JW (John Wertheim) (2:56)

That whole concept have you guys flown late. Like every single person in an airport on the plane, waiting on the plane in the lounge, everyone is on their phone. The idea that. So hi, I didn't see your email. The other thing you get, apart from the out of office response, as if no one gets their email until they get back into the office at 8 o' clock on Monday is, oh, I was buried. I just got in from out of town. I've been buried. Does no one check their email when they leave the office anymore?

Patrick McEnroe (3:23)

Honestly, if this show relied upon people being in an office, John Wertheim would do three shows a year. Yeah, we would be in the office. I know you are today, but it's just out of office reply. The office is where you are, right? I don't know, maybe don't respond till Monday, but I don't. Yeah, I can appreciate taking the weekend and especially when someone expects you to respond with urgency. With urgency and then they hit you with the out of office reply. Yeah, I have a hard time getting over that. But we know I'm petty. Yeah. Still. Well, anyways, racket rundown brought to you by Wilson. We'll jump right into it. Jannik Sinner takes back the world number one winning another Paris Masters. It's almost like we say he's winning and it's like, oh, it's like just water's wet. Yeah. Sinner wins again. FAA making a late run for World tour finals. Currently sits just. Musetti can beat him if he gets to what, the semis or finals of something like that. 250. But he is outside looking in or sorry, inside out. Whatever. Musetti wins enough matches the 250 he's in over FAA and FAA is choosing not to play the 250 to get in himself. Not taking a wild card to pursue that spot. I think we can talk about that more a little bit Later, Vicki and Boco wins huge in Canada at the 1000. Massive story. Then kind of struggles a little bit for the first time of the year. You know that we talk about pitchers coming up for the minor leagues and you know, all of a sudden can their arm handle 200 innings? Right. I think that's a rational thing to ask about someone like Vicki Mboco, who between the tours, minor league and you know, the main tour, won 60 matches this year. Techie Sean. But then finishes strong. Yeah, I feel like she needed that. You know, I think the season unraveled a little bit after, after Canada, I think there were some, some injuries. She lost in the first round. Four straight events. Yeah. And so I think this was a really good kind of reestablishment for her to finish the year. Beating Buchs in the final, beating her country, win Layla Fernandez in the semis, which is always a big thing when you're playing. Maybe the person who is the best player from your country right before you, Justin Novak is going to play in World Tour finals, which is good news for everyone. Does anyone, you know, ever, ever get it wrong? Does it ever go sideways when Novak is, is, is, is in a tournament? Absolutely not. You know, you want him. He's the most accomplished player of all time. Happy trails to Rohan Bopana. Shutting it down after 22 years on tour. Crazy. Is that right? That's what I'm reading. Man got number one in the world for the first time at 4,44 years old. Just generally well liked on tour. Responsible citizen. Has done a lot as much off the court, if not more than he did on the court. So happy trails. Happy other side with Bopana. JW thoughts?

JW (John Wertheim) (6:39)

Yeah, I don't know if you ever, I mean, you would have overlapped a little bit. I mean, one of the ways he sort of first got on my map is he's from India and he played doubles with a Pakistani partner, with Sam Qureshi. And in his 40s, he's winning majors. You know who else retired officially? Nicholas Mahou, age 43, also a Grand Slam doubles champion. So we have two accomplished doubles players. One thing I love about Nicholas Mahou is he played that match against John Isner and you sort of figured this guy could cure cancer and he would still be known as the guy who lost the longest tennis match of all time. The fact that he became the standout doubles player, won Olympic medals, I think he won the career major in doubles. This guy really redefined himself after that long match. He got a nice send off at Paris as well. So, yeah, two. Two titans of doubles, Both in their 40s, both retired this week.

