Settle In with PBS News – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Settle In with Irin Carmon
Host: Amna Nawaz (A)
Guest: Irin Carmon (B), journalist and author
Released: December 9, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between PBS News’ Amna Nawaz and acclaimed journalist and author Irin Carmon. Centered around Carmon’s new book, Unbearable: Five Women and the Perils of Pregnancy in America, the discussion explores the diverse realities of pregnancy and reproductive healthcare in the U.S. post-Roe v. Wade, weaving together legal, historical, and deeply personal narratives to illuminate the challenges faced by women in different contexts. The conversation also touches on Carmon's reporting career, her own motherhood, the legacy of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and the broader landscape of reproductive rights.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Motivation for Unbearable – Why Tell These Stories Now?

• Breaking Down Silos: Carmon's aim was “to break down the silos” (02:20) that separate abortion, birth, and infertility in legal and medical frameworks, showing how they’re interconnected in real women’s lives.

  “Pregnancy is a profound experience that can change you… but in reality, as these five women’s stories make clear, over the course of somebody’s life, they can experience pregnancy in so many different contexts, with so many different themes, feelings, and with so many different legal treatments.” (02:20)

• Personal Experience as Catalyst: Carmon wrote the book during her pregnancy, as Dobbs overturned Roe.

  “…I was six months pregnant for the second time when Roe v. Wade was overturned with the Dobbs decision. And I was eight months pregnant when the decision was finalized… I could feel… a profound erasure from that opinion…of the seriousness of pregnancy, regardless of the circumstances.” (05:43)

2. The Incompleteness of the American Reproductive Story

• Missing Narratives: The personal and diverse challenges of pregnancy have been “unexpressed, hidden, or taken for granted.” (05:43)

  “You might think of yourself as never needing this kind of care…there are women in the book who never thought they would be in this situation, right, and find themselves seeking a kind of care that is stigmatized, illegal, or that they’ll be punished for…” (06:51)

• Privilege & Healthcare Disparities: Carmon shares how, even as a privileged, educated, white journalist, she felt disempowered during pregnancy—highlighting a system that diminishes autonomy for all, especially the less privileged.

  “I thought, like, what chance does anybody who doesn’t have all of this going for them have in this system that says that the moment you become pregnant, you have fewer constitutional rights…?” (07:43)

3. Journalist and Mother – Reporting with Skin in the Game

• Carmon discusses how her own pregnancies informed her empathy and approach when interviewing women on sensitive reproductive issues.

  “…most of the stories in this book, I would not have been able to tell them or I would not have thought to tell them if I wasn’t situated where I was in my own life.” (09:51)

• Memorable Story: Carmon describes discovering and reporting on Shelly Burns, a woman arrested six days postpartum in Alabama.

  “…for her to be experiencing that, but now she’s sleeping on the floor of a jail, bleeding out, being denied sanitary supplies, being denied access to antidepressants… being justified as being pro-life…” (11:59)
  “It was literally in the middle of the night on this chair that I was reading about this sobbing…” (11:20)

• On Postpartum:

  “You write about it like falling off a hormonal cliff, which…is exactly the way. No one’s described it that way to me before…” (11:52; A quoting B)

4. Profiles from Unbearable: Geography, Race, and Care

Alabama vs. New York City (13:21)

• Why These Places? Contrasts show the patchwork of care and legal realities. Carmon highlights Dr. Yashika Robinson (Alabama), her fight to open a birth center post-Dobbs, and the intersection of professional advocacy and lived experience.

  “She was breaking down those silos…there for her patients, no matter what kind of care that they needed in their pregnancy.” (14:52)

• Legal Barriers and Medical Gatekeeping: Dr. Robinson’s birth center faced opposition from hospital authorities fearing competition, even as options for pregnant women shrink.

• Intersectionality: Attorney Allison Moman, fighting for pregnancy as a queer woman facing repeated miscarriages, is another example. Her experience defies the notion that miscarriage care is unaffected by abortion bans.

  “Allison…had four miscarriages. Two of them she ended up going to another shuttered abortion clinic for miscarriage care…” (17:41)

Racial Inequity in Maternal Mortality (19:18)

• New York Paradox: Even in the "bluest" and wealthiest city, the disparity in Black maternal mortality is larger than in Alabama.

  “Black women were likelier to die than white women at a higher ratio here in New York City than in Alabama.” (19:18)

• Causes: Underfunded hospitals in communities of color; structural and institutional inequality.

• Personal Anecdote: Carmon almost delivered at Woodhull Hospital during peak Covid, the same institution where soon after, another woman, Shaja Semple, died following childbirth.

  “…I don't know if I would have been treated the same way as she was…But I still felt like a sense of–that could have been me. Why was it her?” (26:44)

5. The Historical Roots of Pregnancy Care & Power (31:23)

• Co-option of Childbirth by Medicine: Men in the medical establishment displaced midwives, criminalizing abortion and marginalizing women’s traditional roles.

