ATP FINALS RECAP: Alcaraz vs. Sinner + Exclusive US Open News

Summary

Podcast Summary: Served with Andy Roddick

Episode: ATP FINALS RECAP: Alcaraz vs. Sinner + Exclusive US Open News
Date: November 18, 2025
Host: Andy Roddick
Guests: JW (Jon Wertheim), Chris Eubanks, Eric Butorac

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the modern tennis rivalry between Carlos Alcaraz and Jannik Sinner, dissecting their recent ATP Finals showdown and broader 2025 campaigns. Andy is joined by longtime analyst JW and newly retired pro Chris Eubanks, who brings a fresh player-broadcaster perspective. The panel also reacts to breaking US Open news with incoming tournament director Eric Butorac, discussing the event's direction and accessibility post-Stacey Allaster.

Tone: Candid, analytical, banter-filled, laced with reverence for the sport and its evolving heroes.

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Major Segments & Key Discussion Points

1. Alcaraz vs. Sinner: The Rivalry Defining Men’s Tennis

[02:03–08:20]

• Changing of the Guard:
  Andy opens by noting the dominance of Alcaraz and Sinner, who have established a significant gap over the rest of the field.
  • Quote (Andy, 03:31): “Sinner beats Alcaraz in the World Tour finals. Alcaraz gets the year end number one ranking. …the way I judge it is, we’re now getting to the point like with Roger, Rafa, Novak…everyone’s angry all the time if something nice is said about one of these two champions.”
• Chris's Perspective:
  Chris Eubanks frames the rivalry as both elevating and daunting for peers, referencing how past rivalries (e.g., Roger–Rafa) forced the tour to improve. He highlights the rapid alternation of results and the “chess match” within their evolving games.
  • Quote (Chris, 04:27): “Not only are they producing great tennis, but they’re also alternating on the results… just the level that they are producing is…remarkable.”
• Field Depth:
  JW gives historical context, noting previous eras never saw such a points gap between No. 2 and No. 3 (e.g., Zverev has fewer than half Sinner’s points).

2. What Sets Sinner & Alcaraz Apart? Technical & Psychological Analysis

[08:20–19:43]

• Self-Awareness & Adjustments:
  Both players are unusually candid about their games’ deficiencies, enabling rapid technical evolution even after defeats.
  • Quote (Andy, 09:16): “I don’t know that we’ve ever had two guys as honest about their deficiencies when the rest of the world doesn’t see any.”
• Team Influence:
  Chris credits Sinner’s coaches (Darren Cahill, Simone Vagnozzi) for fostering this openness and rapid improvement, such as Sinner’s willingness to experiment with variety and improved movement.
• Tactics In-Depth:
  Andy and Chris marvel at the constant tactical cat-and-mouse—Alcaraz improvising approaches, Sinner preemptively adjusting passing shot speed, each raising the bar every match.
  • Quote (Andy, 12:05): “Carlos comes out at the U.S. Open and he’s coming in on shots I don’t define as approach shots.”
• Contrasts for Casual Fans:
  Physical and technical contrasts (Sinner’s control of the middle vs. Alcaraz’s variety and improvisational ability) are outlined, with comparisons to previous greats’ tools and tendencies.

3. Comparing to the “Big Four”: Players & Temperaments

[19:43–27:27]

• Stylized Analogies:
  Chris sees elements of all Big Four players in Alcaraz’s style (Murray’s returning, Rafa’s forehand, Roger’s net skills, Novak’s defense), while Sinner is characterized as Novak v2.0 with an even bigger “front foot” game.
  • Quote (Chris, 16:40): “I always say, I think Janik has two forehands…Janik is just master at being able to just fireballs out of the corners on both sides.”
• Temperament & Generational Shifts:
  The hosts note that, personality-wise, both Sinner and Alcaraz are their own men—Alcaraz more visibly joyful, Sinner businesslike. This generational openness is considered both unique and healthy.
  • Quote (Chris, 27:27): “I wonder how much of that is a generational thing…you want to know what [NBA stars] are thinking? They’ll tell you…there isn’t, it’s not as calculated.”

4. ATP Finals/Winter & Australian Open Hype

[28:31–31:41]

• Conditions as X-Factor:
  Andy and Chris spotlight how Australian heat and scheduling could be the only possible roadblocks to another Alcaraz-Sinner final, given their performance and propensity to “close quickly” on early-round opponents.

  • Quote (Andy, 28:31): “If you get on the wrong side of that heat in Australia, I think Sinner has shown… the heat can get to him a touch.”

• Fun Stat:
  Both have won exactly 1,651 points against each other.

  • Quote (Andy, 31:36): “Equal amount of points up to this point in their career: 1651. 1651. Insane.”

• Remarkable Parity:
  Highlight that, even with Sinner winning fewer head-to-heads, the rivalry is essentially even on total points won, titles, and finals reached.

  • Quote (Chris, 32:02): “They’ve played 3302 points and they are currently tied at 1651 points.”

5. Sinner & Alcaraz: Serve Improvements & Coaching Openness

[32:27–34:55]

• Serve Evolution:
  Both have completely revamped their service motions mid-career, a rarity for top pros.
  • Quote (Andy, 33:27): “Adjusting your service motion mid-career…that’s not easy, that’s impossible, especially when you start stress testing it in real time.”
• Coaching Dynamic:
  Sinner’s responsiveness to his team for technical change is praised as exceptional and rare among already-established greats.

6. The "Zverev Problem": Respecting the Next Tier

[34:55–43:54]

• Reframing Zverev:
  The panel strongly rebukes the characterization of Zverev as “not that good.” Despite lacking a Slam, his movement, serve, backhand, and consistency as a top-3 player are all highlighted.
  • Quote (Andy, 42:35): “To simply sit there and say he’s not that good is offensive to every tennis player on the planet, in my opinion.”
  • Quote (Chris, 38:37): “There’s no way you can sit there and watch him… and go, ‘yeah, this guy isn’t that…’ His track record speaks for itself.”
• Broader Message:
  The dangers of comparing all players unfavorably to current greats is discussed—such disrespect is “offensive” to the sport and its difficulty.

7. Exclusive Segment: New US Open Tournament Director Eric Butorac

[45:34–59:07]

• Butorac’s Journey:
  Andy introduces Eric, reflecting on his evolution from player relations to tournament director, with mentorship from outgoing director Stacey Allaster.
  • Quote (Eric, 46:49): “When you leave the tennis court and walk into an office, no one tells you how to read a budget or CC someone on an email.”
• Philosophy & Challenges:
  Eric emphasizes transparency, leading with integrity, and always striving for a better player and fan experience—even if decisions are unpopular.
  • Quote (Eric, 47:49): “I want the US Open to be better. I love sitting in the After Action Report where we went through 585 line items of things we want to do better next year.”
• Balancing Accessibility & Commercial Demand:
  JW questions maintaining fan accessibility as the US Open grows ever more popular and expensive; Eric pledges to keep some elements (e.g., free sessions on outside courts) for fans, resisting the pressure to monetize everything.
  • Quote (Eric, 54:45): “We need to keep something that is accessible for the fan to…experience the US Open.”
• Leadership Reflections:
  Eric shares his adjustment to high-stakes decision-making—being the final voice after years of being “one of the guys with an opinion from the back.”
  • Quote (Eric, 53:03): “There was a moment in Cincinnati as TD…then we had to make a decision. They all looked at me and I thought, ‘Oh crap.’”
• Player Relations:
  Eric shares his approach to player complaints: face them, own tough decisions, and avoid hiding.
  • Quote (Eric, 56:47): “I don’t go hide in a back office…when there’s a horrific traffic jam… I'll go out there and stand in the garden and sort of take it on the chin.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• JW on the Alcaraz-Sinner rivalry:
  “It’s almost weird if they don’t meet in finals now…” [06:05]
• Chris on Sinner’s serve changes:
  “Before Wimbledon was…I saw him serve and I go, whoa, whoa, what is this? Like, this is not—” [35:34]
• Andy on Zverev criticism:
  “If you sit there and say Zverev is not that good, I kind of dismiss anything you say after, afterwards. You’ve lost me.” [43:15]
• Eric Butorac on leadership:
  “There is a component to that job where you are a punching bag… I don’t go hide in a back office. I’m always out and about.” [56:47]

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Episode Structure & Timestamps

• [02:03–19:43] Rivalry analysis: Alcaraz vs. Sinner—the current state, tactical evolution, personality contrasts.
• [19:43–27:27] Analogs to "Big Four," temperament, and generational shifts.
• [28:31–34:55] Australian Open preview, serve mechanics, coaching openness.
• [34:55–43:54] Zverev's legacy and the problem with dismissing non-Slam-winners.
• [45:34–59:07] Exclusive interview: Eric Butorac, new US Open tournament director—leadership, accessibility, and honesty.
• [59:07–61:33] Reflections and preview of upcoming episodes.

