Kim Clijsters (3:38)

Definitely. I do feel like a lot of the very small tournaments that I used to play were. I felt like you had a closer connection to the fans because they were sitting closer to the court. But one of my favorites was the one that I always played after the Australian Open was the one in Belgium. And that's not because it was more relaxing, but I was home. Like, I had some of the most amazing experiences, like on court, playing in front of, you know, our Madison Square Gardens, called the Sports palace in Belgium. And, yeah, just walking out onto, you know, whatever it was, 20,000, 19,000 people, and just seeing everybody cheer you on, like, it was pressure, but at the same time, like, never felt goosebumps walking out on court like I did then. So everybody has their connections, but I. I haven't seen a draw there, but I assume, like, why it's also one of the favorite for. For Francis is maybe because you don't get all the. Your typical clay court players from South America and, like, the South Europeans into the schedule. I haven't seen the draw, so. But before I jump to conclusions, you're not.

Blair Henley (4:42)

You're not completely wrong there. There are four Argentines, though, in the draw this year, and one of them last night just absolutely dismantled Colton Smith, an American, Thiago Augustin Tarante who I had never seen play before, but I said, you know, there are four Argentines in the draw here. Has word gotten out that Houston's the place to be? And he said, yeah, you know, this is for us. You know, we're in the Americas. We love the conditions here. So there are a few South Americans.

Kim Clijsters (5:13)

A good stop. A good stop before they head over to Europe. Right? Exactly. Like brake stop on the American soil.

Blair Henley (5:20)

Totally.

Kim Clijsters (5:20)

But exciting times. And I think we'll talk a little bit more next week about next week's episode about the transition from the hard courts onto the red clay, what the differences are on, you know, green clay, red clay, different surfaces. So excited to talk, to talk and to kind of go into dissecting a little bit what that part of the season is like.

Blair Henley (5:42)

Yeah, we're going to go through Henley's headlines and some confirmation, and I have a rec room for all of you today. Kim, if you. You do great. If you don't, that's okay, too. Well, we'll let you save up for.

Kim Clijsters (5:52)

For the following. I have a few saved, so I can, you know, I can use a few.

Blair Henley (5:57)

Kim's got a backlog of confirmation, though. Before we get to Henley's headlines, I did want to follow up on one thing that people might have seen in Miami that I was able to ask about in Media Day yesterday with Tommy Paul. He and Archer Feast had one of the matches of the tournament. I guess that was the quarterfinals, I believe. Quarterfinals, fourth round. This is where my tournament amnesia come in, comes into play. Um, but, you know, Feast saved four match points, and it was just a heartbreaking end for Tommy Paul at the end of that match. And I'm always fascinated as somebody who in general, in life is a terrible loser, like, I don't lose well, I probably do maybe off the tennis court better than I was on the tennis court. But I wanted to know, like, how did you get over that? And he said, well, I didn't sleep at all that night. And then the next day, he said it was really good that I was surrounded by the people that I like and I love and my friends. And the next day, he went and supported his fiance, Paige Lorenz, at one of her Dairy Boy pop ups in South Florida. I was like, that is. That's pretty amazing. He did say there might have been, like, some alcohol involved the night after. After the lac.

Kim Clijsters (7:13)

Yes.

Blair Henley (7:14)

But he said, you know, I surrounded by people I love, and they help me move on, and I just kind of move week to week. How long did you hang on to a loss, like, a really tough one, I would say.

Kim Clijsters (7:27)

Like, the Grand Slam losses early on in my career, like, the finals especially, they stick with you for a few days, even longer, right? Like, they're on the back of your head a little bit, the back of your mind a little bit longer. What I always find really hard was, like, going back because, you know, back in. Back in the day in Belgium, you know, you felt the support, but you didn't have social media like you do back then. It was, you know, the newspapers and the headlines and all that stuff. But what I found the hardest was, like, going over to my grandparents after, like, a trip, right? Like, my grandpa, who's like, they were like my biggest fans. They were, you know, why'd you lose? Like, like, literally like that, like, and, like, against Justine, like, why, you know, like, it's like, I'm like, well, she was good. I didn't play well. Like, I'm sorry.

Blair Henley (8:13)

Like, sheesh, Grandma and Grandpa.

Kim Clijsters (8:16)

That's how I would come home. But they were so heartbroken. Like, they wanted it so badly for me. And, like, you know, they have no filters, so they would just say, like, you know, and then, yeah, like, those were like, the times where I was like, I know, I'm so sorry. Like, but it could make you laugh, too, after a while, right? But then the good thing is about tennis is that you could still, you know, have the next opportunity, literally a few weeks later, and. And I'll talk about that a little bit further when we start talking about Saba Lanka and everything, but, you know, losing the Australian Open final, frustration and seeing where she's at now, that's basically what tennis is about. You can stay down on yourself and be very disappointed, but the longer you stay in that kind of negative mindset, it's not going to help you in the next tournament. So to me, tennis, getting back out on the practice court, approaching what was coming up, was always kind of my go to move, to try and forget about it as soon as possible.

Blair Henley (9:16)

And I also wanted to shout out the tennis fiancees. At the moment. We have a couple in Houston and Mackie MacDonald, his fiance, Maria Matias, I think is, how you say her last name, also a fellow player. I think she's working through some injuries, but she's here serving as coach, physio psychologist. I asked, Mackie had a good win. He took out the defending champion, Jensen Brooks yesterday. And, you know, he said, has just his fiance and his box. And he said, you know, she's doing all the things and she's also the best looking coach on tour, which I thought was great.

Kim Clijsters (9:50)

Does that surprise you? Like, of course not. Like, that's.

Blair Henley (9:53)

No. Women are made to do all the things.

Kim Clijsters (9:55)

You can do it all.

Blair Henley (9:57)

Exactly.

Kim Clijsters (9:58)

I'm sure Brooklyn was Andy's coach, you know, for a while, too.

Blair Henley (10:02)

And sports psychologists. Yes. And all the things. And Tommy Paul was also funny. And press. I was asking him about his wedding planning. I think that's happening this summer. And he said, well, it's on a Tuesday, so you can't come to our wedding without taking time off work. Like, you have to really. You have to prioritize coming to this wedding. And I asked him what he was most likely to participate in in terms of the planning. I said, you know, is it the dress code? Is it the. The decor? Is it the flowers? He's like, oh, definitely the flowers. And I was like, tommy, what's your favorite flower? And you could sort of see the gears, like, grinding. So there was this dramatic pause and he goes, peonies. And I was like, that's.

