NFL TRAINING CAMP QUESTIONS with Ben Solak of ESPN

Summary

Sharp or Square – "NFL Training Camp Questions with Ben Solak of ESPN"

Date: July 21, 2026
Host: Chad Millman
Co-host: Simon Hunter
Guest: Ben Solak (ESPN NFL Analyst)

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Episode Overview

This episode marks the true kickoff of the 2026 NFL season on Sharp or Square, as hosts Chad Millman and Simon Hunter welcome NFL analyst Ben Solak (ESPN) for an in-depth discussion about the biggest questions facing teams as training camps begin. The trio dives into analytics, changing team strategies, futures betting, and debates the outlook for key franchises in the 2026 season, including the Rams, Browns, Patriots, and Chiefs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Stat Matters Most When Evaluating QBs?

(04:17-07:10)

• Ben Solak: Emphasizes the importance of EPA (Expected Points Added) per dropback as the baseline metric for evaluating quarterbacks, because it adjusts for down, distance, and game context.

  • Quote: “If you do EPA per dropback—which is just, again, context-adjusted yards—and then if you do success rate… you're getting a pretty good look at how consistent is this guy…and how explosive is this guy in terms of EPA.” (06:36)
  • EPA also captures scramble production—a crucial, previously underrated aspect with today’s mobile quarterbacks.
  • Success Rate tells you what percentage of a QB's plays are positive.

• Simon Hunter: Agrees, noting much recent conversation has been about schematic changes—especially on defense to deal with mobile QBs and the evolution of tight end usage.

  • Copycat league trends: teams adjusting personnel and schemes based on the prior season’s defensive innovations.

2. How Defenses are Responding to New Offenses

(09:13-13:14)

• Ben Solak: NFL defenses are actively rethinking how they rush the passer due to the rise in mobile QBs; more designed containment, more stunts, and an increased use of zone to keep eyes on the QB.

  • The league operates on "styles make fights" and is cyclical with strategy adaptation.

• Regular season metrics (like DVOA) don't always translate to playoff success because postseason games introduce higher variance and unique matchup situations.

• Simon Hunter: The importance of dominant interior defensive linemen (D-tackles) is a growing theme; having forceful inside players has proven vital for recent Super Bowl winners.

3. Rams' Defensive Evolution and Star Power

(13:14-17:34)

• Rams trade for Myles Garrett: Is it about scheme fit or just getting the best player available?

  • Simon: “If you have a chance to get the best player in the world in his prime, you move mountains.”
  • Ben: “Styles make fights until Myles Garrett. At that point, they screw the style.” (15:33)

• The addition of Garrett and possibly the return of Aaron Donald gives the Rams a potentially dominant front, making them favorites in the NFC.

• Notable Moment: The anecdote about how certain offensive linemen (like Gray Zabel) admit to being dominated by under-the-radar defenders like Kobe Turner, showing the league’s depth and complexity.

4. Transition and Uncertainty for the Browns

(18:49-24:06)

• Ben: Likes Browns’ coaching hires but doubts as a true contender due to holes at key positions (QB, OT, WR, Edge apart from corner) and their gamble on unproven or recovering players.

  • “You gotta get me there, right? Corner’s nice, everywhere else…”
  • Points out Deshaun Watson’s recent performances and injuries as major red flags.

• Simon & Chad: Admit to being two years early on the Browns hype, but see value in their long-term drafting and team-building approach despite skepticism from Ben.

  • “If Watson can find what you just talked about—it’s it, what we think is totally gone.” (22:14)

5. Patriots: Regression or Safe Bet for 2026?

(29:51-37:58)

• Chad: Very bearish on New England, skeptical about their 9.5 win total given potential regression, offensive line issues, and internal drama.

• Ben: Sees a path to competitiveness thanks to Vrabel’s leadership and Drake May’s talent. Still, their relatively “not-that-hard” schedule introduces uncertainty.

  • “There’s just too much tentpole power between Vrabel and May…” (30:45)
  • Points out their unusually good run with injuries is unlikely to repeat.

• Simon: Stresses that New England’s easy 2025 schedule helped mask flaws—this year’s difficult opener (Seattle, Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, Buffalo) could expose them quickly.

• Ben (on MVP voting and strength of schedule): “I firmly believe [Drake May] missed MVP because there’s 4 billion accounts now tweeting out strength of schedule stuff...” (34:55-35:44)

  • Mainstream adoption of schedule analytics now influences awards voting and fan narratives.

• Consensus: Patriots are a high-variance, high-drama team to watch, with the fate of the season riding on Drake May’s sophomore leap.

6. Chiefs: Value or Mirage?

(47:31-56:37)

• Simon & Chad: See buying “cheap” on Mahomes as a top value this year, especially with waning hype and skepticism among media and fans.

  • “This is the cheapest we’ve been able to buy PAT stock since his first year as a full-on starter.” (48:10)

• Ben (devil’s advocate): Warns that Kansas City is clearly in a reload phase—moving on from cornerstone defenders and counting on rookies/young players.

  • The offense has become less explosive, increasingly reliant on yak/screens, and the defense hinges on a lot of unproven draft picks.
  • “I just would like to see it before I start actually believing that they’ve turned the ship around that quickly.” (52:47)

• Simon: Stresses that Mahomes’ track record of winning, even with supporting cast churn, can’t be ignored: “Bad, good quarterbacks tend to win in this league.”

• Ben: The Chiefs’ new and improved offensive line could make a real difference—less pressure, more creative offense for Mahomes if the tackles hold up.

7. Quick Hits: Hot Button Issues (Rapid Fire)

(56:45-61:10)

• Jackson Dart/Cam Scadaboo (Giants): Ben is low on Scadaboo’s prospects and only tentatively in on Dart.
• Ravens post-Harbaugh: Ben still sees John Harbaugh as a stabilizing force; without him, Baltimore might get drama-heavy unless new staff shows steady leadership.
• NFC North Predictions:
  • Ben’s (bold) order: Bears, Vikings, Lions, Packers. He’s buying the Vikings and fading the Packers.
  • Quote: “This time next year, we’re going to be asking: Caleb or Josh Allen?” (59:52, on Bears’ Caleb Williams)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Analytics Empowering Modern Analysis:
  • Ben: “For all 5-foot-7 of Ben Solak to be sitting up there on an NFL set at ESPN and trying to speak with authority…we have to have been comfortable with…and assume the idea that people who didn’t play can know a thing or two.” (40:49)
• On Narrative and Awards:
  • Ben: “…the awards are all about narrative. That’s it.” (37:58)
• On Defensive Talent:
  • Simon: “If you have the chance to get the best player in the world in his prime, you move mountains.” (13:40)
• On the Strength of Schedule Craze:
  • Ben: “Six years ago you never heard anybody talk about strength of schedule except for people who were betting on season-long win totals… Last year I’m getting texts from my mom about the Patriots’ strength of schedule.” (35:00)
• On Caleb Williams and the Bears:
  • Ben: “This time next year, we’re going to be asking: Caleb or Josh Allen?” (59:52)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Stat to Rule Them All (EPA, Success Rate): 05:04–07:10
• Changing Defensive Strategies: 09:13–13:14
• Rams add Myles Garrett: 13:14–17:34
• Under-the-radar D-line Dominance: 18:20–18:49
• Cleveland Browns Autopsy: 19:43–24:06
• Patriots Regression Debate: 29:51–37:58
• Chiefs: Reload or Repeat? 47:31–56:37
• Rapid Fire Hot Takes: 56:45–61:10
• NFC North Predictions: 58:42–61:10

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Final Thoughts & Tone

Ben Solak, Simon Hunter, and Chad Millman mix sharp analytics and irreverent banter, combining respect for the data with a gambler’s eye for value and an insider’s sense of league trends. They champion the importance of understanding the “why” behind the numbers, discuss how coaching and roster building ripple across entire seasons, and always return—amid all the stats—to the idea that football’s richest truths often play out in unexpected ways.

