← Served with Andy Roddick
Served with Andy Roddick
Gabriela Sabatini on Rivalries, Shyness & Finding Herself Beyond Tennis | Love All w/ Kim Clijsters
01:23:49
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- [00:02]
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- [01:00]
Gabriela Sabatini
Here we go.
- [01:07]
Kim Clijsters
Hi everyone. Welcome to our tenth episode of Love All. It's kind of our tenth anniversary. Blair. Yay.
- [01:16]
Blair Henley
I feel so honored to have made it 10 episodes with you, Kim.
- [01:20]
Kim Clijsters
Oh, well, thank you. I don't know, is that a compliment or not?
- [01:23]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yes.
- [01:23]
Kim Clijsters
Okay.
- [01:24]
Blair Henley
I survived 10.
- [01:25]
Kim Clijsters
All right. All right. Good. Yeah. Excited about today. I feel like we got the okay from a very, very special guest to come on on today's episode. So, yeah, we have Gabriela Sabatini coming on, super excited to talk to her, pick her brain and on tennis, on court, off court stuff. So really looking forward to speaking to her.
- [01:48]
Blair Henley
In part wanted to talk to her because at Miami I feel like the Argentine players, the South Americans are so, so beloved. So it made sense to talk to Gabby during this tournament. But I happened to see her in Player Dining totally out of the blue. And we were talking about the fact that when you hear the term aura, she is in the definition, just the most unbelievable presence and kindness and warmth. Just the absolute best in person for those who haven't had a chance to meet her. So we're excited to pick her brain as well today.
- [02:27]
Kim Clijsters
My first time meeting her or seeing her for the first time, I think was at the French Open where I only went for a couple of days. I decided not to play Legends because I had things to do with the family here. But I went over for a couple of days towards the end of the tournament and I saw her because she was playing doubles, Legends, doubles with Gisela Dulco, who I loved when she was on tour and is super nice, I was like, oh, my God, there is Gisela with Sabatini. Like, I'm like, all right, that's my way to go. Say hi and. But yeah, there's still some, you know, people in the tennis world who I see that make me feel like, you know, I go back to being that 10 year old and who used to watch the tennis matches and, you know, hope to be like them one day and, and pretend to play like them. And so, yeah, really excited that we get a chance to, that I get this chance to speak to her.
- [03:16]
Blair Henley
It does make me feel a little better, Kim, when I hear that you feel that way, that. So if I'm feeling that way, I'm like, okay, Kim.
- [03:24]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, right?
- [03:24]
Blair Henley
That makes me feel better. All right, good, good stuff. Well, we're excited to get to that. We also have some Henley's headlines. But before we get to that, first of all, I just want to say I have not been arrested. This, this is a storage closet. We had to, we had to work with what we had here at the Miami Open. It's one of those things. When you're on a tournament site, it's hard to find a quiet spot because there's so much hustle and bustle. There's music happening in many of, of the areas. So, so listen, we, we're working with, with what we have.
- [03:55]
Kim Clijsters
Maybe next week we'll put you somewhere in the middle of the crowd where there is a lot of things happening so we get the real Miami vibe going.
- [04:01]
Blair Henley
I know, I know I do. Well, just, just so people know, I am in fact not incarcerated this, this week only. Only for the, our recording time. But, so we've got Henley's headlines and we've also got one follow up for you, Kim. I don't even know. I don't think we discussed this, but on last week's episode, you disclosed that when you were playing, you actually sought out the transcripts of your opponents, just in case they said anything about their mental states. Once in a while. Okay, all right. Once in a while. I then texted the Andy Kim Blair group chat. And I said, andy, burning question from our recording today. Did you ever read the transcripts of your opponents? And he immediately responds, never. Is that a thing?
- [04:48]
Kim Clijsters
And I kept my mouth shut and
- [04:51]
Blair Henley
Kim did not respond. Totally left in my head, I said, you know what? I'm gonna let Kim answer that. Kim never answered that. So Andy still doesn't know that that was a thing that Kim did. But, but Andy did Not hesitate. He was like, absolutely not.
- [05:06]
Kim Clijsters
Well, I definitely did. And it started with, I think one of the runners that worked for one of the broadcast. You know, who you get to know. Right. They help you, they take you to the press confere. There's like, hey, so and so spoke about you in the press conference here you can read about it. And, and then I started reading and it's like a fun read. It's, it's like you get the question. It's like, you know, I enjoyed it and yeah, so that's how that started. And once in a while I would be like, hey, semifinal, can you give me the, you know, my opponent's kind of press conference?
- [05:38]
Blair Henley
Yeah, like super sleuth Kim Kleisters. We love it. Okay, well here, here on site in Miami. Kim, we've got men's fourth round action today. On my court I have a couple of, I'm really looking forward to Feast and Vachero. Vachero, who's really backed up his incredible performance in Shanghai last year was interesting. He's close to the top 20 in the live rankings. And I was going to mention that. I said in the live rankings. And he said, I don't want to know. I don't want to know. So I thought that that was interesting. Does not want to know where he is in the live rankings. Arthur Feast, who missed the second half of last season and it's like he never left. Playing unbelievable tennis. Francis Diafo saved a couple match points against the defending champion, Menshik. We'll see if he can back it up. Maybe I know I'm not supposed to have favorites, but perhaps my favorite on the men's side, Terrence Atman, who is going to tell you exactly what he's thinking. And what he's thinking is probably not what you're going to be expecting. He blew a hole in his shoe in his match yesterday. Asked for tape during the match to tape the hole on his shoe. And after the match I said, terrence, do you not have another pair of shoes? He said, no, I sure don't. That's what the prize bunnies for. I have to go to the store and get another pair of shoes. So you know, Pokemon enthusiast has one of the biggest Pokemon collections in France. He's a part time magician. No shortage of of anecdotes there with Terrence Atman. So again, all men's matches on my court today, but the women's matches are incredible as well. Vicki and Boko is continuing to do, I mean, incredible things. Belinda Bencic played a masterclass against Amanda Anisimova. The list goes on and on. So we're into the quarterfinals for the women, but I want to start. Kim, unless you have any thoughts on just general results that you want to share, I was going to start with our first headline.
- [07:30]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah, for me, I think one of the things that we had discussed as one of the headlines, too, is Haley Baptiste doing really well. I think she's really sticking out for me and having. I think it's her first quarterfinal right in a big tournament. So it's seeing the players that she's beaten, beaten so far. Started with Tatiana Maria, who's a very tricky player, and then Svitolina, she beat Ostapenko. And just to see her, like, grow in confidence to learn about, you know, for the last couple of years, few years, I've seen her grow and become more confident and work on her game, work on the weaknesses, but still keep building on her strength. She's very strong, has a great serve, hits a heavy ball. But you can tell that she's been working on some of the, you know, some of her weaknesses, like the finesse, like she has the full coverage, like, she can do everything on court. And it's great to see. I think she's moving better than she was before. I think it's all kind of falling into place for her and so excited to see. She's one of the girls that I met when we played World Team Tennis a few years ago in West Virginia during COVID She was part of, or she was the reserve player. So when somebody was injured or couldn't play, she would. She would step in. And so she got to play on our team for a little bit and got to know her and her family. And so really nice to see her doing well.
- [08:52]
Blair Henley
And she remembers that, by the way. I think I've told you this, Kim. When I saw her in Houston last fall, she's like, I'll never forget World Team Tennis. I had Kim Clijsters and Venus Williams giving me life advice when it was all said and done. So she remembers that experience. She was on my court the other day. She forgot the chip in charge. Kim.
- [09:10]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah, it's incredible like, that she's able to do all that, and sometimes when you have all the tools and the flexibility to kind of play around a little bit with it all, it's not always as easy in big moments to know which decisions to make at the right time. And so I think it takes time to kind of learn about yourself and your opponents. But, yeah, she's doing it all. And confidence does a lot of things for a person.
