In sports, politics can't be pushed under the table, James Brown says

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "In Sports, Politics Can't Be Pushed Under the Table, James Brown Says"

Podcast: Settle In with PBS News
Host: Amna Nawaz
Guest: James Brown ("JB"), legendary sports broadcaster
Date: February 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Amna Nawaz sits down with James Brown—veteran broadcaster known as "JB"—for a revealing conversation covering his upbringing in D.C., the influence of his family, his dashed dreams of an NBA career, the intersection of sports and politics, and the centrality of faith in his life. JB shares personal stories and hard-won insights from decades at the intersection of sports, media, and social issues.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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Growing Up: Family, Values, and Early Disappointments

(02:09–08:09)

• Family Background:

  • Raised in Southeast Washington, D.C., oldest of five, in a home of "extremely modest means."
  • Father worked multiple jobs; mother ran the household with loving discipline.
    • JB: "She was loving. She was firm. She was no nonsense. … I called her the Sergeant, and we knew she carried a big stick." (02:09)
  • Lesson: "We may not have come from a family of means, but...we are a family of excellence and there is no excuse for lack of hard work and perseverance." (04:10)

• Dream to Be a Doctor:

  • Dream discouraged by a teacher, who told young JB, “kids like you don’t do well in science and math.” (05:37)
  • Importance of encouraging teachers—two later mentors helped him break through and reach honors classes.

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Harvard, Basketball & Navigating a Social Cauldron

(08:09–15:52)

• Transition to Harvard:

  • One of only 100 African-American freshmen in 1969—double from prior years, post-race riots context.
  • Inspired by the example of Bill Bradley blending academics and sports.

• College Basketball Experience:

  • Harvard’s team a "motley crew" from diverse backgrounds, spotlighted in national sports media.
  • Family emphasis on education over athletics: “You go to the best school you can. … Ivy League doesn’t give athletic scholarships.”
  • Freshmen in Ivy League couldn't play on varsity then; team faced social/political upheaval in early '70s.
  • Social movements ("Students for a Democratic Society, the Black Panthers, demonstrations on campus") affected campus life and sense of possibility.

• On Student Activism:

  • JB did not protest directly but supported classmates' rights: “We were certainly supportive...we understood and we grew.” (15:28)

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NBA Disappointment & Lessons in Self-Examination

(15:52–21:46)

• Atlanta Hawks & Heartbreak:
  • Drafted by the Hawks; struck up friendship with Pistol Pete Maravich.
  • Cut at the last moment: “I could not believe it… I go home, I cried, literally. And I hid in the house for two weeks.” (17:32)
  • First lesson in mature self-examination: “If you’re pointing a finger of blame at somebody, there are three pointing right back at you.” (18:45)
• Corporate Detour & Second Chance:
  • Corporate job at Xerox; boss encouraged him to try out for Celtics: “Go try out...so that 30 years from now, you’re not thinking about what should have, could have, would have.” (19:49)
  • Cut again; turned down playing overseas, choosing instead to move forward in business.
  • Lifelong mantra from experience: “I would never be ill prepared for an opportunity I wanted to pursue because of lack of preparation.” (21:46)

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Building a Broadcasting Career: Versatility & Preparation

(21:46–27:00)

• Relentless Preparation & Avoiding Pigeonholing:

  • Broadened expertise beyond basketball to football, hockey, and more to avoid being sidelined as “just the basketball announcer.”
  • Took on hosting NHL coverage despite cultural unfamiliarity: “The only thing I have in common with the sport is the color of the puck. But I promise you, I’ll be an excellent ambassador for the sport.” (25:02)

• Preparation as Core Principle:

  • “I enjoy the preparation as much as the execution itself.” (26:16)
  • JB tailors commentary to educate and engage, never condescending.

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Navigating Live Broadcasting & Cringe Moments

(27:00–31:29)

• Learning Football on Air:

  • Mentored by Bobby Mitchell.
  • First big opportunity: mistaken call for a “60-yard line”: “My producer got in my ear. He said, JB, there’s no such thing as a 60 yard line in American football.” (28:24)
  • Lesson: never lose focus on preparation and fundamentals.

• Handling Pressure:

  • “I never think about the audience size… I focus on the task at hand.” (31:09)
  • “If you think about [the scale], you’re focused on the wrong thing, and you’re prone to mistakes.” (31:39)

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Politics & Social Issues in Sports

(31:55–45:58)

• On the Sports-Politics Nexus:

  • “You cannot be ignorant to—blind to—what is a white hot conversation… you report the facts on both sides so the audience can make up their mind.” (32:47)
  • On difficult social topics (e.g., domestic violence, racism, antisemitism): “There was a time before we wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole, but when the athletes themselves are actively engaged...you have to acknowledge it.” (35:55)
  • Selectively delivers commentaries on sports/culture intersection, e.g., aftermath of Ray Rice incident, women in leadership, antisemitism.

