Chad Millman (2:13)

Welcome to Sharper Square presented by Hard Rock Bat. We are part of the Volume Podcast network. This is the show that makes the square sharper. It makes the wise guys pay attention. I am Chad Millman. I am joined as always by my co host, my companion, my compadre, my BFF Professional. Better. Simon Hunter. Hello, Simon.

Simon Hunter (2:38)

Chad. Are you enjoying your. No football Sundays, just the Olympics, I'm assuming, with you in the NBA.

Chad Millman (2:44)

Well, look, I was in Los Angeles for AllStar festivities actually on Sunday. I skipped the game because I went up to see my mom and my sister and my family in the Bay Area.

Simon Hunter (3:02)

Listen, it was a good game, actually.

Chad Millman (3:04)

It was actually a really good. It was a really good game and it was competitive and they might have saved the All Star Game, the NBA. I do have some commentary. It's great that we have, like a guest on today who is NBA specific and we're going to talk about all this. I will say LA and like, super bowl is in LA next year. I love la. I'm not against la.

Simon Hunter (3:32)

Here we go.

Chad Millman (3:35)

It is just a bitch to get around. And the way they set it up, the game was at the Intuit dome, which is 45 minutes from anything. And so if you're going to go to an event there you are, you are locked in, like it 45 minutes there. Getting out is not easy. Getting an uber took about 35 minutes. And then you got 45 minutes to get anywhere. So it's like, I'm not looking forward to that for Super Bowl. But LA is always fun to go through crazy, crazy nights. One of the nights, I went to Kenny Smith's Friday night dinner, and it was held on the property of this guy named Jimmy Goldstein. You would recognize Jimmy Goldstein anyone who watches the Lakers. Jimmy Goldstein is the other recognizable dude with floor seats other than Jack Nicholson. Our guest today knows exactly who I'm talking about. I'll bring him on in a second. He's always wearing. He's gotta be 100 years old. He's got bright gray hair. Always has someone very attractive sitting with him. He's always got on, like, a wacky hat and really colorful coats. And his house is the one that's been in a bunch of movies. It's kind of like a spaceship house in the Hollywood Hills that was famous for Charlie's Angels. They shot a lot of Charlie's Angels in there.

Simon Hunter (4:57)

Oh, okay.

Chad Millman (4:58)

Yeah. So that was really fun. Chris Rock was there. Sacha Baron Cohen was there. Dr. J was there. Let me tell you something, Simon. As a Philly guy and, you know, like before the Bulls, the Sixers were my team and Dr. J was my guy. And he stood up. He's the closest motherfucker in history. Like, he's got the full gray hair, he's got on the tinted glasses. He doesn't even walk. He just Sort of glides everywhere. The guy, he is so fucking cool. And people went crazy for all the celebrities that were there.

Simon Hunter (5:36)

People went crazy for Dr. J. Swag doesn't age, Chad.

Chad Millman (5:40)

It does not.

Simon Hunter (5:41)

It does not.

Chad Millman (5:41)

It does not at all. So that was really fun. Also, fans of the podcast will be happy to know I had lunch on Saturday afternoon with one of our favorite guests from years ago, screenwriter Alan Loeb, who wrote Wall Street 2. He wrote the movie 21 about the book bringing down the house. You know, he's been on. He's great to talk to. Also Michael Lasker, who will be our guest for the Oscars betting podcast as well. And that was great. It was great. We were having lunch. Major, not just celebrity sighting interaction. Are you ready? Demi Moore?

Simon Hunter (6:32)

Well, how did that even happen?

Chad Millman (6:35)

Demi Moore and Alan Loeb are friends. So we were sitting at lunch and Demi Moore comes over. Like we spent 10 minutes talking to Demi Moore and it was fantastic. She couldn't have been nicer. It was super friendly. Her and Al are great friends and they're chatting. I was just hanging. I was hobnobbing. I wasn't even hanging. I was hobnobbing.

Simon Hunter (7:00)

No, that's definitely one of my early crushes, especially in the early 90s. Man. Her Marine. Is that the name of the movie?

Chad Millman (7:07)

GI Jane.

Simon Hunter (7:08)

GI Jane. There we go.

Chad Millman (7:10)

GI Jane. Which is the joke that ultimately led to Chris Rock getting slapped by Will Smith. Yeah, we got a lot of all star to talk about. We got a lot of NBA to talk about. It's appropriate that we're talking about it now because our guest is another One of our volume brothers, Jason Timf, host of the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel and podcast. I feel like Jason is the epitome of the new democratic creator universe. He was a serious NBA obsessive hoops fan. Lakers fan has turned that into the preeminent NBA podcast show on all the time anchoring the volumes NBA coverage. We're going to set up the second half of the season. Get into the nitty gritty gossip. I'd love his take on tanking on Giannis on Calshi Dame. Lillard was giving Giannis a hard time about being on Kelshi at the all star game. Don't forget, get the shows at Sharper Square on YouTube. Subscribe like this video while you're at it. You can also subscribe to Sharper Square on apple pod, Spotify, etc. Let's welcome in Jason.

