← Served with Andy Roddick
Served with Andy Roddick
ATP TOP 20: 2025 Recap & 2026 Predictions | Served with Andy Roddick
01:14:49
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- [00:00]
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A
Hey everyone. Welcome to Syrup. We are going to do our top 20 countdown recap. Something. Is that what it's called? I don't know. JW in the house. Mike is not. He's at a recital. But here we are. We're going to try to get through him without techie Sean behind the boards. Okay, so we did this last year basically pretty straightforward. We're going to go from 20 to 1 the ATP rankings. Next episode will be WT rankings. But this is ATP centric. What went right? What went wrong? And maybe take a little peek forward. Jw, you're in an office. That's great. You're not like on a plane this week.
- [01:41]
C
This is my last day of the year in the office. As you can hear, authentic New York street sounds behind me. Hopefully we'll be home for the rest of the year.
- [01:49]
A
I'll tell you, I did something last Wednesday that was really, really fun. I traveled to Miami and I had to do a little clinic and a little chat at the Junior Orange Bowl, 14 and 12 and under additions, which I played back in 1995 and ended up doing a clinic. I guess they didn't have many people show up last year and I don't know how many kids were there. It was hundreds of kids and we just ripped it for like an hour and a half and it was the best, best time. And I'm, I've never had this feeling before and I'm not in the business of, of saying names of, of phenoms just because I, I think the. No attention is needed at this point. I don't think I've ever had the feeling of seeing someone hit. Like, you hear these stories a lot, right? Where someone goes, oh, I saw this person when they were. I saw Alcaraz when he was 13 and I just knew. Right. I've seen kids are like oh that's really good, that's fantastic. But you don't know what's going to happen. I saw a young girl woman who is. Was in the draw and I'm pretty convinced I saw someone who I think is going to be number one in the world. First time I've ever felt that way. Yeah. Not going to, not going to throw it out there, but got to hit with her next to her. She was my partner for a little bit. So two things. The racket on ball skills were like impossibly good on a short hop. I was like sitting there, my jaw, I was having so much fun watching. And then you'd give them one little piece of advice like on a chip and they execute it perfectly and choose the right ball to do it on. It was awesome. It was so much fun. I had a great time. So that was my traveling for last week.
- [03:41]
C
You were. Oh man, wait. I love that.
- [03:43]
A
Yeah, I was awesome.
- [03:45]
C
A, that's a great story. B, thank you for not mentioning the name. The last thing I'm sure this teenager needs is Andy Roddick says that Susie Q is a future number one in my unpaid side hustle is Chris Everts publicist. Wonderful human being. Should we acknowledge this was the new Jimmy Ever Complex? Right. New stadium court.
- [04:06]
A
I think that's where the big, the big kids are playing. I this was at a separate. I think they don't, they don't all play 18s through 12s. I think they have separate venues. But you should shout out Jimmy. Chrissy. I took a lesson from Jimmy Everett in Fort Lauderdale when I was 8 or 9 years old and I was there watching my brother play national clay courts. So my story and affinity for the Everett family and Jimmy Everett go back a long ways as well.
- [04:32]
C
I love that. And as long as we're plugging here, Colette Lewis does a great job covering junior tennis. I just got her Orange bowl wrap up on the Zoo Tennis website if you like results and which of the teenagers broke through just now in South Florida Go to go to Zoo Tennis.
- [04:51]
A
It's really cool. I'll tell you one story that I told the kids, right? You're speaking to a bunch of kids like how do you grab their attention? How do you make it seem like they need to understand all the work that it takes and they also need to understand that this is something they can actually reach and grasp and get and become and all this stuff. So we were, you know, it was four courts. We were at the Biltmore Tennis Complex. There's four courts. And we were all the way over to. Left behind the. The. This old pro shop, right. Looked the exact same as 30 years ago. They were setting up for their player party dance was which is the exact same place I saw Kim Kleistors break the ice with some Belgian shuffle back in 1995. Anyway, so I tell. It's like, listen, every country has like their guy that could win the tournament. I was not that person. I was tiny and it just wasn't going to happen for me. I was there to participate and get some reps in. And our guy was Dave Martin who ended up playing, you know, doubles on tour, played at Stanford. But you know, Dave was like number one in the country in 16s and went down to play 14's Orange bowl to try to win the world championship. So seated like two. I'm pretty sure Dave already had a beard at that point. But the way junior tennis works is you get back from like you. There's a 90 chance that we got back from Subway because that's all we ate then, which I don't know. I don't know if you've been to one recently. Didn't age well. But anyways, so we, we get back and all of a sudden people go, Dave Martin is lost the first set to a qualifier. And so all of us rush over to that court, right? We're like, this is. This is like a bigger upset than Lake Placid, right?
- [06:27]
C
This is.
- [06:29]
A
There's no way that Dave Martin could be losing, especially to a qualifier. So we get over there, Dave wins the second set. We're watching the entire third set. Dave starts losing. He's playing this skinny little dude like crap. Guys just chopping him up, right? Like it's just craziest thing. So Dave loses and that's the first time I ever saw Roger Federer play was when he beat Dave Martin on the. On that way you were going with. Yeah, so I told, I told the kids that. They're like no way we're in qualys right now. I'm like, well it with my own eyeballs. And I didn't realize it was. I was witnessing my future with Dave Martin losing to Roger Federer in that match. Anyways, let's get to the top 20. JW, just give us your thoughts. A little bit of a rundown. Tommy Paul obviously played great. I think his upward trajectory consistently has built himself into just a really, really good complete Tennis player. It felt like the last six months of the year he was fighting something and it became, it was hurt and then something else was hurt and it kind of became at least it felt like a little bit of chicken or the egg. I think all we hope for for him next year is that a get a clean run of health. This is someone who's been in the last four of a Grand Slam. Well rounded player, super smart, great athlete. 20. You can't really say it doesn't feel like a backtrack. I think a lot of, I guess his ranking regression is, is, is because of health. Right?
- [07:53]
C
So, yeah, that's exactly what you said. I think he, you know, there was an adductor injury during the clay and then there was another injury at Wimbledon. And you've said this before and I think it's a point that we don't make enough, that when you're a little bit dinged up, there are these compensatory injuries and you end up, you know, aggravating an ankle because you're changing your, your weight and your threshold on your knee. I think, I think there might be some of that.
- [08:16]
A
Yeah.
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C
I mean, Tommy Paul, fine player, nice first half of the year. Then the injury started and it really, I think, you know, he ends up number 20, but that's not really a reflection of where he is. And you hope he's just rested and ready to go in 20, 26 and.
- [08:30]
A
He'S one of those guys you, you look at and watch. He's made the semis of Australia. He won the junior French Open. He made the semis of Rome I think this year before it started going downhill. He's one queens club so well versed on every surface. As good a transition game in tennis this side of Alcaraz, right? His ability to kind of take time away, kind of use his volleys, use his quickness, use his athleticism. I always really enjoy watching Tommy Paul problem solve and I hope TP is healthy this upcoming year and hopefully we'll talk more about his tennis than his injuries in next year. I'm curious to hear your take and where you stand on Jakob mensik, who finishes 19 in the world this year. Obviously the result, Miami accounts for almost half of his points for the entire year. You know, he was four between 40 and 50 going into Miami. Obviously puts a thousand on the board. That changes a lot. Rest of the year, round 15. I think we expected him to kind of use that as like gasoline for the fire if you take that result out. Ranking says he's still 40 or 50. And I know it's a hypothetical. You can't take away people's best result. I understand it. Is he a guy who's 40, JW, or is he a guy who's 10?