- [09:37]
Blair Henley
Sure does. All right, that brings us to our first official headline, though. I loved that little Haley Baptiste aside there. And that is, of course, that IGA Spontek lost her opening match to her countrywoman Magdalenette in three sets. That snapped a streak of 73 consecutive opening match wins. And. And the story here is, is not necessarily maybe the loss because everyone has a bad loss here and there, but sort of the quotes afterwards. So to the Polish press, and this was via Ben Rothenberg's bounces, she said, honestly, what I'm feeling now, I haven't felt in about five years. It definitely won't be easy, and it won't happen quickly to recover, but I just do what I can. I want to work to get out of this, to feel that confidence again and not feel the chaos that I feel on court right now. And then in. In the English press, she added, tennis feels complicated in my head, but I know it's supposed to be simple. I guess I've always been an overthinker, and lately it's been really intense. Honestly, I played my best when I didn't think much, and now I feel like I make so many bad decisions or mistakes and that it's hard for me not to think. And it was easy to feel for her in that moment. She also used the word confusion. What were your takeaways from both watching the match and then hearing what she had to say afterward?
- [10:54]
Kim Clijsters
I feel like just from watching, I feel like for a little bit, you know, you have felt the rise of tension in her body, which usually is related to how the mind is. Right. Like, it's a combination. And it's. It's sad to hear that, you know, she's going through those struggles, but at the same time, it's also very recognizable in a way. Right. We all go through those moments that you mentally question some things that you mentally, you know, question yourself. Am I good enough? Can I still do this? Can I, you know, am I approaching it the right way? Do I need to take a break from it? Like, there's. You go through life on the road, but at the same time, you also have to, you know, you grow as a person, and sometimes you can get a little stuck in that kind of tennis circus. And like I always said, like, it's. It's for me, when I go to the tour now, and I love going back and seeing everybody, but I do realize how of an intense and at times, toxic environment it is that we are in and that we are in for a very long time. And so it's really good to stay in your bubble and to create somewhat of a normal life.
- [12:05]
Blair Henley
And you might think, okay, go work with a performance psychologist or a sports psychologist. She has that on her team. So I imagine having that at your disposal and then still feeling completely confused and helpless. That's gotta be a pretty terrible feeling. And she did say in breast Kim, you know, there's no magic Solution. And then four days later she splits with her coach of 18 months, Wim Baset. She won three tournaments with him, including Wimbledon. And if there's anyone who knows about sort of Whim's skill set and the way that he coaches, it's you. You were one of his, his first pupils. He's worked with some of the best in the game, you included. So I was wondering if you could maybe shed some light on, on that decision and your experience with Wim on the court.
- [12:54]
Kim Clijsters
You know, my first kind of feeling is a little bit, you know, I saw some of the interactions, you know, that were happening on court as well to whims, defense. When a player is mentally where she was at. I don't think there's a lot that you can say from the sideline. Right? It's a lot further than hey, do this on the tennis court or hey, try to focus on placing the ball there or throwing the ball toss or stepping in on the return. It's a lot further than that. It's a lot deeper to go back to. I think the first part of the question that I think want to pull in, into this is also I remember a few years ago Sabalenka was very open about sharing that people recommended her to go talk to a psychologist and that after a while she realized what am I doing? I'm the only person who can change this. This person doesn't know what it's like to be out there. I just have to change myself. And I think you come to a point that you have to look yourself in the mirror and make, make the changes and you know, face your weaknesses and, and, and that tension. A lot of times like Wim is a very, he's very data driven, which naturally he was like that I was a very intuitive player. Like I didn't want to hear any stats. Like I'm, I didn't care about the numbers. Like in my brain it does not work. But you know, for me like that was something that would be very overwhelming. I don't know what IGA is like, right. Like, but there's. Yeah, sometimes you want to have an open mind, but you could see that there was tension already for a few months and frustration and that natural kind of player coaching relationship wasn't really where it should be at. And I think those were a couple of red flags. And I also think on WIM side, it's also not easy to work in a team, I think, where you have a mindset coach who is very close. Right. Who's always there, because that's also, in a sense, I feel like the coach also has a little bit needs to also know or it's also a part of it. I feel like a good coach at times can also understand the mental side of it, how to approach that. I think it's not just the tennis part or the puzzle piece that you can just take out and replace by somebody else. I think, you know, it's a very, very intimate kind of detailed, you know, relationship and, and where you have to be able to express yourself openly. And, you know, it's not always easy. Right. But personalities have to match and, and it's, it's a lot of things. But Wim is somebody who is, you know, who is always on time. He, he's, he's very organized. Like I said, he was very data driven. I would say he's maybe not the best technical coach. Right. Like, he. Not like that. If you're looking for somebody to change your forehand or to do major things, that was probably not his strength. But I'm also talking about more than 10 years ago. Right. He's helped a lot of other players over time, but that was my experience with him, basically.
- [16:11]
Blair Henley
I feel like we have a theme to our Henley's headlines this week because we're also going to talk about Naomi Osaka, who lost in straight sets to Talia Gibson, who. That's a whole other story. She's playing some fantastic tennis, but disappointing for Naomi. And in press, she said, quote, for me, like I said last year, I'm not going to stay on tour if I'm losing in the first round. I'd rather just be a great mom and be there for my daughter. I feel like this also is a dilemma for me. And she went on to say, obviously, I'd love to play, but like I said, for me, my daughter's very important. I want to be a mom. I want to be the best mom I can. But sometimes I feel like I know what I have to do to become a really good player, and it's very difficult. Colt, I'm not going to play Charleston. I hope I can play Madrid, Rome, and then obviously, Roland Garros. So, again, relatable here, because whether you're a professional tennis player or a working mom in any other way, I. I feel like we've sort of all had this feeling of being torn, for lack of a better word. But when. When you hear those quotes, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?
- [17:17]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah, again, very relatable. I think it's, you know, it's a. It's a situation. Like, Naomi is somebody who was number one in the world before. I think it was 2019. You know, she was number one in the world. She was winning Slams. And when you come back after having a baby, she had. Her daughter was in 2023. I think she had her in the. In the summer of. In July. And, you know, you can do the same things, but the level. The tour, like, it still keeps growing and still keeps evolving. And I think for her, you know, when you've tasted and felt what it's like to be the last one standing at those big tournaments, and that's what you try to achieve, and that's why you train and that's why you put the hard work in. And she's, you know, doesn't bring her daughter to a lot of events. And. And, you know, for me, it was different. Like, I couldn't travel. Like, I didn't want to do it if I didn't have, you know, my family traveling with me because it wasn't worth the sacrifice of not being around them. Did I feel guilty at putting her through jet la or, you know, putting her on a plane for 28 hours from Belgium to Australia? Yes, I felt guilty, but it was an adventure that we were doing together, and we had, you know, a great time. And she. Yeah, it's. It's. Probably doesn't remember much about it, but it's. It's. I totally get the. The sacrifice of, you know, you want to be there with your daughter. There's so many, you know, fun things that you're missing and that you. But it's hard because I feel like there is no. There is no 50. 50. You are at times 100 the athlete, and you. You can't be the mom, like, or you have to let other people step in and. And take over, like, a little bit of that parenting role or the other way around. Like, it's. It's, you know, and it's. It's really hard to. Yeah. You know, my team members, you know, Wim, Sam, who was probably my closest Team member, my osteopath, he, you know, he was kind of my go to guy when I had to vent, when I was struggling, when I felt guilty. You know, usually when I laid on the massage table, like all that stuff would come out and yeah, it's important to, you know, really listen to those thoughts. And it's all, it makes it a lot more worthwhile if you know that all the time and the effort that you're putting in is showing by the results as well and because that makes it worthwhile leaving your family. And so again, I really hope for her that she gets the satisfaction out of her career that she is looking for because it's really hard to keep pushing through for a long time if that's what you're dealing with.
- [19:56]
Blair Henley
Yeah, important I think to remember that she is ranked 15 in the world. We're not talking about someone who's ranked 75.
- [20:03]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah. But the rankings, I think you get to a point where when you've been number one and the rankings really don't matter anymore, like that's not, you know, when you've tasted wins and that is your goal. Right. Like she's, I think in the best shape that she's ever been. She moves well on court, better than I think she's ever, she's ever moved. So she's definitely, you know, sacrificing and putting in and having an open mind to adjusting things and. But if it's not paying off with the results that she wants, it's, it's, it's very hard and I, I feel for her because, you know, that's a tough decision, you know, to, to always leave your family and you probably, you step on the plane, you're like, ah, like I don't want to, you know, why am I leaving? And is it worth it? And, but yeah, let's hope, you know, things can change really quickly in tennis as well and let's hope that she gets that satisfaction out of it.
