ROGER FEDERER & PAT RAFTER Joins Served Live at The 2025 Laver Cup

Summary

Served with Andy Roddick: ROGER FEDERER & PAT RAFTER Join Served Live at The 2025 Laver Cup

Podcast: Served with Andy Roddick
Episode Date: September 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This special live episode, recorded at the 2025 Laver Cup in San Francisco, brings together host Andy Roddick, co-host Jon Wertheim, tennis legend Pat Rafter, and the architect of the Laver Cup himself, Roger Federer. The conversation dives deep into the unique atmosphere of Laver Cup, the evolving surface and strategies, the bridging of tennis generations, and how the event has grown in identity and significance—highlighted by candid reflections and inside stories from some of the sport's most respected voices.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. The Magic of Laver Cup: Venue & Atmosphere

• San Francisco as Host:
  The hosts praise the event's energy, with Andy Roddick calling the weather “air conditioner setting” and describing the Chase Center as world-class. Wertheim adds, “This has sort of the... religious feel to it... Great to have an event back here.” (02:17)
• Generational Bridging:
  Federer’s vision is discussed—connecting tennis legends with the new generation.

  “...if I personally could spend time with Bjorn Borg... Actually, it’s the little interactions, like maybe you meeting Yannick for the first time three days ago... that’s what I wanted.” — Roger Federer (66:27)

2. Team Insight & Strategy Analysis

• Court Conditions:
  The slow, gritty surface is a recurring theme affecting both tactics and outcomes.

  “The court, it's low, the bounce is muted, it's slow, it's gritty... It has this check mechanism...” — Andy Roddick (03:17) “This court... doesn’t necessarily favour us in many ways. You want it fast.” — Pat Rafter (26:07)

• Statistical Deep Dives:
  The team discusses key player stats and matchups from day one, with Roddick noting the importance of winning a high percentage of second serve points—a telling metric for matches at this level (09:15, 09:52).

• Coaching Moments:
  Candid insights into captains’ advice are shared.

  “Andre had some very pointed, I think wise instruction for, for Alex Mickelson...” — Jon Wertheim (18:46)

3. Standout Performances & Young Talent

• Fonseca’s Rise:
  The breakout Brazilian is widely praised for firepower and character.

  “...he hit six forehands last night where the jaw drops... you can’t teach that kind of speed off the racket.” — Andy Roddick (37:05) “If he was your son, you’d be so bloody happy. ...All his attributes to me are pointing to one of the greats...” — Pat Rafter (38:11)

• Carlos Alcaraz’s Charisma & Play:
  Alcaraz impresses not just with his tennis, but with his presence.

  “Any questions? Well, I fuck it up. That easy volley that I missed after, you know, my partner made that run...” — Carlos Alcaraz, on his doubles error (46:12) “...Carlos walking in, said hello to every single person that was working at the event... addressed them in their native tongue every single day. We are lucky to have this kid...” — Andy Roddick (48:13)

4. Inside the Laver Cup: Team Dynamics & Camaraderie

• Pat Rafter on Coaching Team World:
  Rafter shares anecdotes about adapting to the team dynamic, referencing the deep investment players now have in the event.

  “What was totally unexpected for me was just a total and utter engagement of these players and how much this is so important to them...” (33:33) “You cannot teach these guys in three days how to hit a slice bloody backhand.” — Pat Rafter, on modern pros and the lost art of variety (32:55)

• Building Unity Without Borders:
  Strategies for team-building in a non-national team environment.

  “It might seem a weird thing for me to say as a sacrifice, but it sort of is sometimes when you become so selfish in your own world as a tennis player.” — Pat Rafter (36:10)

5. Federer: Origin, Impact, and Evolution of Laver Cup

(62:40–88:44) Federer Joins Live

• Genesis and Purpose:
  Federer details the drive to honor tennis legends and foster connections across generations.

  “In tennis, I feel we forget the legends of our sport. ...I said we gotta bring them in, maybe bring together for a week or a weekend...” (64:25)

• Event Longevity and Transition:
  Acknowledgment of early skepticism about the event’s viability post-Federer.

  “The questions are completely fair as well: Is the Laver Cup going to be successful post Roger...?” (70:32)

• Court Speeds & Tennis Evolution:
  Federer and Roddick call for surface variety, noting the homogenization of play.

  “It can’t be that he’s kick serving on the outside indoors against Casper Root... I feel like it should be a little bit more difficult to be able to do that.” — Roger Federer (83:45) “We need variation. Because then... Sinner or Alcaraz... will figure it out and it’s going to be more fun to watch.” — Andy Roddick (85:31)

• Life After Tennis:
  Federer reflects on family life, fitness routines, and lighter moments about “tightening up” and gala dress codes (86:45–88:15).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “The venue’s insane. Everything Federer does is just first class.” — Andy Roddick (01:38)

• “It’s just got a religious feel to it.” — Jon Wertheim (02:17)

• “12 days before Agassi retired, Fonseca was born. That’s humbling.”
  — Andy Roddick (07:46)

• “If no one comes to net, we’re not coming into the net. This is crap. Everyone’s getting past.”
  — Pat Rafter on the modern pass-happy game (32:36)

• “What you’re getting out there is real, guys... I can tell you 100% is genuine, and the guys are busting ass…”
  — Pat Rafter (35:46)

• “If he was your son, you’d be so bloody happy… All his attributes to me are pointing to one of the greats…”
  — Pat Rafter on Fonseca (38:07–38:14)

• “We forget the legends of our sport. We don't see them enough, we don't include them enough.”
  — Roger Federer, on the motivation behind the Laver Cup (64:25)

• “There was not going to be clowning around, giggling. ...When the ball is being hit, it needs to be hit with purpose and for a reason.”
  — Roger Federer, on the level of competition (67:53)

• “It was actually a selfish move, the most selfish move I ever did.”
  — Roger Federer, on wanting to meet other legends (66:36)

• “You ruined my life for a decade, and I was still emotional when I was watching it.”
  — Andy Roddick to Federer on Federer's retirement (73:34)

• “I think we'll figure it out.” — Roger Federer, on the return of surface variety (86:29)

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Segment Breakdown with Timestamps

• 00:59–23:30
  Opening rapport at the event, day one reflections, analysis of individual matchups, banter about team antics (e.g., sunglasses at night), and foreshadowing Pat Rafter’s arrival.

• 23:31–41:11
  Pat Rafter joins: Thoughts on Laver Cup prep, surface analysis, strategies, coaching involvement, and spotlight on players’ investment in the event.

• 62:40–88:44
  Roger Federer joins:

  • 64:04 – Federer on the genesis of Laver Cup
  • 66:27 – Connecting generations, networking legends
  • 70:00–73:00 – Event’s continued success post-Federer
  • 73:25 – Reflecting on retirement, Laver Cup as the final stage
  • 76:45 – Rafa’s injuries, the physical toll of elite tennis
  • 83:40 – On surface speeds, homogenization, and the need for variation
  • 86:45–88:15 – Federer on daily life and lighter banter about appearance

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Tone & Style

The conversation blends wit, expertise, and nostalgia, with Roddick's humor setting a relaxed, candid tone. Federer brings humility and vision, while Rafter and Wertheim provide a seasoned perspective on the unique demands of Laver Cup and modern tennis. The language alternates between technical breakdowns, heartfelt storytelling, and lighthearted ribbing.

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For Listeners—Why This Episode Matters

Even for those not in the room, this podcast is a rare confluence—hearing living legends unpack tennis's present and future, the challenges of team-building in an individual sport, and the lineage that makes tennis unique. Whether you’re a rookie or a longtime fan, this conversation captures the sport’s soul, its shifting landscapes, and the enduring drive to honor its past as much as its future.

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(Ads, intros, and other non-content sections are omitted.)

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hey, what's up?

[A]

Good. How are you? Nothing better. I mean, the weather, it feels like an air conditioner setting out here, doesn't it? Just. Just absolutely fantastic. We are served live. We are brought to you by service now. And we are excited to be right here at the Labor Cup. Producer Mike in the chair to my far left, John Wertheim, you know, from Tennis Channel. 60 Minutes in the middle. And we're pumped. Guys. What a first day here at the Labor Cup.

[C]

Got off to a good start, huh? Can we start? Maybe we talk before we get to the match? In a second.

[A]

A.

[C]

Can we just talk about these crowds which have been tremendous Friday afternoon, Guys, do you like the venue?

[A]

You like this building? The venue's insane. 1. Everything that this guy Federer does is just first class. Has to be amazing. Obviously. No, but I joke. We feel so lucky to be here and we feel so lucky that you all care about a dumb little, little show and that the tennis is. But. But as always, with every event, we can have stars like McEnroe and, and, and Laver and Bjorn Borg and Federer. The tennis is the most important piece. That's what brings community. That's what brings us all together. Exhibit 5972 here this week, right here in. In San Francisco. What do you think? J.W.

[C]

Yeah, it's. It's really true. This has sort of the. It's has like a religious feel to it. We were talking yesterday about how San Francisco great tennis market. Bay Area great tennis market. Great to have an event back here. Trivia. Who won the last professional tournament match played in San Francisco? You know that one? We looked it up yesterday. Andre Agassi.

[A]

Of course he did. Back Dead.

[C]

Yeah. Now he's back. So it's great that San Francisco can feast on tennis again. I'm curious, you played in here today, did you not?

[A]

Yeah, I. I did a clinic in here this morning early, before any. Any of the players were here. I got asked something that I've never been asked before going because, you know, you do enough of these clinics and, you know, the levels vary and, you know, you get kind of good at customer tennis and kind of leveling up, leveling down. I had a really nice gentleman come up to me before we started playing, and he goes, how do I hold the bat? It wasn't me and it wasn't Mike, shockingly, but I didn't think that was going to be. I was like, that's. This is not going to go well. This is not going to be the one. He actually held the bat correctly and did pretty well. But the, the court, it's low, the bounce is muted, it's slow, it's gritty. It's not doing you any favors when you're trying to redirect. Hit flat through the court. Right. It has this check mechanism, but something like, if. I don't know if any of you all have been to the glorious event in Indian Wells, that's a gritty court, but the air acts differently. Right. You can hit a kick serve and it gets up and away. It kind of sails away in the air. This is muted, so it's slow and it's low. Can create. Can create some problems.

[C]

You're not describing an Andy Roddick. I'm sure you got you through the guy who carries a bat and learning how to grip for the first time, but this is not your kind of core. But I think it's something to bear in mind. We're going to be talking about some of the matches from yesterday and previewing today. And just bear in mind this is a unique court service.