- [09:50]
C
Oh, and there's nothing in between. I, you know, he's a guy who's 20 years old. So let's, let's let him sort of ease into this and reveal a little more of himself with each year. Yeah, I mean, I think there was one standout result in that Miami tournament. Again, you know, the guy stared down Novak in the final and I think we all said, oh my gosh, here comes another star. And more of these, this Czech conveyor belt continues to do its thing. This, this country of 10 million people in a pretty rotten tennis climate keeps pumping out players. And then here comes this big tall kid. I really, I got to know him a little bit at Wimbledon. Steve Weisman and I talked to him a few times and he caught himself to play drums during COVID There's a real sort of likability to him. But the result, the results really tailed off. And we, we see this, I mean, we see this part of being a professional tennis player is pacing yourself and you get the feeling he just sort of ran out of steam a little. So nothing that even came close to replicating that Miami result at the same time. We knew his name. This was a nice player. He played in the, the, you know, the, the gen. I keep calling Gen X the next gen. Um, I, I don't, I mean, I, Is he a top 10 player? I think so. I mean, I'm, I'm not sure this.
- [11:01]
A
Guy'S winning, but it's just, yeah, there's time. He's 20 years old, one in Miami. His first serve was like alarmingly good. Right? Like the, the, the, the, the tail he was getting on it. I mean, the, the, the stats he was putting up a little hit or miss. I, I, I got to think they're, they're working on whether it's, whether it's, you know, footwork based or whatever it is. It seems like the air counts run a little high with, with Mencheek.
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C
Right.
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A
And you can be streaky, but streaky goes both ways. Like you're streaky and get through a game, you still just won one game, you're streaky the other way and you're down love 30 or love 40. Right. He still has that kind of early miss type thing where all of a sudden, for no reason at all, you're serving out of trouble at love 30 qualifier at the US Open loss. I mean there, there are some, some losses where you figure, okay, with another year of maturity, you got to get through those ugly days.
- [11:57]
C
Right?
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A
And that's what the top players do so well. Right. We'll get to, you know, this Vera and the Medvedevs later in the show, but what they do is they can take way less than the best we've ever seen them survive, advance, and then all of a sudden they're in like a quarterfinal. I think that's the next progression for someone like a men cheek is just finding that consistency and finding way to where if your game's in the gutter that day, let's start grabbing ankles and pulling your opponent into that gutter too. Right. It doesn't have to look perfect, but let's, let's find a way to play down. But Karen Hatchin off. We know what he is like in uber professional, has big results, feels like he's better in the best of five format than maybe the best of three. But what are we seeing? I mean if you, if you kind of turn back the clock a year, you're going Hatching off finishes at 18, you're going, okay, yeah, let's. Like, like the plus minus is five. There is that, is that, does that sound about right?
- [12:51]
C
Yeah, I, you know, I don't think he had nearly as good a year as he did in 2024. And you're right, this is someone who, you know, he, he doesn't, doesn't play as big as he is. He's had some great results in majors and it just, it seemed like, you know, there were some flashes this year and he got to the finals in Canada. I'm looking here. He played, played a lot of tennis. He played almost 60 matches. But it just, you know, he, he is what he is consummate professional. I'm not sure sort of what the, the ceiling is here. And now he's, he's in his late 20s. I, I'd say he'd probably say this is a, you know, a B minus, B year. I mean it wasn't a, wasn't a disaster. But there's, I'm looking at these. I mean, there's no runaway results. He did not replicate his, his know, second round at the Open. This guy's been to the, to the semis in the Open before. So I, you know, at some level, I wonder if we're at the point now that we got a lot of data points on this guy and he, he is what he is. He's a very nice player. He's a professional. He's liked by his colleagues. He'll make a deep run occasionally in a major. I don't know if this is someone who's going to threaten the sinner Alcaraz duopoly that we'll get to, but one of these nice, nice guys to be part of the cast.
- [14:02]
A
I think my problem is when I'm looking at, at some of these players is like, Hatchinoff is a great player. I don't know that he's someone that is going to randomly carry a night session that's televised during a second round at a tournament. Not a lot of holes in his game. Serves big. I remember when he first came up, he took Rafa to five at the US Open. And I went, oh, watch out. Like, this guy's upper 130s register. So we'll see. You know, is there still a lane where he can improve and have, you know, another 2, 3, 4 year run TBD? I don't know that there are any secrets now about his game. He's been around long enough to where, you know, you're not scratching your head on where to be effective and what needs to happen in that matchup. But listen, the guys, one thing we'll never do on this show is pointed someone 18 in the world who maybe underperformed their expectations and say, you know what?
- [14:57]
C
You suck. Yeah, give it up.
- [14:59]
A
Like, I mean, the guy's a great player. I mean, he just is Yuri Lahechka. So I'll tell you when I'm right. I had, I had him going towards the top 10 this year. Didn't quite happen. Had a nice little run at Queens Club. It's still someone that I just feel like when a top player sees him in the draw, doesn't. Doesn't want to play this guy. Like, the eye test is. Is big. Maybe it's just. Maybe we're just kind of defining what the difference is with these first four guys. The difference between 20 and 5 is doing it every week.
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C
I mean, I think there's a bigger theme that I'm sure will hit, which is there are two guys who are head and shoulders above the rest of the field. And there are a lot of players like Lahashka who are very fine players. I think he's sort of still in the dangerous category. I mean, I'm not sure we're talking about a future major winner, but I think he's one of these any given day players, sort of another player from this Check system. And he, he didn't seem mean. He's one of these guys that we all sort of know about, and we all know what he can do on a given day. I'm not sure he's evolved out of this dangerous floater, you know, and in as much as a guy who's in the top 20 is a floater. But, you know, I, I don't think he's emerged from this kind of dangerous on a given day. But is he a threat to win big events? I'm not quite sure that's there yet.
- [16:16]
A
Andre Rublev had made World Tour Finals every year for what felt like forever 16 in the world. You show him that, he's going, you know what, That's a, that's probably a step backwards this year.
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C
Yeah, we were waiting for the, the, the Murat Saffin bump never came. You know, Rublev plays an opponent and he also plays against himself. We've talked about that. I, you know, you hate to sort of. It's, it's one year. He did have a couple of nice results flecked in there. 28 years old. Is, Is he going to get back in the top 10? What do you think?
- [16:50]
A
I don't see why he can. I mean, he is capable of, of, of big results. Right. I mean, the one thing I hope for him, because this whole thing, he's never been in the semis of a Grand Slam. I just don't want that leading the conversation when you start defining his career whenever it's over. Right. So I do want him to make that run, make that last four at a Grand Slam event because of the respect that I have for him as, as a player. Right. Is he imperfect emotionally?
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C
Sure.
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A
Who's not? We all are. Does he handle it perfectly? No. Can he rip your face off with both sides of the ball? Yep. Can he go full rip city forehand and back in? Yep. Do we want to see Safin go crazy? Yep.
- [17:34]
C
We like this combo. No, I, and I think just big, big picture. We talk. Sometimes the wheels come off. That is not this case. You know, the guy won 34, 35 matches. He's still in the top 20. He's been at the upper echelon for, for a full decade now. I mean, let's. This year did not meet his standards. I mean, he did not come anywhere close to even having this conversation about getting into the, to, to a semifinal because he didn't play particularly well at majors either. Remember the, the match against Fonseca to kick off his year in Australia? And you Got the sense he sort of got to the end of that match and said, oh, boy, here's, here's someone else I'm going to deal with. But I still think, you know, the guy's a solid top 20 player. Let's not sort of lose sight of.
