Zeynep Sönmez on Social Media Toxicity, Turkish Fame, & Alex Eala | Love All w/ Kim Clijsters

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Zeynep Sönmez on Social Media Toxicity, Turkish Fame, & Alex Eala | Love All w/ Kim Clijsters"

Podcast: Served with Andy Roddick
Episode Title: Zeynep Sönmez on Social Media Toxicity, Turkish Fame, & Alex Eala | Love All w/ Kim Clijsters
Date: March 11, 2026
Host(s): Kim Clijsters, Blair Henley
Guest: Zeynep Sönmez (with mentions of Andy Roddick, Jon Wertheim, Alex Eala, Maria Sakkari, Ons Jabeur)
Theme: Navigating tennis, mental health, social media toxicity, celebrity in emerging tennis countries, and the evolving culture of women’s tennis

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Love All" features rising Turkish tennis star Zeynep Sönmez. The conversation delves into Zeynep’s experience navigating professional tennis amid growing expectations in Turkey, her relationship with fame, the mental health challenges stemming from social media and public scrutiny, and the supportive dynamics on tour—especially her friendship with Alex Eala. The discussion is rich with honest reflections, tactical tennis insight, and thoughtful advice about resilience and growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

A. Indian Wells Recap, Tour Life & Setting the Stage

[01:06–04:35]

• Kim and Blair discuss their weekends and Indian Wells highlights, including tennis fashion.
• Introduction of Zeynep Sönmez’s interview later in the episode, with anticipation about her dynamic personality and on-tour popularity.

B. Tennis Fashion and Culture

[04:45–07:59]

• Kim admires Naomi Osaka’s unique on-court fashion and individuality.
  • “I love that she brings that storytelling kind of factor to the tennis tour.” – Kim Clijsters [05:25]
• Talk about Arina Sabalenka’s engagement ring and playing with it, with a humorous comparison of ring vs. puppy size.

C. Indian Wells Drama & Emotions on Tour

[08:37–13:04]

• Recap of Katerina Siniakova vs. Mira Andreeva:
  • Match filled with drama, broken rackets, coaching team walkout, crowd interaction.
  • Memorable crowd moment: Andreeva shouts “F you all” after frustrating loss.
  • Discussion about the normalcy and challenges of dealing with youthful emotion and pressure on the WTA Tour.
  • “Do I think it’s always the best for them? No… But I do think it’s fun to watch.” – Kim Clijsters [10:54]

D. Threats, Social Media, and Gambling

[13:05–16:19]

• Recent threats to WTA and ATP players and their families via WhatsApp, with gambling implications.
• The increasingly darker side of player exposure and the urgent need for tech-led solutions.
  • “There’s so many smart people… they gotta come up with something so that... it’s not just in tennis, it’s every sport.” – Kim Clijsters [14:22]

E. In-Depth Analysis: Naomi Osaka's Postpartum Tennis

[16:19–21:32]

• Kim breaks down Osaka’s strengths and areas for improvement, especially post-maternity comeback:
  • Fitness and ball-striking nearly at pre-motherhood levels.
  • Suggests Osaka could benefit from playing doubles to add dimension and comfort at net.
  • Observes difference between Osaka and big hitters like Sabalenka/Rybakina.
  • Tennis at the top is now about “who can put pressure fastest.” – Kim Clijsters [20:56]

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Main Interview: Zeynep Sönmez

1. Early Admiration, Tour Experiences, & Coaching

[22:44–28:27]

• Zeynep expresses admiration for Kim Clijsters’ game and grace, calling her “effortless.” [23:31]
• Details recent tournaments: climbing from struggles in the Middle East swing to positive momentum at Merida and Indian Wells.
• New coaching relationships: working with İssam Jellali (Ons Jabeur’s former coach), with meaningful informal mentorship from Ons herself.
  • “He's been there... he really believes in me, and it really gives me strength.” – Zeynep Sönmez [27:19]

2. Shifting Playing Style & Developing Aggression

[28:28–31:04]

• Transitioning from a defensive player to more aggression and net play.
• Admits not being fully comfortable yet, but relishes incremental progress and instruction.
  • “I have to be able to play a good baseline tennis and get the chance and then go to net.” – Zeynep Sönmez [28:47]

3. Mental Health, Self-Talk, & Social Media Toxicity

[31:47–38:29]

• Open discussion on being self-critical and battling doubt triggered by Turkish media and social media attacks.
  • “When you're doing one thing wrong…they're starting to attack you. And, you know, it got into my head.” – Zeynep Sönmez [32:10]
• Zeynep’s approach: limit social media during tournaments, accept that criticism is inevitable, and stay focused on personal goals.
  • “If you don’t have my number, you don’t know me well enough to have a problem with me.” [35:38]
• Strong emphasis on protecting mental health, a daily intentional practice.

4. The Realities & Privileges of Turkish Fame

[38:29–41:43]

• Navigating sports stardom in Turkey: new experiences like being recognized in public and inspiring kids.
  • “I love representing my country…it means a lot to me.” – Zeynep Sönmez [39:19]
• Notes the double-edged sword: extreme national pride when winning, and criticism when losing.

5. Pinch-Me Moments, Visibility, and Community

[42:43–46:23]

• Recalls the “pinch me” moment of reaching Wimbledon third round (first Turk to do so) and her match kit being requested by the Wimbledon Museum.
• Emotional memories of overwhelming Turkish support at events like the Australian Open or Wimbledon.
• Blair and Kim highlight the power of Zeynep and players like Alex Eala bringing new energy and fans.

6. Friendship Culture: Alex Eala & On-Tour Sisterhood

[46:36–49:16]

• Zeynep describes close friendship with Alex Eala and her open, friendly relationships with many players—contrasting the more distant culture Kim experienced during her era.
  • “Girlhood forever…We see each other more than we see our families, basically, so why not be friends?” – Zeynep Sönmez [47:09]
  • Alex and Zeynep can dine together before facing off on court, separating result from friendship.

7. Coping with Pressure, Loss, and Growth

[50:32–57:12]

• Zeynep’s self-characterization: strong, easygoing, passionate.
• Open Q&A with Kim and Blair about coping with losses, pressure from expectations, and learning to say “no.”
• Kim shares personal journey: learning from losses, pressure as a privilege, strategies to separate tennis from personal growth.
  • “You can’t practice being nervous in a Grand Slam final… It’s all part of the growth process.” – Kim Clijsters [54:32]

8. Tactical Breakdown: Matches vs. Alex Eala, Maria Sakkari

[57:25–66:26]

• Zeynep analyzes challenges of facing Alex Eala (aggressive, lefty, angles) and Maria Sakkari (no glaring weaknesses, requires tactical aggression).
  • “With Alex…she plays very close to the line…you have to cover all the court, basically, and you have to do it very fast.” [57:53]
  • On Sakkari: “Try to be aggressive, use the middle of the court more, because the middle deep is always tough.” [61:31–64:18]
• Discusses her own preferences versus hard hitters and the tactical adaptations required.
• Merida is her “happy place” on tour, sparking her best tennis.

9. Growth Mindset: Adjusting Game, Learning from Others

[66:28–73:07]

• Zeynep is eager to add more variety (slices, drop shots, net play), despite limitations in serve power.
• Studied Kim's and Justine Henin’s matches, taking notes and trying to apply what works.
• Uses a notebook to “coach herself” mentally before matches.
  • “Just calm down and enjoy. It’s gonna end. So just calm down and try to do what you need to do.” – Zeynep Sönmez [71:43]
• Refuses to make equipment changes after a loss, but reviews matches—especially losses—to extract learning points, finding value even in harsh self-critique.

10. Coping Mechanisms and Recovery

[73:07–76:41]

• Zeynep describes post-loss routines: sometimes needs a 24-hour buffer before reviewing matches, but values fresh discussion for emotional processing.
• Open with her team about how she feels post-match, whether talking right away or waiting for clarity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you have a problem with me, text me. If you don’t have my number, you don’t know me well enough to have a problem with me.”
  – Zeynep Sönmez (on social media toxicity) [35:38]

• “Pressure is a privilege…people think highly of you, and they expect you to win because you have the results to back it up.”
  – Kim Clijsters (on perspective) [51:50]

• “Girlhood forever…We see each other more than we see our families, so why not be friends?”
  – Zeynep Sönmez (on women’s tour camaraderie) [47:09]

• “I play so much better when I enjoy being on the court.”
  – Zeynep Sönmez [61:53]

• “You can’t practice being nervous in a Grand Slam final…you just have to keep trying and give yourself those opportunities.”
  – Kim Clijsters [54:32]

• “When I stop playing tennis, I’m not going to think about what that person was thinking about me…this is my life.”
  – Zeynep Sönmez [32:10]

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Key Timestamps

• [04:01] Kim recalls Anna Kournikova, Silvia Farina, and Maria Sharapova as players with prime "aura"
• [13:05] Introduction to gambling, social media threats, and player safety crisis
• [22:44] Zeynep Sönmez’s introduction & interview begins
• [28:47] Adjusting to playing more aggressively/net play
• [32:10] Managing self-critique and outside pressure
• [39:19] Life as a Turkish sports celebrity and national pride
• [42:43] “Pinch me” moment: Wimbledon third round, Turkish fans, museum honor
• [47:09] On-court friendships and supportive tour culture
• [57:53] Tactical breakdown: facing Alex Eala
• [61:31] Tactical breakdown: facing Maria Sakkari
• [73:07] Reviewing matches, learning from losses
• [76:56] Closing thanks and episode wrap-up

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Episode Tone & Final Thoughts

The conversation is candid, empathetic, and supportive—a blend of hard-won wisdom from Kim and fresh honesty from Zeynep. The episode is inspiring for anyone interested in the human side of pro tennis, offering actionable advice on resilience, openness to growth, the complexity of young fame, and the power of community, especially for players carving a path from emerging tennis nations.

