John McEnroe Joins Served LIVE from the Laver Cup DAY 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: Served with Andy Roddick – "John McEnroe Joins Served LIVE from the Laver Cup DAY 2"

Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Andy Roddick
Guests: Jon Wertheim, Producer Mike, Special Guest: John McEnroe
Setting: Live at the 2025 Laver Cup, Day 2

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of “Served” with Andy Roddick is recorded live during Day 2 of the 2025 Laver Cup and is all about the atmosphere, stories, and inside strategy surrounding the event—culminating in a feature interview with tennis legend and former Team World captain, John McEnroe. The conversation blends insightful tennis breakdowns, behind-the-scenes stories, and reflections on the Laver Cup’s special place in the sport.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Laver Cup Vibes & Gala Stories (Starts ~01:00)

• The hosts recount their experiences at the Laver Cup gala, describing it as akin to “tennis prom”, with tuxedos, bow ties, and awkward fashion moments.
• Andy jokes about failing to button his shirt collar due to his “bulky neck,” sparking lighthearted fashion banter.
• Jon Wertheim notes the importance of events like this in educating younger players about social rituals off court and the tennis community’s camaraderie.

2. Today’s Matches Preview & Player Dynamics (Starts ~04:23)

• Opelka vs. Ruud: Noted that Ruud leads 4-0 in their head-to-head and discussion of how indoor, "low and slow" courts alter matchups.
• Mickelson & Mensik, Fonseca & Cobolli: The team highlights the emerging stars, their recent form, and what to watch for.
• Unique energy: The significance of team dynamics, learning in real-time from legends like Agassi, and the special challenge of playing “in front of your peers.”
• Carlos Alcaraz’s debut in doubles is spotlighted as a showcase moment for the format.

3. Laver Cup Format & Innovation (Starts ~22:43)

• The scoring system’s uniqueness—progressively more points for matches on subsequent days—and how it provides drama and strategies for captains.
• Andy and Jon praise the adaptability and innovations, from the court surface to the emphasis on doubles and new TV-friendly rules.
• “We always say tennis … needs to showcase doubles more, it needs to innovate, it needs to think outside the box. … The format here … a lot of them have honestly been sort of open-source material that other events are free to use if they want.” – Jon Wertheim (25:47)

4. Team Captain Mindset – John McEnroe Joins Live (From ~29:10)

• McEnroe candidly discusses the stress and fun balance in captaining, the importance of decision-making, and the fine margin for making a difference.
• Doubles matters more than the public might think—matches and titles often come down to key doubles victories.
• Reveals that, unlike some teams, his team meetings always included input from the players on lineup decisions.

“As a captain, [you try to make] that little tiny bit of difference, maybe 5%. That can be the difference between winning and losing.”
— John McEnroe (30:24)

5. Labour Cup "What Ifs" & Tennis History Banter (Starts ~33:41)

• Playful imagining of what a “dream” McEnroe-era Laver Cup team would look like—featuring partners and rivals like Jimmy Connors, Peter Fleming, and Björn Borg.
• Amusing tales of team (non-)chemistry: McEnroe describes playing an entire Davis Cup season with Connors without speaking (“He definitely started it.” – 36:43) and being asked by Arthur Ashe to skip team dinners to keep peace.

“I think we made … each other better players. But when it coincided with that year, what happened to be my best year on the tour that I ever had.”
— John McEnroe on Connors rivalry (37:28)

6. Legends & Legacies: Praise for Rod Laver and the Event’s Purpose (Starts ~40:47)

• McEnroe calls Laver “the Babe Ruth of tennis,” relating childhood stories of idolizing his physique and tenacity.
• Details Laver’s unique career: winning the Grand Slam twice, prohibited from majors for turning pro, grinding out a living on a shoestring around the world—contextualizing why the Cup bears his name.
• Emphasizes the importance of current players and fans appreciating what earlier generations sacrificed:

“I don’t think the players of today realize … what the sacrifices that players made to allow them to have this opportunity.”
— John McEnroe (45:09)

7. Laver Cup Genesis & Roger Federer’s Role (Starts ~46:21)

• McEnroe recalls being approached alongside Borg by Federer to head the event as captains, highlighting Federer’s vision and infectious positivity.
• Federer’s enthusiasm for life on the tour, engagement with fans, and desire to “pay tribute to Rod Laver” is underscored.

8. The Cup’s Competitive Edge & Format Impact (Starts ~51:18)

• Early doubts about whether the event would be treated seriously—but from day one, pressure and tension equaled any traditional tournament.
• First Laver Cup in Prague highlighted as “a perfect example” of intensity—Nick Kyrgios nearly took it to a deciding doubles rubber.

“The moment this started … once you saw them start competing … you realized that this was something that was going to be taken seriously …”
— John McEnroe (51:28)

9. Stories on Rivalry, Resilience & Friendship (Starts ~58:56)

• McEnroe reflects emotionally on his years sharing center stage—and now captain duties—with Björn Borg, and the privilege of rekindling their friendship through the Laver Cup.
• Both treasure the continuity and being able to “see each other and hang out” after so many years as rivals and icons.

“God, I love the guy. That’s the bottom line. If he’s happy, I’m happy. But, you know, it’s a journey …”
— John McEnroe on Björn Borg (62:30)

10. On Tennis Memoirs: Learning Empathy and Perspective (Starts ~63:27)

• Discussion of reading Andre Agassi’s memoir, which gave Andy’s wife “a better understanding” of the tennis world.
• McEnroe praises the contrasts between his, Borg’s, and Agassi’s biographies, each providing unique windows into the sport’s culture and toll.

11. Final Thoughts and Day Preview (Ends ~65:19)

• Andy and the crew thank McEnroe for his time and tease the upcoming matches. There’s a palpable sense of camaraderie and reverence for the legacy, unpredictability, and spectacle of the Laver Cup.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You’re starting a trend—the V-neck with tux.” – Jon Wertheim to Andy (03:13)
• “Playing in front of your peers—that’s just not something you do very often. There’s an expectation set … That presents its own type of pressure.”
  – Andy Roddick (19:46)
• “Andre Agassi will not spare any details. I cannot wait to hear those conversations.” – Andy Roddick (11:55)
• “Love it. Let’s do that on game shows. Let’s do that on tennis as well.” – Jon Wertheim, on points escalation (26:29)
• “The Laver Cup for the two of us was … a chance to rekindle some old memories, but mainly just to see each other and hang out.”
  – John McEnroe on sharing the event with Borg (59:50)
• “Thank God for Carlos Alcaraz in our sport.” – John McEnroe (58:15)

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Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• Gala/“Tennis Prom” Stories: 01:51–04:15
• Match Previews & Player Breakdown: 04:23–16:32
• Laver Cup Format/Innovation: 22:43–26:33
• McEnroe Joins – Captain’s Insights: 29:10–34:43
• Doubles & Team Selection Stories: 31:03–33:22
• Legendary Rivalries & Connors Tales: 34:07–40:13
• On Rod Laver’s Legacy: 40:47–45:50
• Laver Cup Origin / Federer’s Vision: 46:21–49:31
• Intensity of First Laver Cup: 51:06–52:21
• McEnroe/Borg Friendship: 58:56–60:21
• Agassi/Borg Book Reflections: 63:27–64:40

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Tone & Language

Conversational, witty, nostalgic, and often self-deprecating. The hosts and McEnroe blend humor with honesty, moving fluidly between banter and deep tennis reflections. The atmosphere is friendly, inclusive, and rich in tennis lore.

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Summary

This live Laver Cup episode of “Served” captures the unique blend of cutting-edge tennis, generational storytelling, and community spirit that defines the event. Andy and his team dissect matchups, strategies, and the evolving culture of tennis, before welcoming John McEnroe, whose candor and stories provide an unrivaled window into the pressures and joys of elite competition. More than just a preview show, it’s a reminder of the sport’s history, its need to honor legends, and the enduring connections that only tennis provides.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

How we doing?

[C]

Hey, Harry.