- [18:15]
A
That over under his current ranking next year at this time.
- [18:20]
C
Health being the variable, I think given his advancing age, I think this is about, I don't know.
- [18:28]
A
He's going to go higher.
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C
I'm going, I'm going. Margin like 12 to 14. I mean, I'm not sure.
- [18:34]
A
Yeah, I'm going, I'm going. I'm taking the under on. He's going to be better than 16, I think, a year from now. I just, I just do. Maybe that's just what I hope for, because hopefully that means he made the semis and stayed healthy.
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C
And stayed healthy.
- [18:46]
A
Exactly. Which I want for him. Speaking of health and lack of it, Holger runa in at 15, and this one makes you a little sad. You know, I, I, I've, I've talked about Runa's game and sometimes I watch and it's confusing and all that doesn't matter. When you see someone suffer a major injury like Holger did, you know, all the preferences when we're talking about style of game and temperament. And if you have a thought about it or if you're critical about something, who gives a shit at this point? We just want him to be healthy. Right. An Achilles rupture when you're 22, 23 years old, fighting to be kind of on the upswing. And, you know, a guy who's been four in the world obviously has that upside. That's not anything anyone wants to see. I think empathy takes over for any criticism at that point.
- [19:37]
C
This is, this is really unfortunate. You sort of, we've seen Achilles injuries in other sports, basketball in particular, and I think you hope he makes a full recovery. And if he does, the guy's got 10 more years of Runway.
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A
If I, if I'm coaching someone who's going through the exact same thing, I want them projecting all of the energy that Holger is projecting right now. That's what I want. That's what I'd be trying to sell. And also, it's a major traumatic lower leg injury at 22 years old. Right. So we can sell it as we want. And I hope he gets back, and I hope we don't even remember it. Kobe Bryant was able to do it. Kevin Durant was able to do it. It can be done. It is a major injury and we don't often see it in people this young. We are going to have Holger on before the Australian Open to kind of come in, give us an update on his injury, where he's actually at, have a conversation, maybe a retrospective on career to date, and then listen, he wants to come in and break down some of these current players, which is certainly, you know, we're at the point.
- [20:43]
C
He does.
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A
I'm telling you, we're at the point now where I played Novak and that's kind of it, right? I need. I need to know how, you know, I think sometimes us talking heads can only know so much without feeling. Feeling what, you know, a slice from a certain person feels like or, you know, the ball, you know, of sinner tumbling towards us. I'm excited that, that he's coming on and that he kind of wants to try on the. The analyst hat. So we're going to have him on. I think it's the 13th or that one of those two. The Tuesday show before Aussie Open. I think something that I think is very important to this show is to get more current players on. Francis was nice to come on last week. I'm looking forward to having Holger on and I'm sure we're going to stress test a lot of those opinions that he has about his recovery. But props to him for, for doing and saying everything possible early on in this. This recovery. Obviously, he's not going to be ranked 15 at the end of the year, so we'll save ourselves from that projection. I think a win is next year at this time saying, you know what, I'm healthy enough and aiming for Australia in 27. So happy recovery to Hogaruna and we'll get him on the show in about a month. Davidovich Fokina, listen, you're an insane person if you just don't want this guy to win a tournament, right? 14 in the world has done amazing work. Is crazy in all my favorite ways. You just don't know what's going to happen. You know, he's going to come out and hit 40 winners one day. The next day is like you just don't know what's going to happen. I'm here for it. I like it. I want him to break through and win a tournament. I think it's been talked about so much that he thinks about it too much. Obviously, there are way less capable players who have won in a tour event. He is better than most of the tour. What say you, John? Wertheim with Davidovich Faquina.
- [22:32]
C
Let me ask you a sort of a philosophical question. How much does a tournament title really mean? I mean, this guy, he won in front of me. It's like 45 matches. What do you win? 4, 44 matches. He's passed $10 million in career prize money. We know how good he is. He's played deep into me. I mean, there's so much to like here. Do we. I mean, this. I'm painting the jury here. But if he wins Almaty, he wins some 250 and he no longer is. It's like Anna Kournikova, but I mean, who should we really care if he. If he wins a 250 and this is no longer his label, does it really change anything materially?
- [23:06]
A
Okay, I'll, I'll. I'm with you. I agree with most of what you're saying. And nothing tour based will change. If he goes and wins a tournament, nothing will change. And it's on his mind. He talks about it very openly. So for his brain and his mental faculties and everything going on in there, to get over that hump and win a tournament is a big deal. Like, it will be a big deal for him. And in a career retrospective, you know, would you rather be 70 in the world and have won a Tour title or 14 in the world and be divided without a tournament title? Probably 14 in the world. I don't know. You got a clear patch of the round of 16. That's some good cash, you know, at Slim. So I think your, your point is well taken. And also when the tour is just getting taller and taller and taller and taller. This guy's doing a great job. I mean, it's not easy. He's a guy who's 6 foot 6. He still hits a big ball.
- [24:08]
C
Nice wheels too, right?
- [24:09]
A
Big, weird, those calves. Ooh, that's a big. These top three calves, I'll tell you that much right now. Those things can flex, you know, is fully. Is still fully committed to the sock thing. He has. He doesn't. He doesn't have a matching pair of socks still. I think we like.
- [24:24]
C
We like quirk.
- [24:25]
A
I do like characters. I like quirk. I like it when people go crazy. I like it when they have a little sock thing. I like it when you, you know, you go from the shaved head to the short one back to. I don't know. I do. I like him. I don't know him from anyone. I've never met him. I don't think. And I want him to win a tournament, I will be very happy for him. I don't know why I'm so invested in it. I just think he's too good not to have won it. And I like his crazy. I hope he wins. That's my wish. One of my. If I get 10, if I had a top 10 wish list for 20, 26, I'll burn one of them on Almaty. Whatever you said, wherever he's going to win.
- [25:06]
C
All right, here comes a segue. Speaking of Almaty, would you burn a top 10 wish on the number 13 player?
- [25:12]
A
A top 10? Well, I'll tell you this. So the 13 player great segue is Daniil Medvedev. Right. And so we need to give some credit to. Obviously he didn't play as well. I talked to him for a while and I asked him, I go, can I talk about this on ears? Typical Medvedev, I don't really care what you talk about.
- [25:30]
C
Great.
- [25:31]
A
Okay, so we talk. And I think he was just trying to, you know, I dropped down and then kind of made a run back to the top three during my career. And you know, basically just, I think chatting through it with someone who maybe had been through similar struggles, had won a Islam, had been one. But obviously, you know, then all of a sudden these superheroes come along and it's a bit of an uphill battle. So let's give credit where credit's due, right? And I think a lot of people maybe correctly say that I go soft on Mehdi when he goes nuts. I find it highly entertaining. And also I have a lot of respect for someone who can like tell you two days later, yeah, I probably went too far. But I will tell you, after the US Open, he's dropping out of. He's drops out of the top 20, right? Hasn't been winning anything, not back to back matches. Has been, you know, fully on struggle street goes and makes the semis in Shanghai, puts together some results to get himself back into the top 16. So his 20, 26 actually started post US Open, right? Putting himself in position to wear props. This is not someone, this is someone who could have very easily said, listen, I have this certain pedigree. He's going to be, you know, the volume stats, he keeps going like he's going, he's going to be a Hall of famer, you know, I think so, you know, so this is someone who could have very easily said, you know what, this year sucks. Fuck this. And he goes, nope, I'm going to lean into the struggle. Which is kind of like a microcosm of his entire game for his entire career.