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Takeaways

• Alcaraz and Sinner’s rivalry is driving tennis forward in ways reminiscent of the Federer-Rafa era, but with even starker technical and psychological openness.
• Both are remarkably honest, coachable, and tactically adaptable—traits that are not common at the very top of any sport.
• There is a danger in diminishing the achievements of perennial contenders (like Zverev) simply because of the exceptional greatness of current rivals.
• The US Open, under new director Eric Butorac, will aim to balance meteoric commercial success with fan accessibility and transparency, following a tradition of responsive, honest leadership.

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Closing Notes:
Stay tuned for “Top 10 Matches of 2025” and fan Q&As in coming episodes. The episode embodies both admiration for tennis’s elite and humility about the broader competitive landscape. Chris Eubanks affirms his broadcasting future; Eric Butorac pledges to keep the US Open fan-first.

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Transcript

[Andy]

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[Andy]

Welcome to served. I'm Andy, JW techie Sean, producer Mike, what's up? And full time media personality and analyst Chris Eubanks joined the show this week.

[Chris Eubanks]

Wow, what a warm intro.

[Andy]

Banksy, we did a quick served on you yesterday, but how you, how you feeling? It's actually only six minutes after we filmed that. So how you feeling? How's retirement settling in?

[Chris Eubanks]

Is it sunk in yet?

I feel just as good as I did. Just as good as I did 10 minutes ago. Phone's a little bit crazy, but overall great.

[Andy]

Good. Jw, what's, what's, what's shaking? Where are you?

[JW]

Where are you?

[Andy]

In the office early today, bud.

[JW]

Yeah, no, back. Back in New York. Can I just say I love that we have a retirement announcement and six minutes later we are the first post tennis gig for Chris Eubank. This is going to be historic.

[Andy]

I'm sorry, are we.

[Chris Eubanks]

It's only right.

[Andy]

Are we not here to work? I don't understand. I thought he was retiring to do this. I don't get this. Like, can we just get to it?

[Chris Eubanks]

He's got a flight to catch. Go to the beach.

[Andy]

Yeah. So obviously the story of the week, the year, the last two years. On the men's side is Alcaraz Center. It does not look like that storyline will change. The space between them is slim if there at all. And the space between them and the rest of earth seems large Banks. Is it getting larger?

[Chris Eubanks]

Try not to be like, I don't want to just jump in and say it's getting larger, but it's more established. It's certainly large enough already. Yeah, it's certainly it's solid. There's a solid gap there. I think the reason I'm hesitant to say it's getting larger is because granted I was a kid, you were playing at the same time, I felt like there was a bit of that Roger Rafa for a while, but that elevated the rest of the tour, like guys got better as a result of it. So we may not be able to see the gap kind of closing and we see these two as like superhuman, which they obviously are. I just don't want to be a prisoner of the moment and go, oh, they're running away from the field. Like right now they're already far enough away. Now it's up to the field, which will happen at some point that they will start to close that gap. But yeah, they are, they are clearly the top two guys right now. I think, you know, other players know it, I think media knows it and it's, yeah, it's, it's a fun time to be a tennis fan and we.

[Andy]

Want to, we want to level set off the top. Obviously. Sinner beats Alcaraz in the World Tour finals. Alcaraz gets the year end number one ranking. Phenomenal. Like there's not enough superlatives. And now the way I judges bags. I'm curious to hear your opinion on this is we're now getting to the point like with Roger Rafa Novak, if you ever said something nice about one of them, right, and you're like, oh well, they need, you know, maybe Carlos doesn't do well indoors. It's like you have, you have center fans going well. He needs to deal with it. Like it's, there's, there's kind of. They both gotten good enough to where everyone's angry all the time of something nice said about one of these two champions. Carlos well deserved number one in the world win slams basically every year now. And center almost snuck out the world number one ranking having missed three months. Like these two are just absolutely phenomenal. What they've, they've done this year.

[Chris Eubanks]

Yeah, it's especially to see Yannick come so close after missing those three months, missing, what was it, six big titles like and to still obviously Carlos edged them out. Carlos was able to get him at Roland Garros, was able to get him at the Open. But it's a, it's just such a fun kind of rivalry because not only are they producing great tennis, but they're also alternating on the results who's winning. It's like Center's dominating and Roland Garros and Alcaraz Comes back, finds a way to win it. Crazy. Now the next time they play, center is able to topple them at Wimbledon, a place that Carlos had won twice already. Now you come back to the US Open. Carlos takes some time off. He tries to work on his game. You come back to the US Open, Carlos wins in four. Okay, now they're moving indoors. Center wins in straights. It's like you can't really get a good sense of. We can debate all day, you know, who's going to win the next matchup. You know, they play in Australia. I'm sure that's going to be the topic. You know, Carlos. Are we going to get to Carlos center final? And, you know, center's track record in Australia has been great. So I think a lot of people are probably going to pick him because we don't have enough information to go on coming out of the offseason. But you can make a good enough case that, oh, if Carlos gets healthy, he'll be able to make adjustments to be able to win it, to counter center again. Like, they're just alternating who's winning and just the level that they are producing is. It's fun to watch players at the top of the game like this because I think the chess match is really, really fun to dig into and the corrections that they are making and learning from each loss that one of them takes, they are able to kind of flip it, find ways to get better, and then to come out on top the next time. It's pretty remarkable.

[JW]

It's great from a fan perspective, and you pick your tribe, but these guys are making each other better. And remember, we did that Flash podcast right after the US Open with all three of us were in random places. But right before that Sinner went into the press room, he was written down. He just said, look, I've got to adjust it. I've got to figure out a way to make my game better. I need to come up with some answers. And then you look at what happened in Turin, and he served a lot better. We saw a little bit of use of the drop shot. Maybe Alcaraz was injured, but good on center for taking advantage of that. I. I think the one thing, I mean, it's. This is a tremendous rivalry already. It's. It's almost weird if they don't meet in finals. Now we're talking about Australia. Like, you sort of rack your brain to figure out what's what. One guy is going for the career slam, Alcaraz, the other is going for his third straight title. Like man, short of injury, what would have to happen for them not to meet in the final? I think the one thing, if you go back 20 years ago, you had Roger and Rafa, but you also had this elevating the rest of the field. And Djokovic is obviously the most obvious example of someone who said, wait a second, I know what I've got to do now. I've got to go execute it. I want to be part of this party. But even Andy, you and Murray and Jay, I mean everyone else kind of raised their game. And I think what we don't want to get too greedy. Alcaraz and Sinner are this glorious rivalry. I think what we're waiting for is somebody in the rest of the field to step up and say, I want this to be a three way rivalry the way Novak did. I mean, going back to the point before, it's a really long staircase down to that 3, 4, 5 level. And that isn't just the eye test. I mean, that's statistically too. I mean, right now Zverev has fewer than half as many points at number three as Sinner does at number two. I can't find a time, I mean, even I pulled up some of these old rankings from, from 20 years ago when Roger and Rafa were catching gears. And even at the height of Fedor Nadal, it was never this big a gap between 1, 2 and then 3, 4, 5. So if the rest, if the rivalry effect on the two of them is tremendous, it's great now in 2026 if this rivalry effect catches on and impacts the rest of the field as well.

