I GUESS it was 23.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

We're professionals. Yeah. Like I said, 23 titles.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

It was 22.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

A lot. It was 22.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

22 titles in 22 cities. Now this is 23.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Got it. Now that everyone's confused. First time he had ever won a tournament again in the same city gets a walk over from Talon Greeksport. But I'll tell you this, though, like, prime Medi. And I say prime just meaning like when he was playing the best he ever had, probably like three or four years ago, like post, I actually think he won the US Open. But then that next year he was playing great. Like, I remember him watching him in like that Canada Cincinnati run where guys weren't really winning games. His scorelines this week, fellows, in the last two years of Medi has been like winning six, four in the fifth. Winning. It's been a lot of drama, right? Not only because of his personality and the fact that he likes to create it sometimes, which is. I think it's entertaining. Some people won't think that and they will let us know. One in three. First round against Shang, two and three. Second round against Stan the man. Two and one against Brooksby, and four and two against an inform. Faa. Like first time in a while that he's put down like he's just been like beat downs. And then obviously gets in the most Medi way ever to break the straight. Gets a walkover. Yeah, from. From Greeksport. He had a great week.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

He actually talked about in the. That he felt really great at the beginning of the week. You know, there's a comment in one of the articles about it that him and his coach just knew it was going to be a great week because he just was feeling it.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

It's fast.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I mean, the ball flies through the air. Lighter air, the ball gets through the court. But yeah, he played, I thought he played great start to finish, which is something that we haven't seen a ton of him the last maybe two years.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

He lost four straight matches in majors last year. So this, this is a nice recovery. And I also think we, we all had fun with this stat. Right. And how crazy is it? He's, he's never let alone defended a title. He's never even won it a second time. First of all, 22 and now 23, that's a big number. I mean, you, you mentioned Stan, who he beat.

[Taylor Townsend (clip)]

I don't.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Stan hasn't won 23 titles. I mean, that's, I think we all, we all kind of crack up about the statistical quirk and maybe I'll ask you what your next favorite tennis stat is now that this one died, but I think lost in that. I think he's right around $50 million now. Maybe he went over it, depending on like value of the dollar. But 23 titles, including a major and all different surfaces. He's 30 years old. This is a really, I mean, never mind this. All hall of Fame is. That's in the rearview mirror. This is a really elite career. 23 is a big number of titles, especially if he's going to have this diversity it's surfaces conditions. 250s, but also majors lost in this stat is really an A list career. So good. Good on Medi. Give a next favorite tennis stat.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Now that hall of Fame's a lock for many.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah. You said hall of Fame's a lock.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Oh, yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I mean, based on Preston of who's gotten in. I mean, he's, he's been number one in the world. He's, he's won US Open. He, I mean, the, the volume stats are a joke. The total career match wins are, are crazy. He did it in almost like the transitional era between Fed, Rafa, you know, Novak and you know, the new, the new Avengers, for context. Like, I think Jim courier won around 20, something like low 20s, I think. I think it's probably more than like Rafter. It's probably, it's definitely more than like Saffin. It's probably more than Ferrero. It's probably more than like he's running up a title count. You know, I don't, I think he can probably lay claim to, I mean, Hewitt won 30. We're right around each other like the same 30 something Chang 130 something. Like those are, that's. Those are people who won a lot of tournaments. I was right. 32 or.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

You know, so I mean this is a big career, you know. Is he ever going to be the dominant week in week force week in week out force that like an alcarazzer sinner. No, but no doubt hall of famer. Like if in the fact that like people are like oh really? Yes.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Guy.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

What A guy cannot stand clay. He hates it. Go and fucking roam on clay. And wet. It was gross that week. It was wet. Disgusting conditions. Like yeah, absolutely. 100% like don't even. I vote now in. You got one. You're in.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

50 million in prize money too. Is is something as well.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

But wait, you, you do.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

I. I don't have one handy. But you, you gotta, you got a next favorite quirky tennis stat.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Gosh, I gotta think about that one. Maybe I'll come back and plug it back in. I'll give you one.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

I'll give you one. That always.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

The Osaka one got ruined where she. Every time she had made it past the round of 16 of A major, she had won the major and that was finished last year with the US Open also that came to mind.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

But it's well Osaka. What about Osaka? Seven titles for the majors plus Indian Wells. When when you when more than 50, I was like remember Garbinha Mugarus? Of course I don't have in front of me. But she, she won like 10 titles. Eight of them were on hard courts and the two that weren't were Roland Garros and Wimbledon.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I like that one. That was pretty good. That's good. And then Mike get us to many wins. Everyone's happy. And now he is living in the basement of a hotel in Dubai because their world quite literally exploded.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah, along with some 40, 40 other ATP players, staff members, personnel, coaches. And so currently they're all apparently hunkered down in place in a hotel that was provided by the ATP that has been fortified and they're being protected as best. Our understanding is they are currently stuck in Dubai, unable to leave airspaces shut down.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

They've been bombing the airport in Dubai.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