Kim Clijsters (10:44)

That's fantastic.

Blair Henley (10:45)

This man is learning. He knows what a peony is. So it's neat. I think that personal side, obviously, I. You know, we're tennis nerds. We love to sort of break things down, but to see the personal side and to. To see these guys and learn about their lives off the court, I often find that it's. It's those types of things that really endears fans to a player for life. You can love the way that they hit their forehand, but so often it's that personal side that. That really makes the connection and that

Kim Clijsters (11:12)

will help him to get over the loss against Feast last week.

Blair Henley (11:16)

Right, Exactly. Just look at flowers.

Kim Clijsters (11:19)

Just smelling the flowers.

Blair Henley (11:21)

Just. Just pick the colors of your peonies, Tommy, and. And move on. So, yeah, lots of good stuff here in Houston. I will have some boots on the ground this week and an update from here when we talk to you guys next week, but should we move into Henley's headlines?

Kim Clijsters (11:36)

Yes, please. Let's go.

Blair Henley (11:37)

All right. Well, listen, everybody at this point knows the Sunshine Double has been completed for both Irina Sabalenka and Jannik Sinner, as well as Katerina Siniakova and Taylor Townsend. 3. Three of the four Sunshine doubles completed. It's the fourth time the same man and woman have won the Sunshine Double. And Kim, this made my head explode. I like to think that I have, like, a clue of some of the stats. I might not be able to recite them off the top of my head. But I had no idea that only five women have won the Sunshine Double. Only five? I'm speaking to one of them, so. So that's a little bit of a cheat code. Do you know the other four?

Kim Clijsters (12:22)

Well, I know IGA did it not too long ago. Serena in there? No.

Blair Henley (12:30)

Serena.

Kim Clijsters (12:31)

No, Serena. Steffi, probably.

Blair Henley (12:35)

Yep. So she was the first. She did it twice. She was the first to do it before you. So you were only the second woman to do it. That's crazy. In 2005, I believe, right?

Kim Clijsters (12:44)

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. And then who is the. Who's the last person?

Blair Henley (12:50)

Azarenka. Oh, yeah.

Kim Clijsters (12:53)

Yeah.

Blair Henley (12:54)

So, yeah.

Kim Clijsters (12:55)

Isn't that amazing? Yes. How. It's not that I remember it being so hard or anything.

Blair Henley (13:03)

It was like, it was no big deal.

Kim Clijsters (13:04)

No, it's like you get into the flow of things.

Blair Henley (13:06)

Right.

Kim Clijsters (13:07)

Like, you. Like, I always loved starting in Indian Wells because I felt really good. Whatever. It was something in the air from the moment that I stepped, like, on the hard courts there. Like, I just always felt good. Like, the timing was there naturally. I felt like I could see the ball well. Like, my vision was on point and just always felt good. And I was able to. Not always, but, you know, in 2005, luckily, I was able to carry that with me into Miami and kind of just build on the confidence booster that I got from winning Indian Wells and beating some really good players. And. Yeah. So I think it's very much so a confidence thing and to staying locked in. Right. There's a lot of things, especially in Miami, to get distracted with and to. You know, and so I think a lot of times it's. That, too, is like, just the ability to stay locked in and to stick to the same routine, although you're in a different city, and just stick to the same routines. And to me, that's what it was like probably for most of my career was to. Just once I was on the road at the tournaments, I was super locked in because my superstitiousness. And if I wasn't locked in or if I wasn't fully focused and 100% committed to what I had to do to be the best tennis player that I could be, that, to me, that equaled, like, I'm going to lose. Oh, if I go out, I'm going to lose. If I don't, you know, if I eat the wrong things, I'm going to lose. Right. Like, it's a very extreme way of thinking, but you do get to that point where you just stay super locked in and. And that's what? Yeah. That trip, especially for me, was just to not get distracted from the Miami energy.

Blair Henley (14:49)

What were some of your superstitions?

Kim Clijsters (14:52)

Oh, so many.

Blair Henley (14:54)

Really?

Kim Clijsters (14:54)

Yeah. From. I mean, there's cities and locker rooms that I can name, hotel rooms that, you know, my superstitiousness, like, in my bag were always the same. Like, nobody could touch my rackets or my grips once my grips were done. Right. Like, I didn't want any sweaty hands or dirty hands on my usually wide grip rackets. Right. Seriously, like, once they were done, I was like, okay. They had to be in certain order then. So let's say at the US Open, like, I had my favorite shower, right? So that started in 2005, when I've won my first one. So ever since then, I, you know, always wanted to, like, if I had to go to the bathroom right before the match, like, I would wait if the toilet. Like, if the toilet was occupied, like, I would wait until it was open because I would connect that in my head to, like, well, if I use another one, then, you know, the chance of me losing is gonna be bigger. No way.

Blair Henley (15:44)

Yeah.

Kim Clijsters (15:45)

Yeah. That's how bad, like, it can get, you know, And I would literally wait until, you know, the person, you know was on the bathroom would be done. And I didn't.

Blair Henley (15:55)

The Bryan brothers tell a story about this, where Rafa was in their shower. Did you hear this vitamin with Andy? Anyway, but I don't think you're alone in this. Is my point is that.

Kim Clijsters (16:04)

No. So, yeah, the showers, you know, it's the hotel that I stayed at in 2005. Like, I guess I messed up, and I didn't book a few weeks before the US Open started. Like, I didn't. I didn't book a hotel yet. And so the San Diego tournament director, Raquel, at the time, she's like, oh, I have a connection to. To a place in the city. It was the Michelangelo Hotel. And they, you know, gave me a room, and that was like, my. For the next. You know, probably still when I go to New York, like, that's my place where I go stay at if I want to. And that's amazing, right? So, you know, just over time, like, it just. I just stuck to the same thing. The same foods in the morning. Yeah. Routines, warmups, a lot of things. I mean, I can write a book probably about all the things that I, you know, had in my head.

Blair Henley (16:55)

Oh, my gosh. I'm jotting this down mentally so that we can have another episode where we do a deep dive into, like, what was.

Kim Clijsters (17:02)

It was more energy wise, too. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, definitely can name them all.