- [20:54]
Blair Henley
Yeah, I always feel like it's when you have children and you're a working mom, you, I always visualize it as you're putting things on the two sides of the, the scale. And you know, what are, what are the benefits of leaving? What are the benefits of working? And you know, what are you potentially missing out on on the other side? And the problem is not everything has a clear cut weight for the scale. It's like, I think I maybe this always, I don't know. So you just never quite fully know if you're doing the right thing and that sort of uncertainty can really make you feel sort of perpetually torn, which is a feeling I know a lot of us have felt before. So all the best.
- [21:34]
Kim Clijsters
And I also think, Blair, like, I grew up, and I don't know how it was in your situation, but, like, I had a grandmother, my mother, who were, you know, always home, right? Like, they. They did everything. Like, they cooked meals every day. They, you know, did everything, cleaned the house, ironed our clothes. Like, my mom would drive us to, you know, the. The practices every day. Like, and it's. If that's what you're used to as a female kind of role, you know, you do like, that guilt feeling of, like, oh, like, I have to get other people to do it or the dad has to do more, or, like, it does stay into your head a little bit. But then at the same time, you try to tell them, like, but it's good for your daughter to see mom working and to see her following her passion and to enjoying what she's doing. So there's that kind of combination. And, yeah, it comes down to kind of playing enough tournaments, but also not too many so that you can still be home and kind of feel recharged every time and know that you're, you know, there's a lot of women that are doing it. You know, Taylor Townsend is doing it. Like, she's been open and sharing on her social media, too, how, how, you know, how sad she gets when she has to leave her son. And it's like, it's. It's part of life and. But, you know, it's not only tennis players who, who have to deal with that, right? Like, it's. It's a lot of women on the. On the work floor as well.
- [22:54]
Blair Henley
And to. To go along with our theme, I think the takeaway this week is just that it does not matter how good you are, how much success you've had, these thoughts can creep in. And we even saw it in Carlos Alcaraz's loss to Sevy Corda, where he was saying to his team in the middle of the match, I can't anymore. I want to go home. And I did actually see something really funny on Tennis Reddit where somebody made it into a meme, and they're like, me, when my friends want to go to the club, and so I can't anymore, I want to go home. But anyway, on a more serious note, it really is something that it does not matter what your resume looks like, how famous you are, how successful you are, the doubt can creep in.
- [23:40]
Kim Clijsters
Definitely and it's not just a doubt. It's also, I think, the physical wear and tear of everything, right? It's like, it's playing, you know, whenever he plays tournaments, he's usually, usually there until the later stages of the event. You know, it is the start of the year, but these guys play till pretty late in the season, and so it's important, like, he has a big part of his, you know, season coming up. With the clay court where, you know, especially coming from, you know, the Southern European countries, there's a, you know, they, they really focus on the, the clay court preparations because it's a different game style that they saw him knowing that he has a, you know, the French Open coming up and, and how much it takes for him to, you know, physically just adjust some things to, you know, be a better clay court player coming from all these hardcore tournaments is. Takes some time. So he's probably already like, listen, I need a little break. Like, let me, you know, let me mentally and physically recover so that I'm fully invested into what's coming up. And there's been a lot of, you know, I don't think we can always underestimate what it's like to be in the spotlight all the time as well. And, you know, there's been a lot going on with him and Ferrero in the media, and he gets, you know, for a while was getting asked a lot of questions, and so you can brush it off as much as you want, but I do think after a while, like, little, you know, little things kind of add up. And so it's very, very important to take time off. And I know that's not what the ATP and the WTA would want to hear, but it's what players definitely need to do. And Sabalenka is, I feel like, found a very good recipe for her schedule, you know.
- [25:23]
Blair Henley
Okay, I said we had a mental health theme, and for our last topic, I am going to take a hard, hard right turn. Kim, I thought you were going to
- [25:31]
Kim Clijsters
open up on something.
- [25:32]
Blair Henley
Oh, no, girl. We don't have enough time in this podcast to get into my mental health.
- [25:40]
Gabriela Sabatini
That's.
- [25:41]
Blair Henley
That's another show. No, I was going to tell you. Well, this isn't something that you don't know, but for those who maybe were not following this maybe little psycho drama that happened in the tennis world this week, I'm going to sum it up for you. And then, Kim, I would love to love, love to get your thoughts. Okay. Danielle Collins, former Miami Open champion, she is here in Miami working For Tennis Channel. So she's on the Tennis Channel desk, which opens up to the player warm up area. Well, a few days ago, Corenton Mute, the Frenchman, the colorful Frenchman who we just recently talked about, was walking behind the desk and was, you know, sort of flirting with her, allegedly from the field. And she said, if you're gonna flirt with me like that, you're gonna need to get a better serve. Well, he proceeds to win his match. That day, again, allegedly messages her and says, you know, did you watch my match? I had some big serves, et cetera, et cetera. And Danielle, in a segment that Tennis channel is calling story time with Danielle, discloses this interaction and said that mute was initially following her on Instagram, but then she had a dating profile that went viral in which she said she doesn't like short kinks. So Mute, more on the petite side. He's not a. He's not a small, small guy, but I guess she has very specific height standards. She then alleges that he unfollowed her and, you know, that he's going to really have to bring some things to the table in order to be considered by her in the future. Well, Mr. Booty was not a fan of this discussion being had on the Tennis channel desk. And he took to X, Kim, and he said, how can I unfollow you when I never followed you at Tennis Channel? How can you let someone say BS like this on tv? Mute claimed that Collins was the one who followed him and asked about mix doubles. And then he finished this by saying, you ready to say anything? So people talk about you. You should learn how to love yourself so you won't have to do stupid things for people's loves. Hedischannel, Good sports journalist. Scorched earth from Corinthel. Mute on X. And this made it all the way Kim to tmz. And it's been a newsweek at tmz if, you know, you know, and. And tennis made it to tmz. Now, before I get your take, I just want to say that I have always been pretty consistent in my thoughts on these sorts of things. And that is if tennis expands outside of the immediate tennis bubble, the immediate tennis consciousness, I almost always think that's a good thing, even if it's something controversial, even if it's something bizarre, even if it's something like, oh, I can't believe that happened. I'm like, I don't hate it that people are talking about tennis. There's sort of another side to this as well. But that's that's my initial take. I would love to hear yours.
- [28:51]
Kim Clijsters
I feel like I'm too old for all this stuff.
- [28:55]
Blair Henley
When we started podcasting, did you think we'd be talking?
- [28:59]
Kim Clijsters
I was like, wait, what is going on? I. I do, you know, I watch the tennis channel, and I follow the tennis as much as I can, and. And, you know, I think Danielle needs her own show. Like, I think she can. I think she can fill her own. Fill her own show and. Or whatever. Reality show, whatever it is. Yeah, I mean, I think she also talked about, like, her dog pooping in the locker. Yeah, she sure did Things like that.
- [29:26]
Gabriela Sabatini
She did.
- [29:27]
Kim Clijsters
So I don't know if that's. That's, you know, things that, I don't know, need to be happening in the comment. In the studio booth or in, you know, on. On. On air or. I don't know.
- [29:37]
Blair Henley
I honestly think maybe the solution.
- [29:40]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah, she's. She has personality and, you know, is. Is. Yeah, I think that would be great for her. I don't know.
- [29:49]
Blair Henley
I. Kim is a problem solver. She will find your transcripts, and she will suggest best career paths for you.
- [29:55]
Kim Clijsters
No, that's okay. I'll just let you be you.
- [29:58]
Blair Henley
No, no, that's better. It's a good solution, though. But I think when it comes to tennis coverage in general, I always find that. That in tennis, and I'm sure it's maybe like this to some extent in other sports, but in tennis, I feel like you really have to be a Swiss army knife. I. I love it when people try new things. I love creativity in tennis coverage. As you know, tennis has stayed the exact same for a lot of our lifetimes. And so I like the idea of thinking outside the box, and I generally applaud giving things a try. So that part I like. But I also think you have to remember that your audience is such an incredibly wide range of viewers, and so being able to have the fun, but also being able to maybe break things down in a more serious way and leave room for, you know, a Jimmy Arias, who is also on that desk, who is one of my favorite people to talk to about tennis. Like, man, he. He can break down a match like nobody I've ever interacted with in tennis. He's so good. So, again, there's, I think, a balance to be found. And Steve Weissman even said it on the desk. He's like, some people are gonna love this. Some people are gonna hate this.
