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Settle In with PBS News
Your guide to the Winter Olympics
00:52:40
The Olympics are here. Sports journalist Christine Brennan talks with Amna Nawaz about covering 22 consecutive Olympic Games, big moments in Olympic history and the sports and athletes to watch this year.
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- [00:01]
A
Hey, everyone, it's Amna Nawaz. For our latest episode of Settle In. We're getting you ready for the next Winter Olympics. We talked to legendary sports journalist Christine Brennan right before she heads out the door to go to Italy to cover those Games. She's been covering the Olympics for almost four decades now and we talked about a lot. She talked about the prospects for gold for Team USA and figure skating and ice hockey. We talked about a new sport you're going to want to know about called C Ski mountaineering or Ski mo. So get ready for that. She also shared some memories from iconic moments she remembers from all the games she's covered in the past and also how global politics could find their way into these global games. So settle in and have a listen to my conversation with Christine Brennan. Christine Brennan, welcome to Settle In.
- [00:50]
B
Thanks for being here, Amna. It is great to be with you. Thank you.
- [00:54]
A
We have so much, so much to talk about. I know as we sit here, you're getting ready to head out to Italy to go cover another Olympic Winter Games. There's a lot to talk about, but I kind of want to start with just you right now in this moment, because I know you've done this before, you're a veteran at covering these Games, but how are you feeling going into these Games? Something feel different or more exciting? What's going on with you right now?
- [01:16]
B
You know, I am so fortunate. I, as a girl growing up in the suburbs of Toledo, Ohio, watching the Olympics on tv, I would have hoped to go to one as a fan, you know, like have the family buy tickets for some future Olympics, you know, and go. I watched every second. I cried kind of when they ended, you know, it's like, oh, those two weeks were amazing. You know, they're over. And here I am gearing up for my 22nd consecutive Olympic Games. 22nd winter and summer started in LA in 84. I started in kindergarten and this will be my 11th consecutive winter Olympics. I've done 11 consecutive summer.
- [01:55]
A
That's amazing.
- [01:56]
B
And yeah, and so for me, I'm a journalist and I cover the issues and I write negatively about a lot of things at the Olympics, obviously, positively, of course, about things, 100% journalism. I'm not a fan, I'm not cheering. But what would 17 year old me have thought of this? And that never leaves my mind, how appreciative I am of the opportunity, how fortunate I am. And it wants me to, you know, makes me want to do this, obviously do the job properly, tell people things that maybe they're not seeing or hearing, write about important issues that are out there, clearly international issues, the way the Americans will be received overseas. Sexual abuse in figure skating. I've written about that, talked about that for the last 10 years. There are issues there that will potentially pop up with some of the skaters. So even though I grew up as a big fan of the Olympics, I still, I think it's one of those things where you can be kind of in awe at the opening ceremonies while I'm writing a column for USA Today that is criticizing something the International Olympic Committee is doing at that exact moment. And that I don't know if that makes sense to people, but that's what a journalist does. And I am so proud to be able to do it. And I never, ever lose sight of how lucky I am.
- [03:10]
A
It's so cool that you haven't lost the excitement behind it, because I can imagine if you do things 5, 6, 7, 11 times, 22 times, at some point it starts to feel like, here we go again. But there's none of that right now for you.
- [03:22]
B
No, no, because I am true to that girl growing up in Toledo. And you know, for example, I also am doing a podcast. I mean, frankly, who isn't, right? You know, I think my neighbor down the street's got one. But we're not going to be competitive with yours. But at Milan Magic, Brian Boitano and I are co hosting it for USA Today.
- [03:44]
A
Oh, that's so cool.
- [03:45]
B
And so I covered Brian. My First Olympics was 88. I covered the battle of the Bryants. Yes, we got to know each other then. I certainly known him over the years. But again, the thought that I, that Brian and I are sitting at microphones like you and I are. And of course, I'm the journalist, he's the Olympic gold medalist, and we have a different perspective on things.
- [04:02]
A
So that's a podcast people can tune into while you're there covering the Olympics, you and Brian Boitano.
- [04:07]
B
Milan Magic, as they say, Amna, wherever you find your podcast, that's a good name. Milan Magic.
- [04:13]
A
Okay, this is not the most important question I'm going to ask you, but I am deeply curious. As someone who travels quite a bit, you're going to a very cold place for two weeks. Three weeks total.
- [04:22]
B
Yeah, about three. Yeah.
- [04:24]
A
How do you pack? How do you pack for something like that? Seriously, Is it layers? Is it one big coat? Like, what's the secret? You've got to have it down by now.
- [04:31]
B
Well, and especially in the Winter Olympics, you know, the Summer Olympics Is, you know, you have far less clothes. Right. Because you're wearing, you know. No, I'm dying to know clothes and whatever. So I'm trying to keep it to two suitcases, two pack. I mean, two checked bags. Okay. I definitely put a couple items in the carry on bag in case the suitcase. Right. For sure. Boots are tough because, you know, you need a couple, you know, sets of.
- [04:59]
A
Boots, warm winter boots.
- [05:00]
B
Right. And of course, my little tip, and I would say this for all women, and guys already have this. Guys have neckties. Women. I'm wearing one right now. For those who are. Who are watching versus listening.
- [05:12]
A
Signature scarf.
- [05:13]
B
And I have about 10 of these. And they're actually works of art. Don't laugh. Works of art from the Toledo Museum of Art, my hometown, of course.
- [05:23]
A
I love that.
- [05:24]
B
One of the great museums in the country. And I will tell you this. The last Olympics, which of course was Beijing, which of course was the Camilla Valieva controversy and doping story. We're talking about all that. That I was able to break that story. So I was on cnn. I literally was on air. Basically slept for an hour or two. And you've done this before at events where you're just going, going. And I just switched up the scarf, and otherwise I had the exact same look. Anyone?
- [05:49]
A
I love that. That's such a good tip and a little nod to Toledo everywhere you go.
- [05:53]
B
Right. Thank you.
- [05:54]
A
Always in your heart.