So Iran has in response to the US and Israel.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yes, correct. So starting so Sunday, Sunday, while he was doing his trophy ceremony, while the doubles was going on, you know there's missiles flying overhead during the doubles. Like that's what people are saying that basically it was during the doubles match a lot of these attacks were beginning ATP has issued a statement recently saying the ATP is closely monitoring the evolving situation in the Middle east, remains in regular contact with our players, their support teams and relevant local authorities. The health and safety and well being of our players, staff and tournament personnel is our priority. We can confirm that a small number of players and team members remain in Dubai following the conclusion of the recent ATP 500 event. They and their teams are being a accommodated in tournaments official hotels where their immediate needs are being fully supported. We are in direct communication with those affected and we continue to assess and develop and provide updates as appropriate. The full. The full comment is on our feed and in the newsletter. Mehdi was reached out to by a Russian publication which he went on to say. As strange as it sounds, on the court I'm very emotional, but in real life it might actually help for me to be more emotional at times. So for me everything is normal. Naturally, I've received a lot of messages from friends and family and everyone is worried, but I can say for my part that everything is fine. The stranded players include Medi, Andre Rublev, Griggs Poor, several of the doubles players and then Marca, was it? It was today, right. Today on Monday they published a Marcus, a Spanish publication. They published a report saying that Medvedev and Andre Rublev have already devised a quote, escape plan. This would take them by car to Amman where a private plane awaits to transport them Tuesday morning out of the conflict zone. The article went on to continue saying the rest of the remaining players, along with their families, coaches, ATP supervisors, umpires and others, more than 40 people in total are awaiting an evacuation plan aimed at reaching Istanbul or possibly Riyadh.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, I mean, so it's all developing. Yeah. Monday we do need to say like the ATP saying they're monitoring this. There's, there's like, these are people who run a tennis tour. Like anyone who's like, well, how are they going to get him out? I'm like, fuck, how are we going to get anyone out? Like, it's not, I mean it's, that's a huge ask. Anyone who's critical of the ATP in this scenario is like, what are we doing? Like, they don't have an extraction team. Like the only thing, like, but also my, my mind went to like, like a small number of people and then you were like, 40. I'm like, what would a big number of people be? Yeah, 40 is a lot of people.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

It's a lot of people.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean they, they've. I mean there are other Players that are players, former players that base themselves out of Dubai that I know are there also. I mean, it just has to be kind of strange. I mean, two global conflicts in two weeks. Mexico, you know, there were all these warnings for the players there, the US Players there, and then Dubai also. I don't know. I mean, we're. We're not above earth.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

I mean, Holger. Holgers in Qatar. Holger Run is in Qatar right now rehabbing. So he was posting videos of missiles falling out of the sky and being scared.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

God, man.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Did you guys read the Helio Vara, the doubles player who's one of the players that stranded? I. I don't mean we're. We're on Monday, I think. I think I'm actually in Europe and I saw all. All the Dubai flights here are still cancelled. It did look like the airport was reopened.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

But you.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

But you said it, Andy. Wasn't just a Dubai.

[Alex Mickelson]

The.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

The airport was the target. Yeah. So I don't. I don't know how you start running Emirates flights in and out. I mean, it's interesting, too, because Dubai was always sort of marketed as, listen, this is going to be the safe spot. This is going to be the Monte Carlo of the Middle east. And come here and shop and there's entertainment, restaurants, and we're sort of free of this powder keg of geopolitics. I don't. You know, Iran bombing Dubai is not something, I think 72 hours ago any of us thought of. But Heliovar, the doubles players, was saying you could get to Oman, to Muscat, but he didn't know there was traffic jams at the border and they wouldn't let you cross on foot. And then apparently there was an idea to drive to Riyadh, but that's like 11 hours. I mean, this is probably more. I'm curious, did you have any of these. You know, tennis is a global sport and geopolitics is what it is. Did you have any in your career, any of these instances where geopolitics threw a wrench into things?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Not anything other than my stance on something where I would have, like, taken myself out of something I disagreed with, which I. Which I had done, but nothing to where it was like I couldn't move beyond for my own safety. You know, we had, like, hotel fires and I didn't go to places sometimes, but it was because I had a stance that not everyone disagreed with. So I would not go to places based on the tournament letting in certain players and not other players. But Nothing that I can remember

[Alex Mickelson]

where

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

it's like we're sheltering in. In place because of war or. Or burgeoning war, you know, bombs being dropped in the city. No, no, not that I can think. I mean, I'm pretty sure that was. Would be something that I would. I would remember. But also it's like, it's the. It's just that constant thing. It's like Brooke and I were talking this morning before I came to studio. It's like for some reason, and I'm curious to hear you guys thoughts on this and everyone feel free to pitch in. But for some reason it's like we read it and there's like this disassociation between like, you know, what's going on and you have empathy and then all of a sudden it's people you know and follow and you're like, oh my gosh. Like it hits harder when, when there's like a, like one degree of separation as opposed to a nameless, faceless thing. And if there's anything I encourage our audience to do, and it doesn't even just have to be for this conflict. It's when you hear something and read something and before your knee jerk is to defend, just pretend like you know the people and see if that affects the way that you take in information. I feel like we've largely. There's like we've largely lost that. Not everyone. So don't just, just save it. But like pretend like you know the person or follow the person or are a fan of the person. And for some reason human nature makes that hit harder for us.

[Alex Mickelson]

Right.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Like we know what's going on. And it's like the least important part of any global conflict is millionaire tennis players that are slightly uncomfortable and have to drive.

[Alex Mickelson]

Right.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

And not to. Not to make small what they're going through, but in comparison to most people. That most people can't clear the border and get on a jet.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

And leave is my point. I'm happy for them.

[Alex Mickelson]

I.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Big fan of Rublev. I. I love Medi. Now my focus is on the 40 people that are. Are there. Right. With. With no real escape plan to a private jet.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

I agree. Right. I mean, these are all. These are all somebody's son, somebody's dad, somebody's mother, somebody's best friend. I mean, and not just those 40 people, but all the people involved right now in that region.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah.

