Can Dave Portnoy be canceled?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Settle In with PBS News Episode: Can Dave Portnoy be canceled? Date: June 30, 2026

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode features a candid, wide-ranging conversation with Dave Portnoy, founder of Barstool Sports, on the release of his new book Cancel Me If You Can. The discussion delves into Portnoy’s journey from distributing a local gambling newsletter to heading a modern media empire, his views on cancel culture, controversies involving Barstool and himself, his stance on media, politics, and personal experiences with anti-Semitism. The episode seeks to understand not just if Portnoy can be “canceled,” but why he is so polarizing, and what that says about America today.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Motivation Behind Writing the Book

• Portnoy admits ego played a role and the appeal of seeing his book in stores was motivating. Initially, he planned to use a ghostwriter but rejected the draft as it “just did not sound like me” (01:20).
• Writing it himself was much more challenging than he expected: “To capture 20 something years into a book was difficult. It was harder than I thought.” (01:43)

2. Barstool’s Origin Story & Growth

• Started in 2003 with a 4-page gambling newspaper distributed free in Boston. Portnoy did everything—writing, ads, distribution—and didn’t make a profit for a decade (04:34–06:16).
• The company’s rise was slow and steady, driven by timing, the explosion of Boston sports, Internet/blog culture, and “luck” (07:01–08:38).
• Barstool’s audience started as young, male, and sports-focused but now spans a diverse range with successful female creators and varied content (08:50–10:03).

3. Barstool’s Brand and Cultural Perceptions

• Portnoy acknowledges labels like “bro” and “fratty” have described their audience, but sees the company as more multifaceted and diverse (10:30–10:39).
• On “manosphere” associations: Portnoy distances himself from figures like Andrew Tate, clarifying Barstool is not on the far end of that spectrum, despite often being grouped there (11:24–13:13).

4. On Controversies, Sexism, and Cancel Culture

• Portnoy sees Barstool’s story as a continual struggle against attempts to “cancel” them—attackers seeking to “take away our reputation, advertisers, say these guys don’t have a right to exist” (02:16).
• When questioned about sexism, Portnoy defends provocative content as comedy, not malice. He points to double standards in perception of gendered jokes, but concedes some past jokes would not be made today due to changing cultural standards (15:51–18:33).
• Notable quote on apology and controversy:

  “A lot of times I feel like people apologize just for the sake of getting this controversy behind them ... We never did that.” (21:58)

• On evaluating jokes now: “If this joke isn’t laugh out loud funny and very intelligent, skip it. It’s not worth it." (19:42)

5. The Role of Controversy in Barstool's Success

• While controversy was never a strategy, it built audience loyalty and a “fierce, loyal readership.” The business has often emerged stronger after scandals (23:16).

6. Political Engagement and Media Skepticism

• Portnoy interviewed Donald Trump as a sitting president, partly for the honor and reach, but also wrestled with his own lack of political depth (24:45–27:47).
• He self-identifies as a moderate or libertarian: “The extreme left hate me, the extreme right hate me. That’s probably a good spot to be in.” (29:05)
• Deep distrust of institutional media:

  “They couldn't say that loudly enough.” (on being skeptical of mainstream media, 32:04)

7. On Media Responsibility and Influence

• Portnoy says he didn’t ask for the role of unifier or influencer in national debates: “I haven’t thought of that as part of my role ... It’s not my personality.” (38:17)
• He views Barstool as primarily comedic, even as it’s become “big enough where it’s like, okay, what’s the worst that can happen?” (36:14)
• Defends personal responsibility over “nanny state” regulations, including for gambling and addictive behaviors (41:24–43:04).

8. Dealing with Anti-Semitism and Personal Attacks

• Portnoy describes a sharp rise in anti-Semitic attacks since October 2023 and the personal security measures he’s taken as a result (43:51–46:09).
• Notable moment:

  "I have pretty thick skin. But you're talking about my parents, my family. It's a scary, scary time.” (45:59)

9. Reflection on Success and Change

• Portnoy calls the Barstool story a “fairy tale,” fulfilling the American Dream but not following a plan (47:17).
• He’s become “a lot more cynical,” especially towards politics and the media (48:18–48:36).

10. Information Ecosystem and Trust

• Now distrusts most mainstream outlets, relies on X (Twitter), and tries to parse both sides of news (49:04–50:06).
• On public divisiveness and being “canceled”: “People who love me will believe anything I say. People who hate me will never believe anything I say. And there’s really very little I can do to change either side.” (00:00, 53:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On cancel culture and divisiveness:

  "People who love me will believe anything I say. People who hate me will never believe anything I say. And there’s really very little I can do to change either side." – Dave Portnoy (00:00, 53:56)

• On authenticity and controversy:

  "Our ability to stand our ground against our haters maybe the most important ingredient of our success." – Portnoy (21:46) "If you don't let the other side speak, you don't hear them out, and you've already made up your mind, you're not going to get very far." – Portnoy (51:43)

• On his political identity:

  “The extreme left hate me, the extreme right hate me. So that’s probably a good spot to be in.” – Portnoy (29:05)

• On jokes and boundaries:

  “If this joke isn’t laugh out loud funny and very intelligent, skip it. It’s not worth it ... Nothing is done out of hate. We're trying to make people laugh.” – Portnoy (19:42)

• On media and trust:

  “I no longer trust, like, 90% of these institutions, and I don't really trust anything I read, see, in the media. So that's the biggest change I've had is I've just become much more cynical of everything that I read.” – Portnoy (48:36)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:37 – Portnoy’s motivation for writing the book, ego, and writing process
• 04:34–07:01 – Barstool's origin story and early struggles
• 10:03–13:13 – Perceptions of Barstool, "bro" culture, and manosphere associations
• 15:19–19:42 – Sexism controversies, changing boundaries of acceptable content
• 21:58–24:31 – How standing ground against critics fueled loyalty and success
• 24:45–27:47 – Interviewing President Trump and handling political influence
• 32:04–36:40 – Deep skepticism towards institutional media, defining "mainstream"
• 41:24–43:04 – Views on gambling, regulation, and personal responsibility
• 43:51–46:42 – Portnoy’s perspective on the rise of anti-Semitism and personal impacts
• 47:17–48:36 – Reflections on 20 years of Barstool, personal change, and cynicism
• 49:04–51:43 – Navigating today's information ecosystem, divisiveness, and platforms

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Concluding Thoughts

The conversation with Dave Portnoy is a revealing look into the mind of one of media’s most polarizing figures. Portnoy is open, blunt, and often defensive, acknowledging the controversies and complexities of his career and public persona. Despite acknowledging Barstool’s immense influence, he frames himself as outside the mainstream, eager to defend his version of truth and authenticity—even as he admits the impossibility of winning over his harshest critics. The episode encapsulates the deep divides and media trust issues animating American society today while inviting listeners to question both Portnoy’s legacy and the forces that shape public opinion.