[Andy]

One of, one of the things that, that you mentioned quickly, JW and I don't want to gloss this over and I certainly want, want Chris's thoughts on this as a top player.

[JW]

Right.

[Andy]

I often say our strengths can become our weaknesses. Right. You're stubborn for Carlos. And I was wondering after Indian Wells, he loses to Draper and he walks in, he goes, I'm trying to find it. I'm insecure. I was nervous. I don't know that we've ever had two guys that are as honest about their deficiencies when the rest of the world doesn't see any. Right. So Sinner goes in post US Open press conference. He's fresh off of winning Wimbledon and not really losing to anyone not named Carlos and winning the Australian Open and almost winning. And he walks in and goes, I need to change a lot. That is an insane amount of self awareness and certainly a level of self awareness that I never had.

[Eric Buterack]

Right.

[Andy]

To be. To know that you're, if not the best in the world, one of two. And to walk in straight in the US Open and have clarity about what comes next. Chris, that. That's not a normal thing for. For a player to have, especially that quickly after a defeat.

[Eric Buterack]

Right?

[Chris Eubanks]

Yeah. But I. I also think that Janik obviously has a phenomenal team around him. And I think having. Having Darren, having Simone, I'm sure these are things that they have mentioned to him already of, like, hey, maybe using a bit more variety. Darren, when he came on your pod, spoke about the conversation he had with Novak after Novak beat him at Wimbledon, saying, everything is one speed. He's got to vary it up a little bit. Well, he was able to kind of make those changes, and for everybody else in the world, was not named Carlos. It's been good enough. But now you're coming up against that one guy who matches you from a movement standpoint. He has the firepower that you do. He has a bit more variety, a bit more feel, and that proved to be pretty costly in that US Open. So now the guy also hasn't lost very much. I think it's a little. It's. It's. I don't. It's a little easier to assess when you're on such a heater. And then you take that one loss and you're like, what happened? It's like, oh, well, Carlos was coming in, he was mixing in the slice, he was finding his way in, kind of reinforcing the things that I'm sure, without speaking to him. Darren and Simone have tried to implore Yannick to do, but he's been dominant against everybody else in the world. So it's like, hey, maybe take a few risks and look to come in. You may get passed, but it's going to work long term. I'm sure Janik is a great steward and he listens, but when you're on the court and you're playing somebody, you're like, I know I can just out bruise this guy from the back and I'm going to win. It takes a special type of person to be like, you know what? I'm going to not care about the result and just try to get better. And maybe that loss to Carlos is what he needed because we saw it here in turn not to jump ahead, but we saw some of those tactics that he spoke about in that US Open press conference, looking to sneak in. We saw some, I thought, some amazing backhand redirects up the line, which I was like, geez, he's just firing the back end up the line, like, but not just hitting it. He's taking that. Roger used to do it a lot, that kind of step forward, like, am I coming? Nope. And then he would kind of go back. You saw multiple times saying that Carlos was outstretched, and he had that kind of, like, splits up, like, ah, you know what? Nah, I'll go back. But he's looking. He's looking to get his feet inside the baseline, looking to sneak in. It's like, oh, he's not just settling with being, you know, the best in the world right now. He's still looking at ways to improve. But I think a lot of that goes back to the team he has, and they're doing a great job of continuing to progress and wanting him to continue to get better.

[Andy]

The other thing that I noticed yesterday was Alcaraz in the US Open final. And this is just to kind of belabor the point of these adjustments. On adjustments, on adjustments, on adjustments. They're not making the same adjustments that they were eight months ago even, right? So Carlos comes out at the U.S. open, and he's coming in on shots that I don't define as approach shots.

[Chris Eubanks]

I mean, just like, what are you like, yeah, just running in on some of those balls.

[Andy]

I said, is that the next version of coming in? Right, people, When. When the guys are so good now and the technology with rackets and everything has created the ability to create spin at such a crazy amount. Is this the neck? Is what Carlos is able to do the next version of. Of getting in, where he just takes. I think so a haymaker, anywhere comes in and then. But the difference is, you and I, Chris, we're not good enough to adjust on the fly and pick balls off of our shoe tops and create a variety of shots, right?

[Eric Buterack]

You.

[Andy]

Because you kind of have to go in, and then at that point, you're playing street ball, right?

[Chris Eubanks]

You're.

[Andy]

You're adjusting what's in front of you. But Sinner saw what we saw at the US Open. He saw what Carlos was doing. There was six or seven times in that match in Turin. I say yesterday, it was two days ago. By the time you listen to this, where he hit his passing shots just that much firmer, caught Carlos coming in on those shots. It's like, okay, that worked once in New York, but now I'm looking for it, right? And it's that constant cat and mouse. That was something that stood out to me yesterday, where Carlos tried it again, was coming in just, you know, on a shot that Looked like it was just a shot from the baseline. It wasn't. There was no invitation to come in.

[Chris Eubanks]

Carlos had a servant volley one time that was two feet inside the baseline. Went forehand volley inside in, comes to net and then closes like so tight with a foreign volley. Blocks it up the line. I think center went for the lob and missed it, but it was like serve was kind of hanging around. Landed in no man's land. He scoops it up with a forehand volley inside in and then just full charges the net. And I'm like, what is this?

[Andy]

Yeah, he won that.

[JW]

He went, won that point and he won the point.

[Chris Eubanks]

I was like, what is going on?

[JW]

Yeah, wait, this is really interesting because I think casual fans are a little, you know, with, with Roger and Rafa, right? I mean, they were, they were, they were the same height and they were exactly the same weight down to the pound.

[Andy]

But then I called bullshit on that with Roger and Rafa, by the way, just so we're clear. I was like, really?

[Chris Eubanks]

Yeah. I look at that picture of me.

[Andy]

Yeah, I see pictures right here. No, anyways, go ahead.

[JW]

Sorry, 611 87. No, but, but I think then, then you watch, right? In any casual fan, oh, this guy, it's lefty and righty and this guy's making all sorts of noise and the other guy's silent and it's, I mean, the contrasts were really obvious with Sinner and Alcaraz. It's interesting because you see them physically at the net and there's like, I mean, there's a good half a foot of height difference. But after that, I think casual fans might be. What would you tell the casual fan what to look for in terms of contrast in this rivalry?

[Andy]

Here's what I think. And Eubanks is going to bring up something smart that I haven't thought of after this, I'm sure. But for me, Sinner, as far as controlling the middle of the court. So you serve first ball, you return deep first ball in the middle of the court. He's as good as I've seen at swallowing the middle of the court with pace. You can hit it hard. He will read, he will stay in that cross court rally if he needs to. And you can't gain on him with Pace. Nobody is going through your Yannick Sinner. The reason that Alcaraz is able to have a level of effectiveness that no one on earth has against him is because he can hit every shot, right? He can hit the drop shots on clay. He can fade away. If Sinner Knows what's coming. It is curtains. It's like Ohtani and Barry Bonds looking for a pitch. They rarely miss it if they know what's coming. Carlos has five pitches versus a fastball and an off speed pitch. Right. And so that is the difference. Sinner is the best, one of the best I've ever seen at controlling the middle of the court, maybe along with, with Andre. Except Andre wasn't 6 foot 5 and he didn't have that movement and defense out of the corners. And he would tell you the exact same thing. One of the challenges, I think, when we go indoors is that Carlos loses one of his options.