  “Traditionally, women were the caregivers of pregnancy...But in the, around the middle of the 19th century...white, educated men...wanted to corner the market, and they saw an opportunity in birth care.” (31:23)

• Legacy of Racism: Continuing impact of past abuses, like experimentation on enslaved women by J. Marion Sims, persists in attitudes and outcomes.

• Persistent Medical Paternalism: Even with more women doctors, a culture of dismissing women's concerns, especially around pain and complications, lingers.

6. Post-Dobbs: The New Reality of Abortion Access (42:32)

• Personal Account: Carmon learned of Roe’s overturn on live TV.

  “I was on live TV...It's a good thing that I've been preparing for this my whole life.” (43:05)

• Abortion Patchwork: Rights now depend on geography; blue states pass shield laws to protect providers offering telemedicine abortions to people in banned states.

  “Aid Access...is writing 14,000 prescriptions a month...the majority of them are in banned states. And this...that's the most recent data.” (46:41)

• Legal Fights on the Horizon: Ongoing confrontation between states over interstate abortion provision and federal oversight; rise of telemedicine abortions changing post-Roe landscape.

7. The Supreme Court, RBG, and the Blame Debate (49:10)

• On Ginsburg's Legacy: Carmon acknowledges Ginsburg should have retired earlier but argues it oversimplifies to blame solely her for Roe’s fall.

  “The same aspects of her outlook...that made her who she was also made her make her worst decision. Had she listened to other people...she would not have been Ruth Bader Ginsburg...” (50:55) “...it’s too simple to tell a story that one person could have changed this outcome...for 50+ years a systematic movement was building…” (54:15)

8. Full-Circle: Reporting, Motherhood & Realness (55:01)

• Personal Connection: Amna recalls being profiled by Carmon, both moved to tears, underscoring the humanity and sensitivity Carmon brings to hard topics.

• Motherhood as Lens and Motivation:

  “It intensifies and makes more urgent the mission of my career, which is to tell these stories and which is to draw attention to what is wrong. I dedicated this book to my daughters…” (56:23) “I want a future for my daughters and for everybody else's kids where becoming pregnant does not mean the loss of your dignity, your autonomy or your life.” (57:13)

• Small Moments: Carmon describes the mix of euphoria and hardship of parenting, the importance of honesty about childbirth, and “touch grass”—the grounding nature of caring for children. (58:03)

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Siloed Reproductive Experiences:

  “They've been siloed by the law, by medicine, by history…But...over the course of somebody's life, they can experience pregnancy in so many different contexts...” (02:20, B)

• On the Postpartum Experience:

  “You write about it like falling off a hormonal cliff...” (11:52, A quoting B)

• On New York’s Maternal Mortality Gap:

  “When I learned that we had a higher rate of racial disparity in maternal mortality...in New York City, than in Alabama, I needed to understand why.” (19:18, B)

• On Medical Paternalism’s Endurance:

  “Because abortion providers always had to operate outside of the medical establishment...some of the women in my book experienced more respectful care at the hands of abortion providers...” (37:27, B)

• On Roe’s Overturn in Real Time:

  “I was on live TV...I got a text from the producer...'have you seen this?'...We were literally going live in 30 seconds.” (43:05, B)

• Statistics:

  “Aid Access...writing 14,000 prescriptions a month...majority...in banned states.” (46:41, B)
  “CDC says that 80% of maternal mortality is preventable.” (41:33, B)

• On Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s Legacy:

  “She was an extraordinary person...The same aspects of her outlook...also made her make her worst decision.” (50:44, B)

• On the Urgency of Telling These Stories:

  “I want a future for my daughters...where becoming pregnant does not mean the loss of your dignity, your autonomy or your life.” (57:13, B)

Notable Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Introduction of Irin Carmon & Unbearable | 00:00–02:20 | | Why tell these stories; personal context | 02:20–04:41 | | Impact of privilege, personal pregnancy on reporting | 05:43–11:20 | | Deep dive: Shelly's story in Alabama | 11:20–13:11 | | Dr. Robinson’s activism, breaking silos, Alabama | 13:21–19:18 | | NY vs. AL: Maternal mortality disparities | 19:18–21:37 | | Woodhull Hospital, Covid, personal anecdote | 23:09–30:10 | | Historical context: Medicine, racism, and control | 31:23–39:22 | | Medical paternalism, measurement gone backwards post-Dobbs | 39:22–42:07 | | Post-Dobbs legal/medical patchwork, telemedicine abortion | 42:07–49:10 | | RBG’s legacy and the Supreme Court | 49:10–55:01 | | Motherhood as motivation, “touch grass,” small moments | 55:01–59:23 |

Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is candid, empathetic, and personal, blending hard investigative reporting with relatability and shared vulnerability—particularly surrounding the intimate, physical, and systemic realities of pregnancy. Carmon’s storytelling is empowering but sobering; she identifies preventable injustices while advocating for change. The episode is both a call to action and a comfort for listeners seeking understanding, history, and hope around reproductive rights in America.