[Alex Mickelson]

You know, and many and.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

And many other regions around Earth. Not just like we're. We're paying attention to this because it's in front of us. But I mean, Medi and Andre from Russia, like, this is, this is not the craziest thing they've, they've seen.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

No.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Right. So anyways, just, just when you're having a knee jerk reaction and you're talking to other humans, just pretend like, you know, the people. And maybe, maybe it'll hit a little bit different as, as it should. Maybe, maybe it'll hit the way it should hit, in my opinion.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

No, I mean, I, I, I think that's a really good point. I mean, I think I, I was going to have a slight corollary to that, which is we can talk about players being stranded and uncomfortable situations and people. You think that's bad? I mean, there are people losing their lives. And I think, yes, that is true. But you know what? It's not an Olympics of trauma here. Like you're allowed to say, I feel bad for Medvedev, even if he's not a soldier on the front lines. But yeah, I mean, I think it's just, Tennis is a global sport, right? You don't have these issues when you're going from Kansas City to the ballpark in Arlington and, and even from Manchester to Liverpool. Tennis is a global sport. It's one of the real virtues. But I think tennis is probably particularly susceptible, whether it's Russia, Ukraine, whether it's China issues. It's all part of the bargain when you're a global business, basically. But yeah, I mean, a week ago we were talking about, what was the guy's name? El Mencho. And that seems like ancient history because now it's much more widespread and serious. But I do, you know, I think we're allowed to talk about can Mehdi get to Indian Wells safely? And it doesn't mean we're discounting the fact that people are losing lives here.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

No, I mean, if anything, we're, hopefully, if you listen to the show enough, we don't discount anything like that ever. I think we have to control ourselves from diving into those topics further.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

And I think from a tennis perspective, the draw comes out on Monday night. It'll come out tonight after we're done taping these guys. Are these, all these players are still going to be in the draw, so I think we'll have to see where that goes. I think both Rublev and Medi were scheduled to play in the Eisenhower cup, the mixed doubles event. I don't think they'll make.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I mean, there's a world where once they clear the border, like, their first stop isn't Indian Wells.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

That's, that's, that's what I'm saying.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Can I just, just, I mean, just to have it on the. I communicated with the ATP yesterday and if the players do not get to Indian Wells, whether it's by choice or by circumstance, they will not get a zero. So if, I mean, you're, you're right to say that. What, what can the ATP do? But I mean, at least they've sort of made this outreach that just take, take care of yourselves and your mental health and your physical health before you start chasing ranking points and mandatory requirements.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, I mean, listen, it's, it's, it's, it's things like this where we have to cover the tennis piece of it, but it's something that's part of something that's way bigger and way more tragic for, for a lot of people, you know, but I hope everyone, not just the tennis people, but you know, they're probably the only ones that are listening to this. I hope you find safety. All the staff, all the ATB tour supervisors, officials, Mehdi Rubles, Heliovara, Pat and all those guys, hope everyone is safe. On the other side, a little bit of levity, an interview that we shot last week with Alex Mickelson, who is just like, he's like the ultimate SoCal kid, man.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

He did it from his childhood bedroom.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

It was hilarious. I asked, you'll hear earlier in the thing, but it was like he looked, I, I expected like Will Ferrell to jump out and like touch his drum set or something. Like it literally looked like, looked like a 12 year old's room. It was, it was pretty funny, but. Do you like guacamole? Yeah. Did we just become best friends?

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yep.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

We'll see you after the break. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built on. With the ServiceNow AI platform, your AI data and workflows all work together, connecting every corner of your business. To see how you can put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com AI agents. All right, welcome back to Served and as promised, current. I don't know, what are you, 43 some in the world right now? Alex Mickelson is with us getting ready for his, I want to say hometown tournament, but home area tournament. I'm assuming Indian Wells is the tournament that you probably went to a Bunch as a spectator 1. Welcome to Served. And how you feeling going into Indian Wells?

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah, thank you, sir. Thanks for having me. And I'm feeling, feeling pretty good. I've been playing some, some decent ball last couple. Last couple of months. I feel like I lost a couple tough matches, but still feel like I'm playing good and ready to go to my home tournament. Two hour drive, so. But it's better than, you know, nothing else is closer. So.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

God, how good is it to get in a car to go to a tournament as opposed to like get on a plane?

[Alex Mickelson]

Unbelievable feeling. I'm so pumped I can drive my own car. Like, I'm so pumped.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Are you in your like childhood room right now? Where are you?

[Alex Mickelson]

Yes, yes, I'm in my childhood. I see like, I got a poster of like Rotha right here. I got like a bunch of. Yeah, this is my childhood room. I grew up in here. And yeah, I'm just home before New Wells because, yeah, I have a place in Florida. But I feel like if we like, I love this room.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I feel like if we panned right, we would see like the, like the bunk beds from stepbrothers, you know.

[Alex Mickelson]

Like, uh, no, but my bed's pretty small. I'm not gonna lie. I have to like sleep, have to like, I have to sleep diagonally to fit. So.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

That's pretty funny.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Those beds weren't designed for six, four children.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, so you mentioned you, you mentioned you mentioned you've been playing good ball. I think it's 6 and 5 on the year. I feel like I was looking through your results before it came on and I feel like you're losing to people that are like winning tournaments or putting up good results. Right. It's not as if you're losing to someone who then goes and loses to three people in a row or something.