- [26:55]
C
So that would have won one match at a major in 2025.
- [27:00]
A
And he's still 13, by the way.
- [27:02]
C
And he's still 13. And he, and he won that title. I, I mean, part of this is just you feel for him. He's too good. You know this. He's too good a player to be playing this level of tennis. It's nice to see the last 90 days sort of salvaged his year, as you say. I also think selfishly, this ought to be one of the guys who we mention when we talk about who's going to challenge these Alcaraz and Sinner. So nice to see him re entering this conversation. I mean, he isn't 30 years old yet. I think there's still some good tennis here. I just. He's got to put it together to major.
- [27:34]
A
I get banged up for being a Medvedev apologist. I also think there is something too. He's really well liked away from the court. Like the locker room really likes him. And I think I put a lot of stock into that reputational value. I. You know what? I think he's in the top 10. Like when we're. When you said he hasn't. You won one match at a major. I'm going, man, he's still, he still finished 13. He won one match in a major. Like that's.
- [28:00]
C
And that was, that was because the guy ranked like 400.
- [28:03]
A
Well, given the offset like, and we obviously are a show that just moved out of a garage, so we don't really have a research department past techie Sean feverishly just start banging his phone. But like one match in a major, 13, that might be like the highest ranking versus slam output offset. And it's not as if the guy can't play in Slams. He's one of. He's been in finals of, you know, three or four more. So I think Medi's back in the top 10 next year. I feel very confident after hearing your, your slam statistic, which I knew but hadn't it. It wasn't really baked in there.
- [28:35]
C
Let's do Casper. Where do we. We, we all like his professionalism. We all like him personally. We wonder. This, this is the old conversation, right? Does he have the weaponry? Nice. You know, he had one nice win on clay, but I, I would say a, a B to B minus year for him. What do you. What do you think?
- [28:56]
A
Yeah, I think that's right. I, I think weirdly, I think he did a couple things way better this year. I, I think he became less predictable on the back end. Kind of just rip and cross court. I think he mixed in the. Up the line a little bit. I think he went to chip returns a little bit more often. I think Casper knows. Listen, if I can have a great clay court season, right, guys made multiple French Open finals. If I can have a great clay court season and then sneak in a couple big results, I'm six or seven in the world. If I am inconsistent in the clay court season, even with the big result that he was able to have in Madrid and I don't sneak In a couple, two, three other big results, I'm 12 and I think that's the delta we're talking about. And we make it seem like it's a massive thing. I think it's four matches, you know, it's four or five, six matches over the course of a year. I don't know that he's playing to the eyeball test. I don't think he played much worse this year, you know, at all. But yeah, I mean, I. Listen, would it surprise you if he was in the finals of the French Open next year? Yes, but only because that means Sinner Alcaraz isn't. But like if he's in the semis. Semi doesn't surprise me.
- [30:03]
C
Yeah, exactly.
- [30:03]
A
If he makes a run to quarters. Semis. No, nothing surprising for Casper Rude at this point. It would shock me more if he was ranked 25 as opposed to 8 next year.
- [30:13]
C
Right. Yeah, I think sort of the 8, 8 to 12 range is probably where he belongs. And I, I think you also make a good point that we should spread, you know, not. Not all matches are created equal and we do a show like this and you sort of look and the rankings do not follow win totals. So you win the right matches at the right time and you can move up or down in, in the rankings. And yeah, I think you're right. I think capitalizing, I mean, you're right. You, you look at his results and Madrid, Madrid, great, great result. It's got to sting a little that he didn't back it up at Roland Garros, but I think you're right. If he does some real damage and clay, he sets himself up nicely. If he doesn't, it's going to be hard for him to, to be a top 10 player.
- [30:50]
A
Yeah, non negotiable for him. Being a top 10 player is damage at Master Series events and making a run to a semi, you know, every other time where he's been in that and, and credit to him, he's been a top five, top eight player for a long time, right?
- [31:06]
C
He's had a great, great career. This a Mac. This is a maximizer. This is not a disappointer.
- [31:10]
A
We're, we're, we're, we're preaching to someone who knows how to do this and has done it, right? So this is wasted breath. We're not saying anything that he doesn't know. When he looks in the mirror, I think he's. I think he's closer to eight than he is to, you know, dropping down further. Personally. Buck, what the heck? Where is he going to be next year? JW, this guy goes from 70 something. A good quote. Kind of goes with the confuse and conquer method when he's playing. And obviously he was going to turn his year in life around at Roland Garros this year, right? Like, that was the obvious thing. This is why I love tennis. Makes no sense.
- [31:44]
C
It makes sense to him either. And I think to his great credit, he's a. Like, I'm as baffled as you are. We all remember the story. He's outside the top 80, blows out of Wells and then, you know, blows off some steam in Vegas, and then he goes and wins the, the Weller Evans Open in, in. In Phoenix. And that starts to kickstart things. And then you ask him and he says, you know what? I don't even think I want to be a top player. He is a baffling, baffling guy. I get the feeling. Baffling to himself. The results are all over the map. I mean, whoever he's. He's taking down Demenor and Draper on clay, beating Sinner.
- [32:19]
A
I was. He had one of those.
- [32:22]
C
That Roland Garros. Let's, let's go find that run. That is one of the more stunning results you will find.
- [32:27]
A
He had one of those runs where it was like, oh, Demon. I'm like, oh, Demon will tough him out. Like, Demon in the extended format comes back from two sets down. Yeah, okay. And then Draper, like, we forget we're going to get to Draper next. But, like, Draper was maybe the third best player in the world for the first four months of the year. Like, Rip City was like, drive them down great on clay. That was the day that we shot the Andre interview was when Bublek and Draper were on. And Andre was like, I think Buck has a chance. I'm like, no, he doesn't. Guess what? Busy. Is he a top eight guy, JW, or is this. He's 11. He's the funniest story ever.
- [33:08]
C
He's, he's 11 and he's defending nothing until the big Phoenix Open. Again, your, your guess is as good as his.
- [33:16]
A
He's gonna get to the top 10 because he has nothing for the first three and a half months. But where does he end next year? If I give you over under top 20 Bublek next year?
- [33:26]
C
I think, no, I think he's outside the top 20. I just, but, you know, I, I, this sport in particular, you, you need a certain measure of, of consistency. And who, who the hell knows? But I, you know, this is a guy who's, I think big guy, deceptively athletic, can dial in that serve.
- [33:44]
A
And also, like, if he doesn't know what he's going to do, how the hell are you supposed to guard against.
- [33:48]
C
It goes to these matches sometimes and he says, you know, I don't think I'm going to hit too many second serves. And he's just hitting, you know, 132 seconds serve. I mean, it's so annoying. Great to have him in the cast.
- [34:00]
A
Great.
- [34:01]
C
I love characters like crypto. We love characters.
- [34:08]
B
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- [34:34]
C
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- [35:05]
A
Crazy Draper Draper is. It's just health. And this one disappointed me because he felt like a guy through the first four months with what he did to Carlos at Indian Wells and then playing Madrid on clay and translating and making a final there, and you felt like rude, kind of stuck around until he was able to edge him out in that final. But you're looking at this guy going, oh, this in also the US Open semi the year before, right? And that's, you know, we lost the center. It's like, is this one of the Guys that can actually interrupt this stranglehold. And he felt like that guy for the first four or five months of the year. When he is in full flight. He looks the part of someone who's a top 34 player right now. How does that translate over time? Can he get his body healthy? We thought he was going to come back for the US Open. Shoulder not quite there. I hope he stays healthy because what he showed for that pocket of, you know, September, late August through May24, going into 25 was very exciting for the sport of tennis.