Patrick McEnroe (7:36)

I always realize I retired really young when we're announcing Mahout's retirement and we were in juniors together. I've been gone for 13 years. That's crazy. Happy trails, though. Yeah, I mean, obviously most well known for the mania around the match with Ezner, but probably the most accomplishment, you know, on the doubles tour, great grass court player like to come forward. Almost a bit of a throwback, right. Caught in the middle of the Luxelon generation. But happy trails to Bopana and Nicholas Mahout. Big story of the week. Sabalenka 52 week, end to end. I didn't even know these stats that you're coming up with. The producer, Mike Tennis guy, wire to wire. Wire to wire. He gives me the all the people that have done wire to wire and how many times they've done it. I mean, you are just a nerd. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Google. I don't. I don't think that I had ever really thought about wire to wire before, but now I'm kind of obsessed with it. Sabalenka goes wire to wire. Obviously still playing in their tour finals, but up to 59, 11 on the year, four titles, obviously saving. It's weird to say saving your season when you're 52 week number one, but I think that's an interesting conversation, is how when you get to a certain level of greatness, you kind of redefine expectations a little bit. Like, we didn't have a lot of forgiveness for her losing in Grand Slam finals. And then you're looking at back at the year and you're going, okay, what person on earth wouldn't take 59, 11, four titles, a Grand Slam? Two other Grand Slam finals running at 52 week number one. Chrissy did it twice. Martina did it three times. Stephie Graff did it five times. Serena did it twice. Ashbard did it twice with a bit of an asterisk because the rankings were frozen in 2020, so a little bit different. But JW just talk about kind of the progression of, of. Of Sabalenka, right? And going kind of right through the end of Ash Barty. She was the dominant player when she retired. Wiatek takes over. And then, I mean, arena is just carving out just such a, such a big legacy in this game to the point where she loses a couple of Grand Slam finals to great players and we're like, what's happening? Can she save her season going into the US Open, she's literally been ranked number one the entire year.

JW (John Wertheim) (9:58)

But this is, it's interesting because the 52 week, the wire to wire, which actually thinks kind of an interesting stat. We can talk about that in a bit with the men which, which did not have this wire to wire. But no, I mean it talks a lot about her consistency, it talks about her ability on all surfaces. But when you're number one to start the year and you've won two majors the previous year and you don't win any of the first three, I think it's kind of reasonable to say, can she salvage her season? I mean, I think she would say it's at some level as well. I mean players are playing to win majors and she has a great match in Australia. She's the double defending champion and Madison Keys nips her out. Okay, fair enough. She wins the first set at Roland Garros against Coco and then what happens? She sort of retreats, doesn't perhaps comport herself as she wish she had in the trail and it turns up being a really sort of a bitter tournament. Doesn't get the job done at Wimbledon and then goes to the US Open with a fair amount of pressure and to her great credit takes the title. Things seem to be stabilized as we speak. Right now she seems to be in pretty good shape in Riyadh. This is a generational player. She's in the prime of her career. I think she does things right. We haven't even talked about, we've talked about this in the past. But I still think her recovery from those serving yips is one of the great underrated stories in tennis in the last five years or so. But no, I mean, this is a player sort of playing tennis at its most elevated level. And I think we'll see what these next few years bring if she wins double digit majors. That would not surprise me at all. Things are really clicking and you sort of, you look back at her career and at first it was like, man, she had such a, she has no plan B, she's got no margin built in her game. It's all sort of, it's hit or miss tennis. And then she made some adjustments and now you almost look back and you say, man, if she had closed out a couple of those matches, this might be an eight time, nine time major champion. As it stands, I suspect she'll get there in the end. I mean, if she's still in her mid to late 20s, she should be okay here. But no, I mean, we can talk about what do you make of this goal line to goal line. I mean, to me, that sort of says a lot on a lot of levels. But what do you make of number one January 1st? Number one December 31st?

Patrick McEnroe (12:14)