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Transcript

[A]

People who love me will believe anything I say. People who hate me will never believe anything I say. And there's really very little I can do to change either side.

[B]

Dave Portnoy. Welcome to settle in. Thanks so much for joining us.

[A]

Thanks for having me.

[B]

So I think it's fair to say you've kind of been an open book. You're very not shy about sharing your views, very accessible, and you have really redefined what a modern media company can look like. So I was surprised to learn you wrote a book because the book is kind of a traditional media route to go. Tell me about what made you want to write this book.

[A]

I think it was my ego. So, you know, or maybe it's a, like, reflection of my age. But when this was pitched to me, like the idea of walking down an airport and, like, seeing a book in the window or in bookstores, that appealed to me. I also was going to have a ghostwriter. And I'm like, all right, well, I can do all this, have a ghostwriter. It won't be that much work on my end. And the ghostwriter actually wrote the book. It's a guy who worked for us who I thought knew me really well. It's actually a good book. But he spent months, six, eight months reading it. I read the first paragraph and I was like, well, this cannot be the book because it's not me. Like, I knew right away. It's like, oh, this does not sound like me.

[B]

I.

[A]

So then I wrote it. I don't know if I knew how much work it would take to write the book, whether I would agree to write the book in the first place, but we're so far down the line, so it's those two things. I definitely. My ego, the thought of having a book appeals to me, and I didn't realize how much work it would be.

[B]

Was there anything about the process that. That surprised you? Aside from how hard it was? How much work it was?

[A]

I. It surprised me how much work it was. I know that's aside, but. And I've written a lot, like the early bar days I really spent writing. But to capture 20 something years into a book was difficult. It was harder than I thought. It was very difficult.

[B]

And the title, I mean, cancel me if you can, it feels like a very kind of pointed message at people who have maybe you would describe as, like, come for you in the past. What was it you were hoping to get across? Was there, like, a message you wanted to correct with the stories in here?

[A]

Well, I don't know that I'LL ever be able to correct. What I would say is like false stories or stories I don't agree with because I've tried forever. But I do feel like part of the barstool story, a part of my story is people trying to basically cancel us. I mean, trying to take away our reputation, take away advertisers, say these guys don't really have a right to exist type situation. And we've gone through it a lot and been fighting just battles really for the last 10, 15 years.

[B]

Is there something specific? Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead.

[A]

No, no, that's it.

[B]

Is there something specific about the, like the attacks or the pressure that you felt at Barstool that's different from like any other company that starts to get big?

[A]

Oh yeah. I would say there's a lot of companies that did very similar stuff or made very similar jokes that had none of the backl that we would whether and I mean there's so many companies that kind of came and went during our time, but whether that's like a Bro Bible, a Chive Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue, for example, definitely didn't get like the blowback that we. We would get when we're doing similar things. I think that's a why in the media, a lot of times you'll see us mentioned in, in articles. I don't even know, like a barstool conservative or whatever it may be. It's a lot of times it's us like not other. So I do think we were for sure and it may be because we're very vocal and fight back, but we for sure, I think were used as an example in a lot of these cultural battles.

[B]

You feel like the brand itself has become a lightning rod, 100%.

[A]

And me, myself.

[B]

Yeah. So let's, for folks unfamiliar, let's back it up a little bit and tell them kind of the story of barstool and how it became what it is. Because you, you've describ. Described it and you write about it in the book. You started with a four page gambling rag in your own words. Right. Something you would literally hand out for free at the train station. Tell me that story. Where were you when was this and what were you hoping to build when you first started this?

[A]

Yeah. So this is 2003, 2004. I had worked a sales job since I graduated college in 99, so like four or five years. And I really didn't want to work for somebody else. I wanted. I couldn't imagine waking up and Doing something I hated. And at that time, when I graduated college, economy is great. By that time is the dot com boom. My boss at Yankee group just got woke up one day, was there 20 years, got laid off. I'm like, I need to try my own thing. I can't imagine that scenario. And I want to find something I enjoy doing. So I love sports, I love gambling. That was the route that I took. I called advertisers both onshore, like a foxhoods casino, offshore, everywhere, and tried to get into the industry. And they said, if you can produce this newspaper, a gambling kind of fantasy sports, we'll advertise. So that was the genesis of where I came up with the concept of barstool sports. And it was a time in Boston where the local media kind of hated the local teams. Like this is pre blog, really. And like if you wrote about the Red Sox, you actually seemed like you were rooting against the Red Sox. Like you, you wallowed in their misery and wanted them to lose. And we took a very fan first approach. Like we're rooting for the Red Sox and we share your misery, want them to be good. So that is where the concept came from. It's supposed to be a fan gambling newspaper. And I handed it out outside of subway stations in Boston. We had news racks that people could pull them for free. I did like a 48 hour paper route, just filling up all bars and stuff. I wrote, I did everything in the paper. I wrote it, I sold ads, I did whatever had to be done, I did.

[B]

What were you making back then compared to what you make now?

[A]

Well, I wasn't making anything. I was just trying to break even. I had saved my money from my previous job and the goal was always to break even. So if the newspaper in the early days cost me about $3,000 to print it, publish it, get it out, and I'm like, if I can get $3,000 worth of ads, I break even and I can survive. I moved home, so we weren't making anything. I don't think we made anything for like 10 years, to be totally honest. Like, if we made something, it was almost nothing. It was break even. If you could break even, you're doing good. What we make now, I mean, we make tens of millions. So that is, we're in a different spot.