Jason Timf (8:31)

Tim.

Chad Millman (8:33)

What's up, buddy?

Jason Timf (8:34)

What's up, Chad? What's up, Simon? It's good to see you guys. Chad, I have to know. When I was watching the broadcast at the Intuit Dome, I couldn't even see the fans because of these lights that are by the seats. What was that like being in the arena?

Chad Millman (8:49)

Let me tell you something. They have made such a big deal about this being sort of a seamless experience, right? And because what you do is you download the app, and then they take a picture of your face in the app, and so you don't even have to stop. It's all facial recognition. When you're going in, if you're getting food, you can just pick it up and you don't have to stop, because if you've connected your credit card to the app and your face, they're capturing all that information. It's all very sort of, you know, what was that movie with Tom Cruise? Right? And so it's a little bit freaky. I was just not that impressed, to be honest. And I'll tell you why. It took, I think, four times to download the app. It kept timing out. And then when I did download the app the first time, it couldn't read my face. Another time, it timed out while trying to get me to log in. Even opening the app. When you open an app these days, and we've all become spoiled, you open an app and it immediately is on the page of the home screen. This, like, it's loading. It's got a guy dribbling a basketball that says, you know, into a dome powered by Microsoft. And it was taking four to five seconds just to get to the homepage that would have my tickets, that would have sort of the activities, all that kind of stuff. So a little bit of my experience was just soured because I was unimpressed. I was unimpressed with the tech, to be honest. And then once we were in, yeah, the lights were flashing everywhere. It was fine. It didn't, like, blind me. I would say the coolest, coolest part was, was that wall. I forgot what they call it. The wave or the swell. The swell. That is brilliant. And every NBA team should be creating something like this because it was awesome. And, like, they are making players miss free throws. And it was really. It was. It. It was definitely cool. I wish more teams in the NBA would sort of adopt that Premier League like, experience. It's great. Yeah.

Jason Timf (10:52)

You know, I. I remember McHale center growing up. They had the big wall of fans right behind the. The basket. It just provided, like, a. A different energy, I think. I think it's difficult to Replicate because so many teams are, or so many like games have more of like a grown up vibe than college basketball. And so like, it's hard to get people to commit to it. But I gotta, I gotta say overall, they're at least trying stuff. They're at least trying to make the experience different and unique, which I appreciate overall too. Like, I. As far as the, as far as the lighting goes, like it on the screen, it is kind of cool from the television perspective, it just looked like it might have been interfering with the actual fan experience. But I haven't been there yet, so I can't really comment on it.

Chad Millman (11:36)

I would also say, you know, they did this in Vegas. I went out to Vegas for the NBA cup and I was there for the finals for the Knicks and the spurs. And I don't know if the NBA sort of organized it this way, but there was a very specific San Antonio spurs cheering section that replicated some of the very engaged and loud and spirited cheering that I think spurs fans do. That is I think pulled from some of Mexican soccer. Right. And there was also a very engaged, very loud Knicks fans section. It made the game so much more exciting and so much better because like an NBA Cup, I've been to a bunch of them. It can be a pretty corporate event because it's a neutral court and fans aren't going to travel. But, but they had this. If they could figure out a way to replicate any of that, it would be truly amazing because it's great in an arena like that. It's really, really fun.

Jason Timf (12:34)

And when you don't have the, to the app thing you're pointing out, like, until these, these cell phone towers can manage the bandwidth necessary to actually service 20,000 people in a single building, none of it really matters. It's kind of like smart home tech. Like smart home tech is really cool in theory, but if it only works two thirds of the time when you're at your house and half the time you want to launch your phone into the drywall, it doesn't really serve its purpose. So like, yeah, I could totally feel you there.

Chad Millman (13:01)

All right, brother. You know, I love the NBA and there's a lot to talk about. There is tanking that is rampant that became an issue at All Star. More importantly, the second half of the season, what's interesting to me, and you've talked about this on your show, you look at the odds to win the title. You've got the Thunder at the shortest odds, then you got the Nuggets. I think after that you got The Knicks and I think mixed in there a little bit behind the Knicks are the Celtics and, and the Pistons. And you've said like I forgot Cleveland and San Antonio. The Pistons are one of the most interesting teams. I couldn't agree more. For people who haven't been paying attention who are, you know, NBA committed after the all star game, I don't understand why the Pistons aren't getting more love from bettors to improve their futures odds. Because they've got a five game lead in the conference for the number one seed and they've consistently been the most interesting all around team in the NBA. In the Eastern Conference. Explain to me what I'm missing.