Yeah. I mean, it means. Well, also, you look at the 59 match wins going in, it's a weird thing because you'll look back at kind of the. And she's going to be judged against the greatest seasons in history and the greatest players in history. Now she's entered that conversation where the only way you can talk about her is amongst giants. Right? Like giants of our. Of our game. 59 match wins isn't going to be in the top 10. 20 most match wins ever. But then producer Mike and I were looking. She's not even playing small tournaments. Like, so to your point, JW, she's end to end, number one. And also, she didn't even play a 250. She played three five hundreds. And she's basically having this level of consistency. Only playing 1000s in Grand Slams. She made eight finals in 15 tournaments. Yeah, I mean, she just. She's. She's the most reliable player on tour. And I don't know that there's a close second for. For 20, 25. And I think this is the first time we've been able to say that. Right. Because IGA has always been, you know, super consistent. Ash Barty before that was super consistent. And then you're going back to Serena. But I think it just speaks to another layer of progression where it's like, hey, did I hit my top end as much as last year? I don't know. Maybe not. But is my average Tuesday better than it's ever been? Yeah, I think it is. You know, so I think that's the progression of Sabalenka. But I'm glad you brought up kind of her serving struggles. I mean, we don't even hardly talk about it now, or we only talk about it in the context of. Of Coco and like a reason for hope and an example and precedent of kind of getting past the bout of serving yips. But if we go back four years, when she's in the throes of that three or four. Four years, whatever it was. And I tell you, okay, she's run out this career. She's won this many majors and she's done it all, there's never been a hint of revisiting the serving problems to the point where now you erase it. Even with people that have struggled with their serve. If it's. Zverev had it five years ago and he hits a double fault at 30, all in a big. And we automatically think about it, or at least I do. Maybe that's unfair. Coco, the same thing. I don't even think about it with her anymore. It doesn't even register as a possibility. And also, if you go back that many years and say she's won this many Grand Slams and still hasn't won Wimbledon, which she will.

JW (John Wertheim) (14:50)

She will.

Patrick McEnroe (14:51)

Like, I think as we're sitting here today, you know, she. She might even just be the early favorite for next year. She's just building a hell of a resume, you know, And I think we can't get lost. And I talk about. Like we talked about Sinner off the top. He wins a Masters event, we're like, oh, yeah, because that's what he does every week. Right. It doesn't make. It. Doesn't make it less difficult, but I think we're starting to almost. And it's almost a tip of the cap that we. We take her success for granted a little bit to where she loses a final. We're like, what happened? Do you know how good you have to be at a sport to lose to make the finals of two Slams, the first two out of the gate for the year? And everyone's going, what's happening?

JW (John Wertheim) (15:30)

Yeah, right, right.

Patrick McEnroe (15:31)

Do you know how good you have to be at that? I mean, that's. That's. It's kind of crazy to think about, right? J.W. yeah.

JW (John Wertheim) (15:37)

And I would go, I don't know. I always have mixed feelings about going here. We keep this about the tennis, but I do think athletes are people and they have the same Confronting the same sort of challenge. Here's someone who. She lost her father. She lost a former intimate partner. She's from a country that sort of backslid into. I mean, there's a lot going on here. And what do we know about her? She's a good time. She smiles. One of my favorite quotes of the year, after she lost to Coco and had that disappointing Roland Garros final, and she's going to go drink tequila and eat gummy bears on a beach. What do we know about her? She's got a good attitude. She's fun. She's got a good spirit. She's got this generosity of energy, of spirit. There potentially were a lot of roadblocks these last few years, and for her to just sort of surmount them, keep going. She's kept her team intact. This is a great doubles player. There's a lot to admire here. I would submit she is number one goal Line and goal line. And still, in a weird way, at least to the general sports public, an underrated figure. You buy that?

Patrick McEnroe (16:40)

I buy that. And also, I think she's a shining example of leaning into your own personality. Right. We actually talked about it with her on the show. I think she came on. It was actually right after Tour Finals last year, and it was kind of like, she's unapologetic about, I never in my life, ever, ever, ever, if I was in a Grand Slam final, would have my coach show up with the tattoo of a tiger on his head. Like that distraction. And she's like, no, it was funny. It's a good time. And I just. I think she's a prime example of the criticisms or not, but observations about her game, right? Where you become good enough, and people say, well, why aren't. Why doesn't she want to slam? I don't know. There's inconsistency. She's maybe a bit of a hothead. And now she's a bit of a hothead, but she's also the most consistent entity we have in the women's side of the game. Right. McEnroe operated very differently than Pete. Right. Monica Seles operated very differently from Serena Williams. I think this whole thing where I remember these kind of tropes from the early 90s, when dealing with mental toughness is like, okay, you gotta be calm. You always have to be positive. That's the only way. And I think figures like Sabalenka are kind of just flipping those on its head. It's like, no, you can be imperfect as long as that leads to better more often. Right. I think she's kind of flipped it on its head. And she's a great example of kind of playing to your own strengths, not apologizing for the way you are. After the French, she came out and said she kind of owned it. And we came on and we said, that was not great. It was beneath her. And what did she say the next week? She's like, that's not great. I don't want to act like that. Like, all right, well, someone comes on and kind of owns it and calls Coco and confronts it personally, and it doesn't feel like a show with her. I think there's a level of authenticity that I've really, really, really grown to respect.