[A]

Let's get these. Let's get these highlights ready. But anyone. Anyone like Pat Rafter, like, the coolest guy ever? It's pretty good. He's going to. He's going to be joining us on Served here in a little bit, discussing day one and what. Yeah, let's. Let's set the stage first with a graphic. We have Team Europe leading three to one after day one. Yep. What were overall impressions? You know, I mean, it was the first match out of the gate. It was a slow, slow start for Mickelson, but then did a hell of a job battling back. It's. It's so important. Every point really matters. And I know we say that ad nauseam, but the only reason that that saying has lived through decades is because it's absolutely true. Right? Oh, it's a baby. So is it our kid?

[C]

He wanted a fast court.

[A]

She. She also doesn't like low and slow. Menshik put two points on the board, though, so props to him. He was, he was, he was player of the day yesterday for Team Europe. I thought Fonseca did an amazing job against Kaboli last night. So I talk about that. The court isn't doing much for like a flat ball through the middle. It's not doing much for a chip. It's not doing much for a kick serve. We saw rude kind of get decent looks at second serves, even off of that Opelka kick serve yesterday. If you can create something out of nothing and create pace off of what I call a dead ball, you will have success. Fonseca was unbelievable at that. He can create as much speed off of kind of a dead ball, slow ball, kind of create that speed mechanism as maybe anyone in the world not named Carlos or Sinner. Right? He was fantastic.

[C]

It's funny too, because not, not, not unlike Alcaraz, not a hugely imposing guy. And then you see that forehand in particular up close in person. Did anyone. I don't know if you guys were here yesterday. And just listen, apart from using your eyes, use your ears when this guy winds up and cracks that. We were laughing upstairs that Mencik won that match. Very entertaining match. Well played, backhand to backhand. He was the youngest player ever to win a match at Laver cup, and that distinction lasted about four hours because.

[A]

Then the 19 year old, the other.

[C]

Team came in one, but I thought that was also one of the beauties of Laver Cup. We talked Yesterday with John McEnroe about Rod Laver and his achievements. And Rod Laver, I believe age starts with an 8. Was. Was watching John McEnroe. Age starts with with a 6. Watching Roger Federer was there. And then we all get down to 19 year olds. So we really see sort of the. The chain of tennis.

[A]

But that's kind of the beauty of. That's kind of one. When the original intent of an event plays out the way that you wanted it to, right? With Rod Laver watching Fonseca and watching Carlos and his haircuts and watching Roger now being kind of the statesman of the game who's moved on past playing. That was the idea when he originally sold it to us, right? Was like, I want to honor the Greats that came before us create three days where fans can celebrate who came before us. We while also watching and being amazed by the current level of tennis.

[C]

Yeah, I mean it was spelled out. The 80 plus year old man from Australia watching the 19 year old born in 2006 from Brazil with Andre Agassi born, I believe in 1970 coaching. We got the range geographically and chronologically.

[A]

Time is undefeated. And I'm starting to feel it because I think maybe I get this wrong, but it's not by much. I think I heard Fonseca was born 12 days before Agassi retired. Yeah, correct. And Agassi played till he was 36. Just so we're clear, it wasn't as if he was one of a dingbat like me retire when he was 30, you know, so you remember 2006.

[C]

Wow. All right, we're going to go have a drink. That's, that's humbling.

[A]

Let's get the day one highlight born. He was born in 2006, so let's, let's roll day one highlights, guys. Let's get the highlights. Obviously Johnny Mac and Rod Laver starting us off, but right here, you look at Opelka hit that Kickstarter that's normally up and away. Rude gives himself speed space. That's a tough one to fight off. Even though Opelka wins this point. This is not the type of point that Opelka wants to play where he's moving sideline to sideline, up and back. Even though Rude loses this one. That's the kind of point he wants from Opela. Right? He wants him trying to cover as much ground as possible. Thank. Thank goodness Andre Agassi's back end is better than his vertical leap. But right here you see Rude switching directions again, playing behind the big fella. Casper Rude served 80% free first serves. I think when you outbot the serve bot, it looks good. But listen. Hey, look at, look at. That's pretty funny.

[C]

Are you guys seeing these statistics too? If we close our. I said before this match, one player is going to hit 126 mile an hour serve to start. He's going to not get broken and not only serve. Like andy said, Look, 88% of his first serve points won. We have a Scandinavian serve bot in our midst.

[A]

Yeah, the bigger status, if you're winning 69% of your second serve points, you are not going to get broken. Let's roll to the next one. Menshik and Mickelson. Mikkelsen found out really quick that you weren't getting a lot of love coming in on this sport. Right like that. That shot just set up on a grass score that slides through. We talked about how he needed a fast start. He did not get it. Menshik was on point the entire time. See, that ball just dies. That is not bouncing up. That drop shot will be available. Some guy named Carlos might use it tonight against Taylor Fritz. So even this ball like that's a stab. But that's not what Alex Mickelson wants when he's coming in.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He wants something even though Andre liked it. But. But here we are again, kind of flattening off. He's committed to going in here, but that's just too much time. Even though Alex wins this point and to his credit competed his butt off and fought back. Got through to the third set breaker. But we're going to see here later in here like coming in on this as that just sits up. That's too much time for someone who has a skill set of a Jakob Ncik finishing it off here with a big serve. That was a big one. He set the tone early there. Men seek and he needed that one. He hasn't been playing great. Didn't play well at the US Open. But when the chips were down. Props. Alex Mikkelsen competed well. But when you are. Look at that second serve. Points 1 Number Again, you will not win tennis matches on the pro tour if you're defending your second serve at a 32% clip. That is a stat that rarely lies to you. That and first serve percentage. What was your takeaway from this one?

[C]

Jw yeah, first of all, mincing. Had that great Davis Cup a week ago against the U.S. this is our Miami winner. It's been a bit of an uneven season, but boy, he likes American hard courts. And that backhand is right up there with. With the great shots and tennis. That was very impressive.

[A]

Let's do it. Let's roll to the next one. Little Caboli Fona. We had some Fonseca fans here yesterday. Here today. There we go. They're always somewhere. They're always somewhere. That is a joke. That. That was four feet behind the baseline off the short hop and made a mannequin out of Caboli. And we're going to see that throughout this highlight. When he has time, when this kid has time, he creates such speed. He laid sod over that one. That was like a wet blanket. He's had better forehands than that. But covering the court here. That one's like got him midway through that volley Caboli knew that he was beat. And just a little bit of flare says, let me hear you, San Francisco. And then I'm gonna do that. That's a joke. That's a joke. You should hide all the women and children after that one. That was absolutely disgusting what he did. And I'm gonna do it again. That is speed that cannot. You can't teach that kind of speed off the forehand side off of a dead ball. Not easy. I'm gonna say it. Not an original opinion. This kid's gonna be pretty good fun to watch, especially on this court. There's product market fit with that one. I know Andre Agassi liked him. Getting team Team World on the board here. I don't know what the stat is for four hands, first serve points, one got to be higher than 56%. They both defended their second serves pretty well. This was one way traffic, though. 57% of the points won versus 43. Sounds closer than it is. That's a straightforward one. Downhill skiing for 56.

[C]

It was also in the how though, because he was down a break in the first set. It was actually down 4:3. And then ran off the last three games of the first set and then ran out. This match, Cabolis, this, this guy was a week two player at Wimbledon, week two player at the Open. This was a real talented opponent. And Fonseca, I. I think we may see him again in this. Do you think?

[A]

Yeah, he's. He will be playing singles tomorrow. That is. That is an absolute guarantee and well deserved. Caboli again, I'm glad you mentioned it. Has a breakout year. Quarters of Wimbledon has won a couple tournaments, has looked great as we roll into the doubles from last night. And Carlitos, that's trouble. You just know you're beat. When he has that much time, you have to cover so many options. And look at him at the net. Not someone who normally plays doubles, but is still right there in dingles. That's worth two. I think he hit Carlos. But listen, if you, if you pin from the baseline, you have Carlos at the net playing against the movement. I mean, how much fun is this kid?

[C]

A set point right here, I think already.

[A]

Oh, Taylor wants that one back. I know a little bit about laying Sato over a volley, so I recognize it, but that was a meatball. Mensheek beats Migelson bad leave there. That one went three feet in. But Mansheek knows what to do here, right? Let's. Let's hit it big and let's let Carlos dance. I mean, that was Mickelson knew he was beat. Not easy to beat someone with a 15 mile an hour winner in professional tennis. But Carlos does some crazy stuff. Stick, save and a beaut here.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

At least you should drop shot and cheek. Or so you think. Oh, elastic. He is normal. Look at him. It's just like the rest of us. Minus every other shot he's ever hit in his entire life. I think in his press conference afterwards he said, I just messed up. I effed it up. Anyway, so 31 Europe after day one, how much fun was it to watch Carlos Alcaraz? I don't know if it's good or bad for Fritz, but he's going to get another look at Carlos very soon. Tipping off the night session here at, at 7:00'.

[B]

Clock.

[A]

But I mean, listen, this was dictated by the depth of men. Sheik they were planning kind of wanting to fall into that one up one back formation where if mensheet sticks the ball and Carlos is at net and has the ability to move. Very tough. Ask for Fritz and Mickelson. But Euro 31 after day one and the useless stat I keep getting told is that no one's ever come back from 3:1. Yeah. Since the inception in 2017. Which seems irrelevant because someone came back from 8:4 down in the last day last year. But I don't know, let's not let the obvious truth get in the way of a good stat.

[C]

That was a fun match though, wasn't it? And we all remember what we all said about Nadal. Boy, he'd be really good at Devils if we saw more of him. And then in turn he ends up winning a gold medal and he's really at doubles. I sort of feel the same way. This was the first, believe this was the first doubles match he played all year, Carlos. But yeah, that was, that was a lot of the Carlos show for a.

[D]

Lot of that match.

[C]

And the touch that we see in singles was very much apparent.

[A]

Yeah, some, some singles players you can look at and you're going, okay, that skill set, whether it's, you know, defending or getting sideline to sideline, is not something that would translate to the doubles court. There's no doubt in my mind that if Carlos actually know, focused on doubles a little bit, that he wouldn't be, you know, instantly one of the best doubles players in the world.

[C]

Can I ask you about the shot he missed that we just saw? Did you guys see that? The Taylor Fritz hits a tweener.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Put us on the other side of the net. The, the Player you're facing has his back to you, and suddenly the ball's coming your way.