[B]

I mean, objectively, it's a behemoth, right? This is a media empire you have now built. And it's as you said, you know, you make tens of millions of dollars now. So what do you, when you look back at the journey. What do you attribute that trajectory to? What was sort of the rocket fuel that got you where you are today?

[A]

Yeah, we never had rocket fuel in the sense of. It's like you never saw us just go, boom, straight to the moon. Like, you see the rocket ships, all the smoke come out and goes directly up. We were slow and steady. I attribute to a couple factors. One, luck, which adding any business that says that becomes as successful as ours didn't benefit from being the right place, the right time, technology. They're probably not telling the truth. So luck played in our factor. Right guy to capitalize on the luck. Me. And it's a. You were a product of our time in our space. Like, I think if we started Barstool 10 years later, we're not where we are. But we were just right at the advent of kind of the Internet blog sphere. Boston is where it started. Boston sports exploded right as we started. Like Boston. Boston was viewed as a cursed sports town before we started in 2003. Suddenly, the Patriots hadn't won, the Red Sox hadn't won. Suddenly, that's all they did. And we became the face of, like, the Boston sports fan. The Internet came around at the right time, and everything just played together with really talented people to be in the right spot to take advantage of it.

[B]

You've always also focused, you know, your audience. Right. Like, it was built on, I think it's fair to say, heavily male, mostly younger audience. Is that right? Does it still skew that way?

[A]

From what you see, it's kind of all over the place now because. And interesting. We. The reason we knew our audience is because we were our audience. So we wrote about things and talked about things that were inherently interesting to myself or the other people we hired. But our audience is definitely. I mean, I'm 49, so I've had people following me now for 25 years, half my life. So if we want to say 49 is young, I'm all for it because I'm 49. But, you know, our audience has certainly grown with me. We still have young people, old people. We have had, I would argue, two of the most successful female creators in the digital era with Jenna Marbles and Alex Cooper. So we really kind of skew all over the place. Like, sometimes people don't get all the things we do, but we have a military podcast, a gay podcast, sports podcast. We. I mean, we just have whatever you're interested in, you can do. So we're all over the map. We. I think the best compliment, maybe Somebody could give me about Barstool is we've managed to stay cool and cutting edge for, like, two decades, which is so hard to do in media.

[B]

Yeah. And I should say full disclosure, like, I'm probably not in your core demo, but, like, your stuff ends up in my feeds because I consume a lot of sports content, so your clips from your sports shows end up coming my way, and I do end up watching them. So that's a testament to how you guys are reaching a lot of different folks. But you mentioned earlier, too, this. There's this term barstool bro. Right. Like, people kind of have a brand associated with you. Is. Is that fair in your view? Like, what does that mean to you?

[A]

It can be fair. We definitely have some bros. I think sometimes that's a really simplistic way to look at, like, what we're doing. But, you know, we fratty is another way that people would say we're popular in frats, for sure. And, like, we had Saturday for the boys. That phrase that went crazy. It's like guys having fun on Saturdays, and we like sports and we like girls. And I think that is kind of what the bro side comes about. Like, which I think is. It's also, I think, kind of normal. It's a lot of. A lot of people, we don't apologize for it. So, sure. I think that is a. There's definitely a large portion of our fans that I would say, like, yeah, you're bro. Like lax bro, hockey, bro, whatever it may be.

[B]

And this idea. I know you've been asked about this before, this idea of, like, the manosphere, right. That there's a male dominant, male centered culture, do you consider yourself part of that?

[A]

I think we get thrown in it, but I think there's probably. If you put like a chart and you're going from who's the extreme right, like a Tate. To I don't know. I don't know what the extreme left is. I don't think we're nearly as far down the manosphere as maybe people may expect. I. A lot of times I think Barstool sees me and they're like this barstool. You know, for a long time I was going on Fox News, and it's like, well, that puts you in some. I interviewed Trump. That puts you in a manosphere thing. But if you're really paying attention, in my mind, we're a very diverse group under the hood. We have, like, I'm probably in the minority in a lot of my views and can swing left. And if You've paid attention. I'm not saying you, but like, people have actually seen what Dave said in different issues. I don't. I think you'd be like, he's not nearly. There's certain things I feel strongly about, but he's not nearly as far in, I guess the manosphere as I think it's defined, which is this male dominant. Like, and I don't even know exactly what it means, but like, if I'm saying Tate, he's like, men are superior to women.

[B]

Like, right. You're referring to Andrew Tate. We should.

[A]

Andrew Tate, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now if you go. We had him on our podcast BFF before, right on the cusp of him blowing up, like, and I was arguing with him, saying that like, I thought he was crazy. Like, I don't agree with anything he's saying. I think most people would be if you just said, does Dave agree with a lot of what Andrew Tate says? They'd be like, yeah, it's like, well, that's just not true. You haven't listened to a lot of things I've said. But I also think there's things that's crazy. I'm very anti woke, like, and I think that sometimes will be like, oh, he's in the manosphere. I don't know if I agree with it, but that's how a lot of people look at us, that's for sure.

[B]

I mean that you mentioned the spectrum of views and sort of the far end of that bro manosphere culture is a lot of that misogynistic, sexist, like, demeaning stuff. Well, before you get to the Andrew Tate's of the world, right. And I think it's also fair to say that stuff can sell, right? There's folks out there who hold those views or find it interesting to hear those views articulated out loud. And that can get you clicks and that can get you views. I wonder how you look at that. I mean, is that something that can be leveraged to help build an audience that hasn't been seeing that kind of language other places?

[A]

Yeah, it for sure can. I don't know that we've used it. And I guess there's different. Because what I will say, even as sexism or not probably varies with other people. Like, there's things that I'll be like, I think there may be. There may be some of you saying, hey, Dave, we think you're sexist. And I may turn around be like, I actually think you're being sexist. Like, an example I can give of that is we threw basically raves. Like, we threw parties we called the Blackout tour, and this is around 2010, in which, like the logo, you put a switch into a light socket and girls wore scantily closed outfits and came and danced and everything glowed. It was, it was like EDM music. And we were protested by a group, Kale Barstool. And they're like, this is sexist. You're putting these girls in these scantily clothes and objectifying them. And I would turn around to them and say, you're being sexist because these girls want to do it. They're having the time of their lives. And who are you to tell this college girl, a college woman, how she should act? So you're not smarter than them. You think you have the moral high ground. I think you're being sexist. So I guess it depends on, like, I think we've done a great job of valuing women, treating them the same exact way as men. But I'll also say, hey, I think that that girl or woman is hot. So where is the line in sexism? Like, I don't think that's sexist.