- [36:10]
C
He finished in the top 10. He won one match after Wimbledon.
- [36:15]
A
Yep. Did a lot of work.
- [36:18]
C
That tells you a what kind of a first half of the year he had. But also you just worry about the health and this is the anti bublek. I mean this is someone who is very much attuned with how he is going to minimize volatility and how he's going to do everything in his power to improve and it's diet and exercise and health and he's very involved in his rehab and just the recovery hasn't been there and it's not because this guy's blowing off his, his, his rehab. So at, at full health. This is a top five player. He's already proven that.
- [36:53]
A
I agree.
- [36:53]
C
I just worry, I mean he's, he, he lost in the, he lost him to Marin Chilich in the second round of Wimbledon, played one match at the US Open, won that and then didn't post for round two. And that was in late August.
- [37:10]
A
And there's going to be concerning. People need to understand how the rankings work too. 52 week ranking. So he stacked all of his points in the first five months of last year. So when you see his ranking potentially go from 10, let's say actually plays well at Indian Wells and makes the quarters or the semis, he's going to be underwater with that result based on points coming off Right. So I think this ranking will probably get worse before he's able to kind of make a charge towards, towards better. But I just wanted this story to continue this year and unfortunately health got in the way. I hope that at some point we get to back to that level that we saw at Indian Wells because that was really exciting and I don't know that it was a stretch to say this guy looks like a disruptor and could potentially have the firepower to do it. So I hope he gets healthy. Another person was certainly the firepower to be a disruptor. Ben Shelton and I talked to Brian Shelton, Ben's dad A couple of weeks ago, you know, just kind of going through, you know, I don't know if my opinions are right or wrong, but just kind of going through his game. And I told him, I said I was heartbroken for Ben at the US Open because the thing that you want as a pro tennis player is to get to the point where you build, build, build, build, build, and then you are pretty close to positive about what your output is going to be on a given day. And Ben had gotten to that point by winning Canada. Every time he stepped on the court, you knew that it was going to be a pretty good product, right? Like, there wasn't the peaks and valleys, the consistency was there, you know, learning how to manage the game and all that stuff. And then, you know, it kind of was, you know, injury again, which in that, that second round or second, second round, I think, at the U.S. open. And I was just heartbroken because it takes months and months and months and years and years and years to get to the point where that output is predictable. And you look like a top five guy. Ben had that. He had gotten to that point and then injury interrupted it. I was really excited about his prospects at the US Open before. Before that injury. John.
- [39:22]
C
Yeah, I mean, that was a disappointing day and concerning as well. I mean, you figure this, this is a pretty bad injury. If he's ripcording at the US Open at the same time, I think darn good year overall. And I think some of this was a result, obviously, the Canada was sort of the highlight. He won 40 matches. He won on all surfaces. He came back and won some after that, that injury. And I think if we're looking at this career longitudinally, he's 23 years old. He's no longer just throwing heat. I mean, he's really becoming a much more nuanced player. The results of majors are going to disappoint. But I think, on balance, I think this was a very solid year, and I think there are a lot of positive takeaways. I also think sometimes you hear, you see fathers in particular coaching players, and you sort of say, oh, boy, he's, you know, this, this thing is not going to go away till this thing's not going to get better. Brian Shelton is a proper, proper coach. This was a top 50 player. This is a guy who really studies the sport. This is not the guy who's there for the badge and the players lounge.
- [40:24]
A
This is, this is not the father coach who has the job because he was the father coach when the person was like 11 Brian Shelton was a top 50 player, made deep run, I think, fourth round at Wimbledon. My favorite stat is that I think he's the only person ever to coach a women's team to an NCAA title and a men's team to an NCAA title. So talk about knowing the information, being able to deliver it to different styles, different types of play. Oh, and by the way, my son got up to six in the world under my tutelage as well. So Brian Shelton is the real deal. I actually think he would be a phenomenal episode. I would love that one. At some point I'm going to say this about our next guy. Musetti finishes at eight in the world. I think we've become used to Musetti now the last couple of years. He was someone you looked at on a fast surface two years ago, certainly three years ago, and went, no chance. You were like, no, like, he's not going to be like. He was the guy who was ranked 30 and then Bublek would play him when bublock was ranked 90. And you go, oh, booblook's going to run through this on a fast court. Like, that's just the way it worked. He turned everything around in the summer of 24, Queens final, Wimbledon semi, and has kept it right. We've had enough cautionary tales of people who have a couple of big results and then kind of fade back to the mean. Not, not dissimilar like Menshik we mentioned. And he has his whole career ahead of him, so, uh, it might not even matter, but he took that progress and has completely made himself into a different player. Clay fast, kind of always there. Does he have, you know, the big enough weapons on serve to challenge Carlos or Yannick and the big, I don't know, but who does? But point being, he took this kind of liability on faster surfaces. Anything outside of clay. He looked like one of the old school clay court specialists to me. For a fair amount of his early career, Guy has learned how to be effective on every service. Massive props and respect for that.
- [42:29]
C
I don't know what the ceiling is. It's a top eight player and he didn't win a single tournament. But I think you're right. I think it's a little like, yeah, Holy fokina. Exactly. But the, you know, it's also, it's only, you know, he's, he's got kids and we've known his name for a while. Remember, it was a teenager. He took two sets off Novak at Roland Garrett. He's 23 years old, so he's still figuring out this riddle as well. I think you're right. It's, it's a little, I don't know, it's not a perfect analogy, but it's a little like Paolini, where there was sort of this revelatory year and it was sort of like, okay, how. What's the next step? Can you sustain this? Will you be here next year? And here he is, still in the top eight, winning a lot of matches. No tournaments, but a lot of matches.
- [43:13]
A
He's sneaky. Younger than we all think, too, because he's been like, when you start winning matches when you're 17, 18 on tour and we know your name, and then, you know, five, six years pass and we think you're 29, but you're actually, what is he, 23, 24, something like that.
- [43:25]
C
Like the kids pictures. Throws us off every time.
- [43:28]
A
Yeah, but it, but it's true. Like he's made, you know, we call 25 year olds up and comers now, and he's made a lot of progress with his game and he's still, you know, pretty young. Props to him. Was happy to see it. Alex demenour. I went on a rant this year after he got run out of the building by sinner in Australia. And everyone's like, yo, man, this guy. I'm like, shut up. Like, you talk about someone who maximizes. You talk about someone who, when you listen to him talk about tennis, you never, you never say, well, that was dumb. Never. Total Matt, like, doesn't serve huge, is effective off the baseline, knows how to play. And still in World Tour finals, he's frustrated because, you know, that, that steel ceiling of, of, of the big guys, I don't know if it's something he'll ever break through. And I don't know that my respect could grow for, for this guy in the way that he goes about his, his business. You know, health was a bit of an issue this year, but like, he's the kind of guy that maybe Carlos and Jannik aren't stressed by seeing in the draw. And then I promise you, anyone outside of the top 10, seeing his name, most weeks you're like, this sucks. I don't want to have to deal.
- [44:47]
C
With this guy won 56 matches this year.
- [44:51]
A
He's a fucking animal. Guy is an animal.
- [44:55]
C
Week in, week out, every week, on any surface, every week. And I think you're right. I mean, look, he also, he's very open about this sort of. He, he knows what the deal is and he knows what the challenge Is and are you a guy who makes quarterfinals and wins the odd title and wins a lot of matches or are you really going to be a competitor against these two guys? I mean he sort of knows what the challenge is and I would submit that, you know, it's great to sort of have a, have a game plan and know what the objective is and if he gets there, great. And if not, and he's merely a guy who WINS More than 50 matches reliably every year. There's nothing to be ashamed of with that either.