- [31:15]
Kim Clijsters
So what are we going to find out? Like, who are the two is just basically lying, like, right.
- [31:20]
Blair Henley
I Mean, I feel like mute to his credit is someone who would show us the receipts, give. Give us the Instagram history. I want to see the message history.
- [31:31]
Kim Clijsters
Well, if you see it there, maybe go ask him. Like, I might.
- [31:35]
Blair Henley
I'm very sad that he lost, because I feel. I feel like we need to put an intrepid reporter, maybe super sleuth Kim. Maybe this is a job for super.
- [31:43]
Kim Clijsters
No, thank you. No, thank you
- [31:47]
Blair Henley
anyway, but. But I think it's interesting because it's opened this bigger conversation about tennis coverage and what it should look like and how it should be. And I think you have to try things. I think you also have to remember that you have people. You have sort of the other side of the coin. Some people are going to love the offbeat stuff, but you also people who want to see a match broken down and just remembering the audience in that sense. But listen, we love a good TMZ tennis headline with extremely low stakes. And this was that.
- [32:18]
Kim Clijsters
Definitely.
- [32:19]
Blair Henley
Okay, Kim's like, can we move on?
- [32:21]
Kim Clijsters
Yes. Thank you.
- [32:24]
Blair Henley
Okay, Kim. We had a journey today on Henley's headlines, and now we get to move into what I know that all of our listeners are waiting for. And that is our interview with Gabriella Sabatini. And a reminder that next week we're going to have all of the results from the Miami Open. We'll dive a little deeper into the tennis, but for now, I'm going to give our guest a proper welcome. Should I do it in my US Open voice since I'm sort of in.
- [32:49]
Kim Clijsters
Yes, please.
- [32:50]
Blair Henley
Okay. In an echo chamber here. Here we go. She collected 27 singles titles in her legendary career, including two at the WTA Finals and the US Open title in 1990. Also a grand Slam doubles champion at Wimbledon with Steffi Graf, she's been ranked as high as number three in the world in both singles and doubles. She also became an Olympic silver medalist at the 1988 Seoul Olympic Games. She's from Buenos Aires, Argentina. Please welcome Gabriella Sabatini.
- [33:29]
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- [34:33]
Blair Henley
So go on, make it melt, make
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- [34:46]
Kim Clijsters
Gabby, it's really, really nice to have you on our Lovel podcast. I, I have to say, you know, throughout my career, like when I was a little girl watching you on TV and then, you know, I remember a few years ago, like you showed up at the French Open and I didn't really know like, which legends were arriving and I saw you there and I was like, oh my God, like, there she is. You know, like, I don't think we ever really interacted or anything. So it was really nice to, yeah. To see you back on, on a tennis court and playing doubles with one of my favorite people, I think, Gisela Dulco. And so it's really nice to get to talk to you.
- [35:22]
Gabriela Sabatini
For me, for me too. I'm so, so excited, I mean, to be talking to you guys and Kim, I have all my admiration, obviously, I follow your career and I always admire you on and off the court. And it's true that we didn't have any interaction. I think what I remember is that I gave you. Well, not you, the trophy, Roland Garros. It was against Justine, it was the finals. But yeah, I think that was the first time we kind of met each other. And yeah, we kind of look at each other every time we kind of encounter personally and there was always something special. So, yeah, I'm very happy to be talking to you guys today.
- [36:07]
Kim Clijsters
I can't wait to talk to you because I've always kind of watched, looked at you as the tennis player and the on court stuff. Right. And then like just to go back a little bit about, yeah, think going through some of the things that you went through and off court, like there's so many, I feel like, similarities that I recognized as well. So I can't wait to, yeah. Talk a little bit about some of those things that I kind of, I think went through a little bit as well and shared and yeah.
- [36:36]
Blair Henley
Gabby, we wanted to talk to you during the Miami Open in part because you had so much success in Florida throughout your career. I know as a stadium host here, whenever a South American plays on these courts, it is like a party. You are a champion here. A couple of finals. So you had success here. But I think maybe to start off, people would love to maybe hear what your ideas up to where home base is for you and what you're up to these days.
- [37:04]
Gabriela Sabatini
I'm trying to enjoy life, you know, as just any. Any regular person. I live in. I'm based in. In Switzerland, near Zurich and. But I. I travel a lot. I spend some time also in Argentina, which is where I'm from. And then I also have a home in Miami. So I like to come to Miami a lot. I have been always in Kiwis Cane, that's where the tournament used to be. So I was very close.
- [37:37]
Blair Henley
It was very convenient for me.
- [37:39]
Gabriela Sabatini
I remember I will either ride my motorcycle or just with the bicycle. So it was really a pleasure.
- [37:50]
Blair Henley
Wait, wait, wait, wait. You would ride your motorcycle to the facility and go play tennis?
- [37:56]
Gabriela Sabatini
Absolutely. I did that in a few tournaments. I had a contract with Yamaha Rockets, so I will ask them to give me a motorcycle.
- [38:08]
Blair Henley
That's amazing.
- [38:10]
Kim Clijsters
You must be the only tennis player to ever have a motorcycle sponsor.
- [38:15]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, I don't know if that was a great idea, but I remember in Hamburg, in San Diego, California, I would have my motorcycle and. No, for me it was great. I also had one here in Miami. And I remember after Miami, we played Hilton Head and Amelia island and we will drive to go there. And at the time, my coach, Brazilian coach, Carlos Kiermayer, he also loved motorcycles. So he said, why don't we take it there? We can ask this friend to take it there in a car, obviously, or in a truck, and then we can have it there to ride it. So I would play my match and when I finish, I will grab my motorcycle and I will be. I mean, for me it was. I don't know. Well, you guys can probably talk about it too. But, you know, you needed that getaway moment, you know, to the release. Exactly. To take away the pressure. And that's how I started to learn a little bit of, you know, of how important these moments were when you were saying that.
- [39:24]
Blair Henley
I think it's so funny that Yamaha was giving you a motorcycle. And there are sponsors who have clauses where, you know, you can't go.
- [39:31]
Gabriela Sabatini
No, exactly.
- [39:33]
Blair Henley
Or there are certain things you can't do. And you're like, give me a motorcycle.
- [39:37]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:37]
Blair Henley
I love it.
- [39:38]
Gabriela Sabatini
Fun time.
- [39:39]
Kim Clijsters
That's exciting. I can only imagine the bridge, you know, in Key Biscayne like riding your motorcycle on that bridge, you know, going in and out of. Yeah, amazing.
- [39:48]
Gabriela Sabatini
Exactly. Yeah, amazing. Amazing.
- [39:51]
Kim Clijsters
To go back a little bit about, you know, to the start of when you, like, what made you play tennis. How did you fall in love with the sport? Like, from, from what age did that happen for you?
- [40:01]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, we, with my family, we used to have a weekend house and, and they sold the house for different reasons. And so my parents were like, o, what do we do now on the weekends? So they were fans of River Plate, our soccer team in Argentina. They have a huge club and they have all different sports and they had tennis. So we all became members of this club and they started to play tennis and of course I wanted to try it also. And I fell in love with tennis from the first moment. I was just crazy about playing tennis either against the wall, because obviously no one wanted to play with me so many hours. So I would be playing against the wall and then I would get home and play against my wall in the patio. I had. So, yeah, this was when I was 6 years old and obviously I had the conditions. I mean, I remember people telling my parents, your daughter should be going to a teacher. She has great conditions. And I remember I started practicing with this teacher and he already asked me if someone worked on my backend because it was so natural. So it was there that something was there. And at 8, I started to play tournaments in Buenos Aires. And I did very well from the beginning. I remember I reached the semifinals in the first tournament. Well, and that's how it all started. I just love being on the court.
- [41:46]
Blair Henley
Yeah, you became the youngest player to ever win the Orange Bowl. Then a year later winning the girls title at Roland Garros. Then you were the junior world number one. So, so quickly you became a big thing, not only in Argentina, but around the world. But I imagine in Argentina it was just huge. So can you tell us what the attention was like and did you feel pressure right away?
- [42:11]
Gabriela Sabatini
It was funn because I didn't want to tell anybody. I mean, I was still going to school and I didn't want to tell my friends that I was a tennis player and I had to go to play tournaments. My mother would pick me up at school, get me out of it a few minutes before finishing school so I could get to the tournament, but no one really knew much about it. And then I started to be on the newspapers. So my friends, the teacher, they were all asking me, you're famous.