- [05:55]
B
Yes.
- [05:56]
A
Okay, let's talk about the Games. They're heading back to Europe, so you're heading to Italy. Just kind of set the scene for us, for people who haven't been getting up to speed just yet. What are we in store for? How many places are they going to see across Italy? What are we talking about in the scale and the scope of these Games?
- [06:11]
B
Well, I think first of all, you said the most important words. We're heading back to Europe. And I think for so many people, the Winter Olympics in Europe are synonymous. The Alps, you know, Peggy Fleming, her gold medal in 1968 in Grenoble in the Alps live and in color. A lot of people tuned their first color TV sets. They got the color right to Peggy's chartreuse dress. You know, I mean, that's kind of what you think of with an Olympic Games. And it was Beijing four years ago. Pyeongchang in South Korea eight years ago. And Sochi back in 2014, 12 years ago. And of course, that's Russia, so it's close. But here, this is right there in the Dolomites in the Alps. And what is, what is, well, unique about this is it's Milan and it is Cortina and there's a couple other cities in the mountains all going to be hosting the Olympics. Cortina and Milan are about 250 miles apart, but that's not a normal like four or five hour drive because you're going through the mountains. So there's actually like satellite locations for these Olympics. We've never seen anything like this. Where there is the central city is Milan, but so many of the athletes will never make it to Milan. They're going to be opening ceremonies in different locations. Main one in Milan, because the fact is that you've got everything so spread out first time ever, so all the.
- [07:35]
A
Athletes won't necessarily be in one place at the same time.
- [07:37]
B
Well, exactly.
- [07:38]
A
Is that the first time they've done the competition?
- [07:39]
B
The first time that certainly that I've covered. And frankly then the answer would be yes, because everything was so much smaller, you know, back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, et cetera. In 1956, Cortina actually hosted the Olympics to show you how small they were. Tenley Albright was the first American woman to win Olympic gold medal in figure skating. Dr. Tenley Albright. It was small enough to be contained in that mountain town, Cortina. Now Cortina is just one of several of the locations to show again the size and what we've seen over the last years. And people might remember Salt Lake City in 2002, Calgary in 1988. These are big cities now, obviously Beijing four years ago hosting the Winter Olympics. That's new. It's not the tiny little town anymore. And that's because they want to go big, obviously sponsors, you know, it's all a big huge production for these basically three weeks, two and a half weeks. But yeah, that's what's different. So the athletes, for example, USA House is usually the gathering spot for the athletes. Well, there's really no USA House this time. There'll be Ice House, which will have, for example, Milan has the hockey, men's and women's hockey. It has speed skating and it has figure skating time.
- [08:51]
A
It's a totally different experience for the athletes and for the spectators watching on.
- [08:54]
B
Tv, you won't even know the difference because it's just a TV show. But for those on the ground, there's going to be a lot. Well, you're in one place or the other, you're really not moving around.
- [09:02]
A
I mean, it is mind boggling to think of the scale of what the Olympics are today. So 3,000 athletes from more than 90 countries and territories represented. But it's important to point out none of this happens in a vacuum. Right. These are all athletes coming from their respective countries, and there's a lot happening in the world today. So there's a couple countries we should note that aren't going to be there, that aren't represented. Right. There's still bans in place. Tell us about that.
- [09:27]
B
Talking about Russia in particular, and you know, this is well deserved. My flippant side would say this is the lifetime achievement award for the Russians in the sense of their cheating over the years, that they should have been kicked out earlier. And the latest cheating, I mean, Russians got the Russian. All the figure skating judges were. The Soviets were kicked out in 1978 for a year just because, again, of the lifetime of cheating. And you know, that's. And it sounds like, hey, here's an American who's being negative about the Russians. Well, I am, because these are the facts. This is the. There's a document pattern there. So in 2014, people might remember the New York Times in particular breaking a lot of this news where there was the systematic and systemic doping led by Putin's government to get. There was a hole in the wall, kind of right out of a James Bond movie, where the bad urine, the tainted urine, the doped up urine from the drug test was sent through a little hole in the wall and clean urine came back. And that's how the Russians cheated at their home Olympics in Sochi in 2014. Well, they got caught, but then it's been piecemeal punishment ever since. This time, Russia is completely banned, finally. And it's, of course, because of the invasion, their invasion of Ukraine.
- [10:47]
A
Right.
- [10:48]
B
So that's where we are on this.
- [10:50]
A
And that was the IOC basically saying, this is the line for us.
- [10:53]
B
Right, exactly.
- [10:54]
A
So can their athletes still compete or.
- [10:57]
B
No, these athletes, there will be several athletes. For example, there'll be a female figure skater, Adalia Pedrosian, who actually is a medal favorite. There will be a male figure skater also. Could be a mix. There could be. There will be other. A few other individual athletes, no teams. So no Russian men's hockey, no Alex Ovechkin, no Russian women's hockey. It goes even to pairs and ice dance skating, just the two.
- [11:22]
A
No pairs, no teams, no flags, no.
- [11:25]
B
No anthem, no nothing. But there will be a couple Russian athletes, but they will not be called Russian. And yet they still could be as good as the Russians that we've known from the past.
- [11:33]
A
I mean, we are at this Moment of enormous global uncertainty. Right. There's all these shifts in terms of alliances and just America's place in the world. And I wonder how, as you're preparing for. Because I know you prepare a ton going into these Games. Do you anticipate some of that's going to show up at the Games? I mean, do. Will there be protests? Will people try to use this platform to make a statement? What are you. What are you kind of getting ready for?
- [12:00]
B
You know, the thing you wonder right off the bat. And I'm sure everyone listening or watching would maybe go, yeah, this is the one that comes to mind. Will the Americans be booed?
- [12:10]
A
Really?