Jason Timf (14:17)

They, they've been by any measure the most impressive team in the NBA in this regular season. It goes deeper than the team record. They've also been the best performing team against the best teams. So cleaning the glass gives you the ability to filter through by what their metrics look like against teams that are in the top 10 in point differential. So what do you look like when you're playing the other top teams in the league? And for some perspective, The Thunder are 6 and 8 in those matchups and have a plus 0.1 point differential. The Pistons are 10 and 3 and are almost 6 points. They're winning by an average of almost 6 points in those games. And so Detroit by any measure has had the most impressive regular season. But it really comes down to them physically mashing everybody. Like they're just huge at every position group. And so it's in the 82 game regular season when they're playing super hard every single night. And we've seen this before, there's always like this phase with young teams where they have the year where it all comes together and they play their best basketball every night in the regular season and they put up insane, you know, an insane record, insane metrics. And then in the subsequent seasons they start to relax a little bit in the regular season we're literally seeing that with the Thunder a little bit. This year we saw it with like Minnesota, they had that dominant year and then they've been a little bit sketchy as a regular season team. In the season since Memphis had that big dominant year in 2022, then they kind of like chilled out the years after. So Detroit's kind of in that mix right now where they're physically mashing everybody, playing harder than everybody every single night. They're dominating margins. So they're like second chance points up every single night, fast break points up every single night, points off of turnovers up every single night. The big thing that's kind of like a red flag for them is their half court offense. So like, if you can slow the Pistons down and actually control the margins in the half court, it's cade. Not a lot of shooting, not a lot of secondary ball handling. And so what ends up happening with teams like this is they typically end up running into a veteran team that's able to control the margins enough that it turns into a half court game. And there are just several substantially better half court offenses in the Eastern Conference than Detroit. And so for the record, I think they're going to do well in the postseason. I think they're probably going to make it to the conference finals. I just think, you know, one of these teams like Cleveland or New York or Boston, one of those teams I think is going to end up beating Detroit in a series where it just turns into too much cade in the half court and not enough ability to really execute with these more polished veteran teams.

Chad Millman (16:53)

Simon, I know you want to jump in because there's a team that he hasn't mentioned, but I have one follow up on the Eastern Conference. The Cavs jumped everybody with the James Harden trade. I'm so out on Harden. I feel like he is a non factor when it comes to the playoffs. Every time he goes to a team, they end up not getting where they're going. This guy has had nine lives at this point in the NBA as a guy who can help a team turn the corner. A lot of teams keep buying in when he has consistently been a guy who cannot deliver in the playoffs.

Jason Timf (17:31)

I think Cleveland is going to win the East. I don't feel like super, super passionate about it. I think this is all really close up at the top. But they in my most recent contender rankings, they were the 1 Eastern Conference team that I put in the top tier. And I think I want to take the James Harden part and address it kind of separately from the team. So specifically when you're looking at the James Harden edition, it's not in a vacuum that you're considering him. Because if you're considering him in a vacuum, yeah, you're right, you're going to be disappointed every single time. But it's the matchups or the partnership specifically with Donovan in the comparison with Darius Garland. Darius Garland consistently every single year has broken down physically. When he gets to the postseason, specifically with foot injuries, and when Darius Garland is 100% healthy, he is so fast that he is one of the best offensive players in the entire NBA. Because he can just cut you to pieces at the point of attack. Hard drives that just break a defense and he's such a good passer and they have so much shooting and Jared Allen is so good on the roll. Like they, they were really good. That's what we saw last year. That was the Cavs team that won 60 plus games. It was healthy Darius Garland, but once again, in previous seasons, he'd struggle to stay healthy in the regular season and then still be broken down in the postseason. Last year was like, oh, it's finally coming together. He's healthy. And then he still broke down. He still fell apart. The Cavs offense fell apart. So James Harden by any measure is a better player than Darius Garland because he's just able to stay healthier and reach his individual ceiling more often. When you. The second piece of it is the partnership with Donovan Mitchell. Again, he is the second best player on this team. When you look around the league, most of the number two options are somewhat inconsistent in some way, shape or form. They have big nights and they have bad nights. And that's kind of been what James Harden's experience has been like in like last time in Philly. He has two giant playoff games, it's a couple of game winners and then he's bad in the other games. That's like kind of what you expect from a secondary star. The main issue is, is Joel Embiid also really struggled for large chunks of that series And Kawhi Leonard in the Denver series last year, unable to reach the level of the top tier superstars or in a previous year, Paul George is this guy that he's number twoing for. Right. So like the main thing here is Donovan Mitchell is actually a more reliable playoff performer than any these other dudes he's played with. He, James Harden is clearly better than Darius Garland. And then that brings me to the rest of the roster. So, like, I actually think a sneaky big part of why Cleveland vaulted up in the odds and why guys like me are so high on him has to do with the additions of Keon Ellis and Dennis Schroeder. And this is where you have to look at the way the Eastern Conference is put together. It is very much a guard conference. It's Jalen Brunson and, you know, Deuce McBride. If he can get healthy before the end of the season, it's Tyrese Maxey in VJ Edgecomb, right? It's Peyton Pritchard and Derek White. Like, as you go down the Eastern Conference, it's just a bunch of really good guards. Cade's kind of the one odd guy out there in terms of like the big type of ball handler. It's a lot of small guards, and Dennis Schroeder and Keon Ellis are both undersized. They're not guys that you like to guard bigger forwards, but they are two of the very best small guard defenders in the World League. And so you have a Cleveland Cavaliers team that when you really start to go position group by position group, it's like they have two awesome shot creators in Donovan Mitchell and James Harden. Donovan Mitchell's been a walking 30 points on 60 true shooting in the playoffs like every year as of late. You have James Harden as your number two. You've got awesome pick and roll partners for them. Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. You've got tons of shooting. This Cavs team is loaded up with jump shooting talent, and you've got a deep group of guys. You can add Jaylon Tyson into this group as well. A deep group of perimeter defenders that can guard all of these quick guards that you have in the Eastern Conference. So, like, if I really look at all the teams in the East, I think they're the most complete team. They have the best combination of shot creation, pick and roll partners, off ball shooting, perimeter defense and interior defense. With Jared Allen and Evan Mobley, I think they've got the best combination of all those things in the East. Again, they're not a runaway favorite, but I would pick them by a small margin over the rest of those teams.