[B]

Yeah. And I think without getting into like a semantic back and forth on that, without labeling someone as something I'm surprised to hear you say, you don't think that you've engaged in sexism before. Because there's a lot of stuff, even in years, early years of Barstool, where with the Tiger woods controversy, for example, you were selling T shirts that had, I think I can say this on the air, nailing putts and banging sluts on it. That's objectively sexist. Right? Like, that was something you sold. That was a message you put out there. You wouldn't do that today. Is it fair to say?

[A]

Well, again, well, we, we. I, I would do it. I'm not morally opposed to that. I wouldn't do it because I know the culture we're in. But he was banging prostitutes.

[B]

That word, though, Dave, I mean, that word is incredibly demeaning. Right? Like, that's not a word you equally apply to men and women.

[A]

So at what level, if would you. We consider ourselves a comedy show, like a comedy website. So at what level is demeaning to you or someone who may think it? But if you want to go down the line, we've made T shirts and jokes. It's not like we're zeroing in on women. We say things about quite literally everybody. So we've sold all, like a Roy shirts. That's Alex Rodriguez, who did steroids or Things like that. So you could literally have a different group. And they have complained about every type of joke we've made, which to me, I think is clearly in the jest of comedy. So I'm not sure who we're offending. When you say Tiger woods nailing putts, singing putts, nailing sluts, I don't really have a problem with that. No.

[B]

But I wouldn't put saying Alex Rodriguez did steroids in the same category as calling women sluts. Right. Those are two kind of different categories there. And you've also been ask you about it now, so you have a chance.

[A]

Man, or say a man is a man. Is that fine?

[B]

I, I. Would you consider that fine? I mean, is that. Where is your line?

[A]

Consider that, like, all right, take Summer House right now, which is in the news.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this guy west is a main character. And I'm like, he. He's a. He. He sleeps with anybody he has anybody. Like, he. His dick will get hard, will do anything. I haven't heard anybody complain about that being like, how dare you do that? So to me, again, you know, if you pick and choose any cause, you can do it. But I'm not sure where the outrage or if Tiger woods was literally paying and having sex with prostitutes, where that outrage. How is that demeaning to women in general? I don't know.

[B]

So I'm curious on how. Because you've been doing this so long now and you mentioned, you know, the culture has changed, you're trying to keep up with it, too, as you serve your audience. Where do you see. Where do you see that line? The things that you would not say today that you have said in the past because you've. You've gotten heat for, like, jokes about rape in the past. Right. And you've said, I wouldn't say that today.

[A]

Correct. But even the way you say that, like, I believe you just said you've gotten heat for jokes about rape in the past. That's actually incorrect. You've gotten heat about one joke.

[B]

Okay. Correct.

[A]

But it's easy just to make it seem so. My point on that you use plural, as though that's something that's a joke. And keep in mind, in the book I'm writing blogs trying to be funny 10 to 15 times a day for five years prior to. To that one joke that someone went all the way back who already had an issue with me to dig up and say, aha, He. He's sexist. You went through five years of me making jokes and found one on a Known comedy site. And even flippantly right there to be like, you've made jokes. No, I haven't. What?

[B]

You're absolutely right. There's one joke. And just for folks who haven't are familiar, this is something you said back in 2010. Right?

[A]

Correct.

[B]

So 16 years ago. But you said you would not say that again.

[A]

I would not say that again.

[B]

So how do you read where the line is? Like, how do you judge?

[A]

It's a hard thing to do. But the memo that I. That I tried to give to our people. So when that joke was written, I'm in an era where I'm writing a blog every 45 minutes. No editor push. Go to the next. Find a story over and over. That's seven days a week, 10 to 12 blogs. No. And no one's really, like, said anything about it. As we got bigger, what I say is try not to put a book. And that joke I made, by the way, was not funny. I wish I didn't make it because it wasn't nearly funny enough. And it's misconstrued on what I thought I was trying to be funny about. But I say, don't put a ball on a tee for somebody like, you know, everyone's reading everything. You know, everyone's paying attention. Don't. If this joke isn't laugh out loud funny and very intelligent, skip it. It's not worth it. Are we always right? No. Do we have more eyes now on it? So if somebody sees something like, are you sure you want to do this? And it can get elevated all the way up to me, that's kind of how we do it. Knowing is probably a much more sensitive culture and more eyes. But the truth is, and this is an interview I did on that joke that kind of got edited out of context. I'm never trying to offend people, like, ever. If I'm. If, if you tell me this joke is really going to, like, offend what I consider rationally thinking people. Like, I can't worry about people who I think, no matter what I say, hate my guts and I'm gonna be mad. But if it's gonna offend people who you think are thinking clearly, I don't wanna make that joke. Like, I'm not. I'm not. Nothing is done out of hate. We're trying to make people laugh. So that's the line, really. It's like, are we gonna offend rationally thinking people? If it is, we don't wanna do it.

[B]

So you literally have your team run jokes up to you. To say, do you think it's okay to say this? And you vetoed things.

[A]

Now we have editors, so editors like, who we trust. If they think something is on that line and they don't trust their own decision, it'll get kicked up to me. And 99% of the time, to be honest, if it gets to me, it's like it's not even worth it.

[B]

There's a line from the book that stood out to me because you said our ability to stand our ground against our haters maybe the most important ingredient of our success. Why do you think that is?