[A]

Well, so it's, it's a little different. So there's a lot of times on, I promise, professional tennis players don't miss balls like that just because they're not good. So if you're, if you're actually running that back. So Taylor gets a little. He didn't hit a great tweener. It almost would have been easier if he had firmed it up because the, the cadence coming in is a little bit easier. That one goes slowly. But what you don't see is Mickelson, as soon as Carlos is about to hit it, shifts left about 2ft, right. So Carlos still normally takes that, but all of a sudden, if he's going to stick at middle, and that was the original intent, which I would guess that was based on the result. Mikkelsen shifts two feet to the left. All of a sudden, at the last minute, he's trying to put it out of reach for Mikkelsen and kind of play it back towards Taylor. Again, a lot of moving parts. It's not just because he doesn't know how to hit a floating volley. Constant movement in this kind of. At this level, you kind of have to play two shots ahead at all times. How much is strategy going to change going into day two, now that they've all played on this court, or at least most of them have, especially in doubles. Yeah, I don't think it was. I don't think they would have been surprised by the way the court was playing just based on the fact that they had plenty of court time over three days. This isn't a tournament like the US Open where you show up and there's, you know, 256 people in both draws and everyone's fighting for court time. It's wide open. There's one show. This is Laver Cup. So I don't know that the strategy changes. I'm interested to talk to Pat Rafter when he comes, because I think the way that worked today was Team World had to post first, and then Janik Noah's team, Team Europe got to basically say, okay, we have. They've posted Demon, Cerundolo and Fritz. So we can choose anyone from our team to match up with us. So it's an advantage for Team Europe today in the matchups which resulted in Zverev, Demon, Runa, Serendolo and Fritz, you know, they counted him with Carlitos and.

[C]

You know, remember the points. Points increase with each round so the, the stakes went up and be interesting. I don't know if we, we can talk about the, the schedule later but some of this too is, is time of day. This is like playing in a major where you get a first court call and at 1:00'.

[A]

Clock.

[C]

But these matches will go late, late as well. So I wonder if time of day doesn't impact this as well.

[A]

Yeah, a little bit. I mean they would have, I think you would have been strictly looking at. Okay, so like if you're the captain, we will ask Rafter when he comes but if you post demon you're going okay, I'm not going to take Zverev against Fritz because the head to head in that matchup has been I think four in a row for Taylor or something like that. So let's, let's avoid that. So that had to be a pretty obvious decision. Runo had to get in the game. Seemed like a win against Serendelo and if you know team world puts forth their best player, it's like, okay, well we have this guy named Carlos. We could probably counter that. So I'm interested to see. He'll probably tell me it's the matchups they want but I don't know that these are the matches that the team world wanted.

[C]

Another feature of this that we all like so much is we hear sometimes very intimately what the captains and what the other players are telling their, their teammates. Did anything strike you yesterday? I don't if you caught Andre had some very pointed, I think wise instruction for, for Alex Mickelson. What, what struck you about the captains yesterday?

[A]

Well, I know he was trying to get Alex Mickelson to shorten up the backswing on, on some returns earlier in the week. You know, he wanted him to I guess keep getting forward. What struck me the most just watching Andre yesterday was how little vertical leap he has. It was like a feet high 6 11. Well, let's just be fair, like Andre is very self aware. If I have the self awareness of Andre Agassi, I don't know that I'm testing my vertical leap against someone who's 18ft tall. Right. So that was probably the biggest mistake that I saw from Andre the last couple days.

[C]

But Andre knows a viral moment when he sees it. I'm a little curious. I mean Andy and I have seen this drill before, but part of the appeal of Laver cup is a mainstream product that people can understand and they can appreciate as a first timer. What, what jumped out at you yesterday?

[A]

I think that being able to see Headliners all in one place, right in a row and a schedule that, that's really great. And seeing top tennis, but also being introduced to younger talent in the same pool and then hearing how they interact, you know, with their coaches and their co captains. I think Caboli had a moment on the bench in his match where he talked about, you know, he was, he was feeling the pressure by playing in front of Roger, you know, and like just to hear the humanity of a player, when you see him on screen, you don't think so much about, you know, what they're feeling. I mean, I feel the same pressure. Yeah. And I'll tell you, like my experience with it and not even playing in front of someone, but playing like I remember the first time that I played Andre, I was still in high school, right. We played, we played Miami. I win my first round, it's a Sunday night, we get booked night session in Miami and I had to kind of check myself from. I'm looking across the court and I'm seeing like that pigeon toed walk, the thing that I had like copied a million times in my garage. Or you look at, over at Pete for the first time and you're playing with him and he's kind of doing that little pump fake before he serves and giving you this one. You know that all of those little things matters and it's kind of like a pinch yourself type moment. We're going to kill a little time here before Pat Rafter. If you think of a question, raise your hand, especially in this front row so we can, we can hear from you. But what are you interested in seeing for the rest of the day? And also three one sounds like a huge deficit. The points double today. Right? That's, that's one match, right. Demon goes out and takes care of business. We're even. It's the beauty of Labor Cup. You can always kind of get the. Yeah, it's first of 13. Get the scoreboard. Yeah. So we still have plenty of time. If you're team world, it's an easy sale to just go, listen, we're, we win two matches, we're ahead again. So I think that's part of the beauty of the format. Jw.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I mean to me the other thing that really struck me was, you know what it was the decor. It's that couch that players go to tournaments and obviously there's a field there and they're, you know, their colleagues are on hand, they're on the other side of the net. But it's like when you Go to work and your colleagues gather around you and look over your shoulder. The fact that you are trying to impress your peers and your coworkers, and they're 10ft away from you. Not to mention Andre Agassi and Yannick Noah, your captains. But I mean, look at this. The proximity of your closest rivals cheering you on. Give. I mean, imagine if Fonseca played the US Open and Carlos Alcaraz, you know, Taylor, Fritz, Casper, Rude, go down the line, were right there in the first row of the court cheering him on and in some cases, perhaps hoping he would lose. I. I think that couch is. Whoever came up with that deserves a bonus because I think that's really one of the secrets.

[A]

You know, who else deserves a bonus for his support of his team last night? Who's that? Was Alex Verev wearing sunglasses at night the entire night inside.

[C]

For the record, we need them here. This is not a fashion statement.

[A]

Felt like a desperate play for an Oliver Peoples deal.

[C]

I thought you were gonna say gooder.

[A]

I'm more of a gooder guy. That's kind of what. When you do podcasts, that's about what you use. But I mean, fully committed to the sunglasses. How do we feel about that? Was that okay? Was that a miss? Was. Did we respect the commitment? Big fan. You're a big sunglasses inside guy, too. Yeah, definitely. That's okay. It was cool. I saw a cut up on social media that showed the two benches watching the same point, and when it happened, you know, you saw them both.

[B]

All right.

[C]

Speaking of the devil.

[A]

As important as that is. Yeah, that's not us together for two time US Open champion, former world number one, Pat Ravner. Good to see you. So one of the things that. First of all, welcome.

[D]

Yeah, thank you, mate.

[A]

Great to see you.

[D]

Good to be here, actually. I've actually had a lot of fun, I thought.

[A]

I think it's weird whenever you show up and you're better looking in person even. Gosh, it's like disarming.

[D]

Andrew, please.

[A]

One of my favorite things that happened at the US Open in a level set, like, we're all kind of walking around doing corporate stuff, so we're kind of just in the orbit of each other. And Pat shared with me that he goes, oh, mate, I got. I got the dates wrong. I thought Laver cup was next week, so you had to go kill some time. How was Napa?

[D]

Pretty easy to kill time here in California. Well, I was under the impression that I was coming here, and Andres let me go back a step. Andre said Come and do the layover cup with me. We'll have some fun. I said, well, what does that entail exactly? He said, well, probably drinking and consoling our ourselves every evening.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

About what just happened.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And I said, mate, I'm in. I'm your man. I can be your wingman here. So I decided to get some practice in at Napa Valley Train and went up there and just got stuck into some of the big cab savs here, and it was unreal. Had a great time. It's such an awesome spot.

[A]

Yeah, it's good. You never want to be unprepared when you're coming to your First Wave conference. Talk to us about day one. The court I hit on this morning, it feels like it's playing kind of low and slow. Right? What are you all. What's kind of the ethos going into day two for Team World?

[D]

Okay. So we decided to put our best team that we think on forward on. On Sunday, effectively, in terms of the matchups.

[A]

Okay?

[D]

So I'm sure you guys are all familiar with how the point structures work in that Laver cup, but on the third day, you get three points for each win, and that's when you can start winning the event. The guys are backing themselves, and they think that that was their best opportunity to get the win here. So the numbers at the state at this stage don't look obviously in our favor. And we're also coming up against a very strong European team. So coming into today is, you know, how do we grab two wins out of this? Yeah, and you're talking about the. I mean, Alcaraz. I'm sorry, but this guy's amazing. It's. It is so incredible.

[A]

Have you seen him play much?

[D]

No, not at all.

[A]

He can hit the ball, can he?

[D]

Oh, yeah. He can generate power. So when we talk about the pace of the court, it's quite slow. Okay? So what that means is when the ball hits, it effectively stops you from getting any pace onto your racket. So this guy can create that pace and not many people in the world can. His racket head speed, his strength, his body position is amazing. I think Fonseca can also do it. We saw him go to life last night, and it was unreal to watching. Just see where there's potential next couple of years where this kid could be, and that was exciting. And we saw Opelka. I mean, my God, if he had a radar on some of those forehands he ripped last, but that was his game. You know, we had him to go in there and go hard and go strong. The court doesn't necessarily favour us in many ways. You know, you want it fast. What he. It's interesting, though, but you have to hit your spots perfectly. So last night on your. Yesterday on the server, Pelka, big serve, no worries. He misses his spot by this far. Generally, he wins the point. And when I say that he serves and he misses his target by this far, the guy's too fast for him to return this court. No, it comes right into your hitting zone. You have to hit the lines. You have to hit within this time, this margin every time when you serve. So when he played Rune yesterday, he. Yeah, sorry, Caspar Rood. Yeah, Caspar Rood, I think, served 25 serves in a row without missing.

[A]

Yeah, he served 80 for the match.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[D]

He went through a stage where he didn't miss a first serve.

[C]

He missed first serve for like five games.

