Larry Stefanki talks Coaching Iconic Players, Winning Indian Wells As A Wildcard, & More

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Served with Andy Roddick

Episode: Larry Stefanki talks Coaching Iconic Players, Winning Indian Wells As A Wildcard, & More
Date: March 10, 2026
Host: Andy Roddick
Guest: Larry Stefanki

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Episode Overview

In this episode, former World No. 1 Andy Roddick sits down with the legendary tennis coach and raconteur Larry Stefanki. They go deep into Stefanki's remarkable life in tennis: from winning Indian Wells as a wildcard and local club pro, to coaching an array of unique personalities (including Roddick himself), and his candid takes on player development, the state of the modern game, and what it takes to win at the highest level. Throughout, Stefanki’s blend of unfiltered honesty, humor, and storytelling delivers both wisdom and entertainment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Larry Stefanki: Day-to-Day and Indian Wells Reflections

• On Current Life (09:33): Larry shares he’s based in San Diego, works with local juniors, and recently attended Indian Wells. Notes how the event has become a massive, festival-like scene.
  • Quote: "It’s a big scene now. A lot of sideshows, I'll put it that way. Three days for me is my limit. It's kind of like fish...after that it starts to, you know what, smell." (09:55, Larry)

2. Coaching Philosophy and Working with Iconic Players

• Diverse Player Roster (12:09): Larry has coached John McEnroe, Marcelo Rios, Yevgeny Kafelnikov, Tim Henman, Fernando Gonzalez, and Andy Roddick—each wildly different in personality and style.

  • "I don’t coach countries or flags. I just coach players and see where they’re coming from, and what they want to attain in this game." (12:34, Larry)

• Adjusting to Different Cultures and Mindsets: Larry’s global experience as a player made him appreciate and adapt to a range of personalities and backgrounds.

• Coaching Approach:

  • Focuses on enhancing what a player does well, but places great emphasis on shoring up deficiencies: "Let's shore up the deficiencies...If you have a great forehand and a great backhand, but your serve is like, you know, dementia, you've got a lot of work to do." (17:41, Larry)
  • Insists on discipline and repetition in practice, not quick fixes or shortcuts: "It’s a continuous continuity game. It has to be the same, the same, the same." (29:13, Larry)
  • Calls himself a ‘truth teller’: "I am, but I'm a truth teller...I have been relieved of duty, and I've walked away from duty." (28:30, Larry)

3. Coaching Roddick: Funny & Profound Moments

• First Day Coaching Roddick (19:59):

  • Larry describes his blue-collar, intensive style, and how Roddick pushed back on suggestions to change his backhand technique.
  • "I said, Andy, Andy, Andy. What are you doing over there on your backhand?...He goes, Larry, Larry, Larry, Larry, you're starting to talk about changing my stroke production, and you better know what the f--- you're talking about." (21:55, Larry)

• On Hard Work & Honesty:

  • Larry set high standards ("First thing you gotta do, you gotta lose fifteen pounds. You gotta move in this game now." (23:27, Larry))
  • Roddick accepted the bluntness and work, crediting Larry for pushing him to maximum discipline.

• Nutrition Battles & “Applebee’s Boy”:

  • Roddick shares Larry’s dismay at his old eating habits (“He would get Chili’s and Applebee’s...I said, dude, you’re gonna be like a Ferrari...not this garbage you’re sticking, you work like a rhino.” (24:02-24:44, Larry))
  • Hilarious story about Roddick sneaking a processed muffin in an airport lounge, and Larry instantly sniffing out the ‘starch ball’ with comic exasperation. (26:18-27:01)

4. Managing Talent, Options, and Discipline

• On Exceptional Talents (Federer, Alcaraz, Rios, McEnroe):

  • Explains the challenge for “artists” like Rios: "He's stuck at 20 because he's a circus act. He doesn’t play the stock shot at the biggest moments...He’s got to get rid of 18 of the 20 shots." (33:43-35:28, Larry)
  • "With the truly gifted, you have to let them have structure but still be free. Very difficult...you don’t want to strangle the talent out of these guys." (35:28, Larry)

• On Modern Tennis Evolution:

  • Critiques the modern rallying obsession; wants more players closing at net.
  • Praises Alcaraz’s all-court game but wishes for more mental discipline: "If he had a little bit more discipline mentally, he would be beating these guys 2 and 2..." (45:14, Larry)
  • States that ball control, risk management, and point construction are undervalued in the current power-centric era.

5. Greatest Backhands & Player Comparisons

• McEnroe & Rios:

  • "The fact that Mac's backhand never gets put on the greatest backhands of all time list is fucking insane...To basically suck your time away because of positioning...he threw a three shot combo before you knew the first one was thrown." (38:55-39:52, Andy)
  • Larry: "It was the most efficient redirect shot off the backhand side maybe ever." (39:58, Larry)

• On Djokovic:

  • "Novak, I think he took a lot of that old school thing...with a new school twist...his biggest differentiator is switching directions and ball control." (42:46-43:08, Andy)

6. Winning Indian Wells as a Club Pro (1985)

• The Cinderella Run (62:10–77:32):
  • Larry recounts being hired as the La Quinta club's 'touring pro' mainly to hit with top players, ranked around 140 in the world, then receiving a wildcard.
  • Walks through the unlikely, surreal journey—playing out of his mind on familiar courts, dealing with interruptions (like a spectator’s heart attack during a match), and eventually taking down top seeds.
  • "After I beat Scott Davis...they put me into the center. I'm playing Holmes, then Pate in the finals...Snap out of it, this is your one opportunity." (62:16–73:07, Larry)
  • Vivid details: riding his bike to the site, brutal desert conditions, and mind games with opponents and himself, culminating in a best-of-five finals victory.
  • "You know, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then." (77:27, Larry)

7. Coaching Relationships: Authority, Timing & Communication

• How Stefanki balances being an authority figure and employee:
  • "I'm not a Lego piece...I'm a truth teller." (28:30, Larry)
  • Picks his moments carefully for giving feedback, lets the player come to him, adapts communication for each personality.
  • "Read the room, know the animal...Everybody is different." (50:57–51:16, Larry)
  • Draws on lessons from his mentor and father-in-law, NFL MVP John Brodie: "Do something about it. Get better. Strap it on and get better. Put it in the hard mile." (55:13–56:07, Larry)

8. Unfiltered on the Modern Coaching Landscape

• Not interested in returning to the full-time tour unless perfect chemistry and the right scenario arise:
  • “I’m not a Lego piece...We all have to be on the same page.” (79:53, Larry)
  • Rejects working with parents or agents: “I don’t coach parents. I don’t coach agents, okay? That’s the number one rule for me.” (82:17, Larry)
  • Emphasizes lifelong experience and true partnership as essential for high-level coaching.

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Memorable Quotes

• On the coach-player relationship:

  • "If you're not number one, dude, you got some work to do." (28:30, Larry)

• On coaching Roddick:

  • "This guy was an Applebee’s guy...I said, you’re gonna be like a Ferrari." (24:02, Larry)

• On winning Indian Wells as a wildcard:

  • "I get a wild card because I worked for the club where it was played. Absurd." (06:39, Andy)

• On players with too many options:

  • "He's stuck at 20 because he's a circus act." (35:28, Larry, on Rios)

• On young coaches/players seeking shortcuts:

  • “It’s like a thousand-page novel...you can’t skip chapters, you can’t go to the end.” (81:04, Larry)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Opening Banter/Stefanki’s character intro – 00:27–06:39
• Coaching philosophy, background & first paying jobs – 11:12–17:41
• Stories from working with different players – 17:41–35:28
• Managing talent: McEnroe, Rios, Federer, Alcaraz – 33:23–36:23
• State of the modern game, Alcaraz, Novak, net play – 43:51–46:52
• Communication, timing, and the “read the room” approach – 49:11–52:23
• John Brodie—Mentor & mentality – 52:23–58:24
• Full Indian Wells 1985 Run—Cinderella Story – 62:10–77:32
• Coaching future, not wanting to return to the full tour – 78:43–84:41
• Wrap-up, reflection on partnership with Roddick – 84:41–86:17

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Notable/Entertaining Moments

• Stefanki’s story of calling out Roddick’s “rhinoceros” weight, and Roddick eating “what food eats” to get in shape.
• Larry’s immediate detection of Roddick sneaking starch at the airport: “So you just gonna eat that starch ball right now?...You're Applebee’s boy, though.” (26:33, Larry)
• Andy’s retelling of losing a golf bet to Larry’s legendary one-armed father-in-law, John Brodie, who drained a 45-foot putt with his left hand: “You suck.” (60:00, Andy retelling Brodie’s quote)
• “If I had to go back and start my career again right now, you’d be the guy that I would hire.” (84:41, Andy paying tribute to Larry)

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Takeaways

• Larry Stefanki is as honest and colorful off the court as he is stoic during matches—his stories pull back the curtain on what real top-level coaching, personal discipline, and competitive fire look like.
• Listeners get a rare, inside view of how world-class tennis players and coaches think, prepare, and react to adversity—plus vintage, hilarious, and heartfelt moments between old friends.
• The episode is a masterclass in tennis wisdom, coaching philosophy, and pure entertainment.

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Don’t miss Thursday’s Q&A episode for more Larry Stefanki stories and listener questions!

Transcript

[Larry Stefanki]

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[Andy Roddick]

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[Larry Stefanki]

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[Andy Roddick]

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[Larry Stefanki]

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[Andy Roddick]

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[Larry Stefanki]

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[Andy Roddick]

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[Larry Stefanki]

Hey, Andrew. How you doing?

[Andy Roddick]

The man, the myth, the legend. One of my favorite people in my life in tennis. Andrew.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's when he knows I'm serious.

[Andy Roddick]

I'm, like, all rattled. I'm, like, having ptsd.

[Larry Stefanki]

It takes a long time for me to commit to somebody. Like, I didn't know Andy at all, but I remember Kenny Myerson calling me up. You're on the list. You're in the top five on the list. I said, hey, Kenny, lose my number. I have a job. Tell me when I am the list. And I hung up.

[Andy Roddick]

No, no, no, no, no. I'm going to correct this part.

[Larry Stefanki]

I'm going to shut my mouth, okay? That's hard for me to do. Okay? You want an erotic story? Okay, first day. Let's just hit some cross courts. I couldn't take it anymore. I said, andy, Andy, Andy, Andy. What are you doing over there on your backhand? What are you thinking about with that footwork and your preparation on your backhand? He goes, larry, Larry, Larry, Larry, Larry. You're starting to talk about changing my stroke production. And you better know what the you're talking about, because I've been doing. And then now I'm starting to get a little worked up.

[Andy Roddick]

I feel like this story has gotten better with age.

[Larry Stefanki]

And he gives me that eye, okay? You know how his eyes are when he gets a little worked up? And I said, listen, dude, let me tell you right now. I've coached a lot of great backhands in my day, and I know one thing that ain't going to work.

[Andy Roddick]

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[Larry Stefanki]

Hey, everyone.

[Andy Roddick]

Welcome to Served. Brought to you by ServiceNow subscribe on all of the things producer Mike is just doing Father Stuff just ripping Disney. So not here today. So apparently he had breakfast with Lilo and Stitch this morning. Did he?

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah.