JW (John Wertheim) (18:45)

Totally agree. No, she's great. And I think when she looks back, yeah, she'll say, boy, I wish I could have pulled that out against Matty Keys. And I had that Roland Garro, and I took my foot off the gas. But you know, what solid year she was, who she was, she should be happy with. She should really, really be happy with things.

Patrick McEnroe (19:09)

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JW (John Wertheim) (20:11)

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Patrick McEnroe (20:12)

A mustache on his upper lip. Get him an electric razor. Amazon has early holiday deals on gifts everyone wants, like the latest kitchen gadgets.

JW (John Wertheim) (20:21)

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Patrick McEnroe (20:26)

Grab him a mirror too, so he.

JW (John Wertheim) (20:28)

Can see how pretty he is without.

Patrick McEnroe (20:29)

That dirt on his lip. As we kind of talk about different personalities in tennis, I think you kind of get exposure to the way that certain brains, minds, brilliant players kind of handle the end of the year a little bit differently. Obviously you know Carlos with the US Open and you know that all time performance against Jannik and then the end of the year indoors has proven to be. And this is judging Carlos against his own shadow, which is enormous, right? So this isn't judging Carlos against most people. This is judging Carlos against superhuman. Carlos seems to kind of have a hard time finishing the year where he's a guy who relies on electricity from the crowd. He likes the atmosphere, he likes the show, he likes being an entertainer. And then you get to this part of the season where you know you're outside for like four minutes of daylight every day, right? Like you're walking into the venue and it's light and then you're walking out of the venue and every place you're playing is it's dark at 4:15 and you know, it feels like hopefully I say this correctly, but Sinner is maybe better suited, personality wise to go in, get the job done, leave where Carlos maybe needs to get inspired a little bit more. Maybe that's a reach, I don't know. But also I don't think it's nothing. The fact that Carlos is kind of admittedly and this isn't, this isn't my opinion. So save your, save your things. But Carlos saying like I'm beat up, I'm mentally exhausted, it's a long season. Whereas you're not hearing that as much from Sinner and people are like, oh well, there's a big difference between the two and I'm going, oh. Or one had three months off during the year.

JW (John Wertheim) (22:14)

JW yeah, I was wondering where you were going. It's an interesting. I want to go back to what you were saying about sort of the spirit and the energy because I think that's not something you hear. Yeah, I mean I was going to say it's a lot easier to finish strong when you've had a self imposed 90 day break and didn't play a match between Australia and Rome. I mean the consistency of both these guys before Alcarez lost that match to Cam Nori, you know, kind of a lefty, tricky, metal, you know, sort of a nettlesome opponent who can. That was the first time Carlos entered an event between Miami and now and didn't at least reach the final or win. That's an interesting thought though. I mean, you know, Nadal didn't tend to finish particularly strong either. But I think that was much more about just sort of the physical wear and tear and then X months of hard courts. I do think it's interesting there not a lot of indoor tennis being played in Spain, so maybe that has something to do with it. But do you think that's, that's an interesting point. I mean did you sense that when you play and. Yeah, exactly. It gets dark very early now in Europe and you're playing indoors and the crowds, it's not Carlos's energy.

Patrick McEnroe (23:20)

Well, it's also before but also the people who are super like you go indoors and depending on how the court is laid down every week you're playing, it's a not native tennis arena. Or you go to Arthur Eye Stadium and that's a native tennis arena. It was built for tennis. You go to Roland Garris, it was built for tennis. You Go to Wimbledon, it was built for tennis. You go to Indian Wells, it's built for tennis. You go into these indoor kind of fabricated, you know, putting this, it's either built on wood or it's just a temporary surface. The bounce is normally muted. You don't get as much value for being able to be creative. Right. The bounce is muted. So Carlos trying to flip a lob up over someone's head and then play down and mixing up, it doesn't track as much. Same with Rafa. You know, Rafa ripping spin over someone's shoulders, all of a sudden that's just slightly below their shoulders. That changes everything, right? So I think surface dependency is, is one part of it. And then I think that layering into, you know, do I care the most? And not not saying like they're dismissive of it or they're not putting an effort because these guys are all effort. But just am I already kind of peeking through to next year? You know, Carlos, you feel like he's hanging on just to try to hang on to that number one ranking and it's going to come down to the finals.