[A]

Are we all properly caffeinated? Not you, you're a kid. But like the rest of you adults, properly, properly caffeinated. We are served. This is served live, presented by our friends at service. Now to my far left, producer Mike is in the house.

[D]

Morning, everybody.

[A]

To my immediate left, John Wertheim. Part of our dumb little podcast show. And also really important shows like 60 Minutes and stuff like that. This is great. Labor Cup Week. Amazing. We have John McEnroe. Anyone heard of him? He's going to be joining us in a little while. Yeah, that'll be pretty. Maybe we'll get him to come out of his. His shell a little bit and open up. Maybe not be so shy.

[C]

Exactly. It's a little shy.

[A]

Yeah. We went to this fancy Laver cup gala last night. I felt like I had to wear a tux. I felt like I was going to prom.

[D]

Yeah, everybody was black tie. Except for you.

[A]

Everyone was black. Oh, you're gonna make me say it. Yeah, I did. So he's referencing something that I went through last night. It's a sad story. Do you guys want to hear it? Anyways, all right. I was. It was black tie, so I had a little. Little tux, little bow tie. You know, Roger loves a tux. Looks good. What?

[D]

He looks good.

[A]

He looks good in tux. Yeah, Great hair. But anyways, I had that moment. Some of you have been there, some of you will be there. But the neck had grown and I couldn't button the top thing. And I fought it. I almost. I almost injured a tricep trying to get this thing. But buttoned anyway. So show up at a tuxedo black tie event. No tie. Couldn't put it on.

[D]

You missed the memo.

[C]

V neck. V neck with the tux.

[A]

It wasn't great. Roger's too nice. I was. And then they're like, okay. I'm like, maybe no one will notice. Maybe I can just get out of there. You know, walk in. It's like, no, you're sitting at Roger's table. I'm like, that's great. That's fantastic. That's. That's great. Thank you for inviting me to your wonderful night. And my neck is too bulky to. Bulky is a nice word.

[C]

You pulled it off. You're starting a trend of the V neck with tux. You know what struck me about last night? I don't know if you had this feeling, you know, this is. I don't know if you guys saw any of the pictures on social media, but, yeah, it was like tennis prom. It was like everybody sort of helping your buddy with his bow tie. And I'm thinking it was really must be socializing for a lot of these players. A lot of us go through this kind of thing. You know, it's a college formal or it's your office party when you have a conventional job. I feel like this was part of tennis player education, that some of the younger players in particular, you know, here's how you wear these awkward shoes that squeak when you walk. And here's where you put your cummerbund. And I was watching these. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[D]

I don't think any cumberbund on.

[A]

Just so we're clear. Yeah, I didn't have a tie. Is because of a neck situation. You chose to wear a cummerbund. You went. You were at prom.

[C]

Men's warehouse. You words.

[D]

I like the way you look.

[C]

Warehouse. I like the way I look.

[A]

It was. It was a. It was a vibe, though. I was stressed about my neck. And then I realized if I stand next to John, people will only look at his cummerbund.

[C]

Say, go big or go home.

[A]

Anyways, we. We got through it. We should address. There's matches going on today, right?

[D]

There's.

[A]

There's. There's some 10. We start off the big guy. Opela starts off against Casper Rude, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Ruud's up 4.0in their head to head.

[D]

Correct.

[A]

Nailed it. Mickelson and Mensik. Fonseca Caboli.

[C]

Oh, man, you gotta see these shirts our Brazilian friends here are wearing. Can you see that?

[A]

Wait, I didn't know that people liked Xiao in Brazil.

[D]

Yeah, exactly. Is that true?

[C]

Has he punched through with The Brazilian sporting public yet?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Who he is.

[A]

Are we full of belief? Are we full of hope? Or are we full of all of it? Hope, belief or.

[C]

You see those shirts? Those shirts are fantastic. We got pictures.

[A]

What do they say?

[C]

Post them.

[A]

What do your. What do your T shirts say? That sounded great. I'm not even going to try to repeat that sounded way better. I would do. I would not do that. Oh, by the way, just. Did you hear how the video pronounced Tolga Runo last night at the.

[D]

At the way I pronounce it?

[A]

No.

[D]

Yes, he did.

[A]

God, you're so wrong on this, Mike.

[D]

I'm from the Midwest. We say things funny.

[A]

You say things very weird. Anyways, we've gotten off, off, off track. Go figure. Alex Mickelson and Taylor Fritz against Men Seek and. And Carlitos is. Is making his debut tonight. Which matches are you guys looking forward to the most?

[D]

I mean, probably for me. Fonseca Kabali.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, that'll be the first one to lead off the night sessions. I think it's gonna be big energy.

[A]

Yeah, those.

[C]

Those two guys played before this year it was eight, six in the third. Set breaker. So not. Not much to go on head to head. But these are two players who both play sort of broke tenet. You're seeing a lot. Yeah. Holla.

[A]

Bam.

[D]

Yeah. What up?

[A]

Here we go.

[C]

Nerd. A lot of shot making. How do we feel about Carlos playing doubles?

[A]

I'm sorry, like what? That's. I've just played triples.

[C]

He could play quadruple.

[A]

I've discovered this is actually. We're pretty. We're being lazy, right? So, like, we have a conversation, people are listening, and whenever we want feedback. How do we like Carlos? His hair?

[D]

Yeah, that's a cool. Yeah, it does look cool.

[A]

It's pretty. It does look cool. But I mean, honestly, does it look cool because he's won six majors?

[D]

Yeah, no, it looks cool. Anyways, it was.

[C]

That's a great question. If he was like, four weeks ago, how would we be feeling about the hair?

[A]

It's like my high school experience. I became popular once I turned pro. Like, I mean, it's, you know, that matters a little bit. How about yesterday when Janik Noah was here and he said, you know, you were always playing. His point was, we're always playing for someone, whether it's your country, whether it's your parents, whether it's for. And I thought he said, because we go off air and was like, how was the show? And I was like, oh, you thought He. He said, you know, and then you play. You know, you. You make it a little bit, and then you play for checks. Chick. Chick. I thought he said chicks. And so I was like.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And then we came off, and producer Michael's like, he said checks, you idiot.

[D]

Yeah. He went on to talk about buying a house for his mom.

[A]

Yeah, I know. I thought, he's playing for checks, and I'm dying laughing because I just thought it was funny and very honest. And then he's like, I had to buy my mother a house and my father a house. I'm like, ugh, Yeah, I messed that up a little bit. But Yannick knows, like, one of the coolest people ever, right?

[C]

I mean, I thought he was playing for checks like Lendle and. And men.

[A]

I'll play for them too.

[C]

I think he got checks. Checks and check. I think he did well in all those departments. But no, Yannick Noah is what we should all aspire to in terms of coolness.

[A]

I felt like I was asking him questions. And while I was listening, I felt like I was just leaning into a therapy session. Like, it was. I talked to my wife last night, and I go, we have the same conversation that we have. I was like, it's not what you're saying. It's your tone. And so I thought. Janek. I was like, yeah, that's what my wife says. She says my tone. I thought he was gonna be like, ah, ha ha. And he goes, it is, Andy.

[C]

Not the.

[D]

What?

[C]

It's the one.

[D]

It was cool, though. On the black carpet. The. The team Europe was. Had a vibe, man. They have, like, a song that apparently they're playing, and they're all, like, vibing around.

[A]

They're relaxed.

[D]

They're super relaxed.

[A]

They're going about it differently. Yeah, it was. It was cool. But listen, let's break down these matches today. Leading off, opela rude root up 40. This one's tough. I don't know that this surface. So Andre decided described it as low and slow. So a lot of times when you put courts down, in arenas that aren't native to tennis courts, you put them on some sort of surface. It deadens the bounce a little bit, right? It's not like concrete, where it bounces and then gets up a little bit. The. The bounce is muted normally indoors, especially when you're in an arena where you're turning it into a tennis arena. It's not like it's Arthur Ash, where it lives as a tennis court, and you can build the foundation of concrete and rubber and all that stuff up into it. So you're kind of putting in a makeshift court. Normally the bounce is muted. I don't know where this is going to land because it hurts. Opelco serve, right. He wants it to kick up and out of the zone and it hurts Casper from the baseline. Right. He wants his RPMs to kind of get up and away. But Opelka may be the only person on either team where the ball's not going to get up no matter how much spin Casper puts on it. But yet the. The head to head tells a different story. Jw.