Simon Hunter (21:41)

Finally, let's get to a real question here that matters. Just yes or no. You're locked in. Jason, you know, all things NBA. Is that Katie's burner?

Jason Timf (21:52)

Oh, man. I've been trying to avoid this one as much as I can because I just. Here's the problem. There's a lot of strong evidence. Like, the main one is the. The dudes who are in the GC with him are like known friends of kd. So, like, that, That's a, that's a. Like, if they're. If. I know. I know a couple of those guys personally.

Chad Millman (22:12)

Talking about. Set up what you're talking about because I've seen like some of this on Twitter, but I didn't really.

Simon Hunter (22:17)

You don't know this whole story chat. I feel like everyone does.

Jason Timf (22:19)

So Katie's got these burner accounts and he's in these group chats and he's just burning down his teammates in these, in these groups. So, yeah.

Simon Hunter (22:29)

So, like, like, like, like, it looks like it's KD like, someone's.

Jason Timf (22:34)

It's really bad, too. It's really bad. And, like, again, the specific thing is, is he's got these buddies of his that are in the gcs. So, like, any in this person, this burner is clearly, like, not. He's openly pretending to be KD at the very least. So, like, at a certain point, these other dudes who know him would have gone to Kevin and been like, is this you? You know what I mean? So, like, it's. The evidence is compelling. The hard part for me is it's just really hard for me to believe that KD would do this recklessly, like, another way.

Simon Hunter (23:04)

So you're a married man. I'm a guy in my late 30s now. You will see guys get into weird niches and hobbies. Twitter is clearly a hobby for him. Like, I'm not on Twitter. I'm not. That has never been huge for me. He loves Twitter, so I'll get us back on track. I. I do want to bring up.

Chad Millman (23:19)

I think it's interesting, but what did he say about the teammates? Because I haven't read those.

Jason Timf (23:24)

I. I can't remember all of it off the top of my head, but, like, he basically said Shane calling dudes.

Simon Hunter (23:29)

Bums, being like, no one likes this guy. Like, Kyrie Irving. He said no one likes him. Like, he really. It was.

Jason Timf (23:36)

He said Shangoon can't shoot or defend. He, like, said Jabari. He can't trust Jabari to get a stopper to make a shot. He, like, talked trash about, like, Devin Booker. He, like. Like, he. He went. He went all over the place, dude. Like, it was it, like. And that's the thing is it's all so intense and aggressive that, like, it just adds that little bit of doubt for me, just that little bit that, like, is stopping me from, like, fully buying in on it.

Chad Millman (23:59)

But he does have a history of going on Twitter and defending himself very aggressively. Simon, you know, and Jason, you. You guys. You probably know Matt Moore from Action Network, and, like, he has gotten into huge debates with Kevin Durant about Kevin Durant's status in the league and the advanced analytics and what they're saying. Raheem Palmer, who was at Action, is now at the ringer. Same thing. Like, KD is in his DMs, and he's complaining about the coverage he gets and how he's, like, ranked amongst players. You even see with KD when there are fans in the stands and they're like, kd is my number one. I don't care what anyone says, and he'll look up in the stands and wink at that kid with the sign like it's clearly a thing for him. So it would not surprise me at all if any of this was true.

Jason Timf (24:50)

I would say it's more likely than not that it was kd. Let's just put it that way.

Chad Millman (24:56)

By the way, by the way, one more thing. At All Star on Saturday night, I was at an event. Like 100 people were there, including KD. I walked by him. It's just out of context. It's really a remarkable physical presence.

Jason Timf (25:15)

Oh, he's so tall.

Chad Millman (25:17)

So tall, so impressive. And like, you know, on the court, he looks so much thinner than everybody else, but in real life, he's such a massive human being. It's. It's truly remarkable. I just want to tell everybody I was in with kd.

Simon Hunter (25:37)

One last point with the East. No one's talking about it, but I know pros have been hammering this team all summer, hammer them all fall, and it's been paying out for him. Boston. Boston is still 14 to 1.

Chad Millman (25:49)

Yes.