[D]

Yeah, like five games and half. And, and. But he hit his spots. And so then, then Riley Opelka couldn't get the return back. I leaned across to Tim Henman and the opposition, who's the vice captain over there, and I said, tim, is it okay if I go to Casper, your player? Can I start asking, asking him how his technique is looking on his serve. Can I get into this guy's head? Because this is ridiculous serving. And he said, yep, go for it, mate. And I went, oh.

[A]

And I couldn't do it. You couldn't do it. There's no way. But the other thing is, it's not even just a pace through the court, where normally, like a court, you get to a court and you can normally cheat it one way or the other. Right. If it's fast and through the court like a. Like a Wimbledon, you can beat someone for pace. You can beat someone for chip with. With a chip. You saw this guy get to a million Wimbledon finals rushing people. Right? But also it takes away the element of like a kick. Opela's kick serve was basically falling into Rude's pocket yesterday. So even it puts more of a premium on winning first serve points when you don't have the advantage of it actually. Of it actually getting. Getting through it. The question is, and I'll leave it for Kevin Roger, does that mean you use slice serves more than a kick serve?

[D]

So, yes, but what's happening also is this ball is puffing up very quickly and becoming super slow through the air. So the slice serve, you'll see when the new balls come out, they'll start serving wide. They'll use A slice serve because it's more effective. It's hitting the court and it's skidding through. When it gets puffy, it's not working so much. So what they're trying to do now is shape the ball with a bit of kick so it keeps them honest one way. And then they're trying to use the same ball toss and fake a serve down the other direction. So they're trying to mix up the placements through ball toss, keeping the returner uncertain.

[C]

So if this were Davis cup, right, you would have picked the surface home team. Yeah, you would have picked it.

[D]

This is the same surface that comes from. I think it's been the same one for eight years.

[A]

Right.

[D]

And what. So Andre and I were looking at this beforehand, like four months ago, and we're going, what is this surface actually doing? They said, well, it's been around for eight years now, so it should be speeding up. They're repainting it every time. So we come here and it's still gritty. They've got so much sand, it's like sandpaper. And you'll see it was really interesting in the first couple of hits we had on it. We said, this is really slippery near the baseline. What's going on? That is the guys wearing off that top sand bit. And it was literally sand coming off the court. And we'd have to leaf blow it every half an hour to get the sand off the court that was just shining. So where it's fast is where their feet are hitting. That's only behind the baseline. No one's come to the net and serve volley, so there's nothing fast in the middle.

[A]

So the. The question about what your serve options are, a lot of times when it's slower, it's. You're less trying to figure out, especially if you don't have like an absolute cannon for a serve, it starts becoming a real estate play. Right? Like you're pulling someone off and to either go back behind him, which Casper did a bunch to Riley yesterday, right. So Riley had to commit because he had to cover 20ft on this side. And Rude would either go there or he would stick it in the six feet behind him. Where the big fella gets. Gets a little awkward with the movement. Obviously, if you're 7ft tall, you're not moving like. Like Carlos. So it starts becoming a real estate play as a. As opposed to something you're trying to get through on the. On the first one.

[C]

Right.

[A]

The cheapies also, I was looking at. It makes it tougher to Approach like I saw Alex, and Alex Mickelson fought his ass off yesterday to give himself a chance because it wasn't a great start. But even on approach shots where normally someone who kind of has those long, fluid swings, it felt like when. When. When people are getting. Look, they're getting a look at a pass every time. Right. It's tough to rush a passing shot. And with the string beds and the way that people are able to pass now, it felt like men seek. Kind of got a groove on passing shots early.

[D]

Yeah, well, Alex was devastated after that loss, first of all. And I just love their passion out there.

[A]

Alex Mikkelsen's like one of the best. I say kids, but adults, young men, you're ever going to meet.

[D]

He's engaging, he wants to learn. You can talk to him on the side of the court. You can give him advice. And Andre is having great interactions with him. He just came out super tight. I mean, his serve had no pop on it. You could hear the difference. His ball, his forehand was lagging the bottom of the net, which is probably his weaker wing, you know, at the change of ends at three love, he's lost his serve again. Or four. One double breakdown. I went over to him, said, mate, just gotta fight hard. Just try and get your. Get rid of this tension in your body so you can be free. So you work hard these next couple of games and try to find a way into the match. And then let's explode in a second set it. You can just see the nervous energy in him. But I'll just answer the question about coming to the net.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So, yeah, everyone on the bench last night, they said, look, if no one comes to net, we're not coming into the net. This is crap. Everyone's getting past. Look at this. I said, well, how about you come in on a slice for once, Let the ball die. Every one of you guys are doing is ripping a ball hard.

[A]

Do they know what did they know?

[D]

They don't know what a slice backhand is.

[A]

Did they know. I was about to say, did they know what a slice was?

[D]

You cannot teach these guys in three days how to hit a slice. Bloody backhand. Like, come on, guys, there's a way. I've sort of shaken my head and every time they look across, Yay. Why are we coming to the net? And I said, yeah, maybe you should stay back.

[A]

Just talk. Talk to us a little bit about you. Obviously, take this job. Andre asks you to join. Join the team. No brainer in my opinion. Talk about expectations and what has kind of been what you expected and what has been something that was completely unexpected from this experience?

[D]

Okay. What was totally unexpected for me was just a total and utter engagement of these players and how much this is so important to them. Oh, I'm loving. I get actually pins and needles thinking about it because I was trying to buy into the event sometimes too. How does it sit in the calendar? How does it sit in with these guys playing 52 weeks a year, traveling around the world, you know, thinking, come to Laver cup, what does it mean to them? It means a lot. They have really invested. So every time these guys go on the court, they're playing for their team and they really feel it. The passion's there. Andre and I are super pumped and I'm actually a little bit surprised at how much I'm into it. I'm getting off the seat quite a bit in Davis cup. When I was Davis cup captain, I think I sat there like a zombie for four years. Just went, yeah, no worries. But I'm so into this and it allows it to happen too, the interaction part of it. So to me that's been a bit of a surprise. And what I was hoping for, which probably it might not necessarily be a surprise, but. And it was probably more hope, I guess, was the fact that these guys are really willing to learn. Some people you can't talk to, you get into Davis Cup. I know. With my guys name names.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. No.

[B]

All right.

[D]

Your buddy Nick. We don't. Sorry, but Andy and I.

[A]

That's okay. No one, no one watches this show. It's fine.

[C]

Saturday morning.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

So I can relate to Andy's stance on Nick a bit. Yeah. So anyway, I'm enjoying the, the camaraderie of the team. I'm really enjoying the, the buy in. The different personalities all coming together for a common goal of winning for team World. And what you're getting out there is real, guys. Now, the results might not always go our way or the way your way or whatever it might be, but I can tell you 100% is genuine. And the guys are busting ass out there to get the best result they can. And we're loving it.

[C]

That's great. Say more about that because I think that's a really interesting component. When you were Davis cup captain, you knew these guys hometowns and oh, you're from Adelaide and there was this national bond. This is different. I mean, there's a 19 year old from Brazil, that's far from Mount Isa.

[A]

That's a hike.

[C]

How are you building rapport and building this team environment when you don't have the sort of natural bond of country.

[D]

Well, the first year is just trying to be present and be. And show them your personality, what you're willing to do for the. Of the team, your investment that you're going to put back into it, and then you're hoping that they're going to accept it and then buy in. But a lot of it has to come down to their personality, too, huh? You know, like, are they willing to make a little bit of a sacrifice to come together as a team because it's such an individual sport now? It might seem a weird thing for me to say as a sacrifice, but it sort of is sometimes when you become so selfish in your own world as a tennis player, which we are. And now you're coming together as a team. And I know some of these guys have had, you know, nearly all of them actually are really invested in Davis Cup. Alex Dimanor as well. He's, you know, one of the. I would have loved to have coached him. Davis cup, he would have been just so, so much fun. So, yeah, getting back to the question, I'm trying to think where I was going with it all.

[A]

Basically just bringing a melting pot of. Of culture together on a team, as opposed to all kind of being from the same place, you know, same time. But talk a little bit about. We touched on Fonseca there for a second, but we just did the highlight packages before you came along, and people are able to watch on that monitor. He hit six forehands last night where the jaw drops, like the amount of pace he's able to create. And you feel like he's kind of learning how to play tennis in real time. But you can't teach that kind of speed off the racket. I mean, it's. It's. You know, I'm not saying, like, let's make the comp to Carlos, because that's always unfair, but I'm just saying, you know, of the guys on earth, you know, sinner will do it every once in a while. Carlos can snap one off from anywhere. Fonseca with this court when he has time. I mean, it was crazy pills last night.

[D]

Do you know him?

[A]

I've met him. I got to meet him in New York. We played. We. He. He pitched in on. When we were doing Hazbin Night in the Open before. Before the event started, he spent a little bit of time. Yeah, he was fantastic.

[D]

And actually, it's for real, this kid.

[A]

Oh, man.

[D]

If he was your son, you'd be so bloody happy.

[A]

That's like the nicest thing you can say about someone. Yeah, Seriously.

[D]

What a ripper, man. I want to have tears talking about him. He is such a nice. Seriously, I cannot say enough great things about him as a player. And I hope he becomes the player that in two years time. It's going to take him a little while. You know, what we saw last night, I reckon he's halfway there and that's what's exciting about him. But a lot has to go, right, huh? You know, like he has to stay fit, he has to stay healthy, he has to take. All his attributes to me are pointing to one of the greats, you know, I'm hoping that he becomes that third player that comes up against, you know, Sinner and Alcaraz soon. Disrupter, a disruptor, but winning winning majors as well. And yeah, I'm such a fan of his mate.

[C]

Let me, let me ask you a quick question. You know how in school, like the freshmen know all the seniors, but the seniors don't know the little kids.

[A]

So you're playing.

[D]

Hang on, say it again. What's a freshman?

[A]

No, but.

[C]

Oh, sorry. Grade.

[D]

You know, a little freshman's new and the senior's been there for a while, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Year one versus I should have done the Aussie equivalent. So you probably didn't know there was. There was a teenager in Florida.

[A]

No, no, no. He was actually asking you what's. What's school?

[B]

No, no, no.

[C]

Yeah, you learn stuff until you.

[A]

I did not. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

With a startup. Where was I going with this?

[A]

You, you have a few years on.

[C]

This gentleman to your right, you're a few years older. You probably didn't know much about him as a junior. He knew everything about you. Did you know that you very nearly played him.

[A]

I told him. You probably didn't know. Tell everyone the story. I told him in here. I was so pissed, I. So Pat's like hero of mine.