[Chris Eubanks]

Right.

[Andy]

He can't flip the ball up and away from center. He's not going to kick it out wide. And the, the bounce stays a little bit more muted. Right. So it's tougher to get out of center's pocket indoors in this is. I don't want to be hyperbolic when you can't, when you can't really go up and out of the zone and then you kind of have to win points through his pocket. I think it becomes even more challenging for players when they go against Jannik indoors. Whereas, you know, if you had a heat map of where people put you in trouble, Jannik's heat map would be between his shoulders and, and his knees and he crushes you if he's in that heat map. Whereas Carlos has the ability to get outside of that heat map more than anyone else on earth. What did I get wrong there, Chris?

[Chris Eubanks]

No, you, you hit the nail on the head with a few things. The first thing when you were saying Yannick's heat map is, is has such a wide range of like strike zones that he can hurt you from. And so he, I always say, I think Janik has two forehands. I think it's. You run them to the forehand side, he obviously can hurt you out of the corners. You run up to the back inside, he can still hurt you out of the corners. When I was growing up, we were always taught typically you want to approach to the backhand, you want to approach inside out because it limits their ability, because they have to kind of, it's kind of tough without a court, but they have to kind of cross their foot, maybe use a slice, you kind of get some. It's just a little bit more uncomfortable to hit it this way than it is from like a semi open position. Janik is just master being able to just fireballs out of the corners on both sides. To Carlos's point though. And I really? You know, I love watching Carlos because as a kid at the time, who grew up watching the Big Four, I see. I see elements of the Big Four in Carlos's game, every single one of them. I see the second serve return. We see Carlos now stepping up close to the baseline, stinging it on the back inside. Reminds me of Murray. Like, it reminds me of Murray, his ability to kind of step up, inject pace really quickly, and then get back. He's got a phenomenal lob as well when he's hitting the forehand. I think on usually I would say it's a bit more like Rafa, but I think his running forehand and when he's looking to take time away, when he has to cut the angle off, take that forehand line and run to the net, his skills at the net resemble Roger, like, undoubtedly his ability. And the thing is, Carlos makes a lot of flashy volleys, but he's so technically sound when Roger. I remember as a kid watching Roger volley and coaches would always say, don't volley like that because he's. He's just gifted. Like, he can. He can break the risk, he can break some of the rules that you kind of told how you need to get down at eye level. Carlos is such a technically sound volier. And that part reminds me of Roger and of course, Novak, his defensive skills out of the corners, being able to kind of inject pace on the backhand, scrap and claw like he has all of the Big Four. So in this matchup with center, it's just about, you know, we talk about, he's a. He's magician. It's just about playing the right things at the right time. And I think this, what we saw recently, this new implementation of crush and rush at times where Carlos is just going to try to utilize all the tools that he has to keep center uncomfortable. He can use the slice to kind of maybe bring Yannick up into the court close to the baseline, and then try to sting him hard to the corners. Like, he's just trying to out. He's the only guy in the world who I think can move with Yannick. So he's utilizing his movement, he's utilizing variety to just try to get Yannick uncomfortable. Because when he gets comfortable, especially indoors, there's not that much you can do. Now he's serving a joke. So it's like, all right, sweet. He went 116 yesterday. Set point, break point in the first, and Carlos missed the return. Because Carlos is trying to get in and be aggressive. Like, all right, yeah. If he's hitting seconds and crunch time at 116, 115. He's serving great first serves. He's firing winners on both wings. What do you do? What do you do is the major question.

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[Andy]

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[JW]

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[Andy]

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[Andy]

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[Chris Eubanks]

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[JW]

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[Chris Eubanks]

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[Andy]

I have so many things written down here and I don't want to miss anything with your comp on the big three and the big four. I think Carlos is. Is. Is. Is a marriage of Roger Rafa. I'm sorry, Roger Rafa and Murray. Actually I think sinner is Djokovic 2.0. I think he's an inch taller. I think. I think if. If the trade off with Novak was 4060 on the front foot versus I'm happy to D up which I which is I think is like an accurate thing. He can obviously punch you out if he needs to, but he was so good at just swallowing pace making every point just brutal. I think sinners maybe the opposite. He's 60, 40. He wants to get on that Front foot maybe a little bit earlier than Novak, but I think their games, without getting too creative, are the most similar. And then I think Carlos is. Carlos is this wrap up of, you know, on clay, that forehand comes off and it bounces over your head. Right. He's able to flatten it out like Roger and use that kind of the amazing footwork. Right. You can have a big forehand, but if you can't get your feet set quick enough in position, then you can't pull the trigger as often. I think the gift of Roger and the comp to Carlos is the footwork. Their feet barely touch the ground. They don't have to think about how to get in position. They can hit it big going left, they can hit it big going right. The angles they're able to take with their footwork makes their forehands feel even bigger than they are.

[Chris Eubanks]

Yeah, taking time away. Taking time away on the forehand can make a ball sink 5 mph faster. And if they run in and cut the angle and just cut it, get it early, it's like cheese.

[Andy]

Yep. It's just Roger was the master of that. He was a master of taking away time. He didn't knock your head off with pace.

[JW]

Right.

[Andy]

But he was able to read the game and then buy three or four steps and all of a sudden he's redirecting and you haven't figured out what's going on yet.

[Chris Eubanks]

Right.

[Andy]

He's the master of that. Carlos has that ability. The other thing he has is the ability. You said crush and rush like Murray on that backhand side. If you think about the way that Roger and Rafa return, Roger later in his career would step in and take cuts on the backhand side. But for a large portion of his career, he was so good at putting that chip in play. And then if you were neutral, you were actually behind, Rafa would, you know, preferred to go back and then kind of flip it up over your head. With this crazy spin mechanism that we had never seen, Carlos has the ability to hit those like, punchy short returns like Murray did. Right. And I think that's where kind of he's a mixture of those three. Whereas Sinner, I think is, is the next version of, of, of, of a Novak, you know, so it, it's fun to kind of see how those tools play against each other, you know, and kind of mimic patterns we've seen. But then they're taking on this two new life based on these two guys and kind of continuing those, those, those chess matches.

[JW]

Wait, let me Throw a thought exercise at you instead of X's and O's. Temperamentally, I would submit these two guys are nothing like the big three. I mean, Alcaraz has this permanent smile and he's got this showstopper instinct. We talk about sort of Roger and his magic, but it wasn't often at the expense of sort of getting a reaction from the crowd. It was just his sort of pressing itself. And Sinner is sort. I like the proto Novak comparison. And you know, If Novak had 2 extra inches of wingspan and I mean.

[Chris Eubanks]

This growing up with Poly, for sure.

[JW]

Yeah, exactly. That's a good point too. We haven't talked about, but I feel like. But it's not Novak's temperament and it's not the level of sports psychology and sort of the self belief. I feel like one thing I love about this rivalry is that as and you could see the elements of the games from the previous generation, but in terms of temperament and personality and risk threshold, I don't see a lot of overlap. You guys, you buy that?

[Andy]

Yeah, I think so. I think comparing personality, I believe more now than I ever have in my life. Like, you make adjustments off your temperament and you try to figure out the best version of yourself to navigate through matches. And I also think, you know, when I was growing up, it's like everyone had to try to act this way, right? It's like you. Everyone went through the same process everyone went through. And I've talked about this when we've been speaking about. Sabalenka is the most obvious example now of like, you have to play to your personality and then figure it out, but not play to the opposite of your personality. Right. I remember early 90s. Like everyone, they all wanted us to. Deep breath. They all wanted us to fist pump this many times and have this positive reinforcement. And some people need to just blow a gasket, rip your shirt. Well, Novak. Novak's a master at creating friction because he's really good at leaning into friction. Like he's able to find his spaces. Rafa is great at like, oh, I don't know how it's going to go. I hope I can just win two rounds and then he gets you like, like a. Like a dog with some meat on it. Right? Like, everyone has to find their pacing. So, yeah, I mean, I think their personalities are different. I think Roger enjoyed hitting crazy shots more than you guys are giving him credit for. I know, I know for sure. Yeah. Like, I don't totally buy that. I think, I don't think it's Accidental that he sabers when he's up two sets to love. I, I like he does it where he's not looking for it immediately. Like, like, like Carlos, he does it.

