Sean (2:02)

I've been in the studio.

Andy Roddick (2:03)

I know I haven't. I make fun of them because I literally show up for an hour a week.

Sean (2:07)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (2:08)

Everyone else is just grinding, so I got to take my wins when I can. Producer Mike Techie Sean in the house. JW is here. We got a. Geez. Everyone, this is.

Sean (2:18)

I know and we got Eubanks in this episode.

Andy Roddick (2:20)

And we have Eubanks. What are we at serves now?

Sean (2:23)

Yeah, best serves.

Andy Roddick (2:25)

Boom.

Sean (2:26)

Pretty pumped.

Andy Roddick (2:27)

See how it goes.

John W. (JW) (2:27)

You guys don't have, you don't have 12 inches of snow out your window the way I do. Charlotte, doing okay here in this blizzard.

Andy Roddick (2:33)

We're, we're, we're dry. I don't know. I don't want to rub it in, but I was in jw. He's the guy. Like you text him like New York, you know, say, hey, do you have a good sushi recommendation? And he gives you like the not typical place. He has an answer for everything. It's just fantastic. Yeah. Did you go there good wreck? We couldn't because my friend. But like I. It started. They only start lunch at like one and we had something at two, so we couldn't do it. But it was like you write a text like, hey, any good, Rex? And there's no doubt that he's gonna give you like a great spot in a tucked away location. He does New York City the right way, in my opinion.

Sean (3:10)

Jon, have you done sendo yet? This sushi place? Sendo.

Andy Roddick (3:14)

I was gonna do.

John W. (JW) (3:15)

I was gonna go reverse and tell him he should take one of those Petty. The pedicabs are the best way to go around. They're only $3aminute. There's a place called Bubba Gumps at Times Square. Amazing.

Andy Roddick (3:26)

I was gonna get. So I was either. So instead of doing John, what place jw, are you not allowed to say?

Chris Eubanks (3:34)

I'll say it.

Andy Roddick (3:34)

Yeah, so I didn't go to. I didn't take his genius wreck. Instead I went with the Petty cab to Bubba Gump and took a picture with the naked cowboy Elmo. Anyways, well, it's good that we, we haven't lost our stride and we still get off topic very quickly.

Sean (3:48)

Here we are.

Andy Roddick (3:49)

Let's try racket rundown brought to you by Wilson. Because there was actually tennis played.

Sean (3:53)

Yes.

Andy Roddick (3:54)

This week Carlos Alcaraz wins a tennis tournament.

Chris Eubanks (3:58)

What?

Andy Roddick (3:58)

Nuts.

John W. (JW) (3:59)

No way.

Sean (4:00)

Two and fifty minutes.

Andy Roddick (4:01)

Two and one in the final. Like it was one way traffic. Right? Like he dropped a set. It's just when these, when he gets to those latter stages, he might lose to Vin to Zan Sculpt sometime, maybe not anymore. Like he's. It used to be like, I'm inconsistent. Now all he is is consistent. It's just we conflate that with like flashy. If you're flashy, somehow you can't be consistent also. But he is so that narrative is dead. Like, I think that's. If someone's talking about his lack of consistency, they're just not. They're just attached to what the conversation was 18 months ago, just dominant. Like, it's so hard to beat. Like, I don't know that I could beat anyone in the studio. Two and one in 50 minutes. And he's doing it to the best players in the world. Like, it's. It's just phenomenal. You know how you defend against someone on a full stretch on a backhand side, hitting an up the line drop shot perfectly. I don't like. You don't. You can't really solve for that. You have to cover so many different pockets of earth in space and court. With Carlos, he's serving. His serve is much better than it was two years ago. His back end consistency is much better than it was two years ago. His ability to basically be able to get in, even off of. If you hit a heavy ball to him, he's still able to get in off of it, which has to be depressing, you know, so if he's in full flight, you know, unless you're someone like Jannik who can just beat him to the punch. Sometimes I don't know what to do.

John W. (JW) (5:30)

You hope you.

Andy Roddick (5:31)

There's a certain element and I used to feel it when I was playing the Superheroes. It's like, okay, it's a really intimidating prospect to think that I have to execute almost perfectly and I need them to be off by 10 or 15%. And I think that's where Carlos is now. JW, are you. I mean, that's pretty straightforward, right?

John W. (JW) (5:52)

Did you watch any of that final? I mean, that was just highlight reel tennis. And it wasn't as though, you know, sometimes guys get into a serving groove or. I mean, he was winning points in all different ways and each point was equally spectacular. You talk about storylines that crashed and burned. Remember about 60 days ago when the salon was worried about this coaching change and there was a lot of chaos and Carlos had, you know, he'd lost in the World Tour finals to Sinner and Sinner was going to try and win a third straight. Australia Alcross has not lost a match this year. He looks as good as ever. Sinner has not won a tournament. This is an interesting. Rivalries are sinuous, right? They go up and down. But right now it does seem like Carlos time. And also, I mean, you. We talked about this before, but I do like his opponent in that final. That was, that was heartening to see.

Andy Roddick (6:37)

Was it not And I'm going to the. This thing will ebb and flow. Just so we're clear, anyone who's, you know, putting too much stock and center losing in Australia and here, like, just not get carried away. He's very much in this conversation and will be very much in this conversation. And we said on the show when Ferrero left, it's like Carlos is going to win major still. This doesn't change the fact that he's one of the best players in the world. I think what he has now erased is their reaction to an outlier result. Right. If he loses in the semis of Australia, we all start going crazy. And if he loses here, we all start going crazy. He's basically just put out that fire. Like he's basically taking the extinguisher where he could not win a tournament for two months now. And we're not going to mention the coaching switch, right? It's going to ebb and flow. Sinner will reinsert himself in the conversation. And we were talking about it off air quickly and then I want to get to feast and the rest of results too. But like, I mean, hopefully you saw the Q and Andy question about Sampras and my respect for Pete knows no bounds. And also Pete would lose in tournaments sometimes like in the round of 16, right? We're talking about the best player before this, you know, the big three. It's like shocking when you see Sinner lose a match, right? The precedent that's been set is kind of crazy to where, you know, he loses to a good player. And we're like, what is going on with Yannick? He's lost to two really good players this year. You know, it's just at some point in sports, the not fun part of it is you become a victim of your own shadow, of which Sinner has created a massive shadow by his successes. But Carlos is just like, you can't take your eyes off of him. I can only imagine how depressing it is to like the goal as a player. If you're playing someone who is better than you and is playing better than you is to make them beat you a different way, right? Like, this might not work, but I'm going to make someone hit for 47 passing shots today. And then I'm going to try to extend the rally. I'm going to try there. You lose differently and when he has you covered on every adjustment instantly, like you can't find any space and that has to be depressing for the rest of the tour. Feel good result this week. Seb Korda over Tommy Paul. Not because we love Tommy Paul, but just when, whenever anyone has injuries to the point of three and four years, and it's plain as day when you see Seb play that, like when he's healthy and he gets two, three, four, five months of tournaments, he ends up winning tournaments. He just does. He's, he's, he's a great tennis player. But the stop and start nature and the body not holding up is, is an issue. Now when you win 70% of your total serve points and you win over 60% of your second serve return points, you're going to be dominant. And that's what he was in the final. And Tommy's not someone that outside of, you know, you always kind of refer all the conversations back to the big two, right? But outside of those guys, he's not someone that you see get beat in a straightforward manner. And that was a straightforward final, like as straightforward as you get in a final four and three. And the secondary stats wasn't as if, you know, he went 2 for 2 on break points or like he went. It was dominating service games, dominating second serve returns to where Tommy couldn't come up for air anytime he missed a first serve. And that's daunting.

John W. (JW) (10:13)

The, I mean, the asterisk on that match is just. Those were brutal. I don't know if you, those were brutal conditions. You've spent time in the, in the Delray area. That was right before a storm. I mean, I also think, remember Corda lost, loses to Michael jagging the Columbia player in the first round in Australia, goes to San Diego to play what is basically a challenger. But we say this all the time, right? Winning begets winning. And it doesn't matter if the guy's ranked 500. It helps to get wins under your belt. And now here's Korda winning another tie off. He fell flat on his back winning Del Rey on a Sunday. You get the feeling this was a long time coming, this mattered a great deal to him. And now he's back in the top 40, doesn't have much to defend, appears healthy, and all of a sudden it does not take much to turn. These are not battleships we're turning in terms of career. And all of a sudden Sebastian Korda looks like this. This guy will be seated for Roland Garros. And then, then who knows?

Andy Roddick (11:03)

Yeah, and listen, we, you hear us all, all the time we say they need matches, they need matches, they need matches. This is what we're talking about. Wherever it is, you can't replace Ball kids, umpires, it actually mattering scoreboards, scoreboard, like you can't replace that in, you know, with, with practice. You just can't. So props to courter for, for knowing that stopping in San Diego on the way back.

Sean (11:28)

Well, I thought it was cool. Tommy Paul afterwards too like was congratulating him.

Andy Roddick (11:31)

Yeah, and not Tommy Paul Citizen.

Sean (11:34)

Not the canned congratulation. Like hey dude, I'm really happy to see you back. You've been through some injuries. I just thought it was a really nice moment. I think it speaks volumes of who Korda is on tour. I mean you've talked about it before and he had another post match interview. I don't know if you saw this. He was so quick on his feet. But after he beat Caboli in the semifinals, the, the court, the on court interview went a little, little awry. Sean, do you have that clip?

Andy Roddick (12:00)

Sebastian, congratulations. You've played Flavio three times and you've

John W. (JW) (12:06)

had sex success with him all three times. Why is it that you have had

Andy Roddick (12:11)

such success against Sebastian?

John W. (JW) (12:14)

He's a good looking guy.

Andy Roddick (12:16)

So why have you had so much sex with Kaboli?

Sean (12:19)

He says he's a good looking guy, but he's so quick and I just like. He's got great energy.

Andy Roddick (12:24)

He's smooth, man. Like I got to when I played that the deal in Dallas. I think the thing I missed most about the tour is just talking shit in the locker room, people coming in and out, like having conversation and he was in there and he's just, he's like super quietly confident and smooth. Like he's, you know, has a sense of humor, will get in with a one liner, doesn't need to like I like Seb Korda, I have a lot of time for him. The only wish that we have for him is continued health, right? If he has continued health, he will be a top 10 guy I think especially if those serving stats hold up. Like you know, for all of his strengths, which is like ball striking and the ability to return from 6 foot 5 and you can't really get the ball out of his zone. I think for someone 6 foot 5, the serve has left some to be desired throughout his career. But I just, he just looks and feels like a top 10 guy if he has an extended run of health, which we hope he does. Tommy Paul, he's just one of the cool kids too. Like you know, wins, loses. Like he's just a. I just like him a ton. But this is a big result for quarter. This isn't just an ordinary 250 result. Like you feel like this could potentially build towards something, you know, maybe a semifinal run in the Slam or something throughout the year. But it's nice to see him reset off of a rough last year into this season. Echeverri beats Tabilo in rio at the 500 down there as well. He went way up the rank. I mean this is like a big.

Sean (13:55)

His first career title.

Andy Roddick (13:57)

Yeah, everyone is dis. Everyone. That's his first career title.

Sean (14:00)

That's what it says on the website.

Andy Roddick (14:01)

Wow. I would have lost money on that. Not quite Davidovich Fokina, but he's been a good player for a long time. And when they discuss everyone going, oh no, like these, the tournaments in Middle east are going to draw people away from the South American swing. You know who doesn't really mind that? Too much Echeverian to be low.