[B]

Love them.

[A]

Like you never. If you have a problem with Pat Rafter, it's. The problem is you. But I got a wildcard into a tournament in Florida close to where I went to high school, first pro tournament. And I look at the draw and I have to play this the guy who's good player but like 80 in the world is like, okay, I didn't draw, you know, the number one seed. And if I win that match, I get to play Pat Rafter, like, which would have been a disaster for me at that moment in time, but I wanted it so bad so I wanted to play it so bad that I went out and choked and absolutely had a horror show. It was a nightmare. So I never got to play Pat Rafter. But real quick, Pat, I know you got to get back to your team and actually have a real job today, not just talking stuff with us, but the goal of this event. Right. We've talked about it with this crowd. The ideal behind is let's connect the generations. Let's start at Rod Laver, and then let's get to Fonseca, who's born in 2006, and let's just create a melting pot of tennis generation. Let's give an excuse for Mac to hang out with Borg for another seven years. What's it been like with your old pal Andre, and do you like him more or less than you did three days ago?

[D]

I think still the same. He's. You know, I've always really liked Andre and really respected him, and I've got to know him better, but it doesn't still change the more I get to know him. He's still. He's so open. He's so honest. Yeah, he's real. You know, he's gone through a lot of stuff in his life, and he's come out the other side and not a lot of other people, not a lot of people come through that side. Like, he has. He's got perspective, and, yes, he's got his demons, but he's open, he talks, and I love it. And we're just having this really cool, open conversations. But as I said, I think it's always been the same. I've always had a lot of respect for him. And, you know, if. If I'm really happy that it's him I'm doing it with, and I don't. I looked at everything that's going on, and I. There's no way I want to be the captain. I want to be under someone like him, you know, or if you did it, something like that, where, you know, that big personality and can really relate to so many of the American guys as well, because it's so such a strong American team that, you know, Andre is just buying that they know him and he's such an iconic figure, but as a person, mate, he's pretty special.

[A]

Yeah, I totally agree. I was lucky enough to kind of have him be a mentor when I was first coming up, but it can. I just. Let's just also call it, like, it's a. It's. It. It's a lot. Like, I know we played a pickleball Event which was. That's its own thing. So insert joke here I think is what it says on the monitor. But I would get five paragraphs analyzing paddles and weighted things, but who cares? Give it up for Pat Ra. Thank you. Support for this show comes from ServiceNow who are enabling people to do more fulfilling work. The work they actually want to do. There's a lot of talk about AI out there right now, and a lot of times the AI you hear about feels like it's hard to grasp. But ServiceNow is here to work with people and tackle the boring, busy work that always gets in the way. The stuff that slows you down and keeps you from doing the stuff you actually want to be doing. And they do it with their AI agents. By being built into the ServiceNow platform, they automate millions of repetitive tasks across it. HR, customer service, and more. You can automate any process with AI powered workflow generation. That means you can build workflows with reusable components, configurable playbooks, process mining, and advanced decision support so your people can focus on what really matters. And that's putting AI agents to work for the people. Find out how to get [e-mail] AI agents, let's be honest. Are you happy with your job? Like, really happy? The unfortunate fact is that a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Far too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown or one we never wanted in the first place. But still we stick it out and we give reasons, like, what if the next move is even worse? I've already put years into this place, and maybe the most common one, Isn't everyone kind of miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. It's time for Strawberry Me. They match you with a certified career coach who helps you go from where you are to where you actually want to be. Your coach helps you get clear on your goals, create a plan, build your confidence, and keeps you accountable along the way. So don't leave your career to chance. Take action and own your future with a professional coach in your corner. Go to Strawberry Me Unstuck to claim a special offer. That's Strawberry Me Unstuck. All right. And as we look forward to today, let's check in. We got some sounds from yesterday that the players shown out a little bit in the press conferences. Yeah, let's check it out. All right.

[B]

It was a good start for Team.

[D]

Europe and Myself and happy to contribute.

[B]

To point to the team early and get us off to a good start. I think historically it's been quite important to get the first point under our belt. And let's see if we can build from here.

[A]

I just kind of got out, served there, I'd say, and I played one poor point in the breaker on my own, and that was really it. Yeah, I thought I took care of everything I needed to take care of. The court's really tough for a server, that's for sure. But, you know, I thought the way I played would have done the job or you know, given me the 50, 50 chance that I like against just about anyone.

[B]

I mean, it's a crazy.

[D]

It's crazy.

[A]

It's literally a show, you know, it's.

[B]

A great vibe being with the team.

[A]

It's unbelievable.

[B]

Tennis is an individual game, and being.

[A]

There with our team off court and.

[B]

On court, it's just unbelievable experience.

[A]

Any questions? Well, I fuck it up. That easy volley that I missed after, you know, my partner made that run, that. The effort that the most easy bully that I had, you know, I just miss it.

[D]

So I just.

[A]

And it wasn't a 40 old day serving, so it was. I mean, I felt bad. Every point is so, so important.

[C]

So I'm really happy, you know, that.

[A]

I bring to the team two points today.

[B]

Well, it's been a great day altogether.

[A]

I think it was a great day of tennis.

[B]

You know, the quality of tennis was very Good.

[A]

We up 3:1. But, you know, it could have gone, you know, many ways. You know, the matches were very close and a lot of different style of play. And, yes, I'm very. I'm very happy and, you know, to sit with these guys, you know, so it was a very intense. I didn't expect it to be that.

[B]

Intense, tell you the truth. Emotionally, I'm not so into it.

[A]

I don't know. I mean, just if. If only. If only Carlos had a little charisma and was likable.

[C]

You know, the bloodless robot that is Carlos Alcrid.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[C]

Play. Play with your hair. Do something. Yeah, give us a good quote.

[A]

I'll tell you. I'll tell you something. And I've told this. If you listen to our show, I think I've said it a couple times, but I happen to be leaving the grounds of the U.S. open three or four times while Carlos was walking in. Right. So you go through the security. Is that for me? But you walk through the security thing and, you know, some people say hello because it's the nice thing to do. Right? And that's. That's a great thing, right? We all be a little friendlier. Carlos walking in, said hello to every single person that was working at the event. They're definitely coming for me. Thank you for watching Surf subscribe, like.

[C]

Leave a review and post Bond.

[A]

Every single person knew their native tongue, the language they spoke, and if he knew that, addressed him in that language every single day. We are lucky to have this kid. It's like a continuation of Roger. I mean, it's just fantastic.

[C]

I was going to lead you right to that. That reminds me of some other people from a previous generation. One thing you really get a sense of in this sport is that leaders set the tone, leaders set the culture. And when you grow up as a kid or when you are new to tour and you're watching how the incumbents do it, you take cues from them. And what you just described sounds very familiar to the previous generation.

[A]

Yeah, it was just. Go ahead, Mike. I was going to say another thing I took away from the sound bite was Rally Alpaca saying that, you know, he got out served, which is like a shock. So moving to today, the first matchup is Vera of Demon, you know, and. And right now it's vera owns that 8:2. But do you think this court neutralizes that advantage a little bit?

[D]

Well, you want to.

[C]

You want to factoid real quick?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

8 2. Zverev. The two times diminor beats Verev. They were both cups. They were both team format. They were both. It wasn't Labor Cup.

[A]

Ooh, you got them there they were. Ooh, see, you got him pretty good. Right?

[C]

But what do you make of that match theme for the day is the court as well.

[A]

It's a little different with so Opelka in his serve. I don't think it's the same because Zverev actually likes playing on slower courts. He does. He does great on clay. The ball's not going to get up and away on, on his forehand. Demons is not going to be able to serve through this court. Zverev is going to be able to make a lot more returns. Zverev actually hits his spots and doesn't rely on spin going away from you, right? This court is like, it's a. It's steel spin, right? So like a, like a Pete Sampras, you think about how his ball, his. His serve slice would just keep going and it never stopped, right? It never really got to your pocket. So then by the time it got to your racket, it was kind of like a glancing blow and you're fighting spin both ways. Zverev actually has like a flat kind of pop serve right where if he hits a spot, it's going through the court no matter what. I can't imagine that, you know, Team World had to post today. So we're going to post what we post and kind of react tomorrow. But I, I don't think they're going to be excited about the matchup with Demon just because Zverev can defend his serve way more than than Opel could against someone who can switch directions. I think the question for me is how is Demon gonna play? Everyone likes to say, oh, he's really fast. He's. He's kind of a defensive player. That's not true. That's, that's kind of lazy analysis. He hits the ball flat through the court. His, he uses his speed to get forward almost more than, than side to side. So he is going to have to make someone happen because Sasha is more than happy staying in those longer rally. He's like the modern day six foot six, six foot seven guy who actually is not scared to kind of stay in those extended rallies. I, I think Sasha is the, the favorite in this matchup. Yeah. And after that we got Holger versus Serendolo. They're head to head is one and one. What do you see there?

[C]

Matchup, isn't it?

[A]

It is. And Serendolo, we've talked about it and you know, I mentioned it and then Pat made me look good by saying essentially the same thing with the people that can create speed off of a dead ball. And he name checked Alcaraz and Fonseca. Serendalo can rip the ball on the forehand side. He will be able to create more speed Runa on the backhand if he gets time, can, can rip it. But we're talking about just creating speed off a dead ball. That's advantage Serendalo in this match. And I think this one for Team World as I'm circling it on this, I think this is the biggest match of the day. This is the one that they, I don't have to win, but like need to win the most. Right? Like it's, they're gonna, I think they're, they, they can sneak one of the other two, but they lose this one, they're in danger of losing all three singles matches. I think because as good as Taylor Fritz is, it's like impossible to choose against Carlos right now. Right. But the Serendolo matchup, I actually think this Court suits him. Okay. And. And Runa is, is his, his variance between playing good and when he's not playing well. It acts a little bit more like a heart rate monitor. Right. It's not a murmur. It's. It's kind of peaks and valleys a little bit more. I think Serendolo will actually be able to create a little speed on this court.

[C]

That's it. I mean, I think, you know, it's. If Fonseca is going to be our standard bearer and Carlos, maybe it's not quite there, but that Serendulo forehand is a real weapon. Again, these are two guys. I think that they're. They're bigger than you think they are.

[B]

They don't necessarily.

[D]

I mean, this.

[C]

I think, I think Kolger's about six two and Serendal is about six one. They don't necessarily. Doesn't translate that way on tv, but these guys can both, can both slug. It's interesting, but I don't. Maybe I didn't follow you. This is a critical point, you think, for team.