JW (John Wertheim) (24:40)

How much? I mean, the obvious answer here is it's case by case basis depend on context. But once you've become number one, how much do you care about being number one? I mean, I'll just talk about sort of Carlos has to do X and Jannik's defending his title at the finals. Once these guys have already been number one, do they really care about getting it back?

Patrick McEnroe (25:04)

Here's what I would say. I would say they probably care about at zero on a week to week basis during the season. So May, June, July, it's a moving target. Once you've been number one and you're number two by 10 points, I don't know, are you worse than you were a week ago? Probably not. I think year end number one holds a certain amount of prestige and especially when these two are eyes wide open on we are going to be the two guys like you. I know, Pete, I know how many times specific players have finished year on number one. It is a big prestigious number that only a few can talk about and understand. And so I think, you know, say.

JW (John Wertheim) (25:48)

It, I'll guess you've said, you know, you're one of them.

Patrick McEnroe (25:51)

Well, sure, but I'm going to get to my personal story like at the end of the year, kind of grinding through with that carrot. But yeah, I do think it, it matters to them. I don't think it's as simple as during the year. If You've been number one and all of a sudden you're number three. You probably just care about Slams. But I think, listen, we both are in striking distance. We both have a legitimate path to number one. I think you said Carlos, if he sweeps around Robin, he gets it back on Monday once because ranking. So center won World Tour finals. The first time I won is because points fell off or I got to number one is becomes because points fell off. Okay. And to your point jw, I got to number one and I wanted to finish the year number one. Like I was almost more heavily motivated to finish number one than to just get there. But they both have a pass. Center's points fall off. Carlos is going to be number one going in, has to win either sweep around Robin, make finals, you know, to, to secure the number one ranking for, for the year. But yeah, I think year end ending the year number one matters. Now what, what'll be interesting is let's say Carlos somehow sweeps the round robin. My personal experience with 03, I think I ended up winning 70 plus matches that year. It was like I didn't take a lot of weeks off. Burned by the end. Like you were feeling like a hollow soul of emotion and everything else. And I personally, I listened to. There were three of us that went into that tournament with a chance at number one, Roger Ferrero and myself. Roger had the narrowest one. I think once I had won a match or two, he was gone. And then Ferrero had a look at the basket and my personal experience was listening on a cell phone because that was before you had like the live app updates and everything. A friend of mine was in the stadium in Houston at World Tour Finals. Agassi was playing Ferrero third set. I'll get some of the details wrong. Basically I'm listening to Agassi serve the match out and if he serves it out, then I'm number one. So I'm literally listening to Andre serve the match out. I hear the crowd go crazy and I have that moment where it's like it's done. That's awesome. You're year end number one and like the nature of your childhood idol securing your. I was about to say that was pretty cool. A funny story was then to your point JW of like these emotional sets at the end of the year, I didn't even, I wasn't even thinking about winning in Houston when I went there. I was thinking about winning this match. Securing number one. Securing number one. Secured number one. If you'd have told me you could win this Is not statistically possible, but you could win that tournament. I didn't. I didn't even. It wasn't even as if I was thinking about an entire week. I was like, let's wrap this thing up. Let's win your group. Let's so win a couple matches. Andre closes. I lose to Rainer Shuttler the day after I become number one. And I felt like I was just searching for something. It felt. It was a day match. I show up. I know that there's this big presentation after I play that match that's going to give me the world number one trophy. Ex President Bush, the OG Bush, not w. Lived in Houston and was always at the tennis. And he agreed to present me with the number one trophy. And so this is an aside, but it's a good story. And so he comes out and he's like, oh, congratulations and tough one today. And he was there watching. And I'm like, yeah, I don't think I had it. And so we do a couple of photos and there's. I mean, sure, you can Google it and see it, but he always had a sense of humor. He's funny, dude. And so we had to hold up like the number one finger. Like we, you know, finished number one. And he looks. He whisked, kind of leans over and kind of covers up his mouth. And then he goes. He goes, well, after your match this afternoon, I bet you want to give everyone a different finger, don't you? Which I thought was. I think I found the picture of it. I thought it was. It was pretty good. Look at that. You're laughing and he's just. That's it. That's exactly. I'm laughing. And he's laughing because he realized he just got off. We'll put it up on screen. We'll put it up on screen. He just hit me with it. But he was a good sport. But to your point, jw, it's like. It's like these weird emotions and dealing with end of year and it's like, FAA this week is a perfect example. You were. What did you ask me before he came on, jw? Something about, oh, yeah, what is he.