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Recommended For:
• Tennis fans interested in the personal and professional journeys of rising WTA players
• Anyone curious about social media’s effect on athlete wellbeing
• Fans of women’s sports, sports psychology, and the evolving culture of friendship on tour

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Transcript

[Kim Clijsters]

Close your eyes.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Exhale. Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[Blair Henley]

Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts.

[Kim Clijsters]

Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

And breathe.

[Blair Henley]

Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.

[Kim Clijsters]

Oh, sorry. Namaste.

[Blair Henley]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Kim Clijsters]

1-800-contacts. Ugh.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

You said you were over him, but

[Blair Henley]

his hoodie's still in your rotation. It's time. Grab your phone, snap a few pics, and sell it on depop.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Listed in minutes with no selling fees. And just like that, a guy 500

[Blair Henley]

miles away just paid full price for your closure.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

And right on cue. Hey. Still got my hoodie?

[Blair Henley]

Nope. But I've got tonight's dinner paid for. Start selling on depop, where taste recognizes taste list. Now with no selling fees, payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Here we go.

[Kim Clijsters]

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to a new episode of Love All. On Sunday, we had sun in New Jersey, and I was kind of drawn between being on the couch to watch Indian Wells on TV or to do a little bit of yard work. And we did some yard work. We, the boys, my husband, we all did it together. And it was really nice. I got a little bit of color, excited that we had a feel of a little bit of spring weather. What was it? What did you do, Blair, over the weekend?

[Blair Henley]

I love that for you, Kim, and I'm so glad you said something, because I was like, kim does look tanner today.

[Kim Clijsters]

I know. It is, right?

[Blair Henley]

It was the yard work. So I love to hear that from you. I. As you all know, I filmed our last episode in Indian Wells. I stayed for a couple days after that, had a really fun time filming Courtside Confessions with the ATP, which will, I think, initially be released on TikTok, so we know that Kim won't see it. I'll let all. All of you know.

[Kim Clijsters]

Thank you. Blair, fill me in.

[Blair Henley]

Actually, Kim, there was. There was a question that I had the chance to ask Arthur Feast, who was fantastic, by the way. And I wanted to ask the question to you as well. I was asking him to essentially give his. We would probably use the word swag. The kids would probably say aura Riz Drip.

[Kim Clijsters]

Yes. Those are the words I hear in my household.

[Blair Henley]

Yes. Yeah, exactly. So I. I asked him if he could give his ratings on the ATP Tour right now. But it made me wonder, Kim, in your prime, who had the most aura on tour? Can you give us your top three?

[Kim Clijsters]

I would say I grew up when I think Anna Kournikova was obviously, you know, in the spotlight a lot. And, and so I would say she was always a player that I remember. Everybody would watch, right? The men, the women, the players. Like, how is she going to show up at the players party? What is she wearing on court? I think she was the one early on that really stood out. I had a personal favorite when I just came on tour and I met Silvia Farina. She was an Italian player, and I just absolutely loved her elegance, her style on and off the court. I don't know if it was that Italian elegance that I just really enjoyed. Yeah. So she definitely was one of the women. She was a bit older than I was, but I just admired her for all the above. And then I would say Maria Sharapova came on a few years after me. But I think she always was very classy, you know, both on and off the court. I loved kind of the minimalistic look that she always have to this day. I think she, you know, I love her fashion sense and that's a good list. I don't know. I think that's about it.

[Blair Henley]

We're going to talk a little bit more about fashion in just a minute. In Henley's headlines, we're also going to have Kim Formation, where she's going to break down all things Naomi Osaka's tennis game. And then we are so excited because we are going to close this show with an interview with Zeynep Sonmez, who has really made some waves on tour over the past couple of years. She's from Turkey, has an incredible fan base, and as we learned, she's friends with everyone. She's now Kim's bestie also, so definitely make sure you stay tuned for that.

[Kim Clijsters]

You can see why she's liked and her personality on tour and how important is for her to feel good right on tour and to. To play well. Like that combination. Super important.

[Blair Henley]

All right, heading into Henley's headlines, number one, Kim, you. You gave me the perfect segue. We've got to talk about some Indian Wells fashion. Naomi Osaka has walked out onto the court in Indian Wells in a. I've heard some people say cheetah leopard. Somebody can correct us in the comments. It's one of the two. So she's got this amazing Nike dress, but she also has this sort of mouth jewelry earpiece. Yes, that's really interesting. She had a whole spread in vogue. Can you imagine Kim in your time walking out on court with something that's that eye catching?

[Kim Clijsters]

I cannot. But I love it for her and it pulls me to the TV screen and I love that she, you know, has that focus on something else besides tennis and that she brings that, you know, brings that storytelling kind of factor to, to the tennis tour. And I at times, like, I wonder like, how can tennis still grow and you know, make, you know, add new things to the sport. And then, you know, you see somebody like her who shows up at the Australian Open on center court and has the umbrella and has the, you know, the veil and like it was, it was such an intriguing. And there's people, you know, boats out there, like, oh, it's over the top. And there's people that are saying, oh, I love it. And, and I love it for her.

[Blair Henley]

Yeah, I think that's the best way to say it. If she loves it, we love it. And it is something that's really interesting because I'm always on the edge of my seat wondering what she's going to walk out in in next. Which I think is a net positive.

[Kim Clijsters]

I did look at the jeweler that made the pieces of Julie. Cause I think that's she tagged them or they were tagged in something and I looked at. He's a guy, think New York. I forgot his name now. But love some of the pieces that are on there a little bit out there, like extreme like. But some of the pieces, I was like, ooh, put it in my little shopping cart. You know, I didn't buy it yet, so I think, I hope they're still in there, but I love it.

[Blair Henley]

Wait, you, you've literally put things in your shopping cart?

[Kim Clijsters]

Yes. I had like three things on there that I was like, ooh, I would like that like just like a bigger cuff like in your ear, you know, where you don't have to get pierced.

[Blair Henley]

Like, you set me up perfectly for the segue here because the number two Henley's headline is that not only did Arina Savalenka get a puppy, she has also gotten engaged. She is now the owner of a 12 carat diamond engagement ring that she is playing matches with. She is not only think the ring

[Kim Clijsters]

and the puppy are about the same size.

[Blair Henley]

That's actually not that much of an exaggeration. The puppy is very tiny and small and the ring is massive. But she's playing tennis with it, which is not something that we have, have often seen. I remember Caroline Wozniaki had quite a sizable diamond that I don't believe she played. And I think Sloane Stevens, when she first got engaged, I don't think she played in hers. But also. Also sizable. But I guess if you're going to have a 12 karat ring, make it so that you can play with it.

[Kim Clijsters]

Do whatever you want. Like, I played with a ring at one point, and it used to give me a blister. Like, it got. Like, my calluses got really bad. And. But I think it was the lady that made. I think it's a friend of hers that made the jewelry or that made the. The engagement ring. And it's so pretty because she has, like, green. Green on the bottom. Like, green stones on the bottom. Emeralds. Like, very, very pretty. So very beautifully made. And I just am excited for him that he was able to catch her by surprise, because he must have thought really hard about, like, how can I do this so I can actually surprise her? And, yeah, it worked like he got her.

[Blair Henley]

Same, same. All right, moving on now to a story that took place on Monday, so this will be released on Wednesday. It was Katerina Siniakova took out the defending champion, Mira Andreeva in Indian Wells 46 7, 6, 6, 3 in the third round. This match had drama all the way through, right?

[Kim Clijsters]

So Signiakova was upset that she was moving so fast in between her. Between the points when she was serving, and she felt rushed getting to the baseline to get ready for the return. So it is like, you know, you have your routine as a server, but great for Signyarkova to, you know, to play a tough opponent and. Yeah. And fight through the controversy a little bit. But it didn't end there, right?

[Blair Henley]

It did not end there. The chair umpire, Jenny Zhang, got involved. There were rackets that were broken during the match. For a time, Andreeva's team was left the box. They did return for the third set. Andreeva, as we mentioned, would not end up winning that match. And as she walked off the court, she had words for the crowd. Would you like to give? Would you like to deliver?

[Kim Clijsters]

You can do it. Go for it. Hang on.

[Blair Henley]

Let me make sure I'm getting it right. Uh, I believe it was. There was a hand gesture that went along with it, and it was.