[A]

For team world. For team world. Yeah, I think so. Rundelo needs to come through and win this match of the three matchups. So you can imagine. Okay, World going. All right, let's post this today. We know who they're going to counter with because Vera didn't play yesterday. Runa didn't play yesterday. So it's just a matter of. They probably expected this, these matchups, right? They knew this is going to be a tough day. You heard Pat immediately say day three is our day. And that's not because he's overly confident about day two. They weren't going to post Verav against Fritz because what we said about the head to head, it was probably always going to be this. They probably wanted to post Carlos against Fritz also. I like Carlos in this match. I don't think it's a horrible court for Fritz against Carlos. Carlos is going to have a harder time playing the ball up out of the zone with Taylor. And we all know when Taylor has it in his zone, rip city, right. He can actually create speed through the court. The drop shot from Carlos if the ball checks. If the ball checks. And he has time. When Carlos has time, right. Let's say that we're playing each other against each other right here in the first row and I'm Carlos, right? The ball comes and then all of a sudden you have to cover 15ft quickly in either direction because you know he has 100 mile an hour power in his forehand. So that means you have to check back with your movement, right? You have to get into a defensive position where you're ready to defend the corners. And then all of a sudden, this kid slides his racket underneath it and plays a dropper in front of you. And now you're dealing with 20ft this way, 20ft this way. You have to check backwards, and then all of a sudden run against your movement and cover the 20ft ahead of you. On a slow, gritty court, it will open up Carlos's drop shot more so than on a grass court where it slides through where Taylor can create more pace.

[C]

Yeah, I am going back, too, to what you said yesterday about how head to head, which is sort of what we first run to whenever we hear a matchup. Sometimes it can be misleading. Sometimes it really isn't particularly revealing. And you said the where is almost more important than the how many. But at the same time, I think with this, it's three nothing. Taylor Fritz. So Taylor Fritz has never beaten Carlos. They've played at Wimbledon. Totally different surface, but good match. Tough four setup to five. Good match. They've played here, they played here. They played Labor Cup. So it's. It's interesting to look at their history. And though Taylor hasn't gotten on the board, I think he can actually take some sources of encouragement from that.

[A]

Well, the other thing, let's give. Let's give Taylor Fritz his props. This guy goes into every match.

[C]

Did you hear the man? Let's give Taylor Fritz his prop.

[A]

But one, there's not a match he walks into which he doesn't think he can win. Right. Even Andre said it. Like he thinks he's gonna win every match. Oh, I'm down 30 against Carlos. I've lost 11 to Novak. I'm win this one. Like, he has that mentality. I wish I would have had it. I was maybe too sober about my thought about matches. But he also, Taylor, you know, he's gonna leave it out there. He comes every week. He plays a heavy schedule during the year and always has during his entire career. We're talking 35, 40 weeks a year doing something. And he shows up mentally every week. That is not easy. And I know we like to talk about the American men and all this. Taylor Fritz is an absolute winner as far as attitude goes. And the way he shows up and plays every single week. That being said, that being said, I just. I don't know that you can bet against Carlos right now if he has time. There are just so many tricks that you can account for. Even. Even what we just talked about. And then that's before we get to back and that's before we get served. He's happy to set the table. You were asking questions about serve earlier. He's happy to set the table with that wide kick serve. Because then all of a sudden, Taylor has to cover. You know, I have to haul ass back to the forehand. He can hit the inside drop or he hit this way. It just gives him so many options. So I think it's really tough to. To go against Carlos. Someone is going to have a long day. As we're looking at the matchups. Ask you about that first up and then last match, Demon, he's got to play first singles and then last match again in doubles with Mickelson, Runa and Rude. Are they gonna get along? Is this smart? Is this good? Is Noah. Is. Is. Is Noah's like therapy sessions and the centering yourself. Is this gonna work? This would be an impressive feat.

[C]

It's a Scandinavian pact that's been made. Can you. Can you.

[A]

Can you. Can you explain that a little bit, that joke for just a little. They've gotten fights before on court, which.

[C]

Actually do it to his credit. I think Casper has mentioned that as well. Yeah, There's a bit of a rivalry between these two players, one from Denmark and one from Norway, but now they are on. On the same side of the net. It's kind of an interesting doubles match.

[A]

I mean, three.

[C]

Three. Three guys. And you want to talk about. And Alex Diminore playing, playing second. What do. What do you do if you play the first singles match and you got to come back at night? You stick around or you go.

[A]

No, I think. I think your teammates understand that you need to kind of separate the day a little bit. If I'm Demon, I'm probably going back to the room for a while. Kind of take yourself out of the space. You play your first match, maybe you need treatment. So this. This doesn't account for, like, body work and what. And what needs to happen. But, yeah, I'd go back if I was him. But, you know, knowing Demon, he's such a team guy, he'll probably be right there cheering on, cheering on his teammates. We're being told they have cold plunges and hot tubs inside the warriors facility. Maybe he's just hanging out here, living the lap of luxury. I mean, it's definitely a lap of luxury inside this. And by the way, I meant to say this in the opening remarks when I said I did a clinic in this building, what a victory. The Chase center is like, what a place to see a sporting event. Absolute. From the feedback from the fee. Yeah. Just make it the home of Labor Cup. Right. It's that easy.

[C]

Permanent home.

[A]

Now you. Now you hit on something, I don't know that the rest of Earth would. Would, Would. Would deal with that, but like a.

[C]

Residency at the sphere, tennis is just going to come here every fall.

[A]

Yeah. You want to impress me, better put it in the sphere. We're pandering now, but it's just an absolute victory of a. Of a place to watch it, see it. Everything has been. Has been. Has been first class.

[C]

Yeah, there's. There's. I don't know if you guys sense this. Is there something a little bit cruel? That when you're on the backside, you have this gorgeous view of Oakland and the warriors can see where they used to play, and then they move across the bay into this beautiful home? But no, this. This arena. And not just in tennis terms. I mean, just as a sporting venue, this is absolutely as. As good as it gets. Glad you mentioned the cold plunge, by the way. That's kind of finding real favor in. In tennis lately.

[A]

I do it every day.

[C]

How long?

[A]

50 degrees, 2 hours just to intimidate people. What do you.

[B]

What do you.

[C]

Just more and more players, though. I think I heard three minutes. 50 degrees seems to be the. Is that what you do?

[A]

Yeah, I do longer than that. But yeah, I mean, listen, as we get smart, I mean, one of the biggest things that's changed in tennis is, is there's like no stone left unturned. Right. We get constant data feedback. We get constant work with. With our bodies hot, cold. And now it's at pretty much every facility I remember used to have to go at the US Open, we would go fill like one of those big tal bins that are like, huge full of ice and just sit in it. Times have changed a little bit from the days of. Of the man Rod. Rod. Labor. What do you think the. What do you think the score is after today? Jw Who. Who does. Doing the math, in Europe, three out of four.

[C]

I mean, you know, you hear three, one, and you think, oh, boy, this is going to get. And then you realize you have this accelerator clause. So if team World can split, I think you're right.

[A]

I think a split is a win for team World today. I think so. It.

[C]

So that would be. So that'd be what? That'd be 7 5. So 7, 7 5, when everything's triple is basically. You may as well be tied right.

[A]

You might as well be tied because points are worth three tomorrow.

[C]

So I'm thinking if you're realistically, if Taylor Fritz can be Carlos, that's great. That's a great win. That's a real signature win. That's going to be tough. But I think the matches you pegged and I, I, you know, the double match, who knows? I mean, I do. Going back to rude and rude, that is one of the beauties of this.

[A]

That give us some context.

[C]

The what?

[A]

Oh, our surprise guest is here. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. When you visit the doctor, you probably hand over your insurance, your ID and contact details. It's just one of the many places that has your personal info and if any of them accidentally expose it, you could be at risk for identity theft. Lifelock monitors millions of data points a second. If you become a victim, they'll fix it, guaranteed. Or your money back. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail]. podcast terms apply. What is up, people of the Internet?

[C]

My name is Marques Brownlee, AKA mkbhd, and some of the biggest smartphones of.

[A]

The year are about to launch, including the brand new iPhone 17s around the corner with a model you've never seen before. So on the Waveform podcast, myself and co hosts Andrew Manganieli and David Amell gather the biggest tech news of each week and then discuss at length everything.

[C]

We'Re excited about and sometimes things we're.

[A]

Not so excited about. So this time of year, we like to call smartphone season. So if you're interested in hearing all the latest releases from Apple and Samsung and Google and others, be sure to check out the Waveform podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. See you there. Oh, our surprise guest is here.

[C]

We have a surprise for you.

[A]

We can ask about the residency.

[B]

Andy, what's up?

[A]

All right, let's give it up for Roger Federer. Let's. It's good to see people have already forgotten about you.

[C]

Yeah. Everybody know who this is?

[B]

They're here for you.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, exactly. You're just in the neighborhood or what?

[B]

Yeah, I was actually. Yeah, I was just at the coffee over there and then, you know, they said, why don't you quickly come over?

[A]

Well, we appreciate you. It's good to see you. Welcome to Served our dumb little podcast.

[B]

I know, finally.

[A]

You know that it's a dumb little podcast or what?

[B]

Podcast.

[A]

I said a dumb little podcast.

[B]

I know it's a podcast, but not a dumb little one. I like it.

[A]

Thank you, great job, guys.

[D]

I've been saying that.

[A]

Welcome.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Obviously great congratulations on, on the turnout for this event. Year after year, you deliver a first class event for, for the fans. Something that I am. The reason behind this event is the most important thing. Right. You wanting to pay tribute to one of the legends of our sport. And we know that it was, you started it along with Tony Gok. He mentioned the other night when we were at the, the gala that it was, I think he said it was in the back of the car in Shanghai where you kind of said, we need to do something for, for Rod. Yeah, I don't know if that's true or not. Was that something that had been building in your mind for a while? Like what was the thing that pushed you over the edge where it was like, enough is enough. We have to celebrate this great man.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think. Exactly. And that's why we're all here, because there was an idea and, and the way I always thought about it was that, you know, when you're in tennis and you're retired, like us now, you could do a podcast like what you do right now, you know, it's what.

[A]

I do, it's not what you do, obviously.