Blair Henley (17:09)

That's really. Well, I would think that. That having those routines, though, are so important also, because you are. It's. It's such a completely different atmosphere. The Indian Wells to Miami shift, and obviously the conditions are different. You're. You're going from dry to humidity. There are a lot of things that are changing. And so having the things that you can keep exactly the same, I can see that being important.

Kim Clijsters (17:31)

Yeah. And I think in general, the tennis world is just so many uncontrollables. Right. Like timing of your matches or whatever is happening. Like, there's. So you hold on to a little bit of control that you can have in your own life, whether it's in your. In your bag or in your. In your room, in the hotel or in your locker, whatever it is, you kind of. Yeah. Become a little bit over the top. And I always say, like, I do think I was a little bit OCD back in the day. I definitely am not like that, so. But I think tennis definitely made me where the pressure of it all made me be. Yeah. A lot more superstitious and. And locked in.

Blair Henley (18:13)

It was also a great 10 days for Coco Gauff, who, of course, reached the final, lost in three sets to Irina. And she. She had some really interesting things to say after the final, but she was on fire, impressed. All week long, she said on court in one of her encore interviews that she saw somebody tweet that she should be coming to the net more. And she was like, you know what? They're right. I am good at the net. I should be coming into the net more. And had success doing that in Miami. And it made me wonder if you ever heard something like that from. From an outside source, not somebody in your inner circle. Was that were people. I mean, I imagine people were always throwing out, you know, because everybody thinks that they're the expert. Right. Or the. Yeah, yes, totally. Did you have any situations like that?

Kim Clijsters (19:01)

I did. I did. I would. It's not that it happened often, but there were definitely moments where at the back of the court or just at times where I felt like, you know, there's always a few people in the stands that, you know, you feel are really on your side and are showing the energy and are verbal at times, but they understand you. Like, sometimes you can just feel that. And so I would. There were times at the US Open, like, on the side of the court, I'm like, hey, like, where should I serve?

Blair Henley (19:27)

And they would be like, just go

Kim Clijsters (19:28)

down the T. I'm like, okay, I got you. And then I hit like a good serve or like a non returnal, and I would look at them and be like, gotcha. And they're like, yeah, let's go. And then. Yeah, it's just little things like that. Like, it's just fun to play with that a little bit. But it's also, I don't know, like, you absorb energy from people too, right? Like, when you're out there playing and it just kind of keeps you.

Blair Henley (19:51)

Yeah.

Kim Clijsters (19:52)

To me, it was like a fun and playful way to interact with the fans. But then at the same time also, like, it also helped me to be a little bit more relaxed and to kind of have fun a little bit out there, too.

Blair Henley (20:03)

Yeah. And that was. That was another thing that Coco said she felt like in Miami. And again, it's. It's essentially a home tournament for her, but she said she was able to have more fun, be a little looser, and that led to trusting her game more, which. That's something we've talked about, right? It's. She has the ability. It just, again, you can sort of see the gears grinding when she's out on court in terms of thinking about what she should be doing and that it's so hard to play at the highest level when that is in the back of your mind. So seeing her be able to sort of let go of some of that in real time was also really cool, right?

Kim Clijsters (20:40)

Very. Jada and I were watching the match together. She was home for the weekend from her school, and it was so fun to see her, like, Coco's brothers in the player's box, like, cheering and standing up. And I think when she went up a break in the second and just like, how verbal, like, even from the start in the first set already. And so Jada and I were laughing at, you know, kind of thinking about, like, her little brothers, you know, like, on the side of the basketball court where you can be very vocal. And like, sometimes I'm like, telling them to just keep it quiet because, like, I still think tennis, right, like, tennis is to see a little bit and

Blair Henley (21:16)

bring it down a notch.

Kim Clijsters (21:17)

So I'm like, boys, like, it's okay. Like, you don't have to, like, start trash talking and you don't need to do all that. Like, it's fine. And so just seeing, like, Coco's brothers was. Was very, very fun to watch in Sweden. But, yeah, definitely, I think Coco, you know, I think and Sabalenka's mindset Is I think, where a lot of players are. Are trying to get. But I think you can only get there when. When you experience all the different things that come with that, right? The losses, the pain, the frustration, all the negatives help you to get to that deeper level of, okay, I'm gonna go for it, right? Like, I'm gonna. That match point that we saw against Rebakkin and the finals of Indian Wells, like, to me, is like, the perfect example of her, like, to where she is today, like, to seeing the confidence and to the belief that she has in herself and even when she's not playing her well or she's making a few errors, like, she has that perfect balance between being very locked in, aggressive with her game but calm in her head. And I think that's like, that level. And we see it with IGA a little bit, right? Like, she can be aggressive, and the intensity is great, but at the same time, sometimes the head gets to that, too, where you get frustrated. And so there's a really fine line between learning about yourself and going through all the details, you know, to become a more calmer, in control tennis player in your head, but still be very physical and aggressive when it comes to your. Your game style.

Blair Henley (22:56)

Another player who made some headlines in Miami maybe didn't play tennis. She wanted to play, but Amanda Anissimova went ahead and split with her coach, Hendrik Bleasehowers. I'm sure I'm saying that wrong. Is. Is he Belgian?

Kim Clijsters (23:10)

Kim? He's Dutch, but he lives there, so he. He. I got to know him when he started as a coach in my academy that I used to have there. He's still in Bree in my hometown. I think he lives with his wife and his daughter Nora. He's always been a coach, and I always said, I think I would really have enjoyed having him on the sideline because he's somebody who makes you feel like you're the only player for him. Right. And the confidence that he gives you. And he is. He lives for his player during those times and that he works with you, and that's, I think, a great skill and very passionate about his job and about doing everything that you need to do to have the best results. And I do think he came into Amanda's career at the perfect time to really help her, you know, build confidence as a player, but also outside, right, because it's connected. And so I think, yeah, the two of them, like, I actually texted him when I read the news and texted him about, you know, how great of A ride they had together. And so, yeah, they ended everything on a good note and with a lot of respect for each other and gratitude for what they achieved together. And we'll see where that will take him. I know we have a young Belgian, Yeleen Van Droma, who won the US Open last year, who's a great player, who's looking for a coach or who is without her coach. So who knows? There might be like a little. Because she did hit with him in my academy too. So that might be a nice little pair up coming up, and then we'll see what will happen. Maybe a Wim or somebody that could be a next kind of step for. For Amanda, but we'll see. There's a lot of. A lot of good coaches out there, but we'll see if that's. We'll see anytime soon. We'll figure it out. We'll hear it.