[A]

So it. It endeared people to us and made a fierce, loyal readership. We, before we had any controversies really start in 2004, I think really that 2010. Ish. It was about the first. So we had a very loyal, big fan base who had been reading me and the other guys for quite a long time. And I knew they were loyal to me and they weren't going anywhere. And I didn't have anybody above me. I didn't have to work for boss. I didn't have to worry about big advertisers. So a lot of times I feel like people apologize just for the sake of getting this controversy behind them, moving to the next, Satisfying their boss, satisfying an advertiser. We never did that. And I think it was pretty rare in that I think made people, our fans, at least respect us and be like, you know what? I like what they're doing, and we will support them through thick and thin. And when you have that type of support, it lets you be true to yourself. And I, again, I think I said in the book, it also caused more controversies for us. And if you look back, would we be where we are without some of the controversies? I don't know. Maybe not. Like, I'm not quite sure about that.

[B]

I mean, does the controversy help build and grow the business? You write about that in the book too, right? You say, to quote Reggie Jackson, fans don't boo nobodies when you need page views. You write about me, I move the needle. Is that part of your strategy, Barstool?

[A]

It's not. It was never part of strategy, but we benefited from it. It's like, we never set out to be like, oh, we need to be this lightning rod. And we weren't for, like, a long time. And some of these big controversies, even if you. You see the way they developed, they weren't in real time almost, or, like, we didn't see them coming. They're. They're something that came out of left field. But they have, I would say, overall helped us. At times. I may be like, no, they're not helping us at all because we're losing advertisers. And, you know, that's key. But we. When you weather that storm, the advertisers tend to come back and your fan base really does. It does become stronger, stickier. I think I even said my. I can't so long since I read the book again. I think that my dad was like, I don't know how you do it, but you seem to come out of these controversies stronger than when you came in. I do think there's truth to that.

[B]

It's interesting to me to hear you describe what you do as, like, a comedy website and pure jokes and comedy. Because you do a lot of stuff. You do culture, you do sports, you do news, and politics ends up being a part of that.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So you, you did host Donald Trump in an interview back in 2020. Right. And you've disclosed before you voted it for him in the past. You voted for him in the most recent election, too. Why? Why host a presidential candidate for a comedy website? Why did you think that was a good move?

[A]

Well, he wasn't a candidate. He was a sitting president of the United States. So to me, to get asked to interview the sitting president was something that I couldn't turn down. I mean, I was stunned that they did it. They then asked me.

[B]

They came to you?

[A]

They came to me. Yeah. Like, I think they asked me on a Wednesday. And, like, Donald Trump wants you come to Rose Garden and do it. He had never done anything remotely similar with, like, a blog. He did a lot in the election, following which they. They asked us during the campaign to interview him, which we did not. Which I declined multiple times. So the sitting president. Yeah, it was a huge honor. And it would have been any president that I would have been like, oh, my God, I have to. I have to do this.

[B]

Why do you think they came to you?

[A]

Well, for sure, they want our audience. I mean, he lost that election. So I'm sure they were reading the tea leaves and they wanted access to our crowd. I'm sure.

[B]

And I wonder in your. So your bar stool is getting bigger and bigger. You have access to this huge, arguably influential audience. Influential enough that a sitting president wants to come and be able to speak to them. How do you, as Dave Portnoy, how do you view, like, your responsibility, your role in that moment?

[A]

The thing I wrestled with going into that the most is I. I don't consider myself like politically that deep. I, I mean, I get involved in issues, but if I'm talking about the Red Sox with you or the Celtics, and we were joking a little bit before. Yeah, I know if you say something's false, if. Or not true, I have enough knowledge, I can have a debate. No. Going in with a president, I, I know there's a lot where, like, if, if he says something, I can't really push back too well because I don't have the depth of knowledge. So that was a concern. I also didn't want it to be a total softball interview in which people are killing me about. So I wanted. I asked. When I did, I said, I'm not showing you the questions. I'm going to do whatever I want. I thought for my skill set it was as fair as you could ask. People will still on. It will be like, well, it was all layups. It wasn't all like. I asked him about Colin Kaepernick. I got into like, same mistake. I thought it was a decent interview for what. What my skill set for the time was. But I was concerned about, you know, how I. I don't. I don't want to be a total pushover. I want to ask some real questions, but it's like, am I the best to do that? I don't know.

[B]

Had you ever prepared for an interview like that before? I'm. I'm curious. This is interesting to hear you talk about you having these concerns going into it. Like, you, you knew you're not going to have pushback for some of the things he may say.

[A]

Yeah, well, and. And to go down a road of things. I don't. Yeah, I. It. No, I had never done an interview like that. I'm not really an interviewer, so those are all things that went through my mind also. I knew it would be the biggest thing I'd ever done. He's the president, so, you know, was something. There was a lot of factors, but the old Michael Jordan, like, blue states, red states, they all buy sneakers. Like, I knew it was something I had to do. I wanted it to be as good and down the middle as I could possibly do. But I was certainly nervous, intimidated, all of it. It was an intimidating experience.

[B]

Would you do it again today?

[A]

No, I don't think I would because I've already done it and would I do maybe a Democratic president? Different one. He has done since that interview, a ton in whether you want to call it the manosphere, the blogosphere. He sat down with everybody when I did it, he had sat down with nobody. So it was kind of a, at that time, felt like a huge honor.

[B]

Do you have a political view now? I mean, you've talked a little bit about kind of leaning more or identifying more as libertarian that you don't seem to like what the Democrats have been doing. But you supported Trump in the past. Sorry, go ahead.

[A]

Yeah, so I think I'm in a good spot. The extreme left hate me, the extreme right hate me. So that's probably a good spot to be in. And I was Trump first election. I think when people mentioned my name, a lot of people would be like, maga, he's Trump. No matter what Trump says, he agrees with. Not totally true. Like before the election, I said the second election, the one he just got elected, I said I would not vote for him. And the reason I gave is I thought he was too divisive. And I don't agree with a lot of things that are said about Trump. I think I do my best research. I think a lot of things are not true in fake media and all that. I do think there's a lot to it. So I don't always blame him.

[B]

We got. There are a lot of big words in that answer right there. What fake media? What is, what does that mean?

[A]

Let's take like people say if you voted for Trump, you're voting for. Use the word like a rapist or like a sexual assault. Nil quote. Who's the, what's the woman's name from Bergdorf?