- [12:11]
B
And that's a question. And I asked that as a question with a question mark at the end. I don't know. I have never seen in all the opening ceremonies I've covered, which is all of them going back to 84 in LA. I don't recall hearing boos or whistles, as we know. Sometimes it's whistling, which is booing, depending on the country you're in. You know, there certainly can be rustling and uncertainty. Summer Olympics has, you know, double the countries or more than the winner. And of course, you have more tension with all the Summer Olympic nations that. That show up. I mean, the Winter Olympics can be a lot of, you know, Norwegians and Scandinavians and Northern Europeans named Sven with snowboards, you know, and I'm not saying you don't have.
- [12:56]
A
There's been tensions between the US and NATO allies. Right. Look at Dano.
- [13:01]
B
Exactly. Now, but in the past, you know, you've had. Yes, of course, not by any means minimizing it. A huge, huge issue and huge story for us where, again, we're sports. You know, I'm a journalist who happens to cover sports, but that means I dive into international issues, of course, all the time.
- [13:15]
A
Yeah.
- [13:16]
B
So the. Do I think I will answer my own question. Do I think that the Americans will be booed as they come into the opening ceremony? My guess is probably not. Number one, a lot of US tourists go to these events, come overseas, other countries that might be friendly to the US also. Although, again, that certainly has been an issue in the last year with the Trump administration. But I also think in general, people, even if they're angry about things, don't necessarily force that or direct that to the athletes who are coming in. Right.
- [13:52]
A
And it's fascinating, you feel the question has to be posed.
- [13:55]
B
Oh, without a doubt. How's it going to happen and what's going to happen? And that's a question I Have never. I'm trying to think, even. I mean, first of all, you know, Seoul in 1988, lots of, you know, of course you still have the Soviet Union back then, East Germany, you know, so that you'd have tensions. I'm not saying you didn't. But then it's almost again. They hope for this. This little island oasis of peace for, you know, again, almost three weeks. Which, of course was shattered completely in 1972, September 5th of 1972, the 11 Israeli athletes and coaches who were murdered in the village and then at the airport at the Munich games by the Black September terrorists. I was a little girl watching at home in suburbs of Toledo. And I'll never forget it as long as I live. And so. So, yes, the notion that politics doesn't enter the Olympics and there might be people going, oh, wait a bit, you know, they don't have politics. Are you kidding? I mean, this is. This is a. It's a mirror of our society. And so that's why I say, will there be booing? Will there be issues? You asked about protests. You know, it's Italy. It's a free society. There will be a lot of people there, and I'm glad they will be there. You know, we were just in Beijing. It was Covid. Couldn't do anything. Obviously totally messed up, but also would never have allowed that. Beijing wouldn't have. So thank goodness there can be protests, and we will see. Athletes will certainly be asked about the president. They will certainly be asked about his policies. Of course they will. We would be shirking our duties as journalists to not ask. Now, do you ask the question as the person is celebrating their Olympic gold medal? No, that's not the first question, and that's probably not the second or the third. But in the press conference, especially if we've seen tweets or posts from the White House about something, and I've got to believe we will. So this could be a developing story, and I promise you I will be on it.
- [15:52]
A
I know you will. I know you will. Okay, let's talk about some of the big storylines to watch, because there's so many fascinating personalities and so many potentially exciting moments. Let's start with women skiing and Mikayla Shiffrin. Because if you are someone like me who loves a redemption story or loves a comeback, this could be the one, right?
- [16:14]
B
Absolutely.
- [16:14]
A
Tell us about Michaela.
- [16:15]
B
Michaela Shiffrin is only 30 years old, and she's lived a lifetime or two or three. You know, early success, Sochi and pyeongchang. And then absolutely a devastating Olympics in 2022.
- [16:29]
A
Broke my heart to watch.
- [16:31]
B
And you and probably millions of people.
- [16:33]
A
Watching, shattered for her.
- [16:34]
B
Yeah, no, and just had a terrible run of bad luck. Didn't finish everything that she had done so beautifully over the time she'd been in the public eye, it all fell apart. You know, everything that could go wrong did go wrong. But you know, why people love her so much and why she is such a terrific role model and good person is the way she handled it. Answered every question, showed up at interviews, didn't run away, didn't hide. Absolute pro. Talked about her mental health, talked about how hard this was. I mean, how many people, Amna, did she help? How many 16 year old girls out there who are going through something, did they look at her and go, wow, you know, this is a woman who's won so much. Greatest of all time, greatest skier of all time. And now she's dealing with this and she's handling it. And here she comes, she is back only 30, as I said, so there's still plenty of time skiing. Great. She's going to focus more on her bread and butter, which are the slalom, giant slalom, you know, the things with the gates again, for those who don't watch this or pay attention, where she's just back and forth around those gates.
- [17:42]
A
You're talking at my level now. Thing with the gates. Thing with the gates.
- [17:45]
B
And you know what, as a journalist, I mean, I know a fair amount about this. There's a lot I don't know either, which never bothers me because I know that so many readers and viewers don't necessarily know this. Once every four years, these people drop into our lives. They never overstay their welcome. They're not like all these other athletes. You're like, oh my gosh, I'm done with that, or you love them or whatever, you know, in pro sports. And they're gone and often they never come back. So this is their moment. Which makes it all the more interesting and all the more emotional and dramatic. Obviously, Michaela Schifrin is back and she is the gold medal favorite in a couple events for sure. But everyone's going to be holding their breath because unlike the Summer Olympics, where you know someone is swimming or running, right? Yes, things can happen. There are upsets. Katie Ledecky's in the pool. She could win or lose, but you're not gonna like necessarily slip or you're not. You don't have ice, you don't have snow.
- [18:37]
A
So all things go horribly wrong. So Quickly. In the Winter Games.
- [18:40]
B
Exactly. Right, exactly. And that's why you're even on edge more. And it, you know, again, as the quote, unquote, hard bitten journalist that I am. Oh, I have. I. When I. If I'm watching, which I wouldn't, I won't be in the mountains because I'll be, as I mentioned earlier, as we're talking about the logistics, but I'll watch and I guarantee you my heart rate will go up and I barely know her, you know, and because you just. We're human beings. Yeah, but that's what the Winter Olympics are. This one moment. And again, it's four years. You don't have a game next week, you don't lose the super bowl, and you can try again in 52 weeks.