[Andy Roddick]

Our daughter would just flip. I'm kind of jealous. That's like saying dinner with LeBron.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah,

[Andy Roddick]

that's pretty fun, I think, if anything. And, Sean, correct me if I'm wrong, but life exists outside of our little sport, and you got to take those moments and live them as much as you can. So producer Mike out today, but we have one Larry Stefanke on the show. And so the way that this show works is we kind of have like, a general outline, and then depending on an interview or the way things go, you manage the timelines. You manage. You know, do we need 20 minutes off the top? Are these subjects that we need to cover this week? And we sometimes shoot the interviews before we actually shoot the top and bottom of the shows. And so we had a plan to kind of do the Larry interview. And then there's a bunch of things from Indian Wells that I want to talk about. You know, is Coco hurt Yala Mania still going. Threats from bettors directly to cell phones, which is like a crazy, sad, terrible story that somehow needs to be fixed. You know, these are all things that we can spend time on and should spend time on and will spend time on. And then you get Larry, who comes in and takes it, gives us an hour and 20 of story gold. And these are episodes where. From where I sit, they're sometimes difficult because Larry could have come on and been like a muted version of himself where he's taking it down 50%, and I would have still found it hilarious because he uses his little terminologies. And I look back on it with like. Like, fondness and nostalgia and memories. Sean, you don't know Larry from a ham sandwich. First time I've met him. Yeah. I sent you the article. They put. What was the. The publication, palmspringslife.com okay, so we're going to put that article in the show notes. It's basically about his run in 85 and at the. You know, what is now Indian Wells, from the touring pro at the club to winning the tournament. Crazy story on its own. So we get into that. Then he goes on to coach four former world number ones. McEnroe, Rios, Gonzalez, Kafelnikov, Henman, me. The list goes on and on and on for 20 years. He's one of the top coaches on earth, and people kind of view him as. He's very stoic during matches, doesn't say much, doesn't do much. Isn't super emotional. And then Sean, he could not be more opposite off of. I mean, you said it perfectly. He's a fire hose. Yeah. Of information, stories, storytelling and details of certain stories. And, you know, he tells me stories back. I'm like, that's definitely not the way it happened, but it was fricking hilarious. But, like, is a straight shooter. Like, I've always gotten along with Larry, but I can imagine there is probably friction caused at some point with some players which he addresses in the interviews. He did this thing in Palm Springs life. I did the interview for it because I'll say yes to him for whatever he wants forever. But he's like. One of the quotes is like, Anthony used to look at me and ask if I am I one of the top 300 baseliners in the world? And he goes, dude, you're not one of the top 600 baseliners in the world. And I always find that stuff funny. But I don't know, people say they want honesty all the time and sometimes they don't, you know, so. But like for you hearing Larry for the first time, like, it's wild, it's sprawling, it's crazy. There's details, it's players from, you know, however, 50 years of tennis, like, net, net. What was your reaction to hearing the interview that our audience is about to hear? I. My immediate. I mean, we just stopped recording like five minutes ago and I feel like one. My face hurts from laughing so much.

[Larry Stefanki]

But it's gonna be an interview.

[Andy Roddick]

I go back and listen to a ton because there's. He talks so much about coaching and the sport. I mean, I think it transcends even tennis just being an elite athlete. But God, he's so funny. He's such a good storyteller. Yeah. This is endlessly entertaining. Yeah. None of it is. I'll put it this way. I'll say something funny, but most of the time I know it's funny. If I get one right or if I give a smart ass answer, I know it. This is just who Larry is. It's not a quip. It's not like a response that someone's proud that they thought of. It's not as if he's doing a funny monologue. This is just from the hip. We're going to fire it and we're going to see where it goes. Yeah. It's who he is. Oh, it's so good. So we are going to get to all things Indian Wells in the recap show. Larry is from Indian Wells. He gives a lot of good context about the way that it plays, the heat, the wind, the way the ball travels. And this is from someone who called that area home and trained there for two decades. So there will be some Indian Wells centric insight in this. But, man, talk about, like, his view on the different personalities, his view on what people do well, his view on the current state of tennis and what frustrates him, which there's, you know, there's a lot a decent amount of. But I'm telling you, if you. If you could pay 100 bucks and watch tennis for six hours with someone, I think he would be in your top five draft picks for sure. And because we do this little Internet show, you don't have to pay the 100 bucks. You can just sit back and listen to one of my great friends, coach to the stars, former Indian Wells champion from 140 in the world. Like the. We all say, like, no one's ever. No one's ever done anything like Vachero. No, Larry did. He didn't go through qualities because he got a wild card because he worked for the club where it was played. Absurd. Anyways, on the other side, interview conversation, I don't know. I'm still confused. I never know what it is, but I know this. I love Larry Stefan. I think you will love hearing from him, too. We'll be right back with served. All right, everyone, welcome back to served. And we are here with the man, the myth, the legend, one of my favorite people in my life in tennis, one of the true characters in savants in this game, the old Larry Stefankis in the house. What's up, Larry?

[Larry Stefanki]

Hey, Andrew. How you doing?

[Andy Roddick]

Andrew.

[Larry Stefanki]

Andrew.

[Andy Roddick]

That's it.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's when he knows I'm serious.

[Andy Roddick]

Yeah, he. Him and my mother are the people that call me Andrew when I. When I've. When I've. I've misbehave. Larry, what's. What's going on? Like, what is. What is what. What's day to day right now?

[Larry Stefanki]

Well, day to day, I have my dog, Boomer, and we go do a lot of running, and I work with a couple juniors here in San Diego. I'm in San Diego at the moment. I'm returned from La Quinta, where I spent about three or four days watching a little tennis at the Indian Wells event.

[Andy Roddick]

How. How was that? A little different than when you won in 85.

[Larry Stefanki]

Just a bit. It's. It's a big scene now. A carnival, a. A lot of sideshows, I'll put it that way. And. But it was fun. It was really, really crowded. I know that's what the. The gig is for Indian Wells and the tennis nowadays, it's like a festival. And. But three days for me is my limit. It's kind of like fish. Okay, three days. And after that, it starts to, you know, what smell.

[Andy Roddick]

I mean, it's got to be pretty good, because I'm sitting in my car yesterday, about to head into my son's baseball practice and kind of roll some grounders, and I get a text from Larry, and it's. He goes, dude, you know, with the time change, you know, is there any way. Yeah, with that time change, is there any way that we can do it at night? I'm like, you can't roll out of bed at 7:45 these days, Larry. I mean, like, you did. You could just go full lazy. What. What's going on?

[Larry Stefanki]

No, no, no. It was dark in California. I was thinking, okay, I got up at 6:15. At 7:15, I said, I got to get, you know, you know, spruced up a little bit, and. And I'm thinking, okay, maybe another hour to get things rolling. But today, you know, I managed to get a good night's sleep, and we're. We're the balls rolling now, so it's, It's, It's. It's good. But, no, I get up early and try to get the body going a bit.

[Andy Roddick]

There's. There's an article out about Larry. And for those who don't know, I think Larry, and correct me if I'm wrong here, and if this is just. Just what I think, but I think generally in the tennis community, you're most known for what you've done in coaching, right? Your resume is like, absolutely. It's like, really unique, right? You've worked with. And this is what attracted me to you in the first place, where we didn't really know each other past high and by before, I kind of asked you to come work with me. But one of the attractive things was not only that you had worked with a bunch of good players, right? But you had worked with a million different personalities. Like, there's not a lot of common ground, I would guess, with playing styles and or demeanor between Marcelo rios, Tim Henman, McEnroe, Gonzalez, myself. Not exactly. Like a cough, too.

[Larry Stefanki]

The Russian, Come on.

[Andy Roddick]

He's a psycho, too. Like you. Did you like the old. I mean, in Henman, like, I know he's got the British gentleman thing, but he's got. He's got a little. He's got a little more, you know, he'll tell some jokes and there's a little more under the hood than I think he presents up front.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's right.

[Andy Roddick]

Were you attracted to different personalities or was just, was this just kind of what came at certain times?

[Larry Stefanki]

Well, for me, you know, tennis is such an international game and these are all coming from all these different cultures. You got the Russian, South American, English American. And I really, you know, I started, you know, with Johnny Mac, the biggest psycho of them all. And you know, so. And we've been friends since I think he was 14, I was 16 when we first met, before he made his first nickel. So we go back a long way. So that's how that kind of came about after coaching. Coaching Tommy Ho. But I just coach tennis players. People say, why don't you coach Americans? I said, no, no, I don't coach countries or flags. I just coach players and, and see where they kind of are coming, you know, you're coming from and what they want to attain in this game. And I was kind of attracted to playing at the, and coaching at the highest level. And, you know, and so that, that was kind of my attraction was just, you know, what, what the person was kind of thrice thriving for in their career, their goals and where they, where they're coming from. And it didn't matter where they were, whether they were from country flag wise.

[Andy Roddick]

But, but I love the point you made in the story, which was that your travels as a player to all these far flung places helped you appreciate players from all over the world.

[Larry Stefanki]

Absolutely. I mean, I went everywhere, okay? And I was in search of obviously getting my ranking up so I could play big time tennis. And then as I got older, I said, okay, I'm done with this challenger garbage, okay? Either I'm going to play real tennis, big boy tennis, or I'm out of this game and I'm not going to play doubles because doubles for me, that was very easy. In fact, I probably was ranked higher in doubles than I was in singles. You know, when I look at it in, you know, in the, in the rearview mirror, so to speak, of my career, but I wanted to play big boys. I wanted to push myself, okay? And that, that was my whole gig. I wanted to be able to play in the slams and, and do something slammed, okay, it didn't really work out that well. And like Andy says, I was much more successful in the coaching because I drive hard and that usually turns people off. Andy was one of the few guys that really, you know, relished that. And that's why we got along so well. And he's very honest, very, you know, straightforward, and so am I. And, and my experience goes, what the great ones had done before him and how they went about it, you know, to get to that spot. And Andy, you know, when I jumped on with Andy, he had already become one in the world and won the US Open, and he already had a resume. And then he got caught in the vortex of, you know, four guys that, you know in the game that were very pretty special, maybe five, you know, if you throw Warwick in there, you know, so, you know, it's. It was, you know, so that. And that's how it kind of came about. And like Andy says, I didn't. I didn't know Andy. And I was like, when I coached Fernando go, I might have said hi to him a few times in the locker room. I congratulated him one time when he beat Henman at the Open first round. And, you know, but that's. That was about it when we first started.

[Andy Roddick]

I think a lot of coaches play a certain way, and therefore they're attracted to players that play a similar way. And there's a real value add there. Right. Like, you look at someone who is an expert at coming, like Paul Anacone is, Is a. Is a great coach, and he's largely played people with skill sets that he could relate to as a player, and then takes that and applies it to a coach and has been very effective being able to do that. You kind of have gone the other way with, like, I don't know, you, you, you. You take what the player does well and you try to break it down to, like, you almost strip it back and then try to add layering. But I also am just obsessed with. I read this article and I obviously know your history. We, you know, spent 250 nights a year together for, you know, close to five years. You know, so I know all this. And we've. We've had the banter back and forth where, you know, you come in as a wild card, maybe ranked outside the top 100, and win Indian Wells, and it's the only North American tournament that I never won. And so you have. You kind of like to hold that over my head, but can you walk us through and just kind of level set and explain for people who don't understand you winning Indian Wells, what all had to happen for that result to be real in the context of you being from there and, and, and, and Kelly's dad having a place there and you spending time there. You were the club pro at La Quinta. And then you won the Masters Series at La Quinta. Like, it's insane.