• Memorable Commentary Instances:

  • “All of my commentaries end with the most important element to keep in mind is loving others as you do yourself, because love truly overcomes all.” (40:29)
  • On pushback for social commentary: “Turn me off then at the time that I’m giving the commentary, turn the football game back on. But that doesn’t mean that I’m supposed to stick my head in the sand and ignore something that is problematic.” (45:13)

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The Role of Faith

(45:58–49:49)

• A Later Life Transformation:
  • “It arrived later…on the heels of probably being cut by the Atlanta Hawks again.” (46:19)
  • Realized nightlife was “an empty lifestyle.”
  • Deep personal search: “If you would reveal yourself to me, then I’ll serve you. And that began a 12 year search…” (47:26)
• Family History:
  • Grandfather brought Dr. King to speak in Mississippi; family legacy steeped in civil rights struggle.
  • Faith as “a guiding light…has been and will always continue to be central.” (49:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Preparation and Opportunity:
  “I would never be ill prepared for an opportunity I wanted to pursue because of lack of preparation.” (21:46)

• On Broadcasting Hockey as a Black Man:
  “No, hockey was not big in my neighborhood and the only thing I have in common with the sport is the color of the puck. But I promise you, I’ll be an excellent ambassador for the sport.” (25:02)

• On Navigating Politics in Sports:
  “On that platform, I have a responsibility to not let things be whitewashed, pushed under the table, minimized...The fact of the matter is the intersection between sports and culture now is undeniable.” (35:55)

• On Faith and Social Responsibility:
  “It's being honest and frank. Let's confront the matters and look at ways to resolve it. You can't whitewash it and put it to the side.” (43:41)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Early Life & Values — 02:09–08:09
• Harvard, Athletics, and 1970s Activism — 08:09–15:52
• NBA Disappointment & Self-Examination — 15:52–21:46
• Broadcasting Career & Preparation — 21:46–27:00
• Live TV Mishaps & Learning — 27:00–31:29
• Politics & Social Commentary in Sports — 31:55–45:58
• Faith & Family Legacy — 45:58–49:49

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Tone & Atmosphere

James Brown was candid, earnest, and warmly authoritative, with Amna Nawaz providing both informed perspective and heartfelt admiration. The conversation was a blend of personal reminiscence, hard truths, and thoughtful consideration of how sports both reflect and shape social realities.

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Conclusion

James Brown’s journey from the streets of D.C. to the national broadcasting stage has been marked by perseverance, constant preparation, and a commitment to using his platform responsibly. His thoughtful approach to the intersection of sports, culture, and social justice—rooted in both family legacy and personal faith—offers listeners an aspirational model for leadership and public dialogue.

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Transcript

[A]

Hey, everyone, it's Amna Nawaz. For our latest episode of Settle in, we talked to the legendary sports broadcaster James Brown, better known to everyone as jb. We talked about what it was like for him growing up in the D.C. area. We talked about his own basketball dreams and what it was like to get cut from the NBA. We also talked about whether or not there's still a place for politics and protests in sports today, and also the role that his faith plays in his life. So settle in and enjoy my conversation with the one and only Jim. Welcome to Settle In.

[B]

Thanks for being here, one and only Amna Nawaz. I'm just glad you even invited me into your place of operation.

[A]

Are you kidding me?

[B]

After I saw you at the Multicultural Icon Awards and I came up to you profusely, excited to meet you, and here we are.

[A]

First of all, can I just say I'm so, so excited for this conversation. I want people to know this story you just told. We just met a few months ago. I have admired you from afar for years and years and years. You are known.

[B]

You mean from the age of two, Is that right? Go ahead.

[A]

You are known by reputation in this industry as just an absolute gem of a human being, which is not the norm in this industry, I should say. And when you came up to me at that award show where you were getting the Icon Award, you should note I was just bowled over because. Because I was shocked. You watched the show.

[B]

What did I say to you?

[A]

You said, in essence, you basically said, I watched the show. Thank you for doing what you do. I was just so bowled over. And when you meet your heroes, essentially when you meet people you've looked up to for so long and they not only meet the expectations, they exceed everything you've heard about them, I just want you to know how special that was for me. I want folks to get to know you in this conversation to hear a little bit about why you do things the way that you do, to kind of visit some moments in your storied care. But let's start with where you grew up, which was right here in the dmv. Right. The District, Maryland, Virginia area. Tell me about what you were like. What was young JB like? Were you always drawn to sports?

[B]

Not at all. Having been born in southeast Washington, D.C. near the Navy Yard, my mother and father, God bless them, raised five of us. I'm the oldest of five. Four boys in one girl, extremely modest means you just follow the lead of your parents. They were hardworking. My father was always the Breadwinner. Mom always wanted to be home, to be the excellent homemaker Amna that she was. And we followed her every lead. I teased my mom, and I hope she's okay with this. Maybe she'll let me know differently when I'm blessed to get to heaven. She was loving. She was firm. She was no nonsense. She was five. Five. I called her the Sergeant, and we knew she carried a big stick. And what she said that went. But that was. Those were the formative years, and they were loving years, too, because she was an awesome mother. While dad worked two and three jobs at the post office, that's when integration took hold. So we're probably talking around the late 50s. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When integration came in and some huge. He was working at the post office as so many folks, African Americans especially, were working at the post office. But he also drove a taxicab. Mom again was at home raising the five of us properly. And no nonsense. Then he became a prison guard at a local prison that's now defunct, Lorton Prison out in.

[A]

Yes, in Virginia.

[B]

Virginia. Yes, ma'. Am. Where you grew up in that area. So generally. But he always drove a taxicab. And during the holidays, he would work an extra job, whether it was like a caterer's assistant for serving banquets and the like, or working at Avis Rent a car at what then was just DC National Airport now Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport as a handyman to make extra money to provide for Christmas gifts for us, for that. So that was the family that I grew up in.

[A]

So hard work.

[B]

Yes, ma'.

[A]

Am. That was a strong value you grew up with.

[B]

I guess if there was a headline on that, mom said, we may not have come from a family of means, but the motto is that we are a family of excellence and there is no excuse for lack of hard work and perseverance. That will serve you well. And I never forgot that. And that's a common thread when you get to the other phases as well.

[A]

So I read that you wanted to be, or you thought you might be a doctor at one point. Is that right?