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Next episode preview: The annual Top 10 Quarterbacks with Rich Rebar.
Outro: “Feedback is a gift. ’Til next time, love you.” (Chad, 62:12)

Transcript

[Simon Hunter]

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[Chad Millman]

Welcome to Sharper Square presented by Hard Rock Bat. We are part of the Voluum Podcast Network. This is the show that makes the squares sharper and makes the wise guys pay attention. I am Chad Millman. I am joined as always by my co host, my bff, my companion, my compadre professional better Simon Hunter. Hello Simon.

[Simon Hunter]

Chad. We are in the true sports dead period.

[Chad Millman]

I disagree. I completely disagree. Here's why everyone keeps saying that. True sports dead period. Look, there's plenty of baseball number one. I think there's a little bit of a sort of come down because the World cup was so enthralling. But training camps basically begin this week and starting today with this episode until after the Super Bowl. We are not talking about anything other than football. NFL football. We got rookies reporting this week. Camps for all 32 teams will be in full swing by this time next week. It's already been a wild NFL season. We've had free agent trauma. We've had blockbuster trades. The NFL calendar has kept us engaged since the Super Bowl. But now we only have to talk about the really good stuff on the field. So first time guest on the show, I think I name checked him more last year than any other analyst. I think it was down to him and Barnwell. We're going to talk about some of the biggest questions in the NFL season. He's celebrating two years as an NFL analyst at espn. Welcome to the show, Ben Solak.

[Ben Solak]

Thanks, Chad. Appreciate it, brother.

[Chad Millman]

Here's my first question for you and Simon, I want you to answer this too. And I apologize to whoever wrote this or where I saw it. But Ben, maybe it was you. I was reading something about how coaches were breaking down quarterbacks. Maybe it was on ESPN.com and they were sort of ranking their quarterbacks. And someone wrote about how the coaches for the Seahawks were really analyzing success rate for Drake May heading into the Super Bowl. We use success rate a lot. You go deep into the analytics when you're thinking about quarterbacks. Is there a stat that is sort of your baseline barometer? I'm looking at this first.

[Ben Solak]

Yeah. It'll be EPA per drop back, typically. Right. And the number one thing that expected points per drop back is doing is basically just adjusting your yards for a situation. Right. So if we look at, oh, passing hours, old completions. Right. We've all seen those games where, you know, you're watching and this quarterback doesn't got it. He's not pushing the ball down the field. He's not creating, you know, first downs, not creating explosives. Then you check the statue after the game. He completed 65 of his passes for 220 yards. Like, where did this come from? And a lot of it is just eight yard pickups on third and 14 because, you know, Aiden O' Connell was getting the ball out quick. You're like, all right, yeah. But like, you know, defensively, structurally, like, this is not, you know, the defense is fine with this, this allowing. And so EPA lets us adjust yards for context. We know that an eight yard gain on third and five is a lot more valuable than eight yard gain on third and ten. That's basically what it's telling us the other thing that it catches is it catches scramble production, which is really important right in the modern NFL, which is any, you know, passing specific stat that you look at, you're going to be getting passing yardage. But we know that some of these guys are breaking the pocket 10, 12, 15 of the time for Jayden Daniels. And your ability to scramble and when we go and we look back at historical numbers is massively, has been underrated for years. And the league is finally getting to the point where it's encouraging its quarterbacks to cross the line of scrimmage. Because it's not just that you're creating positive yardage. You're and you're, you're gaining, you know, ground, you're getting close to a first down. It's the negative plays you eliminate when you scramble. Most plays that evolve a scramble drill, if they're not ending in an actual scramble with the quarterback crosses the line, they're ending in a late down, high effort throw, right? So we're talking about like, you know, off schedule, throwing 40 yards down the field, the Caleb Williams stuff, or they're usually ending in a sack or a throwaway distinctly negative plays. And so we're taking sacks and low percentage throws off the board and replacing them not even with just like incompletions with actual gains. And, and so EPA is also catching scrambles, which is very valuable. So if you do EPA per drop back, which is just again, context adjusted yards, and then if you do success rate, which is what percentage of your plays are positive, you're getting a pretty good look at how consistent is this guy success rate and then how explosive is this guy in terms of epa. That's going to give you a nice round look at generally how well quarterbacks are performing.

[Chad Millman]

Simon, what's your take on that?

[Simon Hunter]

I agree with it. I would say the big debate this Austin chat, a lot of the conversation is what did the Seahawks defense do so differently, made them so special? And it's all about that safety, right, coming down and the safety either taking the tight end or going with the running back. It sounds simple, but I feel like not even the conversation I've had this offseason is just about that adjustment in this league now of the tweeners, right? It's how can we change the NFL? Because you saw the Rams, right, the Rams doing the double tight end sets. How often do we talk about that chat? Like every week we were getting obsessed about the change in NFL going, the big package, but it's a big Package where you know, you still have these athletic tight ends that can burn these safeties and I feel like that's really been a driving home point of these teams trying to figure out the tweener spot. So yeah, obviously EPA per play, huge, huge deal. And you know, I think we both went into the season last year thinking yes, the Seahawks could be a good defense. We didn't know they're going to be like that, Chad. We didn't know they're going to be a type of defense that was historical. So yeah, I, I would say a lot of conversations I've had this off season is just what is going to be the future of defense because it's copycat league. We, we know that it's these teams last year copied the Eagles, right. They became run first teams. The Seahawks, Kenneth Walker, you know, you could say where they were a past heavy team to start the year. Yeah. Then Sam Donner started leading the league in turnovers and they became a run heavy team. That's not going to be, I think something that's going to go away anytime soon. I think the league's going to keep 10 torning keep you know, that trend of being a run heavy league. I think that's going to continue this upcoming season, Chad, honestly.

[Chad Millman]

All right, so Ben, playing off that EPA for drop back. By the way, last year Drake May led the league in EPA for drop back. I was just looking that up. So can we expect defenses to do something that will make EPA per drop back a harder statistic to be excellent at four quarterbacks and that's what Seattle seemed to be able to do as the playoffs went on?

[Ben Solak]

Yeah, it's a little bit right. Like you know, they're not going to do something to make you paper drop back worse they might do things make quarterbacks worse than whether or not gets right in the stat. Right. The first thing that immediately comes to mind is we have adjusted a lot of how we've rushed to the passer in the NFL as we've seen scramble rates leap right. And back in the day, man, before those guys down get into, you know, get into a gap, let's get up fields affect the pocket. It's Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees back there. These guys ain't moving right. We know where they're going to be and we know that if we get to them we can pretty dramatically affect their game. Now when you see the best rushers, right. And kind of there's exceptions to every rule. You know, Jim Schwartz with the Browns was still doing the Same old, same old. 2025 is working pretty good. You know, there's exceptions to every rule. But in general when you start thinking about your Brian Flores is and your Vance Josephs and some d' amico Ryan's is and some of these guys who've had extremely successful defenses and pressure rates over the last couple of years, we're talking about guys who build pass rushes such that we are expecting the quarterback to move. We were going to try to flush him a certain direction and then we're going to be there waiting for him. Right? The Rams before they had Garrett were they led the league in stunt rate. They're in more stunts on the defense line. Anybody in football. And they would use Verse as just a wrecking ball, right versa like a top 10 pressure rate, bottom four sack rate. We're not trying to get sacks of Jared Verse. We're trying to break the integrity of the pocket. We trying to fold and collapse one side of this pocket in so we know where the quarterback will flush. And then we're going to have a looper follow him that way. We're going to have a blitzer follow him that way. He's going to be waiting for him. So the more you scramble, the less I'm going to build a traditional four man rush and the more I'm going to be oriented on expecting you to move and then containing you when we do. We also see things like zone coverage increase when we see more scrambling quarterbacks in the league. Because zone coverage plays with eyes on the quarterbacks. Once he breaks, I can see him as opposed to in man cover, which I have my eyes on the receiver. If that quarterback breaks the pocket, I don't know. And all of a sudden he's across line of scrimmage. He's eight yards down the field before I realize anything happens. And so styles make fights and the league kind of operates on a pendulum, right? We are seeing right now so many, okay, Sean McVay inspired offenses. All this pre snap motion, all this, you know the ball's getting snapped with two seconds left on the play clock, right? Because this pre snap operations take so much time. So then you have moments like the Broncos. So the Broncos are taking play calling away from Sean Payton, giving it to Davis Webb and what are they talking about? We want to be able to go faster. You want to be able to get line of scrimmage and snap it, right? Think about what Brian Schottenheimer did for Dak this last year was so good. They were snapping the ball with like 12, 13 seconds left on the play clock. Because Dak doesn't need pre snap motion to undress the defense. He's been doing this for a decade. He's smart cookie. So, okay, everybody's zigging this way. We're going to zag and we're going to be a team that just lines up, no motion. Snap the ball. Dax going to make you wrong post snap and you're not going to know when our snap is coming. Unlike when you play these, you know, Ben Johnson offenses and these Mikey Daniel offenses where you don't have to react to anything until it's like four seconds left on the play clock. Because all I can until you actually get down to brass tacks. So there's, there's styles that make fights and there's general trends in the league. Our hope is that our stats like ebay for drop back and success rate are good enough to kind of see the forest through the trees. But heck, you know, that's what we said about quarterback rating 10 years ago. And now we're not using that as much. We're using some of the other stuff. You know, NFL analytics are a very slow moving process as opposed to some other games where you feel like, you know, there were kind of these flashpoint moments where things got solved. Never really going to happen in the league.