[Larry Stefanki]

Well, I'm gonna put it in perspective. I wasn't the teaching pro at the club.

[Andy Roddick]

The touring pro, whatever. They were paying you somehow.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, they're paying me somehow. And that was a favor from Ernie Vossler, from my father in law. Okay. And he. Because JB John was a touring pro for golf, he turned pro and played the Seniors tour. And so Ernie goes, oh, I'll let. I'll let Larry with Charlie Passarell be the touring pro at tennis. I'm thinking, oh, my God, this is great. I'm ranked 140, 130, and now I get to be a touring approach. That's why I moved down there is to my. For my career. Higueras was part of the, you know, the equation with Tommy Tucker and Passerelle. They said, we need somebody, we need a body. And they knew my engine ran strong. I was very inexperienced.

[Andy Roddick]

A body for practice?

[Larry Stefanki]

Yes.

[Andy Roddick]

For the guys that were ranked ahead

[Larry Stefanki]

of you, he was ranked 7. You're the sparring partner. I was. And. But I went down there because I said, geez, I can practice every flipping day with a top 10 player. And I knew Higgy. I was a junior Davis cup player in college. We played in North Conway, New Hampshire. We used to practice. He would take these young guys and run him into the ground. And he was a Spanish dude, came from nothing. And, you know, I said, okay, I know this guy, he grinds like a mother. And I needed that. I. In my game, I needed to get consistent. I needed to not miss. And it kind of relates to what you were talking about in the coaching aspect of why focus on things you do well. Let's shore up the deficiencies, okay? That's how I coach. And when someone can't, you know, serve, then we're working. Okay? If you have a great forehand and a great backhand and a great return, but, you know, your serve is like, you know, dementia. Okay, okay. We. You got a lot of work to do because you're. You're going to be swimming upstream. Because this game is kind of based on the serve. So, you know, all those. What you're talking about, whether or not be Fernando Gonzalez, I mean, he couldn't hit in a row. He get twisted like a pretzel. And I said, dude, how'd you get to 20 in the world? Because, you know, and Henman would chop him on clay and because I was coaching him before Fernando and, you know, he says, larry, I'm so tired. I'm 25 years old. I've been doing this for 15, eight years, running around, hitting forehands and I'm sick of it. I don't, I don't think my legs can take much more of it. I said, listen, dude, there's never been a one sided player to reach the top, meaning running around hitting balls every time. And he was the best I've ever seen in my opinion. Top five all time. Four Fernando. And we'd go out of the practice court, he said, oh, Larry, what are you gonna do today? What do you think? Fernando F, what do you think? He goes, oh, not more backhands, please. Can I hit some foreheads? No, he couldn't hit a backhand crossfit. How do you play men's tennis and you can't hit a backhand cross guard, Fernando, if you can't hit a put two balls in a row. I mean, you're one of those 50 error guys, okay? And then he shorted up and every single day it didn't click in for eight months. Andy. It was like one of those things. But we didn't work on his forehand. Can you feed me some forehands? Okay? And after about three months I started giving him a few forehands, okay? Just to make him happy. Kind of like your serve.

[Andy Roddick]

We love Fernando Gonzalez stories and we love Kafelnikov stories, but can we get

[Larry Stefanki]

to the guy in the black hat?

[Andy Roddick]

Literally give us erotic stories? No.

[Larry Stefanki]

Okay, you want erotic story? Okay. First day I go free. McKelly's laughing in the background. First day, first day I go. I think it was the, is it the west side Tennis club?

[Andy Roddick]

Westwood.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, Westwood. And so he got married, okay. And I didn't know them. He picked me up at the airport, luckily brought Brooklyn, okay. And I didn't even know the guy. We just, you know, jump in his suv, we go home into his house, a beautiful home, right on the water. And you know, he was, we're gonna get started tomorrow morning. So we go down tomorrow, tomorrow morning and we're at the club and we have Samdev Devarman and we have some other, some other, a South African guy or something we're hitting. He goes, hey, Andy, ever do two on ones? Because I mean, you know, we talk about it through the evening, about what we're going to do and how I go about things. I'm pretty, you know, blue collar. I have certain things that we do every single day. And you're going to work like five hours a Day two and a half. Two and a half. And the first day I tell myself, very first day, don't know the guy. I'm not. I'm gonna shut my mouth, okay? That's hard for me to do, okay? So he's sitting there. Let's just hit some cross courts. And so we're hitting. So I'm standing behind him, and we go about an hour. And I lasted an hour and 15, okay? And I. If I. Then I couldn't take it anymore. I said. I said. I said to him, I said, andy, Andy, Andy, Andy. What are you doing over there on your backhand? He goes, what do you mean? What do you mean? I said, I'm hitting cross court. I said. I said, andy, listen, listen. What are you thinking about with that footwork and your preparation on your backhand? He goes, larry, Larry, Larry, Larry, Larry. I see ball, hit ball. And I said, are we a caveman? I said, wait, see, ball, hit ball. I said. I said, now I'm starting to get a little worked up, okay? And then I said, did you ever work anything about your footwork, getting your racket back, getting your posture so you're not leaning over your feet, anything like that? He goes, no, Larry, Larry, Larry, you're starting to talk about. About, you know, changing my stroke production and this and that. And you better know what the you're talking about, because I've been doing this for a long time.

[Andy Roddick]

I feel like this story's getting gotten better with age.

[Larry Stefanki]

No, no. He looks at me and goes. He goes, he. And he gives me the eye, okay? You know how his eyes are when he gets a little worked up? And I said, listen, dude, let me tell you right now. I've coached a lot of great backhands in my day, okay, over the time. And I know one thing that ain't gonna work for best of five, seven rounds, okay? And we're playing about the. With the boys. I said that. And he goes. He goes, I. And he points his finger. You better know what the. You're talking about. I said, I know that's. I know one thing that doesn't work. And if you just make those changes and we're going to work towards that on that left side and the return, good things will happen for you because we didn't focus on and. And obviously his fitness, okay? And then, you know, we actually. That evening before that first day on the court, I said to him, okay, how much you weigh, dude? How much you weighed?

[Andy Roddick]

No, no, no, no, no. I'm gonna correct this part. So I called Larry. I called Larry when I was like, okay, who's. I'm like. I was like, okay. I'd gone. And there's, like, a list, and no one.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, there's a list.

[Andy Roddick]

There was a. Like, a list of coaches, and it's like, one.

[Larry Stefanki]

I'm like, yeah, fuck.

[Andy Roddick]

I don't. I don't know about this. And I was just intrigued by Larry's process. I didn't know him. Yeah, you know, you knew the rep, and you knew, like, it's like, you'd hear people. It's like, well, what's. What's the downside? They're like, oh, he makes you work real hard. I'm like, that's a fucking neg. I don't. I don't understand that. So anyways, I get on the phone with him. He goes. He goes, all right, dude, I'll tell you. I'll take the job, but first thing you got to do, you got to lose £15. You got to move in this game now.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's right.

[Andy Roddick]

So he didn't come to Austin. I spent a month with Lance Hooten in Austin.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's right.

[Andy Roddick]

Eating nuts and fruit or something.

[Larry Stefanki]

Grass.

[Andy Roddick]

Grass. Like, it's what food. I was eating what food eats. And. Yeah, so I finally called him. I was like, listen, I'm down 12. He goes, okay, I'll come to Austin then. That's where that started. It wasn't. I wasn't quite a rhinoceros when our first day. I was just less of one.

[Larry Stefanki]

But. But I'm gonna throw a little caveat in there. He says to me, oh, I just won Cincinnati. I said, okay, you're. You're 215.

[Andy Roddick]

I didn't win Cincinnati for two years.

[Larry Stefanki]

But, yeah, yeah, he says. He says, I said, I could give a rat's ass about Cincinnati. We're talking about winning a slam. That's all I know, okay? And I kind of go from the backyard back history. Gonzalez was 6 4. Wait a buck 90, 92. Okay? So you need to be a stallion. And I kept it. But you know the beautiful thing about this? Without Brooklyn Decker, that would have never happened, okay? Because this guy was. This guy was an Applebee's guy, okay? He would get chilies and Applebee's. He was going in there and eating so much food. I'm thinking, this guy's a Mid America, you know, slopping down the food, and I'm thinking, dude, you're gonna be like a Ferrari, okay? I don't know if you're. You need to put ethanol, you know, not this garbage you're sticking. You work like a. A. A rhino, okay? And then. And you're just putting in this garbage, and that's not fuel, okay? And so he totally transformed his whole body. And then, you know, after. After a while, okay, he did say, larry, I need to eat a little more. I said, I allowed him to, you know, go forward, but we had some incidents where, you know, we got into Singapore, and he goes, oh, I'm so hungry.

[Andy Roddick]

No, no, no. It wasn't Singapore. You're getting the details.

[Larry Stefanki]

It was.

[Andy Roddick]

No, it was. I didn't. I literally never step. My. I've never been in Singapore in my entire life.

[Larry Stefanki]

Like, Facts was a transition from Dubai.

[Andy Roddick]

Singapore, it was. It was Doha. I'd made the final. It was our first event. I had been eating wheatgrass for three months. I lose to Murray in the final, and we go to the airport, and it's in Doha, and we go to the airport, and there's no food anywhere. I just played a match. I'm starving, right? For real. I remember Brooke and I were talking about this last night. We were, like, crying, laughing, like, Larry is literally Brooklyn's favorite person on Earth. It's like they're, like, kindred spirits in some way, shape or form. But I remember we go to the airport lounge, right? And I'm. I'm starving. I'm like, I just played. We're in Doha. I'm doing all this stuff. I've been, like, gritting my teeth, like, okay, if you're gonna, like, hire someone, then you listen to them and you do the shit, even if you don't want to. And so we get there, and the only thing they have left for food is this Otis Spunkmeyer muffin.

[Larry Stefanki]

This. It wasn't Otis Spunkmeyer.

[Andy Roddick]

It was plastic wrapping, processed, gross thing. And I didn't even think. I'm like. And I grab it, and I'm like,

[Larry Stefanki]

oh, it's in plastic.

[Andy Roddick]

All Larry hears, it's like he uses the force like he's Yoda, and he hears a crinkle of, like, a rapper. It's like. He goes. He goes, dude. He goes. He didn't. He didn't say. And this was what Larry did really well. He didn't say, don't eat that shit. He goes. He goes. He goes. So you just gonna. You're just gonna eat that starch ball right now? What? I said, you're Applebee's boy, though? Yeah.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, he's an Applebee boy.

[Andy Roddick]

All way back. I Was, like, in there, in that. So I was like, I would eat a blooming onion right now if it was in front of me, I'll tell you that much right now. But it wasn't. So. It was. It was. It was. That was the starch ball. But, yeah, I had a starch ball story. Yeah, that was it. It was. It was. It was interesting. Fuck. I'm, like, all rattled. I'm having PTSD from, like, it's my starch ball. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built on. With the ServiceNow AI platform, your AI data and workflows all work together, connecting every corner of your business. To see how you can put AI to work for people, visit ServiceNow.com AI agents. TaxAct understands you haven't memorized the tax code. That's why TaxAct has live experts to help.

[Larry Stefanki]

TaxAct can even do it for you if you prefer.