[Kim Clijsters]

It was only two words. I think.

[Blair Henley]

I think it was F you all.

[Kim Clijsters]

Oh, Fu all.

[Blair Henley]

Okay, Fu all. And in that moment, Kim, a meme was born. This woman, I'm gonna guess she was a Palm Springs resident. Am I stereotyping?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Probably.

[Blair Henley]

But she. She got the fu wall and her

[Kim Clijsters]

reaction, it looked like it was told to her face. That's like. She took it that way, right? She was like, hand through the chest.

[Blair Henley]

Yes. As she's. As she's following Andrea with her head, and then she literally clutches her pearls, so.

[Kim Clijsters]

And then.

[Blair Henley]

But this. On the flip side, Andreeva has that heartbreaking loss. She's back out on court in the afternoon playing Devils with Vicki Mboko. They're laughing on the sideline, and, you know, she's mentally moved on. But there are probably things there to be learned for Andreeva, who, again, is just 18 years old.

[Kim Clijsters]

You know, at times we forget that, right? Like, she's only 18, and she's going through this whole process for the first time. Like I said before, it's like the dealing with the pressure for the first time. Like, the fact, you know, what we talk about Sabalanka, we love seeing the emotions, right? There's people that say, like, oh, you know, but she. It's too. It's too much at times. But, like, I love seeing the emotions. Do I think it's always the best for them? No, I don't think it always helps their tennis in the best way. But I do think it's fun to watch where you see players, you know, maybe get mad at their team, maybe, you know, get annoyed with themselves and sighing and rolling their eyes or whatever. It is, like, it's fun to see those emotions, but when it gets to a point where, you know, I think with Andreeva, you can see her at times, you know, crying on court, and it's hard to get that out of your head and really just focus on what you have to and have a clear mind about. And so I hope for her, and I know Conchita, you know, is, you know, has been working with her for a long time and has been working on the mental side of that, too, is to just get her to kind of play and stay in the moment. And that's what it all comes down to, is we all have those negative thoughts in our head, but it's. As you get older, you're just a little bit better at dealing with the negative kind of thoughts, and you don't let it take over. But good for her to be able to go out a couple of hours later and play and still kind of leave the site in Indian Wells and go back to the hotel with somewhat of a good feeling, knowing that you've been able to kind of still enjoy your time on court and. And because that's always. Is very important as well, because there's no, there's. There's nothing that gets much worse is when you go back to your hotel room and you're by yourself in your hotel room, you have that feeling of like, oh, man, like, I just, you know, lost that match. I played horrible. Like, you know, my attitude maybe wasn't great. Like, it's that. That's a horrible feeling, like when you sit there by yourself and then you have to try and face your team and you, you know, like, that's it. It's all part of it. But good for her that she was able to, you know, have her doubles and. And hopefully, you know, leave. Leave the courts on a high note.

[Blair Henley]

Well, on a much more serious note, several players on the WTA and ATP tours revealed they had received WhatsApp messages threatening to harm them and their families. It included photos of family members. A couple of the text included photos of a gun. And they were essentially being threatened. This is what awaits you if you do not lose your upcoming match. So one of the players, Pana Udvarti, who received some of these messages, said that the WTA supervisor told her that. That whoever these people were being in possession of her contact information and her personal information could have stemmed from a leak from the WTA, potentially the ATP, about these players. That is so incredibly scary. We've heard about the issues with gambling in tennis and the abuse that the players are subjected to on their social media platforms. This is taking it to a whole other level to think that these people potentially have access to the players themselves. I mean, there's really not much to say other than it's terrible, Kim, but I'm curious what your reaction was.

[Kim Clijsters]

Yeah, it's something that. I'm reading it right. I haven't gone through being on tour as a player, dealing with that kind of abuse through social media, gambling, whatever it is, and stalkers. And it's different now. Because it's different doesn't mean that it's okay and that you just have to deal with it. I'm so amazed with everything that we can do, technology wise, that that kind of stuff can be filtered out. Like how you can't protect players. And, you know, there's so many smart people who are way smarter than I am, like, who, you know, must be able to find some kind of filter to filter all these, you know, to protect, yeah, these athletes a little bit because it is a form of abuse. And. But, you know, I saw a Belgian guy, Michael Gates as well. He was playing a challenger and he had his. It was all over the news in Belgium where they, you know, they threatened with his, towards his parents, that they were watching his house, where his parents were living, they had his parents ID numbers. Like it got to like, very detailed and where, you know, he admitted like if he would have won that match, like he ended up losing the match, but he won the first set and he started like being a little bit worried or he was up in the first and being worried about like, oh, what if some of this could be true? And so, so it does play an effect on you mentally and I just hope that it doesn't inspire more people because you see that it can influence some players. But yeah, it's unfortunate that we haven't found a better solution yet. And I don't know what that solution could be. But whoever Facebook and all those guys, Instagram and whoever they are, like, they gotta come up with something so that it's, and it's not just in tennis, it's in, it's, it's every, every sport.

[Blair Henley]

Now it is time for Kim Formation, my favorite segment of the day. And as promised, Kim is going to give us a little breakdown on Naomi Osaka, who just a quick refresher. She's a four time Grand Slam champ, she's 28 years old, currently ranked 16 in the world. And I think the big question mark has been is she going to regain the level that we saw from her prior to having her daughter? So that was 2018, 2019. And I'll pose that question to you, Kim, but also I would love for you to tell us what she does so well and what she could potentially do better.

[Kim Clijsters]

So that's the thing, like I do think tennis wise, I think she is back at the level that she had before she had her daughter. Like, I think there's no, I think she's just as fit, if not fitter as she was, you know, compared to before she had her daughter. She looks like she's enjoying putting in the work, putting in the time, getting better. So I think she's doing all the right things. To me, I think my or the thing that stands out to me the most is that she hits the ball. I think maybe, maybe not quite as hard as a Sabalenka or a Bakina, but she serves, she has a good serve. She hits the ball almost as hard as those, as, as those top players. I think the difference is where she lacks a little bit is that her overall court game is when she plays somebody that hits the ball hard, it's either you go harder or go home. Like she doesn't have other solutions. And, and at times I think that that's where she, she's a player where. You know, I've talked in the past like, we've talked about Sabalanka stop like quitting doubles because she wanted to focus on singles. We talked like with El. I've talked about like, oh, she wants to, you know, get back to that top 10 and you know, get to maybe potential semifinals of Grand Slams. And you know, there you would almost recommend like, hey, try to, you know, pull back a little bit on the doubles where with an Osaka almost feel like it would be great to see her play some doubles because I really think that she could benefit from just being a little bit more comfortable coming in and, and using the doubles to, you know, as an advantage in her in our singles game. But I think she's overall like, I think she's better than what she was before. You know, she's come up. I mean, you know, there's a lot, you know, we saw her beat Serena, right? But now you have players, I think a Sabalenka, you know, she serves great, maybe not as well as, as, as Serena did, but you know, very, very close. Hits the ball as hard, moves just as well as Serena used to. So there is, there's a lot of players that, that make it really hard or take Osaka's strength away from her. And, and when, when that happens, you have to fall, be able to fall back on a couple of, of solutions. And at times I think she, she doesn't have those. But when she beat Osorio yesterday in her match like that to her, I feel like for her is the perfect way to get into the match that is coming up against Sabalenka is because she was able to dictate the game. She was able. The ball like Osorio hits the ball with a little bit of spin in your kind of driving, you know, like where you want to hit your racket. Like it's, it's, it felt like it was a really good match for her to get that win before playing Sabalenka. And then you add the emotional side of it all. You have, you know, the whole kind of behind the scenes. Right. Like with Sabalenka, I would say basically taking over as the female leading role in that agency that Naomi started with Stewart Agency called Evolve. Those kind of things. It happens on the tennis tour, but it's a lot easier said than done to just put it aside and act as if that doesn't have an effect. And it sometimes happens with coaching changes where a coach that you've worked with for a long time is all of a sudden coaching against. Like, those are emotions that you have to deal with and can sometimes trigger you in somewhat of a way. And I think this is the first time that Osaka and Sabalenka are playing against each other since that Osaka, I think, went back to img, right. It's with Max. And so, yeah, that just adds another little added layer of, you know, drama,

[Blair Henley]

maybe in a sense, but we love the layers.

[Kim Clijsters]

I'm super excited to watch on a tennis level, I'm super excited to see these two compete against each other because, yeah, at any stage where the two, like two big hitters play each other, it's about who, who can keep the unforced arrows down, but who is able to put pressure fastest. And, and that's what I'm curious. And I can't wait to sit in front of. No, no, no garden, whatever gardening work for me during that match. I'm going to be sitting on the couch some.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

She.

[Blair Henley]

Kim. Kim's going to farm out her yard work so she can watch.

[Kim Clijsters]

It's only my little front yard. It's not vague.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

It's okay.