- [19:11]
A
This is it. You've been working for this moment. Okay, let's talk about figure skating, because I know that's where you're gonna be focusing a lot of your reporting and work as well. And I feel like that is, that's where a lot of core memories for viewers are made. And certainly for me growing up watching, I still have memories of these great American skaters like Michelle Kwan and Kristi Yamaguchi and Tara Lipinski. How are the Americans doing? Can they medal this year?
- [19:37]
B
Yes, they can. They should. I think they will. I actually think this could be the greatest US Figure skating team ever assembled.
- [19:45]
A
Really.
- [19:45]
B
And that's, that's saying a lot because you mentioned some of the great names of all time, obviously, as I mentioned Brian Boitano and my partner now on this podcast. You know, there's a lot of great, great moments in US Figure skating history. The reason I say this is going all the way back in the record books. There have only been two Olympics where the US has won two gold medals. At that Olympics, 1956, Cortina, and then 1960 in Squaw Valley, and that was men's and women's. Now, at that time, There were only three events. Now there are five, and the two additional ones are ice dance. And then as of 2014, the team competition. That's the one that got where Camila Valliere was doping test got involved and the US finally got the gold two and a half years later. So there's more events now. But if you think that actually shocked me, Amna, as I was going through the record book, just to double check.
- [20:41]
A
This, that was the last time.
- [20:42]
B
Yeah, 1960 is the last time two Americans in figure skating won gold, men and women. So like Peggy Fleming in 68, she was the only gold. Dorothy Hamill in 1976. The only gold. You know, there have been other medals. Silver, bronze occasionally, but not gold medals. This U.S. team. Ilya Malinin, who's 21, from the D.C. suburbs, born and raised in D.C. the son of two time Olympians, both his mom. I covered his mom.
- [21:09]
A
You covered his mom?
- [21:10]
B
Yeah. Tatiana Melanina. He's taken the masculine form of his mom name. It's easier to pronounce. Melanin. So Ilia, his mom, actually competed against Tara Lipinski and Michelle kwan. She was eighth when they were first and second in Nagano in 1998. And again she was in the 2002 Games and then in Salt Lake and then with Drew.
- [21:31]
A
So he's coming in with a good pedigree here.
- [21:33]
B
Exactly. Born and raised in the United States, he is by far the prohibited Olympic gold medal favorite in the men's event.
- [21:39]
A
Okay.
- [21:39]
B
I mean, he would have to fall. Something would have to go wrong. Obviously, you know, the ice is slippery. And also just a terrific young man. Gets it. The bravado. He calls himself the quad God.
- [21:54]
A
He calls himself the quad God.
- [21:56]
B
Quad God. And you know what? It ain't bragging if you can back it up, as they say. Well, guess what? He landed seven quadruple jumps in his long program. Four minutes in the Grand Prix final in December. And that is the most quadruple jumps ever by a human being in the history of figure skating. Hello, Qui. God. Ok, so that's one. Then the team competition, which kicks off the Olympics three nights. Ilia will be one of the stars of that. So that's where each country puts a man and a woman and an ice dance and pairs team out. Short program, long program, eight performances by each country. The US Won the gold last time because of the Russian doping. The US Is the favorite to win again. So that now would be the two gold medals again. Anything's possible. And then I stand. Madison Chalk and Evan Bates. This is their fourth Olympic Games together. They are a couple off the ice as well. They're married.
- [22:53]
A
Okay.
- [22:54]
B
And they are seven time national champions, but have never won an Olympic medal. They won the team gold. They were part of that. But never individual ice dance. It's going to be quite a competition with a couple other teams, but they certainly could win the gold. So now that would be potentially three.
- [23:11]
A
And they're a couple on and off the ice.
- [23:13]
B
Exactly. Chalk and base.
- [23:14]
A
I am always fascinated by that. Well, my husband and I can't even load the dishwasher together without like getting in. If I had. This is. That's intense.
- [23:21]
B
You know, I'll tell them you said that, and I'll get a comment for you, and I will text it to you.
- [23:26]
A
I'll take their tips.
- [23:27]
B
Yes. You know what I mean? There's moments. They all have moments. I watch practices and they talk about they're terrific people, but. So they're leaders, they're spokespeople. They've gone through it all. They do have a team goal, but they've never gotten that individual medal. I do believe that for sure, they will get an individual gold, silver, or bronze. The question is, will it be gold? But, yeah, they just were friends and skating partners, and of course, you got to sell it in ice dance. You look. It's got to be. It's romantic, and it's all this incredible music and all of that. Far away. Takes you all these. I think part of figure skating is the art. It's the drama. It's like the Broadway show tunes in some ways. Right. Even if they're not skating specifically to that. So they did that for a while, and then they realized, hey, by the way, you know, we like each other. And they fell in love and got married a year better than the opposite, I think. Right? Exactly. But I'll ask how they do with the dishwasher. And then the women. We haven't even talked about the women, which has always been, as you mentioned earlier, you know, when you think of Olympic figure skating, you're thinking of Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill, Christy Yamaguchi, you know, Katerina Witt for East Germany, except, you know, Tara Lipinski, Michelle Kwan, et cetera. Sarah Hughes. We don't want to forget her. From the last American woman to win a gold medal in 2002.
- [24:46]
A
2002 was the first.
- [24:47]
B
Was the last Olympic gold medal in figure skating, you know, which is like Miss America on Ice, because basically, you don't have to work a day in your life if you're. At least in the old days. Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Helm. No, they worked. I mean, they did events and they. They did promotions and they had sponsorships. But it is a pretty cool thing. You know, to this day, people know their names. Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill in particular.
- [25:06]
A
So what name should we know this year?
- [25:08]
B
There's actually. I'm gonna give you three names because all three US Women are actually terrific in their own way.
- [25:13]
A
Okay.
- [25:15]
B
The least likely to win the gold or win a medal, but that doesn't mean she won't is Isabeau Levito.
- [25:21]
A
Okay.