[Andy Roddick]

It's the easiest way to know you're doing it right.

[Larry Stefanki]

Well, other than going back to college

[Andy Roddick]

and obtaining a bachelor's degree in accounting

[Larry Stefanki]

with a minor in finance, then interning

[Andy Roddick]

somewhere and becoming fluent in all tax forms, but that might be hard to accomplish before tax day. So maybe just stick with Tax Act, Tax act, let's get them over with. How do you balance this relationship, which seems to be so weird in tennis, where you're the coach, you're the authority figure, you're calling him Applebee's boy, You're setting the standard, and you're also an employee. He hired you. It's a very strange dynamic. How did you handle that in general?

[Larry Stefanki]

Well, I mean, it takes. That's why it takes me a long time to commit to somebody, okay? I'm not a Lego piece. I'm not a guy that say, hey, I want you to come in here, talk a few words, boom, and you're good, okay? And you're going to be improved immediately. It's always a work in progress. It's always pushing to get a little bit. If you're not number one, dude, you got some work to do, okay? That's just basically how it works. And I don't care how much money you have in the bank. So it takes a long time for me, you know, to commit to somebody. Like, I didn't know Andy at all. But I remember Kenny Myerson calling me up. You're on the list. You're number. You're in the top five on the list. I said, hey, Kenny, Kenny, lose my fucking number. I have a job. I said. I said, tell me when I am the list. And I hung up.

[Andy Roddick]

And Kenny, go, when I am the list.

[Larry Stefanki]

When I am. I did exactly. I hung up. I said, I coach one of your other clients, stop calling me. I said, when I'm the list, give me a call, because that would interest me, okay? But Kenny. Kenny. Kenny started laughing and hung up. And Kenny goes, oh, Larry, I'm the elder statesman. I turned pro in 79. You came in 1980 with Donald Bell. Don't give me this. On the other states. And then he started laughing. You know the dates. I said, yeah, I know the dates, so shut up, okay? And call me when you're serious, okay? And I don't want to know about the other guys, okay? The other four that you have on that list, I don't care, you know, so that. You know, that kind of a thing. So when Andy kind of jumped on board, I was nervous. I mean, I didn't know, really, but I knew, you know, he was very, very competitive. He didn't like to lose. He was like Johnny Mac mentality of Larry. Okay? He. Early on, he says to me, you're gonna probably have an ulcer because I'm gonna be down a set in a break, and we're gonna get in this war, and I'm gonna grease this guy out in the second set, and then he's gonna get tired, and I'm gonna get him in the third. And it. Okay, John. It happened so many times. It was like I'd sit back there, and I knew the guy. He would just fight, scrape, scrap, you know, and there's something to that about tennis that is really appealing to me. And sometimes you got to win during the dirty work. I think it happens. It all transpires in the practice sessions when you don't make mistakes. And so when you talk about. I'm an employee, I am, but I'm a truth teller, okay? And I have been relieved of duty, and I've walked away from duty like a Feldnikov. I left on my own Henman. We kind of. It didn't work out too well near the end, and after three years, I never felt like I worried about being relieved of duty if we're not heading in the right direction. John, I. I said, here, I'm done. I'm done with this, because I can. I can work with a lot of different people, but it took. Takes me a long time to commit to somebody. And. And like Andy says, sometimes the hard work scares people, but you're not. This game is such an individual game that you've got to put it in the hard mile. If you're not willing to put in the hard mile, nothing's going to change. Because a few words from me, okay? It'll give you a little pump up. Yeah, you're great. You know, let's go, let's go. You know, that's fine and dandy. Okay. Everyone needs that. But you know, it's all transpires in the practice sessions and it has to be. This game is repetitive game. It's a, it's a continuous continuity game. It has to be the same, the same, the same. And people go, what are we going to do today? Can we change it up a little bit? No, there's no change ups. No, we keep doing the same thing over until you can hit 50 backhand, cross guards or whatever it is and change directions. Controlling the ball flight is what I'm really into. And if you. And it has a diff, you know, the difference of risk, reward. Andy and I talk about it all the time. Larry, this is going to be a grind point. And he'd say that in the middle of a match. I said, you got that right. Okay, this guy's got to hit a winner on this point, okay? If it's four, three in the third, 1530, and I said, I don't care if he hits a winner. You make this guy hit a winner on this point, you get sphincteritis. I mean, people get nervous. You're not playing a machine, okay. And you get errors, okay? So you do these things. And as a coach, that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for guys that are not scared to like, really put it on the line and not say, oh, I'm going to go for the flashy winner up the line because I'm stretched out a little bit. I said, what kind of shot was that? You had no shot there, okay? And, and you pointed out Rios was a perfect example, okay? I mean, you, you coach certain individuals. Most talented guy besides Johnny Mack I ever coached in my life. He came out of the box with a gift, but his brain worked like monfis, okay? He's, he's a creative arts, okay. He's like a juggler. Okay, I'm gonna. Sorry, here's a shot. I'm a drop shot off the top of the tape for all deuce. You know, you're kind of going, okay, dude, after eight months of doing that shot, you have no shot. You got no shot. And his dad said, why is he stuck at 20? I said, for eight months? I said, he's stuck at 20 because he's a circus act. Okay. He doesn't play the stock shot at the biggest moments, and he has every shot in the book. He's got to get rid of 18 of the 20 shots rolling around.

[Andy Roddick]

Do you think. Do you think there's, like. Because I'm obsessed with the kind of premise, and that's why I think people like Roger and Alcaraz are. Are so fascinating to me because they have every shot, but yet they still know how to manage those options.

[Larry Stefanki]

Right.

[Andy Roddick]

Like, it's. It's not like me. I, Like, I was limited with what I could do, especially when we got together. Like, the part that, like, we never talk about is I had half a forehand when Larry and I got together, because that's right, my shoulder, I couldn't hit a flat for anymore. Yeah. It was done. So, like. But so we were limited.

[Larry Stefanki]

He masqueraded. He masqueraded like it was fine, but we all knew that it was gone.

[Andy Roddick]

Yeah, I mean, it was gone. It was. I mean, I wouldn't get to. I wasn't going to start a marketing campaign around it, but, like, but, like, it was. But so what we had to do was, you know, the work was hard because I had to, like, learn the footwork and learn the pacing, and I had to learn all of these things. But it wasn't as if I went into a match and pass serve. It's like, oh, I. You know What? I have 17 options on how I'm going to do this. Like, it's like, okay, let's make it as difficult as possible and let's, you know, let's leverage your. Your strong parts. But Rios is interesting because he probably had the options of an Alcaraz or a Federer, but he wasn't able to have the discipline to put them into play. Not only for weeks upon end, but then you look at the superheroes of our sport. They're able to do it for 15 or 20 years at a time. And so talk about the discipline with, you know, you saw it with trying and you got Rios to number one, and for that you got fired. Yeah, but.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, but the other direction.

[Andy Roddick]

Yeah, but talk about kind of trying to. I want to try to use the right word word. But like, manage talent and manage options and kind of keep those talents in a certain lane in, like, Alcaraz and Fed. Make that look easy when it's really not that interplay between talent options and. And. And what you should do.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's right. I mean, when you get someone as gifted as those three individuals, you know, the Feder Alcaraz, the Rios's Max Mac just had. Had a gear. I mean, of. Of competitiveness like Andy, but the gifts of an artist. Okay? And, you know, he had one grip, and he turned it down and he hit it this way, and then he had the same grip and shoveled it this way. And never miss balls, okay? And. And hit the ball in the middle every time. He said, larry, I hit it in the middle every single time. I said, I don't know what you're talking about. These other quadrants, I don't hit it up there. I hit it in the middle. And I said, oh, jeez. Okay, now we're talking a whole day that was a little bit like Roger Alcaraz. I mean, the thing is about those three individuals that even. Look, Roger. I feel like, Roger, you have to let them have structure but still be free to be able to play that free type of a game without restraining their creativeness.

[Andy Roddick]

That sound. That sounds easy when you say it, but that's a. I know. That's a brutal line.

[Larry Stefanki]

Very difficult. Yeah, it's. No, it's very, very difficult. I remember when Roger. Roger, you know, he was. Didn't win a tournament for, like, a year. He was with Anacone, okay? And that was when the big four hands, that was, okay. The Roddicks, the Gonzalez Zabaletta, Kanye Sampers are still around. Everyone's going for big foreign. So Roger says, okay, I'm gonna play. I'm gonna have the biggest foreign in the game. I'm thinking, what's he doing? What's he doing? This guy. This guy plays that defense better than any guy that maybe ever played.

[Andy Roddick]

Correct?

[Larry Stefanki]

And he's trying to take every first or second ball and going for winners on the forehand, because Gonzo's forehand was. Was. He was out forehand, okay? And so it would piss him off. So it's a little bit of like, he got pissed off with his ego, I think, and said, okay, I'm gonna have the biggest forehand, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna show you guys. And he. He went. He went. It didn't base for his talents because Roger was a phenomenal server. He's the most underrated server in the game of all time.

[Andy Roddick]

I think there's. We talked about this on. We had, like, our best servers of all time list. And I think there's. There's people that just serve really well, like Isner and Karlovich, and they're seven feet tall, but there's also, like, we went through the. The. Basically, the premise where it's like, people who pitch a good ball game, right? You could give me Rogers physicality on a serve, and I wouldn't be nearly as effective, because he knows how to set up the other arsenal. He's a. He's Greg Maddox, right? He. He's. He's not Randy Johnson. He's Greg Maddox.

[Larry Stefanki]

And I agree with you, 100. Nastasi was the same way. You don't remember him before your time, but, no, he was a phenomenal. He got the one in the world. He. He was a phenomenal server, and he played real free. I call it Denny's flapjack. Like Roger, he could flip balls around and hit corners and make it look like, what the. What's going on here? You know? And Rios could do the same. Same thing he got. I mean, Rios would start laughing at people from. He'd be 30ft behind the baseline and hit short box three feet from the net. I said, it's the luckiest shot I've ever seen. And Monte Carlo, he did this. These Spanish guys suck, okay? Courageous sucks. Moya sucks. He beat these guys 2 and 2, 2 and 1. I'm going. I'm going. Are you serious? And he would. He would make these acute angles that were just. I said, I don't even see that angle. Okay? So they're born with these gifts. But like you said, you don't want to strangle the talent out of these guys so that they can play free, you know? And even Mac, you know, same thing. He saw the court differently. He played so much differently. I like guys, though, that take the ball early, that see it before it almost gets there. Mac used to say, oh, I see. He only has two options. If I go there, he only has two options, max.

[Andy Roddick]

A joke. So it's. It's funny because we. We had this best back ends list also. And my whole thing is, like, you know, Fernando could, like, the example I use was, like, Gonzalez hits it harder than anyone, maybe outside of del Potro, but he doesn't return like everyone else on the forehand side. And he doesn't, you know, he doesn't play defense off the forehand side. So. So, like, it's a complete shot. And, like, the fact that Max backhand. And I want you to expand on this, never gets put on, like, the greatest backhands of all time list is fucking insane. He has the ability to basically suck your time away because of his positioning. Float a ball and it lands six inches softly. And you feel like you're set and then all of a sudden you hit a pass and he's hitting a drop volley and you're 20ft from it. But it's not as if he punched you in the mouth. It's like he threw a three shot combo before you knew the first one was thrown. Like, his backhand has to be one of the best of all time.