[Blair Henley]

No, I love that. I thought that was a fantastic explanation. Which leads us into our next segment. So after the break, we're going to be joined, as promised, by zeynep Sonmez. She's 23 years old. She's been on the rise over the past couple of years. Captured her first title in Merida in 2024, becoming the first player from her country to reach the third round at a major at Wimbledon. And that helped her break into the top 70 in the world. And she also qualified and reached the third round again at the Australian Open this year. She's from Istanbul, Turkey. Zeynep Sanmez will be with us after the break. New year, new me. Cute. But how about new year, new money? With Experian, you can actually take control of your finances.

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[Zeynep Sonmez]

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[Kim Clijsters]

Hi, Zeynep. Well, I just want to say welcome to our podcast. It's called Love all and we're super excited to Talk to you. I have been doing research about you, but I would love to have the chance to get to know you a little bit better and talk to you in person here.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. So I'm very excited to be able to hear and talk to you as, like, as you can imagine. I grew up watching you. I was watching you a lot. I was a big fan. I'm a big fan still. So I'm very, very happy to be here. So thank you so much for having me.

[Kim Clijsters]

Thanks. No, we're excited, both of us. Blair, too.

[Blair Henley]

Very. Well, I'm curious, Dana, what. What did you like about watching Kim?

[Kim Clijsters]

She.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Kim.

[Blair Henley]

Kim would never ask that herself.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I mean, to be honest, I. I don't know. You know, like, when I was watching her and like, you know, when she won Australian Open after her pregnancy, I was like, oh, my God, that's a dream come true. It's like, it was so like to watch you on court. I would feel so, you know, I would feel like you wouldn't miss. I don't know why. I was like, oh, my God, she can play, like, all day, every day, and I feel like she's not gonna miss. And like, for me, you were playing so effortless and like, the winners that you were hitting and everything, like, I love all of it, so I can't just, like, pick one. But it was just so good to like, watch her, like, play on the court.

[Kim Clijsters]

Well, thank you. Now we're gonna talk about you. Thanks. No, so you. You just mentioned before we started recording that you're still in la. You're ready to fly to Miami, right? This is a busy part of the season where you have to jump on a couple of planes to get to the tournaments and everywhere. But tell me a little bit, what was Indian Wells like for you?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Indian Wells was great. I fly from Merida, so I was playing tournament. And I love Merida. I think I did not have a, like, very good Middle east swing. So I was. And I was not going to Merida, actually, in the. In the plan. My coach was like, I'm working with esam. And then my coach was like, you know, he. He said, maybe not. Like, maybe you shouldn't go. We should just practice. And I was like, but I really, really want to go. And I was in college and I didn't know I could only get three wild cards in a year. So I got all three. I used all three in Middle east, and I was 15 out. And then I. In one night, I was just one Out. And then I said, guys, I really want to go. Can I please just go? Because I love playing there, and lately I've. I've been not feeling well, and I just want to go. And we went there, and it was great. I played quarterfinal, and then we went to Indian Wells. And I like the condition in Indian Walls. I mean, it. It's the quarter, like, not super fast, but the balls are not so bouncy in Indiana, in Merida, it was very, very bouncy. I like playing in Indian Wells, and I think I played good two matches. I played against McCartney first. It was a great match. It was very tight. First set. And then against Anna, it was a great match, too. I had some chances. But, you know, overall, I think me and my team were happy with the tennis that I played last week.

[Kim Clijsters]

So I just want to explain to maybe the people who don't know who Issam is. You started working at the start of this year, right? Or maybe in the off season a little bit already?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yeah, we started working in the off season. Yeah.

[Kim Clijsters]

Yeah. With IH Sam, who was working with Ons Jabeur for a long time, and she's pregnant now, so he's kindly stepped in. And I think Ons is also kind of mentoring you a little bit. Is that like a packaged kind of deal or.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I mean, so, like, we're not, like, talking on daily basis, but, yeah, we do talk. Like, sometimes I call. I call her like, you know, when I struggle with something or when I don't know what to do or when things get too much, sometimes I call her and I try to ask for help. Like, I was like, I don't know what to do. And, you know, like. And she's been there, so she knows everything, and she's very helpful. So I'm very, very grateful to have her in my life, too.

[Kim Clijsters]

With Isam, of course, how has that been like that? You know, having him on. On the sideline now, like a new voice. How. How, you know, what have you felt or on court or mentally that that approach has. Has given you?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I mean, definitely I feel like I have more responsibilities when I. After I started working with him, because I know that he's. He was like, his player played Grand Slam finals, and they've been together for a long time. And, you know, it's just I felt like I have done to, you know, I have to, like, really, really give. Like, I was, of course, giving my 100%, but maybe I have to give like 110, 120 to really, you know, make it work. And I. I am. So, like, again, like, when we talk, it's like, you know, sometimes he's telling me things that I've never, like, really knew before. And, you know, it's a different, like, perspective. And he's been there, and he really believes in me, and I think really means a lot, too, because sometimes I struggle. Like, you know, I. I'm like, I don't know what's gonna happen. And, you know, I can be. I can be a little bit negative sometimes. And he's always like, no, we're gonna make it work. We're gonna make it work. I believe in you, and it really gives me strength. And, you know, when he's on the side, I feel like it doesn't matter what I do on court. He's gonna be able to see if I'm doing it right or wrong.

[Kim Clijsters]

Yeah.

[Blair Henley]

One thing Zainab from. From everything I've read, is that you maybe made a shift mentally and trying to be maybe a little bit more aggressive on the court, come into the net more. And I wonder what that transition was like for you. Did you have to sort of talk yourself into that? Do you feel confident in that style of game now?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes, I think I've been. I've been feeling more confident about it. When I was a kid, I was just, like, playing very far behind the baseline, and I would just run and put everything in. But. And then at some point, like, I was like, okay, it's not gonna work out, because, like, people are hitting the ball, and I have to hit the ball, and somehow. And I was thinking, like, how can I use my legs and my aggressive. Like, how can I be aggressive? But you without. With using my legs, because I don't have a huge serve. And I was thinking, like, maybe I can go to net more so that, you know, when I hit a good shot, I can go to net and finish it at the net. But definitely, the coaches that were in my life and the mentality overall, like, me seeing the highest level of tennis and, you know, seeing what they do helps me more, like, helped me a lot in that time. So I was like, I'm. I'm getting better. But ESAM is like, you know, we have to find a balance between both. Like, you have to be able to play, like, a good baseline tennis and get the chance and then go to net. So I think. I think it's going good. But, you know, I wouldn't say, like, I'm 100, like, comfortable with it.

[Kim Clijsters]

It takes time, right, to build that confidence to to feel comfortable to go to the net or to hit the dry volley or it just needs. Yeah, it just, it takes time to, to kind of build or to use what you've worked in on the practice course, to use that in a match. Because I do think, like, and I was like that too, like in kind of always fall back to kind of old, you know, patterns that you feel comfortable with. And I definitely did similar things where, you know, sometimes I stayed a little bit too far behind the baseline and just started running and defending. And you're absolutely, I think, correct with where you say, like, it's, you know, the girls hit the ball so hard now and a lot of them can hit winners from almost every angle. And so you have to be, you know, definitely ready to go and be the aggressor at times as well, because you're going to have a lot of work on your side if that's all you're going to do is run from side to side and try not to make mistakes and hope that they make the mistakes. So it's a normal thing, but it takes time to feel comfortable that you

[Zeynep Sonmez]

were struggling with those things.

[Kim Clijsters]

Yeah, no, it is. You have to. I feel like in the last five, six years where I really felt like, okay, if I stay on top of my baseline and I call it home base, right, there's like, you retrieve like after a shot, like the, the spot where you retrieve back to becomes like home base. And that's where you start dictating the points from. But it used to be almost, I think like a meter, like further back when I, when I started and, and I was lucky that I had the power to, if I was even, you know, a little further behind the baseline to, to try and hit, you know, to hit some like, heavy shots, but it, it's tough to do that three sets if you have to, you know, play a tough opponent.

[Blair Henley]

Zeynep, I was wondering, you mentioned that you can be hard on yourself. And I feel like that's certainly relatable for me. Probably relatable to many people who are listening. And one of the articles I was reading, it was saying you were working on being gentler to yourself. And how have you been doing that? Give it, give us some tips on how to be more gentle to oneself.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I mean, yes, I think there are a lot of people who are not super, like, easy on themselves. And now I've been like, I dropped out of 100 last end of last year and I was feeling like, oh, am I going to be able to do it Again. And, and in Turkish media it was like, it was a little bit like, okay, was, was it by luck and like, you know, you know that when you get into that social media and media and everything is like, when you're doing one thing wrong, like when some things are not going to so great and they're, they're starting to attack you. And you know, it got into my head and I was like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do it again. Like, maybe they're right. I don't know. And then my team was like, no, no, no, you should like stop, you know, going there. Like you shouldn't go there. And I, that's where I talked to, on to and I was like, she, she, we talked like for an hour or so and then she helped me a lot there. And also I've been working with Mehmet. Like, he's always with me. We've been together for like six years. He's like, we're working mentally and also physically. Like my fitness, he's my fitness trainer too. And we're, he's, he told me like, you know, it's, it's just, it's just in your head like you, you did that once and like it shouldn't even be your goal to like get, get in top 100 again. It shouldn't be the goal. Like, and we were talking about that and I said, you know, it's, it's just, it's my life in the end. Like when I stop playing tennis, I'm not gonna think about, oh, what that person was thinking about me or what they were saying about me. I was just focusing on like, I would just like, you know, live my life. So now I'm trying to be more like, I don't want to say be the bad person, but I'm trying to be like prioritize myself more and to hear and, and I am not. Again, I'm not there yet, but again, trying. Exactly. It's a decision, I think it's a decision you have to make every single day. It's not like you have to make that decision once and then it's going to work out. You have to make that decision every single match, every single day. And there are some days that I'm good with deciding on choosing myself first, but there are some days it's not, it's. It just doesn't work out.