[B]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[A]

Why?

[B]

That was probably one of the more disappointing stories in my career if you were to put a headline on it. This was when I was in elementary school. The school had just gone through integration. And I remember my desire to be a doctor was simply because my attitude has always been to be helpful, caring and loving. I just wanted to help people. And I remember going to the library during a period of break, and I'm reading this book at My desk. And it was entitled so you want to be a doctor. And I'm reading that. And so I might have been like fifth grade, between fifth and sixth. And sadly, the teacher who walked by me as I was reading the book, and she looked at me and she saw the book that I was reading, she said, you know what? You might want to consider pursuing another career, because kids like you don't do well in science and math. And your body expression there was exactly mine.

[A]

You're like 11, 12 years old.

[B]

So I'm impressionable. And what teachers are saying because they have such a significant role in young people's lives and shaping them and pointing them in the right direction and always encouraging them. And we know now everybody can learn. It's a matter of whether or not the teacher is sharp enough, adaptable enough to find out what their learning style is and to maximize that. But it crushed me because by the time I go to middle school, I'm thinking I'm just not very good at math. And it was a block. I'm surprised, and I can't give you an answer as to why I didn't go back home to share that with my mother and the family.

[A]

I wonder what your mother.

[B]

So that they could help me. And I don't know why I didn't. And so I was in the lowest seventh grade class back then. And I know you're also one who's covered education and your background as well, too. This was during the track system days. So if I'm in the seventh grade, seven one would be the honor grade. Honor class. Seven. Two tears. Better word, Miss University of Pennsylvania. That went down to. Oh, no, I'm going to play with you. Goes down to seven. Seven. I was in seven. Seven. Yes. And I'm like, oh, my gosh.

[A]

That's like you telling you a story about yourself already. You're thinking, I'm not smart enough to be.

[B]

And there was a ceiling and also limiting in terms of the kind of careers I could pursue. That's as a youngster. And I never told my mother that because she would have dealt with that. She and my dad, my dad by example. And I just don't know why. But I found two teachers, my homeroom teacher and my French teacher, who encouraged me. They took me under their wings, literally and figuratively, and encouraged me. Now, while the verbal portion of the SAT was always my strength, because when I was reading stories, if I saw a word that I didn't know, I would write it down, look it up. And then I'm not sure which books I'd read that there was that kind of influence. And I would try to use it in sentences so as to internalize it. So even fast forward on the sat, I did exceedingly well on the verbal and poorly on the math. But when those teachers found out what I had been told, they worked diligently with me such that when I did go to a very good High School, DeMatha Catholic High School, I was in the honors class and wound up being the class president. Because I did work in my mother's mantra to us about perspiration, sweat and inspiration, it served me well.

[A]

So the kid who was once told he's not smart enough to be a doctor ends up going to Harvard. You go there in 1969, you're one of just 100 African American freshmen that year that doubled the size of the previous freshman class. I've been trying to put myself back in that time and place. And I'm really curious what that was like for you. What was that experience like for you as a black man at Harvard playing on the basketball team at that time?

[B]

I guess it might be an accurate description. I'm not to say a social cauldron, if you will. We're talking the year after the race riots in the country. We are now talking about many schools on the heels of that going to recruit in non traditional circles, if you will, those who they felt were academically capable of taking advantage of an Ivy League education. And while I may not have been the smartest person there, my mother's mantra to us, there's nobody who should ever outwork you. And she always stressed academic success is going to lead ultimately to career success. So while I may have been a high School All America two times, the Washington D.C. player of the Year, being recruited by over 150 colleges, her point was, you go to the best school you can. Now, my parents, I just gave you the background, very modest means. And as you well know, having gone to the University of Pennsylvania, the Ivy League does not give out athletic scholarships. So I had all these athletic scholarships on the table.

[A]

You had those as an option, right.

[B]

And Bill Bradley was my hero. Senator BILL Bradley PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE and the reason was I saw him play on TV with Princeton and they advanced deep into the NCAA tournament. And as a youngster, talk about being influenced much as negatively was a story about dissuading me from becoming a doctor. I'm watching Bill Bradley and another guy from the Northern Virginia area. His name escapes me right now. They went deep into the playoffs, if you Will the NCAA tournament. And I'm thinking, wait a minute, you can marry academics and, and athletics. That's what I want to do. If I had gone into my coach's office and saw a letter from Princeton University, that's where I would have gone. You would have gone there because of Bill Bradley. But the letter I saw on his desk was from Harvard. And I said to myself, if I can get in, that's where I want to go. I wasn't even thinking about how my parents of modest means were going to pay for that, which involve student loans, Pell grants, et cetera. But when I got that letter, I said, if I can get in, that's where I want to go. And it just so happened that Harvard brought in a freshman class of some extremely talented players from everywhere. We had one guy, lovingly, and hopefully people will take this the right way, because this is the way we were looking at it. We had a Wayne Boardman was his name, from the Pacific Northwest, tall white guy with long hair, so people called him a hippie. We had a guy from New York City, all American type basketball player, Brian Newmark, Jewish. And then we had James Brown, decidedly Black, from Washington D.C. and we had a guy, Floyd Lewis from Washington D.C. marshall Sanders from Mississippi. All of these talented players. And so when reporters came over to watch the Harvard practice, they're looking at the hippie with the long hair. They're looking at Brian Newmark. We said he had the best isro, if you will. I had the afro, as did Floyd with a curly. That picture was on the sports pages of the New York Times. My mother saw me with that wild looking hair. And I add so much yeast to the stories. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but the essence is there. My mother came up to Cambridge the next week and she said, very seriously, young man, I did not send you here to look the part of wild students because of your hair, because I had it braided up most of the time. And then come game time, I would have the cheerleaders from Radcliffe unraveling, comb it out to a neat Afro. My mother said, that's not why I sent you here. So my four foot long Afro, a high afro, wound up being a teeny weeny Afro just so that my mother would know I was serious in terms of the way I was looking.