[C]

Yeah. What? Let me ask you a question about head to head because it's four nothing. First thing we do whenever we assess a matchup. First thing you do. How have they played before? How close has it been? How many times they played, where or when?

[A]

Well, there you go, where it's played.

[C]

So what do you. 4o sounds like lopsided, but I'm not sure we have a lot of predictive information here.

[A]

You can read into 4.0a little bit like. But like, let's use Casper as an example. If someone has a two in one record against Casper and two of the wins were on grass and they're playing on clay, I put almost nothing in that. Right. It doesn't. It doesn't matter. So it is more than just the head to head. But obviously Riley Opelka has to get in. He wants to shorten rallies. He. He does not want to move right. If it's a. If it's a battle of legs and they're going sideline to sideline. Casper is. Is doing what he wants and getting what he wants in those rallies. Opela is going to go big on second serves. He's going to try to attack Casper serve a little bit. I'm a broken record on this. Casper's first serve percentage is going to dictate whether or not Riley can get into return games or not. You know, Riley and the other thing to look for is the strength of Riley's game isn't ever going to be described as his returns. Right. It wasn't the strength of my game either. And yet the person that's in his ear.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

One of the best three or four returners of all time. So I'm curious to see how much they actually go after that. What the return position is. Is Riley doing something different because Coach Agassiz sees something that maybe he wouldn't see on a regular basis? Does everyone here, when they're watching the labor cup telecast is the best part for you, the switchovers, right, where they play it back and you lean in and it's like Andre's going, let me talk to you about returns. And I go like this.

[C]

Talk to you.

[A]

I'd like to see.

[C]

I think it'll be really interesting this time because if you were you guys here yesterday when Andre was here, this. This is not someone that's just trafficking in cliches and moving on. I think Andre's advice is going to be, this is not just going to be, keep fighting. You're doing great. Keep your focus, Go get them. You got this. This is going to be substantive tennis talk, which should be great to see.

[A]

Andre rarely says or does anything without focus. He is not the easiest to get a yes out of, right? This captaincy. He will think about things, right? He will. He would have been offered this job. My guess is he would have thought about this job. Given it time gone back and forth. You could rightfully accuse him and he would tell you of maybe overthinking sometimes. But once he's in, you are getting the full, full Andre. I don't know if any of you watched the interview we did with him on our show. If you haven't, please go back and watch. Not just because it's our show, just because you will learn something, right? You will learn what awareness looks like, what someone acknowledging flaws, what someone knowing what they do well, all of that stuff. But the difference is, is that was on a random day before he had to fly to Europe, and so he settled in for two hours because he had committed to us, and that was his priority that day. Yesterday, even beforehand, he's texting me. He goes, he goes, dude, I love you. You're my guy. And I'm gonna be in and out because I don't want to miss a ball of my team's practice. So this is going to be shorter than we had discussed. Sorry for that. He's focused. He's into it. If you're his North Star, you're going to benefit from it. Andre Agassi will not spare any details. I cannot wait to hear those conversations. Mickelson and Mensik is going to be interesting. Neither one has a ton of confidence coming in. Both lost early to both got upset at the US Open. Mickelson had a good summer up until then. Won a bunch of matches in Canada. I think he made quarters. I think he won a couple more in Cincinnati. Has quietly, very quietly entered the top 30 or thereabouts. Maybe he's 31 somewhere around. Around there, but great. All Court game. I got to play with him at the US Open Thursday night before against Fonseca. He's just a pleasure to be. I mean, just a nice, nice, nice guy, like, really like him. Great reputation as far as work ethic and Mensik. JW, how do you analyze his year? Because obviously he's 50 in the world, wins Miami, beats a guy named Novak in the final, and then has kind of been a little bit spotty, unpredictable. It's almost as if he was 50 wins this tournament goes up, but then maybe reverts back to more inconsistency than we may have expected post Miami in Masters 1000 win.

[C]

I see also a number next to his name, 20, which is his age. Yeah. When you watch this match today, this is a high school. He was a college junior against a college sophomore. So these are young players. We do not expect great consistency. Not everyone can be Carlos Alcaraz. Yeah, I mean, you win Miami, you beat Novak, you're a hot tennis commodity. And then it stands to reason that eventually the law of averages sort of imposes itself. There's a lot of game here. He had a nice Wimbledon. We actually spent time with. He learned how to play the drums during COVID and nicknamed himself the Minimal. That's a little trivia to take with you. But no, I mean, this is a game that's honestly still developing. This is still coming out of the whatever, the insect, the chrysalis. But I think this match between two guys who have never played each other, just bear in mind, these are two of the talents. Five years from now, we're going to be saying, remember we saw those guys on the Friday of Labor Cup. These are two guys who are arrowing like this. And just keep in mind college junior versus college sophomore. These are still two young talents.

[A]

Yeah, it'll be exciting. I think whoever gets off to a good start, I think is going to lead again. Confidence works in a couple of ways. One, you. It's just nice to know that whatever product you're going to put out there feels predictable. Right. When you have it, when you're playing well, you might lose. You might lose because someone's better. But when you're confident, you know at least within a variance of 5 or 10% what type of product you're. You're going to put out there. I don't think either one of these guys right now knows, am I going to be 40% of perfect? Am I going to be 50% of perfect? Whereas it's a little bit more predictable when you have matches when you're confident, so they're. That start matters, right? When you're confident and someone breaks you early, you're going, okay, level, set, we'll get back there. I know what my product is. Let's just start clawing back. When you're not confident, get down a break, there's a little bit of panic. Everything starts going a little faster. Your decision making, even if you play at a club level, you should know what this feels like, right? When you're not playing well, things feel like they're getting away. You make decisions out of panic as opposed to composure. So it'll be something to look for early in that match because there's not a reserve of confidence on either side with those guys.

[D]

Before you move on, can you talk about that in a team setting? Right. You talked about hearing the changeovers and hearing the switchovers. How much can these young guys learn from the vets in these moments and gain that confidence in real time?

[A]

I feel like I don't know that you can solve for 15 minutes at the start of a match. I don't know what advice is there past strategic, I think where the value with these young players, it might not even manifest this weekend, but hearing processes, I think, is the takeaway. Will it matter in the first 15 minutes of the match tonight if Rod Laver walks up to you and says, get off to a good start? Probably not. Now if Rod Laver says, you know, what worked for me was discipline over the course of 10 years, and in the midst of bad results, staying true to process, like that stuff is a little stickier. That's the stuff that I imagine these young players are trying to pull from this weekend. But there's. There's no magic potion for form. You have to get through the reps. You have to be stress tested, you have to be match tested. And I don't know that there's a band aid for that. Then we get to Fonseca Caboli. I mean, this is gonna be. This is gonna be fun. These are guys. The issue with this match and what these two are still trying to figure out in spite of their successes, is sometimes when you could hit a winner from any position on the court, you try to hit a winner from any position on the court, right? So, I mean, Fonseca is a talent. There's a reason why there's a height mechanism around this kid, because what you can't teach is. Is the way the ball explodes off of a racket, right? You can't teach ball control. You can't teach Power lines and crosscourt. You can work on it. I worked on it my entire career. I still. Everyone knew that I wasn't just going to randomly fire back in lines because it wasn't something I was comfortable doing. And frankly, I wasn't that good at it. Fonseca does the hardest parts well. He will get to the point where he doesn't miss two balls and get down love 30 in a game. Right. So I think it's raining in his game. It's not dissimilar to what we've seen the progression of Carlos Be Right to where it's the most beautiful thing ever, because it's like watching the most exciting roller coaster heart rate monitor. But then he plays his best tournament, in my opinion, that he's ever played at the US Open. And what was was consistent. There weren't these ebbs and flows. There wasn't the random dropping of a set, second round.