Simon Hunter (25:50)

And we see it every time. The NBA, if you have a leader which you know, you can give Brown as much crap as you want, he is a leader of that team. You have the coach. They've been there before. Dad just talked about all the issues with a cav stroke. And you talk about Detroit's issues, they can be schemed up by the right type of coach. 14 to 1. And the possibility of Jason Tatum coming back for the playoffs, I'm shocked. Jason, that wasn't a team you fired away on because again, I talked to like, pros every weekend about NBA stuff because I'm trying to get back into it again. I'm a Sixers fan. I've been hoping here six years. Unfortunately, it's all Boston love. Are they. You think they're off place or do you think that's a nice sleepy contender here in the East?

Jason Timf (26:27)

I've been super impressed by Boston this year. I think them winning to the extent that they have is a testament to Joe Missoula in particular, as well as the continuity that Brad Stevens has really brought into this group by just kind of sticking with fundamentally the same core over the. Like Derrick White, Peyton Pritchard, Sam Houser, Jalen Brown. These are guys that have been around for a long time in Boston. And Joe Missoula's system, this driving kick system has come with lumps for Boston. The main one is like they can get stagnant and settle and take bad threes versus taking Good threes. There's a huge difference between those two ideas. Like, sometimes, like, teams will pump up three point volume for math's sake, and in the process, you take a lot of bad shots and it doesn't actually work out for you. And, oh, what's actually fascinating is they've lost Drew Holiday, they've lost Kristaps Porzingis, they've lost Al Horford, they lost Jason Tatum. So four of their core six players from the rotation that they're basically four of their top six players from, from the championship team must be a rebuild year, right?

Simon Hunter (27:28)

Everyone's like, they're going to be eight seed, seven seed. Yeah.

Jason Timf (27:31)

I thought everyone thought they would be more like the Pacers, right? And like, you know, I was kind of more in the middle. I thought they'd be kind of like right around 500 and like the, the main goal you're looking for there is like, oh, maybe we'll find a rotation piece for the future. By the way, they did. Jordan Walsh is going to be that guy. I think Nima Keda also is kind of proven to be a rock solid starting center for that particular team. But I would argue that, like, Boston's success is very much a product of their system. And I mean that as a compliment, but they are a team that I think is out kicking their coverage in terms of talent right now. And the main thing that I would look at there is like, okay, do we think their perimeter defense core is as good as some of these other teams in the East? I actually don't. Their front court, like, their center rotation, even with Vucevic, Vucevich and Keita is better than what they had to start the season. But I don't think they have as good a center rotation as some of these other teams. They're like, Jared Allen and Evan Mobley can have a huge advantage there. Jalen Duran and Isaiah Stewart are going to have a huge advantage there. Like, even Carl Anthony Townsend, Mitchell Robinson, that's a huge advantage there. And then when it comes down to shot creation, like, you know, Jalen Brown's had a very impressive season. He has tailed off pretty substantially in the last month or so in terms of his efficiency. His efficiency is kind of cratered a little bit, and it just. There's a lot of pressure on Jason Tatum not just to come back, but to be really, really good. And so, again, a testament to the Celtics organizationally that they've had this season. Again, like, them and Indiana are the two teams you're looking at. Like, both teams basically lost their starting center, both teams lost their best player, one team went into the tank and the other team is like legitimately a championship contender. So shout out to Boston for the success of this season. But like, again, I have them in that same tier. Like, I don't want to sit here and pretend like they're they're not in the mix, but I just like a couple of their these other teams better almost in like each of their individual position groups.

Chad Millman (29:21)

I have so many questions for you. Let's do a quick break from our friends at Hard Rock and we'll come back on their side because I got to dig in on something. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bat Florida's Sportsbook. I know it's tough with no football, but like the song says, I bet I will survive. With Hard Rock Bet. There's always something to bet on every night. Hoops, hockey and so much more. Plus all the great same game parlay, live betting and player prop options you're used to. And did you know Hard Rock Bet is the official sports betting partner of the Miami Heat and the Orlando Magic? Incredible. So if you haven't signed up with Hard Rock Bet yet, there's never been a better time. New signups can double their winnings on their first 10 bets max 50 bucks. That's right. If you would have won a hundred bucks on your bet, make that $200. The Hard Rock Bet Sportsbook app is the only legal sportsbook for whenever you're in Florida, and it's also live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado and Michigan. Coming soon to more states, too. Plus, Hard Rock Bet offers new promos daily. So whenever you're listening, just open the app and check out what you've got. Any day of the week, download the Hard Rock Bet and make your first deposit.

Simon Hunter (30:42)

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Jason Timf (31:23)

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Watch now on NBC and Peacock.

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Chad Millman (33:32)

We're going to talk about this one team in the west that you are high on that has great odds. But this is like a quirky NBA thing and you're an NBA insider. So I want to get your take. A couple years ago, IME Udoka gets run out of Boston because of improper relationships and Joe Missoula takes over. Right before that, Udoka's top assistant was Will Hardy. Will Hardy went and took the Jazz job. I always wonder. The Celtics are now perennial contenders. Great coach, great roster. Brad Stevens has almost gotten them out of cap hell. Will Hardy is now in what year four of coaching a craptastic Jazz team that is the epitome of tanking right now. Is there any scuttlebutt like do you ever hear anything like where Will Hardy is like what the fuck man? How did I miss the timing on this?