[B]

The E. Jean Carroll.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like anybody that I'm going to say and support, I'm going to go research and see what they're talking about. For me, that accusation, that case, what I've read, which is she never mentioned it till he decides to run for president. There's no facts besides her word. And she's accused 21 people of the same exact thing. Maybe it's my life experiences. I don't give weight to that. So when that is said as fact, it's not fact to me. It's like he said, she said. That was brought up well after the fact and can easily be politicized. So that's one example of, of when I'm like fake media and things I don't believe. Like, I don't think you can say without the surrounding context that he's guilty of anything there.

[B]

Well, moment a judge said he was. Right.

[A]

Yeah, but based on those facts.

[B]

Right, but I mean, those were the facts of the case. I'll also just point out, Dave, since we're having this conversation, like, there's a lot of sexual assault conversations and allegations that end up being he said, she said, because that's the nature of those interactions.

[A]

Yeah, there are, and I've been accused of things that are totally false and, like, there's. There's proof behind it. But I. To say judges and the entire, entire, like, political system isn't highly politicized right now. I would disregard like, that. That.

[B]

Do you think the judge ruling against Donald Trump, and that was a political ruling.

[A]

I think you state to state, and you're gonna have innocent. Guilty, depending on who's, like, seeing it. Yes.

[B]

I think there's probably a lot of debate around that. But the larger question I was getting at here is this idea of fake news or fake media. You seem to be someone who's sort of highly skeptical of institutional media. Is that fair to say?

[A]

100%. They couldn't say that loudly enough, which

[B]

kind of begs the question. And I've been curious about this the whole conversation, because you don't have to talk to us. Like I said, I consume some of your media. I see how incredibly powerful and influential a voice you are. Obviously, I have questions I want to put to you. I was looking forward to this conversation, but why did you want to talk to us?

[A]

So this is obviously promoting the book, which I have to do. I.

[B]

Are you forced into this?

[A]

No, no. I know. I listen anybody. And this has been my kind of M.O. and. And I'm sure, like your producers or whoever told you, anybody who lets me record as well. So what is said can't be twisted. Which I learned early in interviews where I was seeing clips of mine. It's like, wait a minute. You cut off the second part of what I said to make me look like the devil. So anybody who's willing to sit down with me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And says, hey, you can keep a record of it, I'm happy to sit down with. And a lot.

[B]

You're recording on your end this whole conversation, too. Right. Because you don't trust anyone who you don't know and we don't know each other, I should say we're meeting for the first time.

[A]

Trust anybody who agrees to that. So, like, some of my more checkered past. If you want to say the things that be like, well, Dave did this, the Business Insider article, New York Times. I beg to sit down with these people, like, begged, and be like, you can record. You're. You're writing things that I know are false, and I have definitive proof that they're faults. And you won't meet with me, you won't sit down with me. If you're willing to sit down with me and let me. As long as I know things aren't going to be twisted, I'm happy to talk to anybody. I actually. And maybe it's not, Eva. I don't think it is at this point. I think I'm a good person. I don't have anything to hide. So if somebody's not coming in with agenda against me, I'm happy to sit down. And a lot of times I think maybe they'll walk away, be like, he's not who we thought he was. He's a lot more complicated or maybe interesting or whatever. So I never have a problem with sitting down.

[B]

You know, for everything you've built, from literally the ground up to this incredibly powerful company, this potent voice that you have. Honestly, I have to say what surprises me most about the conversation is how you still very much seem to see yourself as, like, an underdog, like, someone who people are coming for all the time, who has to scrap to stay alive. Is that a fair representation?

[A]

I don't see it. Like, even as we talk, my heart does start beating a little bit quicker, but it's not on the underdog because we. We've made it.

[B]

Like, as we're talking here, your heart's

[A]

beating faster because it brings up some of the stuff that drives me insane, like the Business insider and things that have been said, like, and it's never gonna happen, but I have a passion. I don't know if it's revenge. Like, I know things have been done to me that's, like, so wrong and dirty with the mainstream media that I get, like. Like, upset. Even talking about it still drives me nuts. So it's not the underdog because I know we're not. Like, and in fact, even we'll maybe see with this book. Like, I used to be able to drive people to go, drink this, go do this. When we're more on the up. Now it's harder because we've made it. And people see my lifestyle, and I was like, we don't necessarily need to support Dave, so it's not the underdog. But I don't like being done wrong. And it still upsets me. Some of the things that I feel I've been really wronged over the course of my career.

[B]

And, Dave, you have millions and millions of people watching your stuff every day now. Aren't you part of the mainstream media now?

[A]

It's a great question. Yeah, but we're still like, if you say barstool says something verse, cnn, npr, New York Times, Washington Post, that doesn't like hit. We're different. I mean we did start, I certainly do the politics, but the main barstool stuff is still generally 98% of the time meant to make you laugh. Like it is sort of a comedy brand. I've gotten bigger politics. I've said stay out of it. I get so wrapped up in it that sometimes I don't follow my own vice. And we're big enough.

[B]

I was going to say you don't stay out of it though.

[A]

We've become big enough where it's like, okay, what's the worst that can happen? But yeah, I definitely don't follow my own advice with it. But like when you say mainstream media, seeing a quote from barstool still does not carry for most people the same weight, I don't think as like established blue blood type news organizations, nor should it really.

[B]

So in the vein of not staying out of it, I have to ask because you've talked about Democrats losing men, losing young men and what they could have done differently. How do you think they're doing now?

[A]

I don't know. It'll be interesting to see. I think a lot of it is whose candidate, like what candidate comes forward.

[B]

Do you have someone you like.

[A]

Trying to think of anyone jumps out to me right now? I have a general distrust for like all politicians. But no, nobody's, nobody's leaping out in front of me. I mean, as I hope it's more uniting. I have a lot of people I don't like. I have a much larger list of people that I don't like than I do that I like, which is unfortunate.

[B]

It was also interesting to me in the interview you did with President TRUMP In 2020 that you did ask him about divisions in the country today. And you talked about and you asked him a couple of times, you followed up asking what he could do, like what could be done to try to bring people back together. And you've talked about this in recent interviews too. So I'm curious about how you in your role today as someone who's not shy about jumping into the debates and touching some of these third rails. How do you see your role? Like, whether or not you have a responsibility to try to bridge some of those divides too. Do you think that or no? Is that not part of your role?