[C]

It's funny, though, because you could cut and paste that. That also at some level describes the opponent. There's real similarity, I think, between these two guys. I think Caboli's had some of his shine, probably taken by Sinner and even Musetti to another, to some extent. But Caboli's greatly entertaining. There's a lot of variety. This should really be a fun match, both of these guys. I don't know how you feel about this, too. I mean, you can say, oh, I make my U.S. open debut, but you play juniors. You know what the US Open is. I'm imagining putting myself in the place of these players. And you come here and you've got literally hundreds of major titles represented. You've got hall of Famers. What do you think these guys are going through? Just in terms this is a different debut than, hey, I'm playing Wimbledon for the first time.

[A]

Yeah. And I think this is something that you had mentioned when we were talking before, is playing in front of your peers, where you can look over and see them. That's just not something you do very often. Like, you play in front of crowds, but you've done that before, right? Jo Fonseca's played in front of crowds. He's playing in front of big crowds. When you look over and it's your team and there's an expectation set and a pressure from them, not. Not applied. Not like, you better win this, otherwise we're not friend. It's not that. It's just game recognizes game. And when you're having those eyeballs on you, who know what you're doing, who know when you really miss one, even if no one else in the stadium does, that presents its own type of pressure.

[C]

I think that's almost a secret sauce of this whole event. I don't know if you guys heard yesterday when Jannik Noah said, you've got to play for more than yourself. And when you win a tournament, you don't just share your shoelaces. You're celebrating with the public. And I think what the players are playing for here, what makes this so meaningful is exactly what Andy just said. These are your peers. These are people you want to impress. These are future opponents. These are people you want to measure yourself. Who doesn't want to perform well when the very best of your colleagues are right there, 20ft away from you, cheering you on? And I think, I think in a way what Andy just said, it's kind of the motor, it's kind of the cheat code for this whole event.

[A]

Yeah, agreed. And then we get to doubles, which, what a way to showcase doubles. And heard me. You know what I think, like, but this run now, you might not like the way the mixed doubles was done at the US Open. And I respect that for you. You might have problems with it. What it did was create a success story commercially with kids being able to see it go for free. The exposure of doubles, everything that I've heard for the last 20 years is we have to get eyeballs on doubles. That's the priority. And if that's the priority, then it was mission accomplished at, at. At the U.S. open. This is another place where doubles is absolutely showcased and it matters for the overall event in a big way. Which is why. Opening doubles match. Who are we putting out there? The number one player in the world, Carlos Alcaraz. Great.

[C]

Looking forward to seeing him play.

[A]

We.

[C]

We saw him play mixed doubles.

[D]

All right.

[C]

You know, it's a good, good effort.

[A]

Th.

[C]

This is a little bit.

[A]

I mean, it was. He was. They were. They were. They just wanted to flirt for an hour. Like, what are we doing here? I said, I said it. Whatever. I don't care. Feeding the beast. I don't care. That.

[C]

That shaggy haired man with, with black brown hair. That wasn't, that was.

[A]

That was like four haircuts ago for Carlos. Like, who cares?

[C]

Who can even remember? Remember Carlos played doubles with Rafa at the Olympics. Yeah, but did you want to explain, by the way? Do you just, just so we.

[A]

Yeah, I have it here. That's why I'm not, I'm not playing Angry Birds. I think you're going to talk about the scoring in the form.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. We have a graphic for the scoring.

[A]

So how, so how. It's a little bit different, right? Rules and scoring. So like why would Carlos play, not play singles on day one, Right. They're weighted differently. Like basically we want a spectacle, we want chaos on the last day. So the matches today count for one point for each side. Right. And the rules are that every person on the team has to play a singles match Friday or Saturday. So we understand that. So it's not as if we can play Carlos all three days. And you want to wait your strongest players towards the back end. So there is some strategy here with what days you play, which guys. Sorry. It's loading. Each time.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Friday match is worth one point. Saturday matches are two points. Sunday matches, three points each. The first team to reach 13 points if the score is 1212. The final doubled match determines the winning team. If Carlos plays, he can play doubles again. He cannot play with Mensik again. Right. Unless it gets to the tiebreaker where you play for it all. Then you can let a riptator chip. You can play any team that you want, but they're obviously going to wait the strongest players or the matchups that they want. Or Andre might wait the day where Jannik has to put forth his roster first. Right. And then save Carlos for that given matchup. So there's a lot in play that Mac could probably actually tell us the ins and outs. And you know, I haven't done it. I haven't been a captain here. I'm can barely do the math.

[C]

Do I like the. This is like, you know, what's the game show where every. Do we like that every day gets progressively more. More important and more points.

[A]

It's weird. I, I was torn on it and then when there's still a chance most times that someone can make up six points and the last two matches I'm going, oh, that'd be fun if that happened. Like, it's by design. This is a three day sugar rush where you're going to see the best players in the world. It's stacked so the teams can have a chance even towards the last day. I mean we've seen massive comebacks. You can make up a lot of ground on day three. So it's by design. Would you want that happened last year. Would you want the US Open to be played this way?

[C]

Yeah. No, it'd be kind of cool.

[A]

No, but for a three day celebration and let's, let's, let's call this what it is. It is a three day Celebration, starting with Rod Laver of the legend that came before us and gave us all of the opportunity. Right. We've been able to bring Bjorn Bourne back, Bjorn Borg back where we saw him for seven straight years being a captain. Andre Agassi back in the fold. This is why we're here. The format's exciting. It's the best it can possibly be for tv. You're gonna get a lot of those moments where Andre is trying to affect change on his players, which is endlessly entertaining. But what about you? I mean, how do you feel about the format? Just because it's not the same doesn't mean that it's not really fun and really good. We all used to go to Blockbuster.

[D]

It was my first job.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Stuff changes.

[C]

You don't still go to Blockbuster. No. We always say tennis. What do we say about tennis? Apart from it needs to showcase doubles more, it needs to innovate, it needs to think outside the box. It's a stagnant sport and we need to jazz it up. And I think the format here, the court, I mean, there are so many innovations here and a lot of them have honestly been sort of an open source material that other events are free to use if they want. I think you're right. I mean, realistically, we're not going to play a conventional tournament with this kind of accelerating points, but I think it's great. I think a. It probably precludes any sort of a blowout and Sunday play is still meaningful, but it also means the most important matches carry the most weight. Great.

[A]

Love it.

[C]

We love the, we do that on game shows. Let's do that on tennis as well.

[A]

Well, and the other thing that's, that's, that's really smart is when you're asking these, these players to take on a load in the middle of the season, 10 point tiebreaker. It's a lot easier to commit to these events when they're not three out of five sets. David's go. Not anymore. If we're asking these players to give up time that they don't have, it needs to be a shorter format.

[C]

I understand. Our guest is. Our guest is slowly making his way over.

[A]

So what we are gonna do is we are gonna bring. We are gonna run a quick ad roll on the other side. We are gonna get the thoughts of the man. The former captain of team world, John McEnroe will be back right after this. Support for this show comes from ServiceNow who are enabling people to do more fulfilling work, the work they actually want to do. There's a lot of talk about AI out there right now, and a lot of times the AI you hear about feels like it's hard to grasp. But ServiceNow is here to work with people and tackle the boring, busy work that always gets in the way. The stuff that slows you down and keeps you from doing the stuff you actually want to be doing. And they do it with their AI agents. By being built into the ServiceNow platform, they automate millions of repetitive tasks across it. HR, customer service, and more. You can automate any process with AI powered workflow generation. That means you can build workflows with reusable components, configurable playbooks, process mining, and advanced decision support so your people can focus on what really matters. And that's putting AI agents to work for the people. Find out how to get [e-mail] AI agents.

[E]

You're basking on a beach in the Bahamas. Now you're journeying through the jade forests of Japan. Now you're there for your alma mater's epic win. And now you're awake.

[D]

Womp, womp.

[E]

Which means it was all a dream. But with millions of incredible deals on Priceline, those travel dreams can be a reality. Download the Priceline app today and you can save up to 60% off hotels and up to 50% off flights. So don't just dream about that trip. Book it with Priceline.