[Simon Hunter]

To piggyback off a. Ben just said, Chad, it's what something else we talked about the D line. Think about the last two super bowl winners, how important their D tackles were, how that just disrupted anything any team's going to do. Having two inside guys dominant right now in the NFL, it's been changing everything. It doesn't really matter so much having a star name on the outside like it's. You tell me the two best passers on Seattle Seahawks. Most casual fans cannot because they were such a cohesive unit. And those 2D tackles, them were so important. Like they just. The quickest point to the quarterback will always be up the middle. And you've seen this shift the NFL once again.

[Tab Ramos]

Yeah.

[Ben Solak]

If you're gonna play the run from too high and you're playing light boxes and you don't have dudes at defensive tackle, it's made up. That's not real. That's not a world you can exist in. Right. So like it's, oh, we're gonna live in a too high world. All right, you better have dudes between the tackles. Otherwise you can't win those extra gaps. The math doesn't work.

[Chad Millman]

So then the Rams, you know, styles make fights. The Rams look at their opportunity to get Miles Garrett. Is that because they think they need it to fit the style and it just happens to be Myles Garrett or is Mild Garrett, Miles Garrett breaking the mold and they go to get him because it can completely change the dynamic of what they're doing. Simon, you start.

[Simon Hunter]

Yeah. If you have the chance to get the best player in the world in his prime, you move mountains. And that's what they did. Like their whole defense. Everything they did is super bowl right? Get McDuffie. There's the, the moves they made this off season. I just. You can't get over how great of a GM less than he is.

[Ben Solak]

Right?

[Chad Millman]

The.

[Simon Hunter]

We all know this, right? This is a guy that can totally revamp this team. Got rid of golf, went all in on Stafford and got his super bowl ring. And then, you know, we, we joke. Chad. Remember they were 6 win team before the season. Me and you took the Rams over six wins. I think it was like three years ago. And you know these people are like, well, they're done. This is going to be in between period. Staff will probably retire in a year or two. Now here we are four years later. They are the odds on huge favorite and they have the MVP from last year, the defensive MVP and the Aaron Donald stuff. Everyone you talk to inside that building, it's not a foregone conclusion that he's coming back next week, but he, it's like a foreign conclusion. He'll be back this season. Like the way they're talking about, it's. It's all about Aaron getting his body right. So I, I keep talking to guys, other professionals. It's like, okay, even if he's not the number one D tackle in football, if he's number 11 or 12, you have the 12th best D tackle in football with Miles Garrett on the outside getting doubled. That means one of them is going to get singled up. I just, I still can't wrap my head around that he might actually be coming back. The boogeyman is coming back to football. So I, I can't get over how this, this Rams team took their biggest weakness, which was that defense last year, that Sam Darnold playoff game. Chad, me and you talked about that nauseam like that was. You know, unless he was in that box watching that game being like, okay, offense is good. This defense, this is a huge, huge problem. So I, I just love it so much because we, all we do is talk about how he less need. My God, it's.

[Ben Solak]

Yeah, it's.

[Simon Hunter]

It's his award to win this Year GM of the year. So it's, it's on the table for this team.

[Ben Solak]

Yeah, styles make fights until smiles, Garrett. At which point they screw the style. You know, what are we talking about? Elite talent is elite talent. And 23 sacks is 23 sacks. I. It's funny because I think that there's a, there's a diminishing returns nerd voice in my head that's like, you were already a top 10 defense by DVOA. How much more additional kind of, you know, et cetera, whatever, whatever can you get? And then there's the reminder that playoff football is just so different than regular season football. We love our season long regular season stats. Oh, the dvoa. The Rams are generally pretty good. You need to win three games in a row against elite teams. All three of those teams are going to look a little bit different. Actually. They're probably going to look really dramatically different. The league is decently varied in terms of how we're building things out. And we play best of ones in the league. We don't play best of sevens. You got a nice big healthy DVOA that other team doesn't. But you turn the ball over three times, you know, so you just need to have so many redundancies, so many answers. When it comes to postseason football, got to be able to play a dramatic different style of games. Then you also have to have field tipping players. Right? The best way to win in the postseason is to have more guys than their math can figure out for you. Right? That was the thing about Mike McDonald. Not Super bowl run for the Seahawks is just that felt like every single game he was able to get enough of a solution. Right. Make enough of the math work. The Rams despite the skin of their teeth. But you know, they've been down that path a couple of times with them before, so you can feel at least confident you can get that win. And so yeah, Garrett, Trent, McDuffie, these are field tipping players and allow their bags to be a lot more deep on defense. Right? I guess the Rams are very heavy stunt team, very heavy zone team. So they kind of were their category. They were their nature, right? Like their corner play would get them in trouble against the Panthers multiple times because the Panthers have skyscrapers at receiver, right? And they just had Kobe Durant, who doesn't want to live through contact. Kobe Durant's an off cover, corner zone cover. He doesn't want to be in Trent McMillan. Ted Ron McMillan. Excuse me, his back pocket, like that's an uncomfortable spot for him. You have McDuffie, you have Jalen Watson. You can play different modes and different styles. Now standing with Garrett in the rush. So it makes the Rams a lot deeper in the postseason. That means they're going by 10, means

[Simon Hunter]

they're going to win by one.

[Ben Solak]

Because that's the nature of NFL postseason games.

[Chad Millman]

Well, when you're thinking about postseason, that's a great point. Look, people right now might start thinking about betting futures, right? And Simon just said it. Rams are odds on favorites. And then it's going to be Seattle and then it's Buffalo and then it's Kansas City and it's going to be Philadelphia, and it's going to be all the same contenders. The Rams clearly subscribing to man beats style when man gets punched in the face by Miles Garrett. And also less need seeing his. His defense got a little. A little banged up as the playoffs went on. There was this great interview with Gray Zabel the other day. The Seahawks off.

[Ben Solak]

Yeah, yeah, I saw this.

[Chad Millman]

Talking about how the Rams defensive line just got a little banged up and some guys couldn't finish the game. And so I can't remember the name of the D tackle who could be Turner. Kobe Turner.

[Ben Solak]

That's right. Yeah. There's nothing I love more than when like, NFL, you know, they're talking to NFL players and they're like, man, Miles Garrett, Daniel 100 Williams. And they're like, dude, Kobe Turner ruins me, my life, dude. It's so like, it's in styles, make fights. Gray's able. Like, whatever it is that Kobe's doing, I'm not used to dealing with. And I don't like it. Like, every NFL player has one of those guys.