Blair Henley (25:14)

Yes, for sure. For sure. The timing had a lot of people going in that direction for Amanda, but I think this is a good example because I didn't know of Rick prior to him working with Amanda, and she reached two Grand Slam finals, won a couple thousand titles, rose to number three in the world. So it's a good reminder that, yes, on one hand, it's great, you know, to have someone who has a resume, you know, this long of top, top players, but there are a lot of coaches out there who probably have something to offer at the pro level if given the chance.

Kim Clijsters (25:50)

Definitely. And also, every player is looking for something different. And I think for me personally, and that's different for everybody. Like, I also needed to have somebody with me because it's basically. It's like a marriage. Right. Like, without the physical contact.

Blair Henley (26:07)

Thank you. Clarifying.

Kim Clijsters (26:08)

Yes. Just to make that clear. But it's, you know, you. You literally spend, you know, every hour of the day almost with, you know, with this person. You're on the flight together, you're having breakfast together, you're going to dinner together and everything in between, like, it's so having somebody who can. Who you can have fun with, who you can relate to, who you can. A lot of times I feel like for women, I'm not saying for guys, a lot of times I think that there is a different approach, but that is very important that you have somebody with you who doesn't make you feel like you have more pressure or you, you know, who. Who. Yeah. Who just makes you feel like you get more stressed because you want to achieve something and you want to create. Everybody's different like that. But I always felt like I wanted somebody who, you know, knew about tennis. Right. Like that's how I started with Wim. Like Wim was my hitting coach. Like we were friends for when we were 11 or 12 years old and we would practice together and so we had fun together on the tour. We'd laugh, we could joke, we could talk about anything and everything. And I think that's important to like, for anybody to not forget is like how important. Having somebody who you can relate to, who can, yeah. But also has the emotional, I think capability and communication skills to help you through the tougher times on the road as well. So there's, you know. Well, it's not easy to find a coach that has all those things. There's only a few that can really bring a player from a young age to the higher level.

Blair Henley (27:40)

If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently?

Kim Clijsters (27:43)

Would we go to bed at a

Blair Henley (27:44)

consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With sleep score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions and sleep duration. Then every morning it combines these factors into an easy to understand score from 1 to 100. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from okay to very high. Know your sleep score with Apple Watch iPhone 11 or later required. That brings us to our next topic. That former world number seven, David Goffin is going to be enjoying his final year on tour. He put out this very dramatic announcement video letting us know that this would be his last last season on tour. A fellow Belgian, of course, Kim. I don't know what was your relationship like with Gofin?

Kim Clijsters (28:34)

I've got to know him pretty well over the last few years. I, I think he's, you know, he comes across as, he's actually really funny. He's a sense of, he comes across as a little bit of an introvert I think and a little bit of a shy guy. But yeah, he's very, very funny and, and it's been really nice to get to know him and to, to get to know his sense of humor and, and you know, of course like over the last few years like he's had a lot that he's had to deal with and fighting that kind of like, okay, I'm going to push through and see if I can get my ranking back up and see if I can get some bigger results again. And it's been hard but at the same time he's had such an amazing career and just looking back to in Belgium, right, Like being from Belgium and seeing the impact that he's had on a lot of the kids and younger boys in the country because he wasn't the strongest, he wasn't the tallest player, he didn't have the best or the fastest serve, but he was. He's such a beautiful player to watch, and his technique and his movement, his timing. So, yeah, definitely a big inspiration to a lot of the younger kids in Belgium. But, yeah, when I saw the. The video, I was like, oh, my God. Like, that's, you know, a chapter that's going to close. And it's. It's. It's part of it, right? Like, you see these players that you have watched since they first came on tour, and then, you know, they're deciding to call it quits, and it's a little bit emotional, but at the same time, knowing what I know now and knowing, you know, the tennis family that you can fall back on when you stop playing is so incredibly big and really exciting to see what will be next for him.

Blair Henley (30:17)

I can't remember, Kim, did you announce that you would be retiring in advance or you just were done and said, I'm done?

Kim Clijsters (30:25)

No, I did so the first time. That's why, like, I really hesitated to come back after I had Jada, because I had this, like, farewell in, you know, tournaments, and I played my last match in Belgium in this, you know, the sports palace that I mentioned earlier and had a. Had a goodbye, and with all the tears and the drama. Right. And then, like, a few years later, you know, I decided to come back and I was like, wait, Like. Like, that looks so weird. Like, I did that. I had all these people, like, come and, you know, say my last goodbye. And then. So that did make me feel a little bit hesitant about this, you know, coming back and making it official. But, yeah, it is. It is not easy to, you know, life on tour, and you don't know how your emotions are going to work out or your, you know, your goals and your. Yeah, you just kind of follow it. And I do think that David is definitely finished with, you know, after. When he finishes the season, and he. They just. Just had a baby daughter. And so he's on to the next chapter in his life. But he's still very much involved in the tennis in Belgium, and the video was recorded in his home club in Diege, and so the roots are very strong, which is exciting to see.

Blair Henley (31:40)

Yeah, I was just thinking about just the announcement in advance and thinking of people like Danielle Collins, who, obviously, she has some injury issues right now, but. But not retired. Serana Kirstea who this is allegedly her last season, plays some of the best tennis of her career. There's a lot that can happen over the course of a season.

Kim Clijsters (32:00)

So there is, there is a lot that can happen. But I also, I remember saying it to the media that I was gonna stop after, you know, that, that year. And they were like, why? Like, I just felt. I also didn't feel like I could hold it in. You know, maybe it's just also my personality to just be like, say whatever was on my mind. Kind of like, this is like, I'm dealing with this and it' not for attention. It was more just like, I just don't want to keep that in. Like, it's a big deal for me. And, and like, why would I not share that?

Blair Henley (32:28)

Yeah. And giving yourself probably a mental finish line, too. Yes, I would think would be helpful.

Kim Clijsters (32:33)

Yeah, very much so.