John W. (JW) (14:26)

Golden swing.

Andy Roddick (14:27)

That's a nice 500 points there. And ranking up to. Is he flirting with 33 being seated?

John W. (JW) (14:33)

33. I mean he was outside the top 60 in Australia, so 500 points.

Andy Roddick (14:40)

You got to think that.

John W. (JW) (14:41)

Yeah, I was going to say you win a 500 and you're having your ranking and suddenly you're in good position to be seated at the next major. That's pretty good.

Andy Roddick (14:47)

And you. The 12 month lead time that gets you into. You're not worried about Australia next year.

Sean (14:53)

Oh, that's interesting.

Andy Roddick (14:54)

Yeah, that's a big. That's good timing for a win. And also the six weeks. So the way it works is you have to enter. You basically get entered into Indian Wells, Miami next year six weeks in advance. So he's basically just covered up entry into every big tournament through April next year with, with that win, not having to worry about dropping out of direct entry. So that's a big win. Congratulations to all the winners. Jess Pagula gets it done. She wins in the Middle east and she wins on Twitter all the time.

Sean (15:25)

She's like, she's hilarious.

Chris Eubanks (15:27)

Must follow.

Andy Roddick (15:28)

She's great. She's. She's like. Some people like Bublik will say funny and zany things. Pula is like, she, she's like super clever and smart. Like, she's. I don't know, she's. She's dialed Svitolina Pegula. Like it's almost. They've taken very different routes, but they are kind of like the best players who haven't won a Slam and they're both having great years simultaneously. Jess Pugula is just, I don't know, I'm a massive fan of her. I Think she's subtly hilarious. Like, she doesn't need to turn up the volume on her voice to just. Just cut.

Sean (16:04)

Yeah, she. She said real quick. So somebody posted on the Tennis channel had highlighted that Jess Pugula had made the semis of every event she's played since the 2025 U.S. open. And a user asked how many of those tournaments Pula had won, she responded directly on Instagram saying, Zero, my friend. Dubai is pending. So she's great now. 1.

Andy Roddick (16:23)

I love the word, but, like, love the word pending.

John W. (JW) (16:26)

Hey, by the way, Happy birthday. She's 32 today, so big birthday.

Andy Roddick (16:30)

Did you guys catch also?

John W. (JW) (16:31)

I mean, this is a great result, and I feel like her tweeting very rightly got her a lot of props. This is a really nice win, though. I mean, talk about a big points haul. Did you guys catch that? The same week that she wins this significant title, she was also appointed to be the chair of the architecture committee to take on the WTA schedule. First of all, she's really emerged. There are no ranking points for this, right? I mean, we can't trace her the way we can Echeverri, but she's really emerged as kind of the clubhouse leader. She's sort of become this. This real moral force in the WTA Tour in the middle of her career when she's, you know, top five player. She's the chair of a committee to redo the count. This isn't like I said, this. This is like, hey, this is our prom theme. We're going to go with, you know, we're going to do ET this year. This is a really significant, fundamental issue. And Jess Pula is chairing the committee to take a look at the schedule. It also is funny that she. She wins the event that all the more than half the players initially entered dropped out. She wins that event, and now she's going to Austin across halfway across the world to keep her commitment and defend her title there. So big week for her. But I think Jess Pula's emergence as this leader is a story unfolding before our eyes.

Andy Roddick (17:45)

Yes, there's. I have. I have two thoughts. One, this is a great choice if you're one of the players. Like, when was the last time you heard Jess Bagula say something stupid or irresponsible? And she has to deal with a lot of, like, dumb questions, right? Just based on the fact that her family's successful. Therefore, like, I would get annoyed with those questions after a while. But, like, that doesn't change the fact that I still have to go out and win a semifinal match. Like I'm not. Like the tennis tour doesn't give you anything, right? So she handles all that shit like so well. This is a great choice and also nice position to be in. If you're on the WTA, you're looking at schedule. You know, you already end three weeks earlier than the ATB tour. So that upside, it's great. Sorry, I won't go down that rabbit hole. You guys have heard me and I know you all think I'm going to go, I want to do it, but I won't. This is maturity.

Sean (18:32)

Do you think the first thing she'll address though is the player images on the WTA website. This poor website. Because she also this week, she also this week posted on X a picture of herself. Sean will put it up. A picture of herself where they clearly had photoshopped her waist. And she wrote, WTF happened to my body? Laughing face. And then she wrote, thank you for giving me the waste of my dreams. And I think pieces of my arm are also missing. Not sure what happened here. We'd like to say the WTA website has already been corrected. So kudos.

Andy Roddick (19:04)

How does that happen?

John W. (JW) (19:05)

That's a great question. Wait, can I just serious, Can I go on a serious little mini rant here? How does that happen? Is a great question. And I don't know if this is just, if it's AI. If there's some interest that's asleep, it's a switch. But did you catch her response? I thought Jess Pegula was so delicate with that and this, you know, I mean, her body's been distorted. This is the same week that, you know, Mark Zuckerberg has to defend that one in three girls that looks at Instagram, it's, you know, it's harmful to their mental health. This is actually a serious issue and it's body positivity. And Jess Pagula could have said this website's trash, which a lot of players do. She could have sort of grandstanded and said, listen, we're supposed to be about body positivity and strong women and these are world class athletes and you still feel the need to make us more skinny. That's an outrage. Instead, what did she do? She didn't let it go unremarked upon. She got her, you know, she very rightly got her shots in. But it was delicate and self effacing and the message was received. But she also wasn't preachy about it. The way I am being. I think big week for Jess Pegula, but I think there's More to that Photoshopped body image than just, hey, look, they're making women skinnier than they should be. I think this cuts pretty deep.

Sean (20:15)

Yeah. I mean, I think luckily they changed it pretty quickly and hopefully they're doing a full review of their full website. But this. Andy, you've had something like this happen to you before in the past, which we found on the Internet. And not to follow up, John, with your serious note with one that I think is comically hilarious. John, have you seen this cover of Men's Health with one Andy Roddick?

Andy Roddick (20:34)

It's a long time ago. This is almost 20 years ago.

Sean (20:36)

Prime. Take a look at this.

Andy Roddick (20:37)

Look at those.

John W. (JW) (20:38)

Whoa.

Andy Roddick (20:42)

Like, that is like. How bad is that, by the way?

John W. (JW) (20:47)

This is the world's Strongest Man. How many buses did you and Sven happen to love on the World's Strongest Man?

Sean (20:54)

I mean, bro, there's traps, bro.

Andy Roddick (20:55)

For someone. For someone who's listening and not watching.

John W. (JW) (20:58)

Right.

Andy Roddick (20:59)

The Jess Bagula waist was maybe three inches around.

Sean (21:02)

Yeah, it was. Put Barbie to shame.

Andy Roddick (21:04)

It was a joke. Like. And then this image that they're showing of me was from a million years ago where it was like men's fitness. And it's pretty obvious that they came and took the picture and they weren't real happy with my body. And so they made me like the buffest, like 77 inch biceps. And then they just kind of stuck my head on top.

Sean (21:24)

I think they stuck you on a stock photo of somebody else.

John W. (JW) (21:27)

This is Photoshop 1.0. But I do, like, lose your gut. See results in five days.

Andy Roddick (21:31)

So you got to hit that one.

John W. (JW) (21:33)

Big arms. But you lost your gut.

Andy Roddick (21:35)

You realize they already have their articles written and there's like the big arms thing and they're like, we chose the wrong person.

Sean (21:40)

They're like, we've made a horrible mistake.

Andy Roddick (21:41)

We made a horrible. And I was like, yeah, that's not me. Just immediately I came out like, that's obviously not me. Like, that's not the man. That's not the one.

Sean (21:49)

All right, enough of that. Enough of that.

Andy Roddick (21:51)

What other news we got, jw, what are the news?

John W. (JW) (21:54)

It's the open secret of Craig Tylee coming to America. It looks like it's finally ready to hit. I don't know how deep you want to go here. I'm really interested to see. See what he does and what he's given the Runway to do. And I think Craig is nervous.

Sean (22:07)

You're talking about usta rumors that he's going to run the U.S. yeah.

Chris Eubanks (22:09)

Yeah.

John W. (JW) (22:10)

Okay. I should have clarified that. So, Craig Tyle to become CEO, man in charge of the usta. This has been an open secret for a while. I did hear he did not sign his employment contract until after the Australian Open. So I suppose if he had been asked about it during his tournament, he could have rightly said, if there's nothing to this, he wouldn't have been lying. But, yeah, I mean, enough is enough. He's coming to the United States. I think this is good news. I'm just interested to see.

Andy Roddick (22:33)

Is it news? What the news is. It hasn't, like, officially been announced, but, I mean, it's happening, right?

John W. (JW) (22:38)

I think there will be an announcement imminently.

Andy Roddick (22:41)

Whatever. It's been too long. There's no secrets. Like, at this point, it's getting fucking awkward not to talk about it.

John W. (JW) (22:47)

But don't you think it's interesting to see sort of what. What he does with this job and what he's allowed to do? I mean, I think that's much more interesting at this point. And he's known for elevating the Australian Open. But there are other things. You know, one thing I was talking to a former player about, Daria Kazatkina wants to leave Russia and find sanctuary elsewhere. Where does she end up in Australia? Suddenly, Australia has a very credible player. I don't know. Is that the kind of thing Craig Tylee would do here? Craig Tylee made his name as a college coach at Illinois. Does that change the USDA's relationship to college tennis? I mean, I think it's really going to be interesting to see what he does because it's a very different set of issues and challenges and, frankly, bureaucracy than tennis Australia. But, you know, Craig. Craig coming here is big, big news that probably is a little boring to the casual fan that would rather talk about Carlos and his drop shots, but this is. This is a big story.

Andy Roddick (23:38)

Yeah. And it's. It's one that's coming. And I got to imagine when the USTA is kind of trying to fill this position, that's probably option. I don't know. Like, you have 10 options, and, like, you know that he's going to be on the short list of two, like, immediately, like, if given the choice, you got to think he was lapping the field as far as options and what he's turned Australia into and the job he's done there. And he was success. He's been a successful college coach where, like, they won national titles. And then into coaching college tennis is not the same as running, you know, your national slam On a continent. Like he's been successful at kind of every step of the way with, with whatever he's done. So if you can get him to say yes, you don't want to like disregard other people who are in the running. But it seems like a no brainer hire for the USTA based on, based on track record. Yeah, I mean I just.

John W. (JW) (24:34)

He needs to be protected from the bureaucracy and when. I don't want to pick on any market but you know, when Walla walla Washington needs new netposts, someone needs to handle that before it goes to Craig Tylee. I mean the USTA is that sort of. There's a lot of bureaucracy and a lot of snarl. You hope he's protected from that.

Andy Roddick (24:51)

Jw, you mentioned before, we were coming on that, like just talk through a little bit and I'm interested to see where this goes because obviously your mailbag is like must read for any tennis fan every week that you put out. But how much of your inbound right now is, is the Serena of things? How much oxygen is she taking up when not covering just like results of tennis? But she brings in an entirely different mainstream kind of interest to our sport. Right.