[A]

So yeah, but you did well. That ragtag team, that Motley Crue, you guys did really well. You were spotted. You were drafted by the NBA. You were drafted by the Hawks in Atlanta. Yes, ma', AM that was the dream, right? Is that what you thought your future would look like?

[B]

I did, yeah. No matter that. I was blessed to go to a great school around some brilliant students. Dr. Cornel west was my sweet mate in college. The brilliant. I mean, he's a member of mensa. Truly a brilliant type photographic memory. Graduated summa cum laude. I mean, simply phenomenal. Those were the kind of students that I was around to aspire to become like. But that was going to be the hard work that needed to be there. Here's the disappointing part of that. You accurately ask about that freshman year and all the political activities that were going on. Students for a Democratic Society, the Black Panthers, demonstrations on campus, talking about the investments of the US and apartheid South Africa, all of those things. But we tried to stay on the streets, straight and narrow while being supportive of students freedom to do what they needed to. But those were challenging years. We did not realize and accomplish what the talent on our team was such that we could have in college. Freshmen couldn't play basketball on a varsity team at that point. So we were the second best freshman team in the country to St. John's of New York. Going into my sophomore year, we were preseason ranked number 10 or 11 in the country. But we never materialized to the level of the talent that we had. Those were very difficult times, politically and socially. An excuse because we're supposed to in life work through those things as we learn, as we get older.

[A]

It feels like you've always had that element in you, though. I know I didn't know you back then, but when you're talking about being on campus at that time with the expectations you have for yourself, that your family has for you, did you get involved with those protests? Was that something you felt like you could show up and be a part of? Or did you feel like I have to focus on this path forward?

[B]

I did not get involved, but I was certainly supportive of students rights to vent their frustration. Probably they weren't. They weren't firebombing. Firebombing. They were taking over administration buildings. We didn't take exams for the first year and a half because of all the protests. Yeah. But certainly we understood and we learned and we engaged with them. And while many of the students tried to get the basketball team involved, they understood why we couldn't.

[A]

Felt you could.

[B]

But that we were supportive. Yes. And again, those were very difficult and challenging times. But we understood and we grew and we develop relationships with student leaders to understand better what it was they were protesting. The whys and how we could meaningfully get involved on this. So that's more of the role that we played.

[A]

So you're a basketball superstar, you're drafted into the NBA. You go to training camp with the Atlanta Hawks and another disappointment hits. You're 21 years old, you're thinking, I'm going to be in the NBA. You get drafted, you get cut in training camp. That has to be devastating.

[B]

And it was, as a matter of fact, a name that the younger viewers would not know. But if they dust off the cobwebs and look back in the annals, Pete Maravich, God bless him, was my good friend on the team. He was Pistol Pete, superstar basketball player. He was the big star with the Atlanta Hawks. And we became good friends. We both were engaged in the martial arts. We went to all the martial arts movies together after practice. And he said, you know what, jb? I had no idea that they had this kind of talent in the, in the Ivy League. He says, you, you, you can make this team. He said, just, you know, keep your nose to the grindstone and everything will work out well. And he had told me that four days before I was the last person cut from the team. And I could not believe it. When I went to see the coach, I said, you're kidding me, right? And when I think about the player that he kept, that I thought, this is egotistical thinking here. I know I'm better than that guy and I can contribute. But the coach is looking at the whole scheme of things. I go home, I cried, literally. And I hid in the house for two weeks because on that team, a first round draft pick by the name of John Brown from Missouri was on the team, first round draft pick. So he's going to be there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm in the house crying. Atlanta played in la, say the night before, and my buddies in the neighborhood and in dc, they would see a Brown in the box score. And he asked me the next morning when they saw me, you know, how did you get back so quickly that only rubbed, what, salt in the wound?

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

And that's what I was thinking. But when I thought about why I didn't make the team, and this was probably the first example of mature self examination. People say, man, you ought to be pointing a finger at that guy. I said, no, you know what? If you're pointing a finger of blame at somebody, there are three pointing right back at you. Now, as a man of faith, I know there's a scripture that comes to mind that really bore itself out later in Life as I became a man of faith. Second Corinthians 13:5, which says, Examine yourself to make sure that you're walking in the faith. You can't fool yourself. You know your own heart. That's when I said that expression, all truth is parallel. That may have been a faith reference, but there is a natural reference to that. Did I work as hard and as smart to get that opportunity?

[A]

That's a tough thing to ask yourself.

[B]

Absolutely. But to be to your point, amda, that's why you're the journalist that you are. The second part of what you just said, to answer that truthfully.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I go and I'm working at Xerox now. The first year, you know, you take.

[A]

A corporate job then.

[B]

Well, yeah, because you know what in sales. But that was the closest thing to the highs of playing in sports.

[A]

Oh, there's still an adrenaline rush and sales and. Okay, all right. I've never worked in sales.

[B]

I don't know. But I love the analogies that you give. The adrenaline rush.

[A]

Is that what it was?

[B]

That's exactly right. Because you could see firsthand your input, your role that you played in bringing business to the table.

[A]

So you liked it.