[A]

Line. We kind of see him in the wings over there. This man. Imagine winning 150 some odd titles throughout your career. The man, the myth, the legend. Johnny Mack, everyone. So one more time. Come on, it's early. Let's get his attention. John McEnroe, everyone. All right, well, actually, there's, there's no there, there's no interview.

[D]

Five more times.

[A]

There's no interview. We're actually just going to feed your ego for the next 30. One more time.

[D]

There we go.

[A]

Mac. I don't know that anyone can speak to the process of captaining the labor cup more than you. And, and Borg, what are, what are Agassi and, and the old Yannick Noah feeling this morning?

[D]

They're feeling a lot of stress.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

They're trying to, you know, think on whether these decisions they made, the picks and, you know, how it's going to work out and then hope that there's some level of fun in this, you know, because after all, it's a great event. I think everyone's going to enjoy it. I did it for seven years. It's awesome. But at the time, you know, there's A lot. I feel like there's a lot at stake, a lot of money you can make. And it'd be gratifying since it's, you know, Europe generally has most of the top guys. It's sort of been an uphill battle. It seems like the playing field's getting a little more level. Unfortunately, we lost a couple guys.

[A]

Yeah, that was tough.

[D]

So that's tough too. You don't sort of know to the last second. You're always questioning whether you made the right move, but ultimately you try to as a captain make, you know, that little tiny bit of difference, maybe 5%. That can be the difference between winning and losing.

[A]

Well, and talk about this because we just kind of explained the format and the point structure on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, how the captains are kind of. There are very specific rules that everyone has to play the first two days. No doubles team can play together again until it's the tiebreak. So there are a lot of moving parts. When you're Team World and you lose a Ben Shelton or a Tommy Paul, it's twofold because obviously they're, you know, Ben Shelton's a top 10 player. Tommy Paul's been a top 15 player the last couple years. But also they're very literate in doubles. So you lose. Andre's lost a little bit of his kind of optionality with those two out of the lineup. That's a concern, right?

[D]

Yeah. You know, Ben was great for a couple years. He played doubles. Doubles is more important than you think. You know, coming critically important at the end. We had a year, the first year we finally won at Team World that this thing's not working too well. But it doesn't matter because I can hear you without it. But it keeps. I guess my ears are big. That's what I've determined. But one year, Francis, excuse me, Felix. OJ Ali scene played the doubles, you know, and he didn't want to really play the doubles and he had to play Novak. And we are way behind on the last day. The last day has got the most impact points wise, you can come from behind. I think that's why that they came up with this format. So it ain't over until it's over. So, you know, he didn't want to do it, but it turned out he was our MVP and got some confidence from the double. So you got to take that into consideration. Some guys, you know, I wanted Ben out there whenever he could play, you know, he's maximum amount of doubles matches he could play. And I'm not sure what Andres got in mind for the doubles if it's going to be three, you know, three different teams. But I wanted Ben to be with different players, like he played with everybody. And so it depends, like, who you got, who's eager to play. Obviously you want your best players. The last two days, you're going to see Alcaraz, assuming, get his feet wet. I didn't see, but I'm assuming he's playing at doubles, doubles tonight, and then he'll play singles and doubles tomorrow. I mean, not singles and doubles. He'll play singles Saturday and Sunday. I don't know if he'll play another double. So it's sort of like a feel thing in what the player wants, if they're ready for it. The format's great, though, because it's not best of five. You can do it all in an hour, hour and a half, two sets of tiebreaker. So I like that a lot. I think that's good for the fans, too.

[A]

How much when, when, when you and Patrick, who is your, your. Your vice captain, when you guys were running through scenarios, how often were you able to kind of predict what the other team was going to throw out there and how much did that dictate decision making versus, like, you know what? Let's just let it rip. Let's put our best team forward. How much were you trying to kind of speculate what. What Bjorn was trying to do?

[D]

You know, the good thing about some of the players, Taylor is an example. He's, you know, he's very well prepared as far as what he's going to do, and he also thinks through all the possible scenarios. So it's really a group thing that I had. I preferred it with the players were involved.

[A]

So when you had those meetings, the players were in there.

[D]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Interesting.

[D]

We'd make the final call so that they wouldn't feel guilty that, you know, they were having someone stay out and didn't want to be responsible for that. But they were absolutely part of, like, who they thought that the other, like Bjorn would pick. Absolutely.

[C]

If I may flatter you, I think you may well have been the ultimate labor cup player. You would have been a good threat. Singles, doubles, good. Yeah.

[D]

40 years ago.

[A]

Really going out of the limb there, JW.

[C]

Yeah. We're gonna call in McEnroe for the doubles. But have you thought, I mean, is there.

[D]

What.

[C]

What's your ideal labor cup matchup? I mean, have you, have you played Time Traveler and thought how this may have played out in the 80s?

[D]

Wow. God, I hadn't thought about that. While you imagine me and Jimmy, I.

[A]

Was going to say, well, let's give Mac.

[D]

I don't know if that would have happened.

[A]

Let's give Mac a second to think about it. We actually did this. Roger and I did this in Boston. And the whole thing was like, go back to a couple of years and who would have been on your team.

[C]

Exactly right.

[A]

And it was actually really fun to kind of walk through. It's like, okay, where does Saffin go? Where. Where's Hewitt going? I got Hewitt. That's a good one to have in the. But who would have been a couple of the players that you would have wanted on your team? Singles, doubles? Maybe someone you wouldn't fight with.

[C]

Oh, well, there goes that.

[A]

Right?

[D]

There's no one left. Bjorn Borg was the only guy I'd never gotten a fight with, you know, on or off the court. And he. He'd be on the other team, so there'd be slim pickings. I mean, Peter Fleming and I, you know, he was a top 10 player in singles at one stage, so people forget that. Yeah, he got hurt and curtailed his ability to play singles, but he could play that. So I would have loved to go, you know, like, Pete. I played Davis cup with Pete a couple times, so that would have been awesome. Had the option.

[A]

I was. I was at the one where you guys played the final and you guys played doubles. That was amazing.

[D]

Were you a ball by. I was the guy that threw it over my head.

[A]

I think I've told you this before. I was the guy. So they were playing Switzerland with, like, Rose, and it was, you know, before that guy Federer. But they had these big Swiss bells, and it was in Fort Worth and Open day one, and they're just banging these things, the road team, and they kind of cheered harder. So my brother and I, the next morning, went to a bike shop and bought a bunch of air horns. So that was us.

[D]

Thank you. That was my last Davis cup match I ever played, so that, you know, we went out in style. I had Pete on my team. Sampras, Andre Agassi, who's now obviously the captain. Amazing. And Jim Courier.

[A]

So it was the best Davis cup team of all time, in my opinion.

[D]

I appreciate that. We sort of felt like, you know, we were unbeatable. Pete and I played doubles the last two matches, so Pete ended up being a pretty good singles player. I did play Davis cup with Jimmy Connors once, and, you know, for nine of the 12 months, when we got to the finals and lost, we didn't speak to each other. So that's not the team environment you want.

[A]

So walk me through. Like, okay, so this is where the show gets good. You ready? Okay, so walk me through that. Walk me through that. You guys are on the same. Did you. Did you have to, like, schedule when to be in the locker room to avoid each other, or was it like you just pretended like the other person wasn't there?

[D]

Well, it's not more like a we. It was more like him.

[A]

He started it.

[D]

Oh, he definitely started it. We. I played Davis cup every year for seven years leading up to 1984 before. I've been part of, you know, some teams already. So it became apparent to Jimmy and his. His sort of manager. Manager that he. The only thing that he hadn't won was Davis cup because he had refused to play. It's not as if they didn't want him to play. He was the number one player. Then he became a distant second. No, I'm kidding. He wasn't a distant second at all. But we were sort of going at it. But we had respect for each other as. As players, and I think we made. I'd like to think we made each other better players. But when it coincided with that year, what happened to be my best year on the tour that I ever had.