John W. (JW) (25:23)

I didn't know where you were going with that. No, you're right. This is sort of a great parlor game. And I think fans very rightly are very curious to see where this ends up. So what do we know? We know that Serena Williams, born in 1981, let's not leave her age out of this. I mean it's just extraordinary. I think just top line. This is great. This could be nothing. This could be the story of the year in tennis for 2026. But I don't know if anyone isn't looking forward to seeing how this plays out. And anyone that's denigrating this is really on the margin. So let's. This is a great thing. The question is, how is this going to play out? Two names I've heard bandied about. I've seen this on 10. I'll tell you something really funny. Two names I've heard bandied about. One of them is Martina Navratilovo. Why? Because when Martina was Also in her mid-40s, she decided to come back. She was very successful. She won majors, but it was only in doubles in mixed. The other name I've heard a lot, I think I mentioned is Harmony Tan. Why do I mention that? That is who beat Serena in her final match at Wimbledon four years ago. 7, 6 in the third first round. This was about as far from Peak Serena as you can get. And I've been told by multiple sources that Serena really has a bitter taste. Seven time champion at Wimbledon, she really has a bitter taste about how she went out. So I don't know if this is all sort of veering towards a return to grass. In Wimbledon, you don't just rock up. Presumably you're going to have to play tournaments before that, or if this is sort of. She'll play doubles with Venus. She'll have some fun. She'll play in the mixed event and she's in her mid-40s and I'm not going to play singles against players half my age. But I'll still be back. Real quick, we were talking about this on Tennis Trail. Andrea Petkovich, all credit to her, had a great line, which is, if you've ever been through the anti doping protocols and you're getting 5am knocks on the door to go pee and give blood, you are not availing yourself to that in order to play doubles. If you're going to get back in this protocol, Serena, let's be clear, Serena could today, as of this morning, she's eligible to play. I mean, give her a wild card and she's good to go. I credit or blame Petkovich for this, but she basically says she's playing singles, if only because you're not going to do anti doping for doubles only.

Andy Roddick (27:28)

So there you have it.

John W. (JW) (27:30)

One other thing I heard. I don't know if you agree with this or not. I heard she is not. There's speculation she might play Indian Wells and I was heard that that won't happen. Not because of family history and backstory, but just because the conditions are so variable and it's windy or it's cold. She'll be playing on that stadium court for sure, which is actually below the ground. It can get hot in the day and cold at night and windy and a gritty court. That's not the right setting for her to kick off this comeback. So, anyway, it's a great story. It's fun to follow. She's being sort of very on brand. She's being a little teasing and a little cryptic. We're not getting much out of the camp. That's fine.

Sean (28:06)

She posted a couple days ago. She said, I'm ready. I'm getting ready for Serena Summer. Hashtag SummerOfSarina, to which Maria Sharapova wrote Wimbledon.

Andy Roddick (28:15)

Yeah, I mean,

Sean (28:18)

she's saying summer of Serena, right? So Indian Wells isn't in the summer.

Andy Roddick (28:21)

Listen, what do you think?

John W. (JW) (28:22)

What do you think? Tell us Exactly.

Andy Roddick (28:25)

Listen, what Petkovich says is correct. Now, the only caveat I will. I would side with her if we were, if we were putting $10 on it. Like, I think she will play singles. The only caveat is, is if you have a sister and you have this decades long relationship with tennis and your sister says, I'm going to leave at some point, I would like to play with you one more time. Like, I chose to re. Enter doping protocols for my friend Marty, right? And it's not my sister Venus.

Chris Eubanks (29:00)

So.

Andy Roddick (29:02)

Yeah, like, yes, but there, there's no, there's just no chance of your. I'm not Serena Williams. I don't have the interest of Serena Williams. Going and playing some, you know, first round in Atlanta is not the same thing. You're going to bring this amount of attention to it. And now she's just openly flirting with like gasoline and fire.

Sean (29:19)

Like, yeah, she's, she's, she's.

Andy Roddick (29:21)

She will be on a professional tennis court this year. Like, she will be. She will be. You do not. Awesome doping protocols suck. Like, they're the worst. They're. They're the most, the biggest inconvenience.

Sean (29:34)

We should do them for like a month ever. For the staff.

Andy Roddick (29:38)

I don't think we'd like the results. We would all fail 100%.

Sean (29:42)

Delta

Andy Roddick (29:45)

I. She's going to play. And now she's just openly. Like, I haven't served since 2020. Like, that one. Bullshit.

Sean (29:53)

She posted a video. She's like, ah, my arm.

Andy Roddick (29:56)

Yeah, yeah. She's like.

Sean (29:57)

I was like, give me a break.

Andy Roddick (30:06)

She's not, she's now not skipping news cycles. Like, this is, this is, this is coming.

Sean (30:11)

She is doing it like once a week now at this point.

Andy Roddick (30:12)

She is not.

John W. (JW) (30:13)

Can we agree this is aw though. I mean, I think there's some people who are like, oh, she's teasing us. You know what? I'm all, I'm here for it. No, no one knows anything. Anything. You talked to two different players and they have two very different takes on this. That's great. I love the intrigue. If she decides tomorrow, you know what? I'm cutting bait. It's time to watch Bluey with the kids. This tennis thing is overrated. That's fine. Like, it's. No, no lose here right now.

Andy Roddick (30:36)

There's plenty of hours to watch Bluey. All right? What I'm, what I'm excited for is, like, when she shows up. Like, if it wasn't. The thing that is strange about this is if someone was coming back and Indian Wells isn't a great surface for them. I would tell most people, like, yeah, just, just, just kick the shit off the tires. Like just go there. It's uncomfortable. Like you're going to have to, like there's no perfect re. Entry. Right. Like you, you need to, you can't just show up at Wimbledon and play. Like you have to play something going in after this amount of time. I would almost argue that do you want to risk getting hurt on clay and the movement isn't natural. Try to play two or three events on hard reassess. Is this good, is this bad and then figure out what you want to play from there. But Serena is such an attention vacuum because it's earned and she's such a supersedes any interest in our sport. Like she's, you know, no one is bigger than sport and if anyone was, it would be Serenity Williams. Right. Like, so the attention mechanism where she can't just go out and lose a match 2 and 4 at Indian Wells without having to deal with, with all of it. So I think she has to be a little bit more precious about it. If it's just based on tennis, I'm going. If you're coming back and you feel fit and healthy, it. Let's just assume that it's going to be imperfect and you got to get out there and go through the steps and start kind of trying to figure out the match play. Muscle memory again. You know, we talk about Seb Court of going and finding matches and how that's the right thing to do. That's the right thing to do for Serena. It's just that she's Serena.

Sean (32:20)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (32:20)

Like you're, you're like, it's, it's going to be covered on, you know, nightly news.

Sean (32:24)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (32:25)

As opposed to like, yeah, she plays

Sean (32:27)

a match at the local club is going to get covered. Right.

Andy Roddick (32:29)

I also can't wait. Low key. Can't wait to start getting like little text messages. When someone plays a practice set and is like she's not playing great or she's playing unbelievable or like, I can't wait for those little scouting reports to come in like that. When those start sprinkling in, I'm ready. I'm ready for that.

John W. (JW) (32:48)

Speaking of news, by the way, did I think since we started recording, I don't know if you guys got a certain news alert from espn, but there seems to be press release that just came out about a bit of a roster pickup to the broadcasting team.

Sean (33:07)

This isn't Serena returning to the game. This is Andy Roddick. Going into the ESPN booth for Wimbledon and US Open. Is that what you're talking about?

John W. (JW) (33:16)

I would like to read. Part of this is a statement from the new hire who says simply, I'm always just a massive fan of tennis. I'm very excited to join the ESPN tennis team. I look forward to covering the two biggest tournaments in the world. This will be great as long as I don't have to work with James Blake. That is Andy Roddick. Clip that, clip that.

Andy Roddick (33:37)

Guys, sorry. I'm sorry you had to find out this way. Like I, you know, it's came out of left field for us, you guys. Yeah, I'm, I'm excited. You know, I've kind of avoided commentary for a long time and it's simply our kids are old enough to go, you know, that, that, that's kind of it. And getting our reps in here and obviously ESPN having the rights to the biggest tournaments in the world and wanting to be a part of it instead of just sitting here shit talking coverage I can actually get in and you know, kind of be in the arena. Should be exciting. I, I think it is important for our listeners to know that not a single minute will be shaved off of the serve time in our Slam coverage. That was in the first 90 seconds of our negotiation with ESPN. We're not going to sacrifice anything that we've done for our served audience. We'll still do everything every day. Quick serve. They're going to help with that scheduling. That was my single biggest non negotiable and yeah, I'm just excited. You know, I, like you mentioned James and you know, obviously we're being facetious there because you know, Eubanks is a great friend. You'll hear him on the other side, us talking about who the best servers are. James is a great friend and I'm, I don't know, for the first time I'm kind of excited to jump in. You know, it was, it was a big negotiation. Trying to marry like what we do in this room where we just do anything we want versus, you know, signing a contract that literally has Mickey Mouse on the docusign is, is your check's literally going to have him on it is, is interesting. But I don't know. I mean, I don't, I don't know what, I don't know what else to say.

Sean (35:20)

Yeah, we're excited. I'm excited that now we're excited. Now we have an excuse to go over to Wimbledon the whole two weeks. I'll be like, I gotta figure, I gotta figure out how to technically pull off these quick serves from Wimbledon.

Chris Eubanks (35:31)

I mean, I do.

Andy Roddick (35:32)

What the fuck is your excuse? What are you talking about?

Sean (35:35)

Yeah, yeah. I'll just be there to support you.

Andy Roddick (35:38)

Oh, good. Yeah. What I need is. What I need is. I don't know. I'm working with a different producer. This is like a whole. Are we gonna be okay?

Sean (35:45)

They won't be as good. Some suit.

John W. (JW) (35:48)

Got nothing to worry about.

Sean (35:49)

They won't wear hoodies.

Andy Roddick (35:50)

I know. Like, my biggest stress point is, like, I have to wear clothes. Like, I can't wear a T shirt. Maybe I can.

John W. (JW) (35:59)

You're not gonna have to wear a tie. You're gonna have to get new shirts wearing a tie.

Sean (36:02)

Thor.

Andy Roddick (36:02)

Just. Just put that out there on the other side. Eubanks and I talking about the best serves ever. Thanks for watching Served AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built on. With the ServiceNow AI platform, your AI data and workflows all work together, connecting every corner of your business. To see how you can put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com AI agents, close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh. They're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts. All right. Welcome back to Served. Chris Eubanks in the house. We've done best forehands, We've done best backhands, but where does it all start?

Chris Eubanks (37:10)

Gotta start with the serve.

Andy Roddick (37:12)

You gotta be able to throw it. This serving is a little bit different just because, like, we talk best backhands and, like, kind of everyone now has a pretty solid backhand. Yeah, we. Where there used to be, like, I could get away with not having a good backend. Right. And still be good in the 2000s. It's almost the other way around. I think the prime for servers. And I'm curious to hear your take on this. Like, you go through the 90s, there are some massive servers that we don't mention enough. And we can get to why we think that is. The other thing that I think stands out with the serving lists is the best backhands, the best forehands. Pretty much everyone we named in Those episodes were top five players at some point. Yeah. There's some people on the serving list

Chris Eubanks (38:03)

that that'll be a little bit lower down those rankings.

Andy Roddick (38:05)

Like, we're maybe never top 15 or 20. So anyways, that's interesting. I don't know that we need to separate this as much. We used to for the other shows we did. I had up till 2012. You had afterwards.