[B]

No, but all seriousness, either you're a coach or a commentator, you know, in many ways. And then, okay, you could maybe be a tournament director, you could own a tournament. But it's kind of the spectrum is not very big. Like when you go to other sports, I feel there is loads of things to be done. And in tennis, I feel we forget the legends of our sport. We don't see them enough, we don't include them enough. And I've always been a little bit sad not to see all the heroes that have paved the way for us on a more frequent basis. So anyway, so that was always something that has lived within me. Then of course, if you look at prize money as an example, that's gone. Risen in an incredible way. I think Rod Lavender made a, maybe a few million dollars. Alcaraz already made 15 million just this year alone. So just to give it, give some context. And I've been obviously coached by, you know, the likes of Stefan Edberg. Like you have been coached by Jimmy and then Tony Roach, been my coach, Peter Lundgren. And I've always was educated about the history of the game. So there we are. And I said we gotta bring them in, maybe bring together for a week or a weekend the place where we're all happy to see each other again and give them a role and that's where then the captains came in, the assistant captains. And maybe, you know, as we hopefully grow as a labor, maybe there's going to be more and more roles. So.

[A]

Yeah. Well, Operation Successful one Round of applause for the Great Rod Labor.

[B]

Thank you, guys.

[A]

How, how full does it make your heart that, like, ideas are easy, execution is. Is obviously harder. Where Rocket Rod is there tonight, you know, watching someone. Sorry, watching someone last night who was born 12 days before Andre retired in Fonseca. So you have, you have successfully bridged the generations and brought back in. You know, we didn't see much of Andre before 18 months ago. We didn't see, you know, I spent time with Yannick the first time three days ago. Yeah, right. He's someone who's kind of coming. Operation successful. Right. Connecting generations.

[B]

Well, that's the thing as well that I really thought be so cool if, I mean, if I personally could spend time with Bjorn Borg. I mean, on a personal note, did.

[A]

You just do it for yourself?

[B]

That was actually a selfish move, the most selfish move I ever did. No, I mean, honestly, those things matter. And actually it's the little interactions, like maybe you meeting Yannick for the first time three days ago. Joo, you know, being in the locker room talking about the game with Andre Agassi, that's what I wanted, is that these players, when they come to the Labour cup and when they leave, they feel super inspired and motivated for what's to come. And they had here a little week at the Laver cup that really they learned something about the history of the game and who has again paved the way and just spend time together also and create a team that normally doesn't get a chance to spend time together or play on the same team. So it's gone much better than I would have ever thought. But it's true. We had to think this whole thing through in many different ways. Also. How did the points work? Friday, Saturday, Sunday, how long is the tournament? Is it a week? Is it three days, how many sessions, et cetera. So we have to think of every possible scenario. But it's been a fun process. You know, I like those kind of things.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And you've created this tennis festival. You mentioned the interactions and the generations. But also this is competition. There is an intensity here. Did you know that the players were going to buy in and it would have this kind of. Kind of heft?

[B]

Yes, I. That was. Yes. There was not going to be clowning around, giggling. We can do other things for that. We can go play an exo Together once and have a good time for that. But the good thing for me personally, of course, was also being part of the inaugural labor cup, being there, you know, in the. In the early years. So I could set the tone as well of how I would like it to be played, because I always feel if you, I don't know, buy a hefty ticket and you can watch the greatest players on earth play tennis, you want to see them play tennis and not make be a bad clown on the court now. So that's why I. So there is enough smiling. They're giggling, having great times, but when the ball is being hit, it needs to be hit with purpose and for a reason. And I think also to honor the great man like Rod Laver and the past generation. So that was definitely the goal for me, and I'm happy I was there to also be part of that process.

[A]

Yeah. And one of the things with success of an event is it creates an expectation. Can we do it again? And one of the things that I look around and think, when this concept was first announced, I'm going, well, sure, it's going to work. Because Roger could fill a building. People come to watch him. He's beloved around the world. Now to see it. All right, all right.

[B]

Don't do that. Andy doesn't want to hear this. And by the way, me neither, so.

[A]

Oh, I'm so sick of it. Still. No, but in all seriousness, you playing makes sense, right? We can fill a building to see how this thing has lived on past your participation. I have to think that probably was viewed okay, this is a speed bump. This is going to be a challenge when I take myself out of the building and we can't kind of be world's home team. It's another challenge. You have to be happy people like Carlos coming through and feeling that.

[B]

Very much so. Yeah. Look, I'm obviously incredibly pumped up that Carlos is here right after winning the US Open. I mean, it's amazing for the people here in San Francisco to get a chance to. To see him. And being on the team, it really. I mean, it means a lot because as we know, if you're a tournament organizer, you know, anybody can pull out last minute. There's no guarantees, you know, so that he's here and he's actually excited and the whole team is here. He didn't just come in all by himself, even though we also suggest that. So he completely immerses himself into the team environment aspect.

[A]

It's big.

[B]

And you're right. I mean, and the questions are Completely fair as well. Is the Laver cup going to be successful? You know, post Roger, when I'm not on the tennis court anymore. And those early years after my retirement also were a little bit tricky, you know, because the press were asking those questions, how is it going to go? Are the players going to show up? And you don't have the answer other than you say, I think so, and I hope so, you know, and I'm going to try my best with my contacts and we treat them nicely and the fans will appreciate it. And we'll hopefully be at the Chase center and have like the most incredible week. And you hope that that's enough, you know, and then of course, the change of cap, that's kind of a tiny risk because we're not going from John McEnroe and Bjorn Borg to just some random person. We're going to other legends like an Andre and Janik. And I'm happy that we navigated, it seems like now, well, through this process, which is great.

[A]

Talk us through some of the strategic factors. Obviously, I said that there was a vote for just to make it a residency in Chase center and just play it here every year. This, this crowd seemed to like it, but I said you might piss off earth if you do that. But talk through strategically about the impact, how you kind of vet where to go and where you're going to take this year to year.

[B]

Look, it's a decision or a discussion we have frequently with Tony and the team. It's obviously way easier to just say, like, okay, let's do San Francisco every year, because build up such a massive operation, just three days, is pretty crazy to do, you know. But I do think it's also, it's worth it to bring tennis to certain markets maybe, or certain cities that maybe haven't seen so much tennis in the past. So that's obviously one thing that resonated very heavily with me. Now I'm contradicting myself because we're going to London back next.

[A]

Is there tennis normally in London?

[B]

Well, that's. I'm not so sure. So we thought let's try it out and see if they like it. So, I mean, look, it's going to be great, you know, but of course, you could do several years here, several years in another place, or you always rotate between, let's say, I don't know, San Francisco and London. You could look at that or you could go to. Or you could go to the Grand Slam site that I think also would be amazing to host it around the four Grand Slam site. So. But, I mean, they obviously see. So we're still a little flexible on what it is, but. But for the time being, I think being here, being in London and then I don't know where we're going to go eventually would be amazing to go to maybe Asia, South America. Be nice to take this thing around the world.

[A]

You played your last match here at Laver cup, and we have. We have some footage that hopefully our team will roll here. But just talk through the emotions of, you know, obviously, I think you wanted to play more.

[B]

That was tough.

[A]

It's fine. He's Guy. He's still here. He still has great hair.

[B]

I'm a grown man. I mean, this. This is so long ago. I'm not like this anymore.

[A]

No, but like. But just walk through that weekend, because I know we were all. I mean, you ruined my life for a decade, and I was still emotional when I was watching it. Right. Like, and the fact that Rafa was there and that Novak was there and maybe imperfect, maybe not. What you. How quickly you wanted to retire based on, but health came for you at a certain point. Just walk through how special that experience was. And now you walk through this event knowing this was the last place that I played.

[B]

It is a process that I lived very vividly because I always knew that retirement for me was going to be really difficult, you know, because I. I mean, I love the sport, and it meant so much to me. The fans, the people working behind the scenes, and my family, my tennis friends and everyone. So it was going to be hard, you know, and I knew that, and I just didn't know where I was going to retire, you know, and my knee was getting so silly, and I realized I couldn't really come back anymore. So I took a summer break. And then I had to really almost just get out of the sport. But the question is, like, where was it going to be? And then I either looked at, I guess, US Open, Swiss Indoors in Basel, or Laver cup in London, and somehow something resonated with me that I didn't want to be alone on court when I retired. And the team aspect, I feel like I've always been a team player at heart, and doing it maybe in London, where I've maybe had some of my most successful, you know, matches. Maybe it's an omen. I don't know. And I ended up doing it there, and I just hoped it was not going to be all sad and just bad. I just hoped it was going to be happy and upbeat, and it was that. And it was way better than I ever thought it was going to be. So, yeah, walking around now, the labor cup sure brings back the memories and in a big way. Next year when we go back to the O2.

[C]

At least then you were just not alone that day. You were sharing a court with your. With your great rival, with Rafa. And now there's some murmurs out there.

[A]

Maybe a little fetter.

[D]

Nadal.

[B]

Well, we've been talking a while.

[A]

The test audience seems to like it.

[B]

Since maybe playing an exo, but I saw him in the summer, and I asked him when's the last time you played tennis? And it was in November, so he's not ready. We need to. I'm not ready, really. I guess to a certain level. But it would be nice to get on court together, not just with Rafa, but with you, Andy. Always anyone, really. Because I think it's nice to. To spread the love for tennis and inspire the young generation and be around the people. I don't know. I love it. So I had to take a bit of a break, you know, from just being on court, and maybe now it's time to maybe soon rip. The band laid off. I'm not sure, but I would love it. And maybe. Yeah, we'll see.

[A]

I gotta. Okay, so I know everyone, like, you always hear, yes, Roger. And this. Yes. Okay, I'm gonna shoot you straight. Tell me no one wants to see that shit, man.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm obviously joking. Everyone wants to see that. That would be amazing. So. So one of the things we. We sat down with Rafa on. On this show, and obviously his respect for you is. Is well documented, and I know that respect goes.

[B]

Was he good on the podcast, by the way?

[A]

He was fantastic. Oh, my gosh, he was.

[B]

I watched it, of course.

[A]

What are you talking about? I don't know. I don't know what you. I don't. I. I assume you're not. Not searching YouTube in your spare time. Like, never know.

[B]

I got time now, you know, but he was.

[A]

He was. He was fantastic. But you mentioned your knee, and then he mentioned his injuries, and it's like he took his. Like, just so everyone knows how hard the players are playing for you in there and how rough this is physically. He took his shoe off. It looks like there's an animal living inside of his foot. Like it is.

[B]

I know. I've seen it.