Blair Henley (32:35)

All right, moving on now to a story that broke a couple of days ago. Ben Rothenberg reported in his substack bounces that the WTA is looking to relocate the WTA Finals at the end of the. Its contract in Saudi Arabia. In Riyadh, where it's been the last two years, there's one more WTA Finals there this year in November. But they are looking at Charlotte, North Carolina as one of the possibilities. And Kim, you actually were in Charlotte last week as sort of, you know, part of the, I guess, what do we want to call it, meeting of the minds as they try to make the decision on how to move forward here.

Kim Clijsters (33:17)

Here. Right. It was my first time in Charlotte and it was a. A very kind of impressive room of people that I feel like are very passionate about sports, but also about kind of bringing tennis to the Charlotte area. And yeah, just really enjoyed kind of getting to meet a lot of the people that are interested in. I know the Charlotte Sports foundation is, is very much behind it. And so we'll see where, where it heads to the WTA. You know, know, Porsche was there and just to be able to talk about or get to know a little bit the area, looking at venues. But then at the same time, you know, there's still some other cities in the running as well. I think there's another American city, another European city in the running. So we don't know. I don't know what those are, and they didn't, didn't share that with me. But it is exciting to me. The WTA finals are so special. And also I grew up with a dad and I mentioned that in the room. Like, I grew up with a dad who played World cup soccer for Belgium. And so for him, like, he called the WTA finals as his World cup, like, this is the best players, the eight best players. And so from when I, you know, 2002, I think was the first time I won it, but I think I played, I also played in Madison Square Garden one time. And just to be able to play in those kind of venues where, you know, the Knicks were playing, the Lakers were playing, like, literally the, the day after, like the day before we started playing, the Lakers still had a game the night before, and we were able to go watch the games. And it was just a really cool experience to see that, you know, we got to, as, you know, now I'm talking like early 2000s, that as women and that tennis was such a, you know, again, like a front runner when it comes to bringing women's sports to these incredible venues where a lot of the guys and men's and most famous sports in the world were holding some of their biggest events. So that was really fun to be a part of and I think would be incredible to bring, bring tennis, especially with seeing where, you know, the American tennis is at the moment. And, and I think we have three Americans in the top 10 just to see, yeah, American tennis being brought back to, or the WT Finals being brought back to, to, to American soil is something that I would be super excited about and I think a lot of the players would really enjoy having it there. And it has nothing to do with things didn't go well in Rehaut or anything, but I think it was just the end of the contest track there and, and then it was time for a change. Yeah.

Blair Henley (35:46)

And just a reminder, the last time there was actually a, a chunk of years where the WTA Finals was in the US was I believe, 2002-2005 in Los Angeles. And who was the winner of the 2005 WTA Finals, but our very own Kim Kleisters. So that's kind of cool, Kim, that. And, and listen, so those were in

Kim Clijsters (36:09)

Doha, I think, right? Like, I think 2005, I won in Doha. I think 2000, 2002 and 2003, I was able to win in LA, I think, but.

Blair Henley (36:16)

Oh, perfect. Well, you would know better than I would. I apologize. This is, I do remember though, on the road for weeks, is that you get your years messed up. But yeah, early, early 2000s.

Kim Clijsters (36:27)

Right. It was an incredible feeling to be able to be a part of the best eight. Right. Like at the start of the season when you set your goals. Right. It's. It's you don't want to think too far ahead to that stage of the, of, of of the year or of the season. But, but you know, that's kind of a goal when you get close, you're like, okay, let's, you know, the WTA Finals and is where, you know, I would like to kind of be a part of at the end of the season. And it's kind of the crown jewel of our, of our season. And it feels very, very special. Like it's a different feeling even, I think than getting to the later stages of a Grand Slam. Like if you get to the Grand Slam quarterfinal, semifinals, like that's what it's like to get to the WTA Finals. And from the first match onwards you're playing, you know, the biggest, your biggest rivals and the highest ranked players. So it's a super high level. Women's tennis is in a place where, you know, we have some incredible rivalries and the level is just going up and up. And I think last year Rubakian actually had the highest prize money purse in women's tennis. I think it was like 5.2 million, I think, or sure was, yeah. So really exciting to see and seeing tennis growing and, and again, like I said, they all seemed very passionate about it and, and bringing tennis to, to Charlotte. So we'll see if that's where it's going to end up happening. But nothing's been signed, nothing has been decided. So I'm just as curious as, as

Blair Henley (37:56)

everybody else and, and shout out to WTA Finals 2022 in Fort Worth. Yeehaw. I For those of us who were there, fantastic. They just didn't have a long enough Runway to promote the tournament because they didn't know where it was gonna be. But I remember the night of the finals, I was told that there were people at the box office asking, how can we get our tickets for next year? And so it was just sort of a reminder. Obviously there was no next year in Fort Worth, but a reminder of the fact that women's tennis is such an incredible show and an incredible product. Some people just don't know that. And so it's a matter of getting people in the door to be like, wow, this is incredible. And then, you know, you potentially have fans for life. So, so let's hope that wherever it goes. And we've seen that in Riyadh as well, the people who have come and have maybe never seen women's tennis before, I mean, they're amazed at the show and even the arena and the purple lights and it's a show, and that's a really cool piece of it.

Kim Clijsters (38:58)

And for the players, it feels like that, too, right? Like, it's more special. You get treated a little bit differently. The locker rooms are different. It's not like showing out at Grand Slam where there's, like, a hundred bags in the locker room, and it's just a little bit more personal. And, yeah, just the details are cared for very well. So it's an exciting event to be a part of. Big honor.

Blair Henley (39:18)

All right, one last headline for you, Kim. I forgot to add this to the rundown, but I don't know if you've heard this, but there is a tennis academy in Indiana. So it's one where the kids can go and board. They do their schooling there, and then they train. They are offering a class where you can learn how to do the splits. Like Kim Kleister's. No. Yes. Yes. I. I actually, I sent. Because I wanted to surprise you with this. I sent Ella and techie Sean a picture. Is that not the coolest thing?

Kim Clijsters (39:55)

This is at that academy in.

Blair Henley (39:57)

In Indiana on red clay, too.

Kim Clijsters (39:59)

Wow.

Blair Henley (40:00)

On red clay. And they are learning how to. I mean, listen, I should sign up because I am the least flexible person. You can do that. Don't sign up like Tara Groin. But there you go, Kim. Your legacy in living on. In Indiana on the red clay.