Jason Timf (34:32)

I think Will Hardy is set up really well to coach a very fun Jazz team. So the Jazz have been. So I'm not sure if either of you guys are familiar with Keonte George, but he's a young guard. For the first couple of years in Utah that was just too inefficient. There was some flashes, some high scoring games, but it just didn't really come together. And he's actually third in most improved player odds this year. In a distant third I think at like plus 800 on hard rock bet right now, which is surprising to me because I'd actually put him closer into that same group with Denny Abdia and Jalen Johnson. He has been in that kind of like that like dead serious mix of guys who are in the mid-20s and points per game and over 60 true shooting, a legitimate pull up jump shooting threat from all three from. He's a legit three level scorer. He's become a very good passer and pick and roll and between him and Lori Markanen and then you've got Jaren Jackson entering into this situation now he just got. He's going to sit out the rest of the season, but he'll be back next year. Walker Kessler had a torn LeBron, but he's actually one of the better young center prospects in the league. So like I think with Utah it was an investment and Utah is very much like in the next group of that like kind of OKC San Antonio type of situations that's about to take a turn towards being a legitimate contender in this league. I think they're going to be like a legit middle of the Western Conference type of threat next season. And so with Hardy it was just an investment, you know, and I think, I think he's going to be coaching some dead serious basketball now. To me the fascinating part is like IME Udoka was very much the toughness coach. He was the guy who came in and was just super hard on Tatum and Brown to turn them into tougher basketball players. He goes off to Houston. Joe Missoula and Will Hardy are both like brilliant offensive tacticians. Will Hardy is excellent with his off ball action. That's what he's been killing teams with this year with Lori Markin in like the amount of times that he'll just have one of his centers up top with the kit with the ball. And then there's Lori going through some sort of off ball screening action and slipping to the basket for layups and dunks and getting all sorts of easy threes. And then Joe Missoula is kind of like the, the pioneer of modern NBA spacing. Like the four out one in spacing for matchup. Attacking guards in the dunker spot is a big one. If you situate a guard underneath the basket, that means the guards and help the guards and help. Then that when Tatum's driving or Jaylen Brown's driving, he's finishing over a smaller player at the rim. He was the one who kept situating Porzingis and Horford above the break so that the rim protectors are far away from the basket. So, like, it's kind of cool that you have like a toughness mentality based coach who kind of cultivated these two offensive geniuses. It's kind of a random thing there.

Chad Millman (37:14)

All right, Simon, I will finally let you jump in with the most important question.

Simon Hunter (37:20)

Well, we already had the most important question, but yeah, we, we obviously, we want to talk about the Timberwolves, right? They're a team that is top tier. You, you have them ranked pretty high and you know, you can get them pretty good odds. Right, Chad, is it, what, 30 to 1?

Chad Millman (37:34)

Something like that? Yeah.

Jason Timf (37:37)

Minnesota to me is like the Philadelphia Eagles of the NBA.

Simon Hunter (37:41)

Oh, no.

Jason Timf (37:42)

And this last year is probably not the best example, but the year before, the year they won the Super Bowl, I'd point to there were a couple times that season where if you turn on the Eagles, you're like, these guys are terrible. You know what I mean? Because, like, it. There was just like the, the offense lacked that like down the field element and, and there it just. Things would look super stagnant. But then what happened? They'd get into the postseason and their offensive line would maul you and their defensive line would maul you, and they just were too difficult to beat because how physical they were on the front. That's kind of like what Minnesota is at this point. Minnesota, to me, they have been one of the worst effort teams in the regular season of the last couple of years. And talk to anybody who covers the Timberwolves, talk to anybody who's a fan of the Timberwolves. They'll tell you these dudes like straight up don't try a lot of the time. They are very, very bored in the regular season. Yet despite that, they have awesome metrics. They are top 10 in offensive rating, top 10 in defensive rating, top 10 in rebounding. They are a team that has in the large sample actually performed really well considering how poor their effort has been. What that tells you is that their fastball is every bit as fast as the best teams in the league and the specific dynamic is they can physically overwhelm you. They have Rudy Gobert, who's this brilliant defensive anchor that can run a variety of different coverages. They've got Jaden McDaniels, who's one of the best three and D wings in the entire NBA. You've got this depth of perimeter defense talent as well. Guys like Dante DiVincenzo. Anthony Edwards can guard on the ball really well. Jalen Clark can guard on the ball really well. And what they have is this really impressive collection of on ball bully ball players like Nas Reed can bully people. Julius Randle can bully people. Anthony Edwards in his own way has a bully ball element and they're surrounded with jump shooting. Jaden Jaden McDaniels has taken a massive leap as a three point shooter this year. That is huge. So what they have is this brilliant combination of athleticism and shooting so that when they ratchet things up, when they really throw their fastball, they physically overwhelm you on defense and then their main offensive players just draw so much attention and everyone's a good kick out three point shooter. They just have a really, really high ceiling on both ends of the floor. The other last part, the main reason why I have them in that top tier is their specific matchup with okc. They have the combination of things that you need to make OKC struggle on offense, which is athletic on the perimeter, and having real rim protection. In the matchups against Oklahoma City this year, they've actually kind of overwhelmed OKC and made their offense look really limited. The main difference between the two teams in their playoff matchup last year was Shay kicked ants ass, like kicked his ass bad and Ant is just a better player by a wide margin than he was last year. The specific difference is his at the rim finishing. He used to be a guy that was very much like a bull in a china shop going downhill and he's much better now at patiently waiting for the play to develop in finding the right seams to attack. And so he's his rim finishing has skyrocketed year over year. Like I mean legitimately skyrocketed. And so because of that, he's far more efficient. He's a little bit less. He was a little too heavy on the three point volume last year. He's toned that back a little bit. He's turned those into rim attempts. Ants better. Jaden's better. It's even the best version of Rudy we've seen in years. They're deeper. I love the IO Dasunmu edition as like a legitimate guy that can go for 25, 30 points on any given night. He was playing awesome with Chicago this year. Was one of the better shot creators. I just think they're a team that's way better than they look in the standings because they don't play hard all the time. Typically teams that flip the switch scare you off. This team can really flip the switch. Like that's a they. They will flip it and they're damn near impossible to beat when they do.