[Larry Stefanki]

I agree. 1984, 1985, though. I mean, dude, he took it right off the bounce.

[Andy Roddick]

It's a joke.

[Larry Stefanki]

I mean, okay, choked against no. And he took it and it was, it was so technically sound, people. Oh, no one can do that. I said, no, no, no, no. It was the most efficient redirect shot off the backhand side maybe ever. Because that's what we're talking about. Taking speed that's going 110 miles an hour, 100, 103 miles an hour, and redirecting it short angle, cross court. Rios could do that. He could take a hardball and redirect with a softball or take a slow, slow ball and whack at 100 miles an hour. Mac didn't really have that ability. But when you talk about redirecting the backhand, especially off the return of surf and coming to net, and that's what he used to say. I knew what this guy had, what his options were. And so in his mind he was always, like you said, a shot ahead. It was like a chess game. He would, he, like, he would. He knew two moves. If I make this move, I, I know that he has these other two options and I'm covering him and I'm going to give him. And that's why we talk about risk, reward and where to go on the court. That takes a lot of years, but that was kind of innate for Mac. And he killed you not with speed, but with location. He, like, he was. Even his serve, his serve wasn't hard. He, he just would go this way, that way. And body, he didn't like the body.

[Andy Roddick]

Like, I mean, I only play Mack when he's, I started playing all these like, has been events and even now you can't tell where he's going on a serve until the last second. Like, he, he gets you into the same position and he either goes this way or, or he's able to shove it off. But you, you can't see it still.

[Larry Stefanki]

No.

[Andy Roddick]

You still can't see it.

[Larry Stefanki]

No. It. And he's so close to the target. Okay. Started doing that right before he got the semis of Wimbledon. You know, when he was still a junior and that kind of. Yeah. And so you know what he could do with ball control. And I'm a big believer in ball control, okay. It's just not slam, slam, slam, slam, you know. You know, his M.O. would say World War Three every shot, okay? And it's like we talk about this in these clinics that we do with Roy Emerson. He said, I can't watch it, Larry. It's just, it's just unwatchable. Because no one feathers the ball anymore. Alcaraz does.

[Andy Roddick]

I don't. I actually. So I did the, a long form interview with Rafa last year, right. And we kind of went through the fed of things and the Novak of things and the, the thing he said. And it was great because he had retired. So this was kind of like his first interview where like I find when people retire, there's no fucks given anymore. And so they're not, they're not giving away their secrets. And it's way better. And he did. So one thing he said, he goes, Novak, he goes, ball control, he goes. So you say, nobody can do that anymore. I think Novak might be the best of all time at taking pace, redirecting, injecting pace into the backhand, taking pace off of it, but still having that kind of floaty backhand that lands through the middle that you can't really do much with. Novak, I think he took a lot

[Larry Stefanki]

of what you're on the baseline.

[Andy Roddick]

Totally. I think he took a lot of that old school thing that you're talking about with max ability to float it and put you in positions and kind of has that new school twist where I'm also 6 foot 3, can inject power and can get in and out of the corners and move like a modern day tennis player. I actually think Novak, his biggest differentiator, is switching directions and ball control.

[Larry Stefanki]

I agree, I agree. And with not much spin.

[Andy Roddick]

Yeah, it comes in kind of sideways.

[Larry Stefanki]

It's 8 inches from the baseline. And like you try to help, like young players, juniors, you're saying depth is the key to everything. Okay. And do you know that if you feather a ball deep, it gives you a chance to recover into the center of the court. It gives you time to work back into the point because no one comes to net. Why do you. Because they hit it hard. You hit it harder. You hit it hard. You hit it harder. Okay. What's that all about? No, to redirect and take speed off. That's why Mac was so gifted. That's why, you know, and you know, I just like that, you know, and Roger was a king of that. And like Novak, same thing. I mean, and he, he didn't wound you with winners.

[Andy Roddick]

I think as the game has progressed, though, you now need, you now need the ability. And we're seeing this with, with, with Alcaraz, I think, I think he's taken this thing where it's like, I have this ability to float the ball when I need to. I can deflate pressure to buy myself time. But then I think now in tennis in 2026, you also have to have the ability to rip someone's face off, right? Like, so now you kind of have the, you have to have the best of both worlds where, you know, you need that ball control with Mac, but then you also need the ability to inject pace like, like Andre. And I think the guys who have combined those two things, because people talk, people talk about Alcaraz and it's like, oh, well, he, he just flashing, he rips the ball. I'm like, no. I go, no, no, no. Like he, he. The threat of him being able to do that is what makes the other stuff so good and vice versa, right? His drop shot is the thing that sets up the knockout punch. Right? Those things working in tandem I think is kind of the new age of tennis. The guys that can take the stuff that worked for McEnroe and then also add in the best practices of an Andre type player. No, keep going. Because, I mean, I hear redirect and I hear feathering, and I'm thinking, there's a kid from Southern California who's pretty good at that. I'm curious, what else? You saw Modern Day Tennis 2020, when you spend three days in Indian Wells, what else are you seeing about tennis today that were not.

[Larry Stefanki]

They need to come to Netmore. I mean, we talk about the whole package with Alcaraz. These kids, I don't know what this rallying crap is all about, okay? They just rally, rally, rally. Okay? It's like, okay, like sometimes I would watch Andy's matches and I'd say, I'm not going to watch anything. The guy's the best server, you know, in the game, right? About. But whatever, I, I'm going to see opportunities lost, okay? Short balls in the service line. You're whack at 5,000 miles an hour in the corner and you're picking your nose in no man's land, okay? And you're thinking, okay, what are you doing? A lot of the guys at the top, okay, I have a hard time watching because I'm Thinking, wow, they have a lot of work to do, you know? And, you know, Alcaraz at least closes space. And I love guys that can close space. And I'm not kidding. That guy is Borg speed, okay? So. And that's, for me, I've watched. I mean, I played Borg in 81 at the Open. I mean, I. I know fast, okay? This guy's on the same level without the mental. I think the one thing about Carlos is. Is the mental discipline of playing every point like it matters, okay? And he. He hasn't really. I think right now, if he had a little bit more discipline mentally, he would be beating these guys 2 and 2, 3 and 2. Because he returns well. You know, his forehand, he gets a little caught, like Fernando on the return. I don't think his returns. In the talking point of the Capel Nikov now, Banyan, Agassi, Connors, he's. He's not. He has a lot of. He doesn't know if he should send back 30ft. And I don't like that either. These 35ft behind the baseline. I mean, we keep talking, you know, about Andy. I like. I like bringing Andy into it because, you know, key Biscayne semifinals. He plays a set. It's 58 minutes long with Nadal, okay? And he says to me, larry, I'm up there. I'm about 25ft.

[Andy Roddick]

Is that the way I said it? Exactly like that? Yeah.

[Larry Stefanki]

He walked up underneath. He goes, larry, I just played the best set of my life, and, you know, I can't play any better off the ground. And I said, what's that telling you? Rocket scientists get the net, okay? And he says. He goes, Nate Doll's playing 35ft behind the baseline. He's against the flipping Lipton sign, okay, on the thing. And he says to me, he says, both balls? I said, yes, both balls. Okay?

[Andy Roddick]

Just. Just to be clear, we obviously didn't have that conversation because coaching wasn't allowed then. So we definitely didn't do that. We definitely didn't do that.

[Larry Stefanki]

No, no, we did have that. The only time I ever. Coach. Coach and ask him, this is the only time I'm. The only time I'm in the front row in the baseline. I'm sitting like this, and he knows I'm pissed off. And I say, yeah, rocket scientist. He's going to slow bleed you. It's going to be four and four. You're going to look good, and you're going to lose, okay? And you're going like, oh, my God, I hit the Ball great today. And I lost. Okay, so he changed, literally served and volleyed both balls the next two sets. Nadal was so pissed. But Nadal couldn't make the adjustment. He kept staying back 35ft. And Andy said, larry, I was so close to the neck, I almost didn't know what to do. I mean, I was on top of the net by the time I served him volleyball. And he beat him three and three the next two sets. And I just laughed. But see, that's what top pros do. They make adjustments. And that was before coaching. That's why I think, you know, and that was, I think, the only time that I ever, ever, ever said anything in a match.

[Andy Roddick]

That's actually. That's actually probably right. You didn't. You weren't. You were pretty.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah.

[Andy Roddick]

You weren't. You weren't a chatterbox.

[Larry Stefanki]

I. No, no.

[Andy Roddick]

The only time, actually, the. The only time that you weren't a chatterbox was during the matches.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's right.

[Andy Roddick]

Yeah.

[Larry Stefanki]

And people go, God, you're the calmest guy I've ever seen. You never say a word. You look at it. I said, no, I played.

[Andy Roddick]

And then they watch this podcast.

[Larry Stefanki]

I know. And then they're saying, what? No, no, no, I do. I do these. I do these. No, no, I do these. These clinics. And they say, God, you must be annoying as you must be yelling the whole time during the match. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I. No, no, I. That's why even in college, I didn't like getting amped up. I have too much energy. I need to calm down. Let's grind away. Every point is important. That's why I like being a little more calm without. I know, it's great for the fans, you know, let's go. Every shot. It's like, what do you do? You girl double faulted, you know, what are you doing? You know, and it's like, I've been watching some of the tennis. I'm going, what are they doing? Because they're all getting so worked up and nothing's happening.

[Andy Roddick]

A couple of things. Some. Something I'm curious about because you were. You were really good at meeting the player, where they were at, when information needed to be delivered. Right? So I've talked about this on this show before. I was not someone who was really good at hearing much. Like a half hour after, like the first half hour, like, straight off the court, some coaches and players can sit down straight off the court and have a conversation. I wasn't real great at that. For. For for many reasons. So I want you to kind of explain. And the coaches who are listening to this should absolutely eat this up, because I know that, like, in the limited parts where I'm with players, I know what I need to say. I know what I'm seeing. I know what to tell them to do. I don't think I have a clue on the timing of delivery.

[Larry Stefanki]

Right.

[Andy Roddick]

I just want to say it and get it all out so that we can start fixing it. Talk about, like, the patience in coaching. And I remember before a Wimbledon final, right, it's been a day. You win the semis. We haven't talked about how we're going to play Roger yet, right? And then Larry would go, everything's calm in the kitchen. We're all kind of settling in. It's like there's a movie on. And he'd go, hey, let's go out back for 10 minutes. And I'm. But I'm like, I'm calm and I'm actually ready to hear it. Or we'd be at dinner and everyone's laughing, having a good time. And he'd go, okay, so I need, you know, a couple things about tomorrow. So talk about how you manage. And was this a natural instinct of yours, or was it kind of a mixture of that and a learned behavior of. It's not always just the information. It's the information when the player is actually ready to receive it.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, I, I. And everyone's different. Andy, you, you know that. And everyone, you know, like you said, can accept it at different times, but it's kind of like, read the room, Read the room where they're coming from, and you better know the animal, okay? And I'm, I'm. All those people that I've coached throughout my career, everyone's different.

[Andy Roddick]

Every specifically, like how each one, like, go, go through a couple of players and just tell me, like, how they were different than from our experience.