Kim Clijsters (40:21)

Well, listen, this is where it all started for me was not in this academy, but on the red clay in Belgium, and. And that's where I learned how to slide. And then I just started to do it on hardcourts as well. Like, just went for it on different surfaces. But that is so exciting. It's such an important part of a tennis player's movement.

Blair Henley (40:44)

What are you laughing at? April Fool's camp.

Kim Clijsters (40:49)

Oh. Oh, my God.

Blair Henley (40:52)

Kim's never gonna forgive me for that.

Kim Clijsters (40:54)

It. You guys, I was like, that doesn't look like an American. That looks like freaking Austrian tennis, like, of Indiana. Oh, my God. See, Like, I'm so easily.

Blair Henley (41:11)

I'm sweating. Just call me Danielle Collins. Just April Fool's pranking Martina Never to loma on the 10th.

Kim Clijsters (41:19)

Can I say that was stupid

Blair Henley (41:22)

if you haven't seen that clip, it was a classic.

Kim Clijsters (41:24)

No, that was really good, guys.

Blair Henley (41:26)

Blair. Oh, my gosh. Blair texted us yesterday and said, hey, can you guys make a fake photo of people of kids and a teacher doing the splits?

Kim Clijsters (41:37)

I was like, really? Oh, my gosh. I was just going with the story.

Blair Henley (41:43)

April Fool's. I'm also the worst. Oh, my gosh. That was Amazing. Well, shout out to Sean and Ella for the support and our friend of the pod, Megan, for. For planting the. The seed of the idea.

Kim Clijsters (41:55)

Great job, guys.

Blair Henley (41:57)

Woo. All right, well, listen, I though on that note, Kim, should we ever find ourselves in the same place, just like I need some hip mobility, please help. I'm so impeachable.

Kim Clijsters (42:11)

That was one of the points I was going to come to, like doing it on hardcore, then going full split. Like, when you're 40, almost 43, you do carry the consequences of that impact. That's where I was. So, yes, definitely feel it.

Blair Henley (42:28)

Oh, my gosh. All right.

Kim Clijsters (42:29)

Good one, Blair. Good one.

Blair Henley (42:31)

Damn it.

Kim Clijsters (42:31)

Thank you.

Blair Henley (42:32)

Damn it.

Kim Clijsters (42:32)

Thank you. Listen, it is the 31st when we record. What is it today? The 30th.

Blair Henley (42:38)

That's true. It is not the first.

Kim Clijsters (42:40)

Yeah. So it shouldn't even count.

Blair Henley (42:43)

We're airing this on the first, so. But no, you are not. You are not fully on your toes today because it is not April Fool's today.

Kim Clijsters (42:51)

But listen, I don't even know half of the time what the date is anyway, so. Girl, same got me. Anyway, if it was on the first.

Blair Henley (42:59)

Amazing. All right, should we move on to Kim Formation?

Kim Clijsters (43:03)

Sure.

Blair Henley (43:03)

My favorite word to say. All right.

Kim Clijsters (43:06)

Oh, man, I'm sore from laughing here.

Blair Henley (43:11)

I feel like we covered a little bit of this, but in terms of the tennis that you saw in Miami, whether it was the Sabalenka Rybakina rivalry or the final between Savalenka and Goff, was there anything on the X's and O's side that you wanted to point out that you saw in Miami? And it could be from the men's side as well. Obviously, Sinner was just an absolute demolition job. Hasn't. Didn't drop a set in Miami or Indian Wells.

Kim Clijsters (43:40)

I do. I think for me, one of the biggest things that was very noticeable to me was, and again, we mentioned it earlier, but was the mindset of Sabalenka. I feel like she's reached a different level and you get to that by winning matches and confidence, but also by still building on your game and Max Mirny being added onto her team, like the drop shots that she's adding on, coming into the net more often, you know, being happy off court. Like, I think it all carries through the. You know, she's gone through a lot in her life, in her career where we, you know, we know about the loss of her father, a former boyfriend at the Miami tournament, those kind of things. And they, you know, it's almost like it's almost hard to say or to know that you have to go through some really hard times to learn about yourself on a deeper level. And it's almost. I think every player wants to get to that level where she is now. And I think for me, when I compare it to when I was younger and when I came back from having Jada, and in that time I lost my father and just going through life and having these. These experiences in life that make you realize, like, okay, like, there's. We only have one life. You have to go through it and. And you want to take it on, right in 10 is the worst thing you can do is to wait for your opponent to make the mistakes. Like, you want to have the control coming from your racket. And. And I think she's at that level where, you know, earlier this year, like at the Australian Open, she lost to Rubakian in the finals of. Of the Australian Open. But seeing where she's at now is such a mental advantage going into, you know, the next, you know, the next few months and then later in this year when she gets back to hardcore. So I'm really interested to see if she can carry this on the clay courts. But I feel like once you have that in you, it's like, it's like stored on your hard drive. It's like she can fall back on to knowing, okay, I'm getting frustrated, but this is what I need to do to stay calm. Like, I keep those moments very short where the negative kind of thoughts, it's not like they go away ever, but you just are able to control them a little bit better. And she's reached that level, I feel like, where, yeah, she just has the confidence, has the physical capability, the tactical, still keeps working on everything else that maybe you could have said were her weaknesses. I think she's moving better than ever before. I think, yeah, she's bringing touch to her game. Right. Like, we see her putting in some slices, some drop shots, drop volleys. Like, I think she's, yeah, really, really building on, you know, one step at a time on everything that she has to. And to become a very complete player. And then add the. The almost unbeatable kind of energy that she has over her is. Is very, very impressive to watch. To me, that's what stood out the most. Even, you know, when Coco won the second set or like, you can just. And the crowd was definitely behind Coco. In the past, you. You would have seen her. Her being a little bit more vocal or frustrated to. To her side and to her team. But now she has that calmness over her, which is what you, you know, saw Serena do for so many times, and. And so really, really exciting to see when a player gets into that mindset and that flow.

Blair Henley (47:09)

Do you think the tone of that rivalry, the Sabalenka Rybakana rivalry, has shifted? I think it's just so funny that as Ted is fake fans, we tend to hit the panic button. Like, after the WTA finals, after the Australian Open final is like, oh, my gosh, R is gonna be dominating for the next two years. And then just a month later, Sabalenka has totally changed the narrative.