- [42:44]
Kim Clijsters
No, no, no, no. I don't want to stand out no, yeah, exactly.
- [42:47]
Gabriela Sabatini
I was so shy. I had a lot of issues. I mean, to the extreme, you know, like to the point where I wouldn't ask the teacher to go to the bathroom. And then. Well, then what happened next was not very good. Yeah, exactly. My mom had to come, so I couldn't start kindergarten until a year later because I tried to go and looking at the window, waiting for my mom to come. So I had a lot of issues. And. And, yeah, I mean, I think a big moment was when. When I played the junior tournaments. This was in 2014. I was 14 years old. I mean, 2000. No, one. 1984. 84. I was 14 years old. And I play all these tournaments, junior tournaments. I remember I was traveling with Mercedes Pass, another tennis player from Argentina. We were the two of us by ourselves, and it was a huge, you know, long tour of tournaments. I ended up playing Roland Garros. I won most of the tournaments. I ended up winning Roland Garros. And I came back home with my father, I remember, and I'm looking at the airport. I see all these people. I mean, all this crowd. And I was like. Like, I asked my dad, what are these people doing here? You know, why there are so many people? And I realized I started to see my friend, my neighbor, my grandfather, my uncle, you know, and journalist. And that was, I would say, like a before and after, you know, everything changed from that moment. So, in a way, tennis helped me a lot in my personality because I had to kind of be more expressive, try to talk to people, say hello, say thank you. So it helped me a lot. Obviously.
- [44:56]
Kim Clijsters
It's funny because tennis, because it is such an individual sport, so I do feel like, as more of an introvert or a shy person, you can be yourself with yourself in the sport, right? That's why you thrive. And maybe, I think you pick up things maybe faster than other people, too. But I remember, for me, like, it was, yeah, also very important. Like, once I started playing juniors or under 14s internationally, I felt like I was with my people because they were also, you know, when I was in school in my hometown, I was the one that was able to leave school a little bit earlier to go. I didn't want to stand out, you know, as a young kid because I could play tennis. But it's very similar like that. Like, you try to hide a little bit that you're, you know, good at something and because you just want to be normal like the rest of the kids and.
- [45:45]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, exactly. And then they, you know, I remember they wanted all of us, to get together at school, you know, I mean, everything was already finished. I was not going to school anymore. But they, they organized their reunion and, and I hesitated to go because I didn't want to stand out, you know, I didn't want to be the different one. So I ended up not going for this reason.
- [46:09]
Kim Clijsters
Right.
- [46:09]
Gabriela Sabatini
You know, and. Yeah, it's exactly like that.
- [46:12]
Kim Clijsters
But then you go to the juniors and you're like, oh, my God, we have these kids from all around world who, you know, are there for the same reason as you. And, and then that kind of becomes your. Yeah, like your, your family, social life. Your family, your social life.
- [46:26]
Gabriela Sabatini
And until today, this is how I feel.
- [46:28]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah, me too.
- [46:29]
Gabriela Sabatini
It was hard in the beginning when I retired because I felt like I didn't belong in the tennis or I didn't know where to put myself, you know, because I was not part of it anymore. I don't know if this happened to you. So I didn't want to go to the tournaments. I mean, I think after, I don't know, five, six years that I went to the tournament, to a tournament for the first time, but I, I didn't know where to, to place myself, you know, when I was there. But today I realize that it is a big family, you know, I, I go to the tournament and, and I see familiar faces, you know, even when I played. And, and it's so nice to see them and to talk to them and, you know, from, from a different, you know, point of view.
- [47:18]
Kim Clijsters
Right. Because we have like, we're all very obviously different backgrounds, different cultures and also. But there's so many similarities. Right. Like that you and. I think I mentioned this when we spoke to Martina Hinges is like when you, when I play the Legends, like I'm around these women who know exactly what it's like, what we've been through, the ups, the downs, everything that we had to sacrifice, the stresses of, you know, whatever media, like all that stuff is. There's not a lot of people in my normal day to day life here in Belgium or in New Jersey, you understand? And that's why you can relate. Exactly. And even with the hall of Fame, you realize there's a family there, there's part of tennis.
- [47:58]
Gabriela Sabatini
Exactly. With your biggest rivalry. I mean, rival. I remember Steffi, you know, we were big rivals, even Monica or Aranta. And today we talk to each other, you know, and it's so nice because we talk about other things, but it's like, you know, coming back to a place that, yeah, it feels Good.
- [48:20]
Blair Henley
I love, Gabby, that you brought up the Steffi rivalry, because I'm just gonna read some stats for people who are listening, and then I know Kim wants to dive into this a little bit, but you guys played each other 40 times between 1985 and 1995. You also teamed together in Devils, which I had completely forgotten. You reached three Roland Garros finals. You won Wimbledon in 1988. And she also. It was so interesting, and I'd love to know the psychology behind this as well. The first 11 times you played, she got the win, and you had to find a way, and you eventually found a way to get a win against her. So, Kim, I'm gonna let you take it from there, but I wanted to just give a little bit of context, because the on court, we'll talk about the off court as well. It's just really special between you two.
- [49:06]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah, no, I just basically just want to pick your tennis brain a little bit, too. Right. It's like the nerd. The tennis nerd in me is like, how did. When you had the losses, how did you think back in the day? It wasn't as easy as, oh, let me look at some highlights, or it was different back in the day. So how would you approach moments like that?
- [49:26]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, I mean, there is a lot of analysis. You study the game a lot and find a way. But it's funny with Steffi. Yeah, you know, she. I think she always brought the best out of me. And, yeah, she beat me most of the time. But I think you come to a point where, yeah, you find the way, you know, you find a way to how to play. I felt I had the tools, but I didn't, you know, executed them. So I found a way. And I always enjoy playing against. Particularly against Steffi, because, I don't know, she just brought the best out of me, and it was always, you know, something special, you know, and then, yeah, playing doubles was. Was funny because actually her father came up to. To my coach at the moment and said, why don't they play together? I think he wanted to know. To get to know me better.
- [50:33]
Kim Clijsters
Perhaps creep into your head a little bit.
- [50:35]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, exactly. Because it was funny. We were. We didn't talk to each other so much. Even on the court. We were in silent most of the time. The changeover will come, and then we will both be not talking to each other. But, I mean, we did quite well. But, yeah, there is a lot of analysis. And how even know Monica or Aranta Conchita, you know, there's a lot of talking with. With your coach, you know, off the court and that. That makes a big difference. Yeah. In finding the way it's.
- [51:22]
Kim Clijsters
You mentioned those. Those women. Like, and I go back to, like, my. My childhood. Right. Like, being in Belgium and. And just, you know, the rivalries. Steffi, Monica, Yu, Arancha, Conchita, like that. Those were like. And I always say, like, people are like, how. Like, why did you look up to these women? Like, and I always like to not sound disrespectful, but to me, you were like my. My Disney figures. You know how, like, little girls look up to Elsa from Frozen or, you know, Mickey Mouse or. Like, that's what you. Like, you guys, that's what you were to me. Like, it's. It's like I couldn't wait to, like. I wanted to be like you. I put the headbands like you. I wanted to slice. Like, it's. Have the forehand inside out. Like, Steffi, like, there was a lot of things that you pick up as a little girl.
- [52:06]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah.
- [52:06]
Kim Clijsters
And it was really special. Like, you know, I don't know if, you know, like, my dad played. Played soccer and he, you know, played World Cups for Belgium. He's like, I have. This is. Not just for today, but I have this here. Like, he's kind of watching. He passed away almost 17 years ago, but he's there. And. But in 86, Belgium lost to Argentina and in. In Mexico in the World cup semifinal. And so there's a lot of, you know, like, I've always.
- [52:34]
Gabriela Sabatini
Connection.
- [52:35]
Kim Clijsters
Always that connection a little bit somehow. And it's. It's fun to. Yeah. To hear you guys. And I see so many pictures of Maradona with, you know, how he was a big tennis fan and Messi, and it's just. Yeah. Fun to. From a distance, you know, see that happen and have kind of my two worlds come together a little bit. So it's a lot of fun.