- [45:32]
A
He's also like when we look back the Australian tennis culture, right and we think of like the all time great guys, the Emersons, the Lavers, the rose walls. Like you will not find better people, competitors, humans into rafters and listen late and I Ash Barty. Yeah, Ash Barty Leighton and I got into a million fights and also I the maybe the best competitor I've ever played. Nice to see someone who kind of pays homage to the back generations of Aussie players by putting on their hard hat and going to work doing it the right way. Props to Alex Demenor.
- [46:22]
C
Dinkum as they say.
- [46:24]
A
Dinka mate. Yeah, all that one Taylor Fritz end of last year, four six. You know, this really comes down to breaking through against Alcaraz and center and this is going to be a common theme, right? He's getting to those points and slams most of the time now. Or Novak at the U.S. open, right. Hasn't, hasn't beaten Novak yet. You know, is, is, is a tough matchup against center and Alcaraz, tough for setter at Wimbledon in the semis. But he's there like it's not hard to be top four or six in the world and he's kind of doing it every year now. Like that's not nothing at all.
- [47:06]
C
It's a big deal and sort of a strange season. Some sort of ups and downs. Did not win a hardcore title and yet still hit that 50 win threshold. Did he win a hardcore title? I thought he won a maybe I'm wrong.
- [47:21]
A
I might have been the year before. Anyways, go ahead.
- [47:22]
C
I know he had, you know, in a weird way and I don't think, you know, listen, he gets to the final of the 2024, the last major of 2024 doesn't come close to that in 2025. I think by his standards it's not a disastrous dire situation. It probably didn't quite live up to his expectation. I also thought Taylor Fritz sort of revealed himself to the tennis public this year. He's really smart, he's really funny, he's really informed, he has opinions and his take and he sort of became this moral leader. So I'm not sure there was a break. Results wise, he's still a top six player, but I think in a weird way he sort of changed his standing in the tennis world. Having strong, informed, intelligent opinions, I realize doesn't buy you ranking points, but I think sort of as a composite, Taylor Fritz, in a weird way, was a revelation this year.
- [48:14]
B
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- [48:44]
A
This episode is brought to you by Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels and music are made for each other. They share a rhythm in the craft of making something timeless while being a part of legendary nights. From backyard jams to sold out arenas, there's a song in every toast. Please drink responsibly. Responsibility.org, jack Daniels and Old no. 7 are registered trademarks. Tennessee whiskey, 40% alcohol by volume. Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. And this one, as you're kind of getting ready for a show and going through the rankings, FAA finishing the year at 5. He lost was it to center at, at Cincinnati like oh and two and he was like barely top 30 in the world like struggling for like maybe two years. Ish. And finishes at five. Right. What, what does this mean going for 20, 26? Because we have seen Felix, who by the way is another just like citizen, right? Like an absolute proper gentleman. But like what does this mean? Because we've seen him get on the heater indoors before to close a year out and I don't know that it always translates into the next year. Will it translate this year?
- [49:54]
C
JW I think it has to. And some of this is he, he won 50 matches this year. I, I believe more than half of that. Oh sure. Came post Canada for sure. I mean I think he literally, I think, I think it was 20. Let's, let's, let's actually do a little research here. I believe in real time. I believe he was 28 at the US Open.
- [50:13]
A
Yeah, he seated 28.
- [50:14]
C
What a fall. I mean what a, what a ascent. Meaning what? What an autumn. What an autumn. Yeah he was 28 at the US Open and finishes five. And between the, the confidence and also not having to defend a whole lot, it's not like he's chasing a thousand points in Miami, I think. Yeah. And we, we all, I, I always. You know, sometimes we sort of like these players on a personal level. We have nice interactions or people, fans enjoy them and we sometimes can impression of their tennis with how much we like them personally to sort of this halo effect where we can't differentiate the tennis potential from how much we like them on a personal level. There's a lot of good tennis here. And this is a guy who doesn't necessarily. I mean, he's. They're going to be better servers, they're better players off the ground, but you sort of put everything together. There's a lot to like here. He's still in this meaty prime of his career and you take what he's done over the last 90 days and you sort of say, whoa, this completely changes the picture here. This is someone who probably cannot wait for the next season to start because he doesn't want to lose any momentum.
- [51:27]
A
Yeah, I agree. And very interested to see how he comes out of the gate this year. Seems like, can you think of like a streakier player on tour where when it's all as good, he looks like a top five guy. And then when it's not great, it's. It's like we're struggling to choose him to get through two rounds. I think I had him losing first round of the US Open.
- [51:48]
C
Who. I mean, I feel like we, we have this discussion sometime on, on the women's side of like, boy, if, if everything's clicking, she can make a deep run, and if not, it's. It's out by the first Monday. It's funny too, because Felix is so measured in everything else. Yeah, but the tennis result, I mean, you know, but, but Bublek is very consistent. This is on tennis. Results are on brand. Felix is very sort of buttoned up and measured in every way except his tennis results. But this, I mean, what a 90 day stretch out of nowhere.
- [52:20]
A
Yeah, if he was. Let me know. You think about this. If Felix was like a bit of a nutter off the court, we would use the term streaky a lot more with him.
- [52:29]
C
Yeah, right, Exactly.
- [52:32]
A
I think that's right. Anyways, and then number four is like.
- [52:38]
C
Where do we go here.
- [52:41]
A
This age, Last four. It's as if he can turn on and off being a top three or four player in the world. And that's that's Novak Djokovic, right? Where it's like, I don't know, how do we judge this year against his career? It was like any year where he's not winning a major, for him, that's probably disappointing. And also, this was insane to watch. This year he was like a part time tennis player who was the third best player in the world. It's a joke. It's so impressive.
- [53:12]
C
You, you said this. You. You said sort of from. From our generation. The. The Jimmy Connors 1991 run.
- [53:17]
A
That's it.
- [53:18]
C
Hey, grandpa, you know, turn up the volume, Gerital. This, this guy's a year younger and he made the semis of all four majors. And we have this kind of, you know, we have this rage against the dying of the light theme. He also won a couple tournaments in addition to those four runs at the four majors. I just think there is this sort of existential, I mean, at this stage in his career, if he cannot get it done against the guys who are ranked number one and number two, do you still say you could go either way? You could say either. This is a bat chick crazy conversation. I'm still a top four player in the world in what I choose to do. Or you say, you know, I've won enough of these majors. If I can't win another one, what am I doing here? I mean, there's. It's a big, big range of outcome here. What do you think?
- [54:05]
A
You ready for a tinfoil hat conversation?
- [54:10]
C
Where are we going here?
- [54:11]
A
No, this is simple. It's not. It's not that dramatic, I promise. But let's like. We forget stuff very easily. Right. Do you remember way back when when it looked like sinner was on his way out of Wimbledon?
- [54:25]
C
Yeah, sure. Against Dimitrov.
- [54:26]
A
And let's assume some health for Novak. Center loses in that tournament. Yep.
- [54:34]
C
It's very interesting.