[Chad Millman]

I thought it was so charming. Like, he was so honest about this guy, just dominating him and there's nothing he can do about it. And Lesnie is probably in the. In the press box, like in his suite watching that and thinking, I got to get through three straight games. Who are my playmakers? That's a great point. Flip side, Cleveland Browns got rid of Miles Garrett. They got a new coach. We don't know who their quarterback is going to be. They got like Kevin Stefanski. He's out. What do we think? Simon and I have been talking about the Cleveland Browns more than any team deserves to be talked about in an off season show, which they really have no reason to. We have no reason to believe they'll be impactful at all. But we can't quit the Cleveland Browns. Give us your take on the Cleveland Browns.

[Ben Solak]

Right? I like a lot of where they ended up coaching wise. I've always been a fan of Todd Monken. Monken does different things for different quarterbacks, different offensive systems. Like, you know, he's very, you know, coach to the players you've got, which is good. Mike Rutenberg there is the new DC for stepping in for Schwartz's shoes. An impossible job. There's nobody who's equipped to do that. If you made me tag one guy like Rutenberg is, is he was the passing game coordinator with the Falcons. He's under Jeff Ulbrich and Robert Sala. He runs a very simple menu of coverages kind of the same way that Jim Schwartz did. You want to let our guys line up and play. They're oriented on a four man rush, oriented on speed, but they're willing to blitz a little bit. He's a really like dynamic, kind of impactful lightning rod sort of a guy, which I think if you have a criticism for Schwartz is that is very grumpy and, and, you know, kind of not really raw. Ross, boom, boom. The guys. So Rudy will be good for the young guys. So there's I, I don't mind where they ended up. From a coaching perspective, first thing I'm going to do when I'm figuring out if I want to put my horse behind a team preseason is I want to list out elite positions and take a look at where you're at. Right, Quarterback, offensive tackle, wide receiver, edge corner. Right. Those are my elite spots. Let's see where you're at. Corner's nice. Everywhere else you got, you got to get me there, right. I like a little bit of their depth on the defensive line. I've always liked Alex Wright, you know, who was kind of the running mate there for Garrett for a long time and now they adverse.

[Tab Ramos]

All right.

[Ben Solak]

I've always been a little bit lower than the market on Verse. Just because he's not a sack creator, he's a disruptor, but he's not going to get the quarterback down. You need somebody else to do that. Offensive tackle. You know, we got the rookie and fauna. We got Titus Howard from the Texans. You're not going to get me there. Wide receiver. I mean, I have not been there on Jerry Judy for 10 years now at this point. And I like both about Boston and Concepcion coming out of college. But again, we're kind of putting our horsepower on rookies here. That's before we even get to quarterback, which I mean, like, you know, the numbers on DeSean Watson's 20, 24 are historically bad out of like over 700 quarterbacks. He's 91st percentile, I should say, like adjusting net yards per drop back and explosive play rate and drop back success rate and everything. And then he's torn to Achilles since then. Right? That's what people forget. People think that he was bad off off the Achilles. No, no, he, he was bad then popped the Achilles, then couldn't come back because he popped the Achilles a second time. So it was between that or Shador Sanders. Like, I think that Stefanski did a much better job coloring in the margins of that offense last year than even people realize. And I'm not sure that even if I like Monk and what he's been for offensive, he's going to be able to do much of the same. So you can't, I don't know where you guys are at in the Browns. You're going to struggle to get me on that train.

[Simon Hunter]

We're two years early. I just love the way they, I, I, I just, I, I just love the way they've drafted. Our whole view is they're 201 for Super Bowl. If Watson can find what you just talked about, it's it what we think is totally gone.

[Ben Solak]

I can't believe I just heard the Brown super bowl odds mentioned unironically, by the way.

[Chad Millman]

We've mentioned them. We've mentioned five times.

[Ben Solak]

I know we both, it can't be there. This is the problem with, the problem with sports, man. You can't be doing this because if

[Simon Hunter]

you come to me, you say, hey, you want to bet Eagles to beat the Browns at 301, I'm gonna take that bet. I can't help myself. The odds are too good. But I, I agree. It's the, the odds of the Browns obviously making a runner so slim. I just can't get over how great of a drafting team they are right now. Like, you look at their, you look what they did last year and what they did this past draft. And if these guys project out playing pretty well, the Browns could be an absolute juggernaut if they can find a cure quarterback and Deshaun Watson, if he's not the answer, I really think it's a perfect scenario for them. Like, you know, bring him in, bring in Sanders. Tough Division 3, 4 wins. That's if I'm a Browns fan. That's my dream right now because next year's draft class, I'm sure Ben knows you're really going to close your eyes and throw a dart. And it feels like one of those classes that if you hit big Next year you're going to hit on a franchise guy and if you miss, dude, you're the Browns. You've missed every. I mean, Baker was your one hit and you freaking ran him out of town. So when I just look at that organization, it's just like I feel like in there in the can't lose position and their GMs kind of playing it that way where it's like he's taking these high risk in the draft and they're hitting, man, like these guys, he keeps taking that. You know, you might have some question about their character, injury, history. It's all looking good for me. So. Yes, Chad, I think we're a year or two early here, but it's like our Carolina Panthers love. People thought we were crazy how much love. We love the Panthers. Look at us last year, dancing on everyone's graves. Chad. So it'll work out. It might just take a year or two.

[Ben Solak]

Respectable playoff loss, being flagged as a win. Unbelievable. Believable.

[Chad Millman]

I Simon, I wish we could do sort of dynasty drafts for futures bets and get, get the Browns at 200 to 1 today because we know we're ahead of them and get that locked in for, you know, 2029. That would be it. That's.

[Ben Solak]

That's something market listening to this right now, right? I was gonna say that's a good idea.

[Simon Hunter]

I know a guy, Chad, that does take that kind of action if you want to get some money down on that.

[Chad Millman]

So I feel like you and I need to get a piece of that action. That's what we need to do. Let's do a quick word from Hard Rock. Maybe they can come up with that and get it posted before we get back on the other side. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock BET Sportsbook. Some folks call this the slow period until football season. But on Hard Rock bat, we call it baseball season. There's a full slate almost every day to bet on building up the same game. Part parlays and even live betting Every inning however you like to play ball, Hard Rock Bet has you covered. So if you're ready to step into the batter's box, sign up with Hard Rock Bet today and place a five dollar bet. If it wins, you bet 150 in bonus bets on top of your winnings. That's right, an extra 150 in your account. Plus Hard Rock Bet gives you new promos every single day. We're talking no sweat bets, profit boost, bonus bets and more. Open Hard Rock Bet now and see what you've got today. And sure Hard Rock Bet is Florida's only legal sports book, but you don't have to be in Florida to join the party. Hard Rock Bet is also live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado and Michigan, with more states on the way. So download Hard Rock Bet and swing for the fences today. Payable and bonus bets Not a cash offer offered by the Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital LLC and all other states must be 21 or over and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee or Virginia. To play. Terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida, call 1-833-Playwise in Indiana, if you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-809 with it in Arizona, Ohio and Virginia, call 1-800-my reset gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler in Colorado, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey and Tennessee vibe coding is everywhere right now, but it's not just for apps anymore. Now it's making its way into website creation. WIX has introduced Wix Harmony, a Vibe coder for websites that lets you type what you want and and generate a site ready to use right away, complete with forms, payments, security and more built in. And wix Harmony doesn't require AI for everything. You can still click and edit anything manually or select an element and have Aria, your AI agent, make updates for you. It's a smart solution to the frustration of repeatedly prompting AI just to make small changes. Try it for [e-mail]. that's Wix.