- [52:57]
Blair Henley
I think it's so interesting, Gabby just sort of playing off that and your relationship with Steffi as well. You said you guys didn't talk very much, but I watched a snippet of your hall of Fame induction, where before there was Serena introducing Maria, there was Steffi introducing Gabby, which you guys were both very emotional and you could see how close you are with. Was it just sort of telepathy almost, where you guys just knew so. So well what it was like to be in the shoes of the other. Where. Where did the friendship really come?
- [53:33]
Gabriela Sabatini
I mean, right after we. I think. Yeah. I retired first and then Steffi retired after we. We played a couple of exhibitions. Actually, it was for her foundation and already there, you know, Steffi, for me, I have a lot of admiration for her always. Obviously, we were rivals, but when you realize what she was, what she meant for tennis, what she did on and off the court. Also for me, she's one of the greatest, without a doubt, if not the greatest, but. Yeah, right after we retire, we kind of got close to each other. We were talking quite often. I mean, we had the chance to see each other in these exhibitions and then we met a couple other times. Now, these days, we said that we were gonna do a trip together. So, you know, that's something. Girls trip we planned. Yeah, exactly. She's a very close friend also of Ines Gorochategui, who used to be another Argentinian player. They're very close. So, yeah, we are organizing.
- [54:55]
Kim Clijsters
Oh, my God, that's great.
- [54:57]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, A girls trip. Yeah. But it's nice you talk a little
- [55:02]
Kim Clijsters
bit about the retirement part. So it took you five, six years basically to come back on the road and. And I can definitely agree it feels very weird going to a tennis tournament. As a fan of the sport, you're lost a little bit. You're trying to do. I do a little bit of commentary, do. I do some sponsor things. But you're still kind of. You lose your life a little bit. Right. And it is hard.
- [55:31]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah. I remember the first few times I would buy tickets, I didn't want to even ask for a pass.
- [55:40]
Blair Henley
Yeah.
- [55:40]
Gabriela Sabatini
I swear, girl, I didn't. I didn't want anybody to see me. Yeah.
- [55:48]
Kim Clijsters
You're like, oh, don't ask me anything.
- [55:50]
Blair Henley
That's amazing.
- [55:53]
Gabriela Sabatini
No, I remember. I mean, you know, the social media, for example, we didn't have social media. I mean, and how much that changed also, you know, it's so, so different these days. I mean, I'm grateful that we didn't have social media. It's a lot. If you know how to handle it, great. But you have to put it aside and use it when it's the right moment. But it's hard. It's difficult. Today I love social media because you can be in touch with other athletes. I don't know most of the athletes, and I can congratulate the athletes and get in touch and have a connection. And this is what I love about social media. Like today I follow the Argentinians a lot, so I congratulate them or I ask them, how do you feel? Or best of luck. And. And, you know, but yeah, that also has changed a lot in the tennis. Well, so many things have changed.
- [57:05]
Kim Clijsters
What about, like, coaching, Gabby? Like, have you had, like, a lot of players that have asked you to help them or.
- [57:12]
Gabriela Sabatini
I had a couple of opportunities, but no. No, I feel like I don't want to commit to something, you know. You know, tennis, you have to be 100% committed in. And the reason I stopped playing tennis is because I just didn't want to deal with. It's difficult to know why you burn out. I don't think it's the tennis, the playing itself, it's everything around it. And so it's. Yeah, it's. It's. It's difficult to commit these days. Like. Like, I didn't play tennis for, like, 10 years. I think I didn't touch a racket after I retired. And. And these days I feel like I don't. I don't want to commit. I mean, I. I had the. I tried to. To, you know, to go and look or be close to an Argentinian player a couple of times, but I feel like I cannot be there committed to someone. I love to give advice, and if I can talk to someone from time to time, I love to do that, but I cannot go farther than that.
- [58:36]
Kim Clijsters
That was one of the things, Gabby, that I felt or could relate to was you retiring at 26. I retired the first time at 24 because of the reason, like, I was able to win my first Slam after a few Grand Slam final losses. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, like, I did that. And then everything else around it, I just started really, like, seeing, like, how toxic I think that whole environment was and the tennis world, and. Yeah. So I just wanted to step away from it. Like, I just wasn't happy playing at all anymore. And so that was one of the things that I read and maybe didn't realize or didn't think about. About anymore. Right. When you retired and at such a young age. But I agree, like, even with the social media, like, I'm glad that I didn't have that, because that could have made me burn out even sooner. Like, you know, like, with all the. With the personalities, like, it's just a lot harder for the girls these days, too, on that side.
- [59:34]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, absolutely. No, yeah.
- [59:36]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah.
- [59:36]
Gabriela Sabatini
And it's a tough decision. I mean, I think I felt this burnout maybe a couple of years before, before I even retire, you know, and I had to.
- [59:47]
Kim Clijsters
Pushing through, like.
- [59:49]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah. And I had to work with the psychologist because I felt like I was into a Hold and, and not interested in tennis anymore. And this already happened to me when I was like, 17 years old. It happened to me for a very short period of time. And I thought at 26, I thought, well, or 24, I thought, well, this is. Maybe it's the same thing that is happening, and it will go away and I will be back again, you know, happy to play. But no, I, I, I, I. Well, that's why I started to work with the psychologist. And, you know, he really pushed me to the limits, and I realized that, yeah, this is it. You know, I'm, I'm sure that I don't want to be. Continue to play. I'm just not happy. You know, wake up in the morning and say, oh, I have to go and practice. I don't want to do that. I was already fighting with my coach for him at that moment. But, yeah, I was a boring person. I had no interest. I was just not happy. And I thought, well, tennis gave me so much that it's not fair for me to, to continue like this. And that's what I think. You have prioritize yourself and your happiness. And this is what I did. And it was tough because also in Argentina, there was a lot of expectation, and I knew that it was going to be a tough decision to give out. So that was probably the hardest moment for me to announce it because I knew what the reaction was going to be, and that was not expected. But I said, this is my happiness, and I have to follow that, and I'm sure of this decision.
- [61:48]
Kim Clijsters
Did you ever think about coming back, even three, four years that you played with the idea? Because that's kind of what happened with me afterwards. I had my daughter and my dad passed away, and I was like, oh, like, Wimbledon sent me an invitation to go play. It was against Steffi and Andre, and I got to, like, when they built the new roof on, on center court. And that kind of sparked a little trigger in me again, and, and I was like, wait, what's going. I was so confused because I was so certain that I was done with playing. And then, you know, I started having these feelings again and, and of, like, enjoyment and, and I didn't want to just practice, but I wanted to compete. And I felt, like, embarrassed that I was gonna come back because literally, like, two weeks, two months, two years earlier, you know, that was it.
- [62:32]
Gabriela Sabatini
Like, maybe having a kid, you know, also kind of give you a different energy, perhaps.
- [62:37]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah, maybe. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. It just. But it's, it's. You have those kind of feelings of like, ugh, you know, should I do this? Like, why am I putting myself in the spotlight again? Why do I, you know, do I want to do all this again? And it's. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, well, it's
- [62:55]
Gabriela Sabatini
good that you follow what you felt, you know, what you were feeling.
- [62:59]
Kim Clijsters
True, right?
- [62:59]
Gabriela Sabatini
Like, it's the most important thing overall.
- [63:02]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah, it felt like I was following my, my feeling and my intuition. It wasn't coming from somebody else or it wasn't people telling me to do this. It was really something that I felt. But yeah, it's, it's, it's amazing. Like even that now, like we were talking earlier, you did amazing. But like if you see now in Miami, like you see players like IG Asviatek, like, you know, talking about her mental health and we've seen Osaka in the past and like Alcaraz was complaining on the courts about wanting to be home. And it's just, you know, people underestimate and I think you, especially in your situation too, when from 13 years old, 14 years old, there's this, you know, you're always competing and doing, you know, and it's. I think it's normal, maybe even more so as women that you want to grow and you want to do other things and explore the world and, and, and yeah, I felt like, you know, I've done this for so long already. Like, you know, let's, let's try something else.
- [63:58]
Gabriela Sabatini
And it feels like I felt like I was 45 years old.
- [64:02]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah, I feel now like I live like a grandma.
- [64:04]
Gabriela Sabatini
Like
- [64:07]
Kim Clijsters
not quite.
- [64:09]
Gabriela Sabatini
No. Yeah, but that's how you feel inside, you know, like I've been here forever. You know, I'm old, I'm too old. And, and yeah, I was only 26. Thanks.