[Larry Stefanki]

Well, like, you, like, like Henman, he would talk, he goes, larry, that, that was horrendous, okay? And he would start talking right away. I always let the player sort of come to me when it comes to after matches, before matches. I didn't like to, like, right before the match. I really. Except maybe I'll say, okay, remember body serves with this guy or one little thing. I like to do it the day before. So you get a time to kind of digest it and mill it over. And let's face it, these guys are top players, and they have a long, you know, track record of results leading up to how they want to play and what they're good at and how to execute and go out and do that. And it, it's kind of a feel I, I think because, you know, like, we started at the very beginning traveling all over the world, dealing with when I played. And you know, I learned a lot from my father in law, you know, on when to like, tell us who

[Andy Roddick]

he is, tell us about him.

[Larry Stefanki]

Because John Brody, you know, John Brody and you know he'd say, largey, Largey, tomorrow is another day. I mean he had these little sayings that were just.

[Andy Roddick]

I'm going to interrupt and brag because Larry just skipped over that, that, that opportunity to one we love. John Brody, recently gone. He's not with us, but I mean, just a gem legend of a human. Love him forever. He was drafted in base professional baseball, was the MVP of the NFL. And then when that was done, he decided he was going to play golf in one Senior PGA event. Like one of the most naturally like gifted athletes ever. So take that context and go, go with that story.

[Larry Stefanki]

What, and what a leader. And he was my mentor, he was my second dad. And I knew, I've known Johnny passed away obviously a few weeks ago since I was 13 years old, and I took Kelly out at 17, married her 24. We've been together about 44 years now or you know, in May. And so I don't know how she even put up with me this long. But he was, he, he was, he was a really, he was an amazing individual, most positive individual, giving. And when I left Berkeley, he said, larsy, you can play this game. We're gonna make this happen. You're gonna play this game and I know you can play. And, and I, and he had such a high belief in me, okay? And he, he gave so many people opportunities to like, believe in themselves, to go out and, and, and, and thrive for your dreams, okay? And so he was one of those individuals. We played a lot of gambling games in golf, okay? And I would be in town and you know, large Z is a seven. I say, oh geez, okay, let's go. You know, and so he goes, how much you want to lose today? Say 300 is my max. 300 is my man. You go, that's it? And he, he's, he's playing for a lot, okay? And I said, now If I lose 500, okay, I'm gonna be pissed, okay? And so we, we get down halfway through the thing and these guys would, you know, be doing whatever it is. And he goes, largely, don't worry about it. These guys are gonna go away. The whole match is 15, 16, 17, 18. That's the only thing in golf you got to realize that. And he would chip in twice on those last four holes. And every time, he was such a gifted. And he would look like he. Because he was a smoker, you know, and he'd, you know, throw the thing away. Largely, this is going in and he didn't make it. And you go, what? How is that possible? But jb, JB was one of these individuals that was a gamer. He was a leader, okay? And he, he liked to be in, in control of what's going on. And, and he, he would give you the shirt off his back. He'd say, you need Larry, that driver sucks. He goes, go in the garage. I got 35 of them in there. Take whatever you need.

[Andy Roddick]

Geez. It just reminded me of the putters that. You mean. Larry Stefanki has 747 putters in a garage, right?

[Larry Stefanki]

500. I got like 500. Yeah, in the garage. We can go down there and do. Take what you want, okay? So, you know, he was that kind of an individual, and he was so special to me because sometimes I'd come home from a trip and I. I sucked, okay? And he'd see me moping around, he'd go, what are you moping around? He goes. He goes, you think, you think you're the first guy that got their ass handed to him? I said, okay, you got your ass kicked this, this trip, okay? Do something about it. Get better. Stop sitting around, moping around. Strap it on and get better. Put it in the hard model. Get out there and start going, okay. There's just a bad week, bad couple weeks for you. So JB was so positive, and he was so special in that regard, and he's so inclusive. He would get a guy, someone sitting, hey, you want to play with us today? And he would bring guys in. He was one of those kind of guys.

[Andy Roddick]

He brought him in so that he could take 300 off of them.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's at least that. No, you wouldn't want to play.

[Andy Roddick]

So.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, but JB was, he was just, you know, it's one of the last. I, I. He loved using these analogies. That's probably why I do. Because he says, the engine is the important part, that you're what you do, okay? And that's what I kind of always thrive for. Like, people go, oh, I make 30 million. I said, I don't give a. How much money you have. You got a lot of holes in your Game, okay? And so whatever it might be, and that's how JB was. He goes, you want to get better? He goes, go to the engine. See? Okay? Don't look in the back of the computer. That. That's. He goes, you deserve that. You earn that, okay? And. And because you're a great player, and you've done that. But, like, when Johnny kind of approached me, it dropped to 28 in the world. He goes, oh, Larry, I was the greatest player in 84. I said, dude, it's 1991, okay? They've lapped you, okay? And so you. You need to get to start into the hard mile. And Johnny did not like training, okay? So, you know, all these kind of things, if you really want to do something about it, stop crying about it, get out there and start working harder at your field. And then the caboose will be filled up. If, If. If, you know, you have the talent.

[Andy Roddick]

There's two.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's how he kind of put it.

[Andy Roddick]

There's two things. I'm glad you mentioned jb, because I remember that thing where, you know, I mean, I remember this specifically. And, you know, after we lost the 09 Wimbledon final, I remember talking to, you know, you. And you mentioned the JB story, and it's like, all right, you got to get back to work. Like, you take your time, be emotional, get over it. But, like, you can be sad and get a track workout in. You know, it's like you could. You could do both of those things. And it seems simple enough, but I think I repeat that all the time in one other JB story. I remember we started working together, and it's like, 09. We do fine. We make the semis in Australia, and we're in Palm Springs, and I'm kind of getting to know jb, and at that point, he had had a stroke, so his right arm was kind of in a fist, so he didn't really use it. And Larry and I. I didn't really play golf. Larry played golf. So I'm like, all right, I go out and try to hit the ball a little bit, and, you know, JB would. You know, he would speak in, like, three words at a time. You know, at that point, he's like, golf, you, me. And I said, all right, let's.

[Larry Stefanki]

Let's.

[Andy Roddick]

Let's fucking do this. You have one arm, and it's your left hand. Like, I'm pretty sure that. And I'm sure he was thinking, how much money are you willing to lose today? But I remember he goes, you know, Where I'm going with the story number one across the street, looking into. So I kind of. I'm not good at golf at that point, but I make a double bogey, right? I'm not. I'm not. I don't play well at that point. This guy. The only thing was he needs a tee for each shot at that point because he can't go down and like, dig it, right? And so, like, that was. Those were the caveats. Larry sets up the bet for the hole, right? So he tees off left handed, one hand, boom, you know, I don't know. Hits it 80 yards, does it again, does it again, dribbles one up. So anyways, I'm in for six. He has like a 45 footer uphill bender to the right. And I remember Larry comes over, he goes, watch this. And I'm like, okay, I understand the legend, I understand the myth, I understand the thing. I also have eyeballs. And I can see that he's not like physically what he was at one point where all these mythical stories come from. And so, sure as shit, one hand on the putter, hits it, rolls up. I'm like, as fit as I've ever been. I have like 3%. I look great. At that point. He's got one arm and he clicks it, makes it to beat me by one, starts laughing his ass off and goes, ha, ha, ha, ha. And he goes, you suck.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's jb. Yeah, that's what he would say.

[Andy Roddick]

It was. It was fantastic.

[Larry Stefanki]

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[Andy Roddick]

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[Larry Stefanki]

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[Andy Roddick]

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[Larry Stefanki]

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[Andy Roddick]

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[Larry Stefanki]

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[Andy Roddick]

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[Larry Stefanki]

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[Andy Roddick]

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[Larry Stefanki]

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[Andy Roddick]

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[Larry Stefanki]

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[Larry Stefanki]

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[Andy Roddick]

That's why you rack. One thing I. I need you to walk me through, because I. I started you down the path and then you went to talking about others and, and players and the whole thing. Set the scene. 1985. You're a wild card. You're the touring pro hired by the club. You're basically there because you're brought in as a practice partner for people that they thought might actually win that tournament. Talk about the local build. You win one, like, you win two matches there. It's like a good result at that point, you know, in your career. The build, the build, the build. Semis. You may have just. You might not have even played on stadium until the semis or something like that.

[Larry Stefanki]

They transferred me after I beat Scott Davis, the round before they put me into the center.

[Andy Roddick]

So tennis players might relate to Vachero winning Shanghai last year. Now take. Now take that story and pretend like Vachero did it in Monte Carlo while being the touring pro in the practice partner for the players that actually train at Monte Carlo Country Club. You win this fucking tournament from 140 in the world as a wild card in your kind of new adopted hometown. Like, I think this is one of the most forgotten. Like, I don't want to say. I don't want to be disrespectful, but, like Cinderella stories of an event and someone winning in tennis history. Larry.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, well, well, you know, you said it earlier. You know, you get into this thing where you're the fittest you've ever been. Okay. You said, yeah, okay. You're down to 100. You're £200 or £198 and 96, whatever it might be. I'm 27 years old. I'm. I'm. I'm feeling him. Even though the week before in Delray beach, you know, all the umpires walked off. You got drilled by Linda.

[Andy Roddick]

Like, you won, like, two games.

[Larry Stefanki]

Okay. Yeah. Drills me. Okay. And the whole stadiums. Every point, people are yelling and going crazy. It's at night, I go home. I'm playing some of the best tennis I've ever played. Okay. Connors comes to the site almost a week early. Okay. Because, you know, La Quinta It's, It's. It's, you know, altitude. So I'm practiced. I practiced with him three times before the. Before the. The tournament. He always wanted to practice. I didn't miss with Connors. And Jimmy was the number one seed. And he loved practice. Me and he used to come to La Quinta and call me because. Okay, the good thing about La Quinta was Connors played the year before. This is a true story. And they used extra duty pens, okay? And Connor says, I'm never coming back to the stinking term. The balls are big as grapefruits. I'm. Blah, blah. So they play with the red dot things that. At Memphis. And Andy loved playing. Love those red.little BB. He loved those BB's. Okay? And so we're playing in La Quinta with this single felt okay. I hate to say ladies ball, but it was okay. And Connor's going, oh, this is great. Now I can hit through the court. I hit it by the side base. You know, he's going like this. And I'm hitting these bunny kick serves over people's head. The thing was like, almost like a super ball, okay. And I'm hitting up a whole, you know, 75, 80 miles an hour, so.

[Andy Roddick]

But you also understand the homegrown air. Like the ball travels for the. Like people are having to adjust. That's just your life.

[Larry Stefanki]

This is my. Yeah, this is a home game. And I know every crack on that court. No, I know on both court. Not the center court so much. That's why I avoided. But that little, that little clubhouse court used to be a swimming pool, okay. They had little pit marks and little indentations on it. And you could hit into that zone like a bad grass court at Roehampton and you'd get this weird super bowl bounce, okay? So I played. I played my first round and I get through it. And you know, the guy was. He was ranked. I don't. I think he might have been in qualifier, okay? And I can't even remember his name. But the second round, I play Aguilera, okay? Juan Aguilera from Spain. He's ranked 7 in the world. He won Hamburg. Okay? I'm looking at this guy go. If I lose to this guy in a hard court, okay, this is how my brain thought. I suck. This guy, this guy can't play on hardcore.