Sean (38:16)

Generational.

Andy Roddick (38:17)

I feel like we can kind of mix this all together a little bit more because I kind of want your commentary on. Obviously, Pete's going to be on. Like, I think we can open this up and not kind of make it my generation. Your generation. Just start us off. Who you got.

Chris Eubanks (38:32)

Oh, do we want to go chronological order? Do we want to start at the beginning? I'll start, you start. Because I didn't want to start with who I was going to start with. And then you were going to go 10 years before that because I didn't matter. I know who you're going to start.

Andy Roddick (38:42)

We're an open game with. So. Whereas Rafa changed the game. He came in forehand spin like we've never seen before. Right. One of my first memories, I was three years old, but watching highlights when I'm six. Is this kid out of Germany.

Chris Eubanks (38:57)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (38:58)

17 years old, winning Wimbledon. Register. Wins Queens, Catches a heater. Wins Queens, wins Wimbledon. Is hitting bombs, diving everywhere. Just completely dynamic with the way that he served, the way that he jumped off of two feet. The. Like, his serve looks like you could plug it in right now and it would be how guys served. Like, it is like the. Oh, my. You kidding me? The knee bend.

Chris Eubanks (39:23)

And he landed on the right foot. Andy. He landed on the right foot.

Andy Roddick (39:26)

I don't.

Chris Eubanks (39:27)

I'm talking.

Andy Roddick (39:28)

Get the rack in the right position, turn the shoulders. You're not shoving it straight. It has movement. Like, he was the guy who was breaking off slice serves.

Chris Eubanks (39:34)

Yeah, yeah, True.

Andy Roddick (39:35)

He was a joke.

Chris Eubanks (39:36)

Like, serve itself.

Andy Roddick (39:37)

I don't care about what foot like Becker can land on his head. And that serve is one of the biggest game changers in the history of our game.

Chris Eubanks (39:43)

Yeah, it completely changed tennis because we started to see. He was kind of the first. I felt like. Who had that weapon. That was just.

Andy Roddick (39:51)

It doesn't get talked about. Leno had a bomb. Becker changed.

Chris Eubanks (39:53)

Yeah, everything. Lando had a bomb. Becker, I felt like was the guy who. When you came on court, your entire game plan in your scouting was based on that serve. And Andre talked about it at great length, even in his books, about having to try to Read Becker's tongue to know where he was going to serve. Like, it was one of the tennis

Andy Roddick (40:06)

stories in history, by the way.

Chris Eubanks (40:07)

You went on court with Boris Becker thinking, how am I going to deal with this serve? And that's where it kind of changed. And we started to see players who came on the back of that, who also were saying, you know what? If I can perfect this, the shot that I have complete control over, complete and utter 100%, is up to me. If I can perfect that, I can have a pretty good career as a professional tennis player with that shot being the focal point. And I felt like we saw a generation of servers kind of come after because you got to see, hey, this guy's athletic. He's diving all over the court. He's winning Wimbledon. If I can get a really good serve, maybe I don't. I may not win Wimbledon, but I'm shooting for it. But if I don't, I can make a living with that being the focal point of my game, not focusing on, you know, the other areas. Let's make sure the serve, the most important shot in tennis. I felt like he kind of started that. That trend that you started to see after.

Andy Roddick (40:52)

Yeah, I guess I'm. I'm beating this point to death. But there are certain people. Jimmy Connors changed the way footwork was done.

Chris Eubanks (40:59)

Yes.

John W. (JW) (40:59)

Right.

Andy Roddick (40:59)

Like, you come in. Mac changed the way that, like, feel. You know, maybe it was labor before him, but there are certain people that come along and it's like, oh, I've never seen anyone execute this specific skill, and I've never. I've never seen anything like it. They've taken who the best are and they've added to it. Like McEnroe flowing through volleys instead of stepping and, you know, like, kidding them in motion. Becker coming through is one of those moments where it's like, holy, what is this new normal?

Chris Eubanks (41:27)

Yeah, right.

Andy Roddick (41:28)

Like, what is this thing that we're. We're dealing with? So he was. He was top of mind, obviously. And then, I mean, right on his heels. The most clutch server I've ever seen in my entire life. This guy. I don't care what the score was. It's 30 all fifth set, three all. Second serve.

Chris Eubanks (41:47)

Second serve.

Andy Roddick (41:48)

Everyone in the stadium knows that he's

John W. (JW) (41:51)

going to hit it.

Andy Roddick (41:51)

122. It's like a slightly slower first serve. Probably the most clutch player I've ever seen. Honestly, like, forget service. Pete Sampras.

Chris Eubanks (42:01)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (42:01)

Maybe the most perfect service motion I've ever seen in my life.

Chris Eubanks (42:04)

I Mean, it looks. Kids who play junior tennis, you get those trophies and they give you the guy at the top who's hitting the service. Motion coaches will even teach you, oh, get into the trophy position. Pete had the perfect, like, the perfect trophy position. And I love talking to so many older coaches and older players who talk about they have this. I feel like Pete has probably the most stories. Like, you get a lot of stories with Pete from training days to. People used to say Pete would go out and practice, he could lose to anybody in practice. But he wasn't hitting this serve full out. He knew that when he needed it in the middle of a match, second serve, if he needed to go big, he could do it. He knew he could put it on a dime. I hear stories about Pete hustling NBA players from, like, putting a quarter down and hitting it, and then they owing him. Like, he has this legend, this mythic, like, legend about his serve. And I don't think you can have a list at all with service without including Pete. Not forgetting he was six' one, too. Like, he felt this presence of. He was so much bigger than he actually was. We talked about that with other players. Pete had that. And then you look at it, you go, the Guy was only 6 foot 1. Guy could dunk a basketball with two

Andy Roddick (43:09)

hands, by the way. I was just about to say two hands.

Sean (43:12)

That's crazy.

Andy Roddick (43:12)

Like, we're talking about athleticism closing a gap with speed. Like, Pete Sampras was one of the best athletes to ever play this game.

Chris Eubanks (43:18)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (43:19)

Like, it's in, like, get talked about enough. I'll tell you. Also, we talk about, like, the special skill for. For serving in. In my opinion. And we were talking about it when. When we were here working some days earlier this year. Speed is one thing. Becker changed the game on speed. Like, all of a sudden, he's upper register, 120s, 130s. Like, we hadn't seen anything like that. Consistent.

Chris Eubanks (43:38)

We had to put in perspective at that time. Like, nowadays, you see 120, 130, you're like, okay, that's normal.

Andy Roddick (43:43)

But at that, his rack, you might as well be hitting with a frying pan.

Sean (43:46)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (43:46)

Different.

Chris Eubanks (43:47)

Yep.

Andy Roddick (43:48)

Pete's movement after the bounce, his swing on, like a T serve on the AD side.

Chris Eubanks (43:55)

Oh, after the bounce. Yes.

Andy Roddick (43:57)

It would start and you're tracking it, and it's on your racket, and then it would just start moving away from you. So he's getting it to start going to the right, and then it sweeps back left, like, similar to Rafa's So like, Mike, if you're on the middle, it's going like this. It's bouncing here and then going like that.

Chris Eubanks (44:13)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (44:14)

It doesn't hit and mitigate the spin, but like his ability to like, start a second serve on your backhand side and then by the time. And then all of a sudden you're t rexed on your. On your forehand side. Like it was. You didn't know what was coming. And it was all off the same toss. It wasn't like Roger, where he's throwing. He's throwing a million different tosses around. It's slightly over his head where it looks like it could be a kick serve. And then he's. He's hitting a 122 swinger that has four feet of movement on it. Like, is that all in his wrist? I played him three times. Like, like, what.

Sean (44:44)

What is. What is. Why is he able to do that off the same toss?

Andy Roddick (44:46)

One that like, the shoulders are a joke. You can pick him up.

Chris Eubanks (44:49)

He's. Yeah. I was going to ask you. Is that true? He's like double joiner or something weird.

Andy Roddick (44:52)

So for those of you who are listening and can't see, I have. I'm trying to put like the backs of my palms together and I can't. And I have a freak of a shoulder. Just so we're clear, right.

Sean (45:01)

You just cry. You just cry.

Andy Roddick (45:04)

Retirement soda right there. What just happened?

John W. (JW) (45:06)

It sounded like a.

Sean (45:07)

Are you okay?

Andy Roddick (45:08)

I don't know if we have that. That insurance for that shoulder to go quickly. Scar tissue. He could take his shoulders up in a way. Like he would stretch him and it was just elastic.

Chris Eubanks (45:18)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (45:18)

Like, it was. It was a joke. Like, could take him from here. Like, not bend his arms and take them and finish behind his. Wild behind us. Like, possible. And then you have like the handsy stuff. Like every single person that we're going to have on this list has the ability to come from here and turn at the last second of pronate out. Right?

Sean (45:37)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (45:37)

The other thing that is like a non starter and I've seen some people say, like it doesn't matter. They're wrong. I know more about serving than they do. Becker deep knee bend. Sampras deep knee bend. The thrust that Pete Sampras got from his legs into every single serve. That's what creates motion. That's what creates spin.

Chris Eubanks (45:58)

I'll go back and forth with you on that because I find it. Because I feel like we just go

Andy Roddick (46:03)

through your list and then tell me.

Chris Eubanks (46:04)

No, no, no, let's do it. Yes. Those two, deep knee bend. Both of them. There are other guys have deep knee bend. I think for certain people, the quicker action down and up, it's just more effective than the deeper knee bend. I think, like, Goron had a very quick motion. His knee bend, it was not like sinking down and then coming up, it was very boom, boom. And I think you can generate more force.

Andy Roddick (46:23)

He's my next on my list. I was literally going to use him as someone who has a deep knee bend.

Chris Eubanks (46:27)

You said Gordon's was a deep, really deep knee.

Andy Roddick (46:29)

It was deep when he aced me 46 times in four sets at Wimbledon.

Chris Eubanks (46:33)

He's gonna throw out, like, the personal. I can say to that. Like, what am I gonna say? Oh, okay.

Andy Roddick (46:36)

I don't know. I'm telling you.

Chris Eubanks (46:38)

Like, just let me ask you a question.

Andy Roddick (46:39)

If you're gonna need less if you pull your. Your. Your foot up.

Chris Eubanks (46:43)

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Which. Go on it.

Andy Roddick (46:44)

Yeah.

Chris Eubanks (46:45)

But think of it this way. If you're trying to jump, like, you had to do a vertical test, are you gonna go as deep? Like, you're gonna go for a deep knee bend or you're gonna go quick action to get down and up? If you're, like, in terms of jumping, I think you generate a bit more force with a quick down and up. Guys who do the combine, it's like a quick motion versus, like, this low sinking and then trying to go out. I feel like there's a point on the deep knee bend where you get where it's like, I really can't explode as much out of here as I did if I had been a little bit quicker.

Andy Roddick (47:10)

Yeah, but there are guys on Earth you can't explode out of that. And that's what they're. No, no, no. That's why they're the best servers of all time.

Chris Eubanks (47:15)

I think that you have to have the deep knee bend in order to have a great serve.

Andy Roddick (47:18)

Like, I think six foot eight, like you.

Chris Eubanks (47:20)

Okay. Maybe that's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at from a height standpoint.

Andy Roddick (47:22)

Like, look at all the people that you're going to name. Yeah. There's no one who's six foot one like Sampras, who serves like he does, who doesn't go deep Fed.