- [25:21]
B
Isabeau is 18 from New Jersey, and everybody turn on your TV because you are watching a young woman who looks like the ballerina on top of the jewelry box.
- [25:36]
A
Really?
- [25:36]
B
So if you want that old school beautiful look, that kind of that Audrey Hepburn look, Isabelle Levito has got the.
- [25:43]
A
Isabelle's your girl.
- [25:44]
B
Now, meanwhile, with all the industrial strength triple jumps.
- [25:47]
A
Correct.
- [25:47]
B
Yeah. I mean, amazing to be able, you know, hockey players leave the ice after a minute and a half, you know, out of breath. And you got, you know, 2 minutes, 40 seconds in the short program and 4 minutes in the long program all by yourself. Yeah. And she's a one time national champ, so she's already done that at 18. At 18. So she was third at the National. She made the Olympic team, second at the Nationals. But the reigning world champion is Alyssa liu, and she's 20. And get this, she won the national championship. First one at age 13. Youngest US woman to ever win a national title. Alyssa Liu won another national championship at 14. She was so little that her competitors, second and third place, had to help her up to get to the top of the medal stand.
- [26:29]
A
That's adorable.
- [26:30]
B
So national champ at 13, national champ at 14, retires at 16, unretires two years later at 18, wins the world title at 19, and now makes her second Olympic team at 20.
- [26:44]
A
I love this story already.
- [26:46]
B
And she has come back, as many do, although most don't retire, you know, as teenagers. She has come back with a totally different perspective. She didn't want to, you know, she hated the life of a young kid, regimented as she was. She wanted to go skiing and take vacations and do stuff that she couldn't do.
- [27:03]
A
Be 16.
- [27:04]
B
Yeah. And so she did. And she did that for two years, and she loved it. And she goes, now I want to come back to skating.
- [27:09]
A
That's amazing.
- [27:09]
B
And she's lovely. And my favorite story at the national championships, which were in St. Louis a few weeks ago, happened right in front of me. I actually videotaped it and did a reel. And all of that, you know, all that good stuff that the kids are doing, I did it, too.
- [27:24]
A
Christine, you're right there with the kids. I am.
- [27:26]
B
I think I'm a kid. I just 100%. Right. And you know, and you're having fun. You love it, right? So I'm a kid. But so she skated and she was in first place at the nationals. As I said, she's already won two. She's back. She's defending, you know, reigning world champ. She's now in first place at the nationals. There's one Skater to go, Amber Glenn. We're about to get to her, talking about her for the Olympics. So Amber Glenn at that point, two time national champ, has now come onto the ice. She's the one person who can beat Alyssa Liu. Most skaters go backstage, go through the curtains, hide, go to the bathroom, put on their headphones. They don't want to know what's going on. Especially if it's the person who can then beat you.
- [28:10]
A
Yeah.
- [28:10]
B
Alyssa Liu. Unbelievable. She doesn't leave the ice. She crouches down right in front of the press table so I can see her. And she's watching Amber Glenn and cheering her on, literally clapping for her as she's also blowing her nose because of course she's just finished four minutes of skating and she needs to, you know, she's, you know, it's cold. Anyway, there's Alyssa Lou cheering for the only person who can beat her. And in fact, Amber Glenn does end up beating her. I mean, you know, I am, I stay in my lane. I'm in sports and obviously international sports and whatever comes with that. But in our world right now and in our country where everyone is at each other's throats.
- [28:55]
A
Yes.
- [28:56]
B
What a, what a wonderful statement from this one. 20 year old little, you know, she's not tall. Little, little skater. Obviously one of the greatest of all time already world champ about your competitive, your competition and about cheering for one another and being on each other's side. Isn't that a great story?
- [29:14]
A
Yeah.
- [29:15]
B
So, of course.
- [29:17]
A
So now I'm cheering for her too.
- [29:18]
B
Now you just get a long list going here. But that's why I said this. Olympics are going to be really something else. I'm very excited I mentioned Amber Glenn. So then Amber Glenn wins that national title. It's her third consecutive women's national title. The last person to do that was Michelle Kwan. So Amber Glenn is in pretty rarefied air anyway at this point. Amber is 26. So we've got a 20 year old and an 18 year old and a 26 year old.
- [29:46]
A
26, that's old for the year.
- [29:48]
B
That is old. That's an age when most people have long since retired from women's figure skating. Injuries, heartache, mistakes, getting sick. I mean, she has been on the door of Olympics before and something has happened and she hasn't had a chance, hasn't made it and she has persevered. She is an absolutely eloquent, as you would expect expect from someone who's kind of lived life and had to deal with negative things and tough breaks and the moment. And appreciative so much of the moment, as all three of them were hugging each other. Which explains why Alyssa Liu is out there cheering for her. Because they know how hard it has been for Amber, as she's continued. Of course. I mean, a great athlete. She's got the triple axel. That is the three and a half Revolution jump, the toughest of the triples. And she is right now the only American doing it. Alyssa Liu may or may not, but it's a beautiful triple X. So she's got the technical content, which is why she's the three time defending national champ. She also is the first woman in figure skating of any prominence who has come out as lgbtq. She did that a few years ago. And, you know, that has been received beautifully. I mean, the rainbow flags that she sees that she carries when she wins something, you know, wins a competition, then someone hands it to her in the stands and she's out there with the ice. And the US Flag, of course, too. So that's Amber, Glenn. So that's why I said each could win a medal. They could go 1, 2, 3. Very unlikely. Japanese are excellent. Japan could win 2 of the 3 gold, 3 of the 2 of the 3 medals. Again, Petrosian, the Russian, who will be officially not Russian. The negative for her is that she hasn't had international competition because Russia has been banned. So while she is excellent and is expected to do very well, she's also coming in without all of the experience.
- [31:43]
A
The benefit of that other that all.
- [31:44]
B
The Americans have and that the Japanese have. But Glenn liu and Lovito, that is your girls. Certainly the strongest US women figure skating team since 2002, since Sarah Hughes, Michelle Kwan and Sacha Cohen.