[Andy Roddick]

Wait, so wait, just let me just. Let me just. I just need to put a pin in this because like the psychosis of an athlete brain, you're 130 or 140 in the world. Yeah, it was a top 10. Guy's ranked 7 in the world. And you're. And you have an honest. Like your honest recollection of yourself at that moment is, if I lose to this guy, I suck. And you're 140 and he's seven. Okay, continue.

[Larry Stefanki]

Okay. And he's serving. He's serving, you know, I mean, I can't even tell you. He conserved great groundies. You know, he played really free in the back and. But a serve. I'm. I'm taking a serve and I'm just whacking and running the net, okay? And we go into the first set, and I think I wanted like six, two or three. I've said one. You stick, okay? You might be a good clay court player, but here, here on this court. So I start getting this really distorted view in my. I'm going to beat this guy like hamburger. I'm going to sit back and I'm going to grind this into the ground like an eraser on the second set. So we get into this war, okay? And it gets in the tiebreaker, and I'm saying, what am I doing? Okay? And it's like four on the tiebreaker, and I'm staying back every ball, and I end up losing. Seven, six. And I have Tommy Tucker in the sidelines. He goes, get the net, idiot. Okay?

[Andy Roddick]

He said, it's not rocket science. Go to net.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, get the net. Okay? And I end up. And I sound like I got shook up in the head, okay? And I started chipping and charging on every second serve, humming the ball and everything. And the points were going like this. And I tell people now, no one ever, like, takes a return and, like, whacks it and comes in at anymore. No one. There's not one person on the. I watch a lot. He does, okay? He's about the only guy that can actually talent enough to control the racket face because the ball spitting around, okay? And get to where he can, and he has a foot speed. And so I think that's an underrated shot. And so I end up beating him in three sets, luckily, because I got my ego said, oh, God, I've improved so much working with Higueras now. I got great ground strokes. I said, yeah, they're adequate, but they're no good. I'm not winning any points in the backcourt. My game was coming forward and ending the point with opportunity. And the shortest ball in a rally is a second serve. It's all it's been from the history of time, okay? That's Kind of like, you know, you watch these guys like Fonseca, they got a lot of work to do on their second serves. And. And because it goes so short, I mean, if they played some good returners like Kafelnikov or Agassi or Continental, they'd be in a world of hurt with that. That thing. That thing. That thing's not doing anything, okay? And so, because it didn't never come forward, you're on the run. You're running like a rat in the back court.

[Andy Roddick]

You beat Aguilar, but I got it.

[Larry Stefanki]

Who am I playing next? I gotta play Scott Davis.

[Andy Roddick]

Scott Davis?

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, Davis. And the guy has a heart attack in the. I'm up six, four.

[Andy Roddick]

Like a real one, sir.

[Larry Stefanki]

A real one. Wait, wait.

[Andy Roddick]

Not Scott Davis.

[Larry Stefanki]

No, no, no. The guy in the stands, okay? I was like, he's walking like this. He weighs 250 pounds. Boom. And he goes down. And the ATP doctor, they come together and they're both arguing.

[Andy Roddick]

Herb, Herb, Cristian, he.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, Herb.

[Andy Roddick]

Yeah, there you go.

[Larry Stefanki]

Is he okay? And he's. He. He's on there with this guy, and he has a shirt off. They rip his shirt off, and they're pounding on this guy's chest, okay? And. And so the umpire goes, play on, gentlemen. I look at my. Go, are you serious? And I go, scotty. Because I know Scotty from. From. We recruited him to go to Berkeley when he was 16.

[Andy Roddick]

So the guy's dying, and the umpire tells you to keep playing.

[Larry Stefanki]

Dying. No. And he's. No, no, He's. I'm not kidding. He's 30ft away from us on the ledge. He fell over. He took one of the pots, and the pots crashed, and he fell down and he had a heart attack. And so then he. And. And I go, I'm not playing. Scott, are you playing? He goes, no, I'm not playing. Okay, we got to get this guy out of here. I mean, what's. And all the people are milling around. The place is in chaos, okay? And then you can hear the. The am. You can't make this up. Ambulance in Lakeena. And he's running away. They're trying to find how to get into the tennis facility. Just get this guy to the Kennedy Hospital in India, okay? And so. And the guy goes, I'm sorry, gentlemen, but we've. We've waited long enough. You need to play. I said, okay, dude. I said we're not playing. So I don't know. You bring over Ken Farrar. Bring over the. The supervisor. We're not Playing. Okay, we can't play, but now I'm getting nervous because I got this guy by the balls, okay? I'm up and set in the break. Scotty's seated. He's like, 14 in the world. I'm thinking, I gotta get. I gotta get this match over because this guy Scotty's all hacked off, okay? And we're both. Who can beat each other. It's like playing anecdote. Who can beat each other to the net, okay? And. And it's real hot, okay? That time period, the finals, that year is end of February, was 125 on the center court at La Quinta. And you can look it up, okay? That is a true story. I embellish a little bit, but that. That. It was. It was so flipping hot, okay? And that was another thing for me. Everyone's going, oh, it's so hot. It's so hot. They're crying like stuffed pigs. And I'm thinking, oh, this is great, everyone. This is. These guys have no idea. I'm going to run these guys in the ground. All I got to do is bunt, bunt, bunt. And then when they hit a short one, I'm gonna whack it and come in and end it. That's basically. You know, it was a pretty simple game. My game. Bunny kick and get the net.

[Andy Roddick]

But, like, okay, so semis, you go the finals.

[Larry Stefanki]

Like, yeah, semis. Are you, like.

[Andy Roddick]

But it's not as if you're in semis every week in a. Like, this big of a tournament in a major. This is massive.

[Larry Stefanki]

I go to. I go to watch. I go to watch the. The quarterfinals. Holmes against Connors. I got to play the winner. I watched the first set.

[Andy Roddick]

So you're cheering against Connors.

[Larry Stefanki]

Absolutely. Because that matchup is no good. That matchup is no good for Lorenzo, okay? I'm telling you. Yeah. I'm in big trouble playing the Connors. Holmes plays two hands on both sides, and he's making this guy look like a schoolboy. He beats him like two and one, two and two. Holmes beats Connors. He's taking every ball like Segura on the rise and hitting it four inches from the baseline, Mach 2. And I'm thinking, oh, how am I going to be this guy? So after the first set, six, two, I leave. I get on my bike, okay?

[Andy Roddick]

You still didn't think he was going to pull it out?

[Larry Stefanki]

My bike. I lived across the street.

[Andy Roddick]

You talk about a tournament. Tournament champion riding his bike to the event, right?

[Larry Stefanki]

In the event. And. Okay, okay. The last two matches, I got a golf cart. We had a golf cart. So Kelly dropped me off in the golf cart and then picked me up after. But the first three matches, okay, I rode my bike, okay? And so because I was a touring pro, that's how I kind of did it there. And so the same as I'm playing Holmes, and I knew Holmes from. He's younger than me, but I knew that his forehand, okay, was his shot before the backhand was his shot. And the forehand was a little weak because he. And he got. He had to switch like this. He had to switch his hands. He didn't hold one. And then play that like Jeannie Mayer played on the same.

[Andy Roddick]

Both sides were like a backhand grip.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's right. And he had to flip them. Yeah. So he. And he kind of started returning with his hand. So where he could. It was below so he could hit a backhand. So what I was doing, he would choke up halfway. So I kind of figured out, okay, listen, I'm gonna play. I'm gonna serve every ball to this guy's forehand because he really. His backhand is like Agassiz and his forehand looks like mine, okay? Which is not good. Okay? So I serve every ball to this guy's forehead and I chop. I beat this guy, okay? It was pretty close, but I. Oh, and I beat your buddy Tariq Benabilis in the quarters who beat Creek to beat Creek. I mean, all these guys were like. And there was like so many upsets, okay? Being a Beely's beats Creek. I. Oh, God. I beat Ben Abilis in Kaduna, Africa, okay? In a challenger. He can't play tennis, okay? There's no. Any sports.

[Andy Roddick]

He can play tennis. That guy was.

[Larry Stefanki]

No, no, he was good.

[Andy Roddick]

Five foot six, racket skills.

[Larry Stefanki]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. He played like Hikamarasi, okay? This guy, he could. He could flip balls all. I mean, like flapjack at the Denny store.

[Andy Roddick]

If he was 6 foot 4, no one would have ever beaten that guy for sure.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, yeah. If you play bulldog tennis with the guy. Oh, Libby, that's not. That's not tennis. What is this CEO. He was one of those guys. So, you know, you kind of always tried to get under his skin by bulldogging him. And so I played Tariq to play Holmes to play David Pate in the finals, okay? And. And, And Pate was from Vegas and I was.

[Andy Roddick]

So he knew the air a little bit.

[Larry Stefanki]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Andy Roddick]

Vegas is.

[Larry Stefanki]

He was.

[Andy Roddick]

He was the same.

[Larry Stefanki]

And. And Pancho Gonzalez was coaching him at the time, helping him. Pancho is a good friend of mine, and he came up, he goes, you got no chance today. I went, okay, Ponce, listen, get out of my face and go away, okay? And so. And so. And Ponch was a. Ponch had a look like Andy when he got pissed, okay? Every time he looked at you, okay? And. And because he was from Vegas, Caesar's, you know, the touring and the pro from Caesars. And Poncho is the greatest guy ever. And so before the match, he gets and gives me this, oh, you got no chance, blah, blah, blah. And in the Runway, we're ready to go out on the court. And we both used Adidas. And the head of Adidas comes up, puts the arm around both those. Good luck, gentlemen. I hope the best guy wins. I'm thinking to myself, okay, I've beaten this guy like, six times before. Hey, there's no way I'm losing to this guy, okay? But then I started to think, finals are pretty good. I'm thinking to myself, richard's right. With this guy in my head, and I said, snap out of it. I kind of slapped myself on the side of the head. Snap out of it. This is your one opportunity, okay? This is a. This is a 1000 if you limp out soundtrack, Sean. Yeah, yeah, limp out on this thing, okay? I'm gonna. It's going to be totally unacceptable. So the first game, okay? Then there's a best of five. See, in the old days, the 1000s were all best final. People don't realize it. Okay? So it's 125. My legs are not feeling too good, and they're a little wobbly, okay? So we get out, and the first thing, we do the toying flip, and I go, I'll surf. I start to think. I start the match. Double miss ball in the, like, the bottom of the net and a double. So I'm down love 40 in the first three points. And I'm thinking to myself, you haven't made a mistake. And now sphincteritis has got a hold of you. Okay? And okay, I lose servant love. I sit on the. I sit on the. On the changeover, put the towel over my head and give myself the biggest tongue lashing ever, okay? Like, you are this race. You're gonna choke this thing. Everyone's here. You got 16,000.

[Andy Roddick]

This is after. This is after four minutes of tennis.

[Larry Stefanki]

One game in a best of five. Okay? I'm so pissed off. I'm literally doing, like, you know. You know, I'm kicking My own ass, okay? I'm going like this, you know, like,

[Andy Roddick]

what's the Jim Carrey move? It's like, what are you doing? He goes, I'm kicking my ass. Kicking my ass. My ass.

[Larry Stefanki]

That's exactly. That's what I'm doing underneath this towel. And so the next. I end up winning the set. I'm so 6:1, okay? And I get back into the slot, but that I lose servant love. And I win the set of 6:1, and I just kind of go, okay. And then I win the next set. And I'm thinking, God damn it, why isn't this two out of three? Why are we playing best of five? This should be over. I should be the champion of the stupid event, okay? And the next. Next set, I lose.