- [64:20]
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Kim Clijsters
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Gabriela Sabatini
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Commercial Narrator
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Gabriela Sabatini
Zootopia has a secret reptile population.
- [64:34]
Commercial Narrator
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- [64:51]
Kim Clijsters
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- [65:51]
Blair Henley
There was a clip I saw from the hall of Fame where you said if I were going to give advice to a young player, it would be don't stop doing what you love. And, and you told us that you loved the motorcycle riding, so that was a release for you. But, but since tennis, you really have, it seems outside looking in, you've done what you've loved and, and you're an adventurer at, at heart. Has that been really key for you in sort of finding that post tennis identity?
- [66:18]
Kim Clijsters
Absolutely.
- [66:19]
Gabriela Sabatini
I think you, you never have to lose who you are, you know, or, or you know, you always have to give time to that, that part because you're growing as a person also and you don't have to abandon just the, the opposite I think, you know, because one day you're not going to play tennis anymore and you always have to listen to yourself and follow what you like to do. And, and I think maybe in, in the last few years I, I realized how important it was my, my off time and I think this, in this way my coach, Carlos Kiermayer, he helped me a lot, lot in doing that, you know, like, I don't know. We will, I will be playing a tournament and you know, it was tournament in Hilton Head on the beach and I, you know, I always dream of, of riding a horse on the beach and, and I remember Carlos saying to me, let's do it, you know, let's do it. Why not? And we did it, you know, and, and, and I, I was accomplishing all the things I wanted to do, but simple things, you know, I, I don't know, just simple things, you know, I, I remember I was traveling with my, my guitar. I was playing guitar at one point. I was traveling with my rackets in my guitar.
- [67:35]
Blair Henley
You and John McEnroe.
- [67:37]
Gabriela Sabatini
Well, John, I Think he, until today he's, you know, he's out there singing and. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [67:46]
Kim Clijsters
You have to be the coolest tennis player. Like I know now you imagine rocking
- [67:51]
Blair Henley
up with the motorcycle and the guitar.
- [67:55]
Gabriela Sabatini
Crazy. I always love to sing. That was my. Until today. I, it's one of my favorite things to do. And, and I sang at different, in different places. I, I. There was a presentation of the, of my perfumes and they did a big event at the Ajax Stadium in, in Amsterdam. And there was this singer, this Dutch singer that I knew him, and he said, why don't we sing? He was going to sing. He said, why don't we sing a song? I'm like, are you sure? In the stadium. So, well, we practiced a little bit and I sang with him in the stadium and then on a TV show with a friend of mine. She's a very popular singer in Argentina. She said, said, let's, let's do a, you know, a song together. You know, also I did that and after I retired from tennis, I, I wanted to know what was happening with, with the singing, you know, I wanted to see because I never put the time. And so I, my friend, this singer, he recommended me, this, this teacher who was very good. And then I will go and learn, you know, do the exercises for singing. And I would go like three times or. Yeah, I don't know, three times a week. And, and I loved it. But I realized that I didn't want to. Want to commit again to something, you know, that we require again, discipline and again, you know, be committed to it. And I realized that I didn't want to go through that. But my teacher wanted me to sing. He said, you have the ability to become a singer. No, I can't.
- [69:43]
Kim Clijsters
So now you just stick, watch showers and like car.
- [69:46]
Gabriela Sabatini
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, sometimes if I'm with friends, you know, they asked me to sing and. But still I'm. I'm embarrassed to, to sing. You know, we, we need to prepare
- [69:56]
Blair Henley
from the girls tripi.
- [69:59]
Kim Clijsters
Yes. Or the next legends like event, like one second, like where you have to do like a karaoke or something.
- [70:06]
Gabriela Sabatini
We have to practice some, some way to prepare some songs.
- [70:09]
Blair Henley
So you're like, you're, you're fearless.
- [70:12]
Gabriela Sabatini
I'm shy, but I, you know, I have these desires. These are my hobbies. So I try to do that. Yeah.
- [70:22]
Kim Clijsters
All right. Song, karaoke song. What would you pick?
- [70:26]
Gabriela Sabatini
Oh, let's see. Well, I sing a lot in Spanish. There is one guy that I love is Luis Miguel, who is a very popular Singer. But then, I don't know. I like pop. You know, I used to like Air Supply. I don't know if you know who. Who they were. Maybe you're too young. Chicago. Phil Collins. Yeah.
- [70:53]
Blair Henley
Oh, my gosh. You and Andy Roddick. Phil Collins fans.
- [70:56]
Gabriela Sabatini
Oh, really? Yeah. Phil Collins all the way. Yeah.
- [70:59]
Kim Clijsters
I would. I would pick paradise by the Dashboard Light by. By Meatloaf.
- [71:04]
Gabriela Sabatini
Oh, okay, easy.
- [71:06]
Kim Clijsters
It's like you.
- [71:10]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah.
- [71:10]
Kim Clijsters
Blair, there you go. What's yours?
- [71:14]
Blair Henley
I. I mean, I. I'm gonna stick to my. My Texas roots. I'm going friends in low places, like Garth Brooks.
- [71:21]
Gabriela Sabatini
Sure.
- [71:21]
Blair Henley
But. But we have all. We have all the genres covered here, guys, should we ever decide to take it.
- [71:27]
Gabriela Sabatini
Exactly. We have it all. Oh, my gosh.
- [71:31]
Blair Henley
That's amazing, though.
- [71:32]
Kim Clijsters
So, Gabby, you mentioned your perfume. Perfume. I remember that very, very well. Right. And it's not just the Yamaha sponsorship, but also the perfume deal. I think you were like, one of the only players or the first one or to. To have that. And so what is. Like, how did that come about? How. What was that like? Because you talk about, like, being shy, but then you. There's so many things, right. That, you know, put you out there and have something to connect with, with people. Yeah.
- [72:02]
Gabriela Sabatini
What was that? This was in 1986, this perfume company from Germany. There is a funny story behind. Because this family was half German, half Colombian, and. And they wanted to. To name a perfume under Steffi's name. And the. And the daughter and son said, no, no, no, you have to ask Gabby, you know, because Latin and this and that. And so, yeah, so that's how it started. You know, they. They will present me the idea. They will send me all the scents and the packaging and everything to the tournament. So I will have this box of different, you know, smells. And I had to pick which one I like, you know, better. And it was fun because I was getting to know a new world that I had no idea. Idea. And, you know, when you are still 15, 16, you're not wearing much perfume, at least at that time today, maybe. Yeah. So. So I was really into it and. Yeah. And it was nice to. To have that time off, you know, with my perfumes. And. And it's fascinating how. How it works. And I. I got to. To. To. To get to know the, you know, the. The factory, you know, who produced the perfume. And so the first perfume came out in 1989. And until today, yeah, I still have my perfumes.
- [73:38]
Blair Henley
I tried to order it. It was not going to come in in time for Our interview. I wanted to have the Sabatini scent on. I will have to wait to the next time. But I was surprised you could still get it.
- [73:52]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sells in a lot of countries, mostly in, yeah. In Europe, in Latin America and, and actually now next month I have to go to Brazil to do a presentation and so yeah, today they're using more. The young girls, not me so much anymore.
- [74:18]
Kim Clijsters
You still are related to the company? Company, it's still your.
- [74:21]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah.
- [74:22]
Kim Clijsters
I mean they pay for your name
- [74:23]
Gabriela Sabatini
or how the perfume belongs to the company.
- [74:26]
Kim Clijsters
Right.
- [74:26]
Gabriela Sabatini
And I put, I, I give my name to the perfume and I, and I get to, I'm involved in the, in choosing the, this, the, the scent and the packaging and all of that and you know, like I have to approve, you know, everything that is, is done. Yeah.
- [74:41]
Kim Clijsters
So has the scent changed over time or has it always been.
- [74:45]
Gabriela Sabatini
Well, until today there were about like 15 different perfumes. Like every two years there will be a new perfume coming out with your name on it. With my name. They will have different names by my name. So. Yeah, so now we're working on the next perfume for next year. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean you're known for
- [75:10]
Blair Henley
the perfume but you are also known for the one handed. So many things, but the one handed backhand, I think people always go, go back to that. It, it was and is iconic. And I'm curious, if you were playing tennis today, if you learned how to play tennis today, do you think you'd still have the one hander and do you think there's room for the one hander in women's tennis at the top today?