- [32:03]
A
Here we go, ladies. Here we go. I need to ask you about ice hockey, which I know nothing about. My ice hockey knowledge is limited to that HBO Max show he did, Rivalry, which means nothing in this context, although.
- [32:16]
B
I see people tweeting and posting about that. I think those guys are going to be at the Olympics.
- [32:21]
A
Oh, they should absolutely be there. That would be the smartest thing for the Olympics to do, right? Have you seen the series?
- [32:26]
B
I watched a few minutes. I'm well aware of what's going on.
- [32:28]
A
We'll do a whole other show about that.
- [32:30]
B
Okay, sounds good. I'll get back to you on that.
- [32:32]
A
But I did read in my research that after 12 years, the NHL is allowing players to compete again. I guess they didn't back from 2014 on because they didn't want to have to put their Season on hiatus. But that's a big deal for the pros to be back competing for Team usa. So what are we expecting there?
- [32:51]
B
Yeah, it is. And you know, that's of course, men's hockey. And it's, you know, when you say men's hockey, you think of 1980 and of course, the US beating the Soviets. And that was a group of college, either college hockey players or recent graduates, college coming together for one of the greatest, I think the greatest upset in sports history.
- [33:12]
A
It's the Miracle on Ice, Right, Exactly. And one of the best sports movies of all time.
- [33:17]
B
And watching it, and that's the end.
- [33:18]
A
Of my ice hockey novel.
- [33:19]
B
Well, and at Northwestern, we ran through the streets. We went down to Chicago and ran through the streets till four in the morning that night.
- [33:25]
A
Did you really?
- [33:26]
B
My boyfriend. And all of us, like 20 of us running through the streets when the US beat the Soviets. That's how big a deal it was for college kids. So, yeah, huge. So what has happened is the NHL has realized the magnitude of the platform and the stage that the Olympics are and a way to elevate the sport and get interest from people other than just hockey, the normal NHL season ticket holders and fans and et cetera. So that was what was going on. Nagano in 98 is when it started. And they had the pros for several Olympics and then they decided not to do that because they do to the point you were just making, you do stop the season. So, you know, that's a big thing.
- [34:08]
A
It's a big deal.
- [34:08]
B
Yeah. I mean, okay, everyone, you know, hold everything in place and we'll see you in March. You know that that's a very rare thing. It's why baseball players never went pro, baseball players never went to the Summer Olympics and why the International Olympic Committee said, we're sick of having, you know, we want the best players and we're not getting the best players. And you had the steroids issue too, with baseball too. So all of that point being, hockey has embraced that. And so they are back. Russia is not. So no Russia, of course, because no Russian teams are allowed. But us, Canada, you know, that's the big rivalry. It's certainly one of them. And I remember in Vancouver in 2010, I was getting ready to go to the closing ceremony. So I was in my hotel room and it was U.S. and Canada for the gold medal. And I didn't have to watch the game. I could just hear what was going on in the streets in adventure, just from outside. So if I heard a roar, I knew the Canadians had scored. If I heard a groan, I knew the US had scored. Canada did win that gold. And, you know, it's really, you know, it's this Canadian national sport, right? Hockey, men and women, and. But it's good. And again, these are names people know, and that's what the TV broadcasters rely on. And the European nations as well, You've got famous pro athletes who come and play for their country, and they do. It is pretty cool to see they're multimillionaires, and yet they're playing for their flag and their nation, and I do love that. And then, of course, the women's side.
- [35:34]
A
Well, yes, this is a big deal now, too, right? Because the last time the women competed, there wasn't a professional league here in the U.S. now we've had one here for the last couple of years. So there's. There's kind of like a ecosystem that they've been competing in to feed to the Olympic team. Does that change the game at all for them?
- [35:51]
B
You know, I think the quality gets better every day, especially in women's sports. And we've seen it in basketball, We've seen it in all these sports where once you throw money into it, when you have coaching, when people care, when moms and dads want their daughters to be just as good as their sons, when they're in sixth, seventh, eighth grade, you know, and care, but just equally about sports, we see the result. And so hockey, absolutely, that pro league is actually doing quite well. And, you know, each day with hockey, you know, the game looks. Looks better. You know, you have the Neanderthals and the male chauvinists out there who still want to be negative towards women's sports. Well, I think there's like, three that are left hiding under a desk in Wyoming, so enjoy it, guys. If you watch the Olympics, you know, you're cheering, you know, and if you're an American, you're cheering for that woman's hockey team. And Ed is a great team. Prediction for you. Prediction, okay. The US And Canada will be playing for the gold medal. And the reason I feel good about that prediction is there have been seven times that there's been a gold medal given out in women's ice hockey. Canada's won five, U.S. has won two, and only one time was not. The U.S. was not in the final game. That was Sweden. So bottom line is these. It's Canada, it's US. I covered the game in Pyeongchang in 2018, and oh, my goodness, I mean, the rivalry is. It's it's Red Sox, Yankees, it's Michigan, Ohio State.
- [37:13]
A
Yeah.
- [37:14]
B
Now again, it's not 100,000 people in Michigan Stadium. 105,000, whatever it is, 110,000. But it's, you know, it's, it's whatever the arena is, the intensity, it's, it's great.
- [37:25]
A
So you think U. S, Canada in the women's.
- [37:28]
B
In the women's. And you know what?
- [37:29]
A
Who do you think wins?
- [37:30]
B
Well, you know.
- [37:31]
A
Care to predict?
- [37:32]
B
Well, Canada has won most of them.
- [37:34]
A
Yeah.
- [37:35]
B
The US Has a couple of the ones that Canada won, the U.S. you know, like by an inch. They missed, you know, open net a few years, a few Olympics ago.
- [37:43]
A
Yeah.