JW (John Wertheim) (30:32)

We should talk about him. But I don't know if you saw that he reaches the finals at a very. Another really nice week. I mean, man, put that guy indoors. His results since, like after, ironically enough, after leaving Canada. He's played top five tennis since. Since leaving Canada. Another good result, got to the final. And then he says, you know what? I'm one out of Turin, but I'm not going to play. I'm a little beat up. I'm not going to play this 250. So if Musetti loses, Felix is in. If Musetti loses early. And my question to you is, what does a guy like that do you, do you think he just goes to like Amsterdam and lays low for the week?

Patrick McEnroe (31:11)

Yeah, it's a weird one. It's almost not enough time. And these are all like, and I like this example and I like this question because it's kind of representative, representative of what you do at the end of the year as, as a, as a player and especially as a top player. It's not enough time to go home. The way I would kind of go through this as, as if I'm FAA is okay. I don't need a lot of reps. I've, I've played nothing but matches the last, you know, two months since the US Open. And by the way, he was ranked seated 28 or 30 or something at the USA Open and now he's, you know, almost qualified for World Tour Finals. So that is, will show you what a, what a ripper he's been on. I think you find some place that you want to go and I think you take your entire training team. So maybe not a coach. I don't think he's going to go there and want to hit a ton of balls.

JW (John Wertheim) (32:02)

Right.

Patrick McEnroe (32:02)

I don't think he needs to find a groove on his serve or, you know, anything like that. I think you go almost say, okay, let's, let's get my body healthy. He talks about how he's beat up. He's probably getting treatment three or four hours a day where even if he doesn't get the nod and get into World Tour finals, they've started that kind of off season rehab situation. He's not going to go do a ton of fitness. So I think you basically go and treat your body somewhere. I don't know if that's Amsterdam. I don't know if there's any place warm that he can get to or where he lays on a beach for four hours a day and then does body treatment for four hours a day. That's where my mind would go. It's like, okay, I could use a three day reset even if I'm going to go play in Turin. Right. That, that is where my mind would go. I don't know what he decided, but those are all those mini decisions. Can I get home for four days? Is that worth it? Is that worth the body clock toll? Do I want to stay Here in a place for six days on the off chance that I get into this tournament. But that's kind of is. Is Novak going to play? Right. I feel like he almost had to stay back until he realized what Novak was going to do. Now Novak's playing. He's, you know, a spotless. When. No, if Novak pulls out, he's. I mean, he's basically. He's in. Right. That's. That's a. That's a wrap. I mean, Craig, me. FAA is. He lives in Monte Carlo. Right. So, I mean, it's not like it's that big of a hike from France. Yeah. So maybe you go home, he just goes home. Right. You go with your team. But I point being, I think he's going to. His feet are going to be up or he's going to be on a flat table getting treatment, getting the body ready. You're not going to go into physical. There's not enough time to do a ton of gym to prep. Like three or four days in between is not enough to make much of a difference. The tank is on empty. He's played so many matches and I think this is a responsible decision. Right. If your body's wrecked. And by the way, he got married, right? Oh, after the US Open.

JW (John Wertheim) (33:59)

Personal stuff. He's got. He's got thank you notes.

Patrick McEnroe (34:01)

Exactly. Like he got married and then went and qualified for Turin and made up 25 spots in the rankings. Like, I mean, pretty. Yeah. Pretty good effort. So, yeah, I gotta think the, you know, he's just kind of wait and see mode. I would be so relaxed about it. You know, there's almost some freedom in providing the clarity where, hey, listen, I did what I did as much as I could do. Out of my hands. Musetti goes and gets it this week. That's kind of too good. And you know, leave it to the tour for me to say no one ever qualifies through a 250. And Musetti is probably going to do it this week.