[Kim Clijsters]

And how, how do you or with your team, how do you approach that? Like, okay, you know, whatever newspapers and like I grew up in that era where, you know, there was no social media, so I didn't have kind of the personal attacks, you know, that would come directly to me on my. On my feed. But, you know, there was media, there was newspaper titles, you know, that. That, you know, I would read in the beginning. And, you know, people around me would say, just don't read it. Like, don't let it affect you. And it's just. It's easier said than done, right? Like, it's a lot easier to. To kind of just brush it off and go on with life as if everything is great and nothing's happening. Because you do at times start, you know, can doubt yourself. So how is your team kind of guiding you in that approach? Because that's, you know, I'm so curious. Like, I have a daughter who's 18, and I'm curious to see, like, how that, you know, like, how do the people with the experience that I've had, like, how can they help you? You know, or is it as black and white by saying, just don't read it. Like. Like, what is. What is the approach?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

So I am, like, in big tournaments, I am not checking my social media a lot because, you know, it's. It's never good to check social media a lot because as you go, you always, like, go and like, scroll and scroll. So. But overall, we're. I'm trying to do is, like, people are gonna talk. First of all, I have to accept that they're gonna say something for sure. No matter what I do, if I do something good, if I do something bad, they're gonna talk. And most of the time, the people who say unbelievably good things about me when I do something good are the same people who talk very bad about me when I do. Like, when I lose a match or two. So. And I think I'm at a point where I accept this. Like, they're gonna talk, but they. They don't know what I'm going through or they don't know what my life looks like. And I know that I wanna win. I wanna do good things more than anyone on social media. Like, for them to, like, you know, it's just. And they are not in my life. They're not people like, you know, I heard. I saw one called, like, if you have a problem, me, text me. If you don't have my number, you. You don't know me well enough to have a problem with me. You know, so it's just like, I'm at a point where, okay, I. I genuinely don't care. Like, I really don't care what you say about me, because this is my life. And tennis is not that long to think about what, what other people are going to think about me. Like, I'm representing my country. Like, what if I don't give them what they're expecting from me or anything? Because, again, this is my life. And when I stop playing tennis, no one even gonna, like, you know, talk about me or, like, care of what I'm doing. So I'm just focusing on myself. And I have a lot of people who really. Who's really trying for me to get where I really want to get. And I don't want to let them down, too. You know, I don't want to let them down for some people who, I don't know talking about me or even some people I know. But, you know, I'm coming, like, I have to accept that, too. Like, I'm coming from a country that tennis is not a big thing. So when there's something good, they're gonna be a lot of, like, oh, my God, it's amazing, wonderful, and this and that. And then when things are not going well, they're gon be like, oh, okay, she's a trash. So I'm okay with it. And I'm just, you know, I said I'm just going to do my job and I'm just going to surround myself with good people and I'm going to try to do my best. So I don't want to regret after I playing, after I finish my career, I don't want to regret, oh, I wish I've done that. I wish I've done that, you know, so I'm just thinking like that. And they're. They're very protective over me. Like, my team is too. Like, they're trying to protect me, but they're trying to show me the reality, too.

[Kim Clijsters]

What has that been like for you in the last year and a half, two years? Like, the changes, like becoming, you know, with all the negative things, but also the positives. Like, how has that changed in your home country? Like, you're from Turkey. I visited Turkey with my daughter for the first time a couple of years ago. I was in Izmir. She had to play a basketball tournament. And I'm just curious, like, what is it like for you now? Like, how, you know, the adjustments that you've had to make or not, or your family members, or what's it like when you walk around now there, Give me a little bit of, you know, like, let people Feel a little bit. What, what that's like when you come from a country where they don't have, you know, a tennis star like you or they're not used to that and how. How much attention comes, you know, is put onto your plate and that you, you know, just have to adjust to a little bit as well.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes. I mean, it's definitely like, I love going back home. I love Istanbul. I live in Istanbul. I'm from Istanbul. I was born and raised there. It's a great city. You should come.

[Kim Clijsters]

Yes, I would love to.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yeah. And so the. The interesting thing is sometimes, like, when I go back home now, sometimes when I'm. When I go supermarket or something, sometimes some people will recognize me and talk to me, and it feels weird because, like, you know, I'm traveling all the time and, like, when I go back home, because it was not something happening before. So it feels, like, a little bit interesting to me, which I'm. Which I'm very happy about. Like, I. You know, but it's. I've always, like. I've always loved playing Billie Jean King Cup. I've always loved playing for my country. It means a lot to me. I love representing my country, and I love my country overall. So, like, doing great things for my country really, really means a lot to me. And, you know, like, when I go back, sometimes I see some small kids, like, saying, like, oh, my God, you're my idol. I want to be like you when I grow up. It's like, you know, it feels amazing. Probably, you know, that feeling, like, you know, you feel like, oh, my God, like, this is really, like. Yeah. Yes, exactly. You know, it's like, are you sure? Is it me? And it feels great. I mean, I'm so grateful for that feeling and for all the people that are supporting me, and they do support me a lot, to be honest. Like, in Australia, too, I was like, it was insane. I felt like I was at home. I did not. I definitely didn't feel like I was, like, in Melbourne, the other side of the world. Yes. So, you know, I'm so grateful for that. And we're like, you know, we're very passionate. Turkish people are very passionate. We're, like, very, like, you know, we can get so loud and, like, again, like, it's just a privilege to be able to represent my country and, you know, have some people, like, supporting me,

[Kim Clijsters]

like, make people feel good. Right? Like, that's. You have that impact.

[Blair Henley]

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[Kim Clijsters]

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[Blair Henley]

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[Kim Clijsters]

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[Blair Henley]

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[Kim Clijsters]

Which makes you wonder, what would a

[Blair Henley]

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[Kim Clijsters]

Well, if you served it warm, he'd probably throw it in your face, say, unga boonga, and storm off. And nobody wants that. So drink it cold or not at all. Jagermeister.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Damn, that's cold.

[Blair Henley]

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[Blair Henley]

what has been the biggest pinch me moment for you? Zainab in Whether it's being in the locker rooms with people that you watched on TV or you were honored at the Harper's Bazaar Turkey Women of the Year event, you were the athlete of the year. I mean, I feel like you've had some pretty cool experiences. And so much of this is new, too. I was looking. Last year you played in Qualys of Indian Wells in Miami, and so much of that has changed as well. So I'm curious what the biggest. I call it a pinch me moment. But whatever you. Whatever sticks out to you.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

So I think last year when I was playing Wimbledon third round, and I went on the court, like, I was trying to go to court, and it was so full that we didn't get in for a while. We couldn't. We were not able. And I was like, oh, my God, these people that. All these people were, like, here to, like, watch me play. It's. It's. It's amazing. Like, and I got Messages, like, at 3:00am, 4:00am People were waiting on the line to just play. And they traveled from Turkey. And it. It was definitely. It was amazing. And after my match in Wimbledon, they called me from the locker room. And they said that we want to get your match kit for, you know, Wimbledon Museum. And I was like, are you sure you called my person?

[Blair Henley]

Well, because just a quick timeout, you were the first Turkish player ever to reach the third round of a major. Am I correct in that?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes. Okay.

[Blair Henley]

So that it was a historical moment.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes, I was. I was. Yes. I was very, very excited at first. I was scared. I was like, why are they calling me? Did I do something wrong? I was like, okay. And in Australia, too, was. It was. It was so good. Like, when I played in Kia arena, it was almost like. I don't know, but, like, I felt like it was full. And I saw a lot of flags, like, against Putin.

[Kim Clijsters]

Sava. That.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes.

[Kim Clijsters]

Yeah.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes, I saw a lot of flags. And, you know, I never, like, looked up and saw all of them, but I was able to see everything. So I was like, oh, my God. You know, I was very nervous. But, you know, those are. Those are my, like, pinch me moments.

[Kim Clijsters]

That's what I wanted to ask you is, like, when you see that, whether, you know, where it's so full that you can't even get to the court, is that to you, does it motivate you to, like, be even more locked in? Or is it more like, oh, my God, like, you know, what if I lose? Like, I'm gonna disappoint them? Or, like, where does your thought process go? No, I'm. I'm.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Most of the time, I'm just locked in.

[Kim Clijsters]

Yeah.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Oh, my God. You know, like, I'm gonna enjoy this.