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah, no, I'm losing, I'm losing some guys that are playing well. I've lost the two guys this year that have won the tournament, Mad and Corda.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah.

[Alex Mickelson]

And then I lost a catching up in Australia. Tough five setter.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

That's a rough.

[Alex Mickelson]

I. Yeah, I was a tough job, but I feel like, yeah, that one could have gone either way, but he's got a little more experience than I do. And yeah, I lost a Fokina last week. I've lost some guys that, you know, they know what they're doing. So it's. Yeah, it's good though. It's good. I'm getting like to play, you know, some high level guys like that and just more experience under the belt. So yeah, you know, it's, it's gonna go, it's gonna go eventually. So I'm not worried.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

It will. I mean all you can do is put yourself in position. That's that's totally right. So one of the things I think is interesting about kind of the way that we were introduced to you or the way that you got to tour was there used to be kind of this precedent and now college is like a superpower. So it's not the same. It's like, you go to college and it's like basically like a minor league system and guys come out of college ready to play now. But like, it was weird for me to see kind of your process because back in the day you'd have some. You'd have some chucker that like won two matches at NCAS and then turned pro. And like, you were like, where the fuck is this guy from? And you were like, you were, you were almost like the opposite. Like, I feel like you were borderline top hundred before you actually decided to go pro. Right. I feel like you wanted to go to college and you like, you almost had to play. You almost had to like play yourself out of going to college somehow.

[Alex Mickelson]

My parents really wanted me to go to school. My dad's a lawyer, my mom is a teacher. They're very school oriented people and they, they really wanted me to go to school. And I was like, I remember I was 250 for like three or four months and like, well. And they're like, well, you're not making any money at 250, so I might as well go to school. I was like, yeah, I mean, you're right. I don't got too much money to my name. And then all of a sudden, like, I want a challenger. And I finaled Newport and I was like 140. And then it was kind of no brainer from there. But yeah, I. Trust me, I didn't want to go to school. I wasn't the sharpest, sharpest tool in the shed in the classroom. So, yeah, I'm happy to be playing some ball.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, Sean, Mike and I weren't either. So we can, we can totally, totally, totally relate to that. Was that like a sudden thing? Because, like, I remember the Newport thing and it like you make quarters and then you beat Isner, I think, in the semis. And I was kind of like sitting here, I'm like, this is getting weird. Like, it's kind of getting to the point where like, did you feel chatter around it? Did you feel outside pressure? Was it pretty insular? Was that or was the only conversation that mattered, the one that inside of that room that you're in right now?

[Alex Mickelson]

Well, yeah, I think I definitely heard it because I won the challenge of the week before, and I was like, top 200. And then people were starting to chat a little bit, but I still felt like I was pretty under the radar. And like, I. I was just telling myself, it's all poison. Like, don't listen to it. And I, you know, just kind of took it one match at a time. And I got pretty lucky. I got out of a crazy first round in Newport and like, I don't know. But after I won Chicago, I was top 200. I was like, okay, well, worst case, I'm just open queues, like, am I really going to go to school? So I kind of, like, alleviated the pressure from myself after I won Chicago, if that makes sense. I didn't. I wasn't thinking about it too much. And I was like, when I finally Newport, I was just, like, having fun. That's probably the most fun I've ever had. I was like, by myself. That week is a good time. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Was it strange that you kind of had success before you had kind of committed to it being a profession like some people? I'm just fascinated by journeys. Like, some people will play, play, play, play. And then Vachero wins Shanghai, right? And he was 200 in the world forever. Were you surprised by how quickly you were getting professional wins when you first started kind of dabbling in pro tennis?

[Alex Mickelson]

For sure, yeah. It all happened super quick. Like, I never really thought I was going to be a pro. Like, growing up, it wasn't a thing. Like, I was just trying to go to school and like, get a scholarship, and I always kind of knew I was good enough for that. But once COVET hit in 2020, I just started, like, training my ass off, like, training all the time. And, like, because Tess is like, one of the only sports that we could play because, you know, you're not. Yeah, that's not contact. So I was just grinding and I. I just started. I would homeschooled my. Started my junior year of high school, and I just started grinding, grinding, grinding, and it just kind of like, happened really fast. And like, it was like, okay, your juniors, like, okay, now you play Futures. And okay, now you're ranked here, so you got to play challengers. And it just, like, just kept happening. And all of a sudden I was like, 140. I was like, oh, okay, now this is my life. So it's. Yeah, but I'm not complaining. So, yeah, it was just. It was really quick.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, you SoCal guys, man, like, I remember Sam Query, like, back in the day, I would. I would use him as like, a practice partner. And I was like. I was like, what do you think? And he's like, I don't know. I was like, you gonna go pro? He's like, I don't know. I play pretty good. Like, you SoCal guys are like, a different breed.

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah, I think it's, like, a little more chill here. We're a lot more laid back here in Cali. I think that's what it is.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Explain to our listeners like, juniors and kind of. I don't want to call it hobby tennis, but, like, you're 15, you're playing tournaments. Explain the difference, you know, for the people at home. Juniors, challengers, and then to the pro tour, because, you know, you can shoot to, you know, like, you did 130, but then shit gets real when you start getting to 60, 50, 40. Every person that you're playing is also a phenom. Right? Like, you know, it goes. Can you just talk about kind of the levels and kind of your experience with kind of walking up the ladder?