JW (John Wertheim) (34:33)

But not next year.

Patrick McEnroe (34:37)

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JW (John Wertheim) (35:03)

Why are you still living above our garage?

Patrick McEnroe (35:05)

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JW (John Wertheim) (35:34)

Hey, let me give you a quick digression. Since you brought it up. It was a little far afield, but you mentioned Novak. I'm fascinating, and I know this is sort of value neutral. I know. But I don't know if you saw, he's playing in Greece, and then apparently an hour ago, the Italian federation said he's committed to Turin. Name me another athlete more closely associated with their country than Djokovic is with Serbia. Right. He wins that gold medal, and they have a parade for him like he won the World Series. When I was in Belgrade last year, there was a huge mural of the guy. The fact that Novak Djokovic doesn't live in Serbia anymore, that his mural has been defaced. And here is a country that seems to be sort of rolling back democracy and their student protests, and they're trying to figure out their relationship with Russia. The fact that Novak Djokovic doesn't live in Serbia. I find that a fascinating story that really hasn't gotten much coverage.

Patrick McEnroe (36:29)

That's all. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great topic for conversation. I'll say this. I don't know that I have. And these aren't stances that I always agree with, and maybe not even most of the time. And also, I have so much respect for Novak. For if he says something out loud and he believes it, he actually believes it. Like, he will go to the. I mean, he will move to Greece because of his belief system, Right. And up. Uproot everything. Like, so you have to respect that one way or the other. And that's probably. I mean, that says a lot about why he's been able to do what he's done for so long. Right. Everyone believed that Roger and Raf were the best, and no one, you know, was gonna. No one was gonna break that. And he goes, I believe I can. And he did. Right. And there are a lot of moments that maybe not everyone agrees with, and they become polarizing. And also, he fully commits when he says and believes Something. So at some point, you gotta respect that. I mean, there are a lot of people who will say something, and I even might agree with that thing, but then they don't act on it, right? So then the respect kind of dies out because it's the easy thing to say and a harder thing to do. He does the harder thing. He acts what he says all the time. Like, not some of the time, pretty much all the time. But, yeah, I mean, if we talk about the. I mean, I think we have to address things that happen off the court with players, because there's a direct effect on what we see. You know, if on. On the court, especially at the end of the year, it's like, imagine, I don't know how close he is to retirement. I don't know that anyone does. We know that he's close to the finish line than he is to the beginning, Right? We know that, you know, we probably won't see him in three years out on tour. And also, it's like, okay, I know I might have a year or two left, and I'm going to uproot my entire family, move schools and move to a new place in the middle of this kind of sunset of my career because I believe something and because it's controversial. And I don't know if I'm. If I'm. If I'm Serbian. And I mean, this guy's on the short list of all time. I think of Pele in Brazil, right. I think of Michael Jordan in this country. He is the biggest thing that possibly has ever existed in his country and is more closely tied with his country. There have been. Carlos Alcaraz. Rafa came before him. Right. I mean, there have been these huge names, but for what he's done in tennis, that he's created a legacy of tennis in this country that's new and that is changing. And he's defined so much of the culture and especially the sporting culture there. It's sad to see it stinks. I'm sure he's not crazy about it. He has also always shown up and played for Serbia, Olympics, Davis cup, when he hasn't had to. No one at this age, no one would blame him for not showing up for Davis cup for the last 10 years. And he has. Right. So it's an unfortunate situation. But listen, you've done profiles. You've been as close to him as any journalist with profiling him in 60 minutes, doing the COVID story for SI. Like, what's your take on it?