[Andy Roddick]

Then you start getting tight.

[Larry Stefanki]

No, Then I go, oh, I'm behind the eight ball. You know what it is? Like, okay, I'm not going five. And my legs. And I'm looking at his legs. I'm always staring at the opponent. That's another thing about tennis nowadays. No one checks out their opponent. Okay? Okay. When the guy's struggling, Andy used to. He goes, I. I just grind this guy longer points, longer points. Because if you have wheels, you can. In these. In these conditions, you can get these guys, like an eraser until they. They can't go anymore. Djokovic choose to do that.

[Andy Roddick]

Yeah, I was gonna say watch. Watch Novak on the changeover.

[Larry Stefanki]

Oh, my God. Andy got him two or three times on the Physical fitness Australia, Cincinnati. I mean, he. He pulls the ripcord. He looks for the exit side, you know, and it's in there somewhere, okay? And you just got to find it. You got to get them to, you know, figure out how to get to the exit side. So we get to the four set. It's four, three. I cross the net, and Tom Gorman's there, right? And he kind of walks out. He goes, larry, hang in there. I said, dude, my legs are fucked if I don't win the set. If I don't win this set, I'm in big trouble. I'm looking at pate, and Pete's not looking good either, okay? And it was really, really hot. But I'm thinking, okay, Larry, you got to get this thing done. You have to somehow get this thing done. So it gets to 4. 3. 4, 3. It gets the 4 all. I end up greasing him or breaking him somehow. I break a bit. Four, three or four, I break him, and then I end up serving for the match. That was kind of like A blur. But I just, I just got it done. Ended up, yeah, I got it done. And you know, even a blind squirrel finds it, you know, an acorn every now and then. And the ironic thing is the next year I played John Lloyd, first round to defending champion on the same court I beat John Lloyd and then David Pate gets me.

[Andy Roddick]

Oh, that's a fine trade off for you, though.

[Larry Stefanki]

When I shook hands, I said, I said, Jesus Christ. Okay, now you beat me one time out of seven or one time out of eight. Okay. I'm just so happy that was, didn't happen last year.

[Andy Roddick]

Yeah. I'll give you the second round for the final.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, was a funny guy. We were good friends. We were good friends. So he, he just kind of said, yeah, you know.

[Andy Roddick]

You know, we have a. Jw, think about if you have anything else for Larry. We're going to wrap this pod at some point, but we do have Larry for Q and Andy on Thursday, so we're going to, we have some listener submitted questions. So we're going to plug that. So listen to this one. And then going to shoot Q and Andy right now. So definitely listen in on Thursday for these stories. I don't know that there's a better storyteller in tennis. Jw, what else you got? All right, here's, here's one last sweeping question. You have great stories, great accumulated wisdom. You have this perspective. I'm going to keep going here. You have this. You're out of fucks to give. You're not going to do this for Instagram followers. I can think of so many players who would benefit from having you as a coach. What would it take to get you back out there? What would the circumstances have to be?

[Larry Stefanki]

No, that, that, that's not going to happen, John. I mean, I, I, I would love to do it. You know what I'd love to do? I would love to really help a lot of these young guys. I throw this out even with their coach because I think their coach could learn an awful lot. But to go out after, you know, this, the zoo that they've created out there, that's not my gig anymore. Anymore. I've done that. I mean, it would have to be a real.

[Andy Roddick]

I was about to say, I was about to say, I think he would do it in the right scenario. If you dangle a little, I can make an impression. For someone who wins a slam for the first time. I call bullshit. I think you would do it.

[Larry Stefanki]

I could do it. No, I could do it. If the, if the, if the chemistry was right, okay? I mean, where it was like, you know, one thing about players that I've kind of worked with, the Fernando's, the Cafelnikovs, the Henmans, the Roddick, they never pointed fingers in the blame game. And Andy was really, really good at that. He said, larry, you're never going to see me say it's your fault. Okay? One time I screwed up with the Feliciano Lopez. I said, the guy can't hit over the backhand. He's playing the guy. And if he is like he's hitting winners on every ball, he goes, good coaching, Larry.

[Andy Roddick]

Yeah, but I mean, that was the only time. True, but he decided that he could hit a backhand passing shot for like that two hour stretch at Wimbledon to put us out that one year.

[Larry Stefanki]

Yeah, I mean, I just went, what the fuck was that? I said, this guy couldn't. He came and all of a sudden now he looks like Johnny Mac. Okay? I said, and he would lean back and hit balls into the fence before. But you know, if, if, if it was really a good scenario, like I said earlier, John, I'm not a Lego piece. It has. We all have to be on the same page.

[Andy Roddick]

I have a question also, Larry, because I do think that you would do it in the right scenario. So like, we'll know.

[Larry Stefanki]

We.

[Andy Roddick]

It's like, how much would it take for you to do this? It's like, I don't know. You don't know until the briefcase is in front of you.

[Larry Stefanki]

Right, right.

[Andy Roddick]

But I have a question for you because I know, because we talked about it a ton. I pull the ripcord, I retire. You and Dougie are like, fuck. Okay, well, I guess let's figure out what we're. I know that you had a lot of really, really, really intriguing job offers in those two or three years kind of before that cycle goes through. And like, you know, it's easier to get rehired when you're just around the game all the time because you're like top of mind. Like I'm, I'm thinking about who I'm going to hire. I'm like, oh, fuck. I see Larry every week. You know, there's. That's interesting. Is there any job offer from that period of time that you regret not taking?

[Larry Stefanki]

No, I thought, I thought, you know, I mean, Mon Fils, Gigi Levi, need you restructure. But I said, no, no, no, dude. And I threw out these scenarios and he gave me all the wrong answers. Okay, so. And we did this back and forth thing you know, from Geneva for six weeks. Okay. I couldn't. I. And I'm, I'm glad I didn't do it. Murray was 18 with Fernando. They approached me. I went and I knew Andy from Eli Juniors with Monfis. They were the same time period in the juniors. And I just finished Rios. You know, we can go down the list. There are a lot of different people that approached me, but it just wasn't a good fit because they, they, you know, I don't, I don't think they really understand the work that it takes to make little. I always say it's like a thousand page novel, okay? You got to go through page after, but you can't skip chapters, you can't go to the end, okay. It doesn't work that way. And it's. And if you're not on the same page, knowing it's a hard mile and knowing there's going to be some struggle,

[Andy Roddick]

you feel like, you feel like you can read that pretty close to being right, just with a couple of interactions.

[Larry Stefanki]

I'm a pretty good judge of human nature and character. Interesting what comes. Whether or not that's why we say, I mean, I've been approached, you know, Coco Golf to. All the way down the line, not her directly. I gave her, you know, an opportunity to call me, but she never called. But, you know, I like for players to take responsibility for the direction they're going to. Don't tell me my dad says my dis. I don't coach parents. I don't coach agents, okay? And that's, that's the number one rule for me, okay? And if you want all that other stuff, you know, you get somebody else because we're not going to last anyway. I just know my personality, and I played it, you know, a fairly high level. And I, I know what it takes, you know, and, and you've got it. You've got to be very secure with yourself and, and, and believe in who you're trusting your career with. We talk about this a lot when we were together, Eddie. So would you take a corporation and get some guy that doesn't have any experience at all and say, okay, guide me to the top, okay? Well, you wouldn't, you wouldn't take, you know, you know, any major corporation in the United States and hire some guy out of the bag room, I mean, out of the mail room? I don't think. But, you know, experience is very, very important. And I started at the very, very ground level with Tommy Ho when He was ranked 1200, okay. And he was 15 years old. So I know. And I played before that for 10 years. So it's experience. And what your credential is, is pretty important. And if. And if you're going to entrust it into somebody, it's got to be mutual, okay? And, and, and so that's how I kind of view it. I look at it today. I go, what, What, That, What? You know, and, you know, and I just, you know, and you get. You get these opportunities, and if it's the right fit, I say, usually I say, let's go to lunch, let's go to dinner, or let's get on the phone a few, you know, hundred times. Andy, wasn't that. That. That I said, you know what you can do on the tennis court, Your assets, okay? Your best, best server. You've been the best server five, six, seven years at that time, and maybe top five of all time, in my opinion. And so you have assets in the. And you just. You just get where they're coming from. What do you want to do? What do you mean, what do I do? What do you want to do? You want to win slabs? You want to do this? What do you want to see? How do you see yourself playing? And what do you want to accomplish? And then you kind of formulate a plan and you go from there.

[Andy Roddick]

Larry, I just. I could listen to you talk tennis for hours. I have done it for hours and days and years of years of my life. I'll tell you, I wish for us and for you almost more than for me. I wish we would have won two more points at Wimbledon in.09, because I think what you did with making me look like I could actually move my feet, with taking damaged goods on one side and kind of retrofitting a game or an experience around it when not a lot of people actually knew the balls and strikes and, like, what we were doing, they're going, why is he extending points like what? Because I don't have a fucking option because I don't have a. I don't have an uppercut anymore. I wish that we would have done it because I think the job you did deserved that outcome. And so I'm thankful for that forever. I learned a lot from you. I've. My. If I had. I've said this before, if I had to go back and start my career again right now, you'd be the guy that I would hire. So happy that you were able to come on. I called Larry last Friday and I said, will you come and do the show? And he goes, no, Absolutely not. Real pain in my ass for. For, for a long time. But you know I love you. You know I love your family. You know I love Kel. I know that we're gonna.

[Larry Stefanki]

We're gonna love your kid, Hank.

[Andy Roddick]

We're gonna come back. We're gonna have Q and a Q Andy on. On Thursday. But this is a wrapped first served this week. But if you want more of these stories and you're psycho if you don't, check out Thursday's Q Andy also with your questions for the man, the myth, the legend, the old Larry Stefanki. All right. I don't know how everyone else is doing emotionally. I'm spent from hearing from the old Larry Stefanki. Just like the best type of roller coaster is the way that I can describe it. I look back so fondly on the four and a half years that we spent together. Hopefully you got some insight. You know what I love about tennis is just characters, like these insane cast of characters that come from this melting pot of earth. It's not like you go into certain sports where they play it in certain regions, and then you end up talking. It's just sprawling. All these different characters from all these different places on earth. It's just. And when you can get someone unfiltered to talk about the reality of tennis is I love it. That's a big reason why we do this show. Anyways, I hope you like this episode. I just love any excuse to spend any amount of time with Larry. And I'm thankful he finally came on after telling me no forever. This episode, like most of them, is brought to you by ServiceNow. So please check in next week. We're gonna do all things Indian Wells. We have a big recap show because we didn't get to the current events of things. Hopefully after listening to that interview with Larry, you agree with our strategy. I don't know. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Hopefully this was a win. I certainly think it was. Thanks for watching serv. We'll see you next week. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built on. With the ServiceNow AI platform, your AI data and workflows all work together, connecting every corner of your business. To see how you can put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com AI-agents. Shot clocks, big shots, upsets, aces. TGL playoffs are here. First, Atlanta Drive starts their repeat run against Los Angeles Golf Club. Then Rory's Boston Common golf and Tigers Jupiter Links face off in their playoff debuts. Who will advance? Keep up its playoffs. Tune in Tuesday March 17th at 6:30pm and 9pm only on ESPN, and the ESPN applied.