Kim Clijsters (47:34)

Yeah, I think for now. Right. And that's the thing, like, in tennis, you know, on grass, it can change again. Who knows? Right? Like, so. So you never know how quickly it can change. But I do think that. That this. This kind of level or extra level of mindset and focus that she has, and. And again, like, we. I think we've talked about her, you know, in the last few episodes is. Is her ability to step away from the sport and be. Be so fired up and fully charged, to come back when she's playing her matches and. And her tournaments is. Is something that's really working for her. And I think a lot of players can maybe use that example, but. But I feel like from her side, it comes from a very natural way. Like, it's how she's feeling, whereas if players try to copy it, it doesn't always come from the right kind of feeling. It's like, oh, I'm going to try to do what she's doing, but it's maybe not intentionally coming fully from within. So with her, you can see that she's found that balance at the moment. And again, happy off the court, which is something that was super important for me as well. Like, you know, in 2005, like, I, you know, had just broken up a few months earlier with Leighton, and it just. I was in a. In a mindset where I was happy, but at times, it was a little bit confusing, too. But, you know, seeing each other again for the first time, like in Indian Wells and in Miami, it just. There's a lot of things that go on off court that you. In your private life that you don't realize at times as a fan and that they can throw you off and everything, but it's. It's great to see you're in that flow and in that mindset.

Blair Henley (49:14)

You do not have to respond to this. But outside looking in, I cannot imagine anything more satisfying than having a breakup. And then the first time you're in the same place as your ex, you just dominate, become the second woman ever to win the sunshine double. I think that is so impressive just. Just because you have to. You have to put blinders on because, you know, there are a lot of emotions, I'm sure. And, you know, even if you're in a good place, as you mentioned, it was weird. And so being able to sort of put the blinders on, stick to your routines, get your same bathroom stall. And when. When the.

Kim Clijsters (49:50)

Even more right in those kind of situations, like, it's. It is a little bit different and it's. It's personal. And I was very lucky to have my mom. My mom there to kind of, you know, help me deal with some of those, you know, emotions. And. And. But it is like, it's a part of it. And especially when you're so young and you kind of go through everything, right? Your first boyfriend, the first breakup, everything that comes with that. And it's. You know, we talked about Saba Lanka and some of her, like, private things that go on, they're not private anymore, and you have to learn how to deal with that, too. And so it can be challenging. But to me, tennis, a lot of times was also my psychologist, because it gave me, you know, I was doing something that I enjoyed doing, that I was good at, that I could kind of focus on, and I had my routines and I could fall back on that, and I really, yeah, really thrived in those kind of four weeks there.

Blair Henley (50:45)

All right, before we shift to rec room, I would love to just get your bird's eye view thoughts, and we're going to hopefully dive deeper into this, maybe even next week. Hopefully, we'll be having your former coach, Carl on the show to dive deeper into this topic, but we're switching from. From hard court to clay court, unless you're a South American. One of the Argentines last night was like, I never stopped playing on clay.

Kim Clijsters (51:09)

No, they look. They look for the dart everywhere.

Blair Henley (51:11)

Australian Open.

Kim Clijsters (51:13)

But.

Blair Henley (51:13)

But what are some of the biggest challenges and maybe how are you adjusting things in practice to get ready for that transition?

Kim Clijsters (51:21)

So, to me, the biggest challenge was. Was movement, right? Is. Is. Is being the timing behind the ball. Like, we. We were taught early on in Belgium that you slide into your shot, right, which is something that is so different from what you do on the hardcore. So for some people, like Justine, for instance, it was a very natural way to play tennis. For me, it kind of felt like my timing was off. So now I feel like a Lot of women don't do that. Like, they just, they play almost very hardcore tennis. Like on clay when I was younger, it was, you know, getting the movement under control. It was doing a lot of mini tennis drills and where you learn, even without a racket, you just learn, you throw the ball, you learn how to slide forward, sideways, diagonal. A lot of footwork drills. And then also just the consistency, right? Like, I knew a lot of times, like, if I had a, a certain shot, let's say an inside out forehand, and I could run around my backhand and, you know, nine out of 10, I knew I was either going to hit a winner or get, you know, a shot where I could come in, hit a drive volley or a volley into the open court and win the point. Whereas on clay, you have to just be more patient and you have to realize that you have to build your points and structure your points a little bit differently and longer. And a lot of times in my mind, that was also not the easiest approach. Again, learned a lot from working with my coach, Carl, who we will hopefully have on next week, but also guys like Darren Cahill, who worked with Leighton, and not so much even, I think, on the clay court there, but just the mindset of like building that consistency because he was such a kind, I would say, consistent player and kept the rally going and, and was very much built on like, not making a mistake. Just doing a lot of two against ones, right? Two players and, and you just build a lot of, yeah, a lot of grit. I feel like where you're playing against two against ones, it's very frustrating. Like it was for me as my, like how I want to play as a tennis player, it could be very, very frustrating. And, but then seeing now, you know, a lot of the, the surfaces have changed as well. I think a lot of the, the, the clay courts are faster, so. But it is a really fun time and I always like to have some change kind of in a season. So I always loved the first couple of year, a couple of weeks of the clay court season at, at, you know, at the French Open. Although I had some of my best results early on in my career on, on, on the clay, I never really truly felt like I was playing my best tennis and I was still beating a lot of really good players, but just never really felt free like where, you know, so, yeah, so that was a lot of times from the moment that I even don't even think I felt that on grass a lot of times. But from the moment that I stepped on the hard Courts in America. After Wimbledon, I kind of felt like, okay, this is where my tennis and my movement stands out to me the best.

Blair Henley (54:29)

You are not alone in that, for sure.

Kim Clijsters (54:32)

Well, that's good.

Blair Henley (54:33)

Well, I'm excited to sort of dive deeper into the sort of the. The chess. It's. It's from. From what I hear from a lot of players and what they tell me, they describe it much more sort of like chess, because you have to work the point more than you do naturally on. On a faster surface.

Kim Clijsters (54:50)

And I played, you know, back in the day, too. Like, I played with. With natural gut. Right. The. The. And so that changes too, right, with the strings, if it's a little bit more humid out, like, the strings get, you know, a lot thicker, heavier, the control, like. So it will be really fun to talk about. About that with Carl and. And just. Just all the things that, you know, the mindset behind him teaching me what that was like, and. And he has some fun anecdotes and. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Um, it's not official. Fully. Fully set up yet, but hopefully we can get him on next. Next Tuesday. Tuesday.