Chad Millman (41:34)

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Simon Hunter (42:52)

Yes.

Chad Millman (42:52)

I was at the liquor store fulfilling my annual birthday tradition of buying 12 beers from 12 different countries for my own birthday party to share. Kind of like a little UN Council meeting in our guts. And there at checkout, there was little Zbiotics vials ready to go. And I said, I don't need those, I've got plenty. They've become a part of my routine for incredible mornings ahead, so can't recommend it enough. And now you're a year older and I know that you recovered with ease because of Zbiotics. Enjoy the biggest nights of the upcoming spring without sacrificing an incredible next day. Start your night with Zebiotics Pre Alcohol and wake up clear headed, focused and better than ever. Go to ZBiotics.com now. You'll get 15% off your first order when you use Sharper Square at checkout. Plus it's backed by a 100% money back guarantee, so there's no risk. Subscriptions are also available for maximum consistency. That's zbiotics.com sharpersquare and use the code sharporsquare at checkout for 15% off.

Jason Timf (44:12)

Off.

Chad Millman (44:12)

All right, Jason, we've talked about the T Wolves, we've talked about the Celtics, we've talked about the Cavs. I don't feel like we need to spend a lot of time in the Thunder and the Nuggets at top the Futures tables right now. As I mentioned, at the top of the show you got your start as a Lakers obsessive. You know that franchise, your show used to be called Lakers tonight. They of course take up so much oxygen. Luka is I think second in MVP ads right now after Shay. What is your take on this franchise and how it manages itself in the coming years? It's not a, it's not a championship contending team right now, but what do they do to become a championship contending team?

Jason Timf (45:02)

So you know how we were talking about with Minnesota, there's this combination of athleticism and jump shooting. Those are like I would argue if you asked me just to listen. The most important traits that an NBA roster needs to have, athleticism and jump shooting, would be the two big ones. Athleticism has just come to the forefront as the league has become so much, so much more of a transition league. The simple way I can describe it is a transition possession is worth roughly 20% more than a half court possession. So every team is hunting as many transition opportunities as possible. This is why Indiana, for example, went on a run last year. Just because Tyrese Halliburton breeds such a transition heavy attack that they can win on the margins and it doesn't matter if they struggle in the half court a little bit. It you got to have athleticism, you got to have jump shooting. The Lakers are devoid of both. Their strength right now is the fact that they have these three stars and ironically none of them have been available at the same time. Because when LeBron and Austin and Luca were all available, it was when LeBron skipped training camp and it was like his first week of games and he was bad. Then Austin goes down, LeBron finds his groove, Austin comes back, Luca goes down with A hamstring injury. So they've always just had two of these guys available this year. And those guys have been so good. They've carried them to their strong record. But down the roster they are so devoid of athleticism and jump shooting. And LeBron I think has a good chance to leave after this season. If LeBron leaves, let's say he goes to Cleveland. I mean even if he comes back, we're Talking about a 42 year old next year, right? So like all of a sudden it's just Luca and Austin. So this roster needs to be completely rebuilt from the ground up. They do not have a starting small forward, they won't have a starting power forward. When LeBron leaves, they are not going to re up with Deandre Ayton. He might pick up his option, but I promise you they're looking at a different starting center next year. And when it comes to the bench, you're looking for guys who can knock down threes and defend. They don't have a single guy on the team who is a good catch and shoot player and a good defender. They have two good catch and shoot players, Rui and Luke Kennard, who they just traded for. Both of them are significantly below average defensive players. So this is a complete upheaval that they need over the next few years. And where you're really seeing the, the, the suffering is from the mistakes that Rob has made on the margins over the years, like blowing first round picks on Jalen. Hufino and Dalton connect, like getting nothing out of them. You look over at the Clippers and like Jordan Miller and Kobe Sanders are second round picks for them that are playing huge roles because they're hits in the draft. The Lakers have missed on almost every major draft pick they've made in the last five years. You add to that the Kendrick Nunn signing and the Gabe Vincent signing. So you've botched your mid level exceptions. Even the good players that have come up to your system, you've let walk. Letting Alex Crusoe walk last year Jordan Goodwin was one of the most valuable role players on that team. They needed to clear a roster spot. All they had to do was attach a second round pick to one of these lesser contracts to do it. They refuse to. They let Jordan Goodwin walk. Goodwin's having an awesome season in Phoenix right now. Like literally one of their most important role players. And guess what? He can catch and shoot and play defense. The one thing that the Lakers are lacking. And so there have just been so many misses on the margins over the last few years. What they need is to hit on all that stuff. They need to hit on their 2026 first round pick. They need to hit on their mid level exception signing. They need to hit on a trade or two this summer for a starting caliber player. They need to hit on the margins with vet minimum signings and two way guys and like they just need to go like 10 for 10 on their next few trade cycles and free agent cycles. And we're dealing with Rob Polinka who's just been perennially really bad at this. So I'm not super optimistic about it, to be frank.