[Tab Ramos]

This is Tab Ramos from Inside American Soccer and this summer Topgolf is turning into the ultimate soccer destination. They're not just throwing games on in the background. Topgolf is going all in on soccer. They've got a new soccer themed game you can play with your group, special in venue activations, exclusive food and drink items inspired by the global game and at more than 60 locations. There's they've even installed full size soccer goals so you can try to hit golf balls right into the net and every match all summer long will be on throughout the venue. So it's a great place to watch with friends, hang out, compete a little bit and enjoy the atmosphere. And if you want to keep the fun going all summer, you can get the topgolf Summer Fun Pass which lets you play every single day and bring up to five guests every visit. Get yours [e-mail] FunPass Summer hits different at TopGolf.

[Tony Ayo]

This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rents going up? Streaming services are going up? Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Will this go up soon?

[Simon Hunter]

Game.

[Tony Ayo]

Because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement, some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts I.

[Simon Hunter]

I can't stop scratching my downtown. Mm, yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud.

[Tony Ayo]

There's no question too embarrassing. For Amazon Health AI, chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Healthcare just got less painful.

[Chad Millman]

All right, Ben, we started talking about Seattle and New England. Simon and I. Me more than Simon. I think Simon agrees with me and I don't want to, but we've talked about New England a little bit. I'm a big fade on New England this year. They're still. Their win total is nine and a half and it's. It's juice to the over. It's minus 145 to the over. We can say they're getting a first place schedule, but it's not like the most difficult first place.

[Ben Solak]

Yeah.

[Chad Millman]

Schedule. They got A.J. brown. I just feel like there's going to be a regression and I don't know that they fixed everything on their offensive line. And who knows what the lingering drama is going to be from sort of the Rossini Vrabel scenario. Give us your take on New England. Because I'm a fade.

[Ben Solak]

Yeah. The only thing that's keeping me from feeling like confidently in a fade is the fact that the schedule isn't actually that hard right you expect, you know, oh, easiest schedule in the world last year. It's going to, you know, crash back down. Like preseason projections have it like 12th right by Vegas, you know, win totals and so. All right, like I could. This is still a really well balanced team's got talent all three levels. We know going back from even Rabel's days with the Titans. Rabels teams typically like, don't really bottom out right when they're going through bad stretches and okay, like they're not the same team that they were. They still like, you know, they, they play top contenders really well and they play those games close. And so, you know. All right, nine and a half juice to the over. I think the Patriots are like a tennis win team. So. Okay, I would want to be there on under nine and a half. It doesn't feel like one I want to run to because of the respect I have for Rabel. And then I've, I've, I've been a May guy since he came out of unc. I thought the rookie season was, you know, so strong. It was just underneath, you know, an incredible Jaden Daniel season, rightfully so. But there just wasn't a lot of visibility on it because they were like a three win team. But maywith making a lot of chicken salad out of, you know what in year one, Brable installs just some professional professionalism into the building and all of a sudden, you know, we're leading the league and deep passing production with Case on booty. Right. And now we get that A.J. brown, Romeo Dobbs to it. So there's, there's just too much of like tentpole power between Brable and May for me to be running to the under. I do think that I'm going to lean under on them. They were one of the best last year in terms like adjusted games lost. Right. They were generally pretty healthy as the year went on. That's probably going to regress down the line is the one where like I, Will Campbell got absolutely cooked in the postseason. He was coming off of an injury. I thought rookie Will Campbell, pre injury had a lot more. Okay, you know, this guy's gonna figure it out. To him, I've always been a beer attacker guy. I like Jared Wilson. I love him at center a lot more than a guard. And so the line is one to me that like that line Stevenson plus Henderson, I wouldn't be surprised if they're better running the football than people realize. And then you can win some games on run plus defense as well because they like, you know, that running attack didn't do much for them last year. I expect that to be a pretty. Pretty improved unit.

[Simon Hunter]

Yeah, I think.

[Chad Millman]

Yeah.

[Simon Hunter]

Basically needed taking that next step. Right. If he does, there'll be a playoff team again. They should. They should do pretty well. But I do want to. Patriots fans understand the schedule thing. It's. I know they get so upset about it. It's a real thing. Last year we talked about a very easy schedule this year. Next year you start with Seattle, Pittsburgh, Jacksonville and the Buffalo Bills, which are four playoff teams from the previous year. Like, that's not just a walk in the park to start your season. That's a really tough. Okay, veteran teams, they're going to test this new team and they have a stretch in the middle of the season because they play the NFC North. They get Green Bay, Detroit, a bye week. Then they come back to at Chargers, Buffalo and Minnesota, then at the Chiefs. Like, that's in the middle of their season as well. So I told you, they have a really four tough stretch to start the year. Then middle of the season, they have really tough six games. Games. They didn't have anything close to that last year. They had the Bills and then just a bunch of crap for about three, four weeks, then the Bills again and then a bunch of crap for three, four weeks and, oh, let's mix in the Bucks here and there. It's like they just had a really, really light schedule last year or this year. It just feels like, okay, we're gonna find out pretty quick. Is Drake May what everyone says he is, a top 10 quarterback after one year or was it just okay they arrived so soon? Because insane coaching, like, you can't ask for a better head coach and Rabel and a better coordinator. Right. Like your offensive coordinator with him. You know, we talk about all the super bowl rings he has in Joshua Daniels and it's just like, okay, this is a team that, you know, they. They put it together. Staff, wise, craft. What we talk about great ownership. He did that last year. Have they done it in the draft? Right. The defense, we think they're great. The question is going to be the offensive line. Can Will Campbell. Was it all injuries like we just talked about? So it's another team. Like, there's a list of teams. I'm so excited about their storylines coming to the season. They're at the top. It's like make us eat our words. Like, we just. People hated on them all. All season last year about their schedule and they were proven right. And they made a ton of money saying that. So I can't wait to see what they're going to be this season because they have all the elements to be a 13 win team, like a weak division, ton of talent offensively, defensively. It's all on Drake May. It really is.

[Ben Solak]

I have a Patriots schedule. Take that. I've been looking for a place to debut and I feel like this is a good pod for it, which is that I think Drake May wins the MVP last year. Sports gambling is never legalized in the United States because. And like you guys probably talked like I talked to like a, probably a wider range of people. You guys probably talk to a lot more like people who are in, in sports gambling. Six years ago you never heard anybody talk about strength of schedule except for people who are betting on season long win totals, right? We were, we were the only people who were engaging with, okay, Vegas strength of schedule right up until like two years ago. We were still doing strength of schedule based off last year's win totals, right? In terms of like modern, you know, mainstream discourse, last year I'm getting texts from my mom about the Patriots strength of schedule, right? She's a Jets fan and so she hates Patriots and so you know, she's telling the Patriots are in this paper tiger. You know, Drake May, whatever May missed MVP by one first place vote to Stafford last year. And I firmly believe it's because there's 4 billion accounts now tweeting out strength of schedule stuff off of Vegas win totals because that's how you know the average fan is consuming football right now. Relative to six years ago you would not have heard Jack about the Patriots defensive DVOA schedule face and Drake May probably just would have won MVP over Matthew Stafford. So it kills me how it feels like a lot of people are really interfacing with a week strength of season long strength of schedule for like the first time in their football watching careers with this 2025 Patriots team. And I think a lot of people don't know how to like calibrate to it and I think we saw that a little bit in the May MVP voting last year.

[Chad Millman]

I think that's a brilliant take.

[Ben Solak]

I like, I'm not sure I believe it. It feels very Bill Simmonsy to me. But I like it. I feel proud. The fact that I authored it, I

[Chad Millman]

think it's a brilliant take and I don't disagree. You saw about strength of schedule every single week. But I also believed it and I banked on it in the playoffs that this was not a team that was going to stack up and play its best football against teams that were really, really good. And, and we saw that, by the way. Like, we saw that in the playoffs. They, they had that game against the Texans that was so weather impacted. Then they had the game against the Broncos where Bo Nicks didn't play and they still didn't.