JW (John Wertheim) (40:11)

I think you're right. This is A man of conviction. I think this is a really good complicated situation since the breakup of UK and I'm no expert on sort of Balkan politics, but this is a new country. He is probably the single figure most closely aligned with this country. I do think one, just big picture. I don't know how we went down this route. I blame myself for taking us down this rabble. I think it's an important topic. I also think one thing I will say, this is a story that will age really, really well. And no one's going to give a shit about yelling at a box or breaking a racket. People are gonna look back at this guy and his longevity. What you said, what he has done for sort of for competitive, for mental strengths and for what we think about competitive instincts. And this is a man of conviction. And I don't know the specific. I mean I've sort of done the, you know, done the cursory Google search. It sounds like he is on the side of the pro democracy student movement that has put him in the crosshairs of the government. Big picture. I think the Novak Djokovic story is one that's going to, I think that's going to wear pretty well. I think it's going to age well and I wouldn't be surprised if he returns to Serbia. But to me it's just remarkable. I mean you said Pele, I think that's a good comp. I mean imagine Pele renouncing Brazil. I mean the fact that Novak Djokovic, whatever, we are 16 months from winning Olympic gold and he's getting this multi day parade in Serbia and now he doesn't live there anymore, I think is a really wild story.

Patrick McEnroe (41:38)

Yeah, I think the time passing will be very kind to the story and I think it'll, it'll make it even, even bigger. But it's, it's amazing to think like we open the show, it's like, oh, he's decided to play Turin. That's like the 77th most important decision that he's made this week. You know, that's, that's, that's nothing compared to kind of the macro that you're talking about. Jw. But lots of good stuff happening. I look forward to the rest of the Women's World Tour finals. I think that's been absolutely fantastic. I think four different winners of four Slams this year. I think we're in an era of parody in spite of someone being number one for end to end. As much parity as you can have with someone being that consistent. JW thanks for coming on today. In closing, I want to kind of talk about a little bit about this tennis universe in orbit. And I think we all know, we all know our favorite players. We know the general ins and outs of the sport. We get lost in it sometimes, you know, I can simultaneously, you know, not like parts of Holgaruna's game or not like, you know, certain parts of it. And then something crazy happens with an injury, and a lot of it doesn't matter. There's this fabric that we don't know what it is. I think it's shared experience of traveling around. And I'll say, I've met so many people through this game throughout the years that don't even have anything to do with tennis. And I'm so full of gratitude for that experience. One of those people was a guy named Stephen Little who was a London cab driver. And he picked me up. He picked me up. I was first time in Europe. Picked me up on the side of a Road probably 20 plus years ago. Couldn't have been more gracious, couldn't have been more kind. Ended up being a lifelong friend. His, his son Paul has worked for us for, for many, many years. I lost my passport when I was a kid. He knew where to take me to the embassy. Ended up working for us at Wimbledon for a long, long time. So, you know, it's one of those everyday stories of young athlete meets cab driver, and it forms a lifelong friendship and a lifelong bond. We lost him this morning. Just a giant of a man, one of the kindest. In looking back now, I know I'm 43, I have my own kids, I'm a full grownup, and I've generally tried to make the right decisions. But I think that's a melting pot of examples that have been set for you. I was lucky to be able to watch Stephen with his family, with his son, his curiosity about people hearing his stories about who would jump into his cab. And he was always the guy to strike up a conversation. He became a small part of the tennis world when London season came around. I know James Blake would use him sometimes to drive around. I know Jim Currier would use him for airport pickups. But since I've heard the news this morning, I've kind of just been thinking back and have been full of gratitude for all those people that you kind of meet along the way and the exposure to different cultures and different people and people who do different things and someone who comes and volunteers for a tournament and, you know, you remember the locker room attendant in D.C. or you remember the kids who worked underground in the locker room and all that they did for you in Cincinnati. And so as Stephen has passed and we've kind of shared stories with my coaches and and everyone else today, and we've kind of been sharing those fond memories, I just feel so much gratitude for having been around the earth and met all these people. No one bigger than Steven Little, which is weird to say because a giant of a man, last name Little, but he was certainly everything but. Love the little family. I'll miss you, Stephen. Thanks for watching Served Nobody knows your customers better than your team, so give them the power to make standout content with Adobe Express. Brand kits make following design rules a breeze, and Adobe quality templates make it easy to create pro looking flyers, social posts, presentations and more. You don't have to be a designer to edit campaigns, resize ads and translate content. Anyone can in a click and collaboration tools put feedback right where you need it. See how you can turn your team into a content machine with Adobe Express, a quick and easy app to create on brand content. Learn more@adobe.com Express Business AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built on. With the ServiceNow AI platform, your AI data and workflows all work together, connecting every corner of your business. To see how you can put AI to work for people people, visit servicenow. Com AI agents.