Chad Millman (48:43)

It's so interesting because you look at that Anthony Davis Luca trade a year later, obviously Davis is no longer even on the Mavericks and Luka's anchoring a mediocre team in the Lakers. It kind of hasn't worked out for anybody, especially not the Lakers in the way they thought that it would. And they got to sort of figure out how are they going to build around this guy because that's going to be their superstar. And it's fascinating that it hasn't. That trade did not catapult either team into the stratosphere that they were expecting it to do another one.

Simon Hunter (49:22)

I think it worked out perfect for both teams. You got Luca if you're the Lakers. I mean, holy. And you got Cooper Flag. Like I, as someone that's a Duke fan, I really did not think this kid would be what he is already so good again. He's 18, 19 years old. He's already got multiple ways to be guys off. It's just the whole thing. I can't believe that they got that lucky because I'm with you Dallas. They should be sent back 10 years because of that trade. And the ping pong balls bounce their way and they got just what looks like an absolute stud in Cooper Flag.

Chad Millman (49:55)

Well, you know, to round it off like to close out the show. Cooper Flag Con caniple is only competition for rookie of the year, but it's going to be Cooper Flag mvp. Probably going to be Shay. Even though you could argue Jokic deserves it for the perennial triple doubles. He just had that stretch where he missed games and Shea hasn't really. And OKC will probably end up with the best record in the NBA. The really interesting matchups could be the long shots. It could be the long shots for Minnesota or some team like Boston or Cleveland to come out of the East. That might be where the most value could be from a betting point of view right now.

Jason Timf (50:37)

Can I actually pitch you a long shot MVP candidate that I like.

Chad Millman (50:41)

You are the NBA maven for the Volume Podcast Network. You can do whatever you want and you should exercise that authority. Gravitas and a number one status.

Jason Timf (50:57)

There's very little shot that Jokic gets it because if he misses two more games, he's disqualified. Yeah, Luca, the team's not good enough and he just hasn't been as good as Shay. Cade's the one guy that I'm like, man 1400 right now in hard rock. Bet. And like, hear me out. This is the case. Detroit's got the best record in the league. They've been the best against the lower level teams. They seem to care more about this regular season. Oklahoma City is very much like, let's just get to the finish line healthy. They're not trying to pursue 70 wins or anything like that. What if Detroit finishes three or four games ahead of OKC in the standings? And then you go to Cade and you're like, okay, this guy's averaging 25, 6 and 10 or whatever it is that he's averaging 26. I think it's 26, 6 and 10. What if he goes up a level the tail end of the season? Because the big knock on him is scoring. Volume's a little low and his efficiency is a little low. He's like 57 true shooting and he's in the mid 20s. If for the next 30 games he averages 29 on 61 true shooting and the Pistons finish three games ahead of OKC, I think he's the MVP and at that point, plus 1400 for an outcome that I think is relatively achievable. And you know, we also have the soft tissue injury for Shea. Like he's got this abdominal injury. He's allegedly coming back after all star, but you never know with that kind of stuff. We've seen, especially with the Orlando Magic stars, that abdominal issues can be a little recurring. So it I just like that as a value play.

Chad Millman (52:30)

I love it. Jason Timf hoops tonight. Bringing value to the show and to the Volume Podcast network. You deserve all your success, brother. Thanks for coming on the show. This has been Sharper Square part of the Volume Podcast Network. Watch or listen on YouTube sharp or square like this video. Subscribe to the channel. Download us from Spotify, Apple pods, wherever you get your pods Rate. Review. Subscribe. Leave us 5 stars. Say whatever we want. Whatever you want. Feedback is a gift. Till next time. Love you.

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Simon Hunter (53:36)

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Commercial Announcer (54:06)

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Simon Hunter (54:36)

This podcast is supported by FX's Love Story, John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bessette, the new limited series from executive producer Ryan Murphy. It explores the complex courtship of the iconic couple considered to be American royalty, whose love story captured the attention of the nation. Their fairytale romance would unfold in front of the public eye, where their private love would also become a national obsession. FX's love story John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bassett watch now on FX, Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers.

Chad Millman (55:06)

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