- [37:43]
B
You know, I'll say the U.S. i'm not cheering one way or the other. Obviously, I'm an American, a US Citizen. But I do think you've mentioned the interesting point you're making about a pro league. This is why the U.S. women's soccer team is so good, is because the U.S. cared then to have either a developmental team, a national team, and have tournaments and continue to play friendlies. So if you have an Olympic team, whatever the sport, women's or men's, and then you just don't play, you know, then it's that you drop, they drop off a cliff until four years later. Well, that happened with Brazil and women's soccer. And because the Brazilians couldn't have cared less about their women's team. Outrageous. You know, Marta, you keep that going. So here, now you have to your point, you have the women having opportunity to play games, continue to be coached, continue to learn, play together, be teammates. Some of them obviously then will be teammates on the Olympic team. But also you have an ongoing system that supports year round, you know, all four years of that quadrennial, not just saying, oh, go and be good at the Olympics and we'll see you in four years. Which we were doing to women's sports in particular for probably a generation.
- [38:58]
A
Yeah. You mentioned Kamila Valieva, and I just want to remind folks about what a big deal that was because you broke so much news on this story and it obviously had a huge impact on US Figure skating as well. As you mentioned, they got the gold by default after that investigation into her doping scandal was completed. Then they had to go to Paris to receive it, like two years after the actual Olympics. Does any of that still hang over the competition? Like, how is that going to kind of fuel and find its way into the conversations in the competition?
- [39:33]
B
Now, the question of doping is always going to Be a part of the Olympics. And I sometimes laugh and not like in a funny way when people in baseball say, well, the steroids era is over in baseball. I mean, there's way more money in baseball than there is in the Olympics. And people will cheat, sadly. And I'm not making any accusations here. I'm just saying they'll find new ways we can use our brains. And the bad chemists are still way ahead of the good chemists. And we saw that with Lance Armstrong. We've seen it. I mean, it's not just Russians, obviously, the Americans. We gave the world Marion Jones and Lance Armstrong that. Two worst his and her cheaters of all time in sports, sadly, and of course, baseball and whatever. So doping is with us. And I know a lot of people don't want to talk about that. You know, I know it's. Can I just enjoy, you know, a game? Can I. Do I need to be thinking of is the short stop cheating or is the, you know, is the offensive lineman juiced up? I get it. I do understand that. But obviously, journalistically, this is what you cover again, because is it a place fair playing field? If it's not a fair playing field, then what do we have? Right. Obviously, Russian doping has been a part of the Olympics, you know, and East German, my goodness, what they were doing to those young swimmers in the 70s, telling, here, take your vitamins. And mom and dad couldn't say anything as their daughter was developing muscles and facial hair and her voice was getting deeper. And that was, of course, the state doing that to those women. So while the world was hating the East German swimmers, women swimmers and track and field stars, you also feel for them as well.
- [41:17]
A
So this sort of stuck in that system, right?
- [41:20]
B
Oh, for sure. They were victims as well. And so that I don't think I'd love to be wrong. I'd love to say that doping will never will be gone and whatever. No, you and I were not born yesterday. There is just no way. Having said that, it's a good thing, in my opinion, that Russia is not allowed to have a team in any of the competition. And there's just so few Russian and Belarusian athletes that are allowed individually again. We know that's because of the invasion, Putin's invasion of Ukraine. But the end result is they have been punished. And so that's a statement, and hopefully the statement is enough that eventually governments decide, hey, we can't cheat because now we're not at the Olympics, right?
- [42:05]
A
So that's enough of a deterrent to change behavior.
- [42:08]
B
We know how much presidents and leaders of countries care about the athletic success of their athletes. We know that President Trump will be all over social media, positively, whatever, waving the flag when something great happens at these Olympics. We know how Putin, my goodness, in Sochi, he showed up figure skating when they won that team competition. And he's, you know, he's in the team pictures. So this I have no idea. I don't cover Putin, but he cannot be happy with the fact that he doesn't have a team. His flag will not be at the Olympics. Hopefully that's a deterrent, but again, we don't know. But going back to Valieva, I know people have asked me, she was 15 four years ago. She's 19 now. She is skating in shows in Russia. She is not competitive anymore. The Russians have moved on. The Russians do that in a way that I think is a real negative. I mean, they have these young skaters. In the last three Olympics, Russians have won five of the nine Olympic women's figure skating medals, and they're all gone. So they're basically put on the discard pile before they hit 20. Well, the United States, obviously, we've just talked about Melissa Liu at 20 and Amber Glenn at 26. Well, clearly the United States is not doing that.
- [43:35]
A
So there is going to be a new phrase I think everyone's going to be saying after these Games, which is schemo, because there's a new sport, ski mountaineering. What do we need to know?
- [43:45]
B
My prediction on this, it's going to be a huge hit on television.
- [43:49]
A
Okay.
- [43:49]
B
And again, my predictions actually are often wrong. So, you know, take it with a grain of salt or, you know, whatever. But what is this? What is this? Well, when I have been focusing on this and keeping an eye on it and reading a little bit about it and watching what's been going on, the one thing that hit me is this two word phrase. Skiing uphill.
- [44:17]
A
No, thank you.
- [44:18]
B
Skiing uphill. We are talking about, I think the equivalent could be in layperson's terms, like an Ironman triathlon. You know what I mean? We're talking about mountain climbing. It's all kind of included in this. Mountain climbing and skiing uphill. In other words, the effort to get up to the mountain. And of course, you're at altitude there, right? Very, very rare air. And now you're climbing, you're skiing, you're skiing uphill. It's endurance. And as I said, I actually think, first of all, this will be the first time ever. And I think people are going to be going what is this? And I cannot wait to watch a man or woman ski uphill.
- [45:06]
A
Correct.
- [45:06]
B
I mean, because those of us who ski, and I, I have over the course of my life, and maybe you have others, you know, you ski downhill, you don't ski uphill, you use gravity, Right. And so the strength. That's why I say the Ironman triathlon. And we are talking about superhuman efforts here. The backdrop will be extraordinary. We're talking about the Dolomites, the mountains. I mean, that's just going to be gorgeous. And when people, when fans, observers, spectators, people turning on their TVs or watching on their devices, whatever, when they see these new things, right? You know, over the years, snowboarding, of course, got in the Olympics. It's now totally traditional.