[B]

Oh, my gosh, again, it was the closest thing to playing in sports. We had a big time boss who Jay Nussbaum, who played at the University of Maryland. Football, big corporate, big wig, smart, exceedingly successful. But he saw me kind of longing to still be playing basketball.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he had a heart to heart with me. He said, I know that coach Red Auerbach, the Boston Celtics. He actually was like the general manager, president. I still call him coach. He said, I know you're toying with what he gave you as an invitation to, to come and try out for the Boston Celtics. He said, and he was. I so appreciate this. He says, I want you to go and answer that question once and for all. You're on the ascendancy here at Xerox, but you need to answer that question so that 30 years from now, you're not thinking about what should have, could have, would have go try out for them. If you make it, fine. You realize your dream. If you don't be committed to coming back here and put your nose to the grindstone and. And follow the path. That is a good one for you if you're committed.

[A]

So you tried out for the Celtics.

[B]

Went to the Celtics and tried out for them. And once again, was the last player cut. Red Auerbach wanted to send me overseas to play overseas European basketball, to polish my skills and then come back to the pros. And I'm thinking, my mother and father worked so hard to send me to a good school to embark upon a meaningful career. I think I'll just stay with this and pursue that. So to this day, I don't regret it because I know I gave it two good shots. And when I am honest with myself, I could have worked smarter, not necessarily harder. Because there's an expression, you played sports, field hockey. And you know, many people will say, well, practice makes perfect. No perfect practice or close to it makes perfect. You can be practicing the wrong way, internalizing the wrong skills and not be the best suited for the opportunities coming down the road. So my mantra from that point forward was I would never be ill prepared for an opportunity I wanted to pursue because of lack of preparation.

[A]

So this makes so much sense when you, for anyone who's seen you at work commentating on basketball or on football, as you go on to do for FOX Basketball what you do for cbs, you are encyclopedic in your knowledge. You have all the facts right there. You've got all the stories. You're so smooth and handling everyone at the table. It's like you. I mean, I haven't gone back very far, but I imagine when you were getting up to speed on live television and live sports events, there had to be a learning curve, right?

[B]

My interests are well rounded. I didn't want to be pigeonholed, marginalized in just one thing. And certainly that was the way it played out in the world of sports. Because my executive producer at cbs, when I was freelancing there, basketball is how I got my foot in the door. But he said, jb, if you're serious about pursuing a career in sports full time, you need to learn how to do football, which is the number one sport, really.

[A]

I was gonna ask. So that's how you got into football. You knew this was gonna be the career, but you knew if it was gonna last, you had to broaden out.

[B]

And that broadening outfit. Did you play football ever, despite the size and girth that you're seeing right now? Ms. Amna Vaz? That was just my effort to blend in with the football players. Cause Howie Long, hall of Famer, said, JP, my friends are asking, what offensive line did big boy play on? I said, you know, at the dinner table, a little longer than I needed to be. So despite the size and girth, no, I didn't play football.

[A]

To get up to speed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

On a sport that you never played.

[B]

Absolutely. How hard was that it was hard because I didn't play the sport. And I want to come make sure I don't lose that. Because when my EP of CBS Sports was saying you need to learn football, he also said so as not to be marginalized or colonized as just the basketball announcer, even though you're excellent at it, you don't have a big name with an NBA reference on your resume. So that when the big name stars retire, those are the ones we're going to go after. So why don't you learn how to do play by play to be an excellent sideline reporter, to be an excellent field reporter and to be an excellent anchor. Those ought to be the routes that you're pursuing. What? Which means doing a wide range of sports. So I'm at Fox at this time now working at Fox NFL Sunday and they got the NHL. So the boss comes to me and he says, jb, we got the hockey package. I said, yeah, so what? He says, we want you to host the hockey show. What? Hockey? And he said, yeah, yeah. Research has shown such and such and such and such and they want it to be very popular in the lower 48. So you're the guy for it. You know, to do that I had to study hockey assiduously. And as you well know, in our business, the worst thing that you can do right out the gate is to mispronounce a name.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

People will know you did not do your homework. So I'm studying all these names, these multi syllabic names, you know, the Russian five. You know, from here I wanted to make certain I was good. Wasn't even going to try to do play by play. And hockey didn't grow up doing it. It's too fast a sport. So I said, okay, I can anchor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when they named me the anchor of the NHL on Fox, we have this big press conference and all the grizzled writers, especially from Canada, I mean, that's their, you know, that's their. Then that's their deal. Oh please. So they're asking me questions, jb, do you understand what icing is? And so I explained what icing is. I done my homework. Another one says, jb, do you know what a two line pass is? And I explain what a two line pass is. The third guy says, jb, do you know how they substitute in hockey? I said, yes, line shifts. I said, fellas, why don't we just take the veneer off the questions and be real frank here. I understand where you're going with this, so let Me just be real blunt with you. No, hockey was not big in my neighborhood and the only thing I have in common with the sport is the color of the puck. But I promise you, I'll be an excellent ambassador for the sport. And do you know all the biggest names back then? Wayne Gretzky, Mike Madonna, Brett Hull, they all were wonderful ambassadors for the sport, despite all the fighting we see on the ice. Although they didn't mess with Wayne Gretzky, they were thrilled to see that I was going to put the time and energy in being an excellent ambassador for the sport by knowing a sport and being enthusiastic. So, yes, I covered all of those sports to make sure I would be ready.

[A]

It sounds like you have come to a point where you enjoy the preparation as much as the execution itself, right?

[B]

Yes, ma'.

[A]

Am. Yeah.