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah, I mean, there's. There's a lot of levels of tennis, that's for sure. And, like, you know, I'm 14, 15. Just, like, parents are driving me to all the junior tournaments around here. Just kind of. I mean, we're definitely taking it very seriously, but, you know, not thinking anything would happen. And then, like, you get to, like, the Junior Slams, right? That's a whole different thing from, like, juniors and you got the Junior Slams, and, like, then it becomes a little more serious. And everyone's trying very hard, you know, traveling from long ways and. But still not super professional. And then you get to the Futures, and, like, the guys are even better. And you're playing for, like, a McDonald's gift card if you win the tournament. And these guys are just, like, trying to, like, claw your throat, and, like, that's when it kind of gets real. Everyone's just. I feel like it's like a cat just clawing at you. You know, that's what it is in the futures and challengers. And, like, everyone's really good. Everyone's trying to, you know, survive. And then you get on the tour, and you're like, okay, all these guys, like, are even better. And they're all. They all know how to beat me. And, like, it's just. It's just different. I don't know. It's really tough to explain. It's just. They just. The level just gets higher and higher. Like, everything, like, physically, mentally, tennis wise, like, it all gets higher and higher, and it's definitely tough to navigate. I've, you know, had a bunch of tough stretches already in my career. Like in the challengers, I lost a lot. And then like, once I turned pro, like, I had a couple of months where I couldn't win matches. And then once I was top hundred, like I went to Europe for the first time, couldn't win match. It was like, it's, you know, it's hard and there's a lot of levels, a lot of stuff to get used to for sure.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Talk through, talk through the balls and strikes of like, let's say an average tour player. Right. I look at it, you know, but I also don't never want to be the guy who talks about tennis, you know, who's 15 years out of it and pretends like he knows it. But like, from the outside looking in, it seems like the air count gets cut by like 70%. Right. In juniors, you can, like, people would just miss like randomly and it feels like.

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

It feels like movement is like a non negotiable. Everyone can just move their ass off and it's tough to exploit. In your opinion, what are like the biggest, you know, not the mental, not the hunger, not the kind of playing for a hamburger, but like the physical non negotiables for being like a tour player.

[Alex Mickelson]

I think for me, that's an easy one. I think they play the pressure point. Like the guys in the top hundred play the pressure points. Unbelievable compared to the guys that aren't top hundred. I feel like every time I'm playing a guy that's really good and I have a break point, they're making a first serve, you know, like 80% of the time. Like, I feel like the guys, that, they're a lot more clutch. I mean, you have to do a ton of winning to get top hundred, right? But I feel the pressure points, the guys are really, really good. That's, that's, that's my feeling.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Explain the mental stress of like, you probably grew up winning everything. It's like you show up and you're in the semis and. Is that not true?

[Alex Mickelson]

No, no. I was very average junior before COVID I was like 30 in my class. Tennis recruiting, like maybe ranked like top 20 in SoCal. I wasn't great. Like, I wouldn't just like rock up the tournaments and win everything.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Are all the guys who were better than you like 4 years ago super pissed then?

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah, I actually, I have a bunch of friends. My friend group, like, their record on me is like four and oh, five and oh, they Would shot me. And like, they're all like, they're like, they're like, man, you suck. How are you? Like, how are you 40 in the world? Like, what are you doing? He's like, what am I doing? Like, why am I so bad now? But, yeah, I lost a lot of matches. Trust me, I wasn't that good as a junior.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Interesting. You struck me. You strike me as a guy who, like, it's pretty pure off the backhand side. Like, your tennis IQ is like, you were making finals of tour events before you knew that this was going to be a job. Like, it was. It. What was the. I guess what was the big. I understand training and like, actually trying to during COVID but, like, what were the things that you still did well when you were like, 12?

[Alex Mickelson]

My backhand was sick. My back end's always been really good. But, like, my serve and forehand were horrendous. Like, I would double fall like 20 times a match. Like, like, I. I would, I would. I couldn't put a ball on the court on, like, my forehand side because I'm left hand dominant and I'm playing right handed. Like, you know, because I'm really smart. So, you know, it's.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

And humble.

[Alex Mickelson]

It's. Yeah, well. Yeah, well, I think if I played. If I played lefty, I think that would have been smarter. But I played baseball when I was younger, so that's why it's kind of similar to the backhand.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

And the lefty righty thing is interesting to me because, like, you people that have like this weird lefty righty thing, like, fish, great backhand, plays golf left handed, right. Rafa, great backhand, plays golf right handed. You know, you're a natural lefty. You have. There's something. There's something there. And then my dear friend and mentor Jim Currier ruins everything because his back end was as bad as mine, but he plays golf ready. But, like, what. What goes into, like, your parents played college tennis, so what goes into the decision to. To flip you away from. From. From a lefty? That seems like malpractice.

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah. Well, so it's actually a funny story. My. I was ready until I was like, I started hitting backhands when I was 3, and then when I was 6, my parents, like, okay, you got to hit a forehand eventually. And they tried to switch me because obviously I couldn't hit a forehand because, like, my right side is, like, awful. And. And then I was like, apparently I was like, no, I'm quitting tennis. If you switched Me left. Yeah, I'm quitting tennis. Apparently I said that and my brother had just quit tennis. I have an older brother. He had just quit tennis, apparently. So they're like, okay, we'll leave it. And, you know, he never, never changed it. Um. But, yeah, they definitely tried, though. They definitely tried, but it was. It was all my fault. I choked. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

So since. Since they played, was it just a natural thing where, like, do you remember, like, do you ever remember not having tennis?