Chris Eubanks (47:31)

I'm looking at the height, too.

Andy Roddick (47:32)

I didn't think of the height like, the height, obviously. Like, I would have been a Great server from 7ft. I was only 6:2.

John W. (JW) (47:38)

Right.

Andy Roddick (47:38)

Like that matters.

Chris Eubanks (47:39)

Yeah. Would you consider yourself. You had a deep knee bend.

Andy Roddick (47:41)

Yeah.

Chris Eubanks (47:42)

Yeah, I guess it was a quick motion. It was a quicker motion.

Andy Roddick (47:45)

You're equating quick with no knee bend?

Sean (47:46)

No, no, no.

Chris Eubanks (47:47)

I'm not saying no knee bend. There has to be knee bend. I'm just saying I've seen certain guys.

Andy Roddick (47:51)

Dude, my ass is huge. Like, that's where everything came from. Like, I could box someone out. I could have played, you know, I would have played in basketball. I would have played two positions bigger than my height. Like, that's just like, that all matters.

Sean (48:04)

I'm trying to find one.

Andy Roddick (48:05)

Come on. Yeah, Goron's next on my list. Okay, I played him and I already buried my lead on this because I had to try to win an argument against you. He would toss it over his head this way, be going this way, and then would hit a slight. Like he had. I don't know what the exact number is. He had over 40 aces against me. I played him the year that he won Wimbledon.

Chris Eubanks (48:29)

Oh, that year when he was like 120 or something. He came back.

Andy Roddick (48:32)

Google Gorny V. Knee bend and we'll put up the still.

Chris Eubanks (48:35)

Okay, Please do, please do.

Andy Roddick (48:37)

He slings himself forward. Well, no, this is the other thing we have to do is you have to remember he had had six knee surgeries by the time this photo.

Chris Eubanks (48:44)

Notice how there's more caveats coming out. There's a lot more also. Look, look, Andy, you think that's a deep. Like, you would consider that deep?

Andy Roddick (48:52)

Well, one.

Chris Eubanks (48:53)

He's tall. Let's.

Sean (48:54)

Let's just.

Chris Eubanks (48:54)

Let's ask him what the height. Sure, dude, I'm looking at the guy.

Andy Roddick (48:57)

Give me a 92. And like.

Chris Eubanks (48:59)

Okay.

Andy Roddick (48:59)

It's very different. Like, he. He was a man. He was a. He was a. He was a mannequin by the time he finished his career.

Chris Eubanks (49:04)

Deeper than that one?

Andy Roddick (49:05)

Yeah, it's a little.

Chris Eubanks (49:08)

Okay. All right, to your point, the height

Andy Roddick (49:10)

makes it compared to anyone else who's six, six or six, seven.

Chris Eubanks (49:13)

Fair.

Andy Roddick (49:13)

That's deeper.

Chris Eubanks (49:14)

Fair.

Andy Roddick (49:14)

Obviously, height matters because we're about to get to that portion of the show. Okay, but Goron, as far as, like, leftiness, he could hit. He could almost hit like an inside out serve away from you on the deuce side. And then you had to respect his lefty cut also. Oh. Because the ability to kind of toss it. The other thing with, like, a lot of great servers, they kind of toss it like over their head.

Chris Eubanks (49:35)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (49:35)

Back over their head a little bit,

Chris Eubanks (49:36)

which you would think takes away from the cut. Like, better for the better for this

Andy Roddick (49:40)

one to your Point like the guys who can like deep knee bend and thrust and get out of that position.

Chris Eubanks (49:44)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (49:45)

End up being the best servers. The guys like Pete, the guys who can hit a cut off of like a toss that's not a cut toss. All of a sudden they've just, they've expanded the. Yeah, they've made you like into a mannequin. Goran. I literally spent three hours just walking sideline to sideline first, second serve. Didn't, didn't have a second serve when I played him. Didn't have a second serve. Just hit a slightly slower first serve.

Chris Eubanks (50:05)

Kind of like Pete. That's the other thing I would like.

Andy Roddick (50:07)

Pete felt like more of a second serve to me. Maybe it was just a lefty thing and I couldn't read Goron's thing as well. Like the other thing about Pete, before we get like we're jumping back and forth. I beat Pete the first two times we played. I was 140 in the world and he was three. And then I played him again the next year in Houston and I was like, I mean he's great, but like, like I didn't hate the matchup right then. I played him in 02 when he won his last Grand Slam. And I'm like, I think I'm the favorite in this match. Like, I think I'm going to, I think I'm going to beat Pete Sampras. Chris, I'll tell you one thing. Pete Sampras in the finals in the quarters of the U.S. open vs. Pete Sampras in the finals of the Houston clay courts slightly different. He beat my ass 4, 2 and 3. Fastest guy I've ever seen. He came in on a first serve against me in the first set, knocked off a volley and then just looked at me and flicked his eyebrows sweat at me. He loved that one.

Chris Eubanks (51:06)

That was his thing, man. That right there.

Andy Roddick (51:08)

He gave me this way. He did it. He kind of did the little shoulder thing and he went. I was like, I'm dead. It's like two all in the first set. I'm like this. And it was a different. I felt like he turned back the clock six years in that match. And I was like, I understand. Okay, I understand. Who's Michael and who's Tito now? I, I get it. I, I fully understand. It was different than what I had seen the previous two times. Cuz I played him one straight sets both times.

Chris Eubanks (51:31)

Can you talk a little bit like. Because we touched on it for a split second, but Pete's second is the thing that everyone Loves to mention about how big he used to hit it but I hear it was really heavy. Like when it. Somebody told me that they were playing him. They had practiced with him many times and they played sets and everything's fine. Then they played him in a match for the first time and they said in the warm up the sound of his serve when they were taking serves, hitting the wall was way different than anything they had experienced on the practice court and said the second serve felt heavy as well.

Andy Roddick (52:01)

I asked Pete one time, he was not the chattiest person that's ever lived and I had a flight with him. We were going to play an exhibition in Greenbrier and we both started in la.

Chris Eubanks (52:12)

And were you talking his ear off the whole time?

Andy Roddick (52:15)

Most of the time. So we actually get along. We shouldn't but we get along well. So we go from LA and I'm like, you know, you get on the plane, he puts his headphones on, doesn't want. And Pete has always been super gracious to me, right. Like for some reason we were fine. Maybe we didn't grow up together. We weren't like, you know, so. But we get there and I was like, can I, can we just talk about 10 for like an hour. He's like, yeah, there's no one else on the, on the flight. Just me and him. Like this is a dream for me and for him he's like, God, fuck. And obviously it was his flight. I was just a passenger. Like it's very, very different. And so I was like the thing that I can't understand is I saw you lose to so many hackers in practice. Like at Saddlebrook, I went to school there. He was playing, could never win a practice. He had this ability. Roger's the only other one that I've ever seen have this ability. Like Chris, if you lost three straight days of practice Thursday through Saturday before you had.

Chris Eubanks (53:07)

It's a wrap for me mentally going

Andy Roddick (53:08)

into a match before you had to play a Monday at a slam, you'd be like dead. I'm going to go out there and I'm a struggle. I'm going to try to get to a breaker. I'm going to just try to. And I was like, how he goes. The light goes on. It's just always different. Like I know I can do it with a light on. I know that most of earth can't do it with the light on. He goes, it doesn't matter. Like I just need to feel, I need to stay in shape, I need to move like I need to kind of create some muscle memory. Goes, it doesn't matter what I do. I go, I couldn't do that. I had to win every practice set I ever played. And if I didn't, it was like, I played them the same matches in practice. I played the exact same. I get in fights in practice matches. Like, I'm an idiot. And he's like, I just knew when I reached back it was going to be there. I'm like, confidence, God. Right? Like, how do you do that? Like, always? He goes, yeah, like, pretty much always. I mean, there's other times, like, you're struggling more than the other. But, like, he goes, oh, two. I lose to George Bastow at Wimbledon. Like, I'm trying to find it. He goes, but I know it's there. Then he walks off his career two months later at the US Open. Beats Andre in the final. Like, when Andre is playing great and Roger's the same, you see Roger lose six, two practice sets. My biggest envy point with Roger ever was, like, I would be, like, a sweaty mess, right? Like, just disgustingly, like, dirt all over myself. Passing his court in Rome, I had just finished an hour and a half practice. Looked like I was, you know, building the court, not playing on it. And then I'd walk by, and he's just for an hour, he's like, smiling. He's like, hey, Roger, we love you.

Sean (54:39)

He's like, I love you, too.

Andy Roddick (54:40)

I'm like, I don't love anyone when I'm practicing. Like, not. It's like, my biggest point of enemy isn't the titles. It's the ease of operation.

Chris Eubanks (54:46)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (54:46)

And, like, just knowing that you're that good to where it's like, you know it's going to be there. Someone might be better for one tournament, but, like, you know, like. And Pete was the ultimate example. Like, would just completely go through the motions in practice sets. Then two weeks later, he's won't. He's holding the trophy.

Sean (55:02)

Can I ask you guys something about kind of that mental side of things and knowing that it's there? Like, with great servers, we don't know.

Andy Roddick (55:09)

I said.

Sean (55:10)

I said. I meant the people on the list that were talking about how much of that is that they can get in there and just focus everything out. And, like, they. They probably don't ever have, like, a spell of the yips. These people that are the Grinch.

Andy Roddick (55:22)

I mean, there's no.

Chris Eubanks (55:23)

It's just the confidence in the show.

Sean (55:25)

That's what I'm asking.

Andy Roddick (55:25)

I can't relate to Pete knowing That I can't relate to. Like playing like shit for a week and then just knowing you're going to play well like that I don't understand at all. I go. But serving. You knew this is one of the biggest strengths of like, even if you're not playing well, you know you're going to get through holds. Like, you know, maybe it's not a. Maybe you're not pitching eight innings of shutout ball, but you have six innings and two earned if you're a great server or pitcher. Like, I knew that I could even I was playing like, like, like shit. I knew that I could hold serve most the time. Like that's a huge. And scoreboard pressure matters. Like we'll get to that later in this. This list a little bit. But like scoreboard pressure for a server. If you could roll, if you were holding 90% of your service games, like, you don't have to play as well to break when you serve as well as they did.

Chris Eubanks (56:10)

Because although your opponent is so tight, they're so nervous. A love 15 feels like almost a break point. Like a love 15 will feel like a love 30. Like any points you lose that goes against you. Like if I lose this game, set's over. So that scoreboard pressure, another.

Andy Roddick (56:23)

Another one of the things that like being a great server allowed Pete to do and he was. This goes back to his thing. Like, I know it's going to be there. One of the biggest thing that Andre tells me when he's like, listen, if I had to go back and give you advice is like, you were almost good enough from the baseline to where you would work guys rhythm. He's like, I would get into like, all I wanted to do was settle in. And I knew that you were going to give me a rally seven, eight balls. Because you couldn't just hit winners, right. If I was hitting it well. So like you almost needed to be worse to be better. Pete told me the exact same thing on that flight.

Chris Eubanks (56:57)

Wow.

Andy Roddick (56:58)

He was like, yeah, I didn't care. Like I would just go for a winner. And then all of a sudden he goes. When I go to like that 78 ball rally, they haven't hit a shot in 40 minutes. But like knowing that you can miss that many balls and then that it's like using it almost as like a strategy. It's like, I can't. I needed to feel good.