[B]

So my preparation is to understand all other particulars going into the game between these two squads and what strength one or the other brings to the table. That will certainly play out strategically and tactically in terms of the execution. Understand that well enough so that I could ask you the questions and engage in conversation where you're bringing it out. So we're not coming off as being condescending. It's a conversation where the audience is learning and they're preparing for what they're going to see in that matchup, which should be the key elements of that game that they can watch it intelligently. That's my preparation.

[A]

In that live environment, though, you've got big egos around the table, right? You've got a lot of people who all want to get in there and share what they have to share and it is live and stuff happens. I mean, we know this from a news perspective, too. Stuff happens all the time. Are there moments you look back on, like cringe moments where like, oh man, I wish that never happened? Yes, yes, yes.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. It was probably in my football preparation to learn the sport. The then named Washington Redskins, their Hall of Famer Bobby Mitchell, first African American to play for the then named Redskins, was with the team as an assistant general manager. And when my boss at CBS said, we're going to give you some football games coming up this season, study and be prepared. He said, if you want to come out to the park to their training facility every morning around 8:30 and do such and such, I'll teach you the fundamentals of the game. I worked assiduously to prepare for that because I didn't play the game. So I understood the fundamentals very well. So that when my big opportunity came, it was the Tampa Bay Buccaneers hosting the Atlanta Falcons. And my boss tells me, gb, just keep it simple. Don't get fancy, call a fundamentally clean game. And he says, but now what?

[A]

Nervous for you?

[B]

Oh, no, yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. And he says, okay, you're going to have in the studio, in the announce booth, you're going to have a TV monitor. We will have the accurate time remaining in each quarter and the accurate score. Don't look up at the stadium clock because inevitably the stadium operator will have the wrong time up there. Watch the TV monitor. So I go through the first half and I'm thinking, man, football's not that difficult. Complacency can lead to that precipitous slide down the abyss. I come back in the third quarter and I'm trying to get a little comfortable and cocky. And I said, oh, okay. So there's the handoff to the running back, James Wilder. He's at the 30, he's at the 40, he's at the 45, he's at the 50, he's at the 55. He's tackled at the 60 yard line. My producer got in my ear. He said, JB, there's no such thing as a 60 yard line in American football. Then he yells at me, go to commercial. Now I'm shook up and I forgot the admonition to look at the TV monitor. I looked up and I said, folks, we're going to step aside. But the score is 1613 right now with about 8 minutes and 99 seconds left in the third period of play. Compounded the mistake. We come back from commercial. Thankfully, the guy I'm working with was a guy who played football at Harvard, Dan Jiggetts out of Chicago. And he covered for me. So he said, for those of you who thought you heard JB say, and he did. Eight minutes and 99 seconds left in the third period of play. He just wanted to see if you could make the mathematical conversion to mean there were 9 minutes and 39 seconds left in the third period of play. Thank God the game was only being televised to the TV truck under the stadium and to the local Piggly Wiggly store around the corner from the stadium. So that was my only audience, and. And my boss at CBS still gave me the opportunity to learn from that mistake. Talk about a cringe moment. That was a cringe moment. But I still, you know, those are things you have to work through and get over. But I never made that mistake again. So it's always about preparation. Heavens. I remember doing an NCAA championship basketball game. Brent Musburger, our lead announcer at the time, I had prepared my 45 second report to set the stage for the national championship game. I had my report down pat. I had it to 45 seconds, if not a little less. And I know what my content was going to be. And Brent comes on about a minute before we would come on air, said JB, I just got this last minute information. It supersedes what you have. Here's what I want you to talk about. Give me 45 seconds on this. And this is my first national championship basketball game. All of basketball America is watching this. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, how.

[A]

Do you do that? In that moment? What do you tell yourself?

[B]

I said, you know what, this is live. Just do what he said. And I've always done this. No matter the size of the audience. Super bowl audiences are humongous globally. I never think about the audience size. I never think about the number of critics out there. I focus on the task at hand.

[A]

You never think about the fact that this is the single largest TV audience for broadcast in the country, that it feels like a lot of pressure, Amna.

[B]

Because you know what? If I were to do that and it's so simple, then I know, as I know you know this, in all the venues that you've been in and have delivered excellence, if you think about that, you're focused on the wrong thing and you're prone to mistakes.

[A]

Can I ask why you think football is clearly the most popular sport in this country and there's a lot of, a lot of people watching, obviously on the biggest day on the super bowl, but it also has become at this time, sort of the venue where a lot of our other debates end up showing up. Right. And I wonder how you view this moment where people feel so strongly about the things they feel strongly about, where someone taking a knee during the anthem, someone holding up a fist in protest, all of these things. Bad Bunny being chosen as the halftime show performer, all of these things tend to spark white hot debates. I wonder how you look at that. Like, is that, does that surprise you that people are having those conversations? You think sports is still the venue we can have those conversations in?

[B]

I think with intelligent, well informed comments, properly placed in the pregame show itself or even during the course of the game you can mention, because you cannot be ignorant to blind to what is a white hot conversation. But we are admonished to obviously be like a journalist. But I've always been instructed that to do the job excellently, you Report the facts on both sides so that the audience can make up their mind. But in presenting the information at the end of the day, and I remember Ms. Jackie Jones, who is the dean of the School of Global Communication and Journalism at Morgan State University, well read, storied career with the Washington Post, she said at the end of that presentation, your report, people should not know which side of the aisle you're on. They just want to know, did you do an excellent job to present the information, covering both sides wonderfully, so that they can make up their own mind. It's a different animal. If I were engaged and I have been in settings like this where it is opinion television that you're doing to give your thoughts. I remember doing that on the 50th anniversary, I believe, of the Voting Rights Act. And Bob Schieffer, who I have tremendous respect for, the ex newsman at CBS News, he moderated that. And a gentleman had a comment that to me was rewriting what history was in trying to identify with what the priorities and the principles of the movement were at that time. And it was not for me to put that person down, but to winsomely state, let's be clear about what the priorities of the issues, of those issues at that time were.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It was A, B and C. This.