[Chris Eubanks]

Yes, that, that's a he does. It's not like he won. He, like he's dying for it. But if the opportunity presents itself and he's in a rally with now Bandian at the Open or Davidenko at the Open, and he's like, fire one, fire two, fire three. By the fourth one swinging out of his shoes, rips a winner and he kind of like, ah, well, the difference.

[Andy]

Is, is a smirk versus a finger to your ear and a look upwards.

[JW]

Right?

[Andy]

Like that's the difference. That's basically what we're talking about. But yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't know that someone's going to look at the personality of, of Novak and say, okay, I have to create more friction. That's not Jannik's personality. Like, Yannick wants to get to business. He wants to keep everything inside. I think he feels way bigger than he presents. And then, you know, with Carlos, it's like he's unapologetically. I'm going to show, I'm going to smile and, and I'm also going to tell you when I'm not feeling great or inspired.

[JW]

Yeah, no, that's my point. That they borrowed elements of the tennis for sure, but they have their own personalities that they're not trying to. This is how Novak would comport himself. So I must now do this.

[Chris Eubanks]

Yeah. You know. You know, jw, real quick, I wonder how much of that is a generational thing, just being younger. I think just younger gener. Younger generations are more open with sharing and just being kind of honest. It's not just in tennis is across the board. If you were watching an NBA game and you wanted to know what Anthony Edwards was thinking, he'll tell you. You want to know what wimby's thinking? Like, they'll tell you. Like, there, there isn't. It's not as calculated and it's manicured. The, the responses in the media. You know, I just want to go out and give my best effort and.

[Andy]

Thank you very much.

[Chris Eubanks]

We'll see what happens. Like, it's like, no, like, yeah, I feel good. I like, I like the way that I played. And it's just, there's an honest reflection. Carlos said, hey, I don't have it right now. We'll figure it out. Like, when I was growing up, coaches were saying, you never tell your opponent or tell people that you're low on confidence.

[Andy]

I lied so much, Chris, 100%. I did everyone all the time, nonstop.

[JW]

Did you guys hear, did you hear Carlos also saying like get, get ready for. I'm paraphrasing but you know, get, get ready for 20, 26, Yannick, because I'm going to be there.

[Andy]

Yeah, well, the interesting, the interesting thing you, you, you had mentioned and we're, we're kind of winding back to earlier in the conversation, jw, but there's so much to unp. But you said what does it look like in Australia? So there's. Jannik's obviously been dominant there. He showed up ready. I think Carlos kind of limped through the end of the year. Last year he didn't look like himself at World Tour Finals. This version is very different. The way he finished this year and the way that he won four matches at World Tour Finals, very different. I think the career Grand Slam and potentially being the youngest, I think still to potentially get that, I think that's going to be a big motivator. The difference is, is that if there's one thing to wonder about with both of them, actually I think Carlos is. Has spent more time kind of, maybe it exposed him a little bit earlier. But if you get on the wrong side of that heat in Australia, I think Sinner has shown that if anything the heat can get to him a touch. Right. If, whether it's Cincy, whether it's Shanghai and cramps and what. And we are absolutely nitpicking Carlos also with not knowing how to navigate the three out of five. He went full body cramps at the, at the French Open. So you said in what world would these two not play in the finals of Australia? I think the single biggest factor is going to be conditions. If they get one of those days where they feel like they're playing in a hairdryer, I think that is going to be the biggest thing, maybe not necessarily matchups and you know, they can cover up most of. Of Earth. Is that too lazy of a take, Chris?

[Chris Eubanks]

No, I think like you said with these guys, we're nitpicking. We're looking for any reason like what. What could possibly happen within reason that would cause these two to not make the final based on what we've seen this year. And I didn't think of the conditions. The one thing I will say about the conditions, you know, Yannick is, is especially Yannick and Carlos, they've kind of elevated to that stature now. Whereas, you know, and you probably could speak to from a player standpoint of they, they come to Australia and they say hey, we want to play this at night if we can. They're going to try to accommodate like if that's what they want to do. The second thing is I don't think the heat will bother them enough in the earlier rounds. I just feel like with center it's it, it can be done and dusted pretty quickly. So you know, unless they get some crazy, you know, a tricky matchup against like a Penche Perry car, somebody who just keeps them out there. Seven, six. First set on a super hot day. Another seven. Like unless it's something like that. I just don't see in those early rounds who would be unseated. That could cause them enough trouble where is actually going to become strenuous in the heat. So yeah, I don't.

[JW]

There's a 38 year old from Serbia who may have a, a say in the scheduling too. But let, Let me ask you guys real quick. If, if these guys do meet in the final, I'm sure you saw this.

[Andy]

They would nothing like a three month ahead of time prediction in a finals matchup. This is what I love.

[JW]

They will both. This is not a, this is not a particularly bold prediction because it's rooted in math. They'll both go into that final with 1651 points against the other one. Crazy.

[Andy]

Equal amount of points up to this point in their career. 1651. 1651. Insane. What do you got?

[Chris Eubanks]

That's what I was going to go with.

[JW]

Craziest part about that is the head to head. You're like, okay, they must have the exact same numbers of wins and losses. And then you're like wait, 10 to 6 and they've won the exact same number of points.

[Andy]

Yeah, I mean that's the. Go watch, go watch the Fed college speech. Where do you do that?

[Chris Eubanks]

Yeah, I was going to hit you guys with that stat, right?

It's Dartmouth.

Yeah, Dartmouth. It's. It's. They've played 3302 points and they are currently tied at 1651 points. In 2025, Sinner had six losses and six titles. Carlos had nine losses in eight titles. In 2025, both guys have 24 career titles. You know who else has 24 career titles?

[JW]

Who?

[Chris Eubanks]

Alexander Zverev.

[Andy]

Listen. Okay.

[Chris Eubanks]

I mean I'm just saying this guy. These guys are way up at the top.

[Andy]

It's a joke. And also there's, there's a couple things. One, listen, I think we've, we've gotten through the one other thing I want to say about center is doing an adjustment on your serve and changing where you're hitting it. You're too far out in front, bringing the toss back, adjusting it, it's too far right. So he's made a full adjustment on the fly and it's pretty much worked immediately. One that's not easy, that's impossible, especially when you start stress testing it in real, in real time. He made it look easy when he went from platform serving where he used to go off two feet, kind of similar to what I did versus what Chris did, where he would bring it up a little bit more. He did that right after Wimbledon or right before Wimbledon one year and he made it. It sucks because we wouldn't spend enough time if it went sideways. We would spend a full episode talking about it. And I don't want to gloss over it. Just because he's made these adjustments and been able to implement them in real time, that doesn't make it less difficult. I mean that's, it's an insane thing to do.

[Chris Eubanks]

Is that like, is that like a hitter changing his stance, a quarterback changing his throwing motion, like a shooter changing his jump shot, like mid season, a.

Shooter changing his jump shot, I think is probably the best comparison.