[Kim Clijsters]

Yeah. This is because I feel like you on Yala have that support now, right?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Like, you. You.

[Kim Clijsters]

It's like a new kind of vibe in the tennis world, and a lot of people are talking about it just like, oh, when, you know, you have to be on the show court so that they can fit all the, you know, all the fans, you know, into. Into the stadium. And you're going to fill up the stadium like we saw with the Isle and Dubai and with you in. In Australia. Like, it's. It's. Yeah, really fun to. To see. And. And, you know, the more. The more new eyes and the more fans we can get to our sport, the better for all of us.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes, exactly. It's. It's. It's so good to, like, you know, like, even when you're playing, like, on those kind of courts and, you know, where there are so many people who are supporting you, I always feel like, okay, it can be very loud, but, you know, I always feel like Zainab, like, you've been dreaming about this, playing on these courts against great players, and just please enjoy it. Please do your best. And, you know, so I would probably, like. I always say these things to myself when it's, like, very crowded.

[Kim Clijsters]

So when you go to Wimbledon now in a few months, are you going to go look through the museum and see where your outfit is hanging?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I don't know if they put it, but, like, yes, definitely. I will check if they did. I will definitely check.

[Kim Clijsters]

All right, good.

[Blair Henley]

I love that Kim mentioned Alex Yala, because I know you two are besties, but I will also say I watched your vlog that you shot a few weeks ago, and you appeared to be besties with pretty much everyone. You were tight with Maya Joy. You were talking to Dasha Kazakita. Who else was in that one? Priscilla Hahn. So many. Ayla Tomjanovic. So are you a player who has no problem just making friends with. With everyone sort of along the way?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

No. Yeah. Girlhood forever. So it's just, you know, we're in this together. Like, you know, we see each other more than we see our families, basically, so why not be friends, you know? And with Alex, we're very. We're very close. Like, it's. It's not like we're just friends. Just in tennis, like, we're friends, like, even outside of tennis. Like, we talk a lot. We. We try to spend some time together, which is not very easy. But, yeah, we met in, I would say, 20, 21, around that. And since then, like, we're very good friends. And I, I. I love to be friends with all of them because, like, it. You know, it's just, like, the struggles that we go through and the problems that we face, like, every. It's, like, very similar. And, you know, I always tell them, like, if you guys need me, I don't know for what you would need me for, but, like, I'm always here. Like, if. If I can do anything, I would love to. You know, I feel like I played

[Kim Clijsters]

in the wrong era. Blair, I know.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

It's not like that.

[Kim Clijsters]

No, not at all. I feel like I was the weirdo. Like, if I was trying to talk to, like, like, potential opponents or, you know, like, have and talk in the locker room and. Yeah, it was just, like. It was really not. It didn't happen that often in the early 2000s, I would say, you know, it's just.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

It's just good to, you know, like, support each other. Yeah. Support each other. And, you know, sometimes I struggle with something like, in the. In Abu Dhabi, we played with. I played against Alex, and day before the match, we went on a dinner together, and we talked about life for, like, three, four hours. And, you know, I don't care. Like, we played against each other the next day, and after the match, everything was fine, too, because it's just a match. I don't really. Of course, like, she wants to win, I want to win. Like, we both know this, but in the end of the day, we're friends and, you know, it's. It's. For me, it's. It's not a. It's not a problem to be, like, to play against each other and to be friends at the same time.

[Kim Clijsters]

Yeah, there's a few girls, I feel like, back in the day that had that mindset, but then there were others that were, like, not even look at you for, like, you know, the first week of a Grand Slam, knowing that potentially in the quarterfinals, you could play each other. Like, they would avoid you. They didn't want to hit with you. Like, it was, yeah, definitely very different. So. Yeah, but that's. I love hearing that. Is to have that support and. And to be able to talk to the girls about, you know, what's happening, you know, off court while you're away with them. Because I realized, like, when I had my daughter and I would go, you know, pick up the, you know, my daughter from school, and I would talk to, like, the moms at school, like, it's great, and, like, we have that connection there, but there's really nobody who knows what it's been like for. For me growing up. Right. Like, unless you've been there. And then when I would play the Legends events, and I would talk to Martina Hinges, and I would talk to Kara Black, and, like, all the women that are playing, and we're all like, yes. Like, we understand each other. We know what it takes. We know that the struggles, the great parts about it. And you're absolutely right. That's, you know, we're closer a lot of times because you travel with these women for week in, week out for years. And more than at times, you see your own family.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Exactly, Exactly.

[Blair Henley]

If you had to describe your personality in three words, what would the three words be?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I would say, I'm a strong person. Like, I'm easy.

[Blair Henley]

It can be more than three words. We have no rules here at level. We know we can't go over three words.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I'm easy going.

[Blair Henley]

Like, okay, easy going.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I mean, I don't know if my team thinks that when I'M on the court, but outside, of course. And I think I'm very passionate about. Of the things that I do.

[Blair Henley]

That's great. Easy going, strong.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

But, you know, I. I'm strong. I would say, like, it's like, you know, I can. Even if I struggle with something a lot, I feel like I always. I. But I always remind myself, you know, it's gonna pass. Like, you know, it's. It's gonna be fine. So I feel like it gives me strength to think like that.

[Kim Clijsters]

I think the sport of tennis also teaches us that. Right? Like, it's. It's. You can play, you know, a few bad games, but you just have to let it go and come back and kind of. About.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

What were you doing? Yeah, can I get some, like, help? How would you. How would you. Like, let's turn it around. Like, how would you deal with, like, losses and all the expectations and everything?

[Kim Clijsters]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I. The expectation I think I struggled with in the beginning, especially because I think Justine Henan and I, like, we had a. You know, both being from Belgium, and, like, we started. We came up together and started playing some big matches in the Grand Slams against each other. And so that added another dimension of attention that I wasn't used to or pressure that I wasn't used to. Very relatable to what you said. Like, the people who are closest to you. Like, I didn't want to let them down. It was. I've almost felt worse for my team than I did for myself when I lost, but it was. Yeah, I just over. As I got older and I got, you know, used to saying no a little bit more. Right. Like, become comfortable with saying no and knowing what I wanted to do and what I didn't want to do. And I was very heartbroken after losses, but I was able to use it in the practice to become better and to work harder and really dissect, like, okay with my team. Like, what do I have to get better on? Is it physically if, you know, if I want to be able to beat Serena, what do I need to do, be better at? And I have to become faster. I have to become more accurate with my serve. And so you. You start picking out, you know, a few points here and there or a few. Yeah. Issues that I felt that I was lacking against, you know, different players. I mentioned Serena, but against Justine, it was something else. Against Venus, it was something. Against Sharapova, against Davenport, and you just try to add all those things and just try to try to be better over time. And one of the biggest mindsets after a while was that, you know, I realized, like, and it's easier. It's easier to something when people say, like, pressure is a privilege, right? Like, it's easy to read that you see it when you walk out on court at the US Open. But until you have experienced it, like, until I felt it, it's almost like, yeah, like, you know, people think highly of you, and they expect you to win because you've. You have the results to back it up because they think that you can beat these players. And I think once you start talking like that to yourself as well, it takes a little bit of the pressure away. And, yeah, that's kind of, I think, the mindset that I got as I got older, it's easier to talk about it all now that I'm, you know, many years out of my career. But it's in the process, like, I just had to learn to turn off my tennis brain at times and really, you know, have fun. And, you know, I had friends on tour or brought, like, friends from Belgium with me, you know, on tour, so that I could really kind of just have a little bit of normal life while I was traveling on the road.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I'm going to take some notes down, for sure.

[Kim Clijsters]

It's just. It's a process, like, and it doesn't happen all at once, right? Like, it's. It's. I feel like there's definitely different stages in my life or in my tennis career that where I felt like I really got better emotionally and mentally. Like, now looking back, like, I lost my first four Grand Slam finals before I won my first one. So after a while, like, every press conference was about, do you think you're too nice to win? Shouldn't you be meaner against your opponents? Should you? Like, why can you beat your opponents in the smaller tournaments, but you can't do it at a Grand Slam? So those kind of things, like, after a while, you try to kind of leave them in the media room, but then you start thinking about it a little bit, too, and you take them with you. But I know now that just mentally, I wasn't ready to win a Grand Slam. I just wasn't ready because I was so overwhelmed by the occasion where it would almost, like, paralyze my arm and my legs, and I just wasn't playing freely out there anymore. And that was, at times, the most disappointing part, is that I wasn't able. When you want to show your best tennis is in that moment and you want to give the crowd a good final and the tournament, the good final and the people watching on tv, like a fun match. But I just felt like in those matches, I just wasn't able to bring my, my best tennis. And that was the most disappointing part. So I kind of told myself over and over again, just keep trying and give yourself those opportunities. Because you can't practice being nervous, you know, in a Grand Slam final or seeing the trophy on the side of the, on the side of the court and realizing you're so close and, but there's different stages and, and you'll experience that as well. It's like, okay, you know, the second week of a Grand Slam, like that. There's a different feel to the tournament when you get to those stages. But it's all part of the, I think the growth process and. Yeah, and becoming a better tennis player. But also like you were talking about with your coach, Issam, like, he's teaching you things that you didn't even think about. And that's, you know, those are moments where I also felt like, oh, I never thought about this before. Like, this is. I'm learning something new, and I'm taking that with me to the next tournament, and I'm going to try to do some things a little bit differently. And you learn from other players. You see things. You know, I saw Monica selles practice at 6:30 in the morning because there were no courts. I was like, oh, that makes sense, right? Like, you can see her practicing. And so from there on, I started, you know, booking my court at 7am So I could have an hour and a half, you know, of practice by myself and work on the things that I wanted to work on without being interrupted or without being with four on a court.