[A]

I haven't thought of that as part of my role. It's not my personality. If you're a politician, I think it is part of Your role. And maybe I should look at it as a grander part of what my role is, because it's pretty far divided right now, I think the country, and it's toxic. Like, no matter what side, if I say one thing that's criticizing Trump, I get crucified on that side. If I say something that's against Mandami, I crucified on that side. So it's hard. It's a very hard. Because people are so entrenched in their views right now. It's very hard. But I've never thought as myself in my current role as being like, my job is to unite. I don't even know if I could because. But I think I'm pretty well disliked on both extremes.

[B]

The other thing I wanted to ask you about, which goes back to your earliest days and the roots of barstool is gambling and sort of gambling today, because you talk about it in a very open and casual way. Like, I know you still enjoy gambling, but there are studies out there and a lot of reports and a worrying trend about it becoming sort of a public health crisis in particular for young men. Right. Just the being able to access an app at any point or tap into a prediction market on any issue. And the links that we now see with depression and anxiety, and I just wonder how you will look at that now, how much of a problem it's become and whether you think talking about it, selling, celebrating it, even the roots of barstooler are partly to blame for where we are now.

[A]

Yeah, well, I don't agree with that. Obviously, that's partly to blame. I mean, I am very much not a nanny state. So protecting people from themselves is not a viewpoint that I'd have. Whether you're talking about alcohol, whether you're talking about gambling, a lot, I guess so called vices, weed, whatever, whatever it may be, I think individuals do have to take responsibility for their own actions. As far as the legalized gambling goes, and this is deep gambling talk, I think you are far safer with it being regulated and legal than it is betting with offshore bookies or just bookies in general, because of the nature of how it goes. So if you're betting with a bookie, you can be like, give me 100 bucks, give me a thousand bucks, give me 5,000. You keep running up this tab, you don't need the money. And then, oh, I'm down 10 grand and you got a bookie knocking on your door and you owe more than you can. Where with the legalize, it's like going To a casino, you need the money to place the bet. So most of these, like, people are gambling either. Like I was betting with a bookie before it was legal. Now I bet legal. A lot of people were. So I to blame, I think is more out in the open. But people are getting in trouble with. With illegal bookies, which to me is a far more dangerous situation. So I think it's better that's legalized.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're never going to get me to be like, oh, the government can tell me or should tell me what I can and can't do almost on any issue. Like, I don't want the government saying, you know, you can drink. I don't want a government saying you can or can't get an abortion. I don't want the government telling me I can place a bet. I almost, and I go back, I cross across like red, what blue the individual, to me is responsible for. The individual is generally how I view

[B]

almost everything, even if it's addictive in a way that companies are leveraging and able to make money off of and is moving into what some folks are calling like a public health crisis. You don't think there should be intervention?

[A]

I don't. Like, I just saw and I think, was it the UK where they're like, you can't go on the Internet if you're 16 because it's addictive or. I know.

[B]

I think there's social media crackdown too, in a lot of places.

[A]

Yeah, addictive. You want like calories out of food because it's addictive. I. To me, it's. It's. If you're going to pick one, I guess you got to regulate for everybody across every issue. And, and to me, humans are humans. That's part of being human. But it's up to the individual. Now, I'm not saying if you see a problem, you get help, you want to help, but I don't believe in the government telling people what they can and can't do. Now, you can advocate it. If you can do education and all this, be aware, but ultimately it's the human decision.

[B]

So this is a bit of a hard term, but I had to make sure I ask you about this because it's something that we cover quite a lot here in our work, and that is this other very worrying trend, this dangerous rise in antisemitism that we're seeing here in the US and around the world. And it's something I know you have been targeted by and deeply impacted by online. From what I've seen quite A bit, but also in person and a. I wanted to say I'm just so sorry you've had to deal with anything like that. I think anyone who's part of a minority religion here in this nation in particular knows how awful and how disconcerting and how scary that can be. And I just wonder how you look at that. Like, what do you believe is behind this rise in anti Semitism we're seeing right now?

[A]

Well, it definitely from where I started noticing it, like, I've been doing barstool for a long time and we get the occasional. But nothing. I would have never been like, oh, there's anti Semitism running wild in the United States or the world. I would have never said that till the attacks in October. And then it ramped to a level that is frightening and continues to ramp up.

[B]

You mean the Hamas attack?

[A]

Yeah, that was like, yeah, a major turning point, I think, in everything in Israel's response and what people think of that. So, yeah, it's super scary. I think. I think there's a lot of people probably, probably had anti Semitic views that were keeping them quiet. And this allowed maybe truly anti Semitic people to then voice their opinions freely because it's not really shut down. It's like almost amplified. And you're right now able. Allowed to say things about Jewish people that if you said right now about any other race would or religion would be like, you can't say that. That's not happening right now. And it's convoluted it. You know, the issue with Israel and Gaza and Palestine is a super complicated issue that I don't think is super complicated. Super easy answers. And there's a lot of people who believe truly in the issue. Like, you know, they're. Whether they're saying a genocide, which I totally disagree. But there you can make strong arguments in my mind on both cases. And then there's people who are just using as excuse to be anti Semitic. So you have all this going on and, and I've never seen anything like it. And it's very scary if you're a Jew or should be for anybody. And I'm not like, I was never like going to temple a lot, but when people saying and if you went in my DMs, I get, I don't know, depending on what's going on, a lot like, Daiju, you're dirty Jew. We don't care what you say. You name it, I get it. And I have pretty thick skin. But you're talking about my parents, my family. It's A scary, scary time.

[B]

I've noticed what seemed like maybe I'm wrong. Some added security around you when you go out to do pizza review videos that you do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You had to change how you kind of move through the world.

[A]

Yeah, it for sure has and it comes and it goes because anytime I speak about it, I'll get instant heavy backlash and then, yeah, I'll bring security if I'm around. It's been different times that I'll amplify or go down, but it is a absolutely real issue that I haven't encountered in my life anything similar to it. So it's real. I won't be talking about it so much and I feel like I have a duty to. But it's very scary.

[B]

You know, when you look back, I know this is what the book does as well, but over the last 20 years that you've built everything that you've built, that you are who you are today, you attract the attention you do good and bad in everything that you do.