[Alex Mickelson]

No, I. I remember. I. Apparently, this is what I've been told. I started hitting back ends against the garage when I was three years old. And, you know, they knew if, like, you know, you got to start young if you want to be good in tennis. You can't, like, just rock up and start at 10 because, like, it's really. I mean, didn't bend do it, though. It's like, really hard to do, though. But, yeah, they. They. I hit with my parents, like, every day of the week till I was like 15. Like, I. I didn't spend too much money on tennis. Just as good. I always just had them and, like, it would hit with my mom. I hit with my mom all the time, just grinding, grinding, grinding. And she's like, still. She's like, still a machine. Like, my parents are playing tennis right now. They love it. They love it. They're out grinding right now and it's 8 in the morning, so, like, so good. Yeah, it's. That was, that was kind of my upbringing, just a lot of tennis. I played baseball and soccer as well, but tennis is way better.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Do we believe Ben when he says, I didn't play Till I was 10, his dad made the fourth round of Wimbledon. Do I. Are we calling bullshit on that?

[Alex Mickelson]

I think maybe he didn't start taking it, like, seriously until. And he definitely picked up a racket before then. Right, of course.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

That's. That's.

[Alex Mickelson]

That's.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I feel like that story just keeps getting better each time it's told.

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah, I think.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

I think.

[Alex Mickelson]

I think you're right. I'll ask.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Please do. Yeah. Report back live from Indian Wells special reporter Alex Mickelson. So I was reading some stuff off court. Is it going to really piss you off when the Hornets are better than the Lakers very soon?

[Alex Mickelson]

I'm actually a Clippers guy, so I don't really want to talk.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Oh, that's bad info. My producers.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

That's ATP website.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Oh, that's cool. So we're already better.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Oh, even better. That's great.

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The h. Yeah, the HP website all says I'm 175s and I weigh like 200 now. So I don't know.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Good. So wait, a good.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

You are 21 years old, right?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Good research. Yeah. Are you, are you 40?

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

There we go. We got it right? Did we play?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Are we.

[Alex Mickelson]

I'd be a, I'd be a Damn good looking 40 year old though.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Good looking 21 year old if I may say so.

[Alex Mickelson]

Thank you. Appreciate that.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

So wait, so. Okay, I'm a little frustrated with you right now if I'm being honest. So you're in, you know, the LA area and you choose the Clippers and you choose the Clippers over the Lakers and then you're a left hander and you choose right handed over left handed. Are you going to make any more bad decisions like in the upcoming months?

[Alex Mickelson]

Probably, yeah, probably. Safe to say. But the reason, the reason I'm a Clippers fans because you know, you know Rocket, Rocket you just saw. Yeah, he, yeah, he, he's very good friends with the Clippers team doctor and we get like pretty good tickets for actually going to a game on Thursday. And like the Intimate dome is like the coolest sports stadium I've ever seen. And yeah, I don't know, like everyone already likes Lakers, you know, they don't need another fan. And me, you know, everyone already loves them. So. Yeah, I think Clippers. Yeah, I'm just two strikes down, Clippers fan, playing right handed. What's. What's going to be the third strike? I don't know.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I.

[Alex Mickelson]

It's going to be something bad.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I love the storyline with. And I'm going to ask this, I'm trying to ask this the right way, but like I grew up like Marty. We went to high school together. There's like this. We relate so much to each other because all of our progressions happened in lockstep, right. It was like 14, I was good, he sucked. Then 16, he was good, I sucked. And then like. But all of our little kind of moments happened as we were like close friends. It seems like you and Lerner kind of have that thing, people. Is it a world where you guys are actually that close or is that story kind of exaggerated?

[Alex Mickelson]

No, we're pretty close. We've done a lot of training together. Like when he was 12, 14, he was miles better than me. And then as I got a little older, he beat me in the finals of SoCal sectionals. I was 17, he was 16, he beat me there. And then after that, like I, you know, I'm a Little older, so I kind of got a little better and I got a little stronger and I start playing on the tour and then he started to catch up and now he's definitely playing some better ball. I mean, we're definitely been going like this since we were like, you know, since we were 12. Just kind of going on top of each other, so. And we definitely, like, we love each other, but we definitely want to beat each other every time we go out there. Like we played four times already on the tour and like, you know, every time we go out there, like, we love each other, but yeah, we definitely want to win. Especially me. I love.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Should I ask you what the hell. Should I ask you what the head to head is just so you can give him some shit right now? Because I know what it is.

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah, I'm a 3:1, baby. Well, and also the next gen, like,

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

well, the eight you'll be, you'll be happy to know this and maybe you can give him shit because. Well, I don't know that the ATP tour website is much of a reference after the disaster of information that we've gotten from it, but they actually have you three. Oh, because did you play the wonky scoring at next gen finals?

[Alex Mickelson]

Yes. Yes.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Might not officially count. Just saying. Okay, I think there's an argument to be had. 3 oh, 3 it does.

[Alex Mickelson]

Okay, daddy, status.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah.

[Alex Mickelson]

Take what I can get.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

You should immediately sign off and take a screenshot and just see what the. See what the reaction is. Walk us through. Because I know that like if Marty had a result and like beat a pro, even in the exhibition, I remember he beat like, I don't know if it was like Cecil Mammon or something that was like 80 in the world. And I'm like, holy shit, Marty, you can beat people that are 80 in the world. Have you guys talked about, like, do you guys take confidence from seeing each other level up kind of over this, this, this run?