[Ben Solak]

And tons of weather impact in that one too.

[Chad Millman]

Right. And they, and they didn't dominate that game. And then that game against Seattle was basically over in the first half, even though Seattle hadn't blown them out yet. So I don't disagree at all with your take. I think it's. I think it's 100% spot on. What's interesting to me is the Matthew Stafford debate. To me, it's about narrative. And these are all elements that feed into narrative over the course of a season. Strength of schedule is coming from the media, right? Everyone in the media is putting out strength of schedule as an, as an impact for why you shouldn't like the Patriots to go deep in the playoffs. And that's what the fans are picking up on. And that becomes the narrative around these awards. Because the narrative. The awards are all about narrative. That's it.

[Ben Solak]

And also Drake's. Drake's gonna have another chance to win MVP with Stafford at fella. All right. Gotta get him as well, because that's the narrative. Always a big part of it.

[Chad Millman]

That's the narrative. That was it. That was totally it. But that's a. It's a great take. I'm with you 100%.

[Simon Hunter]

We definitely win. It was probably 20, 23. The hardest me and Chad ever went to the schedule and made a ton of. Ton of money for us was the year the Eagles collapsed. We basically saw the DBOA numbers, all those numbers at 22. Three of this Eagles team had an easy schedule and they were not at. What were they? 11 and 1 or 10 and 1. At the time it was like, this is not the best in the NFL. We need to start fading these guys. I think me and you Chat won seven straight weeks. Yeah, yeah, we did betting against the Eagles because of strength of schedule and just all the underlying data. So I'm with you, Ben. We've. We've over adjusted the public opinion in somewhat. But as better as it's like, oh God, I love it. Thank you. Please people drink our kool Aid because it does matter. All these things. We talk all the time. It's not just a one unified thing. It's all that matters. Right? All the different numbers, all the different datas and the schedule is part of that. So I'm with you. If we have we overreacted too much to it, I'm willing to see it. If, like Drake May, I want him to make me. Make me eat my words. Because it's like we. We want someone to go out there and just show it to us. Right? It's. It's easy to do it during the regular season. You see, in the playoffs, it's just a different beast. You've seen the numbers, Ben. He had arguably the worst player performance ever by a quarterback in our lifetime in the playoffs. So he's. He's seen those numbers. He's apparently put his crazy amount of work in this off season. I can't wait to see what Drake May comes out and does because was. He should have been MVP last year. In a different world, of course, but I think once all the playoffs started, we were just like, oh, my God, we just dodged a huge, huge mistake. Thank God Matthew Stafford won MVP last year.

[Chad Millman]

Ben, do you think you're even writing about football if not for the development of advanced analytics and all of us sort of turning these numbers into. Into something that examines the game in an entirely different way?

[Ben Solak]

No shot. Yeah, I think I, like, I did not understand. I didn't know anything about, like, what football analysis could be and what the work was until I got to college, because we didn't. I didn't grow up in a house that, like, had ESPN the channel, right? Like, we didn't get, like, you know, my dad didn't get, like, fantasy football magazines for the house. And so I got to college and I was like, the pinnacle of NFL coverage is Bill Cower in a turtleneck on the CBS Sports halftime show being like, they got to run it more jb. Like, that was it. Like, they. It just didn't get better than that. And then when I was in college, I, you know, had enough money to buy like, you know, 499 subscriptions to, you know, ESPN Premium or whatever it would be. But, like, learned about Barnwell, learned about me, and I learned about, like, Pablo Torre at the time was running ESPN Mag, and it blew my. My socks off.

[Chad Millman]

Hold on, hold on. I was fucking running ESPN the Magazine.

[Ben Solak]

Yeah, but you. You didn't write stuff. I mean, the little names of the bylaw.

[Chad Millman]

Okay, well, you just said running. And I just want to be very clear. I hired Pablo. I was the editor in chief of

[Ben Solak]

the magazine, and I'm very grateful for the magazine, and so thank you for that recognition. Yes. And so that's when I Like, you know, I started, you know, doing it for fun in college and it kind of became a career from there. But for the work that I thought was interesting, which is, you know, to what degree can we actually figure out how good Drake May is relative to his receivers, relative to his offensive line, relative to his schedule? Like, how much can we actually get this out of context? For that work to be even digestible for a fan, it had to have been done previously by somebody else who, you know, had a much longer tenure and, you know, a proof of concept as an analyst. And that was right, the guys who came before me. And so for, you know, all 5 foot 7 of Ben Solak to be sitting up there on an NFL, you know, set at ESPN and trying to speak with authority, we have to have been comfortable with and assume the idea that people who didn't play can know a thing or two and can explain a thing or two. And so very grateful to Chad Millman and the ESPN the Mag. I will be sure to put your name first when I tell that story moving forward in the future.

[Chad Millman]

Oh, my God, you're so welcome. You didn't even have to. You know what? You didn't even have to say that. That was just incredibly gracious. Let's do a quick word from Zbiotics because then I want to talk about a couple more teams. Matt, summer's almost here. Beautiful weather, long days, cocktails on the patio. Also, we both know that after a few stiff drinks, we don't bounce back like we used to. Sometimes we've had to choose between a great night or a great next day. But that was before Matt. We tried pre alcohol zbiotics. Pre Alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered Probiotic, invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break down this byproduct. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Matt, as long as we've been talking about Zbiotics and pre alcohol, you've been a big fan, isn't that right? That's right. I'm spending my own money on this product. It is lovely.

[Simon Hunter]

Highly recommend it whether you live in

[Chad Millman]

the drinking estate, in the Union, like Wisconsin, or anywhere else. Highly recommend it.

[Simon Hunter]

It's these little bottles. You knock them back, you feel your

[Chad Millman]

best the next day. Couldn't recommend it more. All right, well listen, go to zbiotics.com sharpersquare to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use Sharper Square at checkout. Zebiotics is backed with 100% money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com sharp or square and use the code Sharp or Square at checkout for 15% off. Vibe coding is everywhere right now, but it's not just for apps anymore. Now it's making its way into website creation. WIX has introduced WIX Harmony, a vibe coder for websites that lets you type what you want and generate a site ready to use right away, complete with forms, payments, security and more built in. And WIX Harmony doesn't require AI for everything. You can still click and edit anything manually or select an element and have Aria, your AI agent, make updates for you. It's a smart solution to the frustration of repeatedly prompting AI just to make small changes. Try it for [e-mail] that's wix.com this

[Tab Ramos]

is Tab Ramos from Inside American Soccer and this summer Topgolf is turning into the ultimate soccer destination. They're not just throwing games on in the background. Topgolf is going all in on soccer. They've got a new soccer themed game you can play with your group, special in venue activations, exclusive food and drink items inspired by the global game and at more than 60 locations. They've even installed full size soccer goals so you can try to hit golf balls right into the net. And every match all summer long will be on throughout the venue. So it's a great place to watch with friends, hang out, compete a little bit and enjoy the atmosphere. And if you want to keep the fun going all summer, you can get the topgolf Summer Fun Pass, which lets you play every single day and bring up to five guests every visit. Get yours [e-mail] FunPass Summer hits different at TopGolf.

[Tony Ayo]

This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up, streaming services are going up, even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Will this go up soon? Game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life. Meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you. Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s and when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement. Some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up, or only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. Amazon Health AI presents Painful thoughts I

[Simon Hunter]

I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud.

[Tony Ayo]

There's no question too embarrassing For Amazon Health AI chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Healthcare just got less painful.

[Chad Millman]

All right. I feel like. What are you laughing at?

[Ben Solak]

The message from Mitch in the chat.

[Chad Millman]

Oh, was it obnoxious?

[Ben Solak]

He said huge credit to Pablo Torres magazine. Leadership.

[Chad Millman]

Yeah, exactly. Isn't a Pulitzer enough? Does he need credit for everything?

[Simon Hunter]

Probably is.

[Chad Millman]

Jesus Christ. All right.