[A]

So that year still arguably the best year that's ever been had on.

[D]

Let's talk about that for a while.

[A]

No, that's what we. The last time you were on, we talked about that.

[D]

Yeah, right, Right. So I was beating his ass pretty regularly. So at one point, Arthur. Late, great Arthur Ashe, who was the captain at the time, says to me, john, you know, the team dinner is on Wednesday. Is it okay if you don't come because Jimmy doesn't want.

[A]

That's not a true story.

[D]

I wouldn't make that up, would I?

[A]

Yes.

[D]

No, it is true. I go, arthur, you know I love you, and. But you're also aware that I played every match the last seven years. And Jimmy's just come in and so it's. It looks good on his resume.

[A]

That's fair. Feedback.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

Do you. Do you think maybe he should be the one that doesn't go? And so he thought, sorry, was there.

[A]

Not a world where you guys could just exist and not be, like, petulant for a dinner?

[D]

So, yeah, I think there's a. Was a world. But, you know, then. Then he realized that I was right. And so then Jimmy ended up not coming to the dinner. But it was sort of awkward, obviously, that we're Going through like pretty much the whole year not speaking to each other. We get to the Davis cup final, we're in Sweden. Jimmy's all crazed in his head because his daughter Aubrey was about to be born.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

So he was out of it like a little man. He was worried about that, didn't want to miss that. I was. Had just met in a new relationship. Turned out to be my wife, my now my ex wife. So my head was all over the place. So we went out. We lost the first couple matches, so we were in big trouble. You gotta win three in a row to win. We're playing the doubles.

[A]

You guys are playing together?

[D]

No, me and Peter Fleming are playing and we're playing Edberg and Yara. They're great teams.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And so we're two sets to one down, it's a tiebreaker. In the fourth set, we got to win this tiebreaker. And all of a sudden I see. I'm looking at the corner and I see, you know, Jimmy's cheering for me.

[A]

Way to go. See, hey, he won him over.

[D]

I go, the hell with that guy.

[C]

Thought you were killed him with cut.

[D]

And I felt terrible because here I am almost like, screw that, man. I'm gonna lose this. And I was playing for my country, you know, So I felt horrible in a way. And then afterwards, Jimmy and I went out and had dinner.

[A]

What?

[D]

See, yeah. All of a sudden was like, it's all good, John.

[C]

I love their booing.

[D]

I'm like, what? We don't want peace, so I can never quit. Listen, I hadn't seen Jimmy for six years. They just saw him last week. And we agreed, Andy, as long as you're there, because, you know, I know he used to coach you a little bit. Let's come and play a little golf and have dinner afterwards.

[A]

I. I want to insert that.

[C]

I heard that. Cat dogs. That's great.

[A]

I will. I'll be the piece. I'll be the peace broker. I would love to. Done. I'm gonna report back. Mac, this better not just be for the video, because I would love to do that.

[D]

No, no, absolutely.

[C]

We thought we were living in polarized times, and next thing we hear, look at this.

[A]

I mean, guys, if McAdoon Connors can go on a golf trip, we can do anything. We can do anything.

[D]

Yes. He wants to beat my ass on the golf course and he probably will.

[A]

He probably.

[C]

He's pretty good, I think my. Speaking of tennis history.

[D]

Yeah, tennis history. So last night at the gala, you know, we had a chance to hear you speak About Rod Laver?

[A]

It was great. It was a wonderful, fantastic it.

[D]

What can you tell us about the guy that was your idol and that this cup is. Is named after what he means? Well, what I said about him. I don't know if people know baseball, but he is our Babe Ruth. He's like sort of the person I saw. I used to cry when he lost to Ken Roswell and he had these huge arm. I'm like, how does a guy have an arm that big? So I did all these, you know, squeeze balls, all this stuff to try to get my arm bigger. Then it turned out I'm the only number one in history that had the same left arm size, left arm and right arm.

[A]

That's true.

[D]

Yeah. My left arm.

[A]

I'm sorry, how is it even measured? Were people like in the 50s bringing out like, like a tape? Like.

[D]

It wasn't quite the 50s, Andy.

[A]

But no, I'm not. No, wait, wait, wait, wait. Time out. It was the 80s. Okay, don't do that. Don't.

[D]

John, did he just say.

[A]

If you're gonna say I was the only one who had an equal size arm ever, that would imply that the measurements had gone back before you existed. Correct?

[D]

Correct.

[A]

Okay, so what did they do in the 50s? Did they just, like measure it with, like a ruler? How do you know that?

[D]

They went into a cave and they.

[A]

Sorry. Your tribute to Rod.

[D]

I don't know that for a fact. Yeah, everyone I saw from Rod Laver for to this day that whoever their predominant armor was bigger. But Rod was someone who I got to meet briefly when I used to have a big event in Dallas at WCD finals. And he was the man. First guy that was on TV playing the WC events won the Grand Slam twice, which is unheard of. No guy's done that.

[A]

And explain just. When we say the Grand Slam, we don't mean a tournament, right? You all understand what this is? Explain the 1962 of things, the amateur turns pro. Wins all four majors in the same calendar year. Bananas twice.

[D]

So no one's done that since. A couple guys have been reasonably close. Novak most recently had won three in a row and lost in Medvedev. I think it was four years ago at the US Open. But it was unheard of. Don Budge did it in the 30s. It wasn't until Rod did in 62. But here was the problem, unlike now, where, you know, some guys can make a lot of tremendous living. No money in tennis. So, you know, in order. He had a kid, he had, you know, he had to find A way to make some money. So he had to turn pro. So when you turn pro back in the 60s, you weren't allowed to play the Grand Slam events. So for five years, Rod Laver played zero Grand Slam events, even though he was the best player in the world in 68. Finally, tennis came to the realization it'd be better if all the best players competed. And so they opened the tennis the first year ironically, which was beautiful. As a soldier in the army, Arthur Ashe won the US Open, which was a great message. Moving to the future that led to people. Well, thank you. I only wish he saw his stadium, Arthur. But in 69, Rod, at, I believe 30, 31 years old, won the Grand Slam for the second time, beating everybody. So that was even more impressive than it was the first time. And he continued to play because he still hadn't really made any money. I'll tell you, he. He made a hundred thousand dollars. John, you probably know this because you're a student of the game. He played like 35 tournaments in 1970 to reach a hundred thousand dollars in prize money. But first round loser at the U.S. open is $110,000.

[A]

Well, that's because of Rod Laver, though. I hope all of the players that are in these tournaments playing for these sums of money, right. Fans that can go into this beautiful building today and have an amazing experience. I mean, talk about. What I found interesting was you started talking about what did Rod Laver's life look like in 1963 when he was playing for money venues.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Was he playing five times a week? Who is he playing against? What does that cadence look like? You're going from playing Wimbledon in 1962 and winning the Grand Slam to 1963. You're playing. What are you playing, carnivals? What are you doing?

[D]

Oh, you're playing any. Anywhere on the court. Probably here, you know, like, they weren't allowed in there, but they play here and put on some, you know, playing wood, playing some cement surface that was nowhere near basketball. Basketball gyms, like college, high school gyms, getting up and having to pick this, the cord up afterwards, put it in a truck and go to the next place and do that five, six days a week. And that's in order to make, you know, 50, $75,000 in a year. So it was a totally different time. I don't think the players of today realize, like, what was the sacrifices that players made to allow them to have this opportunity to play this incredible sport. But hopefully if we keep educating people, they'll understand more and the players that are playing now, these young kids, thankfully, I think a guy like Alcaraz gets it and obviously Roger. Thank you, Roger Federer. Yeah. Because Roger saw what a vision and he. He wanted to pay tribute to Rod Laver and he's done a wonderful job.

[A]

Talk us, talk us through. So this event in 2017, they call you and Bjorn and this is obviously in tribute to Rod Laver and in tribute to those years. Right. Where he is playing in basketball gyms. And let's make sure that the current players get together to celebrate, but also understand. Right. Let's. Let's tell that story. You get the call in 2017, how was it laid out to you? What was your process towards a. Yes for. For this event?