- [75:33]
Gabriela Sabatini
Absolutely, I, I believe so. I mean it's, and I think it will be very efficient also because you can also do so many things. You know, I don't know. I think a game today of a variety of game today would do a lot of damage, I think, you know, because obviously the, the tennis has, you know, evolve, you know, improve is there is so much speed and power. And so that's why I think that today if you have a variety, you know, you change the speed you, you play higher, you play lower, I think you will do a lot of damage these days. Yes, sure.
- [76:15]
Kim Clijsters
I mean I only have, you know, the two, the two one handers that stood out in my career was Justine Henan, obviously. And who was, you know, so good. Right, with, with the, yeah. With the variety. And you know, a lot of times I, you know exactly what you're saying. Like it's that variety that can throw so many Players off. And Amelie Muresmo as well. Like, you know, they had that, that game that could, you know, just change, change up the rhythm and the variety.
- [76:41]
Gabriela Sabatini
Too many. It's true. There is a young girl that she won, Rolanda Ross last year actually. She's being coached by Francesca Schiabone. Lily Tiger, she's from Austria. Wow. I think she has an amazing game, right. Yeah. With one handed backend. Beautiful.
- [76:58]
Kim Clijsters
And great to see Francesca helping her and doing well.
- [77:02]
Gabriela Sabatini
I know. She's the best.
- [77:04]
Kim Clijsters
She's the best.
- [77:05]
Gabriela Sabatini
She has a different mind when you talk to her.
- [77:11]
Blair Henley
I mean, it's amazing, the fashion, the Sergio Tashini fashion. I mean, I feel like even today it's come back where you see, you know, tennis influencers are a big thing now, where people come to the tournaments dressed in tennis inspired clothing. And much of it looks like what you were wearing on the court in the prime of your career at the time, with the headband. I mean, did you know that you were creating a look that people still to this day think is all.
- [77:43]
Gabriela Sabatini
I mean, I love what is happening today. Yeah. How important fashion is, you know, it's part of everything. And I guess before you didn't pay so much attention to. Although I wanted to be, you know, looking good, I wanted to have my headband and everything matching and all of that. And of course I looked into that, but I didn't realize, realize, you know, how. How big that was or, or people would say, oh, I. I got my, my haircut the same as you, you know, and I was like, oh, my God. I don't know if that was that good. I will spend like one hour to. To do my, my front, you know,
- [78:23]
Blair Henley
to make this puffy.
- [78:26]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, exactly. Oh, my God. But that's how I was. I just didn't realize, you know, that the, the impact or. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
- [78:36]
Kim Clijsters
What about playing with the hair down? You know, you did that.
- [78:41]
Gabriela Sabatini
I did that in the beginning.
- [78:42]
Kim Clijsters
In the beginning. I remember, like.
- [78:44]
Gabriela Sabatini
No, it was funny. I went through a lot of things. First I went through. I had two ponytails when I was very, very, you know, young. In the beginning. This was in the beginning. And I didn't know how to make the ponytails. So. So when I had my mom, it was great. But then I will be traveling and I will be like. And now what?
- [79:05]
Kim Clijsters
Hey, coach, do my hair.
- [79:07]
Gabriela Sabatini
I will go to sleep with my ponytails.
- [79:11]
Blair Henley
No way.
- [79:13]
Kim Clijsters
Yes.
- [79:14]
Blair Henley
So your head must have hurt.
- [79:17]
Gabriela Sabatini
Well, I just wanted to have my two ponytails.
- [79:21]
Kim Clijsters
So if you made the finals, like, they were like, all over the place.
- [79:24]
Gabriela Sabatini
Exactly. Exactly. Horrible.
- [79:26]
Blair Henley
Amazing.
- [79:28]
Kim Clijsters
Oh, well. The things we go through, right, from. From a kid and playing on tour, like, I think now, like, my daughter just turned 18. And, like, I think back on, like, I talked to, like, with my mom, I'm, like, when. You know, when I was 13, she would send me off to, like, the Ukraine, you know, like. Like, without a parent, you know, like, things are so different now. Right. Like, we just learned to just. Yeah. Figure it out. Like, here is a little bit of cash, and you'll figure it out. Like, there was no credit cards, no phones. Like, we were like, this is when you leave, and this is when we'll pick you up at the airport.
- [79:59]
Gabriela Sabatini
It's true. We are lucky that we're here today.
- [80:02]
Kim Clijsters
Yes, definitely.
- [80:03]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yes, absolutely.
- [80:05]
Blair Henley
When I saw you on site in Miami, I imagine that players see you and want to come up and say hello and have interactions. And when you were saying, you know, I can't believe somebody would want to cut their hair like me. I imagine there are many young players still who are so excited to meet you. What. What are these. Those interactions, like? And does it surprise you, you still. When people come up and say, oh, my goodness, you were the first poster I had in my room.
- [80:32]
Gabriela Sabatini
Yeah, absolutely. It surprises me a lot, and I get very emotional about this. This is one of the things that I appreciate today and I enjoy very much, especially in Argentina, you know, when people come up to me and say, you know, thank you for everything you have done. I stay up all night to watch your game or someone said that. Yeah, I had your poster.
- [80:57]
Kim Clijsters
Your.
- [80:58]
Gabriela Sabatini
It's just amazing. You know, it's just. It goes beyond your. Your capacity of understanding, you know, something like this, you know, But I get very emotional with these things because she's like, wow, you know, how much I, you know, I. I was involved in their. Their lives, you know, it's. It's a lot.
- [81:19]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah, I can. I can literally cry because. Yeah, this is. It's very special to me to be talking to you. So I just want to say that because of my dad, too, like, just growing up watching you, and it's the human side that, you know, you do see some players lose a little bit. Right. And it's really nice to hear that you never lost that.
- [81:41]
Gabriela Sabatini
So thank you, Kim. Thank you.
- [81:43]
Blair Henley
Oh, my God.
- [81:44]
Gabriela Sabatini
So special to talk to you guys.
- [81:47]
Kim Clijsters
Yeah.
- [81:49]
Gabriela Sabatini
Thank you. Hopefully. Well, next time, we'll do it in person.
- [81:52]
Kim Clijsters
Yes, please.
- [81:53]
Blair Henley
I would love that with the karaoke mic. All right.
- [81:59]
Kim Clijsters
And some of your plugs, if I'm singing.
- [82:04]
Gabriela Sabatini
Oh, that's good.
- [82:05]
Kim Clijsters
All right.
- [82:06]
Gabriela Sabatini
Thank you so much. Such a pleasure. You too. All the best, your families.
- [82:10]
Kim Clijsters
Thank you.
- [82:14]
Blair Henley
Can't. That was so amazing and so special, Effy.
- [82:20]
Kim Clijsters
Very, very special. I feel like one of the things that I don't have on my desk is a box of tissues because I need them. It just. Yeah, you can just feel like her energy is just so good. Like she's just a very good person and caring and. Yeah. Love that we were able to do this on. Love all. And I hope, you know, I've been a little bit kind of like hesitant to go up to her because I, you know, know, just look up to her and then so now I think it's just this was an icebreaker, I feel like. And I get to go and. Yeah. Just be around her in person for a little bit.
- [82:54]
Blair Henley
Yeah. If I don't get an invite to the karaoke bar, I'm going to be very disappointed, Kim.
- [82:59]
Kim Clijsters
Definitely.
- [82:59]
Blair Henley
All right. Well, another fantastic episode. Great to hang out with you, Kim. As I said, thank you for letting me be a part of that interview because that was incredibly special for me as well. But if you.
- [83:11]
Kim Clijsters
We're in this together.
- [83:12]
Blair Henley
That's right. 10 year anniversary. 10 episode anniversary. But we also wanted to say on. On a sad note, we wanted to send our condolences to Lindsay Davenport, whose mother Ann passed away last week. She was a giant in the volleyball community and was such an incredible supporter to Lindsay and their entire family. So sending our love to. To Lindsay and her kids and. And beyond. And with that, we would love to invite you to, like and subscribe to Love all podcast on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday and of course on our social media. Ask questions, interact with us. We always love it and we will see you next week.
- [84:06]
Gabriela Sabatini
This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing company. No matter how you do game day on the couch, in the crowd or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in with a full lineup of non alcoholic beer styles. You can enjoy bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip off with a variety of non alcoholic craft style. Available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com near Beer Fit for all times.
- [84:36]
Commercial Narrator
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