[Blair Henley]

Yes, we're going to change the name of the podcast to Life Lessons with Kim Kleist.

[Kim Clijsters]

We definitely have to cut a lot from that last part.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

No, please, not, no.

[Blair Henley]

For the, for the tennis nerds who, who listen to the show Zainab, we were wondering if you could maybe go through some of your matches with. I'm going to name some players and have you tell us what makes them. Them so challenging to play and what they do so well. Kind of give us a little breakdown. And I'd love to start with your friend Alex, because you guys played each other recently. I assume you practice together. What does she do so well that gives so many people a hard time?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

First of all, she, she, she plays very close to the line. I think she's playing very aggressive, and she's a lefty, so it's difficult for a lot of players because, like, you know, she can open up, she can use the angle, use the angles, but at the same time, she can hit the ball very flat and heavy, like, you know, fast. So you always feel like you don't have so much time against her. You have to. You feel like you have to create something before she does, and sometimes you rush because of that. So you have to, like, you know, maybe, like, when I was, like, playing against her, like, you know, I was feeling like, okay, she's hitting the ball very fast, and she's taking the ball very early. So I felt like I had no time. So I was trying to go to middle, deep more, you know, to, like, neutralize, because then you. She doesn't have angle. And so to play against her, it's difficult because she's playing very close to line and very aggressive, and whenever she has the chance, she can create an angle. So she's not someone who's just playing, like, down the lines or, like, flat, deep balls, but she can also use the angle. So you have to cover all the court, basically, and you have to do it very fast. And the balls are very low, too, so you have to be down and low and to, you know, to be like, you need to be ready for the. Those hard shots.

[Kim Clijsters]

Do you like to practice with her? Do you practice together a lot when you're at the. At the same event?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

We do practice. Not a lot, but we do practice together. I'd like to practice with her because, you know, it's. It's like you have rhythm, right?

[Kim Clijsters]

Like.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes, exactly. And to play with her, like, to rally with her, like, you get a good rhythm when you're hitting with her, and it's fun.

[Kim Clijsters]

Do you like hitting? Do you like playing against the hard hitters?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I like playing against the hard hitters. So for me, like, when I. In Australia, for example, when I was playing as Alexandrova, and then, like. And then I had a match where I play against Anna, but, like, for example, Alexandrova and Putin Sava, like, two opposite players. Like. I know, I know. Like, when I play against Alexandrova for the second. It was the second time that we were playing as I played against her in the third round of Wimbledon and in Australian Open. So when. When I was playing as her in Australian Open, I had the idea of, like, how I should play, and I knew how she was playing because I played against her before, and she. She hits the ball very heavy. I think she is the person that I played, like, who's the biggest hitter that I've ever played against. Like, when she hits the ball, her balls are coming very heavy and fast. Like, you can't just block the ball. Like, you have to, like, use your core and, like, you know, your whole body to be able to block the ball. So. But I knew that. And because I knew that, I knew how I had to play against her. You know, I knew that, like, even I knew how I needed to warm up. I said, you know, we need to, like, activate my core. We need to, like, I need to stay down, so I need to activate my glutes and my hamstring and my legs a lot and my calves. So when I go on the court, I should be a little bit tired, you know? Right.

[Blair Henley]

If you don't mind maybe throwing out one more. I know you played Maria Sakkari a few times, so I'm curious what you feel like you have to do in order to get a win and what she does that's effective on the court.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Okay. So I played against her three times. I won once, I lost twice. I believe. And when I played against her for the first time. So to be. To be clear, I love Merida. I love playing there. I don't.

[Blair Henley]

Yeah. Can you tell the people why? Zeynep, tell them why you love Meredith.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Because. Because I think it's. I. I won my first title there, WTA title, and I think we. I don't know, there's a different connection. Like, I love going there, and I. I feel it so strongly that they love me there. And so, like, when I go there, I feel like, you know, I enjoy playing tennis. And, like, in last one or two years, there's something I realized about myself that I play so much better when I enjoy being on the court, when I have fun. You know, there are some players, I think, who likes, you know, like, problems, struggles, like, you know, like, I love to struggle sometimes. You know, it's just. It's just, you know, it. It really makes you feel like, okay, I'm doing something good. But sometimes it's. It's like, you know, like, when I enjoy being on the court, when I enjoy the environment, I play my best tennis. I don't know if it's, like, relatable, but. Yeah, like, if it makes sense, but sure. You know, I. I feel that they love me so much, and I. I'm like, I don't want to leave this place. You know, I want to play. I want to keep playing here. I want to win. And, you know, so in Merida, we Played against. I played against her for the first time in Merida, and so she's a great player. She's a very experienced player. I love her, and I love sharing the court with her. She. We had the game plan. We were gonna mostly, you know, I don't know if, like, I don't say it, but, you know, like, overall, like, they're. They don't have, like, huge things that you can. Like, you know, I'm just gonna play to her forehand.

[Kim Clijsters]

Right.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Or, like, you have to be specific with what you're doing. You can't just hit forehand or hit to her backhand. So the game plan was like, yeah, I'm gonna attack the forehand, and if something drops short, like, I'm just gonna go in, and I will try to be aggressive. I will try to use the middle of the court more, because the middle deep is always tough. It's always, like, you don't have Angle. You don't have. Like, you can't really create anything unless hitting the ball back. And when it's fast and deep, it's. It's. It's. It's a problem.

[Kim Clijsters]

Like, it's.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

It's very tough to handle that. So our game, like. Like, our plan was like, you know, try to be aggressive and then get. If I get anything short, I. I will try to go in, and I will try to mix it a little bit. Yeah, it sounds something that we're working on. We're trying to add, like, slides and drop shots and, you know, maybe some high balls to my game.

[Kim Clijsters]

It's a nice feeling. I feel like playing a player who doesn't rush you. Right. Like, we were talking about, like, a sabalenka who puts a lot of pressure. But when you play a player who doesn't rush you, I feel like it's. The control is coming from your racket. You can kind of dictate whether you want to be the one attacking or, you know, building the points and waiting for the right decision. And, you know, you need those matches, too. Right. Like, to build the confidence a little bit and. Yeah. So good. That's. Well, let's put in a request in the WTA to add some tournaments, some extra weeks in Merida for you.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

But, you know, it's just like, when a player's playing very fast, you start to rush, and I think your brain, like, your thoughts are getting unclear, too, because you're rushing there too well.

[Kim Clijsters]

You have to try to do the same to them first. Right.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Like, you have to. So you start to rush, and you start to not think clearly because you're rushing. So it's all connected, you know, so it's. It's just. It's tough to play against.

[Kim Clijsters]

That takes time. Because the more you'll play them, the more, like, you'll get used to that, right? You'll. You'll. You'll use that in the practice courts. Your first experience against the Sabalenka or Rybakina, or, like, you'll. You'll get. You'll know what that feels like, and then you'll take that to the practice courts, and then the next time you'll be a little lower, faster. You'll be, you know, take the racket back a little bit sooner. Like, you'll make little adjustments, and they're not like big technical changes, but you'll adjust little things here and there that will make you feel more comfortable the next time. And that's how you, after a while, just become used to kind of that. The power from the other side.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Exactly. Yes. I hope.

[Kim Clijsters]

I mean, I feel like I can talk about tennis the whole time. Like, I would love to pick your brain about, like, where, you know, you just mentioned it before. Like, I want to add, you know, a little bit of the variety to my game, like, the slices and the volleys. Like, I saw some highlights of you with, where you basically, like, played the perfect point, like, finish it with a volley, and it was like a really nice, like. Like highlight. And it just, you know, I. When I was younger, like, we were taught to have an overall game. Like, we had to practice our volleys. Like, we were taught to play doubles early because we had to, you know, become good. Like, we had to be good doubles players as well, because it would make us better singles players. So I'm happy to hear that you're adding that to your. To your portfolio. And. But it's. Yeah. I'm just curious if you still feel like, you know, you mentioned the serve. Like, I'm not a greatest server. Like, are you. You know, what is your approach to that? Is it like, it is what it is, or how can I work on the details to just get better and better?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes, I'm definitely about everything. I feel like I can get so much better than. Than right now. So we. I'm definitely thinking, like, oh, what should I do? You know, what. What should I change? So, and for like six straight months, every single day I watch your match, I was thinking, like, like, what can I do to, you know, and I didn't have a coach, and I was thinking, like, okay. If I watch too much, maybe I'll start to do it. You know, my body would think, like, I need to do this. Or, like, you know, I watched it so many times, I would just do it, like, and I would watch her match my match. Yes. Again, I would watch you against Justin because, like, you know how she would adapt to slices? Like, which footwork would she do? Or, like, how would she. Like, you know, when the ball is short, would she. Would she hit and go to Ned or would she back. Like, she would wait on the baseline, you know, So I was trying to, you know, see some things and I would take notes and, you know, like, so you helped me a lot.