[D]

Well, the process was pretty easy. You know, sort of like Rod Laver account me in basically more or less. I met with Roger and Tony Godsick, his manager at Wimbledon. They laid out this idea. I said, sounds like, you know, sort of like make it like the Ryder cup, which is huge in golf.

[A]

Yep.

[D]

And have an event that brings the best of the best together and puts them together as a team. And I. And then when they said on top of everything else, the other coach is going to be Bjorn Borg, was he.

[A]

Confirmed first or was it like, we want you and Bjorn, I believe.

[D]

I don't remember the exact timing of it, but I think that Bjorn said that he'd only do it if I was the captain. No, I'm just making that up. No, I think it was sort of pretty much at the same time. Be honest. You know, they were. I don't know if it was like, look, we're talking about literally the same day, I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So I think it was a. I know for me and I'm. I read. Just read Bjorn's book. So he said the same thing. Very easy decision to be part of this and to try to sort of cement his legacy. And as. As much as we can or as little as we can to help that we want to do it.

[A]

And also a lot of things have to go right. Like you can have an idea for this event, but you also have to have influence to make it happen. You have to be able to call Johnny Mack and you have to have the credibility to, you know, for him to think, okay, let's do this for Rod. That goes to Roger. Right. To think through the storytelling and the other pieces of it. But as I was sitting here with Yannick Noah came. Came yesterday and he's not someone like I've known you since I was 17 and I was a practice partner for, for your Davis cup team. I don't know Yannick that well. And for him to come here and be able to tell his history, maybe there was a seven year old who didn't know his journey. The fact that he's like this rock star. And if you know his influence on the game, it's not only about Rod Laver. Obviously he's the inspiration. He's the tent pole for this thing. But we're retelling the stories of our legends to entirely new generations of fandom through this event. Not just Rob, you know, but I'll.

[D]

Give you a quick Roger story. We went years ago, me and Bjorn and Roger played James Blake. We went to Asia. And it was after he had gotten sick at the finals in China and had to pull out and was also struggling with some injuries. And I said, this guy's not gonna pull play these exhibitions, it doesn't matter. And he's got to take a break. Not only did he play, but he, like, we had a couple chances to eat some dinners, but he talked about how much he loved the traveling, how much he loved the press conferences, how much he loved the fans being around him. He loved everything about it. I'm like, really? How can you love the traveling when you're going, you know, all over the world constantly or some of the parts. And it's sort of that positive energy that he's got that he brings the joy that he played with, but just his vibe as a person rubs off on you.

[A]

Yep.

[D]

And so that to me made, you know, I was like, wow, the way you look at things, if you look at it in a different way. And I think that's sort of what's been happening with this event. Look at the screen behind you. You see guys, a lot of guys that aren't really very demonstrative or got way more so. I mean, obviously some of the guys naturally are and can let them out, but I think that the players understand that have played this, what a great experience it is. I hope this is the only last thing. I hope that they make this more of a standalone event as opposed to. Well, I mean, there's like tournaments going on this week. Not that, you know, many of the top players are playing, but other players had to think about, oh, I've got to play in Japan next week, I got to go to China, I got to worry about points rankings. So this has got to be something that's like a time of the year where you don't put anything else so that all the players.

[A]

Is there such thing in tennis? How does that work in practice? We finished November 27th.

[D]

That's true. It's very difficult to know when that is. But like, listen, Davis cup was. It meant a lot to me. And now all of a sudden, you know, like, what's happening with Davis cup, you know, and so you have to figure out a way to help our sport, not sort of just sort of prolong the agony with some of this stuff. Let me not to bum everyone out.

[C]

Let me tie that. Because I heard a fun story about the very first year there were. No one knew what to expect. Right. The totally new concept. We're rolling it out. Are the players going to take it seriously? And they ended up having the opposite. They said the players were so nervous.

[A]

That they would walk out to the.

[C]

Court in Prague and there was so much tension in the air, you almost had to have a release valve. Were you surprised by from the get go how seriously the players took it?

[D]

Yes and no. I mean, I was surprised in a way because some people were trying to portray it as some type of exhibition, which was total BS as far as I was concerned.

[A]

Yeah, but you were slightly biased.

[D]

Maybe I was slightly biased. I was, you know, but the moment this started, literally once you saw them start competing and the way the format work, you realize that this was something that it was going to be taken seriously and just dismiss anyone that thought otherwise. The Prague event, the first one was perfect example. Went down to the wire. I think Nick had. Kyrgios had a match point on Roger to take it to the final doubles, which would have been unbelievable. He ended up losing. Losing that match. Not like, wow, bad loss. And I don't think so to Roger. But nonetheless, it was a very exciting event. And I think people, the players have been feeding off that ever since. And these things that seem like you're like, oh, why do we have to do that? Look at that, you know, in front of the Golden Gate Bridge or something. You're like, wow. You know, so you, you do things that you don't normally do in tournaments.

[A]

Talk. Talk to us about Matt, because there's, there's not a lot of things in tennis that, that didn't come quickly to you. You were at Stanford and you made the semifinals of, of Wimbledon. Right.

[D]

Like, you, before I went there, you.

[A]

Before you went, Sorry, you were going to go to Stanford and you made the semifinals. That's.

[C]

That's like, what did you mention the roommate? What'd you do this summer?

[A]

Yeah, what'd you do this summer? Like, I had an internship work at a hardware store semis of Wimbledon.

[D]

I played a lot of tournaments after Wimbledon. Yeah. You know, a lot of them. I was so burnt out that I went to my coach and I, you know, the coach of the tennis team, and he said, I know some of you guys have played a lot over the summer, so come back when you want. You're ready to practice. So I didn't come up. I didn't show up for practice for two and a half months.

[A]

Yeah, I. I would. I would be okay with that if my.

[D]

But I said, look, I am made.

[A]

The semis of Wimbledon. I. I wouldn't care much. But the point where I was going with it, Mac, was you took your lumps in this event as, as a captain.

[D]

I did.

[A]

The first however many years we talk about how much the players care and how much the cats they'll fit on one hand, but it just. Just barely. But talk about that moment where you finally broke through and talk about the worry where it's like, am I going to be. Was there ever a thought, where am I going to be a captain that actually doesn't get on the board? That's. That's a new feeling for you.

[D]

I. At probably at 3 or 4, I started feeling like the Washington Generals playing the Globetrotters, you know, because it was like we were close but no cigar. And it did sort of feel like we were running uphill a little bit. And these guys, you know, nine of the top 10 would be from Europe. And we're like, how are we going to do this? And we just. We. To the players credit, all the players, they kept battling and we were. We weren't giving up or giving in, and we just a little bit overmatched, but you get a little bit of luck, you know, like that day, that final day in London, we finally were in London and would look terrible. And it was like, here we go again. We're going to be 05.

[A]

This.

[D]

This is horrible. And then all of a sudden, you know, we convince Felix, play the doubles. That'll be good. Good. Warm up. He doesn't really play a lot of double. He won that. He beat Novak of all. You know, that was the year that Roger and Rafa played. That was the last match that Roger played in the doubles. We were down match point there. And people like, why didn't you let, you know those guys win? I go, look, they did okay. Roger Ruff. We need the point.

[A]

I can confirm that he's one enough.

[D]

Yes. And you can vouch for that. And so when we got to like him and then Francis played and it was just. We had the best celebration we ever had. We finally let it all hang out and it was incredible. And then we won again. And we were so close. Last year we were two games away. We had. Francis was playing Zev. Damn that guy. Cuz I think it's like he's played five out of the seven. And the two he didn't play, we won. And the five. He likes to rub it into me all the time. Hey, John, do you know I won all five when I played Screw you. Yeah. And Francis was a set in four, three serving. And all he had to do is hold twice. So I even now, like a year later, what should I have said to him to sort of get him over that hump? You start thinking about that and then you're. You like, God, I should have done so. So you always wonder the what ifs. You try to not think about it too much. And then the last match, Carlos, this guy Alcaraz, turns out he's pretty good, huh?

[C]

That blondie?