[Andy]

Yeah, it's not like an arm angle on one serve or it's not a, it's not a, an adjustment on one shot or a free throw or like something that's a subset of like he has to start half his points with this new thing and deliver it. And you know, he didn't serve 50% in the US Open final. And then he goes to Turin. The one against Alcaraz was actually his lowest first serve percentage of the week, but he was up over 70%. Now he did it last year in turn, but there's two things, and Chris actually got to this, which I think is a great point. And this proves what he was saying earlier and is there's being open to change when you're that good is really hard. And also the fact that he empowers his team to say, okay, well I know you're this guy, I know you're Yannick Sinner. All those stats that you just talked about and I'd like you to change this. And he goes, yeah, let's try it. Like giving your team the ability for input is, is not the case all the time. When you've been as successful as Sinner's been the last two years. I was a dickhead about it. I mean, I know that'll shock no one. But, like, I was like, don't tell me I'm not ready to hear it. But, like, his ability to kind of be ready for information that may help him at all times. I don't think that's normal. Do you think that's normal, Chris? I think it's insane.

[Chris Eubanks]

No, not. Not to be that successful already. Being able to do, especially middle of the year, change your service motion at the end of the year, go through the off season, all right, you've had some time, but right in the summer to show up. Change your service motion. Before Wimbledon was. Was. I remember when I saw it the first time I saw him serve, I go, whoa, whoa, what is this? Like, this is not. I played him in 22 at the Open, so it had to been. Was it 23 when he changed the serve? I played him in 22 and he was platform. And then I just look up. First thing I see when he's. He's sliding the foot up, not even sliding. He's actually picking it up and, like, putting it there. I was like, that's weird. Why now? And sure, what do I know?

[Andy]

Both of them, by the way you take their serves. I would argue that their serves are the most improved parts of both of their games over the last, like, three years. Carlos could always hit it hard and big. Like, I remember when he won Miami the first time he was, you know, the register was still 135, 137. The variety that he's able to hit. He used to be steep to where you knew that it wasn't getting as much motion. Like, you look at him now, he can hit the wide one in. In a returner's count. He can hit, slice. He can mix up kicks. He's kind of developing almost that Roger thing where he is not scared to hit any serve in any pitch count. Right? And Yannick, real quick, Andy, he's also.

[Chris Eubanks]

Tinkering with his motion a little bit all the time.

[Andy]

Completely.

[Chris Eubanks]

He's rounded out the bottom. Exactly.

[Andy]

Totally. He used to be like this, and now it's like a. Think of it as your take back for you listeners at home. He used to take it down and up, and it. It was sharp, almost like a V. So your arms go down, it gets to a point, and it's sharp back up, and it looks like a V, which I think constricts the ability to create spin. Now it's almost like a rounded out U, which means his elbow more consistently gets back in. In this in the right spot. And he's done that in real time. Also without a lot of attention, like the ability of these guys to constantly seek improvement and to be able to adjust on the fly, where we would be talking about it ad nauseam if they didn't make it look easy. It's just. It's just absurd. Oh, and you mentioned Zverev also. I'm kind of sick. And listen, you might not be a fan of Sasha for reasons and things that have happened off court or whatever it might be, but there have been people on, you know, different podcasts and different who are like. They're like. They treat a guy like he's not a great player. And that pisses me off. You talk about 24 titles.

[Chris Eubanks]

Yeah.

[Andy]

He's made World Tour finals every year that he hasn't been hurt for the last nine years. There are not a lot of people who have made World Tour finals eight times and won twice because Carlos and Jannik are so good. I don't ever, ever, ever want to get to the place where anyone who's not them is treated like a piece of shit. Like, that's ridiculous. Can you go off on that a little bit, Chris, now that you're a retired player?

[Chris Eubanks]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I. I remember I saw a clip. I saw a clip of a pod. I'm not gonna say who it was, but they were trying to make the point that. And again, to your. What you said previously. I think a lot of this. This animus we hear about people talking about Zverev's tennis stems from their belief or their feelings about him off the court. But strictly if we're talking tennis, I don't.

[Andy]

I don't know Sasha. I've met him a couple times in passing. And also, that has no bearing on my opinions.

[Chris Eubanks]

With his tennis opinions on. On the correct. It shouldn't. We have to be able to separate the two and compartmentalize and be objective. Whatever that, Whatever you feel about off the court, that's one thing. If we're talking tennis, yes, it was someone on a pot who tried to drive home the point. That, and I'm gonna quote it, was like, I just don't know what he does. He's just not that good. He's just. I watch him and he's just not that good.

[Andy]

And I'm looking and I go so angry.

[Chris Eubanks]

What are you talking about? The guy. The guy's 67, usually serves around 75 to 80%. First serves averaging 135 miles an hour, has one of the best backhands we've ever Seen was actually, I mean, yeah, we can say that there are guys before him, big guys was kind of the first of the big guys who was an exceptional mover. I felt like before him there would be, there would be big guys who we say moves well for a big guy. That guy moves well for a big guy. Zverev. His movement is incredible. His, sure, you can, you can, you can critique his tendencies to play a bit more passive and not be aggressive and force the issue. Sure, now we're talking tennis. But to sit up here and just unequivocally say, he's just not that good to me just doesn't make logical tennis sense. And now it feels like you're allowing your feelings about him off the court to cloud what you see on the court. Because there's no way you, you can sit there and watch him on TV or in person and watch him and go, yeah, this guy. This guy isn't that. He's just not that good. Like, his track record speaks for itself.

[JW]

I mean, on the one hand, like, yeah, most people would sell their firstborn for the year he had. On the other hand, like, and he's, he's really, I, I feel, like, admirably candid about his, his year. I mean, he's, look, look, I don't know what the quote is. Incredibly, you know, unsatisfying year. We should be able to say, yeah, you know, this guy served for a major title and he couldn't close. This guy's been to a sort of other. He doesn't have a major, but he's still really freaking good. And I also think we don't give him enough credit a for recovering from.

[Chris Eubanks]

That injury the way, man, great point, jw.

[JW]

Yeah, also, we talked about Sabalenka. This guy's had some pretty severe yips as well that he's managed to overcome. So I, I, I think, look, I think we can't always say, hey, he's number three in the world. Imagine being the third best at it. Like, I think we should leave space to say, yeah, there's some goals that are unfulfilled.

[Andy]

100%.

[JW]

Yeah. Even by his own admission, I'm sorry, like, to have a major by now, but to denigrate the guy's entire career because he hasn't won a major is absurd. And I think of all, he's really realistic, he's really pragmatic, and he says, like, look, I'm not satisfied by being number three in the world. I should have more. And I think we take a cue from him at some level. But in. In a weird way, he is. He's both the best player not to have won a major, and I also think at the same time, he's kind of underrated. And his record not just getting to Turin every year, he's won it twice. You know, Nadal won zero. He's. He's like against the eight best players in the world I don't have in front of me. He's. He's like 18 and 10 or something when he gets to Turin. So this is, you know, strange to think in terms of hall of Fame for a guy that's never won a major. But this is at once a sort of a guy we say is the best never to have won a major. And also almost criminally underrated in what he has done for the last decade.

[Andy]

Listen here. Great point. And let's just be very simple about this. Is he squeezing too tight because he wants a major so badly?

[Chris Eubanks]

Probably.

[Andy]

Sure. Does that mean he's not a great tennis player? Does that mean we take away from the volume statistics of his career the fact that he's one Olympic and he's one Olympic gold, like he's won World Tour finals, two of them. Does it live in the same universe where. Yes. Did he. Would he tell you that he was nervous and might have choked away a Grand Slam at the US Open? I'm guessing he would probably tell you yes at some point in his life. And does that mean he's not the best player to have never won a major? Does that mean, you know, he's not the clear. You know, if there's, you know, a lot of space between Sinner and Alcaraz, he's always that next guy. Like, he's always consistently. If Medvedev had a moment, like. But he's been there for a decade. To simply sit there and say he's not that good is offensive to every tennis player on the planet, in my opinion.