[A]

Is what the movement was about.

[B]

Yes. So as not to be combative with the person who was trying to throw something else into the equation that might have reflected the attitude of this particular time as opposed of that which was at that time. So that was my way of trying to again, put the perspective, the proper perspective on it without being combative. Does that make sense? It does.

[A]

But I wonder, do you find yourself in situations now where. Because there are a lot of opinions around some of these things. I'm thinking about Kaepernick taking a knee.

[B]

You did mention that. Yeah.

[A]

And there's. There are people who will say he hates his country and that's why he's doing it. And the fact is he was protesting to raise awareness about violence against black people in America.

[B]

And here's the backstory that many people.

[A]

I wonder, in your role, do you feel like you have to make those things clear? You have to state those facts in conversation in a place where you didn't before.

[B]

No, no. And I did. On that platform. I have a responsibility to not let things be whitewashed, pushed under the table, minimized when it doesn't reflect what, from my homework and understanding of the matter and personal engagement was not the whole story. The fact of the matter Is the intersection between sports and culture now is undeniable. There was a time before we wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, but when the athletes themselves are actively engaged in doing things like that the right way and for the common good, to bridge the gap, to try to promote understanding, at attaining, finding a place of reconciliation to move forward. Yes. And to that end, here's what I have done. Because I know that the audience first of all couldn't stomach a lot of opinions, if you will, during the course of the broadcast. People are rabid. However, what I've chosen to do, and it's very selective because I am not the moral conscience of cbs. But I thank God that there's enough respect for the manner in which I would put together a well thought out commentary to be delivered during the pregame show. And I've done that over the years maybe four or five times. Issues like. Absolutely. On our first Thursday night football game, a primetime audience, our game was being televised from Baltimore Ravens Stadium, right at the apex of the domestic violence issues that we were seeing happening involving athletes. So for the audience to be clear, it was in the context of sports. And the intersection of sports and culture are undeniable. They are intertwined and it affects and impacts athletes, coaches, et cetera. And Ray Rice, the star running back with the Baltimore Ravens at the time, the horrible video of him knocking out his then girlfriend, now wife on the elevator, it was ensconced in everybody's mind. So we came on the air to talk about it. Nora o' Donnell was our evening news anchor. So she was a part of our pregame show and she came on to deliver the news and her thoughts about that. Then the platform was turned over to us with me as the anchor of that.

[A]

And you felt like we have to talk about this.

[B]

We absolutely did. But I mentioned to my colleagues because I had two other colleagues working with, we can't soft shoe this and we're going to have a conversation and we need to be honest and transparent. I had done my homework to see what the issue was of the day. 87% of the domestic abusers are men. Although I got pushback from a number of men who have been abused by women. I said, please, I didn't pick or choose. I went with what was the major issue and the most number of folks who were the victims, 87% of the perpetrators are men who engage in domestic violence. And that is not just in America at large. It is also in the world of sports. Fellows, let's be frank about this. So my two colleagues to talk about one who, in essence was almost acknowledging that he had engaged in domestic violence as well. So I dealt with that. And I also, as a result of the survey, I'm not immune to having engaged in sports talk. You know, we call somebody a sissy in terms of what they're doing. Well, the women were making me aware. That's demeaning to women saying sissy in terms of the behavior. So my assistant at the time, Elizabeth Malia, God bless her, she was saying, even if then it was, you know, I may have made a comment about that. And she said, james, the language. So I had to go through the orientation, the reading, the education myself to make certain language matters. I've got four granddaughters, three granddaughters. And one day, if the fourth one is a boy, he'll get on me about this. Three granddaughters, you know, saying, pop, pop, you got another one that I'm not aware of. So it's important to me that I make certain that I'm modeling that behavior and encouraging them properly as well, too, because it's going to involve in a selection of whoever they decide to be.

[A]

You think about that, how the words that you speak now, the places you choose to speak out, how it's going to impact them.

[B]

Absolutely. Even a speaking engagement. I know I'm a little bit of a, you know, delicate walk, because there's some things, you know, that are very personal, that if it's personal, I will take speaking engagements about that. But I have to be mindful and make the bosses aware, because again, as a representative of a network, I've got to be careful about that. But I also have the conversation and say, this is very personal to me. Understand, I work with bosses. Let's talk about what the parameters are. I have delivered probably at least four, four commentaries, which I was starting to talk about. One was on domestic violence. And the only pushback that I got was from Rush Limbaugh, God bless him, who said that I was trying to chickify football. Well, that's the problem. That characterization is exactly what I wanted all of us, men especially, to understand. No, I'm not chickifying football. This is an issue in society at large with women. I've talked about women in the C suite in terms of. We talk about African American men getting head coaching positions, which was, you know, anemic and painful and totally unjustified, you know, to talk about that and why the opportunities were deserved there. But women in the C suite. Are you telling me that women cannot run organizations and now they do, of course. Or be in a C suite making those decisions. That's not unique to any sex, if you will. I talked about the rise of antisemitism and hate. Now, that was brought to my table because normally, as I think through things and most importantly, pray on it to make certain this is something that I feel strongly about and that I have a meaningful voice to add to the dialogue for all of us, hopefully coming together. That's the aim. And all of my commentaries end with the most important element to keep in mind is loving others as you do yourself, because love truly overcomes all. First Corinthians, chapter 13, verses 1 through 8 talks about the power of love, and that is the ultimate answer. So I close up all of my commentaries that way. Some people may think it's, you know, Pollyannish. It's true. I've lived it, I've seen it, I've witnessed it. So I'm okay with that. But the last commentary was one where some of my Jewish friends came to me and asked me, when the rise of antisemitism and hate, that's been there forever, we cannot run from those things. And I would hope that people wouldn't, because as the old expression goes, if you don't know your history, then you run the risk of repeating it again. Essentially, that thought, it's being honest and frank. Let's confront the matters and look at ways to resolve it. You can't whitewash it and put it to the side. That's not the way to deal with things. So when my. I went to ask some of my Jewish friends that I really respect neighbors.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is this something that I should even speak about? And effectively, all of them had one word responses. Please.