Blair Henley (55:23)

Good stuff. So tennis nerds unite. Come. Come listen to that episode whenever it happens. And I'm gonna get all the dirt on Kim from when she was young. All the tea.

Kim Clijsters (55:32)

Yeah.

Blair Henley (55:33)

Oh, yeah, I'm sure there is none.

Kim Clijsters (55:34)

There is a lot.

Blair Henley (55:36)

All right, so heading on now to rec room. Kim, what is your recommendation for the week?

Kim Clijsters (55:42)

So, mine is knowing that we're going into, you know, a little bit of the. The warmer climates and with my teenage. Teenage daughter in the house as a basketball player I had saved. Her name is Kelsey Poulter. If I have it correctly. She's a online sports youth, I think, nutritionist, and she comes up with really, really great. This is her. I don't know if you can see her face, really, but she's super fun to watch because she gives you a lot of really good tips and about pregame snacks that you can find in the grocery stores that are clean, that are good to have with you. So I always enjoy, like, her info that she. That she puts out. And she, you know, she's young and enthusiastic, passionate about her job, so I enjoy watching her. So her name is Kelsey Poulter. P O O U L T E R. And really enjoy what she's putting out there.

Blair Henley (56:44)

Yeah, man, that is. I mean, I should go look at that as soon as we finished, too.

Kim Clijsters (56:50)

It's like.

Blair Henley (56:51)

Well, yeah. I mean, especially on the road, like, I find that is one of the toughest things for me when I'm, when I'm working on a tournament site because my entire life schedule, I'm not going to bed at the right time. I am not sleeping enough. I sometimes am just grabbing whatever is available because I have five minutes to eat. It's not great on the nutrition front. So I will be. I'll be checking.

Kim Clijsters (57:14)

Listen, Blair, I would love to, love to have a perimenopause menopause doctor on our podcast one time. Might not have a lot to do with hitting tennis balls, but that would be.

Blair Henley (57:25)

Yeah.

Kim Clijsters (57:26)

Something that I would love to do and ask questions just so that we, you know.

Blair Henley (57:31)

Yeah.

Kim Clijsters (57:32)

Because we're about the same age, right?

Blair Henley (57:34)

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. The more, the more, you know, we can do like a full public service episode of. Of Love Hall. Good stuff. Well, we'll.

Kim Clijsters (57:43)

What is your. Yours?

Blair Henley (57:45)

Mine is. I love it. You are helping people with their lives. I am like, helping them accessorize. So my mind today is these little earrings that I'm wearing that I get more compliments on probably than any other piece of jewelry. They're like little mini spiky earrings.

Kim Clijsters (58:02)

Oh.

Blair Henley (58:03)

And they see. I don't know if you can see the. But they're from Melinda Maria and these come in all different sizes. I, I can't do the big, giant spiky ones, but these little tiny spiky ones. As somebody who is not at all edgy but like, likes to try to be a little bit edgy.

Kim Clijsters (58:19)

Right.

Blair Henley (58:19)

These are my little, my, my little sprinkle of edge Kim on my ears.

Kim Clijsters (58:25)

My little Melinda.

Blair Henley (58:27)

Melinda Maria is the brand.

Kim Clijsters (58:29)

I'm going to look her up.

Blair Henley (58:30)

And they have a really great assortment of jewelry that looks nice but isn't a gazillion dollars. And so I shower in these and everything and I get a ton of compliments on them. So if you two want to be slightly edgy, you can.

Kim Clijsters (58:49)

Don't we all once in a while. Right?

Blair Henley (58:51)

Once in a while. If you want to bring out your edgy side, I've got just the thing for you. But that was great stuff, Kim. Thanks so much.

Kim Clijsters (58:59)

Thank you.

Blair Henley (58:59)

Also, shout out to Carolyn Garcia and her husband expecting their first baby. That was also good news.

Kim Clijsters (59:05)

Yes.

Blair Henley (59:05)

This week they're doing a good job with their podcast as well. Tennis Insider Club, which she started when she was a player, which I always think is. Is great. I love a player side hustle.

Kim Clijsters (59:15)

You know, I think Petra Kuda also had twins.

Blair Henley (59:19)

Yeah, I know.

Kim Clijsters (59:20)

I didn't know she was expecting twins. So yeah. Exciting.

Blair Henley (59:24)

Oh man. Best of luck to them. Prayers up for Petra and her husband.

Kim Clijsters (59:29)

Well, have the best time there. Look forward to watching. Do they have a drink there? Do they have a like a frose or.

Blair Henley (59:36)

No, I do not drink. Did you see that? I tried the frose cake.

Kim Clijsters (59:39)

I saw that.

Blair Henley (59:40)

Yeah. Maddie Keys told me in a post match interview. She's like, if you try the frose, get yourself some water because that thing is strong. She was not wrong. I took one sip and I was like, hoo hoo. So like tickle your toes? No, but it was a delight. It was my one sort of relaxing night that I had and tried the froze because I'm an intrepid reporter for Love all. But no, no sign. Well, I actually Kim, I take that back. This tournament does have the Planter's punch. Have you ever heard of that?

Kim Clijsters (60:15)

I have not. But listen, I expect the video, maybe not.

Blair Henley (60:22)

The Planter's punch is like that's maybe out of my alcoholic content like league. Not because I. This makes it sound like I'm drinking alcohol all the time. That is not a thing that's happening. But I will say the fans here are having the time of their life. So like it's this. It's a place where you can hear the champagne popping.

Kim Clijsters (60:44)

Okay.

Blair Henley (60:45)

And Francis Tiafo, as you might imagine, he's like, I love it. Love that. I can hear you guys, you know, popping your. Popping your bubbles. So it's. It's a part.

Kim Clijsters (60:53)

Sounds fun, Houston.

Blair Henley (60:54)

Okay. On that note, thank you all so much for joining us for another episode of Love all new episodes every Wednesday. We would love it so much if you liked and subscribed on YouTube. Make sure you follow us on all of our social platforms at LoveAll podcast. I finally got that down. 11 episodes later. And Kim, I'll talk to you next week.

Kim Clijsters (61:13)

See you next week.

Blair Henley (61:24)

Morning run. Level it up. TikTok has pacing tips, breathing drills, recovery hacks from 5K to marathon. Real runners, real progress. Train smarter, not longer. Download TikTok now.