[Chris Eubanks]

It's like, geez, well, what's the rest of us look? Absolutely. So if you're looking at this guy, and even you mentioned the yips on the serve, I think the year he served for the U.S. open was the year he was going through the yips on his serve. So he made the final and still put himself in the position because he started serving practically two first serves like it was a joke. That's. I think that after that, his percentage started to go crazy high. But like, to make a Grand Slam final serve for it while still not having full confidence in your biggest weapon and Then you're like, yeah, the guy just. He's just not it, you know, I'm like, come on, man. Like, let's be real about if we're going to critique the sport and the athlete and their performance on court, let's be real about critiquing the athlete on the court.

[Andy]

Yeah, I agree. So our takeaways are that Alcaraz and Sinner are going to be all time greats. If you sit there and say Zverev is not that good, I kind of dismiss anything you say after, afterwards. I just don't really buy into that. I don't. You've lost me. You've lost me. Like, he's not that good because of feelings. Like, I don't like. No. And tennis is really hard. And I think we disrespect all of tennis when we pretend like it's easy. I don't think that's the story that we need to be telling in tennis. Eubanks. You know what is easy is you doing broadcasting. You should do it full time. You're really good at it.

[Chris Eubanks]

I got a lot of free time on my hands, so I might take you up on that.

[Andy]

I appreciate you, buddy. I'll check in in the next couple days. I know we're going to see you here in Charlotte in a couple of weeks, so hopefully we can get together in person then. Enjoy your retirement. Lean into those comments. I'm sure 90% of them are fantastic. You're a beloved figure in this game, so appreciate your time. JW on the other side, we're reacting to some news. I think the press release is out, so we're so yeah. New tournament Director of the U.S. open, friend of the show, Eric Buterak on the other side. So good, so good, so good.

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[Andy]

All right. Welcome back to Served. It is my pleasure to introduce our friend Eric Buterack with a new title for the first time on this show, tournament director of the U.S. open. Eric, how's that feel when you hear that?

[Eric Buterack]

It feels pretty good. I. Yeah. Not quite sure how to feel about it exactly. I guess I was reminded by a friend recently that I kind of forgot about that this was a goal of mine at some point. I don't actually remember that. I'm more of a live in the moment kind of person. I did a TED talk once on trying to set small goals, so I don't remember this comment, but he said I did say it. Yeah, it's. It's super exciting. I just got to share the news with our greater U.S. open team, and I shared a point that I thought when I retired from playing professional tennis that that would be the most exciting thing I got to do professionally and really would never have imagined that there would be something equal, equally, or maybe even more fulfilling than being able to play 40 grand slams. And. And today it's kind of embarks on a. Just another continuation of that path, but super honored to get the role.

[Andy]

Well, I'll tell you, it's been well deserved. I know we have a pretty easy relationship. I think we deal in a pretty straightforward manner with each other. But you're someone. I always know that if I text, I'll get a text back. If I have a question, I'll get an honest answer. You'll tell me if you can do something. You'll tell me if something's not possible. I've always appreciated that. I think that's your reputation inside of the sport. Even if it's something like. And I think this was, you know, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it. But even the mixed doubles this year was a lightning rod of a topic for a while, and then it worked on, in my opinion, on a spectacular level. You're respectful, you're fair, you're balanced. But then it seems like you're also not scared to take a shot right. And throw the ball downfield. How much of the last 10 years has been an adjustment? Do you feel like you settled into your role pretty easily, or has it kind of been an adjustment over the last 10 years that's gotten to this.

[Eric Buterack]

Point, settling into the role easily? No, there's no Playbook. When you leave the tennis court and walk into an office, no one tells you how to read a budget report. No one teaches you how to CC someone properly on an email. And a lot of that was a lot of failings and tripping over my own feet in those early years. I hope that the honesty or trying to just be a good human can get you through those points. And I have a lot of people to thank at the Open, most notably Stacy, but, but many others as well who, who've stuck with me over the years and kind of showed me how to, how to try to do this job well, I guess when it comes to taking a big swing or even just the honesty with you, you know, I, I love tennis. Right. I love the sport. It's afforded me opportunities that I'm so grateful for. And so I think when you come at this stuff from a place of. I just want the US Open to be better. I want it to be a better event. I love sitting in the After Action Report where we went through 585 line items of things we want to do better next year because I see all those things and I want to be a part of making every one of those million fans who comes through the door or another millions more who watch it at home have, have a really special experience. When you come at it from that, I think it's a little easier to be honest and candid and try to do that as much as I can.

[JW]

I'd say too, that's easy to say, but your actions speak volumes. I feel like people don't necessarily know this about you. You were a really good doubles player, but you didn't play much singles. And I always thought you got a lot of heat from doubles players over the mixed format. But the response was, look, this is being done in the service of tennis, in the service of the event, in the service of tennis fans. This was not in your best interest necessarily, as a former doubles player. And I think the fact that you were adamant of, look, I'm sorry that this may be costing some doubles players, but this is what we need to do for the betterment of the sport is something tennis could use a lot more of. Let me ask you a quick question. There are cameras, of course, on the courts. There are not cameras necessarily in all of the back rooms and in the boardrooms. What's a tournament director do other than argue with agents about court assignments? Like, what are we missing here? What's the job exactly?

[Eric Buterack]

Yeah, that's a good question. It certainly varies and I've been lucky to have a front row seat of everything that Stacy does for the last nine years. And being right by her side and watching how she handles the day to day minutiae of meetings with different parts of the team throughout the day of making the schedule, which you made a nod to, which is super important. I love being in the scheduling room. I love trying to look at that puzzle and figure out how can we put on the best product for the fans that balances player fairness, what fans want to see not only in Arthur Ashe Stadium, but out on court 14 versus who needs a certain player to play early because they're going to be on in Tokyo versus someone who needs to be later because they need to be in Australia and really figure out how to make that puzzle work every single day. I love that aspect of it and that's a big part of the role. And then there's also some really big stuff that comes in. And I've watched Stacy navigate the COVID era, Serena's retirement, working with me on the mixed doubles reimagined format. It's a ton of communication. It's a lot of being available, as Andy said earlier. So it's a big responsibility and one that I won't take lightly.

[Andy]

So something I want to read to you, Eric. You've mentioned Stacy a couple times this interview already. And for those who don't know, we're talking about Stacey Alistair who was the tournament director. She texted me this morning. She said, good morning, Andy. I want you to know how proud I am of Eric to be our next US Open tournament director. My quote in our release is 100% my words and no comms teams involved. He's an amazing person, industry leader and, and a wonderful, wonderful husband and father. He said or she said. Stacy, former US Open Tournament director. How does that make you feel from someone who has largely been a mentor to you?

[Eric Buterack]

Yeah, she's. I mean like when you work for someone for a decade and especially the, the, the career that I had, I owe her so much. But mostly just the patience, you know, the, the, the, the constant trippings over my own feet as I tried to, to get things done or push new initiatives to kind of say either slow down and have you thought about this or hey, maybe you should consider doing it this way or go keep pressing. This is going to be uncomfortable, but keep going. Just the endless amounts of guidance and support and I know that won't end. Even though that she's technically no longer the td, she'll be a short phone call away.

[Andy]

So I know this is probably a lot to think about and take on, but I assume you're not someone who's normally short with thorough thought. As you look forward with this job, what is a part of it that stresses you out and what is a part of it that you know that you can impact in a positive way?

[Eric Buterack]

Well, I think the biggest part that stresses out and I had this feeling in Cincinnati, I was a term of director in Cincinnati for one year before the USTA sold. That is I'm used to being in the room, right, and one of the guys who has an opinion and there was a moment in Cincinnati as the TD when we had just an extended rain delay. We were going to have a short window to play some matches. We could move the night session over to Grandstand, get the matches played, but then we'd have to refund tickets and ATP was weighing in and WTA was weighing in in our house and you know, TV and all these different things. And then we had to make a decision. They all looked at me and I thought, oh crap. I used to be one of the guys with an opinion from the back. So I think switching into that seat when there is actually decisions to be made, will, will, you know, there's, there's, there's a pressure there, but also a level of excitement. But also with the US Open there's, there's such a strong team, you know, Kirsten Corio, a commercial director, Danny Zautzner who runs the facility. It's such a well oiled machine. I'm really just a cog in the wheel at this point.