[A]

So they wanted you to talk about it.

[B]

Absolutely. But I thought it through. But now there was one going to be one line, because I know what's going to happen. They're going to be people who come back to me. J.B. you know what we got? We as African Americans have had to deal with this forever. I get that. But it doesn't make it right. Martin Luther King said, what Injustice anywhere.

[A]

Is injustice everywhere, everywhere.

[B]

So we can't pick and choose. We gotta be true to it. But I did use a reference about the unfair treatment, despicable treatment as it relates to blacks. And why should we see another group going through that and not have the same strong feelings? And I just said to disavow that the Holocaust never occurred is like telling me that my forefathers weren't lynched. Strong wording I knew I was going to get some pushback on that, but I wanted to make certain, as the lawyers looked it over, they understood where I was coming from because I had to have a strong example to capture the attention and to make the point. It's not right, period. And they left the line in to make certain that I didn't run the risk of a libel suit, etc.

[A]

But JB there are people who will. I've watched that and say I don't need to hear all this when I just want to tune in and watch a football game. That's right, that there's no place for.

[B]

This and they're still going to watch a football game. Turn me off then at the time that I'm giving the commentary, turn the football game back on. But that doesn't mean that I'm supposed to stick my head in the sand and ignore something that is problematic and has been for a while and continues. And I certainly want to make certain that young people understand that there is a meaningful way, a proper way that we can go about resolving this, and that is to confront it properly and together. It ought to be universal. I'm okay with that. I've learned. Because you know what I am. I know that I'm, you know, I'm one that looks for the answer that we all can rally around. Some things maybe are a little bit more delicate, that you can deal with some things. If they're wrong, then you need to acknowledge that.

[A]

I would be remiss if I didn't ask you specifically about your faith because anyone listening to this conversation will see it is core and central to who you are and how you live. And you made the decision to become an ordained minister back in the 2000s. Tell me, why has your faith always been a core part of who you are? Or did that arrive later in life?

[B]

It arrived later and again on the heels of probably being cut by the Atlanta Hawks again. Because I remember as I was trying to find my footing in life and what I was going to do, hanging around my ex athlete friends, it was a steady diet of going to happy hours to the club. And I'm the non dancing James Brown, the non singing James Brown, despite the name and competing with James Brown, the Godfather of Soul, not really competing, but having that name, I realized that that was an empty lifestyle. There was nothing substantive and meaningful beneficial to society as a whole. And I just made the determination, tooling home in my little Corvette late one night after hanging out at the club.

[A]

Ooh, a Corvette.

[B]

Yep. Please. You know And I'm thinking, you know what? This is an empty lifestyle. There's got to be something more significant.

[A]

It just hit you in a moment.

[B]

As I'm riding up the lonely road at night, coming home from yet another outing at the nightclub and just realized that there was something more substantive. Now please be clear. I have respect for whatever people's decisions are in terms of their faith for me. And I remember asking the good Lord, then I said, look, you know, I've heard the name Jesus, I've heard about God, Yahweh, but you know what, I don't really understand what this is about and know. So if you would reveal yourself to me, then I'll serve you. And that began a 12 year search of doing an assiduous amount of reading, voluminous amount of reading. Heavens. I was sharing with you how I took the trip to Israel, you know, to see firsthand what was taking place there. Clearly with my mother, God bless her. Having grown up in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, I got a chance. My grandfather, as a matter of fact, he brought Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. To Hattiesburg, Mississippi to speak to the congregation at the church just down the street from where he grew up to talk about the importance of voting. And my uncle, his son, he drove a decoy pickup truck to go pick up Dr. King while the other. A car, actually a pickup truck. But sadly the Klan was riding around, they knew he was coming to town and they were looking to take him out. And the gathering at the church was to have been at 8 o' clock that evening. It didn't take place until 11 o' clock that night because the decoy car and the other where they were trying to take a circuitous route to get back to the church. And that church remained packed full of people until he got there at 11 o' clock at night with some deacons walking around up on the roof of the church with shotguns, seeing all the pickup trucks with the shotguns riding around looking for Dr. King to try to take him out. It wasn't much long after that when he did go to Memphis, Tennessee and was assassinated. So I understand having lived through a lot of that. But my faith has been and will always continue to be central in terms of being a guiding light for me.

[A]

I am among the millions of people who are so glad to be able to watch you do what you do and to do it so well. And not just professionally, but really, truly, I can't stress this enough on a personal level, watching you live your life the way that you do and navigating this world and leading in so many different ways. It's exceptional for people to be able to see good people achieving good things and being true to who they are. And I just want you to know how much that means to me and I'm sure so many other people out there. And I'm so grateful you took all this time to sit and talk with me today. Thank you so, so much, James Brown, the one and only. Jb. Really appreciate it.

[B]

Thank you, Amna. It was my blessing.