Chris Eubanks (57:15)

Yeah. But also let's. Something else to think about is the, the era in which you played. Obviously, yes, you won the Open early 2000s, but you continued to play all the way to what, 2012?

Andy Roddick (57:25)

Yeah.

Chris Eubanks (57:26)

I felt like the game, guys from the ground started to returning, court started to slow down, returner started to get better. Like everything started to change. So I don't know if that kind of hit miss kind of mentality would have benefited you as much as the way that you did. Because at the end of the day, number one in the world, grand slam title, like, what else do they want you to do? Like, oh, you should have got four or five. It's like, yeah, well, sure. But the competition in which you were going with in your physical prime.

Andy Roddick (57:50)

Yeah.

Chris Eubanks (57:51)

The game courts were slowing down, the opponents were better from the ground. I think it was a little different. Like Pete was affording.

Andy Roddick (57:56)

Pete's also when Andre is starting, when Andre is telling me this. Andre retired in 06. Right. So like he's going from before. What the point that you're mentioning.

Chris Eubanks (58:05)

Yes, his history. That's my point.

Andy Roddick (58:07)

To your point?

Chris Eubanks (58:07)

Yeah.

John W. (JW) (58:07)

Yeah.

Chris Eubanks (58:08)

It's like their perception is like, you know, they're. If you're playing a lot of guys who are coming in.

Andy Roddick (58:12)

Lux would not have favored Pete. That would not have helped his game.

Chris Eubanks (58:14)

Yeah. He would have had to change his technology big time.

Andy Roddick (58:17)

He would have figured out he would have the best of it. Like when people are like, oh, well, would he have been like, would Rafa been able to play? He couldn't have played with wood racket. He would have figured it out. Yeah. Like the bet. Maybe he doesn't win 20 something majors, he wins six. He's still one of the greatest players of all time. Like, and the what if game never ends. But I think you're right. But I think the point, like the overriding point that I'm trying to make is like, imagine not making a ball for a half hour and then knowing that you can rip city.

Chris Eubanks (58:42)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (58:42)

And make one like, to the point where you can use it as a strategy. Like, absurd. Now we get into the height Olympics.

Chris Eubanks (58:48)

Okay.

Andy Roddick (58:49)

Right. Two best serves I've ever seen. Not best servers. Right. Like, Pete's a great server, but he was six foot one. We covered that. Right. The best serves that I've ever seen, where it's like you put them on any human and their serve is better. Karlovich Isner. Yes. And I don't know how you get around it.

Chris Eubanks (59:06)

Yep.

Andy Roddick (59:06)

Karlovich couldn't hit a slice serve. And yet he would beat you here by six feet just because he could snap it off.

Chris Eubanks (59:11)

Yep.

Andy Roddick (59:12)

The two best servers I've ever seen. Seven. You know, you can't teach height. Seven feet helps, I think.

Chris Eubanks (59:17)

I think John's motion technically. Talk about a deep knee bend. He is a guy with a deep knee and a big guy, too.

Andy Roddick (59:23)

Best server of all time. Six foot eleven.

Chris Eubanks (59:24)

Here we go.

Andy Roddick (59:25)

Deep knee.

Chris Eubanks (59:25)

Let me get back on topic here, because he's going to keep just going back.

Andy Roddick (59:28)

Not until I make my point 18 more times.

Chris Eubanks (59:30)

Okay. All right, Got it. Fair point. Fair point. But I think if you take John serve, you put it on someone 6:3. His motion, from a technical standpoint, it is one of the most sound we talk about Pete's. He has the platform motion. He has a. His foot up. But John's tech, like his service motion, you could take it at 6 11, 7ft to 6 1, and it's still going to be an incredible serve.

Andy Roddick (59:48)

I agree. I agree fully. Isner could go up and down the R like he was another one. Where you played him in practice, you would break him.

Sean (59:54)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (59:55)

He would serve 122.

Chris Eubanks (59:57)

He would dial back, man.

Andy Roddick (59:58)

He would.

Chris Eubanks (59:58)

Just because he wants to play from

Andy Roddick (59:59)

the ground, he also. He had the ability to dial up

Chris Eubanks (60:02)

the register in when he wanted to. In practice.

Andy Roddick (60:04)

No, like, in matches. Like, he was a, like, adrenaline server.

Chris Eubanks (60:09)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (60:10)

Like, his second serve, when, like, the chips were down, he would. That. And also, like Pete's second serve, we didn't get to finishing the point. It, like, tumbled at you. Yeah, right. It wasn't like a break kick where it's like lands here and spikes that way. It was like a. A tumble. You had to cover 115 on the ad side tee. And then also he would go, you know, 112 kick wide. Yeah, right. But it was a fast second serve. He beat you with pace in the second serve.

Chris Eubanks (60:32)

Right.

Andy Roddick (60:33)

And the fact that you couldn't sell out completely to one side. John Isner hits kick serves where it's like he would hit it and you would just start laughing.

Chris Eubanks (60:42)

Yeah, yeah. So true. He was so true.

Andy Roddick (60:45)

No, like, he would hit one and it's like you could be leaning there. He made you look stupid. Like, it would. It'd be like. It'd be like putting on a blindfold, knowing that a pinata was somewhere in a field and trying to hit it. Like, it was so dumb. To the point where when we would practice and like, warm up for him, I remember Larry Stefanke standing three feet inside the service line and literally just hitting down. So the other thing, as a returner, like, Pete had a massive serve, but you're striking it in the same place that you would Strike most returns, right? It's like, yes, the strike. It's like by your, you know, just below your shoulder or something. Maybe a kick gets above Isner's is. Is a foot higher. So you're like swatting it backhands as opposed to even like bringing your left hand into it. Your left hand is like, if I was to give you a high five straight on versus like slapping side to side. That's the difference like the height. How are you going to knock something down that's over your head?

Sean (61:33)

And that's coming from being six'11.

Chris Eubanks (61:35)

It's a jump being six'11. And then so the counter to that is typically. You have to get in closer. You gotta get in a little bit. And now once he sees that, say you get on top of one or

Andy Roddick (61:45)

two, he can hit it all spots.

Chris Eubanks (61:46)

He'll then go a heart cut right into you. Maybe even go T. I can remember I practiced with Johnny.

Andy Roddick (61:50)

He just does it again. Like hit the kick from there. Go.

Sean (61:52)

Yeah.

Chris Eubanks (61:52)

He's like, let me see you do it multiple times.

Andy Roddick (61:54)

Keep going. We.

Chris Eubanks (61:55)

I had our practice with John and Acapulco in the heat of the day. Jumpy bouncy conditions. And he was with McPherson, was there with a Macker. And we warm up. We say, all right, let's play some points. We're going to go tiebreaker all second serves. Neither we could not get into a point, couldn't make a return because the conditions in Acapulco at heat of the day. So live. So jumpy Macker goes, let's just try first serves then, like, because it was literally like struggling to make get into really good points. We went first serves. It was a lot easier to kind of manage because now the ball isn't getting as high in hot conditions. The ball jumps a lot more as well. So we're at like one o' clock heat of the day. Balls are jumping even more.

Andy Roddick (62:31)

But neither one of you is like a knockdown pinchy returner either.

Chris Eubanks (62:34)

Yeah, exactly.

Andy Roddick (62:34)

Like you're not like melting them into there. We're both sitting there just fighting for our top five returners of all time. Wouldn't be Eubanks. And is there. I'll tell you how much right now.

Sean (62:43)

I mean.

Andy Roddick (62:44)

Yeah, but the more. Other factors. Other factors.

Chris Eubanks (62:47)

But I will say the quality of returning got a lot better when we started going first serves because now it's just coming hard more in the strike zone that we're used to now we can block one and get into the point.

Andy Roddick (62:55)

To your point, like if you put John Isner serve against an amateur and told him to hit one 140 at them, they're more likely to get wood on it than if.

Chris Eubanks (63:01)

Yes, yes.

Andy Roddick (63:02)

It's a 107 kick. Like, it would be like you.

Chris Eubanks (63:05)

Because they just go further back. They just almost stand at the idea and try to.

Andy Roddick (63:08)

Like, no idea. Like, it would be the dumbest thing you've ever seen. Yeah, but, like, we can say it's not. Like, like, well, can the best server not be Pete? I'm like, yeah, like, the best serve of all time is Isar and Karlovich. Now, the best server, like, pitching a ball game, chips down. Like, all that. Like, I don't know how to differentiate between server and, like, the best serve. Yeah. Because they're different. And I want to get.

Sean (63:30)

There are two guys, Randy Johnson and Greg Maddox.

Andy Roddick (63:32)

Correct.

Chris Eubanks (63:32)

Yeah, great analogy.

Andy Roddick (63:34)

Greg Maddox doesn't have the best stuff

Chris Eubanks (63:35)

of all time, but he knows how to use it.

Andy Roddick (63:38)

But he could be the best pitcher of all time. Yeah, right. Like, and those are differentiated somehow, especially with serving. I have Roger on this list.

Chris Eubanks (63:47)

Of course.

Andy Roddick (63:47)

I want to keep Roger and Andre separate because, Andre, I challenged you before we went on. I said, think of a server under 6ft tall. Andre, just wait. I have one other one. But, like, I need to explain it. Okay, I know we're talking about people we've played and or watched. Like, it starts with, I played most of the guys on this list, except for Becker. Everyone on this list except for Becker. Richard Krychuk needs to be in the conversation. Talk about smooth.

Chris Eubanks (64:12)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (64:12)

Oh, that serve is a repeater, man. Like, my serve looked like work his serve. Like, forget about it. I know we're talking about people we played. I can't in good faith have a best servers list without putting Serena on it. I know it doesn't fit what we're talking about. 100%. I also don't care. Her name at least needs to be mentioned for us to have any credibility. 100% at all. Okay, now, who am I missing? Who do you have that I don't have?

Chris Eubanks (64:34)

I've got somebody. I didn't watch. I don't know if you watched, but the legend of him kind of lives on. Wayne Arthur's.

Andy Roddick (64:40)

Oh, joke.

Chris Eubanks (64:40)

Lefty said he was serving 140 at a time in, like, the 90s. I was like, what?

Andy Roddick (64:45)

I played him. I played him three times. Okay, 100%.

Chris Eubanks (64:49)

It was that big.

Andy Roddick (64:50)

It was serving 135.

Chris Eubanks (64:51)

140 miles an hour is the way

Andy Roddick (64:53)

that the big, like, like, my whole thing with all of them, like. And this is from someone who, like, is known for serving hard. Yep. The movement. Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Chris Eubanks (65:01)

He was a lefty.

John W. (JW) (65:02)

He would.

Andy Roddick (65:03)

And he actually threw. He was a lefty and he threw his toss out to the left.

Chris Eubanks (65:08)

So it was more of, like, a cut.

Andy Roddick (65:09)

It looked like he was gonna cut everyone, but he would. He would hit a flat one off of that cut toss. What? Yeah, and then the. I'm about to fuck you up even more. So then he would. He would hit this little. He had this little bunny kick where he would hit it about 92, but he would kick it to your forehand. So he would throw it out here. And so you obviously have to check step left. And then he would throw this thing out and it would hit and it would, like, it not as big as his nerd.

Chris Eubanks (65:33)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (65:33)

But, like, it would have that. That, like, jump. And so, like, you've never hit a kick serve to your forehand ever.

John W. (JW) (65:39)

Slow.