[Alex Mickelson]

For sure, for sure. I mean, he. What I found on my first challenger, we were talking about like not that long ago. He was like, man, like, you find your.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I.

[Alex Mickelson]

He was like, tell me. He's like, I was thinking like, man, you finaled your first challenger. Like, how the hell did you do that? Like, these guys are unreal, you know? And then like, you kind of just level up. And I'm like, now I'm sitting there, I'm like, dude, you quartered Ozzy. Like, what is wrong with you? You're so good at tennis. Like, you know, it's like, it's kind of like. And we've been doing that, like, the whole way, so. And like, when I made third round, Ozzy, he was like, dude, you're so good. And now it's like, yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty cool. Like, you know, we're in contact a lot. We, you know, stuff like that. It's. It's. It's really cool. Yeah. And I'm like, dude, I'm like, ask him. Like, how do you beat Mevidev? I'm like, I don't know how you do it. Like, the guy dices me every time. Like. But I dice you, but then you dice him. So it's kind of like a. I don't know how. I don't know how it works.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, those.

[Alex Mickelson]

Tennis is all about matchups, correct?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah. The matchups are never, like, A lot of stuff will always change in tennis. It gets bigger, stronger, faster. Matchups at a certain level dictate a lot of it. I mean, obviously, like, a bad matchup for Alcarazzi still wins, like, 95% of the time, but, like, matchups are so big.

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah. When you're. Carlos, I don't know if there is a bad matchup. That's the thing.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah. Geez, that's probably. That's probably right. Talk about a little bit, because we're going in. When this airs, we will be going into Indian Wells. I had, like, I had been to the US Open when I was a kid, and then going back there is Indian Wells. Does that hold, like, a special place? Just because I assume that was probably a yearly place for you to go if you grew up watching. You didn't go there.

[Alex Mickelson]

I went once when I was, like, eight. Dude.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I just. This is maybe the biggest fail of an interview I've ever had as far as information. In my guessing, I've gotten everything wrong.

[Alex Mickelson]

Well, I was always playing tournaments. Like, I was always. During that time. There's always. There's always other tournaments going on around here. So I remember going once. I watched Isner play Almagro, and I was like, these guys are a joke. I'm never being a pro. Like, there's no way. I remember having, like, those frozen lemonades that are super good, but I only went once. Yeah, I remember. Yeah, I was always grinding tournaments.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Well, the good news is, is any press you do from here on out, you're going to have someone that's actually good at their job. So there should be. There should be a lot of upside.

[Alex Mickelson]

Well, you're the guinea pig. You didn't know I mean, nobody really knows.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Here we are. Now we know.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

This is breaking news.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Breaking news. He's been a Laker. He's been a Clippers fan since he was two years. Yeah, we're. We're good. We're so good at our job. Last thing I want to ask you about is you played labor cup this year. You played for my idol, my friend, mentor, Andre Agassi. How was that? How was. Like, he walks in the team room and the feeling is what.

[Alex Mickelson]

I mean, that was one of the best weeks of my entire life, seeing him there. Like, I mean, and the amount. It's just the big thing for me was, like, the amount of energy. Energy and, like, how much he, like, wanted us to win. He wanted us to win so bad. And, like, he was so. Like, you could see the matches. Like, he was pretty tight, but, like, in a good way, you know, and he would just bring so much energy. And, you know, I was. I came out tight as a rope, and he really helped me out that match. I remember. But, yeah, I mean, just seeing him there, how can you not get inspired? And you got Agassi and then you got Rafter over there as well, and it's. It's super hard not to get inspired. And I was lucky enough to play four different matches, and in the atmosphere, it was, like, full every day. And, you know, I had a blast. I only won one match out of four, but I still had. I still had a lot of fun.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

W. Still got that. Still still got the W. Yeah, I got one.

[Alex Mickelson]

That was the match the demon. Demon, like, got his ear cut in half.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

The. The Tyrese Halliburton Olympics tweet. Do you remember that one?

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

No.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

So you actually won a match, so it's like you contributed way more than Halliburton. But he didn't play a minute in the entire Olympics. And then what did he say about. He was holding his gold medal? He said. He said when you didn't. When you didn't do anything on the group project, but you got an A. Yeah, I thought that was clean.

[Alex Mickelson]

Yeah. That was Riley. That was Riley. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Riley. Yes. Shots fired. I love it. Alex, man, thanks for coming on. I'm a big fan of you. We got to say hello and mess around. One night at the US Open last year, you just blast the. Kind of behind the scenes. I'm always texting people and nobody ever says anything bad about you. Everyone really likes you.

[Alex Mickelson]

I think that's actually really surprising.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Or I just don't have the right. Or I'm or similar to this interview. I'm just not asking the right questions. I don't know. All the continued success, man. We're always cheering for you. Come back on anytime. Good luck at Indian Wells.

[Alex Mickelson]

Thanks for. I appreciate you. Thanks for having me.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Cheers.

[Alex Mickelson]

Lifelock.

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[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

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[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

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[Alex Mickelson]

My refund though. I'm freaking out. Don't worry. I can fix this.