- [45:46]
A
Yes.
- [45:46]
B
Snowboard, cross and all kinds of other kinds of things. X Games, right, the old espn X Games. Why is this in the Olympics? I think a lot of people might ask, certainly the Summer Olympics breakdancing, which became infamous for the Australian, among others. Why? Here's why, folks. The idea is to try to attract younger viewers. And by younger, at this point, I mean almost under what, 50, 55 even, you know, that didn't grow up with Jim McKay and ABC and the Olympics and what have you, that they're trying to attract those younger viewers who are intrigued by this, who might even, you know, do some of this stuff, Right?
- [46:29]
A
And who may chew ninjas to be like, what is this thing about right.
- [46:32]
B
Now we know that older people will do that because it sounds interesting and already be watching, theoretically, because they're going to be, you know, appointment TV and they're going to watch it. But so many, I think, will want to see it on their, you know, want to watch the, you know, the videos on Instagram and on TikTok and whatever else. Wherever they're, they're getting their, their news and their information and in this case, NBC and the other rights holders, they want a piece of that. They desperately need that. They need young people to care about the Olympics as much as their parents, grandparents and great grandparents. If they don't get those young viewers now, or at least attract them on their devices, on their phones, if not via, you know, the TV in the living room, well, then what do you have in the next 20, 30 years when that's your core audience and all of a sudden they're not in tune to watching the Olympics?
- [47:19]
A
So Schemo, Schemo is what I want to watch.
- [47:21]
B
I think it's gonna be big and I can't wait. I will not be Anywhere near it. Not because I wouldn't want to be, but I'll be. You know, I'll be. I choose. I choose indoor events at the Winter Olympics.
- [47:31]
A
That's the smartest way to do it, you know?
- [47:33]
B
What?
- [47:33]
A
Yeah.
- [47:33]
B
I mean, it's cold outside, but it's not. Well, it's not warm in our.
- [47:37]
A
You can have a hot cocoa in your hand and still do your job.
- [47:39]
B
All my colleagues, I see their tweets and their posts, and they're on a mountaintop and they're. You know, they have seven layers on and they're. It's minus 20.
- [47:47]
A
No, thank you.
- [47:48]
B
No, I'll watch that later. It's figure skating, which has always been the ultimate American drama.
- [47:54]
A
So, as you well know, these Games have the power to create these magical, singular moments that really just. They define history for us in so many ways, like core memories for so many of us. I'm curious now, as you're going into these Games, do you carry some of those with you? Like, when you look back on past Winter Games in particular, are there still moments that you're like, I can't believe I witnessed that. I can't believe that happened?
- [48:21]
B
All the time, really. All the time. You know, it's interesting. You know, longevity is not always, you know, prized in our country. And, you know, Ilia Malinin, for example, the quad God, you know, should he win that gold medal, you know, to put it in perspective. And by the way, not just me, I mean, other journalists can do this, although I probably go back longer than most. But to be able to put in perspective the battle of the Bryant in 1980 in Calgary, where Brian Boitano, as he has said, he only did triple jumps, only, quote, unquote only. And everything that he did as a triple, Ilya Malinin is doing as a quad, you know, that. I think that helps the reader, that helps the viewer, the consumer of news, understand the magnitude of what they're watching. I did watch Brian Boitano. I did watch Brian Orser, that. That incredible battle. 1/10 of 1point on 1 judge's scorecard, the difference between gold and silver. And they remember it to this day, both of them. I know both of them, and it's ingrained. Moving on, all of the Olympics and disappointment. Michelle Kwan, who just finished her stint as ambassador to Belize, so clearly a success story on the ice and off. Nine time national champ, five time world champ, two time Olympic medalist, but not a gold medalist. 1998, favored to win the gold, skated great, would have won every gold medal except the one she was going for that night in Nagano. Tara Lipinski comes along. All credit to Tara. Those four minutes, she grabs the judges by the throat and says, come along on this incredible joyride with me. And she won again. 1/10 of 1point on one judges scorecard. As close as it could be back in the old 6.0 system. Now it's a point system, it's different, but you know, Michelle Silver. And then four years later she comes back to Salt Lake City and it's bronze. You know, that informs me that, you know, I think there are times people think about us, you know, that we just are giving the news, you know, reporting, interviewing and you know, and yeah, we do that. Of course we do that. But we're human beings and I'm not clapping for them, I am not cheering. You don't want me to do that. You want me to of taking notes and doing my job to give you the information, the viewer, the listener, the reader. Get those quotes and comments as quickly as possible because you've just watched what happened. I want to hear. But we're human beings. And something like Michelle Kwan, who I knew and know so well, to see that disappointment, to cover that, to watch how she rebounded, to watch the incredible success she is, is in every way, you know that. So when, if you're interviewing someone who comes in fourth, you know, at these Olympics, I've covered and interviewed a lot of people who've come in fourth. You know, the tone, you know, of your voice, you know what it means. I'm never going to win an Olympic gold medal. Never come close, never, you know, I'm an athlete, but never. And that's. But I've been around so many hundreds and hundreds of these athletes at the this point that I feel, and I'm not trying to brag about that at all, I'm just saying that I would be mad at myself if I didn't incorporate all of their stories going back to the 80s in every question and in every paragraph and in every soundbite that I am able to offer.
- [51:49]
A
Yeah, I mean it's one of the reasons I have been such a huge fan of yours too in the way you do your job. Because the journalism is always first. You're never afraid to ask the tough questions. But you bring this empathy like you care about the athletes that you cover. That's clear in what you do.
- [52:05]
B
Well, thanks.
- [52:06]
A
And I am among the many who are really looking forward to watching your work and hearing your work and tuning into your podcast. Milan Magic. Right that's it.
- [52:15]
B
Yes.
- [52:15]
A
Thank you. And I'm just so grateful you took the time to hang out with us before you head out to cover another Olympics. Christine Brennan, thank you so much. This has been such a pleasure.
- [52:26]
B
Thank you. I've loved it. Thank you so much.