Andy Roddick (65:39)

It was the most awkward hundred percent. He belongs in this list. Like, you know, didn't return well. Couldn't move. Didn't. I mean, no other tour level. Level skills. I love when the nicest guy, like, you remember the people who were nice to you.

Chris Eubanks (65:53)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (65:53)

When you first came out. And he was always so nice. I also saw him do one of the coolest things I've ever seen in my life. You ready? All right. So we're at Delray Beach. Delray beach, the basketball court.

Chris Eubanks (66:04)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (66:05)

So the players lunch, basically. This is old rundown. Yeah, it's an old gym. Has a basketball hoop. So, like, one side is basketball hoop, the other side is like couches and whatever. I was talking to Wayne Arthur's. I'm like. I was like, you're like, what does your shoulder do? I go, are you good at other things? Like, are you good at, like, throwing a ball? Are you good at. You know? And he's like. He's like, yeah, I'm pretty good. I watched him sitting down. So if you went to the. If you went to the three point line, like, not side three, not middle three, but then you went back, like nine feet.

Chris Eubanks (66:34)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (66:34)

He's in a chair, sitting just off the basketball court. A ball rolls to him. He rolls to him. He picks it up. I just asked him if he was good at other stuff. Throws it with one hand, a basketball Drano.

Chris Eubanks (66:51)

And goes, no chance.

Andy Roddick (66:52)

And he goes, yes.

Chris Eubanks (66:53)

No chance. No shit. See, this is how these stories, these legends start to go to this never video. It's never other People's account.

Andy Roddick (67:02)

You're just making. I'm sorry, do you know.

Sean (67:04)

Were you.

Andy Roddick (67:04)

Are you old enough to know what a flip phone is? Like, how do we get video? You're telling me right on cue when

Chris Eubanks (67:10)

you ask him that question.

Andy Roddick (67:11)

Maybe it was five minutes before, but, like, I'm telling you, it was like. It was basically like, are you good? And I watched him. Maybe it's a day. I don't. It was a day. I literally saw him pick a ball up. We're getting caught up in the weeds. I saw him pick a ball up, take it, throw it. Probably while sitting. 36 footer. While sitting Drano.

Chris Eubanks (67:29)

I'm like, that's insane.

Andy Roddick (67:32)

When all you do is watch the best athletes all the time and then someone does something. So, like, obnoxious. It was the. One of the craziest things. I'm so happy you said his name just so I could think of that story.

Chris Eubanks (67:42)

And he was so chill about it. Like, he did it.

Andy Roddick (67:43)

Oh, he, like, gives you a smart. He's like an Aussie laid back guy. Like, kind of like he was in on the joke. He knew he was a great. A great server. He's a great dude. Like, he knew, like, he wasn't gonna win a lot of baseline games. Like, you know, he wasn't gonna win a sprint.

Chris Eubanks (67:53)

Wow.

Andy Roddick (67:54)

And it was the craziest thing I've ever seen.

Chris Eubanks (67:55)

I love. I love when I hear, like, these stories, like these legends that just get passed down and they're here, and it just doesn't sound believable.

Andy Roddick (68:01)

And then you ask them, and then

Chris Eubanks (68:02)

they're like, yeah, Like, I'm like, what?

Andy Roddick (68:04)

Like, that's insane. That messed me up.

Chris Eubanks (68:07)

That's insane. How tall was Wayne also? Because I met him, he was coaching an Australian in Korea. I saw him, felt way bigger.

Andy Roddick (68:12)

Not that tall. His arms are long. That's another factor in all of this.

Chris Eubanks (68:15)

Okay, okay.

Andy Roddick (68:16)

You got those long arm guy. Like, so he was probably 6:3, but his arms were, like, 6:7.

Chris Eubanks (68:22)

Okay.

Andy Roddick (68:22)

You know, so anyway, so I'm gonna save Roger and Andre because I want to explain this.

Chris Eubanks (68:26)

I can fly through some of these.

Andy Roddick (68:27)

Do it, Milos. Oh, joke.

Chris Eubanks (68:29)

Gotta throw Melosh.

Andy Roddick (68:30)

Long arms.

Chris Eubanks (68:31)

Talk about long arms.

Andy Roddick (68:32)

That guy can touch his toes without bending.

Chris Eubanks (68:34)

Deep knee bend, too.

Andy Roddick (68:35)

Deep knee bend, Deep knee bend. And tall and tall equals best server.

Chris Eubanks (68:38)

I don't know what I'm talking about. Okay, help me out on a few of these. Hinman, Philippus's rafter.

Andy Roddick (68:45)

No, on Henman. Henman's another one of the guys, like, he can do anything. He can. He. He could run the table and pool. He's a plus three golfer. He's good at everything.

Chris Eubanks (68:54)

He's gifted his.

Andy Roddick (68:55)

His control the racket face. One of the best chips ever. Like, driving chips, not like spinny chips. Driving it through Rafter. Massive kid. Never played him.

Chris Eubanks (69:04)

Massive kick, though. Everyone always talks about the kick.

Andy Roddick (69:06)

Massive kick.

John W. (JW) (69:07)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (69:08)

But also, like, jumpy. Like, it would almost stop and then take a turn at a time in

Chris Eubanks (69:12)

which the courts were faster. And so those are, like, the faster the courts are, the smoother they are, which means the harder it is to get the ball to jump.

Andy Roddick (69:17)

He had, like, the big tumbler, too, though.

Chris Eubanks (69:19)

Well, I'm saying, like, if you can make it kick on a slick, fast court, like, that's a.

Andy Roddick (69:23)

That on.

Chris Eubanks (69:24)

Well, slow court is jumping over your head.

Andy Roddick (69:26)

He would, like. He. He was one of the ones who could, like, tumble it into Andre. Like, but he's also one of the most athletic, just absolute.

Chris Eubanks (69:33)

Just units.

Andy Roddick (69:34)

Yeah. Rafter is one of my favorite people ever. Like, he's just like a dude. Like, he's great, but he's not like a ballerina like Edberg. You know what he is? He's like Rafa, but a certain volley.

Chris Eubanks (69:45)

Yes. Yes.

Sean (69:46)

That's what he is.

Chris Eubanks (69:47)

That's a great comparison.

Andy Roddick (69:49)

Who else did you have?

Chris Eubanks (69:50)

Philip Hoosis Bomb.

Andy Roddick (69:51)

Had him written here when he first came out. You felt like you were watching Becker again.

Chris Eubanks (69:56)

Really?

Andy Roddick (69:57)

It was like he would thump the ball, like, off of both sides. Like, Pete would, like, pure the ball. This guy was just blunt force trauma. I. I didn't play him when he was, like, prime. I. I played him after he'd had, you know, teenies, two knee surgeries.

Chris Eubanks (70:12)

Okay.

Andy Roddick (70:13)

Right. Sent me a text the other day. Apparently has, like, a new. The clothing brand. So shout out to flip. Go look that up. We can see. I'll. I'll get. We'll get in the next show notes,

Chris Eubanks (70:20)

but and one more before you get into Roger, I want to talk about your sir, because, like, we talked about pound for pound, like you. I feel like growing up and watching it, watching you.

Andy Roddick (70:30)

You.

Chris Eubanks (70:31)

You were like the first guy that I remember that wasn't that six, five, six. I used to hear about the Krychiks and the Gorons and these guys who were dominant servers.

Andy Roddick (70:41)

I was all knee bend, but back

Chris Eubanks (70:43)

to the knee bend. But like, in terms of a guy, what are you?

Andy Roddick (70:47)

6, 3, 6, 2.

Chris Eubanks (70:48)

6 2. Coming out on court with. With one shot. Like, in terms of. We talk about like, what do the opponents fear? What do they think of when they see Andy Roddick coming across the net? It's the serve like that. And a guy who's 62 with the ability, obviously physical from the ground. You were in great shape. You had a rocket of a forehand. But I think it was the serve that built this studio.

Andy Roddick (71:07)

Yeah,

Chris Eubanks (71:09)

it's the serve. And I know you don't like talking about yourself, but just as someone who's watched and kind of gone back and looked at video and compared to other players, I'm like, the guy was six two coming out there, dropping off. What are you, like top five or six in ACEs? Like in the history of the ATB? Like, just dialing up spots whenever you need it. And it's like your mentality on your serve, did you go on court feeling like. Well, I know you spoke about, you know, when you work with coaches, you told them, do not mess with my serve. I got that. So you knew that your serve was an all time great serve.

Andy Roddick (71:34)

Yeah, I'm assuming. I always think, like, the great servers, you can almost like, if you snap three times, you could start timing them and it's never off.

Chris Eubanks (71:40)

Okay.

Andy Roddick (71:41)

Right. Like, so I knew, like, I would almost like do a silent count. That was my only training mechanism. The first three or four serves I hit, it was like, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, two. And I could get that going over and over again. I knew that I could create spin margin. Right. And because I could create that spin margin, like, the big serves were great. Those are table setters for the cuts, the slices and the kicks. And so like, my ball was never coming through the same way.

Chris Eubanks (72:07)

So you use the missile to set up the cuts and not the cuts to open up for like chicken, depending

Andy Roddick (72:12)

on who you're playing. Is chicken egg. Okay. Like, if I play someone, if I'm playing catching strays here and sorry. If I'm playing like Lopez, I know that I'm like Feliciano. I know that I'm probably playing 65 or 70% wide. Yeah, right. Like, because then I can approach if he even gets it. But like, so it depends on who you're playing. Off speed stuff works more against great returners.

Chris Eubanks (72:32)

Yep.

Andy Roddick (72:33)

Like, you can't just bowl over great returners with a straight ball. I don't care if it's 147, Roger. There's like a famous one where we were playing the quarters of the Open.

Chris Eubanks (72:42)

Oh, I remember that.

Andy Roddick (72:43)

I put 1 like 143 at like

Chris Eubanks (72:45)

5 all in a breaker backhand right Backhand body return right at your feet.

Andy Roddick (72:49)

I was like, shank. I was like, I don't. Like, he knows I don't know what I'm going to. I don't know what I'm doing yet with the serve. And he already knows. Yeah, like, he's going to. He's already chosen what I'm going to do, and I don't know what I'm going to do.

Chris Eubanks (72:58)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (72:59)

So I'm like, all right, I'm going heat backhand. Like, this is. You know, I'm just going to. Let's. Let's dance. With who? He brought bomb 143. His racket moved about this much. His face was loose at contact.

Chris Eubanks (73:13)

At contact. Talked about this.

Sean (73:15)

The slow mo shot of that, and he put it.

Andy Roddick (73:17)

Oh, the offensive. The Aussie cameras. The slow mo cameras. Have you.

Chris Eubanks (73:20)

Yeah, I didn't see him.

Andy Roddick (73:21)

Oh, my God. That's another side tangent. But he puts it on my feet, and it's like, okay, set over. Comes and hits like a. I just went 143. Then he aces me with, like, 112 middle. I'm like, this sucks so much. Tennis sucks. Tennis is so hard.

Sean (73:32)

He's third on the list for aces.

Andy Roddick (73:34)

Yeah, that's a volume thing. He played something years ago. Yeah, I. I knew I could create action. The one thing that I. I think is undersold. People talk about speed, and I think that's maybe the third most important thing. I went into higher year serving. I didn't, like, lay a lot of serves in, and I served 70%. So, like, Zverev is doing that now. Zverev 6 percentage.

Chris Eubanks (73:56)

Yep.