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[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

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[Alex Mickelson]

I'll be with you every step of the way.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

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[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

It's a season two playoff race with TGL. Presented by SoFi Sunday at 9pm Eastern Jupiter Links versus Boston Common Golf Club Monday at 7pm Eastern Los Angeles Golf Club versus New York Golf Club. Tuesday at 9pm Eastern. The Bay Golf Club versus Jupiter Links. Keep up. It's Golf Watch on ESPN, ESPN2 and the ESPN app. All right, welcome back to Served. Brought to you by Service now. Mikkelsen's just a fun dude.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

He's great. Big fan.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Not, not not. Doesn't seem like he's going to over complicate it. He's like, it's like what'd you text Lerner? He's like. He's like I texted him, dude, you're so good. Yeah, I just love his old vibe is his old vibe is really cool. I like him. You don't hear anything bad about him. Fun to have him on.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

I'd say I'm query like circa 2006 vibes coming out of that interview. Do we have budget in the served coffers for fact checking?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Oh off I was like hey listen,

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

it was on the ATP Site.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, it's always good. JW, do you ever have any 60 minutes where it's like, hey, you're a Lakers fan. He's like, I'm a Clippers fan. It's like, great. No follow ups. Yeah, I'm just, I found myself just trying to buy, buy time in the empty space of Fuck Uppery.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

The one thing we do know as a fact is that he is naturally a lefty playing right hander. And I thought, I thought that was so interesting.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

It's a bad decision.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yeah, it's a bad decision and I thought it was interesting the way he talked about that. But it brought, it brought up this, this kid, this 15 year old that now is player on tour. He got his first couple points. His name is. Was it Teo Davidov?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

And he beat Crew. He beat another player in Crusoe in Naples this past week to get his first two match points. So now he's the youngest guy ever. But the, the twist is he's fully ambidextrous. So we have a clip. I want you to see it.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

This is interesting.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Perfect forehand on both sides. It's a video that we're playing right now. If you're listening.

[Alex Mickelson]

Good job, kid.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Hitting two forehands depending on what side it goes to.

[Alex Mickelson]

This is the one you have to open. You can open on this open.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Yes.

[Alex Mickelson]

Better.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Okay. Incredibly cool. Congrats to. You know, obviously getting ATP points at, at that age is not something that I was ever close to.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

But is that like sustainable?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Not when it's fast. So I, I've, I've seen people do this before. The part that really intrigues me is the serving. Like it? Luke Jensen could do it, try it, but then he would kind of default to the right when he needed to. If someone can fluently serve with both directions, it changes a lot. Now the grip when the ball is coming fat, like imagine Yannick Sinner hitting at you and you having to switch, because it's not. When you're hitting forehands and backhands, your bottom hand is the same. So to hit two forehands, you have to not only shift the racket, but you also have to slide it down quickly. I question, and I hope I'm wrong for this kid's sake, I question whether or not you can do that when the speed ramps up.

[Alex Mickelson]

Right.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

So the serving thing is really interesting. It's like imagine having a baseball player who could pitch equally well right handed, left handed. That's. That, that is, that is potentially game changing to me.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

I Want, I wonder, there's nothing to prevent you from hitting a left handed first serve and a right handed second serve. Right?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

That would be.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

I think you're, I think you're right though. It's interesting because I, someone in Australia said, listen, we all talk about how tennis is going to keep evolving. And he sort of said, listen, there are a number of kids in the juniors and I think in college that, that did exactly that are basically totally, totally ambidextrous. Not two hands on both sides like, like Jan Mike, but just lefty forehand right beforehand. And the response exactly the pushback was how are they going to manage the grip that quickly?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Well, also think about like returning. Like, are you going to return at one, at one hand has to be on the bottom to return.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Okay.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Like 140 miles an hour is coming. All right. And I'll use this, this pen. But like your right hand goes here, your left hand goes here. If you're returning with your left hand, there's four inches of grip. Your reach is less. And can you firm it up with one hand? Right. Whereas you know, obviously with two hands you kind of use the stability of your bottom hand when you have a tenth of a second to, to react. So I may. And again, I don't know, I don't know enough about this.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

Sean has the other video showing him serving here. Check it out. Yeah, so that was. So he's serving left handed, switches to a right hander and then here's the other one.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

I mean, this is cool. I'm curious to see how it works. I don't, I don't know if there's like a contingency plan of like maybe we hit some normal backends every once in a while just in case. Yeah, this is cool.

[Co-host (possibly Mike or JW)]

I mean if you can figure out the serve doing that right, then the

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

serve, like, I don't know, the serve is great. Like if you, if you can serve that way, that's, that's like something we've never seen before. That's really cool. Luke Jensen.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

Those motions could pretty similar too, didn't they?

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, it looked clean on both sides.

[Co-host (possibly Sean)]

The lefty right motion looked pretty consistent.

[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

Yeah, it looked, it looked. That's pretty cool. That's something to watch for. I mean, as we're thinking through like what does tennis look like? You know, 10 years ago we would have said 6 foot 7 guys who can run, and here we are. So it's not. But again, I just want to wish the tennis family specifically and everyone in the region, but hopefully safe travels. Hopefully there's a way to kind of get out sooner than later and, you know, tennis paradise awaits if that's possible. But anyways, jw, thanks for thanks for joining today. Thanks Mike. Thanks Mickelson for coming on. Thank you Sean. Good job. This has been served. Brought to you by ServiceNow Subscribe. We'll see you next week. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built on. With the ServiceNow AI platform, your AI data and workflows all work together, connecting every corner of your business. To see how you can put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com AI agents.

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[Alex Mickelson]

Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

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[Depop Advertiser]

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[Host (possibly Andy or a main podcast host)]

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