[A]

Say again, you said good and bad. I think just good. But go ahead.

[B]

How do you, how do you begin to describe what these last 20 odd years have been like? Like, what are the words that come to mind when you look at what you've built and the place that you hold in the American conversation today?

[A]

I mean, it's kind of like a fairy tale. I do think it is the American dream to a sense of like Time magazine list us in their 250 most iconic companies in the history of the United States. Which is a pretty heavy thing to say. But to me it's. We worked really, really, really hard and we're able to achieve a lot of success. It's a little bit of the American dream. We didn't really have a plan. I was never. If you told me 20 years ago, I'm going to have, in the political discourse, I've been like, that's crazy. What are you talking about? So we haven't followed a plan. I don't really. How do you describe 20 years? It's a fairy tale. It's like a movie type thing. So why I'm happy the book is done. I think it's a pretty good, you know, record of barstool over the two decades. But I don't know, how do you describe. It's been a wild ride.

[B]

The company's changed a lot over those years. And what about you? How do you think you've changed over that time?

[A]

Just a lot more cynical.

[B]

Like really?

[A]

Yeah. And it's on the political Side, it's what I deal with most. I grew up in a family where my dad watched CNN Crossfire every day and read the New York Times every day, and everything they said was gospel. Like, that's the house I grew up in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just kind of. That's how I grew up. I no longer trust, like, 90% of these institutions, and I don't really trust anything I read, see, in the. In the media. So that's the biggest change I've had is I've just become much more cynical of everything that I read. That that would be my number one change, I think.

[B]

What do you trust? I mean, what do you read or listen to every day? Where do you get your news? How do you know what's going on?

[A]

Twitter is a lot. X. And then I'll just try to go down to parse through it to see, like, who's saying what. And unfortunately, 99% of the times, you can predict what the. If you read a tweet, like, interesting. You can predict the hundred treats below it by what they said in that one. They're all consistent and they're all either one side or the other. So it's really hard to get straight information. I try, but it's seems like everybody's coming at it from one angle or another, so it's pretty difficult. Including me. Like, I have my preconceived notions of people or things that it would take quite a bit, probably, at this point, to change my mind about.

[B]

But even X is. That's a collection of voices. Right. And that's now a oddly curated and heavily skewed collection of voices after Elon Musk's takeover. Right. So how do you. You're saying you don't re. You don't read the New York Times? You don't. You don't. You don't watch the PBS NewsHour?

[A]

Yeah, no, I don't. And I certainly don't read the Times. You know, if I'm watching and I want to see. This may sound insane, but if I'm watching, if something's on the news or I want to learn about something or an event happened, a lot of times, I'll just flick back and forth between, like, cnn, Fox News. Like, I'll just keep going back and forth. It's like two different worlds, but try to get from both sides and parse it out. But where are you getting a direct, like, unfiltered version? I don't know. Is it out there? I don't know. I like to think we are but, like, everybody's getting their information from somebody. And, you know, people always, like, you care so much about anti Semitism because you're Jewish. Like, yeah, no, like that. That is. Why would I be as invested if I wasn't? It wasn't my family. No, probably not. You're right about that. But I am, and I'm paying a lot of attention to it.

[B]

Well, I'll just say I'm biased, but I would say that is what we work towards every day, is to try to do that down the middle, straightforward reporting. But maybe you'll check us out and let me know what you think. I do want to go back to this idea before I let you go. Of the divisions we're seeing right now, it feels like that's the one thing everyone can agree on. And I think it's also fair to say, tell me if you disagree, that you would be in the category of people you might consider divisive in that people have a very strong opinion about you one way or the other. They love you or they really don't like you 100%. And I don't think it will surprise you to hear that. There'll probably be some people who don't want us talking to you will say, why would you give this person a platform? Why would you have this conversation correct? What would you say to those people?

[A]

I, you know, that's part of the divisive thing. But I, for me personally, I think if you put together, you don't say who you're talking to, right? And you just said like a silhouette. And like, here's all the things people have said politically, both sides, sports, whatever. I think people be shocked on where I stand on a lot of things. Like, I, I'm divisive because I kind of. Maybe that's not true, but I have, like, a very east coast, blunt, straightforward attitude. So when I say I don't like something, it's straightforward. But I don't think my views are overly divisive. When you actually cut them down and look at the things I believe in, I don't think they are like. So if you don't let the other side speak, you don't hear them out, and you've already made up your mind, you're not going to get very far. And to be honest, if I read a lot of the articles that have been written about me, I would be like, that guy's Hitler. So you gotta. You gotta parse into it. Like, I've had awful, awful things written about me. They're not True. But that. That's why everybody kind of has to do their own research on. On whoever you're talking to or dealing with.

[B]

I would say what surprised you most with the book out in the world in terms of the reaction you've gotten,

[A]

why it's not out yet.

[B]

So I should say we're recording this conversation to be released when it's out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But from some of the feedback you've gotten, because you've been talking to people about it.

[A]

Not a ton. So I'm very curious to hear what people think. It'll always depend. The people who know me really well know a lot of it because I'm pretty much an open book. Will the people who don't know me or as you say, be like, why'd you give them a voice? They probably won't even pick up the book. So I'd be curious to see what the. What people who had no idea who I was, what they thought. What they thought was interesting, what they thought of me, but I have no idea. It's all true. It is what it is. I can't. I've often said, like, I even think I said it in the book, which is scary. Like, people who love me will believe anything I say. People who hate me will never believe anything I say. And there's really very little I can do to change either side, which is not great.

[B]

That's also sort of a perfect encapsulation of where we are right now. It is, I think, and a great place to end this conversation. Dave Portnoy, author of the new book Cancel Me if youf Can.

[A]

Did you read it?

[B]

I did. I did indeed. I thought it was very true to your voice. I'm not at all surprised to hear that you wrote it yourself and that you didn't like the way someone else tried to take on your voice. You took it over. I think it's unfiltered in you. I think there's a lot in there we didn't get into in this conversation, so I'm curious to see what other folks think of it as well.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm really grateful to you for your time. I enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for joining us.

[A]

Happy to do it. Take care.