[JW]

Let me, let me ask you. One of the things I loved about the mixed doubles was the, the fact that I, I don't think fans didn't necessarily, it was free that for the most part fans could come the week before the singles draw started and watch the best players and it cost $0 and $0.00 and then the tournament starts. And at some level I think that the US Open sort of a victim of its own success and the market is the market, but for a lot of people it's become really, really expensive, sometimes prohibitively so. As tournament director, have you thought about the sort of balance between the commercial interests and you know, we don't want to leave money on the table, but also making it more affordable and accessible to New York tennis fans.

[Eric Buterack]

Look, that's something that not only I think about, but that our whole team thinks about a lot and is debated. You know, the US Open mixed doubles was super successful. So much so that that free content we put on Louis, we could easily charge for that next year. And we had that debate already. And I think our plan is, you know, at this moment, it's not decided yet, but, no, we want to continue to offer that content for free. Maybe we'll charge on Ash like we did last year, but let's keep Louie. We need to keep something that is accessible for the fan to still come and experience the US Open. So it's hard because, like you said, that there is so much demand and there's times where, you know, the brokers will buy up all the inventory and it becomes almost out of our hands, and that becomes unfortunate that we can't even get the tickets to the actual tennis fan who deserves them. But where we can, we'll continue to try to lean in, and you've got my word that I'll push on that as much as we can.

[Andy]

So it's your. Well, I guess your second day. By the time people hear this, you will have been officially a determined director for hours at least. So I'm not going to beat you up today and ask you a whole bunch of stuff. Eric, I always appreciate your transparency. I know that'll continue. We talked on Thursday night and you told me, and I think you could realize that my instant reaction was one of happiness for you. I think it's a job that you will thrive in. I know you're not scared of a tough conversation. One of the things that I think people need to realize is decisions aren't made in an absolute context. Right. So he's talking about the rocket ship that has been the US Open, especially under Stacy's leadership versus accessibility and how to actually navigate those things. There's not an easy answer or a clear answer in all of those things. Do you anticipate being on kind of the front lines of frustration and is that something that stresses you out at all, or. It's just there's going to be a decision. I'm going to just try to take the next right step.

[Eric Buterack]

You know, when I got recruited to take this job, the player relations part of my job in 2016, I started, and Gordon Smith was the CEO at the time and kind of offered me the role. And, you know, I asked him the question because at the time, the relations with the U.S. open and players was not good. And. And it was a tournament that didn't. Didn't have, you know, great execution of all the player services, there was no one really to talk to when, you know, you had an issue. And he said, I want you to come and be that person. And I asked him the question. I said, but are you going to help me, you know, with budget, with. With, you know, when I have ideas, I want, you know, make sure that I have the opportunity to say yes. I just don't want to be a punching bag. And so he, he assured me of that. But also, there is a component to that job where you are a punching bag. Right? Players do come and they are upset about things. And I've tried my best over the past decade to. I don't go hide in a back office. You know, I'm always out and about. And when there's a horrific traffic jam and everyone's late for their matches and people are pissed, I'll go out there and stand in the, in the garden and sort of take it on the chin. If we made a bad decision on something and whether it's scheduling or practice, I try to meet it head on. So, yes, these decisions that I'll be a part of, maybe have more at stake. But I hope that people don't see me as someone that was hiding from the difficult issues for the past decade, because I've done my best to be out on the forefront as much as possible.

[Andy]

I agree with all of that. I don't think that's just lip service at all. And I got to think that most of tennis universe would say, even if we don't agree with things, maybe we would prefer it a different way. You're always there, you're always honest. You're always a steady hand. I'm ecstatic for you. Congratulations, condolences, all of the things for this job. You're welcome on absolutely any time. Open to our policy. We get something right, we get something wrong, we need to correct anything. You always have a microphone here to tell us what we need to know. Eric, I'm happy for you. Congratulations. New tournament director of the US Open.

[Eric Buterack]

Thanks so much for having me, guys. And thanks for all you guys do.

[Andy]

Cheers. Booty. Can I call him booty anymore? That's like a. You can't call him that, can I? Mr.

[Chris Eubanks]

Booty.

[Andy]

Mr. Booty.

[Eric Buterack]

I think it's gonna sit with me.

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[Andy]

Officer Booty.

[Chris Eubanks]

Sir Booty.

[Andy]

Sir Booty. There we go.

[JW]

All right.

[Andy]

Thanks, Eric.

[Eric Buterack]

No, I appreciate you guys making the time.

[Chris Eubanks]

Hey, cheers, bro.

[Andy]

Congrats again. All right, thank you. Eric Buterack, tournament director, for coming on just breaking news today. Jw like the booty ahead of time. And this. We filmed that segment before it was officially released. Same with Eubanks. What did you Think about Eubanks and then kind of walking that fine line between player, broadcaster, kind of outside looking in.

[JW]

Jw, I feel like we didn't appreciate this balance that he was going through where he's this ascending broadcaster, but he's also trying to, to get better as a player. But I, you know, I'm thinking one of the, one of the beauties of this podcast is that people listen to it all over the world. They may not have heard him on Tennis Channel or espn. And I think listening to him, you get a sense of the perspective, the curiosity, the humility, everything that has made him such a good broadcaster. If you've never heard him on tv, I think listening to him just now with us, you get a sense of why he is so special. And you know, he was very modest about it. You and I need to both kind of double team him and explain he has a skill set that as you say, could go way beyond tennis. I mean, if you could invest. If there were an IPO on broadcasters, I would like to get in on Chris Eubanks at the ground floor.

[Andy]

I wish there was an ipo because I think I said way back when I actually participated in social media, I think I said he's the best natural broadcaster I've ever seen from day one. I would have bought then and it'd.

[Eric Buterack]

Be great right now.

[Chris Eubanks]

Yeah, you've been saying that a lot.

[Andy]

It'd be fantastic. Mike, what do we got?

[Chris Eubanks]

So next week is a special Thanksgiving week, top 10 episodes. So top 10 matches of 20, 25. We've had a list.

[Andy]

I wonder what number one's going to be.

[Chris Eubanks]

I know, I, I have no idea, no idea what number one's going to be. Much like the ATP rankings are more excited for three through 10.

Yeah.

But we'll see. Go, go onto our social media handles and we'll and, and cast in your vote. We're going to close that up this week. We also have a special fan Q and A episode the first week of December and then we'll close out the year with our, our typical end of year recaps, our rankings, but we have some special episodes mixed in there.

[Andy]

Yeah, we're going to banks some good interviews as people are winding down their seasons. I think Eubanks is going to be in town so hopefully, you know, for him I want to do an episode like, okay, big five biggest forehands you've ever faced. And we both go like, just stuff like that where you know, kind of off season type type conversation. So a lot coming for you. But listen, our lists are going to be better if you participate in them.

[Chris Eubanks]

Yeah, and I know this off season's really long, so you just got to bear with us until tennis storms.

[Andy]

Yeah, we're going to have days to go on a tangent.

[JW]

Tuesday this year.

[Andy]

Hey, at least it's not Thanksgiving this year. Improvements, right? Baby steps. Yeah, it's baby steps. Anyways, thank you for listening to serve, jw. Thanks for. Thanks for getting on. And thanks again for bailing us out last week because we had nothing. Producer Mike, Techie, Sean. The whole team. I'm Andy, and we'll see you next week.