[Simon Hunter]

We have not careful or Pablo's about to find out something about you.

[Ben Solak]

I live in constant fear of it, brother. Constant fear of it.

[Chad Millman]

I do not want Pablo digging into my past. No way, no how. When we haven't talked about the Chiefs at all. And you know there's rumors that Patrick Mahomes was dancing it up at the Taylor Swift Travis Kelsey wedding. It's. It's been relatively quiet about his rehab. Maybe we're going to find out during training camp that he's going to be back to start the season. We really don't know. Simon give Ben sort of our take on the Chiefs right now as a value based team so then Ben can tell us if he agrees with us.

[Simon Hunter]

Yeah, this is the cheapest we would We've been able to buy PAT stock since his first year is a full on starter so it's. I think he's gonna same view of us as a better we look for the value when everyone's talking Chargers or Denver. It's. It's definitely time to shift your view to the Chiefs. Right? It's Going to be another year of Ken Spags turn, you know, just a crap young talent on that defense into a Super bowl caliber defense and people can doubt him. The same man with four super bowl rings though, or maybe five. Spags is just this brilliant defensive mind that doesn't give enough credit just because Andy Mahomes, right, That's where we go as, as fans of football, you always go the offense, but that, that to me is gonna be the big deal, right? What does that defense look like? And you know, you've seen this. The Chiefs, they've not hit home runs in the draft, right? And that's kind of shown up Rice worthy. You've needed to fill these voids from the Tyre kill and the Travis Kelsey aging out. They just have not done so offensively. And the GM said, okay, well, we'll go get Kenneth Walker then we'll try to revamp this offense to see if we can do something different. And I just, I view Mahomes, yes, it's a little nerve wracking check because his mobility is what makes him so special, right. It's an underrated part of my homes. He doesn't run to the playoffs. When he does do it, it's magical. Like the stuff he pulls out of his ass and the playoffs using his legs, it's incredible. But I just can't get over how they're just left for dead by everybody. I mean, pro betters are still on them, but you just. The shows you watch on tv. And I think Ben might be the same way. Where I don't want to. I don't want to consume too much stuff during the season, but before the season I want to consume as much as I possibly can because I'm always worried about stealing people's dicks.

[Tony Ayo]

It's.

[Simon Hunter]

It's a weird thing in this business. I just want to be stepping other people's thought processes. But I am interested here what people's views are heading this season. It's like, what is the general public doing right now? They are left for dead. Even our cohort, Colin Coward is leaving. He's talking about, we've already had the best Mahomes years. It's already passed on. It's like, my God, don't think this way, Colin. It's like the, the brains and the body, that's what has to catch up, right? He already already had the body and the athleticism. His brain though, that's what keeps improving so much is just. He's an artist on the field. The place he pulls out just using his left hand switching to his right hand. Like the stuff he does with the ball. It's incredible. Mahomes. So yeah, I would love to get Ben's going to where maybe we're drinking too much of the Kool Aid. But it's just like isn't this when we're supposed to buy on the Chiefs? It's like everyone thinks yeah, he might be a little slow to start the year. There's zero chance Mahomes misses a game. This is the ultimate competitor in sports. So yeah, I just really cannot wait for this team in Denver, obviously Monday Night Football.

[Ben Solak]

Here's, here's my, here's my devil's advocate. Isn't this but very evidently the year where they're reloading like they, they, they trade Trent McDoffee something they don't necessarily have to do. They led Jaylen Watson walking free agency. Okay. They make the Kenneth Walker signing the Chiefs running back room with Pacheco and Hunt was simply as fast as we are.

[Simon Hunter]

Right.

[Ben Solak]

Like it was. They had the lowest explosive run rate on running back carries last year of the century. Right. And in 2024 is the third lowest of the century. So they just say that okay, we're going to add Kenneth Walker to the building. Running backs are fairly cheap. We are all draft and develop on defense. And this is where. Right. You're right. Spags deserve so much more credit. And if you ask any Chiefs fan, if you ever tell a Chiefs fan, hey, you guys lost, you know, Brian Cook a safety. He was a good safety. The Bengals gave him money. It might be tough to replace them. They just immediately like well, Spags one time took a sixth round of safety. Yes, no, I know like he's extremely good at this, but you don't generally want to be hanging the entire defensive strength off of. Right. A third round second year corner and Noel Williams going to be fighting for a starting job. Jaden Hicks is a fourth round safety. He's gonna be fighting for a starting job. Right. Okay. You need our Mason Thomas to be a pass rusher impactful immediately. Peter woods, you need to be a pass rusher is impactful to be at the tackle immediately. Like there's just so many bets. And because the Chiefs are not explosive in the passing game anymore. Right. We've seen that now for a couple of years. Andy Reid just wants to be very screen oriented and very yak oriented. They lack that that Tyree kill at, you know, prime Travis Kelsey that's sort of vertical threat because they're not going to be explosive in the passing game anymore. You really need a good defense to be able to win that kind of incremental matriculating style that they had there in 2024. And so I am like, if you made me write down what I hope the Chiefs achieved in the pre, in the off season and then you made me see their seat there, what they actually did, I would be like, man, like I, this is not the way I would have gone about this. I would have been a lot more aggressive adding a receiver. You know, I would not have moved on from McDuffie just yet. Like this, this is not really the approach to, you know, quickly rebound the team. Am I going to back my doubt with a bet on the under for the Chiefs win total?

[Tony Ayo]

No.

[Ben Solak]

I'm not dumb. So, you know, I, I don't want to be fading Patrick Mahomes from a season long perspective. That seems very silly to me though. This is like the Chiefs are, are evidently trying to infuse the roster with youth and prepare for the second stage of the Mahomes era that might be this year. If they hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, and if there's a guy to trust to hit, hit, hit, especially on defense, it's bags. I just would like to see it before I start actually believing that they've turned the ship around that quickly.

[Simon Hunter]

Ben, you just said, let me just see if I can get Ben to come to the dark side. Chad, because I know Ben is like,

[Chad Millman]

he seems very impressionable. I think we can get at his

[Simon Hunter]

core, he's a nerd. We both love numbers, but at the end of the day, the most important number which I bang over people's heads non stop is wins. And I know the group that wins are not a QB stat. Yes, we know it's a team sport, but you will never show me a hall of fame quarterback that didn't win more than seven, eight games a year, two, three years in a row. It just, if you're a good quarterback, the talent level is so high in the NFL across every position you're going to win. I mean, that's just the way it is. You can always say, well, he's got a bad defense, okay, he's not going to win 13 games, but he's better win eight or nine games, right? It just bad, good quarterbacks tend to win in this league. That's my whole view with this Mahomes part, which I hope I can get you on board where it's just like you just said it. In what world, unless his knee gets blown out again, does this man not win 10 years. It just I, I need people to understand these guys are psychopaths. These high like Tom Brady. You've seen him not be able to be normal in the offseason now that he's out of football. He needs to be competitive. He needs to be doing something constantly. That's Mahomes same exact way. They're just wired that way. So I just, I just view them. I'm same way as Ben where it's like them starting one and three. That's a real possibility. This defense might be atrocious because they are so young. They're going to be getting insane looks and their division for the first time Mahomes career. It ain't his division. This is Bo Nick's division. Bo Nicks won this division last year.

[Ben Solak]

So disappointing.