[Kim Clijsters]

That's nice to hear.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

But, you know, it's. It's just like, it's. At some point, I feel like it's just so small. The difference are. Differences are so small, but it takes hours and hours to, like, improve them. So I am definitely working on many things, like my forehand, my backhand. Like, with my backhand, we don't really. We're not trying to change a lot of things with my backhand, but with my forehand, like, run around forehands, like inside outs, inside ends, and, you know, like, to be able to. Like to, like when I'm playing fast, to be able to mix it with a high ball sometimes to change the rhythm, you know, we're working on a lot of things, but, like, if you have any recommendations, if you. If you watched me play, I would love to hear it.

[Kim Clijsters]

I. I'll. Well, I'll get your number. Thank you. No problem. I'll give you mine.

[Blair Henley]

I love.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I love this. Yeah. But overall, I'm. I'm really trying to, like, improve my serve because I feel like I'm doing so much better in my return games and if I can add more to my serve and we've been working on it. We worked on it in preseason quite a lot, and we're still working on it. And it's not like we can make huge changes because I'm playing tournaments at the same time. But we're trying to adjust it, like, slowly to be able to get where, like, you know, where we want to

[Kim Clijsters]

and, you know, the structure, like with Isam of, you know, building those changes. Right. It takes time, but I feel like there's no better teacher than going through it in the matches and experiencing, you know, like, oh, here my forehand was a little bit off. Like, you can look at my matches and say, like, oh, what did I do? And Justine sliced. But until you Feel it for yourself. I feel like that was, to me, my biggest teacher is like, yeah, I saw Steffi Graf hit the, you know, the inside out forehand, and I looked at her footwork. But, you know, it's just. You create your own little. Little habits in your head and. And that work for you. And. Yeah. And I think. But it's all. You know, it's just nice to hear, like, that mindset of. There's players. I've talked to players who. Who just want to stick to the same routine all the time and don't want to change anything. And then there's other players who, after every match, loss, want to change the racket, want to change the tension of the strings. You know what I mean? Like, there's players who look outwards for changes and material, and then there's players who like to adjust and dissect the game and look very inwards and try to make a lot of changes.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yeah, I'm not someone who would like to change my racket or string.

[Kim Clijsters]

No, I wasn't like that either.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

No. But, like, about my game, definitely there. There are a lot of things, like, I watch my matches after I win or lose, and I would. I hate. I hate watching my matches after I lose.

[Kim Clijsters]

But, no, it's horrible.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I was like, why did you hit there?

[Kim Clijsters]

What was I thinking? Stupid mistake. That's when the. The criticism comes in.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Exactly. Oh, it helps a lot. Like, it. It really, really helps. So I force myself to watch them, and I'm. I'm trying to see, like, okay, I did this there. But, like, why did I do that? Do I. Like. And I'd like to take notes. Like, I watch. I have a notebook that I just write about tennis and, like, in the matches, too, I read them because, like, sometimes, you know, in the moment of, like, pressure, like, where you feel like, okay, I'm. I'm under pressure, like, when you. When you can't think so clearly, you know? But there are things that I wrote, like, when I was very calm and, you know, when my brain was working, like, 100. So I. I like to go back and read, like, okay, what did I write for this match? And I'm like, zainab, just calm down and enjoy. First of all, just calm down, right? It's gonna end. So just try to calm down and try to do what you need to do. And I write the things that we talked about before the match, like, about what I need to do.

[Kim Clijsters]

But don't you feel like a lot of times there is no answer because there's you only have like a fraction of a second. Like, if you ask yourself, like, why did I make that decision? It's like, I don't know. Like, I just did. Like, I didn't. You know, I just like automatic pilot, basically. And. And it's. Yeah, that's the tough part and the good part about our sport is that, you know, sometimes there is no answer. I just did. And I'm going to try to not make that mistake. Stake again. Like, exactly.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

No, exactly. Definitely in between points, of course. But, like, when I sit down, I like to, you know, sometimes. For example, like, because. For example, because hitting backhand cross court is my comfort zone, I. But I actually have to play to her forehand. But because it's my comfort zone and I'm so stressed, I go back to do that. But actually I have to play for her backhand line because I. We. We talked about this before the match and we said I was going to play against, like, play to her forehand. But, you know, like, I write those kind of things to remind myself. Like, okay, Zainab, sometimes, like, you're lost, but, you know, this was the structure. Like, remember that. Okay? Do what you feel comfortable with. But, like, remember that, for example, even if I have to play to her forehand, but, like, it's on at side and she's serving second serve and it comes to my forehand, if I feel more comfortable hitting inside out. And if it's an important point, I will go inside out.

[Kim Clijsters]

Yeah.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

It doesn't matter what the plan is.

[Kim Clijsters]

No, I think that feeling, I think, is number one. First of all. Right. Like, is. Is. But then, you know, if you. If you feel like, okay, this is not going where I want it to go. Let's go back to what we discussed. Like, we also. I think every tennis player has a stubbornness to themselves where you want to stick to your strength and also sometimes try to beat your opponent to their strength as well. But, yeah, it's. That's part of the. The game of chess that we play in our head when we're on the tennis court.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Exactly. Yes.

[Blair Henley]

How long after a loss do you wait to watch the match? Do you get a buffer?

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yeah, I mean, it depends how I lost the match. If it was a horrible match, I need a day.

[Blair Henley]

Okay. 24 hour buffer zone.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yeah. But sometimes, like, I lose the match and then, like, in few hours, hours, we just go back and watch the match again. So it depends how I lost the match. Like so. But I mean, I would say like, in. In 24 hours, I, I, I watch it for sure.

[Kim Clijsters]

Do you, do you talk about the match right after, when you're doing your recovery or like, you just are out for a little bit and you wait until you.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

I know they do. So when I'm biking, they come and they start to talk to me, and it depends if I win. I'm, I'm okay to talk, of course, but if I lose.

[Kim Clijsters]

But that's the routine. Usually like to go through it a little bit.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes, even, even a little bit. Like, they would ask me, like, how did you feel? You know, and then I would just tell them how I felt and, but we would not talk, like, very deeply about the match when I'm biking, like, just like, for like five or 10 minutes overall. Like, when I was like, you know, for example, when I play against Maria in Qatar, after the match, I wanted to talk because I said, you know, I, I was trying to do the things that we were practicing on practice, which I'm not very comfortable with, and it did not work out well. I didn't feel like I was me on the court, so I had to tell them this as fast as I can because I, sometimes I don't want to lose my, like, you know, I don't want to lose that feeling. So I want to just, I said, you know, like, I felt like I was someone else on the court because I was trying to do the things that we were working on, but I feel like I was, I was not. Like, I didn't put anything from myself, so I just talked right away. But it really depends. Like, after I lost against Putin, Saba, we talked the day after. So it always changes.

[Kim Clijsters]

Only after the loss. It changes.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes, yes, exactly.

[Kim Clijsters]

After win.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

It doesn't matter.

[Kim Clijsters]

We can talk about.

[Blair Henley]

This was so much fun and we appreciate your time so much. And listen, you and Kim are gonna be fast friends. I will also be in Miami, so I hope I get to meet you in person.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Yes, please, please. Safe travels.

[Kim Clijsters]

Enjoy your time in Miami.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

[Kim Clijsters]

No problem.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

It was a pleasure to be here with you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

[Kim Clijsters]

Bye.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Bye.

[Blair Henley]

Thank you all so much for joining us for another episode of Love All. I had the best time hearing from Kim and Zaynep. We hope you did too. Join us every Wednesday for new episodes like and subscribe on YouTube. Follow us on all our socials @loveallpodcast and we'll see you next week.

[Kim Clijsters]

See you next week. Bye.

[Blair Henley]

Shot clocks, big shots, upsets, aces, tgl Playoffs are here.

[Kim Clijsters]

First, Atlanta Drive starts their repeat run against Los Angeles Golf Club. Then Rory's Boston Common Golf and Tigers Jupiter Links face off in their playoff debuts.

[Blair Henley]

Who will advance?

[Kim Clijsters]

Keep up its playoffs tune in Tuesday, March 17 at 6:30pm and 9pm only on ESPN and the ESPN app Monster Energy.

[Blair Henley]

Everybody knows White Monster Zero Ultra.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

That's the OG it kicked off this

[Blair Henley]

whole zero sugar energy drink thing, but

[Zeynep Sonmez]

Ultra is a whole lineup now.

[Blair Henley]

You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise

[Kim Clijsters]

and Vice Guava, and they all bring the Monster Energy punch.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

So if you've been living in the White can branch out.

[Blair Henley]

Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar.

[Zeynep Sonmez]

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