Andy Roddick (73:56)

But I have way more. Like, Zvera is better at every other part of tennis than I ever was. Movement, forehands, backhands, like, all of it. Just leave it. Maybe my chip was better than his, but, like, my serve had way more movement. Like, I can get it. I can do that little check kick that we were talking about. I can do the tumble into the body. So I had, like, options, and I could control that spin trajectory really well. And I think that was the thing that maybe was. Was. Was different.

Chris Eubanks (74:20)

And you. You talked about it when we were on court. I thought where you were going to go with it was you were saying, people talk about the speed, they talk about the location, but you like to aim deep in the box, which to me was a mentality. Okay, fair enough. So it was kind of like, I'm not Jon Ezzer.

Sean (74:35)

I explain that a little bit more for the charts.

Andy Roddick (74:37)

It's very Easy. The taller you are, the shorter you can hit in the box because you're just hitting down on it and you

Chris Eubanks (74:41)

can create more angle that way. But Andy was saying, like, he liked to aim near the service line. Like, he wanted it deep so that it. If you were to hit. I'm trying to think of best way to say, if you hit a 130 and it lands halfway in the service box, you're going to have a little bit more time to get it than if you hit a 123 on the service line. Because the time in which the opponent has to read and react, it's hard to square.

Andy Roddick (75:03)

It's hard to square. Like, we talk about Hewitt. Hewitt served at the back of the box, but he was. He would serve first serves at 102. Yeah, but it was like eating up the back six inches, so it didn't, like, it didn't click and then get up to where you could. Like, actually, it was still on the rise. Yeah.

Chris Eubanks (75:16)

Just kind of just stayed on the same path.

John W. (JW) (75:18)

Like.

Chris Eubanks (75:18)

Yeah, it's just. It's.

Andy Roddick (75:19)

I also, like, I think. And this is something that, like, we'll get to with the Roger Andre conversation, but something I try to do, too, is, like, I would move my tosses around. So, like, I would try to fuck people up. Like, in the first game, I would go T off of a kick toss, and then I would go T off of a slice toss.

Chris Eubanks (75:33)

Just set the tone.

Andy Roddick (75:33)

Yes.

Chris Eubanks (75:34)

Okay.

Andy Roddick (75:34)

So it's like, okay, I'm fully guessing on what's coming the rest of the day. I would try to hit the Arthur's. Like, I saw him do it, and I'm like, I'm going to try that. It wasn't as good as his, but, like, I could hit a kick toss off of a slice, a kick serve off of a slice toss. So depending on who I was playing, I was very strategic about, like, with James, I wanted the slow kick that jumped up and then checked away from his backhand as opposed to hot into it.

Chris Eubanks (75:54)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (75:54)

Because he, like, so I was very strategic about how to pitch a ballgame. So I had. I had the fastball. But, like, I think I had three breaking pitches, too. And I think that's the difference. And I think people don't really talk about that. And I think that's the whole thing about serving. Right. It's like we talked about Sampras, the movement, gore on the ability to hit all of the serves, every direction off the same toss. Right. The ability to basically create an illusion and then go against it or go with it. Right. Is a huge, huge, huge deal. Roger, if I had a break point against him right now, I don't know where he's serving. I know where he wants to serve, but I don't know where he's serving. He is not scared. It's like weirdly intimidating. Like someone pop, like Pete comes in and you know, pops 1134 and hits it on a dime. That's intimidating its own way. Knowing that Roger's not scared to throw in a 98 mile an hour kick serve.

Chris Eubanks (76:45)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (76:45)

On a first serve is wildly intimidating.

Chris Eubanks (76:48)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (76:49)

Because it's like you're out in front of it. Like I don't know how many times, like you're ready for the. He can goes flat wide, eats up the back of the box to your point. The little curler up the tee, which does not eat up the back of the box. It bounces and kind of just starts running away from you. And then like you're looking for those and all of a sudden he throws in this little bunny kick and you're like, you're so far out in front of it, you kind of like knuckleball one and it's like the easiest walkthrough put away. And those are the type of returns

Chris Eubanks (77:13)

that happen in matches where fans might look and be like, how do you miss? Like, how did you miss slow serve?

Andy Roddick (77:17)

Because I'm looking for seven options.

Chris Eubanks (77:19)

Yeah, it's not, it's not that served

Andy Roddick (77:21)

that was the problem. And like you can make that when you get fooled, but you have to stick it, otherwise you're dead. Like, you can't just like, I could make it a, you know, club Dingles and it's not a problem.

Chris Eubanks (77:31)

Right.

Andy Roddick (77:31)

But like he hits that one, you get fooled, you're fooled and you still know that you have to like against Andre, against Roger, against Rafa, against Novak, you still have to stick it. So then all of a sudden you try to put too much on and you look stupid. Yeah, like that. That's the whole thing. It's not about. He had that little kick serve and he couldn't handle it. Like. No, we could handle it. We just didn't know it was coming.

Chris Eubanks (77:51)

Yeah.

Sean (77:51)

And that's a, that's a big factor in judging who's a great server, you know, of all time. Right. Is that where they get you in a position where then they can just put you away on the, on the return?

Andy Roddick (77:59)

So Andre, not as good of a server as Roger, but like as far as pitching a ballgame he used to

Chris Eubanks (78:04)

throw crazy tosses, didn't he?

Sean (78:05)

His.

Andy Roddick (78:06)

He would hit one out of his ear, like, quick toss, then he would toss one. So like Mike, when you're, when you're returning, it's like you talked about timing people. Like you're timing up a server. Like Chris serves, generally the same cadence. Every time I served, I would throw in ones just to screw with this cadence. But most people, it's like you start, split set time. Split set time. Maybe it's, you know, it's different cadences. Roger and Andre. Roger serve was naturally better. Andre is maybe one of the best pitcher servers ever. And he also knew, and this went into the way he served. He also knew that if you didn't stick it, we talked about that short forehand and not needing time. He's cleaning it to the other side. You can know that he's going wide and then here, and you can't do anything about it. He would throw a toss up three feet higher and then wait for it and flatten it out.

Chris Eubanks (78:58)

And as the returner, you're sitting there like you're completely off now because you're like, whoa, when do I split? I need to slow down. And now you're.

Andy Roddick (79:05)

So now you're starting off the entire time. Always in the outside. You had to respect his kick wide.

Chris Eubanks (79:10)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (79:11)

So. But knowing that you had to clean it. Otherwise he's basically just creating space. He's a second ball server. But his serving strategy complemented the rest of his game along with Roger about as much as anyone ever. So they are great servers. Maybe not the big. Like if you gave me Roger serve or Andre serve, I wouldn't have been a better server. Right. I needed the heat, I needed the options. I needed to be like, you know, extra with ability on serve, but like product market fit with the rest of their game. Like, you give Roger my baseline game and his serving, all of a sudden people can just make returns. Right. But like all of those things matter, you know, all of those things matter. One of the ones, like I told you to have someone under 6ft tall. Andre would qualify for that. But little pop server, like, no one ever talks about their serve. Sebastian Grosjean had a great serve.

Chris Eubanks (79:56)

Really?

Sean (79:56)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (79:57)

He had a little pop kick. He had a little. He could on grass. He was phenomenal.

Chris Eubanks (80:00)

Okay.

Andy Roddick (80:01)

But he was, he was like a good, I don't know, five, nine. Yeah. And it was like he could 129 it to the corners. Had all four serves, had a little bunny kick. He was, he was a Fun server. Who do you have under six feet tall?

Chris Eubanks (80:14)

Six feet tall. I was going to think about Andre because I just heard you talk about him opening up the court with the first ball.

Andy Roddick (80:23)

I jumped the gun on that.

Chris Eubanks (80:25)

Yeah, Carlos is close.

Andy Roddick (80:28)

He's 6ft, but like, yeah, he's still got a lot.

Chris Eubanks (80:30)

I mean, I won't say he's got a lot to work on. Like, I still want to see, like,

Andy Roddick (80:33)

his serve is so much better than it was two years ago. For sure.

Chris Eubanks (80:35)

For sure. Somebody, they're not under 6ft tall. But many players who I've spoken with who played this person say that the one area of his game that doesn't get talked about nearly enough is Novak. They said he's one of the clutchest. And also for people who don't remember what Novak serve used to look like.

Andy Roddick (80:49)

I can tell you what it used to look like.

Chris Eubanks (80:50)

Tell us what it used to look like. And to see what it is now, it just, it's incredible.

Andy Roddick (80:54)

So look at it now and how smooth it is, start to finish, then go find something. When he was throwing grenades in like 07 or 08, like, it literally looked like he was going like this. And then elbow was low, super low. The racket was open. Talk about the two things, like most improved areas of a great player's game that maybe I've ever seen are both Novak serve and forehand fitness. Oh, yeah.

Sean (81:17)

Let's go.

Chris Eubanks (81:18)

Yeah.

Andy Roddick (81:18)

If I went back and I had a. I had a winning record against Novak, like, miracles happen. That's probably why. It's probably subconsciously why I retired at 30, because I didn't want to give up that little piece. But, like, the serve was not good. He would throw. The second serve was nothing. He used to hit like a little. He tried to hit like he barely hits a kick now. Yeah, like he runs it in and out, but it was like all disjointed. So his serve over time has gone from tour less than tour average to maybe one of the best 10 on Earth now. Yeah, like spot serving and clutch, though.

Chris Eubanks (81:54)

Every player, they said, they said anytime you feel like you get a sniff when you're playing no dirty, he puts it on a dime and it's consistent deep in the box. And they say it's consistent like that. And then maybe you get a missed first serve. So you're thinking, okay, second serve. 30, 40, break point. This is my chance. 110 cutter. And now you're like, man, I didn't think he was going that big. Like they say he's so clutch with his serve and it doesn't. A lot of players who I've spoken with, they didn't realize that until they got on court with it and they saw they could get a quick little sniff, you might have a chance. Ace, unreturnable, like crazy spots and then game.

Andy Roddick (82:28)

His serve was not great. His forehand was way better at the end. And his fitness, like, if I. The only reason I bring up my record is if I showed you my notes from the way that I used to play him, make it physical, it would translate like a suicide mission. Now it's like, let's chip to the forehand and let's make it as physical as possible. I hope it's hot because someone going from that where like heat was a liability to six hour matches in Australia and getting outlasted Rafa, I mean he is literally the definition of no stone unturned. Like improving, like winning slams and then improving while you're doing.

Chris Eubanks (83:04)

And at that time when he had the yips, let's not forget, he was still top four in the world.

Andy Roddick (83:07)

He won. He won the Aussie Open in 08.

Chris Eubanks (83:09)

Exactly. He was still like had a grand slam, was still competing for majors.

Andy Roddick (83:12)

Yeah, I don't know. I'm sure we missed out. Tell us in the comments, who'd we miss? I'm sure we missed some people because there are many, many great servers. But like, I don't know, there's something. I'm probably a homer here, but there's something just. It's a purest shot. Like when someone can just serve. It's pretty fun. Pretty fun to watch. Thank you for watching how deep the knee bends are. We'll see you next time on Serve. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built on. With the ServiceNow AI platform, your AI data and workflows all work together, connecting every corner of your business. To see how you can put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com AI agents, Where's your playlist taking you? Down the highway to the mountains or just into daydream mode while you're stuck in Traffic? With over 4,000 hotels worldwide, Best Western is there to help you.

John W. (JW) (84:20)

You make the most of your getaway, wherever that is.

Andy Roddick (84:23)

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