[Simon Hunter]

I know he's never been in this position before though, so that's why it's like he's hearing idiots like me say those type of statements. How does Mahomes not just come out and just kill us all? I just. This is the exact moment we want to be back in a guy like this. So I, I am interested. Is this going to be the Mahomes low period we had with brady of like 8, 9 years of 10 win team, 11 win team but no play at success because the rest of the team is just trash. So I love this new era we're entering with the homes where it's like was that it was that the dynasty and now he just kind of is a mid level team or is this just one of these things where it's like oh, you're gonna doubt me when I have Andy reading spag still as running the show here. I just. It's all lined up. It feels like for this Chiefs team

[Ben Solak]

say you I present as nerd. If you really wanted to get me onto chief's wagon, you need to go for the true core of my being, which is that I want to be 6, 3, 300 pounds of playing gourd in the NFL. Because this is the, the thing about this Chiefs team that gets me there is that this is I think going to be the best line that moms had in a minute. Especially a tackle, right where if Josh Simmons is on the field and you know, kind of reliably with the team, which is obviously certainly a question mark. And then with Jaylen Moore flopping to the right, which is a difficult flip, but it's becoming easier and teams are getting better at doing it year over year. I mean I haven't felt good about Mahomes bookends certainly since they signed Juwan Taylor to that massive extension. And then even before then it was a little bit of an issue and he did so much to mitigate poor tackle play and pressure off the edges. Once you don't have to solve that problem as a quarterback, once you don't have that kind of screaming in the back of your head, you can just do a lot more. You can dedicate a lot more energy and resources in the pocket to creating big throws and so on and so forth. And so if you take me to the world where the Chiefs are much more impactful on offense than they've been the last couple of years because they've been so incremental and you ask me what is it that changed? It's this offensive line is I think now much more balanced, much better five across. And there's a chance that Mahomes life is just a lot easier from a pressure perspective.

[Chad Millman]

I want to get before, before we let Ben go, I want to get his take in a rapid fire on a couple of hot button issues. Ready?

[Ben Solak]

Hit me.

[Chad Millman]

I'm making up these questions as we go here. Jackson Dart, Cam, Scatterbo. So good. It doesn't matter. So dumb. It does matter.

[Ben Solak]

Definitely not the first one. I don't think Dart is that dumb yet. Scat, man. I mean, I don't know. The lights don't seem like they're on really Offseason.

[Chad Millman]

Yeah, he's pushing true idiocy.

[Ben Solak]

And the Giants, the Giants were in the free agent market for a running back that was reported and you know, they never got it done from a draft perspective either. But they very clearly, you know, Harbaughn the as the new kind of shot caller there was kicking the tires on running back options. So I don't, I'm not there like, you know, I think I'm 0% scatter boo and best ball right now. Dart. I still think like, you know, he's quarterback but he knows that there's a degree of professionalism you have to have

[Chad Millman]

Flip side of that Baltimore Ravens addition by subtraction by not having John Harbaugh there anymore.

[Ben Solak]

I still lean no, I still think Harbaugh's a really good coach. Brought a high level of professionalism to the building. I think there was a lot more Lamar conflict over the years with Greg Roman and Todd Monken than ever made it to the media until kind of the moment that Harbaugh left and you saw that I always with first year head coaches with young play callers, my Question is always when stuff starts to hit the fan, which will inevitably happen, how are you good at handling it? How well are you keeping the messaging in the building? Because the way that really good teams steamroll and bottom out is when the new young guys in the building don't have the experience to live through the ups and the downs. And so in general, I still lean, you know, harbor a really nice steady hand on the wheel. And I think that the Ravens who have, you know, don't have amazing veteran leadership in terms of, you know, team locker room are in a little bit of jeopardy of having like a massive drama filled season full of like, you know, barbs in the media. With that said, Jess Mitchell's really good coach. Declan Doyle is a really good coach. There's also a lot of, you know, nice high right tales here that you can talk me into.

[Chad Millman]

Give me the final order of finish in the most difficult division in football, the NFC North.

[Ben Solak]

Yeah, man. I mean, all I know is I'm on the Vikings at 5 to 1. So the bottom of the, of the, of the group. And if somebody else at the bottom of the group, I'd probably be on them. I think, you know, water gun to my head, I would put it Bears, Bears, Vikings lines. Packers.

[Tab Ramos]

Bears.

[Ben Solak]

Wow. I struggle the most with it. With the 2 to 3 there. I'm in a, I'm in a spot where I want to be fading the packers this year. I'm comfortable in that. Two new starters along the offensive line, you know, Romeo Dobbs out of the building. A lot of eggs right now in the basket of Christian Watson who gets banged up. Tucker Craft coming off a major injury. Josh Jacobs who was really not effective last year on the stats. And then defensively, man, with no Michael Parsons. Who do you like? I mean, I mean, you like Xavier McKinney and Evan Williams. And it's not a lot of needle moving players. So I know I'm a Packers fade and I know I'm a Vikings buy just in terms of preseason look, but I mean, yeah, everybody here has a good chance to win this division.

[Chad Millman]

I am Simon, I am shocked he went with the Bears in first place.

[Simon Hunter]

Yeah.

[Ben Solak]

This time next year we're going to be asking Caleb or Josh Allen.

[Simon Hunter]

Wow.

[Ben Solak]

Wow.

[Simon Hunter]

We were high. Too high on Caleb. Let's go Ben. But yeah, this is, this goes back to our point though, where you don't know what for sure would be. Where last year me and you were sitting here, Chad or saying the Bears, we love Ben Johnson. This is all here. What is he gonna Be like when hits the fan apparently pretty damn good. But I mean like he was better

[Chad Millman]

when hit the fan.

[Simon Hunter]

Yeah.

[Ben Solak]

When you, when you do reporting and you, you ask about like people in that building and the league around like what Ben did in year one in terms of how much better they got week over week, how like think about the pre snap operation issues they were having, how much that got ironed out. Think about Colston Loveland having a middle of the year one breakout at receiving tight end position that does not produce as a rookie when he was injured for all of training camp. You know, like that's a, that's preposterously difficult to pull off. Ben's midstream ability to kind of figure stuff out. It's right up there with Sean and Kyle, right? We're like, you know, Matt Jones goes in and Kyle's like, yeah, we're score 30 a game halfway through the season. Devonte gets hurt, the Rams are playing the Jags in London and Sean's like, yeah, okay, we're a 13 personnel team now. We're going to do it for the rest of the the season. Ben is right there. Like it deserves to have his name mentioned in the sentence with those guys. In terms of the ability to figure stuff out as the season goes.

[Chad Millman]

I mean Bears gonna be good.

[Ben Solak]

Defense might be awful, but they'll be fun to watch.

[Chad Millman]

I am all freaking in. I like what he just said about Caleb Williams and Josh Allen because that's a great transition. Ben Solak from espn. Thanks for coming on the show. Great, great work. Anyone who listens to the show knows I will be referencing Ben's stats, Ben's columns, they're fantastic during the season at espn. So check those out. This has been Sharper Square part of the Volume Podcast network. We're gonna have the next episode. We're off Thursday. Then we fire up every single Tuesday Thursday as we go through the NFL season. It's Our annual Top 10 Quarterbacks episode with Rich Rebar. It's always a joy to hear Simon mock me. So this has been Sharper Square, part of the Volume Podcast Network watcher. Listen on YouTube at Sharper Square like this video. Subscribe to the channel. Download some Spotify Apple pods wherever you get your pods. Rate, review, subscribe. Leave us five stars. Say whatever you want. Feedback is a gift. Till next time. Love you.

[Ben Solak]

I mean there's been a lot of guys that have done really well for two days in pajamas. I'm done with the hype of the pajama party in May. We'll find out in training camp who's who. It's going to be good across the board.

[Tab Ramos]

This is Tab Ramos from inside American Soccer and this summer topgolf is turning into the ultimate soccer destination. They've got a new soccer themed game you can play with your group, exclusive food and drink items. They've even installed full size soccer goals so you can try to hit golf balls right into the net. And every match all summer long will be on throughout the venue. And if you want to keep the fun going all summer, you can get the topgolf Summer Fun Pass which lets you play every single day and bring up to five guests every visit. Get yours [e-mail] FunPass this is Tony

[Tony Ayo]

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[Ben Solak]

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[Simon Hunter]

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[Ben Solak]

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[Tony Ayo]

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[Simon Hunter]

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[Ben Solak]

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[Ben Solak]

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[Chad Millman]

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[Ben Solak]

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[Simon Hunter]

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[Chad Millman]

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