[A]

It's disgusting. It's like. I would say you should see it, but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It's absolutely disgusting. One thing that I think you have completely undersold is. I think a lot of players, when they get hurt, will put out an update every step along the way. I know that your knee went bad. Worst, really bad. I saw you in Boston in 21, the year before you retired, and you were hiding your crutches to take photos.

[B]

Yeah, those crutches don't need to be on the picture.

[A]

Your knee was terrible. But talk about kind of the. The mental gymnastics of being relatively healthy for your entire career and then having to deal with this kind of physicality for the first time. And it's not a new story. Athletes have to go through it. But what was your personal journey with it and how does it stand now? Are you.

[B]

It's a. It's a great question because I was always famous for. He's never injured, you know, he doesn't have.

[A]

Never retired from a match, by the way, is one of my favorite stats in tennis.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, once I got on court, I. I dealt with and finished it, even though many matches, I didn't feel perfect, you know, and I dealt with some, you know, back issues and hand stuff, foot things, but never to the extent like, the knee at the end. And it's really. Only once you've maybe had surgery or you're out for extended period of time, you really start being really unbelievably appreciative of how good you used to feel and how unworried you were running for a ball across the court and, like, stopping on a dime. All of a sudden, you're taking. You're thinking everything through, every possible moment of the match, you know, so everything changes in a massive way. And I've always been the. The kind of player or person that I didn't want my. Either my opponent or the world or the press needing to know about every step of the way of my injuries, but also to protect myself, you know, I guess to a certain level that my opponent doesn't know, like, okay, bad knee. Really bad knee. So I'm gonna make him run around. Whereas on the other side, Rafa was super honest about his issues, and I'd be like, why is he saying all of that? And me, I almost cannot get out of my chair with my bad back, but everybody thinks I'm perfect, so I don't know what's better or worse, you know, but you go about it in a different way. And it was definitely hard the last years, especially also navigating through the media, where I know I was maybe at 80% certain times, and, you know, they judge me at 100%, but I know I'm not. And it's hard for the team because everybody is trying to keep a very quiet way about it of how bad things really were. But look, at the end of the day, I still am incredibly grateful. I was. I had the most amazing career with a good and a bad body, like all the players did. It's just that all came together, really, at the. At the very end.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm struck that you're describing it, and then you think, wait, it was only three years ago that we were in London. It was only four years ago that you.

[A]

You had that.

[C]

That injury. And I'm wondering. Men's tennis looks quite different, at least in terms of names. When you're up there looking down on tennis today, what are you seeing? What are you noticing about men's tennis?

[B]

I think, yeah, even. Yeah, more baseline slugfest. You know, just more heavy hitting.

[A]

All slugfest.

[B]

It's full on, baby. And it's foreign. Goes big, backhand goes big. Forehand goes big, backhand, goes big. You know, back in the day, we used to have, you know, every player used to have a little hole in their, you know, in their. In their game where they were not me. I mean, our backhands to backhands were massive. We would slice it against each other, you know, so there was a bit of feel to it. But it's true, though. That's. I think, what I see now. And I think it's just getting more and more physical. And I think also everybody practices that way is they practice hitting hard like Agassi used to. I think he was one of the first to do that. Then Rafa came in. The same thing. Kind of guy you don't want to practice with, just going big all the time.

[A]

Explain that. This is actually very interesting because I've said this on the podcast before, and I think it's interesting. Rafa, when he like one during warm up, right, you'd be in the first five. I don't know. I think. I'm sure he did it against you too. But what he would do is he would hit the ball as hard as he could during warm up, and then all of a sudden, you'd be serving the first game of the match. 30 ball, 30 all. And he would have a 35 ball rally. And you had no rhythm. Yeah, Genius about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you couldn't practice them because the same thing.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. I really didn't like it. And same as Andre, actually. I didn't like practicing with Andre because it was just like, bang, bang, bang. And I'm thinking, well, it would be nice to roll a couple, hit a few, slice a few. And it's none of that, you know, and it's like three big shots and the fourth run just rockets past you like that. And anyway, that's not how I train, you know, that's also not how you do it. I mean, we have high intensity, but we do different things. So it's incredible, actually, how we all can practice and play in different ways and actually get to a successful place. So. Did I forget your question? Did you have a question? So, yeah, about how the game is evolving.

[C]

Two guys, obviously, that have taken the baton, and Carlos is Carlos.

[B]

I feel like there's great returning. I don't know. I feel like they return so easily nowadays.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I don't know if it's conditions that are a bit slower or they just better off it, you know, you see.

[A]

You don't see people just dump returns that often.

[B]

I mean, I feel like making returns was hard, you know, now they. I feel they stand there and they.

[A]

Go, yeah, it was. It was. It was. It was harder for most of us, too.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's why I slice, you know, I just get it in. You know, just float it in there and figure it out.

[A]

Do you. What do you think about. So as the game changes, obviously we saw like a. I don't want to say an overcorrection, but in the 90s, there was a lot of talk about the conditions are too fast, and we're basically just watching people walk back and forth because Becker serving huge and even Isovich is serving huge, and Pete's serving huge. And I actually remember our wimble, the. Our first two Wimbledon finals. I remember 04. You're coming in after the rain delay. You're coming in all the time. Like you used to make the adjustment. You start coming in all the time and then, oh, five. I'm like, okay. I'm expecting kind of the same. Because it worked for him. The conditions, I thought, were much slower to where you play that match. Mostly. Mostly the baseline. Right. Is there a need to correct court surface to bring in different elements of the game?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

I feel like you're on the fence.

[B]

I just had this conversation this morning, you know, with Riley Opelka. I told him it's not okay. And I fault myself because I part of the decision making of the court surface speed here. But it can't be that he's kick serving on the outside indoors against Casper Root Casper actually can go back, even has that option indoors to go return Riley serve, which is, you know, probably arguably one of the best serves in the game right now. And he returns it from hip height and just hit its cross court. Passing shot. Winner on the return on the break point. Yeah, I feel like it should be a little bit more difficult to be able to do that. And I think that's why we, the tournament directors or we need to fix it. We need to have not only fast court, but what we would want to see is Alcaraz or Sinner figured out on lightning fast and then have the same match on super slow and see how that matches up. And that's how the ranking points used to be. Remember back in the day, only 12 tournaments counted. So everybody would play on their favorite surface, they would stack their surfaces and then they would sometimes meet. And those were the best matches, you know, when you had the attacker against the retriever. And now everybody plays similar. It's because the tournament directors have allowed with the ball speed and the court speed that every week is basically the same. And that's why you can just go from winning, I don't know, French Wimbledon, US Open and just play the same way.

[A]

And obviously my bias is going to shine through here, but they. There's some tool and I'll forget what it is, but it's similar to like a step meter that measures greens and golf. Davis cup back in the day, they used to have that and there was. There was this little thing they used and it had to be basically measured if the court was too fast. And I said, that's, that's great, that's responsible. I go, now show me, show me the measurement for when it's too slow.

[B]

There's none.

[A]

Didn't exist. It didn't exist. Yeah, like we've never thought of that. I go, that's the problem, right? Like we need variation. We need variation. Because then, I mean, you're telling me someone like a Sinner or Alcaraz with how talented they are and how great they are already, they're going to figure it out and it's going to be more fun to watch.

[B]

I think so too. Obviously I understand the safety net that the tournament directors see making the surface slower is for the weaker player. He has to hit extra amazing shots to beat Sinner, whereas if it's quick, he can only maybe blast a few and at the right time and he gets passed, you know, so that's what the tournament director is like. Oh, I kind of like have Sinner and Alcaraz in the finals. You know, it kind of works for the game.

[A]

That's the thing. I was gonna say that. That's the entire thing is basically, you give a surface where, you know, it kind of exposes Carlos's paintbrush even more, where he has timing, he can play all the variety of shots. He's gonna win on slow, he's gonna win on fast.

[B]

But I think we'll get there again. I feel like.

[A]

I hope so. Yeah.

[B]

Well, I think we'll figure it out.

[C]

Let me ask you a big, sprawling, sweeping question. What's it like being Roger Federer in 2025?

[A]

What's. What's what? Yeah. What is. What is. What does. What is. What does a normal Tuesday look like now?

[B]

Yeah, I wake up much earlier than I ever thought I would. Yeah, the kids, you know, they get you out of bed. And before, I always had the experience excuse, like, ah, you know, practice late, finish whatever. I need to sleep in and all that stuff. And the body needs to recover. So now bang out of the gates, we get. We get up and get the kids ready for school or for activities, whatever it is. And then I go either do some. Some gym and fitness of myself. I have phone calls once.

[A]

I mean, you've let.

[C]

You've let me.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, just tighten that shit up a little bit, you know, just a. Just maybe.

[B]

Okay, I'll work on it. I'll work on it. Thank you, Andy. I'll tell you the truth, stupid.

[A]

Please don't. Please don't ask.

[C]

Ask him. Why. Why weren't you wearing a tie to the gala the other day?

[A]

Oh, stop it.

[B]

Because it was black tie. So. Black tie.

[A]

I've already told myself. I've already told.

[B]

I did see you with no tie actually on the. On the car.

[C]

You know, why I brought. Maybe Roger would like to know what happened.

[B]

What happened? A little thick around the neck or what?

[A]

Yep, from there. That's it.

[B]

Oh, man. Yeah, but I feel. That's a shirt.

[A]

I almost. I almost pulled a tricep trying to snap that thing around my neck. And I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna show I can get. I can leave whenever. And then Tony goes, oh, you're sitting with Roger and I. The table.

[C]

Oh, great.

[A]

This is perfect. This is. This is best case scenario. Yes, all good. I have a beefy neck, Roger. Okay, all right. Okay. You probably don't have to deal with that.

[B]

It's coming down also more and more.

[A]

Now, listen, we're all here enjoying this great game today at this great tournament. Because of the man to my left.

[B]

Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming.

[A]

And because of Rod Laver, and I'll say this, it's not easy to like someone so much who is responsible for so much of your pain at your job. Couldn't love you more, Roger. Appreciate you. Thanks for coming on, sir.

[B]

You're the best, Andy. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you. That's a wrap for us. Thanks for coming out to serve live. Thanks to ServiceNow for their support. ServiceNow wants to help people do the fulfilling work they actually want to do. Work like hosting this podcast. You know what people don't want to do? Boring, busy work. Now, with AI agents built into the ServiceNow platform, you can automate millions of repetitive tasks in every corner of your business. It, HR and more. So your people can focus on the work that they want to do. That's putting AI agents to work for people. It's your turn. Get [e-mail] AI agents.