- [54:35]
A
I'm just saying, like, that's. That center matchup is rough because he's like playing the prime version of himself, you know, it's like, can he d. Up against Sinner's power? You know, Sinner likes to get on their front foot. Does he have the defensive ability? He's not faster than he was two years ago. Obviously that's not a criticism. I say this with. I say this all with amazement. I don't know. We act like there's no chance that anyone could. Like sinner was on his way out of that tournament and Dimitrov blew out his pectoral muscle. Right. He was most likely going to win that match and then it changes. Like Carlos wasn't, I mean you say this but like he's a, we judge him against his own shadow now. But like Carlos didn't play amazingly well at Wimbledon this year. Like he's, you know, compared to what we've seen from Carlos in the past now he's going to be an, he is an all time great already number one player in the world. But like very couple of little things shift in Novak. I don't know. Like, I don't, I'm not. And we're not done with that conversation yet.
- [55:43]
C
I think A, you're right and I think B, we've got data points here. Right? There is his. I mean Roger Federer beat Marin Cilic I think to win, to win his last two majors. I mean there is a history of the draw gods working in strange ways. There is also a history of Novak in a one match for history context, most recently 2024 Summer Games. Right.
- [56:04]
A
The question is, and he was questioning this after the US Open. I don't know that he can train the way he used to. I would suspect you can't train that psychotically. And I mean that in a good way at 38 years old. And if you can't do that, can you get your body to hold up over the course of two weeks at a major, best of five. The answer this year was no to his own admission. Right. It was like my body, I don't know if my body can do it. And then when I get to the semis, am I going to beat these guys if my body is damaged goods by the time I get there? That's the whole thing for this conversation.
- [56:45]
C
Well, here's just a sort of informed speculation. This is sort of reported speculation, but he really likes this challenge that some people, oh God, I got to get up a bit. I used to win these majors and now I've got to go through these. I think he loves this challenge of bending time. And I mean I, you know, you, you knowing him a little bit, sort of, you, you sense that anyway. But talking to people who are very close to him, I think he really, you know, the great, the great ones always find, you know, Michael Jordan, the great ones always find something. Sometimes it's completely concocted, sometimes it's a legitimate rival. I think he loves this challenge of can I outflank time? And I think he's leaning into that.
- [57:25]
A
Alex Verev, you know, a lot of criticism. We say a lot of things. Obviously him not winning a major leads the conversation. Most Times maybe had a year he wasn't real super pumped about. And number three in the world.
- [57:45]
C
That'S half empty versus half full. Yeah, I mean, it's, we've talked. He lost 25 matches at number three. The guy who's ranked number two lost, I think, I think five matches. He had one title in 25 defeats is a lot for a guy who's ranked number three in the world and not a lot of titles. And I think we've talked about this to his credit. He knows what the deal is. Whatever whipped cream and shit is that would apply here. He's not diluting himself. He gets to the finals in Australia, feels really good about his chances, doesn't get it done against center, and then the rest of the year goes a little bit awry after that.
- [58:30]
A
I will also say, like, I know firsthand information about injuries he was dealing with this year and what he was playing through. I don't feel like he feels the need to talk about it all the time, which part of me really respects. And also there's a massive. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's realistic, it's fair. And it also sucks that his entire career is going to be defined by if he can beat those guys twice in a row in a major and win one. That's it. That's the entire thing. He knows it. He knows it also.
- [59:10]
C
That's the thing. Yeah. He has not deluded himself here.
- [59:13]
A
And it's just Izzy is a phenomenal player. The career resume is amazing. Think he has to his back ends amazing. Crush and rush off a second serves, serve and volley a little bit more. Do these things where every point of aggression isn't about picking out the right ball and doing something uncomfortable three or four shots into a rally. I think it's about like blunt force trauma type aggression where you're choosing to do this and play this way from the first ball and then all of a sudden it makes your stock game of wanting to drift back a little bit more effective. That's what I think. I think playing the back end inside out from the return position sometimes to where people aren't just stepping left to kind of receive your ball. I think that kind of the injection of aggression versus like a wholesale change on your weakest shot, which is most likely going to end not even whipped cream on top of shit, just with shit like that's, that's not a simple thing to do. If I'm him, I'm thinking more about, you know, my second serve is Massive. Now, is there a world where I can pull the string and hit at 92 and also hit at 115. Right. Without disrupting the rhythm that I've come to enjoy? So all of those little things, I think matter. That's the way I would be thinking about it if I was in the Zverev camp, as opposed to retooling a technically flawed forehand and pretending like it's automatically going to be better against people that can bother you to that side already. I don't know that that's the solution.
- [60:46]
C
That's a good point. That it's too easy to say, oh, he needs to be more aggressive. Well, what's the context?
- [60:51]
A
I need to hit talisman on my backhand. Exactly.
- [60:53]
C
I can't hit my spots on my. Yeah, I need to hit my spots on my serve. Great. Go out there and do it. But I also think a lot of this is context dependent. I just think, look, it's exactly. It is what it is. Like, the guy is a really, really good player. He wins 57 matches on this quasi disappointing year every year. Can he get it done against the two guys? But this is kind of the. This is the overarching theme for men's tennis. I, I think before we get to these two, I think overall this is really good. You know, it's a good problem to have. We have two generationally talented players. They're locked in this rival. They're really good. They play on all surfaces, they win reliably. Like, let's not waste too much time talking about sort of, where's the rest of the cast? I think we don't do enough time celebrating these two guys before we pivot immediately into, why are there not more challengers to the throne?
- [61:44]
A
Yeah, and there's. I mean, we'll get to. Obviously, center now finishes 2 in the world, wins Wimbledon, almost wins the French Open, Losing the finals of the U.S. open, almost finishes one, misses three months. And I have a question for you, JW, because I know he's automatically on the short list. Best ball striker of all time. Who is it?
- [62:14]
C
Andre Lindsey. Davenport. Center's up there. I mean, sinners, this is Andre Caliber.
- [62:22]
A
I'm not saying that I'm ready to go there. I think I. Again, in the mysterious Eubank shows, that will come out at some point. Like, we had this conversation and I said, Andre. And he was like, I mean, how do you define it? Consistently being able to square it up with pace, Able to bully someone off the spot just by ball striking right before we get into spins and everything else. That's not what he does to bother people and smother people. I think he's in that conversation. We are looking at a generational talent, especially with the ball striking. It's not as if he's. It's not as if he's going out there and flipping a ball up or changing paces or like he comes out in his stock game as I'm going to get on my front foot, and once I do, you can't get away from me. Like, there's nowhere to go. You can't go through me. Once I get a hold of a rally, which is oftentimes from the return, you can't get control of the rally again unless you're Carlos. Because he has the ability to create spin, drop shots, movement. He's the only person that can get out of, like the Brett the Hitman heart four figure leg lock. He's the only person that can get out of it once he's in it.
- [63:36]
C
That is a great reference. Thank you. I had a coach say something very similar, which is, he is the most deceptively good athlete. And we're not talking about monfis and vertical leaps. We're talking about someone that puts him in position to start dictating play. And you, you look at his legs and you look at his stride. And sometimes athleticism is crazy tweeners, and other times it's getting out on that front foot and getting one shot into a rally and knowing that you are now controlling play and you are imposing yourself because of your athleticism. I mean, what. Just stepping back. I mean, what a year.
- [64:10]
A
Unbelievable.
- [64:11]
C
Dealing with a. We can litigate this some other time. But there was a 90 day anti doping sanction plea bargain thrown in there. He actually won more money than Carlos Alcor. I mean, this is our prize money leader despite this 90 day absence. And he very nearly won three majors.
- [64:31]
A
Right. And I hope we've given sinner enough props this year for what he's been able to do, how he's been able to, like you mentioned it, compartmentalize. Like, think what you want about the suspension, right? Take a minute. Let's all have three seconds. Okay? Great. Now, if we're all riled up one way or the other, put that to the side and say, regardless of your posturing or opinions on it, let's acknowledge the ability to compartmentalize and take this vacuum of polarizing attention and then you come back and roam and the output's the same. It's fucking insane. It's absurd.