[D]

Yeah, that blonde guy. He played Taylor. And Taylor fought and fought. He was getting. Alcaraz was playing incredible. And we were down a set in 4, 2, 5, 3. And he broke back and we're like, oh my God. Maybe Taylor could pull the rabbit out of the hat. But he kept his cool. From Pushkin Industries, I'm Jonathan Goldstein and Heavyweight is back. The new season is bigger than ever. Bigger hopes.

[E]

I keep waiting for this moment when.

[A]

He says, mom, I get it.

[D]

I'm sorry. Bigger dreams. Tom Hanks wants to. This is a real chance and bigger heartbreaks.

[B]

I thought it would be my movie moment and maybe he would even whisper in my ear, I've always been in love with you.

[D]

Check out new episodes of Heavyweight on Apple Podcasts.

[E]

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[D]

You know, listen, I'm pulling for team World, obviously, because. Yeah, yeah. Yes. But yeah, Earth, I will say this. Thank God for Carlos Alcaraz in our sport.

[A]

Hell, yes. Absolutely. Johnny Mac, thank you all for joining us here at Serve Live. A couple more questions with with Johnny Mac. When I, when I knew you were coming on the pod, and obviously the labor cup of things, I thought to myself, how cool to have this lifelong rivalry, friendship, relationship with Bjorn Borg and then have an excuse to then have shared space and seven more years of memories as captain. What has that meant to you, to be able to kind of share this labor cup experience with your friend Bjorn?

[D]

You know, I thank you for even bringing that up because Bjorn Borg and I are sort of synonymous with each other in a way and everything. I mean, I remember watching Wimbledon when I was 13 or 14, and he was on the center court for the first time and coolest guy ever. The coolest guy. They said this before, so maybe some of you have heard it, but as he shook hands and he won his match, literally like 200 girls ran on the court and tried to hug him and grab him. And that's the moment I decided I want to be a professional tennis player. And then to be able to experience, like, the unbelievable highs in some lows, more highs than lows. Playing him in Wimbledon finals, US Open finals, being his friend, feel like you're bringing the game to a new level and then having him walk away from the game, you know, to me way too early. Read his book. Take by his book. Well, and then to be able finally after all this, I mean, you have lives, family, kids. We live in different places. The Laver cup for the two of us was the greatest. A chance to just, you know, rekindle some old memories, but mainly just to be able to see each other and hang out a little bit. You don't do it much, obviously, because you're with your team, he's with his. It's more almost on the court.

[A]

Sure.

[D]

You know, talking on the court and go, hey, this, this isn't bad. Isn't it? Just a chance to hopefully say, hey, let's make sure we keep in touch and see more of each other.

[C]

I don't know if you remember this, you played Bjorn in San Francisco at, at. At an exhibition event. And I don't know if you, you played the, the Cow palace as well. We were talking yesterday.

[D]

Yeah, exactly 15 times I played the cow.

[A]

Big fans of cows over there.

[D]

It still smell there. You know they, the Cow palace, they had those animals in before. It was rough.

[C]

See, I was going to tee you up for. How great is it that tennis is.

[A]

Back at the strong tennis market and.

[D]

We'Re talking about bar now they're in this place. I mean, it's pretty good.

[C]

Exactly.

[D]

It's a nice, you know, Golden State plays, right? Yeah, I had, I thought they played over in Oakland.

[A]

Oh, they moved. They did.

[D]

Oh, they moved.

[A]

Yeah. Then they won a bunch of titles and that's, that's what it gets you. Thank you, Steph Curry and Steve Kerr. One more thing that I was, I was curious about. You mentioned, you've mentioned Bjorn's book a couple of times. You've mentioned that, that you read it. How is it for you reading this book from your friend, your rival, Ups and downs. Like there's, there's. There's been this element of mystery around, around Bjorn. Right. Walks away after you beat him in the U S Open. We don't really see him again. I guess his struggles you probably might have known about more than the rest of us, but not exactly super public. What was, what were your emotions when you were reading the, the book back with Bjorn?

[D]

My emotions were. I went to the index and I went.

[A]

I looked up John McEnroe. Yeah, there you go yourself.

[D]

34. 110 to 112. No, pretty much. But then there was no index so I had to read the whole goddamn thing. I could have cut through the, the muck. No, I, there wasn't really anything, honestly in the book that I didn't really. Yeah, you know, there's a few things where there was more isolation than I was aware of and you know, it's difficult because by nature we're sort of, you know, on our own. You know, it's a sport where you don't really mix that much, especially when you're playing and it gets tougher with family and stuff. So there was sort of like, wow, I wish I had been there a little earlier and known more. But you know, even then the person oftentimes, even if you're close, is not going to tell you that. So it's a really difficult to know. But like it. I guess the bottom line is at the end it seems like he's in a great place. That's what matters to me. God, I love the guy. That's the bottom line. Yeah. If he's happy, I'm happy. But, you know, it's a journey, you know, to me, I had a documentary a few years ago, and people wanted to talk about the years, obviously. And you want to, you want that to be part of it when I played in the Wimbledon and this, that and the other thing. But at the end of the day, for us as ex athletes and players, to me, the journey and where I came from, what I learned from on and off the court, my kids, my second chance in a marriage, etc. That was more important to me. And hopefully that's what is what it is for him.

[A]

Yeah, I think the fascinating parts of, of, of the books and my, my wife and I read Andre's book when it came out. He sent me a copy beforehand. He goes, just so you're not on your heels when you're being asked about it, there's some pretty big stuff in there. And my wife read Andre's book and said, I think I can understand parts of your world better for having read this book.

[D]

Yeah, right.

[A]

So there is that kind of thing between tennis.

[D]

You should read Andre's book also, if you haven't read it. The beginning of the book, it seemed.

[C]

Got a copy here.

[D]

There we go. Sorry, I don't sign those.

[A]

Oh, you're having him sign it. I thought you just never left home without it, have you? Has that been with you since 2008? Okay, well, that's a. It's a good one.

[D]

It was in the beginning, he went to Balateri's, and if you go by Andre's, you know what he said about it? It was like tennis's version of Lord of the Flies. Yeah. So, you know, you're like, whoa. I mean, how does he, you know, come out of that alive? You know, and other people. It's not so bad. So it was very interesting. That's a totally different read in a way than. Than Bjorn's.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So that's good to have that contrast. And then there's the book about the politicians.

[A]

No, we're kidding. Thank you for watching, sir. No, honestly, Mac, thank you for, for being with us. You've been the voice of tennis on top of being one of the icons of. Of our sport. We know that as much as you, you'd want to sit around and listen to a dumb little podcast for the next hour, there's more important things. There's actual live tennis going on at the Laver cup today. Day one starts off with Opel, Carood, Mickelson, Mensik, Fonseca, Caboli. Tonight Mickelson and Fritz and doubles Menick coming back. The double up for Mickelson and Menik and some guy named Alcaraz gonna finish out the day.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

One more round of applause for John McEnroe. Thank you so much.

[D]

Thanks a lot for watching.

[A]

Serve Live brought to you by ServiceNow. We will see you tomorrow. Bring your friends.

[D]

10:30Am Keep Keep the Serve Live going. I love the podcast.

[A]

Appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks to ServiceNow for their support. ServiceNow wants to help people do the fulfilling work they actually want to do. Work like hosting this podcast. You know what people don't want to do? Boring, busy work. Now, with AI agents built into the ServiceNow platform, you can automate millions of repetitive tasks in every corner of your business. It, HR and more. So your people can focus on the work that they want to do. That's putting AI agents to work for people. It's your turn. Get [e-mail] AI agents.

[B]

Support for the show comes from Mercury. What if banking did more? Because to you, it's more than an invoice. It's your hard work becoming revenue. It's more than a wire. It's payroll for your team. It's more than a deposit. It's landing your fundraiser. The truth is, banking can do more. Mercury brings all the ways you use money into a single product that feels extraordinary to use. Visit mercury.com to join over 200,000 entrepreneurs who use Mercury to do more for their business. Mercury Banking, that does more.