- [65:12]
C
Up to the races.
- [65:13]
A
What he was able to do, just crazy. And we've talked about this before and I think this is with Carlos also. And the way he's talked about, hey, I needed two months to prepare. Being that good and then being able to actually check your ego to improve is not something normal. Like that's not something like, I wasn't even close and I'm an, I'm an idiot. And people like, well, you have to adjust this. I'm like, fuck, no, this works really well like that. The ability for like the lack of ego with these two to adjust to each other is not something that you see all of the time. And I feel like we've already touched on Carlos a little bit because it's gotten to the point where it's impossible to talk about one's excellence without talking about the other is excellence. But Carlos Alcaraz, I mean, match of the ages, I think the best 12 or whatever it was, 13 point sequence that I've ever seen someone execute at the end of that French Open final after five and a half hours on court. It's something I will never forget in my entire life, was what he was able to do. It looked like he was playing a video game, using himself at the end of that French Open match. And then what he did, I mean, the US Open final I think was peak. Alcaraz to this point in his career just, he has this, this gear that maybe earth doesn't have when it's all going right.
- [66:45]
C
I would. If we're, if we're doing a recap. If you're a fan, go back and watch what Andy's talking about. Go back and watch the last 15 minutes. And you know, we talk about the last round of the heavyweight fight and these guys are all gassed and they're getting. You would never have known that we were five hours into this high stakes classic match. That says a lot about his physical durability. That says a lot about sort of mentally where his head is. The quality just on a sheer tennis quality level that Carlos Alcaraz brought at that point was a joke and I thought said so much about him. And I think one theme of this year is like rivalry is really awesome and part of it is for fans purposes. And it's always good to, you know, you take your side and. But rivalry also makes you a better athlete, player, runner, whatever it is. And what you see is not just two guys that have distanced themselves from the field, but two guys that continue to improve because the other is on their heels. And I think that's one of sort of the themes here, and I think Carlos is a real beneficiary of that. We've talked about the differences between approach and between the game of these two guys, and one of them is, you know, it's. What do you say? You're a heart rate monitor versus more of a flatline. It's a wonderful contrast. Carlos, a couple more ranking points, a couple fewer dollars won. I. I think he's probably your mvp. Eight titles.
- [68:14]
A
I don't know, like, nine.
- [68:15]
C
Nine losses, eight titles.
- [68:17]
A
One other thing that I think is worth mentioning before we is, let's rewind all the way back to Miami. Loses to David Gofund and had been underwhelming to that point in the year. Lost the week before to Draper, lost to Novak in Australia, didn't play well at the end of 2024. Kind of got run out of tur in that year. And then the conversation is, okay, the upside is, is. Is unmatched. But the inconsistency is. Is. Is crazy. You know, and that became kind of like a very fair narrative. And then that narrative bled on too long because he didn't not make a final pretty much for the next eight months.
- [69:03]
C
Right.
- [69:03]
A
Right. So, like, we need to put that to bed because I think we still hear people doing that. I'm like, what could have. What. What did. What does consistency look like if not for the last eight months of Carlos Alcaraz during this tennis season?
- [69:17]
C
You don't. You don't think 71 match wins in two majors is pretty good consistency?
- [69:22]
A
I mean, he didn't play well the first three months of the year and did that. Right. Like, it's, It's. It's phenomenal. And, like, he basically was like, oh, yeah, I'm not consistent. Here you go. I'll be in a final every single week of every single tournament from here on out. Jw, before we close here, do you have some honorable mentions just real quick to reel off for us? We get to the top 20, who's kind of peing your interest? Who deserves props? Who are you looking at going into next year?
- [69:51]
C
Oh, man, I. I learn Lerner, TN and Fonseca, both of them.
- [69:56]
A
Yep.
- [69:57]
C
Breaching the walls of the Citadel and proving that they belong. I. I think, you know, Fonseca, you hear accusations of. Of. Of hype, and everybody needs to settle down. This guy's a teenager. He's in the top 25, and he won at least one round at every major. I think that's pretty good. We Would be remiss not to acknowledge the cousins Arthur Rindernesht and Vachero, which was a great heartstring story, I think. You take a step back and men's tennis, pretty darn good place. You have these two towering champions, and they're locked into this rivalry. They're not letting anyone on the. You know, the drawbridge isn't going up. You've got Novak hanging on. You've got younger players. You've got players trying to solve mysteries. We wish everyone were healthier. We wish the schedule were different. It's very easy to sort of go down the road of gripes, but I think overall, very nice year, both tours. But men, we're talking men now, I think. Sports in a good place.
- [70:57]
A
Fonseca and Turin next year. Yeah, yeah.
- [71:01]
C
Up eight.
- [71:01]
A
Yeah. One. One name that we don't. And I don't, like, always agree with a lot of the stuff, like, he's, you know, he got into with a fan and, like. But one of the more undertold stories of this year, I think, is Denis Shapovalov goes from, you know, his top 10 goes down to 150, is kind of like, searching for an extended period of time. He's 23 in the world right now. Again, like, good. That's. That's. That's pretty good playing. And that's. That's a nice. That's a big comeback story that I don't think anyone has talked about enough, just because we apply the expectation set from five years ago to him at all times. Right. But, like, going from 150 and kind of having lost the plot a little bit and maybe being uninspired, and then, you know, you look up and I'm going, oh, chapo is a 23 in the world. Like, that's where he finished this year. So props to him. I don't think that was. I don't. I don't think that was talked about enough. Someone who. Let's see where this goes, but, like, had a massive, massive step backwards this year, and the game is just phenomenal. And you. You hope that he feels like he. When he talks about it, he's trying to find. The thing is, is Stefano sits up. This is something we took for granted in the top five for a long time. You know, will he find, you know, some form? Has an early result in the Middle east coming off. I think it's more fun when he's in the mix. I think his flair and his talent, the ability that he has to pull some crazy. I think it's great. I hope he gets back. Last week's guest, Francis Tiafo. I don't know that we would have had him at 30 going into this year. So let's see if he can turn that around and create a little bit more consistency. But what a year it was. Onward, upward. I can't wait. Listen. We can make all the predictions in the world, but the beauty of of tennis and sports is that it's the world's best reality show. We don't actually know nothing's a guarantee. You know, we wouldn't have said two years ago that, you know, Novak was locked out of slams, you know, so this is amazing. I hope we. It's been a year full of appreciation and gratitude for the output of these phenomenal athletes in a year full of unbelievable tennis champions, et cetera, et cetera. One of the things I'm, I'm most grateful for, jw, is our listeners can't believe that this little garage show now has people who come in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions every week to listen to us talk about the sport we love. It's just such a gift to be able to talk about it. It's such a gift to us that's never unappreciated that you all care enough to choose to listen to us. The team has just been phenomenal, jw, no matter where you are in the world, we appreciate you always showing up for us. Thank you for listening to served this year and we can't wait to do bigger and better things next year. Cheers. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built on. With the ServiceNow AI platform, your AI data and workflows all work together, connecting every corner of your business. To see how you can put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com AI agents.
- [74:24]
C
Limu Emu and Doug.
- [74:27]
A
Here we have the Limu Emu in.
- [74:30]
C
Its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu.
- [74:43]
A
Is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera.
- [74:46]
C
They see us. Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Fairy Underwritten by.
- [74:53]
A
Liberty Mutual Insurance Company Affiliates excludes Massachusetts.